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Welcome back to another episode
of the Startup Therapy podcast.

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This is Ryan Rutan, joined
as always by my friend,

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the founder and CEO of
Startups.com, Will Schroeder.

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Will, as founders, we
don't really leave work.

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We just change rooms
while the startup keeps

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shouting in our minds.

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Mm-hmm.

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Uh, the real question isn't,
like, how do we stop thinking

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about the company, it's
how do we turn that 3:00 AM

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panic into something useful
before it eats us alive?

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When did you realize that
your startup brain wasn't

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solving problems anymore,
it was just burning fuel?

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It took me a while, but,
like, I remember... So

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this started in '94.

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Like, I started my
first startup in '94.

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Yeah.

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And I would argue that's the
year the problem started.

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That much I know for
sure, but it never ended.

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And, like- Uh-huh ... I thought
in the early years that worrying

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had a lot to do with ... Because
I didn't know a lot, right?

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You know, I was learning
everything for the first time.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Sure.

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So this, this worrying was
a facet of I'm gonna go in a

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room tomorrow, and I'm gonna
present to clients, or I'm

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going to talk to, you know,
my coworkers, et cetera.

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Right.

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I don't know what I'm doing,
so I'm very worried about that.

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That's legit worry- Sure.

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Yeah ... topic, right?

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And so I built a habit of just
worrying all the time, right?

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And I think part of
it is an OCD thing.

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Part of it is literally the
job of being a founder, right?

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Yeah.

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Like, our job is to be
worried about all the

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things that other people
aren't worried about because

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that's how we notice things.

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Uh, just f- funny quick aside,
years and years ago when I

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was running a company called
swaplease.com, Swaplease was,

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was, was originally founded
not by me, but by the Joseph

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Auto Group, which is this large
automotive dealership- Oh, yeah,

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yeah ... out of Cincinnati.

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And, um, I remember talking
to one of the Josephs.

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He's a fourth
generation car guy.

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Their great-grandfather had a
statue of him at the Chiquita

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Center in downtown Cincinnati.

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Like, that's how, like,
ingrained in the city they were.

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Yeah.

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Anyway, I thought
it was fascinating.

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And so one day he's telling
me about, uh, how he manages

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across all the dealerships.

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And I was like,
"Well, what do you do?

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Just like go in and walk
around?" He's like, "Yeah,

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this is exactly how our
family does it." Yeah.

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He's like, "And here's
what happens." I thought

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this was fascinating.

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He said, "We walk out on
the lot, and we look around.

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Are the cars dirty?

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You know, I run my
finger across the cars.

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Is there any dirt on it?

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I look at the salespeople.

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Where are they
standing right now?

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Are they standing all in the
back doing a smoke break?"

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Right? "I look at, uh, how many
people are here as customers

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and how many are being attended
to right this second." Yeah.

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And I was like, "That's it?

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You, you don't have, like,
metrics or performance?"

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He's like, "Nope. Everything
you need to know, you can just,

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uh, walk on the lot and start
worrying- Just see ... and

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it'll surface itself." What a

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luxury.

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Yeah.

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What a luxury.

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My God.

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It's like, "Oh, that's
interesting." But the

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mental model it gave me was
there's a job of worrying.

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There's a job that just involves
walking onto a lot, so to speak,

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you know, your startup- Yeah

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and seeing like, "Oh, why isn't
that working? Hey, that does,

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that shouldn't be where it's
at." Like, and just basically

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worrying about all the details.

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Well, I think as founders,
like, that is our job to walk

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on the lot and run your finger
across a random car and see,

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like, how much dust is on it.

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Like, to look at all
the details- Yeah

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that most people
aren't looking at.

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But in order to have that frame
of mind, you've gotta constantly

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be worrying, I thought.

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Mm-hmm.

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Like, and at some point, to
answer your question, I realized

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to myself, like, I wonder if
I could get great at this.

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I wonder if I could- Right
... get great at worrying, right?

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And I know it sounds
contradictory, but I feel

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like I've kinda done a good
job with it, which means I've

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also had to stop worrying.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, no, I think it is.

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I mean, if you go back to
the, the metaphor, right?

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So, like, if you have to
walk the lot, you might as

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well be really good at it.

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You might as well
figure out, like, how

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do I take these inputs?

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I'm gonna be doing this anyways.

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I, I might as well do it.

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Because otherwise, it just
ends up being like fear dressed

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up as responsibility, right?

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And we tell ourselves
to be vigilant.

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Awesome.

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Say that again.

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What's that?

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It's fear dressed up
as responsibility.

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I've never heard that framing.

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That's brilliant.

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I like that a lot.

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Yeah, so I... That's what
it feels like, man, right?

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Like, uh, because we, we tell
ourselves that we're, we're

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trying to be vigilant, right?

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Yeah.

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But a lot of times we're
just trying to feel in

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control of something that is
inherently uncontrollable.

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It's a startup, right?

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Yeah.

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Most of it is absolutely
out of control, but our poor

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founder brains just feel
like rest is negligence.

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Yeah.

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And so then we start
to conflate constant

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attention with protection.

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My fear was always that not just
that the company's gonna break-

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But that if it breaks while I'm
not thinking about it, we'll

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blame ourselves forever, right?

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It was, it was almost like
for me- Right, right ... it

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was like, as long as I'm
actually worried about this,

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even if it goes sideways,
I can say, "Man, I was all

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over that and I just didn't
figure it out," as opposed to,

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"I got blindsided by that."

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Well, it, it occurred to
me as I was say- talking

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through this, there, there
was such an analog to, like,

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having newborns where, like,
you're laying there in bed-

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Yep ... and you're like, "Is
the baby breathing? The baby's

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probably not breathing." Yep.

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"The baby might not be
breathing. I'm gonna go check

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the baby." But the baby was
always breathing, right?

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Yeah.

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Like, thank God.

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Thankfully,

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yeah.

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Um, but like that was that
feeling, and it was like,

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if I don't get up and go
check, like of course the

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baby's probably breathing,
but if I don't go check,

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I'll never forgive myself.

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That was what it felt like.

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There's a healthy
amount of that, right?

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But I think for what
we do, there is a very

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unhealthy level of that.

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Oh, for sure.

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A couple years into my, uh,
career, th- this is '96,

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I'm walking through Barnes
& Noble back when bookstores

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still existed, and I look
at, like, the number one

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selling business book at the
time, and I was all about

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business books at the time.

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I remember it was Andy
Grove, you know, one of

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the co-founders of Intel.

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Oh, yeah.

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And I'll never forget
the title said, "Only the

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Paranoid Survive." Oh my God.

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And for some reason-

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Thanks for that, Andy

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... 
thanks, Andy, right?

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Like, for some reason that got
burned into my brain, right?

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Oh, yeah.

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And maybe it was already
there, like maybe it was just

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like reinforcing my, like,
psychotic personality trait.

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But I remember thinking, well,
if Andy Grove feels that way at

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the height of Intel- Yeah, yeah
... right, and that was the title

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of his book, like what's the-
Right ... fuck up by the way?

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A guy writes one book
and that's the title.

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I was like, maybe there's
something to that.

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And so over the years and
decades that would ensue,

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as I spent countless
hours at 3:00 a.m.

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staring at the ceiling,
including yesterday at 3:00

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a.m. staring at the ceiling,
I thought to myself, I was

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like Why can't I stop, right?

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Yeah.

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Like, like why is it everyone
else seems to be just fine

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going to work, leaving work,
going home and dealing with

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whatever life problems, but like
basically not worrying, right?

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Yeah.

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About the stuff that I worry
about, which is everything.

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I think part of it is I still
believe, this is, you know,

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personally, I still believe that
I'm waiting for it all to end.

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Like in my life, you know,
you and I have talked about

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this before, I'm still waiting
for the other shoe to drop.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Like my entire life has
been me going, "Well, I'm

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glad things went well, but
this'll end soon." Right?

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Right.

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And I'm just like, like,
you know, one step away

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from all of it ending.

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And I look back and like I
somehow made it 32 years without

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it ending yet, knock on wood.

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But I've never lost that feeling
that this is the last dance.

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It's almost like a weird
founder superstition, right?

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Yeah.

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Like if I stop worrying,
I'm inviting disaster.

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I'm, I'm gonna let it
cross the threshold.

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Like my anxiety is
somehow what's keeping

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the servers online-
Yeah ... what's keeping Stripe

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transactions happening, right?

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Trying to, yeah.

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Uh-huh, uh-huh.

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I always have this little
thing, this conversation

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that I have with myself at
3:00 in the morning where

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I'm like, "Dude, not again."

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I'm like, like we know
how this story ends.

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And, and, and here's
what I thought was

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fascinating about it.

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I'm laying in bed and, you
know, all of a sudden I

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wake up and I'm like, "Oh,
fuck. Here we go," right?

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And I'm like, I already
know what's gonna happen.

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I'm gonna take inventory
of everything that I should

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w- worried about right now.

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Yep.

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I'm gonna pretend that I
can solve every one of those

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problems while lying- Oh,
yeah ... in bed at 3:00

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in the morning, right?

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And the entire time I'm
just like, "Brain, shut

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the fuck up," right?

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Yeah.

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Just, just stop.

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Like you're not being
helpful right now.

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Right.

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Like none of this is useful.

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And I know where it comes from.

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I don't really wanna
solve a problem.

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I'm manifesting fear, right?

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Like I'm manifesting just
a lifetime worth of fears-

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On whatever problems
happen to exist today.

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Yes.

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And the reality is, the
problems changed year to

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year to year, but how I dealt
with them did not at all.

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Man, I've even seen it when
there are no problems, like

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fear will still manifest, right?

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'Cause then, then you have
to ask yourself, right, am I

244
00:08:09,876 --> 00:08:12,756
afraid to stop thinking about
my business because the company

245
00:08:12,756 --> 00:08:16,786
needs me to do that, or am I
afraid that it doesn't, right?

246
00:08:16,786 --> 00:08:17,036
Right.

247
00:08:17,036 --> 00:08:18,575
We never let it rest, man.

248
00:08:18,575 --> 00:08:21,196
Like, how many founders, how
many times have you taken a

249
00:08:21,196 --> 00:08:23,836
vacation, Will, and, or you like
spent the entire time mentally

250
00:08:23,836 --> 00:08:26,895
doing disaster simulations
from your beach chair, right?

251
00:08:26,895 --> 00:08:28,615
'Cause I know you're not just
sitting there reading a book.

252
00:08:28,705 --> 00:08:30,106
That's exactly what I
was just thinking as,

253
00:08:30,106 --> 00:08:30,845
as you were talking.

