>> Jeniffer: Hello and welcome to the premise. I'm Jennifer
Thompson. I'm, Chad Thompson, and we are here today with
Zibby Owens. Zibby, welcome to the
promise.
>> Zibby Owens: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
>> Jeniffer: Yay. This is gonna be fun. So I met
Zibi when she was so gracious, and you came and
spoke at the fourth annual San Diego Writers
Festival. I don't know if you remember meeting me. It was right
out in front of one of our food tents.
They were cooking meat, and there was, like, smoke in the air, and it's, like, super
sunny and beating down on us. And I was, like, sweating, and I
walked up to you, I'm like, oh, my God, it's so good to meet you. And you're looking at me like, who the
hell are you?
>> Zibby Owens: No, I totally remember that. I
totally remember the whole thing. It was really fun.
>> Jeniffer: It was cool. And I got to meet Kyle, who is very,
handsome and, just as sweet and gracious as
can be. And, Yeah, and then you were a sponsor
of our fifth annual, so we just. Thank you so much for
your support and, well, everything you do
and publishing in books.
>> Zibby Owens: You're so welcome. I'm sorry I couldn't be there last time.
>> Jeniffer: Well, next year. There's always next year.
So let me start out by telling our lovely
listeners a little bit about you. Zibby
Owens is the author of a novel,
bookends, a memoir, m of love, loss, and
literature, and the children's book Princess
Charming. She is also the editor of two
anthologies. She's a frequent contributor to Good Morning
America and other outlets. She has been
called NYC's most powerful book
fluencer, which I think is absolutely true, and I can't wait
to dive in and talk more about that. She is the creator
and host of the award winning daily podcast
is it really daily? You do it every day.
>> Zibby Owens: I have been doing it every day. I went to five a week
about three weeks ago.
>> Jeniffer: Oh, good for you. I'm like, I am so tired just reading that
sentence. The almost daily week
daily podcast. Moms don't have time
to read books. She is the co founder and CEO of
publishing house Ziby Books, owner of
Zibby's Bookshop, an independent bookstore in Santa
Monica, California, and creator of the
Zibi verse la Times
community of book lovers, for which she offers
retreats, classes, special events, a book club, a writing
group, and more under the Zivi media
umbrella. She's a graduate of Yale University and
Harvard Business School. She currently lives in New York with
four kids, ages nine to 16. Is that
accurate?
>> Zibby Owens: Yes.
>> Jeniffer: And, of course, her husband, Kyle, which I've already
mentioned, who is the co founder, and, I'm sorry, co
president and founder of Morning
Moon Production. So, again, Zivi
Owens. Welcome. Welcome to the premise.
>> Zibby Owens: Thank you. I just love the way you speak and read.
You have, like, the perfect voice for this. So I'm just gonna take
that audio clip and play it whenever I need a bio.
>> Jeniffer: There you go. Yeah, please do. You're like, and here's my
bio.
>> Zibby Owens: And exactly.
>> Jeniffer: You're very welcome to, You do so much, it kind of blows
my mind. I imagine you have a big
team of great people who help make all this happen.
>> Zibby Owens: Can, you imagine if I was like, no, no, it's really just me.
>> Jeniffer: It's all just me. I do it all.
>> Zibby Owens: No, I have a whole team. They
are wonderful, truly fabulous women.
We have one man, actually, but,
>> Jeniffer: We always have to have the token mail. I have chad.
>> Zibby Owens: Yeah, there you go. You do.
>> Jeniffer: Also my husband, so he's a little more than token, but
anyway,
>> Zibby Owens: But yes, I have really fabulous women
leading every division, and it's been
wonderful to foster a lot of those
careers, and some of them came in at totally different
jobs, and we've figured out what everyone's great at
and just, keep moving people around. So, yeah, it's been great.
>> Jeniffer: That makes me happy to hear you say that. So many people are like, oh,
I'm not good at this, so I'll learn how to get better. And
I'm like, well, how about you just don't do that and do what you're good
at and stop wasting
time?
>> Zibby Owens: A, healthy mix is good.
>> Jeniffer: Well, I guess sometimes we have to do things we don't like, right?
>> Zibby Owens: Right.
>> Jeniffer: So let's go back to the beginning. You have literally
started an empire out of sharing stories and empowering
authors. But didn't that empire
start in your closet? Do I have that right?
>> Zibby Owens: not my closet, but my.
>> Jeniffer: Someone told me she started in her closet. I was like,
oh, my God, that is awesome. Okay, so tell us.
>> Zibby Owens: Well, the first podcast I ever did was into my
phone, you know, perched on the side of my bed. So
maybe that's what you heard.
>> Jeniffer: Okay.
>> Zibby Owens: After that, I got a microphone,
same one that I still have, and slapped it on my
desk in my office. And that's where I've been ever since.
>> Jeniffer: Which we got to ask which microphone?
>> Zibby Owens: I have a blue yeti. What do you have?
>> Jeniffer: I don't know. Chad, what do I have? Well, Jennifer is
speaking into an electro voice re 20,
which then goes in. Yeah, whatever that is. And what are
you using, Chad? Same one. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, I don't
know about these things. I just sit down and talk. That's for the three
audio nerds in our listenership.
>> Zibby Owens: I googled easiest podcast
microphone. Easiest podcast
platform. This is like the
bare bones, not too many buttons.
>> Jeniffer: So why, like, what made you decide to start a
podcast?
>> Zibby Owens: Well, I really wanted to sell a book, to be honest
with you. I had been trying to get a book
published for my entire life, pretty
much since I was nine, and decided I was going to be an
author. it's not quite the straight line that
I had hoped it would be, but that's okay.
I had just gotten divorced
and had some time on my hands that I wasn't
used to having every other weekend when the kids would go with their
dad. And I decided to, sort of
intentionally get back into reading, which I loved, even though I had been
reading, but, like, really get into it and get back into
writing and writing essays and all the
things I like to do. And I started
writing essays about parenting. After a year, I
had a lot of essays, and by then, I was,
I think, engaged to Kyle, or dating Kyle. Anyway, he
suggested that I turn my essays
into a book, and I made a joke. Ugh. like, moms don't have time to read
books. And then I thought, oh, that's so funny. That's what I'll
call my book. So I tried shopping that around. I was not on
social media. I didn't have a platform.
All the agents I talked to were like, no way.
And then a girlfriend suggested, well, why don't you start a podcast?
And I thought, well, why would I do that? I don't
even really listen to podcasts. I don't know how to do that.
