1 00:00:01,110 --> 00:00:03,420 Welcome to Digication Scholars Conversations. 2 00:00:03,780 --> 00:00:05,040 I'm your host, Jeff Yan. 3 00:00:05,550 --> 00:00:08,985 In this episode, you'll hear part two of my conversation with Patrick 4 00:00:08,985 --> 00:00:13,500 Green, executive director and founding director of the Center for Engaged 5 00:00:13,500 --> 00:00:17,070 Learning, teaching and Scholarship at Loyola University Chicago. 6 00:00:17,910 --> 00:00:21,669 More links and information about today's conversation can be found on Digication's 7 00:00:21,690 --> 00:00:23,100 Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. 8 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,850 Full episodes of Digication Scholars Conversations can be found on 9 00:00:26,855 --> 00:00:28,350 YouTube or your favorite podcast app. 10 00:00:29,595 --> 00:00:33,585 I have found that people have done the portfolio work, sometimes their portfolio. 11 00:00:34,305 --> 00:00:37,215 I mean, we obviously look at our portfolios, but what I have found 12 00:00:37,215 --> 00:00:44,085 is that they are just so much more articulate in how to explain themselves 13 00:00:44,415 --> 00:00:46,695 and sort of seeing what matters. 14 00:00:48,465 --> 00:00:48,975 Yes. 15 00:00:48,980 --> 00:00:52,785 As a matter of fact, we hear that time and time again from our students 16 00:00:53,205 --> 00:00:55,335 when our students do portfolios. 17 00:00:55,875 --> 00:01:02,295 They will report that they are able, in an interview, they are able to articulate. 18 00:01:02,805 --> 00:01:07,905 Themselves, their skills, their experiences so much better because 19 00:01:07,905 --> 00:01:09,375 they've worked on this portfolio. 20 00:01:09,825 --> 00:01:13,005 They've shared and articulated in the portfolio, their 21 00:01:13,005 --> 00:01:14,745 skills, their experiences. 22 00:01:15,105 --> 00:01:18,225 They've curated it, right, so they've made meaning of it. 23 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,760 And then they walk into an interview situation or apply to a graduate or a 24 00:01:22,765 --> 00:01:26,900 professional school, they can articulate this and they are leaps and bounds 25 00:01:26,900 --> 00:01:30,650 ahead of other candidates because they've worked on a portfolio and we 26 00:01:30,650 --> 00:01:32,150 hear that from students all the time. 27 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,330 They'll come back and they'll share with us, you know, that portfolio 28 00:01:35,330 --> 00:01:38,420 I did, it helped me get this experience, it helped me get into 29 00:01:38,420 --> 00:01:40,310 this graduate or professional school. 30 00:01:40,730 --> 00:01:42,140 Um, it set me apart. 31 00:01:42,230 --> 00:01:46,370 I went into this interview so much more prepared because of that portfolio. 32 00:01:46,670 --> 00:01:47,870 So we know. 33 00:01:47,905 --> 00:01:49,105 It has an impact. 34 00:01:49,105 --> 00:01:55,165 But what's so interesting is the way it has an impact, it's not, it's 35 00:01:55,165 --> 00:02:02,395 not that all of the sudden, uh, the, the portfolio got that experience. 36 00:02:02,815 --> 00:02:09,625 It's that it enhanced their communication and meaning making of their skills 37 00:02:09,955 --> 00:02:15,505 and their, um, you know, experiences and all of the different assignments. 38 00:02:15,955 --> 00:02:17,305 It just completely. 39 00:02:18,015 --> 00:02:21,225 Allowed them to communicate themselves better. 40 00:02:23,655 --> 00:02:25,515 So I wanna switch a little bit. 41 00:02:25,515 --> 00:02:27,795 We don't have to talk about portfolio the entire time, although 42 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,125 I would love with you, I feel I can just talk about it for hours. 43 00:02:31,545 --> 00:02:36,285 Um, but, um, I wanna save, uh, just a little, you know, at least I wanna spend 44 00:02:36,285 --> 00:02:42,075 some time on talking about, you know, experiential learning and community-based 45 00:02:42,075 --> 00:02:44,265 learning, service learning, and so on. 46 00:02:44,725 --> 00:02:49,465 Um, for those who might be listening and are not familiar with all of those 47 00:02:49,465 --> 00:02:53,605 things, or maybe they've heard it, but you know, they won't personally, 48 00:02:54,295 --> 00:02:56,425 um, you know, have those experience. 49 00:02:56,425 --> 00:02:57,625 Or maybe some of us, you know? 50 00:03:01,875 --> 00:03:02,465 They've never been exposed. 51 00:03:02,465 --> 00:03:03,465 What do you th... 52 00:03:03,465 --> 00:03:11,755 cos, that's your job. 53 00:03:12,805 --> 00:03:13,425 That's your day-to-day. 54 00:03:13,425 --> 00:03:14,198 What do you tell them? 55 00:03:14,198 --> 00:03:14,271 What's so... 56 00:03:14,271 --> 00:03:14,443 All about this things, why are they high-impact practice? 57 00:03:14,443 --> 00:03:14,486 And how does that relate to portfolio, and the things that we talk about? 58 00:03:14,486 --> 00:03:14,488 Yeah. 59 00:03:14,488 --> 00:03:14,490 Yeah. 60 00:03:14,490 --> 00:03:15,870 Thanks for that question. 61 00:03:15,870 --> 00:03:19,770 So, you know, community-based learning or service learning, and I use those 62 00:03:19,770 --> 00:03:28,440 terms, um, interchangeably, um, is a form of, uh, teaching and learning where, uh, 63 00:03:28,500 --> 00:03:31,230 you engage students in the community. 64 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:36,685 Um, Doing some type of community-based work, whether it's direct service, 65 00:03:36,685 --> 00:03:42,805 volunteer work, or indirectly working on a community project, then allowing 66 00:03:42,805 --> 00:03:47,095 the students to reflect on that experience and connect it directly 67 00:03:47,095 --> 00:03:48,415 back to whatever they're studying. 68 00:03:49,045 --> 00:03:52,644 Uh, and so service learning and community-based learning for the past 69 00:03:52,644 --> 00:03:57,655 three decades has been a really powerful form of teaching and learning because 70 00:03:57,655 --> 00:04:01,915 not only has it brought students learning to life, so whatever they're 71 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,095 studying, um, has been brought to life. 72 00:04:05,394 --> 00:04:08,454 It also has allowed. 