254
00:08:30,845 --> 00:08:33,176
I was like- Yeah ... have I
ever taken a vacation that

255
00:08:33,205 --> 00:08:34,525
actually felt like a vacation?

256
00:08:34,525 --> 00:08:35,545
'Cause I can't think of one.

257
00:08:35,545 --> 00:08:35,725
Nope.

258
00:08:35,996 --> 00:08:38,095
And then I was thinking,
have I ever taken a vacation

259
00:08:38,095 --> 00:08:39,236
where things have gone wrong?

260
00:08:39,615 --> 00:08:41,665
And the answer is
yes, like a lot.

261
00:08:41,665 --> 00:08:41,786
Yeah.

262
00:08:41,786 --> 00:08:43,086
Almost like comically.

263
00:08:43,486 --> 00:08:45,996
Like years ago, you'll
remember this, I was on a,

264
00:08:45,996 --> 00:08:48,935
a vacation and I was taking
my daughter Summer to, to

265
00:08:48,935 --> 00:08:50,356
Comic-Con, right, in San Diego.

266
00:08:50,466 --> 00:08:51,155
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

267
00:08:51,435 --> 00:08:51,716
Yeah.

268
00:08:51,786 --> 00:08:52,836
'
Cause I know where
this is going.

269
00:08:52,915 --> 00:08:53,246
This, I remember this.

270
00:08:53,246 --> 00:08:55,246
Yeah, I've been wanting to
go to Comic-Con fucking ever.

271
00:08:55,246 --> 00:08:56,216
Like I'm a huge Marvel nerd.

272
00:08:56,216 --> 00:08:56,306
Yep.

273
00:08:56,396 --> 00:08:58,455
So like, you know, I, like
I couldn't wait to go.

274
00:08:58,655 --> 00:09:01,345
And the fact that my daughter
was old enough to make it

275
00:09:01,345 --> 00:09:03,945
look like I was taking her
for her benefit and not mine-

276
00:09:03,985 --> 00:09:04,156
Yeah,

277
00:09:04,186 --> 00:09:05,686
yeah ... um, was just perfect.

278
00:09:05,786 --> 00:09:08,085
Um, at some point I'll go
with, with my son Will,

279
00:09:08,085 --> 00:09:08,985
and I can't imagine.

280
00:09:08,985 --> 00:09:09,796
I'll be there for a month.

281
00:09:09,896 --> 00:09:14,426
Anyway, point is, as we're
driving down, I get a call from

282
00:09:14,426 --> 00:09:17,976
our CTO, and he's like, "Hey,
our system's been hacked."

283
00:09:18,667 --> 00:09:21,318
And I'm like, "Okay," right?

284
00:09:21,697 --> 00:09:23,157
And this is, this is
my thought process.

285
00:09:23,197 --> 00:09:24,987
My first thought process,
I need to turn around right

286
00:09:24,987 --> 00:09:27,457
now, go back, as I live
in LA, like go back to

287
00:09:27,457 --> 00:09:28,348
LA and go deal with this.

288
00:09:28,717 --> 00:09:30,558
But then I'm like, my daughter's
sitting in the car with me,

289
00:09:30,558 --> 00:09:32,827
like we're literally driving
to Comic-Con as I say- And

290
00:09:32,827 --> 00:09:34,058
I'm dressed as Batman.

291
00:09:34,207 --> 00:09:35,047
Yeah, exactly right.

292
00:09:35,078 --> 00:09:36,228
I was Fat Deadpool, but yeah.

293
00:09:36,367 --> 00:09:37,388
And so we get there.

294
00:09:37,668 --> 00:09:40,228
While it's happening,
Comic-Con's overwhelming, right?

295
00:09:40,228 --> 00:09:41,527
It's just massive,
like show floor.

296
00:09:41,728 --> 00:09:41,787
Yeah.

297
00:09:41,867 --> 00:09:44,338
And mainly all my daughter
cared about w- was the,

298
00:09:44,508 --> 00:09:46,097
the vendor convention
where you could buy shit.

299
00:09:46,588 --> 00:09:48,558
Yeah, and s- so anyway,
we're walking the, the, the

300
00:09:48,558 --> 00:09:53,178
convention floor, and all I
can think about, not Comic-Con,

301
00:09:53,388 --> 00:09:55,788
not this awesome opportunity
with my daughter, how like

302
00:09:55,818 --> 00:09:57,018
over the moon she is- Yeah

303
00:09:57,178 --> 00:09:59,428
or how many other Fat
Deadpools there are, right?

304
00:09:59,707 --> 00:10:02,748
It's, "Holy shit, we got
hacked. I need to get out of

305
00:10:02,748 --> 00:10:04,448
here as fast as possible and
do something about it." Right.

306
00:10:04,878 --> 00:10:05,608
Now full stop.

307
00:10:05,807 --> 00:10:08,038
There is nothing I can
do about it, right?

308
00:10:08,038 --> 00:10:09,757
Like- Right ... I'm
not the anti-hacker.

309
00:10:09,757 --> 00:10:12,147
There's nothing like
I can do, right?

310
00:10:12,338 --> 00:10:12,658
Yes.

311
00:10:13,297 --> 00:10:15,457
And yet I'm like, "Here's
what's gonna happen.

312
00:10:15,557 --> 00:10:18,297
I'm gonna erase everything
happening that isn't this

313
00:10:18,297 --> 00:10:20,178
problem and focus on that."

314
00:10:20,408 --> 00:10:21,417
It's so brutal.

315
00:10:21,487 --> 00:10:23,527
W- with the, and then like
you just described something

316
00:10:23,527 --> 00:10:25,648
that I've, I've caught myself
doing so many times, which is

317
00:10:25,648 --> 00:10:29,627
like this difference between
thinking and, and just looping.

318
00:10:29,837 --> 00:10:30,087
Right.

319
00:10:30,087 --> 00:10:32,707
Where like thinking, in my
opinion, like it produces

320
00:10:32,707 --> 00:10:33,737
options of some sort.

321
00:10:33,737 --> 00:10:35,788
There's something I can
do as a result of it.

322
00:10:35,947 --> 00:10:36,127
Yeah.

323
00:10:36,207 --> 00:10:38,727
Looping, on the other hand,
produces cortisol, which

324
00:10:38,727 --> 00:10:40,508
also then produces belly fat.

325
00:10:40,548 --> 00:10:42,888
Um, I can tell you that
is working just fine.

326
00:10:43,148 --> 00:10:45,057
And I think that, you know,
once the, the mental activity

327
00:10:45,057 --> 00:10:47,987
stops creating decisions,
it's no longer work, right?

328
00:10:48,017 --> 00:10:50,748
It's, it's just suffering
with our startup logo

329
00:10:50,748 --> 00:10:52,947
stamped right in the middle
of it, and it's like it's

330
00:10:52,947 --> 00:10:54,157
not helping at all, right?

331
00:10:54,188 --> 00:10:57,157
If you can't take action
on it, stop, and yet

332
00:10:57,568 --> 00:10:58,618
damn is that hard to do.

333
00:10:58,758 --> 00:11:00,767
This just brings us
back to 3:00 AM, right?

334
00:11:01,248 --> 00:11:03,818
3:00 AM- Yeah ... like tonight
at 3:00 AM, I'm gonna wake up.

335
00:11:03,818 --> 00:11:06,807
Now, in this past year, the past
six months, I finally learned

336
00:11:06,807 --> 00:11:09,678
how to get like a slightly more
normal sleep schedule, but in

337
00:11:09,678 --> 00:11:12,318
last year, I would just wake
up at 4:00 AM, and I'm like,

338
00:11:12,318 --> 00:11:13,057
"Ah, this problem's solved."

339
00:11:13,057 --> 00:11:13,468
Yeah, I remember.

340
00:11:13,468 --> 00:11:15,618
Yeah, I was like you weren't
waking up at 3:00 AM in worry.

341
00:11:15,618 --> 00:11:17,017
You were just waking
up and starting.

342
00:11:17,207 --> 00:11:19,057
Yeah, it was like I
beat the worry problem.

343
00:11:19,057 --> 00:11:21,218
Instead of laying a bit
awake, I'd just go to work.

344
00:11:21,498 --> 00:11:23,318
And sadly that was, really
was my answer at the time.

345
00:11:23,347 --> 00:11:25,798
Anyway, but, but when this
happens, like when this,

346
00:11:26,008 --> 00:11:28,567
this spiral happens, and it
happens all the time- Yeah

347
00:11:29,158 --> 00:11:32,057
over time I've gotten better
at doing something about it.

348
00:11:32,057 --> 00:11:35,417
Now, the problem with the 3:00
AM one is that I'm not in a

349
00:11:35,417 --> 00:11:36,628
position to do anything with it.

350
00:11:36,798 --> 00:11:36,888
Right.

351
00:11:37,067 --> 00:11:40,608
But if it happens at 3:00
PM, I'm like, okay, you know,

352
00:11:40,658 --> 00:11:44,078
now I've got a better idea of
how to be able to take that

353
00:11:44,078 --> 00:11:47,417
nervous energy and do something
with it, because at 3:00 AM

354
00:11:47,447 --> 00:11:48,598
I can't do anything with it.

355
00:11:48,908 --> 00:11:52,927
And if I were to go back and
I were to count- All of the

356
00:11:52,927 --> 00:11:56,807
collective hours that I've
spent at 3:00 AM working

357
00:11:56,807 --> 00:12:00,717
on problems, you take 365
days of the year, 'cause it,

358
00:12:00,908 --> 00:12:02,717
it, not counting weekends,
I don't think about it.

359
00:12:02,717 --> 00:12:03,847
Sometimes the
weekends are worse.

360
00:12:03,988 --> 00:12:04,057
Yep.

361
00:12:04,437 --> 00:12:07,257
Times 30 years or more, right?

362
00:12:07,677 --> 00:12:09,227
Times at least one or two hours.

363
00:12:09,668 --> 00:12:14,277
That's 10 to 20,000 hours-
Yes ... that I've spent- Well,

364
00:12:14,877 --> 00:12:16,297
that's all it takes
to master something.

365
00:12:17,158 --> 00:12:19,297
I looked at that
the other day and I

366
00:12:19,297 --> 00:12:22,658
said, "Nailed it. Nailed it."
Dude, I look at that and I'm

367
00:12:22,658 --> 00:12:26,138
like, holy cow, how could
you invest that much time in

368
00:12:26,188 --> 00:12:29,807
anything and have negative
results to show for it, right?

369
00:12:29,807 --> 00:12:29,868
Yeah.

370
00:12:29,868 --> 00:12:30,857
And I'm not worried about that.

371
00:12:31,317 --> 00:12:33,898
But I, I guess what I
have learned, what I have

372
00:12:33,898 --> 00:12:38,798
learned is that all of that
energy is still energy.

