The Modern Hotelier #265: Death of The Goodtime Hotel, Good Hotel Design, Hilton & Marriott Partnering with Independents, & More | March Hot Topics with Bashar Wali
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Steve Carran: Welcome to another episode of The Modern Hotelier Hospitality Hot Topics. This month we're gonna look back at what happened in March. And don't forget to follow, like, subscribe, and let us know in the comments what you thought about today's episode. Today we are joined by the number one social media influencer in the world, and CEO and founder of this assembly, Bashar Wali.
Bashar Wali: I'm a legend in my own mind. I'm glad you recognize it. Somebody finally does.
Steve Carran: We gotcha. We gotcha. So Bashar, we're gonna talk about what happened in March in hospitality, and we are going to kick it off with some of the big news this month was the government shutdown, how it affected travel, and then ICE came to help out in airports. You are one of the biggest travelers that I know. So I'm really curious to hear your take if you ran into many difficult situations at the airport and kind of what you think about all this.
Bashar Wali: Talking about March, we might need some shots this early in the morning 'cause man, what a show it was and continues to be. Personally, I look it, it's hard to use us sort of road warriors as a gauge 'cause we've got the pre and the global entry and the nexus and the clear. So generally speaking, I did not experience any delays. Part of the problem though, we forget about is the unintended consequences is a lot of the inexperienced travelers who don't know any better. When they hear this kind of news, they'll be inclined to say, honey, we shouldn't go. It's a shit show out there, blah, blah, blah. Maybe the Iranian drones might make it this way, but I think a lot of what we see the direct impact from is more hyperbole than actually anything on the West Coast. Generally speaking, no issues on the East Coast. I know Atlanta, three, four hour lines, but I show up, I go to the clear line and I'm literally in within five minutes. So, absolutely it had an effect. In fact, when we talk about what's happened with our industry this year, January was OnPlan, basically flat February, we saw a really nice kick and we were sort of starting to feel better. Then we get whacked in the face with geopolitical, with the government shutdown, and again. I would say 90% of it is hyperbole, not actual, but absolutely it has an impact, particularly on the leisure market. And the leisure market has been the loser in this equation, and we continue to see it being the loser, meaning the segment that's getting hit the most and now compounded by this news. That is definitely having an impact. So I would say the impact is here. The impact is real, and we'll continue to see it. And again, as you know when things course correct, even if the government opened again tomorrow, people still have the hangover from that news. So I am very concerned.
Steve Carran: Sure. David, what about you?
David Millili: Yeah, I mean, I wasn't as lucky as you. I was coming back from Hunter and I had the TSA pre-check clear was down, it was about 45 minutes to get through security. That was before I started going to the airports. I don't like the use of tax dollars to have people just stand around because it looked like that all people, that's all people were doing. And also it's created, and a couple people I know internationally, it's created this fear of, hey, when I come into the country, there's TSA issues, but then there's these ICE agents that are there, and so that fear factor, obviously we already have some issues globally with our reputation. I think it just adds another layer onto it.
Bashar Wali: David International Inbound, could not agree with you more. I was just traveling for the last month, literally across Europe, and there's this sentiment, this anti-US sentiment. There's this fear again of military on the streets and there's military at the airports. Do we really wanna go?
And it's not necessarily a principle thing where, oh, Trump is stocking trash, so we're not coming. It's actually practical, arguably defensible reasons for someone to be worried. The reality is, for our industry, that is terrible news. I don't know that as an industry we're doing enough to combat that bad news by saying it's totally fine.
I mean, honestly, shame on me, me included you guys too. When we're at airports, we need to be taking videos and say, it's totally fine, it's easy. And kind of put the word out there that it is not all, that don't believe everything you hear on the news. The other thing, Steve, I wanna mention about leisure for a minute is I got gas yesterday again, I live on the west coast.
It was six bucks. So your drive to destinations, so those who don't wanna fly for fear of all that nonsense, now can't drive 'cause gas is five bucks a gallon. So we are truly, leisure is getting punched in the face nonstop and we're paying the price, the industry is paying the price. And I don't see an end in sight, but I think if I have a message to any of us, hotel people, industry people, is preach the gospel, that things are good.
