The Modern Hotelier - Episode #2
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Max Starkov: Technology is the only way going forward in our industry and until we realize that. we'll be paying the price. Welcome to The Modern Hotelier presented by Stayflexi. I'm your host, David. Maloley

Steve Carran: And I'm a co-host, Steve Carran. 

Steve 

David Millili: Who do we have with us today? 

Steve Carran: Yeah, David, today we have on Mr. Max Starkov. Max was formerly the CEO and co-founder of travelbreak.com and Whale Media Technologies. More recently, max was the CEO of Hebs which we gave Next Guest and eventually merged with Cendyn. Currently, max is an adjunct professor at NYU, a professor of digital strategy at Laroche Global Hospitality.

Max, did I get that right? 

Max Starkov: Yeah, 

Steve Carran: good. And, uh, he's also, uh, online contributor to quite a few hospitality outlets, and also an advisor to Book Out Doors. Welcome to the show. Max, we're happy to have you! 

Max Starkov: Well, it's a, it's my pleasure. So what w what shall we talk about?

David Millili: So we're going to go through three areas. I'm going to ask you some quick questions. You're going to answer them with short answers or, or longer answers. Just so the audience gets to know you a little bit better. You're the hardest working man on LinkedIn. You know, you're posting every, it seems like every, you know, 10, 15 minutes, which is great. And you always give great perspective that I think is really appreciated, by the hospitality community. The second part, we're going to ask you really some more professional, questions about your career. And then finally, we're going to try to get some insight into what's going on in hospitality and the industry and trends. So with that I'll kick it off. So, Max, what was your first job in hospitality?Listen, I come from Bulgaria. Actually, I was born and raised in communist Bulgaria back in the day. So, tourism international tourism is the number one economy in the country. So it was very natural for me to gravitate toward, uh, tourism in general and hospitality in particular. I mean, I did my undergraduate hospitality studies and my first master's degree in hospitality studies again at,the largest university in the country office state university.

Max Starkov: And then, uh, I worked, for a British tour operator on the black sea, ski resorts, uh, up in the mountains. I was a general manager of a club hotel. and so forth. I worked as a, professional meeting planner for the main, international events company in the country, including the, uh,you know, the UNESCO general assembly, 5,000 people, including, the world tourism organization, again, the 3,500 people and so forth.

I was a chief organizer of those events. I worked for the main, hospitality, chain in the, in the, in the country that owned, basically it was the government monopoly that on all of the international hotels in the country. I worked in corporate, and I worked at the ministry of tourism, which was, basically the, you know, the. But government body that dealt with, international tourism in the country. ,And, actually I came to New York city as the director of the Bulgarian government tourism office back in 89. So in this sense, my whole career, you know, since, undergraduate degree, have been in, in the hospitality and tourism, in general.

David Millili: What line of work you think, and you would have been in, if you didn't get into the hospitality?

Max Starkov: It's very interesting because, you know, my, my father will say professor in journalism and in literature and when all of the other kids, enjoyed the company of their fathers, who took them to the games, you know, soccer games, or they played with them. My father was reading and writing and I, and you know, when I was a kid, I said, I would neverwrite. Or, and I would never teach in my life. And actually that's what I'm doing for, for the last, uh, 30 years, at least. So, I mean, uh, you mentioned that, I teach at NYU. I mean, this, this has been since 2001. And David, do you know that you also taught at NYU, the Tisch center. 2001, so it's 21 years now.

I'm an adjunct adjunct professor at NYU. And then the last three years at LaRoche. So we'll never say never that's that's the whole point. And, uh, and by the way, there's a, there comes a time when simply want to share your experience with the next generations of hoteliers, if you will. So, that's that's why I'm doing this.

It's not the monetary rewards or anything like this. I don't, I don't need that. It just, uh, I want to share with, uh,With an agenda ration center, hopefully, help them avoid some some of the mistakes that I've made when I was building my career.

David Millili: I agree. If you could trade places with someone for a day, who would it be?

My goodness. I mean, uh,one of my, one of my absolute, idols today is a Elon Musk. I mean, I think that he's the only living genius on this planet today. So I would like maybe not to replace him, but just to spend the day with him and see what, what his,line of thinking and what his, uh,how does he spend a typical day?

Max Starkov: So this, this would be one of my dream. If you will.

Steve Carran: are you going to be on one of the first trips to Mars with Elon Musk. 

