I'm Naveed Kiani, and welcome to Chief Dad Officers, the podcast with three working dads navigating the chaos of parenting, the unquenchable thirst for career success, and fighting everything that life throws at us. Joining me, my cohost, Andrew Kirst and Matt Welch, as we plan

to take

a deep dive into today's topic, finding out you're going to be a dad, OMG moment. All right, boys. I know we usually go into dad wins and fails, but I'm actually going to start this off and kind of keep the mic for a second. So this week, we actually found out that we are gonna become parents again. Yeah, baby.

So pregnancy number three. But I do have something to admit. I feel like if this was a group project and if we had what do we got? We got 17 kids between between the three of us. Like, we've definitely got an a, but I've been letting the team down.

Like, I feel like you guys are, like, really carrying me. So I figured, like, in the in the spirit of efficiency, you know, we decided to have twins.

Come on. Baby. Twins. Really?

Big news.

Making the jump.

Listen. It's it's all about Skipping line.

That's right. Twins on her side or your side?

I've got twins on my side. So my my first cousins so my dad's brother in the same situation had two kids at that at that point in time. Were they were basically like, we'll have one more, and

they had twins. So now this might be getting too off topic, but like, is it fraternal twins if it's on your side? What makes the difference between a fraternal or maternal twin? Does anybody know?

I have

no idea. I know there's terms, I just don't

what they I always thought fraternal just meant they weren't identical. So

fraternal is basically they don't share the same sack.

Gotcha. Okay.

So Okay. But fraternal can still result in identical. Okay. So there's a twenty five percent chance that fraternal twins could be identical twins.

Well, dude, I mean, here's the thing. I have a lot of kids. Sure. But twins? That's another one.

Yeah.

Listen. Twins in of itself That's is a separate I don't even know episode. It could be a separate podcast.

Right. Right.

If you have twins out there, leave a comment

Yeah. Please.

Yep. Because we would love to we'll have you we'll interview. We'll have you on in in interview.

That's how Yeah.

That's how cool I think.

Or anyone This guy's gonna need all the help he can get. Absolutely.

Yeah. Absolutely. Well, look. In in that vein, I figured today's episode, talk all about, you know, finding out that you're going to become a dad, whether it was the first time, the second time, or the eleventh time, and kind of just, you know, capture those emotions because, you know, with with with our first, you know, the the the lead off question is, did you feel ready to become a dad? And I think mentally, I felt ready.

But I think the expectations versus the reality is kind of like never it never really lines up. So like, while I was mentally ready to become a dad, the first time you find out that you become you're becoming a dad, the emotions that you experience versus the second time when we found out everything was, you know, a little bit more different. And so this third time when we found out that we were that we were having a kid, we were pretty mellow. We were trying, like we were planning for it. We were very fortuitous that it planned or panned out rather.

But when I found out that it was twins, it was just an emotion that I haven't experienced. Was-

when you so so, you know, full disclosure, obviously, you told us before the episode. Yeah. But, like, my it was my first thought was, like, what does that feel like? Because it's not just, like, oh, I'm having a kid. It's, I'm having a kid.

I'm having two

kids. And it's, like, you're you're it's like going back to the beginning again. It's it's it it

does feel like that. It it felt like pit pit in the stomach is the wrong phrase because

of course. Because it's not negative.

It's not negative. Yeah. But it's like the the same butterflies that you get in a moment of excitement. Like, think about, like, you know, you know, a first date with your with your spouse. Yeah.

That's that's fair.

Or or think about, like, your wedding day and and, you know, waiting for the day to start. Mhmm. It's like excitement tinge with nervousness, but you're not really sure why you're nervous. Yeah. But it's still excitement.

And so it kind of flip flops between between the two. And then your immediate stuff goes directly to your wife. Right? I mean, she's the one that's gonna have to carry Yeah. The two twins.

She's the one that's gonna have to, you know

Go Irene. Go through them. Yeah. Seriously. Yeah.

No.

But seriously, I mean, that that that that's what it is. But what what about you guys? Like, how did did you ever feel ready to become a dad?

I like you said, mentally, you feel like I'm ready.

Yeah. You

know? I think it was a point in my life. I know I know I wanted kids.

Yeah.

We wanted kids. And so I felt ready, but there's so much naivety in that too. Like, you just there's just things you don't know until you have How old were

dad? You guys had your own

birth defects. Was in my early thirties. You were. Okay. Yeah.

So we had a little bit of a harder story. We were trying to get pregnant, and we weren't getting pregnant. And so we it took us two years of of doing a lot of different things to actually get pregnant the first time. So so we were ecstatic when we when we found out, but it like, we were trying and planning and it wasn't easy. Yeah.

Right? And so that created a different dynamic for us. But, yeah, it's it's one of those things, like, to your question, are you ready? Yeah. Right?

You're just, like, ready to jump in. That's kinda how you feel like. It's like jumping off a cliff.

You're way younger than us.

We we were. So my wife, it was weird. She she, for some reason, thought she's like, I I her biggest fear in life was that she wasn't gonna be able to have kids.

Okay.

Like, that was her biggest fear.

Yeah.

