Vanessa (00:00.916) Welcome back to The Shrinkdown. Ladies, how are we doing today? Good. I'm good. Working. I'm in the office today. Background change. The husband's out of town, so I feel like a chicken with my head cut off. OK. So recently, we had an episode, and we talked about the challenges that boys and young men are facing today. So we thought it made sense to spend a little time looking at the other side. What are girls experiencing today? So girls, teens, young adults. Lauren (00:04.206) Good. How are you? Good. Teri (00:04.518) Good. Wilhelmina (00:04.648) Good. Lauren (00:09.558) Mm-hmm. Teri (00:09.586) You Vanessa (00:30.474) and talking more about what they're experiencing, and then also what does the research say about supporting them in today's kind of age and what they're experiencing. But before we get into today's topic, let's do our four minute phase. Anybody want to start today? Wilhelmina (00:45.864) I'll start us off. So I actually can't believe that I haven't talked about this show before. I had to actually go back and check because I love it. So this is a show called Maxton Hall. It's on Amazon Prime. I came across it, I don't know, within the last year and a half. And it just showed up. It was like, hey, based on what you have watched, you might like this show. So I started it and it's in German. So I sort of was like, cause I actually had to switch it cause I first was like, why are their lips not matching up? Cause it was, they were, it was dubbed. And I was like, it's because it's a German show and it was in German. So I switched it cause I like to actually listen to the actors speak their native language and then just read the subtitles. So. Lauren (01:26.214) yeah. Wilhelmina (01:41.425) I fell in love with the show. was only eight episodes. It's fairly short. And then it clearly had like a, there's going to be more. And then just recently within the last two weeks from when we recorded this, the next season dropped. So it's based on a book series and it's a trilogy. So it's, it's maxed in hall and then it's save me is the first book save you is the stuff. second book and then Save Us is the third book. It is like set in a prep school in England in this like very like castle like school. And it has a very, very wealthy man, very hot man. His name is James Beaufort. And then a poor, I mean, it's very like old school poor girl who's like they're on a charity scholarship. Lauren (02:32.622) and Wilhelmina (02:39.464) And her name is Ruby and Ruby comes across this like scandal going on that involves James's sister, which then puts them together. And James is trying to buy her off basically to not say anything, which she wasn't gonna say anything anyway, but then they become enemies. And then of course, enemies into something else. The show is actually so good with acting, which even rank like ramps up this season with some of the drama going on. I think you think of it as sort of like a light and fluffy show, but actually this season it's there's like nothing light and fluffy about it. And it actually talks on some of the stuff we're talking about with some of the like toxic masculinity and men and showing emotions and feelings and therapy. it's, it's It's got some very current themes for being such a kind of time, old school, boy, girl, enemies to lovers type of thing. But it is just really fun. The colors are fun. And I say that because they're like school uniform is like magenta and Navy. So like the boys are walking around, they're like magenta pants and like Navy blazers. And the two of them together are the chemistry is off the charts. Lauren (03:54.03) Thank Wilhelmina (04:06.02) And now there's some rumors, like after the first season, he broke up with his girlfriend and she broke up with his boyfriend and then they've been seen together and they clearly have like amazing chemistry together. So it's one of those things where you're like, are they together in real life? Are they not? Of course the fans, right. And of course you're like, or are they just trying to play it up, which I don't care. I am there for it. But it is just. Lauren (04:20.788) is imitating life or life is imitating art. Vanessa (04:22.945) you Vanessa (04:27.067) All right. Lauren (04:28.012) Yeah. Wilhelmina (04:33.456) I highly recommend it, especially if you're looking for something to watch over the holidays, you've got some extra time. It's a fast watch and very, very good. Just fun. Lauren (04:43.682) Did you say is it set in current time? Wilhelmina (04:46.682) It's set in current time. And what's confusing about it a little bit is it's set in England, but it's German. So like they speak German and then, but then they keep going into like Boston or not Boston, London, Boston. They keep going into like London and I'm like, where? So I thought it was actually set in Germany. Lauren (04:47.628) OK, OK, very fun. Cool. Lauren (04:54.424) Okay. Lauren (04:59.693) Yeah. Vanessa (05:01.067) in England. Wilhelmina (05:13.584) And then they somehow just kept going into London. I was like, when I read the description of the book, I'm like, no, it's supposed to be set in England. But I guess the books are German. So she's just a German author. Lauren (05:15.597) Yeah. Lauren (05:25.015) Okay. Vanessa (05:26.786) because it's based on Buck. Wilhelmina (05:28.614) Yes, yes, a trilogy. And the guy in it, he just got signed for another book to movie adaption. And I suspect based on his acting and based on his like amazingly good looks that this will be the start of his career. Like he will just keep going because he is a treat for the eyes. Lauren (05:56.427) Ha! Wilhelmina (05:58.185) Overall, it does get a little bit sexually explicit towards the end. And I only say that because if someone was like, I'm gonna watch with my teenager or things like that, a lot of it's okay, but there's a lot of drinking, a lot of drugs, and then it does get pretty sexually explicit at the last episode. yeah, Lauren, what about you? Lauren (06:22.69) know. So I am going, so I'm going to do a little recommendation specific for the holidays, if you will, because I know there's a lot of controversy about CHPT and artificial intelligence. That being said, I've used it in two ways recently. And I think this is well timed, which is why I'm sort of bringing it as my favorite. So one is to ask it to decorate your fill in the blank, but I used it this fall to decorate my front porch and you just take a like a bear picture of your front porch and then say like decorate my front porch for fall. I did the same thing for Christmas and it's adorable what they show. So like a really specific prompt like that I find use as somebody that I love decorating. I really love homemaking and all the aspects surrounding it. But sometimes it's like helpful to have some fresh ideas. So I really like it for that. And then the other way that we used it recently that worked out better than I could have imagined, we really struggled scheduling our family photos this fall with our photographer. We're both in a phase of life where she's got kids in sports and travel and all of those things as did I this fall and we just could not make it work. So I asked Chachi PT. to give me tools and tips for taking family photos with my specific iPhone model. And then we did like colors. I like put in the colors that the boys had picked for their like quarter zips and whatever. I even put in my dress from Loft. I like linked it and it like helped like do our whole color scheme. And then it gave me prompts for how to walk somebody through using my camera. Wilhelmina (07:51.75) Hmm. Lauren (08:14.944) And my mom took our photos last weekend when we were up at the lake together and they turned out so good. So it was just like a really fun way of using a tool that, again, I think we could probably maybe in the new year, we'll do a full episode on how, you know, Americans are getting dumber and AI and technology and how it really is not great for critical thinking skills, which I totally agree. Vanessa (08:32.194) That's a good idea. Lauren (08:39.682) But for something like this, I enjoyed it so much and for like something that would have been really stressful for me. I love documenting our family every year