Gas I know is gas, you can't do anything about it. But outside of that, flying is fine. And by the way, I'm waiting to see because airlines hedge their fuel purchases in advance. Wait till that catches up, 'cause I'm buying one-way tickets for ungodly amounts of money in coach. So that's gonna be another factor that diminishes leisure travel, the elective, because remember, leisure by definition is elective.
Corporate is corporate. You have to go. Leisure is elective.
Steve Carran: Yep. Two kind of points on that was, companies like Switzerland and Germany are warning their citizens about traveling to the United States. That's the first time that's ever happened and…
Bashar Wali: That, by the way, that's total—
Steve Carran: That's crazy. And then, two, about the airline prices. I was looking for tickets to high tech from Denver to San Antonio. $800. That's not a long flight by any means. Yeah, buckle up for those airline prices.
David Millili: So we talk about this I feel like every month, there's always some sort of independent that's becoming part of a brand. So Hilton is adding Yotel to its Select by Hilton category. So we've got that going on. And then we've got Marriott who's partnering with Lafe for a wellness type of effect.
Steve, what again? We see it, what do you think about another independent, smaller brand, just being with one of the big guys?
Steve Carran: Yeah, funny on the Yotel side, we talked about the Select brand being launched a few months ago. So interesting to see that. Yotel is that first brand that's gonna be with the Select by Hilton brand. So pretty much, they're still gonna be independently run. Yotel is still gonna independently run itself, but they're gonna have the technology platforms and distribution along with Hilton.
We kinda see this with Marriott, Bonvoy, points and things like that. Independence helping or partnering with those big brands for the distribution and loyalty programs. Bahar, I know you have interesting thoughts on loyalty, so I'm gonna kick it off to you.
Bashar Wali: Oh boy. Cancel the rest of the show. I got this. I got this. So the hotel thing, I haven't done enough homework on yet. I don't know if it's a sort of a partnership for now to give them access to the Hilton system and the rewards, et cetera. Usually what that means is eventually they're teeing it up for an acquisition to be one of their brands.
That's generally what we've seen. You've seen Marriott with Citizen M. I think ultimately the brands have and continue to have a ferocious appetite to acquire those cooler, smaller brands that move faster, do things cooler. They're more willing to push the envelope that's not gonna go anywhere. And truth be told, as you've seen over the last decade, essentially there's been a vacuum that's sucked up all those brands.
There aren't many left today. If a big brand woke up today and said, we wanna buy an independent brand, there aren't many left. So I think what they're trying to do, because some brands aren't ready to sell, they'll sort of court them and say, we don't need to get married. Let's move in together and see how it goes.
But I think inevitably their goal is to absorb a mole under their umbrella, because Hilton does benefit from a partnership, but ultimately they're in the franchise business. They want those franchise fees, they want the marketing fees, they wanna grow their base. I wanna hate on it. I don't hate on the idea 'cause it gets you the distribution, it gets you the power of OTA pricing.
It does have a lot of benefits. The sad reality is the minute they get sucked in, as sure will let it operate on its own. Sure. They'll have their own team. Name one incident ever where that was said and actually delivered. Eventually the corporate machine and the bureaucracy can't help itself.
And there's a lot of territorial thing, right? Like fear someone at Hilton and Euro, that select service division, you want all the babies under your umbrella. You don't want some rogue baby on the side. So we'll watch and see. I think I've sort of now given up hope on this idea that independent truly can stay independent.
The question then is, what is the next crop of brands? That's what I'm more interested in. There's a lot of creative people. I get inbound calls all the time for people with great ideas, some not so great, but a lot of great ideas. The question I always ask is, I say, David, before you start a brand, you need to answer one of those two questions.
Are you fixing a problem that has not been fixed by the set brand? Or are you serving a segment of the market that has not been served or is severely underserved? And if the answer is no to either, like why do we need another brand? Like what does it mean? How is it different?
So I feel there's some innovation, and if I hear wellness one more time, and if I hear farm hotels one more time, and if I hear hushed hospitality one more time, we just throw these words around. When the fundamental offering is exactly the same and there's the problem of ubiquity now, like everything looks the same.