And there was no there was no founding. It wasn't like a doctor told her, hey. You can't have kids or anything like that. Was just for whatever reason, it was her her biggest fear. So she was like, we got married, she was 20 and I was 22 when we got married.

Wow. So we got married really, really young.

And

we got pregnant within two months of getting married. Wow.

We had realized it was that soon.

We got married in March and then the following April, we had maybe it wasn't too many.

It was

four months, five, whatever the number was. Sure. But we got married in March, and we had a baby the following April, like a like a month apart. So we got married March tenth.

We had

a baby in

the tenth. Yeah.

Sort of four, five months, whatever the difference is there. Yeah. But, yeah, man, I always wanted a lot of kids. I didn't necessarily think it was gonna be 11. But I always wanted a big family.

I always felt like I come from a big family, so it's like there's a bunch of fun there. So I felt I was ready. But I would say, looking back on that 22 year old who had a kid, I'm like, and in the pictures of me being like, that dude wasn't ready. That dude had no idea. But then again, I think that's always the case.

You had kids a little bit later

in your life.

How old you when you had your first kid?

I was 30. I was

exactly So like, you're a little bit more, you at least have seen enough of like, oh, this is how to play the part. So you can kind like fake it till you make We were so young that we were just kind of like, I mean, I don't really know what you do. But I never felt out of my depth, put it that way. But I will say in the hospital, when you're 20 in the hospital, they look at you like you have no idea what you're doing. Yeah.

So anyway.

Did they treat you teen pregnancy type type

of way?

No. It wasn't like that, but they definitely didn't really care what we had to say.

Sure.

It was kinda it was it was kinda a little bit irritating. That's why we actually went to all home births after the first one there.

Where where where were you guys when you found out you were gonna be dad for the first time? Do you remember?

No. We're I was trying to think about this. No. I don't I don't remember the exact spot. Because, again, we were, like, trying and, like, trying to find out, like, all the time.

So, like, my wife was constantly peeing on a stick and Mhmm. You know what I mean? We were, like, doing that thing all

the time.

Hold on for a second. Peking on a stick is so funny because, like, your wife will then shove it in

your face and be like, does this look like a line? And you're like, and here's the thing. I I've been very good. Like, I don't really touch them. Just like, I don't know.

You tell me. Just look and you're putting

glasses on, let's go.

You know you know what's really funny? So, the first time that you you you know you have you know, you're having a kid or you're trying to get like, you're actually trying to have a kid,

like Yeah.

You go out and you buy, like, like you're not buying the cheap the cheap pregnancy. No. You're buying the Yeah. Yeah. The Monastat.

Whatever. It's, like, $40 test, whatever. Yeah. Well, when you have so many, we started just buying them in bulk from the dollar. It was, like, the cheapest one.

It was, like, we get, like, a dollar or whatever, Someone told them that.

That's a dad hack.

They might

be. So it got to a point where there just a stack of them in whatever, bathroom. Every time my wife was feeling off, she's like, oh, okay. Not breaking.

And that's a great dad hack though, man. Those things get those things get pricey.

So

it's like And have no idea if they're actually better. Like, don't I don't there's no proof of them. But you'll see them and they're like, oh, this one actually

This one's 99

points something. Two lines or one line or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. That debate that you have

with your spouse around is it one line or two lines? Like, it's

like Yeah.

I don't know. It throws me back to COVID when you

were trying to check if it was,

like, one line or two. Yeah.

It it it it like, incredibly exciting, though. Like, the fact. Because it's almost like that experience where you, like, you very rarely in life, you've done all the things. You typically settle into your career or you get married, you do all those things. You're kind of like, okay, well what is there left?

And having your kid for the first time kind of re engage is all those like Totally.

Yeah. And we'll go into that in a little It's Where

are you guys at, Naveed, when when you found out?

Ours was ours was weird. So we were we were still we were still living in New York at that time and COVID happened and everything shut down. So we we probably in January or Feb of of twenty twenty really sat down and we're like, okay, let's kind of map out like what we want, like the next five to ten years to like. And we had basically decided we were going to move out to the suburbs sort of in the vicinity of New York City. So we actually were working with a broker at the time.

We had started looking at houses and we basically were like, okay, Jan Feb, let's start trying for a kid. And I think if we trace it back to to keep it PG 13, we went to a Celine Dion concert.

I was gonna say Adele, really? Like, not a Celine Dion and Adele.

Right? We went

to Celine Dion. Celine Dion it, man.

Listen. She's got the pipes, man.

It was actually

her first show post her Vegas residency. Remember how she had

that Vegas residency in

her period? And then she got super sick and now doesn't perform anymore. So we went with a couple of friends. It was amazing. So if I kind of look back, I think it was around then TMI, obviously.

Did you

give yourself high five? Celine Dion. My

heart will go on.

Surprised you have a kid, your daughter's not named Celine. Seriously.

Yeah. Yeah. Very true.

There's still time. There's still time.

But no. COVID happened. Everything shut down. Irene was feeling like a little bit nauseous. She peed on a stick, came back out, said I was pregnant.

And I was just like so overcome with like emotion. I just started crying.

Oh, really? Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. I did. I did.

Yeah. I I wanted to have that. I didn't. It just came out.

