1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,860 Blythe Terrell: If you're complaining about vocal fry in the year of our 2 00:00:01,860 --> 00:00:03,779 Lord 2026, I'm deleting your comment. 3 00:00:04,590 --> 00:00:07,649 But if you're calling us out because you think that we mishandled something or 4 00:00:07,649 --> 00:00:10,909 you disagree with our findings or you think we mischaracterize something, like 5 00:00:10,939 --> 00:00:14,959 by all means, you know, like we're here to be peer reviewed as well in a way. 6 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:19,419 Neil McPhedran: Welcome to Continuing Studies, a podcast for higher 7 00:00:19,419 --> 00:00:22,959 education podcasters who want to learn, connect, and get inspired. 8 00:00:23,469 --> 00:00:27,429 I'm Neil McPhedran, founder of HigherEdPods.com and 9 00:00:27,429 --> 00:00:28,899 Podium Podcast Company. 10 00:00:29,229 --> 00:00:31,689 Jennifer-Lee: And I'm Jennifer-Lee, founder of JPod Creations. 11 00:00:31,689 --> 00:00:34,269 If you're podcasting in higher ed, you're not alone. 12 00:00:34,269 --> 00:00:36,879 There's a fast growing community out there, and we're 13 00:00:36,879 --> 00:00:38,169 here to help you tap into it. 14 00:00:38,259 --> 00:00:40,329 Neil McPhedran: That's right, Jen, and we'd like to hear from you. 15 00:00:40,596 --> 00:00:43,236 We've got our email in our show notes. 16 00:00:43,656 --> 00:00:48,726 Drop us a note, ask us questions, give us ideas for upcoming episodes. 17 00:00:48,726 --> 00:00:49,896 We really want to hear from you. 18 00:00:50,286 --> 00:00:53,286 Jennifer-Lee: Yeah, our email's in the show notes and please drop us a line. 19 00:00:53,706 --> 00:00:58,806 Neil McPhedran: Okay Jen, so today we are chatting with Blythe Terrell. 20 00:00:58,926 --> 00:01:06,856 She is the executive editor of Science Vs., which I think is probably one of 21 00:01:06,856 --> 00:01:11,386 the biggest podcasts from an audience perspective that we have chatted 22 00:01:11,386 --> 00:01:13,006 with here on continuing studies. 23 00:01:13,006 --> 00:01:16,366 I mean, let's be honest, higher education podcasts are typically 24 00:01:16,366 --> 00:01:21,546 more niche or niche as our American friends say, but Science Vs. 25 00:01:21,586 --> 00:01:22,486 is huge. 26 00:01:22,516 --> 00:01:26,956 It has upwards of over a half a million listeners for every episode, 27 00:01:26,956 --> 00:01:32,926 and according to Rephonic, they get over 2.2 million monthly listeners. 28 00:01:33,076 --> 00:01:33,466 Wow. 29 00:01:33,826 --> 00:01:34,786 Jennifer-Lee: It's crazy. 30 00:01:34,786 --> 00:01:37,966 And that's what I love, the power of podcasting. 31 00:01:38,206 --> 00:01:38,296 Neil McPhedran: Yes. 32 00:01:38,356 --> 00:01:41,146 Jennifer-Lee: Is that you don't even know you're reaching that many people. 33 00:01:41,206 --> 00:01:46,366 And we really enjoyed talking to her because not only is it a 34 00:01:46,366 --> 00:01:48,856 huge podcast, but the format too! 35 00:01:49,033 --> 00:01:52,148 When you think of those types of podcasts of like, oh, they're getting 36 00:01:52,148 --> 00:01:55,618 so many listens, we typically think of the big interview formats like Call 37 00:01:55,618 --> 00:01:57,068 Her Daddy and other ones like that. 38 00:01:57,138 --> 00:02:02,988 But this is a narrative podcast, which I think is great. 39 00:02:02,988 --> 00:02:05,688 It is a more heavy lift, and there's a lot more moving parts to it. 40 00:02:05,758 --> 00:02:09,388 But I think a big part of that success is that's narrative. 41 00:02:09,518 --> 00:02:09,878 Neil McPhedran: That's right. 42 00:02:09,878 --> 00:02:14,568 And Blythe is not only the executive editor for Science Vs., She's 43 00:02:14,568 --> 00:02:19,908 also a NYU instructor where she teaches the audio unit to graduate 44 00:02:19,908 --> 00:02:24,708 students at NYU's Science, Health and Environment Reporting Program. 45 00:02:24,708 --> 00:02:29,088 So I found that part of the conversation super interesting that she is not 46 00:02:29,088 --> 00:02:36,638 only a practitioner on a big spotify podcast, but she is also teaching and 47 00:02:36,638 --> 00:02:41,288 supporting the upcoming podcasting community from a science perspective. 48 00:02:41,378 --> 00:02:45,278 Jennifer-Lee: Yeah, and we also have a little cheeky conversation 49 00:02:45,648 --> 00:02:50,088 with the collaboration she has done in the past with Queen University. 50 00:02:50,088 --> 00:02:51,618 So let's get started. 51 00:02:51,648 --> 00:02:52,248 Neil McPhedran: Let's get into it. 52 00:02:53,848 --> 00:02:56,118 Welcome Blythe, it's so great to have you here on this 53 00:02:56,118 --> 00:02:57,978 episode of Continuing Studies. 54 00:02:58,158 --> 00:02:59,148 Blythe Terrell: Yeah, thanks for having me. 55 00:02:59,148 --> 00:02:59,928 Happy to be here. 56 00:03:00,048 --> 00:03:01,488 Neil McPhedran: Well, why don't we just start from the top. 57 00:03:01,488 --> 00:03:04,728 For those of our audience who aren't aware of it, 'cause I think most of 58 00:03:04,728 --> 00:03:08,038 us are, but tell us about Science Vs. 59 00:03:08,088 --> 00:03:09,738 and what's your role with the show? 60 00:03:10,698 --> 00:03:11,598 Blythe Terrell: Yeah, absolutely. 61 00:03:11,598 --> 00:03:13,098 So Science Vs. 62 00:03:13,168 --> 00:03:17,308 the tagline is kind of like we pit facts against everything else basically. 63 00:03:17,668 --> 00:03:22,558 So, we look at fads, trends, and the opinionated mob to find out what's fact, 64 00:03:22,558 --> 00:03:23,998 what's not, what's somewhere in between. 65 00:03:23,998 --> 00:03:25,618 That's the tagline we've had for a long time. 66 00:03:25,618 --> 00:03:29,728 But basically it just shows that does a bunch of rigorous research into 67 00:03:29,728 --> 00:03:31,138 the scientific research literature. 68 00:03:31,138 --> 00:03:35,263 We've got a team of producers, huge nerds and many with science backgrounds, 69 00:03:35,263 --> 00:03:38,983 and they do deep dives on topics that are in the news, roaming around the 70 00:03:38,983 --> 00:03:42,493 internet, all kinds of stuff to sort of lay out like, okay, what's got 71 00:03:42,493 --> 00:03:44,203 science behind it and what doesn't? 72 00:03:44,803 --> 00:03:46,393 Uh, so that's the conceit of the show. 73 00:03:46,963 --> 00:03:51,463 Started by Wendy Zuckerman, who's in Australia and I am the editor 74 00:03:51,463 --> 00:03:54,553 of that show, which I've been doing for about eight plus years now. 75 00:03:54,643 --> 00:03:57,343 Neil McPhedran: And a, a lot of the higher ed podcasters we 76 00:03:57,343 --> 00:04:01,843 interview are more straight up like this show, more interview style. 77 00:04:01,903 --> 00:04:05,253 We do come across some more narrative and whatnot, but Science Vs. 78 00:04:05,383 --> 00:04:06,163 is a bit different, right? 79 00:04:06,168 --> 00:04:08,953 You're, you're creating more stories and you're going deeper. 80 00:04:09,013 --> 00:04:11,983 You're kind of jumping in and out of an interview and grabbing clips. 81 00:04:11,983 --> 00:04:12,043 Blythe Terrell: Yeah, 82 00:04:12,163 --> 00:04:15,523 Neil McPhedran: I guess what I'm getting at is there's a lot more editing and 83 00:04:15,523 --> 00:04:17,053 there's a lot more of a team involved. 84 00:04:17,053 --> 00:04:19,243 Maybe you can just sort of fill us in on a bit of that. 85 00:04:19,453 --> 00:04:20,113 Blythe Terrell: Yeah. 86 00:04:20,113 --> 00:04:22,873 Our process is a huge pain, so yes, absolutely. 87 00:04:22,873 --> 00:04:23,893 We are a narrative show. 88 00:04:23,893 --> 00:04:27,613 We sort of try to do some storytelling around the side, and a lot of times that 89 00:04:27,613 --> 00:04:30,613 means, you know, like walking through a specific study with a particular 90 00:04:30,613 --> 00:04:33,433 researcher in the first half of the show, and then the back half of the 91 00:04:33,433 --> 00:04:34,603 show we're hearing from somebody else. 92 00:04:34,603 --> 00:04:37,418 Sometimes as many as four scientists who are sort of walking us through 93 00:04:37,418 --> 00:04:37,478 Neil McPhedran: Wow. 94 00:04:37,928 --> 00:04:39,788 Blythe Terrell: The story of their research, how they sort of 95 00:04:39,788 --> 00:04:41,258 came to a particular conclusion. 