Welcome to the Love, Sex and Leadership podcast where you can discover simple tantric teachings to embody your true power, awaken your soul's wisdom and live an inspired life as a natural, intuitive and heart centered leader. Hello everyone. Welcome to Love, Sects and Leadership. I'm very excited to have a friend, Sigourney Belle, here with me today, coming in from just outside of Melbourne in Australia. I met Sigourney years ago when I was doing a lot more teaching in Australia before they decided to kick me out for several years. But yeah, very excited to bring her to the show. She's a amazing, mystical woman and author, teaches really some, some incredible bodywork. I haven't particularly taken it myself, but I've heard really great feedback from so many people that, that take it kind of weaving together the mystical side with the grounded, practical tools to make people more capable of really making profound change in people's energetic and physiological bodies. So there's so much more I can say. But welcome to the show. Jorni, thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. And also a mama of a. Was she three or four? How old is your daughter? She's going on four, just about to hit her second mars return and really going through that four year old daughter. Amazing, amazing. As a soon to be father, I'm always very appreciative of people in our field that are not only making big impact, but also bringing life into the world. I think it takes a certain quality of a, you know, of a woman, of a parent, of a couple, whatever the dynamic is, to really be on purpose, but also to say, hey, I'm a mother, I'm a father, I'm someone bringing life into this world because I really, I was just having a, a chat with a friend of mine here in Portugal about that. I can really tell the difference between the older people in our field of work who are parents and those who are not. There's a different quality of energy that's there. I'm wondering if you've noticed something similar. Yeah, definitely. Well, I can speak from my own experience of, you know, transitioning from maiden to mother and the profound impact that that's had on me. And you know, I've gone on to study matriarchal medicine and actually like during that transition period, your whole nervous system changes and it doesn't just change like temporarily, it actually changes for good. Similar to the transition, you know, during when we move from or into our crone era, actually our whole physiology changes. So it makes sense that also like our embodiment changes in the way that we kind of show up also shifts. So yeah, for women, for example, like, we basically have this process where all of these neurons and synapses are pruned and the limbic system and all of the deeper kind of parts of our instinctual nervous system become hyper vigilant and, and wired more deeply. So we lose capacity to actually be more cognitive and all of our instincts just come online in this way. That's just this superpower. I remember once I was like sitting in this cafe in the UK and my daughter at that point had just started to, to like move around more and I just was talking to someone and I just had this instinct to run to the road and as I looked out the window, she was like nearly at the road, about to be hit by a car and somehow or another I was able to get there and stop her within like, you know, split seconds. I feel like, yeah, it was just this lightning instinct. So everything just like really heightens. And you know, your emotional body, your instinctual body becomes. Yes. Stronger and all of these logical aspects of self kind of start to dissolve. They call it baby brain. But actually it's just this profound superpower that, that women have once they've been through motherhood. You know, we think about like, I feel like I was intuitive anyway before I fell pregnant and then it's like on steroids. So. Yeah, it does. It massively impacts you in so many ways. Well, make sure all of the either mothers to be or mothers becoming. Natasha, please listen to that. Your intuition is celebrated, darling. Yeah, and I mean like the shadow aspect of that. Sorry, I've just taken over. No, no, no, no, go, go. Is, you know, when that more reptilian brain does come on, it comes with things like heightened fears and like that. The shadow period of pregnancy is so intense because every possible fear for a woman comes up and it comes up through her like, instinctual body. And so, you know. Yeah, it's like your intuition and your instincts are dialed up, but so is every, every feeling. Yeah, every possible fear, like those parts of the brain are really alive. So it can be really intense as well. And I'm curious for yourself, how has that impacted your, your work, your. Your creativity, your writing, like your as a mother? I mean, what has birthed and created in the last four years with your daughter here compared to before? Yeah, I mean, one is like, you have less time, so you have to like, on a practical level, like when you have a child, you have less time. So, you know, I think before I fell Pregnant. I was. I've always been hyper creative anyway. But yeah, I was birthing through new things consistently. And as soon as Cerulea came through, well, there was actually an interesting journey because I just sold While Grace my previous business, which was training women in the field of sexuality and tantra. And I sold the business to set myself up for like, you know, having a few years of maternity leave. And I actually got hacked and I lost all of my funds in my third trimester of pregnancy right before I was about to give birth. And my. I went through a separation at the same time, so I wasn't receiving support. So I went into this space of like, holy, I've got to. I've got to create something new that's going to support me during this period. Like, what am I gonna do? And I was sitting with Cerulea and just, you know, her being. And just liaising with her and being like, what's going on? Like, why is this happening? And that's when the whole vision for Soma Mystica came through in my third trimester. And I bir that and actually that has grown to be one of my most successful businesses. And I feel like she. She was the one that brought that body of work through actually to support myself and her. And yeah, as I feel like, also because I've had less ability to