But I figured if the book that I was trying
to write was going to be thrown away, at least I could save that funny
title and use it for a podcast. And then I could talk
to authors on the podcast, which is something that
I love doing. And I had my first, pen pal relationship with
an author when I was ten. And
I just think authors are such rock stars,
and this whole thing is like a dream
come true. And it all started with this whole, okay,
well, I'll just try it and see what happens attitude.
And it's all gone from there.
>> Jeniffer: I think one of the things I like most about your podcast
is it's so real. It's like, And you
just said I was in bed and I slapped it all together.
I looked it up and I did that, and I'm still doing that, but it's
like, it feels just so genuine and
authentic and real, and I think that makes
people comfortable and more at home.
>> Zibby Owens: Thank you. It, is real.
>> Jeniffer: None of this real.
>> Zibby Owens: I don't know about your podcast, but, yes, this is
actually just me talking into my microphone. I don't know.
I'm not good at sort of bluster and,
false anything. but you know what? I don't know. I just
tell it like it is, I guess.
>> Jeniffer: But let's talk about that for a minute. Cause, this is one of the things I do is I
help authors develop branding so they can get
published. And, you know, and I'm always telling people, well, start a
podcast, start writing articles, and everyone thinks,
oh, my God, it has to be really polished and professional
and perfect. And Chad is
actually, he said this to me several years ago,
Jennifer, perfect is the enemy of done. Is that
what you said? and it's so true.
Like, we can just kill ourselves and our creative energy
by trying to make something perfect when
really we could just do it and see what happens. And that's what you
did?
>> Zibby Owens: Yes. Although I will say, and I know
the first one I did, because on my bed, I did read
an essay I had written as my first one. But for all
subsequent author interviews, which the show ended up
becoming exclusively about, I was
so prepared for each one. So
I sort of relentlessly almost studied.
Before meeting any author, I would send over
a list of questions. I would have quotes. You know, I
viewed it like an assignment, which, like a journalist, by the way.
Yeah, I'd love school. I just, like, was like, okay, here's my
deadline, and here's my assignment. So it didn't have to
be perfect, but I knew I had to be as prepared as possible,
and then whatever happened, happened. So I, think that's
my approach in general as well,
that I can do everything I can,
and then the world takes over.
>> Jeniffer: And was there a time when you were like, oh, my God, that was terrible, what am I
doing? Or did you always feel like, yeah, I got
this?
>> Zibby Owens: no, I was not like, I got this. I had no idea what I was doing.
I mean, I was sweating so much
in the beginning, just like, sweating buckets.
I was so nervous, and
I wasn't, under any.
I didn't try to make it a certain way because I actually hadn't really
listened to very many podcasts so instead of
trying to be a great podcast, I tried to
just be a great show that I would want to listen
to myself, and I just took it from there.
So perhaps if I had been a big podcast
listener, I would have been more intimidated. But
because I just dove into this other
world, I felt okay. And
by the way, I didn't tell anybody I was doing it.
So I waited a long time
until things started getting better and
all that before I started screaming it from the
rooftops.
>> Jeniffer: That is awesome. You know what? I'm still nervous. I
was, like, super nervous all day today. When I'm doing an
interview, I'm like, oh, my God, I'm interviewing Zibi. I want it to be great. Did
I do enough research? So I'm still there and I still
sweat, and I'm, like, in a room and you're not even
here.
>> Zibby Owens: Oh, my gosh. Well, I do not ever have to be nervous
talking to me. I am like, this should be your
easiest interview ever. seriously.
>> Jeniffer: But I think there's something to that, too. Before you walk
on a stage, if you're not nervous, I don't know, I think you
almost need that to, like. It's almost
like the adrenaline that sort of drives the
work in a way.
>> Zibby Owens: I have found that the more practice I get, the
less that response. That physical response
happens at the beginning, it would happen all the time. And by the
beginning, I mean, like the first couple hundred episodes,
right? Not just like the first two minutes. Yeah, because now I've
done 1800 episodes or something like that. And it used
to be anytime I walked on stage, I really was
just heart pounding and all of it. And I
seem to have extinguished that response. Almost like
I'm a lab experiment or
something. Right. If you get enough
exposure to it, then it stops being something new and
you start feeling comfortable. So now I can walk on
a stage, and I still sometimes do get that flutter.
But as soon as I'm up there, I'm generally okay.
Before, I was not.
>> Jeniffer: And you're doing it pretty consistently, so
that makes sense. I mean, if you were doing a daily
podcast, I don't think you can maintain that
nervousness, still go about your day. Right?
Like, you have to get past that. Sure,
let's.
Okay, let's transition. I really want to talk about your
latest book, blank, which I'm holding in my hands. Friends. It's
a fantastic cover. it's a great book.
Zibi, where did the idea for this book come from?
>> Zibby Owens: Well, it actually happened similarly to
what happened in blank? Which is, I was at dinner
with my family, and my son suggested that I
hand in my next book blank. I had been given
the opportunity by my editor to pitch her different
novels as my bookends. My
memoir was about to come out, and the whole time
I was writing bookends, I kept sending my editor
all these ideas for novels like lovers leap, about
the competitive backgammon industry, and just, like, all
these random ideas. And she was always like, no, let's
keep thinking. But she was encouraging and said
she really wanted to work with me on my first
novel and all that. So
the clock was ticking, because she wanted me. She
really wanted to acquire the next book before bookends came out,
so I could use any media to discuss the next
book as well. And I couldn't think of one that she
really liked. And I was lamenting this at
dinner, and it was my son who said, if you're just staring at the
blank screen, hand it in blank. And I thought, oh, my gosh, that is such a good
idea. I'll write a novel about a woman who hands her
novel in blank. And then what would happen then? And then
the wheels were, you know, it was off and running.
>> Jeniffer: That is awesome.
You know? And I gotta tell people, the book is also very real,
which I would expect nothing less from you, zibby, but it's,
like, super, relatable. It's a fun read, and it
hearkens to what it's like to raise kids today, you know, keeping up
with what's hip and cool and what it's like
to be successful, but still gripped by self
doubt to navigate pre menopause and hot
flashes. And I have to tell you, there's this moment in
the book where I'm reading it, and I felt like I. I felt like
I completely, like, fell into the book
when our protagonist, Pippa, who we're
going to meet, more of, admits that she stockpiles
chocolate covered almonds because they're so hard to find.
And I was like, oh, my God. Yes. I searched them out everywhere.
Like, and, not to get off topic, but do you think this
is, like, some sort of evil plan on the part of Starbucks? Like, they
create this great product, and then they just make them really hard to
find?
