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Welcome to The Crucible, Conversations for the Curious.

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I am Hamish, your host.

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This podcast is for anyone going through awakenings, trying to make sense of life.

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Whether dark nights are the soul, needing to make life -changing decisions, struggling
with addiction or critical illness, or simply realizing that their life as they know it is

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not aligned to values and purpose.

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You are not alone.

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You can get through this, promise you.

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Life is far more beautiful on the other side.

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Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Crucible conversations for the
curious.

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Today I'm chatting with Eleanor and she's got quite a story.

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Eleanor thank you very much for being here today.

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Can you tell me please about the demons inside of your head?

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Hi Hamish, thank you for having me.

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I really appreciate you giving me the time and space to discuss this.

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So yeah, so I've had a lot of intrusive thoughts over my lifespan.

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It started about around the age of seven when to have certain thoughts such as wanting to
stab your, well not wanting to, let me rephrase that.

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such as being scared of stabbing your parents in the night was not something that you
think as a child you'd have to deal with.

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So around the age of seven, every single night time, I used to be scared to go to bed
because of the fear of me stabbing my parents.

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And it took a long, long time for me to really understand what that was.

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I used to cry, I didn't used to want to go to bed and I couldn't tell my parents because
of course if you tell your parents that, I mean, what's gonna happen?

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So as a child I was thinking, well why am I having these thoughts, you know, and it was
strange because I knew they were separate from me.

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But I did identify by them.

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And I remember sitting underneath table and I said to my mom, I've got the demon inside my
head.

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And I, for some reason, associated this with eating cheese, like cheese biscuits, because
I stopped eating them and then they went and I was like, my gosh, they've gone.

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Like I was so excited because I was free from my mind.

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And then it sort of latched onto obsessive thoughts about crumbs on the car seat.

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And then it went into germs and being scared to touch people.

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and things like that.

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at this time I was diagnosed with ADHD, which this can also be misdiagnosed as OCD as
well.

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So it can work together or it can be separate and misdiagnosed, which I've read upon.

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So yeah, around that time I was diagnosed with ADHD and it was a really tough time from
what I can remember.

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So as time went on, I was

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going through the physical OCD, which was the excessive hand washing and not wanting to
touch anything.

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Which continued, it would get worse and better throughout life until I had children.

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So I didn't have the harm OCD thoughts, which is called Pure O, now I know.

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until I had children again.

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Again.

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Until I had children.

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So I had my first daughter and for any of those who have children understand like this a
very deep love.

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It's something that you really can't explain and I was so protective and obsessed about
keeping her protected that when the thoughts came back of I could just stab her or my gosh

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like

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I'm going to drop her over the side.

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We'd be in the shopping mall and I'd have this like really strong intrusive thought of
just dropping her over the side.

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And almost it came with that much anxiety and adrenaline, but it was like, almost felt as
though you could, even though you're so scared of it.

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So you just want, I just didn't want to leave the house.

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You know, I was just absolutely petrified of myself.

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This continued and I then had another, I had another child when there's about

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a year and three months between them, fairly close together.

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And I went on medication to try and help with these intrusive thoughts because at this
point I felt suicidal.

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I did not want to be around.

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It was to the point where I'd go to work and then I would try and avoid coming home
because I'd be scared that I would feel so fearful of harming my own children.

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And I think that

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One of these issues is on why people don't talk about this is because the amount of shame
held in having those thoughts and the fact that people don't realize it's not that I ever

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wanted to do anything.

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It was that I was so terribly fearful of doing something like that, that it felt like I
was out of control.

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Then the OCD and obsessiveness within me, if that's the word, obsessiveness within me.

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became so identified with those thoughts and so curious and obsessed by them and thinking
why am I thinking these things?

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But it's not me, it's not my mind.

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But it is my mind and it was just very, very confusing.

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So I took this medication, it made it worse.

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Some medication works for some and some doesn't.

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In this instance, it was certainly for me.

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It just didn't work with me, it made it worse.

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So I came off that and just tried to battle it myself.

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I brought myself a book on understanding cognitive behavioral therapy and obsession with
thoughts, which with the ADHD element of it, I just feel like I couldn't even tackle that

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book.

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You know, it just wasn't something that I could even touch or look at.

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It just became overwhelming.

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So.

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As time went on, I ended up having another child.

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These thoughts, they came and they would come and go.

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I would sing nursery rhymes in my head to try and escape from them, which is why it's
classed as pure O because there's not a physical compulsion to escape from the thoughts.

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It's all mental.

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So it will be things like playing a song in your head or trying to seek reassurance from
someone else or

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or obsessing by researching.

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So I used to research a lot on psychosis and psychopaths and murder stories.

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I was obsessed with crime because I was trying to reassure myself that I wasn't this bad
person.

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But there was nothing in my life that was showing me that I actually was.

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You know, there was no proof and evidence that I was this person that I thought I was.

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It was just all in my head.

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Yeah, so I'm just trying to remember now where I got up to.

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was like, whee!

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Like, where did I get up to?

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Yeah, so, yeah.

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So as time on, I then went on to have my third child.

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I mean, despite the thoughts, I still wanted a big family.

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It was that.

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I know what I want but my mind is like so scared of having that because of the struggle
and the suffering that I was going through.

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So I tried another medication called venlaflaxine which did help but when coming off it,
wasn't very nice, it wasn't very helpful.

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It didn't have great withdrawal symptoms for me personally.

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So after I had my children, I've now got five and I don't have any of these intrusive
thoughts anymore.

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And this is because I spent a lot of time knowing who I am.

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And I think that when we have these thoughts, take, and especially if you're quite
obsessive, you identify with them.

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So I thought it was me.

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I honestly thought, my gosh, like, and even now, if I tell someone about it, I've had
people say, you need to seek God.

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Like, that is weird.

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Like I've never had anything like that.

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And that's okay.

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But the people that have had this

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had these thoughts, I think it's important to recognise that it's not you, your mind is
not you.

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And that to disidentify from the mind is freedom.

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And to be able to make choice about what you feed your mind as well.

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Like, you you'll get these random thoughts that come and go, but what are you
intentionally telling yourself?

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Are you correcting your mind and or are you laughing at it?

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Because I went through a phase of

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actually just laughing at the thoughts.

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And then it's almost strange because it's like, your thoughts are separate from you.

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And I think that's where the of the spiritual awakening came in, because I realized, okay,
if I'm not my mind, and my mind's almost separate, but I'm like a conscious, this

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conscious entity, observing it, then what actually am I?

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You know, I think, you know, we're all bigger than actually we think we are.

