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Good morning Grid connections listeners.

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Grid connections is the podcast where we explore the latest trends and innovations in
clean energy, electric vehicles, and our electrical grid time, all of them together.

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I'm your host Chase.

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And in today's episode, we're speaking with Joseph Nagel, the head of corporate strategy
at Pando electric.

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If you're interested in the future of EV charging, particularly for multi -tenant
facilities like apartments and condos, you won't want to miss this episode.

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Joseph shares how Pando Electric is revolutionizing EV charging by developing outlet
-based systems designed to make electric vehicle charging more affordable and accessible

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for renters and property owners.

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We'll dive into their groundbreaking partnership with Peninsula Clean Energy, which has
led to significant cost reductions in EV charging station installations and discuss the

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importance of at -home charging solutions for accelerating EV adoption.

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Whether you're a property manager looking to offer EV charging to your tenants or an EV
enthusiast interested in the latest industry trends, this episode is packed with valuable

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insights for you.

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Before we jump into the conversation, if you find this episode helpful, please share it
with someone who might benefit from this discussion and leave us a positive review on our

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podcast page.

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helps us reach more listeners and keep the conversation going.

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with that.

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Enjoy.

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That's great to be here.

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Thanks for having me.

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So Joseph, if someone isn't familiar with Pando electric, can you share a little bit more
about what you guys do and, kind of the realm you guys work in.

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That's a great question.

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We make socket -based EV charging systems that have been specifically designed for multi
-tenant facilities like apartments and condos.

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We found that that was a huge market that's being kind of ignored.

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And we wanted to be able to bring affordable charging solutions to that market so that
people who live there can enjoy driving electric vehicles just as much as everybody else

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does.

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Yeah, I think that's really a big challenge right now for the EV adoption.

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I think there's still a long ways to go.

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But as everyone kind of talks about in the news, we're obviously kind of going past that
first adoption wave into the more of the mainstream.

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And there's a lot of people who want to get an EV, but may have challenges about plugging
in at home if they are renting and stuff like that.

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So I think that's why I was so interested to speak with you today.

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I know there's a few different things you guys are doing.

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Especially with partnership.

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So I know when we were talking about this beforehand It was one of the things you want to
talk about.

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So maybe let's just kick it off there and Explore that partnership you're working on with
Peninsula clean energy and can I go from there for the conversation?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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So Peninsula Clean Energy is a clean energy provider here in the San Francisco Bay Area.

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They're based out of San Mateo County.

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They are actually partnering with a large number of EV charging providers, not just
Pandoelectric.

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But the thing that they really did, which was very unique, was that they added in

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EV charging outlets to their incentive program.

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And that has made an absolute world of difference for EV drivers, multifamily property
owners, and renters alike.

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The reason it's so important is that when you substitute in an outlet over traditional EV
charging station, you actually are able to drop the upfront costs pretty significantly.

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So like at Pando Electric, typically we see around a 70 % drop in costs.

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just by switching over to one of our outlets rather than a traditional system.

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And the reason that we thought that this was such a great program, not only because we
obviously get the incentive funds, but because it actually opens up something that was

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kind of denied to a lot of apartment renters and apartment owners, which was the simple
fact of charging from an outlet.

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And we found that most people who own an EV charge from an outlet anyway.

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And so by forcing the apartments to have like these more complicated EV charging systems,

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it wasn't actually very equitable for the EV driver themselves.

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Now we're able to bring in a charging solution that kind of fits for just about everybody.

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And so that's really the key thing here with Peninsula Clean Energy.

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And now it's being, that particular program is being replicated across the Bay Area
through a lot of different clean energy programs.

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And we're also starting to see it trickle down into Southern California as well.

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That's great.

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So when you say outlets, are we talking about level one level two?

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Does it just kind of depend on the actual installation?

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Yeah, so very good question.

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Pando Electric makes the only 240 volt, 40 amp level two charging outlet.

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But that doesn't mean that there aren't other outlet manufacturers out there who are doing
lower power level two, 20 amp level two outlets, or even level one outlets.

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So you do have a wider range, but we currently are the only ones that are doing the full
scale level two solution.

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That's great.

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so looking at Peninsula clean energies partnership, what, what are some of the kind of
things that you going into it probably had some ideas of what it'd be.

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And then were there any things in particular that kind of coming out of that, that really
stood out to you and some big takeaways.

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I think the biggest takeaway that I had was just the forward thinking process of the group
of people who designed that system within Peninsula Clean Energy.

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They really took a wide view of what was happening within the electric vehicle market
rather than just copy paste what everybody else was doing.

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And so they took a little bit of a risk there because especially at that time, I don't
think that there was many EV charging outlet suppliers in the marketplace.

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Pandoelectric certainly didn't exist yet, but now it's starting to grow and become more of
a widespread thing here.

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So I think that in general is the most surprising is just how forward thinking this whole
thing was.

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Interesting so kind of looking at that project and moving forward What are some of the big
takeaways if someone is listening?

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And they're kind of looking to do something similar with their own project Maybe some of
the things to be aware of as they're going into the planning phase for a project like that

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Yeah, I think the biggest thing is efficiency and it's more or less the efficiency of how
that incentive money is being spent.

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And the biggest difference is the costs, right?

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So if you only get a pot of say $10 million, you can install quite a lot of traditional
charging systems with that $10 million.

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Yeah.

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But if you're looking at a 70 % cost reduction, you're also seeing probably a 70 %
increase in the number of charging stations that you can supply by just switching from

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traditional charging systems over to outlet -based charging systems.

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And that doesn't mean that the properties themselves don't get to choose anymore because
there's still incentive money for those traditional systems.

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So if they really wanted to, they could go put in, you know, very expensive, you know,
level two charging system because that's what they want.

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However, if they went with the outlets, they are just going to be a lot more.

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So they're covering a lot more of their spaces.

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And that's something that's desperately needed out here in the Bay Area.

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We're rapidly approaching 40 percent of new vehicle sales as EV.

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So they're needed to be.

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some kind of a shift in policy in order to meet the needs of the growing number of EV
drivers here.

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for sure.

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And so for someone listening, I know we've talked a little bit about this, but you're
talking about 70 % price reduction in that example.

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How is that achieved?

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That's the $48 ,000 question, isn't it?

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Yeah, so there's a lot of different ways.

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Number one is the hardware cost straight out of the gate, right?

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Pandoelectric costs $499.

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That's $499, right?

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Like if you look at a comparable, I don't want to name names because I'm not that guy, but
there are some systems out there, some of the biggest providers, you're looking at five,

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six, seven, $8 ,000 for the same output of the station.

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So right away you're looking at a pretty dramatic cost.

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Now on the back end of that is the infrastructure side.

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So traditional systems have to do what's called a home run from the charging station back
to the panel.

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That means you have to run your conduit from the station all the way back to the
electrical panel.

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With a outlet -based system, you can actually daisy chain them together.

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So instead of running each one individually back to the panel, you can daisy chain them
together and then just run one back to the panel.

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So that's another way of reducing the infrastructure costs.

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You're cutting down a lot.

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copper wiring that's going in and know, six and eight gauge wire is relatively expensive
and unfortunately copper prices keep going up.

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So being able to reduce those costs brings it down more.

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And then on top of that, if you leverage a power management system, similar to what
Pandoelectric is doing, you're able to actually install more stations on infrastructure

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that could not support it.

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So you're cutting out more infrastructure again, which...

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again reduces the cost.

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So when you combine all of those factors together, that's how you're getting that 70 %
cost reduction.

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Yeah, that's great.

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mean, just with what you're talking about, sounds like a big part of that 70 % reduction,
I'm sure, is also in the labor side of it, from having to run much less conduit and then

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also the panel upgrades.

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Is there anything else from the labor side that your technology really helps save with?

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You hit the nail on the head.

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It's the labor side of, know, if you have a straight line conduit run, that's the easiest
you're going to get.

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And that's pretty rare.

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Most of time you have to bend it around a wall or something.

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And if you've ever handled, you know, six gauge copper wire, it's not something that's
super malleable.

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It's going to take a little bit of time and a lot of strength to bend it into the correct
shape to get it around a corner.

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And if you have to do like a zigzag pattern through, you know, a complicated garage zip,
that can actually add quite a lot of

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additional labor costs to a job that may be pretty simple.

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Now with daisy chaining these together, is there a limit to how many you can do at one
installation or is it kind of also determining on what maybe the panel is going into is?

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Yeah, technically there's no limit, but you don't want to daisy chain like 100 together.

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That would be very efficient.

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So there's like an efficiency balance that you need to kind of come to at Pandoelectric.

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We don't do any more than five on a single chain.

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And the reason is you can't have all of those pulling all at the same time.

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So you're to have to shut a few of them off and come up and bring a few of them online.

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And that's what the power management is designed to do to balance that load out.

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So you're not

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blowing the breaker.

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So you don't want to go crazy with it.

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So if you tie it back to a 40 amp breaker and you have a hundred of these on there, you
you're getting basically no energy anyway.

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So you want to be able to balance that correctly so that every single vehicle that's
attached to that chain is going to get a full charge by morning.

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That's great, it sounds like there's also a very large kind of software layer to this
component to make a lot of this work, especially when the way you're talking about it,

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plugging into existing panels and avoiding those upgrades.

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Yeah, there's that aspect of the software, the power management aspect.

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And then there's also actually the more complicated one is the billing and reimbursement
services.

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This is something that a lot of companies have always struggled with.

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they're constantly, it's not because of the ideas being bad, it's actually the regulations
not really matching up with the current technologies or being vetted correctly.

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So, and on top of that, every state's different, but we have a built -in commercial grade
meter into each one of our outlets.