>> Zibby Owens: Well, actually, they have discontinued the chocolate
covered almonds.
>> Jeniffer: No, they have not. Oh, my God.
>> Zibby Owens: Yeah. Ah, they've replaced them with something
probably healthier. But they used to have these. They were
called salted almond bites, so, ah,
perhaps they weren't even real almonds in there. I don't know what they were, but
they were so good.
>> Jeniffer: Delicious.
>> Zibby Owens: And now they have those lightly dusted ones that are terrible, which
are lovely, but they get all over your hands, and so you can't
really eat them while you're driving and all of that.
>> Jeniffer: I ate them on planes. I would go to the Starbucks
in any airport, the first thing I would do, and I would buy all of them.
If they had, like, five packets, I would buy all five.
>> Zibby Owens: Yeah. There weren't that many in a packet.
>> Jeniffer: And normally they would. Exactly. But, you know, they would last. But
normally there'd be, like, one bag of the almonds, and, like,
there was another thing they had that just wasn't as good. But anyway, I
just.
>> Zibby Owens: So, basically, the reason I couldn't find
almonds is because you have been taking them all.
>> Jeniffer: You took them all. It was all me.
>> Zibby Owens: Unreal. Unreal.
>> Jeniffer: The secret salt, folks.
>> Zibby Owens: Mystery solved.
>> Jeniffer: So, speaking of Pippa, let's, talk about her. She
must have been so much fun to write.
>> Zibby Owens: She was so much fun to write. And I'm trying to
write my next book now, and I'm
really longing to write more about Pippa.
and my editor didn't really want me to do that because I guess
sequels are harder to sell or whatever.
But, yeah, that was so easy for me
and so fun because Pippa and I share
some things, so it wasn't too much of a
stretch of the imagination to write her voice.
but, yeah, I had a lot of fun writing, writing
her. And, there was a
time when I was writing where I felt like just giving
up. In fact, I even talked to my agent. I was like, look, I have too much to do.
I just can't get this done. I don't even think it's good. I just can't do
it. And I thought about just
literally not doing it and being like, thank you so much, but I can't
get this done.
>> Jeniffer: For blank, you mean. You're talking about blank? Yeah.
>> Zibby Owens: No, for blank. I had written, like, just the beginning, and.
And then it was thanksgiving, and I was telling
my family, an extended family, over thanksgiving, that I was thinking about
abandoning this project. And they were like, what? Why would you do that? Well,
what's it about? Let's just see. So I started
describing it and all the things that I had coming,
and then I was like, actually, this sounds kind of good.
So I made the decision right then that
if I was going to spend the time the next couple months trying to
finish the book, it had to be fun. Like, I had to
laugh. I had to enjoy it, because why on earth was I doing
this?
>> Jeniffer: Right?
>> Zibby Owens: So that's how I did it, and that's what made it fun.
>> Jeniffer: Tell me about your writing practice.
>> Zibby Owens: Oh, gosh. that is a generous word for what I
do. I would not call it a
practice.
I, don't really have a writing practice because I
fit writing in around everything else that I do.
I feel like I should discuss my email practice, what I do, or.
>> Jeniffer: Like, your email practice is really, really impressive.
You always get right back to me. I'm like, how does she do that?
>> Zibby Owens: I'm, like, poised over my
keyboard, ten fingers kind of
curled. Like I'm. It's like a volley
uncle animal. You know? Like pouncing
on every email I try. You know, the best days are.
I'm like, I have nothing to do. I can just stay on top of my
emails. no, but
the writing has to fit. I just
have to fit it in. There's too much else going on. So
my ideal world is I wake up and
I can stay in my pajamas, and I can lay on the couch, and
I can write. And I don't have a deadline. I don't have to be
anywhere in the afternoon. My kids are with my ex husband.
I'm in someplace pretty. I'm feeling
inspired. But, you know, all those things don't happen very
often, so that is my wish list of
writing circumstances.
>> Jeniffer: So many of our listeners are writers or, you know,
aspiring writers, writers and readers, of course.
But I think I feel like that gives people
hope. Like, you can do it. It doesn't matter how busy you are, you have to believe in it.
You just have to, as they say, button chair and make it
happen.
>> Zibby Owens: Yeah. Or just don't even get near the
chair.
>> Jeniffer: That's great advice.
>> Zibby Owens: That's one of the things is for me, my
desk and chair and all that, that is work for
me.
>> Jeniffer: Right?
>> Zibby Owens: Like, I'm here, I'm emailing, I'm podcasting. I mean, it's fun.
I love what I do so much, but it's still one
mentality. So when I go to write creatively,
I have to not be at a desk.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah. You know, my husband's always telling me that you
should write somewhere else, because I do at the end of the day, and I'm
so tired from just, you know, mentally exhausted
from working all day. But I really want to write, and it's
hard. So I used to, like, go to a coffee
shop or somewhere else, so it didn't feel like work to write, but
now it's hard to get me to leave my house.
>> Zibby Owens: It's always hard to get me to leave my house.
>> Jeniffer: Right?
>> Zibby Owens: Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: So. Okay, so we love Pippa. There was
one scene where she
actually, I have so many questions I want to
ask you, but. Okay, so there's one scene where she
discovers that her idea may have been
taken by someone else, or someone else had a similar
idea, and she, on the keyboard,
chooses control a for
highlighting all of the copy, and then she hits delete, and my heart
just about, like, fell through the floor.
Oh, my God. I'm like, have you. Do you delete
stuff you've written?
>> Zibby Owens: No, I try not to. Well,
now I have a shadow document where I put
that I call deleted stuff, and I just put everything deleted in there just
in case.
>> Jeniffer: Just in case. Yeah. You never know. You might want to go back. There's some idea in
there. that's really important.
>> Zibby Owens: if there's a sentence I will spend,
I'm like, wait, I think I wrote something about that in one of my deleted
files. And then I went, like, an hour trying to find the sentence
that I could have easily just rewritten.
>> Jeniffer: Okay, that is so true. And, you know what I find
really crazy is sometimes I'll go ahead and write it,
and then I'll go back and find the other thing, because I'm sure it was so
much better the first time I wrote it. And they're exactly the same.
>> Zibby Owens: Yeah, yeah. I'm like,
what does it say that whatever I wrote last time is always
better than this time? Am I constantly declining?
>> Jeniffer: We m just self doubt. We have this self doubt, and Pippa has
it, too. And it's so endearing for anyone who has
aspired to be an author and write a book. I mean, this
is just such a great read. and it gives
hope. Yeah. And it's a very. It's such a
fun read. I know that you were going
to write a book. I hope I don't get this wrong.