96 00:04:41,618 --> 00:04:43,628 So there are six of us. 97 00:04:43,688 --> 00:04:49,358 We've got four producers, and then Wendy is our host, executive producer, and then 98 00:04:49,358 --> 00:04:51,008 me, and then we have an audio engineer. 99 00:04:51,008 --> 00:04:55,838 And so everybody on this show is like running down scientific research, trying 100 00:04:55,838 --> 00:04:59,768 to find good talkers who can tell us stories, who we can have fun with. 101 00:04:59,768 --> 00:05:03,188 It's also a show that has a lot of like silly puns and goofy jokes. 102 00:05:03,218 --> 00:05:06,143 We take the science seriously, but not ourselves. 103 00:05:06,233 --> 00:05:06,623 So, 104 00:05:06,623 --> 00:05:06,803 Neil McPhedran: Love that. 105 00:05:07,373 --> 00:05:09,263 Blythe Terrell: We'll make a lot of very silly jokes. 106 00:05:09,263 --> 00:05:12,623 We make a lot of like nineties Disney movie references for some reason. 107 00:05:12,773 --> 00:05:14,303 Make a lot of John Wick references. 108 00:05:14,933 --> 00:05:15,083 Love it. 109 00:05:15,173 --> 00:05:15,233 Yeah. 110 00:05:15,233 --> 00:05:16,733 I'm like, why do we talk about John Wick so much? 111 00:05:16,733 --> 00:05:18,113 He's so relevant to so many things. 112 00:05:18,293 --> 00:05:23,578 Our show is like really heavily edited and cut together, and then we have 113 00:05:23,578 --> 00:05:27,168 the independent fact checkers come in, and then we rerecord, so there's 114 00:05:27,411 --> 00:05:28,821 a lot of pieces to the process. 115 00:05:29,031 --> 00:05:30,081 Jennifer-Lee: Why narrative though? 116 00:05:30,081 --> 00:05:34,581 Because I know there's so many different podcast formats and I love narrative. 117 00:05:34,586 --> 00:05:34,626 Neil McPhedran: Mm-hmm. 118 00:05:34,941 --> 00:05:37,191 Jennifer-Lee: Because of my background in theater and everything like that. 119 00:05:37,191 --> 00:05:41,121 But narrative is hard and it's a heavy lift. 120 00:05:41,121 --> 00:05:42,981 What made you guys go in that direction? 121 00:05:43,491 --> 00:05:46,731 Blythe Terrell: Honestly, I mean, part of it is that we started at a 122 00:05:46,731 --> 00:05:50,241 company called Gimlet Media, and the conceit of the company was kind of 123 00:05:50,241 --> 00:05:51,591 like, we make a narrative podcast. 124 00:05:51,591 --> 00:05:51,921 Right? 125 00:05:51,926 --> 00:05:52,006 Right. 126 00:05:52,011 --> 00:05:54,441 So, I mean, honestly, that's a big part of it is like that 127 00:05:54,441 --> 00:05:55,731 was the ecosystem we were in. 128 00:05:55,731 --> 00:05:59,546 And also, when this show started, it was 10 years last year, so it was 2015, 2014 129 00:06:00,731 --> 00:06:04,031 bubbling up and when the show started, that's what the ecosystem kind of was. 130 00:06:04,121 --> 00:06:04,391 Neil McPhedran: Right? 131 00:06:04,541 --> 00:06:06,431 Blythe Terrell: It was a narrative heavy time. 132 00:06:06,821 --> 00:06:07,031 Neil McPhedran: Yeah. 133 00:06:07,031 --> 00:06:08,381 Blythe Terrell: And you know, we've moved away from it a 134 00:06:08,381 --> 00:06:12,071 little bit in some episodes, but that's our DNA and we like it. 135 00:06:12,071 --> 00:06:14,171 And then sometimes we've been doing more two ways and more 136 00:06:14,171 --> 00:06:15,011 chats, you know what I mean? 137 00:06:15,011 --> 00:06:17,891 Like we've been mixing it, mixing it up a lot more because we're also 138 00:06:17,891 --> 00:06:21,371 in a space where we're needing to make more episodes at a faster clip. 139 00:06:21,876 --> 00:06:25,686 And we find as you're sort of alluding to that, sometimes we 140 00:06:25,686 --> 00:06:28,056 just don't have the time to give everything the narrative treatment. 141 00:06:28,326 --> 00:06:28,476 Neil McPhedran: Yeah. 142 00:06:28,476 --> 00:06:30,126 Blythe Terrell: And also, I don't know if everybody wants that all the time. 143 00:06:30,156 --> 00:06:30,366 Jennifer-Lee: Yeah. 144 00:06:30,366 --> 00:06:34,386 Well it's funny because you talk about not everyone has the time and obviously 145 00:06:34,386 --> 00:06:37,686 it's something that you and I hear all the time is like podcasting takes 146 00:06:37,686 --> 00:06:40,326 too much time and then you guys are like the whole different ball game. 147 00:06:40,656 --> 00:06:40,896 Blythe Terrell: Yeah. 148 00:06:40,901 --> 00:06:44,776 I mean, I think we all appreciate the puzzle of it, of narrative you know? 149 00:06:44,776 --> 00:06:47,806 Of sort of what's working, what's not, and how do you write this transition? 150 00:06:47,806 --> 00:06:48,706 How does this fit? 151 00:06:48,706 --> 00:06:53,386 And we have been lucky enough, I think, frankly, to have the resources 152 00:06:53,746 --> 00:06:56,116 in the team to make narrative. 153 00:06:56,116 --> 00:06:58,666 And for a while we were part of this production studio that had a 154 00:06:58,666 --> 00:07:01,396 lot of people who were teaching us, you know, how to make narratives. 155 00:07:01,396 --> 00:07:03,906 So I think that we were in a unusual position. 156 00:07:04,046 --> 00:07:06,706 I think most podcasters are not in that space where they're like, we've got. 157 00:07:07,266 --> 00:07:10,266 A company behind us and now our show's owned by Spotify. 158 00:07:10,296 --> 00:07:13,776 We just have more time and probably more resources money-wise than 159 00:07:13,776 --> 00:07:17,546 a lot of shows do, and it's a huge lift and it's not easy. 160 00:07:17,741 --> 00:07:17,861 Yeah. 161 00:07:17,881 --> 00:07:19,341 See, I mean, none of it's easy, but, 162 00:07:19,646 --> 00:07:22,766 Jennifer-Lee: but that being said, I'm really glad that there are production 163 00:07:22,766 --> 00:07:26,126 companies out there that do the narrative, because I think that's the one thing 164 00:07:26,126 --> 00:07:29,576 that I worry about with podcasting is that sometimes we all just get into the 165 00:07:29,576 --> 00:07:35,006 interview format because it's the one we see a lot and there's so many great 166 00:07:35,006 --> 00:07:36,866 different types of podcasting out there. 167 00:07:36,916 --> 00:07:37,126 Blythe Terrell: Yeah. 168 00:07:37,126 --> 00:07:39,676 For us, some days we're like, why do we make our lives so hard? 169 00:07:40,516 --> 00:07:40,606 Like, 170 00:07:40,606 --> 00:07:44,746 Neil McPhedran: But I think that's what sets the podcast apart and I think that as 171 00:07:44,746 --> 00:07:47,116 a listener, I truly like that part of it. 172 00:07:47,356 --> 00:07:51,586 I think for academia, actually more narrative would be better. 173 00:07:52,156 --> 00:07:54,976 When you're digging into like, like what you're tackling a 174 00:07:54,976 --> 00:07:58,516 topic, you're not bringing on a guest with a book necessarily. 175 00:07:58,516 --> 00:07:58,696 Right. 176 00:07:58,696 --> 00:08:01,336 And I think that's a totally different frame of reference. 177 00:08:01,336 --> 00:08:02,686 And I think in academia. 178 00:08:03,656 --> 00:08:08,606 Your way in makes a lot of sense where, and it's science focused, and so there's 179 00:08:08,606 --> 00:08:12,146 something you've observed or there's a problem, or you want to dig into 180 00:08:12,146 --> 00:08:15,956 something, you might need to talk to four different researchers about it to 181 00:08:15,956 --> 00:08:18,476 really properly get into that topic. 182 00:08:18,476 --> 00:08:18,776 Right. 183 00:08:18,776 --> 00:08:24,416 So I think the conundrum for higher education and academia is budget and 184 00:08:24,416 --> 00:08:27,746 without as much budget, it's hard to do in a narrative style and it's 185 00:08:27,746 --> 00:08:31,196 hard to chase down a story properly and interview for re researchers. 186 00:08:31,196 --> 00:08:31,286 Mm-hmm. 187 00:08:31,556 --> 00:08:31,916 Blythe Terrell: Yeah. 188 00:08:31,916 --> 00:08:35,201 And you know, I. I joke about this, or maybe it's not really a joke. 189 00:08:35,201 --> 00:08:38,216 I mean, I say that every one of our episodes is like an undergraduate 190 00:08:38,216 --> 00:08:40,886 thesis in terms of the amount of research that goes into it. 191 00:08:40,891 --> 00:08:40,991 That's great. 