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that's monitoring and tracking all of the energy that's used, and it's billing each
individual driver for their usage.

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So you have to actually be able to tie individual sessions to individual drivers, and then
be able to accurately bill them, and then reimburse the property for the energy that's

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used.

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So as an EV driver, how would that work?

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Do I pull up and then it's kind of, I swipe a card or what?

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sounds like it's kind of a little more going on in the back end than that.

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Yeah, so it depends on the provider.

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So with Pando Electric, you're going to come in, you'll have a mobile app that you'll come
and scan our QR code that initiates a little bit of a Bluetooth handshake.

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And then you can start your charging session.

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So it just activates the outlet.

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The outlet says, okay, I can provide you energy now.

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And then because you've activated it through your phone, it shares a special code that
knows that you are the EV driver that's using the station at that time.

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And so that's how it's accruing all of the energy.

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Now there's other systems out there.

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Some companies use just a credit card system.

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Some companies use, you know, an NFC card.

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But we found that the easiest way is to just use your phone and scan the QR code.

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Gotcha.

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are you seeing, mean, I can imagine this is the probably most common is people are
charging for these installations, but I'm just kind of curious if you've seen any

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apartments or kind of installations where they almost baked that into the price of the
rental and just say, Hey, you get free charging, but really it's, and it just simplifies

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the whole kind of a billing part of it.

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A lot of apartments do that initially.

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In fact, a lot of our business right now is to go into apartments and replace the quote
unquote dumb outlets that they've installed because when they started doing that, they

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didn't really account for how much energy electric vehicles actually use.

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And all of a sudden their energy bills started to skyrocket and they couldn't figure out
why until we come on and we say, well.

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you're just using these outlets, EVs use a huge amount of energy every single year.

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Most likely what's happening is it's pushing them into higher energy pricing tiers.

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And so then their energy prices just start spiraling upwards.

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So even if they try to offset that by saying, we're gonna charge you another $100, $200 a
month for your rent, that might not actually cover your actual energy costs because it

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pushes you into a higher tier, your energy rates go up, and then it's just a spiraling.

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So being able to put in like a power management system that stops charging before it gets
over that tiered threshold and then just pushes it off into lower pricing tiers, that's

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how you're able to kind of as a property owner, protect yourself from that situation.

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And so you do need to have like a smart solution in place to prevent that from happening.

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Now, do you get around a lot of that by like time of use tiers or is it also just
depending on the utility, there's just total volume of electricity being used that does

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kind of push some of these apartments up?

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Great question.

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It really depends on your area.

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I have seen places that do both.

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So it's more common out here in California, especially commercial properties.

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They do have time of use that goes into it, but then they also have tiered pricing based
on volume.

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And because multifamily housing is technically classified as commercial, that is something
that they have to be very mindful of.

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Interesting.

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Okay.

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Well, let's talk a little bit more about kind of the challenges and solutions that
Pandoelectric provides in multifamily since you brought that up.

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So I think probably a lot of our listeners are probably in single family or like condos,
but let's kind of maybe unwrap and take a little step back and just kind of talk about the

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use case for Pandoelectric in multifamily and how that works just for level two in
general.

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And then we can kind of talk a little bit more about the challenges and

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some of the solutions you guys provide for that.

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Absolutely.

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So I think one of the biggest things that you have to take into account when you're
looking at a multifamily housing is

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there's a delicate balance going on within that community on whose needs you need to
adhere to.

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So the EV drivers, they just want access to energy and they wanna be able to have that
access anytime day or night so that they have the peace of mind when they come home,

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there's going to be an EV charger there that's open and ready and working for them.

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The community at large,

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They want to have equal access for everyone.

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So they don't want some people getting special access or having to, or being able to just
park their car all day and night in the one EV charging spot.

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They want everybody to have the same access.

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00:16:24,138 --> 00:16:32,521
And then the property owner, they have the most complicated kind of need, which is A, they
don't want to be the ones paying for your electricity.

199
00:16:32,962 --> 00:16:37,414
I always bring this up and Mike, would you expect your landlord to fill up your car with
gas?

200
00:16:37,414 --> 00:16:38,904
And the answer is always no.

201
00:16:38,992 --> 00:16:43,434
And so, you know, that same problem, they don't want to be filling your car up with energy
either.

202
00:16:43,794 --> 00:16:46,455
So they want to be able to recoup the costs of energy.

203
00:16:46,455 --> 00:16:54,098
And then sometimes they want to make a little bit of return on their investment because of
the infrastructure that they had to put in is rather expensive, even with incentive funds.

204
00:16:54,098 --> 00:16:56,109
Sometimes it gets pretty expensive.

205
00:16:56,109 --> 00:17:00,041
So you have to be able to balance all of those things when you're bringing in a charging
system.

206
00:17:00,041 --> 00:17:07,304
And that's what's made this market particularly difficult, especially on the front end
side of cost.

207
00:17:07,476 --> 00:17:16,036
the front end capital expenditures that you're going to need to bring in EV charging
stations without incentives are often really, really onerous.

208
00:17:16,036 --> 00:17:19,516
When I worked, I was the first hire at Ever Charge.

209
00:17:19,536 --> 00:17:27,096
When I worked there, our upfront costs were on average $4 to $6 ,000 per station
installed.

210
00:17:27,176 --> 00:17:32,036
So if you can think about that, 10 of those is gonna cost you like 50 grand.

211
00:17:32,036 --> 00:17:32,980
And that's...

212
00:17:32,980 --> 00:17:39,030
That's if you have enough power, that's not, know, hey, I've got enough energy, I can add
in 10, $50 ,000 straight away.

213
00:17:39,030 --> 00:17:40,500
Like that's expensive.

214
00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:48,540
So with Pandoelectric, same scenario, we can probably drop that down to like, like one to
1 .5 per station.

215
00:17:48,660 --> 00:17:51,320
So you're seeing like a pretty significant reduction there.

216
00:17:51,320 --> 00:18:01,680
And then the more complicated things get, you know, if they're power limited scenarios,
there's no panel space, those types of scenarios, that's where we start to see those 70%.

217
00:18:02,004 --> 00:18:09,344
deep cuts because we're able to daisy chain, we're able to use our power management system
to install more stations than would have been able to.

218
00:18:09,344 --> 00:18:17,464
So you don't have to bring in, which are the more expensive things, new transformers, new
panels, which are, you know, 20, 30, $50 ,000 just for the one thing.

219
00:18:17,464 --> 00:18:25,624
So that's how you're really getting to make the cost more comparative to EV charging at a
single family home.

220
00:18:26,552 --> 00:18:26,812
Yeah.

221
00:18:26,812 --> 00:18:37,089
So that's kind of an interesting thing too, is obviously, what you're kind of talking
about is not just going into multifamily home, but it is kind of upgrading a multifamily

222
00:18:37,089 --> 00:18:37,730
home.

223
00:18:37,730 --> 00:18:48,407
So can you explain maybe some of the challenges and do you see that this is usually done
when maybe there's being, some sort of like up, like retrofitting an older building that

224
00:18:48,407 --> 00:18:56,122
that's when they start looking at kind of these updates or what is usually kind of, in
your experience, what motivates

225
00:18:56,231 --> 00:18:59,941
a building owner to kind of bring you guys into this process.

226
00:19:00,754 --> 00:19:10,267
I think the first thing is usually at this point in the life cycle of Pando Electric,
we're brought in when the traditional systems are still too expensive.

227
00:19:10,267 --> 00:19:20,480
So a lot of our properties that we get today are people who've already looked around at
your charge points, your ever charges, know, a blank and they're just, this is still too

228
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:21,450
expensive.

229
00:19:21,450 --> 00:19:23,901
So we need something a little bit more cost effective.

230
00:19:23,901 --> 00:19:25,031
They call us.

231
00:19:25,031 --> 00:19:27,272
That's typically what we're seeing right now.

232
00:19:27,380 --> 00:19:31,522
The other big issue here is that every single property is completely different.

233
00:19:31,522 --> 00:19:34,744
So people often ask us, why can't you just give me a general quote?

234
00:19:34,744 --> 00:19:39,356
And I'm like, well, it's pretty difficult because I don't know your pack, your panel
situation.

235
00:19:39,356 --> 00:19:42,728
I don't really know how old your electrical infrastructure is.

236
00:19:42,728 --> 00:19:45,099
I don't know how much power capacity you have.

237
00:19:45,099 --> 00:19:47,160
I don't know what the garage layout is.

238
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:48,121
So I don't know the runs.

239
00:19:48,121 --> 00:19:50,302
Like it just keeps going and going and going.

240
00:19:50,302 --> 00:19:56,070
So you really can't understand what's happening there until you get boots on the ground
and you go there and look.

241
00:19:56,070 --> 00:19:59,954
at the panel, at the situation, and then you can give a more realistic quote.

242
00:19:59,954 --> 00:20:07,762
So that's kind of still one of those things where people always ask and it's like, I can't
tell you, I don't know until I go there and see it myself.

243
00:20:07,874 --> 00:20:08,834
Right.

244
00:20:08,975 --> 00:20:11,836
Now that that's interesting you bring that up because that was very similar to the issues.

245
00:20:11,836 --> 00:20:21,003
Like when I worked in the solar industry, that people always want this kind of flat number
and you could kind of say, yeah, it's this, but it could be plus or minus a hundred

246
00:20:21,003 --> 00:20:22,044
percent.

247
00:20:22,985 --> 00:20:27,488
Either we can't do it or it could be way more expensive, but that is kind of interesting.

248
00:20:27,488 --> 00:20:36,674
So doing these upgrades and kind of these improvements to the buildings, how does, is it.