40 love. How much
of that is in this novel? Because that was
going to be a memoir, right?
>> Zibby Owens: Yes. Actually, none of that is in this novel.
>> Jeniffer: Okay.
>> Zibby Owens: That is another project I wrote
several times over in all different formats. One is
a prose poem. One is a
first person present tense,
more dramatic. One is a memoir.
Some of 40 love ended up in bookends.
M. because some of it was really just
about my life. but I still think it would be fun to go
back and write a fictitious 40 love, but
I think so, too.
>> Jeniffer: I see something. I see something in your future,
Zibbie Owens. But that book
was. I mean, I read something that. That was, like,
primarily based on, you know, your
past marriage and, you know, finding the love of your life.
And it just feels like there's a little of that in blank.
>> Zibby Owens: in 40 love and in
blank. Well, I try
not to write too much about. I definitely don't
write about my former marriage, personally,
because I have four kids. And
look, I was married and now I'm not. So you can connect the dots.
It probably wasn't perfect, right. Or I'd still be
married. But I don't think we. I don't feel like I
need to go into it with the reader, necessarily. I
think that the reader is smart enough to just get it and move
on. it was really fun, though, to have blank
just make up. Like, well, what is, like, the worst
guy? Like, what would I want to happen the least
with a guy ever? Like, what would be
so bad? And so I tried to make that
up.
>> Jeniffer: And, you know what's so cool about Pippa and you
is that she never throws him under the bus. Like, she
still tries to have, like, a kind,
generous, outlook when she's talking
to her children about their dad, because that's
important. Right.
>> Zibby Owens: You know, my parents were divorced. I don't know. Are your
parents divorced or anything? I don't know.
>> Jeniffer: They did divorce. Yes.
>> Zibby Owens: Yeah. So I had an
experience where they did speak about
each other.
>> Zibby Owens: And I thought that even though
I knew why they were doing it, it
actually backfired on them.
>> Zibby Owens: In my mind. So I vowed not to do
that myself.
>> Jeniffer: Well, I commend that. I think it's so important that
we. I don't know. We have to. That's being selfish. Right.
We have to think about the children and how they feel and.
>> Zibby Owens: Well, it's also selfish as well, because,
I really think it hurts whoever's badmouthing someone
else. I really look bad.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah.
>> Zibby Owens: Because people will defend their parents
despite any flaws at all times, because we love
them. We just love our parents generally. So
if. Even if I have an issue with one of them, if somebody else
speaks badly about a parent, I'm, the first to defend
them. So I just think it's not worth
it. Not to say I'm, such an angel, but
I always remember how much that truly
backfired.
>> Jeniffer: Well, this is a life lesson. Don't go around bad mouthing people
because you're going to be the one who looks bad. Right. This is
just a life lesson, folks.
>> Zibby Owens: Yeah, life lesson. Particularly related to your child's other
parent.
>> Jeniffer: I want to talk about the Zivi Easter eggs in this book, and there's
probably way more that I don't know about, but it was so
fun when
in the very beginning in the book, she picks up her moms don't
have time to read books podcast mug. And I kind of chuckled to
myself. And then there's a point where she's driving past, oh, that cute
little bookstore on 11th in Montana. And I laughed
at that. And then again at the end, there's a
tagline. Your signature. I think it's your signature tagline. Stories
are best when shared. Is that
a zippy original or a pippa original?
>> Zibby Owens: A zippy original.
>> Jeniffer: Okay. I wasn't sure. I'm like, and by the way, I got
to admit, I have the hat, which I love.
>> Zibby Owens: Oh, yay.
>> Jeniffer: And I've been to that cute little bookstore on 11th
in Montana. I think I have the address. Right? I went from memory.
>> Zibby Owens: You do? You do.
>> Jeniffer: So, did I miss any. Are there other Zibi Easter eggs in
here? should I just. Should I have not given them away to everyone
who's reading?
>> Zibby Owens: No, no, it's totally fine. It's totally fine.
I'm delighted you noticed.
I can't remember if there are others. Those were definitely
the biggest ones.
>> Jeniffer: That had to have been so much fun. I really got
that you had fun writing this book.
>> Zibby Owens: I know. I was like, is that allowed?
I just kept wondering, am I allowed to do that? And I just kept waiting for
somebody to take it out along the editing process, and no one did.
So I'm like, I guess I was allowed.
>> Jeniffer: You know what? you may have already read this book. The sentence by
Louise Erdrich.
>> Zibby Owens: I have not.
>> Jeniffer: Oh, my God. You have to read this book. So it is
so good. But Louise is a character in her
own book, so the protagonist
works at Louise's actual bookstore.
So she's, like, mentioned, like, my boss, Louise,
and, you know, we went, yeah, it was.
I enjoyed it so much because I love her as an author,
and I think it's so great that she owns a bookstore,
and, like, she never talks favorably or
unfavorably about herself, necessarily. She just
appears as, like, a side character. And I
had never seen anyone else do that until I read blank.
>> Zibby Owens: Well, in my next book, I even have
this scene, which I'll probably delete,
but not for real. Delete. I mean, put in the deleted
file delete. but I do have a scene. that's over.
911. as a backstory type
scene. And I actually have my
main character meet me. But I don't
say that it's me, but it was me, at the time, like
what I was doing. So I just described
myself. I don't know, I'll probably take it out.
>> Jeniffer: You wrote that for you, it might
appear. I think that's kind of cool. I think we're going to see a little bit more
of that.
>> Zibby Owens: Yeah, we'll see.
>> Jeniffer: Okay, I have a hardball question for you. As hardball
as we get on the premise. so blank is a book about
changing the publishing industry. but blank
is also published by Amazon or an Amazon imprint.
So boutique bookstores hate Amazon. And
yet you have a boutique book shop and a book published
by Amazon. So have you gotten any pushback on this
and, you know, talk to us about
just this whole fact of the matter.
>> Zibby Owens: Yes, I have gotten pushback. a lot of independent
bookstores will not take my book or any books
written by Amazon published authors.
I have managed to get it into quite a few
because
of my publishing company and
personal relationships that I've built up over the last couple of years
or begging or whatever. but there are a bunch
that won't take it no matter what. I
think that is foolish on
the part of the indies. I think, obviously
I understand that they're upset with Amazon for
ruining their livelihood. I get it. I totally
understand that. But for indies
to stay afloat,
boycotting authors is not the way
to go. I mean, I don't believe in any sort
of book banning. you know, I think
that the people who
suffer, if anyone is the author
and even possibly the bookseller for the loss of
sales, Amazon does not suffer at all.