and family photos. That's why we do it. And we just couldn't figure out our schedules. And so we, you know, we kind of shifted lanes. And my mom, as a completely novice photographer who's never done anything like this before, like knocked it out of the park. We have great pictures and it accomplished the goal of documenting our year together, right? The age and stage the kids are at and things like that. And the prompts were super easy to follow and it like actually was successful. So, Chet Chibi Tea, if you're around this weekend and decorating your porch and want like a new fresh idea or something like that, or family photos if you haven't done them yet. So, highly recommend. Yeah. Wilhelmina (09:27.484) Well, Laura, you also had shown us that you took a picture of your like a room that you were wanting to repaint and then put in the paint color. And it literally showed that room with that paint color, which is a game changer. Lauren (09:32.512) Living room. Mm hmm. Yeah, that's happening right now, Yeah. Lauren (09:41.346) Yes. So thank you for reminding me of that because I use the Paint Place website and it wasn't nearly as good. Yes, it wasn't. That was another way in which like we had come up with a couple of colors, but to be able to put them on the palette and the chat GPT photo was way better. And you did the same thing with your room as well, Wilhelmina. And it looked amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So chat GPT for the holidays. Wilhelmina (09:49.212) Those suck. Yeah. Teri (09:50.566) Yeah. Wilhelmina (10:01.936) I did, and I was like, I love it. Yes, yes. I think you should actually, when you do like, we do the post, I think you should do one of your pictures of like, the before and then what it gave you so that people can see. Cause when you sent it to us, I was like, you actually just take a picture and then you, yeah. Vanessa (10:07.648) Hahaha. Lauren (10:11.298) Yeah, I will. yes, I can send that to you. Yes. Yeah, yeah, I will. Yeah, so fun use of it. And I think very low in the controversial controversy level of utilizing AI. So for what it's worth, I know. Vanessa (10:23.522) That's a good idea. Wilhelmina (10:28.476) Right. Yes. It's the best, best of it. Yeah. Teri (10:28.708) Yes. Pros and cons, and this is a pro. Yeah. Vanessa (10:29.302) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think the decorating thing, I mean, it makes it specific to your space because sometimes you look online. But also, a lot of times, I feel like when I didn't, wasn't on the internet all the time and there wasn't all these posts and I wasn't following all these people, it was actually much easier for me to come up with ideas and be creative. And I feel like there's just so much that I feel like I don't do anything because I'm like, I just don't know. I don't know. It's just too much. Lauren (10:38.338) Yeah! Wilhelmina (10:39.176) You're right. Wilhelmina (10:52.572) Thank much. Lauren (10:53.603) Yeah. Wilhelmina (10:56.508) Frozen, yeah. Lauren (10:56.588) Yeah, it does. kind of gives you, it really narrows it in a way that I'm like, wait, I can do that. Right? Yeah. So. Vanessa (10:59.274) Right, right, because it's just, yeah, yeah. So I do like that because yeah, sometimes I just feel so overwhelmed and hence me having a home we've been living in since 2019 and still there's walls that are bare because I can't decide. Lauren (11:10.798) It is overwhelming and some people have that brain. But like I think this is a nice tool for if you feel like I just need to make a decision here and I want a little guidance. So yeah, yeah. What about you, Terry? Teri (11:13.072) It is. Vanessa (11:21.152) Yeah, like I just, yeah, that's great. Awesome. Teri (11:25.138) Mine is I guess a gift idea or just an idea for kids. The 3D pens, the 3D printer pens. So there's 3D printers, which you know those box like things you can print. But then there's pens that you insert a little, I should have grabbed my kids, a little thin cartridge of color of ink. Yeah, filament. And my oldest, who's 10, got one. I think they're about 50 bucks, 45, 50 bucks. Wilhelmina (11:47.378) filament. Teri (11:55.37) and he loves it. So he has created all sorts of random things. And you do have to get the hang of it because it just outputs, you know, and he does it on a paper plate and then creates it. But it has been a lot of fun for him a good time killer. My eight year old his little brother really wants one now. So I think if you are looking for a cool birthday gift idea for your kids buddy or Christmas gift idea, Lauren (12:04.686) Yeah. Wilhelmina (12:06.737) love that. Teri (12:23.51) or just something that's new and sort of innovative that you think your kid will get into. My 10 year old loves art and is really into that. My eight year old, not so much, but he still really wants one. So I think it would appeal to kids whether they're into art and creative or not. So 3D pen. I think he got it at Target. My mom got it for him. Yeah, I think yes, in Amazon. And they're usually about $45, $50. Vanessa (12:40.396) That's so cool. Where did you get it from? Lauren (12:40.43) Great idea. Wilhelmina (12:41.064) That's awesome. Vanessa (12:44.608) Okay. your mom got it for me. Okay. Okay. Lauren (12:45.132) I've seen them on Amazon as well. There's a couple different brands. Vanessa (12:50.954) Okay, I love that. Teri (12:51.184) and then you can get refills and there's little carrying cases you can get for them so you can bring it places. And again, the output is not gorgeous. I mean, it's like whatever, but it's very hours of entertainment and very user friendly. He has not needed any adult help to figure it out and how to put the filaments or whatever it is, the cartridges in. He's just able to like go and do it and we don't have to help, which is a win-win. Wilhelmina (12:57.64) This is awesome. Lauren (13:01.783) Yeah Vanessa (13:17.836) That's great. Yeah, I'm always like, because Eb's birthday is December 1st and then Christmas. And I'm always like, like struggling to like think of what else to get in that very small period of time. So I love that. I think she would actually like that. Lauren (13:17.966) That's a great idea. Wilhelmina (13:22.493) Hmm. Lauren (13:30.126) That's a great idea. Wilhelmina (13:30.13) Well, I have the same thing. Griffin, December 20th and then Christmas. So we actually give him his main gift for Christmas or for birthday in July or June for his half birthday. Cause we were like, I can't give him all his gifts for the entire year in the span of five days. I know you're not, it's not much better. Yeah. Vanessa (13:33.984) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Teri (13:34.438) Yeah. Vanessa (13:43.619) In five days. I mean, I'm working with like 24. Yeah, we've been trying to get her to do experiences. We're like, where would you like to go? Like I was traumatized by the birthday party. So we're skipping that this year. I'm like, we'll do it next year when it's your 10th birthday and it's special. Cause I feel I'm still, I'm still recovering from the last birthday party. Lauren (13:44.439) Right. Teri (13:44.892) Five days. Teri (13:50.0) Yeah. Teri (14:04.88) Yeah. Well, how about you, Vanessa? What's your fave? Lauren (14:05.518) You Vanessa (14:08.33) So I also have a gift idea since this will be airing a couple weeks before Christmas and the holidays. So I got this from my sister a couple years ago, and then she did it for my niece last year. So I thought, this is really good one. especially, we're talking about girls, young adults, teens today. So this is good for that group, but also if you're just someone who's a makeup lover or just beauty products in general. And it's to do a beauty product subscription. so she did one for me for Birchbox and then she did one for my niece using Ipsy last year. And so it sends you, sometimes full size, sometimes, sample sizes. So it can depend depending on what the product is. and then you can select if you want it more makeup, more skincare, haircare. So it's not just makeup. It's, it's just that whole kind of just a genre in general. so they'll send me like shampoo or like makeup setting spray or perfume. So. Teri (14:40.55) Hmm. Yeah. Vanessa (15:07.21) It