373
00:12:39,357 --> 00:12:44,508
In fact, it's pretty good
energy But not like, you

374
00:12:44,508 --> 00:12:46,348
could put toward other things,
like literally anything else.

375
00:12:47,187 --> 00:12:49,098
But when you're just, uh,
what you said a moment ago

376
00:12:49,098 --> 00:12:50,657
just stuck with me, this loop.

377
00:12:51,188 --> 00:12:51,277
Yes.

378
00:12:51,358 --> 00:12:53,207
When you're just in this
worry loop where you feel

379
00:12:53,207 --> 00:12:55,997
like worrying, like I was
doing at Comic-Con, is the

380
00:12:55,997 --> 00:12:57,927
action, you lose every time.

381
00:12:58,438 --> 00:13:00,567
But we spend a lot of time
doing it, you know what I mean?

382
00:13:00,948 --> 00:13:01,468
Yeah, man.

383
00:13:01,548 --> 00:13:03,307
But I think that's
exactly it, right?

384
00:13:03,307 --> 00:13:06,167
Like, when it starts to
masquerade as problem-solving-

385
00:13:06,167 --> 00:13:10,257
Mm-hmm ... those worry loops
become super toxic, super fast.

386
00:13:10,708 --> 00:13:13,417
I have gotten to the point where
I realized, and I was like, "I

387
00:13:13,417 --> 00:13:15,118
can't just make myself stop."

388
00:13:15,518 --> 00:13:17,697
So I started looking for
replacement behaviors, and,

389
00:13:17,697 --> 00:13:19,408
and the one that actually
worked well for me is a

390
00:13:19,408 --> 00:13:20,478
little bit of breathwork.

391
00:13:20,627 --> 00:13:23,007
So when I catch myself
doing that at 3:00 or 4:00

392
00:13:23,007 --> 00:13:25,537
in the morning, I'm like,
"Okay, we're gonna box

393
00:13:25,537 --> 00:13:27,188
breathe our way through
this," and it's just, and I

394
00:13:27,188 --> 00:13:28,678
get into that loop instead.

395
00:13:29,107 --> 00:13:31,818
And then before I finish the
loop, I inevitably just end

396
00:13:31,818 --> 00:13:34,228
up falling back to sleep, and
that's been pretty helpful.

397
00:13:34,557 --> 00:13:38,487
But I'm still surprised
how long it takes me

398
00:13:38,487 --> 00:13:39,688
to realize sometimes.

399
00:13:39,688 --> 00:13:41,557
A part of it's just like the,
you know, you wake up 3:00 in

400
00:13:41,557 --> 00:13:44,287
the morning, you're not exactly
like, you know, super sharp.

401
00:13:44,287 --> 00:13:46,327
You just wake up and you're
like, "Okay, what's going on?"

402
00:13:46,807 --> 00:13:49,947
And it's really fascinating
to me, like it can take half

403
00:13:49,947 --> 00:13:51,358
an hour sometimes before
I realize what I'm doing.

404
00:13:51,358 --> 00:13:54,517
I'm like, "Oh my God, I'm
laying in bed, uh, acting like

405
00:13:54,517 --> 00:13:56,578
I'm, I'm having a discussion
in a boardroom right now.

406
00:13:56,578 --> 00:13:57,057
I'm not.

407
00:13:57,057 --> 00:13:58,617
This is me by myself.

408
00:13:58,617 --> 00:13:59,617
This is not working.

409
00:13:59,617 --> 00:14:00,627
This is just worrying."

410
00:14:00,767 --> 00:14:00,937
Yep.

411
00:14:00,968 --> 00:14:02,598
"
No decision is gonna
come out of this."

412
00:14:02,598 --> 00:14:02,708
Yep.

413
00:14:02,708 --> 00:14:05,578
"There's no strategy here. This
is just endless rumination,

414
00:14:05,578 --> 00:14:07,437
and it needs to stop," right?

415
00:14:07,437 --> 00:14:11,377
But boy, does my anxiety
love pretending that it's

416
00:14:11,377 --> 00:14:13,737
productivity- Yep ... and
try to convince me of that.

417
00:14:14,117 --> 00:14:14,718
You know what's interesting?

418
00:14:14,788 --> 00:14:17,388
You kinda mentioned this a
moment ago, but like at no point

419
00:14:17,388 --> 00:14:18,638
in my life has it gone away.

420
00:14:19,197 --> 00:14:21,737
So one of the things that, that
I always think is fascinating,

421
00:14:21,788 --> 00:14:24,737
uh, with folks is that we
all believe that if we just

422
00:14:24,737 --> 00:14:28,068
hit this milestone, that the
thing will go away, right?

423
00:14:28,068 --> 00:14:29,727
The, the most obvious-
Yeah ... is money, right?

424
00:14:29,727 --> 00:14:31,947
People are like, "Hey, I'm
broke now. If I was not broke,

425
00:14:31,947 --> 00:14:34,447
my problems would go away."
There's some truth to that.

426
00:14:34,888 --> 00:14:37,498
Where that gets lost is
that you don't understand

427
00:14:37,498 --> 00:14:39,617
that that wasn't always
the core of your problems.

428
00:14:39,807 --> 00:14:39,898
Right.

429
00:14:39,968 --> 00:14:41,888
It was just a very
obvious manifestation.

430
00:14:42,057 --> 00:14:43,377
I see this in
marriages all the time.

431
00:14:43,758 --> 00:14:45,337
The husband and wife are
like, "Hey, you know, we're

432
00:14:45,337 --> 00:14:47,087
having all these problems,
but it's about money." No,

433
00:14:47,087 --> 00:14:48,477
money's the catalyst, right?

434
00:14:48,697 --> 00:14:48,778
Uh-huh.

435
00:14:48,778 --> 00:14:50,258
But if you had a ton of
money, you still wouldn't

436
00:14:50,258 --> 00:14:51,267
like each other, right?

437
00:14:51,267 --> 00:14:54,678
Like- Right ... what you don't
realize is money is just a, a

438
00:14:54,678 --> 00:14:55,877
way for you to communicate that.

439
00:14:56,258 --> 00:14:57,907
Yeah, said differently, if,
if you were having, if your

440
00:14:57,907 --> 00:15:00,398
relationship was amazing and
you ran out of money, your

441
00:15:00,398 --> 00:15:02,517
relationship wouldn't break
just because of that, right?

442
00:15:02,517 --> 00:15:02,818
Correct.

443
00:15:02,937 --> 00:15:03,247
Right.

444
00:15:03,247 --> 00:15:03,277
The,

445
00:15:03,487 --> 00:15:04,398
the converse is true as well.

446
00:15:04,668 --> 00:15:08,198
And so, uh, again, having
been on both sides of the

447
00:15:08,198 --> 00:15:11,318
have money, uh, spectrum,
I'll take the have money over

448
00:15:11,467 --> 00:15:12,997
not having money- Yeah, yeah,
yeah ... any more than you

449
00:15:12,997 --> 00:15:13,907
can afford these outcomes.

450
00:15:14,318 --> 00:15:17,148
But I gotta tell you, man, when
I was 19 years old starting a

451
00:15:17,148 --> 00:15:21,332
company, a CEO of a company, and
I was dead broke- I was awake

452
00:15:21,332 --> 00:15:25,712
at, at, at 3:00 in the morning
having the same thoughts- Yeah

453
00:15:25,712 --> 00:15:28,012
that I do over 30
years later, right?

454
00:15:28,041 --> 00:15:28,101
Yeah.

455
00:15:28,251 --> 00:15:30,401
Now, the context of
them has changed.

456
00:15:30,821 --> 00:15:34,232
Whereas like when I was 19,
and I'll use this as a bit

457
00:15:34,232 --> 00:15:37,962
of an analog, I guess, for
first time founders, right?

458
00:15:38,171 --> 00:15:38,232
Yeah.

459
00:15:38,281 --> 00:15:40,402
A lot less to do with age
and a lot less to- more to

460
00:15:40,402 --> 00:15:42,742
do with inexperience of doing
this, the startup thing.

461
00:15:42,902 --> 00:15:45,752
I think for a lot of folks,
they're like, "Well, if I knew

462
00:15:45,752 --> 00:15:48,541
more about what I was doing,
I'd have more confidence.

463
00:15:48,582 --> 00:15:51,742
I would have, you know, uh,
more certainty about it." It

464
00:15:51,742 --> 00:15:54,982
kinda goes the other direction.
Yeah. Which is like now at

465
00:15:54,982 --> 00:15:57,241
3:00 AM when I'm worried about
stuff- Yeah ... I'm like,

466
00:15:57,601 --> 00:15:59,912
"Dude, what sucks is I actually
already know this stuff.

467
00:15:59,952 --> 00:16:00,971
This isn't like a-"
Yeah ... question of

468
00:16:00,971 --> 00:16:02,121
my credibility anymore.

469
00:16:02,121 --> 00:16:03,452
Like, I know this stuff cold.

470
00:16:03,452 --> 00:16:03,522
Right.

471
00:16:04,112 --> 00:16:05,101
And I'm still worried.

472
00:16:05,452 --> 00:16:05,932
Still worried.

473
00:16:05,962 --> 00:16:08,322
No, man, to me it was like
the, the more I know about

474
00:16:08,322 --> 00:16:10,612
something, it's kinda like
juggling knives, right?

475
00:16:10,612 --> 00:16:12,272
If I don't know very
much, I'm kinda playing

476
00:16:12,272 --> 00:16:13,131
around with one knife.

477
00:16:13,131 --> 00:16:15,381
By the time I know a lot
about it, I'm juggling

478
00:16:15,381 --> 00:16:17,412
a whole bunch of knives
at the same time, right?

479
00:16:17,412 --> 00:16:20,112
It just, it seems to get
progressively worse, and I

480
00:16:20,112 --> 00:16:21,702
think part of that is like
the more you learn about

481
00:16:21,702 --> 00:16:24,331
something, the more you realize
how much more there actually

482
00:16:24,331 --> 00:16:25,531
is to learn about it or-

483
00:16:25,561 --> 00:16:25,762
Yeah

484
00:16:25,902 --> 00:16:27,472
... 
how easy it is for
it to go wrong.

485
00:16:27,472 --> 00:16:28,311
When you don't know,
you don't know.

486
00:16:28,311 --> 00:16:31,241
Like, ignorance truly is
bliss in so many ways.

487
00:16:31,372 --> 00:16:35,292
Building on that, so in a
lot of cases, like saying,

488
00:16:35,322 --> 00:16:37,881
"I don't have money, but
money would solve it," is a

489
00:16:37,881 --> 00:16:40,991
really nice way to close the
door on that problem because-

490
00:16:40,991 --> 00:16:43,622
Yeah ... hey, it's something
I don't have, but when I do

491
00:16:43,622 --> 00:16:45,351
have it- Yeah ... the problem
will solve itself, which is

492
00:16:45,351 --> 00:16:47,682
almost like, like literally how
everybody thinks about money.

