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Learn how to build a better
sign and print shop from a few

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crusty sign guys who've made more
mistakes than they care to admit.

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Conversations and advice on
pricing, sales, marketing,

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workflow, growth, and more.

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You are listening to The Better Sign
Shop podcast with your hosts, Peter COIs,

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Michael O'Reilly, and Bryant Gillespie.

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Before we jump into the episode,
I'd like to give a shout out to

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our sponsor, GCI Digital Imaging
Grand Format Printer to the Trade.

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We talk a lot about outsourcing on the
podcast and the importance of having a.

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Good partners and gci Digital Imaging
is a good partner to have owner TJ

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bak and his team focus on providing
killer customer service just the

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way grandmother used to make it.

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If you're interested in learning
their approach to business, hop

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back into the archives to episode
nine where the guys and I interview

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TJ about customer experience.

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So if you're looking for a high quality
trade printer for banners, wraps,

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and other printed graphics that your
customers throw at you, check out

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GCI Digital imaging@printgci.com.

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Hi guys.

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Welcome back to the next edition
of the Better Sign Shop podcast.

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As always, I've got my colleague,
Peter Caris, the sign shop, Yoda

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H

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How are you being?

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What's going on?

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How are you?

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I'm good.

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I'm good.

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It's been a minute.

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Happy to be back.

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It

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has been a minute.

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I don't know where Mr.

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Sign Design Samurai is, but I
feel like he'll be popping in any

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moment now while we wait for him.

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Let's catch up for a
minute, Pete, how you been?

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Very busy.

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Very busy.

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Um, working on some projects, working
on growing sign shop businesses.

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We're working on developing.

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Honestly, the biggest development for
here today is I've been, I finally jumped

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on the chat, G p t train.

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I've been having fun
with it all Afternoon.

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The Apple iPhone just down just came
out with an app, or maybe recently, I

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don't know if it was just like today,
but I got, I was scrolling through

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my social media early this morning.

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My son jumped into my bed, woke me up
and, you know, he, he hands me my phone

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like almost as if I missed a call.

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I'm like, what are you doing?

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It's five 30 in the morning.

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Now you just woke me up
and he's sitting in my bed.

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We're watching cartoons this morning, and
I'm like scrolling through my social, my

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Twitter feed, and I come across this thing
that says Apple Chat, G P T, iPhone app.

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I'm like, all right, well that's cool.

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Download.

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I start, I download it.

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It was like 30 seconds
and it's on my phone.

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I'm like, what can this thing do?

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What can this thing do?

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Now, there's a lot of us.

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There's a lot of us
that have not used this.

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So this today, effectively today, which
you know is like May 19th in the morning.

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So when you're listening to this,
probably be like a couple of weeks

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ago listening to this and
this morning, and I'm like,

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all right, I'm gonna send some emails.

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I wanna see how good this thing can be.

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Ooh, scary man.

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So I go, the first thing that I do is
following up with a sign shop owner,

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letting them know that we need to
reschedule for next week, and that,

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I'm sorry, and there's like, uh, a.

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I suggested some dates.

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I typed out this like two sentence
thing and it gave me like three

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paragraphs worth of information,
and I'm like, this is the best

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well-written email I've ever had.

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Copy, paste, send it off to the owner
at like 5 30, 5 45 in the morning.

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Like, all right, what
else can this thing do?

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All right,

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let's send the, yeah, dude, don't
ruin, don't ruin the AI episode.

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So like two weeks from now, like
we're doing this AI episode, uh,

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and, and it's changed so much since
the last time that I was like, okay,

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here is why we need to do this.

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And it's blowing my mind, but I'll
give you one tip, like if you like the,

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if you're using that, do like, Use a
friendly but professional tone or like

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speak like you are talking to your
best friend or something like that.

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If you include that in the prompt,
it's like, it, it's, it blows me away.

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Like it's, it's virtually
indistinguishable from something

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that I would write, so.

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Well, no, I mean, I, I've got
like a little flavor that I add to

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everything.

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Well, I, I guess, I guess I don't
wanna take the win from ourselves

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on that upcoming episode, but
I was just blown away by this.

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I've been playing around with it all day.

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I've been walking around like, who
can I send some random message to?

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And I'm like, I, I, I've discovered
like how do you, I was just messing

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around with it and saying like, how
do you break up with your girlfriend?

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How do you tell your wife that you love

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her?

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Uh, I How do you quit a
job that you really enjoy?

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And it would, it, I mean,
it's like so amazing.

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It, it's blowing my mind.

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It's helped me, um, write articles,
blog articles for websites.

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It's helped me write product descriptions.

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I mean, again, don't want to take the
wind from the sales of that episode, but

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just don't do,

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it's mind blowing though.

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So that's, that's, that's, that's
what's on my mind here today.

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Well, cool.

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Yeah, I've, I've got like some things
I wanted to talk about, but I'm

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gonna wait until we get our guest on.

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Uh, today.

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I'm really excited for this.

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We had this guy on, on our shop management
software demo series, and we enjoyed that

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call so much that we said, Hey, let's
get him on to the podcast, because I

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think his story is, is pretty cool and
it's, I got like a lot of weird kind of

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experiences that, that you and I kind of
have of like, being in the industry as

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a, you know, an owner or manager or, or
working that side of it and then working

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on the software side of it as well.

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Uh, so happy to Welcome on
Joe Ella at uh, sign Tracker.

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I'm excited for this one.

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All right guys.

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Welcome back.

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We've got our guest, Joe
Ella from Sign Tracker.

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Joe, super excited to have you.

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Thanks for coming on.

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Well, thank you guys.

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I appreciate it.

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I'm excited too.

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Hopefully, uh, you know, hopefully I can,
you know, impart a little bit of wisdom.

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I don't know.

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We'll see.

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Yeah,

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I was, I was just telling Pete before
you jumped on that, like you've got

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kind of the, a little bit of the same
slice of the industry that we do.

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Mm-hmm.

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Like being on the, like, running a shop
for a long time, and then also being

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on the software side of it, actually
making software for sign makers.

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Yeah.

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So, yep.

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That's, that's me.

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Super, super interested
for the conversation,

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Pete.

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Well, thanks.

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Why, why don't you kick us off?

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Yeah.

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So I got a laundry list of
questions to ask you, so I'm

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gonna tee you up really nicely.

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Okay.

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And start you, and start
you with an easy one.

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All right.

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At what point did you

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realize and how more likely, how,
how did you realize that a software

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like Sign Tracker was needed in this

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industry?

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Well, how it really hit me at first was,
you know, I owned an electric sign shop,

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started it from scratch here in Austin,
Texas and owned it for over 10 years.

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And so I, you know, I, I
came from another sign shop.

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I actually, I have, my background
is not the sign industry at all.

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Like so many people.

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I stumbled into it, you know, I
actually answered an ad in a newspaper

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that said Mar uh, uh, 60 to $90,000
a year in, uh, marketing sales.

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It was a marketing sales job.

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And so I thought, okay, I
had nothing else going on.

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And um, I was in between, we
had just moved to Texas from

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California, my wife and I.

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And so, um, I answered the ad
in the paper and I went and it

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was this dumpy little sign shop.

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And I had no idea what it was all about.

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I didn't know anything about
science, but I took the job cause

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I had nothing else going on.

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Well, I went in there, these guys had.

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Zero organization.

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So I was, I didn't even
have a computer on my desk.

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Right?

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So this is back in 96 I think.

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And so we had one sh one shared computer.

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So I would stay there at night
building forms cuz I did own a

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small business in California.

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So I was sort of, you know, I like
to organize, you know, work, I like

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to organize people to get jobs done.

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So I would sit, sit there at night, build
forms just so my jobs would go through

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their shop a little bit more organized.

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After three months I was
like, ah, screw this.

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I'm out here.

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I'm gonna go start my own sun company.

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So, Ah, okay.

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And so, so that

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was the, that was the impetus of like,
you, were you just like, you were in

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their shop and you're like, Hey, these
guys aren't doing this right at all.

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And uh, just like, Hey,
I'm gonna go do this to

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myself now, or like Yep.

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So I, cuz I was, I was building like
all my own Excel and Word document

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forms to organize the workflow.

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I was trying to talk to the shop
foreman about, you know, setting up

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different, you know, uh, you know,
forms to help get different sign

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types through the shop and all that.

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So anyway, to fast forward, I broke off
from there three months into the sign

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industry and started Sytech International,
which is a clueless on how to even begin.

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But I did take, I did take one
of their head sales guys with me.

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So, and we were, you know, we were in
signs of the Times Magazine looking on

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the back, trying to find wholesalers,
you know, to build signs for us.

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But then it kind of, you
know, then it began, right?

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So we, we had a couple
of national accounts.

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We were using a wholesale,
local wholesale manufacturer to

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build all our assigns for us.

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And then I, again, I was building forms,
building systems, all Excel, all access.

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And then I started sending these
forms out, like work orders,

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survey, work orders, all this stuff.

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So sign shops all over the
country, customer sign off sheets.

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Once they installed the sign
for us instructions on how

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to do the completion photos.

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And so sign shops started saying,
Hey, where'd you get these forms?

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I made 'em, can I buy 'em?

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And that's the word started.

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So that was the begin.

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The birth of sign tracker,

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just like Excel and Microsoft Word forms

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pretty much.

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That's all it was.

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And then, and then I started
building like flow charts and org

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charts and I mean, all you know.

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Then I, I actually packaged it all
together with like employee handbooks

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and safety manuals and all this.

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And then started, I think I was
telling you guys earlier, the first

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00:10:44,655 --> 00:10:48,765
iteration of Sign Tracker was a
disc, an 80 page training manual.

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00:10:49,215 --> 00:10:52,245
The disc was pretty much just
all Excel, Excel-based word.

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Documents and this printed
manual I'D stuff it in a box

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and sold them for two grand.

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So, and I sold 600 of 'em,
went, sold like 600 of 'em.

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And, uh, but it looked like I was
saying earlier, you know, within

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00:11:06,900 --> 00:11:10,290
a few months I was getting phone
calls constantly, like, Hey Joe.

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And it was all like, how do I use Excel?

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Not how do I use the forms or whatever.

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So anyway.

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Mm.

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Uh, but I did that, I did it for a
few years and then sort of pulled

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back and focused on my own business.

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And after I sold my sign shop, then I,
that's when I started trying to think

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00:11:25,950 --> 00:11:29,880
about how to, you know, do sign tracker
full-time and make it a real software.

238
00:11:31,605 --> 00:11:31,785
So

239
00:11:31,785 --> 00:11:35,055
what was the, like, what was
the next iteration, right?

240
00:11:35,055 --> 00:11:36,345
We've got the CD ROMs.

241
00:11:36,345 --> 00:11:36,405
Yeah.

242
00:11:36,795 --> 00:11:39,015
Like the, the America Online.

243
00:11:39,915 --> 00:11:41,445
Like, here's the packet for this.

244
00:11:41,445 --> 00:11:44,655
Like what was, what
was the next iteration?

245
00:11:45,015 --> 00:11:45,375
Well,

246
00:11:45,380 --> 00:11:49,605
when I, when I, what happened
was I, our sign shop, um,

247
00:11:50,185 --> 00:11:51,555
we were really lucky, right?

248
00:11:51,555 --> 00:11:53,025
Like we were in a great spot.

249
00:11:53,025 --> 00:11:54,705
I was here in Austin, Texas.

250
00:11:55,485 --> 00:11:58,515
It was going through a big growth phase,
which actually, technically, I don't

251
00:11:58,515 --> 00:12:00,015
know if that's ever ended actually.

252
00:12:00,015 --> 00:12:00,615
Austin's still

253
00:12:00,615 --> 00:12:04,185
born No, no, I was gonna say, yeah,
but you were in before that it was like

254
00:12:04,185 --> 00:12:05,715
too expensive to actually buy a house.

255
00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:05,865
Don't,

256
00:12:06,405 --> 00:12:06,885
yeah.

257
00:12:06,890 --> 00:12:08,205
Now it's, yeah, it's ridiculous.

258
00:12:08,205 --> 00:12:09,085
Uh, so.

259
00:12:10,050 --> 00:12:13,560
What happened was, um, I pulled
back, you know, I pulled back on,

260
00:12:13,650 --> 00:12:17,580
on sign tracker and you know, the
business was really blowing up.

261
00:12:17,580 --> 00:12:22,560
We were doing massive, you know,
rollouts for, um, you know, national

262
00:12:22,565 --> 00:12:24,150
chains and restaurants and all that.

263
00:12:24,420 --> 00:12:27,330
We were doing, we were in the middle of
doing the Dallas Cowboy Stadium project.

264
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,030
They were, when they were building
their new stadium back then,

265
00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,960
plus we were the go-to company in
Austin for pylon signs and fin.

266
00:12:33,990 --> 00:12:35,730
And so we were just really busy.

267
00:12:35,730 --> 00:12:41,520
We had 60 employees and, but it was in
2008, you know, when the economy really

268
00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:45,480
started going down and all of a, all of
a sudden, oh my gosh, it was terrible.

269
00:12:45,540 --> 00:12:50,580
You know, and a lot of big sign shops
kind of tanked during that time,

270
00:12:50,580 --> 00:12:52,140
like really big electric sign shops.

271
00:12:52,140 --> 00:12:53,190
They were just going down, you know.

272
00:12:53,190 --> 00:12:59,520
But right before that happened, somehow
this company, they wanted to start a

273
00:12:59,525 --> 00:13:04,400
sign shop, and they were like a 300
million electrical contracting company.

274
00:13:05,450 --> 00:13:11,055
And so they were searching for software
on, you know, how to manage a sign shop.

275
00:13:11,385 --> 00:13:13,275
And they, cuz they did
service work, right?