249
00:20:36,674 --> 00:20:40,198
And I think the reason I'm asking is you brought up some of those other competitors.

250
00:20:40,198 --> 00:20:44,322
Some of them approach it as you buy it, you own it, you maintain it.

251
00:20:44,322 --> 00:20:54,131
Does Pando Electric kind of, once they've done the installation, is it the property owner
or do you guys offer any sort of kind of maintenance plan or stuff like that to, cause I

252
00:20:54,131 --> 00:21:01,258
know a lot of EV chargers we've run into have definitely had over their lifespan issues
where they get broken and then they're kind of never fixed again.

253
00:21:01,874 --> 00:21:10,608
Yeah, that's actually one of the biggest selling points that we have as a company is the
fact that because it's an outlet, it basically carries no maintenance.

254
00:21:10,608 --> 00:21:12,959
I always ask people, Mike, do you ever maintain an outlet?

255
00:21:12,959 --> 00:21:14,820
Do you ever sit there and be like, no, my outlet broke?

256
00:21:14,820 --> 00:21:16,581
Like it's pretty rare.

257
00:21:17,111 --> 00:21:25,516
so, and for us, because the hard, the nature of our hardware is so affordable, you know,
if it does actually break and the only time that ever happens, if someone came in and

258
00:21:25,516 --> 00:21:26,836
bashed it with a hammer.

259
00:21:26,836 --> 00:21:28,506
It's actually pretty easy fix for us.

260
00:21:28,506 --> 00:21:29,886
can just ship out a new unit.

261
00:21:29,886 --> 00:21:30,795
It's $500.

262
00:21:30,795 --> 00:21:32,656
It goes on the wall the next day.

263
00:21:32,656 --> 00:21:34,456
You know, pretty simple.

264
00:21:34,456 --> 00:21:39,716
So one of our biggest selling points to property owners is the fact that you're not going
to have to maintain these.

265
00:21:39,716 --> 00:21:46,766
You don't have to worry about someone coming in and vandalizing and like snipping cables
to steal it for the copper because there is no cable.

266
00:21:46,766 --> 00:21:48,356
It's just an outlet.

267
00:21:48,436 --> 00:21:56,340
So those are the types of things that we've actually like built into the product itself to
make sure that there is a long -term play.

268
00:21:56,340 --> 00:22:00,840
The other thing is that we've tested these outlets to last 5 ,000 cycles.

269
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:07,530
So under our current usage, that actually means it'll last 40 years before you'll need to
replace it.

270
00:22:07,530 --> 00:22:13,300
So you've got time to figure out a new solution in the meantime.

271
00:22:13,700 --> 00:22:14,700
Yeah.

272
00:22:14,718 --> 00:22:15,358
No, that's great.

273
00:22:15,358 --> 00:22:23,365
And so that's really interesting because what the model you guys are kind of following is
actually more of what you see in Europe.

274
00:22:23,946 --> 00:22:25,857
And I think it does make a lot of sense.

275
00:22:25,857 --> 00:22:34,534
And it is that kind of intentional when you were kind of looking at the research of
essentially you bring your own cable and then that kind of minimizes some of the

276
00:22:35,318 --> 00:22:40,630
ongoing maintenance like you're talking about and then also just kind of puts the
responsibility on the actual EV owner.

277
00:22:41,042 --> 00:22:45,304
I think that was more of like a bonus perspective of the European model.

278
00:22:45,304 --> 00:22:47,956
We didn't go out to intentionally copy that model.

279
00:22:47,956 --> 00:22:53,879
The reason that we made outlets is we actually went and looked at what single family
homeowners are doing.

280
00:22:54,079 --> 00:23:01,224
single, most single family homeowners are going in and just putting an outlet in or using
an outlet that's already there to charge their vehicle.

281
00:23:01,224 --> 00:23:05,596
And so it just boiled down to a simple equity problem, right?

282
00:23:05,596 --> 00:23:09,528
Like if we want people to all enjoy EVs the same way,

283
00:23:09,682 --> 00:23:20,271
they should be able to charge from a simple outlet rather than having to rely on these
very complicated, complex charging systems that we've seen so many articles and they're

284
00:23:20,271 --> 00:23:21,342
all more or less true.

285
00:23:21,342 --> 00:23:24,184
know people like, it's all FUD, it's all lies.

286
00:23:24,184 --> 00:23:24,724
It's true.

287
00:23:24,724 --> 00:23:26,806
Like some of these charging stations, do break.

288
00:23:26,806 --> 00:23:32,030
They do just sit there for weeks and weeks, maybe months on end before they're actually
fixed.

289
00:23:32,030 --> 00:23:33,582
And that's a big problem.

290
00:23:33,582 --> 00:23:34,392
you...

291
00:23:34,738 --> 00:23:41,334
went and rented an apartment because you're like, like the area, you like the apartment
and hey, big bonus, it has an EV charging station.

292
00:23:41,334 --> 00:23:46,359
And then the first day you get in there, breaks down and then for months and months on
end, it's just never working.

293
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,541
That's gotta be really frustrating.

294
00:23:48,541 --> 00:23:54,507
And so we wanted to be able to resolve that issue and the best way to resolve those issues
is to not go more complicated.

295
00:23:54,507 --> 00:23:58,911
It's actually go more simple and bring in something that's just a simple outlet.

296
00:23:58,911 --> 00:24:00,192
You plug in.

297
00:24:00,340 --> 00:24:03,100
If anything were to break, we can just replace it real quick.

298
00:24:03,100 --> 00:24:06,130
Like everything should happen within 24 hours is kind of one of our models.

299
00:24:06,130 --> 00:24:10,120
So if your cable breaks, you can go to Amazon and get one shipped overnight.

300
00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:12,820
If our station breaks for whatever reason, we'll replace it.

301
00:24:12,820 --> 00:24:13,220
No problem.

302
00:24:13,220 --> 00:24:13,900
Just give us a call.

303
00:24:13,900 --> 00:24:16,200
We'll send a new one out and you can swap it out yourself.

304
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:25,244
Like that's kind of where we're trying to get to, to bring in a more equitable solution so
that everybody's having more or less a shared experience on how the EVs work.

305
00:24:25,244 --> 00:24:27,676
similar to a gas car, everybody knows they go to the gas station.

306
00:24:27,676 --> 00:24:31,009
It's not like some people have to go to a special gas station, right?

307
00:24:31,009 --> 00:24:32,260
It's everyone goes to the same place.

308
00:24:32,260 --> 00:24:35,632
So it's the same kind of conundrum that we're trying to solve for.

309
00:24:36,570 --> 00:24:44,310
So for the actual outlet does and my apologies for not checking this previously, but you
said it's a 240 volt 40 amp.

310
00:24:44,310 --> 00:24:50,670
So does that mean it's a 1450 outlet that they, the EV driver actually plugs into?

311
00:24:50,804 --> 00:24:53,244
Yeah, it's a NEMA 1450 plug.

312
00:24:53,244 --> 00:24:59,744
The reason we went with that was it's obviously it's the most common plug type for level
two charging.

313
00:24:59,744 --> 00:25:02,904
It's more or less a universal standard at this point.

314
00:25:02,904 --> 00:25:09,464
And then on top of that, something that often gets forgotten about is the NEMA standard
has been around for over a hundred years.

315
00:25:09,464 --> 00:25:11,284
It's not going anywhere.

316
00:25:11,284 --> 00:25:20,038
And the reason I bring that up is because we've already seen a shift in connector type
from J7072 to now we're going to an ACS.

317
00:25:20,038 --> 00:25:22,209
And we don't know what's going to happen in there.

318
00:25:22,209 --> 00:25:25,951
We're seeing a transition, but some of the automakers aren't really moving.

319
00:25:25,951 --> 00:25:32,485
And so it is causing a bit of a headache for people who are purchasing EV charging
stations.

320
00:25:32,485 --> 00:25:34,216
Like, well, which one should I go with?

321
00:25:34,216 --> 00:25:36,557
Well, if you went with Pandoelectric, it doesn't matter.

322
00:25:36,557 --> 00:25:38,639
We're using a NEMA standard plug.

323
00:25:38,639 --> 00:25:44,422
Most vehicles today come with that option or they come with that charger in their vehicle
on the day they purchase it.

324
00:25:44,422 --> 00:25:48,340
So it's really easy to just keep using the same type plug type rather than

325
00:25:48,340 --> 00:25:51,523
trying to figure out what kind of new connector type is going to come out.

326
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:52,721
No, that's a really good point.

327
00:25:52,721 --> 00:26:03,061
So as the different charger types or it doesn't really matter what kind of EV it is,
excuse me, someone can kind of actually bring the right charging thing for their car and

328
00:26:03,061 --> 00:26:04,972
just make it work pretty quickly.

329
00:26:05,332 --> 00:26:05,592
Right.

330
00:26:05,592 --> 00:26:08,452
And it's, it goes back to that 40 years, right?

331
00:26:08,452 --> 00:26:09,852
So they last 40 years.

332
00:26:09,852 --> 00:26:18,152
So we need something that's also going to be like relevant, relevant in 40 years, not this
connector type is going to shift over to something different.

333
00:26:18,152 --> 00:26:18,692
Right.

334
00:26:18,692 --> 00:26:22,232
And a good example that I always use is like, am a bit of a gym rat.

335
00:26:22,232 --> 00:26:31,552
go to the gym and I always see like the old iPhone docs that you could plug in an iPhone
that, you know, nobody owns that type of iPhone anymore, but they're still on the

336
00:26:31,552 --> 00:26:32,992
treadmill and it makes it useless.

337
00:26:32,992 --> 00:26:34,132
And I'm like, well,

338
00:26:34,132 --> 00:26:35,662
They didn't really think that one through, they?

