Cailin: Welcome everyone to Faith and Purpose podcast.
Each episode of this podcast contains the personal testimony of an ordinary person
transformed by an extraordinary God.
My name is Kaylin and I'm here to introduce this podcast
for my friend Jesse Duke.
Jesse is a husband, father, author, life recovery guide, lay counselor,
and small group leader, but his most important role is disciple.
As a disciple of Jesus.
Jesse created this podcast to help other believers tell their faith stories.
We'll be hearing the personal testimonies of all sorts of people
who have one thing in common, Jesus has transformed their lives.
Jesus used parables because he created us to learn best through story.
And as we listen to how God has worked in others lives, we find encouragement
and inspiration for our own faith walk.
Whether you are already a believer or just a curious seeker, we believe that
as you listen to these stories, you will be encouraged on your own faith journey.
We are sure that God can speak to you through one of these episodes and that you
will see that our heavenly father truly works all things together for our good.
When we simply love and trust him.
If you are currently going through a trial, we believe that you will come
to see that your troubles, heartbreaks, and failures are not gravestones, but
stepping stones into new life in Christ.
Here's Jesse with today's guest.
Andrea: Welcome everybody to Faith and Purpose Podcast.
Today I have my friend Andrea Sinclair who's here to share her story and
I'm really looking forward to it.
How you doing Andrea?
Jesse: Doing just great, Jesse.
Thank you.
What an honor to be here.
Thank you for asking, , and putting this together so we can share about Jesus.
Andrea: Well I'm going to give you all the time you need to tell us
what you got to share about the Lord and I look forward to it.
So Tell us how it started.
So
, Jesse: with parents that were both preacher kids.
So both of my grandfathers were Southern Baptist ministers.
And so very early on, I was introduced to church and the Bible.
and following the Lord.
, and it was really, , kind of, , the thing that it, when I look back, not
at the time, but when I look back, is the very thing that kept me from
probably going down many additional roads, , beyond the roads that I went
down to try and find something that would satisfy the way that the Lord does.
So, being the firstborn came with this self assigned protector, gene that
is, is, was true in my blood anyway.
, so it was my job to make sure that my siblings were always taken good care of.
It was my job to make sure that, My parents were doing what
they were supposed to be doing.
It was my job to make sure that, , everything stayed, , even
tempered, , all self assigned at a very, very, very young age.
So my identity was rooted in that, , from probably as far
back as five or six years old.
You know, anytime something went on with my brother, it was, it
was my job, not my mother's.
Anytime my mother was suffering, it was my job, not hers or the Lord's.
So there was a lot of discovery around that, that, , would then add
to some things that, that came in later on, but, , had a younger brother
and a younger sister, and we lived a life that on the outside appeared
to be pretty put together, , with.
My parents being musicians, they always had a, what we'd call a secular job,
and then they had a church job because typically they were building something
like an arts program or an opera company or something of that nature
that they would need to supplement their income around with church work.
So we spent.
Mondays, Wednesdays, Sundays all day in church.
So, my resentment as a child for the church came in early.
, most certainly because, you know, kids want to be out doing fun things
and, and, , we, we kind of saw that as a little bit of punishment.
, regularly until we were doing something fun like going to camp
or something of that nature.
But, , like I said, on the outside, we looked like an ideal family, but
on the inside, there was a lot of suffering that that would go on.
My father suffered from.
Mental illness.
, Early on, right after I was born, , my mother and father, , were in a
situation where he was in a new job with some new pressure and it was
a little much for him to handle and he ended up in a mental hospital.
And when that happened, , the family would, you know, each time
this would happen, they would sweep in and see what needed to happen
to take care of my mom and me.
And then when my brother came along, my sister came along and get things
tidied up and looking okay again, and then they would, off they would go.
, but in this instance, it was, , my mother recounts that if they had stuck
with the diagnosis given to him that first time right after I was born when
he was in the mental institution where the doctor said to my mother, Mrs.
Sinclair, your husband is a paranoid schizophrenic.
And if I were you, I would take that baby and go as far away as possible.
So, that was not in the minds of my father's parents, of course, but it was
in the minds of my mother's parents, and they, , my mother also tells the story of
hearing that information and then hearing his father, my dad's father, pretty much
talk them into giving him a depression label instead of a schizophrenia label.
And then having, , his parents say, Anne Harrod, we'll make sure this works.
We'll get him the help he needs.
And her parents saying, you need to pack up and do what the other doctor said.
To the degree that my mother tells the story of bearing all of that.
She has a husband and a new baby.
and a very abusive father who literally beat her in her own home and told her
she was going to leave him and that there was no choice in the matter.
But my mother said, well, the Bible says that we're married
and what God has joined together.
And what he talked about was being unequally yoked.
So that was a discussion that I would hear play out.
On the phone in person, that kind of thing, pretty much for
the rest of my young adult life, it was, it was always mentioned,
but my mother had the conviction.
She is one of those that is very much a rule follower, very much, , grew up
in the Calvinist, , type of environment and was buying into, this is what
the Lord says about marriage and I can't leave my husband, he is sick.
So, after that, , there would be numerous occasions where he would end up back in
a mental institution, or he would end up in prison, or he would end up, , running
away, basically, and we wouldn't hear from him, and then we'd get a call that
he was, you know, In New York City and he lost time again and that kind of thing.
So, his illness became more and more difficult to hide once things like
the news and newspapers and more visibility became a part of their world.
So, , in my young teen, , life, I would say 11 or 12 years old, I remember coming
home from school and, , I would always cheat a little bit and watch TV and then
do my homework, , but, , I turned the TV on and they had all these, they would
have these little commercials that would say, , you know, here's what's on the
news at six and they give you a blurb.
And I see my dad being arrested.
In a bank down on Grandin Road, which is like five minutes from our house.
And I'm like, Oh, that's why mom's not here.
What in the world is going on?