192 00:08:40,991 --> 00:08:43,226 You know, we tell everybody that how many citations we have, we 193 00:08:43,226 --> 00:08:45,656 release them publicly, we release our transcripts, fully cited. 194 00:08:45,656 --> 00:08:49,076 We have independent fact checkers holding our feet to the fire. 195 00:08:49,406 --> 00:08:50,876 You know, we're tweaking words. 196 00:08:50,876 --> 00:08:52,856 We're like, ah, it's percentage point, not percent. 197 00:08:52,886 --> 00:08:54,266 Like we're really in there. 198 00:08:54,326 --> 00:08:56,726 We still make mistakes, but we aren't trying to make sure that like we're 199 00:08:56,726 --> 00:08:58,016 representing all the research correctly. 200 00:08:58,016 --> 00:09:00,386 And it really, what we really are trying to do. 201 00:09:00,751 --> 00:09:02,881 Is to give people a glimpse of the research landscape. 202 00:09:03,211 --> 00:09:06,481 So you know, if you're covering a topic like autism, for example, like 203 00:09:06,481 --> 00:09:10,291 we did the autism episode last year, a couple of them, and it's like, we 204 00:09:10,291 --> 00:09:11,401 have to talk to four researchers. 205 00:09:12,121 --> 00:09:15,721 Our audience expectation is that like, you are gonna give me depth, right? 206 00:09:15,721 --> 00:09:17,021 And so a lot of times we're like. 207 00:09:17,741 --> 00:09:19,991 Okay, this is gonna be a project like buckle up. 208 00:09:20,021 --> 00:09:20,741 Here we go. 209 00:09:20,831 --> 00:09:24,911 Jennifer-Lee: I'm curious because I come from real background, so obviously we 210 00:09:24,911 --> 00:09:28,091 get a lot of feedback and commentary, especially with the topics that you 211 00:09:28,091 --> 00:09:29,801 guys are diving into, like autism. 212 00:09:30,101 --> 00:09:32,621 Do you guys get a lot of polarizing comments? 213 00:09:33,161 --> 00:09:38,321 Blythe Terrell: I mean, yes, we get comments, we get emails, people being 214 00:09:38,321 --> 00:09:43,811 mad on the internet, which is their right to be, but what's interesting is 215 00:09:43,811 --> 00:09:46,151 that we find sometimes we get comments and we're like, yeah, you know what? 216 00:09:46,151 --> 00:09:46,341 They're right. 217 00:09:47,471 --> 00:09:49,001 Like we could have healed that differently. 218 00:09:49,001 --> 00:09:50,861 Like that probably was not great. 219 00:09:51,311 --> 00:09:51,371 Hmm. 220 00:09:51,371 --> 00:09:52,361 Honestly, happened to us recently. 221 00:09:52,361 --> 00:09:53,201 We did an episode about. 222 00:09:53,876 --> 00:09:57,416 A case study where it's this new format we're trying, where we sort of look at one 223 00:09:57,416 --> 00:10:00,956 case study, like one paper where something sort of like surprising happened, right? 224 00:10:01,556 --> 00:10:06,926 And it was about, it was from the eighties and it was a girl in Lisutu in Southern 225 00:10:06,926 --> 00:10:10,886 Africa who basically the story, it was the story of her getting pregnant and 226 00:10:10,886 --> 00:10:13,406 then when she went into the doctor, they found that she didn't have a vagina. 227 00:10:13,556 --> 00:10:15,746 Like she had this particular condition where she didn't have 228 00:10:15,746 --> 00:10:16,796 like a full vaginal opening. 229 00:10:17,276 --> 00:10:21,056 And so we were talking about that case report in this episode. 230 00:10:21,956 --> 00:10:24,296 Then we got some feedback from people who were like, you guys were kind of like 231 00:10:24,446 --> 00:10:27,416 intending to laugh at her, but they're like, oh, you were sort of like you have 232 00:10:27,416 --> 00:10:31,766 a light tone and you're sort of talking about like, wow, this is a wild story. 233 00:10:32,036 --> 00:10:33,956 And you're not really thinking about the fact that like this is a 234 00:10:33,956 --> 00:10:37,856 15-year-old girl who is probably is experiencing something really traumatic. 235 00:10:37,886 --> 00:10:38,846 And that's an example. 236 00:10:38,846 --> 00:10:41,516 Like we got some feedback from a lot of our longtime listeners 237 00:10:41,516 --> 00:10:43,496 who were like, oh, I think you guys kind of missed on this one. 238 00:10:43,496 --> 00:10:44,666 And we were like, yeah, you know what? 239 00:10:45,356 --> 00:10:46,316 I think you're right. 240 00:10:46,346 --> 00:10:47,456 You know, we think you're right. 241 00:10:47,456 --> 00:10:48,566 So we. 242 00:10:49,316 --> 00:10:51,776 Really try to actually engage with a lot of those comments. 243 00:10:51,776 --> 00:10:51,896 That's 244 00:10:51,896 --> 00:10:52,016 Neil McPhedran: great. 245 00:10:52,721 --> 00:10:53,951 Blythe Terrell: Especially if they're in good faith. 246 00:10:53,951 --> 00:10:55,931 So on Spotify, they have, Spotify is a comment feature, 247 00:10:55,931 --> 00:10:56,921 and you can delete comments. 248 00:10:56,921 --> 00:11:00,461 If somebody is talking about women's voices, I just delete it, right? 249 00:11:00,461 --> 00:11:02,771 I'm like, if you're complaining about vocal fry in the year of our Lord 250 00:11:02,771 --> 00:11:04,481 2026, I'm deleting your comment. 251 00:11:05,291 --> 00:11:08,231 But if you're calling us out because you think that we mishandled something 252 00:11:08,231 --> 00:11:09,821 or you disagree with our findings or. 253 00:11:10,111 --> 00:11:12,931 You think we mischaracterize something like by all means, you know, like we're 254 00:11:12,931 --> 00:11:15,661 here to be peer reviewed as well in a way. 255 00:11:15,751 --> 00:11:16,051 Jennifer-Lee: Yeah. 256 00:11:16,051 --> 00:11:20,701 There's a difference between actual feedback and like just dumb comments. 257 00:11:20,701 --> 00:11:23,491 I feel like we could just create a podcast about dumb comments. 258 00:11:23,971 --> 00:11:24,481 Blythe Terrell: Oh my gosh. 259 00:11:24,781 --> 00:11:25,981 Well, you let me know. 260 00:11:26,161 --> 00:11:27,661 Neil McPhedran: It's not even just dumb comments. 261 00:11:27,661 --> 00:11:31,351 To your point about the vocal fry, we just, on one of the shows we work 262 00:11:31,351 --> 00:11:35,371 with, which is Stanford show, he interviewed another Stanford prof. 263 00:11:35,441 --> 00:11:39,671 Who she is just brilliant and she just had so much great stuff to say. 264 00:11:39,671 --> 00:11:40,061 And. 265 00:11:40,556 --> 00:11:44,576 That was like so many of the comments that came flying in and it just to discredit 266 00:11:44,576 --> 00:11:46,616 a person for, for just the sake of it. 267 00:11:46,616 --> 00:11:49,346 Jennifer-Lee: And so when I worked in radio and this, like I said, it's 268 00:11:49,346 --> 00:11:54,026 nothing new and I worked on a pop station and my boss, because I was a 269 00:11:54,026 --> 00:11:55,796 midday drive, we'd get phone calls. 270 00:11:55,796 --> 00:11:58,466 This is back in the time of phone calls, kids, no texting here, 271 00:11:58,616 --> 00:11:59,156 Blythe Terrell: and 272 00:11:59,156 --> 00:12:01,136 Jennifer-Lee: they would phone up and complain to him. 273 00:12:01,661 --> 00:12:02,561 About my voice. 274 00:12:02,561 --> 00:12:02,771 You know, they 275 00:12:02,771 --> 00:12:03,881 Blythe Terrell: wanted your voice to be higher. 276 00:12:03,881 --> 00:12:04,151 Like 277 00:12:04,151 --> 00:12:08,801 Jennifer-Lee: she, yeah, they wanted to be more what we perceive as it's changing 278 00:12:08,801 --> 00:12:12,401 now, but obviously there's a lot of psychology we perceive as more feminine 279 00:12:12,401 --> 00:12:14,651 when you're like up in a higher register. 280 00:12:14,981 --> 00:12:20,021 I luckily don't comment on this podcast, but luckily with podcasting, 281 00:12:20,021 --> 00:12:24,821 I've actually not gotten any comments about my voice until now. 282 00:12:24,821 --> 00:12:24,911 You're 283 00:12:24,911 --> 00:12:25,061 gonna 284 00:12:25,061 --> 00:12:25,601 Neil McPhedran: get one now? 285 00:12:25,721 --> 00:12:26,771 Blythe Terrell: It's so interesting. 286 00:12:26,831 --> 00:12:29,291 Or we'll get the ones that are like, oh, you say like too much. 287 00:12:29,291 --> 00:12:30,191 That kind of thing too. 288 00:12:30,266 --> 00:12:31,886 Jennifer-Lee: And that's why I always tell people you tried being 289 00:12:31,886 --> 00:12:35,576 on the air and see how good you are anyways, but like in real life I get 290 00:12:35,576 --> 00:12:36,656 comments on my voice all the time. 291 00:12:36,716 --> 00:12:37,706 Blythe Terrell: It's a great voice. 