WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:25.099 --> 00:00:26.629 Anke: Hello and welcome Megan. 00:00:26.629 --> 00:00:28.939 I'm like super excited to have you here. 00:00:29.659 --> 00:00:30.229 Meghan: Hi. 00:00:30.229 --> 00:00:30.529 Hi. 00:00:30.529 --> 00:00:31.969 I am really excited to be here. 00:00:32.689 --> 00:00:33.439 Anke: Wonderful. 00:00:33.439 --> 00:00:38.689 So let's start out, as we always start, let people know where in this world 00:00:38.689 --> 00:00:42.859 you are from, where you are based, and what's your business with dogs. 00:00:43.009 --> 00:00:43.459 Meghan: Yeah. 00:00:43.489 --> 00:00:44.269 Okay, cool. 00:00:44.269 --> 00:00:49.399 So, I'm originally from Toronto, Canada, um, but I've been in London, England for. 00:00:50.434 --> 00:00:52.714 Coming up to nine years now. 00:00:52.864 --> 00:00:57.634 Um, yeah, I'm, I moved here in my early twenties for six weeks to 00:00:57.634 --> 00:00:59.224 check it out, and clearly I love it. 00:01:01.324 --> 00:01:02.014 Never left. 00:01:02.494 --> 00:01:06.364 Um, and this is kind of where I began my journey with dogs. 00:01:06.424 --> 00:01:09.034 I, um, got the university degree. 00:01:09.034 --> 00:01:13.654 I got a job that I thought I was meant to have, you know, related to my degree. 00:01:13.654 --> 00:01:15.004 And, um. 00:01:15.724 --> 00:01:17.734 I just, I couldn't hack the commute. 00:01:17.764 --> 00:01:20.074 I couldn't hack the sitting in one place. 00:01:20.404 --> 00:01:21.844 I did it for about a year. 00:01:21.874 --> 00:01:23.239 Um, and then what was the job 00:01:23.584 --> 00:01:23.794 Anke: like? 00:01:24.004 --> 00:01:25.474 What, what was the original career? 00:01:25.864 --> 00:01:26.164 Meghan: Yeah. 00:01:26.164 --> 00:01:30.079 I worked in, um, like social enterprise that worked in Oh, okay. 00:01:31.009 --> 00:01:35.749 Um, which, you know, like could have, could have been a pathway for me, 00:01:35.749 --> 00:01:39.649 but it just, um, it didn't, it didn't fit if something felt kind of off. 00:01:40.219 --> 00:01:45.949 Um, and so yeah, I quit and I kind of felt like in total free fall and 00:01:45.949 --> 00:01:47.989 I was like, what am I gonna do now? 00:01:48.439 --> 00:01:49.879 I just wanna be outside. 00:01:49.879 --> 00:01:51.499 I just wanna do something that I love. 00:01:51.589 --> 00:01:54.919 I grew up with dogs and so I got a job at a dog daycare. 00:01:55.924 --> 00:02:01.474 Um, as a dog walker and I worked there for about two months before I got fired, 00:02:03.094 --> 00:02:05.524 which, which was probably for the best. 00:02:05.584 --> 00:02:09.184 Um, me and the, the owner, we didn't really gel. 00:02:09.424 --> 00:02:14.584 She maybe was a bit too into the, like, obedience training, um, 00:02:14.584 --> 00:02:17.254 for her, her dogs and her staff. 00:02:18.964 --> 00:02:23.749 Um, but I think that was like a real blessing in disguise or like 00:02:23.749 --> 00:02:26.749 a real pivot moment in my life because I just thought, well, I'll, 00:02:26.749 --> 00:02:28.459 you know, I'll just do this myself. 00:02:29.089 --> 00:02:32.989 Um, so I started my own dog walking business probably in the same week, 00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:36.979 uh, and just spent a lot of time like in my local park handing out 00:02:36.979 --> 00:02:40.249 flyers to people with dogs, being like, hi, can I walk your dog? 00:02:42.634 --> 00:02:44.434 And it just kind of snowballed from there. 00:02:44.434 --> 00:02:47.794 Like it really kind of like grew quite quickly. 00:02:48.184 --> 00:02:56.464 Um, and I just, yeah, I think that was like such a, a beautiful period of my life 00:02:56.464 --> 00:03:01.774 that kind of like woke me up to like, what now feels like a calling or a purpose. 00:03:01.894 --> 00:03:02.734 Um mm-hmm. 00:03:03.244 --> 00:03:08.314 And yeah, I think the seed for me that started, uh, you know, when I was kind 00:03:08.314 --> 00:03:11.704 of like, do like really good at it and I'm like, what is going on here? 00:03:11.704 --> 00:03:15.664 Like, why am I able to kind of like connect and be with these dogs? 00:03:15.664 --> 00:03:18.814 Like, it was about like energetic attunement. 00:03:19.174 --> 00:03:24.034 Um, and I was really feeling like I had to be present for those dogs in 00:03:24.034 --> 00:03:25.414 order to, you know, not lose them. 00:03:26.014 --> 00:03:27.339 Um, oh, obviously helpful. 00:03:28.204 --> 00:03:28.414 Yeah. 00:03:28.924 --> 00:03:33.424 Um, and it's like in being present, they could feel that and then they 00:03:33.424 --> 00:03:35.674 were more present and more responsive. 00:03:36.064 --> 00:03:41.494 Um, and then in that, I was kind of went through like quite a significant like 00:03:41.524 --> 00:03:46.054 transformational healing process, I would say that then just became this like. 00:03:46.669 --> 00:03:48.859 Positive feedback loop almost. 00:03:49.099 --> 00:03:53.239 Um, and then from there I started to, you know, I had lots of clients who 00:03:53.239 --> 00:03:57.019 really kind of trusted me and so I just started offering training walks with 00:03:57.019 --> 00:03:58.519 the dogs that I was already walking. 