create so much, I've had to be really strategic with what I've created and to create something that means I don't have to show up as much. You know, previously I was traveling the world consistently running trainings and, you know, constantly showing up. And it's like, I don't actually have capacity for that anymore. So I need to create something that's going to hold me. And so that's what this business has done. Yeah, so it's just a different form of creation. It's a lot slower. I've had to create something that's given me a lot more space. Yeah, I love that in bringing our new one in the world in September, in the last year, year and a half, I mean, we now have three properties, our place here in Portugal. And part of it was, I think, my soul saying, okay, you've been traveling like this for 15 years plus, you know, it's time to ground a bit more. So I'm excited to see what gets to come through in that way. And you're mentioning there's a few, few books that you're bringing into the world. One around cultivating genius. I'd love to hear more about this and, and really you know, when I hear that cultivating genus, I. The piece that comes up for me and I'm here, obviously you know, you're writing the book on it. But I feel like a lot of people in our world forget the fact of knowing their own inner genius, and they kind of are often projecting that onto organizations, politics, people, leaders, instead of actually owning it within themselves. So that's, that's what I hear when I hear cultivating genius. But tell me a little bit more. What, what's. What's coming through you with that? Yeah. Back to your last question. Before I had Cerulea, I wrote four books within the matter of like two years. And then she came along and it was like, I can't do any of this. But actually I've just popped out the other side and I've just started co parenting in the past eight months. Really, really well actually. And so I have time to myself again. And in that period of time, two new books have come through. So one of them is called the Mother Wild Revolution. It's basically about my journey of becoming a mother, but it's backed by a lot of neuroscience and the studies that I've kind of done in the field of neurology and interlinking that with the journey of matrescence or becoming a mother. And a big part of what I share in that book, and really a driver for what I'm sharing, is around this idea of cultivating genius and particularly in your child, like how to, you know, speaking from a mother's point of view, particularly, you know, in pregnancy and those first formative years of birth, there's so much enmeshment with our child. And it's so easy to enmesh and forget that these bigs, actually they're individuals and they have their own unique genius coming through them. And I think it's been one of my biggest wounds that I've had to kind of traverse in this lifetime is actually overcoming my own enmeshment wounds with my mother to work out who I am as an individual and actually what are my individual gifts. And, you know, to the point where I was, you know, in school, I was consistently sent to a child psychologist, you know, something wrong with me because I of my behaviors at school. And I was just totally rebellious, intelligent, like getting top grades, but totally rebellious. I remember in year 11, I like cut off all of my pubic hair and placed it on top of all of the fans in the classroom. It was a hot day and the teacher came. I was constantly getting into trouble. And that's great. I'm sure, I'm sure that should inspire some youth to do the same. Sorry. I, I created all of these incredible books, like these flip books about penises and vaginas. And that's just what I would do in school and was. Yeah, I would get kind of shipped off to the child psychologist at lunch and she'd sit there and try and figure out what was happening with me. And I just sit there and say, there's nothing wrong with me, I'm fine. Like, this institution is, is not designed for people like me. Like I'm, I'm a creative and I knew that from a very young age. And I feel very fortunate that I feel like I knew myself from a young age and was able to stand for that because a lot of people just take on all of these, you know, pathologizing labels. And so it's really, it's something that's at the core of me is this real sensitivity around children and making sure that children are nurtured into, to knowing themselves and their genius and outside of this system that constantly tries to, you know, push us into some kind of box and pathologize us and label us and you know, we're in this epidemic actually at the moment around, around this like medical pathologization. And I think one of the, you know, the real answers to this is, is genius and cultivating genius. So that's, that's what I've written about in the Motherworld revolution. I love that. Very specific things like Steiner's, you know, the different developmental ages of genius as well and you know, mapping these kinds of things, teaching about astrology and how you can like look at the blueprint of your child and you know, come to understand them, separate to yourself and support them as an individual. Because every parenting journey is, is so it's totally individual. So I'm, I'm curious with that, with your awareness of, of your impact in the school system and what you went through and you know, with your daughter now 4 and soon, you know, may or may not be entering some type of either, you know, group oriented community system or public system like you might not know in this moment. But what, what avenue do you feel like you're going to support her in, with, with education? Something more public or private or Steiner or where, where do you feel like you'll, you'll go with her? Yeah. So this is a really interesting one because I again, I've had to step out of my experience in with my childhood and going to school and to be listening to what is, who is this being and what does she want? You know? And like, the reality is she's very different to me. She's far more social. You know, as a child I was extremely sensitive and introverted. Didn't like being around people. You know, I would sit in the corner of the playground and watch children play and be like, I don't know what they're doing, like, what are they, what are they doing? I was this tiny little, little child