So the point they're making doesn't
really land. Right? It's like kicking
the shins of a giant, right? Giants m aren't going to know,
but you're probably going to break your own toes. So
I, I understand the tense
relationship. I do understand. But
I think you have to pick yourself up and
find a new strategy and market
forces are always throwing new competitors in the
midst. Right? That is one of the things like, look at
Kodak and how they thought they were. Nothing was ever
going to happen to Kodak. I worked on the Kodak account, at my first
advertising job and, oh my gosh, the city of Rochester
and this big, who could ever take
them down? And then you know what, like digital cameras
are, they like, you have to
adapt you just have to adapt. So
I think that's not a strategy I believe in. We
carry all sorts of books at our bookstore. I, think
that readers don't care who publishes the book necessarily.
this, you know, this is the, or
notice, or notice. I really don't.
And
look, I believe in getting books to
readers, and a
lot of people use Amazon, and that's not going to
change. I also believe in supporting independent bookstores, and
I support them a lot. And I support Bing, and
I support all sorts of, places I started my own.
I mean, I'm a huge fan of the independent bookstore,
and I think they have a long and healthy life in
front of them. But, you know,
I get.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah.
well, and what's interesting, too, about blank is that
it's commentary on the traditional
publishing model and how it's kind of brought, you
know, I mean, you pretty much say it flat out.
Can you talk to us a little bit more about that, if
it's okay? I don't want to spoil the book, obviously.
>> Zibby Owens: No, no, this is not book spoiling. This is actually just real life.
And, one of the things I was trying to do with blank
is to pull back the curtains a bit on the
publishing industry in general, because I entered it
as a sort of bright eyed, bushy tailed, as we
all do. You know, I didn't know a lot of these
things. Some things I was sort of
aghast to learn about, and some
things I was like, everybody needs to know this. People don't
know this. so some of those things I put in the
book, I think that people don't
necessarily know that whatever book the
publisher picks to be the biggest book is going to be the biggest book.
So if you're not the lead title, good
luck. Right. You need some major celebrity to pick
it up on a plane or something random to happen,
to possibly compete with the ones that either have been
picked by a giant book club or that your publisher has decided
to invest the most heavily in. And it goes
all the way through all the distribution channels down
to who you sell the hardest at
the sales meeting and then the sales rep with the books in
the back of the car and the influence the sales rep has. I mean, it's a
whole ecosystem, and a lot of it is relationship
based, and it's a very creaky old system.
but this is the one that sort of
monopolizes the bookstores and all of that as
well. yeah, m. Yeah, I think it doesn't help with
discoverability of books and
I'm over here, sort of the
cheerleader for all authors and really wanting people
who do great work to get their work seen
and into the hands of readers who might benefit the most from
the books. And. And sometimes
that happens, but a lot of times it doesn't. A lot of great things are missed.
I realize this happens in many industries, movies
that people don't end up seeing, songs that don't end up getting
heard. It's a byproduct of a creative
field. But I just wanted to see if
maybe I could do some tweaks to see if I
could help with that.
>> Jeniffer: Well, and, I think you're absolutely right. I think
people need to know, like, pulling back the curtain that that
is paid shelf space. And
bestsellers are not necessarily determined
by readers. And you go into that
in the book, and I want to transition
this into your publishing imprint because
you have a model that's a little different than the traditional book model. Can
you tell us more about that?
>> Zibby Owens: Yeah, I mean, it's
funny, I just emailed all of our authors last night
because I was having this, I don't know, just moment of
nostalgia. Looking back through all these pictures of our authors
all hysterically laughing and thinking about the
last year and a half of publishing and all this
crazy journey that has gone into starting this
company and the heart and soul
of why I did it. And the main reason is really to give
authors as great an experience as possible. You can't
always control market forces. M but you can
set your authors up for as much success as
possible. If they don't hit, it's not because
of a lack of trying on behalf of the publisher.
>> Jeniffer: That's unique. I mean, most authors don't realize
that when you get a traditional publishing deal, and I'm sorry I interrupted you,
but no, it's fine. Most traditional publishers are not going to put
a lot of marketing, if any, it's still expected
for the author to market the book.
>> Zibby Owens: Yeah. And I will say, the more the
author does, the more it helps our efforts. But that's
not required. Do you know, like, if m you
have two people in a canoe and one person's
paddling versus both people paddling,
right. You're going to go faster with the two people paddling. I think it's
just common sense. So, I don't think it
means that the person rowing the boat is a bad rower. Right.
It's just, there's like, somebody else could help and you could go
faster. So I always think there's
that. but yeah, some
publishers. And I don't think this is to the
detriment of anybody working in publishing. This is not a
personal thing at all, but just structurally, if there's
so many books to market and limited
time, you try to. Publishers try to take their
bets and put all their money
on red or whatever. It's a
crafts table. So
I just don't think that makes people feel good. And
I think that I want the, I mean, I
know I want our authors to feel good.
I want them to feel supported. I want them to know we're investing in
them emotionally, financially. I want them
to have a great experience. I want them to have input on their
titles and their covers and the interior
layouts and the fonts like it's their baby.
And I want them to feel that they
have control and take ownership. And one of the
things we do, aside from really giving the
authors a say, is connecting all the
authors together. And we have WhatsApp groups, and we
have team retreats and groups
touring and all sorts of ways where our authors
have become friends and allies and share
knowledge and help each other, because why not
do that? You know, I think a lot of publishers keep their authors
separated, and I'm like, why? You know, are they
afraid? Like, what? Why not have
them be, together? So, it's
so simple, but it's more philosophical, I
guess. you know, we just believe
in gathering and connecting and all
of that. And, you know, from a tactical standpoint,
we do a lot more brand partnerships. We have
distribution now in a lot of hotels, and we're doing
sort of more creative things to try to get books
where they're not competing against 8 million other
books, but perhaps the only book somewhere, which
helps set them up for success. we do tons of
extra content for every book and trailers and this and that,
and, you know, lots of communication
and, you know, it's supposed to
be fun.
>> Jeniffer: You know, it really is. Yeah.
>> Zibby Owens: Nobody goes into writing because they're like, oh, this is a
sure thing. This is
totally a, stable way to make
money for the rest of my life. I'll be fine. That's not why
people go into writing. They go into writing because they have to. They,
need to write. It's in their heart and soul,
and they're often really good at it. People who
feel that calling usually have some
talent and drive and
passion and also
are totally anxious and insecure. So,
speaking as one myself,
the most we can help, the better. The more we can help, the better.