There was a note from her saying, I'll be back, which never happened.
She taught music in our home.
So she was always at home when we came home from school.
So that type of activity, when it started to play out in the news, , layered
in to me more of this, I've got to be able to control my environment.
Somehow, some way, what can I do to do that?
So I very much was a self starter early on.
I had a newspaper route.
I made sure my brother had a newspaper route because with those
repercussions legally with my dad, , we always had help from the church.
, people were always very kind and my mother was always.
a very hard worker, but there would still be lack.
When you're, when, when, when you've got legal bill, bills and all those things,
everyone knows that's very costly.
So, , anyway, , we became pretty self sufficient, , early on.
And made our own little bit of money to keep ourselves, , sustained.
And with that type of thing came exploration around other
things to remedy the craziness.
, so, I found alcohol at a very early age and learned that that gave me not only
this feeling inside of freedom, but it appeared to give me a lot more freedom on
the outside where my peers were concerned.
Because if I could Arrange for alcohol to be found somewhere and gather it.
Then that meant more people were around me.
I had more friendships and I became the life of the party.
You know, I've always had a lean towards humor, , even in
the most dire of circumstances.
And so I would use that to build that camaraderie, but with that.
came the realization that something was a little bit different about me inside.
, I would notice things like, I wonder why that person can say,
Oh, I don't want any more of that.
I'm not gonna, I mean, and I never, I typically didn't say that until
it was way too late, you know?
So, , so that became, I had early repercussions of, , with my drinking
and so I was like, okay, I've got a little I've got to learn how to keep
that under control while I'm controlling all these other things around me
and, or seemingly to control them.
And it just, the more that went on, the more out of control it would become.
So I had little scrapes, , and then some big scrapes, but finally.
, through prompting from, , , my mother's brother who was vital in
my upbringing as a father figure.
, he said, Hey, why don't you, why don't you move to Atlanta, , move close to
us and, and, and let's let everything calm down, , and see what you can do.
We've got a house that you can live in and, , your granny's
there and it'll be helpful.
So I picked up and did, did the whole move from my hometown at an early age and I
Andrea: this, this was after high school, or?
Jesse: after high school.
I left, I graduated from high school.
I left home when I was, I had just turned 17 and lived with my best friend
and, I was constantly putting my mother in a, in a situation where she would
need to make a decision, either my dad stayed around or I stayed around, but
the two could not coincide because it was just, he, he wasn't reliable, he,
he caused these problems and, and all of this, so, , that type of, that type of,
, pressure in the home became too much.
And she took me up on the offer and, , and said, well, then you're going to need to
go because he's not going anywhere yet.
and he had just gotten back from prison.
We had just been through, you know, just, there was a lot of humility in my mind
to go in to see him on Sundays, people from the church taking us to see him.
And it was a high visibility thing because of who they were.
And so my pride and ego.
Had started to play a factor in the way I operated very early on , the,
the other, the other really interesting thing is while all this was going
on, and I found this to be true current day, you know, when the, when
a family is going through something like this, there are always those.
And I'm a crier, so I used to apologize for that, but I don't anymore.
, there are people in the church that were so very kind.
And they truly were the handsome feet of Christ.
You know, there, it was a very comforting thing, yet in my teenager mind, I felt
like a charity case, you know, but there were many instances, even with, as far as
my mother was working, we wouldn't have had a Christmas tree if some kind couple
from the church hadn't given it to us.
We wouldn't have had certain meals if someone hadn't dropped off a turkey,
you know, so that demonstration along with, Superweek, which was the
teenagers, , camp, , at Hargrave Military Academy, someone paid for me to go.
That was when I initially gave my life to the Lord.
That would have never happened had someone not done that.
So that was my first brush with this is what it feels like in those
few moments to really be free.
And I definitely felt that.
I remember what I was wearing.
I remember where I was standing and I remember how I felt when I walked down.
So it was very powerful, but, but, you know, With Not having a bookend, so to
speak, of someone to partner up with and say, here's what it looks like to continue
to walk, which wasn't necessarily there.
It became, okay, now what do I do?
I just listen to these sermons, but I don't understand what's
happening and all those things.
And why do bad things keep happening?
This doesn't make sense.
If he's as good as they say he is, what's going on here?
So, that level of defiance started, started kicking in
pretty, pretty full speed ahead.
anyway, my, my grandmother, who was very instrumental in my life, , wrote
me letters on a regular basis and, and she, in her own, even though it was
very legalistic in her approach and the Calvinist mindset, in her best of her
heart, she just wanted me to know Jesus.
So, I know that that was her objective, but there were, there were tones
of a punishing God for the things that I was doing that started to
read through in her letters and in the way she would talk to me.
And that would only kick this level of defiance in me.
Up one more notch because then it became, well, how dare you tell me,
you know, it's just that, that type of thing goes on with a lot of folks.
I know, I know I'm not alone, but it just kind of feeds on itself.
So with all of that, , one of the largest points of contention once I moved to
Atlanta They knew that I was living a homosexual lifestyle and it was in their
mind that they could in some way change me from what was going on and reorder
all of that and everything would be fine.
But what we know is the Lord is the only one that can do that
and he has done that in my life.
Andrea: Mm hmm.
Jesse: But at that time, again, there was this identity crisis.
You know, people around saying, here's how you should be instead of saying,
here's how God designed you to be.
Let's think about what is feeding your mind around alcohol,
drugs, homosexual behaviors.
, sexual promiscuity.
Let's think about what's feeding all of that, because it's the lack
of identity in Jesus that we know.
that doesn't make me a victim, it just makes me someone who, that
was my experience with people around me not necessarily knowing
how to talk about those things.
Andrea: Right.
Jesse: Current day, I think that there is, there is more openness
to speaking about those things.
And you can literally walk people through scripture and say, honey, here, here's
where this might've gotten off track.
Andrea: Mm hmm.