00:03:58.519 --> 00:04:00.259 Like, I know your dog pretty well. 00:04:00.499 --> 00:04:02.659 Why don't we go on a walk together and I can kind of show you 00:04:02.959 --> 00:04:04.099 what I've learned about them. 00:04:04.609 --> 00:04:04.759 Oh. 00:04:05.704 --> 00:04:05.764 Anke: Yeah. 00:04:06.004 --> 00:04:07.024 That is very cool. 00:04:07.024 --> 00:04:07.564 I love that. 00:04:07.564 --> 00:04:10.084 So it's not so preachy in a sense. 00:04:10.084 --> 00:04:13.024 Like it's not like here's the, and this is what you do and 00:04:13.024 --> 00:04:14.134 here's where the treat goes. 00:04:14.704 --> 00:04:18.064 So it's more like, let me share with you what I've learned about 00:04:18.064 --> 00:04:19.834 your dog while you were out working. 00:04:20.159 --> 00:04:21.424 Meghan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 00:04:21.424 --> 00:04:22.054 That's awesome. 00:04:22.324 --> 00:04:22.774 Anke: I love that. 00:04:22.779 --> 00:04:22.889 Yeah. 00:04:23.734 --> 00:04:24.004 Meghan: Yeah. 00:04:24.154 --> 00:04:25.624 And it just, um. 00:04:26.344 --> 00:04:30.004 Yeah, it really sparked some like creative energy in me. 00:04:30.304 --> 00:04:30.334 Mm. 00:04:30.604 --> 00:04:35.344 Um, and um, from there I started to develop, um, kind of like, 00:04:35.344 --> 00:04:38.524 well, what are the values that sit underneath the work that I'm doing? 00:04:39.124 --> 00:04:43.594 Um, so the values that I kind of started with and still really apply to my work 00:04:43.594 --> 00:04:48.934 today are, um, attunement, like that idea of like the, um, emotional connection. 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:54.619 Um, curiosity, autonomy, and joy. 00:04:55.069 --> 00:04:55.189 Mm-hmm. 00:04:55.549 --> 00:04:58.969 Um, and it was like those things that kind of were the foundation 00:04:58.969 --> 00:05:00.709 for the framework that I then. 00:05:01.114 --> 00:05:02.974 Developed, um, over time. 00:05:03.214 --> 00:05:07.504 Um, and that was about a five year period of walking dogs and tr and developing, 00:05:07.504 --> 00:05:11.764 working on this framework, um, that has evolved and is always evolving, right? 00:05:11.764 --> 00:05:15.244 Like I'm constantly learning and you know, every session I have and every 00:05:15.244 --> 00:05:17.524 conversation I have with a client, like. 00:05:17.704 --> 00:05:22.444 It, it changes or informs like how I'm doing what I'm doing and why. 00:05:23.014 --> 00:05:27.814 Um, and like, I guess I would say that I went on a para, I, I was 00:05:27.844 --> 00:05:31.324 maybe mentioned that I was on this kind of parallel process of like, I. 00:05:31.714 --> 00:05:35.524 Healing my own stuff, you know, and like being in relationship with 00:05:35.524 --> 00:05:37.984 dogs, like so facilitated that. 00:05:38.014 --> 00:05:38.074 Yeah. 00:05:38.074 --> 00:05:41.584 And every time I learned something over here in the people world, or 00:05:41.584 --> 00:05:46.354 like about our nervous systems or our kind of like reactive responses owing 00:05:46.354 --> 00:05:48.424 to our trauma, I would just be like. 00:05:49.234 --> 00:05:50.854 This is the same for dogs. 00:05:52.084 --> 00:05:52.174 Anke: Mm-hmm. 00:05:52.174 --> 00:05:53.554 We are also similar, isn't it? 00:05:53.614 --> 00:05:54.274 I love that. 00:05:54.604 --> 00:05:55.024 I love that. 00:05:55.024 --> 00:05:58.384 How you just sort of take one step at a time, you know, start 00:05:58.384 --> 00:06:01.264 like, this sounds really like how I started my sewing business. 00:06:01.264 --> 00:06:02.434 Just like, Hey, do you want a dress? 00:06:02.434 --> 00:06:02.584 Right. 00:06:03.184 --> 00:06:07.654 I mean, it's, it's kind of, initially it's, it's hard in the beginning. 00:06:07.864 --> 00:06:10.924 It's like when nobody knows you, but it catches on quickly. 00:06:10.924 --> 00:06:11.224 Right. 00:06:11.524 --> 00:06:14.584 So I'm really curious about, um. 00:06:14.989 --> 00:06:17.929 The framework you mentioned, you know, so do you wanna, do you 00:06:17.929 --> 00:06:19.009 wanna unpack that a little bit? 00:06:19.009 --> 00:06:22.309 Like, is there, like, has it got a name or like, what's the, 00:06:22.489 --> 00:06:23.899 what do they call pieces to it? 00:06:23.899 --> 00:06:25.759 Obviously we're not gonna have time to sort of dig in. 00:06:25.759 --> 00:06:29.389 That's when people can find out more about you and get, get closer. 00:06:29.389 --> 00:06:31.939 But if you wanna have a little kind of overview of the framework. 00:06:33.049 --> 00:06:33.379 Meghan: Yeah. 00:06:33.379 --> 00:06:34.399 Yeah, I would love to. 00:06:34.459 --> 00:06:37.429 Um, it's funny if you've asked if it has a name and I've thought, 00:06:37.429 --> 00:06:40.459 you know, for years, like, why doesn't have this, this have a name? 00:06:41.749 --> 00:06:42.979 I'm not a marketing dude. 00:06:44.449 --> 00:06:46.789 Well, I can, I can go into the pieces, right? 00:06:46.789 --> 00:06:52.969 So, um, you know, a, I guess because of how I began and the language that 00:06:52.969 --> 00:06:56.419 I used was around training and it was about like skills development. 00:06:56.869 --> 00:06:57.469 Um. 00:06:58.159 --> 00:07:02.839 That was maybe how I started, but, um, because I was learning a lot about 00:07:02.839 --> 00:07:07.699 like the nervous system and polyvagal theory and like stuff to do with like 00:07:07.699 --> 00:07:09.769 somatic healing, like in my own life. 00:07:10.189 --> 00:07:14.179 Um, and I started to apply that more with working with dogs and like how I 00:07:14.179 --> 00:07:16.189 was positioning myself in the world. 