He is a helicopter pilot, paragliding instructor, and extreme sports adventure,
who's captured the world through his lens for National Geographic,
Playboy and Leica, where he is a brand ambassador from the Alps to Africa.
His journey has shifted from documenting adventures to living it through hunting
and conservation, telling the modern story of what it means to live close to nature.
Welcome to the Silver Corp Podcast, my friend Florian Lagner.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm very excited to be here.
Thank you.
Well, I'm excited to have you here.
The last time you and I hung out, we were in Nuremberg and you were
regaling me with stories of adventure and daring, and I just thought if we
can just distill just a fraction of what we were talking about before,
for the Silver Core Podcast audience, this is gonna be a successful episode.
So, uh, I'm, I'm really stoked to get into this one.
Same here I am kind of curious.
You've lived a pretty adventurous life and I kind of want to know
the origin story of all of that.
'cause you've chosen a very intentional path of doing things that most
people just read about in magazines.
How did this all start?
I started,
uh, I, I, I went to boarding school, Phil, maybe that's, uh, that, that
is the reason why I lived this life.
Uh, and it felt like prison.
Mm. And so when I came out, mm, um, I, the first thing I did, I self-taught
myself paragliding and, uh, and it was at the very beginning, so yeah, because
there were no schools that we were only a handful of ski instructors trying to
jump off the hill and see what happens.
And so, um, we, we, uh, and then people started asking me, uh, you know, how
is it, because I was so fascinated.
You could see it in my eyes.
I was just, I, I looked up this guy all the time and I just, a, anything
I wanted to do was fly, fly, fly.
So, and my, my father has a little, used to have a little woodcarving
storm, so some clients left the camera and he didn't, he kept it for
a year, but they never came back.
So he.
Didn't know what to do with it.
So he gave it to me and I started taking photos out of the paraglider
because I couldn't explain in words how fascinating it was.
So since nobody did that, I was able to sell my photos quicker than
if I would've started with fashion or food or any other photography.
So that's, that's how it started.
And uh, I, shortly after that, I went to Australia for a year and I crossed, um,
I crossed Australia, um, on motorcycle.
I worked as a. Uh, CZE Karoo, which is a Australian cowboy, and
I, um, uh, worked as a paragliding instructor and I did a apprenticeship
with a fashion photographer.
So after that I went home and sold all these stories and this was what actually
started my career.
You're not a professionally trained photographer, are you?
You, you just taught yourself how to take these pictures and then all of
a sudden you're doing it for National Geographic and for Playboy and for
big magazines and publications.
Yeah.
Well, it happened step
by step.
I was very lucky on the way, and in fact, uh, the brother of the director
of the school I went to, he was, uh, working for, and uh, his name is Kyle
Foresta and he helped me into it.
We had a deal.
I taught him paragliding and he wrote the articles for me.
Out of the adventure that I had just experienced in Australia
when I worked as a Jackaroo and I crossed the country on motorcycle.
So that was a very good intro.
And he was very good friends with the chief editor of Playboy.
Mm.
So they made me their specialist for adventure stories.
So we.
Hilly skiing in Canada for Playboy.
I did the Spirit Bear for Playboy.
I did, uh, you know, the, the American government, they capture Mustangs to,
uh, prevent them from being killed and, uh, have inmates to break them
in as a resocialization program.
And I did that for Playboy.
So that was a very strong start because, uh, it's been, I know the
reputation is different, but in Germany, the writers and photographers
who were privileged enough to work for Playboy had a very high standard.
And it was very, it was my, my best client for a long time.
And still, we are still close.
I mean, uh, this is, uh, I even, they even, uh, paid me
to do my helicopter license.
Did they really?
Yeah, they did.
How does that work?
They, they, as I said, you know, this, this, this chief
editor was a friend and he.
He always wanted me to come in once a year and tell him what
I do for in the year for him.
So it was free to me.
That's why I did the spirit there.
This is why I did all these stories.
Um, and I, I told him, you know, like all your readers, like, uh, readers
are male between 20 and 45 or older.
Um, and all men I know.
Wanna know how it is to learn to fly a helicopter, so why
don't I learn it for you?
Yes.
And then I rented, and then I rented a helicopter in Vannas near Los Angeles and
flew it up to Oregon wine tasting, because that's what the Playboy reader wants
too.
Sure, of course.
Well, that's fantastic.
So you just leveraged your lifestyle, the adventurous spirit that you have, and you
use that and distill that for other people to enjoy, and, but you've also used that
to further your adventurous lifestyle.
I think
actually this being in a boarding school for so long, you know, it,
it, it, it, I'm a very, uh, a very free spirit and for me it's very hard
to not be able to do what I want.
So this.
Piled up for 10 years.
And so ever since I went like, oh, I want to do a horse safari.
I want to do this.
I wanna, uh, go, uh, through the Grand Canyon and a, and a boat and,
and I just always try to find people.
I try to photograph it in a way that moves people so that I find someone
who wants me to do it for him, like stir National Geographic and so on.
Out of all of these adventures that you've had both for yourself as well to be able
to share with other people, are there any that kind of stick out in your mind for
the impact it made on you and your life?
Uh, there's a few, but I
think that one big change in my perception was the first safari I did.
Uh, but the strongest one was, uh, a safari I did in Kenya, um, where we
had a moving camp and we, we, we rode for eight, five to eight hours a day.
Doing a safari horseback.
And, uh, we filmed that for Leica.
And, uh, it was a great relaunch and a great chance for me to come
back after a rather difficult time.
And it was kind of a, kind of a restart.
So for me,
there is no better way to live an adventure than in Africa.
Ideally on horseback.
If you can't ride, you can't do it, obviously.
But, uh, uh, it's still cool on motorcycle or four by four or on foot or hunting,
whatever, you know, but, but, uh, preferably I would say a horse picks
far in Africa is pretty much, i, I, I can't, I can't describe anything better.
When you say that you were coming back off of a difficult time, is that
something you're open to talking about?
Absolutely, yes.
Uh.
Um, I was, I, I had a, I had an accident, which physically hit me.
Um, mm. I also went, uh, uh, went through a, it's, it wasn't a divorce,
but I don't know the English word, but I, my girlfriend and I separated and,
uh, and that also hit me financially.
Um, and so, so there were like three columns out of my system that were
not operating properly anymore.
And, uh, and I went, actually, I, I went to get, uh, professional help, uh,
which was the best thing I, I ever did.
And I really, I, I, I think you should do it, uh, uh, uh, in schools as a, as
something every child has to learn about.
You know, you don't need this, uh, personal training, uh, necessarily.
But it's so helpful.
I now use it for creativity, for, uh, you know, if I have a difficult, uh,
nut to crack, then I use it for that.
Um, and it's just so helpful and it's so healthy.