Jesse: and you may have thought just from this, this, and this, that,
that that's what this means, but, but here's who you are seated in Christ.
So, anyway, the level of defiance grew, , one, one of the regrets that I have is
that when my grandmother passed away, , we were not on the best of terms, , but now
I talk to her, you know, and, and, and I know that she's with our, our heavenly
father and, and I'm able to say things like, I know you did your best, but
look now, you know, at this beautiful, beautiful thing that we can share.
You're there.
I'm here.
I'll see you someday.
And we'll all rejoice over it.
So, , but those, those years in Atlanta were very formative.
, I learned how to control, I say control, but I learned how to manage at that
point the drinking and the drugs.
, and became like the weekend warrior and would do my best with all of that.
But then, , the idol of money set in because my job started going very well.
And there was an opportunity to move up and on.
And so I left there and went to South Florida.
And just in case any of the listers aren't aware, South Florida in the
90s, , was a place that, , everything that you see in every movie is true.
Andrea: hmm.
Miami Vice.
Jesse: I'm pretty sure I experienced most of it.
So, so, . The thing is, I had money, I had access, I had all of those things,
but I would find myself over and over and over again, just drawn at some point to
my knees saying, God, if you are there, if you are there, just help me, just
help me not do this, help me not do that.
Andrea: So, even while you were in the midst of all the craziness, you
were asking God to help you manage it.
Jesse: Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Those, those, , what, what, , , I've heard people call them foxhole prayers.
They were so real for me, , over and over again.
So, , there were many years of that.
And I, when I look back and, and kind of look at those years from,
from the early 90s until, , 2006.
That, that span of time became, , just managing through the next, , point of
surrender in saying, okay, I'm, I'm, I'm just not going to drink this week.
Okay.
I'm not going to do.
I'm not going to do cocaine for a month.
I need to save more money.
I've just blown through everything in my savings, my stock
options, the whole nine yards.
I'm selling stock in order to feed my family.
This has got to stop.
I need some help.
Oh, I'll check into this detox and that'll help for this weekend.
I moved all over the country and, and, , went through that type
cycle over and over and over again.
And, , the final move , came to Fernandina Beach from my hometown.
, I kind of looked around and, and I said, Hey mom, how about this?
We'll go to Florida and you won't have to put up with dads putting you through.
Because they at that time had, had divorced.
Or they had separated, and my sister was struggling with drugs and alcohol as well.
And so being the great savior that I am in everyone's life,
I was like, Mom, just retire.
You can come retire to Florida.
You won't have to work so hard.
So she, she tells that the Lord was very clear with her and
said, that is what you are to do.
And she made the move.
That was pretty much the beginning of the end of, , all of my
craziness with all of that.
, we arrived in Fernandina in 2004, and I moved here with, , a job that
came with all the bells and whistles and all the money of, or all the
promise of more and more money.
And I think I was probably, in position maybe a month when I'd already identified
who was doing what, where I could get what, and I was off to the races again.
At the same time, , my sister was struggling with an opioid addiction.
She was, , she was one of the, one of the folks that experienced Oxycontin
when it was being prescribed at a level of, , I remember seeing a, a jar from the
actual, , production line of Oxycontin with her prescription tabbed over it.
And it was, it was literally a huge,
Andrea: Mm hmm.
Jesse: It was just absolute insanity.
She had had, , gastric bypass surgery and to manage pain, they had prescribed that.
And as a result, continued on, , with that battle.
So, , we were both, , definitely in the throes of, of
alcoholism and drug addiction.
, she was married, , had a, , child and my mom was just, you know, Working
herself to death to keep my dad afloat even though she was separated from him
and then keep my sister's family afloat financially and so this was a way to
Quote rescue her from all of that.
So Anyway, once once we got here, I I started having problems early on My
sister had big problems going on and and because Hannah Needed to help her
daughter , mom went back home, , to Roanoke to be with her for a little
bit and help out and left me alone.
And that, , took me to a, a new level in my, , drugging at that point and drinking.
So, , I ended up injuring my back pretty severely and, , I was
here, , And she was there and I didn't know very many people here.
So I was literally paying employees to help me out, , get me to doctor's
appointments and that kind of thing.
So I patched myself up a little bit, but.
It was not enough to hang on to the job.
So, , I eventually lost the job.
, the partners that brought me here were very kind and gracious
and, , said basically, Andrew, we, we can't do this and neither
can you, you've got to get help.
So my version of help was I'll go to AA a little bit, I'll put a patch
on it, but I've got to get myself another job because I have all
these responsibilities, you know.
So I left Fernandina and I went to Tampa, Florida, , to work as an operating partner
for, , a company there and When I did that, , I didn't have a place to live.
I think I had maybe 300 that I had saved.
So I was living in my car and in hotel rooms and telling myself, this is,
this is in my, my thinking, telling myself that I could get on my feet.
And then get an apartment, get things going, that kind of thing.
I actually had family in Tampa who, , I called and they had a conversation
with my mom and mom kind of told them where I was and in my disease.
And, , I asked if I could stay with them and they, I'm so grateful to
this day that they said no, because I probably would have, you know, gone.
No telling what I would have done to them, you know, financially or whatever.
So, so anyway, I, I finally did find a place to stay through a friend
and then everything seemed okay.
, but, , fast forward a couple, three months into the job.
I identified an employee that looked like he did the things that I enjoy.
And I approached him and, and he said, yeah, he said, , I can take care of you.
And so I was off to the races again with cocaine.
, he, he came to me one day and he said, look, , I can't keep
up with what you're doing.
So I'm going to introduce you to my guy.
So, so he introduces me to his guy and his guy is.
And,, I end up running cocaine from, , Tampa to Clearwater and Clearwater
to Tampa because I'm working in Tampa and living in Clearwater and keeping
everything okay as far as that's concerned, meaning I'm not owing thousands
and thousands of dollars at the end of the week because I'm able to do that.