493
00:16:48,021 --> 00:16:50,171
They're like, "Ah-" Yeah ... "if
I just had money, I would

494
00:16:50,171 --> 00:16:53,582
be happy." Like, you'd have
less of those problems, but

495
00:16:53,582 --> 00:16:55,851
you're gonna introduce new
ones, and if you were a shitty

496
00:16:55,851 --> 00:16:58,341
person before money, you'll
just be a shitty person with

497
00:16:58,341 --> 00:16:59,411
more money later, right?

498
00:16:59,411 --> 00:17:00,591
You're like, oh, you know, um-

499
00:17:00,591 --> 00:17:01,591
Just a rich, shitty person.

500
00:17:01,701 --> 00:17:06,021
Exactly, and I think one of
the, the biggest challenges

501
00:17:06,021 --> 00:17:08,652
people have in life when it
comes to wealth and things

502
00:17:08,652 --> 00:17:11,892
like that is it's so easy
to say that I don't have it.

503
00:17:12,131 --> 00:17:14,531
So again, when they say, "Well,
when I did have it, I would have

504
00:17:14,531 --> 00:17:17,091
this problem paying my mortgage
or paying my, my landlord-" Yeah

505
00:17:17,091 --> 00:17:18,262
... or whatever," that is true.

506
00:17:19,285 --> 00:17:22,595
But for you to think that
your brain just stops having

507
00:17:22,595 --> 00:17:25,146
problems is pretty wrong, right?

508
00:17:25,575 --> 00:17:28,575
And so when I look at myself at
two different moments in time,

509
00:17:28,575 --> 00:17:33,306
like 19-year-old Will and, and
51-year-old Will, it is shocking

510
00:17:33,855 --> 00:17:38,036
how common, like, my base set
of issues still is, right?

511
00:17:38,036 --> 00:17:38,096
Yeah.

512
00:17:38,096 --> 00:17:40,166
How, like, kind of
nothing has changed.

513
00:17:40,586 --> 00:17:42,475
Like, I've got far
more experience.

514
00:17:42,475 --> 00:17:45,346
Like, I've got that, that meta
experience where you've gone

515
00:17:45,346 --> 00:17:47,455
through the problem before and
you're like, "Okay, I have the

516
00:17:47,455 --> 00:17:49,485
experience of the problem,"
which is unique, right?

517
00:17:49,485 --> 00:17:49,575
Yeah.

518
00:17:49,756 --> 00:17:52,286
Like the equivalent of like,
I've gone through a divorce,

519
00:17:52,286 --> 00:17:54,155
or I've, I've gone through
a company shutdown, or

520
00:17:54,155 --> 00:17:54,806
I've gone through whatever.

521
00:17:54,806 --> 00:17:54,935
Yep.

522
00:17:54,935 --> 00:17:55,025
Yeah.

523
00:17:55,025 --> 00:17:57,896
Like having the experience of
having a full life cycle of a

524
00:17:57,896 --> 00:17:59,826
problem is incredibly powerful.

525
00:18:00,525 --> 00:18:02,806
However, it still sucks.

526
00:18:02,885 --> 00:18:02,946
Yeah.

527
00:18:03,496 --> 00:18:04,435
It still, it still goes through.

528
00:18:04,435 --> 00:18:04,516
And,

529
00:18:04,516 --> 00:18:06,815
and honestly, like I can
think of at least a couple

530
00:18:06,815 --> 00:18:10,135
scenarios where by having been
through it before actually

531
00:18:10,135 --> 00:18:11,326
gave me more to worry about.

532
00:18:11,775 --> 00:18:14,306
Well, like if they didn't
end well the first time.

533
00:18:14,405 --> 00:18:16,545
Like, that's what
killed my first startup.

534
00:18:16,545 --> 00:18:17,775
Shit, here it
comes again, right?

535
00:18:17,775 --> 00:18:17,836
Yeah.

536
00:18:17,836 --> 00:18:18,086
There you go.

537
00:18:18,086 --> 00:18:18,146
Yeah.

538
00:18:18,146 --> 00:18:20,005
Because you've been through
that before, and it ended

539
00:18:20,005 --> 00:18:21,676
that way, doesn't mean you're
gonna do better with it.

540
00:18:22,076 --> 00:18:24,635
Or just like some of it's
probably just PTSD, right?

541
00:18:24,676 --> 00:18:24,756
Yeah.

542
00:18:24,756 --> 00:18:25,046
For sure.

543
00:18:25,046 --> 00:18:25,106
Yeah.

544
00:18:25,106 --> 00:18:26,356
It's like you've
been through this.

545
00:18:26,646 --> 00:18:29,796
You know what a pain in the
ass it was to solve and how

546
00:18:29,796 --> 00:18:32,335
much work it took, and that
it didn't really make anything

547
00:18:32,335 --> 00:18:34,565
great at the end, it just wasn't
as much of a problem anymore.

548
00:18:35,146 --> 00:18:36,055
That can be really hard.

549
00:18:36,055 --> 00:18:39,256
I think part of the bliss of
ignorance is like if you know

550
00:18:39,256 --> 00:18:42,165
you have to go run a marathon
and you're barefoot and all

551
00:18:42,165 --> 00:18:44,366
you can see is broken glass
in front of you, and you know

552
00:18:44,366 --> 00:18:47,055
how long a marathon is, it's
gonna suck the entire time.

553
00:18:47,406 --> 00:18:49,635
If somebody's just like,
"Run," and you're barefoot

554
00:18:49,635 --> 00:18:50,716
and there's glass in front of
you, you're just like, "Well,

555
00:18:50,716 --> 00:18:51,576
I guess I have to do this.

556
00:18:51,576 --> 00:18:53,815
I'm gonna run." I- there's
something about sort of

557
00:18:53,815 --> 00:18:56,445
knowing the difficulty,
uh, that can actually make

558
00:18:56,445 --> 00:18:57,856
things significantly worse.

559
00:18:57,966 --> 00:18:58,286
I get that.

560
00:18:58,286 --> 00:18:59,985
And of course, knowing the
difficulty, we alway- we've

561
00:18:59,985 --> 00:19:02,595
talked about this before on the
podcast, like we can inflate

562
00:19:02,595 --> 00:19:03,415
those things too, right?

563
00:19:03,415 --> 00:19:06,156
Also, the, the remembrance
of the thing makes it way

564
00:19:06,156 --> 00:19:08,135
worse than the, than the
reality of it sometimes.

565
00:19:08,426 --> 00:19:11,076
You know, something that's
really funny about everything

566
00:19:11,076 --> 00:19:14,625
we talk about here is
that none of it is new.

567
00:19:14,815 --> 00:19:17,275
Everything you're dealing
with right now has been done a

568
00:19:17,275 --> 00:19:21,226
thousand times before you, which
means the answer already exists.

569
00:19:21,226 --> 00:19:23,055
You may just not know
it, but that's okay.

570
00:19:23,485 --> 00:19:25,205
That's kind of what
we're here to do.

571
00:19:25,205 --> 00:19:27,885
We talk about this stuff on
the show, but we actually

572
00:19:27,885 --> 00:19:32,145
solve these problems all day
long at groups.startups.com.

573
00:19:32,145 --> 00:19:35,456
So if any of this sounds
familiar, stop guessing

574
00:19:35,456 --> 00:19:36,436
about what to do.

575
00:19:36,716 --> 00:19:39,956
Let us just give you the answers
to the test and be done with it.

576
00:19:39,956 --> 00:19:42,826
So we've got this wave of
anxiety, this wave of worry,

577
00:19:43,165 --> 00:19:46,505
and we're trying to figure
out what to do with it, right?

578
00:19:46,505 --> 00:19:46,546
Yeah.

579
00:19:46,546 --> 00:19:47,695
We know it's bad, right?

580
00:19:47,695 --> 00:19:49,876
There's no, at 3:00 A.M., like,
"Man, I should really kinda

581
00:19:49,876 --> 00:19:52,925
like, like triple down on this."
Like we know it's, it's bad.

582
00:19:53,635 --> 00:19:58,835
So at some point I started to
figure out like that even though

583
00:19:58,835 --> 00:20:01,543
this was worry It was energy.

584
00:20:01,543 --> 00:20:01,604
Yeah.

585
00:20:02,334 --> 00:20:04,394
And it was a manic
level of energy.

586
00:20:04,424 --> 00:20:05,213
Here's what was interesting.

587
00:20:05,624 --> 00:20:08,334
It was a manic level of
energy that I also felt

588
00:20:08,813 --> 00:20:10,653
when I was super excited
about doing something.

589
00:20:10,653 --> 00:20:11,664
Yes, e- exactly.

590
00:20:11,714 --> 00:20:12,983
Nearly one-to-one, man.

591
00:20:13,014 --> 00:20:14,674
Like, the feeling
is almost the same.

592
00:20:15,044 --> 00:20:17,244
And so, uh, you know, kind
of this, this fear and

593
00:20:17,244 --> 00:20:18,303
greed mentality, right?

594
00:20:18,473 --> 00:20:20,434
I think we all agreed that
the fear one's a lot stronger,

595
00:20:20,604 --> 00:20:22,653
but that's where I thought
it was interesting, right?

596
00:20:23,164 --> 00:20:26,594
I was like, "This is
quite a motivator," right?

597
00:20:26,594 --> 00:20:27,813
Now, not the one that I want.

598
00:20:27,873 --> 00:20:29,284
I wish I could have a
cool- Right ... like, like,

599
00:20:29,284 --> 00:20:30,723
like fun motivator, right?

600
00:20:30,774 --> 00:20:31,114
Yeah, yeah.

601
00:20:31,733 --> 00:20:34,674
But this was more of a
survival instinct motivator.

602
00:20:34,674 --> 00:20:34,793
Yeah.

603
00:20:35,153 --> 00:20:35,343
And

604
00:20:35,374 --> 00:20:36,383
I thought about it for a while.

605
00:20:36,383 --> 00:20:37,523
Still a very powerful feel.

606
00:20:37,813 --> 00:20:39,793
I worried about it at 3:00
AM and, and I, and I thought

607
00:20:39,793 --> 00:20:43,324
to myself, "How can I use
this energy, this negative

608
00:20:43,324 --> 00:20:46,532
fuel burn, if you will,
right?" Towards something

609
00:20:46,532 --> 00:20:47,641
that will actually help.

610
00:20:47,722 --> 00:20:49,992
Now that's where I fucked
it up the first time, right?