Like, I wasn't planning

to No. That's great. No. And and I think that's where, like, being older, you like really understand the impact that it has. When you're younger, you're kinda just like, well, this is the next step I do.

Yeah. Right? So there's little bit of like a difference there.

Yeah.

It's it's

I gotta say that my like, when the baby's actually born, every time, man, I just and then I found out it's a girl every time.

Yeah.

I just you just break down.

Yeah.

I'm just like I I I don't have that. There's but there's something That's it. There's this little window.

And and we'll obviously do an episode about, like, the the actual birth itself.

Yeah. Yeah.

But, like, there's something so pure about, like, that

specific moment. For whatever reason, I was never overwhelmed with

Well, you've been busy every

time you've been delivering these babies. The emotion. True. No, no, no, no. It's true.

I'm saying more in like, we might talk about it later, but there's people like, know, the first time I held my child in my hands and I looked at it, they have these great, great stories. And I don't know if I just don't have that emotion to me, but I never felt like Now there was that thing of like, man, I'm gonna have to take care of this. And then you have your first daughter. And it's a little bit different. I would say our first child was a son, second child was a daughter.

And then when you get your daughter, you do feel a little bit more like, okay, I now to be willing to kill. Like Yeah. At any moment, any day, I am doing that. Let's create

that magical moment for you. I mean, why don't you come for when the twins are born?

You take a twin. Yeah.

You take a twin. And we'll

just make it. I'm sure Irene would love that. Yeah. Why are there a whole bunch of people?

Why are these guys here?

No. No. We won't look

we won't

look just

Why don't why don't we just

do a podcast from the from the hospital? Feeling? How you feeling?

Yeah. Will you keep

it down back then? What about second kid, third kid, fourth kid, you know, eleventh kid? Like, I did does does does stuff change for you guys, or did stuff change for you guys as as it progressed?

I would say as I got older, I maybe started realizing the impact that it was having. Sure. And so we had 11 kids. All of them were one at a time as well. So shockingly, we don't have any Twins or anything like that.

And so and we did that in a sixteen year period. Yeah. Right? So my wife was typically either pregnant or breastfeeding for most of those sixteen years.

Mhmm.

And so I would say that for us, might be a little bit different in the sense that we were very, very busy. But we look at a child as a gift from God. So we don't necessarily like for us it was very much like, okay, God is giving us this gift and we were very grateful every time. But there was never for me, there was never this emotion of like I don't know, like I said before, I hear these people, I hear people talk about how this was like changed their world. It was that and

it just But did you guys ever sit down with your wives and kind of contextualize like what this now means for your life? Kid one, kid two, kid three, whatever. And the reason I ask and let me preface this is there are five or six things that like if if you look at studies that every dad gets stressed about. And most of these may seem obvious, but the primary stressor that a dad has is financial readiness. Sure.

With the cost of raising a kid. Then there's this notion of changing of your identity. So you've gone from, like, being a couple or whatever to now being a dad. The next one is work life balance. So this this struggle and this notion of being present

Mhmm.

For for your kids. Then it's the relationship shift. And and and we've we've, you know, spent an episode talking about, like, you know, date nights and stuff like that. But the relationship the relationship shift between yourself and your partner. And then the the last one, which probably doesn't get talked about, you know, that much is just your competence as a father, whether you will be a strong father.

And maybe you're looking at your previous relationship with your dad and trying to think through. So kind of thinking through those five or six things that I've listed, did any of those things come to mind when you guys found out you were being a dad? Did the financial piece come up? Did the competence piece come up? Did the how is this gonna fit around, like, my work life?

Did did any of that come up for you guys?

I I feel like before, not really. It was more after we started having kids that that we started because then you you you're living in the reality of that. Yep. I think before you could think about it as much as you want, but until you're supporting another little human living at your house, you realize, oh, I thought I could do this, but it's just not gonna be feasible. I'm gonna have to change, I'm gonna have to flip some things around so that we can make this work.

So I feel like it was it was more post

Post is a good one.

Post than it was before.

Yeah. Because you don't you don't realize. Like, most of it's just kind of numbers on a page. How how much do you think forget college. How much do you think it costs in America right now to raise a kid from the age of, you know, zero to to 18?

So not not inclusive

of college.

I think I've seen this metric before. Is it like $200 or something like that?

What do you I was gonna guess a cup like, around that at least.

So in 02/2015, it was close to 200,000. In 02/2025, that number has gone up to $297,000. Gosh. That's great. Times 300?

Heard about work life balance

over here?

Well and and and let's stay on that vein, right, like, of of of work life balance and and and trying to think through, like, okay. You have more kids and the financial stresses, you know, increase, but then you've also got, like, you know, wanting to spend time with your kids and kind of balancing that. In the nineteen sixties, how many minutes a day do you think a dad spent with their kid in the nineteen sixties? '19 I don't know.

Twenty five minutes.

Yeah. No. So

I would

say under an hour.

It's twenty five minutes.

Twenty five minutes. Nice.

Nailed it.

In in in 02/2025, how many minutes a day do you think a dad spends with their kids? Now you have to obviously account for the fact that it's a working dad. Kids are probably either staying home with their mom Yeah. Or doing daycare. But on average, how much do you think?