I'm able to run it back and forth and, , , eventually that ran out.
, Eventually, your drug, no matter what it is, will always out you.
It's been my experience.
So, , I don't know why it was this particular weekend other than the Lord
was just lining up what needed to happen.
You know, back when I was knit in my mother's womb, he, he, he just knew
this weekend, which is so beautiful.
Andrea: hmm.
Mm
Jesse: But, , I started drinking and, and at this point I was
smoking cocaine or smoking crack.
, white people say they smoke cocaine.
They dress it up.
I was smoking crack.
Plain and simple.
So, , anyway,, this was on a Thursday.
And fast forward to Tuesday, I called some people here in Fernandina
and I said, I don't know why I haven't died yet, but I'm not dead.
And if I don't get help.
I don't guess I'm gonna die, but this is awful.
I need help.
So they, , were able to find a treatment center, line everything up, called me
back, said, Hey, can you get to Ocala?
We'll come and get you there.
I said, yes.
, there was a man from a treatment center.
I don't know what the name of the treatment center is to this day, but he
stayed on the phone with me for probably.
I've got to say, at least two hours,
Andrea: Mm.
Jesse: just talking to me, just talking to me about hanging in there
and just getting there and they were going to help and all these things.
And so fast forward, I get to Ocala to meet the friends from here who
are helping me and they get a call and they look at me in the backseat.
I'm still drinking, still smoking crack.
And they say, Andrea, you're not going to that treatment center.
I'm like, what?
You've lost your job and you don't have insurance and we have no idea
what we're going to do with you.
So I was like, Oh, great.
You know, that type of attitude.
And I was like, at that point I was like, you know what?
I just don't care anymore, whatever, whatever.
And I remember walking around the backside of this tree.
They had stopped at a convenience store.
And then I was like, You know, I really do want help, so I don't know
how this is going to work out, but I really don't want to do this anymore.
And I think that that was a form of a prayer, , because I got back in
the car and they were like, we've got a spot for you to go, but Andrea,
it's not going to be anything like what you've ever been through.
So I was like, okay, I'm fine.
That's good.
I was all happy and, , relieved at the same time.
So.
We pulled into Gateway down on Stockton Street in Jacksonville, and I threw
my crack pipe across the road, and they walked me inside, and the door
buzzed, and, , a very sweet woman at the nurse's station said, Sit down.
Let's talk.
So, , everyone was very kind.
, I was, , the, the detox situation around that was pretty intense because the
cocaine that I was smoking, the crack that I was smoking was laced with heroin.
Andrea: Mm
Jesse: So I had alcohol, heroin, cocaine, benzos, all these things, but the heroin
took a little Longer to detox from
Andrea: mm
Jesse: and , so I was in the detox center for 12 days I found out later
that all of those those last few days weren't necessary medically They were
more necessary for a bed to open up
Andrea: mm
Jesse: next door.
So for treatment, so a woman by the name of Miss Virginia Thomas came
and sat on the end of my bed while I was in detox and And talk to me
about the Lord and talk to me about the program of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Andrea: mm
Jesse: And, , she, she would always say to me, baby, there's the big
book and there's the big, big book.
So those are the two things you need.
That's so, so, , I got over into treatment and, , The first class that I went to
was, , one that on a Tuesday that she, , was in charge of and there were all
these people waiting to speak to her.
And she said, Hey, Hey, Hey, and called me over.
And she said, come here.
And she looked at me and she said, you're going to make it.
And I saw God in her eyes.
So from that moment forward, I had that much belief that I was going
to make it, and I knew that God had said that to me through her.
I knew that.
I just knew that.
So, that made everything else around me a little less crazy,
but it was a crazy experience.
I was in, I was in a room with two other women, and, I snored at that
time and I woke up the first night with a woman on top of me like
shaking me going, you're snoring.
You gotta stop.
I'm like, Oh my gosh, this woman's going to kill me.
So just crazy living, but it was exactly what I needed.
, I found, , everyone was so vital to my walk.
, the hands and feet of Christ that were within that facility.
They were just amazing, , just amazing when I think about that.
The Lord appointed everyone at that time, like it says in
Esther, for such a time as this.
It was just, it was just then.
, the man that, the UPS driver that had killed a child while drinking on the job,
, made sure that I had socks because I didn't have any socks, I just had sandals,
and , he made sure I had a jacket.
, just very kind.
He helped me take notes because my brain was just not It just
had not reconnected to the point where I could focus on anything.
So, , I had, , some of the most incredible experiences there and
the Lord knew exactly what I needed.
And, , by his grace, , I, this, this year we'll celebrate 18
years without a drink or a drug.
, and, , so that's a complete gift.
, Came out of, , treatment and my sister and my niece and my mother picked me
up and I didn't know that my sister and niece had moved here to Fernandina.
I was so excited.
, she was, , on the right track trying to be sober.
We thought, and, , we found out later that was not the case.
She actually came here with a lot of drugs.
, but, but we did our best.
My mom laid the law down.
, and said the condition of being in this household is that you go to two
meetings a day and, , no drinking, no drugging, and if you do, you're out.
And that
Andrea: mo your mother said this
Jesse: my mother said this, and that, that,
Andrea: she was familiar with recovery then, huh?
Jesse: she, she was absolutely, she had, , when I had attempted to get sober, this
is funny, , when I attempted to get sober, , we went to an AA meeting and she went
with me and someone in the room said to my mother, why don't you come back here?
And they were talking about the Al Anon and I was like, wait, where's she going?
And they were like, no, you stay here.
She's gonna go back there.
So, so she got connected with one of those Al Anon mamas that you know, or have black
belts and and she she knew exactly what to say So and it was exactly what we needed
and and and we did for for a long while , I, I stayed sober, , my, my sister really
struggled and was in and out of treatment in and out of situations that became
pretty perilous, but, , fast forward, I, I started putting things together.
And, most importantly, I started exhausting every other road but Jesus.