I've, I've totally tressed and, uh, I'm much more successful
since I did these techniques.
It's, uh, it's about, um, hypnosis, self-hypnosis technique that I was
taught to solve the problems Okay.
In the under unconsciousness.
Um, and so, uh, I'm not sure if you heard about my project African Waters,
where I, I I, I, I charged a helicopter in Johannesburg and flew through 10
African countries to photograph water through a, in a special technique.
Uh.
And, um, and I had so many problems along the way with, with, uh, you
know, the, the pilot that I was o obliged to rent with the helicopter.
He couldn't come because his wife got sick.
Then the helicopter crashed.
I needed a new helicopter.
So it was like, there were a a million reasons to stop, but I
didn't because I had learned this technique and, and it was so far my
biggest and most successful project.
I'm, I'm curious about this self hypnosis technique.
Does it go by a certain name or is there a process that you
follow that you found useful?
'cause it's something that I think myself and the listeners would
probably benefit from as well too.
It's called,
uh, in German, it's, so I would say it's auto suggestion technique.
And, uh, it is, it is something, um.
When you get taught, you have someone taking you in un in in your
under conscious mindset setting.
You can compare it with, when you, when you go to sleep, you have this
short period where you go like, oh, ah, I, I must go to the bank tomorrow.
Oh, I forgot this.
Oh, where you let loose of everything else.
And then suddenly all the, you clean up your system.
And that's basically where you guide yourself into, through breathing and
through colors and through techniques.
It's, it's amazing how, how much it does for you.
And, and that's a process that you use in order to be able
to be more present, is it?
Yeah.
Well, I use
it in very stressful situations.
I use it before important, uh, meetings.
I use it, uh, uh, for creativity.
If I, you know, if I. Try to figure out a way where I can defer myself from the
millions of photographers out there.
Um, and, and for, for all kinds of things.
It's, uh, just to relax.
You know, if I'm really tired, I do it for 20 minutes and it feels like you had
slept for three hours.
I just got back from a successful elk hunt.
I was out hunting with a mutual friend of ours with Brad Clock, and, uh, aside from
Brad being a very talented elk caller, he was able to call in a, uh, a beautiful
elk within about, uh, 45 meters or so.
And, uh, stuck around for a while and we decided, yep,
that's the one we want to take.
Took it.
Um, but in between all of that we're chatting and I said, you
know, I got this conversation.
With Florian coming up and, uh, he says, oh, if you're chatting with
Florian, you should talk to him about his motorcycle trip across Australian
Outback where he broke his ribs.
Yeah, that was a tough one
that you have to say that Brett, uh, Brett is, Brett knows a lot about
me because he helped me one day.
I, I did, I did, uh, PR for Mike Wiley for a long time.
Mike Wiley Hill Ski.
Okay.
In the Caribou Mountains.
Yeah.
And, uh, Brett helped me to get my team, you know, uh, looked after in Vancouver.
Uh, he, he arranged a bed for us in the Waterfront Hotel and they took
us out for dinner and it was great.
So he knows a little bit and, um, mm-hmm.
Out of all the adventures, you know, I try to do, uh, proper risk management as
a hunter, you know, how important that is.
And, uh.
And, uh mm-hmm.
And at that time I was testing, uh, camera bags for Low Pro and I, I helped develop
a vest where you don't have a camera bag but you carry everything on your body.
Um, and, uh, and we went through the, uh, uh, it was called the canning stock
route, which is a really tough, rough terrain, bull dust, very hard to ride.
And my motorcycle got stuck at about 80 Ks and I was like, I was stopped
immediately and I flew, and this bike stayed, but I had the only
lens I ever owned with a metal frame
hit.
I think it tore, uh, it broke four ribs and it tore the spleen.
And, uh, and that is very dangerous.
Um, so.
Um, we had to go back.
We couldn't call a helicopter 'cause it was too far for the helicopter to go.
So we had to drive to the next village for eight hours with four
broken ribs in really hard terrain.
It was not a nice experience at all whatsoever, and I was
very lucky to survive it.
No kidding.
Well, you know, there was one thing that kind of, uh, caught my eye in your CV
that you have kind of hidden in there.
You make a statement and you say, at one point I realized I present myself and
as an adventure photographer, but what happens when the supermarket closes?
Can I feed myself?
What's that all about?
I, when I had this difficult time.
A very close friend, uh, and he was the painter for, uh, Playboy Magazine.
So they, they had illustrations and, uh, and when I had the hard time,
I, I took out all the stories that I had made until then and tried
to figure out what am I good at?
Where did I make good money?
Where was it good for the reputation?
Um, and where did I have fun?
And I figured out everything was more successful if, if it was
helicopters, mountains, or horses.
I come from a mountain background.
We used to have our own ski lift, my, my family.
So I started skiing at two.
Um, I then flew paraglider and so my first career was all about extreme sports.
And um, and somehow people made me the.
Adventurer, you know, like, because I always did these stories.
Um, and then I started to market myself.
So this friend painted a picture with me riding my horse with me,
uh, with a helicopter on the side and, uh, and the mountains in the
background with a paraglider and, uh, giraf running through the sunset.
It's a, it's a great picture.
And, uh, and that really, uh, was my new identity.
That's what I wanted to live, that's what it wanted to be.
And then after 15 years of, or 10 years doing that, you
know, it got more and more.
I, I was, uh, in the media quite a bit.
So, um, and then I, I, I realized that, you know, uh.
I, if I go to my, my heart in the mountains, I see the, the signs.
But I don't know, is it a deer or is it a, a, a small deer or is what is it?
You know, I, uh, since I grew up in a boarding school, that's
not what they teach you there.
Right?
Uh, so, um, and, and then, and then I, I just wanted to learn more about it.
And I thought, you know, I, if I market myself as a adventurer and the
supermarket closes, and I don't even know how to, you know, like it's not about
the shooting, but you have to open it.
You have to know where to cut, what you have to know how to keep it, freeze it,
uh, uh, a lot of things that I didn't know and, and I, I really wanted to do it.
And our friend Marcus, that is a good friend of Brett as well.
Um mm-hmm.
He, he teaches, uh, hunting.
And so I joined his, his course and, uh, and finally did my license in 2015.
Way too late.
It was only 2015.
Holy crow.
And you growing up with Marcus, I figured you would've been in it way earlier
than that, than, uh, well, his, his
father is my godfather.
And at you 10 or 11, that's right.
When, when you, uh, and, and what we did, we, we went to the hunting ground and
we were shooting in the shooting range.
And you, like, I had all the chances, but for a long time I
said, my trophy is the picture.
Mm. You know, I, when I did the spirit bear, I would've never wanted to shoot it.
You know, I, I wanted to capture it and my trophy was the image.