73 00:04:08,525 --> 00:04:14,825 The community to be seen as a really important player in 74 00:04:15,245 --> 00:04:16,685 the educational enterprise. 75 00:04:17,165 --> 00:04:21,245 So the community becomes a co-educator, uh, and by the community. 76 00:04:21,250 --> 00:04:25,385 It could be a community organization, it could be members of a neighborhood, 77 00:04:25,895 --> 00:04:29,045 um, or a nonprofit organization. 78 00:04:29,495 --> 00:04:35,405 Uh, and the wisdom and experience and knowledge that resides in the community. 79 00:04:36,220 --> 00:04:40,450 Is really brought to the forefront and as students are working with members 80 00:04:40,450 --> 00:04:44,620 of the community or with a nonprofit organization, they're also addressing 81 00:04:44,620 --> 00:04:46,030 the priorities of the community. 82 00:04:46,180 --> 00:04:51,730 So what really makes service learning or community-based learning unique is it 83 00:04:51,730 --> 00:04:54,220 emphasizes both the learning of students. 84 00:04:54,719 --> 00:04:56,670 And the priorities of the community? 85 00:04:57,540 --> 00:05:03,150 Uh, I think more broadly, the term experiential learning is really an 86 00:05:03,150 --> 00:05:08,550 umbrella term for lots of different types of, um, teaching and learning. 87 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,340 And so service learning, community based learning would be an 88 00:05:11,340 --> 00:05:13,560 example, but you also have. 89 00:05:13,615 --> 00:05:14,665 Internships. 90 00:05:14,665 --> 00:05:19,675 You also have, um, global experiences or study abroad experiences. 91 00:05:19,675 --> 00:05:21,865 You also have undergraduate research. 92 00:05:22,405 --> 00:05:26,305 So experiential learning tends to be just a broad term that 93 00:05:26,305 --> 00:05:32,095 encompasses, um, an experience that students have, um, over time. 94 00:05:32,784 --> 00:05:36,804 Uh, and then deep reflection on that experience. 95 00:05:37,284 --> 00:05:43,015 Um, certainly, uh, assessment and evaluation of the experience. 96 00:05:43,434 --> 00:05:43,825 Uh, and then. 97 00:05:45,705 --> 00:05:50,835 Uh, I think with experiential learning, always connecting it back to the 98 00:05:50,835 --> 00:05:55,395 topic at hand or the theme of, of the course, what, what is being studied. 99 00:05:55,995 --> 00:05:59,745 Um, and the reason that that all of these types of experiential learning 100 00:05:59,745 --> 00:06:04,545 are often referred to as high impact learning, again, just as I mentioned 101 00:06:04,545 --> 00:06:08,475 with, with learning portfolios, is because it's about deep learning. 102 00:06:08,505 --> 00:06:13,155 So learning that, um, transfers and is integrated over time. 103 00:06:13,510 --> 00:06:16,630 And I think portfolios play a key role in that because of 104 00:06:16,630 --> 00:06:17,919 that critical reflection piece. 105 00:06:17,919 --> 00:06:21,580 So all of these types of high impact learning require critical 106 00:06:21,585 --> 00:06:26,530 reflection and portfolios are one of the ideal, um, modalities for 107 00:06:26,530 --> 00:06:28,030 that, that critical reflection. 108 00:06:28,539 --> 00:06:33,319 Um, but my life's work has been really focused on creating community-based 109 00:06:33,319 --> 00:06:36,669 learning, service learning, experiential learning opportunities for students. 110 00:06:36,669 --> 00:06:39,070 Again, I think, you know, as, as you. 111 00:06:39,599 --> 00:06:42,885 As at the beginning of our, our conversation, Jeff, you know, 112 00:06:42,885 --> 00:06:46,215 I found my intersection, my passion at that intersection of 113 00:06:46,215 --> 00:06:47,745 community and higher education. 114 00:06:48,315 --> 00:06:53,625 Um, but at that intersection I also saw the, you know, the, the robust, 115 00:06:53,715 --> 00:06:59,055 um, the cultural and social capital of the community along with the cultural 116 00:06:59,055 --> 00:07:04,305 social capital, um, of the higher education and how both of those in. 117 00:07:04,725 --> 00:07:09,735 In that intersection in working together could be elevated, um, and celebrated. 118 00:07:10,215 --> 00:07:14,595 Um, and, and that's where knowledge can be co-created through community 119 00:07:14,595 --> 00:07:18,675 engaged research or community based research, um, through community 120 00:07:18,675 --> 00:07:19,935 engaged teaching and learning. 121 00:07:19,935 --> 00:07:22,980 So for me, I found my passion. 122 00:07:23,220 --> 00:07:27,000 I didn't have the words for any of this when I was going through it. 123 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:27,300 Right? 124 00:07:27,930 --> 00:07:31,800 I, yeah, I had to go through several journeys before I even had the language 125 00:07:31,805 --> 00:07:33,630 or the words to describe to you. 126 00:07:34,290 --> 00:07:35,190 This is the work. 127 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:37,290 This is where my life passion is. 128 00:07:37,530 --> 00:07:40,080 Community engaged teaching and learning and research. 129 00:07:40,500 --> 00:07:45,594 Um, if you had asked me that, you know, uh, 20 years ago, 130 00:07:45,685 --> 00:07:47,155 I didn't have that language. 131 00:07:47,664 --> 00:07:53,125 Um, uh, and so for me it has been a journey as I discovered, 132 00:07:53,695 --> 00:07:55,435 uh, some of my life passions. 133 00:07:55,825 --> 00:07:59,275 It has been a journey for me to then also say I. 134 00:07:59,275 --> 00:08:04,325 Oh, this is what I'm interested in and wanting to provide these opportunities, 135 00:08:04,805 --> 00:08:09,815 um, for students, but also to provide these opportunities for faculty because 136 00:08:09,815 --> 00:08:13,655 I think, obviously our goal is always student success and student learning. 