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So I spent a lot of time journaling, really connecting deeply with myself and
understanding vibrational frequencies and how to use that to manifest abundance.

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But in terms of actually being able to transcend this struggle, it was really making note
of who I am.

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And yeah, within the struggle of intrusive thoughts, it is a case of you lose your whole
identity and start to identify with what it is that your mind tells you.

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Yeah, you go.

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That is, that is, that is fascinating.

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mean, it's, it's horrifying.

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I can relate occasionally when I get crossed with someone, I wish you were dead.

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But I don't think that's the same.

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swear that I'm probably not the same.

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But that's, it's like, I don't mean that.

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But I guess that's, I don't know.

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that's

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Well, it is and it isn't, but see, that's triggering in itself because when you have the
OCD puro thoughts and you're scared of them and then you get mad and you have a similar

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thought and it's like, actually, I really could just punch you in the face.

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It's like, well, how do you differentiate between the two?

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And yeah, it is slightly different, but yeah, it is also relatable.

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So I appreciate you sharing.

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Can you you know, you said as a child, you said there's demons in your head.

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How did how was that received by your family?

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What did they try and make of that?

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Nothing really.

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There was just, I mean, I don't ever remember any attempt to understand what that was.

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I mean, I was a very troubled teenager and I think sometimes we don't spend enough time
with our children to really understand and feel into what it is that's going on inside

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their mind.

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So yeah, didn't have any of, don't think I had any of that support.

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I was really alone.

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And I think that's why as an adult, then you think, okay, my safe space used to be sitting
in dark corners, like I would when I was a child, because that was where, I mean, I

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couldn't escape my mind, but it felt the safest place, Yeah.

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Which is sad really.

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Because I think a lot of people, a lot of children, must go through it.

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But I always say to my children, like, there's no thought, no dream, anything that will
scare me.

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Like, I'm here to protect you.

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And I think they need to hear that.

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I'm, I'm really curious though.

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So how, how did you sort of work out that this was not chatter, is it this noise, you
know, I could just stab my parents.

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How did you manage to work out that it was, it was not you?

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Cause that's

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I would have thought that would be quite tough.

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As a child, yeah, because you don't really understand the world in any other way of like
that single perception.

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I suppose apart from empathy when we can feel other people's emotions, et cetera, but
really it was the fact that I knew that I didn't want to.

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I could feel that, you know, the fear of almost feeling like you're pressured to do
something you don't want to do.

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And that didn't sit right in me.

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If I know that I don't want to do something, then why is my mind telling me that I could
or I should?

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So yeah, think that was the big thing.

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The biggest part of the intrusive thought, in fact, is that differentiation between the
two.

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Because of course there is mental disorders where it may be a slightly different mixture
of things.

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But for me personally,

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Yeah, it was very debilitating.

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So you were able to trust your heart rather than your head.

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You trusting your feelings.

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Yes, but you can't, when you try and escape your mind, the more it pulls you back in.

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As a child you don't know how to, unless you're taught it's hard to understand how to
ground yourself back into your body.

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I think that's, yeah, I said it, just horrifying.

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it leads onto so many things.

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I mean, what you said about, you you are not your thoughts.

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know, that ability to realize that you're not, they're just stuff going through, your
emotions are just stuff going through.

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How did you manage to refine that?

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you you had that as a...

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a break for the noise, a break for that ideation or as you said, those unwelcome thoughts.

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I think it's having a structure.

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So it's what is it that you want to feel?

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Who are you?

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What are you affirming to yourself?

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Because I mean, within all the spiritual type, all these sort of spiritual chit chat and
things like that, if we think about it from a perspective of we can manifest anything that

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we want and everything that you think about, you can bring it into reality.

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You are what you think about, you are what you talk.

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To a person that's having these intrusive thoughts, that is so scary.

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It almost would be like, my gosh, that means that it's gonna happen.

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hell am I going to do?

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You've got even...

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Yeah.

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and your body?

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And that is the difference between the two.

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You know, so if your mind is not aligned with everything else, your mind doesn't mean
anything.

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And that's the whole point when it comes to visualization and manifesting things, why it's
so important to feel it within so deeply and in meditation and you can just feel it in

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every cell because without that,

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It's just pure thought, you know, I think there's more, there's a lot of importance given
to thoughts than there should be.

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But also it is also important.

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I think it's, is it thoughts though, or is it imagination?

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Now that's a good question, isn't it?

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I think we can look at that in more detail because, you know...

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is it imagination that's the manifester?

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Because that's beautiful, you know, really, most of the time.

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I like that.

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I really like that.

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That feels lovely because that is you, know, as kids we're taught, we're encouraged to use
our imagination.

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You get to adulthood, you know, a piece of paper, do this, do that imagination.

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It's not welcome.

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But when we use it, that's where the magic is, isn't it?

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I like that.

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Well, that is the essence of visualization though, isn't it?

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You know, are imagining, you're not thinking, you're imagining.

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what you want, imagining going up the steps, doing a walk somewhere beautiful, you're
imagining what you want to create.

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You're creating it in your mind, in your imagination.

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So I think that when you've got these thoughts and it pulls you back in, so it's like,
I've not had them today.

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And you almost go digging for them because you're addicted to the emotion that the thought
gives you.

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So.

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It's like, hang on, your body just doesn't feel right without that level of anxiety.

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So you can't even sit in peace and bliss because you're still trying to search for the
problem.

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So it's really getting to that point of saying, I'm ready.

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I'm ready to let go of everything that this made me out to be.

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This invisible entity within my mind is not me.

213
00:18:00,319 --> 00:18:11,188
and to start to peel away everything that it's made you become and to start to really
understand that your core of who you truly are because when you've got that solidity in

214
00:18:11,229 --> 00:18:22,378
your identity it's unshakable especially when you've been through that because it's yeah
debilitating absolutely I don't want everybody else to know that too you know because

215
00:18:22,378 --> 00:18:25,401
everybody's precious in every single way so

216
00:18:27,774 --> 00:18:31,816
think what you've articulated there is spot on.

217
00:18:31,996 --> 00:18:39,981
It's dangerous to identify as a plumber, as a mum, as a dad, as a this, as a that,
especially as things change.

218
00:18:39,981 --> 00:18:46,034
if you actually, as you got that chatter the whole time saying that, maybe it's a lesson.

219
00:18:46,034 --> 00:18:50,366
It is a demon saying, hey, time for you not to identify with my noise.

220
00:18:50,586 --> 00:18:57,668
Become that authentic person because what you're saying is really profound.