can be the full range. And so I just think it's such a great idea. So you can set it up. So Birchbox is nice because you can do prepaid for three months. So you can send the gift for like, that's for three months. The person will receive basically three boxes of a mix of things. Or you can do 12 months prepaid. And then some of them will just do it monthly. But the problem with that, my sister was telling me because she was the one who came up with this idea, is that you have to then remember to cancel it if you don't do a prepaid one. Teri (15:34.406) Mm-hmm. Vanessa (15:37.027) you can kind of do it for however much time you want. But I just thought it's so fun because it's kind of like you're getting a little gift once a month, you know, so it's like the gift that keeps on giving. So I thought that was just a really good gift to give someone. So if you're struggling with ideas, they do ask you a couple of questions in the beginning. I actually went on Birchbox and at Ipsies just to see what type of questions. So it's like hair color, know, eye color. It'll ask you like, what do want more of or less of? So I'm assuming if you're doing this for someone else, you can just say. You can keep it kind of neutral if you're like, I'm not really sure what they like. You can just pick some neutral responses. But I thought that was such a great gift. I loved getting it. And I just loved how each month I got something different. And then my niece got it last year. And then she was actually sharing some of that stuff with me. She's like, oh, do you want some of that stuff? And I was like, oh, you got one of these too? So my sister's a good gift giver. So I'm stealing her idea. So if you're looking for something, you can do one of these subscriptions for someone that you need to buy a gift for. Yeah, it's fun. Super fun. Lauren (16:25.016) It's a good one. Wilhelmina (16:31.912) I love that. Teri (16:32.431) I it. Vanessa (16:34.754) All right, so we are going to be talking about girls today. So what are the things that girls are experiencing? And most importantly, how can we support them? So I thought it'd be good for us to kind of start off with what are some of the things that girls are experiencing? And I say girls, mean, young girls, teens, and also young adults. And some of this, think, leaks into even our age group, too. And so I thought it'd be a good idea to kind of start there. Some of the things that I thought of, we've talked a little bit about, but I think it would be helpful to kind lump them together so we're saying like, here's all the things that girls experience. And so some of these things are friendship dynamics, right? We know that there can be a lot of friend drama, especially in certain age groups, right? There's a lot of body image stuff, like on social media. There's also a rise in online misogyny, which I think we talked a little bit about that when we talked about the boys last time. We know that mental health challenges for girls are there for a lot of different reasons, which we can get into. Other themes that you all have either heard girls talking about, this could be patients, this could be family members, young adults, women, things that they're experiencing, or even just diving into some of these topics. Teri (17:46.96) I think fitting in, in general, is huge. And so whether that's, like you talked about the friendship dynamics, if it's relational aggression that shows up sometimes as early as age eight or nine in terms of how girls navigate friendships and peer groups, relational aggression is more covert. It is usually housed in exclusion and inviting certain girls or kids to your birthday party versus not, sleepovers. Vanessa (17:50.562) That's another one, yeah. Lauren (18:01.821) Mm-hmm. Teri (18:16.902) who's riding with who, if you're part of the group chat or not, on and on, anyone who has been around girls. If you make it to fifth or sixth grade and it hasn't started yet, you're probably lucky because it will definitely show up. It can be a pretty big source of stress. But I think fitting in ebbs and flows and evolves as you move through adolescence. And so whether that's using social media to fit in and figuring out who you are. what your brand is, if you're, you there's different labels we have now for what kind of girl you are. Are you a, I'm sure you guys have heard, are you a pick me girl? So that's something I hear a lot in the therapy world. do not as much anymore, but I still do. I carry a small caseload of teen girls and young women. So they talk about, are you a pick me girl? Are you a basic girl? You know, do you use a Stanley cup or not? You know, how do you identify yourself? Wilhelmina (18:50.886) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (18:56.487) Yeah. Lauren (19:10.094) Mm-hmm. Teri (19:12.186) And then that goes all the way up to, think for women as they progress into early adulthood and adulthood, do you have a mom group to fit in with? Do you fit in with the other moms at your kid's school? Are you a dance mom? Are you a sports mom? I came from a out of town lacrosse tournament over the weekend and four of the moms had custom made ski hats with their kids lacrosse number and glitter. Lauren (19:36.234) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Teri (19:37.356) on the band and my husband had warned me, he said, get ready, there's, because I hadn't been to one of these tournaments yet. I just couldn't make it until this past weekend. And it was a scene in terms of how you're fitting in and who you align with. And now are you a trad wife? Meaning are you a traditional wife? What type of wife are you? So I think in general, across the lifespan, women and girls are trying to figure out where they fit in and who they are and what points of reference do they use to inform that. Lauren (19:46.841) yeah. Vanessa (20:03.158) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (20:08.402) Well, and think we should, we're saying some of these concepts and I actually think we should explain what some of these are. Because like when I first heard Tread Rife, I was like, what is that exactly? I kind of like knew it when I saw it, but I was like, what's the actual like definition of it? And then the Pick Me Girl, like also sort of like these concepts that are being thrown out there, but like what are they and how do they actually show up in these, like in the lives of like girls and adults? And Tread Wife, of course, is just now like, like traditional, like going back to like super traditional, like, I'm going to stay at home, my husband's going to work, I'm going to cook, I'm going to do all the childcare, just very, very traditional. And Lauren (20:42.35) Traditional, right. Lauren (20:54.894) But I think it's expanded. It's even more than traditional. It's like, I'm gonna make my own gum. Like there's, you've heard of the one online and she's like, I mean, it's like not even my own cookies for the kids when they get home. It's like, make my own gum, make my own like deodorant and soap. I mean, even like a label like that, there's a lot behind it, right? Yeah, yeah. Super drive. Yes. Vanessa (21:02.684) Hahaha! Teri (21:03.57) You Vanessa (21:07.906) you Vanessa (21:17.922) So Little House on the Prairies, that's where we're going. Got it. Teri (21:20.146) Yeah, yeah. Right, right. Wilhelmina (21:20.924) I'm churn my own butter. Lauren (21:24.11) Yes, there's a lot there. It's not as easy. I mean, I think there is sort of like this like, oh gosh, what's the word? Like simplicity to the term, but it really, mean, they're doing a whole lot. Teri (21:35.826) When I first heard it, I thought it was trade wife. My eyes read it quickly and I thought it was women who were married to traders, financial traders, trade, like the stock exchange. And I thought, I wonder. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Lauren (21:41.024) Yeah. Wilhelmina (21:41.864) Mm-hmm. Lauren (21:46.14) trade. yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which makes sense. They work a lot. Vanessa (21:46.466) Trade wives. Wilhelmina (21:55.187) Yeah. Well, and that's why I wanted to define it because I was like, I feel like you might've said it first. And I was like, what is that? And I had to like, what is, yes. Vanessa (21:55.99) You know what, you were saying? Teri (22:01.862) What is that? Lauren (22:02.014) Yeah, there's a whole lot behind it, yes. Vanessa (22:02.402) Thank you. Teri (22:05.862) Yeah. Vanessa (22:06.882) Well, think, Terry, you made a good point about how it starts in early childhood for girls and it kind of goes on through even into adulthood. And I know for me personally, like some of the things that you said that adult women are experiencing, I know that I experienced that. And this is coming from someone who feels pretty confident in who they are and who, you know, like we're psychologists, so we get, you know, certain aspects I think other people don't, and we have a fully developed brain. And it can be challenging. So imagine how young girls are feeling trying to navigate these social groups and these things that are happening to them and even teens and even young adults. And so I do think that it's something that we should all be aware of, right? Because it's happening, it continues to happen. And in those early stages, I think that can be really kind of defining for a girl, right? How you navigate those experiences and what you're being told by presumably your parents about these situations. And I know that I'm constantly, know, Eve comes home and she tells me something and I'm always like, okay, like, let's talk about this. Like, let's, you know, learn from this. And you said third grade and actually for her last year we had some situations, some social stuff and she was in second grade. And I was like, how is this happening already? And she's just such a like... She's still like such a kid. Like she's just very like into like creative play. She's very imaginative. Like she's on the playground and she's playing like it's all imaginative play, you know? And then, you know, she's telling me that there's girls walking around and talking about like skincare and stuff that like, and she's just like, you know, and then they're doing all this mean girl stuff. And some of it, think she got and she gets, and some of it I think just flies right over her head. She has no idea like what is happening. And I'm always like, Lauren (23:43.832) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (23:44.754) the fridges in their rooms, yeah. Teri (23:44.946) For their makeup. Vanessa (23:58.627) explain to her what this is, so she's ready for the next time, or do I just let her live in her little bliss world of not knowing what this is yet, right? And just being unaware of it. So I think it's really hard. Lauren (24:10.904) So I did a talk for actually this exact same age, the young elementary school kids this spring, this last spring about mean girl behavior. And I do think it's really helpful. Two things that from the feedback from moms that attended the talk, and it was moms, it was open to all parents, but it was 100 % moms. But the feedback that we received from moms that attended the talk were Wilhelmina (24:11.1) You know. Wilhelmina (24:35.366) Interesting. Lauren (24:39.542) two things. One, it was really helpful for them to understand the definition of mean girl behavior in psychology terms, which is exactly what Terry described earlier, relational aggression. And so it's all through talk. They don't go on the playground and beat each other up and then it's over with. So that physical aggression is over and done with pretty quickly. And there are advantages and disadvantages to that. But relational aggression is so much more subtle. so mean girl behavior is a really nice way, I think, to encompass it for for most people when they hear the term, they think they know what they're hearing. But then the feedback from the moms was it was really helpful to understand that that's a type of communication or behavior that's really specific to girls and their interactions. And the second thing, and it kind of goes along what you were saying, Vanessa, about do I talk to her about it? Do I explain it? Do I try to educate her? The second thing that from doing research prior to the talk and really then again, getting feedback from the moms that was very helpful was to really meet the child where they're at. And so we don't need to be describing concepts to girls that aren't ready to understand the concept. We don't need to be sort of aging them up in their education. We can just meet them where they're at and whatever the situation is in that moment, helping them navigate that situation, not doing it for them. Teri (25:55.058) Mm-hmm. Lauren (26:04.054) not being the Zamboni parent that just sort of clears all conflict out of the way for them, but helping them navigate it. And for girls, again, I think specific to girls, which makes it a little bit more challenging is the navigation is through communication, which is tough because they're little, they're young. And so helping them navigate it where they're at developmentally as being a really helpful, let them come to you and then you can respond accordingly versus kind of overdoing it and then overwhelming them. Vanessa (26:20.119) Yeah. Lauren (26:33.942) in the process. Teri (26:35.632) And two things I would add to that is saying, what do you think of that? Always anytime your kids bring stuff to you, right? Putting it back on them like, like, that's interesting. What do you think about that? Or what do you know? Do you wonder about that? Do you have any questions about that in terms of meeting and where they're at? And then the other question to start to introduce is this idea of being popular versus being powerful when it comes to pure relationships. Vanessa (26:36.343) I think. Lauren (26:41.262) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (26:41.39) Mm-hmm. Critical thinking. Vanessa (26:42.806) Yeah. Yeah. Wilhelmina (27:03.932) Mm-hmm. Teri (27:05.21) and explaining to your kids, both girls and boys, but obviously this comes up way more with girls, the difference between the two. Being popular is being well-liked and being powerful is that people are remaining your friend because they don't want to be excluded and be left out. And the goal actually isn't to be either. There is a third option, which is to be friendly and trustworthy, but not easily pushed around. And if you can give kids, being authentic, and if you can give kids some of that language to have in the back of their head and give them some of those breadcrumbs, friendly and trustworthy, but not easily pushed around. What does that actually look like in terms of how you say to your friends, if you hear about a sleepover you weren't included in, or you don't know what's going to happen when you go to play practice because they don't know if they want you to come or not, or if you're going to be included. Lauren (27:30.88) authentic. Lauren (27:43.512) I love that. Vanessa (27:45.27) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (27:54.395) Mm hmm. Yep. Yes. Yes, exactly. And I think that being able to, if they come to you with like something that they're dealing with, or I feel like I need to do this or that, along with that critical thinking is sort of like identifying, is this an internal thing that you're kind of working through? And then let's explore that. Like, Lauren (27:56.61) Mm-hmm. Lauren (28:18.133) out. Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (28:22.874) versus an external expectation. right, right, yes. So I think that that helps them easily categorize it in terms of like, okay, this is internal versus external. And then you can kind of choose which direction and how to talk about it from there. Because if it's something they don't actually even really wanna do, then that's a different conversation than, no, I really do, but. Lauren (28:25.74) Yep. Like, do you even want to do that thing they're doing that you were left out of? Yes. Yes. Teri (28:30.066) Hmm Lauren (28:49.496) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (28:53.04) I wasn't invited or this or that. You know, this is just an interesting, as we're talking about this and when we talked about the trad wife and some of that going on, the other day I was at a talent show, elementary talent show. And did I, did I talk to you guys about this? What I saw from, so with this, Lauren (28:54.253) Yeah. Lauren (29:19.544) Hmm. Vanessa (29:19.746) Thanks, sir. Wilhelmina (29:22.312) they have the Golden Eagles, which are the girl cheerleaders. so it's like, so they do performances. So usually they're always in the talent show because they'll just put on a dance from there, So when my daughter was in sixth grade and in elementary, I don't even know anyone that was, maybe one or two girls were in the Golden Eagles that I knew about, but it wasn't a thing. Lauren (29:26.839) Okay. Wilhelmina (29:51.089) Maddie now is in seventh grade. When we saw this, every grade had a Golden Eagles performance. You got to the kindergarten and the stage was full. Okay? You got to first grade, pretty full. Second grade, pretty full. All of a sudden around fourth and fifth, it dropped off. Lauren (30:03.896) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wilhelmina (30:15.386) And I was like, so is this dropping off because of they've got other things going on or is this a shift of what we're seeing because it really was not a thing when Maddie was younger. And is this going along with sort of this like the cheerleader, think about the cheerleader, like what the cheerleader is and you know, all of that. It's surprising that we're seeing more and more and more of this. And I was like, is this just my area? Is this part of like the more traditional like teaching girls to be cheerleaders and doing this, or is it just part of that class dynamic? It made me question just my own critical thinking. Like, is this something more a bigger thing, or is this just sort of like, my friend's doing Golden Eagles, so I want to do Golden Eagles, and then everyone's kind of doing it from there. I don't know. I was wondering, I was going to throw it out there in our text thread to be like, what do you guys think about this? And does it have anything to do with gender expectations? Teri (31:13.778) So there's more golden eagles or less golden eagles as time goes on? Okay, that was not clear. Okay. No, I get I get it. There's more golden eagles now. Yes. Right, this is like out of a Berenstain Bears book or something. Lauren (31:17.25) I'm just gonna ask the question. Wilhelmina (31:17.978) More, more. There's more than there used to be. Okay. So, so it's now a much more popular thing. And like, it really wasn't a thing before. Vanessa (31:18.228) Yeah. Lauren (31:27.128) I think I will tell you actually, I've got some cheerleaders in my life and I think they could potentially take offense to the idea that it is like girly traditional thing. They take this as a competitive sport and I wonder if there's... Wilhelmina (31:45.414) No, I agree with you on that. But they're not doing that. They are cheering for the football and they are not doing... These ones aren't. These ones aren't. Vanessa (31:46.21) Well, it depends what kind of cure you're doing, too. Lauren (31:51.384) Well, but they do both. Well, at least in our community, they do both. So they cheer for football and basketball, but then all winter long, it's competitive cheer. And they're at competitions every single weekend doing the dance that you saw versus other schools that also have a dance and they have a skills portion and things like that. And these girls, so my cousin's daughter is on varsity cheer and she is in training. Vanessa (31:53.718) Yeah, someone could do both. Yeah. Yeah. Vanessa (32:00.547) competitive cheer. Lauren (32:17.174) all year long, like actual, like with a physical trainer and things like that. So, well, I guess what I'm, what I would venture to guess is that it's a new activity and opportunity for girls to be involved in. And I actually perceive that in a really positive way. Not, I don't think it's the cheer of old. I don't think it's the cheer from 30 years ago. I really think that this is viewed as a, a really strong athletic endeavor. And I think, so maybe not in your community, but I think that that's why we see more. Wilhelmina (32:49.704) So I thought that's what it was. I thought cheerleading had moved to that, right? That competitive, like bring it on, like we are doing the cheer comp. So I had kind of been like, yes, cheer is like huge. But what I felt like I was seeing was more of the traditional, but then again, maybe I just don't know what's going on in the background and things like that, where they're going. Cause I was like, that's where I guess I was confused. Cause I was like, this is looking like it's the traditional, but maybe it's just one aspect of it. Lauren (32:55.918) It has where we're at. Yep. Lauren (33:08.044) Hmm. Yeah. Teri (33:11.122) Right. Lauren (33:19.725) Yeah. Wilhelmina (33:19.812) I just was like surprised to see the numbers shift so much in the span of like, I guess, five years. Lauren (33:22.275) Mm-hmm. Teri (33:25.616) I also think there's a lot of zeitgeist in communities of what is popular and what is sort of the norm for that particular region. So I live in an area where baseball is huge for boys, softball also for girls, but the local high school always has a top tier baseball team and it's baseball, baseball, travel, baseball, baseball, baseball. And that is just pervasive. And my kids played a little bit of T-ball and now they're doing out the. Lauren (33:27.982) message. Mm-hmm. Lauren (33:35.182) Hmm? Teri (33:55.692) other sports and activities. And so I think I talked to friends from other communities and they're like, there is baseball, but football is really big or basketball is really big. Yes. Yes. So I do think it's very much sort of regional what hits and what tracks. But I do think that brings up a valid point that if you have daughters, especially who are trying to find their place and find their people and try different activities, what are they going to gravitate towards? Vanessa (34:03.574) Yeah, like here it's lacrosse and field hockey is like the big thing. Yeah. Yeah. Wilhelmina (34:03.836) Yeah, yes, like football is big here, yes. Lauren (34:05.965) Mm-hmm. Lauren (34:10.638) like regional. Teri (34:24.988) Well, what are all their peers doing? Or what's right? What's most pervasive in front of their face all the time might be the activities they select. But I do think, I don't think I know participating in physical activities is such a protective factor for girls in terms of their self-esteem, eating disorder, substance use. It's right up there with family, regular family meals multiple times a week. If you want to buffer your daughters, that's it. Lauren (34:26.914) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (34:27.069) Yes. Lauren (34:39.297) It's huge. Vanessa (34:40.167) yeah. Wilhelmina (34:41.713) Absolutely. Vanessa (34:48.524) And I found that like when there's social stuff at school, so a lot of my patients who come in, know, I don't do therapy, but I do assessment. And what I'm hearing from a lot of the girls, if they have social issues at school, is that the ones who are in different sports activities, they'll say, my cheer friends, my soccer friends. So it gives them an opportunity outside of the school setting to have social connections and have friendships. Wilhelmina (35:09.629) Yes. Vanessa (35:16.372) especially when there's issues at school, right? When there's, for whatever reason, there's a lot of reasons why. Yeah, that they have this group of friends that they can still, you know, like they feel like they have friends and they feel like part of it. So I think that that's another reason why it's so important, you know, to have fine opportunities for your child to join something. And it doesn't even have, I don't think it necessarily has to be sports. I mean, we know that there are... Lauren (35:19.542) It's incredibly protective. Wilhelmina (35:36.082) joining. Yes. Lauren (35:38.838) Yeah. Vanessa (35:41.505) definite benefits from physical activity, but also just in general, think that there's benefits from being part of something right outside of school. And that's one of the things I'm always telling Abba, I was like, it's important for you to have your friends at school, but also you can have friends outside of school and isn't that nice that you can then have this kind of variety of friends. But it can be hard if your kid's not sporty. My child, we tried soccer forever and it was