00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:17.029 Um. 00:07:17.374 --> 00:07:21.694 A lot of my work became about supporting people who dogs are reactive. 00:07:21.694 --> 00:07:23.674 That's in air quotes for people who are listening. 00:07:24.034 --> 00:07:29.074 Um, anxious, fearful, um, you know, so dogs that have any kind of 00:07:29.074 --> 00:07:32.254 like behavioral concerns and, um. 00:07:32.674 --> 00:07:37.564 No, no matter like what the behavioral issue that someone 00:07:37.564 --> 00:07:41.944 kind of comes to me to address, I usually start in the same place. 00:07:42.034 --> 00:07:44.734 And then it is very much emergent when we go from there. 00:07:44.734 --> 00:07:48.184 And I do have kind of like tools and frameworks that we work 00:07:48.184 --> 00:07:52.804 through, but I guess the, um, the seed is always like trying to help 00:07:52.804 --> 00:07:54.754 them understand that the dog is. 00:07:55.504 --> 00:08:00.574 In a reactive state owing to like a dysregulation in their nervous system. 00:08:01.234 --> 00:08:01.354 Mm-hmm. 00:08:01.594 --> 00:08:05.164 Um, and they're acting from a place of fear and not aggression. 00:08:05.254 --> 00:08:10.234 And that can be a trauma response or it can be just, you know, a chronic kind 00:08:10.234 --> 00:08:12.694 of like fear place that they're in. 00:08:13.144 --> 00:08:13.774 Um. 00:08:14.524 --> 00:08:17.314 And because for me the why is so important. 00:08:17.344 --> 00:08:18.784 'cause it informs the what. 00:08:18.874 --> 00:08:22.384 And you know, even people who come to me with less of like a 00:08:22.924 --> 00:08:26.614 obedience background or like, how do I get my dog to stop doing that? 00:08:26.644 --> 00:08:31.024 You know, people still don't necessarily have that framing of understanding. 00:08:31.414 --> 00:08:35.614 And once I can support them to see that, and they can see that, you 00:08:35.614 --> 00:08:39.394 know, your dog is dysregulated, then the approach changes. 00:08:39.394 --> 00:08:39.694 Right? 00:08:39.694 --> 00:08:40.384 We care about. 00:08:41.224 --> 00:08:44.104 Regulating your dog and helping them feel safe, helping them feel 00:08:44.104 --> 00:08:47.974 understood, um, rather than kind of change the behavior, which is kind 00:08:47.974 --> 00:08:50.464 of like more on the surface, right? 00:08:51.004 --> 00:08:51.214 Yeah. 00:08:51.214 --> 00:08:52.804 Um, so that's kind of 00:08:52.984 --> 00:08:54.094 Anke: bandaid kind of stuff. 00:08:54.214 --> 00:08:58.534 So how do you, you know, how does somebody go about, somebody 00:08:58.534 --> 00:09:00.094 goes, oh yeah, nervous system. 00:09:00.094 --> 00:09:00.799 That makes sense. 00:09:01.259 --> 00:09:05.614 You know, so for us, you know, people will go, oh yeah, I can go 00:09:05.614 --> 00:09:10.174 meditation, do meditation, do somatic exercises, that kind of stuff like. 00:09:11.599 --> 00:09:13.129 I have tried yoga with my dog. 00:09:13.129 --> 00:09:15.919 It was very funny, a downward dog, and I'd get my face licked. 00:09:15.979 --> 00:09:19.069 So yoga with a dog did not work well for me. 00:09:20.599 --> 00:09:26.209 So, I mean, what's what, like how do you suggest somebody helps their dog? 00:09:26.824 --> 00:09:27.814 Common nervous system. 00:09:28.294 --> 00:09:28.534 Meghan: Yeah. 00:09:28.534 --> 00:09:28.984 Cool. 00:09:28.984 --> 00:09:30.304 Tha thank you for that question. 00:09:30.364 --> 00:09:35.344 Um, 'cause it, um, well I guess like, so for a few years, like I was working 00:09:35.344 --> 00:09:40.084 with my own tools and the things that I had learned and, um, I have like 00:09:40.084 --> 00:09:42.184 a different like caretaker skills. 00:09:42.184 --> 00:09:44.434 So I often start with the person and I'm like, you know, it's. 00:09:44.769 --> 00:09:46.929 Actually also about your self-regulation. 00:09:47.109 --> 00:09:50.649 It's about your ability to practice attuned communication 00:09:50.649 --> 00:09:54.099 and consent based handling and cultivate your observation skills. 00:09:54.099 --> 00:09:56.259 And so we kind of start with the person. 00:09:56.649 --> 00:09:59.259 Then when we actually look at working with the dog, something 00:09:59.259 --> 00:10:02.949 that, um, slots honestly like it's. 00:10:03.499 --> 00:10:09.079 So, such a, um, transformative approach that I've come across, um, 00:10:09.139 --> 00:10:13.189 two years ago now, I guess, um, is something called Tellington Touch. 00:10:13.999 --> 00:10:14.149 Mm-hmm. 00:10:14.389 --> 00:10:17.029 Um, is, is that, is that familiar? 00:10:17.359 --> 00:10:20.149 Anke: Well, I mean, to me it is, but it might not be to listener. 00:10:20.149 --> 00:10:22.939 So if you can kind of just like un unpack it a little bit. 00:10:23.314 --> 00:10:23.734 Meghan: Sure. 00:10:23.734 --> 00:10:24.004 Yeah. 00:10:24.004 --> 00:10:26.314 So I'm, I've been studying this for the last two years. 00:10:26.314 --> 00:10:29.854 I'm doing my practitioner training, uh, and it's basically like a 00:10:29.854 --> 00:10:36.904 combination of body work, groundwork, um, and observation to support a 00:10:36.904 --> 00:10:42.514 dog to, um, change their posture and improve their physical ballads. 