So I explored Buddhism.
I explored some kind of yoga breathing thing.
I explored, , Ram Dass and all this open mind concept stuff.
And in the meantime, I had Miss Virginia with the big, big book.
Talking to me, talking scripture to me all along, and which I
understand now is just seed planting.
She, you know, the scriptures talk about, I am, I am no quoter of scripture.
I'm just learning the Bible over the last few years, , and
still, still just exploring.
, but there's, there's scripture in the Bible that talks about some
people plant the seed, some people water it, you know, and it goes on.
Well, well, she cast seed over and over and over again.
I believe she, she did that knowing that's what she was doing and
for so many did that completely.
of course, wanting us to be a part of the kingdom, but at the same time,
knowing that it was more important for her to stand true to the Lord
working through her to plant seed and cast seed, , than anything that was
more important than anything else.
So that's, that's the role model I had, , which I'm so grateful for at the time.
Again, at the time I didn't recognize it, but now I know so
that when I run across people.
It used to be that I wanted to be able to plant the seed, water it, watch it,
grow it, put grow lights on it, you know, put some type of, , , fertilizer
on it, keep it going, keep it growing, keep it going, and then say, Oh,
look, but, but now I know it's just, you know, I, I just plant the seed.
I just, I just plant the seed, that's all.
So that demonstration was intense, but I was exhausting all these other avenues.
And, , so I'll fast forward to, , , 2016.
, I, , I graduated from college in 2013.
, All of the.
Realizations around what I could and couldn't do in my mind, , kind
of led to, Hey, I've never been to college, so I think I'll go to college.
It's a great place for me for three and a half years.
I got two degrees, , and, , really enjoyed being in school.
, graduated in 2013 and then, , went to work for an entrepreneur now down
in Jacksonville and enjoyed, , some tremendous success with that, with
that family, but, , things were really rocky with my sister and, , She
and, , my niece and my mother.
And myself were all living, , in the same place.
And I was, , doing the best that I could.
, to contribute to the household and, , keep things together.
, but my sister was in and out and in and out, you know, she would leave for periods
of time and then she would come back.
So it was becoming apparent that that was going to continue to be a tremendous
amount of upset around all of that and, , and dealing with her daughter.
So my focus became damage control and still.
, having people in my life saying, Hey Andrea, you know, the ultimate
solution is here in the Lord.
, why don't you just, you know, give this a try and, and cast
your burden, so to speak.
And I'm like, nah, I'm good over here.
You know, I'm not good with that guy right now.
You know, I don't understand what's going on.
And, and this God, this God thing, I just don't know about.
So, I was in a state of rebellion, and, , so, fast forward, , , she was
at a point where, , once again, she was coming and visiting with us on the
weekends, and she came on this particular weekend and, and spent it with us,
and, , , with her daughter and, , that was on, mom took her home on Sunday.
And then on Tuesday night, , on Tuesday night, we were eating dinner, me, my
mom and Hannah, my sister's daughter, and there was a knock on the door and
I went and answered the door and there were two, , Jacksonville Sheriff's
Office detectives, homicide detectives.
And they said, , they were doing death notification and they basically said,
, we're here to let you know that, , Mary Tenette Sloan, , is the victim of a
self inflicted gunshot to the head.
And we're ruling this as a suicide unless something comes back differently.
So in the doorway with those two detectives standing there and my mother
and my niece literally falling to their knees in that moment, it was not.
Oh God help me, it was, I don't ever want anything to do with this God
ever again, hearing this behind me, listening to what I just listened to.
I don't want anything to do with this guy.
So we talked through with them what was going on.
I made a couple of phone calls just to get some help with my mom and my niece.
, and dear friends of the family came over to, to be with them while I, I
just needed a break from all of it.
Plus I'd been sick the few days prior.
I later found out I'd had a heart attack on Saturday night and didn't know it.
It was very strange.
Andrea: Wow.
Jesse: But yeah, it's crazy.
So anyway, I went up to my place And I was saying to this god.
I was like, you know what I cannot imagine that Anything that i've
ever heard about your love is true.
I don't ever I was screaming I don't ever want anything to do with you again.
I don't want anybody to ever say anything to me about you again We're done.
We are done.
I'm grabbing things that I need And I go down the steps, I lived in a little
studio apartment behind my, the house that mom and Hannah and my sister lived
in and, , I came down the stairs and went through the garage and came out,
was getting ready to head out the door and the friend of the family that had
come over stopped me and he put his hands on my shoulders, I'll never forget it.
He said, Andrea, you're going to want to turn away from God, you're
going to want to run from him.
Don't do it.
And in that moment.
I saw God in his eyes.
I literally saw God in his eyes and I could feel, what I know today to
be the Holy Spirit, but I could feel this ribbon of peace is the only way
that I can describe that momentarily.
Enough to know that I wasn't completely closed off.
At that point, that my heart had not completely hardened.
Thank you, Lord.
I am so grateful that in that moment that a messenger came and did that because so
many people, you know, I hear people that have what would be perceived as a hardened
heart, and it is literally heartbreaking.
You know, so the next several years were a walking back to who is this God that
everyone seems to put so much reliance in.
Who is he to me?
So, , I, I'd started listening to some different pastors on YouTube, different
podcasts, and open to the idea of God, but I was still very much trapped in
this God of religion, so to speak.
So I, , I had not had an up close and personal experience that
I could say was tangible yet.
But, , in the way, in his kind way, we were talking about this earlier today
with some friends, in his kind way of stripping away the things that, that
keep us, From being totally reliant on him, things were being stripped away.
The job was dying down.
It was obviously going to be a change.
My niece graduated from, from high school and was going to be going to
college and mom was pretty settled.
We'd had a little bit of time between the death of my sister and the, the
daily, all of that was lessening.
, so, but.
At the same time, still did not have, I didn't have clarity and I
didn't have a full reliance on God.