137 00:08:14,250 --> 00:08:18,060 But the way that we get there is actually by working closely with 138 00:08:18,060 --> 00:08:23,010 faculty and enhancing the capacity of faculty in higher education, and 139 00:08:23,010 --> 00:08:27,000 then of course working closely with our community partners and listening 140 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:31,560 closely and deeply to the community to say, what are those priorities? 141 00:08:31,890 --> 00:08:33,510 What are your pressing needs? 142 00:08:33,910 --> 00:08:36,910 What are the assets that you wanna celebrate and elevate? 143 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:42,910 And then how can we collaboratively address the world's wicked problems 144 00:08:43,270 --> 00:08:48,970 in order to better our local communities and address, um, all 145 00:08:48,970 --> 00:08:52,300 of these issues both locally, regionally, nationally, and globally? 146 00:08:53,950 --> 00:09:01,180 I, I love that, and I want to, I wanna sort of look at it from a, from a, from 147 00:09:01,180 --> 00:09:08,055 an angle that, That perhaps has been a, um, a challenge in higher education recent 148 00:09:08,055 --> 00:09:16,755 years, um, higher education has been, um, under a lot of scrutiny and a lot of, 149 00:09:17,025 --> 00:09:21,435 a huge microscope to, to try to, people trying to figure out, you know, this 150 00:09:21,435 --> 00:09:24,075 whole idea of cost for higher education. 151 00:09:24,735 --> 00:09:26,775 I think that there's no, I. 152 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,190 Arguing that higher education is expensive. 153 00:09:29,670 --> 00:09:33,960 Um, what some people don't know is it's also expensive to run, to provide all 154 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:35,610 these services that you just talked about. 155 00:09:35,610 --> 00:09:37,620 It's these, these things don't just run itself. 156 00:09:38,310 --> 00:09:40,770 Um, could there be more efficient ways though? 157 00:09:40,775 --> 00:09:46,200 I think that there might be, uh, but having all that said, one of 158 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,920 the things that people sometimes don't get, and I think that what 159 00:09:49,925 --> 00:09:55,890 you said is really pointing me out, the fact that you are not coming to. 160 00:09:56,610 --> 00:10:02,189 This college necessarily, just to get those listed skills for whatever 161 00:10:02,189 --> 00:10:07,380 major that you happen to be, because you can kinda easily do that. 162 00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:10,740 You can say, if you're gonna be an engineer, here is a list of skills 163 00:10:10,740 --> 00:10:13,920 and sub skills, and we can sort of eventually list all of them. 164 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:15,360 It's a finite number. 165 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,300 It's a, maybe a huge list, but it's a finite number if it 166 00:10:18,300 --> 00:10:19,770 divide 'em into little lessons. 167 00:10:20,085 --> 00:10:23,295 The persons will get it, or they read enough books, they'll get 168 00:10:23,295 --> 00:10:25,365 all of this stuff, you know? 169 00:10:25,605 --> 00:10:29,175 And the same reason that we don't just say, well, stop going to school. 170 00:10:29,175 --> 00:10:30,915 Just go to the library has everything. 171 00:10:31,335 --> 00:10:34,155 Or now, in today's world, go to the internet, has everything, 172 00:10:34,155 --> 00:10:35,595 go to YouTube, has everything. 173 00:10:36,045 --> 00:10:40,575 Um, and in fact, what happens to society has now sort of reacted a little bit 174 00:10:40,575 --> 00:10:42,255 by saying, Hey, here's some bootcamp. 175 00:10:42,255 --> 00:10:47,219 Here's a a little, you know, Um, masterclass and this is how you 176 00:10:47,219 --> 00:10:48,150 can learn how to do something. 177 00:10:48,150 --> 00:10:49,380 You can just skip college. 178 00:10:50,189 --> 00:10:54,479 And while I don't disagree that some of those things are really, actually 179 00:10:54,479 --> 00:10:57,839 sometimes some of them are great at teaching certain skills that 180 00:10:57,839 --> 00:11:02,339 higher education need to be, uh, you know, shouldn't be misunderstood. 181 00:11:02,339 --> 00:11:04,589 That is only about acquiring those skills. 182 00:11:04,890 --> 00:11:06,239 It's about those experiences. 183 00:11:06,239 --> 00:11:11,939 It's also about this sort of, I love what you said about community and. 184 00:11:13,125 --> 00:11:17,925 On one hand, you are creating the priorities and figuring out what 185 00:11:17,925 --> 00:11:19,245 the priorities are in the community. 186 00:11:19,245 --> 00:11:20,115 For the community. 187 00:11:20,564 --> 00:11:22,395 You're also figuring it out for yourself. 188 00:11:23,204 --> 00:11:28,185 Kind of like you figuring out my life's work is, is about this and that. 189 00:11:28,875 --> 00:11:31,635 When does a student have an opportunity to do that? 190 00:11:32,055 --> 00:11:35,245 If they just go to like this bootcamp, six week course? 191 00:11:36,275 --> 00:11:36,564 Yeah. 192 00:11:36,564 --> 00:11:38,655 They don't, you know, that's not what those. 193 00:11:39,405 --> 00:11:41,205 But camps are afford, they're for something else. 194 00:11:41,205 --> 00:11:41,295 Right. 195 00:11:41,325 --> 00:11:43,755 And it's, it's not useless at all. 196 00:11:43,905 --> 00:11:46,305 It's just not what higher education is about. 197 00:11:46,485 --> 00:11:46,694 Right. 198 00:11:46,965 --> 00:11:50,295 It's partially about that, but it's also about some other 199 00:11:50,295 --> 00:11:52,035 fundamental part of development. 200 00:11:52,035 --> 00:11:53,085 The human development. 201 00:11:53,475 --> 00:11:53,625 Yeah. 202 00:11:53,625 --> 00:11:55,245 You know, for themselves and for others. 203 00:11:55,335 --> 00:11:55,875 Yeah. 204 00:11:55,965 --> 00:11:56,385 Yeah. 205 00:11:56,655 --> 00:11:59,895 Again, as you said, you know, higher education has been under 206 00:11:59,895 --> 00:12:01,455 attack, it has been critiqued. 