339
00:26:35,662 --> 00:26:41,732
They could have had a different system to plug in or work with that particular treadmill.

340
00:26:41,732 --> 00:26:43,912
And that's kind of what we're looking at with EV charging.

341
00:26:43,912 --> 00:26:48,492
Like, I don't know what connector type they're going to invent 40 years from now, 30 years
from now, 20 years from now.

342
00:26:48,492 --> 00:26:49,492
I don't know.

343
00:26:49,492 --> 00:26:51,792
Maybe Elon's going to come up with something crazy and new.

344
00:26:51,792 --> 00:26:54,582
But for us, it doesn't matter, right?

345
00:26:54,582 --> 00:26:58,032
Like, if it's a NEMA standard plug, that's not going to go anywhere.

346
00:26:58,032 --> 00:27:02,772
And until wireless charging becomes more viable, which maybe.

347
00:27:02,772 --> 00:27:13,086
in the next 10, 15, 20 years, it's still just, this is the best solution that you have to
put into any kind of a building, not just an apartment, but also your home.

348
00:27:13,914 --> 00:27:26,374
Yes, that is kind of interesting bringing up the outlet, especially the 14 NEMA 1450
specifically, because we have seen in the case of some single family homes, people plug it

349
00:27:26,374 --> 00:27:33,794
into that of which one they have and that those outlets were really never designed for
repeated usage.

350
00:27:33,794 --> 00:27:37,264
They're usually designed for like once every 10 years or something.

351
00:27:37,264 --> 00:27:42,322
So many plugs and unplugs their dryer and then

352
00:27:42,618 --> 00:27:43,658
That's kind what it's for.

353
00:27:43,658 --> 00:27:47,018
Whereas like daily usage, you can see a lot of damage for those.

354
00:27:47,018 --> 00:27:55,838
And I, I'm sure you guys have kind of figured that out, but I was just kind of curious in
that kind of design when you're going through that, like what, are there any things that

355
00:27:55,838 --> 00:28:04,658
are just kind of interesting that stood out when you were building it to be kind of made
for that 40 year lifestyle or what you guys did to really make sure that, it wouldn't have

356
00:28:04,658 --> 00:28:08,690
those issues like some of the 1450 outlets are at home.

357
00:28:08,774 --> 00:28:09,744
Right.

358
00:28:09,825 --> 00:28:21,653
So that's, it's, it's almost an uninteresting answer because the only way you test that is
you make a machine that just plugs in and unplugs a charger endlessly until the socket

359
00:28:21,653 --> 00:28:22,593
breaks.

360
00:28:24,395 --> 00:28:25,275
yep.

361
00:28:25,996 --> 00:28:29,678
I have a video of a robot just in and out, in and out, in and out for hours.

362
00:28:29,678 --> 00:28:36,923
And that's what it's doing until the, until the, we pull it off the wall and say, look, it
broke at, you know, X number of cycles.

363
00:28:36,923 --> 00:28:38,484
And that's all you're doing.

364
00:28:38,484 --> 00:28:39,275
But you are correct.

365
00:28:39,275 --> 00:28:41,316
Like if you went and said, I'm just going to solve this on my own.

366
00:28:41,316 --> 00:28:44,108
I'm going to go down to the Home Depot and just buy a dryer plug.

367
00:28:44,108 --> 00:28:47,791
That'll work if you leave your charger just plugged in forever.

368
00:28:47,791 --> 00:28:49,211
You're good to go.

369
00:28:49,492 --> 00:28:51,133
Well, actually, I take that back.

370
00:28:51,133 --> 00:28:59,338
You want to buy an industrial plug for that because you need clamp force for the downforce
because charger cables are heavy.

371
00:28:59,338 --> 00:29:05,903
And so if that's sitting there hanging, pulling on that outlet for a decade, it's going to
wear out the connector just the same.

372
00:29:06,243 --> 00:29:07,658
So yeah.

373
00:29:07,658 --> 00:29:11,278
is people go to Home Depot and they'll be the one that like, this outlet's three bucks.

374
00:29:11,278 --> 00:29:12,208
I want 30 bucks.

375
00:29:12,208 --> 00:29:15,018
Why would I buy pay for 30 bucks?

376
00:29:15,018 --> 00:29:16,208
It's exactly the same.

377
00:29:16,208 --> 00:29:16,738
Right.

378
00:29:16,738 --> 00:29:24,038
And I think unfortunately there have definitely been some lessons learned the hard way
about that, but that there's a big reason for that discrepancy, even though it's not in

379
00:29:24,038 --> 00:29:26,818
the scheme of things, that huge of a price difference.

380
00:29:27,154 --> 00:29:27,464
Right.

381
00:29:27,464 --> 00:29:34,718
And I think that's one of those things are I've seen it a bunch with a lot of my friends
who have convinced to buy EVs and they have their garage set up.

382
00:29:34,718 --> 00:29:44,093
go in and I'm like, my God, like you can't, like you can't, have, some very underrated
extension cord that's going to the wall and you can feel it.

383
00:29:44,093 --> 00:29:44,603
It's hot.

384
00:29:44,603 --> 00:29:48,595
And I'm like, I'm surprised your house didn't burn down because you shouldn't be doing
this.

385
00:29:48,976 --> 00:29:51,697
Like those types of situations people do need to be aware of.

386
00:29:51,697 --> 00:29:53,929
think it's more just general public education.

387
00:29:53,929 --> 00:29:56,820
And which is why, like, I love this podcast.

388
00:29:56,916 --> 00:29:58,522
to help educate people.

389
00:29:58,522 --> 00:29:59,182
Yeah, thank you.

390
00:29:59,182 --> 00:30:00,152
No, it's, actually funny.

391
00:30:00,152 --> 00:30:07,722
You, I haven't shared this with anyone yet, but I mean, to post something about this,
we're actually, I was living in bend, Oregon, but we just recently moved.

392
00:30:07,722 --> 00:30:19,182
And so we're in a rental before we, find something we kind of went long -term in, hood
river, Oregon, which is kind of a little windsurfing town and the rental we're in and it

393
00:30:19,182 --> 00:30:21,722
has a two car garage, but it doesn't have a two 40 or anything.

394
00:30:21,722 --> 00:30:23,578
It's literally a wall outlet.

395
00:30:23,578 --> 00:30:35,358
120 wall outlet so I've been charging our model Y that way and It seemed like the
electrical was fine, but I was just always a little like a little skeptical it's a little

396
00:30:35,358 --> 00:30:48,038
bit of an older house and I never seen this happen before but I go in one morning and on
the EVSE there's essentially I'll just be kind of glowing green where it's like this the

397
00:30:48,038 --> 00:30:52,754
Tesla Name and it just goes like from left to right kind of green thing

398
00:30:52,794 --> 00:30:57,294
And this time the T is red, it kept glowing green.

399
00:30:57,294 --> 00:30:58,724
was like, that's really bizarre.

400
00:30:58,724 --> 00:30:59,914
What, is going on?

401
00:30:59,914 --> 00:31:10,294
And when I got in the car, it had said that the, EVSE had detected that the, Outlet was
getting warm.

402
00:31:10,294 --> 00:31:17,414
And so it brought it down from 12 amps down to six amps and it's been charging at a measly
six amps on 120.

403
00:31:17,414 --> 00:31:20,834
So it's like pretty much barely half a kilowatt.

404
00:31:20,922 --> 00:31:24,496
And obviously not ideal, but I just thought that was really cool.

405
00:31:24,496 --> 00:31:33,874
And I'd never seen one be, have a, mean, it kind of makes sense for them to have a heat
sensor, but that was just something that happened to me recently that I thought was pretty

406
00:31:33,874 --> 00:31:42,982
funny, but just to exactly that, like how many times did something have to go wrong before
they realized this would be a good thing to have and to design it this way.

407
00:31:42,982 --> 00:31:47,606
And obviously a software layer is so important in these kinds of things to realize that.

408
00:31:47,828 --> 00:31:57,348
Why 100 % and I think that's kind of why even with all the angst around what's happening
with Tesla that's why Teslas are still the best EVs.

409
00:31:57,348 --> 00:32:01,148
They've thought through all of these problems already.

410
00:32:01,148 --> 00:32:06,848
It's not something that they're like, shoot, like we have to now make a thing to add that
in.

411
00:32:06,848 --> 00:32:07,978
It's already done, right?

412
00:32:07,978 --> 00:32:11,918
If you had like a Ford Mach -E, I don't know if that feature exists.

413
00:32:11,918 --> 00:32:15,368
I don't know if it's on like any of the Hyundai, like I don't know.

414
00:32:15,368 --> 00:32:25,031
But I know for a fact that Tesla's got that stuff already baked in and that's why they sit
at the top of the EV chain because there is no competitor right now for what they're

415
00:32:25,031 --> 00:32:25,752
doing.

416
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:34,227
Well, I mean, and I think you could say this, not just at them, but maybe more at the
startups too is like inherently, even if you're a smaller company, if you have engineers

417
00:32:34,227 --> 00:32:44,676
focused on one kind of product style versus that and hybrids and, combustion engine, does
really help you keep focused on the mission to think about these things instead of being

418
00:32:44,676 --> 00:32:52,382
kind of, and obviously their engineers are focused on one product, not really hop around a
lot, but it's just kind of something throughout their complete supply chain.

419
00:32:52,382 --> 00:32:54,954
They're thinking about dealing with, which it's.

420
00:32:55,490 --> 00:32:58,673
I think those other companies will get there, it's just, you're right.

421
00:32:58,673 --> 00:33:07,421
It's just interesting to see like every now and then I just see something where it's so
easy to hear the news like, all these competitors are catching up and doing something.