But, uh, that changed a lot since, you know.
But, uh, yeah, coming, being so close to this family is total, total nonsense.
Not Yeah.
From the
very beginning, from birth, you know, so I, I can respect that a lot.
I can respect that your trophy is a picture, because, you know, whether you're
out shooting animals with a rifle or you're shooting animals with your camera,
you're experiencing the outdoors in a way that's, I think, deeper than what
most people will expose themselves to.
If you're out there with the camera, you're gonna have to be quiet.
You're gonna have to know the animals cycles and the flora and the fauna,
and where you're likely to see one.
And, and you want to be able to capture an animal in its natural environment.
As a hunter, it's the same sort of thing.
And aside from that split second where you snap the camera shutter, or you
snap the trigger and the firing pin goes forward and the round goes off.
There's so many similarities now.
Things change a little bit after the trigger is pulled and the work
begins and you start processing the animal, uh, you're going home
with memories, not a photograph, and you're going home with meat.
But, um, 2015, you made that, that very conscious kind of changeover.
How has your life been different since you've connected with nature
with a rifle as well as a camera?
I decide
before I go what I do for a start.
I, I never take camera and rifle.
Um, but I changed it.
Okay.
Because, because of this thought that I just mentioned
about the supermarket closing.
And then I have a very close friend, uh, Michael Arle.
He's a, a great photographer as well, and he, he was, uh, uh.
I've been befriended with him for 25 years, ever since I
started working with Leika.
He was, he used to, uh, be there and, um, mm-hmm.
And, and it was a professional decision because I could widen my clientele,
uh, through the, through hunting.
Um, because, uh, in the hunting season, uh, in the, in the
hunting business, there's not so many very good photographers.
There's a lot of hunters that take photos, but there's not many very
good photographers who hunt, who have the license, who can carry a gun
legally, take it to another country.
And, um, and every, and I love, I love explaining, you know, uh, in, in Germany
we have a very, um, uh, conservative.
W many people have a very conservative way of seeing hunting.
It's like old men, uh, very traditional, very elite in Europe,
you know, it used to be the, the, so the own, the, the, the farmers
could only shoot the little animals.
The, the trophies were all reserved for the king or for
the, for the higher standards.
And, um, mm. And I always liked the way, um, I saw hunting in Canada or,
or in the Amer in the United States because it is more, like, more hands-on,
um, for living as I imagined it to be.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, and I try, I now try to, like, when I started
taking photos of, uh, hunting.
Like all the non-hunting magazines would be very, uh, reserved about,
uh, bringing a hunting story.
Now, um, I'm not sure if you know, if you know Stefan from Hamad, wilt the,
also a friend of Marcus, he, they make sustainable hunting in the Ian and
Bavarian Alps and they utilize everything.
So we, I I I, I like the, that I, I was, uh, allowed to hunt on his ground.
I made the lead horse.
I'm going Toto Fest with tomorrow.
Uh, I have a defender limited edition.
And, and, and we use the skins, we use the deer leather skins for the seed.
So, uh, and, uh, we don't throw away anything.
And, um, and that really for me is a good way of hunting and.
Coming into the modern times.
There's also a lot of development that makes hunting safer and, uh, which
also makes hunting more precise so that the suffering is less so, like the new
bullets that are made, the silences that are put on the rifle have all an
effect on how clean and good you hunt.
And, uh, and that I find fascinating.
And, uh, when I did this film that I talked before about the, uh,
horseback safari in Kenya, um, I found out that my, the best I'm at
is to emotionalize technical stuff.
And I also realized that the worst thing I am at is fashion.
I'm, I'm
okay.
I, I did fashion for three years and I, I was divorced.
Fashion photographer.
The world, the, the world has ever seen, I promise you.
But I made good money at least.
Hey, there's always that, right?
Well, since you've gotten into hunting, uh, you've set up, uh, you, you've got
associations with like Hordy and with Savage and with Polaris, and I've seen
your work on like the Hordy magazines.
You open it up and there, there's your photographs inside there.
How do you.
Join.
When you talk about that emotional, uh, relation to a technical product, how
to emotionalize it, how do you do that?
I,
I
try.
I, I come from storytelling, so I try to find an emotional story.
Um, so like what I found really fun, um, we had this super good
looking hunters from Norway.
Uh, if you see her in a city, you would not believe she's a hunter.
You know, she's a very long blonde hair, very beautiful, and, and, uh,
no prejudice, but it was just not someone I would connect to hunting
if I wouldn't met her hunting.
And, uh, and she was an excellent hunter hunters, and, um, and it was
just, uh, a pure joy to see her move through the mountains and be like,
everything she did was very quiet and very smooth and very elegant.
And so we, we went to the, we did the story about, uh, we go to Norway
and live what, from what we catch.
And I, I think we were a bit overconfident, you know, 'cause
I, I've been fishing with Marcus since I was a little kid.
I was, um, I was hunting before I was, uh, we had a very good hunting guide with us.
We, uh, my girlfriend, she's Regina, she knows a lot about berries and,
and mushrooms that you can find.
And, uh, and we didn't get anything.
And, uh, and the, the article ended, uh, with, uh, an, uh, the
sentence we find ourselves in our natural habitats, the supermarket,
because we, we didn't make it.
We, we just didn't make it.
Fair enough, fair enough.
And so, and so, this is, this is an emotional way, like also failing.
You know, we didn't, we didn't hide it.
We didn't pretend, oh yeah, we made it.
No, we didn't make it.
So let's talk about it.
And, uh, and it was great.
It was a great week.
We had great fun, but we had no success.
We, we, we caught one little fish in after three days for five people.
You know, that's, that's not sufficient if you wanna work
and go hunting in the mountains.
And, uh, and the weather was really bad.
And so, yeah.
So no excuses.
We just failed.
So I try to, to find stories, which I think is a, a, a, a great story
that I'm about to do now for, uh, Polaris and Hordy is, uh, uh, that
we, um, there's a mountain ground in Austria on a lake, and Kai Maximilian.
So the, the king of Austria, he used to go hunting there because he didn't
hike into the mountains to get red deer in Samoa because he could drive
by boat and shoot up the up the hill.
So in order to have fun with as hunting guests, with musicians, and
so he built a house and there were also ladies brought in from burg.
So it was a house of joy, good food, fun party, and it was
the first touristic house.
In Austria and now Austria, not in Austria, in Ro, but Roy now
makes 30, I think 34% of the, uh, of the all over income is tourism.
And the first house was a hunting hut.
Huh.
So this is the story I'm gonna tell.
It's, it's one of the, it's on lake, it's Hanzi is the name.
It's one of the most beautiful places I know in, in Austria.
And it's great.
You can go skiing there, paragliding, whatever.
Uh, and also hunting.