276
00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,345
They did electrical
service, electrical install.

277
00:13:15,345 --> 00:13:19,765
They did 25 million a year and just
sign repairs all over US and Canada.

278
00:13:19,765 --> 00:13:20,005
Oh wow.

279
00:13:20,265 --> 00:13:23,595
So they thought surely if we
had a sign shop, these repair

280
00:13:23,595 --> 00:13:25,455
customers would buy signs from us.

281
00:13:26,025 --> 00:13:30,255
And so, uh, somehow I thought I had
pulled everything off the interwebs,

282
00:13:30,255 --> 00:13:33,405
you know, but somehow they still
found this sign tracker thing.

283
00:13:33,735 --> 00:13:33,825
Mm-hmm.

284
00:13:34,070 --> 00:13:37,755
So they, they called me and
they said, Hey, if we sign, how

285
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:39,135
do you use this in your shop?

286
00:13:39,140 --> 00:13:42,405
I said, well look, if you sign an nda,
you come to my shop, I'll, I'll give you

287
00:13:42,405 --> 00:13:44,175
a tour of the shop and I'll show you.

288
00:13:44,415 --> 00:13:47,175
I still have some of these things if
you guys want it, you know, it's fine.

289
00:13:47,655 --> 00:13:51,825
And so they came to the shop and
what happened was, at the same

290
00:13:51,825 --> 00:13:55,635
time our, the banks were like
cutting our lines of credit.

291
00:13:55,665 --> 00:13:58,605
I mean, it was crazy what
was going on in 2008.

292
00:13:58,605 --> 00:13:59,536
I don't know if you guys were.

293
00:14:00,195 --> 00:14:02,355
You guys are young, so May maybe you
weren't in the same business then.

294
00:14:02,355 --> 00:14:02,685
Well, I,

295
00:14:03,105 --> 00:14:06,255
I think that was Pete's Was that like
your first year in business, Pete?

296
00:14:06,855 --> 00:14:07,245
Second

297
00:14:07,245 --> 00:14:07,545
year.

298
00:14:07,845 --> 00:14:08,355
Second year.

299
00:14:08,355 --> 00:14:08,985
And you survived.

300
00:14:09,915 --> 00:14:10,455
Good for you.

301
00:14:10,665 --> 00:14:15,795
It was tough and, um, I mean, what
happened was they, uh, you know,

302
00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,845
they came and toured the shop and at
that time, you know, like I said, we

303
00:14:18,845 --> 00:14:20,535
were doing the Dallas Cowboy Stadium.

304
00:14:20,535 --> 00:14:22,515
We had tons of signs.

305
00:14:22,515 --> 00:14:23,325
Everything was going on.

306
00:14:23,325 --> 00:14:26,445
We were, we were doing a ton of
stuff and they were like a deer

307
00:14:26,445 --> 00:14:27,225
in the headlights, you know.

308
00:14:27,225 --> 00:14:30,675
So I get back into my, my office,
I'm showing them how to use this

309
00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:32,325
Excel version of Sign Tracker.

310
00:14:32,475 --> 00:14:35,865
And halfway through the presentation,
the c e o of the company just stops

311
00:14:35,865 --> 00:14:37,875
and puts his hand on my shoulder
and says, okay, we've seen enough.

312
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:39,465
How about if we just buy everything?

313
00:14:39,735 --> 00:14:43,425
And I went like, oh, well it's two grand
for the disk if you want it, that's you.

314
00:14:47,715 --> 00:14:50,175
And he was like, no, listen kid,
we want, we're just gonna buy your,

315
00:14:50,180 --> 00:14:51,435
we wanna buy your whole company.

316
00:14:51,855 --> 00:14:52,875
And so, oh wow.

317
00:14:53,235 --> 00:14:57,525
And so, yeah, so I, within a
few months, uh, buy October,

318
00:14:57,525 --> 00:14:59,355
2008, they gave me a check and.

319
00:14:59,780 --> 00:15:00,495
I worked for them.

320
00:15:00,495 --> 00:15:04,725
And from 2008 to March of 2009,
the company went from, you know,

321
00:15:04,785 --> 00:15:06,944
between 10, 11 million to 4 million.

322
00:15:08,235 --> 00:15:10,005
It was pretty awful.

323
00:15:10,095 --> 00:15:12,105
I mean, it, it was awful.

324
00:15:12,110 --> 00:15:13,575
And so, was there a lot

325
00:15:13,575 --> 00:15:15,705
of blowback on you because of it?

326
00:15:15,705 --> 00:15:15,725
Oh yeah.

327
00:15:16,075 --> 00:15:16,365
Yeah.

328
00:15:16,694 --> 00:15:16,967
There was a lot.

329
00:15:16,972 --> 00:15:21,944
Like, I mean, yeah, there
was, uh, and, and you know,

330
00:15:21,944 --> 00:15:22,845
I don't not blame 'em, right?

331
00:15:22,845 --> 00:15:28,245
Like they, they spent a lot of money,
you know, and so, and I, I had an

332
00:15:28,245 --> 00:15:31,305
employment agreement with them for five
years, but after a year I was like,

333
00:15:31,305 --> 00:15:32,475
Hey, why don't you buy me out of this?

334
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,015
So they gave me a, you know,
a few bucks and, and my pickup

335
00:15:36,020 --> 00:15:37,545
truck and kicked me down the road.

336
00:15:37,550 --> 00:15:40,845
But I had a business partner too, and he
had little ones and so he stayed there.

337
00:15:41,055 --> 00:15:46,425
So I left with my, you know, pretty
much the deal was I didn't have to

338
00:15:46,425 --> 00:15:48,105
have an NDA or whatever, so I left.

339
00:15:48,585 --> 00:15:51,705
And that's when I started the ne I
said, okay, let's see if I can breathe

340
00:15:51,855 --> 00:15:53,805
life back into this sign tracker thing.

341
00:15:54,255 --> 00:16:00,060
And so I had, um, I had hired a
software development company to help me.

342
00:16:00,690 --> 00:16:06,150
And, uh, after spending, I mean, it's
almost embarrassing to say this cuz I

343
00:16:06,155 --> 00:16:09,450
didn't really know what I was doing,
but I spent like 150 grand pretty quick.

344
00:16:09,750 --> 00:16:12,390
And, and in today's day with
software development, that's nothing.

345
00:16:12,395 --> 00:16:12,630
Right?

346
00:16:12,630 --> 00:16:17,250
But back then, you know, my and my
wife, she was, she put the kibosh

347
00:16:17,250 --> 00:16:21,360
on that, you know, she's like,
you, you need to go get a job.

348
00:16:21,420 --> 00:16:24,000
This is this little sign
tracker thing is you're done.

349
00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,410
And um, so right before I just
scrapped the whole thing, I went

350
00:16:28,415 --> 00:16:32,160
to a south by Southwest, cuz
here that happens in Austin.

351
00:16:32,340 --> 00:16:37,350
So I went to a seminar on, uh, how
to build software as a service.

352
00:16:37,860 --> 00:16:41,460
And so I go to this thing and I'm sitting
in there and it's the guy that had

353
00:16:41,465 --> 00:16:43,710
founded Fresh Books that's given the talk.

354
00:16:44,030 --> 00:16:44,700
Oh, okay.

355
00:16:44,705 --> 00:16:46,290
And, and so really cool dude.

356
00:16:46,290 --> 00:16:48,450
I ended up talking to him afterwards
for a while and he would just

357
00:16:48,450 --> 00:16:51,600
said to me, he goes, Joe, look,
He goes, right now you have, you

358
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:52,890
have a hundred percent of nothing.

359
00:16:53,670 --> 00:16:55,830
He goes, so why don't you find
a couple of developer guys?

360
00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:56,400
So what?

361
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,010
Give up half the company, at least
you'll have half of something.

362
00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,090
So I found a couple of
developers and we've been in

363
00:17:03,090 --> 00:17:04,140
business together ever since.

364
00:17:04,140 --> 00:17:04,980
They're great guys.

365
00:17:04,980 --> 00:17:10,380
And we all kept, I went back to work in
the sign industry and uh, and we just

366
00:17:10,380 --> 00:17:14,910
slowly but surely started developing
sign tracker just as a side project.

367
00:17:14,940 --> 00:17:16,770
And then about five years
ago we went full-time.

368
00:17:16,890 --> 00:17:18,870
So that's the sign tracker story.

369
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:19,950
Fascinating.

370
00:17:20,100 --> 00:17:22,170
Absolutely stunning and fascinating.

371
00:17:22,170 --> 00:17:25,890
I, I, second question from me
before, I'll, I'm gonna be selfish

372
00:17:26,310 --> 00:17:28,560
and ask two before Brian asks one.

373
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:29,070
Okay.

374
00:17:29,070 --> 00:17:29,071
Okay.

375
00:17:29,460 --> 00:17:33,750
To this day, what is your
favorite feature about

376
00:17:33,750 --> 00:17:34,380
Sign Tracker?

377
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,130
I would say I really
like the job flow board.

378
00:17:38,220 --> 00:17:41,490
I like the visual, which I know, you
know, Trello and there's a lot of

379
00:17:41,495 --> 00:17:45,195
different job flow boards out there,
but I, I think, um, For me, I really

380
00:17:45,195 --> 00:17:49,545
like the job flow board, the ability
to visually organize all my jobs.

381
00:17:49,965 --> 00:17:55,815
Uh, and then, you know, obviously when
you click into a job card, uh, it's

382
00:17:55,815 --> 00:18:00,615
being able to have everything like
an electronic job folder, be able to

383
00:18:00,620 --> 00:18:04,245
do everything and have everything in
one place rather than piles of paper

384
00:18:04,245 --> 00:18:05,985
and whiteboards and all that stuff.

385
00:18:05,985 --> 00:18:09,735
So I think, yeah, just having the jobs
in one place visually where you can

386
00:18:09,735 --> 00:18:11,565
see them all is probably my favorite.

387
00:18:12,225 --> 00:18:12,645
I bet you

388
00:18:12,650 --> 00:18:16,455
half of our listeners right now, if
not the majority of them, are probably

389
00:18:16,455 --> 00:18:22,335
like, yep, that's ama, that's such a
simple feature and thank you so much for

390
00:18:22,815 --> 00:18:25,335
creating that and simplifying our lives.

391
00:18:25,965 --> 00:18:28,725
Ah, this is a, this is the bread
and butter, like the job flow.

392
00:18:28,730 --> 00:18:30,885
Like, if you can't get that right, Yeah.

393
00:18:31,155 --> 00:18:31,335
Hey.

394
00:18:31,335 --> 00:18:35,294
Like, you know, like the rest of it is
just a, a nightmare to deal with anyway.

395
00:18:35,835 --> 00:18:35,955
Yeah.

396
00:18:35,955 --> 00:18:38,115
And that's, that's kind of what struck me.

397
00:18:38,115 --> 00:18:42,165
Like, uh, before we had you on,
we were talking about, we had you

398
00:18:42,195 --> 00:18:45,915
do the shop management software
demo series with us and mm-hmm.

399
00:18:46,245 --> 00:18:51,915
You know, we walked away from that
impressed of just like, h how close it

400
00:18:51,915 --> 00:18:54,345
was to the, how a assigned person thinks.

401
00:18:54,435 --> 00:18:54,524
Mm-hmm.

402
00:18:54,770 --> 00:18:57,885
And like you, just the way that
you structured sign tracker, uh,

403
00:18:57,885 --> 00:19:02,534
of just having like, here's the
board, like everything starts here,

404
00:19:02,534 --> 00:19:04,355
ends up over there and it's mm-hmm.

405
00:19:04,935 --> 00:19:08,955
Like, it just fits the mental model
for, I, I think a ton of side guys.

406
00:19:09,284 --> 00:19:09,465
Yeah.

407
00:19:09,465 --> 00:19:09,645
And

408
00:19:09,645 --> 00:19:10,125
gals.

409
00:19:10,395 --> 00:19:11,445
Yeah, for sure.

410
00:19:11,985 --> 00:19:12,225
Yeah.

411
00:19:12,225 --> 00:19:15,585
And then, and then to be able
to, you know, at any point click

412
00:19:15,590 --> 00:19:19,365
into one of those cards on the
board and have everything there.

413
00:19:19,365 --> 00:19:22,335
I mean, I, I don't know, you know, in
your shop when you were in a shop, but

414
00:19:22,575 --> 00:19:26,274
you know, back in the nineties and two
thousands, everything was a paper folder.

415
00:19:27,060 --> 00:19:31,560
And I, I, I swear we spent half of our
project management time searching for

416
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:33,150
like, where the hell is that permit?

417
00:19:33,150 --> 00:19:36,450
Where, you know, and it's, it's so
nice to have everything in one place.

418
00:19:36,540 --> 00:19:36,930
For sure.

419
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:39,420
Be excellent.

420
00:19:39,450 --> 00:19:39,900
Excellent.

421
00:19:41,130 --> 00:19:42,000
You got another one, Peter,

422
00:19:42,005 --> 00:19:42,330
or no?

423
00:19:42,330 --> 00:19:42,630
You're good.

424
00:19:42,690 --> 00:19:45,090
Oh, I got, I got, I got so many more.

425
00:19:45,810 --> 00:19:46,081
So many more.

426
00:19:46,710 --> 00:19:48,090
I just want, I don't wanna be rude.

427
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,520
I don't wanna take the
win from your sales.

428
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:50,820
Uh,

429
00:19:51,270 --> 00:19:57,570
so I like, my question would probably
be on the sign tracker side, like what

430
00:19:57,570 --> 00:20:02,370
were the biggest takeaways from like
your days of running the sign shop that

431
00:20:02,370 --> 00:20:04,410
you incorporated into sign tracker?