>> Jeniffer: Absolutely. You said something that I've found really interesting.
So I've been in the publishing industry for 20
years and I don't know if you knew this, but Chad and I have a company
and we help authors build brands and websites. And
so I've been speaking at self publishing
conferences since the early two thousands
and, you know, small, like independent book
publishers association, I've been speaking at their conference
for years. And what I've always found is that
there's so much camaraderie and community
in these smaller presses, indie
publishers, self publishers, hybrid
presses, whereas the traditional
publishing model is everyone keeps to themselves, it's all, it's
competitive. And I think that's something that,
you know, the model has created. And you said, like, why,
why is that? Why can't we all work together? And you're. I think it's
changing and I hope it's
changing, through conversations like this, I think it's helping,
but it's an interesting, it's an interesting thing you touched on there.
>> Zibby Owens: Yeah, I mean, that's great that you do that with the self
publishing.
>> Zibby Owens: You know, I think self publishing is also really
interesting. And I
think that if I could have one
thing to say about the branding of self published
authors is that they should invest more in their
cover design. I think that's the main differentiator,
100%. Like, if they could just get better covers.
>> Jeniffer: It's so frustrating.
>> Zibby Owens: Preaching to the choir here.
>> Jeniffer: Well, you know, we started out with designing book covers
and websites and we still do that, by the
way. We still design book covers. And people
always ask me, you know, what's the number one thing that gets in the way? And I
say the authors, because the authors have a vision and their book is their
baby, as you mentioned. And so they have these
ideas of what it needs to look like. But
separating yourself from that and letting the publisher
design a good book cover, I think, is the most important thing you
can do to make your book successful. And
it's so hard for them to do. And, you know, we're book
designers. And people say, you know, what have you designed lately
that you're really proud of? And I have a hard time pointing to
anything, you know, because
we're dealing with, the heart and emotions
of someone who has this idea that they understand in
their heart, but the public doesn't see it and it's really
hard.
>> Zibby Owens: Maybe you could get like a group of 100 people
to volunteer as like, you know, cover testers
and run the covers by the
testers and get some independent feedback. To show the
author, look, you know, out of these 100 people, 90. nine
liked mine and three liked yours.
I'm serious, though. I mean, that's what happens.
>> Jeniffer: No, you're right.
>> Zibby Owens: We show the covers at sales conference, and sometimes
they're like, oh, we all think that will sell more.
So I think people. Yes, they
want things to look a certain way, but they also want their books to
sell well.
>> Jeniffer: And they always come back and say, I wish I'd listened to you.
Almost always, you know, I wish I'd listened to you. Because the
number one thing that's been holding me back, and bookstores are like, you
know, no, I'm not interested. Why? Well, the coverage, you
know, you know, looking at comparable
titles, does it look like other books on the shelf next to it? The
ones that are like it? Right. Is this what. Does it meet
audience expectations? as opposed
to. Is it what I like? I had an author the other
day say, well, I really want papyrus. And I'm like,
absolutely not. We can't use papyrus. And then
there's a reason for that. A. It's hard to read, and. But anyway, we're
totally getting off track.
I loved the COVID for Patty Lynn's book, end
credits. And, in fact,
nice work. I got to interview Patti at, our
last festival, the San Diego Writers Festival, and she's
delightful.
>> Zibby Owens: Oh, yay.
>> Jeniffer: So, nice work. Great book. How do
you, you know, find your authors? How do you
choose which book to publish next?
>> Zibby Owens: Patti's book came in through an agent,
and. And I remember really loving
it. So that's how that worked. we get a lot of
agented submissions, and,
some of the books we're publishing have been authors who have
previously been on my podcast. Moms don't have time
to read books, and so I knew them and was familiar with
their work. I mean, m that's mostly
how, at the beginning, I was telling people, like, oh, my gosh,
you should write a book. And that does not
work. If someone has not
decided to start writing a book on their own, you telling
them to write one is a bad call.
There are so many people who already have books, so,
you know, barking at the wrong tree there. so I learned
that lesson, but now it's
mostly agented submissions. I'm trying to think if
there's another way. It's mostly through that
or recommendation.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah.
>> Zibby Owens: What's that?
>> Jeniffer: Do you accept unsolicited manuscripts?
>> Zibby Owens: We do. In fact, we just had a meeting today with
an unsolicited manuscript person. who I met
at an event, and that was really
good. So, yeah, we do.
>> Jeniffer: That's hard, because pretty soon you're going to be so inundated.
It's like, how do you find the best book
for your.
>> Zibby Owens: We are inundated. We are inundated, but we're also very
selective. We only do one a
month, and we only do contemporary fiction and
memoir. That's pretty realistic. We don't do
Sci-Fi fantasy. we've done
one true psychological
suspense. We have a couple of those
memoirs, books that make you think and feel.
So it's pretty easy to weed out
the many submissions that don't meet those criteria, even though
we say it everywhere.
>> Jeniffer: Right.
>> Zibby Owens: and isn't that crazy?
>> Jeniffer: Well, there go all my proposals.
Next time, Chad. We can work on it.
You're right, though. People don't pay attention to. They're just
excited about you as a publisher, and they don't think to look at the submission
guidelines.
>> Zibby Owens: Yeah, somebody was trying to convince me to publish
children's books. They're like, no, no, but this would be
really good. And I'm like, right. We don't actually do
that. Or, like, a coffee table book. And I'm like,
we don't even have a printer for that. Like, that's
not my business. so I think the
more appropriate your pitch is for any
publisher, the better. And the publishers are not going to
change based on your book. You have to sort
of get with the program, or find a different publisher.
>> Jeniffer: Who is your distributor, if you don't mind me asking?
>> Zibby Owens: Oh, I don't mind. Ingram. Two rivers.
Ingram.
>> Jeniffer: Oh, yeah, of course. Awesome.
was it daunting, starting your own publishing in
print?
>> Zibby Owens: Yes,
it was daunting. And
I still did not even
know how much I had to do at the beginning. I mean, if I
had known, I would have been more daunted. Let me put it that way.
>> Jeniffer: It's probably better not to know, right?
>> Zibby Owens: Yeah, better not to know. It's a lot. It's hard. It's a lot of
work. but I feel like we're in a really good place right
now.
>> Jeniffer: How many years have you been publishing books?
>> Zibby Owens: Our first book just came out last February in
2023.
>> Jeniffer: Oh, okay.
>> Zibby Owens: so we've had about 15. We've had 15 books come out.
>> Jeniffer: Congratulations.