292 00:12:37,826 --> 00:12:38,216 Haters 293 00:12:38,576 --> 00:12:40,946 Neil McPhedran: not to delegitimize your deep voice there, Jen, 294 00:12:40,946 --> 00:12:43,616 but I love it 'cause I'm your co-host, but I do appreciate it. 295 00:12:43,646 --> 00:12:47,576 I wanted to just sort of jump back to the show notes and citations. 296 00:12:48,236 --> 00:12:49,526 Tell us a little bit more about that. 297 00:12:49,526 --> 00:12:52,706 That's the drum that I've been pounding and shows that we work with. 298 00:12:52,706 --> 00:12:56,876 We really lean into and really feel like the extra effort to create 299 00:12:56,876 --> 00:13:00,896 those citations to treat it with some of the academic rigor is important 300 00:13:00,896 --> 00:13:02,451 to have proper show notes to have. 301 00:13:03,236 --> 00:13:05,126 Chapters, transcripts, et cetera. 302 00:13:05,126 --> 00:13:07,256 Maybe you can tell us a little bit more about that, because I think that's 303 00:13:07,256 --> 00:13:09,236 important for higher ed podcasters. 304 00:13:09,296 --> 00:13:11,996 Blythe Terrell: Yeah, I mean, I think it's really useful in part 305 00:13:11,996 --> 00:13:15,386 because in podcasting, there's no way to really show your work. 306 00:13:15,446 --> 00:13:17,846 You're not going to name every paper that you read. 307 00:13:17,846 --> 00:13:21,236 You're not going to necessarily even name every scientist you spoke with or 308 00:13:21,236 --> 00:13:22,676 every academic you spoke with, right? 309 00:13:23,246 --> 00:13:27,566 There's not a way for people to get that information, and so they also don't know. 310 00:13:28,091 --> 00:13:31,061 The depth of research that you did, and that's kind of what we were finding. 311 00:13:31,061 --> 00:13:31,181 Oh yeah. 312 00:13:31,181 --> 00:13:33,461 You know, we sort of had people coming to us and saying, well, you came 313 00:13:33,461 --> 00:13:35,621 to this conclusion, but it seemed like you got there really quickly. 314 00:13:35,621 --> 00:13:39,011 And we were thinking about that and thinking like, you know what, maybe 315 00:13:39,011 --> 00:13:40,181 we're not showing our work enough. 316 00:13:40,211 --> 00:13:42,491 Maybe they don't understand that we are doing a lot of research. 317 00:13:42,491 --> 00:13:43,901 And you can say things like. 318 00:13:44,696 --> 00:13:46,466 I talked to 10 different scientists about this. 319 00:13:46,466 --> 00:13:47,426 Those things are helpful. 320 00:13:47,426 --> 00:13:52,196 But we realized that it was helpful to our listeners to feel as though they 321 00:13:52,196 --> 00:13:55,556 were getting the depth of research that we knew that we were giving them, and 322 00:13:55,766 --> 00:13:57,056 we got a really great reception to it. 323 00:13:57,056 --> 00:14:00,446 I mean, a lot of people will respond to us or we'll have kids who are like, this 324 00:14:00,446 --> 00:14:02,936 really helped with my paper honest stuff. 325 00:14:02,936 --> 00:14:03,266 Oh, perfect. 326 00:14:03,446 --> 00:14:06,536 Which is fine and great, but I think what we realized is that it 327 00:14:06,536 --> 00:14:07,886 really helped people understand. 328 00:14:08,246 --> 00:14:10,706 The work that was going into it, because it's so invisible 329 00:14:10,736 --> 00:14:12,386 in audio a lot of the time. 330 00:14:12,446 --> 00:14:14,576 And then having the transcription too, they could just see it. 331 00:14:14,636 --> 00:14:16,136 We're like, we're not trying to hide behind anything. 332 00:14:16,196 --> 00:14:17,756 Or if you look at our citation and you're like, I think you 333 00:14:17,756 --> 00:14:20,186 mischaracterized that paper, let us know. 334 00:14:20,186 --> 00:14:21,986 And that has happened too. 335 00:14:22,256 --> 00:14:26,456 You know, I mean, again, we, we find that we benefit from that level of transparency 336 00:14:26,456 --> 00:14:30,776 also, because if people want to look, they, they can, and we're not perfect. 337 00:14:30,776 --> 00:14:32,126 Maybe we did mess something up, you know? 338 00:14:32,836 --> 00:14:36,286 I think it just added some additional legitimacy to the 339 00:14:36,286 --> 00:14:39,226 research that we were doing on the show, and I would recommend it 340 00:14:39,406 --> 00:14:40,666 Neil McPhedran: back to the more work. 341 00:14:40,666 --> 00:14:44,446 But it's valuable work and it's work that I think coming from an academic 342 00:14:44,446 --> 00:14:48,121 background and our audience here is higher education podcasters, so mm-hmm. 343 00:14:48,646 --> 00:14:53,296 I am glad that you shared that, and I think that there's some just built 344 00:14:53,296 --> 00:14:57,496 beyond search, and I think that's kind of the thing that gets sort 345 00:14:57,496 --> 00:14:59,146 of chucked around in podcasting. 346 00:14:59,621 --> 00:15:03,431 Shove more into your show notes 'cause it's helps you with search in the apps, 347 00:15:03,431 --> 00:15:06,551 but your team is coming at it from a completely different reason and it's 348 00:15:06,551 --> 00:15:09,281 more of an academic rigor perspective. 349 00:15:09,341 --> 00:15:09,551 Jennifer-Lee: Yeah. 350 00:15:09,551 --> 00:15:12,731 I think it's so important and sometimes people just don't even wanna do the 351 00:15:12,731 --> 00:15:16,301 show notes and mm-hmm do the transcripts now, because some of the platforms that 352 00:15:16,301 --> 00:15:19,631 you're on, they charge you to upgrade. 353 00:15:20,006 --> 00:15:22,646 To put your transcript or things on. 354 00:15:22,646 --> 00:15:25,196 So if they're first trying and they have a budget, especially higher ed, we 355 00:15:25,196 --> 00:15:26,996 know sometimes the budgets are tight. 356 00:15:27,266 --> 00:15:27,446 Blythe Terrell: Yeah. 357 00:15:27,536 --> 00:15:28,976 Jennifer-Lee: People are like, well, I don't need to do that. 358 00:15:28,976 --> 00:15:33,266 And you're like, well, we can set it up properly or not, because again, that 359 00:15:33,266 --> 00:15:35,636 it's not just searchability for us. 360 00:15:36,356 --> 00:15:39,446 It's something that I hope doesn't go away, but we'll see. 361 00:15:39,446 --> 00:15:40,526 Blythe Terrell: Yeah, absolutely. 362 00:15:40,526 --> 00:15:42,896 I mean, we'll make a public transcript as a Google doc. 363 00:15:42,926 --> 00:15:46,406 We'll put it like a tiny URL into the show notes, and so just 364 00:15:46,406 --> 00:15:47,846 directing people to that space. 365 00:15:47,966 --> 00:15:48,926 But yeah, I get it. 366 00:15:49,376 --> 00:15:51,206 Because you really do kinda have to back check that, right? 367 00:15:51,206 --> 00:15:52,736 Like if you're putting it out and presenting it as 368 00:15:52,736 --> 00:15:53,816 like, okay, here's the work. 369 00:15:54,191 --> 00:15:57,011 You know, you can't be casual about it if you really want people to Yeah. 370 00:15:57,131 --> 00:15:58,361 Find that utility. 371 00:15:58,361 --> 00:15:59,861 But I think we've found it to be really useful. 372 00:15:59,861 --> 00:16:02,711 And our transcripts, oh, they're like popping up on Reddit or wherever 373 00:16:02,711 --> 00:16:06,011 and we see people using them in different ways, which we're glad about. 374 00:16:06,041 --> 00:16:08,681 I mean, the whole point of our show is like, we wanna get the best 375 00:16:08,681 --> 00:16:10,061 science that we can find out there. 376 00:16:10,061 --> 00:16:11,921 So like the more places it can go, the better. 377 00:16:12,101 --> 00:16:14,171 Jennifer-Lee: And I like the fact that students use it too, because 378 00:16:14,261 --> 00:16:15,071 I've talked about this before. 379 00:16:15,071 --> 00:16:18,791 I've heard coffee shop conversations of teachers being like, they're worried that. 380 00:16:19,171 --> 00:16:21,241 Kids are using too much AI without thinking. 381 00:16:21,241 --> 00:16:21,331 Mm-hmm. 382 00:16:21,571 --> 00:16:24,841 So the fact that they're listening to your show and grabbing the transcript, 383 00:16:24,841 --> 00:16:28,891 but they're at least like finding other sources besides just ai. 384 00:16:29,311 --> 00:16:31,531 Blythe Terrell: We're like transcripts made by humans for humans. 