00:10:42.604 --> 00:10:43.114 Um. 00:10:43.589 --> 00:10:48.179 Because there's, I guess the, the theory behind it is that our physical balance and 00:10:48.179 --> 00:10:53.459 our posture, uh, influences our emotional balance and our, our mental balance. 00:10:54.389 --> 00:10:55.319 Anke: Well, that makes sense. 00:10:55.949 --> 00:10:56.069 Yeah. 00:10:56.069 --> 00:10:58.294 I mean, we know it's like I. 00:10:58.834 --> 00:11:00.514 And you feel kind of different instantly. 00:11:00.514 --> 00:11:00.814 Right. 00:11:00.814 --> 00:11:02.044 So that would make sense. 00:11:02.494 --> 00:11:03.004 Meghan: Yeah. 00:11:03.004 --> 00:11:03.364 Yeah. 00:11:03.364 --> 00:11:04.264 Exactly right. 00:11:04.264 --> 00:11:08.044 And often what I kind of ask my clients to do when I'm trying to, um, 00:11:08.074 --> 00:11:12.094 explain that is, you know, get them to think about a recent difficult 00:11:12.094 --> 00:11:13.504 conversation that they've had. 00:11:13.834 --> 00:11:17.644 And, um, for anyone listening, you know, you can do that too. 00:11:17.644 --> 00:11:21.244 Think of something that was a bit, a bit difficult, a challenge at work, a 00:11:21.244 --> 00:11:22.864 conversation with a boss or something. 00:11:22.864 --> 00:11:25.234 And try and have that conversation in your mind. 00:11:25.234 --> 00:11:25.594 Well. 00:11:26.019 --> 00:11:31.389 You know, like scrunching up your, your face and tensing your shoulders and being 00:11:31.389 --> 00:11:37.149 quite like inward and think about what that, the feeling tone of that is, right. 00:11:37.209 --> 00:11:40.419 And then try and reimagine that conversation again. 00:11:40.419 --> 00:11:45.699 But you've kind of exhaled, you've got your feet in line with your hips in 00:11:45.699 --> 00:11:49.449 line with your shoulders, and you're just a bit more kind of like open. 00:11:50.109 --> 00:11:52.779 And the feeling tone of that is quite different. 00:11:52.899 --> 00:11:55.119 And it's just the same for dogs. 00:11:56.914 --> 00:11:58.864 Anke: I love it because it's so true though, right? 00:11:58.864 --> 00:12:01.234 And when the problem is it works both ways. 00:12:01.294 --> 00:12:05.734 Like it works in a good way, but it also, you know, like if we are tense, 00:12:05.734 --> 00:12:09.454 they also pick it up, you know, so it's like so connected that kind 00:12:09.454 --> 00:12:11.014 of can backfire in a way, right? 00:12:11.494 --> 00:12:12.724 Meghan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:12:12.724 --> 00:12:13.204 Totally. 00:12:13.204 --> 00:12:13.504 Right. 00:12:13.504 --> 00:12:17.044 And that's why this kind of piece around atunement is so important, 00:12:17.134 --> 00:12:21.874 um, because if a to is that bridge between the human and the dog, right? 00:12:21.874 --> 00:12:22.264 Like. 00:12:22.909 --> 00:12:27.139 Our own embodied experience and our own ability to like self-regulate in those 00:12:27.139 --> 00:12:30.589 moments is so, um, a part of that puzzle. 00:12:31.099 --> 00:12:31.399 Yeah, 00:12:32.119 --> 00:12:34.969 Anke: and I think actually when I look at my own experience, I think. 00:12:35.989 --> 00:12:40.189 Dogs can really like teach us in that, in that way. 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:41.839 Like I had here Mr. 00:12:41.899 --> 00:12:46.519 Mr Kay, and he was like, you know, really horrible start to his like little life. 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:50.029 And then he, and when I got him he would constantly, where's Kay? 00:12:50.029 --> 00:12:51.739 He'd be hiding in some flower pot. 00:12:51.979 --> 00:12:54.229 Like, he'd literally be hiding all the time, right? 00:12:54.469 --> 00:12:55.279 So. 00:12:55.634 --> 00:12:59.144 And he was very sort of very sensitive, very skittish, very nervous. 00:12:59.144 --> 00:13:03.344 And, and so, so you can imagine going for a walk with him in the historic 00:13:03.344 --> 00:13:07.844 part of town where there's like noises bouncing off and it'd be like, you know, 00:13:07.844 --> 00:13:11.114 it wasn't much fun with him, you know, he was like such a polar, like crazy. 00:13:11.114 --> 00:13:14.774 And sometimes, but sometimes it was better than or worse than others, you know? 00:13:14.774 --> 00:13:18.824 And I came to the point where I'm like, for God sake, you know? 00:13:18.824 --> 00:13:19.934 And then it was like, wait. 00:13:19.934 --> 00:13:19.994 Yeah. 00:13:21.439 --> 00:13:23.514 How am I, I'm all right. 00:13:24.264 --> 00:13:29.179 Like, I'm, you know, and I'm like, well, and then I would make a conscious 00:13:29.179 --> 00:13:34.639 effort to, you know, breathe, touch a tree and kind of like, you know, and, 00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:39.709 and all of a sudden the dog would slow, like calm down as well, you know, so 00:13:39.709 --> 00:13:43.849 it's, it's easy to see and I think they can almost bring to light a lot 00:13:43.849 --> 00:13:45.709 of the time what's going on with us. 00:13:45.709 --> 00:13:46.039 Right. 00:13:46.939 --> 00:13:48.199 Meghan: Yeah, yeah, totally. 00:13:48.259 --> 00:13:49.459 Breathe and touch a tree. 00:13:49.459 --> 00:13:51.169 That's, that's medicine right there. 00:13:52.999 --> 00:13:57.229 Um, and yeah, so it's, so I just think it's like so important to think about 00:13:57.649 --> 00:13:59.749 how we're showing up in those moments. 