611
00:20:50,341 --> 00:20:52,261
I was like, "Let me jump
out of bed right now.

612
00:20:52,361 --> 00:20:54,302
Let me run down to my
computer- Yeah ... and let

613
00:20:54,302 --> 00:20:57,731
me take action." And that
generally didn't work.

614
00:20:57,891 --> 00:21:00,172
And what it didn't do, it
wasn't bad necessarily.

615
00:21:00,172 --> 00:21:01,231
It was, it was on
the right track.

616
00:21:01,262 --> 00:21:03,221
I was trying to use that
energy to, to respond,

617
00:21:03,871 --> 00:21:06,162
but I was just worrying
in a different way, right?

618
00:21:06,162 --> 00:21:08,862
Like, like I was just... I
remember the big thing was I

619
00:21:08,862 --> 00:21:11,772
would jump out of bed and be
like, "Our AdWords budgets

620
00:21:11,811 --> 00:21:14,871
aren't performing, so the only
way that I can fix them is

621
00:21:14,871 --> 00:21:17,041
to jump out of bed at 3:00 in
the morning and run downstairs

622
00:21:17,041 --> 00:21:17,901
and fix them right now."

623
00:21:18,361 --> 00:21:18,431
Yeah.

624
00:21:18,431 --> 00:21:19,631
And there's some truth to that.

625
00:21:19,631 --> 00:21:22,341
There's probably something I
did, and I tweaked a budget

626
00:21:22,341 --> 00:21:24,602
and changed a landing page or
something that might've helped.

627
00:21:24,971 --> 00:21:28,181
But what was interesting was
I also did this other thing

628
00:21:28,521 --> 00:21:31,161
where I said to myself, "What
is something that I could do

629
00:21:31,462 --> 00:21:35,431
that is productive- Mm ... that
isn't this problem," right?

630
00:21:35,712 --> 00:21:35,911
Yeah.

631
00:21:36,291 --> 00:21:37,122
I'll give you some examples.

632
00:21:37,411 --> 00:21:40,561
Some people say that when they
clean, like reduces worry.

633
00:21:40,872 --> 00:21:41,151
Oh, yeah.

634
00:21:41,451 --> 00:21:42,572
Cleaning, organizing.

635
00:21:42,681 --> 00:21:42,982
Yeah.

636
00:21:43,012 --> 00:21:45,282
100%. Just something to get
rid of that manic energy.

637
00:21:45,521 --> 00:21:45,631
Yeah.

638
00:21:45,631 --> 00:21:45,861
Yep.

639
00:21:46,181 --> 00:21:48,811
And, and some of the, the...
What I found, I kind of pulled

640
00:21:48,811 --> 00:21:52,242
that thread a bit, and what
I found, why so many people

641
00:21:52,242 --> 00:21:56,161
gravitate toward cleaning and
organizing is it helps you

642
00:21:56,271 --> 00:21:57,542
accomplish something positive.

643
00:21:58,322 --> 00:21:58,402
Yep.

644
00:21:58,402 --> 00:21:58,532
Right?

645
00:21:58,572 --> 00:22:00,032
Like, so you can look at a
room that's- It's finite.

646
00:22:00,581 --> 00:22:00,962
Correct.

647
00:22:01,301 --> 00:22:04,102
You can look at a room that's
unclean and make it clean.

648
00:22:04,271 --> 00:22:04,331
Yeah.

649
00:22:04,521 --> 00:22:06,992
Right now with your problem,
whether it's a work problem or

650
00:22:06,992 --> 00:22:08,972
otherwise, you can't finish it.

651
00:22:09,102 --> 00:22:10,362
You can't make it clean.

652
00:22:10,402 --> 00:22:13,112
There's no short-term
mission accomplished thing

653
00:22:13,112 --> 00:22:13,672
that's gonna happen, right?

654
00:22:13,672 --> 00:22:13,841
Correct.

655
00:22:13,841 --> 00:22:17,782
You can't get to any point of
like concrete resolution, so

656
00:22:18,331 --> 00:22:19,731
it just stays self-destructive.

657
00:22:20,091 --> 00:22:22,631
And all of a sudden,
that cortisol that you're

658
00:22:22,631 --> 00:22:25,292
dealing with switches to
dopamine, where it- Oh,

659
00:22:25,292 --> 00:22:25,502
yeah

660
00:22:25,612 --> 00:22:27,271
... 
it's, it's a positive
hit to say, "Hey, I

661
00:22:27,271 --> 00:22:28,021
did something right."

662
00:22:28,801 --> 00:22:29,002
Yep.

663
00:22:29,032 --> 00:22:31,411
And so one of the things,
this is just for me, I'm not

664
00:22:31,411 --> 00:22:32,831
sure it applies to anybody
else, and you and I've

665
00:22:32,831 --> 00:22:33,742
talked a lot about this.

666
00:22:34,212 --> 00:22:37,061
It's why I got into carpentry
and woodworking- Yeah ... is

667
00:22:37,061 --> 00:22:38,661
because I could finish it.

668
00:22:39,161 --> 00:22:42,061
I could be like super stressed
out about something, and I'll

669
00:22:42,061 --> 00:22:44,551
be like, "Okay, look, dude, I'm
just gonna focus on cutting this

670
00:22:44,551 --> 00:22:47,172
board." Like, like all I have to
do is cut this board properly.

671
00:22:47,172 --> 00:22:47,341
That's it.

672
00:22:47,341 --> 00:22:47,892
It's all I need to do.

673
00:22:47,892 --> 00:22:49,742
And I would do it, and I
would cut it properly, and

674
00:22:49,742 --> 00:22:51,081
I'm like, "Fuck yeah," right?

675
00:22:51,831 --> 00:22:54,042
Like just something to feel
good- Mission accomplished.

676
00:22:54,092 --> 00:22:54,182
Done.

677
00:22:54,182 --> 00:22:54,391
Right?

678
00:22:54,391 --> 00:22:55,661
Just something to feel good.

679
00:22:55,661 --> 00:22:55,771
Done.

680
00:22:55,801 --> 00:22:55,911
Yeah.

681
00:22:55,911 --> 00:22:57,141
And it's not gonna
change my life.

682
00:22:57,842 --> 00:22:57,941
Yeah.

683
00:22:57,941 --> 00:23:00,992
But I think that there's a,
uh, like a mental pattern

684
00:23:01,547 --> 00:23:04,087
Where I start to realize
that my energy's going

685
00:23:04,087 --> 00:23:05,297
into worrying, right?

686
00:23:05,327 --> 00:23:07,037
It's not going into
productivity, it's

687
00:23:07,037 --> 00:23:07,748
going into worrying.

688
00:23:08,108 --> 00:23:11,167
So no matter how much more I
invest in that bucket, it's

689
00:23:11,167 --> 00:23:12,578
going to be totally wasted.

690
00:23:12,938 --> 00:23:13,898
Yeah, it's not gonna change.

691
00:23:13,957 --> 00:23:16,087
I think it's gonna come out...
It, it's funny, like I, I, I

692
00:23:16,087 --> 00:23:19,018
think about this in terms of
kids, Will, and I'm, I'm sure

693
00:23:19,018 --> 00:23:21,388
that you, you can probably draw
some parallels here with Will.

694
00:23:21,638 --> 00:23:24,038
I'm thinking of Jack in
particular, um, which is

695
00:23:24,038 --> 00:23:27,817
like when they have that
crazy manic energy, right?

696
00:23:27,878 --> 00:23:29,538
You can't get them to calm down.

697
00:23:29,567 --> 00:23:31,308
You gotta give them
something to do, right?

698
00:23:31,308 --> 00:23:33,208
And it's the same
thing with, with us.

699
00:23:33,208 --> 00:23:34,398
We don't have to
kill the energy.

700
00:23:34,788 --> 00:23:36,808
We have to give it a
meaningful task, right?

701
00:23:36,808 --> 00:23:39,018
Something that will actually
do something with it.

702
00:23:39,018 --> 00:23:41,547
So I-- going back to the thing
I said before around like

703
00:23:41,547 --> 00:23:44,348
specifically the, the middle
of the night wake-ups, right?

704
00:23:44,348 --> 00:23:47,788
Like for me, I don't wanna give
it another task at that point.

705
00:23:47,788 --> 00:23:49,087
I do wanna try to redirect.

706
00:23:49,087 --> 00:23:50,538
I wanna, I wanna
save that energy.

707
00:23:50,538 --> 00:23:51,788
I wanna channel it
the next morning.

708
00:23:52,168 --> 00:23:54,038
Kind of bouncing back to some
of our earlier discussions

709
00:23:54,038 --> 00:23:57,348
today, Will, around like...
And here's how I restart Claude

710
00:23:57,348 --> 00:23:58,637
in, in a new chat, right?

711
00:23:58,808 --> 00:24:01,497
So basically, I, I do the
human version of giving myself

712
00:24:01,497 --> 00:24:04,078
a markdown file so that I
can wake up in the morning

713
00:24:04,078 --> 00:24:05,448
and pick up where I left off.

714
00:24:05,448 --> 00:24:07,337
And that's why I'm trying to
use the breathwork and things

715
00:24:07,337 --> 00:24:11,407
like that to just like put
that situation on pause, right?

716
00:24:11,407 --> 00:24:14,528
Maintain that energy, save
it for tomorrow morning,

717
00:24:14,928 --> 00:24:17,547
knowing that the minute I
pick that up again, that

718
00:24:17,547 --> 00:24:19,768
same level of manic energy
is gonna come back, right?

719
00:24:19,768 --> 00:24:21,598
Because the problem won't
have changed overnight.

720
00:24:21,797 --> 00:24:23,948
Uh, the only difference is
I'll be working at a time

721
00:24:23,948 --> 00:24:26,748
where I'm fully energized,
actually energized, and I

722
00:24:26,748 --> 00:24:29,437
won't risk waking up my entire
household stumbling around in

723
00:24:29,437 --> 00:24:30,458
the dark saying, "Computer."

724
00:24:30,888 --> 00:24:33,187
So just as a note, uh,
when I saw you last

725
00:24:33,187 --> 00:24:35,448
time, uh, in person, you
mentioned the box breathing.

726
00:24:35,448 --> 00:24:36,998
You said, hey, what you've
been doing at night is

727
00:24:36,998 --> 00:24:38,037
the box breathing, right?

728
00:24:38,037 --> 00:24:38,157
Yes.

729
00:24:38,157 --> 00:24:39,348
And so I agree with you.

730
00:24:39,348 --> 00:24:42,287
I have found that
the box breathing has

731
00:24:42,287 --> 00:24:43,168
put me back to sleep.

732
00:24:43,448 --> 00:24:44,157
Like I- Yes.