just like, okay, it's a hard no, we're not doing that. And then she watched Dancing with Stars and now she's doing ballroom dancing, which... it's not a team thing really, you know? And so she's thinking about doing cheer. So my niece actually did competitive cheer and it's very intensive. And I told her, was like, you sure you wanna do this? it's, because she did gymnastics before and it was very intensive and there was a team aspect to it. And we were actually disappointed not because we care what she does, but because she lost that team experience by leaving gymnastics. So we're trying to get her to pick whatever, whatever it is. We don't care if you're good at it. So yeah, so. Wilhelmina (36:18.568) There you go. Lauren (36:19.47) Yeah. Yeah. Wilhelmina (36:32.931) Mm. Yeah. Lauren (36:33.154) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (36:38.29) Well then cheer's great for that. Like, yeah. Cause my friend, her daughter was also looking for something and she, because she's in second grade, she joined the golden Eagles. And it was like, and I know my friend was like, I know the name is just like, it's just a lot. It's just a lot. But like, and I know my friend was a little bit like, no, she's, you know, she's doing cheer. Cause she had been in like lots of different sports for herself, but like, Vanessa (36:41.057) I think. Lauren (36:50.35) We have an Eagles team around here. know. Yeah. Yeah. They're gonna make it kind of cutesy. Yeah. Teri (36:50.367) I'm sorry. Sorry. I'm sorry. Okay. I'm just going to laugh every time. I'm sorry. Vanessa (36:52.258) Yeah. Vanessa (37:04.546) towards, yeah. Wilhelmina (37:06.65) Then the first like game and her daughter was doing it and it was like clear that this was her thing. Like she just was so into it. She loved it. Her friends were in it and it was like, there it is. So it's sort of like Vanessa, if that's what she wants to do, it's like, try it out. Try it out. Like it's. Lauren (37:12.515) Yeah. Vanessa (37:20.748) Yeah, yeah. that's one of the things about, I was just gonna say that was one of the things that I was reading about, like how you can help girls is build their confidence is really like encouraging them to try things, to try new things. And it doesn't have to turn out right. And so that's another thing. It's like making sure that they know that the outcome doesn't matter as long as you're trying your best or having fun, that sort of thing can really just help them build that confidence and that self-esteem that we know is so important for girls. Teri (37:21.98) But casting the, yeah. Vanessa (37:49.091) especially in today's age with all the stuff that they're kind of being bombarded with. We've kind of focused on like the social friendship stuff. But there is lots of other things that we know are impacting, you know, how girls are functioning, the things that are impacting them now. It's not just the social stuff. So I don't know if you guys want to get into any of that other stuff. Wilhelmina (38:09.938) Well, I- Lauren (38:10.082) Well, what are you referring to? Vanessa (38:11.456) Yeah. So I mean, speaking of trad wife, you know, there's a lot of, you know, negative rhetoric kind of going on. You you hear the word misogyny. It's huge on social media right now. And I think girls are really being impacted. There was that New York Times article. What was it titled? Did women ruin the workforce? You know, and I think all of the stuff that we're seeing on social media really impacts. Like, there's already things that they're dealing with just Wilhelmina (38:29.212) Yes. Wilhelmina (38:32.775) Yes. Vanessa (38:41.3) on a very like social like right we're dealing with the social stuff in our front group and then as now you have kind of this additional kind of outside noise and I don't think it's new I just think it's enhanced because of social media and what you know is available. Teri (38:53.362) Yeah, I think it's enhanced, but I also think it, I think it's interesting because I think adults are being exposed to it and some young women depending on their specific algorithm. But then I think like our kids, their ages, I don't think they have any exposure to that. So I think it's how do parents balance, okay, there is this noise, especially in the social media realm, but my kids aren't actually being exposed to that, but people who could have influence on their lives. Lauren (39:09.954) No. Teri (39:22.14) could be exposed to that, right? Future employers, future boyfriends, girlfriends, classmates, teammates, et cetera. So how do you balance some of that? Because the stuff we're being exposed to is not what our kids are being exposed to. And so having to... Vanessa (39:22.614) Right. For sure. Vanessa (39:35.65) Right, but I think teens, I think teens are and young adults are. Teri (39:39.122) I think depending on their algorithm, when I ask, yeah, when I, yeah. Lauren (39:41.422) I was just going to say I don't see any of that stuff because I see Christmas trees. You know what I mean? Teri (39:46.234) Well, I do, think it, right. Vanessa (39:46.817) Right. Well, yeah. Well, and that's what we talked about for our last episode with boys is that they created the fake profile. Right. And so I don't even know that you need to be necessarily searching for things. Right. We know that there's algorithms that exist and these things are out there. But even just going back to the New York Times, like that, you know, that's definitely out there. And it's not just grown adults who are reading that. There's young women who are in their early 20s. You know, I'm sure 19 year old saw that 18 year old. Teri (39:53.862) Right. Wilhelmina (39:54.045) Mm-hmm. Lauren (39:54.519) Yeah? Vanessa (40:16.084) And how is that affecting their confidence? No, but I know I don't mean the New York Times, but on social media, was it ran around right like social media, right? Yeah. Teri (40:16.754) I wish 18 year olds were reading the New York Times. Right. Right. Lauren (40:19.928) I was just going to say because that was just a headline though, but you got to be careful of the headlines. There was a lot more to that than just the headline, right? And I think that's the problem. That's what you're talking about. You're talking about the headlines that people are seeing and then they're going by and like how that gets versus actual critical thinking when you're actually reading something like that and they're looking at the history of feminism and things like that. I mean, that's what that like it, I think that Vanessa (40:36.554) Right, right. And then it just gets like perpetuate. Yes. Yeah. Lauren (40:49.74) The way in which you stop the things that we don't want to have happen is you don't engage in the things that you don't agree with and that you don't, like the more you engage, the more you're gonna feel like that is the world. The more you disengage and you say, I'm not teaching those things to my kids, these aren't my values. And you take that, what you feel like is this social media world where everything's out there right now and it's so scary. Vanessa (41:00.908) Right. Well, and that's what, right. Lauren (41:14.22) you just take it all away and you bring it back to like your nuclear, you know, the circle around you and what you're exposing yourself to, what people you're involving in your life on a day-to-day basis and what you're exposing your kids to. And on a micro level, that's how we all get rid of this, is if we all just kind of go back to the basics and focus on, as Jerry said, family dinners, like things like that. Teri (41:38.332) Well, also think in encouraging critical thinking, think, yeah, right. Like how do you, right. Wilhelmina (41:41.49) was just gonna say that. Yes, yes, yes. Lauren (41:41.548) Yeah, it's not just the lines. Vanessa (41:41.954) Well, that's what I gonna say. Like we as adults can do exactly what you say. I'm thinking of the young girl who's impressionable, right? The young adult, the teen who's impressionable who is, know, maybe seeing some of these things, right? And how do we teach them how to... Teri (41:55.858) So I think it's less direct explicit teaching and lecturing and didactic. Hey, I know you saw this, but this is you shouldn't believe that. I