00:13:59.809 --> 00:14:03.829 Um, and then thinking on the other side, like for the dog, like, well, 00:14:03.889 --> 00:14:07.909 you know, if your dog is walking down the street and they hear a sound and 00:14:08.119 --> 00:14:13.279 they hear a cyclist or there's a kid running around and like every time they 00:14:13.339 --> 00:14:15.349 are a bit experience that arousal like. 00:14:15.749 --> 00:14:17.069 What are they doing with their body? 00:14:17.069 --> 00:14:17.369 Right? 00:14:17.369 --> 00:14:21.869 They're gonna be probably contracting and tensing in the same way. 00:14:22.289 --> 00:14:22.349 Yeah. 00:14:22.379 --> 00:14:26.249 Um, and then once that kind of happens chronically, right? 00:14:26.249 --> 00:14:28.049 That becomes their, their habit. 00:14:28.049 --> 00:14:29.099 Their posture, right? 00:14:29.309 --> 00:14:32.909 And so I think having this more body-based approach that, 00:14:33.209 --> 00:14:35.309 um, works directly with like. 00:14:35.614 --> 00:14:39.514 Um, supporting them to change their posture through, through 00:14:39.514 --> 00:14:42.994 body work, through groundwork, through non habitual movement. 00:14:42.994 --> 00:14:47.914 It's just like the, the changes that I've seen have been unlike anything I've 00:14:47.914 --> 00:14:49.519 seen in the years prior to doing it. 00:14:49.659 --> 00:14:50.559 Um, I. 00:14:52.174 --> 00:14:54.664 Anke: I mean, it makes, it makes all, all the sense in the world. 00:14:54.664 --> 00:14:59.644 And is that something that, that you teach the owners or is that something 00:14:59.644 --> 00:15:03.394 that, um, you know, they'll come to you for and you teach the dog? 00:15:03.394 --> 00:15:04.744 Or how, how does that work? 00:15:05.464 --> 00:15:05.974 Meghan: Hmm, yeah. 00:15:05.974 --> 00:15:07.294 So, um. 00:15:08.974 --> 00:15:11.374 The, the, we do, we do a lot in the session. 00:15:11.374 --> 00:15:17.884 So, um, I, I slot it into, um, my kind of framework, but I will run a 00:15:17.884 --> 00:15:20.284 session like a, like a TTouch session. 00:15:20.314 --> 00:15:23.584 I'm permitted to do that even though I'm not a certified practitioner 00:15:23.584 --> 00:15:26.974 yet, 'cause I'm already or a professional, like working with dogs. 00:15:27.304 --> 00:15:29.824 Um, but I, I do a lot of like. 00:15:30.374 --> 00:15:34.844 Observation, like how is the dog, um, coping in their environment? 00:15:34.844 --> 00:15:36.794 How are they moving around in their body? 00:15:36.794 --> 00:15:39.194 Are they putting all of their weight on all four of their paws? 00:15:39.194 --> 00:15:40.544 Like, what's going on? 00:15:40.544 --> 00:15:41.654 What's getting in their way? 00:15:41.774 --> 00:15:46.634 And as I do that, I am sharing that information with the caretaker 00:15:46.634 --> 00:15:50.534 and sh and like kind of, you know, asking them what they're observing 00:15:50.534 --> 00:15:53.714 as well and trying to kind of guide them along the process with me. 00:15:54.074 --> 00:15:57.074 And then kind of based on whatever the observations then that's. 00:15:57.679 --> 00:15:59.299 That's gonna inform the intervention. 00:15:59.299 --> 00:16:04.159 So, um, if someone's coming to me and they're saying, oh, my dog gets 00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:08.029 really startled with noise all the time, and then I might see that the 00:16:08.029 --> 00:16:12.439 dog has kind of an ear that's a bit asymmetrical, maybe they need some ear 00:16:12.439 --> 00:16:18.374 work and some support to kind of like release whatever's going on there. 00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:23.479 Um, and so I'll do the, the touch work in the session. 00:16:23.689 --> 00:16:24.379 Um. 00:16:25.069 --> 00:16:27.979 Or, you know, or the groundwork, which was more like, kind of like moving 00:16:27.979 --> 00:16:31.939 the dog through different elements in like a very slow and intentional 00:16:31.939 --> 00:16:35.809 way to influence their proprioception and their vestibular system. 00:16:36.169 --> 00:16:39.649 Um, but then at the end we kind of like wrap up and there's 00:16:39.649 --> 00:16:41.029 always, there's always homework. 00:16:41.029 --> 00:16:44.779 There's always like tools that they can take with them because, well, I also 00:16:44.779 --> 00:16:48.679 think is so powerful about TTouch is that you don't need to be a practitioner 00:16:48.889 --> 00:16:50.749 to like have an impact, right? 00:16:50.749 --> 00:16:52.699 There's quite simple. 00:16:55.159 --> 00:16:59.179 Tools and like the combination of just knowing the basics and knowing 00:16:59.179 --> 00:17:03.169 your dog and trusting your intuition, like you can have a, a real impact. 00:17:03.619 --> 00:17:03.679 Anke: Hmm. 00:17:04.069 --> 00:17:07.249 And that makes it more powerful because, you know, not everybody's 00:17:07.249 --> 00:17:09.889 gonna have to, oh, you know, it's, it's just like massages. 00:17:09.889 --> 00:17:11.539 You know, you think, well, they're kind of nice, but if I 00:17:11.539 --> 00:17:13.429 have to go to, to one every week. 00:17:14.459 --> 00:17:19.019 Then it becomes a less optimal kind of solution if you're sort of dependent 00:17:19.019 --> 00:17:20.639 on, on the treatment in a way. 00:17:20.699 --> 00:17:20.969 You know? 00:17:20.969 --> 00:17:25.799 So if there is something that people can do by themselves with their dog, 00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:30.479 you know, doesn't mean you shouldn't go back to the practitioner, but the day 00:17:30.479 --> 00:17:33.689 to day, you know, if you can actually do something without needing the 00:17:33.689 --> 00:17:37.709 professional help all the time, I think that makes it more usable for people. 