207 00:12:01,935 --> 00:12:06,699 Um, And, and the value proposition of, of higher education and getting a higher 208 00:12:06,699 --> 00:12:08,439 education degree has been questioned. 209 00:12:08,439 --> 00:12:11,470 And we've seen that a lot in the past several years. 210 00:12:11,860 --> 00:12:17,230 Um, and look, I, I have three kids, one in college, one about ready to go to 211 00:12:17,230 --> 00:12:23,560 college, um, and the, my third, uh, a few years away yet, but will be as well. 212 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:24,010 And. 213 00:12:24,630 --> 00:12:27,870 And here's what I have to say because I'm gonna speak from the lens of, 214 00:12:28,349 --> 00:12:32,760 um, a, a scholar practitioner that works in higher education and a 215 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,640 parent, um, who's paying hefty bills. 216 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,310 Um, so I want to be really transparent here. 217 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:44,920 Um, I think the critiques around the value of a higher education degree is. 218 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:50,070 Um, actually around how it's being de defined and how 219 00:12:50,070 --> 00:12:51,450 its value is being defined. 220 00:12:51,780 --> 00:12:54,720 And I think it's being defined in a very narrow way if you're talking 221 00:12:54,725 --> 00:13:00,750 about, um, uh, getting a job that is a narrow definition of the whole 222 00:13:00,750 --> 00:13:05,490 educational enterprise, um, that has existed for hundreds of years. 223 00:13:05,695 --> 00:13:10,375 And I would challenge that if it's being defined, um, in very 224 00:13:10,375 --> 00:13:15,685 specific ways with skills and certifications, that is a very narrow. 225 00:13:16,065 --> 00:13:21,165 Um, interpretation of the whole educational enterprise. 226 00:13:21,405 --> 00:13:24,915 It's also a very narrow interpretation of learning and development, and 227 00:13:24,915 --> 00:13:28,185 I would ask people to reflect on their own learning and development 228 00:13:28,215 --> 00:13:33,250 before they would categorize, um, A degree or higher education. 229 00:13:33,700 --> 00:13:38,410 Um, because if you just reflect on your own learning and development, um, then 230 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:40,840 that, that definition will broaden. 231 00:13:41,410 --> 00:13:45,130 Uh, because higher education is truly about young adulthood. 232 00:13:45,580 --> 00:13:51,720 Um, Learning and development or for non-traditional students, um, who 233 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,439 may go at various times in their life, it is about learning and 234 00:13:55,439 --> 00:13:57,960 development at a different life stage. 235 00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:03,600 Um, and I would argue that that focus on learning and development 236 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:09,480 is, if you unpack that, is rich with a lot of different dimensions. 237 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,810 That's a really multidimensional phrase that I'm using when I 238 00:14:12,810 --> 00:14:13,860 say learning and development. 239 00:14:14,370 --> 00:14:15,870 Part of that learning and development. 240 00:14:16,530 --> 00:14:22,859 May be related to skills and knowledge that is connected to a career, but 241 00:14:22,859 --> 00:14:27,120 part of that learning and development is going to be all these other 242 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,219 dimensions of what it means to be human. 243 00:14:30,030 --> 00:14:34,620 It may be about the community and their civic role in the community. 244 00:14:34,709 --> 00:14:35,130 Mm-hmm. 245 00:14:35,214 --> 00:14:39,000 What it means to be civically engaged, what it means to 246 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:40,890 be a member of a community. 247 00:14:41,550 --> 00:14:44,400 Um, part of that development might be, I. 248 00:14:44,790 --> 00:14:49,890 What it means to be part of a certain ethnic or racial identity. 249 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:56,280 What it means to be part of, um, where you call the United States, your home 250 00:14:56,370 --> 00:15:00,839 and you call another country home, what it means to be transnational, what it 251 00:15:00,839 --> 00:15:04,439 means to have home in multiple places. 252 00:15:05,010 --> 00:15:07,270 All these other aspects of one's identity are. 253 00:15:07,470 --> 00:15:09,450 All part of that learning and development. 254 00:15:10,020 --> 00:15:12,870 Um, and this is beyond identity politics. 255 00:15:12,900 --> 00:15:15,810 This is again, what it means to be human. 256 00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:23,100 And as people begin to identify for themselves the meaning and meanings. 257 00:15:23,625 --> 00:15:28,845 That they have in life, the priorities, where they spend their time, where they 258 00:15:28,845 --> 00:15:34,245 spend their money, where they value, and what they value as they explore all of 259 00:15:34,250 --> 00:15:38,055 that, that happens in an environment. 260 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:39,800 In higher education. 261 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,890 And that environment is a structured environment. 262 00:15:42,890 --> 00:15:44,600 It is a safe environment. 263 00:15:44,990 --> 00:15:49,430 It is also an environment that is built intentionally and strategically 264 00:15:49,790 --> 00:15:54,590 so that individuals can explore that, um, so that individuals can 265 00:15:54,590 --> 00:16:00,140 also open their minds to new frames of reference, to new perspectives. 266 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,570 Um, and all of that is. 267 00:16:02,625 --> 00:16:07,515 Behind the intention of higher education and that, that learning and development. 