432
00:20:05,190 --> 00:20:09,060
Like, do do, is that like a conscious
thing that you were, or, or was

433
00:20:09,060 --> 00:20:13,110
it just like a, a, an unconscious
thing of like, Hey, I'm building

434
00:20:13,110 --> 00:20:14,460
the software that I would want?

435
00:20:14,940 --> 00:20:18,180
Yeah, I was originally,
that was the thing, right?

436
00:20:18,180 --> 00:20:22,170
So originally when I started and before
I brought, you know, before I joined,

437
00:20:22,590 --> 00:20:27,150
uh, you know, brought on a couple of
partners and all that, I had this whole

438
00:20:27,150 --> 00:20:32,340
thing designed out, you know, in, I mean
all the ui, all the stuff, you know,

439
00:20:32,340 --> 00:20:36,450
I, because I'm a very visual person
and originally it was my thought was,

440
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,260
oh, every single detail of how I ran
my shop is gonna go into sign tracker.

441
00:20:40,290 --> 00:20:46,740
And I am actually so thankful that
we had no money because, because if

442
00:20:46,740 --> 00:20:50,580
I had developed that, it would've
been a great application for a very

443
00:20:50,585 --> 00:20:52,139
small slice of the sign industry.

444
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,500
Cuz, I mean, think about running
a 10 million electric sign shop.

445
00:20:56,100 --> 00:20:57,840
There's not a lot of those out there.

446
00:20:58,110 --> 00:21:00,030
So it would've been way overdeveloped.

447
00:21:00,419 --> 00:21:04,679
For your average sign shop
that has three to 10 people.

448
00:21:04,949 --> 00:21:10,169
So for me, you know what's been
amazing is seeing, cuz I just in my

449
00:21:10,169 --> 00:21:15,000
mind had, you know, you, you start,
you grow, you run a shop this way.

450
00:21:15,570 --> 00:21:18,790
Um, and to be able to see all the
different creative ways that people

451
00:21:18,810 --> 00:21:20,580
make a living in this business, right?

452
00:21:20,580 --> 00:21:21,570
And run businesses.

453
00:21:21,570 --> 00:21:22,409
And build teams.

454
00:21:22,740 --> 00:21:25,530
And so I have, we, you know,
thankfully because we have done it

455
00:21:25,530 --> 00:21:27,300
slow, we were able to keep it simple.

456
00:21:27,300 --> 00:21:30,810
Not overdevelop it, it doesn't have
all these buttons that take you

457
00:21:30,814 --> 00:21:33,090
to nowhere and that you never use.

458
00:21:33,090 --> 00:21:37,199
And so I'm grateful for that actually,
that it's, that I was able to see

459
00:21:37,199 --> 00:21:39,870
that there's a simpler way to do
things other than just the way I

460
00:21:39,870 --> 00:21:41,610
thought they needed to be done.

461
00:21:41,669 --> 00:21:43,199
But my experience helps a lot too.

462
00:21:43,199 --> 00:21:47,100
Like, I mean, the, the business needed
a, an industry expert to the product

463
00:21:47,100 --> 00:21:50,639
needed an industry expert to, to be
able to develop it correctly too.

464
00:21:50,639 --> 00:21:52,545
So, Yeah.

465
00:21:53,695 --> 00:21:58,125
And, and all my time spent at the
competitor, uh, we won't name them

466
00:21:58,125 --> 00:22:02,985
on this one, but, uh, that was my
experience as well of like, you know,

467
00:22:03,135 --> 00:22:07,275
you have to have people that come
from the industry to sell and support

468
00:22:07,545 --> 00:22:10,355
software that you're selling to the
industry, because if you don't mm-hmm.

469
00:22:10,785 --> 00:22:12,555
It's, it's just a nightmare.

470
00:22:12,895 --> 00:22:14,155
Um, because there's mm-hmm.

471
00:22:14,375 --> 00:22:17,835
It, it's not really selling the
software, like the software sells itself.

472
00:22:18,215 --> 00:22:18,635
Mm-hmm.

473
00:22:18,795 --> 00:22:20,515
It's more in on the support side.

474
00:22:20,575 --> 00:22:20,995
Mm-hmm.

475
00:22:21,075 --> 00:22:25,455
And if you can't speak the lingo, if
you don't understand the challenges

476
00:22:25,455 --> 00:22:29,835
of a shop owner, it's, it's, it is
very difficult being in this market.

477
00:22:30,495 --> 00:22:30,585
Mm-hmm.

478
00:22:31,305 --> 00:22:31,875
It is.

479
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,325
And, and, um, and I, and I, and
I love that part of the business.

480
00:22:35,325 --> 00:22:39,465
You know, I, I haven't, um, my last
sign shop, my daughter and my son-in-law

481
00:22:39,465 --> 00:22:43,365
took it over, you know, and um, so
I haven't worked in a sign shop in

482
00:22:43,365 --> 00:22:46,875
close to five years now, but I still
feel like I do, cuz I'm helping solve

483
00:22:46,875 --> 00:22:50,415
problems every single day talking
to folks and our support person.

484
00:22:50,774 --> 00:22:53,294
Our main support person that helps me.

485
00:22:53,325 --> 00:22:56,264
She was a project manager at my last shop.

486
00:22:56,745 --> 00:23:01,155
Uh, and then one of our developers
actually grew up in a sign shop and

487
00:23:01,155 --> 00:23:04,455
then owned his own sign shop for three
years before he, you know, went back

488
00:23:04,455 --> 00:23:05,804
to school and became a developer.

489
00:23:05,804 --> 00:23:09,044
So it's kind of nice that three of us
and then my other two main business

490
00:23:09,050 --> 00:23:12,345
partners, they've been in it now so
long, like they know all the lingo

491
00:23:12,405 --> 00:23:15,705
they've, they've had to listen to,
you know, talk to sign folks constant,

492
00:23:15,885 --> 00:23:17,264
and listen to me constantly, you know.

493
00:23:17,264 --> 00:23:20,804
So what does the, what does the

494
00:23:20,804 --> 00:23:21,915
support team at Sign

495
00:23:21,919 --> 00:23:22,995
Tracker look like right now?

496
00:23:23,940 --> 00:23:25,950
So right now it's me.

497
00:23:26,220 --> 00:23:30,630
And then I have, um, we have a full-time
support person, Brooke, and both of

498
00:23:30,630 --> 00:23:34,560
us, you know, pretty much we, you
know, we have a, an internal chat tool.

499
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,730
Our response time on that is
anywhere from three to five minutes.

500
00:23:38,735 --> 00:23:40,830
So we're, we're on it, you
know, we just live in it.

501
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:45,390
And, uh, and then also both of the
development partners that are here

502
00:23:45,390 --> 00:23:47,550
in the us, they're in, uh, Reno.

503
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:49,920
They also, uh, will monitor that.

504
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:55,050
So when it comes to, when it comes
to like the first level of support,

505
00:23:55,050 --> 00:23:56,580
like, oh, I forgot my password.

506
00:23:56,610 --> 00:24:00,060
Oh, you know, and some basic
functionality questions, Brooke

507
00:24:00,300 --> 00:24:01,380
and I, you know, take care of that.

508
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,970
And then if it gets into like, Hey,
I imported, you know, the wrong.

509
00:24:06,330 --> 00:24:08,280
Spreadsheet with all my customers names.

510
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,100
So Ben, we'll bring in one of the
developers to be able to get all

511
00:24:11,100 --> 00:24:12,570
that outta the database and reimport.

512
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,750
So it just depends on the tier,
but so, but there's four of us

513
00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:17,370
that are actively monitoring it.

514
00:24:17,375 --> 00:24:21,810
We, the other junior developer that we
have actually lives in Brazil, and so he's

515
00:24:21,810 --> 00:24:22,950
the one that grew up in the sign shop.

516
00:24:22,950 --> 00:24:27,120
So he is, um, he develops, he doesn't
really get too much involved in support.

517
00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:28,320
He's just mostly developing.

518
00:24:28,325 --> 00:24:32,370
So there's four of us that are pretty
active in support and, and sign

519
00:24:32,375 --> 00:24:33,030
tracker's.

520
00:24:33,030 --> 00:24:36,899
Current, uh, employee count
is up to, uh, what now?

521
00:24:37,050 --> 00:24:38,100
I'm sorry about employee count,

522
00:24:38,100 --> 00:24:40,080
a customer count, excuse
me, customer count.

523
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:41,940
But we, we have uh, around 500.

524
00:24:41,945 --> 00:24:43,590
So we're just a smidge
under 500 right now.

525
00:24:44,310 --> 00:24:45,480
500 customers?

526
00:24:45,540 --> 00:24:45,750
Yep.

527
00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:47,129
505 red and shops?

528
00:24:47,129 --> 00:24:47,399
Yep.

529
00:24:47,730 --> 00:24:48,750
500 shops.

530
00:24:48,780 --> 00:24:49,169
Got it.

531
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:49,560
Got it.

532
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:54,840
So as a follow up to that, what
is your plan to attract your next

533
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:55,590
500 owners?

534
00:24:56,909 --> 00:25:00,270
So we, you know, Ooh, good question.

535
00:25:00,270 --> 00:25:01,740
No, it's a, it's a, it is a good question.

536
00:25:01,740 --> 00:25:02,399
It's a great question.

537
00:25:02,700 --> 00:25:07,050
Um, and, and we're, we're, you know, how
do you get traction in marketing, right?

538
00:25:07,050 --> 00:25:12,060
So I will readily admit
that I am a shake your hand.

539
00:25:12,300 --> 00:25:13,220
Let's go out to lunch.

540
00:25:14,129 --> 00:25:18,000
Uh, let me come to your office and give
a presentation and tell you stories

541
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,649
around the sign projects we did.

542
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:24,210
So I'm a very high touch
sales approach kind of a guy.

543
00:25:24,450 --> 00:25:29,100
And then, then you have this online
product where, you know, it's, I

544
00:25:29,105 --> 00:25:33,149
mean, not that you still don't want
to give people a sense of that you're

545
00:25:33,149 --> 00:25:35,940
in tune to them and all that stuff,
but it's, it's a lower touch, right?

546
00:25:35,940 --> 00:25:38,310
Like, how do you fill that
top end of the funnel?

547
00:25:38,700 --> 00:25:40,379
It's been a, it's been a challenge.

548
00:25:40,379 --> 00:25:42,899
You know, for me it has been a little
challenge and, but I'm learning,

549
00:25:42,899 --> 00:25:44,280
you know, old dog new tricks.

550
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:50,040
So I think you guys know, we started,
uh, behind the signs, and originally

551
00:25:50,045 --> 00:25:53,101
we started the behind the science
group on Facebook, kind of as a.

552
00:25:53,865 --> 00:25:57,795
Alternative to a few of the other big
sign groups that were on Facebook,

553
00:25:57,855 --> 00:26:01,605
that there's some great stuff on those,
but really wanted to kind of focus

554
00:26:01,605 --> 00:26:05,745
on one that was kind of elevating
the sign industry together, right?

555
00:26:05,745 --> 00:26:07,095
Where people could support each other.

556
00:26:07,185 --> 00:26:12,245
So behind the Signs has been a place
where sign shops can come and support.

557
00:26:12,645 --> 00:26:17,235
We're offering, you know, hopefully
content that's, that's helpful to them.

558
00:26:17,415 --> 00:26:20,415
Business development content, I mean,
nothing to the extent that you guys

559
00:26:20,415 --> 00:26:24,435
are doing with applications and stuff,
but that is having a, and people are

560
00:26:24,435 --> 00:26:28,425
starting to associate that group with,
Hey, look at all this stuff that the

561
00:26:28,430 --> 00:26:33,615
Sign Tracker folks are giving us and
providing for us and not charging us.

562
00:26:33,915 --> 00:26:38,055
And so slowly but surely we're
seeing our top end funnel increase.

563
00:26:38,055 --> 00:26:41,625
We're seeing, um, trials
increase, conversions increase.

564
00:26:42,015 --> 00:26:44,955
So I think we're gonna double down
on behind the signs and just keep

565
00:26:44,955 --> 00:26:48,375
trying to put out really positive,
helpful content to the industry.

566
00:26:48,765 --> 00:26:52,545
And we really feel that that's gonna
get us to our next 500 customers.

567
00:26:52,905 --> 00:26:53,775
Plus word of mouth.

568
00:26:53,775 --> 00:26:56,445
You know, friends are te I mean,
sign shops are telling their friends,

569
00:26:56,655 --> 00:26:59,445
which, you know, in our industry can
be a little, they don't tend to do

570
00:26:59,445 --> 00:27:01,275
that as much as they probably should.

571
00:27:02,295 --> 00:27:03,285
Yeah, agreed.

572
00:27:03,585 --> 00:27:04,035
Agreed.

573
00:27:04,035 --> 00:27:09,105
I think it was, uh, who was, it was Tom
mle Trot that we had on here a couple

574
00:27:09,105 --> 00:27:13,575
episodes ago, and he, uh, he was talking
about the days when him and his brothers

575
00:27:13,575 --> 00:27:18,015
would go and actually they would just
randomly walk up to other shops and

576
00:27:18,015 --> 00:27:22,695
as soon as the, the shop owner learned
that they were, they were shop owners

577
00:27:22,700 --> 00:27:27,435
themselves, they were sign painters,
uh, they would put away all the stuff

578
00:27:27,435 --> 00:27:30,855
that, all the drawings, like all the
paint, like everything is going up.

579
00:27:31,125 --> 00:27:31,415
Yeah.

580
00:27:31,845 --> 00:27:34,275
Just because they didn't want
to share that kind of stuff.