00:17:37.709 --> 00:17:37.799 Right. 00:17:40.084 --> 00:17:40.444 Meghan: Yeah. 00:17:40.444 --> 00:17:40.744 Yeah. 00:17:40.744 --> 00:17:42.754 It's a really, really accessible tool. 00:17:42.754 --> 00:17:46.234 And it actually, like the kind of principles or like what we're like 00:17:46.234 --> 00:17:50.404 trying to influence in the body, like actually benefits from less, not more 00:17:50.404 --> 00:17:52.834 like, because it's not, doesn't, uh. 00:17:53.659 --> 00:17:54.889 Have you gone, oh no, you're here. 00:17:55.009 --> 00:17:55.249 Sorry. 00:17:55.249 --> 00:17:58.064 Oh, sorry, sorry. 00:17:58.069 --> 00:17:59.899 My, my laptop went strange for a second. 00:17:59.959 --> 00:18:05.059 Um, but it's not actually aiming to influence the musculoskeletal system. 00:18:05.059 --> 00:18:08.239 It works with the nervous system and it works with the fascia and the nervous 00:18:08.239 --> 00:18:10.879 system doesn't like, need a lot, right? 00:18:10.879 --> 00:18:15.769 To actually be able to like, experience a shift, be offered a new neural pathway. 00:18:15.769 --> 00:18:18.079 So, you know, you can, um. 00:18:18.679 --> 00:18:20.989 One of my clients once called it constructive cuddles. 00:18:21.019 --> 00:18:25.489 'cause it's like you can just do it for like 20 seconds to, to a couple minutes at 00:18:25.489 --> 00:18:29.719 a time, and you actually can like really influence the nervous system of the dog. 00:18:30.439 --> 00:18:32.449 Anke: Oh, constructive cuddles. 00:18:32.449 --> 00:18:33.769 That's like so cute. 00:18:34.879 --> 00:18:34.939 Yeah. 00:18:34.939 --> 00:18:37.159 It's almost like permission to cuddle, like I'm all in. 00:18:38.569 --> 00:18:39.259 Yeah, yeah. 00:18:39.259 --> 00:18:42.079 Always kind of try and hold back a bit because, you know, most dogs 00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:45.049 don't really like it, you know, so, and we kind of really like it, 00:18:45.049 --> 00:18:46.609 but like, oh, constructive cuddles. 00:18:46.609 --> 00:18:47.334 Now there is an idea. 00:18:49.099 --> 00:18:50.269 Meghan: Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:18:50.269 --> 00:18:53.449 A lot, a lot of the work that I do is supporting people to think of, 00:18:53.509 --> 00:18:56.989 to reevaluate the way that they engage in, in touch with their dog. 00:18:56.989 --> 00:18:58.969 Because you're right there is like, you know. 00:18:59.159 --> 00:19:04.079 A lot of ways that we do touch dogs that kind of, we do non thinkingly 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:08.099 that might actually be contributing to arousal or not necessarily being 00:19:08.099 --> 00:19:09.329 something that the dog enjoys. 00:19:09.329 --> 00:19:14.999 But this actually kind of asks you to kind of just take a second, get 00:19:14.999 --> 00:19:19.079 in your body, look at what the dog might need and like ask them if 00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:21.269 you can touch them in that way. 00:19:21.629 --> 00:19:21.869 Mm-hmm. 00:19:21.869 --> 00:19:25.199 Um, and t touch is very much a lot about like feedback. 00:19:25.199 --> 00:19:28.319 So you do it for like 10, 20 seconds and then you just stop. 00:19:29.489 --> 00:19:31.834 Anke: And then you'll see whether they lean in or walk off. 00:19:32.134 --> 00:19:32.914 Meghan: Exactly. 00:19:32.914 --> 00:19:34.564 Or do a shake or whatever it is. 00:19:34.564 --> 00:19:35.914 And then, you know, you go back. 00:19:35.914 --> 00:19:40.774 And so, you know, going back to that example of the dog who might need some 00:19:40.834 --> 00:19:44.074 ear work, if I identify that, I'm not gonna just start touching the dog's 00:19:44.074 --> 00:19:45.664 ears 'cause that might feel intense. 00:19:45.694 --> 00:19:46.024 Right. 00:19:46.024 --> 00:19:50.344 So it's about like finding the entry point, finding like what feels good 00:19:50.344 --> 00:19:54.484 for them, and then kind of slowly through that process of like doing 00:19:54.484 --> 00:19:58.114 it a bit, stopping, waiting for feedback, working towards the ears. 00:19:58.114 --> 00:19:58.474 So. 00:19:58.489 --> 00:20:04.519 It also gives the dog the experience of being handled in a way that is consensual. 00:20:04.789 --> 00:20:06.859 Um, so it's quite trust building as well. 00:20:07.219 --> 00:20:07.999 Anke: Mm, yeah. 00:20:07.999 --> 00:20:11.749 I think there's more and more people talking about that, that um, idea of 00:20:11.749 --> 00:20:14.179 giving the dog as much agency as possible. 00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:18.049 You know, where we kind of, so used to, well, not me, but, but 00:20:18.049 --> 00:20:20.809 like, I remember actually I had a neighbor, they had a guide dog. 00:20:21.084 --> 00:20:21.504 You know? 00:20:21.509 --> 00:20:21.649 Yeah. 00:20:21.804 --> 00:20:25.704 And so that poor dog was like on like working all the time, you know? 00:20:25.884 --> 00:20:30.414 And then the moment they'd unclip her and like, okay, now she got ordered to 00:20:30.414 --> 00:20:33.324 do a wee somewhere like now and here. 00:20:33.804 --> 00:20:34.164 Yeah. 00:20:34.164 --> 00:20:37.404 You know, like that dog didn't even, wasn't even allowed to breathe by herself. 