And I went there, uh, last year and it was one of the most beautiful
hunting experiences I ever had.
Like the, we went, we started in the snow and then into fog, and then we found the
shawa and, and uh, after the hunt, the sun broke through and the lake came out.
And the morning rise, it was just unbelievable.
I sent you the photos later.
Yes.
Yeah, that sounds interesting.
So I like, there's shows out there like Meat Eater in North America
and what struck me about their approach was that they would show the
failures as well as the successes.
And quite often they'll have an episode and nothing gets harvested,
but they're able to tell that story.
And I think, like from an outsider, uh, I was having this conversation
with somebody who works in, in hunting media and I said, you know, I think
that's, I think that's the ticket.
I think that's the solution to broadening the.
Uh, the audience of people who might be interested in learning more about
the outdoors, learning more about hunting and, and self-sufficiency
is to show that struggle and to show the human story of it.
And the fellow said, yeah, I agree with you.
However, the stats don't lie.
And when we look at the shows that we put out that have a kill shot versus the shows
that don't, the kill shot always gets more attention and it gets more views.
Now, maybe that was the demographic that this person was dealing with that
they're seeing on, but, uh, I don't know what, what are your thoughts on that?
Are we moving away from the traditional hunting grip and grin, kill shot
type, uh, story to something that's maybe a little bit more robust?
Or are we just looking at completely different markets?
I think there's still differences in, depending on where you go hunting, you
know, I think hunting in Russia is.
Quite different to hunting in Africa or hunting in Germany or or Canada.
What happened to me?
I can only tell for myself, I never like to throw away food,
but since I hunt, I hate it.
Um, and that's because first of all, um, you work hard for it.
You know, you do the, the hunting license in Germany, that's quite hard.
Uh, then you go out, you see nothing, you go out again, you freeze, you see nothing.
You don't sleep as much as you should because you went out again.
Um, then you finally see something, it's the wrong animal.
Then you go out again, you finally shoot something, then you process
it, and at the end of a very long time, it comes to your table.
And if then somebody throws it away,
uh, it feels wrong.
And you take a life, you still take a life.
It's not fun, it's not a, I mean, for some people it's fun.
I, I don't wanna comment that, but for me, it's not fun.
I, I, I need a real reason.
I don't shoot for fun, you know?
I don't just do it for, I always use the trophy because it's always a nice memory,
but I would never shoot for the trophy.
I don't need a trophy for like, you know, even though I have them all,
but it's not the reason why I should, you know, like sometimes trophies
are not so good to eat, you know?
But I mean, like the very good trophies, not, not as good
to eat as for the trophies.
And so, but I still have all the trophies and I still remember the,
um, every single hunt I went to.
I've always had an interest in the outdoors and I got into hunting
later in life, like yourself.
And the idea of trophy hunting is thrown around in the media
as a very negative thing.
It says you're just going out there so you can get a rack or you
can get a mount and mounted up.
But since getting into hunting, I've learned that there's a very different
perspective on trophy hunting.
It's a much more selective process where a person will go out and they
say they're very intentional, they're gonna let a lot of animals go on by,
and it doesn't negate the fact that they're still enjoying the meat.
They're still going to use every part of the animal.
But now they've got something that when they look at it, like a friend
of mine, he says, oh, are you gonna get that mounted into a trophy?
When I was, um, uh.
Uh, just getting into hunting.
I was like, no, that's, I don't wanna be a trophy hunter.
I've got no interest in that.
I've got an interest in the meat and I can utilize the, um, the, the
hide for these different things.
But he says, you know, every time I look at one of my trophies on the
wall, it brings me back to that hunt and it connects me back to nature.
And it's, I mean, it's a part of the animal.
Yes, it costs more.
Yes, there's more time involved in order to be able to
preserve certain parts of it.
I still eat all the meat, but now I've got something I can look at.
And it brings me back to that hunt.
And he says, each and every one I can look at and instantaneously have
a memory of what I was doing and who I was with and what I was feeling.
And that, that put trophy hunting, or the idea of keeping trophies in
a very different perspective for me, one that I can get behind, which
is very different from how, uh, the media can negatively portray it.
There's also a, there's also a very important aspect, uh.
That I just experienced in Africa.
I was, uh, I did a, a horseback safari, uh, in, in the OK Vango
Delta, uh, in a camp called Matu.
And they have very, very good guides.
Like, uh, you know, they are, they grew up in the bush.
They ride like hell.
They know everything.
You can ask the many question on, on the planet.
They will have an answer for it.
And I wasn't there the first time.
So I, you know, I, I, and I asked the guides holes in the stomach.
We say in Germany, you know, I asked all day, every day.
So I said to, to one of the guides, I said, what do you
think about shooting elephant?
You know, because I think they're very smart animals.
They're beautiful animals.
We go there, we pay a lot of money to see them.
Uh, they are incredibly beautiful.
They're social.
They have a memory.
Um, it's very hard to decide to shoot an elephant, but, and I'm not sure if this is
the office official version of, uh, safari Camps in, especially in Namibia, but
they have a, a, a cruel overpopulation.
And um, what they do is they sell trophies because a trophy, a strong
trophy, usually is not fertilizing, it's not producing anymore.
They bring a lot of money and the money.
They use for fighting poaching.
I also did a story for Playboy about poaching, rhino poaching
in, in the Kruger National Park.
And when you see what happens there, it's, it's just, uh, mind blowing.
And it's a, that would be a podcast in itself.
But to make a long story short mm-hmm.
If, if they, and they, they have a lot of accidents.
'cause the OB population is so big now that the children, they don't have buses.
They have to walk to school and they have, every year they, a number of children die
because they have conflict with elephant.
Um, and once an elephant has learned to feed itself from a, from a field,
once an elephant has learned to come into a town and confront people,
uh, the whole family will learn it.
So you can shoot that elephant, which is, in Germany we call it the.
Problem elephant or a problem bear or a problem lion.
Mm.
But that costs you money and it's hard to do.
Whereas when you have a professional guide and the tourist paying a hundred
thousand dollars to get that trophy, and you can build a school with that
for the children that is closer to the village, you can, they still eat
all the feed, the, the, the meat.
They always take the meat.
Um, and you help the community in many ways by solving a problem, whereas
you can solve the problem yourself.
And, you know, so I'm not against trophy hunting, don't get me wrong.
I'm just not, I don't like shooting an animal just for the trophy, but
that's my personal I agree opinion.
You know, I don't, I don't blame someone for doing it.
There are good reasons why a good trophy.
It is worth shooting and there's good reasons for it, and
other reasons are not so good.
And then people do it anyways.
Yeah.
Well, I, I've never been to Africa.
Uh, I plan to, that's gonna be a, uh, a future thing.
Maybe I'm gonna have to come to Africa on, look at the animals from horseback.