>> Zibby Owens: We started it with Lee Newman, who had started
another press before, so I felt like she
knew how to get things going. and we partnered
early on with a woman named Ann Massetti, who's now our president. Ah.
Of Civi media and publisher of Civvie books, who's
amazing. so my
strategy all along is to be surrounded by really
smart people and to ask lots
of questions and defer to people who know what they're
doing when I don't or, you know,
all that. but it's. Yeah, it
has been hard. It has been hard, and it is still
hard because it is so hard to sell books. I mean,
there are just too many books and not enough
time and readers and demand
and, especially because
people enjoy reading the same things.
So it makes it harder
for any book to get a big following.
Yeah, it's hard. It's just really hard. But
that's why I really like to think of each
book sale, each book read as a huge
deal and not to get as caught up with the
numbers. Right? Oh, I sold 112 books this
week. Like, oh, that's it. You know, look, so and so sold a
million copies. Well, you know what 112
people think about that? That's like bigger than my high school
graduating class. 100 people. How many people are.
It's like a whole airplane is reading the book right now. I mean, it's
cool. So I think if you think of the numbers,
that's a great analogy. Think about it in a
different way. Like, oh, I feel bad. Only a
thousand people bought my book. A thousand people. Like,
think about that auditorium. You know, they're all sitting there
for 8 hours reading your book. That's pretty
miraculous.
>> Jeniffer: Do book clubs play a huge role or a
big role in how you get books out to readers? I know you have a
book club, right?
>> Zibby Owens: I do have a book club.
>> Jeniffer: Yay.
>> Zibby Owens: the big book clubs obviously move the needle more than really
anything else. ever since Oprah, the
model is still incredibly powerful. I also
think micro book clubs are very powerful,
too. what you really want is word of
mouth. And the other night, I
joined a zoom at a book club with eight women who were sitting around
their living room in Scottsdale, Arizona. And I'm like,
why not? You know, like, I love that.
>> Jeniffer: So they invited you?
>> Zibby Owens: Yeah. Well, I offered. I said, if anybody, if any book clubs are reading
blank, I'm happy to send you some friendship bracelets
and join on Zoom, or in person if I can. And
some people took me up on that, and I was like, great, here I am.
I'll stay up late for this. because how great
book clubs talk about it. They spread the word, then they tell friends,
that's really how books, despite all the other
things and TikTok and blah, blah, blah. I
mean, word of mouth is the most powerful.
I mean, I'm not saying the living room in Scottsdale is more powerful
than hitting it big on book talk. I'm not saying
that, but I think there's room for
everything.
>> Jeniffer: Well, I think that's one of the things that makes you so
endearing is that you make yourself so accessible
to readers. you answer your emails
like, you personally get back to people and you have time for people.
And I think it really shows.
>> Zibby Owens: Yeah. Someone's like, why do you do that?
>> Jeniffer: Are you insane? Yeah, I know.
>> Zibby Owens: And I'm like, I mean, I don't sleep that much, I have to
say. But, I mean, someone's gonna answer
my emails, like, what the heck?
>> Jeniffer: Yeah.
>> Zibby Owens: I don't know. I don't know how. I'm, maybe I'm just too
controlling or something or neurotic or
anxious.
>> Jeniffer: It's working. Yeah.
>> Zibby Owens: I don't know. Yeah, it's working.
>> Jeniffer: You know, there's an author, you may have heard of her, Lisa
C. She writes amazing books. And
that's really part of her brand
is. And she was actually, the reason that I went
into author branding is, you know, looking
at how she engages with her readers. She answers her
emails. She always shows up for book clubs.
She's so generous with her time and,
like, genuinely happy
that this one reader is interested in her book
and cares about her book. And I think that's part of her
brand. That's why people keep reading every book
she puts out. Plus, she's a damn good writer. So, I
mean, yes, of course. But, yeah,
I think that if we can give more to the people who are,
you know, like you said, a whole, I love that
there's a whole plane reading your book
and thanking them.
>> Zibby Owens: You know, that's, I think, author branding too.
I mean, you are your brand 100%. So,
yeah, if you meet someone,
like, you're the best representative for your work, so
you have to be nice. Like, you know,
everyone, anyone who has the wrong idea, I mean,
maybe I should back up. If you're not nice, then just delete
all this advice.
>> Jeniffer: But, you know, and that's your brand too. Okay,
great.
>> Zibby Owens: If you are a nice person and want to make sure people know that,
that, like, you can't be in a bad mood one day
and be really rude to someone. Like, it doesn't take much
to destroy someone's impression. And
then, do you know what I mean? Like,
you have to, you have to protect your
own brand at all
costs. Not to be fake, but just, like, if
you're having a bad day, just, like, suck it up for a minute and
smile at someone who wants to talk about your book. I mean, that's a
gift. Every reader is a gift. So, Or
don't leave the house.
>> Jeniffer: House. You know, that's my model.
Yeah, that's what I did.
>> Zibby Owens: Back to where we started, not leaving the house.
>> Jeniffer: That's a good callback there.
What's next for Zivi Owens?
>> Zibby Owens: Oh, man. well, I'm about to go do a live
podcast at my bookstore and,
moderate an event. I'm continuing on with
this crazy zibi verse tour that I've been on, where I've been going
to, like, 50 different places in the the United States
to meet people, and talk about
my book. So this weekend is, I went to
Dallas and Denver and Chicago, and I have a
bunch more trips coming up, but I'm getting towards the end
of the tour, so that's great. but I'm going to
continue doing that and more events over the
summer. we have two books coming out from Zibi, books that I've
been busy promoting and emailing all about.
>> Jeniffer: Tell us what they are. Yeah.
>> Zibby Owens: One is called I want you more by Swan Huntley.
>> Jeniffer: I love her, by the way. She's one of my. I interviewed her
on the premise. She's one of my favorite authors.
>> Zibby Owens: Oh, good. She's so funny.
>> Jeniffer: She's so great.
>> Zibby Owens: She's such a great voice. so this book is about
a ghostwriter who goes to East
Hampton for the summer and moves in with her
client, who is a celebrity chef. And
their relationship ends up taking a turn
in a lot of different ways.
And, there's sort of a single white female element to it.
Meets war of the roses, and
cancel culture and
love and lust. It's really good.
I'm sort of obsessed with this book. And
then we also. That's our sort of May June book.
And then in July, we have Pierce
oysters by Jocelyn Takax. And
that is literary eco fiction about
a family of oyster farmers affected by the BP oil
spill man, and the ripple of that in their community.