00:20:37.464 --> 00:20:37.794 Right. 00:20:37.854 --> 00:20:37.914 Yeah. 00:20:37.914 --> 00:20:41.664 And it's like, oh God no, I don't wanna be in her, in her pause. 00:20:41.664 --> 00:20:42.204 For sure. 00:20:42.204 --> 00:20:42.324 So, yeah. 00:20:45.084 --> 00:20:49.329 So is this something that where you think like, okay, uh, once we've got. 00:20:50.959 --> 00:20:55.309 The dog kind of like calmed down or regulated a bit, then 00:20:55.549 --> 00:20:59.689 it's that, or is this something that would turn into a habit? 00:20:59.689 --> 00:21:03.409 It's something that you'll always do or, or is it like, okay, 00:21:03.409 --> 00:21:05.119 once they kind of know how to. 00:21:05.914 --> 00:21:10.114 Calm themselves down, then we're kind of good, or, or would you always like, 00:21:10.654 --> 00:21:13.414 just like with meditation we say, well, you know, you might not need 00:21:13.414 --> 00:21:15.334 to necessarily, but it's a good idea. 00:21:15.334 --> 00:21:17.404 Or, you know, how, how does it work? 00:21:17.854 --> 00:21:18.814 Meghan: Yeah, yeah, for sure. 00:21:18.904 --> 00:21:22.504 Um, well, like, you know, every case is, is different. 00:21:22.504 --> 00:21:25.864 And, um, sometimes I'm in a session and I do something with 00:21:25.864 --> 00:21:27.334 a dog and we just see them. 00:21:27.649 --> 00:21:30.709 Change their posture in like in immediate way. 00:21:30.709 --> 00:21:32.959 And it's a bit like weird magic. 00:21:33.649 --> 00:21:36.409 Um, and sometimes it is more about the kind of like 00:21:36.679 --> 00:21:39.049 consistent, still putting it in. 00:21:39.109 --> 00:21:43.489 Um, one tool that they use, which IT touch uses, which I really, 00:21:43.489 --> 00:21:45.559 really love is, um, body wraps. 00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:50.419 So kind of using like, um, ace bandages, elastic catered, kind of stretchy 00:21:50.419 --> 00:21:56.209 bandages to, uh, wrap the dog up in a certain way and like bring them. 00:21:56.464 --> 00:21:58.264 Into movement in that wrap. 00:21:58.414 --> 00:22:01.444 And what it does is it offers feedback into the nervous system and 00:22:01.654 --> 00:22:03.934 influences the proprioceptive system. 00:22:04.264 --> 00:22:07.654 Um, for people who aren't familiar with that, where is, it's like basically, 00:22:07.984 --> 00:22:12.064 um, your body's understanding of the body parts in relation to each 00:22:12.064 --> 00:22:13.444 other and the space around you. 00:22:13.444 --> 00:22:18.964 So if I've got kind of chronic tension in my shoulders, um, if I put a wrap 00:22:18.964 --> 00:22:23.464 on myself, I might, my brain might send a signal being like, why are my ears. 00:22:23.464 --> 00:22:24.724 So close to my shoulders. 00:22:26.014 --> 00:22:30.274 Um, and then through that I kind of relax and that changes my posture, 00:22:30.274 --> 00:22:31.654 it changes my holding pattern. 00:22:32.074 --> 00:22:37.504 And so applying a wrap every day for up to 20 minutes for a period of time, 00:22:37.504 --> 00:22:42.034 you know, different for every case, but that can have that lasting impact. 00:22:42.364 --> 00:22:45.124 Um, and, but you don't need to do it every day forever. 00:22:45.124 --> 00:22:48.094 It becomes a case that, you know, you might do it occasionally for 00:22:48.094 --> 00:22:52.024 maintenance, but these tools can have a profound lasting effect. 00:22:52.744 --> 00:22:53.314 Anke: Mm. 00:22:53.434 --> 00:22:56.824 And it does make sense because I think once you are getting used to 00:22:56.824 --> 00:23:01.444 being aware of that, you know, like I remember that, um, when I was living 00:23:01.444 --> 00:23:05.494 in London for all, all places there, I used to go to Tai Chi classes, right? 00:23:05.494 --> 00:23:10.144 And the, I remember the very first class, the guy goes, okay, go and, you know, 00:23:10.144 --> 00:23:11.884 stand there and relax your shoulders. 00:23:11.884 --> 00:23:15.064 And so you rack your shoulders and he would come and goes, 00:23:15.064 --> 00:23:16.159 you've done yoga, haven't you? 00:23:17.314 --> 00:23:17.584 Meghan: You 00:23:17.584 --> 00:23:18.064 Anke: know? 00:23:18.274 --> 00:23:20.614 And he says, I could tell. 00:23:21.529 --> 00:23:25.999 The way you relax your shoulders and somebody who hasn't got that bodily, 00:23:25.999 --> 00:23:29.509 like that physical awareness, you know, he says like, they're kind of like this. 00:23:29.509 --> 00:23:33.169 And then you kind of say, you relax your shoulder and they go kind of like that. 00:23:33.409 --> 00:23:33.919 You know? 00:23:33.949 --> 00:23:36.079 So it's, it's like, and he says, you can tell. 00:23:36.539 --> 00:23:42.329 Who's done like ballet or, or gymnastics or, or kind of any, anything that requires 00:23:42.329 --> 00:23:47.519 you to be like really consciously aware of your body and how it's placed in space. 00:23:47.909 --> 00:23:51.989 You know, so you could tell immediately, you know, and I think it feels, it sounds 00:23:51.989 --> 00:23:54.119 like, oh yeah, same for dogs, right? 00:23:54.479 --> 00:23:59.039 So it's almost like once they realized like, oh, actually, hmm. 00:23:59.909 --> 00:24:00.899 Is that, is that correct? 