So then the things that when you strip away the preoccupation with the job and
money and doing things for other people and, and staying in a whole mode of people
pleasing to those around you because you don't want anybody to hurt that
when that starts to get stripped away.
Then you're looking around saying, I was looking around saying,
well, I don't know what to do now.
I don't know what's next.
I don't, I don't have any clue.
So that lead, that led me down the road of, well, , nothing's really sparking,
nothing's really coming to the surface that I should be doing right now.
, so that must mean that I'm not doing something right.
I'm probably not worth much.
I'm probably pretty worthless.
Maybe my sister had, maybe she had the, the answer, maybe
she knew something I don't.
So those types of thoughts had started to creep in and, , I really
wasn't sure what to do with them.
I knew not to talk to people about them.
Because if I did that, it would mean I would have to acknowledge
that I'm not being as strong as everyone thinks I'm being.
Andrea: Mm.
Jesse: So anyway, back to listening to different pastors and such, I'm
listening to something on my way to work.
And I remember hearing, don't you give up?
Don't you ever give up?
And I was like, you know what, God, I want to give up.
I want to give up right now.
I want to give up.
I'm like beating on the steering wheel.
I'm like, if you're real, you've got to make yourself clear to me right now.
I'm done with this.
I'm so over it.
And I look up and there is a billboard, literally a billboard
that says the choice is clear.
And right behind it is in despair, Jesus is the answer.
So it was one billboard, then the next billboard.
And I pulled the car over on 95 and just started just weeping.
And I had an experience with the Lord.
, The, there was a feeling in the car and a light in the car that I couldn't on my
best day describe, but he became real, he became, he became, I believe that that's,
that's when I truly, truly, truly removed all question around whether or not he,
Andrea: Mm.
Jesse: I don't know how long I was in the car on the side of the road.
I do know that I went around.
And these are the things that happen in my life that I just don't even,
sometimes I don't even think I have the thoughts, it just happens.
I went around and went back.
I took a picture of both the billboards so I would have them to remember.
I am here to tell you they took those billboards down
within days of me seeing them.
Andrea: Wow.
Jesse: But I have the pictures and, and, and for a long while, that was
the beginning of my remembrances.
That was the beginning of me saying, Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, he is real.
And here's how I know he's real because he spoke to me on the side of
the road and here's what he gave me.
He gave me two billboards.
And then he met me in the car.
So I had to do that.
Now I understand to battle the enemy in my mind, or not in my mind,
but in the exterior of trying to seep into the thoughts in my mind.
And so that became the start of here's what he's doing and here's what he's done.
So I'd have these tangible things that I knew were coming from him.
At the same time.
I'm reading the Bible.
I'm listening to pastors.
, I'm listening to some of the greats out there and it's starting to get in.
I'm spending time alone with him in a secret place, probably for close to
three years, just worshipping, praising, listening to sermons, listening to
worship sessions that go for hours.
two and three hours.
People like Stephanie Gretzinger, Jesus Image, and these folks that just,
they just, they arrive on the stage and they just pour their entire souls
out to the Lord, and just adoration and praise and all those things.
And so I'm, I'm experiencing that alone.
And I'm realizing that there is something, there are a lot of things missing.
, there's also scripture that talks about how we don't do this alone.
We need the body.
And I kept saying, Lord, you know, I've been around your people in church
and I don't want to go to church.
The Lord was like, you gotta go, you gotta go to church.
But I don't want to go to, but you gotta go to church.
So I started exploring that and, , visited many good churches.
, and, and had great experiences.
There was just, there was this connection that was missing and what I didn't know
is that the Lord was doing things just like He always is with other people.
And so, , fast forward, , I was, , I was in TJ Maxx and I walked past a t shirt
that was for a team of a good friend of mine and I hadn't seen him in a really
long time, in years as a matter of fact.
Since my sister had passed away, and we all used to be friends, and the Lord
said, pick that t shirt up for your, I don't know if I should mention his name,
but pick that t shirt up for your friend.
And I'm like, why?
I don't ever see him.
That's ridiculous.
So I know now I'll battle it the whole way to the cash register, but
I know now I don't battle it anymore.
I just pick it up and I say, okay, I've got it.
Here we go.
Well, I guess I'll, I guess I'll see my friend at some point, Lord, you know, and
so, , I did in fact see him and it turned out that, , there were some things going
on and some real challenges in life were, were, were presented to him and his wife.
So I had this, a beautiful experience and walking through.
What they were walking through with them.
They had become a part of a church, been baptized, walking with the Lord.
Two people that I thought would never walk with the Lord.
So the Lord was preparing them so that he could join us back together in Him.
And we could have the friendship, the beautiful friendship that we experience
now that is completely centered in Jesus.
I mean, just completely centered in that.
Andrea: Mm.
Jesse: So he's always, always doing exceedingly more than
we could ever think or ask.
And that's just the unfolding that goes on in my life over and over again.
Well, that got, got me into, okay, I'll, I'll go to church and, and experience
this and see what this is like.
It's turned out to be just a beautiful experience.
It's turned out to be just the message, , over and over again, every
single Sunday that, that I need.
It also turns out in God's divine design that when I was.
in my hometown, working the job I was working, that that company was
supplying the church where this pastor that I currently, , follow
at 1122 was the youth pastor.
So we were
Andrea: ha, ha.
Jesse: we were connected back in the 2000, 2002, 2003 circa.
, in that way, He was a youth pastor there.
Now he's the pastor of 1122 in Jacksonville.
So, , it's just, it's amazing that that type of story ribbons through, , my
life story and my walk with the Lord.
So here, here's another one that involves you, Jesse.
So you, , you've given me more than one white chip, that surrender
chip, , , back between 2004 and 2006.
And, , I, I remember the people who are kind and now I know it's, you know,
it's just, you recognize the Lord in people's eyes and you see and feel it,
even though you don't know to acknowledge it, you don't know necessarily what
it is, but once you know what it is.