221
00:18:57,668 --> 00:19:03,361
and really important, not just for these intrusive thoughts, but for life in general.

222
00:19:04,002 --> 00:19:14,217
And I think it's fascinating, it's a horrifying way to have to learn a lesson, but I think
it's fascinating that you've managed to make sense of it and you're happy to share it

223
00:19:14,217 --> 00:19:18,330
because yeah, it does seem, you know, I want to kill my mummy.

224
00:19:18,330 --> 00:19:19,374
I think I want to.

225
00:19:19,374 --> 00:19:19,965
what on earth?

226
00:19:19,965 --> 00:19:28,067
You tell someone to that, they'd be like, okay, can we just get this person some help and
think that it's something to be scared from?

227
00:19:29,088 --> 00:19:32,039
But actually in those moments, it's really listening.

228
00:19:32,039 --> 00:19:34,260
I told my friend about it once.

229
00:19:34,260 --> 00:19:40,823
It was just a random topic because I'll speak about it like it's a standard topic because
it should be.

230
00:19:40,823 --> 00:19:47,395
I mean, how can we support each other if we can't be honest with each other, you know?

231
00:19:47,417 --> 00:19:53,812
So I told her and she was like, my gosh, I have been trapped in the same thoughts.

232
00:19:53,812 --> 00:19:55,344
I don't even want to touch knives.

233
00:19:55,344 --> 00:19:56,555
I can't even talk.

234
00:19:56,555 --> 00:20:00,778
I can't even have knives near me because it scares me so much.

235
00:20:00,778 --> 00:20:02,839
And I'm like, yeah, okay.

236
00:20:02,860 --> 00:20:04,881
You have to hide away the knives.

237
00:20:05,622 --> 00:20:15,060
Another thing that really helped actually, I probably should have written a list of other
things, but was they being able to be around things that make you feel uncomfortable.

238
00:20:15,060 --> 00:20:15,710
So.

239
00:20:16,184 --> 00:20:21,816
If you're having a thought, an intrusive thought and you're scared of knives, because
that's ultimately what it is.

240
00:20:21,816 --> 00:20:30,470
I was fearful of stabbing my parents, so anything that was knife related would trigger it
even worse.

241
00:20:30,470 --> 00:20:33,611
So I couldn't look at them.

242
00:20:33,611 --> 00:20:45,035
So if you were to be in that space, you sit with a knife right in front of you, you
breathe into it, and it's called exposure and response prevention.

243
00:20:45,035 --> 00:20:51,007
I think, don't hold me to it, but when I did some CBT.

244
00:20:51,007 --> 00:21:01,880
So being able to be in the presence and breathe into it and release their anxiety on a
repetitive basis now means I have no problems, absolutely no problems with knives.

245
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:06,121
There's not one thought that even comes through my mind because it just isn't necessary
anymore.

246
00:21:06,581 --> 00:21:09,352
And I'm not in survival anymore.

247
00:21:09,352 --> 00:21:12,262
yeah, so she, so she related and

248
00:21:14,447 --> 00:21:25,925
The fact that I was able to help her just by understanding her and listening means that
she's now doesn't live in that fear anymore.

249
00:21:26,165 --> 00:21:35,792
Just having that conversation can literally release people from that trap.

250
00:21:35,792 --> 00:21:42,456
And it has nothing to do with reassurance or anything that perpetuates the cycle of

251
00:21:42,617 --> 00:21:52,766
of puro or OCD and it has everything to do with the fact that it's almost like someone
saying you don't need to be fearful of your mind anymore.

252
00:21:53,247 --> 00:21:59,012
And it's like, I don't know, I don't know, it's a chemical energy thing that happens.

253
00:21:59,413 --> 00:22:02,026
But yeah, it's really helped her.

254
00:22:02,026 --> 00:22:05,310
So I think it just shows the power in understanding each other.

255
00:22:05,310 --> 00:22:06,020
Absolutely.

256
00:22:06,020 --> 00:22:06,861
is, isn't it?

257
00:22:06,861 --> 00:22:14,154
It's that power of communication and, you know, asking for help and that's when the magic
happens.

258
00:22:14,154 --> 00:22:19,816
And, you know, the shame thing, I had a lot of shame with the drinking.

259
00:22:19,816 --> 00:22:23,058
And, you know, when you talk about it, it disappears.

260
00:22:23,058 --> 00:22:25,280
It is like throwing windows open.

261
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:29,242
Yeah, I'm still wrapping my head around that and it's...

262
00:22:29,410 --> 00:22:35,877
You said you've had to put those structures into, it's almost like if this, then that, if
this, then that, isn't it?

263
00:22:35,877 --> 00:22:40,873
You've almost got to hold some steps to sort of work, well, I mean, that's the basis of
CBT, isn't it?

264
00:22:40,873 --> 00:22:45,708
It is cause and effect, find steps to work through things.

265
00:22:45,865 --> 00:22:51,699
I mean, if I go through sort of a few of the things that in fact, I'll go through all of
the things that help me.

266
00:22:51,699 --> 00:23:01,935
So I have already discussed about the disidentification with the mind and being able to
know who you are is really crucial to be able to move forward in the most healthy and

267
00:23:01,935 --> 00:23:02,635
effective way.

268
00:23:02,635 --> 00:23:03,305
CBT.

269
00:23:03,726 --> 00:23:04,506
So

270
00:23:06,275 --> 00:23:10,557
Even though I've done a lot of research when I actually attended CBT, I waited two years.

271
00:23:10,557 --> 00:23:16,361
By the time I went to CBT, I sort of knew all of what she was teaching me.

272
00:23:16,361 --> 00:23:19,442
But it's easy to read things and not practice it.

273
00:23:19,442 --> 00:23:22,104
It's easy to watch things and not practice it.

274
00:23:22,104 --> 00:23:30,549
So it is typical, isn't it really, that we don't often practice what is healthy for us.

275
00:23:30,549 --> 00:23:34,842
So the moment that I actually started to breathe in and just...

276
00:23:34,842 --> 00:23:36,583
You're not needed anymore.

277
00:23:36,864 --> 00:23:38,765
This thought is not needed anymore.

278
00:23:38,765 --> 00:23:40,546
I know who I am.

279
00:23:41,467 --> 00:23:44,029
You know, it's a...

280
00:23:44,490 --> 00:23:56,279
So really the CBT is the passing of the thought without sort of needing to latch onto that
and it's allowing it to move freely through your mind.