So on the Hilton piece and Yotel. I think that makes sense. Lafe, I don't know enough about them, and I think Marriott sort of obviously sees wellness being the future for the next five minutes until there's another new trend.
So smart on their part. Again, what that JV looks like. Is it truly a part? Because Bulgar hotels are part of Marriott, but nobody talks about it. So they're stood of left it alone. So will they leave it? Will they integrate it? Time will tell.
Steve Carran: Bashar, I'm interested in this next topic. A list just came out about hotels that are focusing on design and using their design to attract people to come in. The one that I'm excited about is White Elephant in Aspen, which is opening this summer. They have a few other properties.
Bashar, as somebody who travels and stays in as many hotels as you do, is there one hotel or a number of hotels that you've stayed at where the design has just absolutely blown you?
Bashar Wali: I think design has become ubiquitous. Good design, right? Generally speaking, I don't know anyone who says, honey, let's go away. Let's go stay at a really boring hotel. The problem with design is that it's very subjective. I may love something and you may hate it, and we forget that fact. Design to me is something that's pleasing to the eye, that's appealing to a broad range of people. It can be so narrow-focused, I don't know. Brutalism is a very narrow sort of design architecture, either love it or you don't love it. But I think hotels have a hard time being that specific in terms of design aesthetic because then they'll alienate a lot of people.
We've been saying this for the last 15 years, right? Design is important. I don't know what's new about what you just said. It's what we've all been saying. I think because people are more well-traveled and they're exposed to it more. Obviously, the internet and social media democratized good design. People know what good design is, no matter where they are now.
It is very subjective. Some of the places I love are really more dicentric around the person, not the place. For example, Martin Brzezinski is one of my favorite designers in New York. He has the Beekman, he has the Fifth Avenue and the Surrey. I love what he's done in London. I love his sensibility. Some people say, oh my God, it's Disneyland. We hate it 'cause it's maximalism. And if you like Scandinavian minimalism, you're not gonna like it.
I interviewed Reger a couple years ago and I said, what's the future of design? And he literally said, you know what? We've way overdone it. We need to back off a little, like enough already. We've way overdone it, back off a little. And I feel like we've become victims to this. More is more, and we keep throwing more and more. To me, good design is about thoughtfulness, intentionality, and it's about effortlessness. Don't let the design get in the way of the function of the room—form and function.
Now, I don't want all function, 'cause then I'll end up with a prison cell, all stainless steel wall, concrete floor that I can hose down. And for an operator, believe me, that's my dream. But then I also don't wanna be in a China shop or in a museum. A hotel room should not be precious. It should feel like it's lived in. I would focus more on quality too, 'cause a lot of this stuff we're seeing is poor quality.
So the short answer to your question: design absolutely matters. It will continue to matter. My biggest complaint today is I feel like we've gotten to the copy-paste era because, as I preach repeatedly, our industry is controlled by middle-aged white men in blue suits who think they have good taste and they don't.
There are some amazing designers out there. We hire them only to become yes men and women. So I stay outta Tom. I hire a designer. I say I love the Thompson that I stayed in in Nashville. Give me a Thompson in Chicago. What did they do? Copy-paste. Rather than saying, okay, designer, use this terminology. I say everybody's chasing the next thing, right? And by definition, if everybody's chasing the next thing, everybody's going to get to the next thing, and we'll all be there. We'll be like, oh crap, we're here. Now what? Let's go to the next thing. And everyone goes on the same path and ends up in the same place.
I love people who are looking for the other thing—how do we really rethink design? Again, there's a lot of talent, but the talent is being used to copy-paste, not to innovate. I love Martin Brzezinski. I love Firmdale Hotels. Again, people will tell you it's a hodgepodge of stuff. Kit Kemp out of the UK—brilliant. I think it's like you're a crazy rich aunt who traveled the world, collected a bunch of stuff that doesn't match, and put it on the wall, but it works for her.
I also like the addition by Maria. I'll admit it publicly. It's simple and clean for an operator. I would've never said, oh yeah, let's do beige everywhere, 'cause guests will do crazy things. But it works. It just depends. Yes, design is really important, and saying today that design is the driver—we've been saying that for 15 years.
Steve Carran: Fair enough. David, what are your thoughts on this?