I would say, like, forty five minutes to an hour probably. That'd be my guess.

I would I would say maybe two to three hours if, you know, if depending on when your kid goes to bed. Yeah. That's also true.

That's also true. So so I it's it's obviously an an an average at that point. So seventy five minutes. Okay. So we're spending three times as much with our kids than Yeah.

Than than our dads and and and grandparents. It's go us because good for us.

Good for us, I guess.

Yeah. Good for us, I think.

Have we taken the lie though?

But no, it it like I said, like, once and I think Matt kinda touched on it. Like, once you have or once you find out you're pregnant, it's it's different, right? Like post having a kid and we can get into that another time. But like the actual notion of having a kid, what what what concerns did you and your partner kind of have to have to overcome? Like I'm talking logistical concerns.

I'm talking financial concerns. I'm talking, you know, any anything from, like, personal identity crisis that you may have had. Like, did anything change for you guys from from that standpoint?

We my wife works, and she works for a nonprofit she's really passionate about. So of course that was something we had to talk through and discuss. Like are you gonna keep your job or are we gonna And she wanted to, she had a desire to, and we had to kind of figure that out we went. Which, yeah, she's actually been able to to do that. Yeah.

You know, thanks to their flexibility as well as her flexibility. But that was a that was a big one because I I think, again, as you're having kids and you're realizing the reality of your life and day and what it needs from you, yeah, there's only so much time to go around. Yeah. So and like stuff as a dad or as a man, like, there's just things you just can't do as much anymore. Right?

What what about you? Like, with so many, like, did at any point things around financial concerns, logistical concerns, work concerns ever come in?

Yeah. The work concerns never really came in. I never really thought, oh, am I working too much or am I working too little? It just never really entered my brain. It was just like, what are these costs of pocket I'm going And the cost, 200 or 300 really at that point, it's so much.

It's like you're gonna be

working a lot

for your kids. And I would say that when we had our first kid, we were kind of just like, whatever, one kid's not a big deal. And my wife and I have always taken this approach, like we've said before, if we look at children as a gift from God, we also have to believe that God's gonna take care of that child. If we do all the work that we can do and carry out and be faithful and all sorts of stuff. So from our point of view it was kinda like, okay, with this in mind, we know that there's always gonna be a way for us to make ends meet.

We were very young, so my wife ended up not working after we had our first kid. She was a stay at home mom after that. And would say for her that was probably a bigger adjustment than me because whatever. Think we went back to work a week after we had our first kid or something like that, so relatively quickly.

Oh wow.

Yeah. As we had more kids, I've spent more time at home. It was 75. Yes. Yeah.

It was pretty quick. And for her, was like, the first kid was great. It's like, got this little pal with me and I can run around. Because one kid really doesn't add a whole bunch of impact in your life.

It doesn't with hindsight. I think at that moment,

it's hard. Percent. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Because when you start having multiples, then you're like, what was I ever complaining about?

Exactly. Like, we like, our first kid, like, we didn't have a bedtime for him. Dude would just roll with us. He'd be, like, one in the morning, and he'd to bed with us at one in the morning. And he'd sleep till 10:00 on the weekend or whatever.

Yeah. So he, like like, our oldest son, he just, like no matter what the time was, we just kinda kept living our life. And you get two and you get three, and then you're like, oh, man. Bedtime's at 08:00. Or they get to an age where, like, you should not be keeping a two year old up till two

in morning.

Right? Like, that's stupid. But a breastfeeding baby, who cares how late they're So like, you start having to put your kids down at, you know, like, okay, 08:00. And that's when your life starts changing because like the schedule starts becoming more morphed to the children, I think. And that's when you start really feeling like, oh, man, like, gotta be home by this time to do this thing or Yeah.

How did you guys prepare in that, like, nine month lead up? Did you guys have anything that you specifically did?

For the first one, no. We just you just kind of go with the flow. You have the baby shower. You know? You listen to like, everybody has opinions.

Yeah. It's hilarious. I mean, you get so much input that you don't always ask for.

Yeah.

But you get so much input, you know, that you're you're just

This is when you

need show up. People that don't have And you're like

Or you, like, know how bad they're

Or you know how bad. Yeah. Yeah. Let's

name and

shame people. Yeah. Let's do it now. I don't think I'm taking this piece of advice. Now did you were you, like, a get the nursery ready?

Did you guys have, like, a nursery setup? Yeah. We did. Did. We did.

Anything like that?

Yeah. Did you did you guys find out the gender every single time?

No. We did not so we didn't find out on our first one. We did not find out our second one. We found out with our third and not our fourth.

So not your

fourth? Right. No. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow.

How about you? We found out every every time.

You seem like someone who's very type eight.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I needed, like, what am I gonna do? Like, paint, like, a gender neutral, like, country?

Come

on, girl.

It was

great because then everyone had to get more like, people came and brought clothes once they found out the actual gender, you know, because

our gender neutralization. Our biggest issue is, like, our first was born so underweight that everything we did to prepare for it went out the window because everything then needed, like, preemie clothes, preemie diapers.

Did you have to spend time in the hospital? We didn't thankfully. Oh, that's good.