And there's no, there's no denying it, you know.
So that's what I see it as now, but anyway, only a loving, kind God would
put Jesse Duke in Andrea Sinclair's path in the most vulnerable time in her life.
And fast forward, have her become a part of, , the local board for Habitat
for Humanity and have her sitting and reading the original documents.
, from that organization and hearing about a guy named Jesse Duke who would
drive around and say no more Shaqs and Fernandina and, and go and figure out
what they were doing in Americus, Georgia.
I remember reading that and just weeping, and I was like, Lord.
You, you mean, you mean this guy, I, I thought that guy was a painter, you know,
here he is, like it literally brought that organization to Fernandina, an
organization that, , I had volunteered for since the early nineties, but
always had a heart towards it because my grandmother kept the books for Charles
Moore, the man that ran the warehouse where Billy and, , Jimmy Carter stored
their peanuts in Americus, Georgia.
Andrea: Ha,
Jesse: And my grandfather was Jimmy's pastor, and they would all
talk about, don't do it, Jimmy, and you know, all those things.
So, so only a loving God weaves all that together.
You know, it's just, it's, he, we, we have no idea what he's doing, when he's
doing it, but then we, we're like, oh wow, Lord, I, I see what you did there.
I see what you did there, you know?
So, , current day, it's just, all of that continues to weave through my daily
life, when I'm able to, , completely.
Completely surrender, whatever it is that's going on,
, , whatever challenge it, it might be, which in my mind.
Life, , one of the most common, , threads has been the whole people
pleasing, , that lives so strong in areas that I could never imagine.
You know, the obvious areas are always there, and I ask the Lord to relieve
me, and, and, and I feel like, okay, I've got some relief, I'm not trying to
people please in this area any longer.
And then.
Some little subtle thing happens.
I'm like, oh wow, it's still there.
I'm like, Lord, there's more of this here.
And he's like, yes, that's.
Why you need me.
Remember?
Remember, I am the vine, right?
You're the branch.
Okay.
Right, right, right, right, right.
Okay.
So, it's just, It is a beautiful thing to be walking with the Lord.
I, if someone had told me I would think or feel or desire the presence of God the way
that I do, , even five years ago, I would have probably said, eh, no, not like that.
Not like it's all I want to do.
No, no, I'm not going down those roads.
No, no, no, no, no.
That's kind of crazy.
Andrea: Fanatic.
You don't want to
Jesse: Yeah, you don't be a fanatic, you don't want to be a Jesus freak now.
But anyway, I literally went to 1122 with my friend because his wife, , was,
, in a treatment facility and, I, I wanted to go for him to keep him company
and, and, and comforted in those first few days when she was gone and it was
so good to be reconnected with them.
So I went thinking, Oh, I'm going with him for him, you know, that kind of thing.
And when I got there, I, first of all, I knew it was a mega church.
I, , I had a certain idea about those.
And, but when I walked in from the moment, from the very first time when I walked in
the doors and people started speaking, I know, , I've been around so many church
environments that I know fake and phony and I, and I, I hate to even say that,
Andrea: Mm hmm.
Mm
Jesse: there was this sense that everyone that was doing everything.
Literally wanted to be doing it and I sat down.
I was very skeptical I sat down and there was just a feeling in the in
the church itself Which I know is the presence of the Holy Spirit I know they
host the Holy Spirit so to speak not saying that other churches don't but
they say at 1122 that it's a movement for all people, all people, to deepen
their relationship with Jesus Christ.
they literally mean that.
Alcoholic, drug addict, drinking, not drinking, , living
in an alternative lifestyle.
It does not matter where you are, they want you there, not in a, oh,
let's change your mind type of way.
It's let's change your heart.
It And the way we're going to do that is.
That, Pastor Joby Martin says all the time, he didn't write
the mail, he just delivers it.
And that, and he, he means, he means the Bible.
and everything's been centered around Scripture.
It's not about, let's give you a fluffy talk and, and get you out of here.
If, if that's what people are drawn to and that gets them to
know the Lord, that's great.
But he is very much centered in What does the truth say in the Bible?
And I like that approach.
I think most alcoholics love that approach.
Because if you give fogginess around things, we're going to figure out, we're
going to figure out a different way.
We're,
Andrea: A loophole?
Jesse: We're going to figure out a loophole.
We're going to figure out the trap door.
And the next thing you know, we're going to be like, do Galatians
really say, like, we'll be like Eve.
You know, or it would be like the, the snake in the garden
saying, did, did the Lord really say you couldn't eat that apple?
You know, we will be those people.
So I think that his directness in the approach with scripture, , is
very much what draws But most importantly, having them know that.
They can count on it being the word of God and not the word of Joby Martin.
Andrea: Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Jesse: that's the biggest thing.
Not saying that he is unique or that is unique.
There are plenty of churches that do the same.
It's just they are people of action and you know, how we are, you know, we want
to, we want to be a part of the community.
And a lot of times.
For whatever reason, we're denied those opportunities, , as recovered,
you know, alcoholics and addicts.
, but through an organization and a body of Christ that is all about.
The prison ministry, the, people in 12 step programs, you know, the, I remember
I was on, , we were, , we were walking into the building one Sunday and I was
like, yeah, I bet they, I bet they don't take on, Mental illness and suicide,
and I've pulled up the app and looked, there's a whole, they have a whole
team dedicated to that, , from someone who lost a family member, I think it
was her daughter to suicide and, and came to the church and said, you know,
why, why aren't we talking about this?
Why aren't we, why don't we addressing this?
They have, , foster programs for, and People who want to be foster
parents and, , mission trips, both, , locally and internationally.
They, they literally have things going for everyone.
, big part of the Tim Tebow Foundation and what he does and, , huge into
being a resource for human trafficking.
So you, you feel as though you're a part of.
Something that is making a difference every single day, but at the same
time, you receive so much more when you're fed the word of God
directly from the way it's written.