meditating in the playgr. And Cerulea is not that she's very social, you know, I take her out to a cafe and sometimes I'm like, like having a panic attack before I'm even getting to the cafe because I know she's going to be at every person's table telling them about, you know, her life. And she's so social and needs a lot of human contact. So, yeah, as a part of her journey, she's actually in a Steiner kindergarten currently and she loves it and I don't know if she will end up going to Steiner school. She's very creative. She's definitely got like a gift in the field of artistry and storytelling. So something like Steiner or Waldorf kind of models would suit her. But I don't know yet. I'm kind of taking it year by year. At the moment she's still three going on four. So I've got, you know, a year and a bit to kind of tune into that. We have also looked at Green School in Bali. I don't know if you've seen Green School. Familiar with that? Yep, it's all, it's all what I love about Green School. It's very, like everything's very practical based. They're not just learning concepts, they're applying them there. So like they're, you know, innovating and creating energy, sustainable technology on site and they're building bridges. And it's not just learning mathematics, but they learn mathematics in reference to like, how can I use this to calculate the measurements of this bridge and to create these infrastructures. So that's something I really like about that is like the practical application of everything that they learn and how it's very environmental based, which is a value of mine and her father's. So that's also something we're kind of considering. I personally don't have the patience to homeschool if I'm very honest. Fair enough. Mostly because I am extremely creative and I actually need time and yeah, that kind of avenue for myself. But we have also considered having a tutor with her and traveling and giving her world experience in that way. Um, but yeah, it's, it's a dance because I'm also in a co parenting dynamic. There's a lot more complexity to, to making those decisions than. Well, I, I think I haven't had the experience of parenting in with a partner. And maybe it's. Maybe it's not true, maybe it's more complex for the partner. But yeah, I've got to consider. We've got a. There's three of us that we've got to consider. So it's, It's a dance. Yeah. Well, it sounds like there's a lot of awareness and attunement and kind of the decision making, not on, on a kind of personality basis, but also listening to the, the essence of her soul and where that's kind of being guided. So I'm hearing in your decision making a lot of what you're actually sharing and supporting others with as well. Which is, which is beautiful. Yeah. And you know, you, you mentioned one of the other things on when I, I think when we first met, you were a bit more connected in some of the Datini work and, you know, supporting people in this way. And certainly a child that's writing, you know, penises and vaginas on lots of cards and stuff. There's. There must be a, you know, some kind of connection to our, you know, sacred sexual self and being, you know, feel that I'm quite connected with and often, you know, teaching and supporting people with. What's your, you know, take on that? Especially, you know, on this topic of parenthood and bringing in a healthy dialogue and conversation for youth around sexuality. Like we're. I'd love to hear some of Sigourney's wisdom on this one because this is a very alive topic, I feel with parents especially. Yeah. It's. As a child who was. Had a lot of sexual energy and creative energy. Same energy. Right. And that had to learn how to work with that. Didn't. Didn't do that well in childhood. I'm just gonna say I remember going to school and sitting there and, you know, touching myself in class and all the kids would look at me and be like, what is she doing? I'm like, what. What are you looking at me for? Like, I don't, I don't understand. This is weird. Why. This isn't weird. This is what we do that we're supposed to. We have a relationship to our body. What's wrong with you? Yeah, and I, like, I have, you know, I'm Born the day before Raven. She's 11. 11. I'm 1011. I've got a stellium in Scorpio, so I'm sun, conjunct, Pluto, Lilith, Mars, Mercury. So, as you can imagine, there's. There's a lot of sexual energy there and it's been a big part of my path and. And in the more recent years since becoming a mother, actually, and, you know, as I stepped onto the path of motherhood, I decided to take a break from my work in the field of sexuality, mostly because I felt to dedicate that energy to the creative force that was my daughter and to kind of work it in a different way. And it does. Your. Your relationship to sexuality changes during motherhood too. And I mean, your hormones massively change. Like, you're not bleeding, you're cultivating life inside of you. It's. It's a very different experience. So I kind of stepped away from that field when I fell pregnant, and I'm actually only starting to step back into that field. I've started writing this book in India recently on my journey, or it's my memoir of my years working as a dakini in Melbourne. And, yeah, it's been an interesting journey with a child also that is similar to me in that respect and has started exploring those parts of herself already. I've already educated her on her anatomy. She already knows about her sexual anatomy. We've already taught her boundaries and consent and, you know, about her private parts and all of these kinds of things. And I feel like actually the earlier. Well, this is my perspective and particularly in light of what's happening here in Australia, I don't know if you've seen, but there's been quite a few child pedophilia cases within daycare centers, like prolific cases where there's been thousands of children and potentially infected with STDs. So it's like, it's a lot emerging here around that. And my daughter never went to daycare and I chose to never put her in care outside of. Like, we actually have. My father, her father and myself have strict boundaries around, you know, who she's allowed to be around. And we actually don't allow her to just be in male company. And, you know, we've got. We've just kind of set up like ultra safety nets there. And she's also got education around her anatomy and her sexuality from a very young age because she's also showed interest in that. You know, I found her in the shower with a toothbrush a number of times exploring that so I've just taken that as an opportunity to teach her about her sexuality and yeah, teach her about boundaries and consent. So, yeah, I feel like it's important to, to teach them earlier on and they actually, she's been really receptive to that and has really taken it on in a really healthy way and she's only three and I actually feel a sense of like if anything was to happen now, she would come to me and she would share her experiences with me. I feel quite empowered around that. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's been an interesting journey. Yeah. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. And you know, what I, what I hear and what you're sharing is a, a strong sense of like taking responsibility as a mother in, in early education. And I, I have such a longing and a wish that that would happen. And that comes from you having, you know, a lot of experience and maturity and understanding it. You know, in these areas where I feel like so many parents, the moment, you know, a child is touching their, their genitals, it's like, no, stop. You know that you can't do that. And then it just, it just perpetuates the, the cycle and, and then parents wonder why there's, you know, such levels of shame and, you know, uncomfortability around sexuality and, and you know, I don't know if they'd realize it's a direct reflection of what's happening inside of them. So I, I really commend you. And yeah, I feel quite similar in my own journey, sepi into fatherhood, to just allow the naturalness, not a forced education, but just in those moments when it's there to, to bring it in and not, not a forced place. So, yeah, you know, hats off to you. Sounds like you're. And I'm sure the education will only continue as she gets older. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I, like, obviously you gave an example there, but what else would you say to, you know, parents, whether they're, you know, I know you worked with a lot of clients and have people, I'm sure you come across situations who, you know, are trying to have healthy conversations and support, whether it's with their 3 year old or their 10 year old or, you know, 15 year old. What, what are some of the things you might offer to support parents in this way, to navigate the, the, these challenges a bit more? I've actually seen that there's some, I haven't ordered them, but I was going to order them and have, take a look at them, but there's some good educational books out there that actually teach on like sexuality and boundaries and consent to like as young as toddlers. So watch this space. But I'm gonna actually order them and check them out and, and like have a look because there actually are resources out there as well. I think just reiterating what you've said as well is to not create, you know, shame around that experience or their experience with their sexuality because as we know the more we create shame around something, suppress something, the actual, the more they are actually going to, that's going to only amplify any kind of behaviors. Like it has the opposite effect to what we wanted to often. So yeah, just really approaching it with a sense of like not playfulness but playful curiosity and yeah, unshaming dialogue. I guess I can't really speak to how I'm going to approach it, you know, during those teenage years because I'm really not there yet and I, yeah, I'm not, I'm not there yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And you know, I, I, it's kind of a little subject change, but also it's connected, you know, in your work with Soma Mystica. And you know, I'd love for you to just A kind of give a general description of that work and, and B how that correlates to the, the, the, the trauma and often the unconscious patterns that people are holding in their body. You know, I've just been been teaching in the field of, of this for a while and teaching practitioners and you know, helping people rewire their nervous system and come into a healthy state of a lot of the deep traumas that they've gone through and you know, been in that for a while and I have my own approaches and ways and I'd love to hear especially when it comes to some of this, you know, like some of these child in these Australian daycare systems are going to later in life have some, you know, trauma based pieces around being touched inappropriately and some of the things that have happened there. So, and that mainly exists it gets shut off, it gets put into a different part of the brain and we're not able to actually access it. But it impacts our day to day decision making. You know, I've just been listening to the Body Keeps the Store from, which is a great book on this whole subject matter. But I'd love to hear especially how Soma Mystica really helps bridge this gap between healing trauma, awakening into our somatic intelligence and also connecting to the mystical realms of this work. Yeah, beautiful. So, so Mystica Yeah, was really birthed to bridge two fields which I feel have not been bridged very well. And that is the, the field of medicine. And you know, these physiological teachings on the body and the field of spirituality, I feel like often they're, they're kept very separate. And my experience is. Well, I worked in the hospital systems around Australia for 12 years. 