Yeah, thank God we did not. Yeah, that was-

How about you, did you have any time needed to spend in the hospital?

No, we didn't have any NICU

stuff. Most of us are home births, but-

Yeah, really Doctor. Hust over there, why would you need to? Exactly.

One of the different things too was, we were talking about one, two, three, four, and being thankful. And again, because it was so hard for us to get our first one, were super thankful every time we got pregnant. And then we did actually lose weight on miscarriage between our second and third kid. And so that was super hard, it was a little later than they normally happen to, which created a lot of challenges. But then again, when we were able to start trying again, we got pregnant almost immediately again, which was awesome.

But yeah, so it's funny because you still have that thankfulness. If you want more kids and you get another kid, and then you realize too, I feel like for us, the first two years trying, you hear about people just having babies all the time, but when you actually start learning on everything that happens, it's a total miracle.

I'm glad you guys learned because I still don't a % understand success.

There's a stork that

comes with me with the still don't

a %.

Well, actually, here's another pivot for you guys. How do you tell your kids? How have you typically told your kids about, like, the pregnancy?

How have you told your kids? Pregnancy. Mean, because to me, it's we we've gotta we gotta wait to but how how

We don't have a really special thing. Like, we just we just tell them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Just well, we probably What

do you do?

No. There's nothing necessarily special. It's just like it got to such a rhythm that it was like an expectation for our kids. Like, they would just start sensing it. Oh, mom's getting tired, whatever.

And then, you know, Anna would take a test and be like, hey, guys, guess what? You're gonna have

a 27 boxes of pregnancy tests that you guys have lying around me.

Like, it was just, like it was like a dispenser. You know you know the the what the, like, the

Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have one of those in our bag.

It's like

a gumball That's

great.

I would I would also kinda categorize it and say that, like, once you also have, like, a kid or, like, other kids, like, in the mix, tend to or you tend to then view them older than they actually are. 100 If that makes sense. So even a recent trip that we did sidetracked, but my oldest, it felt like she was able to help us throughout the airport and things like that. So now that we are expecting twins, my youngest suddenly seems older to me. Suddenly, you're thinking and you're looking at a two year old going, you have to grow up pretty quick.

You're gonna have to

figure it. And what we've seen so we were very confident that we've reached the end of our natural children. And it's kind of funny because every kid prior, when we had the next kid, it was like they immediately matured. We had the baby and the kid matured. And I'm not saying they didn't get crabby with mom and want more mommy time because they feel that natural bond somewhat changing, but they would all of a sudden become mature in a different way.

And so your youngest will automatically become more mature. But what's funny is like our youngest, you can tell like that jump isn't being forced in any way. So he's like, there's a good chance he stays more like, oh, I can kinda do whatever I want whenever I want as opposed to having like, there is like timing and authoritative stuff that happens when you have more discipline in your life. Yeah. Whereas being the youngest is kinda like everybody he's now got 10 siblings and all like, oh, do you need this?

Do you need this?

Do you

need this? As opposed to when you have the next kid, who cares about that kid?

Yeah. Yeah. What what about I was gonna ask. What about, like, control? Right?

So, like, helicopter parents. So before you have I feel like your first one, you you wanna control so much of the environment and so

much share on that one. The the the very first time so when we had our elders, because she was so underweight, it's like she really struggled to, like, breastfeed. But my wife was, like, really adamant to, like, still give, like, breast milk. You're you're you're you're doing, the the pumping and the express and all that kind of stuff. But we were so neurotic that we used to have, a pen and paper on our bedside table, and we were writing down, like, how much, like, the first kid was, like, drinking.

And because it it was, like right. Because then suddenly you have, a four pound something baby.

Yeah. Because they lose whatever

And they whatever in the first couple of weeks. So we we were it's it's fogging up. But the second time, you don't do any of that stuff.

That's what I was gonna ask. So did that change for you the second time?

We we didn't we didn't track what, like, was being done in terms of drinking. We barely tracked, like, what the naps were. And and that's also because you've also got like another human being in the house.

Yeah. Yeah.

And we were just so like, we were so much more go with the flow, but you can also kind of tell that with the personality traits of the kids a little bit. Mhmm. Because like the eldest needs like, you know, a perfectly dark room with a sound machine and all of that stuff. And that's just indicative of like, yeah, like what we did, like as parents the first time. The second time is just a lot more sort of go with the flow.

And I'm assuming the more you have, the more that kind of jives as you as you move forward as well.

But I think like you said, like, is also your perspective. We have one child, I think like our fourth child, third yeah, fourth child, where her heart would I don't know what would happen. Like, it would stop. Oh wow. I don't remember the exact issue with it, but it would go go go, get out of rhythm, and then just like Arrhythmia type thing?

I don't know exactly what it was. We'd have to kind of like, you don't slap her in the face, you almost have shake it, do, like, sternal, like, stim to kinda, like, get her back into rhythm. And so, like, we had this pad that she would sleep on, and, the pad would, like, would sense if she gets out of rhythm Wow. Or something like that. And so, like, there's those times where you're just like, Definitely be neurotic with that.