422
00:33:07,582 --> 00:33:16,971
But then you look at just the EV focus, like startup companies and realize just being
focused on that one product style and try to, instead of trying to do multiple styles,

423
00:33:17,072 --> 00:33:19,473
vehicles really does give you a leg up.

424
00:33:19,924 --> 00:33:21,024
Yeah, 100%.

425
00:33:21,024 --> 00:33:33,324
I think a lot of the auto, the old school auto OEMs are really doing themselves a
disservice by not just going full force into EVs and saying, okay, like, we're just going

426
00:33:33,324 --> 00:33:39,664
to start warehousing people over on this EV side, which you're starting to see more and
more of like Ford is being very,

427
00:33:39,836 --> 00:33:41,837
forward thinking on what they're doing.

428
00:33:41,918 --> 00:33:50,444
But there's a lot of catch up that has to occur before they even gonna come to match Tesla
or any other or Rivian or anything like that.

429
00:33:50,444 --> 00:33:52,825
So there's a lot of catch up time that's gonna happen.

430
00:33:52,825 --> 00:33:58,289
The one thing that I'll give the OEMs is that they know how to manufacture vehicles
really, really well.

431
00:33:58,549 --> 00:34:07,346
So that's their like major, we can produce, you know, millions of these things, and
they're all gonna be of similar quality while a lot of the startups are still struggling

432
00:34:07,346 --> 00:34:08,111
through that.

433
00:34:08,111 --> 00:34:09,972
for sure.

434
00:34:09,972 --> 00:34:10,913
It was really interesting.

435
00:34:10,913 --> 00:34:16,027
I was at the Electrify Expo actually this past weekend in San Francisco.

436
00:34:16,027 --> 00:34:21,281
And it was just really interesting to see the number of automakers there.

437
00:34:21,562 --> 00:34:25,533
And kind of just naturally where, mean, obviously Tesla had a cyber truck there.

438
00:34:25,533 --> 00:34:31,705
So I think that had some of the interests and obviously they're made in the Bay, or at
least most of their vehicles.

439
00:34:31,705 --> 00:34:36,067
And so it was just wild to see like how long the lines were to look at the Tesla.

440
00:34:36,067 --> 00:34:37,117
was really a Tesla and Rivian.

441
00:34:37,117 --> 00:34:39,747
And then there were some other automakers there's out felt.

442
00:34:40,238 --> 00:34:41,088
but.

443
00:34:41,268 --> 00:34:47,640
So I guess one of the things is we're talking obviously about electric vehicles and we
were kind of mentioning there's other types of vehicles.

444
00:34:47,650 --> 00:34:57,446
Is there anything to be aware of or any issue that, let's say I have a plug -in hybrid,
I'd imagine that could just work just as easily with this as it would be kind of like for

445
00:34:57,446 --> 00:35:02,188
those people who are trying to take the leap and not completely convinced of going fully
electric yet.

446
00:35:02,836 --> 00:35:07,696
Yeah, anything can get plugged into that outlet as long as it an EMA 1450 plug.

447
00:35:07,956 --> 00:35:10,656
So you can even use an adapter as well.

448
00:35:10,656 --> 00:35:12,936
So that's really not much of an issue.

449
00:35:12,936 --> 00:35:17,776
My biggest issue with the plug -in hybrid owners is a lot of them don't plug them in at
all.

450
00:35:19,536 --> 00:35:29,796
So, yeah, so that would be my one thing is that I'm not too worried about that because it
seems like they don't care about the plug -in aspect of it, which I don't know why they

451
00:35:29,796 --> 00:35:33,036
bought the vehicle in the first place then, but to each their own.

452
00:35:33,934 --> 00:35:34,635
No, for sure.

453
00:35:34,635 --> 00:35:44,644
So, we, we've obviously been pretty focused on what you guys are doing and it's, it is
great to see on, especially in the multifamily area, but I'm kind of curious.

454
00:35:45,325 --> 00:35:46,596
I take it you have an electric vehicle.

455
00:35:46,596 --> 00:35:50,569
I guess we haven't clarified that or what, what, what are you driving currently?

456
00:35:50,900 --> 00:35:55,004
So I live in San Francisco, and I have street parking.

457
00:35:55,004 --> 00:35:56,725
So I actually don't have a car.

458
00:35:56,725 --> 00:36:01,489
I drive an electric scooter, like a Vespa, that I get around.

459
00:36:01,489 --> 00:36:03,791
So it has a removable battery.

460
00:36:03,791 --> 00:36:05,753
So I just bring it in the house and charge it.

461
00:36:05,753 --> 00:36:07,713
It's actually charging right now.

462
00:36:07,915 --> 00:36:15,721
And the nice thing about that is to get around San Francisco on a scooter is vastly
superior than a car or any other method of transit.

463
00:36:16,162 --> 00:36:17,873
California lets you do lane splitting.

464
00:36:17,873 --> 00:36:18,856
so it's...

465
00:36:18,856 --> 00:36:22,622
quite fun during rush hour to just cut straight to the front of the line.

466
00:36:23,305 --> 00:36:31,479
But in the future, I'll probably, if I end up moving, of course, I'll probably end up with
a more normal style EV.

467
00:36:32,323 --> 00:36:32,533
Yeah.

468
00:36:32,533 --> 00:36:33,965
No, I mean, I totally get that.

469
00:36:33,965 --> 00:36:36,057
I lived in the Bay area for a while.

470
00:36:36,057 --> 00:36:38,760
was mostly down Palo Alto where it's still a little more suburban.

471
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:46,539
It's easier to have a car, but like being in San Francisco proper, especially with off
street parking, mean, that's about as good of a situation as you can have.

472
00:36:46,539 --> 00:36:53,516
And it's like that in Manhattan or kind some of the cities where it's almost more of a
pain in the butt to have a car than a benefit.

473
00:36:54,196 --> 00:36:58,776
Yeah, well not only that, my other concern was vandalism.

474
00:36:59,316 --> 00:37:09,136
As much as I don't want to like bring up the stereotype of the city, there was a period of
time, it seems to be settled down now, but there was a pretty significant period of time

475
00:37:09,136 --> 00:37:15,216
where if you left anything in your car, anything, the windows are going to be smashed.

476
00:37:15,576 --> 00:37:19,516
And so I'm I don't want to put a $50 ,000 car out of the week.

477
00:37:19,516 --> 00:37:21,156
No, there is not.

478
00:37:22,987 --> 00:37:25,853
So, no, that's great to hear.

479
00:37:25,853 --> 00:37:27,657
So actually, I guess I'm curious about that.

480
00:37:27,657 --> 00:37:29,750
What kind of range does it have?

481
00:37:31,122 --> 00:37:34,912
it says it has 40 miles, but that's a lie.

482
00:37:36,212 --> 00:37:37,442
I'm also a bigger guy.

483
00:37:37,442 --> 00:37:39,142
I'm, six, one and 200 pounds.

484
00:37:39,142 --> 00:37:44,032
So it's, I mean, I'm sure if it was, you know, five, five, 150 pounds, it'd go a lot
further.

485
00:37:44,532 --> 00:37:53,792
but, know, and then the other problem is that it has a definite power loss, to the, to the
motor after like 50 % battery life.

486
00:37:53,952 --> 00:37:58,132
So going up the big Hills here, if I have a hundred percent battery, no problem.

487
00:37:58,132 --> 00:37:59,636
I'll probably cruise in.

488
00:37:59,636 --> 00:38:03,216
But once it goes under 50%, it's actually pretty painful.

489
00:38:03,216 --> 00:38:08,376
Yesterday coming home from the gym, I was going over a hill and I think I was going up
that hill eight miles an hour.

490
00:38:09,196 --> 00:38:11,606
Like the lower it gets, the slower it gets.

491
00:38:11,606 --> 00:38:19,826
So it's kind of one of those situations where like that particular subset of electric
vehicles, they need to boost it up a little bit.

492
00:38:19,826 --> 00:38:29,356
I do see like in warm weather environments, it could be a perfect solution for mobility,
but it's still got a long way to

493
00:38:29,978 --> 00:38:33,158
Well, that's, that, that's interesting.

494
00:38:33,158 --> 00:38:39,878
So is it just plugged into the, just a regular one 20 outlet at home and then just kind of
just charge it overnight then.

495
00:38:39,978 --> 00:38:40,838
Gotcha.

496
00:38:41,478 --> 00:38:49,778
Well, I guess we could talk about level one charging, but I, I, guess I would be kind of
curious about that and your thoughts on just level two charging in general, and maybe some

497
00:38:49,778 --> 00:38:59,320
of the interesting trends you're seeing from kind of, where you are in the company and
also just in the Bay area in general, it's always kind of interesting how.

498
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:05,535
Like you're, you're kind of a perfect example where it's like, people always think of the
Bay being this like, everyone's got electric car and all this stuff.

499
00:39:05,535 --> 00:39:10,138
But once you live there, you definitely realize there's definitely areas where it makes a
lot of sense.

500
00:39:10,258 --> 00:39:20,826
And there can be a lot of challenges and even going, when I was down in the South band,
like going into the city, sometimes it is really hard to not just find parking, but to

501
00:39:20,826 --> 00:39:21,967
even find level two chart.

502
00:39:21,967 --> 00:39:26,070
mean, I, I'm sure that's changed a little bit, but I'd just be kind of curious on your
thoughts around them.

503
00:39:27,538 --> 00:39:31,932
Yeah, I think number one, I'd say that level one is fine.

504
00:39:32,253 --> 00:39:35,796
People tend to be, it's too slow, it'll never work.