733
00:24:44,257 --> 00:24:45,278
There's no question, right?

734
00:24:45,587 --> 00:24:50,227
I also find that because I
have such insane ADD, what I

735
00:24:50,227 --> 00:24:52,897
try to do is I try to count my
full cycles of box breathing.

736
00:24:53,217 --> 00:24:53,418
Yep.

737
00:24:53,598 --> 00:24:56,178
And I get to one, sometimes two.

738
00:24:56,357 --> 00:24:58,558
I don't think I've ever made
it to three before my mind

739
00:24:58,698 --> 00:24:59,827
erases to somewhere else.

740
00:24:59,827 --> 00:25:00,708
Like it's- Somewhere else.

741
00:25:00,708 --> 00:25:01,047
Yeah.

742
00:25:01,047 --> 00:25:04,058
Yeah, like I cannot maintain
that level of concentration,

743
00:25:04,058 --> 00:25:05,748
which is why meditation
was useless for me.

744
00:25:05,787 --> 00:25:08,507
Try to switch to an asymmetric
one so that it's not like

745
00:25:08,507 --> 00:25:09,728
four, four, four, four.

746
00:25:09,728 --> 00:25:11,728
If you do something asymmetric,
then it gives you a little

747
00:25:11,728 --> 00:25:12,697
bit of change in between.

748
00:25:12,697 --> 00:25:12,887
Yeah, I agree.

749
00:25:12,887 --> 00:25:14,327
It makes it a little
easier to remember like- I

750
00:25:14,327 --> 00:25:14,547
agree

751
00:25:14,848 --> 00:25:16,077
... 
where am, am I breathing in?

752
00:25:16,077 --> 00:25:16,738
Am I breathing out?

753
00:25:16,978 --> 00:25:17,687
Am I breathing at all?

754
00:25:17,687 --> 00:25:18,958
Am I about to kill
myself, right?

755
00:25:20,268 --> 00:25:22,887
But the other thing that I
found a useful technique is

756
00:25:22,887 --> 00:25:24,297
that I focus on gratitude.

757
00:25:24,657 --> 00:25:26,917
Uh, this solves a few
things for me, right?

758
00:25:27,268 --> 00:25:29,687
And what I do is I go through
what are the things I'm most

759
00:25:29,687 --> 00:25:31,518
grateful that today, right?

760
00:25:31,568 --> 00:25:33,747
Now this is, this is a good
exercise no matter what, but

761
00:25:33,747 --> 00:25:35,937
let me explain to you why I use
it at, at 3:00 in the morning.

762
00:25:36,348 --> 00:25:39,297
It's a reminder that I
do accomplish things.

763
00:25:39,657 --> 00:25:43,588
It's a reminder that like my
life is okay, even though this

764
00:25:43,588 --> 00:25:46,398
problem- Yeah ... whatever that
might be, is present, right?

765
00:25:46,728 --> 00:25:48,838
And it's just a good way
to kinda center yourself.

766
00:25:48,838 --> 00:25:50,928
I mean, gratitude is of
course, always a good thing.

767
00:25:51,563 --> 00:25:53,674
We do a thing, uh, in my
family at the dinner table.

768
00:25:53,903 --> 00:25:54,954
We do a round of gratitude.

769
00:25:55,363 --> 00:25:57,003
Uh, and it's phenomenal, right?

770
00:25:57,003 --> 00:25:59,503
Like- Yeah ... to hear what
comes out of your kids' mouths

771
00:25:59,954 --> 00:26:01,834
and what they're grateful
for, and my kids are just

772
00:26:02,034 --> 00:26:04,403
incredibly grateful, but also
just really kind kids, I know

773
00:26:04,403 --> 00:26:06,284
yours are too, is unbelievable.

774
00:26:06,374 --> 00:26:10,253
And I bring that up to say
I try to remind myself that,

775
00:26:10,253 --> 00:26:12,613
like, my gratitude- Agrees, yeah
... is also their gratitude.

776
00:26:12,613 --> 00:26:13,324
Like, the things- Yeah,
yeah, yeah ... they're

777
00:26:13,324 --> 00:26:16,054
grateful of, I help enable,
and I, I try to make sure

778
00:26:16,054 --> 00:26:16,884
I don't lose sight of that.

779
00:26:17,294 --> 00:26:19,544
But part of my, like, you
know, dealing with worry

780
00:26:20,054 --> 00:26:23,894
is a reinforcement that I
also solve problems, right?

781
00:26:23,943 --> 00:26:24,164
Yes.

782
00:26:24,164 --> 00:26:25,193
Like, yes, this is a problem,

783
00:26:25,614 --> 00:26:26,254
but- And you're good at
it ... I've solved like

784
00:26:26,254 --> 00:26:26,714
20 problems today, right?

785
00:26:26,714 --> 00:26:28,903
Right, I think that's, I think,
so that's where I was getting

786
00:26:28,903 --> 00:26:30,333
ready to go next actually-
Yeah ... was that one of the

787
00:26:30,333 --> 00:26:33,464
things I've started trying to
do is, is say like, "Why am

788
00:26:33,464 --> 00:26:38,004
I allowing, like, the panic
intern in me, as opposed to the

789
00:26:38,004 --> 00:26:39,993
experienced founder in me- Yeah

790
00:26:39,993 --> 00:26:41,364
drive this conversation," right?

791
00:26:41,364 --> 00:26:41,714
Like- Great way to put it.

792
00:26:41,714 --> 00:26:43,534
Great way to put it, yep ... I
can choose the narrative

793
00:26:43,534 --> 00:26:45,874
here, and so I, I've tried
to become better about that

794
00:26:45,874 --> 00:26:46,964
too, just the self-talk, man.

795
00:26:46,964 --> 00:26:47,894
I'm a huge believer in it.

796
00:26:47,894 --> 00:26:51,524
Like, how we describe things
in our own mind have a lot

797
00:26:51,524 --> 00:26:53,223
to do with what happens next.

798
00:26:53,504 --> 00:26:53,633
Yep.

799
00:26:53,633 --> 00:26:55,443
And so I'll tell myself,
like, "Yeah, wow, this is a

800
00:26:55,443 --> 00:26:57,853
big problem. That is, that's,
that's awful." I literally

801
00:26:57,853 --> 00:26:59,553
talk to myself like I'm
talking to one of my kids.

802
00:26:59,553 --> 00:27:01,123
Like, "Oh, that must be really
frustrating that you're dealing

803
00:27:01,123 --> 00:27:03,813
with that right now," like,
and then it's like- ... "Well,

804
00:27:04,254 --> 00:27:06,093
but you've solved problems
like this before, haven't you?

805
00:27:06,173 --> 00:27:08,093
Oh yeah, and you're pretty
good at that, and you feel good

806
00:27:08,093 --> 00:27:08,974
when you get through it, right?

807
00:27:09,214 --> 00:27:09,824
Okay, cool.

808
00:27:09,853 --> 00:27:11,434
You think maybe we could
put this off until tomorrow?

809
00:27:11,434 --> 00:27:11,864
You do?

810
00:27:11,864 --> 00:27:12,474
Okay, awesome.

811
00:27:12,474 --> 00:27:13,324
Let's go back to sleep.

812
00:27:13,324 --> 00:27:14,483
Box breathing time." Yeah.

813
00:27:14,483 --> 00:27:14,733
Right?

814
00:27:14,764 --> 00:27:16,883
And it's funny, the shit works.

815
00:27:16,913 --> 00:27:17,824
It really does.

816
00:27:17,824 --> 00:27:20,093
But, but you have to have the
recognition of it first, and I

817
00:27:20,093 --> 00:27:22,894
think e- especially for early,
early stage founders, first time

818
00:27:22,894 --> 00:27:27,273
founders, you don't yet have
enough reps with it to where

819
00:27:27,273 --> 00:27:29,993
that, that conversation's even
gonna make any sense to you.

820
00:27:29,993 --> 00:27:31,504
You're just gonna wake up
worried and be like- Agreed

821
00:27:31,824 --> 00:27:33,934
... "This is what I do. I'm
just gonna worry. I'm gonna

822
00:27:33,934 --> 00:27:34,934
worry myself into a-" Yeah.

823
00:27:35,254 --> 00:27:37,894
The problem is worrying
gets in the way of solving

824
00:27:37,894 --> 00:27:38,993
the problem, right?

825
00:27:39,114 --> 00:27:39,483
Correct.

826
00:27:39,483 --> 00:27:41,214
And again, i- w- we talked
about this a moment ago,

827
00:27:41,214 --> 00:27:44,074
but like there's a bucket of
worrying and there's a bucket

828
00:27:44,074 --> 00:27:47,743
of problem solving, and I think
worrying often masks itself

829
00:27:47,803 --> 00:27:49,154
as problem solving, right?

830
00:27:49,553 --> 00:27:52,934
It reminds me of like when a,
um, a boat's about to sink.

831
00:27:53,707 --> 00:27:55,337
And you have people running
around, you know, like,

832
00:27:55,428 --> 00:27:57,328
"Oh my God, it's gonna
sink, it's gonna sink." Um,

833
00:27:57,328 --> 00:27:58,817
they're gonna die, right?

834
00:27:59,277 --> 00:28:01,467
The people who are gonna survive
are like, "What can I use here

835
00:28:01,467 --> 00:28:03,037
to build a raft out of?" Right?

836
00:28:03,077 --> 00:28:03,228
Yeah.

837
00:28:03,228 --> 00:28:04,707
Like, that's problem-solving.

838
00:28:04,707 --> 00:28:05,797
The other is just worrying.

839
00:28:05,797 --> 00:28:05,867
Yep.

840
00:28:05,978 --> 00:28:06,178
Right?

841
00:28:06,207 --> 00:28:07,537
Only one of you are
floating out of there.

842
00:28:07,757 --> 00:28:07,867
Yep.

843
00:28:07,898 --> 00:28:08,198
Yes.

844
00:28:08,198 --> 00:28:10,667
And, and I, I try to think
of that in terms of where am

845
00:28:10,667 --> 00:28:11,608
I putting my time right now?

846
00:28:11,608 --> 00:28:14,438
Is this worry just me running
around the, the deck of

847
00:28:14,438 --> 00:28:16,368
the ship- Yeah ... "Oh my
God, we're gonna die," or

848
00:28:16,368 --> 00:28:18,827
is this me saying, "Hey,
I've got a, a really good

849
00:28:18,827 --> 00:28:19,798
plan I'm about to execute"?

850
00:28:19,887 --> 00:28:23,348
Any danger there in activating
yourself to say that, like,

851
00:28:23,348 --> 00:28:25,657
you just go into that always-on
mode where it's like, "Okay,

852
00:28:25,657 --> 00:28:27,997
here's a problem now. I
can't just worry about this.