581
00:27:34,275 --> 00:27:38,595
But yeah, I, I, I think what you're doing
with behind the signs is, is really cool.

582
00:27:38,595 --> 00:27:42,075
And, uh, you know, definitely fits
a, along the same lines of what

583
00:27:42,075 --> 00:27:45,855
we're trying to do is just educate
and provide resources to, to help

584
00:27:45,855 --> 00:27:46,665
everybody grow.

585
00:27:47,115 --> 00:27:47,925
Yeah, exactly.

586
00:27:48,065 --> 00:27:49,905
And there's enough work
out there for everyone.

587
00:27:49,905 --> 00:27:50,085
Right.

588
00:27:50,085 --> 00:27:54,389
If you, if you look at, I mean, If
I was to go out and start another

589
00:27:54,389 --> 00:27:56,160
sign shop today, a, a third one.

590
00:27:56,190 --> 00:27:59,879
Well, first, a, my wife would
divorce me, but I'm, uh, you know,

591
00:28:01,110 --> 00:28:01,710
mine too.

592
00:28:04,020 --> 00:28:07,080
Uh, yeah, and my wife's a
lawyer too, so I'm screwed.

593
00:28:07,085 --> 00:28:08,580
Like I would just have to sign a blank.

594
00:28:10,970 --> 00:28:15,149
But, you know, I would just,
I would just keep it small.

595
00:28:15,149 --> 00:28:20,010
I would do two or three, two or three
things, you know, very, very well

596
00:28:20,399 --> 00:28:23,850
and maybe outsource the rest of it,
you know, and just keep it simple and

597
00:28:23,850 --> 00:28:28,620
manageable and make a living, like the
idea, like for me, the idea of growing

598
00:28:28,620 --> 00:28:30,389
another big shop, it's like, ah, no way.

599
00:28:30,450 --> 00:28:31,350
I wouldn't want to do that.

600
00:28:32,820 --> 00:28:33,570
I like that idea.

601
00:28:33,660 --> 00:28:34,260
I like that.

602
00:28:34,500 --> 00:28:39,060
Being a niche shop is definitely
something, not too many pe not too many

603
00:28:39,060 --> 00:28:44,010
people do their first go around, but I
definitely can echo something like that.

604
00:28:44,639 --> 00:28:45,060
So.

605
00:28:45,690 --> 00:28:48,525
Just kind of, let's let, let me
kind of finalize that thought there.

606
00:28:48,525 --> 00:28:51,315
You you, great answer on how
to get your next customers.

607
00:28:51,315 --> 00:28:52,365
I love the approach.

608
00:28:52,365 --> 00:28:57,795
I was just telling my friend Carol, uh,
I was texting her the other day and she's

609
00:28:57,795 --> 00:29:00,915
in payroll, um, merchant processing.

610
00:29:01,125 --> 00:29:01,245
Mm-hmm.

611
00:29:01,575 --> 00:29:03,915
And I, and she's, and
she's doing this remotely.

612
00:29:04,255 --> 00:29:06,885
And I'm like, oh, well, you
know, you're a beautiful girl.

613
00:29:06,885 --> 00:29:11,355
You know, you're young, you're energetic,
you're a family woman too, so people are

614
00:29:11,355 --> 00:29:14,625
gonna resonate with you, but you gotta get
out there and you gotta shake some hands.

615
00:29:14,625 --> 00:29:18,345
And she goes, well, what's, what's
like an important thing that I can do?

616
00:29:18,345 --> 00:29:20,535
I'm like, I'll tell you
a quick little story.

617
00:29:20,595 --> 00:29:27,225
I, the only reason why I went with a
local guy that did my merchant processing

618
00:29:27,225 --> 00:29:28,815
was because he came to my door mm-hmm.

619
00:29:29,115 --> 00:29:30,705
And said, I will, I will.

620
00:29:30,825 --> 00:29:32,955
I shook your hand, gave me a coffee mug.

621
00:29:33,405 --> 00:29:36,045
And he said, I'm gonna
deliver receipt paper.

622
00:29:36,050 --> 00:29:36,945
I'm dating myself.

623
00:29:36,945 --> 00:29:38,865
Receipt paper for life for you.

624
00:29:39,195 --> 00:29:41,146
This guy would always
come with like a box of.

625
00:29:41,865 --> 00:29:43,275
Receipt paper, like mm-hmm.

626
00:29:43,695 --> 00:29:47,685
20, 30 rolls and, you know, you never
want to be out of receipt paper, but

627
00:29:47,745 --> 00:29:52,245
I don't even think we do receipt paper
anymore, but most, most receipts are

628
00:29:52,245 --> 00:29:54,255
invoice, uh, emailed and things like that.

629
00:29:54,255 --> 00:29:54,345
Mm-hmm.

630
00:29:54,345 --> 00:29:59,265
But, you know, there, there's that,
let me shake your hand approach.

631
00:29:59,325 --> 00:30:00,575
So I, I love that.

632
00:30:00,755 --> 00:30:01,175
Mm-hmm.

633
00:30:01,785 --> 00:30:02,835
I love that you do that.

634
00:30:02,835 --> 00:30:04,485
I think that's what makes you unique.

635
00:30:05,145 --> 00:30:09,975
I would hope that one day, uh, whenever
it comes, when you get your thousandth

636
00:30:09,975 --> 00:30:12,015
customer, that you do not change that.

637
00:30:12,015 --> 00:30:12,615
Mm-hmm.

638
00:30:13,295 --> 00:30:15,225
Although you probably have
to shake a lot more hands.

639
00:30:15,225 --> 00:30:15,315
Mm-hmm.

640
00:30:15,555 --> 00:30:17,445
And that might be something
that you're gonna love to do.

641
00:30:17,450 --> 00:30:17,655
Yeah.

642
00:30:18,045 --> 00:30:24,135
But it's, it's gotta, it, it correlates
to your level of customer service.

643
00:30:24,135 --> 00:30:25,275
See, here's my take on it.

644
00:30:25,545 --> 00:30:25,995
Okay.

645
00:30:26,595 --> 00:30:32,235
With the other competitors of yours,
a sign shop is an account that

646
00:30:32,235 --> 00:30:34,015
pays a monthly retainer mm-hmm.

647
00:30:34,325 --> 00:30:37,245
That has, that uses the software.

648
00:30:37,545 --> 00:30:46,635
And as that number increases, So to
do the voices, the level of increased

649
00:30:46,635 --> 00:30:48,495
support tickets that you will have.

650
00:30:48,735 --> 00:30:48,915
Mm-hmm.

651
00:30:49,245 --> 00:30:50,475
Um, innovation.

652
00:30:51,195 --> 00:30:52,545
So many, I could keep going.

653
00:30:52,545 --> 00:30:55,935
So many more things will also increase
as your customer bandwidth does.

654
00:30:56,145 --> 00:30:56,235
Mm-hmm.

655
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,525
However, um, with, with that being said,

656
00:31:01,275 --> 00:31:01,635
what

657
00:31:01,635 --> 00:31:05,805
are your plans for growing?

658
00:31:05,955 --> 00:31:09,315
Not necessarily your customer
base, but growing with technology?

659
00:31:09,535 --> 00:31:09,825
Yeah.

660
00:31:09,845 --> 00:31:10,625
Is there a plan?

661
00:31:10,625 --> 00:31:10,945
Mm-hmm.

662
00:31:11,025 --> 00:31:16,635
Is there a plan with the, the development
of, say, new apps, integrations with new

663
00:31:16,635 --> 00:31:21,795
apps that are PR built around productivity
and maybe chat G P T and other things

664
00:31:21,795 --> 00:31:23,475
like that, that are AI related?

665
00:31:23,715 --> 00:31:23,865
Mm-hmm.

666
00:31:24,195 --> 00:31:25,965
What are your plans in that area?

667
00:31:27,030 --> 00:31:32,360
Uh, well chat g p t is super helpful
for me to write articles, you know,

668
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:38,639
so for, for out, for outlines, you
know, uh, so no, but all, you know,

669
00:31:38,850 --> 00:31:41,909
all joking aside with that, I, I
have, I have found it useful actually.

670
00:31:42,330 --> 00:31:47,250
Um, but no, where, you know, I'm, you
know, I am, again, not a developer,

671
00:31:47,250 --> 00:31:50,730
but I am, I am grateful that I have
really, really great development

672
00:31:50,730 --> 00:31:52,800
partners and engineers that I work with.

673
00:31:53,310 --> 00:31:58,409
And so I think what's gonna drive the
growth of the product in Sign Tracker

674
00:31:58,415 --> 00:31:59,760
is what's been driving it, right?

675
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,540
Like list, yes, we've been a little
limited, um, in our ability to add

676
00:32:03,540 --> 00:32:07,260
features that we really want to just
because we're a small team, but we

677
00:32:07,260 --> 00:32:11,610
are growing and as we grow, we're
reinvesting back into the business.

678
00:32:11,610 --> 00:32:12,689
Like we're we all live.

679
00:32:13,139 --> 00:32:16,110
I mean, this little green screen right
here, right behind it is my garage.

680
00:32:16,199 --> 00:32:18,090
And you know, like we, we all work remote.

681
00:32:18,090 --> 00:32:20,760
We keep our, you know, our
overhead really lean so that we

682
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:21,929
can invest back in the business.

683
00:32:21,929 --> 00:32:27,510
So, The more we, you know, grow the
base of our customers and listen

684
00:32:27,510 --> 00:32:29,490
to what their challenges are.

685
00:32:29,670 --> 00:32:32,460
We're developing solutions around that.

686
00:32:32,460 --> 00:32:34,680
And that's pretty much how we've
done it right from the beginning.

687
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,010
They needed a place to be
able to store all their files.

688
00:32:38,550 --> 00:32:38,820
Okay?

689
00:32:38,820 --> 00:32:40,560
So we built file storage within the job.

690
00:32:40,565 --> 00:32:43,560
They needed a place to view
all their files in this source.

691
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:43,980
Okay?

692
00:32:43,980 --> 00:32:44,850
So we built viewers.

693
00:32:44,850 --> 00:32:47,730
Now, you know, now, hey, I need to
be able to send contracts straight

694
00:32:47,730 --> 00:32:51,210
out of the, um, the app and have
clients sign them like a DocuSign.

695
00:32:51,330 --> 00:32:51,660
Okay?

696
00:32:51,660 --> 00:32:52,890
So we adopted that and did that.

697
00:32:52,895 --> 00:32:58,260
So, and, and we don't just like, I
think we're, a lot of the other software

698
00:32:58,265 --> 00:33:03,390
products make mistakes is they, they have
one client that bugs the crap out of them

699
00:33:03,660 --> 00:33:06,180
for one feature and then they build it.

700
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,120
And maybe that one client
and a few others are happy.

701
00:33:09,420 --> 00:33:12,600
But next thing you know, You know,
they've done it again and again and again.

702
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,120
And then they have this product
that's bloated where a lot

703
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:15,929
of the features aren't used.

704
00:33:15,929 --> 00:33:22,110
So we try really hard to interview a lot
of clients before we add another feature.

705
00:33:22,110 --> 00:33:24,360
And I think we're gonna keep,
keep going down that path.

706
00:33:24,570 --> 00:33:26,909
Yes, we do want to do
some more integrations.

707
00:33:26,909 --> 00:33:30,510
We're actually interviewing someone
next week that kind of specializes

708
00:33:30,510 --> 00:33:34,379
in integration so that we can
think about some of the important

709
00:33:34,409 --> 00:33:35,460
things that we should integrate.

710
00:33:35,460 --> 00:33:38,280
Like the requests, we've had a lot of
requests over the past couple years.

711
00:33:38,284 --> 00:33:40,500
Can it integrate with
Google Calendar or whatever.

712
00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:45,720
So, but yeah, our, we're, we're de they,
the application, the product is not

713
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,280
stagnant, I'll just put it that way.

714
00:33:47,379 --> 00:33:52,440
We, we are constantly working on it
and, and doing little sprint releases.

715
00:33:52,935 --> 00:33:54,165
Based on the customer feedback.

716
00:33:54,165 --> 00:33:56,534
So we're gonna keep going
in that direction for now.

717
00:33:56,534 --> 00:34:00,824
Unless, uh, someone out there in Beil
sign shop land has a couple mill they're

718
00:34:00,824 --> 00:34:03,824
wanting to throw on sign tracker,
then we'll ramp up really quick.

719
00:34:04,875 --> 00:34:07,995
You know, you took the win from my
sales on the next question there.

720
00:34:08,145 --> 00:34:13,395
But, but ideally, your philosophy
on handling new feature request

721
00:34:13,395 --> 00:34:17,145
is centered around a, a pretty
rigorous interview between mm-hmm.

722
00:34:17,895 --> 00:34:21,824
You and a collection of clients,
not necessarily just one client.

723
00:34:21,824 --> 00:34:27,375
So is this feature, uh, I guess, you
know, everybody likes to have a voice.

724
00:34:27,554 --> 00:34:27,645
Mm-hmm.

725
00:34:27,889 --> 00:34:33,134
So what is, what is the overall
thought process for you on

726
00:34:33,764 --> 00:34:35,565
how your company handles.

727
00:34:36,689 --> 00:34:39,379
Request, is it something
that they can respect?

728
00:34:39,899 --> 00:34:43,980
Is it something that they think
is, it goes into a queue and over

729
00:34:43,980 --> 00:34:45,419
promising and underdelivering?

730
00:34:45,689 --> 00:34:46,020
What is

731
00:34:46,020 --> 00:34:47,009
your process for that?