12 years, nearly 12 years. And yeah, within the hospital systems I was specialized in the field of neurology, which is a niche kind of field which basically looks at the nervous system and works with neurological disorders. So I kind of developed a level of expertise around that and my role was really in diagnosing clients that had neurological disorders. So anything from anything acute, like acute brain injuries, strokes, multiple sclerosis, Gillian Barr to anything more subacute, which things like fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, conversion syndrome and these more chronic disorders. And so interestingly, as a part of my journey in that field, around six years in, I started to notice that I had medical intuition and I started seeing things in clients bodies. I actually detected a tumor in a woman because I had a vision of a lump in one of her breasts and it ended up saving her life because I, I just told her, I think you need to go and get this tested. And she did. And she was right at that point where she was able to have surgery and it was very effective. And so I eventually got to a point where I was extremely overwhelmed in that system because I was hypersensitive. I was, you know, before I was walking into a client's room, I could hear everything that was happening in their body and I didn't have any mentorship around that. I didn't know what was going on. But I started to get very sick working and showing up to those environments where, you know, there's so many sick people and unfortunately the hospital systems often are not making them healthier or providing a very nourishing environment for, for wellness. And so I just couldn't be in the that system anymore and stepped away. And you know, actually soma mystica came quite a bit later. During my time in the medical field I was also practicing as a takini. It's like working in the hospital system by day, Tikini at night. I love it. Actually a lot of I am a day job, night job and yeah, like having really beautiful and profound experiences. Working mostly with men, supporting men to yeah, connect with their bodies and heal from trauma, particularly you know, sexual trauma. But beyond trauma, it was just like supporting to actually feel alive and come alive and develop a relationship with their eros and sexuality. And yeah, I've also, you know, studied in Nepal and India and I won't go too much into all of the training I've done, but I'm death dueler and medical astrologer and I've worked a bunch in different eastern and esoteric fields. And so Soma Mystica basically bridges these worlds together. And in my experience they're actually not separate. And in the east, you know, these, these fields are bridged. Like if we look at Ayurvedic medicine, which you know, is the original traditional medicine, they don't see the physiology and the, the, the spiritual nature of the self is separate. It's, it's all kind of grouped in. And even Hippocrates, you know, used to talk about spiritual medicine and that every, every diagnosis, every condition actually has a spiritual root. Steiner said this. You know, a lot of your ancient medicine practitioners said this. And you know, here we are taking the Hippocratic oath and actually we have no understanding of, we don't have any connection to how spirit is informing matter and the body. And so really what Sima Mystica does is it bridges these philosophies. And I teach a lot on the five bodies, you know, the physical, emotional, mental, soul, spiritual bodies. And I teach clients how to work with these different aspects of the self and to really listen to the field and the field intelligence, which you know, is a part of the, the physical body but which also surrounds the body. So yeah, a lot of the work that I do is in attunement. It's in teaching practitioners how to become more sens ties, to listen to what's actually happening in the field and to guide clients to be able to actually just harness their own intuition and let their body speak. So I look, work a lot with something called like autogenic movement and these processes that actually allow the body to reveal its natural intelligence and in doing so actually what's there is able to actually heal without story. And so yeah, in my experience that's been the most powerful and effective way to approach trauma is actually through working with these autogenic movement processes and these processes that work with unconscious trauma. Yeah, I love that the practitioner work I'm doing is kind of emerging of psychotherapy with hands on tantric body work. But essentially it's coming to the space of can we be with someone and listen to what's there rather than having a predisposed set of conditions of where we think we need to guide them. And what I'm hearing you share is a very Similar framework, but utilizing your background to do so. And I mean, I can imagine for, you know, coming from the hospital background and working in that framework to then birthing something like this. You know, people from that world probably are like, but. But this, this isn't. There's a. There's a logic, reason and understanding here. Sigourney, I need more like, you know, if A is, B is C, the, the frame of that. So where, you know, it's interesting because I have. Oh, sorry. No, no, no, no. I actually have a lot of people from the medical system training with me. I have a woman that's in the field of psychiatry who's actually weaning clients, like clients with addiction off their psychiatry medications using the techniques that I've taught her. And she's having more profound effects. She's based just outside of New York. I actually sent a client to her like two weeks ago, and within one session, the client's frozen shoulder was completely unlocked, like having really profound experiences. But yeah, she's working in the field of psychiatry. And so I've got a lot of my client, my practitioners or my clients actually bridging and taking this work back into the medical model, which was always my dream. I always wanted to do that. I was trying to create change inside of the system and I just couldn't. I was constantly hitting walls. It was too frustrating for me. I was in arguments constantly. So I realized that my dharma was not inside the system. I had to create something outside of the system and then train people that are actually doing the work in the system to take it back inside. But I just don't fit within that. I just don't fit within that system myself. But yeah, so we are, yeah, bridging those worlds. And I did a TEDx talk last year and spoke about, you know, the emerging technology in which we can actually start to work with, to start to detect, you know, like, symptoms before they become physical. Like detecting symptoms in the energetic field. Trauma can exist in the energetic body without actually being in the physical somatic body, for example. And so. And we can actually detect this using certain medical devices. And so part of my excitement is around, like really merging these worlds because I can talk to. I can talk to both and you know, a couple of really potent books to kind of explore if you're like excited about this topic is Energy Medicine by James Oshman and the Subtle. The Subtle Body by