853
00:28:28,317 --> 00:28:31,117
That would be useless, but
I also go, have to go do

854
00:28:31,117 --> 00:28:33,137
something about it even though
it's 3:00 in the morning."

855
00:28:33,178 --> 00:28:34,047
How do you balance that?

856
00:28:34,328 --> 00:28:36,268
The problem with that is,
for what it's worth, I do

857
00:28:36,268 --> 00:28:37,538
not get out of bed, right?

858
00:28:37,538 --> 00:28:39,518
So that it, it isn't one of the
things where I'm like, "Fuck

859
00:28:39,518 --> 00:28:42,718
this, I have to, like, go,
go do this now." I'm at least

860
00:28:42,977 --> 00:28:46,087
mature enough in this thinking
that I know that the only

861
00:28:46,087 --> 00:28:49,398
solution is I need more rest
in order to solve this problem.

862
00:28:49,858 --> 00:28:52,997
Now that said- Yes ... that
argument does not sound very

863
00:28:52,997 --> 00:28:54,497
strong at 3:00 AM, right?

864
00:28:54,837 --> 00:28:54,977
No,

865
00:28:54,977 --> 00:28:55,277
it doesn't.

866
00:28:55,277 --> 00:28:55,387
It,

867
00:28:55,617 --> 00:28:55,678
it doesn't.

868
00:28:55,678 --> 00:28:59,178
I feel like if I could just take
action with my thoughts right

869
00:28:59,178 --> 00:29:02,908
now, I'm basically trying to
compartmentalize my problems.

870
00:29:02,908 --> 00:29:04,838
In other words, I'm not trying
to like, like, push them

871
00:29:04,838 --> 00:29:06,947
away, like, hey, I shouldn't
have problems anymore.

872
00:29:07,347 --> 00:29:07,527
Yeah, yeah.

873
00:29:07,527 --> 00:29:10,288
I'm saying, here's stuff I
can solve right now, like,

874
00:29:10,288 --> 00:29:12,658
here's stuff tomorrow morning
I can solve, and here's stuff

875
00:29:12,658 --> 00:29:14,387
I can't solve anytime soon.

876
00:29:14,788 --> 00:29:17,228
And I think this is interesting
because, you know, you've

877
00:29:17,228 --> 00:29:19,088
been on, on this journey
with me in, in building a

878
00:29:19,088 --> 00:29:21,317
company, but also in, as
I've been building a house.

879
00:29:21,828 --> 00:29:23,508
And I'll use the house
metaphor just 'cause it's

880
00:29:23,508 --> 00:29:24,417
very clear for people.

881
00:29:24,718 --> 00:29:24,777
Right.

882
00:29:24,777 --> 00:29:28,548
Like, I can fix one thing in
this house today, you know,

883
00:29:28,548 --> 00:29:30,767
as I'm building the house, but
I can't fix the whole house.

884
00:29:31,097 --> 00:29:34,027
No matter how badly- Yeah ... I
want to, tomorrow I can

885
00:29:34,027 --> 00:29:35,597
only make one thing right.

886
00:29:35,627 --> 00:29:38,938
Maybe two if things go crazy,
but generally only one.

887
00:29:39,595 --> 00:29:41,225
So let me focus on that.

888
00:29:41,605 --> 00:29:44,316
And whenever I do that,
whenever I focus on the one

889
00:29:44,316 --> 00:29:46,165
thing, it changes everything.

890
00:29:46,355 --> 00:29:49,175
'Cause number one, I t-tend
to get it done, and it, it

891
00:29:49,206 --> 00:29:50,496
releases that dopamine, right?

892
00:29:50,496 --> 00:29:51,685
Like you feel less helpless.

893
00:29:51,725 --> 00:29:51,786
Yeah.

894
00:29:51,986 --> 00:29:53,916
So it's like the, again,
the ship is going down,

895
00:29:54,265 --> 00:29:56,115
and you're like, "I gotta
build a boat," right?

896
00:29:56,336 --> 00:29:58,375
And it's like, okay,
I found an oar.

897
00:29:59,176 --> 00:30:00,965
Not gonna be super helpful
without the rest of the

898
00:30:00,965 --> 00:30:02,385
boat, but I am gonna
need the oar, right?

899
00:30:02,385 --> 00:30:03,166
So I got that thing done.

900
00:30:03,166 --> 00:30:03,356
Yeah.

901
00:30:03,625 --> 00:30:05,496
Now I'm gonna find the next
thing and the next thing.

902
00:30:05,955 --> 00:30:09,086
And I think when you get
into this highly rhythmic,

903
00:30:09,625 --> 00:30:13,415
very specific problem-solving
chain of events, incidentally

904
00:30:13,415 --> 00:30:14,406
problems get solved.

905
00:30:14,705 --> 00:30:17,415
But more importantly, it puts
your focus on something you can

906
00:30:17,415 --> 00:30:19,025
actually do something with- Do.

907
00:30:19,025 --> 00:30:20,635
Yeah ... you know, versus
just messing around.

908
00:30:21,016 --> 00:30:23,676
Yeah, I mean, look, I think
worry is part of the founder

909
00:30:23,676 --> 00:30:24,856
job description, right?

910
00:30:24,856 --> 00:30:28,665
I mean- ... kinda the whole
point is that we detect risk,

911
00:30:28,856 --> 00:30:31,075
and so, you know, we don't
necessarily wanna disable any

912
00:30:31,075 --> 00:30:33,665
of that, but we do have to
learn which alarms are worth

913
00:30:33,665 --> 00:30:35,225
paying attention to, right?

914
00:30:35,225 --> 00:30:35,385
Yeah.

915
00:30:35,385 --> 00:30:37,235
And I think trying to,
trying to turn things from

916
00:30:37,235 --> 00:30:40,876
just endless worry to useful
concern is sort of the goal.

917
00:30:41,396 --> 00:30:43,545
But you have to have, and
I think you've, you've done

918
00:30:43,545 --> 00:30:45,576
a good job building these
systems, uh, you know, these

919
00:30:45,576 --> 00:30:47,606
mental models, 'cause you
gotta have... Without an action

920
00:30:47,606 --> 00:30:50,595
protocol, that worry is just
always gonna be there, right?

921
00:30:50,595 --> 00:30:53,006
And it just, it ends up
being this, this constant

922
00:30:53,006 --> 00:30:54,926
infernal internal noise.

923
00:30:55,415 --> 00:30:58,335
But yeah, I think over
time it becomes a lot more

924
00:30:58,335 --> 00:30:59,436
obvious and a lot easier.

925
00:30:59,735 --> 00:31:02,985
But telling a founder not
to worry at the early stages

926
00:31:02,985 --> 00:31:05,616
is kinda like telling a
smoke detector in a fire

927
00:31:05,616 --> 00:31:07,415
to, to just relax, right?

928
00:31:07,455 --> 00:31:10,616
It's like my, my whole job
is to just scream about this.

929
00:31:10,616 --> 00:31:11,326
This is all I can do.

930
00:31:11,326 --> 00:31:12,316
That's what I have to do.

931
00:31:12,316 --> 00:31:13,116
That's what I'm here for.

932
00:31:13,606 --> 00:31:15,816
But I think part of that,
though, is the size of the

933
00:31:15,816 --> 00:31:18,455
problem is proportionate to how
likely we are to solve it, okay?

934
00:31:18,485 --> 00:31:18,546
Yeah.

935
00:31:18,695 --> 00:31:21,216
So if we say that the problem is
that this company, you know, is

936
00:31:21,216 --> 00:31:22,095
never gonna raise money again.

937
00:31:22,146 --> 00:31:23,055
Okay, I understand.

938
00:31:23,106 --> 00:31:23,216
Yeah.

939
00:31:23,216 --> 00:31:25,025
Like that's, that's a
very common problem that

940
00:31:25,025 --> 00:31:25,665
everybody deals with.

941
00:31:25,905 --> 00:31:26,216
Fair enough.

942
00:31:26,536 --> 00:31:27,796
But you can't
solve that problem.

943
00:31:28,146 --> 00:31:30,835
Not today, not with,
with one fell swoop.

944
00:31:31,385 --> 00:31:32,915
But here's the part
that you can solve.

945
00:31:33,155 --> 00:31:35,996
Tomorrow morning you can wake
up and you can research five

946
00:31:35,996 --> 00:31:37,566
potential investors to contact.

947
00:31:37,856 --> 00:31:41,466
Next, you can write an email or,
or find a warm intro or whatever

948
00:31:41,466 --> 00:31:43,246
to contact those five investors.

949
00:31:43,606 --> 00:31:46,585
Collectively, you cannot
solve fundraising, but you can

950
00:31:46,585 --> 00:31:48,476
solve five investors, right?

951
00:31:48,795 --> 00:31:49,916
It's that whole, you
know, how do you move a

952
00:31:49,916 --> 00:31:51,806
mountain one pebble at
a time, uh, type thing.

953
00:31:52,366 --> 00:31:53,886
It's the same way I
built a house, right?

954
00:31:53,886 --> 00:31:55,655
Built a giant house-
Yeah ... by myself, right?

955
00:31:55,825 --> 00:31:56,935
Not literally, but pretty much.

956
00:31:57,366 --> 00:31:59,825
And not because I just looked
at the whole thing and said,

957
00:31:59,825 --> 00:32:01,226
"Oh, I'm just gonna build
this whole thing myself."

958
00:32:01,286 --> 00:32:03,105
It's like one thing at a time.

959
00:32:03,336 --> 00:32:03,426
Yeah.

960
00:32:03,426 --> 00:32:04,745
Like one little piece at a time.

961
00:32:04,745 --> 00:32:04,806
But

962
00:32:04,855 --> 00:32:05,105
it adds up.

963
00:32:05,105 --> 00:32:05,485
It's a, it's

964
00:32:05,485 --> 00:32:07,256
a collection of lots
of tiny problems.

965
00:32:07,446 --> 00:32:07,586
Right.

966
00:32:07,586 --> 00:32:07,806
Yep.

967
00:32:08,185 --> 00:32:10,985
So when I'm going through that,
that 3:00 a.m. exercise where

968
00:32:10,985 --> 00:32:12,976
I'm worrying, you know, that
being just kind of a metaphor

969
00:32:12,976 --> 00:32:16,688
for all worrying, my first
thought is What is the smallest

970
00:32:16,688 --> 00:32:19,967
morsel of this problem that I
can take action on right now?

971
00:32:20,237 --> 00:32:22,458
Now, part of that is
'cause I'm a get shit

972
00:32:22,458 --> 00:32:23,717
done kinda guy, right?