732
00:34:47,189 --> 00:34:51,569
Yeah, I, I, you know, I'm your
typical sign sales guy, so I've had,

733
00:34:51,689 --> 00:34:54,389
I've had bad habits in my life of
over-promising and un underdelivering,

734
00:34:54,779 --> 00:34:56,279
but, but now that I'm, now that I'm

735
00:34:56,284 --> 00:34:56,609
old

736
00:34:56,609 --> 00:34:58,890
and wise, I've, uh,
I've stopped doing that.

737
00:34:59,310 --> 00:35:03,450
Um, so basically when somebody, you know,
when we're pretty honest with them, right?

738
00:35:03,450 --> 00:35:07,529
Like if, if somebody gives us a feature
request, we do respond right away.

739
00:35:07,529 --> 00:35:11,970
It goes into, you know, um, a system
that we keep to track all those requests.

740
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:13,060
We respond right away.

741
00:35:13,430 --> 00:35:16,859
We'll ask questions around,
and we keep, you know, notes on

742
00:35:16,859 --> 00:35:18,060
the answers to those questions.

743
00:35:18,060 --> 00:35:21,779
What, you know, what is your use case
based like, like why, why would you,

744
00:35:21,810 --> 00:35:23,100
what would you use this feature for?

745
00:35:23,100 --> 00:35:24,270
How would it help your business?

746
00:35:24,779 --> 00:35:27,480
And then when we get enough people
that might ask and we let them

747
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,600
know, like we we'll honest with
them, like, this is a great idea.

748
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,180
We're gonna put this on our development.

749
00:35:33,735 --> 00:35:36,105
Ideas board and um, ideas board.

750
00:35:36,105 --> 00:35:36,345
There you go.

751
00:35:36,345 --> 00:35:36,705
Yeah.

752
00:35:36,735 --> 00:35:39,855
We're not gonna, you know, we're not
gonna promise it's going into the queue.

753
00:35:40,245 --> 00:35:44,174
It'll go on the board, but, you know,
if we get enough, if we get 10 people

754
00:35:44,235 --> 00:35:47,055
that ask for this feature, and it
seems like something that could be

755
00:35:47,055 --> 00:35:51,615
added in a six to eight week sprint,
and we can talk to a few other folks a

756
00:35:51,620 --> 00:35:54,134
around that suggestion, then we do it.

757
00:35:55,125 --> 00:35:55,875
And so I love that

758
00:35:55,875 --> 00:35:56,355
approach.

759
00:35:56,384 --> 00:36:00,884
I love the approach, you know, tech
companies, not necessarily just in this

760
00:36:00,884 --> 00:36:04,035
space, but when they hear a feature,
they're like, okay, let's get that done.

761
00:36:04,395 --> 00:36:08,025
Oh, especially if they're an emerging
brand and they're looking to make their

762
00:36:08,029 --> 00:36:09,915
current roster of customers really happy.

763
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,245
They're, I love that you said
the word bloated, because that's

764
00:36:13,245 --> 00:36:15,375
what the product ends up being.

765
00:36:15,375 --> 00:36:15,616
Is it?

766
00:36:15,621 --> 00:36:15,765
Mm-hmm.

767
00:36:16,305 --> 00:36:18,015
It kind of morphs into something.

768
00:36:18,404 --> 00:36:19,575
Beyond what?

769
00:36:20,205 --> 00:36:21,585
Beyond the original strategy.

770
00:36:21,585 --> 00:36:25,005
Kind of like what we're doing
here in the Better Sign shop.

771
00:36:25,005 --> 00:36:27,345
You know, I'll use our
own platform as an exp.

772
00:36:27,375 --> 00:36:32,115
We are developing enhanced features,
but we are not coming up with a P O s.

773
00:36:32,790 --> 00:36:34,379
Despite my numerous attempts.

774
00:36:34,850 --> 00:36:37,049
We're not, we're not doing a

775
00:36:37,049 --> 00:36:38,310
p, we're just not gonna do it.

776
00:36:39,180 --> 00:36:39,600
And,

777
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:45,660
and, and the vision is clear and
we're continuingly taking and

778
00:36:45,660 --> 00:36:49,230
speaking to people on a platform
that are asking us for features.

779
00:36:49,230 --> 00:36:52,529
And I love the, I love
the, what'd you call it?

780
00:36:52,529 --> 00:36:54,060
The, the ideas board.

781
00:36:54,209 --> 00:36:54,540
Yeah.

782
00:36:55,140 --> 00:36:56,939
I normally revert to a queue.

783
00:36:56,939 --> 00:36:57,000
Yeah.

784
00:36:57,149 --> 00:37:01,169
But the fact that there is like a step
before the queue there is I love that.

785
00:37:01,169 --> 00:37:01,230
Yeah.

786
00:37:01,290 --> 00:37:04,799
I, I love that very, very much
applaud to you for putting

787
00:37:04,799 --> 00:37:06,660
something like that in play for you.

788
00:37:06,665 --> 00:37:07,529
I, I think that's great.

789
00:37:07,535 --> 00:37:11,310
I think that's going to lead to
a lot more success in the short

790
00:37:11,310 --> 00:37:12,600
term and long term for you.

791
00:37:13,350 --> 00:37:13,500
Good.

792
00:37:13,709 --> 00:37:14,069
Thanks.

793
00:37:14,279 --> 00:37:16,799
I, I'm gonna follow this up
with, I have two more, two

794
00:37:16,799 --> 00:37:18,089
or three more questions left.

795
00:37:18,089 --> 00:37:18,240
All right.

796
00:37:18,350 --> 00:37:18,649
All right.

797
00:37:18,654 --> 00:37:21,209
And, and I know we're running
a little short on time here,

798
00:37:21,209 --> 00:37:23,819
so I'll make 'em quick, but.

799
00:37:24,390 --> 00:37:25,080
For me

800
00:37:25,319 --> 00:37:28,980
and I guess for the, the hundreds
of listeners that we have out there.

801
00:37:29,339 --> 00:37:33,180
Why, and I'm, I'm sure you have a
queued up answer for this, so I'm

802
00:37:33,180 --> 00:37:37,529
gonna just ask you why should our
listeners use the software over

803
00:37:37,529 --> 00:37:38,009
others?

804
00:37:38,850 --> 00:37:42,839
And I, you know, you don't want to just
say, well, look, it's designed, it's,

805
00:37:42,839 --> 00:37:44,850
it's where, where, where can I go here?

806
00:37:44,850 --> 00:37:45,810
I don't know if I have this queue up.

807
00:37:46,049 --> 00:37:49,319
I don't wanna, I obviously, my first
thought is, well, it's, it's affordable,

808
00:37:49,379 --> 00:37:52,470
but, but I don't want to, we don't wanna
just be known as like the affordable

809
00:37:52,470 --> 00:37:53,669
solution in the sign industry.

810
00:37:53,669 --> 00:37:58,169
There's reasons, you know, there's
reasons why we probably are priced

811
00:37:58,169 --> 00:38:01,049
the way we're priced because
our target is for smaller shops.

812
00:38:01,140 --> 00:38:03,959
But I would say, look, sign tracker.

813
00:38:04,935 --> 00:38:10,125
We know that the majority of
our customers are not staring

814
00:38:10,125 --> 00:38:11,385
at a computer all day, right?

815
00:38:11,385 --> 00:38:15,105
Like, they need to get in, get some
information, store a file, make a

816
00:38:15,110 --> 00:38:19,155
note, assign a task, and probably
gonna be out in the shop making signs

817
00:38:19,155 --> 00:38:20,475
or out in the field installing signs.

818
00:38:20,805 --> 00:38:23,745
So they're, they're a combination
of, you know, uh, owner operator.

819
00:38:23,925 --> 00:38:28,215
So I think with sign tracker,
you know, it's, and especially if

820
00:38:28,215 --> 00:38:32,355
you're transitioning from, let's
say even, even even a, like a

821
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,835
Trello app or something like that,
where you want a little bit more

822
00:38:35,835 --> 00:38:37,725
functionality that's sign shop related.

823
00:38:37,965 --> 00:38:40,745
But certainly if you're coming
from any kind of a whiteboard

824
00:38:40,745 --> 00:38:43,095
paper folder, keep it in my head.

825
00:38:43,305 --> 00:38:47,535
All those obviously places,
sign tracker's a great step

826
00:38:47,535 --> 00:38:49,095
in, in, in the right direction.

827
00:38:49,245 --> 00:38:51,615
We've had some customers
that have about grown us.

828
00:38:51,975 --> 00:38:54,915
Um, we had a shop that had,
you know, 40 employees and they

829
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:56,415
needed a full e r P system.

830
00:38:56,745 --> 00:39:01,589
Um, they needed bar coding and,
you know, Time tracking for, uh,

831
00:39:01,620 --> 00:39:04,799
you know, for their cus for against
the job, you know, all that stuff.

832
00:39:05,100 --> 00:39:05,819
And that's fine.

833
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,130
We were excited that they were
with us for five years and went

834
00:39:08,130 --> 00:39:11,250
on to a, you know, Epicor, which
is like a big giant er p system.

835
00:39:11,250 --> 00:39:11,400
Mm-hmm.

836
00:39:11,645 --> 00:39:11,730
Yeah.

837
00:39:11,819 --> 00:39:17,220
Um, but I think for, for, if you look
at the makeup of most sign shops of,

838
00:39:17,370 --> 00:39:21,600
you know, up to five, between five and
10 employees, sign tracker's ideal.

839
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:23,940
It's simple, it's affordable.

840
00:39:23,940 --> 00:39:24,990
The support is great.

841
00:39:24,990 --> 00:39:26,670
And so, yeah.

842
00:39:26,910 --> 00:39:28,290
And you get to know me, Joe.

843
00:39:28,710 --> 00:39:29,130
Yeah.

844
00:39:29,130 --> 00:39:29,970
I, I, and I like

845
00:39:29,970 --> 00:39:30,089
that.

846
00:39:30,089 --> 00:39:34,890
So you are between, so your, your ideal
customer from your perspective that you're

847
00:39:34,890 --> 00:39:38,880
targeting is a shop three to 10 employees.

848
00:39:38,970 --> 00:39:39,089
Mm-hmm.

849
00:39:39,870 --> 00:39:43,680
Is it that, is there a specific,
uh, industry, like can they do wrap?

850
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:44,819
Can they be wrap shops?

851
00:39:44,825 --> 00:39:45,960
Can they be print shops?

852
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,000
Can they be vinyl, electrical?

853
00:39:48,330 --> 00:39:50,100
What's the ideal shop look like?

854
00:39:50,290 --> 00:39:50,509
Uh,

855
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:51,570
All of the above.

856
00:39:51,575 --> 00:39:52,299
Um, all the above.

857
00:39:52,710 --> 00:39:53,190
Yeah.

858
00:39:53,250 --> 00:39:54,240
It's, it's all of the above.

859
00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:57,960
So that's the other thing too, cuz
there are some, you know, some of the

860
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,980
applications that are out there that
are very specific to electric sign

861
00:40:01,980 --> 00:40:05,850
shops, there's some that are very
specific to just vinyl shops, right?

862
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:10,680
So with sign tracker, it's pretty
flexible cuz really the only vari

863
00:40:10,830 --> 00:40:16,020
variable in, in those different types
of products are gonna be the quoting

864
00:40:16,020 --> 00:40:19,470
templates, the task templates that
you, and you can build them yourself.

865
00:40:19,529 --> 00:40:21,360
You're, you're, you're,
it's really flexible.

866
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,290
So on the same quote worksheet
in sign tracker, you could do a

867
00:40:25,290 --> 00:40:29,880
channel letter set, window vinyl,
and a box wrap all on one quote.

868
00:40:30,270 --> 00:40:33,390
And you can manage it through the
system, that job, all on one ticket.

869
00:40:33,390 --> 00:40:38,279
So, or divide it up into several tickets,
but it's really geared for the, the

870
00:40:38,285 --> 00:40:42,029
shop that does a little, you know,
it's, it's fine for shops that just do

871
00:40:42,035 --> 00:40:45,720
vehicle wraps, but it's real, it's really
flexible enough for shops that do I do a

872
00:40:45,720 --> 00:40:47,190
little bit of everything kind of thing.

873
00:40:47,220 --> 00:40:47,430
Yeah.

874
00:40:47,490 --> 00:40:47,759
Yeah.

875
00:40:48,290 --> 00:40:51,090
That's which a lot of small,
a lot of small shops do that.

876
00:40:51,090 --> 00:40:51,779
Right, that's

877
00:40:51,779 --> 00:40:52,470
what I was gonna say.

878
00:40:52,470 --> 00:40:52,650
Yeah.

879
00:40:52,650 --> 00:40:56,340
Hey, like there's a, a lot of
convergence happening lately with

880
00:40:56,430 --> 00:41:00,630
equipment costs going down and,
uh, just, you know, everybody

881
00:41:00,630 --> 00:41:01,830
doing a little bit of everything.

882
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:02,460
Yeah.

883
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:03,180
Um, okay.

884
00:41:03,180 --> 00:41:08,430
So I'm a, I'm a sign shop and I
have four employees and I'm doing

885
00:41:08,460 --> 00:41:15,029
sub a million dollars in gross
sales, and I have over, let's just

886
00:41:15,029 --> 00:41:18,270
say, over 300 customers in my book.

887
00:41:19,670 --> 00:41:25,485
Majority of my book is probably made up
of 50 50 new business and repeat business.

888
00:41:25,485 --> 00:41:25,845
Mm-hmm.

889
00:41:26,805 --> 00:41:31,215
Um, and I decide, I meet you,
you walk into my shop and I

890
00:41:31,215 --> 00:41:34,395
say, J and I see you seem like a
really fascinating human being.