268 00:16:07,815 --> 00:16:14,145 And so, you know, for, for me, when I hear the critiques around the higher 269 00:16:14,145 --> 00:16:20,805 education, around the value proposition of a college degree, um, however that may 270 00:16:20,805 --> 00:16:25,335 be defined, if it's defined economically and by price point, it's defined 271 00:16:25,335 --> 00:16:29,145 by the career and job, um, numbers. 272 00:16:29,910 --> 00:16:34,500 Um, for me, part of the answer is in community-based learning 273 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,000 and experiential learning. 274 00:16:36,510 --> 00:16:41,370 Um, because the intentionality of the connections that are created for 275 00:16:41,375 --> 00:16:45,630 students through, uh, community-based learning and experiential learning, 276 00:16:45,930 --> 00:16:50,970 these are curated experiences that students can't get on their own. 277 00:16:52,050 --> 00:16:55,920 In the same way, in the same guided and structured way. 278 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,700 Um, and I think some people would argue with that and say, sure, a student 279 00:16:59,700 --> 00:17:01,260 could get an internship on their own. 280 00:17:01,710 --> 00:17:02,100 Yes. 281 00:17:02,100 --> 00:17:04,140 But is it an educational internship? 282 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:08,760 Is it an academic internship that is curated, connected to a class that you 283 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,930 see offered, like at Loyola University of Chicago or at other institutions? 284 00:17:12,930 --> 00:17:13,260 Right? 285 00:17:13,530 --> 00:17:16,940 So again, these are curated experiences. 286 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,850 That students can't get in other ways. 287 00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:26,430 Um, so what happens then is we're connecting students to networks, 288 00:17:26,670 --> 00:17:33,270 communities, people, um, and students are connecting themselves through these, 289 00:17:33,390 --> 00:17:40,950 their engagement to networks, communities, people, um, institutions, organizations. 290 00:17:41,190 --> 00:17:50,775 And that process is where the, I think, um, Output and value of higher education 291 00:17:51,285 --> 00:17:55,425 is just dramatically, uh, increased. 292 00:17:55,575 --> 00:17:58,225 And, and I think that's where experiential learning plays a key role. 293 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,860 I, I, I really, I love that. 294 00:18:01,860 --> 00:18:02,400 I agree. 295 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:03,810 I agree with you a hundred percent. 296 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:11,400 I too have three, um, teenagers who are, um, in high school right now, so I, my, my 297 00:18:11,405 --> 00:18:15,300 bill is about to go up by a lot as well. 298 00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:20,910 Um, I, I, I really do think that there is a genuine part of. 299 00:18:22,470 --> 00:18:27,660 Um, going through these, being able to have that experience and figuring 300 00:18:27,660 --> 00:18:31,050 out what matters to you, what are your passion, what are the things 301 00:18:31,055 --> 00:18:36,180 that make you happy, is is a rather important part of the value proposition. 302 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,060 Who gets to just do that and explore? 303 00:18:39,540 --> 00:18:45,420 You know, like it's hard to do that while you are working a job where it was highly 304 00:18:45,420 --> 00:18:49,020 demanding and sure, you'll be learning that skill and you may be making money. 305 00:18:49,649 --> 00:18:53,639 Um, but that's, that's a big part of what, you know, you're getting 306 00:18:53,639 --> 00:18:54,870 out of higher education now. 307 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:59,430 It's sometimes hard to see it because it camouflages itself sometimes while 308 00:18:59,430 --> 00:19:01,050 you're doing it is not, you are not happy. 309 00:19:01,379 --> 00:19:02,730 You're like, oh, this is so hard. 310 00:19:02,735 --> 00:19:05,550 I'm like, like really stressed, right? 311 00:19:06,060 --> 00:19:13,125 Um, but ultimately though, We, I think you and I believe in the long term, 312 00:19:13,635 --> 00:19:18,705 that's what's gonna bring happiness to that individual is when you become, 313 00:19:19,215 --> 00:19:23,355 you know, you go through that phase of when, just like when Patrick Green goes, 314 00:19:23,355 --> 00:19:26,865 went through the face of figuring out, ah, this is what I'm about, this is 315 00:19:26,870 --> 00:19:28,515 what my life's work is gonna be about. 316 00:19:29,325 --> 00:19:29,625 Right? 317 00:19:29,625 --> 00:19:32,325 But it doesn't come for free. 318 00:19:32,330 --> 00:19:34,635 It doesn't come easily, at least for most people. 319 00:19:34,935 --> 00:19:36,225 You have to really work at it. 320 00:19:36,885 --> 00:19:40,334 And, and I think that's, that's a, that's a big part of it. 321 00:19:40,334 --> 00:19:45,524 But I also argue that on the flip side, society needs people like 322 00:19:45,524 --> 00:19:51,615 this that are happily doing things that matters to the world in a way 323 00:19:51,615 --> 00:19:54,764 that is wise and that is clever. 324 00:19:54,764 --> 00:19:58,965 That is, you know, going to do, you know, tackle two things at once. 325 00:19:59,475 --> 00:20:04,514 Um, that are not just sticking whatever that's convention for granted. 326 00:20:05,114 --> 00:20:06,254 Um, right. 327 00:20:06,344 --> 00:20:11,145 And so in order for that to happen, you really need these two areas. 328 00:20:11,145 --> 00:20:15,104 I mean, you, you want them to be happy people figuring out what 329 00:20:15,110 --> 00:20:19,215 matters to them, and hopefully align that in such a way that will also 330 00:20:19,215 --> 00:20:20,864 address the priorities of community. 331 00:20:21,645 --> 00:20:26,475 Um, and now you have a generation of people who are gonna be. 332 00:20:27,105 --> 00:20:30,615 Knowledgeable who are able to learn because they went through that reflective 333 00:20:30,615 --> 00:20:36,705 learning, critical reflection, you know, per um, experience and, um, are willing 334 00:20:36,710 --> 00:20:40,515 to dedicate their lives towards something that's gonna be good for the world. 