That might be, uh, an interesting adventure.
Uh, I know a, uh, good friend of mine had some, uh, heart issues
recently and I guess that, uh, he ended up in the hospital and it
was, uh, it was ex rather serious.
And he comes out and he says, Trav, I wanna, I wanna hike Kilimanjaro.
He wanna come hike Kilimanjaro with me.
And I'm like, yeah, sure.
Okay, let's do that.
Maybe, uh, are you sure you're up for it?
Right?
He said, oh, no, I'm sure I'm up for it.
Let's do this.
So, um, that's gonna be something in our sights in the future to,
uh, to check out Kilimanjaro and, uh, maybe look at doing a bit of a
sightseeing animal tour after that.
But the, the idea of the African trophy hunting really kind of, uh, put
things on its head for a lot of people.
'cause on its surface, it sounds terrible.
You bring people in, they're hunting for a trophy and they're leaving.
But when you look at the alternatives, so the animals will die from starvation,
they'll die from poaching, they'll die from, um, there, there's a number of
reasons they could die or they can die in a way that helps sustain the harvest.
That creates an industry where the animals can now thrive, which helps sustain the
environment around and done correctly.
There's a very solid case to be made for conservation,
especially in that African model.
I remember looking, uh, I was having sushi with a friend of mine and,
uh, he's, uh, Zibo background.
Uh, ex British, uh, officer in the military there, and
he gets a text message.
His family ran a large security company and, uh, makes a bit of
a face and puts the phone down.
And I was like, of course, very attuned, picking up on these
little facial expressions.
I'm like, okay, what was that?
Right?
And he said, oh, there's some poachers over in this one area of Africa and
I don't know where, where it was.
And I was like, okay.
He's like, oh yeah, they found them.
Oh yeah.
He said, well, what do you mean they found 'em?
He said, oh, well, he shows me the phone.
There's three of them lined up dead on a, um, on a fence line.
They just, you're a poacher.
We kill you.
Alright.
Very different attitude towards, um, their conservation, the poaching,
how, how the, how the world works.
And it took me a little bit to kind of get my head shifted around this
North American model that we have.
And try and see it from the African's perspective.
And it's, I guess the tough part is not trying to imply my own values and
my own prejudices on a culture and society that's, uh, completely separate.
So that, that was, that was another bit of an eyeopening thing for me.
And,
you know, it's
a war, you know, uh, the thing is in the, in, in the world that there's,
uh, around 35,000 rhinos left.
Um, 15,000 of them are in Kruger National Park in South Africa.
When I was there, we photographed for, again, for Playboy,
uh, from Friday till Monday.
In this time, nine rhinos were poached 500 a year.
Wow.
So you don't have to, you don't have to be a rocket scientist
to calculate how long this.
Will happen.
Um, and it's all about, it's all about, uh, Afro It's not about,
you know, the horn does nothing.
It's like chewing your fingernail.
It does nothing.
But in, I think it was in 1987, in 1987, the president of Vietnam
told in television that his concept was cured from Rhino Horn Tea.
The year after, the numbers of the killings in Kruger National
Park went from 130 to 1,300.
The 10 times more poachers,
totally corrupt.
So, and that's also about money because, uh, rhino horn is more expensive than
cocaine or gold in the Asian market.
Um, 99% goes to Asia because no European would ever spend
the cent on, on a fingernail.
Sure.
That's what it is.
You know, you can have it cheaper.
Yeah.
But if they have no rhinos in the park.
They have no visitors in the park.
So it's, they fight them with, with dogs, with, with, uh, machine guns, like
with, uh, the semi-automatic, uh, rifles, camouflage helicopters, you name it.
You know, they don't joke around.
I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I saw the guys who hunt the poachers.
I wouldn't survive them.
Mm-hmm.
Even if you give me two days to hide, 20 minutes, I'm done.
Yeah.
Incredible.
Yeah.
They're a different breed, aren't they?
Incredible.
Yeah.
Well, they grew up in the bush, you know, they, they know exactly.
They can read in your footstep.
You know, did you, are you hurt?
Are you tired?
Do you have a sore leg?
Do you wear a backpack?
Do you, uh, drag someone with you?
They see everything.
It's, it's very impressive.
I, I, it was a great story to do, to learn.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and, and there's another thing that I would just like to throw in if you,
if you like, Africa is not Africa, um.
There are places, it's, it's when you go to Africa that there's safaris that you
can spend a lot of money, not so cool.
Others, you don't spend so much money.
Very cool.
Others have better food and stuff like that.
So make sure before you go, uh, we have a chat because, uh, uh, especially around
Tanzania, there's a, the tourism is, is pretty hot and they just send some
horrible images from caravans of four by fours that go to the Mara River.
Um, where the, where the wildebeest crossed, uh, the Crocs wait for them
and they had like a, a chain of, I don't know, 104 by fours, just with cameras.
And uh, so the tourism is also a big pressure for nature.
So the, the hunting equalizes in a way, the other tourism,
if that makes any sense.
So, um, I changed my mind a lot about hunting in Africa since I.
Talk to the people.
And, uh, and when I sat on the campfire at atu, the, the guide
chief said, we have to regulate them.
We want to protect our children.
And I totally go with that.
Yeah, I can see that.
Well, tell me more about this horseback touring that you do.
I mean, the idea of horseback through Africa, looking at the different animals,
some of which can be quite dangerous, seems, uh, perhaps counterintuitive, but
maybe not so, because, you know, I've read a stat that, uh, out of all the bear
attacks that have ever happened within North America, no one has ever been
attacked by a bear well on horseback.
So I'm wondering if that same sort of, uh, process carries over to some
of the, uh, the creatures in Africa.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, yeah, the, a horse, a se.
Is a pray for a lion.
The humans can are potentially dangerous.
A horse also is potentially dangerous.
Like even if they attack a zebra, they, they get bad
bruises from the, from the kicks.
So from the point of a lion, same as in a jeep.
You know, like you see often these pictures when, uh, when the tourists
sit in the jeep at the, at the walk and, uh, the lion walks by.
Um, you are not typical prey generally.
Um, what what is to be put into mind is that if you fall off, that can change.
And, uh, you always have exceptions.
I mean, you're in bear country.
If you, if you surprise a mother with cups, she won't ask questions.
You know, she will charge.
If an elephant charges you, you probably, if you stay in the saddle.
You, you, you're fine.
Uh, if it, and so, uh, and they, they have very, very good horses.
It's amazing.
Like, uh, I know how our horses, uh, reacted on the first Lama, you know,
and they, these horses, they stand in front of an elephant, pull 20
meters and, and don't do anything.
They look at them, okay, they are aware, but they're very cool about it.
So, um, when I did my first trip through Australia with a motorcycle, I,
I met a friend who, um, who organizes motorcycle trips all over the world.