Cindy Dale. They really bring in like a lot of evidence based work for working with the biofield and working. Hands off and actually working with field intelligence. And I feel like this is, this is just the, the trajectory of where medicine is going actually is to start working with field intelligence and energy medicine. And do you feel like. So I have a, I have a couple of clients I'm working with right now who are quite strong in working with the, the. Where AI integrates into the medical field. Where do you see that as a bridging gap, you know, between energy and, and I know that's a whole Pandora's box, but it's, it's alive, you know, and, and, you know, and I see the, some of the things with AI, like if people, they're able to get multiple diagnosis on different situations they have from AI models and sometimes having better, you know, input and results than they're getting from their doctor. So where, where does, where does AI integrate into this, this kind of bridging gap of energy medicine? I mean, it's the future. It's where we're heading for. Sure. And I do think there's a lot of benefit to it. You know, I have seen, I saw someone's recent post about how they were able to decode what was happening in their body through AI and no doctor could actually support them. So I think there is something really beautiful and beneficial about working with AI and in saying that. I was having a conversation recently with my ayurvedic doctor in India, and we're talking about this exact thing how a lot of doctors are also just sitting there inputting symptoms into like a chat now and just pulling up possible diagnosis and using that. And it's not developing critical thinking. Like when I was in India and I was sitting there and like, he was doing my initial diagnosis using, you know, pulse reading and tongue diagnosis. But he would go into trance, so he'd sit there, his eyes would roll into the back of his head, he would go into trance and he would basically like, sense what was happening in my system. And that's also very similar to how I work as a medical intuitive. I can read what's happening in someone's body before I, you know, look at their charts and read what's happening in their medical astrology and do all of the rest of the, you know, more formal diagnostics. And so I am more intuition led. And then I actually work with, you know, I do testing as well just to validate what I'm sensing. But really that, like, we're devoid of that in Western medicine. There's. We don't see that really, like, we don't see any kind of intuition based practices at all. And I feel like that's going to be more and more eliminated through the use of, of chat. I do feel like it's really important. Like there's. Yeah, there's something really beautiful about being able to actually work with like subtle energy medicine and being able to tune into your client and read what's happening with them on that level as well. So I think it's positive in many ways and also I think it's gonna, yeah, it's really going to turn people into robots a little bit, but we already have that issue in the medicine world anyway. Unfortunately. This is, this is accurate. Yeah, I feel quite similar in that and you know, I guess part connected question to this, you know, and, and this also connects the dots in some of the Dakini work is, you know, often with bikini work or just, you know, hands on tantric body work. There's a lot of hands on the body and I often feel in the medical world that they, you know, especially you know, mentioning a woman working in, you know, with psychiatrics and things, it's like there's a, a strong place. Do not place your hands on the body and that's, you know, not the right place to be. And I see a, a culture in a community, in a humanity moving farther and farther away from human touch because of things like AI and how, you know, devoid people are from human touch and this longing that happens inside of that. So I'd love to hear some of your, your thoughts on this because this is something I see is almost terrible at, you know, epidemic that's just taking away our capacity to have human touch, to touch and with doctors or with, with mediums or, or. And how do you address that with the work you're doing? Yeah, yeah. I mean like as Gaba Mate says, it's like it's not actually like children that are left that are given all of their basic needs that are not touched will, will die. Like it's actually, it's not, it is a core need. It's a core human need. And particularly when it comes to, to healing actually, you know, without co regulation, I actually feel a lot of the time we're just exacerbating people's symptoms without the capacity because it just exacerbates this, this concept and this understanding that we're these separate beings and you know, there's this, this issue that we need to fix and it like really dials in on this pathologizing point of view. And I feel like one of the beautiful things about touch and you know, the, the work, you know, particularly that I've done as a Dakini and the work with touch and this co regulation process is it really dissolves those kind of core wounding and barriers around feeling separate and. Yeah, which is, I feel one of the core splits that creates a lot of our issues actually. So yeah, touch is a really core part of what I teach. I have one particular body of work within Summer Mystica that's all about co regulation and field entrainment for healing. It's called spinal attunement and there's methodology to it etc. We work on the spine and on the, the cranium and on the sacrum with different touch processes. But all of the, you know, the before even getting to a point where we work with touch, it's about entrainment. It's about field entrainment. So I'm teaching you know, my practitioners about Taoism and energy cultivation practices and how to actually train your own state into a state of, you know, balance and homeostasis. Because that immediately like when you walk into a room like the, your energy state's going to impact your clients and there's going to be, there's an entrainment process that happens there. There's a co regulatory practice that happens. So if you're walking in after you know, stressed and you've had a really morning or something, you're walking in to treat your client, then they're going to be in training to you, they're going to be