Max Starkov: I would love to do it. I mean, I can follow has been fascinated with, with technology and the space and so forth, and I would love to do it believe even, even at, at my age, I am. I'm willing to go. 

Steve Carran: All right. Well, if you do make it to Mars, you have to be on our podcast on Mars. 

Max Starkov: I will 

Steve Carran: You heard it here. 

David Millili: Max do you have, do you have a secret talent that nobody knows?

I don't know about secret talents.. I mean, I'm extremely self-disciplined. I mean, I spent five years in a boarding school, one of these elite schools in, in Bulgaria, in my native country. And then the two years, 25 months in the military, which was Manda, mandatory back then So in this sense, it's instilled discipline, which I think that it's very beneficial. So I'm very self-disciplined and maybe this is one of the things that helped me in life. Organized, I would say. And I, I like to take deep dive in any subject matter that I touch. And so in this sense, uh,just more above and beyond what, what your job requirements are, if you will. Just to see how things connect and to be able to see things in 3d. I have always wanted to go and find the all the, the connections and the bigger picture, if you will. So maybe, maybe that's that's, what's helped me. In my

Max Starkov: life. 

David Millili: great. Do you, have you been in New York many, many years? What's your favorite restaurant? If you had one restaurant you can go to?

I have so many restaurants. I mean, I laugh. I'm a, I'm a foodie. I love, you know, the restaurant scene in New York City, it's always changing. I mean, I lived 16 years on the upper east side. And actually I was there a few days ago, visiting, uh, some appointment there and everything has changed. I mean, there's only one store that, that remains from my time in the upper east side.

Max Starkov: So here in the upper west side, where I live in my hat and it's restaurants have changed even the last, I mean, 10 years, the restaurants have changed. The, new restaurants are coming. All of them. Favorite restaurants of simply being a. Especially now during the pandemic being decimated, if you will. So a lot of good restaurants closed because of the pandemic.

And because I follow this, uh, quite often completely random and irrational mandates that we imposed on our industry. No, we can. Anyway, it's just the, don't start me on that. about the irrationality of many of them. Uh, in our industry. So, but the many good restaurants, and many stores, but it's not only restaurant.

I mean, you can see empty storefronts for rent, for rent, for rent all over New York city. It's.

David Millili: Yeah. It's it's unlike anything I've seen. I mean, I was just there last week and we were talking before we, we, we got online and, you know, it's amazing, you know, having seen the city change, like you said, it perfectly that you've seen the rise and fall. Uh, of, of the city and hopefully the rise, comes back because it's, it's really a shame.

All right. Last question for you, then I'm going to hand it over to Steve for a bit. If you could have a superpower, what would it be? You could pick one superpower.

Um, in the last superpower today will be to deal with, with, with, I would say a megalomaniac that is threatening the whole world.

Steve Carran: It's a fair answer right there. 

I got a couple of questions just from, you know, your, your more personal on the.

side you grew up in Bulgaria. You mentioned you were in the military. How did that just shape kind of the person that you are to 

Max Starkov: day? 

I mean, listen, it's a even in, in, in the, in a communist country, which is centralized the government and the economy and. It was a dictatorship though in Bulgaria because, you know, we have a saying that nothing works well in Bulgaria, including dictatorships don't work well in the country, simply because the Bulgarians don't care and everybody's following their own private interests. And, it's very difficult to combine the whole, I would say the power of the individuals into, for the common good. So we are individualistic. you know, we're, we're like a small business owner minded if you will, in Bulgaria. So that's a communism, never, never worked to the extent as it worked in east Germany, for example, in the Soviet union and so forth.

And then on the other hand, we're talking about, a country of seven, 7 billion people that is visited by more than 15 million foreigners. So, so even the, the propaganda couldn't work because we were receiving, when I worked at the black sea ministry of tourism in Sophia, a ski resort, we were receiving a British newspapers, German newspapers, French newspapers in the morning before the, the main government newspapers were available in the provinces.

So. You know, the, the, the centralized government couldn't even distribute their main propaganda to which is the main daily, and also the, to the rights in the morning in the, in the provinces, in the big cities, in the province. So in this sense, we, we were, we were never deprived from news and from knowing what's happening out there and how the whole world is, I would say,reacting to certain events and so forth.

No, nobody could fool us. So, I mean, this is something that, but other, other than that, I mean, people try to live a normal life. both of my parents were teachers. you know, we were middle class, if you will. so, I had, I would say extremely, happy childhood, if you will simply, we didn't know what we were missing. That's, that's another story. But under the circumstances and we had a, we had a great, I had a great childhood and upbringing and, went to the best,boarding school, the best university in the country. The whole point is that even in such dire circumstances, you can make a living. And you can build, uh, like solid, I would say moral foundations, 

Steve Carran: Absolutely. Absolutely. 