David Millili: I don't have too much to add. For me, at this stage of my life, exactly what you said—I want the design to just make sense. I wanna be in beautiful places more than making sure that it's the crazy, funky type of hotel. But yet we always talk about it—it comes up a hundred times. The Lafayette in San Diego is one of those hotels where it doesn't make any sense how it works when you walk in there. You look at stuff, and it just works. You're just like, what? This just works.
And then, when you talk about the other part of the design element that has baffled me—these small hotel rooms with like a full kitchen in them. I was just at a property, I won't say the name, in a smaller town. I literally could have cooked eggs from the foot of my bed if I wanted to. It didn't make any sense to me. Why did I need like a six-burner stove and a full refrigerator? And it wasn't like it was stocked with stuff, or they didn't do a good job communicating to me. So anyway, when you talk about the design, the common-sense element too, I would've much rather had more room in that room than a six.
Bashar Wali: David. It's not thoughtful, right? The issue is it's just thrown there. Like I tell people, don't take a painting and throw it on the wall just because. Why is it there? What do you want it to do for me? The other thing on design is, I use this a lot, and I use this analogy about being in the theater business.
A beautiful theater is important to the theater experience, but that's not why I go to the theater. And part of, as you guys know, that I preach endlessly, till death—which I will continue to preach—is that the design should be conducive to allow me to have an experience. But the experience I'm having is with other people: with my friend David that I'm traveling with, or with John, the front desk person who I've had a conversation with, or with Steve, the bartender.
I think we lose sight. We keep saying we only wanna please your eyes. Your eyes are just one of your senses. Remember, scent is important. Music is important. Tactility, the way you touch whatever, is important. But ultimately, the most important one that I bring home with me is the connection, which is soulful. Design is important, but that's not what I'm taking home with me.
Now, I do preach this a lot. Once upon a time, hotels were inspirational and aspirational. They were inspirational because you learned about new design, new music, the mattress, da da da da, and they were aspirational 'cause you wanted your home to be like it. The problem today is our homes are far better than any hotel. So all of a sudden, they lost that ability to be inspirational and aspirational, where they were the bastions once upon a time.
How do you change that? You can't do it by copy-paste. By the way, I also preach that—I’m gonna trademark this stuff. I trademark things like crazy. I want more Shazam moments than Instagrammable moments.
When was the last time you walked into a hotel and thought, oh my God, the amazing song, let me Shazam it? Everybody's playing the same playlist because someone created a checklist that says, this is how you do a cool hotel, and here's what the playlist looks like. I want, I would love, I am dying for innovation.
Innovation doesn't mean putting the bed on the ceiling. I want to hear some Afro-Punk that I've never heard of before. Stop going to the same tried and true again—copy-paste. That's a problem. We'll continue the problem until we have owners that are brave enough to say, I don't know, and hire people that do know and actually listen to them.
David Millili: This one hurts, Steve. It was on our list of hotels that we wanted to film for The Modern Hotelier media side and our hotel experiences. So it's goodbye to the Goodtime Hotel. Sorry.
Steve Carran: Yeah, this one does hurt a little bit. For those that aren't familiar with the Goodtime Hotel, it was actually a partnership between Pharrell and David Grutman. Definitely was one of my bucket list hotels I wanted to visit, especially 'cause it started around the same time we did. It was one of those first hotels that I was like, oh my gosh, this would be perfect for The Modern Hotelier. Definitely a fun vibe. Bummed about it.
One of those hotels got bought up by a brand. Pharrell and David Grutman haven't really been involved since 2024. They ended up getting a $150 million foreclosure lawsuit against them. So Goodtime Hotel is gonna be gone pretty soon. Bashar, I know you stay in a lot of hotels. Have you stayed here?
Bashar Wali: I've stayed. It's fine. Just because there's a celebrity name attached to it—what the heck. Here's what I want. By the way, I was actually close to, may he rest in peace, having a meeting with Virgil Abloh about doing something together. The theory was, when I say Virgil Abloh, you immediately think, oh, it's gotta be Off-White, it's gotta be all these funky things, and that was not the intent.
The intent behind the meeting was to say, Virgil, you're a creative genius. What do you do to get inspired? Here's a blank canvas. Help me create this canvas—not Off-White, but what does your house look like? What meal did your grandmother cook that really gave you that nostalgic feeling that triggered creative thoughts in you—drink ritual, etc.?