think it's more about encouraging critical thinking. What do you think of that? I have thoughts, but let me hear yours first through that modeling. But then also as parents, we almost need to have a menu of protective factors to try to buffer the risk factors because that type of direct social media exposure Vanessa (42:11.67) Right. Yeah. Lauren (42:11.724) Yeah, modeling. Lauren (42:21.096) Mm-hmm. You got it. Teri (42:25.878) is high up on the risk factor list, right? Just engagement in social media in terms of higher rates of eating disorders, risky sexual promiscuous behaviors, other types of risky behaviors, gambling, yeah. How do you perceive that misogyny you're being exposed to online? So we need to buffer and sort of counterbalance that with protective factors. And I think some of those in addition to... Lauren (42:28.652) Right. Lauren (42:33.474) Hmm. Gambling. Mm-hmm. Teri (42:49.572) social connectedness, family meals. School connectedness is a huge protective factor. If kids feel like they belong at their particular school and they have a place in their school. So if your kid's current school is not a good fit, depending on what their peers are, how their male peers could be interacting with them, you're gonna need to rethink if the school is a good fit because school connectedness is a major protective factor. I also think equipping young women with refusal skills. So that is refusal skills for Lauren (42:54.092) Mm-hmm. Teri (43:18.758) substances for how males or peers might interact if they are soliciting nudes, naked pictures, and sexting, which happens a lot among teen girls, and for boys, right. So how do you equip them with refusal skills if someone asks you for an inappropriate picture and makes a threat if you don't send it to them? Because that's very commonplace for teen girls right now. Lauren (43:29.986) That's and that's true for boys too, by the way. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Teri (43:43.068) How do you empower them and equip them with a script and refusal skills about how to turn that down so they don't engage in some type of inappropriate sexting? Lauren (43:51.905) And not relying on social media to educate them. when you said that help menu is like that needs to go to the top of the help menu too, is like there's got to be so much else in your life going on that you recognize that social media can be a part that I would put under hopefully entertainment for somebody. Right. And then there's so many other things that that child, that young adult is engaged with, that those are the protective factors because social media isn't running their life. Wilhelmina (43:52.008) So to this. Teri (43:55.558) Yeah. Yeah. Wilhelmina (43:55.752) Well, that's for sure. Vanessa (43:55.938) We have to leave. Right. Vanessa (44:21.676) But I think part of this goes back to like parenting. Because I know when clients come in, like, how much screen time? That's like a question that I've been like, how much screen time is your child getting? We think, the four of us, that all the parents are on board with too much screen time, watching social. I think we are in the minority. are in, yes. Lauren (44:27.042) I love it. Teri (44:40.018) they are not. Yes. Wilhelmina (44:41.32) They can say they are and then in practice, yes. Vanessa (44:45.206) Thank you. We are in the minority because when I tell people like, you know, when I'm talking about like what my child does, like as far as like screen time, social media, I can tell that people are like, what? You know, and when I ask them, I usually get like, it's probably more than they should, you know. So this is my concern is that I don't know that all the parents are on board with really equipping their kids to know how to consume, you know, what's on social media. And so that it goes back to. Teri (44:55.516) Mm-hmm. Vanessa (45:13.474) you know, parents and not just being like, well, I told them until they were 13 and now I've kind of just let it go. It's like still continuing to have these conversations with them as adolescents and even as young adults, because they, don't think that they're all prepared. I don't think that enough parents are preparing their kids for what they're being exposed to online. Wilhelmina (45:31.593) Well, and we're talking about online and social media, but Vanessa, you sent us that article that was actually written by a high school student and noting what she's seeing in the high school. Yeah, the return of the chill girl. And since, I guess, I think it's since Trump's first election or first presidency that they've seen, like, there's a shift where... Vanessa (45:42.642) the chill girl. Yeah. Teri (45:45.435) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (45:58.813) girls who maybe once were outspoken and like, if someone said something offensive or said something, you know, they would speak up. And now they're seeing more of these girls that just, you know, if someone makes an inappropriate comment or joke or whatever, now they just kind of go along with it. Like, and so they're saying like, being chill. Yes, yes. Because they are worried about this, like, if... Teri (46:18.502) Being chill is being more attractive. Right. Vanessa (46:21.324) Yes. Wilhelmina (46:26.094) if they speak up, they're just gonna get some blowback from other people. Like you can't take a joke, you're just whatever. And so they're seeing this, which is a little bit disturbing to hear, I think. And it makes me think, when I read that article, it made me think of Gone Girl. Do you guys remember the book and the movie? And the main female character. Teri (46:49.778) Mm-hmm. Lauren (46:50.712) Mm-hmm. Vanessa (46:51.706) yeah. Wilhelmina (46:55.464) talked about how she always tried to be, I think she called it the cool girl, but basically she just completely made her personality to go along with anything her partner wanted. So her part wants to go until she just killed everyone. Yeah. Which is what happens when, was just kidding. So, but that's what I thought of is like, you just make yourself. Teri (47:08.888) until she snapped. Vanessa (47:12.642) You Teri (47:14.352) Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Right. Wilhelmina (47:25.648) appealing by being what you think others want you to be. Teri (47:28.21) And there's so many options for people to look at to do that, if that's the route. So there's so many options of, again, am I the chill girl? Am I the pick me girl? Which for people to know what that is, it's a term I first heard from a teenage client, I don't know, maybe five, six years ago. And I've had teenagers describe it to me a variety of ways, but it's a version, it's sort of a hybrid of what we're describing. Lauren (47:36.184) Right. Wilhelmina (47:39.196) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lauren (47:46.403) Yeah. Teri (47:53.148) where a girl tries to come off to others as very chill and nonchalant, but they secretly want a lot of attention and are hoping that you will get picked, aka pick me, pick me, I hope you pick me. I'm actually the most attractive. I still don't totally get my head around it, because I've heard it defined. I've had multiple different teenage girls try to define it for me and no one's super clear on it. Lauren (48:00.751) Mm-hmm. Vanessa (48:04.012) Hmm. Lauren (48:04.194) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (48:04.424) Yes. Wilhelmina (48:17.394) think that Taylor Swift lyric, like, she wears short, short or short skirts, I wear t shirts, like she's whatever I'm on the bleachers is like a very good snippet of like what you just described. Like, I'm, I'm just wearing t shirts and like chill like pick me like Teri (48:31.526) Like pick me. Right. But I think it comes back to people, teens, especially in girls, not they need to more accurately identify who they are and what they want back to values like Lauren was talking about. Yes. What do they value? Who are they? Only they can define that. One thing I thought about, too, because anxiety is just so pervasive across like everybody has. Lauren (48:36.92) So. Lauren (48:45.312) is what? Values. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Wilhelmina (48:45.34) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (48:54.461) Yes. Lauren (48:59.208) Mm-hmm. Everybody. Vanessa (49:00.838) yeah. Teri (49:01.554) I was talking to a colleague of mine who's 75, who I refer, we refer to each other often. And she said, everybody has anxiety. It used to be, oh, I wonder if someone has anxiety. She goes, is baseline across the board. Everybody who shows up at a minimum has anxiety. It's just a part of the human condition and it's so pervasive. And I think, yes, how's it impacting? And I think we need to teach young people, girls especially, but young people across the board. Lauren (49:09.282) Mm-hmm. Lauren (49:15.948) Right, right. Wilhelmina (49:19.784) Yes. How much is it interfering is now the question, not do you have it? Yes. Lauren (49:23.822) How is it impacting your functioning, right? Vanessa (49:24.118) Right, right. Lauren (49:29.247) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (49:31.207) Yes. Teri (49:32.11) of how to perceive stress and anxiety. It is not something to eliminate. It is something to manage. And we need to teach, yes, and we need to teach young people how to manage their personal alarm system and what to recognize because as they're figuring out who they are and what they value and what they're into and what their interests are and how to navigate friendships and their different circles and gymnastics friends and dance friends and school friends, Wilhelmina (49:35.4) Yes. Yes. Lauren (49:37.378) Right. I can be anxious and. Lauren (49:48.238) Hmm? Wilhelmina (49:48.68) Night. Teri (50:01.102) It's also, there's so much anxiety and stress embedded in all of those scenarios that they need guidance on how to figure out what is my alarm system telling me? What is normal? What is healthy anxiety? What is unhealthy anxiety? How do I manage that amidst all of this? Because anxiety is just so pervasive. Lauren (50:07.426) Yeah. Lauren (50:15.596) Right. Wilhelmina (50:23.442) Well, doesn't Lisa DeMore have that distress is not dysfunction? Lauren (50:27.266) Right, yep. Yeah, it's teaching them that they can function with anxiety. Anxiety is not a reason to close yourself off from the world or an excuse for X, Y, or Z. Right. I often use the example from Runaway Bride with Julia Roberts about, so I use this in therapy, yes. Teri (50:27.331) Yes. Wilhelmina (50:29.298) So. Yes. Teri (50:37.65) or try to change who you are and what you're into and what you like. Vanessa (50:42.38) Well, there's also... Wilhelmina (50:48.026) I love this. I do too. Lauren and I, we've talked about this before. We both use it in therapy. I love this. Vanessa (50:49.651) Thank you. Lauren (50:53.29) Yes, which what egg does she like? And Richard Gere is the journalist is figuring out that every single one of her exes says she likes her eggs a different way. And in the bottom line is she doesn't know who she is. She transforms herself into the hiking outdoorsy girl for one guy and then the, you know, buttoned up businesswoman for another guy. Julia Roberts. Well, Richard Gere is in it as well. He's the journalist in it and he's the one that like. Teri (51:11.44) Is that Julia Roberts? I don't like her, so I avoid her. Wilhelmina (51:13.286) Yes, Richard Gere. Lauren (51:20.05) helps her to realize, you like eight different, what kind of eggs do you like? And she can't answer the question. And so there's a really powerful scene that I tell clients to watch of she's sitting down at a table and she's trying every single different kind of egg to figure out. so I utilize this when we have a values conversation in session about, it's figuring out how you like your eggs. It's figuring out who do I want to be? And Vanessa is correct. Teri (51:24.914) Hmm. Wilhelmina (51:25.426) Yes. Wilhelmina (51:30.684) literally have done this. Yep. Lauren (51:47.855) Parents are the curators of that and we only have so long and we can't tell people how to parent. All we can do is, again, that's why I always talk about kind of bringing it back to your inner circle of like figuring out what we wanna instill in our kids and who we wanna help our kids surround themselves by so that as they're figuring out how they like their eggs, so to speak, they're making good choices for themselves and for their own health. because there are plenty of people out there that don't realize sort of the wild wild west of social media and how that is really raising a generation that doesn't have any sense of their values. Vanessa (52:26.338) Yeah. And going back to the anxiety thing, not only being like, OK, I have anxiety, but also realizing that you can have anxiety and not have an anxiety disorder. It's an emotion that you can feel this emotion. It's emotion that you can feel, but doesn't mean necessarily that you have a disorder. there are tons of, there's just really high rates right now of actual people. I think it's like 20 % of 12 to 17-year-olds. It's not 20. Lauren (52:38.668) Yeah, we all do. Teri (52:38.694) Yes. Vanessa (52:54.082) 20 % of 12 to 17 year olds meet criteria for an anxiety disorder. So there is a lot of anxiety and a lot of this is driven by all the things that we've talked about today, the social media aspect anyway. So definitely need to keep teaching about feelings, how we process them, how we experience them and how we deal with them. Any other thoughts about today's topic? Any other recommendations, things that we wanna be telling girls? Any other thoughts? Teri (53:10.716) Mm-hmm. Teri (53:22.492) The only other thing I would add to as a parent when you're considering supporting your kids as they navigate peer relationships is kids really just need one to two good friends. They don't need to be part of a large group. Groups are stressful. Anytime you get more than three, four, five is huge. That's a big group and kids love to have groups even bigger than that. But your kids having one to two solid friends Lauren (53:34.126) Mm, that one. Mm-hmm. I love that. Yes. Vanessa (53:34.368) Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Teri (53:49.284) Like Vanessa mentioned, having wide circles, having multiple circles of friends can be very helpful in terms of protective factors for your kids. So don't stress if they're not in a group. It might serve them better if they just have a couple good solid buddies. Lauren (54:03.01) Yeah. Wilhelmina (54:04.838) When I think it's okay if your daughter comes to you and she has one or two close friends but expresses that she feels bad, she doesn't have, you know, like this, it's okay for you to just know that and let her talk about how she feels and kind of validate that, but also sort of just as a parent know like she's gonna be okay. You don't have to like tell her like, it's okay, you're gonna be fine. Lauren (54:27.244) Right. Teri (54:28.848) Don't you have to tell her the read the research says you're fine. Yeah, don't say that. Yeah. Yes, do not say that. Do not say that. Wilhelmina (54:32.674) Yes! Lauren (54:33.4) You'll be fine. Validate. Vanessa (54:33.718) Yeah. In fact, don't say that because they won't believe you. They're not going to believe you. They're going be like, of course you're saying that. What do you know? I know, I always have to tell Evan, I was reading this thing. So now when I'm like, I saw this thing, she's like, Wilhelmina (54:37.64) Yeah. I try that all the time with my kids. They're like, whatever mom, I don't care. yeah, nothing. Yeah. Good job. We know mom. Teri (54:43.056) Yeah. Yeah. Dummy. Right. Lauren (54:44.078) Mm hmm. The eye roll comes out real quick. Your job. Teri (54:52.37) You Teri (55:00.422) I know. Lauren (55:00.743) huh. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Happens real quick. Teri (55:03.218) You know? Yeah. Vanessa (55:03.714) What did you read now? What did you see now? What did you hear? Like, okay. All right, so just a couple of kind of housekeeping things. This is actually our last episode before we take a nice long winter break. So we will be back on January 9th with a new season. So we'll be back on January 9th, we'll take a little break. So this will give you some time to catch up on any episodes that you've missed. But if you're wondering where we are, we're just enjoying the holidays. All right, thank you all for joining us on The Shrinkdown.