And for 10 years he told me that, um, I must go to Namibia.
And, uh, and there were motorcycle trip with his friend Vanna.
So, uh, I met Vanna now and we decided to do tours together in
Namibia with his friend who's, uh.
Who's a, who has a beautiful ranch where you have a lot of good animals.
But it would be a good starting point.
You know, I think if you wanna go riding in the Banco Delta, you
should be a very experienced rider.
Um, but if you go in, in Namibia, you know where the, the desert,
they don't have as many lines and no crocodiles, or not at Kuma is where
we go and they have a great Western trainer preparing them for the ride.
And then you do slow rides and then you, you find some antelopes and you
can work yourself into that thing.
Um, for me, the, uh, the OK Delta is, is it's the Garden Eden of Africa.
It's the cover of my book African Waters.
It's just an unbelievable scenery, but so is the, and so I think if you wanna.
If you wanna learn, if you wanna do a safari in horseback, you
should actually go step by step.
As I said, you know, some have better horses, some have better food, some have
more safety, some are wilder, which is all good for, you know, I like the wild stuff,
but I don't blame anybody who doesn't.
Um, and so that would be something I would consider.
You know, there's, uh, uh, wait a little, they have the big five, but
they have very civilized, uh, horses.
You know, like they very controlled and very safe.
Safe, safe.
Yeah.
That's something I would recommend to someone.
To start with maybe, and then work your ways into wilder and wilder.
And once you've done it, you you're gonna be hooked.
I'm just preparing you.
Don't blame me if you're spent the rest of your life on ho picks about
and you cannot go hunting well, is this something?
There you go.
Is this something that, uh, a, a person would have to have, uh, a fair bit of
horseback experience before going over?
Or are there ones where as long as you can kind of stay on the horse,
you can start figuring it out?
I mean, like a friend of mine, uh, once said he bought a sailboat.
I'm like, I didn't know you could sail.
He's like, what do you mean?
It's a boat and it's a sheet and you catch the wind?
I mean, there's gonna be different degrees of being able to sail,
but anyone can sail a boat.
And I've always kind of thought the same thing with horses.
Anyone can ride a horse, you can get up on the back of it, keep
your heels down and hold on tight.
And, uh, but there's gonna be a difference between those who can
ride a horse and those who can just sit on top of these things.
Like if.
If I had come over with minimal horseback experience, would I
be doing myself a disservice as,
as in hunting?
I, I do have a, a round of partners in, in the horse business.
'cause we, uh, my girlfriend and I, we crossed Ireland on horseback and we,
uh, I did in 2013 I crossed Germany on horseback for National Geographic.
So we have a, a bunch of partners and one of them is Quipe and they,
and they connected me with a Western trainer, Tom Bele from Pro Balance
is the, is the, is his concept.
And if you would, if you would ask me, can I go on Safari?
I wouldn't send you anywhere.
I would ask you to train with him intensively until he says good to go.
If that makes any sense.
Like if, if you find a, a honest, good trainer who can, who can teach you.
Very much in a very short time, and they promise you they give you a safe horse,
then it shouldn't be, uh, a problem.
So now that they are offering like three days training, two days cowboy work and
safari at Kuma is for example, so like three days real preparation, preparation
until everybody's fit to sit on a horse, even though there might be whatever
lion leopard come around the corner and be aggressive, which they are not.
You know, it's very unlikely that a lion or a leopard attacks during the day if, if
you don't give him a really good reason.
And they have guides preventing you from that.
You know, they have not many accidents.
Mm-hmm.
But they will say, but they will say if they see that you lied, you
know, you have to fill out a form.
And if they, we had a, we had a horse business here in the mountains in
Obama ago, and it was just amazing.
Like 90% of the people either believed they were better riders than they
were, or they just lied to us.
We just, uh, and it was, that was not, we have, you know, like we had saved
horses and so it was okay, but, uh, it was not so good for our horses.
But, um, but if you do that in Africa, they will, they will just not take
you, you know, they, they will see it.
And, and so it would be better to train before and be honest about
your skills and then, and then they take you and then you're hooked and
then you wanna train all day anyway.
Well, how much training do you think it would take for somebody to get
a, a certain level of comfort to be able to go and do one of these?
I
what, what I would do is I would take
lessons ahead.
Uh, if you have a very good trainer, um, I would say five
in 10 days bring you to a level.
If you are athletic and not scared.
I mean, it's not, you know, you should have a, a fitness, you should be
able to get up the horse on your own.
Um, you should be like able to roll off if you fall off and not just fall there.
We had one, we had one incident of a, of a, uh, a guest and, uh, we have a
one very peaceful horse and she was just walking and the, and she was not so
balanced, so, and she was holding on the saddle and she, she flipped the saddle
and hang on the belly of the horse.
Still holding off the saddle.
Oh man.
Not,
not so good for safari, maybe.
No, those aren't the pictures you want.
Nope.
Oh, man.
So do you have any dream projects that you're, uh, you're working towards?
When I
started African Waters, I, I still, um, I'm still keen to do Worldwide Waters.
Um, African Waters was super successful in the media.
I never had a story published close to to, to that every big magazine,
newspaper, TV show, everything.
And then COVID hit and then I started to build it up.
Um, and so I did European waters, um, and, um, I was, I was preparing
and I'm still hoping for American Waters or Canada Canadian waters.
Um, both are equally interesting.
And, uh, at the moment I would actually
prefer Canadian waters.
What's the goal of the Waters project?
I know you started with African Waters.
What was the goal there and has it expanded?
The idea is, um,
I, I fly with a helicopter.
I need that for the photos.
So, uh, when, when I find the spot a great, a glacier, a lake, a river, um, we,
we stop the helicopter and we rotate it for a 360 degree photo, which I take with
the like eyes, which is a medium format camera, big sensor so that I stitch.
And so that way you get pictures that are different to all the 2 billion photos that
get uploaded every day in the internet.
And so once I have the attention through this picture.
I go to the ground and I ask the people, I ask the park ranger,
the farmer, the scientist.
Um, I've been, I I've been a member of the Explorers Club
since last year in New York.
Um, so they have a, a, a incredible network of scientists.
Um, and so, and they're all very, it's like a, like, you
know, it's a being in a family.
Once you're a member, they're always helpful with information, with
contacts, with licenses, whatever.
And, um, and so I, uh, what I, I, I, I go to these scientists, whatever,
and tell their story about the water.
It's incredibly exciting.
So, for example, lake Tanika has 17% of the world's sweet water reserves, 17%.
And due to overfishing, it is about two tilt.
Um, I, I could tell you 20 stories.
Now, all glacier in Switzerland has been, uh, one of the largest glaciers in Europe.