281
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:04,075
But when these thoughts make you feel like an immediate sense of panic,

282
00:24:04,427 --> 00:24:13,604
and survival and letting them go is really, really hard, which is why weather breathing
techniques come in really helpful.

283
00:24:14,385 --> 00:24:26,645
And of course, the other thing I mentioned as well was about the exposure to what it is
that you're most fearful of and realizing even though there may be, it's all based on

284
00:24:26,645 --> 00:24:33,784
choice, these types of thoughts, but whereas for physical OBD, it's like, for me
sometimes,

285
00:24:33,784 --> 00:24:36,936
If it's the trigger of germs, I can see the germs.

286
00:24:36,936 --> 00:24:40,628
Then I can't see the germs, but I can see the germs, you know?

287
00:24:40,628 --> 00:24:44,580
Like I'm scared of that even though can't see it.

288
00:24:44,620 --> 00:24:48,622
So yeah, I mean, it's all a process with that.

289
00:24:48,622 --> 00:24:52,146
I'm just trying to think if there's anything else that would be valuable.

290
00:24:52,146 --> 00:24:55,299
because they are definitely the most crucial parts.

291
00:24:55,299 --> 00:25:01,234
mean, there's lots of different things that happens which might help.

292
00:25:01,234 --> 00:25:14,207
So like when I mentioned about the obsession with research, so that was one thing that
really perpetuated that cycle further and made it worse.

293
00:25:14,207 --> 00:25:17,971
It was me reaching out to my mom or my friends and being like,

294
00:25:17,971 --> 00:25:19,973
do you think I've got this wrong with me?

295
00:25:19,973 --> 00:25:27,579
Or do you think like, I wouldn't say it directly because I couldn't, I didn't feel like I
could, but it's like, I think I'm a psychopath, you know?

296
00:25:27,579 --> 00:25:30,101
Or like just think, just these things, you know?

297
00:25:30,101 --> 00:25:38,657
And, and then once I've got that reassurance, it's like, okay, fine, okay, I'm okay until
the next time.

298
00:25:38,657 --> 00:25:45,022
So these things aren't helpful because the moment that you ground yourself in you know who
you are, you don't have to seek that anymore.

299
00:25:45,903 --> 00:25:47,644
So yeah.

300
00:25:47,677 --> 00:25:48,403
you

301
00:25:49,624 --> 00:25:51,547
I think you've nailed an awful lot there.

302
00:25:51,547 --> 00:25:59,708
And the scary thing is that being addicted to your thoughts, being addicted to that
anxiety, because you're familiar to it, aren't you?

303
00:25:59,708 --> 00:26:00,309
You know it.

304
00:26:00,309 --> 00:26:05,844
You know it's not safe, but you know how to interact within that little space.

305
00:26:06,206 --> 00:26:13,410
But isn't it strange how anxiety, you think it keeps you safe.

306
00:26:13,410 --> 00:26:18,752
So you want to stay there because in that moment, you're in so much survival.

307
00:26:19,053 --> 00:26:22,865
If you're a fighter or a flighter, it's a way of escaping.

308
00:26:22,865 --> 00:26:31,169
So it's like, if you don't have that, you think automatically that you're going to act on
things in the wrong way.

309
00:26:31,169 --> 00:26:34,761
Like if I don't feel fearful of what I'm thinking,

310
00:26:34,855 --> 00:26:37,247
then that means that I want to do it.

311
00:26:38,109 --> 00:26:40,222
That was the other cycle of thought.

312
00:26:40,222 --> 00:26:45,609
So anxiety was almost a way of being able to know I don't want that to happen.

313
00:26:45,609 --> 00:26:50,246
So it's a mad cycle.

314
00:26:50,246 --> 00:26:53,000
mean, yeah, it really is.

315
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:53,970
It really is, isn't it?

316
00:26:53,970 --> 00:27:03,238
You've got damned if you do, damned if you don't, and then maybe you're damned anyway, and
all you said you've to do, you've just got to disidentify with it.

317
00:27:03,258 --> 00:27:05,080
How do you do that?

318
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,492
Because that obviously is the crust.

319
00:27:07,492 --> 00:27:08,863
That is the crux, isn't it?

320
00:27:08,863 --> 00:27:13,486
So let's dive into that a little bit more, because I think that is quite important.

321
00:27:14,317 --> 00:27:16,479
So, disidentifying with it.

322
00:27:16,479 --> 00:27:26,586
I mean, to be honest, it's sort of covering what I've already mentioned about, one,
knowing who you are, and then, two, knowing that you're not your mind.

323
00:27:26,586 --> 00:27:33,130
I mean, if you know both of those things, then you're on the way to disidentifying with
it.

324
00:27:33,130 --> 00:27:38,994
Being the observer of the mind, it can become a lot easier with meditation.

325
00:27:38,994 --> 00:27:40,676
Meditation is not a quick fix.

326
00:27:40,676 --> 00:27:41,706
It's a...

327
00:27:41,886 --> 00:27:50,821
It's a disciplined, continual, it's okay on days where you feel tired and you don't want
to do it, on the days where you fall asleep in the meditation, you still do it the next

328
00:27:50,821 --> 00:27:51,631
day, you know?

329
00:27:51,631 --> 00:28:05,349
And then eventually you can slow down and just listen to it from a consciousness rather
than an identification.

330
00:28:05,649 --> 00:28:08,361
It's like you want me but I can hear you.

331
00:28:08,361 --> 00:28:09,011
So.

332
00:28:10,934 --> 00:28:17,857
But it's something that really has to be experienced to be able to understand that.

333
00:28:17,857 --> 00:28:21,818
So it's taken those first steps to...

334
00:28:21,818 --> 00:28:25,920
And I think a lot of us don't know who we are as well.

335
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:35,384
We're just really a product of our society and environment and what people tell us and
traumas.

336
00:28:35,384 --> 00:28:36,926
So it's really...

337
00:28:36,926 --> 00:28:37,966
It's deep.

338
00:28:39,264 --> 00:28:44,813
It's really remembering who we are, which often comes in childhood.

339
00:28:44,813 --> 00:28:50,079
How do you find out who you are?

340
00:28:50,079 --> 00:28:52,441
What's the quick way to find out who you are?

341
00:28:54,911 --> 00:29:02,959
Well, is there, probably stop listening to everybody else, spend time alone.

342
00:29:02,959 --> 00:29:04,660
And that's not loneliness.

343
00:29:04,660 --> 00:29:11,694
There's loneliness and it's like, need someone because you feel like you need support and
then there's alone.

344
00:29:11,694 --> 00:29:12,784
I love my own time.