So those are both really, really good books. So I'm very
busy, with those marketing plans and tours
and publicity and all of that.
we have a retreat coming, up in
September in Palm Springs, for two nights, and I'm busy
planning our November 1, which we're debating between a couple
places. my book club
is reading, well, we're
reading Julia Alvarez's the Cemetery of Lost stories,
but we will be reading Annabelle Moynihan's, Summer
Romance and Anne Leary's, I've tried being
nice, which are both fabulous, trying to go
through. We have to be classes for aspiring authors, so
definitely check those out as well. My podcast
has some great guests coming up. We're doing five episodes all
summer long with so many great
authors, all different types of books. I just
assembled this giant summer reading list with all
these fun categories, many of which are going to be in my
bookstore in Santa Monica. and I'm going to sort
of unveil that next week. And,
I'm working on my own
novel again, theoretically,
by which I mean I'm spending a lot of time on instagram,
but it's supposed to be due at the end of July. And,
I don't know, it's just, like, not happening. I do have a 60 page outline,
so it shouldn't be that hard. I just have to write it to
know what's gonna happen, but it's still really hard to
do. and that book is called
overheard, and it's about a bookstore owner
who meets, her ex husband's first new
serious girlfriend, who turns out to be a big deal movie
star. And when she complains about this to her good friend,
and while watching her son's football game, their
conversation gets picked up over the livestream for the football game
and broadcast to the whole community, and she gets
canceled. And the rest of the book is about how she gets
back into the good graces of the community with the help of her kids.
>> Jeniffer: Aw, that's not autobiographical, is it?
>> Zibby Owens: It is not. However, there was,
a football game that I did go to with my ex
husband and his fiance and my husband
and three of the kids, where we watched another kid play football.
And we did get picked up over the livestream, although
we didn't say anything bad, so it ended up not being that big a
deal. But as soon as it happened, I was like, oh, my God. What
did you say?
>> Jeniffer: Yeah, right, right.
>> Zibby Owens: What could I have said that would ruin my life? Like, is there
anything I could think of? And then I was like, I don't know, but I have to write a book about
this.
>> Jeniffer: I was at an author's conference, and right after,
the instructor went out into the hallway, and he was still
miked, and he started complaining about
the authors in the audience. No.
And I always think about that. I'm like, oh, my God, if you have nothing
nice to say, keep it to yourself, at least, at the very least till you
get home, right?
>> Zibby Owens: Yes.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Okay. You do
so much. It, like, literally is
wildly impressive and a little bit disturbing.
It's like you kept going, and then you said, and. And.
Well, so I just want to, like, ask you about your
childhood, like, when you were a little girl, like, eight years old. Can
you, like, bring us into the world of Zibby Owens? Like,
what. What was your empire like then?
>> Zibby Owens: I've always been interested in sort of entrepreneurial
pursuits.
>> Jeniffer: I had a feeling.
>> Zibby Owens: I've always been a huge reader, and a writer. So
at age eight, I was reading nonstop.
I was probably playing some snoopy tennis on my little
Casio whatever. I don't know how old you are, but that probably
dates me. This is before even game boys or anything.
So I did a little bit of that. but most days
I would sit, you know, I'm thinking of myself in the summer with,
like, a headband and maybe a
shorts and a little polo shirt. Like, reading.
Reading on my bed for, like, hours,
and, writing. And then
I made all these bookmarks, and we're selling them door to
door.
>> Jeniffer: That's what I was waiting for. I was like, I know it. There's, like, a
lemonade stand or a bookmark stand. Even better.
>> Zibby Owens: Yeah. I mean, I made bookmarks and sold them.
>> Jeniffer: What was your favorite book? Do you remember?
>> Zibby Owens: The book that made me really fall in love with
reading was Charlotte's web and how it was the first
book where I cried, and I didn't realize books could
really make you cry. And so that
was one of my favorites.
>> Jeniffer: In your acknowledgments, you give
credit, to, I'm gonna guess your grandparents,
Gadgi and papa. Did I say that right?
Yeah. Tell us a little bit how they, I
don't know how they helped to shape, you know, the future writer
Zibi.
>> Zibby Owens: Oh, that's sweet of you to ask. and by the way, you were
super prepared for this interview. You had nothing to worry about.
>> Jeniffer: Thank you very much.
>> Zibby Owens: Conversation I've had with anybody in the longest time.
Gagi was my mom's mom. We were
incredibly close. She was hilarious
and loved to write, although she called herself more of a
letter to the editor type because she was constantly writing letters to
the editor. but then would write me, like, five page letters
every week. Yeah,
she's like a Irma Baumbach. Just missed,
you know, she loved her. She could have been that.
but she really believed in my writing and was
every time I spoke to her. What are you writing? What are you
working on? I'm m like, oh, I'm not doing anything now.
Okay, well, you know, get back to writing.
Da da da. And then what are you reading? And that's how we
really connected. And, she
and my grandfather published this little miniature book of mine when I was
nine with my first two short stories.
And she's just always been. She was always
a huge supporter and believer. And,
I like to believe that she is, that she knows what's been going
on now because it all kind of happened very suddenly, and
most of it since she passed away in 2021.
>> Jeniffer: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry to hear that.
Yeah, I can tell that she was a huge
supporter. and we need those people, don't we, as writers? Someone who
believes in us and kind of pushes us, even if they're not here
anymore. She's still pushing you, isn't she?
Well, Zippy, thank you so much for being a
champion for authors, for readers, for joining Chad and
I here today. This has been so much fun. Thank
you.
>> Zibby Owens: Thank you for having me, and thank you for all the time you
spent reading and the thoughtful questions and the deep
dive into my life, and I really appreciate it.
>> Jeniffer: No, it's my pleasure. Yeah, well, you just. You have a very
interesting life and such a beautiful, trajectory of what you're
doing. And I look forward to seeing more and reading
more books and having your authors on the
premise they need to be here.
>> Zibby Owens: Yes, thank you. That would be amazing.
>> Jeniffer: You can learn more about Zibby on Instagram,
ibboans, and on Substack, where she tells
it like it is. And I believe it.
This has been another episode of the premise. You can visit
us
online@thepremisepod.com
and subscribe and rate or review the premise
wherever you get your podcasts. And also,
moms don't have time to read books. Remember to review
these podcasts, folks, and subscribe. It really helps to get the
word out and increases our subscriber base. You
can also follow me, your host, on Instagram,
ennifergrace. And yesterday I put up my
very first TikTok video. My
handle is, ennifergracethompson.
And, that's it until next week. Thank you for
listening, and goodbye.
>> Zibby Owens: Goodbye.