Max Starkov: but, but I was an anticommunist from, from day one. I mean, I couldn't stand... first of all, the, when people obviously saw that the black was black, but they were forced to, to say that it was white simply because, you know, they were afraid for their families, for their careers and so forth. So I have never, I have always been outspoken and I have always said what, what I, I thought was appropriate at the time, 

what I'm noticing right now is, is another thing, you know, back in the day, simply because people were afraid.. Once again, I mean, it's. You had to be in line. You have to do on the surface, you have to pretend at least to support what the communist party or the government, you know, all the government,decrease in all the government,whatever. So there was a certain language imposed on, on the ordinary people. and you had to, you know, you have to develop, like a unofficial. facade, if you will, which was all pro government pro communist party. And then in your private life, very intimate, private life, you can, then you can share what, what you really think. 

So people develop like this, like, Jenners you know, the, the, the famous double, double face, the Jenners personality, which led to a lot of mental issues, for many people. And, you know what I see exactly happening here in United States right now with all of this political correctness and all of the woke-ness it's exactly what the experience with when I was growing up in communist Bulgaria. 

Steve Carran: Wow. Wow. 

Max Starkov: It's exactly the same. That there's no difference, 

And why should we were joking with, with my wife?

Is it time to immigrate back to Bulgaria? Which is a very interesting. 

Steve Carran: Was there, was there something that, when you were growing up, maybe didn't go your way or, you know, went different than you wanted to, that really kind of changed or shaped you. And, uh, you really learned a life life lesson from it, while you're in Bulgaria? 

Max Starkov: Well, I wouldn't say life lesson. I mean it did. It came naturally. I mentioned that Bulgaria is international. Tourism is the number one sector of the economy, major, highways,west, east pass through the country, millions of foreigners. So, since day one, I wanted to travel. And in order for you to travel, there were only few options that you can travel abroad because I mean, even if you want to travel to a Western country, you need an exit visa. So not just the visa of the country let's say Germany or, or the United Kingdom. if they give you, uh,a visa or the United States, but you need an exit visa, which was given by the interior ministry, which means that, uh, so people were not simply allowed to travel abroad. It's simple as that.

So only a handful of people, actually will allow. And these were like foreign trade people working in the foreign trade and people working in to. Well, this was one of the maybe eye opening things is that when I went to this boarding school and we met with somebody who was a again, who was, a,tourism professional at the time. ] And the guy was telling us about his stories from Greece, from, uh,Latin America from, uh, the United Kingdom. And he has traveled all over the world. And we were fascinated. We will miss 13, 14 year old kids. And that's what they want it to be. So that's basically, if, if there's a life-changing moment, maybe that was it.

When I really realized that this is what I want to, I want to travel the world and, you know, I have traveled, I mean, there have been to hundreds of countries around the world. I've lived in four countries. So in this sense,perhaps, you know, this was shaped my desire to, to be in this industry. That's that's that?

That's a fair assessment.

Steve Carran: That's awesome. 

Question for you as a professor. Do you have an example or do you have one story of a student that you really felt like? Because again, like you, when I taught it was always great when you saw somebody, you know, get a job or take something, you know, when they would present and you could kind of just see that you had an impact on them. Is there a story or an individual that you feel like it was one of the, you know, the best moments of your teaching career?

Max Starkov: Actually I have a. Well, maybe not one, a story that stands out, but I have had a lot of students that, that were doing, I mean, David, similar to you, I teach graduate courses. So, you know, why do people, you know, need a graduate degree quite often, it's, they want to advance in their careers or they want to change careers.

For example. I've seen a lot of people who simply did not belong in hospitality status. Let's put it this way. They, you know, they say, oh my parents, uh, you know, we traveled when we were, when we were young and we stayed at this beautiful hotel. So that's why that's what brought me to hospitality. I said, what did your parents do at these beautiful hotels? There were guests. So they paid a pretty penny to stay at those hotels. Go and find work that will reward you monetarily so that you can afford to go and stay at beautiful with don't have to work with them. You'll it will be underpaid and overworked. So that's my, so my first question is why are you here with all my students?