505
00:39:35,796 --> 00:39:41,301
And like, you know, it actually gives you, know, just enough to cover your daily driving
needs.

506
00:39:41,301 --> 00:39:47,907
The thing I always tell people is most of us grossly overestimate how much we actually
drive.

507
00:39:47,988 --> 00:39:53,185
We equate time in the car to miles driven, which is definitely not true.

508
00:39:53,185 --> 00:39:53,716
See.

509
00:39:53,716 --> 00:40:00,836
you might be sitting in traffic for an hour and a half, but you probably only went 30
miles and you didn't realize that it just wasn't that far.

510
00:40:01,236 --> 00:40:04,036
number...

511
00:40:04,036 --> 00:40:08,856
Yeah, like that's something that I, even myself, I'm like, my God, I must've been driving
all day today.

512
00:40:08,856 --> 00:40:13,656
It's 70, 80 miles and it's like, no, you only went 40 miles down the road.

513
00:40:13,656 --> 00:40:15,536
Not that far.

514
00:40:15,916 --> 00:40:16,896
That's number one.

515
00:40:16,896 --> 00:40:22,708
I would say number two for the Bay Area, we are seeing a lot more thoughtfulness.

516
00:40:22,708 --> 00:40:24,068
play out here.

517
00:40:24,549 --> 00:40:33,793
I'm seeing like if I use California in general, there's a big split between Northern
California here in the Bay Area and Southern California down in LA San Diego.

518
00:40:33,973 --> 00:40:37,875
And I think it really does boil down to at home charging.

519
00:40:37,995 --> 00:40:41,417
I think up in the Bay Area, there's obviously there's better programs.

520
00:40:41,417 --> 00:40:48,596
We have Peninsular Clean Energy like we spoke about doing the socket based charging as
incentives for multifamily.

521
00:40:48,596 --> 00:40:53,656
And that's having like a huge effect on the number of people being able to get charging at
home.

522
00:40:53,656 --> 00:40:55,236
And I'll use an example.

523
00:40:55,236 --> 00:40:57,636
We just did a project out in Woodland Creek.

524
00:40:57,636 --> 00:41:01,296
It's actually on our website right now at pandoelectric .com.

525
00:41:01,396 --> 00:41:02,796
And we continue to talk about it.

526
00:41:02,796 --> 00:41:04,236
It actually got a lot of press.

527
00:41:04,236 --> 00:41:12,056
We were able to bring in 90 EV charging stations, one for every single unit in a 90 unit
condo.

528
00:41:12,056 --> 00:41:13,816
So everybody gets a charger.

529
00:41:13,816 --> 00:41:17,140
We were able to do that for $405.

530
00:41:17,140 --> 00:41:19,621
first station fully installed.

531
00:41:19,861 --> 00:41:24,422
That means that's all each individual resident had to pay to get a charging station
installed.

532
00:41:24,422 --> 00:41:26,293
That increases the property value, by the way.

533
00:41:26,293 --> 00:41:31,984
So even if they don't have an EV, it increased the property value of their property, of
their condo.

534
00:41:32,004 --> 00:41:36,385
And we were able to do that because of Peninsula Clean Energy and their incentive program.

535
00:41:36,385 --> 00:41:38,036
And so we're seeing like a big difference.

536
00:41:38,036 --> 00:41:45,620
And the thing that I'll, one last thing I'll bring in is that they looked at the most
famous charging supplier, not named Tesla.

537
00:41:45,620 --> 00:41:48,100
I won't name them, you can think of who they are.

538
00:41:48,100 --> 00:41:56,220
They looked at them first and they could bring in eight of those charging stations before
they spent all of the money that we spent.

539
00:41:56,220 --> 00:41:58,800
So we put in 90, they're going to put in eight.

540
00:41:58,800 --> 00:41:59,780
And that's the difference.

541
00:41:59,780 --> 00:42:10,940
And the reason I use the example of California and Northern California versus Southern
California is we're starting to see in Northern California, the public chargers,

542
00:42:10,940 --> 00:42:15,244
specifically the Tesla superchargers are not overburdened.

543
00:42:15,310 --> 00:42:16,191
Yeah.

544
00:42:16,515 --> 00:42:16,900
Yeah.

545
00:42:16,900 --> 00:42:19,921
of the time, there's no line, you just come in, park and charge.

546
00:42:19,921 --> 00:42:22,302
In LA, different story.

547
00:42:22,302 --> 00:42:24,203
You come in, you're gonna have to wait.

548
00:42:24,423 --> 00:42:27,624
sometimes that wait is gonna be really long and really painful.

549
00:42:27,624 --> 00:42:35,507
I don't have the data to back this up yet, but I will bet my last dollar that it has
everything to do with charging at home.

550
00:42:35,507 --> 00:42:40,418
And because there's just not enough charging at home down in LA yet, that's the problem.

551
00:42:40,418 --> 00:42:42,802
Well, I think I've definitely seen this.

552
00:42:42,802 --> 00:42:46,238
even experienced this first hand in the Bay Area recently.

553
00:42:46,238 --> 00:42:52,157
Yeah, I kind of had a funny thing when I flew in last weekend, I got an Uber.

554
00:42:52,670 --> 00:42:55,692
And the guy, first thing he asked me was, Hey, can I go charge?

555
00:42:55,692 --> 00:43:00,806
And I wasn't even thinking, I was like, and I, maybe I was just coming off the flight and
had been delayed.

556
00:43:00,806 --> 00:43:01,876
I was like, sure.

557
00:43:01,876 --> 00:43:10,402
And he literally, as I'm in the back of the Uber pulls into a charger, a supercharger,
just charges there, which I was like, okay.

558
00:43:10,402 --> 00:43:11,633
I guess I'm getting built for this.

559
00:43:11,633 --> 00:43:13,083
That's a fun twist.

560
00:43:13,104 --> 00:43:16,886
But, and we, I think really it was just, one.

561
00:43:16,886 --> 00:43:22,070
He didn't need the charge because I looked over his screen and said he had four percent
range.

562
00:43:22,070 --> 00:43:25,743
But then too, I think it was kind of an easy way for him to get a smoke break.

563
00:43:25,743 --> 00:43:32,389
looked like, but what I'm kind of what's really interesting to me is I completely agree
with you.

564
00:43:32,389 --> 00:43:39,725
It's like, it's hard to have the as much as I like to have the facts, everyone I've talked
to and even just personal experience anecdotally.

565
00:43:39,725 --> 00:43:46,290
And even, even though that was in the North Bay, like a big part of it is especially in
Southern California.

566
00:43:46,584 --> 00:43:49,106
Just DC fast sharing is so overwhelmed.

567
00:43:49,106 --> 00:43:55,451
And a big part of that is due to, Uber drivers and other kinds of rideshare drivers.

568
00:43:55,451 --> 00:44:01,636
And, one of the things I've definitely talked about with people, it's like a lot of these
companies, I mean, it's no different than like taxi companies.

569
00:44:01,636 --> 00:44:04,889
have their own commercial, gas filling stations.

570
00:44:04,889 --> 00:44:10,830
And I think we're in kind of a rough transition period with EVs, but that also needs to, I
think be solved.

571
00:44:10,830 --> 00:44:16,992
Whether it's Uber or whichever right company, has their own charging stations specifically
for them.

572
00:44:16,992 --> 00:44:24,684
So it doesn't kind of jam up some of the, normal charters for people trying to use,
especially if they don't have level two charging at their home.

573
00:44:24,684 --> 00:44:34,346
But I think that's why I was really so excited to talk to you today was to really get more
companies like yours, get awareness for it, because that is really what's having a big

574
00:44:34,346 --> 00:44:40,622
impact is not having those places where you can charge on a level two to really, make sure
that.

575
00:44:40,622 --> 00:44:44,197
day to day, you don't have to go to a fast charger because there's definitely a perp.

576
00:44:44,197 --> 00:44:50,355
There's definitely a place for it, but for the majority of the time, it really should be
for people kind of going through town or visiting.

577
00:44:50,416 --> 00:44:55,313
And if you can use a level two and you're not on a road trip, honest, I just think it's a
much better experience.

578
00:44:55,313 --> 00:44:57,686
Anyways, just plugging in and walk away.

579
00:44:58,162 --> 00:44:58,713
Yeah.

580
00:44:58,713 --> 00:45:08,260
And I think one of the things that you can be hopeful about is that I don't think Uber or
Lyft are going to build their own charging stations, not their MO.

581
00:45:08,841 --> 00:45:17,428
I think the thing that is going to change it, and I hope that you got a chance to see this
when you were in the Bay Area in San Francisco, is that Waymo is going to completely

582
00:45:17,428 --> 00:45:19,269
destroy that industry.

583
00:45:20,270 --> 00:45:21,741
Most people here use Waymo now.

584
00:45:21,741 --> 00:45:24,533
They're not really using Ubers unless Waymo is overburdened.

585
00:45:24,533 --> 00:45:27,598
So those cars do have their own charging depots.

586
00:45:27,598 --> 00:45:28,500
That's true, yeah.

587
00:45:28,500 --> 00:45:28,910
Yeah.

588
00:45:28,910 --> 00:45:36,700
So like, and I think that's where we're actually heading for, like the taxi cab type
companies is it's going to be all autonomous anyway.

589
00:45:36,700 --> 00:45:41,200
And they'll just go back to a centralized location on their own and charge up there.

590
00:45:41,980 --> 00:45:47,620
I do believe 100 % that people need to be educated about the DC fast model.

591
00:45:47,620 --> 00:45:53,060
People still get really tied to the idea of DC fast and gas stations.

592
00:45:53,060 --> 00:45:54,260
Same thing.

593
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:55,340
that's what we're going to do.