And, and, and he's funny too.
He's, his delivery is, is, is unique and humorous.
Quite often he calls it like it is.
Guest pastors are always really good too.
, so it's just, it's a great place for someone who feels as though they
just won't like going to church.
You get involved in, and it's just a really cool thing.
We've got a discipleship group that meets locally on Wednesday nights and,
, We just covered the sermon from the week before, and that's become just a
complete, beautiful group to be a part of.
We support each other in prayer.
, we stay in touch through the week.
, we are excited when we see each other, when we, when somebody's
been gone traveling for work or whatever, and we see each other again.
It's like, it's like family, you know,
Andrea: Yeah, you mentioned back when you were a teenager, wanted to
start this Christian life and gave your life to the Lord, but there
was, really no discipleship involved.
And I think.
that's really the missing ingredient, in all of this is, is discipleship.
I mean, we, for so long, the church has kind of, well, I, I use this
in a very broad sense and I just hope people don't take it the wrong
way, but, you know, this, , type of evangelism where, you just got to get
somebody to say the sinner's prayer and, and assume that God's going to.
You know, just magically transform them, but it says in Romans 12 too that we
have to be, transformed by the renewing of our minds and that takes discipleship
and, and that is, that was the missing ingredient in my life when I was 16 or
17 years old, I decided to kind of turn away from church and turn away from
the Lord because I just assumed that.
magically the Lord was supposed to just start doing stuff in my life
and I didn't have anybody saying, well, you got to do your part.
, well, we, we have an ongoing revival in this country right now.
Most people are not aware of it.
And that revival, I believe is, is that more and more.
believers are getting involved in discipleship groups like
you talk about or discipleship programs in one form or another.
And that is a huge thing.
And
I have heard other recovering folks going to 1122 and talking very highly about it.
And I think it's because like you said, it's, it's truth.
People are attracted to truth.
God draws them through the truth and not through fluff.
Jesse: exactly.
There's, there's plenty of fluff out there.
And, , it's just, it's an amazing experience.
Andrea: Yeah.
Well, listen, we're really taking advantage of God's time here, man,
because this, this is awesome.
But I wonder, , two things, one, is there anything else you
want to add about your story?
And then I want to ask you, if there's one bit of wisdom that you've gained over the
years that is crucial that you would like to, to share with the listeners today.
Jesse: Gotcha.
I don't think that there's, , anything that I want to add.
, we'll let the Holy Spirit do with all of that what he will today and, and ongoing.
, if there's one bit of advice that I can say has been critical for me that I
would, that I would recommend, that is.
Quite often we think we need fancy prayers in, , certain way or a certain environment
to talk to the Lord or talk to God.
and that I've found is just not true.
, he appreciates being able to have us recognize that he's always there, that
whether we are crying out or whether we were just saying, Hey, are you real?
That's all that you need to make a start and I believe that in my experience
of knowing that he's real now, prior to that, being able to just ask those
simple questions, as I look back, he was showing me whether it was the kindness
of someone approaching me, whether it was the kindness of a friend, whether it was.
, a scripture that I would see three times in one day.
He was talking to me.
You don't see those things until you're at that point where you've established.
a relationship with him of some sort, and you know he's real.
Andrea: mm,
Jesse: you get all that realization.
So you have to be comfortable in the mystery, but it all comes
with just, just talk to him.
Hey, are you real?
Are you there?
Do you love me?
Do you care about me?
Whatever that is, all the questions that we have early on, very important.
Don't give up.
Yeah.
It's all about relationship.
You can't have a relationship with anybody unless you have a conversation.
I mean, even if it's just one sided.
In the beginning.
You know, if it seems to be one sided, it's only because
we have to learn how to hear.
You have to grow ears to hear so to speak.
And that takes time.
That's that's great advice.
Thank you.
Jesse: Yes.
Andrea: Well.
anything you want to add, go right ahead.
Otherwise, would you pray for our listeners today?
Jesse: Absolutely.
Heavenly Father, thank you for all your grace and mercy.
I want to thank you for every listener that ever hears any of
this, a portion of it or all of it.
You are absolutely, positively the great orchestrator of everything that we do.
I want to thank you for Jesse and his willingness to have A program like
this where we can talk about what we've been through in order to arrive
at the final knowing in our hearts, through and through, beyond the shadow
of the doubt, that you are our Savior and that you are the King of Kings.
I just pray that.
Anyone who's listening that needs to deepen that relationship with you or begin
that relationship with you, that you make yourself known to them in such a tangible
way that there is no denying in the same way that you've done for so many of us.
Fall drip by drip on their heart, Lord.
We thank you for everything you've done.
We thank you for the things you're doing, and we thank you
for the things you will do.
We pray all of this in the almighty name of Jesus.
Amen.
Andrea: Amen.
We hope you've been blessed by today's story.
if you've heard something that you think could help someone you know, please share
it using the link in the show notes.
Also, if you will give Faith and Purpose a positive review on your podcast platform,
you could help more people find it.
You will probably never know how that small effort can make a big
difference in someone's life, but our Heavenly Father knows.
Speaking of sharing, if you know a Jesus follower with a story to tell, please send
them a link to Faith and Purpose Podcast.
It may encourage them to tell their story.
That person may even be you.
Our only criteria is that Jesus be glorified.
If Jesus has changed your life, you have a story to tell.
you may be the only one who can reach someone else through
telling your experience.
So don't be intimidated.
A story is just that, a true account of your own experience, and no one
can disagree with your experience.
When we tell what Jesus has done in our lives, we are being obedient to his
command to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
It's not about theology, and it's not about how interesting or special you are.
It's all about Jesus.
So when you're ready to tell how Jesus has impacted your life, you can let Jesse
know at his ministry website, jesseduke.
net.
There you can download guidelines that will make it easy to
prepare to tell your story.
Thank you for listening today and Shalom.