What, what are you doing here? And I'll tell you very few of them have a meaningful, even at the graduate degree, have a meaningful answer. And quite often it's a, it's like very nativistic I would say very naive type of, beliefs that, oh, it's a very fun industry, which is true. I mean, I have been in this industry for 40 years now, so I would not change our industry for anything on this planet. But, uh,It's a tough industry. It's a tough industry. you know, you need, you really need to have the passion in this industry. And, ultimately, you need to find your, your niche. You need to find your, your avenue there and pursue it. but uh,come to the industry, believing that you will be, that it's like a fun industry and all the travel and this and that. That's a different story. I mean, travel means money. You know, earn a lot of money in order to, to travel. So in this sense, if you work as a front desk clerk, which is, overstressed over, uh, worked and underpaid, where are you going to travel? But I'm helping all of my students, uh, finding jobs after, after they graduate and so forth. I'm in touch with many of my students and I've seen some very, I would say,do students of mine who become entrepreneurs that have become general managers of hotels who become owners of hotels, even. So, uh,you know, I'm, I would say very much pleased and, and I'm in touch with, with, I would say a big chunk of my, my former students for the last twenty years 

Steve Carran: That's awesome. Do you have any specific advice you give to your students? You know, I guess as you, as they leave the nest of, of college, you know, do you have any set of advice that you give them as they start their career in hospital. 

Max Starkov: The advice that I would give is, is the following. Is traditional hospitality... and this is what, Lausanne is teaching in, in Switzerland. This is what many of the traditional. hospitality schools are teaching Cornell, does this? That's fine. This is the fundamentals, but this is traditional hospitality, which has nothing to do with, with the future of hospitality.

So that's why, what is it now? Four years ago, I met with the, with the Dean of, the Tisch center, at NYU and we discussed, what was that need that our industry,what are the skills that our industry are lacking today? And, you know, we, we agreed both of, both of us. We agreed that that was technology.

So that's why I developed this whole, current and future, hospitality technologies course. Where we're teaching the graduate students on, on basically the hospitality is a technology enabled service industry. It's not a real estate industry. And I would say that many of the issues that we have in our industry, the fact that we are technology backwards, I mean, David knows this extremely well. the fact that, that our guests today, far more technology savvy and digitally savvy than, than us in our industry. And basically we have back in the day, I would say until maybe 15, 20 years ago, we in hospitality always provided better. I would say environment from a technology perspective, even the bed in you remember the heavenly bed Western and so forth.

So basically, off that TV or my God, it's something, people didn't have a day homes that was 20 years ago. So basically we really provided a better home away from home. Fast forward to today, we offer sub par home away from home. We are behind the curve, our guests, a match. forward to thinking and the tech savvy, digitally savvy than us in hospitality.

Then when they come to our hotel room, they look around and say, that's it in all the smart TV is the latest thing that they have. Where is the, the voice assistant where all of these, uh,IOT devices that can help me manage the temperature that, you know, the, open the, my goodness, the shades of the, in the room and so forth,the, stream have try to, to, in order to use your own Netflix on, on, on, in a hotel room, it's a nightmare.

To delete your login. That would try that it's impossible. But what they mean is that we, we have fallen so far behind. And if you look at, the pandemic, the pandemic further, I would say a further decreased our abilities to serve the new type of digitally savvy. 

Steve Carran: okay. 

Max Starkov: I mean, hospitality slash the IT spending, which is all the technology spending by 50% during the pandemic five, zero.

And then, you know what, hospitality spending 2.5% of room revenue goes to, technology. That's it.

Steve Carran: Do you 

Max Starkov: So what they mean is, and then, and then slashes by 50% and then, slash the, the payroll for IT personnel by more than 50%. So basically you have, left the hotel with no investments.

We know personnel who understands technology, and you're trying to service, travel consumers who are conjured times a savvier than, than, than, you know, the most savvy person at your property? I mean, come on.. That's that's where we are. We are, we are falling behind, further behind. And the main thing is it comes from treating and, this real estate mentality in our industry because the same REITS the real estate investment funds who own the hotels,

most of the hotels, they own office buildings. They own a big, shopping malls. So, and they treat hotels in exactly the same manner as they treat a yeah. I mean, if you own a office building, what kind of technology do you need? Each company takes care of their own office. All you have to do, even the internet access is every company chooses from, let's say five, six, preferred vendors that, that have flighted the, the building. So all you have to do is take care of the elevators. That's your only technology. And this is the same mentality that applies to the hostility.

Steve Carran: Right. Right. So. 