345
00:29:12,784 --> 00:29:14,485
I love my own space.

346
00:29:14,545 --> 00:29:20,968
And people that don't really know who they are struggle to know what to do in alone time.

347
00:29:21,029 --> 00:29:23,270
But whereas I found I was that person.

348
00:29:23,270 --> 00:29:23,710
It's okay.

349
00:29:23,710 --> 00:29:24,751
Okay, I'm in silence.

350
00:29:24,751 --> 00:29:25,972
What do I do now?

351
00:29:25,972 --> 00:29:28,593
There's nothing to do.

352
00:29:28,593 --> 00:29:32,005
But actually, when I understood myself, I love art.

353
00:29:32,005 --> 00:29:32,577
I learned to

354
00:29:32,577 --> 00:29:33,858
play the guitar.

355
00:29:33,858 --> 00:29:37,110
ADHD didn't stick to the guitar for long.

356
00:29:37,110 --> 00:29:40,682
I mean, I do still have it, but it's the fun of it.

357
00:29:40,682 --> 00:29:44,624
It's the playfulness of being childlike.

358
00:29:44,965 --> 00:29:50,108
That's why I always go back to childhood because I think I always used to love doing that
stuff as a kid.

359
00:29:50,108 --> 00:29:59,724
And when you get to an adult, it's all bills and having to, you know, just like society
and the way the world is and things like that.

360
00:29:59,724 --> 00:30:02,556
So being able to disconnect is good.

361
00:30:02,944 --> 00:30:04,849
So I would say that.

362
00:30:05,788 --> 00:30:17,380
I think you've really nailed it because that was one of the reasons I was drinking because
society's expectations, society's demands, family expectations, ancestral expectations,

363
00:30:17,380 --> 00:30:23,015
know, do this, be a good boy, be a good son, don't do this, do that, don't do that.

364
00:30:23,015 --> 00:30:29,220
You know, we get, as you said, we get piled up by all this stuff and it's not making us
authentic.

365
00:30:29,340 --> 00:30:31,313
yeah, to find yourself.

366
00:30:31,313 --> 00:30:35,062
alcohol, it's a way of escaping the situation, isn't it?

367
00:30:36,043 --> 00:30:37,864
That's exactly what it was for that.

368
00:30:37,864 --> 00:30:42,167
That was spitting it apart, can't say the word.

369
00:30:42,668 --> 00:30:49,924
Whereas I had to bring those two pieces together to find out who I was, to say I don't
want that part of society.

370
00:30:49,924 --> 00:30:51,075
I don't want that part.

371
00:30:51,075 --> 00:30:56,719
So I had to find myself, because I lost myself not with voices, I lost it with the
alcohol.

372
00:30:57,981 --> 00:31:05,106
But the outcome is, you you have had to find a way to find out who you are.

373
00:31:05,608 --> 00:31:08,703
so you could then go not interested.

374
00:31:08,703 --> 00:31:12,428
And I've had to do the same in my way for my thing.

375
00:31:12,428 --> 00:31:14,322
So I think it is, isn't it?

376
00:31:14,322 --> 00:31:18,928
is to just start trusting yourself and believing in yourself and loving yourself.

377
00:31:18,928 --> 00:31:20,375
You said that earlier as well.

378
00:31:20,375 --> 00:31:36,935
Yeah, I mean, I suppose the thing is as well is that, I mean, in between all of these
things is that however the shame and the thoughts make you feel, has a direct impact on

379
00:31:36,935 --> 00:31:38,515
your beliefs about yourself.

380
00:31:38,515 --> 00:31:49,275
So this, didn't really discover all of this until, I mean, years after, I mean, you're
talking probably 15 years after the first sort of episode.

381
00:31:50,583 --> 00:31:58,725
And in between those times I was caught up with people that weren't good for me on plenty
of occasions.

382
00:31:58,725 --> 00:32:01,116
I didn't take much seriously.

383
00:32:01,116 --> 00:32:01,946
was very much...

384
00:32:01,946 --> 00:32:07,070
I had a lot of low self -esteem because I didn't feel like I was worthy.

385
00:32:07,070 --> 00:32:16,982
So, you you unpeel another layer of like, okay, this shame that these thoughts have given
me is like, made me feel like I'm not worthy of goodness.

386
00:32:17,606 --> 00:32:29,396
you know, because why should I have all of these nice things if, or be having fun or have
nice friends if I'm this person that I feel like it made me to be?

387
00:32:29,998 --> 00:32:36,423
So it's not just a simple linear journey.

388
00:32:37,324 --> 00:32:40,026
It's all of the rest outside of that as well.

389
00:32:40,427 --> 00:32:43,601
So, but it's nice to start somewhere.

390
00:32:43,601 --> 00:32:46,023
You have to start somewhere, don't you?

391
00:32:46,444 --> 00:32:58,405
yeah, think what I'm also hearing is you have to learn to be really gentle with yourself
and not judge yourself for those thoughts, not judge yourself for those...

392
00:32:58,405 --> 00:33:04,010
Because you said that they're not you, but they're just sort of, well, in here somewhere
or whatever.

393
00:33:04,180 --> 00:33:13,575
Yeah, and I think as well it's interesting because I think a lot of it's about how you're
parented because your inner parent will be the voice that you speak to yourself in

394
00:33:13,575 --> 00:33:15,056
oftentimes.

395
00:33:15,256 --> 00:33:20,679
So it's how does that sound?

396
00:33:20,679 --> 00:33:25,342
I just think it's very important that we treat ourselves gently and kindly.

397
00:33:25,482 --> 00:33:32,639
And I think there's some things where we can be our inner motivator and be like, come on,
we can do this, you know?

398
00:33:32,639 --> 00:33:34,930
But then there's sometimes it's like, it's okay.

399
00:33:34,930 --> 00:33:37,210
Like it's okay to hug yourself.

400
00:33:37,231 --> 00:33:42,323
It's okay to just give yourself that time in any situation.

401
00:33:42,323 --> 00:33:51,786
Don't ever feel pressured by anybody outside society and anything, you know, especially
when you're overcoming things like this, because it really does mess up your nervous

402
00:33:51,786 --> 00:33:54,398
system, you know, a lot.

403
00:33:54,398 --> 00:33:56,062
I can talk for days.

404
00:33:56,729 --> 00:33:59,892
I know, I'm thinking it's absolutely fascinating.

405
00:33:59,892 --> 00:34:04,025
There's so many parallels from other conversations I've had with other people about other
things.