891
00:41:34,395 --> 00:41:37,425
I shake your hand and you tell
me all about sign tracker and

892
00:41:37,425 --> 00:41:41,355
I decide this is really a good
opportunity for me to get in with a

893
00:41:41,355 --> 00:41:42,015
software.

894
00:41:42,435 --> 00:41:43,965
What does

895
00:41:44,025 --> 00:41:47,535
the onboarding with your
software software look like for

896
00:41:47,540 --> 00:41:48,495
a shop like me?

897
00:41:49,395 --> 00:41:54,015
So, well, first we have a
14 day free trial, right?

898
00:41:54,020 --> 00:41:54,525
No credit card.

899
00:41:55,260 --> 00:41:55,740
Nothing.

900
00:41:55,770 --> 00:41:59,100
And so as soon as someone signs up,
we reach out to them immediately.

901
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,820
I do, um, every week standing webinars.

902
00:42:02,820 --> 00:42:06,780
So I would say like, Hey, you know,
come to our Wednesday webinar where

903
00:42:06,780 --> 00:42:10,440
I do a complete overview of the
app, really focused on project,

904
00:42:10,500 --> 00:42:12,180
the project flow side of the app.

905
00:42:12,750 --> 00:42:15,900
And we ask questions and sort
of, you know, and we literally,

906
00:42:15,900 --> 00:42:18,330
we'll show them like, Hey, this
is how you set your employees up.

907
00:42:18,330 --> 00:42:20,130
This is how you set
your task templates up.

908
00:42:20,340 --> 00:42:21,960
This is how to organize
your job flow board.

909
00:42:21,965 --> 00:42:24,570
I mean, it comes pre-organized,
but if you, if, if your workflow

910
00:42:24,570 --> 00:42:26,580
is a little different, we help
you change it and tweak it.

911
00:42:27,060 --> 00:42:30,420
And so we get them kind of in
there getting used to entering

912
00:42:30,425 --> 00:42:32,190
their jobs and used to the flow.

913
00:42:32,550 --> 00:42:35,850
And then the more complicated
side, I think of any.

914
00:42:36,540 --> 00:42:39,270
App in our industry is gonna
be the quoting side, right?

915
00:42:39,270 --> 00:42:40,770
So on on.

916
00:42:40,830 --> 00:42:46,110
Then once a week I have one webinar
that just focuses on quoting, you know,

917
00:42:46,470 --> 00:42:49,470
the first webinar I will show them
like how the quotes feed into the jobs.

918
00:42:49,470 --> 00:42:53,009
But the second webinar, all I do is
like how to set up your materials, how

919
00:42:53,009 --> 00:42:57,029
to set up your labor, and this come, it
comes with some stuff, but how to edit

920
00:42:57,029 --> 00:43:01,600
those, um, how to, how to set up formula
items if you, if you use formula items.

921
00:43:02,130 --> 00:43:04,710
And then how to build product
templates that feed into the

922
00:43:04,710 --> 00:43:06,180
jobs to make quoting quicker.

923
00:43:06,180 --> 00:43:10,830
So it after, uh, and they can come to
those like their, their live links on

924
00:43:10,830 --> 00:43:14,490
our DA on the dashboard right inside
their app where they can click and just

925
00:43:14,819 --> 00:43:16,500
join the webinar every week, two a week.

926
00:43:17,100 --> 00:43:19,500
I also do a lot of
individual training too.

927
00:43:19,589 --> 00:43:22,410
So if they feel like, you know,
cuz two or three sign shops will

928
00:43:22,410 --> 00:43:23,880
show up every week at those things.

929
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,790
And sometimes people feel a
little intimidated about talking

930
00:43:26,790 --> 00:43:28,259
about their shop or their needs.

931
00:43:28,259 --> 00:43:31,920
So I will also set up one-on-one training
sessions with them too, if it's needed.

932
00:43:32,310 --> 00:43:34,920
But we're committed to staying with them.

933
00:43:35,295 --> 00:43:38,385
You know, and, and partnering
with them until they're using

934
00:43:38,385 --> 00:43:41,655
the app and feeling like they're,
they're being successful with it.

935
00:43:41,985 --> 00:43:43,905
So, yeah.

936
00:43:43,965 --> 00:43:44,085
Nice.

937
00:43:44,085 --> 00:43:45,015
That's what we do right now.

938
00:43:45,705 --> 00:43:47,055
So it's a handholding approach.

939
00:43:47,055 --> 00:43:47,145
Mm-hmm.

940
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:49,635
And it's free and it's free to sign up.

941
00:43:49,635 --> 00:43:52,966
What is the typical, uh,
user signing up with?

942
00:43:53,535 --> 00:43:54,555
Is there a price point that

943
00:43:55,005 --> 00:43:55,455
they

944
00:43:55,455 --> 00:43:56,895
are there, is guided towards?

945
00:43:57,075 --> 00:43:57,375
Yep.

946
00:43:57,375 --> 00:44:01,485
So it's two, for two users,
it's 49 bucks a month.

947
00:44:02,055 --> 00:44:05,355
And if they sign up for a year,
usually on the first year, we give

948
00:44:05,355 --> 00:44:08,265
them a 25% off coupon for their,
if they decide to go for the year.

949
00:44:08,270 --> 00:44:11,835
So to get into it initially,
it's not a lot of money.

950
00:44:11,835 --> 00:44:11,925
Yes.

951
00:44:11,930 --> 00:44:12,835
It's nothing, it's not a lot of money.

952
00:44:13,065 --> 00:44:13,335
Yeah.

953
00:44:13,340 --> 00:44:13,435
Yeah.

954
00:44:13,845 --> 00:44:17,685
And then you get from three to
five users, it's 99 bucks a month,

955
00:44:17,865 --> 00:44:22,095
which I mean, I, I would, I would
say those two groups make up about

956
00:44:22,095 --> 00:44:23,655
half, you know, half the business.

957
00:44:23,655 --> 00:44:29,835
And then, and once you get to six users,
then it's unlimited and it's 149 a month.

958
00:44:30,435 --> 00:44:32,055
So that's it.

959
00:44:32,444 --> 00:44:34,395
I mean, a hundred nine, a
hundred forty nine a month.

960
00:44:34,395 --> 00:44:37,484
If it keeps you from, you know,
one banner job falling through

961
00:44:37,484 --> 00:44:38,774
the cracks, it pays for itself.

962
00:44:38,805 --> 00:44:39,075
You know?

963
00:44:39,134 --> 00:44:39,734
Absolutely.

964
00:44:39,734 --> 00:44:40,274
Absolutely.

965
00:44:40,274 --> 00:44:40,694
So at

966
00:44:40,694 --> 00:44:44,115
one, even at 1 49 a month, if I,
if I didn't have six employees,

967
00:44:44,115 --> 00:44:45,544
it's not about our price, right?

968
00:44:45,825 --> 00:44:46,455
We're not mm-hmm.

969
00:44:46,544 --> 00:44:50,174
I'm sure you don't get a lot of
pushback on price in terms of signups.

970
00:44:50,180 --> 00:44:50,544
Mm-hmm.

971
00:44:51,015 --> 00:44:54,765
So what is the, what is the major piece?

972
00:44:54,765 --> 00:44:56,205
What's the missing component here?

973
00:44:56,205 --> 00:44:58,095
What are people asking for that you don't

974
00:44:58,095 --> 00:44:58,995
have, or

975
00:45:00,134 --> 00:45:02,984
what is it exactly that's
preventing you from having

976
00:45:03,584 --> 00:45:03,915
more

977
00:45:03,915 --> 00:45:04,674
than 500 users?

978
00:45:05,055 --> 00:45:05,475
Yeah.

979
00:45:05,479 --> 00:45:09,734
I, I would say, you know, and, and
the past, you know, the past few

980
00:45:09,734 --> 00:45:14,145
years since we all sort of jumped ship
from our day jobs and started doing

981
00:45:14,145 --> 00:45:15,274
this, first it was just two of us.

982
00:45:15,274 --> 00:45:15,515
Mm-hmm.

983
00:45:15,595 --> 00:45:15,834
Yeah.

984
00:45:15,884 --> 00:45:19,785
So it's been, it's been bandwidth on
development, you know, and band marketing.

985
00:45:19,875 --> 00:45:23,955
But we're, we're getting, we're getting
some really good stride going now, but I

986
00:45:23,955 --> 00:45:27,274
would say, you know, the, the big thing
that we're working on right now and.

987
00:45:28,395 --> 00:45:30,855
Probably we should have done it
sooner, but we're doing it now.

988
00:45:30,855 --> 00:45:31,515
So it's okay.

989
00:45:31,965 --> 00:45:36,825
Is the ability, you can send
the contract out of sign track

990
00:45:36,825 --> 00:45:37,935
or you can get it signed.

991
00:45:37,935 --> 00:45:39,015
You can get approved.

992
00:45:39,020 --> 00:45:40,965
All that information goes into QuickBooks.

993
00:45:40,965 --> 00:45:44,055
So you can generate your invoices and
do your receivables and all that stuff.

994
00:45:44,745 --> 00:45:47,365
But the ability to send the
proof and then accept credit

995
00:45:47,365 --> 00:45:49,335
card payment right in the app.

996
00:45:50,385 --> 00:45:53,085
I would say really, other than that,
sign Tracker has everything else.

997
00:45:53,085 --> 00:45:56,145
The sign shop needs, and we know that
we don't have that and it makes me want

998
00:45:56,150 --> 00:46:00,945
to, I should find something sharp and
stab myself in the eye, but, you know,

999
00:46:01,005 --> 00:46:02,475
but, but we're working on it, right?

1000
00:46:02,565 --> 00:46:02,835
Yeah.

1001
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:03,615
I'll, we won't do that.

1002
00:46:03,675 --> 00:46:06,515
We're working on it and it's,
it is our major push right now,

1003
00:46:06,885 --> 00:46:07,965
like that's what we're doing.

1004
00:46:08,295 --> 00:46:10,935
But other than that, I think
Sign Tracker has everything.

1005
00:46:10,935 --> 00:46:13,095
A shop, you know, a
smaller shop needs, right?

1006
00:46:13,095 --> 00:46:15,495
So you get into 25 employees, 20.

1007
00:46:15,645 --> 00:46:18,225
Not that we don't have customers,
we do have customers that have,

1008
00:46:18,705 --> 00:46:21,735
you know, 20 employees and 25
employees that do big electric.

1009
00:46:22,305 --> 00:46:25,095
Projects and they just like sign
tracker and they're sticking with it

1010
00:46:25,095 --> 00:46:28,424
and I'm sure they have other things
that help them with um, time tracking or

1011
00:46:28,424 --> 00:46:31,755
whatever, but, um, or inventory controls.

1012
00:46:31,755 --> 00:46:35,955
But, but I think, yeah, I think sign
trackers, I think once we have that

1013
00:46:35,955 --> 00:46:39,944
piece built and it's gonna happen
this year, then the rest of it's just

1014
00:46:39,944 --> 00:46:44,415
continuing to enhance it and listening to
customers and keeping on that same path.

1015
00:46:45,944 --> 00:46:46,665
I think that, I

1016
00:46:46,665 --> 00:46:47,384
think it's great.

1017
00:46:47,444 --> 00:46:50,085
Joe, I'm on your website right now.

1018
00:46:50,174 --> 00:46:51,705
I'm checking out a couple of things.

1019
00:46:51,705 --> 00:46:52,575
I mean people, how

1020
00:46:52,580 --> 00:46:53,565
could people find you?

1021
00:46:54,645 --> 00:46:56,205
Uh, they can find me.

1022
00:46:56,295 --> 00:47:02,444
Uh, they just go to sign-tracker.com
and, uh, and we're, you know, they

1023
00:47:02,444 --> 00:47:06,525
can, I'm just joe sign-tracker.com
so you're always welcome to send

1024
00:47:06,525 --> 00:47:08,415
me an email directly, you know.

1025
00:47:08,820 --> 00:47:12,690
Much to my, much to my wife's disapproval.

1026
00:47:12,690 --> 00:47:15,420
I usually give people my, all of
my customers, all our customers

1027
00:47:15,420 --> 00:47:18,210
have my cell phone, which could
make vacations very tricky.

1028
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:19,500
Yes.

1029
00:47:20,140 --> 00:47:21,630
I, I don't know why you do

1030
00:47:21,630 --> 00:47:23,640
that, but because I, cuz I'm insane.

1031
00:47:23,670 --> 00:47:27,900
I mean, I do try, I do, I'm trying to get
better at that, you know, but, uh, but I,

1032
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:33,180
I do try to make myself super accessible,
but they can reach me@joesign-tracker.com.

1033
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,900
Um, also, you know, I spend a lot of
time these days on Behind the Signs,

1034
00:47:36,900 --> 00:47:38,759
the Facebook group, behind the Signs.

1035
00:47:39,060 --> 00:47:42,780
We have our, on our website,
sign-tracker.com, we have our, um,

1036
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,220
TOLLFREE number and all that stuff, uh,
published right on the top of the screen.

1037
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:49,200
So, yeah, any, you can reach out
to us, all those, all those ways.

1038
00:47:50,069 --> 00:47:50,490
Excellent.

1039
00:47:50,759 --> 00:47:55,500
So, Joe, one of the things that I, I think
is just like watching you interact on

1040
00:47:55,529 --> 00:48:00,750
Behind the Signs and just with your own
audience, I get the sense that you're a

1041
00:48:00,750 --> 00:48:05,580
guy like me that likes Talking Shop, that
may be like your favorite part of the job.

1042
00:48:05,585 --> 00:48:05,990
Mm-hmm.

1043
00:48:06,424 --> 00:48:08,990
Uh, so I'm assuming you talk with
a lot of shop owners and mm-hmm.