Uh, will be gone by the end of the century, um, with consequences that
are not to be, you know, calculated yet, but they're gonna be horrific.
Um, so, uh, every country I know, every village, I know every, uh,
everybody you talk to has a story about water.
Like Venice is thinking.
At the same time, the sea levels rising because they use too much
fresh water for the tourism.
It's, it's built on, uh, po poles and the poles.
When you take the, the groundwater out, the pole sinks, so the city
sinks and stories like that.
Uh, don't get me started, that's gonna beano another, but
this is what I'm hoping to do.
I do it wherever I go.
I do it in Africa, I do it, uh, in Europe.
I hope to do it in Canada and the United States and South America and Asia.
It's always a question of, you know, do I get the sponsors?
It's quite pricey to do it.
Uh, but also when I have the results, I, I do, I make a book, I make a film, I make,
uh, multimedia shows all over the world.
Um, do the pr.
So that's something that, uh, that the sponsors really like because
they get a lot of media attention with the positive, uh, content.
Do you ever get up there in the helicopter and take a photo only to find
out that you didn't have your setting set right, or it didn't turn out?
It happens, but not very often
because, uh, I, I, I think, uh, you know, every, every minute
counts in the helicopter.
Um, and so I, I, I like to be professional, especially
in the helicopter.
I don't like things flying around.
I don't like, you know, not knowing what to do.
Oh, I forgot this.
Oh, I didn't put a, oh, I did this because every, like, every mistake
is dangerous and cost a lot of money.
So it happened that.
Thing happens to me on the motorcycle or when I am, you know, all the time.
But in the helicopter, I'm a little bit different.
It's the same like on, on, on, on the mountain where I come from.
You know, like when we did the Isha pma, the, the 8,000 meter peak, I wasn't
up there, but I was, I went quite far.
So once I get into this super, uh, extreme setting,
then I try to be prepared.
So tell me about this Explorers Club.
It kind of sounds like the, what is that?
Sherlock Holmes has got the DIY Club or whatever that one's called, this exclusive
kind of, uh, uh, ritzy, um, kind of club.
Is that, is that what this Explorers Club is all about?
Uh, it's very cool actually.
Um, you know, it's, it's very much like the, uh, national Geographic Society.
It's a similar thing.
Uh, it was founded in 1904.
Um.
And the first on the moon, the first on the North Pole, the first on the
South Pole, they were all explorers.
Flag.
Uh, club flag carriers, um, which many people in Europe don't
know and you can't apply for it.
You have to be applied by someone else.
Um, and I did a multimedia show in Cabret in the Dominican Republic, um,
with my friend Susie Mai, who's a pro kite surfer, and she organizes ocean
conservation events and, um, and she.
Invited me to do that, uh, and uh, for this conservation.
And I was allowed to speak there and I did my multimedia show and then one Explorers
Club member suggested me to become, and then you need a second sponsor.
They call it sponsor when the, the, the guy who invite, the person who invite you.
Mm-hmm.
And so, and then I was accepted and now I'm a fellow member.
I'm very proud.
Um, and I'm very happy and it's very cool 'cause it's, it's a New York City and, um.
You walk in and you can see it, you see the glove from the first guy on the moon.
You see a ice bear that Chelton brought home at the boat.
He, uh, the, the sled, he used it.
Holy.
It's, it's so cool.
And, and it's, it's, uh, you can go there, it's free.
You can, you can walk in and, and walk through there.
It's, it's amazingly beautiful.
When, when I was, uh, 19 I was traveling through Europe and, uh, it's
when I first realized that I don't belong in the big cities, I thought
I didn't have a problem with it.
But touring around, checking out city after city, and I just got
this feeling of, uh, unease and being completely overwhelmed.
And I ended up sneaking off into the Austrian Alps and spending a week
out under a tarp, just decompressing.
And I'm like, why am I doing this?
Like, what's going on?
I was learning a bit about what makes me tick and what doesn't.
The idea of going to this Explorers Club sounds amazing.
The one place, well, not the one place, but one of the few places in
the world that I've always had in the back of my head that I'd probably
just not like, based on the population size and the busyness and the noise
and, and all the rest is New York.
But, uh, maybe, maybe I'm gonna have to adjust Satter a little bit or,
um, bite my lip just so I can go over there and check this place out.
I am very much
with you and I, uh, my ex-girlfriend studied in, in New York, and I never
could stay longer than four days.
It was like pain, you know, like, yeah.
I, I think it's a very cool city, but it's just for, same as with my,
I have a husky, and if she's in the city, it's just too much information.
It's just, she can't handle it.
She's, she's going crazy, you know?
And same, same as me.
Uh, I, I used to work, I, I used to work in the city just because you need the
contact as a photographer to all the.
Uh, editorial, uh, connections and everything.
Um, and I, uh, but then I moved back out, uh, into the country
where I come from in no baba ago.
And, uh, and, uh, now I don't understand how I could manage to be in the city
At an early age, I was diagnosed with severe a DH.
Maybe I got it.
Maybe I don't.
Maybe I was a product of my environment.
I, I'm not sure.
Uh, they put me on the highest dosage of Ritalin for the province
on an experimental run between grades three and grades seven.
I took myself off cold Turkey before going into high school.
I, whatever it is in my head that ticks is just overwhelmed.
And, and I clearly, I don't fit in.
Like when I'm in a city situation, I'll stick out.
I don't blend in.
I'm not the gray man.
I'm six foot six, 250 pounds and alert to absolutely everything that's going on.
It's like, um, Vegas.
I gotta go to a shot show for the, uh, shooting hunting, outdoor trade show.
And I don't look forward to it.
Um, all the lights, all the people, all the stuff that's kind of going on.
And I've wondered if that's due to sort of the, uh, the A DHD diagnosis
or the, uh, the sort of mindset I'm at.
And when I look at you, although, you know, you employ mindfulness techniques,
you employ hypnosis, you ground yourself in nature, but you're drawn to a lot
of the similar things that I'm drawn to, extreme outdoor type things.
And I'm drawn to that because it makes me really present.
If you're in the helicopter, you're present, you gotta make sure you're
professional, you're dialed in, and every little movement you make, every piece
of kit that you have is squared away.
And, and you're right there in the moment.
If I'm on a rock face and I'm climbing, I'm thinking about my next handhold,
my next foothold, where I'm putting protection in I'm very present.
Same with rafting or paragliding.
Um, I'm wondering, have.
You ever been diagnosed or do you think you come from a background
mentally of, uh, uh, neurodivergency?
Um, I, I, maybe I was very active as well, but, uh, I, I, I see it differently,
uh, growing up in the mountains, uh, you sharp sharpen your senses.
Um, and especially when you like dangerous things, you always go,
like, I always check the wind, always.