holding like mirroring you basically. So it's really, it's, it's so important and I think you know, touch aside like people in the medical industry should be learning about state. It is, you know, can be explained scientifically. We can look at like brainwave states and you know, like what that does to the nervous system and that those kinds of impacts, yeah that CO regulation or you know, our state has on our client can either amplify their symptoms or it can actually support in the complete dissolution of their symptoms. And this is what like a takini does actually. It is through this process of merging and co regulation that that the healing happens. So you know, even when I was working in the medical industry that was still in, in a sense I was working as a takini whilst I was not doing sexuality work like I was working with state entrainment and a lot of my clients would, would heal without me actually putting my hands on them just through me being able to mirror them and stage shift and support them to drop into safety. Because when someone feels safe, they they. They heal organically. It's not something you have to do. Yeah, I love that. And, you know, I'm curious, and this is kind of more around your own personal journey, but, you know, having brought a child in the world and obviously having a lot of creative fire in your body and your belly and a lot of things coming through you and, you know, not in relationship with your. Your. Your child's, you know, father anymore, how is, how is your own personal relating world? How it. You having time for, you know, relating time? How's that working out for you? I'd love to hear. This is a fun one. That's it. It's beautiful. Yeah. So I. My pregnancy and postpartum period was. Was actually quite traumatic. I split off with my daughter's father early on in my pregnancy, and it wasn't a nice journey, I'll just put it that way. There was betrayal during pregnancy, and there was also a lot of lies. And, you know, as a woman who's pregnant and all of her senses are heightened, I was able to. To feel everything that was happening. And when I was being told something else, it was creating a lot of cognitive dissonance inside of me. And so my pregnancy was really tense. I didn't feel like I had emotional availability for relating. And the same goes like, actually in my early postpartum period, probably the first. I think nearly the first year, I was celibate, actually, and just in a process of, you know, diverting my attention to the journey of becoming a mother and also to healing. Like, I was having a lot of mediation with her father, and we were, despite it being very traumatic and like, very tense, we were committed to doing it together. And so that required a lot of repair. So I just didn't have capacity in those kind of early years. But I think when she was about. About a year and a half, I actually started traveling over to. To the UK and taking her around the world with me. And I, yeah, started a lovership with a really close friend in, in the uk and that was really beautiful because I already had a safe, you know, connected bond with him. And so we could just drop into intimacy. And I was able to, like, heal a lot of the tension that I, I had towards men from my experience during pregnancy, through that relationship. And yeah, since then I've. I've been dating and it's been nice, actually. I, yeah, I feel like things are only really just like, starting to. To turn on more in my dating world in the past, like, six months. But it's been a. I've had to work through some really big pieces to, to come back into trust and you know, to open my heart and also to, you know, bring someone into my sphere and reality. As a mother. Yeah, and also as a single mother, like there's a lot of stigma around that and there's a lot to kind of overcome, I feel in terms of like, worthiness, of inviting love in and just some personal pieces I've had to move through to come back into healthy relationship with. Yeah, of course, of course. And in your relating world, do you, you, you know, in envision a, like bringing more children in the world? Do you feel like that that's a, that's a complete piece or, or is that like, you know, because I wanting to be dating as a, as a single woman, you know, without children. Another thing to be dating, you know, as a mother and you know, the different beings and people that come into your field and what, where do you obviously never quite know, but where do you see the trajectory of, of your life moving ahead in those realms? Yeah, well, I never knew if I was going to be a mother or not to begin with actually. Like I, I wasn't, you know, one of those young girls that plays with Barbies and dolls and really wants to be a mother and is maternal. I wasn't overly maternal. It wasn't until I was doing Haydn, actually mystery school training that I actually dropped into a deeper core need around, or desire around becoming a mother. And six months later I was pregnant. So it just, it just happened really quickly. And I did see a Vedic astrologer when I was 24 and he said I would have a few children, some in my late 30s. I'm 30, my 35 now. So for me it hasn't ever been like a matter of like, I really want children. It's been more of a process, of an emerging process and something that has come through with certain people and not with others. And so I feel like it's this like alchemical process that occurs when, you know, when you meet the right person, like sometimes this being appears and you've got to be like, okay, is this something we want to do? Or, you know, it's not for me, it's not inherent desire to, to bring lots of children into the world. And in saying that my body's desire would be to have infinite amount of children and milkmaids and I have a really strong biological desire. If you're into human design, I have the 59,6 channel, which is the mating channel. And so my body would just have children I've, I've actually fallen pregnant three times and I'm extremely fertile. Hence I also have a lot of creative energy. So I feel like if I just left it up to my instincts I'd have a whole bunch. But because I really, I love having space and freedom and creativity. Yeah. If, if I do have another child, I will need to be set up in a way which allows me to have still a lot of space for that. So yeah, I've, I've, I've considered