385 00:16:31,831 --> 00:16:35,191 Neil McPhedran: So not only are you one of the executive producers on 386 00:16:35,191 --> 00:16:37,682 Science Vs., but you also teach it NYU. 387 00:16:37,687 --> 00:16:39,991 Maybe you could tell us a little bit about that. 388 00:16:40,561 --> 00:16:40,831 Blythe Terrell: That's so cool. 389 00:16:40,831 --> 00:16:46,111 I do, so I've been teaching at NYU for about four years and I currently 390 00:16:46,111 --> 00:16:48,691 teach, they have a science, health and environmental reporting program. 391 00:16:49,136 --> 00:16:52,406 And it's a graduate program for master's students who wanna 392 00:16:52,466 --> 00:16:53,816 become science journalists. 393 00:16:53,906 --> 00:16:58,916 And so I've been teaching their audio unit for the past four years, and I also 394 00:16:58,916 --> 00:17:04,886 teach a course at NYUI teach podcasting to master's in PhD science students. 395 00:17:05,246 --> 00:17:08,246 So those students can be from any field. 396 00:17:08,711 --> 00:17:11,921 Any science field at all, and if they're interested in podcasting, in 397 00:17:11,921 --> 00:17:15,491 being on a podcast like as a guest in speaking about their research, I 398 00:17:15,491 --> 00:17:16,931 teach a workshop for them as well. 399 00:17:16,991 --> 00:17:18,221 They're both really fun. 400 00:17:18,251 --> 00:17:20,351 I love teaching both of these courses. 401 00:17:20,351 --> 00:17:20,921 It's been great. 402 00:17:21,461 --> 00:17:22,121 Neil McPhedran: That's excellent. 403 00:17:22,121 --> 00:17:27,281 So the, those are courses which are not part of a podcasting program per se. 404 00:17:27,371 --> 00:17:31,511 They're courses that are part of the science stream or sort 405 00:17:31,511 --> 00:17:32,501 of thing, is that correct? 406 00:17:32,591 --> 00:17:32,981 Blythe Terrell: Yeah. 407 00:17:33,161 --> 00:17:35,591 The Science, health and Environmental Reporting Program one is Right. 408 00:17:35,591 --> 00:17:39,491 That's for journalists and it's the only audio course that they do as part of 409 00:17:39,491 --> 00:17:43,061 that, unless they wanna, like NYU also has an audio program that's separate. 410 00:17:43,061 --> 00:17:46,961 So if they wanna go on to do more audio, they can, but what I 411 00:17:46,961 --> 00:17:48,046 teach is just sort of like this. 412 00:17:48,776 --> 00:17:51,866 Part of when they're learning everything they're doing writing courses, 413 00:17:51,866 --> 00:17:54,596 they're doing video courses, they're sort of doing investigative stuff. 414 00:17:55,076 --> 00:17:56,276 So that's what that first one is. 415 00:17:56,276 --> 00:17:59,216 And then the other one is a sort of workshop that's kind of outside of. 416 00:18:00,131 --> 00:18:03,371 For the science students, it's this workshop that's outside of their normal 417 00:18:03,401 --> 00:18:05,711 coursework and it's free for them to take. 418 00:18:05,741 --> 00:18:06,641 It's not for credit. 419 00:18:06,641 --> 00:18:09,671 So it's kind of like something that they really, if they really wanna 420 00:18:09,671 --> 00:18:13,721 like know more about podcasting, know more about audio, and also usually 421 00:18:13,781 --> 00:18:17,291 I start off by talking a lot about how to be a good podcast guest. 422 00:18:17,381 --> 00:18:18,671 My first lecture is usually like. 423 00:18:18,981 --> 00:18:21,351 How to be the kind of podcast guest that gets invited back. 424 00:18:21,411 --> 00:18:24,951 And we talk a lot about what that means and what journalists are looking 425 00:18:24,951 --> 00:18:28,971 for, what podcasters are looking for, and how they can speak about their 426 00:18:28,971 --> 00:18:32,061 research and lean into these different parts of their personalities, even 427 00:18:32,061 --> 00:18:33,591 if they want to connect with people. 428 00:18:33,591 --> 00:18:35,541 And because podcasting is so personal, right? 429 00:18:35,541 --> 00:18:37,971 You sort of also wanna connect with the people you're hearing. 430 00:18:37,971 --> 00:18:39,021 So we talk a lot about that. 431 00:18:39,081 --> 00:18:42,441 Jennifer-Lee: Well, scientists get such a bad rep for not knowing how to speak, 432 00:18:42,471 --> 00:18:44,571 or sometimes people may feel that. 433 00:18:45,071 --> 00:18:46,931 They're not very lively. 434 00:18:46,931 --> 00:18:51,611 So do you find that they enjoy doing a course where you kind of help 435 00:18:51,611 --> 00:18:53,531 them be better guests on podcasts? 436 00:18:53,621 --> 00:18:54,131 Blythe Terrell: Yeah. 437 00:18:54,131 --> 00:18:57,851 I found my last group in particular, I mean, they were like, it was a Friday 438 00:18:57,851 --> 00:18:59,291 morning class, it was three hours. 439 00:18:59,291 --> 00:19:00,221 They were like the breakfast club. 440 00:19:00,221 --> 00:19:00,701 By the end. 441 00:19:00,701 --> 00:19:03,611 It's like they're all texting each other, but they've all been, they all get excited 442 00:19:03,611 --> 00:19:07,151 about it because I think it's, I think it's a space where they can step outside 443 00:19:07,151 --> 00:19:09,551 of their lab or their regular coursework. 444 00:19:09,971 --> 00:19:13,331 The stakes are low, frankly, because it's not a graded situation. 445 00:19:13,331 --> 00:19:14,621 So they can kind of have fun. 446 00:19:14,981 --> 00:19:18,821 And I think that our show on science first is like the main thing. 447 00:19:18,821 --> 00:19:21,881 You know, we want, we want good information from scientists, obviously. 448 00:19:21,881 --> 00:19:23,501 Like we need the accuracy. 449 00:19:23,501 --> 00:19:24,041 We need like. 450 00:19:24,701 --> 00:19:28,421 Them to speak clearly about the science, but we also want them to have fun with us. 451 00:19:28,421 --> 00:19:28,511 Mm-hmm. 452 00:19:28,871 --> 00:19:31,421 And we wanna give a scientist on the show, a space to have fun, 453 00:19:31,421 --> 00:19:32,741 because that's the tone of the show. 454 00:19:32,951 --> 00:19:35,801 And sometimes you gotta be sensitive about that depending on the topic. 455 00:19:35,951 --> 00:19:39,371 But we have lots of scientists who come on who listen to the show sometimes and 456 00:19:39,371 --> 00:19:40,481 they're like, I'm ready to have fun. 457 00:19:40,541 --> 00:19:41,651 I'm excited to be here. 458 00:19:41,681 --> 00:19:42,011 We're gonna be 459 00:19:42,011 --> 00:19:43,061 Jennifer-Lee: playful a little bit. 460 00:19:43,061 --> 00:19:45,761 And so I try to take that energy to. 461 00:19:45,841 --> 00:19:47,161 Blythe Terrell: My classes too. 462 00:19:47,191 --> 00:19:47,281 You 463 00:19:47,281 --> 00:19:48,541 Jennifer-Lee: guys can have a little bit of fun. 464 00:19:48,541 --> 00:19:51,781 Blythe Terrell: I think my read as a non-academic, so hopefully you don't get 465 00:19:51,781 --> 00:19:54,961 angry letters about this, but I think the thing that I feel working with a 466 00:19:54,961 --> 00:19:58,471 scientist who wanna communicate their work is also, I think so much of the time 467 00:19:58,471 --> 00:20:02,551 is spent when you're speaking publicly, speaking to people who are in your field. 468 00:20:02,551 --> 00:20:02,641 Mm-hmm. 469 00:20:02,881 --> 00:20:05,491 Who understand your research and who you are. 470 00:20:05,671 --> 00:20:09,331 You're defending a thesis, you are giving a talk, you're doing a presentation 471 00:20:09,331 --> 00:20:11,701 of some kind, and you're talking to people who know what you are talking 472 00:20:11,701 --> 00:20:15,541 about, and there is a certain way that you need to talk and present yourself. 473 00:20:16,001 --> 00:20:21,161 That space to earn respect and to like connect with your fellow academics. 474 00:20:21,161 --> 00:20:21,461 Right? 475 00:20:21,671 --> 00:20:25,991 And that type of energy is so different from how you wanna appear on like a 476 00:20:25,991 --> 00:20:29,231 podcast that random people who know nothing about your field are listening to. 477 00:20:29,351 --> 00:20:29,471 Right? 478 00:20:29,561 --> 00:20:33,521 And you really have to code switch from that academic space into like, 479 00:20:33,581 --> 00:20:38,261 I'm about to talk to my neighbor next door, the person, another scientist who 480 00:20:38,261 --> 00:20:40,061 works in a completely different field. 