It's, sometimes it's annoying for me myself, but I never, you know,
like even when, when I ride, I check the wind for the horse, I check the
wind for the where would I fly now?
How would I land now?
Where would be a, so, uh, I think if you want to be a good pilot, if you
want to be a good, um, hunter, uh, if you want to survive in extreme
alpinism, you have to see everything.
We are limited.
Animals are much better than we are.
But if you don't school that, if you don't sharpen your senses,
you're not gonna live very long.
And once the senses are sharp, they sharp.
And if you go to a city, it's just too many triggers.
You know, like it's just this, this noise here and the sound there and
the smell here, and the animal there, and the guy, uh, watching you here.
And it's just, I don't think, I don't think it's a, it's something that I, uh,
that I would connect with the illness.
I would, I would connect it with a, with a special gift that we are not as, uh,
hump as many people
have become through civilization.
You know, like if I see people moving in nature.
I'm just, I just go like, don't, don't you see this.
Don't, don't you hear this, don't you?
Where are you?
You know, how's the, how's the weather on your planet?
You know?
Um, and, uh, and it, and, uh, to give you an example, a very good friend of mine,
he's son Hunter, and he, uh, he worked in, in the forest business, and he took
as a social program, he took students planting trees because, um, that's good
for the nature, that's good for the kids to learn how to plant the trees.
So he did it every year.
And so, uh, he did it with a famous school here around the corner.
And then, uh, the, the, the teacher said, oh, we have some, we have
some exchange students from Asia.
Uh, can we, can, can they, can we bring them?
Because we don't know what to do with them.
If, if we are all gone and they just sit in the school, they brought them and after
10 minutes they walked in the forest.
And after 10 minutes, um.
My friend turned around and he said, where, where are the kids?
We are not planting over there.
We, we plant up there.
It's on the mountain.
Mm. And the teacher said that, no, they, they can't walk on this ground.
They've never walked on in a forest.
They, they only know tar.
Wow.
And that's the opposite, if you know what I mean.
You know?
Yeah.
That these children, 10, 12, 11 years old, they cannot walk in a forest because
they're not used to uneven ground.
And so that's what, when, when I, when we had the horse business, you
could totally tell that the horses are the first to tell you you're not,
you're, you're not good to trust.
You know, and then, and then you see them and they make a selfie and
they look here and they, everything.
It was just incredible to see how disconnected a, a big part of
our civilization is with nature.
And that's what I love so much about Africa, because that's pure nature and
you have to know what you're doing.
You have to be aware.
You can't walk around blind in the in, in the, in the dark.
You, you won't, you won't survive it.
And, and on a horseback it's even more intense.
You, you're not the end of the food chain, you know?
And, uh, I mean, you guys know that you have bears and grizzly
and, and wolf and, and all that.
Uh, even though the wolf probably attacked less, less than, much less than mm-hmm.
People would expect.
But, uh.
You know what I mean?
It's, it's, it's just, uh, the intensity of feeling alive in nature.
That's what triggers me with Africa and in nature in general.
I love Canada.
I love Bavaria, and there's many nice places, but Africa is a little,
I'm curious about, so the adventurous spirit that you have, you've always
been a free spirit, but what is it that draws you to these, um, more
adrenaline filled adventures, and how is that evolving as you get older?
Um,
it's not getting any better.
And,
and, um, I,
I just, I just started like I, um.
I, I want to give my di my career a new direction.
And, um, I thought about what I can do and, um, I love safari, but
I don't like to be driven around.
Mm.
If that makes any sense.
I don't like to sit in a Jeep and then someone drives you
somewhere and then mm-hmm.
I mean, it's, it's, it's nice, don't get me wrong, but it's not, I wanna be active.
I want to go hunting, I want to go fishing, I want to go
riding, I want to go whatever.
You know, I don't wanna just sit around and be, uh, driven around.
Yeah.
So, so now I, uh, what I'm gonna do in the future is, is uh, try to take my skills
and, and my experiences and my love for photography into Africa and take people
for bike rides and horseback riding and helicopter flying and whatever, because
you know, the, I love that the old.
The, the, the, the old, like what I used to make my living from like shooting for
all those magazines has become harder.
And I am not sure what, uh, artificial intelligence will do to it in the future.
Mm-hmm.
And I want to be prepared.
I never wanna wait until something is too late to change.
I always try to stay in motion.
So that's why I did the mountains and then the horses, and then the safaris.
It's, it's, I don't, once I did it five times, you know, I'm okay.
Like, it, it's, it's cool.
But, but what else is there?
And so that's gonna be my next step that I, that I wanna, that I wanna,
I wanna share all these stories and experiences that I was privileged to be
able through my clients, to experience them and learn how to fly helicopter
and go on safari and photograph it.
I wanna give it, pass it on.
Now, you know, I wanna, mm, I wanna share the fascination I have for
Africa in an active way.
Is there anything that we haven't talked about that we should be talking about?
For,
for me, it, it's, uh, I'm in this process at the moment, uh, that, you know, it's
almost, I mean, I have these programs and everything that I want to offer, but.
I'm still not sure, you know, how I wanna, I have a lot of interviews
in the future, um, for projects that don't necessarily have to do
something with what I do at the moment.
Uh, so, um, and I was wondering, I was thinking about how do I want
myself to be seen in the future?
Where do I wanna move?
So I say like, you know, when I meet other photographers, I always hear,
oh, this is bad and this is bad.
And, and there's a lot of bad things going on.
Um, but for me, I always try to be on the side where I'm active
and where I, I'm the hunter.
I'm not hunted.
Mm.
And that,
for me is important.
And it's, it's a philosophy for life.
Stay in motion.
You know, like if.
If, if you just sit there and wait till it's over, then it's over soon.
And I, and, and that's, and, and talking to you today really helped me to find more
precisely where I wanna see myself in the future and what I wanna do in the future.
And, uh, I, I tested, uh, the first, uh, client.
I'd made a book for him, just for him about the hill horse safari we did
together in Namibia and in Botswana.
I'm gonna send you some pictures, uh, we took there and then maybe you will
understand why the combination of hilly horse and, and all this is, it
makes it such a different experience.
It's, it's, you know, with every safari I come closer to, to, you know, uh,
when people ask me, why do you do it?
Or what do you do?
There as so many aspects of it and so much fascination about it.
But helicopters and horses as my whole life as 20 years ago when I had the
hard time, they, they always pull me
out the dirt, you know, Florian, I absolutely love that.
I am, I'm gonna put links in the description so people can see the work
you've done so they can follow you and see what you're working on next.
And, um, I, uh, I'm really looking forward to seeing the
photographs that you sent on over.
Thank you so much for being on the Silver Core Podcast.
Thank you so much for having me.
It was a great
pleasure.
And to see you in Beck or in Canada.