406
00:34:04,806 --> 00:34:14,675
So we've got someone listening to us, for example, and they're having this and they've met
it and they don't know what to do and they have listened to you and you've said, know

407
00:34:14,675 --> 00:34:16,296
yourself and do this and do this.

408
00:34:16,296 --> 00:34:19,920
And obviously it's not that quick.

409
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,963
What sort of things can you say to people to say, right, how to...

410
00:34:24,859 --> 00:34:33,470
how to start trusting yourself, how to start beginning to know yourself, how to
disidentify from it, because I think those are the key things, aren't they, where you can

411
00:34:33,470 --> 00:34:34,731
start going from.

412
00:34:34,946 --> 00:34:51,000
Hmm, so I mean it really does depend on the type of person so like if So for me I can only
really speak for myself from from what I've figured out Which is that?

413
00:34:51,000 --> 00:35:01,683
Okay, rather than choosing something that I know isn't gonna benefit me such as Going out
for a drink with my friends, which I do a lot.

414
00:35:01,683 --> 00:35:04,003
I don't but just an example

415
00:35:04,009 --> 00:35:20,464
at the time, I'm going to choose to stay at home today and I'm going to choose to write
down the thoughts that I've had that have bothered me today and then I'm going to decide

416
00:35:20,464 --> 00:35:25,166
that I'm going to write down who I am.

417
00:35:25,186 --> 00:35:28,278
Is there any evidence of anything?

418
00:35:28,278 --> 00:35:32,109
that would suggest that that's who I am.

419
00:35:32,689 --> 00:35:42,232
I think then dealing with it first of all from a logical perspective and start writing
things down.

420
00:35:42,812 --> 00:35:53,195
Maybe if you don't like to deal with things in a way of writing down or just can't really,
that's not for you.

421
00:35:53,355 --> 00:35:56,656
There are of course ways where it's a case of just.

422
00:35:57,580 --> 00:36:03,785
sort of, I suppose, thinking about it in your mind rather than putting it on paper.

423
00:36:03,785 --> 00:36:08,238
Paper's always sort of worked for me, but it's taken me some time to get there.

424
00:36:08,238 --> 00:36:13,183
Yeah, I'd say that's a good start point.

425
00:36:13,183 --> 00:36:14,515
That makes a lot of sense, it?

426
00:36:14,515 --> 00:36:17,758
Because you are, I mean, I like the idea of writing it down.

427
00:36:17,758 --> 00:36:22,824
I write a lot and I think that's good because, I thought this, I thought that, I thought
this.

428
00:36:22,824 --> 00:36:23,965
Is it true?

429
00:36:23,965 --> 00:36:25,187
Yes, no.

430
00:36:25,187 --> 00:36:25,997
Who am I?

431
00:36:25,997 --> 00:36:29,290
You're seeing it.

432
00:36:29,290 --> 00:36:30,733
You're not just thinking about it.

433
00:36:30,733 --> 00:36:31,404
You're seeing it.

434
00:36:31,404 --> 00:36:34,481
I guess you could record it as well, couldn't you, if you weren't into it?

435
00:36:34,481 --> 00:36:37,113
yeah, a voice note type thing.

436
00:36:38,065 --> 00:36:44,308
And by doing that, you're separating yourself from it, you?

437
00:36:44,308 --> 00:36:47,460
As you said earlier, you'll be in the observer, you're looking down at it.

438
00:36:47,460 --> 00:36:48,670
And I guess that's the key, isn't it?

439
00:36:48,670 --> 00:36:59,635
Just to observe yourself, because I mean, you've mentioned that so many times in this
conversation, observe, observe, which means slowing down and as you said, meditating and

440
00:36:59,816 --> 00:37:02,237
breathing and slowing down.

441
00:37:02,728 --> 00:37:15,709
I mean there's other things as well, so I do poetry, I'll write a lot, so also dancing,
movement, there's a lot of emotions that come up, so I mean it's not even just with

442
00:37:15,709 --> 00:37:26,398
obsessive thoughts, it's just life in general, so dancing for me when I'm upset is a
massive thing that's helped, and I know that it's tricky when there's some people around,

443
00:37:26,398 --> 00:37:29,601
it depends how much you care about who sees and who doesn't.

444
00:37:30,384 --> 00:37:32,112
Dance like no one's listening,

445
00:37:32,112 --> 00:37:34,333
Absolutely, absolutely.

446
00:37:34,554 --> 00:37:36,585
But yeah, poetry has really been helpful.

447
00:37:36,585 --> 00:37:47,441
find that in sadness, I can go into flow and it just all sort of just and then you can
observe then once you're in a better place, you can then look back at that and see, okay,

448
00:37:47,622 --> 00:37:53,966
I can see here that I feel like I'm alone in this situation.

449
00:37:53,966 --> 00:37:56,348
How can I make myself feel better?

450
00:37:56,348 --> 00:38:00,790
What can I give myself that means that I don't need to feel that way anymore?

451
00:38:01,171 --> 00:38:02,071
So

452
00:38:02,823 --> 00:38:15,153
I mean that's just another thing as well because when going through this process there's
other things that come up other emotions that we haven't dealt with so it can be helpful

453
00:38:15,594 --> 00:38:20,697
and a cup of tea for me yes

454
00:38:22,039 --> 00:38:22,799
I like that.

455
00:38:22,799 --> 00:38:26,171
it's, it's, you're also reconnecting to your body, aren't you?

456
00:38:26,171 --> 00:38:33,986
Because I'm really, I'm really sensing there is, there has been a massive disconnect
somewhere and you're, you're reconnecting.

457
00:38:33,986 --> 00:38:45,292
mean, I'm doing the same thing in my, in my process as I, as I work through life, but
reconnecting to feel, you said you, you dance, you're having that, that somatic movement

458
00:38:45,292 --> 00:38:47,453
rather than just being all in your head.

459
00:38:47,743 --> 00:38:51,165
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

460
00:38:51,165 --> 00:38:58,439
mean, there is so many topics that we could discuss on this thing.

461
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:10,247
But yeah, mean, lot of yoga as well really helps to understand the breath and just feel
the ground beneath my body and taking it slow.

462
00:39:10,247 --> 00:39:17,882
was always very used to like these really hardcore workouts and I used to take out anger
and stuff, trap.

463
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:29,366
emotion by doing these hard workouts and then when the doctors are like you need to slow
down you know you need to slow down i'm like no you know but yeah when when we we got

464
00:39:29,366 --> 00:39:46,826
through that but now it's yeah it's just a case of okay slow down listen you know nature
it's just been open really to anything that helps you become more at peace and

465
00:39:46,826 --> 00:39:50,129
Social media doesn't help with that, you know.