335 00:20:41,085 --> 00:20:44,565 Um, I mean, that to me seems pretty worthwhile. 336 00:20:45,345 --> 00:20:45,465 I. 337 00:20:45,555 --> 00:20:46,425 Absolutely. 338 00:20:46,455 --> 00:20:48,405 And, and what do we know about people? 339 00:20:48,405 --> 00:20:52,605 We know people need meaning and purpose in their life. 340 00:20:53,145 --> 00:20:57,585 Um, so how do we provide space for them to explore? 341 00:20:58,155 --> 00:21:01,305 You know, what is meaningful and purposeful for you? 342 00:21:01,905 --> 00:21:04,305 Where do you find meaning and purpose? 343 00:21:04,725 --> 00:21:08,775 Um, and how can you connect that with your work? 344 00:21:08,835 --> 00:21:12,555 Right now for some people they may, they may connect that to their hobbies, 345 00:21:12,555 --> 00:21:17,325 to avocations and, and they may choose to do work in another direction. 346 00:21:17,630 --> 00:21:18,350 That's fine. 347 00:21:18,590 --> 00:21:22,880 However you find meaning and purpose, make sure that that is something that 348 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,250 you center her, you know, in your life. 349 00:21:25,610 --> 00:21:31,760 Um, and, and I think the reality is, is that we know that, um, 350 00:21:31,910 --> 00:21:34,570 work is important also for. 351 00:21:35,370 --> 00:21:40,740 A paycheck for the ability to pay for the necessities in life to live 352 00:21:40,740 --> 00:21:42,690 safely, healthfully, and comfortably. 353 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:49,410 Um, and so the, this is in no way to dismiss the necessity of work. 354 00:21:49,620 --> 00:21:51,870 This is simply to elevate the dignity. 355 00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:53,010 Of work. 356 00:21:53,370 --> 00:21:59,550 Um, and so to allow people to recognize dignity in all work, um, you know, 357 00:21:59,550 --> 00:22:04,080 I always make sure and, and, uh, you know, for my children growing up to 358 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:09,150 make sure that they know, thank those in the service industry because without 359 00:22:09,155 --> 00:22:15,210 them, we wouldn't be able to go to a restaurant to function in an airport 360 00:22:15,210 --> 00:22:17,160 properly and use the facilities. 361 00:22:17,565 --> 00:22:23,865 Always thank those individuals and the dignity of their work allows us 362 00:22:24,465 --> 00:22:29,865 the privilege to use the bathroom to sit down at a restaurant. 363 00:22:30,375 --> 00:22:34,005 Um, that is incredibly important for us to remember. 364 00:22:34,515 --> 00:22:39,615 Uh, and I think for us, elevating the dignity of work is not only about 365 00:22:39,615 --> 00:22:44,295 honoring the multiple functions of work across all sectors of the economy. 366 00:22:44,895 --> 00:22:52,305 It is also about recognizing that we hope people are able to find 367 00:22:52,305 --> 00:22:57,765 meaning and purpose, uh, in their work, and that they see it as a 368 00:22:57,765 --> 00:22:59,865 contribution to the larger society. 369 00:23:00,045 --> 00:23:04,065 However, that may be the contribution of the individual who cleans the 370 00:23:04,065 --> 00:23:07,305 bathroom is the biggest privilege. 371 00:23:08,055 --> 00:23:12,435 That we have in this country to be able to utilize. 372 00:23:12,435 --> 00:23:18,075 If you look around the world and how others around the world live, it is 373 00:23:18,075 --> 00:23:23,475 a privilege that we are able to use a functional clean bathroom, and it is 374 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:29,415 because of our brothers and sisters working in the service industry who 375 00:23:29,415 --> 00:23:33,015 have taken on that job and do it well. 376 00:23:33,629 --> 00:23:35,850 That is dignity and work. 377 00:23:36,179 --> 00:23:40,409 It also is an example of that is meaning and purpose, and we hope that 378 00:23:40,409 --> 00:23:46,679 individuals in all types of the service industry, all types of jobs, professions, 379 00:23:46,679 --> 00:23:48,240 in all sectors of the economy. 380 00:23:49,485 --> 00:23:53,295 May they find not only dignity, but meaning and purpose in their work. 381 00:23:55,395 --> 00:24:04,365 Um, speaking of, um, sort of higher education values and you know, and so 382 00:24:04,370 --> 00:24:11,115 on, there are a lot of contemporary higher education, pressing issues. 383 00:24:12,615 --> 00:24:16,185 Um, certainly in the last few years. 384 00:24:16,190 --> 00:24:17,475 You know, we've seen. 385 00:24:18,405 --> 00:24:26,235 Um, after George Floyd, the re reinvigoration of, you know, conversations 386 00:24:26,235 --> 00:24:33,405 around racism, identity, um, there's, you know, um, the things like the Me 387 00:24:33,405 --> 00:24:37,245 Too movement that have also started other, you know, kind of conversations. 388 00:24:37,785 --> 00:24:44,595 Um, there is AI in, you know, looming over, um, Everyone and everywhere 389 00:24:44,595 --> 00:24:49,215 in the world, including education and higher education, what are some 390 00:24:49,215 --> 00:24:51,405 of the pressing issues that you as. 391 00:24:52,770 --> 00:24:58,500 Um, a leader in, you know, in a prominent university, uh, what do 392 00:24:58,500 --> 00:25:02,550 you see, um, that you can share and what is on the top of your mind? 393 00:25:03,570 --> 00:25:04,230 Yeah. 394 00:25:04,770 --> 00:25:09,690 Uh, so thank you for naming, um, some of those, those pressing issues. 395 00:25:10,020 --> 00:25:14,129 Um, I would underscore, um, a commitment to diversity, 396 00:25:14,129 --> 00:25:16,020 equity, inclusion, and justice. 397 00:25:16,110 --> 00:25:19,680 Um, you know, the narrative has changed significantly. 398 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:26,995 We have, um, been forced to reckon with racial injustice. 