481 00:20:40,781 --> 00:20:44,561 My grandpa, whoever, and I think that that's what I'm trying to like 482 00:20:44,561 --> 00:20:48,671 sort of help scientists do in those spaces is to say like, it's okay to 483 00:20:48,671 --> 00:20:50,621 not speak your academic language. 484 00:20:50,621 --> 00:20:53,231 And in fact, if you speak your academic language, the people who are 485 00:20:53,231 --> 00:20:55,266 listening to this are not going to understand what you're talking about. 486 00:20:55,836 --> 00:20:58,686 So we do a lot of, I think it's hard. 487 00:20:58,686 --> 00:21:01,566 I think it's very hard for a scientist to step outta that space. 488 00:21:01,566 --> 00:21:03,936 And I have a lot of respect for everyone who tries to do it, and I 489 00:21:03,936 --> 00:21:06,756 have a lot of respect for everyone who has figured out how to do do 490 00:21:06,756 --> 00:21:08,406 it well, because it's not easy. 491 00:21:08,646 --> 00:21:09,001 Jennifer-Lee: It is hard. 492 00:21:09,006 --> 00:21:10,506 Well, it's not just hard scientists. 493 00:21:10,506 --> 00:21:13,566 It's many industries when you're dealing with experts, right? 494 00:21:13,566 --> 00:21:17,406 And I do a lot of work in the home building space and love home builders, 495 00:21:17,406 --> 00:21:21,186 and they're smart and I can't build a house and they can, but like a lot of the 496 00:21:21,186 --> 00:21:25,446 technical jargon we have to be like, okay, tell the listener because you're ideal. 497 00:21:25,866 --> 00:21:28,626 Listener is a homeowner and the homeowner's not gonna 498 00:21:28,626 --> 00:21:30,936 understand all this jargon. 499 00:21:31,116 --> 00:21:31,206 Mm-hmm. 500 00:21:31,446 --> 00:21:32,436 About HVACs. 501 00:21:32,436 --> 00:21:33,906 Like, I don't know what an HVAC is. 502 00:21:34,086 --> 00:21:34,626 You know what I mean? 503 00:21:34,926 --> 00:21:35,796 Blythe Terrell: Yeah, exactly. 504 00:21:35,796 --> 00:21:38,676 It's like that is your area of expertise, which is why you're here. 505 00:21:38,676 --> 00:21:39,756 It's so valuable. 506 00:21:39,876 --> 00:21:42,546 And then your job as a podcaster is like to try to help them translate. 507 00:21:42,546 --> 00:21:44,321 They're amazing expertise, just something. 508 00:21:44,901 --> 00:21:45,891 Yeah, absolutely. 509 00:21:45,891 --> 00:21:48,081 I mean, and that's what's so fun about this particular workshop 510 00:21:48,081 --> 00:21:50,661 where it's a bunch of different scientists from different disciplines. 511 00:21:50,721 --> 00:21:54,981 You know, my math master's student needs to sit down with my biological 512 00:21:54,981 --> 00:21:58,941 anthropology PhD student, and they need to be able to have a conversation where one 513 00:21:58,941 --> 00:22:00,381 is drawing information out of the other. 514 00:22:00,381 --> 00:22:03,381 So we do a lot of that, and I think they find that to be really good practice. 515 00:22:03,441 --> 00:22:07,281 But like in asking other people questions and helping them explain 516 00:22:07,281 --> 00:22:08,781 their work is such a skill too. 517 00:22:08,781 --> 00:22:11,421 And I think it's also, it's humbling for me, right? 518 00:22:11,541 --> 00:22:14,331 But I also think it's kind of humbling to have that experience of like, oh, 519 00:22:14,331 --> 00:22:17,031 I'm trying to explain my research and here's where I'm stumbling. 520 00:22:17,031 --> 00:22:17,901 Why am I stumbling? 521 00:22:17,901 --> 00:22:19,821 And then asking somebody about the research and being like, 522 00:22:19,851 --> 00:22:21,081 oh, this part's hard too. 523 00:22:21,111 --> 00:22:21,501 You know? 524 00:22:21,501 --> 00:22:24,471 I think it's nice for them to be on all sides of that interview. 525 00:22:24,521 --> 00:22:27,611 To be the interviewer, the interviewee as well, and like learn all and 526 00:22:27,611 --> 00:22:28,961 learn both of those sets of skills. 527 00:22:29,171 --> 00:22:29,651 Jennifer-Lee: I love that. 528 00:22:30,041 --> 00:22:33,641 And just changing a little gears, because there was something else that I know 529 00:22:33,641 --> 00:22:38,831 we talked about before when you and I met, but you also have done two peered 530 00:22:38,831 --> 00:22:42,791 review papers with Queens University trial, just because the topics are 531 00:22:42,791 --> 00:22:46,366 something that Neil and I don't really get to talk about on this podcast. 532 00:22:46,946 --> 00:22:47,166 So 533 00:22:47,766 --> 00:22:49,061 Blythe Terrell: I love to talk about that. 534 00:22:49,061 --> 00:22:49,511 Yes. 535 00:22:49,601 --> 00:22:49,781 Perfect. 536 00:22:49,786 --> 00:22:49,966 Thank you. 537 00:22:50,496 --> 00:22:51,821 Thank you for bringing that up. 538 00:22:52,211 --> 00:22:53,931 Yeah, so Science Vs. 539 00:22:53,951 --> 00:22:57,281 The team has also has actually co-authored two peer review papers, 540 00:22:57,521 --> 00:23:00,971 as you mentioned, with uh, Queens University researchers, including 541 00:23:00,971 --> 00:23:07,271 Caroline Al is the PI of the lab up there, sex Lab, and those papers are on. 542 00:23:07,271 --> 00:23:13,001 The first one that we, that came out was on Blue balls, AKA epidermal Hypertension. 543 00:23:13,721 --> 00:23:15,881 Neil McPhedran: You're the first person on our show to ever say Blue Balls. 544 00:23:15,971 --> 00:23:16,211 Yeah, 545 00:23:16,811 --> 00:23:17,381 Blythe Terrell: exactly. 546 00:23:17,561 --> 00:23:20,741 Came to plan my flag as the first person to say Blue Balls on this show. 547 00:23:21,606 --> 00:23:22,806 So that's the first one we did. 548 00:23:22,806 --> 00:23:24,846 And I'll tell you the second one we did is about the so-called 549 00:23:24,846 --> 00:23:29,466 orgasm gap between cisgender hetero men and cisgender hetero women. 550 00:23:29,706 --> 00:23:33,096 Women who are cisgender, women who are in relationships with 551 00:23:33,096 --> 00:23:37,716 men tend to have fewer orgasms or orgasm less frequently than men do. 552 00:23:37,866 --> 00:23:37,986 Hmm. 553 00:23:38,106 --> 00:23:40,056 And so that's the other published research. 554 00:23:40,056 --> 00:23:43,206 That one just came out I think last year also with the same group of researchers. 555 00:23:44,126 --> 00:23:44,966 The bad story. 556 00:23:45,656 --> 00:23:49,916 We were working on episodes about these topics and as we mentioned, 557 00:23:49,976 --> 00:23:52,256 our show is heavily researched. 558 00:23:52,616 --> 00:23:55,736 You know, we really wanna give people the research landscape and as we were 559 00:23:55,736 --> 00:23:59,516 looking at these two topics, we were like, there is not that much research. 560 00:23:59,636 --> 00:23:59,756 Hmm. 561 00:23:59,936 --> 00:24:02,336 Like the, you know, the cupboard is a little bit. 562 00:24:02,666 --> 00:24:04,196 Bearer than we would like it to be. 563 00:24:04,226 --> 00:24:06,986 Jennifer-Lee: There's a lack of research on a lot of medical stuff. 564 00:24:07,106 --> 00:24:07,586 Blythe Terrell: Yeah. 565 00:24:07,586 --> 00:24:11,636 Well listen, and I'm not suggesting that that epidermal hypertension 566 00:24:11,636 --> 00:24:15,056 should get more funding than vaccines or anything like that, but I'm just 567 00:24:15,056 --> 00:24:16,376 saying, or you know, menopause. 568 00:24:16,646 --> 00:24:19,286 But we noticed there was not that much research and we were like, you 569 00:24:19,286 --> 00:24:22,616 know, could we do like a sort of casual, like a sort of survey of 570 00:24:22,616 --> 00:24:24,116 our listeners and just try to get. 571 00:24:24,196 --> 00:24:27,376 Some not official, not capital S science research, but can 572 00:24:27,376 --> 00:24:28,576 we get some research on this? 573 00:24:28,636 --> 00:24:32,626 And thousands of people responded to our survey for both of these topics. 574 00:24:32,626 --> 00:24:32,866 Right? 575 00:24:32,866 --> 00:24:32,926 Wow. 576 00:24:32,956 --> 00:24:35,836 So we had thousands of our listeners and they were sharing it out and 577 00:24:35,836 --> 00:24:38,746 obviously it's a convenience sample and we know that, but we got so 578 00:24:38,746 --> 00:24:41,296 much input and we got so much data. 579 00:24:41,476 --> 00:24:43,126 We were amazed by that. 580 00:24:43,346 --> 00:24:46,886 That Wendy the Ho, our host was like, you know what, could we publish this? 581 00:24:47,096 --> 00:24:48,056 Could we work with somebody? 