David Millili: Well, it's very funny. I was going to say real quick. I know one of the running jokes I have with a couple of friends of mine is that every year you go to Hi Tech and you see, they have this hotel room of the future, but it never actually it's been the hotel room of the future has been coming for 20 

Max Starkov: Yeah, it's 

the same, but the same. Uh, yeah,

David Millili: Yeah. It doesn't happen.

Max Starkov: know, I know it's a. 

Steve Carran: So mags, independent hotels and resort collections, seem to be on a rise. why are they gaining traction now? And two-part question, how are we going to keep this momentum going? 

Max Starkov: I don't know. Why do you think that they're independent hotels on the rise? Because the, because there is a definite move toward branded design. In, in the global hospitality, I'm in the United States, already 70% of hotel rooms, not properties. 70% of hotel rooms belong to a major hotel brand. And United Kingdom is 50% in, Europe.

It's, anywhere between 40 and 45%, depending on which side of east, west Europe and so forth. Asia Pacific 35 to 40%. In this sense of rooms with talking about. So in this sense, I believe that, and especially now with the pandemic, which first of all requires huge investments in technology, contactless experience, mobility, IOT, and, and I mean, I'm not even talking about robotics and AI and so forth. Independent of hotel has no bandwidth, has no knowledge, has no I would say a skillset and of course that doesn't have even the money in order to invest in all of these new technologies that are needed. And then the best practices of course, and so forth. I think that,randomization will continue and actually the major hotel chains, one of the few you could call them winners of the. They will be a lot of independent hotels who will join the soft brands, the major hotel chains. So they will not go the franchise way and so forth. They will not like the autograph collection of Marriott, the luxury collection, the formerly of Starwood now, now Marriott and so forth. So, so we will see a lot of those.

And the main reason is that best practices. technology, whatever the technologies, you know, so the bigger hotel chains are becoming even bigger. and, the independent who does the being squeezed out. 

Steve Carran: Okay. Okay. 

Max Starkov: And, and especially when you look at, I mean, if you you're, autograph collection by Marriott to who've been independent, you pay 25% to expedia, OTA commission. You pay 18% to booking, but another 5% for the genius members. And then they have preferred, you know, another, preferred, type of, of, positioning in the search. the results on, on booking, which is another 5%. So it's already more than 30% emission. You become part of Marriott.

You pay 11. Those are the difference. So what they mean is that I expect that the branded visitation will continue. Especially the small, the true independence that the, like a single, single property independence will be squeezed out. And I agree that they will be No, like Viceroy that provide my sorority hotels, for example, provide different value. They provide the best practices. They have the technology, lofts hotels, for example, and so forth. So there, they will be such, they will be such a, independent chains if you will, luxury and boutique hotel groups, which, will survive.

But again, they will survive was a right only because they know technology, they know digital marketing, they have a brand presence and, they can still best practices and so forth. 

Steve Carran: Sure. Sure, absolutely. So having that kind of comfort of the brand behind you, first of all, and then not having to go choose all your technology, it's just kind of there for you. If you're moving to a brand, instead of just being an independent. Got it. Got it. Next question for you and I read your recent hospitality net article, and you mentioned in there, I believe it was a study, but, the pandemic accelerated digital transformation by 10 years. What specific technology and the hotel industry needs the most improvement, or have you seen a technology that you are super impressed with? 

Max Starkov: Well, I mean, it's, I think that, uh, it's not for us in hospitality to decide which technology we should implement. The marketplace has already decided this for us. 

Steve Carran: It. 

Max Starkov: So in this sense, I believe that, the most, the most pressing need in hospitality right now is to provide full contactless,experience at the hotel.

I mean, this is the most pressing one. And that's why, if you see the, the, NYU Tisch Center center, survey that they did with hoteliers, the vast majority of, of what hoteliers are planning in 2022 is connected around contactless experience. So in this sense, I believe that this is something that our guests require that our guests like.

I mean, I'll give you one example. if you are a guest at the hotel. First of all, you hate touching the room phone. Nobody wants to touch the room phone. You don't wanna touch the. So, how do you communicate with the hotel? And of course using your own smartphone to communicate with the hotel is, I mean, it's no brainer. Everybody wants it. Everybody it's much easier. So having such a guest, uh, messaging, uh, I would say system in place application in place. Issue resolution, via via text messaging, for example, is, is, they're connected, of course. So it's quite often, it's the same application which recognizes what kind of requests you have and then direct it to the, to the relevant department, housekeeping or engineering or whatever it is.