Yeah. There's times like that and that's kid number four to where you're kind of like, oh, we do this all the time. And then some kid throws a wrench, between our second and third kid, my wife didn't know we were pregnant because she got pregnant two months or three months of having Oh, wow. The first kid. And everybody said, we can't get pregnant when you breastfeed.

Yeah. That's right. Told her.

Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Well, you can. You've done it many times. Yeah. Right?

Yeah. But she got he they're born like they're Irish twins, so they're born literally a year apart.

Yeah.

So she was Vivi, my second daughter, she would just cry. And we're like, what is her problem? And so we took her to all these doctors, and doctors were like, well, we don't really know. There's nothing. And what we end up finding out is when you get pregnant, you typically stop producing breast milk.

And so she wasn't, like, eating enough. Oh, wow. And so it ended up being, like, you know, this whole thing where, like, then, of course, me, like, I'm getting up at 2AM to feed her in the middle of the night, whatever. Which is actually, we have a really cool special bond now because, like Yeah. It was the only child of my 11 kids that I spent, like, that much time with feeding her two, three times a night or whatever it was.

But all that to say, think different kids or as you either have more or have kids with issues, you kind of go in and out of that sort of helicopter y type scenario.

That's good question. Yeah. I wrestle with that for sure. I don't know. You just wanna Especially having girls, just think, okay, we gotta just ease into this.

My wife's more just like,

That's why you read that book, like The Anxious Generation, it talks about helicopter parenting. Oh, yeah. It talks about the whole bend and don't break. You do have to kind of let your kids just go with the flow a little bit more.

Oh, for sure.

Yeah. Like, it's just it's it it you you just can't create like a like a laboratory environment for them.

It doesn't work. It just doesn't. Yeah.

Doesn't as much as you want.

Control little people. You can't control big people either, but you it's just like, it's not gonna go it's not gonna go you. There you go. Someone else's.

You guys think men, like, experience physical or emotional changes during pregnancy? That's not a loaded question.

Sympathy weight is a real issue.

This is for sure. Why are you laughing? I've I've done some research on this.

I'm gonna start a support group.

Sympathy weight. We I listen.

Research has found that expectant fathers undergo biological and emotional changes. Oxytocin levels in men increase when their partner is pregnant, which helps them bond with their baby and partner. Sure. Some men even experience sympathetic pregnancy symptoms. It's pronounced by the suvade

or Lactating?

They can be

a trouble.

Said that

in confidence. But it's called suvade syndrome or suvade syndrome. You know, forgive my pronunciation. But it includes weight gain, nausea, and mood swings for men. How about that?

Listen, I get that when I I was gonna say you had that for about sixteen years. You should get that looked at.

That's awesome. That's awesome.

Now I would just stick my belly out every time I you know when women take pictures when they're pregnant, they always wanna show, make sure everyone knows I'm pregnant in this picture. So I just started doing the same thing on every picture.

I will say, again, a little bit off topic, but I do enjoy when your wife's pregnancy cravings start kicking in because then it's guilt free whatever.

My wife's craving was spicy almost every single time. No. That's not I I Like a bore super boring. Right?

And that's not even boring. I'm just not like

a big spicy guy. But so she would we were like we weren't like, we were making very little when we had our first kid. Yeah. Just like completely off topic. We were not like we were very, very little as a as a family.

Yeah. And so we ate spaghetti and, like, pretty much every single

day. Yeah. Yeah.

And so she would make this spaghetti sauce. I kid you not. It was so freaking spicy. Like, I'd eat two bites of it. I love it's like my favorite.

Yeah. Yeah.

I'd eat two bites of it just be like, I can't do this. And she'd be like, oh my gosh. This is the bet I I keep making this better and better. It kept getting spicier and spicier. And so and and so real quick, not to get too far off topic, but so the night night before she goes into labor, she ends up eating, like, whatever leftover.

She ends up eating it, like, two in the morning, goes right into labor.

The spicy.

Spicy. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Like, when she gets back on her feet, whatever it was, three three, four weeks later, she makes the same spicy spaghetti.

She eats, like, two bites of it. She's like, oh my gosh. I must have done something wrong. I'm like, no. This is what you've been doing for eight, nine months.

Like, this is this is what I've been experiencing.

Did you tell her or did were you just were you just, like, you know, keeping quiet and pounding

it I'd eat, like, just a little bit of it and just

be like, I'm done. Like, I

can't eat it. Like, I'd go wash it off or, like, dilute it down or something.

How could he eat it? He was going through Sous Vade syndrome. That's right. Yeah. This nausea and mood

swings and all that stuff.

Alright. Well, let's let's pivot to let's pivot to listener corner. So the question for this week is, if you could go back to the moment you found out, what would you say to yourself? And I'm happy to start this.

Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead, Navid. Start us off.

I would say no one knows what they're doing. Don't let any dad out there convince you otherwise. Don't let anyone out there like and and you kind of touched on it, like, fake it till you make it. Everyone's doing that in every aspect of their life.

The the older I get, the more I realize

Yeah.

Everybody does it constantly.

And I think that the biggest thing I'd say and and actually, my wife and I were very good about this is being very honest about what we're going through. So every single person lies and says, oh, my baby sleeps great. Every person lies and says, my baby eats great. Every person lies and says like, oh, I'm not tired. Mhmm.