399 00:25:27,534 --> 00:25:34,104 Um, although our brothers and sisters, um, whose lived experience has been one 400 00:25:34,104 --> 00:25:40,104 of racial injustice, um, especially, uh, the, the BIPOC Community, I would say 401 00:25:40,165 --> 00:25:43,824 has been communicating this for decades. 402 00:25:44,395 --> 00:25:46,824 We have been forced with the murder of George Floyd and 403 00:25:46,830 --> 00:25:48,445 countless others to reckon. 404 00:25:49,004 --> 00:25:58,544 With, with this and to face, um, that racism, uh, is um, an aspect 405 00:25:58,604 --> 00:26:04,485 of our country, of our culture, of our, um, global community. 406 00:26:04,485 --> 00:26:07,965 Uh, although it shows up in different ways and different cultures. 407 00:26:08,385 --> 00:26:12,690 Um, and I think that, that within higher education, That, that is 408 00:26:12,690 --> 00:26:17,520 something that we have to face, um, and have some really uncomfortable 409 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:22,200 conversations, uh, present and future. 410 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:28,350 Um, so I think the reckoning of, of racial injustice, uh, 411 00:26:28,350 --> 00:26:29,790 is definitely at the forefront. 412 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:37,890 Um, I think the other element that we have to really, um, reckon with is, 413 00:26:37,980 --> 00:26:44,745 uh, The environmental, uh, injustice and environmental sustainability. 414 00:26:44,745 --> 00:26:48,015 Loyola is a leader in environmental sustainability. 415 00:26:48,075 --> 00:26:52,455 Um, so I have several colleagues in our school of environmental sustainability. 416 00:26:52,485 --> 00:26:58,880 Um, but you know, the climate change, um, And environmental injustice that, 417 00:26:59,060 --> 00:27:06,800 that, uh, exists is, uh, certainly on the minds of this generation, 418 00:27:07,220 --> 00:27:13,700 um, of college students and of, uh, young professionals who are really 419 00:27:13,700 --> 00:27:20,060 trying to lead us in, in change, um, to address, I think environmental 420 00:27:20,060 --> 00:27:22,970 injustice and, and climate change issues. 421 00:27:24,465 --> 00:27:31,110 And I think the third element that I would say is really at our, um, That higher 422 00:27:31,110 --> 00:27:38,550 education has to to deal with is, uh, you know, the Rogers Park community that 423 00:27:38,550 --> 00:27:44,370 Loyola University of Chicago is in, is a community of immigrants and refugees. 424 00:27:44,490 --> 00:27:48,090 It is one of the most diverse communities in. 425 00:27:48,544 --> 00:27:50,794 The United States of America. 426 00:27:51,425 --> 00:27:58,024 Um, and so with that comes great cultural wealth as students are able to 427 00:27:58,475 --> 00:28:03,754 interact with members of the community, um, who speak different languages, 428 00:28:04,084 --> 00:28:08,705 have fantastic options for restaurants from a variety of different cultures. 429 00:28:09,274 --> 00:28:13,084 Um, but with that comes this, uh, reckoning. 430 00:28:13,245 --> 00:28:19,365 Of the fact that we are a country of immigrants and refugees and that that is 431 00:28:19,365 --> 00:28:25,515 part of the founding of our country, it is part of the evolution of our country. 432 00:28:26,085 --> 00:28:31,605 Um, and it will always be the celebration of our country as 433 00:28:31,605 --> 00:28:32,835 the United States of America. 434 00:28:33,525 --> 00:28:37,155 And how can higher education be a leader? 435 00:28:37,950 --> 00:28:46,379 In reckoning with, uh, immigrants and refugees, um, in really, uh, creating 436 00:28:46,379 --> 00:28:53,399 safe spaces and places as well as making sure that doors are open, uh, so that 437 00:28:53,970 --> 00:29:00,855 all of the individuals that find their way here, uh, Are made welcome and are 438 00:29:00,855 --> 00:29:06,225 provided the opportunities that we hope for our children, the same opportunities 439 00:29:06,225 --> 00:29:07,515 that we hope for our children. 440 00:29:10,515 --> 00:29:13,815 Patrick, When do you wanna run for president? 441 00:29:16,575 --> 00:29:19,425 You didn't realize that was gonna be a practice for a stump speech, right? 442 00:29:21,735 --> 00:29:22,305 Um, no. 443 00:29:22,305 --> 00:29:24,915 It's, uh, it's, it's really amazing what you said. 444 00:29:24,915 --> 00:29:25,335 I think. 445 00:29:25,875 --> 00:29:31,635 I think what you're saying is just, um, you know, these are, this is 446 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:37,275 why I love this idea of service learning and community-based learning, 447 00:29:37,275 --> 00:29:43,455 because these are, you only get to feel passionately about these things 448 00:29:43,455 --> 00:29:45,315 and understand them intimately. 449 00:29:45,315 --> 00:29:49,845 If you go out to the world and look at it, you can't learn this through 450 00:29:50,235 --> 00:29:52,035 a book watching a documentary. 451 00:29:52,455 --> 00:29:54,195 You have to go interact with people. 452 00:29:55,245 --> 00:30:02,925 And you talk to them and you see them, you observe, you, you, you give, and 453 00:30:02,925 --> 00:30:07,065 then you, you know, you try to try, try to get something back and it's 454 00:30:07,065 --> 00:30:12,555 only through all of these types of experiences that you can, um, you know, 455 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:17,415 um, I wanna share something that I'm so glad that this is just a podcast and a, 456 00:30:17,415 --> 00:30:21,825 not like a scholarly defense, cuz I have no idea who actually said this first, 457 00:30:22,005 --> 00:30:23,775 but I, I think I heard Steven Colbert. 458 00:30:24,525 --> 00:30:29,055 Someone from Chicago, well at least had a, a big stint in Chicago, 459 00:30:29,115 --> 00:30:32,085 called Chicago, I think probably his second home or something. 460 00:30:32,625 --> 00:30:36,495 Um, who said, I think one time he said he was talking about service. 461 00:30:37,485 --> 00:30:40,815 I think he was talking about service with the great John Batiste. 