594
00:45:55,340 --> 00:45:58,580
And it's like, yeah, that's not actually how this should work.

595
00:45:58,580 --> 00:46:05,290
And the thing that I've actually gotten people to understand better is when I describe it
like with your cell phone, right?

596
00:46:05,290 --> 00:46:11,580
Like when my cell phone's, you know, running low, yeah, I'll find it like a public outlet
or something.

597
00:46:11,580 --> 00:46:13,240
I'll charge it from that public outlet.

598
00:46:13,240 --> 00:46:22,820
But most of the time, like the majority of the time, I just plug it in at home and it
doesn't matter if it's at, you know, 90 % or 1 % when I'm going to bed at night, it's

599
00:46:22,820 --> 00:46:23,540
getting plugged in.

600
00:46:23,540 --> 00:46:25,210
And then on the morning it's a hundred percent.

601
00:46:25,210 --> 00:46:27,412
And that's how I'm, if I look at

602
00:46:27,412 --> 00:46:31,212
internal data from Pando Electric or even my time at Evercharge.

603
00:46:31,212 --> 00:46:33,052
Like it was always the same.

604
00:46:33,052 --> 00:46:36,432
was people come home, they plug in, they go out with a hundred percent.

605
00:46:36,432 --> 00:46:41,112
That's what they want or they're, or they're capping at like 80, 90 % just to save the
battery.

606
00:46:41,112 --> 00:46:48,222
But that's what they're doing most of the time, rather than waiting until it bleeds down
to zero and then running around trying to find a station.

607
00:46:48,222 --> 00:46:53,362
Like that sounds like crazy to me now, but before with a gap, like your gas card, that's
what you did.

608
00:46:53,362 --> 00:46:57,416
And so we have to change people's mindset and that's just going to take time.

609
00:46:57,428 --> 00:47:05,447
We've been fueling our vehicles one way for 100 years, and now you're asking everybody to
rethink how that's actually working.

610
00:47:05,447 --> 00:47:09,280
so that's kind of going to be a little bit of a bumpy transition, I think.

611
00:47:10,982 --> 00:47:16,945
I think that's actually for one of the things I want to ask you about was kind of like
scaling and looking forward.

612
00:47:16,945 --> 00:47:25,570
talking about the future, can you share with us kind of what Pando Electric is looking at
and kind of how your team is thinking about it?

613
00:47:25,772 --> 00:47:30,294
boy, you're going to end up getting me in a lot of trouble with my boss if I say the wrong
things.

614
00:47:30,354 --> 00:47:36,517
know, startup life, you always have to be a little secretive about what you're looking at
and what you're going to do next.

615
00:47:36,517 --> 00:47:43,630
But I will say, look at the industry in general, and I'll say there's a lot of information
out there that's what's going to happen, right?

616
00:47:43,630 --> 00:47:49,002
So you're seeing a lot of press like, the grid can't handle all these electric vehicles.

617
00:47:49,002 --> 00:47:49,802
That's true.

618
00:47:49,802 --> 00:47:50,812
That is absolutely true.

619
00:47:50,812 --> 00:47:54,664
If I were to snap my fingers right now and every vehicle on the road turned into an EV,

620
00:47:54,856 --> 00:47:56,417
we'd have some problems.

621
00:47:56,777 --> 00:48:01,292
Good news, I can't do that and it's probably not gonna happen for quite a long time.

622
00:48:01,292 --> 00:48:03,084
So we have some time to figure this out.

623
00:48:03,084 --> 00:48:08,589
But in the meantime, there's a lot of interesting ideas around grid stability, grid
stability solutions.

624
00:48:08,589 --> 00:48:10,311
You can do V to G.

625
00:48:10,311 --> 00:48:16,736
I don't see a huge platform for that for like a consumer, but for maybe those, you know,
the taxi cars, that makes sense.

626
00:48:17,858 --> 00:48:20,958
But like, if you're gonna look at grid stability,

627
00:48:20,958 --> 00:48:25,079
How do I balance out the load that the building is going to draw?

628
00:48:25,079 --> 00:48:31,271
I want to make sure that I'm not always taxing at the highest time of use rate.

629
00:48:31,271 --> 00:48:37,533
So you can bring in batteries to stabilize the grid and act as like almost a reservoir for
the vehicles to pull off of.

630
00:48:37,533 --> 00:48:46,515
So I can pull in energy when it's being generated for cheap, middle of the day, solar,
wind, whatever, store it until it's going to be used for an EV.

631
00:48:46,715 --> 00:48:49,076
You can help balance out the load that way.

632
00:48:49,456 --> 00:48:53,178
There's a lot of really interesting things around like smart panels.

633
00:48:53,178 --> 00:48:54,869
I love what span is doing.

634
00:48:54,869 --> 00:49:01,541
I think there's a lot of really interesting things there to like add intelligence into our
grid.

635
00:49:01,541 --> 00:49:12,576
And that's kind of where I'm seeing not just Pando electric going obviously because I
mentioned it, but a lot of the EV charging companies are starting to look more at grid

636
00:49:12,576 --> 00:49:16,766
stability solutions and power management solutions for

637
00:49:16,766 --> 00:49:21,278
whole building energy loads rather than just the vehicles.

638
00:49:21,459 --> 00:49:30,604
And I think that's where we're to end up next is properties are going to start to realize
they have a lot of control in terms of power.

639
00:49:30,604 --> 00:49:36,258
And they're going to be able to start to do some really interesting things by adding solar
and batteries just on the low end.

640
00:49:36,258 --> 00:49:40,990
they were to go, that's the simplest solution we're going to add is solar panels on the
roof, batteries in the garage.

641
00:49:40,990 --> 00:49:44,112
And we have all our EVs charging up whenever they want.

642
00:49:44,404 --> 00:49:51,624
you can see that, can charge up, can fill up my batteries in the middle of the day with
the solar panels and then wait for the vehicles to come in at the end of the day.

643
00:49:51,624 --> 00:49:54,464
I've paid no money for that energy.

644
00:49:54,464 --> 00:49:59,244
But then I can turn around and charge the EV drivers their normal utility rate.

645
00:49:59,244 --> 00:50:01,844
So the EV drivers don't feel like they're getting squeezed.

646
00:50:01,844 --> 00:50:06,144
And so then you're starting to make some pretty significant profits as a property owner.

647
00:50:06,144 --> 00:50:07,884
So you're gonna start to see that shift happen.

648
00:50:07,884 --> 00:50:11,334
I would say over the next five years, that's 100 % coming.

649
00:50:11,704 --> 00:50:19,316
Yeah, I think, especially in a market like California where energy rates are pretty high,
there's a lot, even if you don't have solar panels where you can just have a battery

650
00:50:19,316 --> 00:50:26,398
backup system that charges during kind of the low time of use and then either use that
energy when it's more expensive.

651
00:50:26,398 --> 00:50:32,890
And I think exactly what you're talking about of still providing a value to the EV driver,
but then there is that price difference.

652
00:50:32,890 --> 00:50:37,181
And so it just kind of gives a more levelized and predictable cost to the EV driver.

653
00:50:37,181 --> 00:50:41,282
But then as the building owner, there's definitely a financial advantage to it.

654
00:50:41,810 --> 00:50:54,999
One question, you mentioned V2G and I agree with you, it's still early days, but is that
something Pandoelectric can support or is looking to support or would that really require

655
00:50:54,999 --> 00:51:00,323
much for your system to be upgraded to have that kind of functionality?

656
00:51:00,323 --> 00:51:07,388
Cause I, I mean, I'll be the first to admit right now there's no clear like standard for
what even V2G is from the software side.

657
00:51:07,388 --> 00:51:10,009
So I'm curious to see like how,

658
00:51:11,310 --> 00:51:22,046
big of a thing it actually becomes, but I definitely personally would love to have some
sort of system for that in my next home, but it really does seem to be just almost walled

659
00:51:22,046 --> 00:51:25,460
gardens between each automaker for that current light.

660
00:51:25,780 --> 00:51:33,640
Yeah, I think much like EVs were adopted by single family homeowners first, V2G is going
to be adopted by single family homeowners first.

661
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:39,720
I think as we move down this path, the answer is 100 % yes.

662
00:51:39,720 --> 00:51:46,200
Pando Electric is already looking into how to support those types of initiatives.

663
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:53,644
The thing that I'm always concerned about with the apartment owners, apartment dwellers is
that

664
00:51:53,780 --> 00:51:58,640
The last thing you want is, it's not coming off of your energy bill, it's coming off the
building's energy bill.

665
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:00,830
So it's like, okay, well, I'm not getting any benefit.

666
00:52:00,830 --> 00:52:05,420
And then also my car might end up at, went from 100 % to 50%.

667
00:52:05,420 --> 00:52:08,210
And I'm like, well, I didn't get anything for that.

668
00:52:08,210 --> 00:52:10,460
And my car has less energy in it.

669
00:52:10,460 --> 00:52:12,760
That kind of seems like a lose -lose.

670
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:18,086
So there are some initiatives going on like, well you get paid back for the energy or.

671
00:52:18,116 --> 00:52:27,830
Demand response is going to be the first big one for the apartment communities where
they'll be able to just shut off the chargers when they're seeing peak demand to prevent

672
00:52:27,830 --> 00:52:29,531
like a rolling blackout.

673
00:52:29,972 --> 00:52:31,802
Those types of things are really, really interesting.

674
00:52:31,802 --> 00:52:39,332
think those are gonna come, that's gonna be here very, very soon, like in the next year or
two, especially for California.

675
00:52:39,372 --> 00:52:41,732
But 100%, I think V2G is coming.

676
00:52:41,732 --> 00:52:43,432
It's something that Pando Electric has looked into.