Let's create that space. It wouldn't be the Off-White hotel. It would be a place that Virgil created where he would come to be inspired. The beauty of hotels, as for celebrities who want to be creative, is you can do a sleeping room, a living room, a spa, an office, a workout room, a drink, a meal—you can do it all. It covers a broad spectrum of offerings; doing one thing does not accomplish it.
So when you say Pharrell, what does that mean? What did Pharrell do? I couldn't tell you. I stayed there, I couldn't see anything. I knew he was involved, but if someone wasn't involved, you wouldn't know. Licensing deals where a celebrity sticks their name on something, to me, no offense, that's for the bridge and tunnel crowd. The true value of that kind of thing—we'll see right through it.
I would love to see a collaboration with a creative that takes them out of their field—acting, singing, dancing, or art—and say, come manifest that creative force and energy into creating a hotel. What does that look like? I don't think we've seen that before. You see it on a small scale, where a couple of artists go to a small place in Lia or something. I've seen it there, but not on scale.
Honestly, it shows that Miami is doing really well for that hotel. To have this kind of foreclosure means it was ill-conceived. They overspent on it, they didn't think about it, and at the end of the day, execution eats strategy for breakfast. Whatever their strategy was, they didn't execute. I could have told you what the outcome was gonna be. On your parade? It was fine. That's how I would describe it—the hotel was fine.
Steve Carran: Totally fine. You brought up Virgil. He went to the University of Wisconsin, so I'd like to think there would be some cheese curds and beer maybe incorporated in that hotel.
Bashar Wali: God, I hope not, but who knows?
Steve Carran: David, what do you think?
David Millili: I don't really have anything to say. It was on your list. I feel bad for you. You wanted to go to it. I spent a lot of time in Miami and, you know, like Bashar said, it's one of those things where there are so many overhyped properties. Then you go, and you're like, why was this $600 a night? Or, I just ate a $30 bagel—what the hell am I doing? So yeah, maybe we're better off, and we'll find something better for you, Steve.
Bashar Wali: I'll give you an example. I've stayed at Bulgari Hotels—Miami, Marriott. I've stayed in Shanghai, Milan, lots of places, Dubai. You walk in, and it's like Bulgari threw up and nobody cleaned it. There are cases everywhere that have Bulgari stuff: books, magazines, everything.
Two years ago, I took my wife to the Ello Hotel. Ello means red in Portuguese. It's an hour and a half south of Lisbon, near Comporta, in a village called Maldi. This hotel was done by Christian Louboutin—red bottom shoes. If you didn’t know, you'd be hard pressed to figure out they’re connected.
This was a creative genius in the fashion industry who decided to take his creativity and manifest it in a hotel without throwing his name, brand, shoes, or bags anywhere. To me, that’s the perfect execution of a creative, like the Virgil example I gave you. In fact, he and his husband wanted to build a house there and decided to make it this beautiful, fabulous place. I'm all about it. I’ll travel the world to see it.
Somebody sticking their name on a building—who cares? What does it mean? Right now, Pharrell is a creative genius, and maybe I’m misspeaking. Maybe he was involved in every fabric, every chair, every glass. I don’t think so. But if he were, I’d say great.
Even in that example, if the world doesn’t know about it and you’re not executing and delivering the service and creating the connection and memorable experience, I don’t care whose name is on it. If it doesn’t resonate, it doesn’t resonate—no matter how big a fan I am of that person.
Steve Carran: Well said. Bashar, you recently came out with an article talking about how size matters. You talked about how the hotel industry-built management companies optimize for platform growth. Can you tell us a little more about what you discussed in this article you recently came out with?
Bashar Wali: Look, I'll give you two angles to that story. One of them is on the hotel side. We continue to try to build hotels for perfect guests. I've never met a perfect guest in my life. I am not a perfect guest. They don’t exist. Sometimes there’s a mismatch of expectations. That doesn’t mean you build an imperfect hotel—think about your audience and build for them.
Similarly, with management companies: the management business is tough. It’s tough to make money, and that’s why consolidation happens—the big keep getting bigger. But management as a word—I talk about this in the article—is interesting.