462 00:30:41,145 --> 00:30:44,805 Um, the musician who was, who used to be, you know, playing on his 463 00:30:44,805 --> 00:30:47,085 band and now has moved on, became a. 464 00:30:47,445 --> 00:30:49,695 Like, uh, platinum sold out artists. 465 00:30:49,754 --> 00:30:53,145 Um, really pretty amazing, you know, amazing guy, you know, itself. 466 00:30:53,415 --> 00:30:54,525 I think they were talking about service. 467 00:30:54,525 --> 00:30:56,205 I really loved the two of them talking about this. 468 00:30:56,415 --> 00:30:59,595 And Steven Colbert said, uh, something along the lines of 469 00:30:59,595 --> 00:31:01,545 service is love made visible. 470 00:31:02,235 --> 00:31:05,445 Um, and it's very, you know, like you talked a lot about that 471 00:31:05,450 --> 00:31:07,245 learning, you know, made visible and. 472 00:31:07,649 --> 00:31:10,290 And, and, and it also comes back in this circle. 473 00:31:10,290 --> 00:31:13,770 I mean, when you said that, I kept thinking about that little interaction 474 00:31:14,129 --> 00:31:16,440 and, and how beautiful that is. 475 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,170 And I, I think if that doesn't connect with people... 476 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:21,635 What does, yeah. 477 00:31:21,705 --> 00:31:22,545 You know, this is it. 478 00:31:23,295 --> 00:31:24,375 Yeah, absolutely. 479 00:31:24,615 --> 00:31:28,575 It's funny that you say that up on my wall, um, I have a sign that 480 00:31:28,580 --> 00:31:31,155 says Work is love made visible. 481 00:31:33,765 --> 00:31:36,675 And that is, you know, that, that is what I believe. 482 00:31:36,675 --> 00:31:39,915 I mean, for me, that is, that is what this work is. 483 00:31:39,945 --> 00:31:46,965 I mean, it is rooted, um, Uh, in faith it is rooted in, you 484 00:31:46,965 --> 00:31:48,284 know, purpose and meaning. 485 00:31:48,284 --> 00:31:52,995 It is, it is rooted in belief and, um, and I think that's why for 486 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,315 me, community engaged teaching and learning is so important. 487 00:31:57,825 --> 00:32:02,595 And, um, and for me, the answer of why higher education matters. 488 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,970 Well, um, this has been a fascinating conversation, Patrick. 489 00:32:08,975 --> 00:32:11,670 I feel like I can talk to you forever, and I hope that we 490 00:32:11,670 --> 00:32:13,440 do get to continue this again. 491 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:14,160 Uh, at some point. 492 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,200 I feel like this, we're just scratching the surface. 493 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,630 Uh, I, um, I want to thank you again for sharing all your insights. 494 00:32:22,185 --> 00:32:26,445 Telling us about your story, telling us about, you know, the origin 495 00:32:26,445 --> 00:32:31,335 story of how your, your, your, your superhuman abilities came to be. 496 00:32:31,815 --> 00:32:36,555 And, and then also sharing a little bit about, you know, what you have found and 497 00:32:36,555 --> 00:32:41,655 what you have developed over, over that time and, you know, have been able to. 498 00:32:42,390 --> 00:32:48,720 Um, make all of the, all of, all of that possible in, in, and express that in 499 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,290 the form of higher education with your students and with your faculty members. 500 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,000 I think that's just lovely. 501 00:32:54,060 --> 00:33:00,540 Uh, what a, what a great, great way for me to, um, get inspired and I hope 502 00:33:00,570 --> 00:33:02,850 everyone who's listening, uh, as well. 503 00:33:03,330 --> 00:33:07,500 Um, are there any, uh, closing thoughts that you have, uh, 504 00:33:07,530 --> 00:33:09,450 before we, we let you go? 505 00:33:09,450 --> 00:33:11,340 And then, uh, but hopefully, you know how. 506 00:33:11,730 --> 00:33:14,340 Have the opportunity to welcome you back in the near future. 507 00:33:14,970 --> 00:33:20,580 Well, first of all, thank you so much for the time and, and thoughtful questions 508 00:33:20,585 --> 00:33:25,560 and dialogue and, and, um, it has been a, a, a pleasure and I think, you 509 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:35,535 know, uh, My invitation for, um, anyone listening is, uh, to continue to be in 510 00:33:35,535 --> 00:33:43,695 process and to continue to explore, uh, and wherever they may be, uh, uh, maybe 511 00:33:43,695 --> 00:33:45,795 try to explore something new today. 512 00:33:47,295 --> 00:33:47,955 That's lovely. 513 00:33:48,195 --> 00:33:51,735 Next time we'll talk about all the books and the articles and all the other 514 00:33:51,735 --> 00:33:53,595 things that you do that we didn't get to. 515 00:33:53,895 --> 00:33:58,395 But, um, thank you again Patrick, and let's talk again soon. 516 00:33:58,665 --> 00:33:59,475 That sounds great. 517 00:33:59,475 --> 00:34:00,525 I would look forward to it. 518 00:34:01,515 --> 00:34:02,025 Thank you. 519 00:34:02,535 --> 00:34:02,985 Take care. 520 00:34:03,315 --> 00:34:03,585 Bye-bye. 521 00:34:04,485 --> 00:34:08,085 This concludes our conversation to hear our next episode. 522 00:34:08,430 --> 00:34:13,110 Be sure to subscribe to Digication Scholars Conversations on YouTube, iTunes, 523 00:34:13,290 --> 00:34:15,710 Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. 524 00:34:15,710 --> 00:34:20,520 The Digication Scholars Conversation series is brought to you by Digication, 525 00:34:21,180 --> 00:34:25,170 a technology platform powering the most innovative e-portfolio programs 526 00:34:25,170 --> 00:34:26,760 in K-12 and higher education. 527 00:34:27,170 --> 00:34:30,214 Our website can be found at digication.com. 528 00:34:30,545 --> 00:34:33,545 If you enjoyed today's conversation, please like, 529 00:34:33,665 --> 00:34:35,375 subscribe, and share with a friend. 530 00:34:35,915 --> 00:34:36,904 Thanks for tuning in.