677
00:52:43,432 --> 00:52:46,892
We couldn't support it today with our current setup.

678
00:52:47,132 --> 00:52:54,292
It's just an outlet, so there's no inverter or anything that can push power back out or
pull power back in.

679
00:52:54,812 --> 00:52:59,492
So those things need to be sorted out and thought through.

680
00:53:00,066 --> 00:53:11,021
one is really that reservoir that you kind of I do feel that that's something you do need
in the apartment community is a place where the power goes that's localized not just dump

681
00:53:11,021 --> 00:53:12,376
it back into the grid.

682
00:53:12,376 --> 00:53:13,248
Yeah.

683
00:53:13,584 --> 00:53:16,486
Yeah, there's a really great book called The Grid.

684
00:53:17,347 --> 00:53:22,410
It outlines all the issues with the American electrical infrastructure.

685
00:53:22,531 --> 00:53:26,624
And it outlines just why doing that doesn't solve many problems.

686
00:53:26,624 --> 00:53:28,455
It actually creates a lot more.

687
00:53:28,876 --> 00:53:36,111
So you'd rather have it go to a place where it's going to sit and get stored rather than,
I'm going to just send it back out into the grid, because then you're just like, where

688
00:53:36,111 --> 00:53:36,862
does it go?

689
00:53:36,862 --> 00:53:39,384
Because the one thing that people...

690
00:53:39,401 --> 00:53:42,607
it's really not going to do anything other than just become wasted.

691
00:53:42,972 --> 00:53:43,182
Right.

692
00:53:43,182 --> 00:53:44,393
They have to just dump it.

693
00:53:44,393 --> 00:53:50,786
And that's one of the things that people don't understand is that, you know, for a lot of
us, energy, electricity is like almost magical.

694
00:53:50,786 --> 00:53:53,297
I just push a button in my home, the lights all come on.

695
00:53:53,297 --> 00:53:55,197
That's like true magic.

696
00:53:55,218 --> 00:53:58,920
The thing is, is that it's actually the world's largest machine that we've built here.

697
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:03,862
The minute I push that button, the energy generated has to be created that second.

698
00:54:03,862 --> 00:54:05,943
So it has to be instantaneous.

699
00:54:05,943 --> 00:54:13,146
So that's something that like in general, like when you think about it, it's mind blowing
that we've had the system around for so long and that's how it works.

700
00:54:13,647 --> 00:54:17,159
but you can't just dump the power back in and be like, it'll go somewhere else.

701
00:54:17,159 --> 00:54:20,651
Well, no, somebody needs to have the ability to use that power at that moment.

702
00:54:21,550 --> 00:54:21,840
For sure.

703
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:30,698
And you actually brought up a really interesting thing that we've talked about on this
podcast a bit before around VDG is you mentioned an inverter and you have some automakers

704
00:54:30,698 --> 00:54:39,366
who are essentially backfitting with it would be DC that comes out and others that are
kind of going AC and it kind of just depends on the automaker.

705
00:54:39,366 --> 00:54:47,903
It seems like for your product and generally the less expensive, expensive option is if it
puts out AC, but then,

706
00:54:48,738 --> 00:54:56,440
Yeah, like you're saying that depending on how you want to store that and then use that
and especially in a multifamily situation, you probably would need to convert it anyway.

707
00:54:56,520 --> 00:55:07,833
And then, if you do the AC output, just puts, it's not a huge cost, but then technically
it is more on the vehicle purchase you're making.

708
00:55:08,564 --> 00:55:17,846
so yeah, I think there's a lot of hope and there's a lot of kind of still kind of the
rainbow and sparkles and kind of sunshine.

709
00:55:18,190 --> 00:55:23,792
stage of it where it's like, it's all, it's all, good and all promises and nothing bad can
happen.

710
00:55:23,792 --> 00:55:25,433
But now we're kind of getting to that other side.

711
00:55:25,433 --> 00:55:27,453
Like, okay, it's a great vision.

712
00:55:27,453 --> 00:55:30,164
How do we execute this and kind of make it practical?

713
00:55:30,164 --> 00:55:38,657
And there's still, I think every day it just seems, which is kind of a good thing because
it's getting solved, but it just seems like there is another kind of hurdle and thing to

714
00:55:38,657 --> 00:55:40,738
logistically work through on the technology.

715
00:55:40,738 --> 00:55:41,878
Unfortunately.

716
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:48,888
There is, but I would always say to people that we're still in the very early stages of
this technology.

717
00:55:48,888 --> 00:55:51,581
Like this is not something that has been around.

718
00:55:51,581 --> 00:55:53,854
This is not mature at all.

719
00:55:53,854 --> 00:55:56,928
This is, you know, you know, the earliest stages.

720
00:55:56,928 --> 00:56:01,162
And so there's a lot of really amazing innovations that are going to come.

721
00:56:02,228 --> 00:56:12,508
tell people like think about when the automobile first became mass market and how
different it became over the next you 50 years and that's where we're like that's what

722
00:56:12,508 --> 00:56:21,568
we're walking towards is like a very very different future than we're at right now there
probably is going to be a lot of vehicle to grid solutions there is going to be a lot more

723
00:56:21,568 --> 00:56:32,232
batteries there's going to be different types of you know know scenarios where it's stuff
that I can't even think about is going to exist so I'm honestly like super excited for the

724
00:56:32,232 --> 00:56:33,542
future of this.

725
00:56:33,923 --> 00:56:43,946
It's going to be, it's going to create a shit ton of jobs because we're now in like a
totally new world of having to re -org our entire grid around bringing the transportation

726
00:56:43,946 --> 00:56:49,768
sector on top of our already electrical infrastructure for our families and housing and
stuff like that.

727
00:56:50,340 --> 00:56:54,382
merging those two things together is causing a lot of problems right now.

728
00:56:54,382 --> 00:56:59,044
But I always, know, in the startup world, those actually problems create solutions.

729
00:56:59,044 --> 00:57:05,606
So these problems are going to create something really unique and hopefully quite
wonderful for the world.

730
00:57:05,666 --> 00:57:09,998
I have seen the other way go around, but that's where my hope, my optimism comes in.

731
00:57:09,998 --> 00:57:11,589
It's like, this is going to be, I'm really excited.

732
00:57:11,589 --> 00:57:13,549
I think it's going to be an amazing future.

733
00:57:13,650 --> 00:57:18,511
And V2G is just one of those like really amazing innovations that's going to happen.

734
00:57:18,872 --> 00:57:21,685
No, I think that's, I agree with you.

735
00:57:21,685 --> 00:57:22,865
I don't want to sound cynical.

736
00:57:22,865 --> 00:57:29,263
I think it's easy to be about that kind of like in the moment, but the more you look to
the future and stuff, there is a lot to be optimistic about it.

737
00:57:29,263 --> 00:57:39,765
So Joseph, I think it's best to end it on a positive note there, and looking at the
future, but I guess for anyone listening, what's the best way to get ahold of you or learn

738
00:57:39,765 --> 00:57:41,556
more about Pandoelectric?

739
00:57:41,928 --> 00:57:45,393
Yeah, pandoelectric .com is the best place to learn about the company.

740
00:57:45,393 --> 00:57:49,159
You can reach me at joseph .nagle at pandoelectric .com.

741
00:57:49,159 --> 00:57:51,583
I love to talk about electric vehicles.

742
00:57:51,583 --> 00:57:54,567
I love to talk about building a new grid.

743
00:57:54,567 --> 00:57:57,511
So reach out to me with any questions you have.

744
00:57:58,316 --> 00:57:58,637
Awesome.

745
00:57:58,637 --> 00:57:59,799
Well, thank you so much, Joseph.

746
00:57:59,799 --> 00:58:01,852
We'll have to have you back on soon.

747
00:58:01,852 --> 00:58:06,741
This has really been a pleasure because I know, like I said, we get so many questions and
people want to know more about level two.

748
00:58:06,741 --> 00:58:09,836
And I think it's really great what you guys are bringing to the space.

749
00:58:09,836 --> 00:58:11,929
So thanks so much for coming on today.

750
00:58:12,262 --> 00:58:12,734
Absolutely.

751
00:58:12,734 --> 00:58:15,749
Thank you so much for having me and I would love to come back anytime.

752
00:58:21,164 --> 00:58:24,887
Thank you for tuning into this episode of the grid connections podcast.

753
00:58:24,887 --> 00:58:31,242
hope you gain valuable insights with our conversation with Joseph Nagel, the head of
corporate strategy at Pando electric.

754
00:58:31,242 --> 00:58:39,449
If you're interested in the future of EV charging solutions, especially for multi -tenant
facilities like apartments and condos, this episode was packed with crucial information.

755
00:58:39,449 --> 00:58:46,334
And don't forget to check out Pando electric's website at Pando electric .com to learn
more and speak with the team there.

756
00:58:46,698 --> 00:58:54,744
As we discussed, the partnership between Pando Electric and Peninsula Clean Energy is
leading the charge in making electric vehicle charging more affordable and accessible.

757
00:58:54,744 --> 00:59:01,710
From reducing installation costs to improving grid stability, these innovations are
crucial for the continued growth of EV adoption.

758
00:59:01,849 --> 00:59:07,611
If you found this episode helpful, please share it with at least one other person who
might benefit from these insights too.

759
00:59:07,612 --> 00:59:10,783
Also, don't forget to leave a positive review on our podcast page.

760
00:59:10,783 --> 00:59:15,895
Your feedback helps us reach more listeners who are passionate about clean energy and
electric vehicles.

761
00:59:15,895 --> 00:59:20,283
Thanks again for tuning in and until next week, this is the Grid Connections podcast
signing off.