466
00:39:50,129 --> 00:39:54,562
That's another topic.

467
00:39:54,763 --> 00:40:01,528
So limiting the social media and scrolling, because again, it's another addictive form of
escapism.

468
00:40:02,269 --> 00:40:08,614
And as much as it doesn't seem so harmful, there's other methods that we might choose.

469
00:40:08,995 --> 00:40:11,377
Yeah, social media as well.

470
00:40:11,377 --> 00:40:15,119
It's an overall wellness perspective.

471
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,274
spiritual, mental, physical perspective.

472
00:40:18,274 --> 00:40:22,039
But yeah, it's just step by step really.

473
00:40:22,039 --> 00:40:24,110
I think that is fabulous.

474
00:40:24,110 --> 00:40:32,342
I don't think there's not, I mean, are there any more sort of tricks or simple tips to
catch it?

475
00:40:32,342 --> 00:40:34,203
So let's go back to that.

476
00:40:34,203 --> 00:40:42,806
What can you do to interrupt, you know, just to sort of to catch that thought and just be
able to disidentify it?

477
00:40:42,806 --> 00:40:47,527
What sort of tricks are there to catch it, that kind of thing?

478
00:40:47,753 --> 00:40:57,087
Yeah, I think it depends where you're at in terms of how you feel about the thoughts that
come up.

479
00:40:57,267 --> 00:41:05,930
But I mean, at one point I used to laugh and just be like, we know that we don't feel that
way.

480
00:41:06,711 --> 00:41:11,193
And it sounds a little bit crazy, but actually I am crazy.

481
00:41:11,193 --> 00:41:13,404
So yeah, okay, we'll go with that.

482
00:41:13,404 --> 00:41:15,034
yeah, I mean.

483
00:41:17,067 --> 00:41:21,447
I would just laugh and just think, okay, here we are again, you know?

484
00:41:21,447 --> 00:41:34,607
And just anything that, I mean, what we're not trying to do is prevent, because the
moments that I would try and prevent it is like, okay, it will come back 20 times stronger

485
00:41:34,607 --> 00:41:37,027
with a load of other intrusive thoughts.

486
00:41:37,027 --> 00:41:39,487
yeah, it's never about really preventing it.

487
00:41:39,487 --> 00:41:44,087
It's always about accepting them coming through and being like,

488
00:41:45,891 --> 00:41:55,880
And then the moment that you try and sort of reach for that emotion again, that emotional
buzz, it's like the anxiety, it's like, take a breath.

489
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:57,631
We don't need to feel that.

490
00:41:58,592 --> 00:42:00,133
We just need peace.

491
00:42:02,435 --> 00:42:07,459
So yeah, it's just sort of having a bit of a reality check of, okay, what do I want to
experience?

492
00:42:07,459 --> 00:42:08,860
And it's having that every time.

493
00:42:08,860 --> 00:42:11,002
What do I want to experience?

494
00:42:11,002 --> 00:42:16,836
And if it isn't that, let's not go searching for it because we put it to bed, you know?

495
00:42:16,836 --> 00:42:20,368
I hope that's helpful.

496
00:42:21,780 --> 00:42:25,281
I think it's, I picked up two things there.

497
00:42:25,742 --> 00:42:27,222
It's all thoughts.

498
00:42:27,783 --> 00:42:29,723
And you said, I don't want to feel that.

499
00:42:29,723 --> 00:42:35,145
So you've got that thought and you've then said just now, I don't want to feel that.

500
00:42:35,146 --> 00:42:36,646
And I think that's quite interesting.

501
00:42:36,646 --> 00:42:42,909
So you're already, you've already taken one aspect of it, transmuted it to something else
instead of, don't want that.

502
00:42:42,909 --> 00:42:49,151
So you've worked out a really nice way to splice that apart from here to here.

503
00:42:49,375 --> 00:42:52,537
Yeah, having boundaries, having thought boundaries.

504
00:42:55,419 --> 00:43:01,983
I mean, if you let your thoughts go wild, it's just not, it doesn't, it's not beneficial.

505
00:43:03,345 --> 00:43:06,117
So yeah, it's not today.

506
00:43:06,117 --> 00:43:08,628
Maybe tomorrow.

507
00:43:09,652 --> 00:43:10,173
Not today.

508
00:43:10,173 --> 00:43:10,813
That's good enough.

509
00:43:10,813 --> 00:43:12,034
Yeah, I like that.

510
00:43:12,034 --> 00:43:15,967
And that that reminds me because at half past three this morning, everything was breaking
hell loose.

511
00:43:15,967 --> 00:43:24,582
There was tsunamis and thoughts and this that and the other just like, this is really not
helpful, guys, I could actually do with some sleep, which didn't happen.

512
00:43:25,804 --> 00:43:26,622
Yeah.

513
00:43:26,622 --> 00:43:28,626
be the most aligned time.

514
00:43:28,626 --> 00:43:32,331
It's the most active time, isn't it, I think they say.

515
00:43:33,104 --> 00:43:35,795
It certainly was and it was the case of this is not right.

516
00:43:35,795 --> 00:43:40,466
So out with a piece of paper and then jot some things down and then it made sense of it.

517
00:43:40,466 --> 00:43:44,768
But yeah, it was, I really had to, as you said, dis-identify.

518
00:43:44,768 --> 00:43:45,168
I got it.

519
00:43:45,168 --> 00:43:49,489
Dis-identify with that thought and just say, stop, you're not being helpful.

520
00:43:50,009 --> 00:43:56,831
And it's hard because it's easy to get in that roller coaster of thoughts, thoughts,
thoughts, boom, boom, boom, boom.

521
00:43:57,731 --> 00:44:01,432
And it is, it's it's a sensual roller coaster.

522
00:44:01,786 --> 00:44:05,029
sense, sensual, not sensual, yeah.

523
00:44:05,842 --> 00:44:09,223
And it's the most empowering thing to take reigns on that.

524
00:44:09,943 --> 00:44:15,526
You know, and it's like, it's just so empowering to be able to choose.

525
00:44:15,526 --> 00:44:22,418
And even though it's hard, that initial stage is hard because we're taught to be in this
survival mode of life.

526
00:44:22,418 --> 00:44:24,748
But if I don't think about it, then what's going to happen?

527
00:44:24,748 --> 00:44:26,819
It's going to go, you know, it's not going to work.

528
00:44:26,819 --> 00:44:28,479
And then, you know, it's like that.