1044
00:48:09,140 --> 00:48:12,839
Like, one thing that, that comes
up a lot on our coaching calls,

1045
00:48:12,839 --> 00:48:18,029
or even like the, the mastermind
calls that we do is like the, the

1046
00:48:18,029 --> 00:48:21,089
mental side of owning a sign shop.

1047
00:48:21,095 --> 00:48:21,390
Mm-hmm.

1048
00:48:21,509 --> 00:48:25,799
And this is kind of shifting away
from the software talk, but, uh,

1049
00:48:26,129 --> 00:48:29,790
one concept that we've seen come up
a lot is the, this making this jump

1050
00:48:29,790 --> 00:48:32,879
from being a technician to an owner.

1051
00:48:33,299 --> 00:48:35,850
And, and like hearing you describe your.

1052
00:48:36,285 --> 00:48:40,665
Like your journey into the, the
sign industry At first, it, it

1053
00:48:40,665 --> 00:48:44,685
seems like you kind of came in
as a, like an owner mindset.

1054
00:48:44,690 --> 00:48:44,985
Mm-hmm.

1055
00:48:45,350 --> 00:48:47,865
At, at that very first shop
that you started at of mm-hmm.

1056
00:48:48,225 --> 00:48:52,424
Like, Hey, I'm in my evening time,
I'm gonna sit down and knock out

1057
00:48:52,424 --> 00:48:54,105
some forms so things run smoother.

1058
00:48:54,444 --> 00:48:58,275
But I would say on the, the side
tracker side, you probably deal with

1059
00:48:58,275 --> 00:49:03,674
a lot of folks who are starting out
in their own side shop after working

1060
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:09,345
as a installer, production person, or
a designer as a, at a different shop.

1061
00:49:09,345 --> 00:49:10,005
Mm-hmm.

1062
00:49:10,011 --> 00:49:12,075
Would, would you say that's true?

1063
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:13,546
Like, do you interact with
a lot of people like that?

1064
00:49:14,174 --> 00:49:14,715
Yes.

1065
00:49:14,775 --> 00:49:15,105
Yes.

1066
00:49:15,105 --> 00:49:18,134
And so I, I saw that question
that you, uh, sent to me.

1067
00:49:18,134 --> 00:49:23,895
You know, the, the making the shift from
being a technician to an owner and, you

1068
00:49:23,895 --> 00:49:28,785
know, and I, uh, I think I went through
that at a younger age cuz I, you know, I.

1069
00:49:29,430 --> 00:49:32,100
My first business I lived in,
I lived in Southern California.

1070
00:49:32,100 --> 00:49:32,970
I was in the Marine Corps.

1071
00:49:32,970 --> 00:49:36,300
Long story, I won't tell you all that
stuff, but I was in the Marine Corps

1072
00:49:36,300 --> 00:49:39,810
for a few years and then after I got
outta the Marine Corps, I went to,

1073
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:42,540
uh, college to become a minister.

1074
00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:45,890
And so when I graduated, I had a
degree in religion and I don't, I

1075
00:49:45,890 --> 00:49:48,480
don't know, man, I was like looking
in the newspaper under the religion

1076
00:49:48,485 --> 00:49:50,610
section for jobs and there is none.

1077
00:49:51,420 --> 00:49:52,440
Right, right, right.

1078
00:49:53,610 --> 00:49:58,170
So I had a janitorial company, so I
was out cleaning offices, you know, and

1079
00:49:58,170 --> 00:50:03,030
one, one night, it was like four in the
morning, I was just exhausted to the bone.

1080
00:50:03,030 --> 00:50:04,230
I had three kids to feed.

1081
00:50:04,235 --> 00:50:05,370
My wife is in college full-time.

1082
00:50:06,070 --> 00:50:08,190
And I thought, this has gotta
be a better way to do this.

1083
00:50:08,190 --> 00:50:11,940
You know, so I can't just be cleaning
offices until the sun comes up every day.

1084
00:50:11,940 --> 00:50:12,780
It's gonna kill me.

1085
00:50:12,870 --> 00:50:18,960
And I think it's the idea that how can
I, how can I go from doing the work to.

1086
00:50:19,575 --> 00:50:21,795
Managing the work and
bringing the work in.

1087
00:50:21,825 --> 00:50:25,365
And, you know, if you, if you think
about sign shops, you know, almost

1088
00:50:25,365 --> 00:50:26,924
every, oh, not almost everyone.

1089
00:50:26,924 --> 00:50:30,884
This is certainly some that start off
as an entrepreneurial mindset and they

1090
00:50:30,890 --> 00:50:32,475
look at it as a great opportunity.

1091
00:50:32,685 --> 00:50:36,674
But I think a lot of, um, a lot of sign
shops stop with exactly that, right?

1092
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:41,415
On Monday, the installer shows up by
Friday, he's so pissed off at his boss.

1093
00:50:41,504 --> 00:50:42,315
He says, screw it.

1094
00:50:42,315 --> 00:50:42,825
I'm outta here.

1095
00:50:42,825 --> 00:50:44,055
I'm gonna go start my own shop.

1096
00:50:44,055 --> 00:50:46,154
And whether it's a designer
or an installer, whatever.

1097
00:50:46,214 --> 00:50:50,415
And then they get out there and
they, they're still really good at

1098
00:50:51,555 --> 00:50:55,065
being an installer, but they don't
even know where to begin to make

1099
00:50:55,069 --> 00:50:56,326
that shift as a business owner.

1100
00:50:56,565 --> 00:50:59,714
And I think for, for me, I always
try to say people, first of all,

1101
00:51:01,004 --> 00:51:05,415
sales, think about your company
as not an install company.

1102
00:51:05,535 --> 00:51:07,995
You are a sales organization.

1103
00:51:08,550 --> 00:51:09,480
That does insults.

1104
00:51:09,870 --> 00:51:10,110
Right?

1105
00:51:10,110 --> 00:51:11,990
So you, you need, you
need, you know, that's

1106
00:51:11,990 --> 00:51:13,740
a good's a, it's a good shift to

1107
00:51:14,370 --> 00:51:15,180
start there to do.

1108
00:51:15,180 --> 00:51:16,110
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1109
00:51:16,110 --> 00:51:17,040
Start there.

1110
00:51:17,130 --> 00:51:19,890
And then a lot of times they'll
say, well, I'm not really a salesy

1111
00:51:19,890 --> 00:51:23,910
kind of person, you know, I, look,
I'm not a used car salesman, kind

1112
00:51:23,910 --> 00:51:29,940
of a guy either, but nobody is this
passionate about your business than you.

1113
00:51:30,420 --> 00:51:34,410
You know, and nobody's gonna tell
your story about why you started

1114
00:51:34,410 --> 00:51:35,820
that business better than you.

1115
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:40,140
And so you gotta, I feel like you, you
have to go out and make those connections

1116
00:51:40,140 --> 00:51:44,430
with people as a, I'm not just a
sign, like, oh, I'm just a signed guy.

1117
00:51:44,435 --> 00:51:46,051
No, you're a business owner.

1118
00:51:46,980 --> 00:51:47,280
You know?

1119
00:51:47,285 --> 00:51:47,370
Right.

1120
00:51:47,430 --> 00:51:50,970
And so, and, and here's why you
would like to work with my business.

1121
00:51:50,970 --> 00:51:53,970
Now, it could be that you're going
back to your shop and like, holy crap,

1122
00:51:53,970 --> 00:51:55,050
how am I gonna get all this work done?

1123
00:51:55,050 --> 00:51:55,920
I gotta go do it myself.

1124
00:51:56,190 --> 00:51:59,760
But then I think the second sta, the
second stage there is trust, right?

1125
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:02,530
So you hire people.

1126
00:52:04,095 --> 00:52:06,675
I hear this a lot where it's
like, oh man, what's, what's

1127
00:52:06,675 --> 00:52:07,815
the bottleneck at your shop?

1128
00:52:07,995 --> 00:52:09,345
Well, I can't get quotes out the door.

1129
00:52:09,405 --> 00:52:10,485
Why can't get quotes out the door?

1130
00:52:10,485 --> 00:52:11,955
Because the owner keeps
everything in his head.

1131
00:52:12,105 --> 00:52:12,855
What's your schedule?

1132
00:52:12,855 --> 00:52:13,335
I don't know.

1133
00:52:13,515 --> 00:52:15,795
He keeps it all in his head, or
she keeps it all in her head.

1134
00:52:16,155 --> 00:52:20,085
And somehow you get a, you get a
shift out of that thinking and trust

1135
00:52:20,145 --> 00:52:21,646
the people that you hire, right?

1136
00:52:21,651 --> 00:52:24,135
That's where maybe system
development comes in place.

1137
00:52:24,525 --> 00:52:29,175
So if you're a great installer, you
love installing, but want to own and

1138
00:52:29,175 --> 00:52:33,525
install business, you're gonna have to
make these shifts in, you know, your

1139
00:52:33,525 --> 00:52:38,625
thinking about who you are and about
what you do at the business as far as

1140
00:52:38,625 --> 00:52:41,835
business development, like the work
you guys are doing with shop owners.

1141
00:52:42,075 --> 00:52:42,555
Great.

1142
00:52:43,245 --> 00:52:47,145
Um, I mean, what we do pro helping
provide systems and tools, great.

1143
00:52:47,235 --> 00:52:52,155
But they have to decide themselves that
they're gonna take these things and use

1144
00:52:52,155 --> 00:52:54,585
them to grow the business and grow people.

1145
00:52:55,365 --> 00:52:56,805
To run the business with them.

1146
00:52:57,165 --> 00:52:59,774
And if, and if they can't make
that shift, look, if you're a great

1147
00:52:59,774 --> 00:53:02,174
installer out there and you don't
think you can do all that stuff, just

1148
00:53:02,174 --> 00:53:03,674
go find a better company to work for.

1149
00:53:04,814 --> 00:53:07,245
Don't go start your own shop
cuz it'll drive you nuts.

1150
00:53:07,634 --> 00:53:07,995
I, I

1151
00:53:07,995 --> 00:53:08,595
agreed.

1152
00:53:08,625 --> 00:53:08,955
Agreed.

1153
00:53:08,955 --> 00:53:09,404
That yeah.

1154
00:53:09,404 --> 00:53:12,234
That's a, that's my
sentiment almost exactly.

1155
00:53:12,645 --> 00:53:17,205
Of like, Hey, if, if you're not
a business owner, it's okay.

1156
00:53:17,294 --> 00:53:20,955
Like, if, if that's not in your dna,
n a, it's not what makes you happy.

1157
00:53:20,955 --> 00:53:26,595
Like just because you can't make a
great living at the current shop that

1158
00:53:26,595 --> 00:53:31,785
you're at or, you know, or, or maybe
you've started out on your own and

1159
00:53:31,785 --> 00:53:35,174
you're going through this, like, it's
not too late to go the other way.

1160
00:53:35,174 --> 00:53:40,424
And there's no, there's plenty of shops
out there that are successful and treat

1161
00:53:40,430 --> 00:53:42,254
their employees well and pay well.

1162
00:53:42,254 --> 00:53:42,256
Mm-hmm.

1163
00:53:42,261 --> 00:53:42,736
And things like that.

1164
00:53:42,741 --> 00:53:42,915
Mm-hmm.

1165
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:44,625
It's just, just a matter of finding them.

1166
00:53:44,955 --> 00:53:45,134
Yeah.

1167
00:53:45,194 --> 00:53:45,615
They're out there.

1168
00:53:46,799 --> 00:53:51,540
The other, one thing that I wanted to
touch on before we let you go was just

1169
00:53:51,540 --> 00:53:54,060
like the, the mental health aspect.

1170
00:53:54,060 --> 00:53:58,710
I think you had, um, Sherry Walling
on like an episode of your podcast.

1171
00:53:59,250 --> 00:53:59,340
Mm-hmm.

1172
00:53:59,580 --> 00:54:05,310
And I loved her book of how to, I forget
the name of it now, how to like, be an

1173
00:54:05,315 --> 00:54:07,080
entrepreneur without losing your shit.

1174
00:54:07,380 --> 00:54:07,650
Yeah.

1175
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:11,549
And I, I re, I've read through that
book and I really like a lot of what

1176
00:54:11,549 --> 00:54:15,660
she said resonated with me because
I am, I'm like, I would call myself

1177
00:54:15,665 --> 00:54:17,670
a recovering workaholic of mm-hmm.

1178
00:54:18,270 --> 00:54:21,720
Like, I, I w you could
ask my wife and she might.

1179
00:54:22,045 --> 00:54:27,115
Say, not recovering or, but, but
certainly, you know, the, the

1180
00:54:27,115 --> 00:54:30,535
mental side of the, this industry,
like, we don't talk about a lot.

1181
00:54:30,535 --> 00:54:30,625
Mm-hmm.

1182
00:54:30,895 --> 00:54:36,025
Um, I talk to a lot of shop owners
that are working 60, 80 hours a week.

1183
00:54:36,030 --> 00:54:36,175
Mm-hmm.

1184
00:54:36,265 --> 00:54:41,845
And I, I think as you and I both
know, Pete knows it's usually not a

1185
00:54:41,845 --> 00:54:43,855
great recipe for success or mm-hmm.

1186
00:54:44,155 --> 00:54:45,445
Like, future success.

1187
00:54:45,505 --> 00:54:50,425
And I know you had some of your
own struggles with, uh, like

1188
00:54:50,425 --> 00:54:53,995
overwork at your sign shop, and
I, I've heard you talk about like

1189
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:55,765
alcohol and, and things like that.

1190
00:54:55,825 --> 00:54:59,185
Would you care to expand on
that just a little bit for our

1191
00:54:59,185 --> 00:54:59,695
listeners?

1192
00:55:00,055 --> 00:55:00,775
Sure.