We did the complete opposite. We were like, yeah, we're super tired. Yeah. She has colic. Like, we've been up from twelve to four.

Yeah. Everything was like warts and all. And it's also during COVID, like, know, we we were also kind of

just- That's an interesting thought, not to interrupt, but your guys' experience having your first kid during COVID is probably a lot different than our first kid was 02/2007 or 'eight.

So it's

a completely different world then.

Pre financial crisis. Wow. It was. But just that notion of no one knows what they're doing. Don't let anyone make you think otherwise.

I think just being honest. And maybe it's a scam. Maybe it's a scam because the only way we reproduce as a human race is everyone has to lie about how easy it is. And then

I mean, if if I mean, I mean, we but all of our wives had multiple multiple cases.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, like, part of me is like, is it really? Because the But but

but everything You forget everything. Like

You do forget.

Think of any physical or emotional we don't have to dive into physical or emotional traumas in this episode. But, like, any This is getting heavy.

This one's getting heavy.

I am like, thinking. But that but but you you you you tend to just forget, and you just go into the throes of having multiples, and you're just like, okay. Now this is my life, and you just add one more to the mix. So, yeah, just everyone's faking it. It's mine.

What about you guys?

I'll I'll say I would probably tell myself to, yeah, let go a little bit. Like, I mean, kind of some of that control stuff where you feel like, hey. This has to be this way. This has to be perfect. Or try to create the best environment, you know, you can for your kid all the time, and it's just not a reality.

You know? So same thing as we've had more kids. Like, every time it's like, yeah. You just they're one one, their kids are not gonna do what you think they're gonna do. And two, like, who are you to think you can control?

Yeah. You know? Maybe control's too strong of a word, but, know, it's just more of like that yeah. I would say letting go though, just the the tighter grip on on just like everything that's going on around around your kid. Yeah.

You're worried about them. You know, that was kinda my thing. Like, oh, well, there's always like age appropriate stuff for kids and and there is of course, like, you know. But if if you if you lean into that too hard, you could just feel like you're Debbie Downer, you know, walk up.

I think before Andrew asked this, I I think especially now with with with this twin twin announcement, it'll be good to kind of track in real time. Everything we're saying is with hindsight, right? That's gonna be so interesting. Yeah, that's what I mean. So we'll kind of keep track of it and kind of see exactly what you said, like trying to think through how do I let go more or how do I kind of kind of leave it in God's hands where it's like, okay, well things will work out and trying to figure that out.

So yeah, that'll be an interesting dynamic shift as we kind of progress in this episodes or in the future episodes.

So for me, I don't have a great answer for this because there's things that I would have done differently, I would say it that way. But in terms of advice, I agree with the stuff you guys said. The things you think that are important are probably not important and the that are important, you're probably not thinking of. And so it's more of long along the lines of, like, don't put too much stock into any ideas you have because you're probably wrong. Mhmm.

Yeah. Especially the things that are gonna impact you. Right? Because, like, we've had some very close friends of ours have to walk through some horrific things with their kids when they have them or whatever. It's like, man, how lucky are they?

So afterwards, in hindsight, you're like, man, whatever we had to walk through was nothing in comparison. And so I always look at it like, there are things I wish I did differently, but in terms of advice, I would just say that no matter what you're worried about or what you think you have under control, you're probably wrong. And be okay with it and just be like, you know.

That's just life advice.

It doesn't change. Since the very, very beginning of time we've been doing this and they've turned this into a medical procedure for women when women are naturally this is naturally what they do And men, this is naturally what you're supposed to do is provide and protect. And so, like, I didn't look at it as, like, this big, like, earth shattering moment. I more looked at it as, like, this is us taking our place in, like, the in in in history, if that makes sense. Yeah.

And so, like, it wasn't as big of a moment in that perspective for me. Yeah, I mean

I like going real deep.

Do. Real

deep

real It's deep,

man. Yeah.

Yeah. That's good. Good stuff.

All right. Well, look, before we close it out and before a joke or something.

Yeah. Bring it. Hickory Dickory Doc.

Please cut that

out. You don't like Andrew Dice Clay?

Well, look. Before we before we close this out, let's let's kind of go with our dad interest for for the week. Who wants to start?

I'll I'll go. I you guys ever watch Terminal List? It was a

I know that.

Amazon Prime.

Haven't watched that. How do I know that?

Yeah. So it was, like, three years ago. Chris Pratt.

That's right.

Yeah. It's a fiction. So I actually listened to the audiobook recently. So I got into this thing. I I kinda got into running last year, and I was looking for stuff to always listen to when I was running, and I I just started listening to Navy Seal books.

So like, they're incredible stories, then it make you feel like, oh,

they run the They're just talking to Navy Seal guy.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So Jocko. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And so there's all these books. A lot of these guys get out, and some of them have crazy stories, like the guy that killed Osama bin Laden. Mhmm. Like, they they write books.

But this was actually a fiction. The guy was a Navy SEAL, actually, and he got out and he wrote this fiction book about this story. And his story's actually amazing, how he got I mean, this was the first book this guy ever wrote. Became Amazon bestseller, and then Amazon picks it up and creates a series with Chris Pratt as a lead. So he kinda tells that story at the beginning of it, which is actually really interesting.