529
00:44:28,479 --> 00:44:31,650
And it's like the constant worry and what ifs, but

530
00:44:32,174 --> 00:44:34,035
The only moment is now.

531
00:44:37,598 --> 00:44:39,279
you know, time isn't linear.

532
00:44:39,279 --> 00:44:41,360
It is happening all at the same time.

533
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:46,204
So that's why it's always important to feel because we can feel into our past.

534
00:44:46,204 --> 00:44:48,865
hold energy from our past.

535
00:44:49,706 --> 00:45:00,644
And so it's like, OK, let's focus on releasing the moment that we can start releasing all
of these trauma and traps, emotions is the moment that we start to come into a proper

536
00:45:00,644 --> 00:45:01,325
alignment.

537
00:45:01,325 --> 00:45:01,958
But yeah.

538
00:45:01,958 --> 00:45:02,909
Brilliant.

539
00:45:02,909 --> 00:45:07,211
I think this has been completely enlightening because I've never met anything like this.

540
00:45:09,013 --> 00:45:09,923
I really haven't.

541
00:45:09,923 --> 00:45:11,745
So thank you for that.

542
00:45:11,745 --> 00:45:17,118
Thank you for sharing it because yeah, it's quite uncomfortable.

543
00:45:17,118 --> 00:45:28,566
As you said, it's shameful and obviously it's been a, I don't like the word battle, it's
been a process to get that clarity and sanity and not be locked up in a small room with

544
00:45:28,566 --> 00:45:29,846
padded walls.

545
00:45:29,847 --> 00:45:32,098
So yeah, I think that's spectacular.

546
00:45:32,737 --> 00:45:36,350
I mean I hope it helps other people because we all deserve happiness you know.

547
00:45:36,350 --> 00:45:40,203
It doesn't matter what thoughts you have you know.

548
00:45:40,564 --> 00:45:44,708
It's the choices you make, it's the person you are, it's what you what you are at heart
that's what matters.

549
00:45:44,708 --> 00:45:45,288
Perfect.

550
00:45:45,288 --> 00:45:49,322
That last sentence has summed it up beautifully, Eleanor.

551
00:45:49,322 --> 00:45:50,382
Thank you.

552
00:45:51,124 --> 00:45:58,690
I'm sure there's going to be people interested in finding out about you and maybe having a
chat with you saying, hey, I resonate.

553
00:45:58,690 --> 00:45:59,651
you help?

554
00:45:59,651 --> 00:46:03,864
Where can people find out about you and things like that?

555
00:46:04,489 --> 00:46:10,620
So interestingly enough, my sort of career path and things have changed within the past
week.

556
00:46:10,620 --> 00:46:27,244
So I am able now to start to do what I want to do, which is to help people and to produce
things, whether on, on, a lot of different ways to be able to help people through, I've

557
00:46:27,244 --> 00:46:29,575
set up a page called wonderfully mental.

558
00:46:29,575 --> 00:46:34,686
I have my own page, which is the divine conscious feminine.

559
00:46:34,686 --> 00:46:36,066
through Instagram.

560
00:46:37,268 --> 00:46:40,670
I'm not on it too much, but I'm always available to help.

561
00:46:40,670 --> 00:46:43,452
So if anybody ever wants to reach out.

562
00:46:43,452 --> 00:46:55,329
But Wonderfully Mental is about accepting all of the flaws that we have, any of the mental
health, all of the stuff that we think is the crust on the bottom of the shoe, you know?

563
00:46:55,329 --> 00:47:00,752
And just be like, okay, let's just love ourselves as we are.

564
00:47:01,370 --> 00:47:03,281
And we can still change.

565
00:47:03,281 --> 00:47:06,075
We can still change things that we don't like.

566
00:47:06,075 --> 00:47:10,219
We can still be triggered and maybe act in a way that we don't feel is best for us.

567
00:47:10,219 --> 00:47:11,920
And that's okay.

568
00:47:12,141 --> 00:47:16,165
You know, and it's just really trying to promote us, trying to love ourselves more.

569
00:47:16,686 --> 00:47:22,831
So yeah, Wonderfully Mental is going to be the name.

570
00:47:24,472 --> 00:47:25,944
I absolutely love it.

571
00:47:25,944 --> 00:47:27,446
I'm going to find that.

572
00:47:28,448 --> 00:47:30,131
yeah, I think that's brilliant.

573
00:47:30,131 --> 00:47:34,988
And I think this is obviously why we didn't do the podcast two months ago, because you
weren't ready to have this release.

574
00:47:34,988 --> 00:47:37,298
So think the timing is just divinely perfect.

575
00:47:37,298 --> 00:47:40,028
you for having me, I really appreciate you.

576
00:47:40,595 --> 00:47:41,597
it's been fab.

577
00:47:41,597 --> 00:47:48,461
And one, the most important question, what is your superpower that you have got from
overcoming these demons in your head?

578
00:47:48,461 --> 00:47:50,012
Empowerment.

579
00:47:50,012 --> 00:47:56,476
mean, I know, even though sometimes don't get me wrong, I don't have time sometimes to do
the things I want to do.

580
00:47:56,476 --> 00:47:59,600
But I know I'm in control.

581
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,221
I'm just empowered.

582
00:48:01,221 --> 00:48:02,893
I feel like I'm empowered feminine.

583
00:48:02,893 --> 00:48:04,976
Yeah, that's the superpower.

584
00:48:04,976 --> 00:48:07,620
It's overall just shining.

585
00:48:10,460 --> 00:48:10,971
love it.

586
00:48:10,971 --> 00:48:11,322
Love it.

587
00:48:11,322 --> 00:48:13,107
This has been spectacular.

588
00:48:13,107 --> 00:48:14,401
Thank you ever so much, Alan.

589
00:48:14,401 --> 00:48:17,095
I've been really, really, really appreciate it.

590
00:48:17,095 --> 00:48:18,200
Thank you for having me.

591
00:48:18,934 --> 00:48:23,294
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Crucible: Conversations for the Curious.

592
00:48:23,294 --> 00:48:31,934
If these powerful stories of transformation resonated with you, be sure to like, subscribe
and share this show with anyone who you think could do with a dose of inspiration for

593
00:48:31,934 --> 00:48:32,874
their own journey.

594
00:48:32,874 --> 00:48:39,454
I would really appreciate it if you could make any comments on your favourite podcast
platform as well, that helps me reach more people.

595
00:48:39,454 --> 00:48:42,914
All the important links and information are in the show notes below.

596
00:48:42,914 --> 00:48:45,998
Thank you very much for listening and catch up with you soon.