582 00:24:48,146 --> 00:24:48,326 Hmm. 583 00:24:48,416 --> 00:24:51,746 So Dr. Caroline Pcal is a friend of the show, had been a guest before. 584 00:24:51,806 --> 00:24:54,566 So Wendy reached out to her and said, Hey, wouldn't you all be interested? 585 00:24:54,566 --> 00:24:56,366 Would your lab be interested in partnering? 586 00:24:56,711 --> 00:24:57,941 And she was like, well, lemme take a look. 587 00:24:57,941 --> 00:25:00,701 You know, lemme see if I can get sort of ethics approval and all these 588 00:25:00,701 --> 00:25:02,051 things that you need to do right. 589 00:25:02,051 --> 00:25:03,761 To sort of actually publish. 590 00:25:03,851 --> 00:25:04,931 And they did. 591 00:25:04,931 --> 00:25:07,901 They ran the statistical analysis, her team took it over. 592 00:25:07,901 --> 00:25:10,511 They analyzed the data, they wrote up the paper. 593 00:25:10,511 --> 00:25:12,281 We shared drafts back and forth. 594 00:25:12,341 --> 00:25:17,171 And both of those topics have been published in peer reviewed journals 595 00:25:17,261 --> 00:25:19,061 at this point, which is really cool. 596 00:25:19,151 --> 00:25:19,841 Neil McPhedran: That's amazing. 597 00:25:19,841 --> 00:25:19,901 So. 598 00:25:20,636 --> 00:25:23,156 There are the episodes, just like other episodes. 599 00:25:23,156 --> 00:25:23,246 Mm-hmm. 600 00:25:23,486 --> 00:25:26,726 But then there was a compendium from the research perspective, it 601 00:25:26,726 --> 00:25:30,986 was sort of more expanded upon, or did the episode itself encapsulate 602 00:25:31,106 --> 00:25:32,456 that research that was published? 603 00:25:32,816 --> 00:25:35,036 Blythe Terrell: So our episode schedule had to move faster 604 00:25:35,036 --> 00:25:36,386 than the academic research. 605 00:25:36,446 --> 00:25:36,656 Neil McPhedran: Yeah. 606 00:25:37,136 --> 00:25:37,736 Blythe Terrell: Schedule. 607 00:25:37,736 --> 00:25:38,246 Neil McPhedran: Makes sense. 608 00:25:38,366 --> 00:25:39,956 Blythe Terrell: So our episodes had come out and we said in the 609 00:25:39,956 --> 00:25:42,626 episode something like, oh, you know, this is our early findings. 610 00:25:42,626 --> 00:25:43,946 It's based on our survey. 611 00:25:44,336 --> 00:25:45,596 I'm gonna look up the papers, actually. 612 00:25:45,596 --> 00:25:47,726 So we mentioned the research casually in the. 613 00:25:48,266 --> 00:25:51,596 Episodes try to be clear that it's just a survey. 614 00:25:51,596 --> 00:25:54,176 It's not fully analyzed, it's not peer reviewed. 615 00:25:54,716 --> 00:25:57,716 And then the researchers basically took the ball and ran from there. 616 00:25:57,716 --> 00:25:59,006 And then the papers came out. 617 00:25:59,186 --> 00:26:00,806 I think in both cases years later, 618 00:26:01,256 --> 00:26:01,556 Neil McPhedran: we'll put it in 619 00:26:01,556 --> 00:26:01,766 Blythe Terrell: our 620 00:26:01,766 --> 00:26:02,516 Neil McPhedran: show notes too. 621 00:26:02,666 --> 00:26:04,946 Blythe Terrell: One of them we were able to pay to be open access. 622 00:26:04,946 --> 00:26:06,206 The other one, unfortunately. 623 00:26:06,326 --> 00:26:09,446 So the blue balls paper is actually, I mean it's about blue balls, 624 00:26:09,446 --> 00:26:10,946 but it is a serious topic, so. 625 00:26:11,606 --> 00:26:16,136 It's called Blue Balls and Sexual Coercion, a survey study of genital pelvic 626 00:26:16,136 --> 00:26:21,086 pain after sexual arousal without orgasm, and its implications for sexual advances. 627 00:26:21,416 --> 00:26:25,196 And the focus of that paper was actually like, how often are people feeling 628 00:26:25,196 --> 00:26:29,576 pressured into sexual activity that they might not want to participate in? 629 00:26:29,576 --> 00:26:31,856 Because someone else is saying, oh, I have blue balls. 630 00:26:31,856 --> 00:26:33,446 You gotta like help me out here. 631 00:26:33,716 --> 00:26:35,516 So that was actually the focus of the paper. 632 00:26:35,696 --> 00:26:38,306 Oh, whereas our episode was like a little more lighthearted than that, right? 633 00:26:38,306 --> 00:26:39,266 Like it's pretty serious. 634 00:26:39,761 --> 00:26:43,361 And then the orgasm gap paper is called Examining the orgasm gap in 635 00:26:43,361 --> 00:26:45,251 a diverse sample with mixed methods. 636 00:26:45,251 --> 00:26:47,531 And so that's sort of more like descriptive, but we 637 00:26:47,531 --> 00:26:48,731 have others in the works too. 638 00:26:48,911 --> 00:26:49,001 Nope. 639 00:26:49,001 --> 00:26:52,716 Well, I might be the first person to mention this topic on your show, so. 640 00:26:53,111 --> 00:26:55,661 So other research we have in the works, a poster was just 641 00:26:55,661 --> 00:26:57,041 accepted at a pain conference. 642 00:26:57,351 --> 00:26:59,241 About anal sex and pain. 643 00:26:59,421 --> 00:26:59,871 Jennifer-Lee: Oh wow. 644 00:27:00,201 --> 00:27:02,121 Maybe I should be the title of this podcast. 645 00:27:02,121 --> 00:27:02,511 Neil McPhedran: Maybe not. 646 00:27:03,231 --> 00:27:03,381 Blythe Terrell: Okay. 647 00:27:03,381 --> 00:27:03,981 Your clicks 648 00:27:03,981 --> 00:27:04,251 Neil McPhedran: that one. 649 00:27:04,251 --> 00:27:05,601 That'd be called clickbait, I think. 650 00:27:05,691 --> 00:27:06,171 Blythe Terrell: Exactly. 651 00:27:06,231 --> 00:27:09,681 You might end up with a shadow ban or an actual ban, but that one is more 652 00:27:09,681 --> 00:27:12,411 about like, you know, how often are people participating in anal sex and 653 00:27:12,411 --> 00:27:15,501 how often are they experiencing pain and like what are we seeing from that? 654 00:27:15,501 --> 00:27:18,021 And like who's reporting what and who's participating. 655 00:27:18,351 --> 00:27:18,441 Neil McPhedran: And 656 00:27:18,441 --> 00:27:20,571 Blythe Terrell: I think we had thousands, I should double check, 657 00:27:20,571 --> 00:27:23,841 but I think it's, I mean, it was more than 10,000 responses to that survey. 658 00:27:24,251 --> 00:27:26,591 And that's a topic where you're like, I don't know how many people 659 00:27:26,591 --> 00:27:27,701 are gonna wanna talk about that. 660 00:27:27,701 --> 00:27:28,061 Participate. 661 00:27:28,061 --> 00:27:29,801 And it turned out a lot of people did. 662 00:27:29,801 --> 00:27:30,701 So it was cool. 663 00:27:30,701 --> 00:27:32,771 And we can't say, I just can't say enough good things about the 664 00:27:32,831 --> 00:27:34,751 researchers at Queen University. 665 00:27:34,751 --> 00:27:36,461 They're just like absolute superstars. 666 00:27:36,461 --> 00:27:40,271 And we are in love with them and obsessed with them and very appreciative. 667 00:27:40,271 --> 00:27:40,781 Neil McPhedran: Wow. 668 00:27:41,461 --> 00:27:43,231 We're, we're Canadian, so we're biased. 669 00:27:43,231 --> 00:27:46,351 I think I know of about seven or eight kids going there right now, so 670 00:27:46,381 --> 00:27:48,091 Blythe Terrell: well tell them if they're interested in sex research. 671 00:27:48,121 --> 00:27:48,841 Neil McPhedran: Yeah, there you go. 672 00:27:49,086 --> 00:27:51,631 Blythe Terrell: We go Dr. Caroline, she's the one. 673 00:27:51,691 --> 00:27:51,841 Neil McPhedran: Good. 674 00:27:51,931 --> 00:27:54,871 I do think, like, I know we kind of chuckled about these topics a little 675 00:27:54,871 --> 00:27:59,131 bit here, but I wonder, do you think, because you're coming at it from a 676 00:27:59,131 --> 00:28:03,841 podcast and because as you sort of said originally the ethos has a little bit 677 00:28:03,841 --> 00:28:07,636 more of a humor, that you're not taking yourselves as seriously like, like mm-hmm. 678 00:28:08,161 --> 00:28:08,881 Perhaps. 679 00:28:09,281 --> 00:28:14,621 Getting more people to do a survey on a topic like this or tackling a topic like 680 00:28:14,621 --> 00:28:20,291 that, coming from it, where you're not out of the gates coming from participate 681 00:28:20,291 --> 00:28:22,781 in this academic science survey. 