So this guest messaging, initial resolution. I mean the application that costs a dollar, $2 per room month, that's it. But you save on labor costs at the front desk because when somebody calls the front desk via the room phone, somebody has to pick up the phone who will do that? You have to provide, and you have to invest in bandwidth of your front desk clerks, you know, to be able to answer the phones.

So if you have guest messages, All of this is, uh, is, uh, automated, but not only automated is that, for example, if you have a hundred room hotel and you call because you need a extra pillow, the current arrangement that most of the hotels is that the front desk clerk will take a note on a little piece of paper or room four or five needs an extra pillow.

Then if they have the time, if they remembered, they will call housekeeping and say, Hey guys, bring a pillow to room 4 0 5. So all of this involves a lot of people and guests messaging and issue resolution can, can solve this and not only solve this, but provide the analytics. So the end of the week at the end of the month, the general manager can see, oh my God.

I mean, last month we got we're hundred room hotel. 150 requests for extra pillows. So let's go and buy the damn pills and put extra bills in every room.

David Millili: Yeah.

Max Starkov: Problem solved. That's my point is, uh,technology is already, pretty sophisticated. It's already available. It's cheap. That's my point.

It's reasonably priced. And, when hotels say, well, we don't have anybody here to manage this, or we don't, you know, we cannot invest in technology. It's just an excuse. It's just an excuse for people who simply do not want to change their ways. That's, that's what it is. So, so, I mean, I gave this as an example, but for few dollars per room per month, you can solve a major issue of, I would say a reasonable contention with your, with your guests and improve customer service big time.

David Millili: It's actually amazing because when you look at the way, our industry is slow to adopt new technology, there's also an issue, I think not only with hoteliers, but with some of the tech companies. So I just, advised Go Moment, which was acquired by Revinate and what I really liked about go moment was that they had the AI component.

So there was the whole idea is, do you really need to personalize what's the wifi password or what time is check-out? And in doing my research, there were some of the, I won't name them, but competitors that they said, oh, no, hotels want it. So they can actually personalize and communicate with their guests.

And it was just very funny how, you know, I was listening and it was two separate companies and you're thinking, well, yeah, how's it, how's it any better if somebody types in the wifi password and actually makes a mistake versus just the AI knowing. And Go Moment was pretty cool because they actually had the Ivy persona and guest actually thought it was a real person said thank you.

Cards made thanked Ivy on a TripAdvisor. So I guess, you know, you, and I know how it is dealing with ownership groups, you know, the reads and. One piece of technology that, you know, you were, if you were running a hotel and you were part of the management company, is there one piece right now that you would kind of be banging the table that we have to spend money on this?

because it just seems like they're not adopting, you know, just like you said, text messaging or voice assistance.

Max Starkov: I mean. I already mentioned that the full contact list experience, which includes, of course the, you know, the, the mobile check-in mobile keys. I mean, the there's some very nifty, I would say very reasonably priced solutions tool to adapt your existing locks in know with, to become mobile enabled locks and so forth or open keys.

But the one thing that I would really, really try to, do invest this year, it will be a cloud PMS to move away from a, you know, on-property PMS to a cloud PMS. And the main reason is that all of the cloud PMS systems come with integration, hubs and other marketplaces with API marketplaces, where,quite often for free, you can connect to any third party vendor that, that, that you want.

Because if you don't have that, we have been through integration processes, you know, with old, I wouldn't name the PMs with old, like on premises pMs is where even a luxury hotel group with 35 properties, couldn't get a, like a date that was closer to no, we need to do an API. And, the first available day that was given to us was like nine months into the future.

That's it guys, but we, or whatever is the name. We are world famous brand. You know, we are one of your best clients. Okay. So they, they moved it to six months, you know, that was, that was the concession. And then $2,000 a day for the engineer to come $2,000. It's man day. That was the first time. In my English vocabulary, I included a new term called man, not man hour man day. It's a, it's a $2,000 per Monday, two days. And yeah, we did the, you know, the job was done. But my whole point is that our client was, I would say, reluctant to go through the same exercise. After this experience. And what happened is that they saw the need in all to adopt third-party technology. Their guests demanded in all certain services provided only by third party, technology vendors yet our client, the hotel was the hotel group was reluctant to go through the tourist experience simply was, it was painful. It was very expensive. And, you know, they didn't adopt a technology that was available at the time, that would have made, guest services much better, simply because integrations were such a pain in the neck. So in this sense, that's why if you adopt a,cloud-based PMs with open API with, with an existing marketplace, I would say that this is.

really the, I mean, the, the biggest achievement that any hotel can do in 2022, 

Steve Carran: Absolutely. 