00:24:00.899 --> 00:24:01.979 Or am I making this up? 00:24:02.369 --> 00:24:02.759 Meghan: No, no, no. 00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:04.739 That's, that's bang on basically, right? 00:24:04.739 --> 00:24:07.649 It's like, you know, they don't, if we're talking about a 00:24:07.649 --> 00:24:09.539 habit, a postural habit, right? 00:24:09.539 --> 00:24:13.829 And so if you're in that place where your shoulders are chronically tense or your 00:24:13.829 --> 00:24:18.269 a dog and your ears are constantly back, or a lot of, you know, you can map on 00:24:18.269 --> 00:24:22.319 some of the more behavioral or emotional responses to how they hold themselves. 00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:27.299 So like, um, a tucked tail is a, is a, is a fear, um, pattern, right? 00:24:27.299 --> 00:24:28.649 Which we're probably familiar with. 00:24:28.649 --> 00:24:31.349 But, um, um. 00:24:31.544 --> 00:24:31.874 Yeah. 00:24:31.874 --> 00:24:35.414 Like if we, if they're doing that, they're doing that non thinkingly, that's a habit. 00:24:35.474 --> 00:24:40.004 And that often, um, you know, tensing yourself in that way, in a way that 00:24:40.004 --> 00:24:43.874 doesn't like help you use your body effectively is probably quite painful. 00:24:44.204 --> 00:24:47.054 And so how does our, how does our brain deal with pain? 00:24:47.054 --> 00:24:47.324 Right? 00:24:47.324 --> 00:24:47.654 It like. 00:24:47.824 --> 00:24:49.774 Disaggregates parts of our body. 00:24:50.134 --> 00:24:55.114 Um, so that that dog with a tucked tail might not have a lot of awareness in 00:24:55.114 --> 00:24:56.494 their hind quarters, in their tail. 00:24:56.494 --> 00:24:56.854 Right. 00:24:57.244 --> 00:25:01.534 Um, and so by using these different practices and tools, you can help 00:25:01.534 --> 00:25:05.614 them bring that part of their body back online and then, then yeah. 00:25:05.614 --> 00:25:10.204 They have that awareness and they have that ability to kind of like move, 00:25:10.384 --> 00:25:12.154 uh, in a way that is more integrated. 00:25:13.249 --> 00:25:14.329 Anke: That makes so much sense. 00:25:14.629 --> 00:25:18.439 So where can people go and uh, you know, do you work online or 00:25:18.439 --> 00:25:19.969 do you strictly work locally? 00:25:19.969 --> 00:25:22.489 Or how can people find out more? 00:25:22.489 --> 00:25:23.059 And you know, I. 00:25:23.854 --> 00:25:24.514 Get your help. 00:25:24.874 --> 00:25:25.084 Meghan: Yeah. 00:25:25.084 --> 00:25:25.474 Great. 00:25:25.474 --> 00:25:25.864 Thank you. 00:25:25.954 --> 00:25:31.894 Um, so yeah, I recently started, uh, a Substack and I'm trying 00:25:31.894 --> 00:25:36.514 to be a bit more online and been doing this for six years now. 00:25:36.514 --> 00:25:41.674 And, um, I, I work locally, but I am, I'm like ready to reach a bit further. 00:25:41.674 --> 00:25:45.814 So I've got, um, a substack that is free and then there's a paid. 00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:50.729 Version that is more about like kind of getting the, the live coaching 00:25:50.729 --> 00:25:54.209 and the direct support about what's going on with people and their dogs. 00:25:54.599 --> 00:26:00.989 Um, otherwise, yeah, I do online, um, coaching sessions, um, which can have a 00:26:00.989 --> 00:26:04.859 benefit and there are elements of TTouch that can definitely be taught online. 00:26:05.249 --> 00:26:10.109 Um, and then, yeah, I'm based in East London for those who are local. 00:26:10.759 --> 00:26:11.149 Anke: Awesome. 00:26:11.149 --> 00:26:11.479 Awesome. 00:26:11.479 --> 00:26:14.239 So obviously we're gonna have the link right below this, so I'm 00:26:14.239 --> 00:26:15.559 not gonna make it hard to find. 00:26:15.829 --> 00:26:16.909 Thank you so much. 00:26:17.059 --> 00:26:20.059 I was absolutely, you know, it's lovely to speak to somebody from London 00:26:20.059 --> 00:26:22.069 where I used to live, and so Yeah. 00:26:22.069 --> 00:26:25.429 And I love, I love what you're doing and I love how you're bringing, you know, 00:26:25.429 --> 00:26:29.749 the, the, the human things and the, the how you bring that together in, in this 00:26:29.779 --> 00:26:31.909 lovely and wonderfully accessible way. 00:26:31.909 --> 00:26:32.779 So thank you. 00:26:32.959 --> 00:26:33.374 Meghan: Thank you so much. 00:26:33.404 --> 00:26:33.696 Yeah, so much. 00:26:34.129 --> 00:26:35.629 It's been a real pleasure being on here. 00:26:35.629 --> 00:26:36.589 Thank you for having me. 00:26:37.009 --> 00:26:37.189 Anke: Thank 00:26:37.189 --> 00:26:37.519 Meghan: you. 00:26:37.549 --> 00:26:37.579 Okay. 00:26:39.419 --> 00:26:40.649 Thanks so much for listening. 00:26:41.169 --> 00:26:45.469 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:26:45.569 --> 00:26:47.349 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:26:48.139 --> 00:26:51.629 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:26:52.059 --> 00:26:57.629 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:26:57.729 --> 00:27:00.099 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:27:00.099 --> 00:27:03.829 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:27:04.249 --> 00:27:05.389 I'd love an introduction. 00:27:05.869 --> 00:27:07.699 Email me at Anke. 00:27:07.969 --> 00:27:12.204 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.