it, I've been considering it and I would set myself up differently to how I did it the first time. Yeah. Which, I mean I was totally just thrown into the taps. I didn't really have much time to set myself up. But I have, I have. And I would build myself to a point where I could have a full time nanny and still have a lot of liberty whilst being a mother. Might be, might be Bali on your forefront then. He doesn't want to move to Bali. Okay. No, he does. Oh, he does. Okay. Great. Great. Yeah. I mean Bali is it. We're, we're generally out there from about January through May or you know, babies coming in September and we'll. And that's one thing I've seen with a lot of young parents in Bali is, I mean the Balinese are just amazing with young children, you know, and just some of their, their cultures and the way that they are with children is, is amazing. So I'm very blessed that we get to, you know, be in the vibration of Bali with, you know, with our first child and we're, you know, wanting to have another one as well. So. Yeah, yeah. And I love that you mentioned the, the Vedic astrology because for me, as intuitively I always felt I'd bring children in the world around 42, 43. And then it was sometime in my like mid-30s, I had a reading with a Vedic astrologer and who basically like put that in astrology perspective because I'm, you know, just end, ending the end of like a K2 period and, and then sometime right around now. Yeah, sometime right around now I'm going into like 20 year Venus time frame. So. Yeah. What's your experience of the K2 period? That's what I've been in. I mean it was just been a lot of creation and outward movement and reaching into the world which has been a lot of my work the last, you know, five to seven years especially. And I'm, I can also feel that like pulsing inside that's moving me towards, you know, grounding and Landing and. And still continue to do my work, but in a different way with. Without as much travel. But clearly there's a reaction in there to tell what's your experience of the tattoo period? It's been really intense. Yeah, really, really intense. Just constant friction in my being. I feel, like, this constant pressure to drive things forwards. Like, not much time for relaxation, that's for sure. I'm looking forwards to my Venus period, which starts at 43, is like, life's gonna get really good for you after 43, which I feel. So I just have to get through this, this period. But I feel you. I'm deep in it. You'll thrive, I'm sure. It's like. It feels like being in a pressure cooker where, you know, the diamonds being formed, but it. Yeah, it's. It's really uncomfortable. A lot of. A lot of karmic relationships as well. Did you find that? Yeah, there were definitely. I mean, for me, my. I can't remember exactly when I ended. Started this period, but, you know, relationship relationships for me have been my deepest, you know, evolutionary tool, you know, and. And, you know, as I was just sharing with you in my current dynamic, it's such a different relationship compared to what I've had the last. You know, several partners I've been with have just been these very large, like, verbose, intense, you know, like someone as Raven, who's a triple Scorpio, who I love so deeply. I just had her on the show recently, and. But there's just, like, I notice in my nervous system now with Natasha, who's an amazing woman. It's going to be an incredible mother. Super intuitive, connected to, you know, Kundalini and Energetics and, you know, but just, like, there's so much more, like, ease. I feel so such a level of, like, ease in my own body system. It's very, very nurturing. And, you know, and especially now as her, as a mother, she's like, she just want cuddles. And, you know, her sex drive is through the roof as a mother, and it's like, wildly intense, which is amazing. I love that. And there's just a deeper simplicity that my whole body is just, like, celebrating. She says to me all the time, she's like, you know, I don't need to know about all the relationships you've been, but I'm so grateful to every single one of those women because it's made you so amazing. So, yeah, deep, karmic relationships for sure. And it's, you know, it's. It set me up to Be very at ease going into this next big phase of life, for sure. Beautiful. Yeah. So I'd love to, you know, if there's. We mentioned a few things that you're doing in the world, but if there's any, you know, other new projects or anything else that you'd like to speak into before we close here, love to. To hear anything else of where people can find you and how they can dive into. And I, I feel quite drawn to wanting to go study into Soma Mystica as well. I feel like you'd be a good support for the. Yeah, the. Just in the baby portal. October. I said it's going to be in late November. Yeah. So I'm mostly hosting trainings over at Soma Mystica. So you can find us on Instagram at Soma Mystica. One word. All of our trainings are in our link tree and on that feed. We do have a website, but it's been updated@somamistica.org and then my personal work is Sigourneybell.com my website is not very exciting, but my books are there. I've got two books up there at the moment, Wild Business, which is an book I wrote Pre Baby and the Mother Wild Revolution, Cultural Change Through Generational Activism, which is being. Yeah. Published this month. Actually, first copies go out this month and it's going to be in bookstores as of next month, which is exciting. That's. That's there. The Dakini memoirs will probably be, I'd say, like later this year. That's another book that I'm releasing. Amazing. Amazing. Well, thank you for the, the work you're doing in the world. Thank you for your beautiful transparency and just your, your ease and grace as a, as a woman, as a, you know, practitioner, as a business owner, I have much respect and appreciation for the path that you, you take and I'm grateful to have you as a friend in my life. Thank you. Likewise. Thanks for the conversation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was super fun. So thank you everyone for tuning in here at Love, Sex and Leadership. And if you enjoyed this episode, please like or subscribe and follow Sigourney. Go check out all the work that she's doing and look forward to seeing you next time. Thank you, everyone. Have a beautiful day. Thank you.