Yeah, so I listened to that book, and now I'm actually going back and watching the TV, you know, the series that they made.

Maybe that'll maybe that'll happen to this podcast, and Chris Pratt can play Andrew

Hearst. Yeah. If you're Chris Pratt, do you take Schwarzenegger as your last name, though? I do. That's pretty You know, like, I'm totally against you know, husband taking the introduction.

I'm like, it is.

That's pretty it's

pretty rock solid. Schwarzenegger's. Pretty freaking That's pretty

rock solid. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That's true. How about you guys?

What do you got? What do you got, Naveen?

Mine is mine's a little bit on the same vein as yours, But it's but it's specifically and my wife got me onto this is she's part of this book club. She's part of these like social networks. But one one of her things is book club.

And occasionally, I'll walk in on

her doing some chores listening to the book. So she always does like the audiobook version of just because obviously with kids, you're running around. And it's like listening to like gerbils on helium. Like it's so quick how she listens to it. And it's like on two x speed or something.

And I was like, how are you even taking in what you're listening to? She's like, you just it just becomes accustomed to it. And she's like, these are seven, eight hour audio books.

I can

just get through them in half the time.

And it

was just like, So everything I've been listening to recently is I'm like, I'm working my way up. Haven't quite

I'm 1.2 guy.

I'm a 1.5 now.

Jumping up

to I started at 1.2, then I was at 1.3, and then I felt a little bit risque and went, let's do 1.5.

And your wife walks into it. She's like, wuss. He's like, I'm sorry, dude.

Actually, she

was like, oh, wow. She's like,

that's the story of kid number three. The

end. Kid number three and four.

What? Double speed. That's right.

There we go.

But no. I I Is that how it works? The end. The end.

Well, no. So it obviously depends like podcast by podcast. So like listening to something heavy is is you can't do 1.5 x. But a sports podcast, 1.5 x. I'm like, okay.

Boom. I'm straight through it in like ten, fifteen minutes. So that's fine. What about you?

Mine's more seasonal. It's not like this big thing, but it's more seasonal. So obviously, I haven't golfed in like, oh, six or seven months.

Oh, it don't remind

us. Yeah.

And man, I am

Got the bug. Got the itch.

Itching to golf. But I found this hack. And this is like, you know, I just turned 40. And this is a hack I just found last year. There is no better Sunday, like, afternoon.

Like, I used to be like, Sunday afternoon, wanna wanna watch football, and I still like it. I I I am still a huge football fan. But, like, Sunday afternoon, you tour Saturday afternoon, one of those days, you turn on the tour for, like, PGA tour Yeah. For, like, two hours. First off, you're gonna see awesome golf.

So it's gonna kinda get the juices flowing, but you are guaranteed the best nap ever. I was gonna say, like, the best

Golf nap.

Nap in Freddo. Yeah. You wake up and you're like, oh my gosh. What happened? Like I feel amazing.

You feel amazing. There's no bones that hurt on you. Yeah. You just wake up feeling incredible. And what's awesome about it is like my my kids will come around me and they'll be like, well, why are we watching this stupid golf, dad?

Yeah.

And all of sudden everybody gets quiet.

Yeah. They chill out.

Everybody starts like mellowing out. And then slowly but surely everybody kinda starts falling asleep. Because the guys are like. And we have Rory McElroy in the eighteenth green team. Like, there's you can do.

These guys, like, just kinda, like, drift off. So I don't know if it's a dad hack. I don't know if it's a don't know what it is.

Trust me. Dads have been falling asleep to golf on Sundays for many, many years.

My dad's my dad's not a golfer, though. It was it was never I didn't even, like, knew was on. But, like Yeah. August is coming up in, what, a week, I

think, from now.

That's right. Yeah.

And, you know, so, like, you know, getting getting amped for it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You can naps coming up. That's a four day stretch of naps.

Well, I don't I I can't sleep during the night. Fridays.

You can still take a nap.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. But if I work on Thursday

I should. I should I should

do that.

Let's just start doing those.

Pop it on in the office and

just As long as golf's

on. No. No. No. No.

It's golf. It's golf. That's

Totally. That's great. Awesome stuff, guys. Awesome stuff. Alright, Matt.

Take us home.

Yeah. We look, guys. We're we're, look. We appreciate you guys jumping in today with us and listening. If you guys have any comments, as Andrew mentioned earlier, we'd love to hear from you guys.

If it's about our topic or something else that you wanna hear us discuss, send us a drop us a comment. Send us an email. We have an email at the what is our email? I don't even remember. Good question.

Yeah. The boardroom? That's it. So we got an email at the boardroom at where where is it on here?

Oh, wait.

I think it's I think it's I think I think if you wanna email us first off, it it's probably cooler to leave comments, but if you wanna do wanna email us There's nothing on it. Was like,

what what is this? If you

do wanna email us, it's I think it's the boardroom at chief dad officers dot com.

Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Theboardroom@chiefdadofficers.com.

I got you. Smooth, guys. Yeah. Thanks, guys. Alright.