973
00:32:23,757 --> 00:32:24,028
Yeah, yeah.

974
00:32:24,028 --> 00:32:26,787
Actually, we just went through
this exercise 12 hours ago

975
00:32:27,077 --> 00:32:29,368
when we were talking about,
like, we were doing our landing

976
00:32:29,368 --> 00:32:30,587
page funnel, and we were
saying, "Oh my God, there's

977
00:32:30,787 --> 00:32:33,948
all these points in the funnel
that we wanna change." And we

978
00:32:33,948 --> 00:32:36,507
were like, "Yeah, but until
we fix the first one, the

979
00:32:36,507 --> 00:32:37,177
rest of them don't matter."

980
00:32:37,218 --> 00:32:37,278
Yeah.

981
00:32:37,567 --> 00:32:38,827
The rest of them don't matter.

982
00:32:38,917 --> 00:32:39,087
Right.

983
00:32:39,087 --> 00:32:39,147
Yeah.

984
00:32:39,147 --> 00:32:39,208
If

985
00:32:39,208 --> 00:32:40,438
nobody makes it past the first
page, who cares about the

986
00:32:40,438 --> 00:32:40,587
second?

987
00:32:40,587 --> 00:32:42,157
We don't, we don't need to worry
about hanging the windows on

988
00:32:42,157 --> 00:32:44,438
the second floor if we haven't
built the first floor yet.

989
00:32:44,548 --> 00:32:45,417
Exactly, right?

990
00:32:45,708 --> 00:32:49,017
Part of that is a great
decades-long conditioned

991
00:32:49,017 --> 00:32:50,267
response by me, right?

992
00:32:50,267 --> 00:32:50,458
Yes.

993
00:32:50,458 --> 00:32:53,037
Like, I've learned that I
can't solve the big problem,

994
00:32:53,307 --> 00:32:56,138
so I have to chip away at it
with small problems, which

995
00:32:56,138 --> 00:32:58,237
incidentally is kinda how you
tend to solve big problems.

996
00:32:58,537 --> 00:33:00,327
Not because you worried
about them so much, but

997
00:33:00,327 --> 00:33:01,638
because you freaking did
something about them.

998
00:33:01,998 --> 00:33:02,217
Yeah.

999
00:33:02,467 --> 00:33:03,357
Actually took action.

1000
00:33:03,607 --> 00:33:03,848
Yeah.

1001
00:33:04,007 --> 00:33:05,958
Look, we're not gonna
start, stop thinking

1002
00:33:05,958 --> 00:33:06,938
about our startups, right?

1003
00:33:06,938 --> 00:33:07,127
Right.

1004
00:33:07,127 --> 00:33:08,388
That's just not how we're wired.

1005
00:33:08,388 --> 00:33:08,478
Right.

1006
00:33:08,478 --> 00:33:11,107
And frankly, some of that
obsession is why we're

1007
00:33:11,107 --> 00:33:12,978
able to build anything
in the first place.

1008
00:33:13,118 --> 00:33:13,338
Right.

1009
00:33:13,338 --> 00:33:13,428
Right?

1010
00:33:13,428 --> 00:33:15,487
But we do have to stop
pretending that worrying

1011
00:33:15,487 --> 00:33:16,787
is the same as working.

1012
00:33:17,017 --> 00:33:19,417
To me, the worry is
not a silent brain.

1013
00:33:19,417 --> 00:33:19,557
Right.

1014
00:33:19,598 --> 00:33:21,297
It's, it's a trained
brain, right?

1015
00:33:21,297 --> 00:33:21,508
Right.

1016
00:33:21,508 --> 00:33:25,178
It's one that can spot the
fear, try to sort that signal

1017
00:33:25,178 --> 00:33:28,087
out from the noise, and turn
all that nervous founder

1018
00:33:28,087 --> 00:33:30,578
energy into something really
useful, which I think is the

1019
00:33:30,608 --> 00:33:32,047
actual goal behind all this.

1020
00:33:32,267 --> 00:33:35,267
And kind of both, both of
us are here to say it works.

1021
00:33:35,398 --> 00:33:36,367
Like, it's very doable.

1022
00:33:36,367 --> 00:33:36,648
It does.

1023
00:33:36,767 --> 00:33:37,398
Not easy.

1024
00:33:37,468 --> 00:33:39,047
Like anything, like
we're doing it easy.

1025
00:33:39,127 --> 00:33:39,288
Yeah.

1026
00:33:39,487 --> 00:33:39,917
Simple,

1027
00:33:39,977 --> 00:33:40,398
not easy.

1028
00:33:40,547 --> 00:33:42,848
But exact- That's a
great way to put it.

1029
00:33:43,047 --> 00:33:45,428
But I think the way we look at
this is like, look man, a lot of

1030
00:33:45,428 --> 00:33:47,377
people like will say, especially
not founders, they'll be like,

1031
00:33:47,697 --> 00:33:49,708
"Oh, you shouldn't worry. You
should worry about, you know,"

1032
00:33:49,708 --> 00:33:52,398
like, uh, you know, 'cause we're
like, dude, not gonna happen.

1033
00:33:52,557 --> 00:33:55,047
I think this is also maybe
like a point of my maturity

1034
00:33:55,127 --> 00:33:57,879
is that- For the first time
in my life, I'm realizing that

1035
00:33:57,879 --> 00:33:58,709
things aren't gonna happen.

1036
00:33:59,249 --> 00:34:01,700
Like 10, 20 years ago, I might
have thought, "Oh, I just need

1037
00:34:01,700 --> 00:34:03,719
to be more zen and meditate
more, and, you know, I'll

1038
00:34:03,719 --> 00:34:04,929
make these problems go away."

1039
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:05,330
Yeah.

1040
00:34:05,479 --> 00:34:06,559
And now I'm like, you know what?

1041
00:34:06,559 --> 00:34:07,809
What a crock of shit.

1042
00:34:08,699 --> 00:34:08,819
Yeah.

1043
00:34:08,819 --> 00:34:10,750
Like that was never
going to happen, right?

1044
00:34:11,029 --> 00:34:11,179
Yeah.

1045
00:34:11,300 --> 00:34:12,699
It's the, the
six-pack abs theory.

1046
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,790
Well, if I just diet more
and like hit the gym more,

1047
00:34:14,790 --> 00:34:15,769
I'll just have six-pack abs.

1048
00:34:16,179 --> 00:34:17,429
Never gonna happen, right?

1049
00:34:17,509 --> 00:34:18,480
Yep, yep.

1050
00:34:18,720 --> 00:34:20,970
Like that... I'm sure
that's true, and it's

1051
00:34:20,970 --> 00:34:21,790
never going to happen.

1052
00:34:21,790 --> 00:34:22,460
It's never gonna happen.

1053
00:34:22,490 --> 00:34:22,620
Yeah.

1054
00:34:22,620 --> 00:34:23,099
Right?

1055
00:34:23,829 --> 00:34:26,240
And I think that when people
look at our lives, you know, the

1056
00:34:26,240 --> 00:34:29,490
outside looking in for founders,
they're like, "Well, I go home

1057
00:34:29,490 --> 00:34:31,830
at night and I don't think about
like whether my business is g-

1058
00:34:31,830 --> 00:34:32,780
is gonna be around anymore."

1059
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:34,749
Yeah, 'cause it's not your
freaking job to do that.

1060
00:34:35,100 --> 00:34:36,600
That's like saying, "I
don't worry about kids

1061
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:37,220
'cause I don't have any."

1062
00:34:38,179 --> 00:34:38,490
Right.

1063
00:34:38,790 --> 00:34:38,909
Yeah.

1064
00:34:38,909 --> 00:34:39,819
Well, g- good.

1065
00:34:39,819 --> 00:34:40,290
It'd be weird

1066
00:34:40,290 --> 00:34:40,760
if you did.

1067
00:34:41,030 --> 00:34:41,130
Yeah.

1068
00:34:41,229 --> 00:34:42,260
It would be weird.

1069
00:34:42,729 --> 00:34:45,479
But like I look at it and I'm
like, man, if you had to deal

1070
00:34:45,479 --> 00:34:48,119
with what I have to deal with,
which means I have to go, go

1071
00:34:48,119 --> 00:34:50,409
on the, the dealership lot
and worry about every single

1072
00:34:50,409 --> 00:34:51,330
thing that's happening- Yep

1073
00:34:51,330 --> 00:34:53,290
it's like quite literally
my job, then look, man,

1074
00:34:53,290 --> 00:34:54,089
worrying's gonna come.

1075
00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:55,060
That's part of it, right?

1076
00:34:55,490 --> 00:34:56,369
And that's okay.

1077
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:57,569
It's hard, but it's okay.

1078
00:34:57,569 --> 00:34:58,650
It, it's what we do.

1079
00:34:59,139 --> 00:35:01,280
But I think what we can do
differently, and I think

1080
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,310
this is the turn for all of
us as founders, what we can

1081
00:35:04,310 --> 00:35:06,880
do differently is we can
say, "Hey, you know what?

1082
00:35:07,250 --> 00:35:09,930
Every time I'm gonna
worry, I wanna master that.

1083
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:11,030
I wanna get great at that.

1084
00:35:11,060 --> 00:35:14,149
I wanna be the grand wizard
of worrying, because when

1085
00:35:14,149 --> 00:35:17,250
that happens, I'm gonna look
at that as that Super Mario,

1086
00:35:17,460 --> 00:35:20,589
I just hit the, the mushroom
and just expanded, right?

1087
00:35:20,839 --> 00:35:23,369
I am the best version of
myself when I'm in that mode.

1088
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,700
If I can learn how to control
it, if I can learn how to

1089
00:35:25,850 --> 00:35:28,789
focus it, 'cause if I can,
all the stuff I'm worrying

1090
00:35:28,789 --> 00:35:31,539
about becomes a superpower
to actually get it done."

1091
00:35:32,519 --> 00:35:34,789
Overthinking your startup
because you're going it alone?

1092
00:35:34,969 --> 00:35:36,939
You don't have to, and
honestly, you shouldn't,

1093
00:35:37,070 --> 00:35:39,649
because instead, you can
learn directly from peers

1094
00:35:39,649 --> 00:35:40,769
who have been in your shoes.

1095
00:35:41,060 --> 00:35:43,339
Connect with bootstrap
founders and the advisors

1096
00:35:43,339 --> 00:35:45,769
helping them win in the
Startups.com Community.

1097
00:35:45,969 --> 00:35:50,710
Check out the Startups.com
Community at www.startups.com

1098
00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:51,659
to see if it's for you.

1099
00:35:51,869 --> 00:35:52,850
Could be just the
thing you need.

1100
00:35:53,130 --> 00:35:54,000
I hope to see you inside.