Max Starkov: and then it will be much easier to implement full contactless,experience to, negotiate and contract with vendors that can pro that can include,housekeeping on demand, during the model check-in to implement a self selection of rooms during the mobile check-in.

So I want room 4 0 5 on the fourth floor corner room. Yeah. It's 25 bucks more, but when you look at the, in all the digital floor plans, similar to how we choose a seat on an airplane. It's already existing Hilton just implemented this across all of their 1200 properties in North America. So what they mean is that the technology's out there, but you cannot have this technology if you don't have a cloud PMs with a, with an open API. Otherwise it will take you two years to implement. And then once you implement a mobile check-in contact, this experience, mobile key, housekeeping on demand and a self-selection of rooms. Then you can fire half of your front desk staff. Or actually, not fire them because you can not hire them.

You got find them because of the labor shortages in hospitality. So that's my point. And then, labor costs, you know, housekeeping on demand. If you implement a program like Hilton implemented and Marriott followed and all of the major hotel chains and many. You don't need half of your housekeepers.

I mean, in your city, David knows unionized labor housekeepers make $47 an hour. 

David Millili: You're right. I mean, I think what's funny too, is that, you know, just a quick, funny story about the, you know, staffing and interaction. I was in a hotel in Miami and a friend of mine hooked me up with a rate. And so when I was checking out, the gentleman behind the desk asked me, would you like an email address?

And so I thought, well, my friend booked. Yeah. So I asked them, do you have my email address on file? He asked, he says, that's a good question. He says, well, let me write it down for you. And he says, what's your email address? And I said, it's my last name? I said, first name. He writes down for. The actual words, first name.

I said, last name. He writes the last name. I said, NYC at Gmail, never got the receipt. And to your point, if it was cloud PMs and everything was integrated, it would have just been simple, but I never got the receipt. Not that I really needed it, 

but you know, sometimes 

Max Starkov: Yeah. So, so this is, I would say this is a. Well tell you should really consider as a super top priority. And there are some very shining examples. I mean, you, you meant, you mentioned the company that you're representing and so forth, but I mean, there's so many good, good examples out there. and then I would say the second thing that I would implement is a CRM.

David Millili: right.

Max Starkov: I mean, it's all about repeat business. It's all about Ruby. Be the repeat business is a five to 20 times cheaper than, you know, acquiring new guests today. And it's, you can not have a repeat business and you cannot increase your repeat business if you don't have a solid CRM technology and CRM, I would say program in place.

It's simple as that. So though CRM definitely. Uh, the contractors we mentioned, which includes also the module check-in, but again, it's not only the mobile check-in and the, and the mobile key that the full contact is experience means that, you know, self-ordering kiosks, for example, in the restaurant and so forth, or, you know, deliveries from ghost kitchens or from whatever, restaurants around the hotel or the hotel.

and then of course, In the future and they're coming big time. We talking about, robotics that can really change the way that we operate in our industry. I mean, housekeepers, depending on the category of hotel, the housekeeping job consists of 125-175 tasks. Well, if you break down what the housekeeper do. Robert's today can do 75% of those. No, we have the rosy, by made bot that cleans the floors, uh, does this much better than, than humans. You already have, Robins that cleaned up the bathrooms and they cleaned them much better than, than, than the hotels than, uh, humans. So, it just says, of course, all of these.

Rob was that the move dirty linen and,and wet towels out of the rooms. So you can, you can carve this today. Many of those robots are, you can rent them by the hour. And the hourly rate is much cheaper than, than human rate, if you will. So the is out there already, and it's coming,Before you, let the robots roam the hallways of the hotel, simple things, guest messaging, contactless experience, cloud PMs, CRM.

Max Starkov: These are the, I would say the top priorities that hoteliers should be considering.

David Millili: Okay, Eve we're near the end. Why don't you ask the last question? 

Steve Carran: I got to ask this, how is the metaverse gonna affect hospitality?

the short answer is,it won't affect the hospitality, at least in the foreseeable future. It's the method versus anti travel, first of all. If you look at, uh, the opposite of travel, if you look at what travel achieves, travel satisfies, all five senses, human senses. I mean, you see you touch, you smell, you know, your, your, your palette and so forth. So we have five human senses. The metaverse satisfies or can touch only two of them.