1193
00:55:00,955 --> 00:55:01,345
Yeah.

1194
00:55:01,345 --> 00:55:05,005
I, I, I'm, I'm comfortable
talking about, about that.

1195
00:55:05,005 --> 00:55:10,915
So, you know, I think, I think
our brains need relief, right?

1196
00:55:10,915 --> 00:55:12,205
Like, we, we need relief.

1197
00:55:12,210 --> 00:55:18,655
We can't keep up with a 50, 60 plus hour
work week and keep our shit together.

1198
00:55:18,655 --> 00:55:19,945
It just doesn't work.

1199
00:55:20,425 --> 00:55:24,960
Um, and so, You have to do something
and, and just what we were talking

1200
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,420
about earlier, maybe it's a, a
matter of like building a team

1201
00:55:27,420 --> 00:55:28,680
and trusting and letting go.

1202
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:33,180
And, but you know, for me, you know,
I, I tend to be a control freak.

1203
00:55:33,180 --> 00:55:35,430
You know, I'm a little better
now that I'm a little older.

1204
00:55:35,430 --> 00:55:38,610
But, um, and so I would stay at the shop.

1205
00:55:38,610 --> 00:55:42,029
I was your typical guy that would
stay, work weekends and stay there,

1206
00:55:42,150 --> 00:55:43,620
you know, 40, 50 hours a week.

1207
00:55:43,620 --> 00:55:46,770
And, you know, and I, look, I
grew up in the seventies, right?

1208
00:55:46,770 --> 00:55:52,140
So if it wasn't tied down, you'd snorted
or smoke it, but, um, or drink it.

1209
00:55:52,620 --> 00:55:58,799
But, uh, you know, but, but, you know,
but if it, but you know, I mean, in

1210
00:55:58,799 --> 00:56:01,770
my, but then I got married really young
and I couldn't afford any of that crap.

1211
00:56:01,770 --> 00:56:03,839
And besides, I was trying
to be a better person.

1212
00:56:03,839 --> 00:56:07,529
And, uh, so I didn't, I didn't really
drink through my twenties and, and

1213
00:56:07,535 --> 00:56:09,180
into my thirties or any of that stuff.

1214
00:56:09,180 --> 00:56:13,020
But then, You know, work life started
just becoming harder and harder.

1215
00:56:13,020 --> 00:56:15,480
And I found myself like, oh, I'll
have a beer after work, or go out

1216
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,420
with clients and have some drinks,
or, you know, and this thing kind

1217
00:56:18,420 --> 00:56:19,710
of, you know, it snowballed, right?

1218
00:56:19,710 --> 00:56:23,700
So you do, you start doing one thing
to relieve the pressure, and ultimately

1219
00:56:23,700 --> 00:56:26,730
we know it doesn't work and, but
you tend to do more and more of it.

1220
00:56:26,735 --> 00:56:33,240
So I found myself, you know, year after
year del developing a, a bad habit

1221
00:56:33,240 --> 00:56:35,940
with it as a way of relieving pressure.

1222
00:56:35,940 --> 00:56:41,340
And so, um, towards the end when I
finally did, did stop drinking, um,

1223
00:56:42,090 --> 00:56:43,860
yeah, it was, it was becoming a problem.

1224
00:56:43,860 --> 00:56:46,800
I'm not talking about vodka bottles
under the kitchen sink kind of drinking,

1225
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:50,130
but it was every single night, you
know, and some days going, going to

1226
00:56:50,130 --> 00:56:51,270
work, you know, a little hungover.

1227
00:56:51,270 --> 00:56:56,940
So for me, what happened was I was in
between starting my, uh, in between

1228
00:56:56,970 --> 00:56:58,740
selling SciTech International.

1229
00:56:59,220 --> 00:57:02,100
And starting, uh, studio
o with my daughter.

1230
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:04,710
Um, I did work for a couple years
for another sign shop while we

1231
00:57:04,710 --> 00:57:07,740
were building sign tracker, selling
signs and, and, uh, I would stay at

1232
00:57:07,740 --> 00:57:09,720
that shop super late doing quotes.

1233
00:57:09,720 --> 00:57:13,920
And uh, sadly there was a
brewery in that parking lot.

1234
00:57:14,550 --> 00:57:17,730
And so we got to know that the
guys at the shop would go over

1235
00:57:17,730 --> 00:57:18,540
every night, drink, drinking.

1236
00:57:18,540 --> 00:57:21,210
It just became an every night ordeal.

1237
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:25,290
And so, uh, one night I was sitting at
my desk, I'm like three pints into doing

1238
00:57:25,290 --> 00:57:27,870
some quotes cause it was a smaller shop,
so I had to do my own quotes and stuff.

1239
00:57:28,350 --> 00:57:31,800
And one of the guys from the shop
just came up and said, Joe, he, he

1240
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:33,180
was pretty just blatant in my face.

1241
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:34,665
I think you're an alcoholic.

1242
00:57:34,755 --> 00:57:35,325
Ah, no.

1243
00:57:35,325 --> 00:57:40,545
You know, and, but he, he invited
me to an AA meeting and I went and

1244
00:57:40,545 --> 00:57:41,955
I started hearing all these stories.

1245
00:57:41,955 --> 00:57:44,115
I'm like, holy crap, maybe
I am an alcoholic, you know?

1246
00:57:44,385 --> 00:57:48,915
So I decided to take a 30 day
break on alcohol and it's turned

1247
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:51,105
into going on 10 years, so.

1248
00:57:51,135 --> 00:57:51,345
Wow.

1249
00:57:51,465 --> 00:57:51,755
Yeah.

1250
00:57:52,175 --> 00:57:55,965
But, you know, it doesn't mean that my
addicted brain has necessarily shut off.

1251
00:57:55,965 --> 00:58:00,015
I just took up running, I became like,
I became like the sign guy Fort Gump.

1252
00:58:00,405 --> 00:58:08,805
And so in, in 10 years I've run, uh,
20 marathons, a half a dozen trail,

1253
00:58:08,810 --> 00:58:10,835
runs a 50 mile trail run mountain runs.

1254
00:58:11,175 --> 00:58:14,415
I've done four half Iron Mans
and I'm looking at my ribbon

1255
00:58:14,415 --> 00:58:16,305
wall over there, but, oh, nice.

1256
00:58:16,635 --> 00:58:16,725
Okay.

1257
00:58:16,725 --> 00:58:22,935
So, yeah, so just act, you know, for me
it was like developing, uh, a spiritual

1258
00:58:22,935 --> 00:58:25,035
life, a better sense of self-worth.

1259
00:58:25,395 --> 00:58:29,835
And a lot of, uh, a hell of a
lot of exercising, you know,

1260
00:58:30,195 --> 00:58:31,935
and, uh, and yeah, it's worked.

1261
00:58:31,935 --> 00:58:34,455
You know, I, I definitely
feel like a happier, less

1262
00:58:34,460 --> 00:58:35,865
stressed out person these days.

1263
00:58:36,525 --> 00:58:39,405
Well, you, you definitely answered where
I was gonna take that next was like,

1264
00:58:39,945 --> 00:58:43,245
you know, what are, were the skills and
like the strategies that you developed

1265
00:58:43,245 --> 00:58:48,405
to, to combat the stress in instead
of, you know, I, I would say it like

1266
00:58:48,405 --> 00:58:51,765
misusing alcohol because I, I've been
there as well of like, Hey, I have

1267
00:58:51,825 --> 00:58:56,535
way too many beers a couple days in a
row, and I'm like, wait, like I, you

1268
00:58:56,540 --> 00:58:58,185
know, this is, this is not healthy.

1269
00:58:58,545 --> 00:58:59,565
So, yeah.

1270
00:58:59,565 --> 00:58:59,985
That's great.

1271
00:58:59,985 --> 00:59:00,735
You took up running.

1272
00:59:00,735 --> 00:59:03,945
And I would, I would encourage, like all
of our listeners, like if you're a shop

1273
00:59:03,945 --> 00:59:10,875
owner and you don't take time out of
the day to exercise, just like for me,

1274
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:14,145
I throw on a 30 pound, uh, BR backpack.

1275
00:59:14,145 --> 00:59:17,325
I've got a, like a flat weight
that sits in my backpack.

1276
00:59:17,835 --> 00:59:19,285
I an hour every day.

1277
00:59:20,130 --> 00:59:21,780
That's what I do to, that's awesome.

1278
00:59:21,780 --> 00:59:22,800
To, to de-stress.

1279
00:59:23,070 --> 00:59:27,120
But if you don't have that, like
you gotta start because you, you

1280
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:28,950
can't keep it all up here like Joe

1281
00:59:28,955 --> 00:59:29,280
said.

1282
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:30,690
No, you can't.

1283
00:59:30,690 --> 00:59:32,759
And, and, and it's different
for everybody, right?

1284
00:59:32,759 --> 00:59:35,520
Like, so you might, you know, you
might find that meditation, I use

1285
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:37,390
the Calm app, which is really good.

1286
00:59:38,050 --> 00:59:41,550
Um, and I'm, I wish I could say I
meditated every day, but I do try to

1287
00:59:41,550 --> 00:59:44,400
run, you know, at least four to five
days a week and bike a few days a week.

1288
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:46,230
And you just gotta find
what works for you.

1289
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:49,110
And, and I, I don't know if you, you know,
I don't know if you watched the whole

1290
00:59:49,110 --> 00:59:52,500
episode with Sherry Walling, the interview
that I did, but you know, I like what she

1291
00:59:52,500 --> 00:59:56,700
says a lot too, is get to a point your day
where you say that's it enough is enough.

1292
00:59:56,730 --> 00:59:58,710
I mean, there's gonna be times
when you push yourself and you're

1293
00:59:58,710 --> 01:00:01,890
gonna work those, you know, 15 hour
days cuz you gotta get stuff done.

1294
01:00:01,890 --> 01:00:06,030
But take a break point
and say, okay, I'm done.

1295
01:00:06,060 --> 01:00:09,600
I leave it here, breathe in whatever
you need to do to separate yourself

1296
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:12,810
mentally from the work and go home
with your family and enjoy that.

1297
01:00:12,815 --> 01:00:16,021
You know, and uh, maybe it's hitting
the gym on the way home for 45 minutes.

1298
01:00:16,026 --> 01:00:16,440
Who knows?

1299
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:18,270
But you gotta do something for sure.

1300
01:00:19,500 --> 01:00:19,980
Perfect.

1301
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:22,710
Well, Joe, uh, we
appreciate you coming on.

1302
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:25,920
It's been a, a really
interesting conversation.

1303
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:30,630
I was glad to, to have you back and, uh,
you know, I, I've really enjoyed this.

1304
01:00:30,630 --> 01:00:34,050
Looking forward to what you
guys do next with Sound Tracker.

1305
01:00:34,055 --> 01:00:38,610
Definitely keep us up to speed so we can,
you know, inform our audience on what you

1306
01:00:38,610 --> 01:00:43,770
guys are up to when you get that, uh, that
proof and pay feature that I know that'll

1307
01:00:43,770 --> 01:00:46,320
be very helpful for a lot of folks.

1308
01:00:46,325 --> 01:00:46,460
Yeah.

1309
01:00:46,610 --> 01:00:46,900
Yeah.

1310
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:51,150
Well, I appreciate you guys and I think
you're doing great work out there too.

1311
01:00:51,155 --> 01:00:54,570
You know, there's not, there's not
enough people out there helping

1312
01:00:54,570 --> 01:00:58,350
sign shop owners and, and you know,
we all need that support for sure.

1313
01:00:58,350 --> 01:00:59,700
So you guys are doing great work too.

1314
01:01:00,750 --> 01:01:01,350
Absolutely.

1315
01:01:01,470 --> 01:01:04,080
Pete got any closing comments?

1316
01:01:05,985 --> 01:01:07,275
This was one of my favorites.

1317
01:01:07,275 --> 01:01:08,475
Thank you so much, Joe.

1318
01:01:08,535 --> 01:01:11,175
I'm probably gonna touch base
with you a little bit offline.

1319
01:01:11,175 --> 01:01:14,355
I got some clients I think would
be great for your software.

1320
01:01:14,475 --> 01:01:14,865
All right.

1321
01:01:14,925 --> 01:01:18,465
Uh, love to connect with you a little
bit offline on that, but thank you

1322
01:01:18,465 --> 01:01:20,475
so much for jumping on here with us.

1323
01:01:20,505 --> 01:01:22,515
Um, I just sent Brian a private message.

1324
01:01:22,515 --> 01:01:25,635
I said this is not gonna be our
last time speaking with him and

1325
01:01:25,635 --> 01:01:27,195
having him on the show here.

1326
01:01:27,525 --> 01:01:30,075
Uh, thank you again for jumping
on and telling your story.

1327
01:01:30,155 --> 01:01:31,485
I, I, I learned a little bit.

1328
01:01:31,485 --> 01:01:32,535
I'm sure our listeners

1329
01:01:32,535 --> 01:01:32,955
did too.

1330
01:01:33,465 --> 01:01:34,935
Well, I appreciate you guys very much.

1331
01:01:35,455 --> 01:01:36,345
All excellent.

1332
01:01:36,350 --> 01:01:36,735
Thanks Jim.

1333
01:01:36,825 --> 01:01:37,095
Bye.

1334
01:01:39,015 --> 01:01:42,286
If you liked this episode, make
sure you hit subscribe to get all

1335
01:01:42,405 --> 01:01:47,175
the latest episodes and check out
our website, better sign shop.com.

1336
01:01:47,865 --> 01:01:51,165
Get free resources and helpful
tools on growing your shop.

1337
01:01:51,525 --> 01:01:52,515
Thanks for listening.