Steve, you and your wife are trying to have a kid and you’re working on it—blood, sweat, tears, money, sleepless nights, emotional. Finally, you have a kid. It is the apple of your eye. Now you’re going out on the town with your wife one night. Do you want someone to manage your kid?
Think about that word—manage. You want someone to love, care for, nurture, and give your kid the best. Hotels done by passionate people—passionate developers, same thing—blood, sweat, tears, money, sleepless nights. I tell people, that doorknob you just used? Some guy spent three months arguing, fighting, and looking at a hundredth sample to get it just right.
Those who do it for passion don’t want someone to manage. They want someone to care as much as they do, nurture, thrive, and help. It’s become perceived as an institutional thing because many hotels aren’t that. Some developers say, “I have this piece of land. Yeah, a hotel makes sense. Build a West, let someone manage it.” Even in that case, I don’t like the word management. Those hotels can be big and institutional, but the handbuilt ones that want care need someone right-sized for it, someone who treats it like art, not an assembly line.
Checking people in, checking people out, doing P&L, cleaning a room—that’s part of the job. If you can’t do that, you shouldn’t be in the business. The qualifications aren’t rocket science. On the institutional front, you should do that. But the question is for the passion projects—you want to make money, yes, but you also want someone qualified.
We’ve seen the other side: artists with no science, scientists with no art. It’s about balance—someone who understands fundamentals. Back to the kid analogy: they need to be fed, go to bed at a certain time, but also, what book are you reading, what song are you singing, are you speaking a foreign language, taking them to the park or putting them in front of the TV? That’s the nuance I’m talking about.
It’s hard to make money. Small is really hard. People who build projects for passion get lost with size—they’re attracted to the scale. Size has advantages, like buying power. I use Hilton Supply Management, a Marriott vendor. But a company with 500 hotels doesn’t pay less than I do because it’s been democratized. One advantage: if your GM leaves unexpectedly, a big company can pluck someone instantly. I can’t. I have to babysit your hotel until there’s someone else.
Do you want a handmade custom suit, or a ready-to-wear custom suit? That’s the nuance. Systematically, we chase finance—it’s all about money. Bigger is easier. Built for scale, they keep growing. We saw with Abridge—they became the biggest and got punched in the face. Size matters, and it goes both ways.
If you build a run-of-the-mill beige hotel, providing just a commodity—a bed and a shower—there are a lot of great management companies out there. But if you want to create magic, there aren’t many. I challenge owners: if you’re building a passionate project, hire people who get it. That’s the only qualification. Basics—check people in, reports, compliance—but hire someone who gets it. Name five that would qualify. Not easy.
David Millili: Yeah, that’s a great point. That does it for The Modern Hotelier March Hospitality topics, Mr. Number One. This is where you let people know how they can find out more about you, your company, and where you’ll be speaking.
Bashar Wali: Can we talk politics? Can we talk about the Middle East? Come on, don’t leave me hanging. Always fun talking to you guys. I love this industry. I’m speaking everywhere. Unfortunately, I’ll be at Boston University in two weeks for their real estate symposium for the hospitality school—not my alma mater.
David and I will be at Independent Lodging Congress in Boston, also in a couple of weeks. I’m going to speak at Wharton, their first-ever hospitality conference—not my alma mater, not that smart—and lots of other places. The year is still young. I’m everywhere you want to be.
LinkedIn, obviously, I’m very active. Call out to your audience: please engage. Come on LinkedIn, tell me I’m full of shit. Argue with me. I know Steve does a great job of that. Let’s have a healthy debate. I promise no AI—you're getting me, and I respond to my own stuff. I love healthy debate and I want people to disagree.
I don’t want you to tell me it’s great. I want you to say, “Dude, this makes no sense. I disagree with you.” I love this healthy debate for our industry. I’m everywhere—LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, ChatGPT, Snapchat. You name it. Instagram—I like to say—light into my DMs, baby.
David Millili: I will vouch for your Instagram. It’s one of my favorites. That does it for another episode of The Modern Hotelier March: Hospitality Hot Topics. Whether you’re watching or listening, we appreciate you and hope to be with you again soon. Thank you for joining us.