Max Starkov: You can see and you can hear that's it that's, that's what the weather was. So, so basically it's a, at the best, it's a, it's a very visual, and maybe, you know, it provides a visual environment if you will, but. The way that I see the metaphors in travel and hospitality in general is maybe applications to replace the, you know, the flat zoom meetings, no more a 3d environment for your meeting, where you can, send your avatar to sit at a table together with, with the other people that are having the meeting.

faking. If you will a meeting in a, in a conference room. That's one of the applications. Or let's say conferences, you can send your avatar to a conference. I mean, we saw all of these big meeting on high-tech, including online with all of the breakup. It can never replicate the real experience. I mean, let's put it this way.

Max Starkov: I mean, I attended, uh,the, the virtual, several virtual events like this, and it's just sad because quite often you 10th high-tech, for example, or any industry event, you, you, you learn more from your informal, unstructured interactions with the other. Uh,participants. That's where you learn the most, even from your competitors, you know, or you meet potential clients and so forth.

So this informal and structured, I would say type of behavior is very difficult to replicate in a virtual environment, including in the, in the, in the metaphors. But I would say that, uh, the metaphors may provide a funkier more lively, virtual events, but that's it. So, events though, nothing can replace the real human interaction and having a good glass of a single malt, scotch whiskey with potential client at the bar.

Come on, you got to have this in the, in the metaverse, or meeting old friends industry. You covered this in the, in the metaverse. So meetings, I would say guest speaker ships and all like you send your avatar to speak at the conference. Maybe, maybe sales meetings, like quick sales meeting, where you can jump and go to Singapore.

You send your advertise Singapore, and that, uh, present your case to a potential client. This will be interesting to see how, how it, how it works out, but this is one of the options. Yes, it's all sound and visual. That's it? The two of the five human senses. So you can, you know, a sales meeting though.

There's no touch, there's no human interaction. There's no reading of, of, uh, you know, uh,your gut feeling tells you that not to, not to go with this deal, you know, in such things impossible in the, in the metaverse, but this is. So, I have seen some destinations are planning to do all. We will do a virtual, like a metaverse replica of our destination, and people will come and enjoy it.

And you know, what will happen is that some people will behave in exactly the same manner as I witnessed. I was at the opening of the hotel in Las Vegas, back in the 1990s. So the Venetian hotel with a blue skies in the lobby with the canals and the, in the boats, in the lobby. And then there was this old couple and they were not that old, but they were, well-dressed obviously, you know, people with means and she said, oh honey, why did we spend $2,500 last year to go to Venice, Italy?

When we, we, we, we should have come here. It's, you know, The lobby of the vision is the same as Venice in Italy. Really? So that's my point. Any metaverse type of a replica of a destination will satisfy some people, Google not travel to your destination. You know, there was all I saw it. It's fine. I don't need to go there. So that's why it's a double-edged sword. if you try to go that route. So, but anyway, visually to represent something or like a teaser you did will be used in marketing and all like create a metaverse teaser about your destination, about your product, but this is it. So, and I'll tell you, at least in the, in the near mid term future, the metaphors will be more, more high.

Like a buzzword and then anything, anything realistic? I would say

David Millili: Well, that is all of our questions. Is there anything that you want to plug or discuss?

Max Starkov: no, no blacks and no discussion. The only thing is that we need, we really need to address, the main issues in hospitality today. And the main issues are not that people are not traveling. On the contrary labor shortages, skyrocketing labor costs and you can solve this only through technology. There's no other way.

Of course changing the business model. If you have room service, forget it. The room service gone. If you have like a small restaurant in the lobby, remove it, replace it with a robot making pizza. There's plenty of those, no Pietro and the likes, I mean, the, the, the, the, some shiny examples for gourmet pizza, you know, a robot and a person on calf actually on part-time supporting person, that's all you need.

So what they mean is that,technology is the only way going forward in our industry. And until we realize that we'll be paying the.

priceUh, I've officially named you the hardest working man on LinkedIn, and I appreciate all your posts. I really appreciate it. And I think with the, the people that follow you and the people that I know who knows. Is the honesty. So I thank you for that, and I appreciate you taking the time being on the podcast and, um, thank you very much.

David Millili: And again, let's hope that New York bounces back.

Max Starkov: Oh, yeah. Well it's so it's a listen. Interested in the city. it's a great city. I love the city. but we need better, better managers of the city. Let's go this way. Okay. thank you 

guys. And 

good luck. 

David Millili: Thanks. Bye-bye.