682 00:28:22,781 --> 00:28:22,871 Mm-hmm. 683 00:28:23,111 --> 00:28:24,741 There's more of a, the Science Vs. 684 00:28:24,761 --> 00:28:25,751 Wrapper around it. 685 00:28:25,751 --> 00:28:30,401 Like, do you think that that helps you sort of get people to participate? 686 00:28:30,406 --> 00:28:32,201 Blythe Terrell: I, I think there is an element of that. 687 00:28:32,411 --> 00:28:35,711 So first of all, we have great listeners who've stuck with us for many years. 688 00:28:35,861 --> 00:28:36,761 They're wonderful. 689 00:28:37,166 --> 00:28:39,836 And I think part of it is we call out and say like, Hey, do you wanna 690 00:28:39,896 --> 00:28:42,086 help participate in some science? 691 00:28:42,116 --> 00:28:44,696 You know, whether it becomes an actual published paper or not. 692 00:28:44,696 --> 00:28:46,196 I think they get excited about that. 693 00:28:46,736 --> 00:28:49,766 So we do have kind of a, an existing audience of people 694 00:28:49,766 --> 00:28:53,396 who love science, interested in science, and who love these topics. 695 00:28:53,396 --> 00:28:56,186 We do a lot of topics about sexual health on the show, and 696 00:28:56,186 --> 00:28:58,316 we find that they do really well. 697 00:28:58,316 --> 00:28:59,696 Listeners, a lot of them, they get really excited. 698 00:29:00,086 --> 00:29:02,486 So I think that's part of it, but I think it's, it sounds a little bit 699 00:29:02,486 --> 00:29:04,796 intimidating to join a research study. 700 00:29:04,796 --> 00:29:04,856 Yeah. 701 00:29:05,941 --> 00:29:07,651 And it's like, am I gonna have to talk to somebody? 702 00:29:07,651 --> 00:29:10,081 Do I have to fill out a survey with somebody with a clipboard? 703 00:29:10,111 --> 00:29:13,651 All these are also online surveys and it's a little bit easier to fill 704 00:29:13,651 --> 00:29:15,451 that out about a sensitive topic. 705 00:29:15,451 --> 00:29:15,781 Right. 706 00:29:15,781 --> 00:29:19,591 You know, I think we have a big, strong nerd community and 707 00:29:19,591 --> 00:29:21,061 I think that's a real asset. 708 00:29:21,211 --> 00:29:26,131 Jennifer-Lee: I also think that people just want to be more vocal now too. 709 00:29:26,161 --> 00:29:26,251 Mm-hmm. 710 00:29:26,491 --> 00:29:29,851 And talk about these topics because there's so many, before things were 711 00:29:29,851 --> 00:29:33,121 taboo, and even just with different health things I've gone through 712 00:29:33,121 --> 00:29:34,141 in the last few years, it's like. 713 00:29:34,646 --> 00:29:39,446 We all wanna talk about it and we want a community, and it's okay to talk about 714 00:29:39,446 --> 00:29:42,116 these things, where before everyone was like, don't talk about your health. 715 00:29:42,116 --> 00:29:44,546 And it's now it's like, wait, I'm not crazy because you 716 00:29:44,546 --> 00:29:45,986 are also talking about it. 717 00:29:46,406 --> 00:29:47,336 Blythe Terrell: I think that's totally true. 718 00:29:47,396 --> 00:29:48,956 I think there's been an unleashing. 719 00:29:50,256 --> 00:29:53,286 For lack of a better term, I be people wanting to share their health information 720 00:29:53,346 --> 00:29:56,616 and to feel less alone is, I feel like what you're alluding to is, yeah. 721 00:29:57,096 --> 00:29:57,246 You know, 722 00:29:57,246 --> 00:29:57,636 Jennifer-Lee: it's not just me. 723 00:29:57,636 --> 00:30:01,716 And it's like we laugh at these topics, but they're serious things and people too, 724 00:30:01,716 --> 00:30:04,776 like don't know, and they feel shy about it, so they probably feel like, mm-hmm. 725 00:30:04,776 --> 00:30:06,756 Oh wait, someone's asking me a survey about this. 726 00:30:06,756 --> 00:30:08,946 Like finally I feel heard. 727 00:30:08,976 --> 00:30:09,426 Blythe Terrell: Right. 728 00:30:09,666 --> 00:30:11,436 I've been training for this and, right. 729 00:30:11,616 --> 00:30:12,516 Yeah, exactly. 730 00:30:12,516 --> 00:30:14,436 And also it's, you're filling out a survey and I think it's really 731 00:30:14,436 --> 00:30:17,706 interesting to see when it pops out, whatever pops out in the research. 732 00:30:18,476 --> 00:30:21,986 So many people are experiencing the same types of things, and I think 733 00:30:21,986 --> 00:30:24,956 it is, even though it's just sort of survey data, we also collect 734 00:30:24,956 --> 00:30:26,786 sometimes qualitative data and common. 735 00:30:27,686 --> 00:30:30,566 We hear from a lot of people who are like, yeah, I experienced this thing, and then 736 00:30:30,566 --> 00:30:32,276 we see six or seven responses like that. 737 00:30:32,486 --> 00:30:32,876 I agree. 738 00:30:32,876 --> 00:30:35,516 I think there's an element of you're sort of joining a community of people 739 00:30:35,516 --> 00:30:38,426 who wanna talk about this thing, and I think that could be really powerful too. 740 00:30:38,786 --> 00:30:39,056 Neil McPhedran: Yeah. 741 00:30:39,206 --> 00:30:39,686 Interesting. 742 00:30:39,986 --> 00:30:44,696 Okay, well maybe just sort of end with your thought or your insider 743 00:30:44,696 --> 00:30:49,676 opinion on what might be some opportunity for higher education 744 00:30:49,676 --> 00:30:52,676 with Science Vs., and shows like it. 745 00:30:52,676 --> 00:30:54,446 Like what do you, where do you see this going? 746 00:30:54,446 --> 00:30:54,926 What do you see? 747 00:30:54,986 --> 00:30:56,696 You're part of academia. 748 00:30:57,086 --> 00:30:59,306 It's an academic research show. 749 00:30:59,306 --> 00:31:03,656 Like what do you see on the horizon for academia and for higher education? 750 00:31:03,656 --> 00:31:04,376 Podcasting? 751 00:31:04,556 --> 00:31:05,996 Blythe Terrell: Oh man, that's such a big question. 752 00:31:06,026 --> 00:31:06,326 Neil McPhedran: Yes. 753 00:31:06,446 --> 00:31:10,286 Blythe Terrell: I mean, I think there are people who have asked me, 754 00:31:10,286 --> 00:31:12,086 are there any topics that your show. 755 00:31:12,566 --> 00:31:16,466 Has decided it can't cover because they're too complicated, too 756 00:31:16,496 --> 00:31:19,106 jargony like, too science dense. 757 00:31:19,166 --> 00:31:20,846 And the answer to that is across the board. 758 00:31:20,846 --> 00:31:24,026 No, you know, I think you can podcast about anything. 759 00:31:24,056 --> 00:31:27,926 The message that I would give, and I think that the more people have access to. 760 00:31:28,396 --> 00:31:32,626 Podcasts, like sort of by academics, with academic rigor behind them, I think the 761 00:31:32,626 --> 00:31:34,576 better the podcast ecosystem is gonna be. 762 00:31:34,696 --> 00:31:38,746 So I would say it can feel thankless maybe, but I think even building a 763 00:31:38,746 --> 00:31:43,426 small community of people who are with you and interested in what you're doing 764 00:31:43,426 --> 00:31:46,306 and wanna hear your science, or they wanna share their science with you, 765 00:31:46,306 --> 00:31:47,296 are you gonna bring 'em on your show? 766 00:31:47,296 --> 00:31:49,096 I think all of that is tremendously valuable. 767 00:31:49,486 --> 00:31:51,376 I think that is where I'd like to see us go. 768 00:31:51,406 --> 00:31:53,476 Continuing to sort of build community with each other. 769 00:31:53,506 --> 00:31:53,836 Right. 770 00:31:53,866 --> 00:31:55,366 And people can get in touch with me. 771 00:31:55,396 --> 00:31:56,326 Scientists can get in touch. 772 00:31:56,326 --> 00:31:59,206 People who are a more ha, happy to get in touch because I really think 773 00:31:59,206 --> 00:32:02,476 also we're at a time where we need to be working together more than ever. 774 00:32:02,716 --> 00:32:02,926 Neil McPhedran: Great. 775 00:32:02,926 --> 00:32:03,886 Blythe Terrell: So that's the other thing I would say. 776 00:32:03,981 --> 00:32:04,061 Neil McPhedran: Excellent. 777 00:32:04,991 --> 00:32:07,151 Jennifer-Lee: See, and I thought ending on blue balls was a good 778 00:32:07,151 --> 00:32:08,231 way to end the conversation. 779 00:32:08,231 --> 00:32:08,381 Neil McPhedran: What? 780 00:32:08,381 --> 00:32:09,401 You brought it back, Jen. 781 00:32:10,721 --> 00:32:13,631 Blythe Terrell: Listen, I don't wanna, I don't wanna de make your podcast any 782 00:32:13,631 --> 00:32:19,496 less classy, so I was gonna, you bring it back to the higher ideals, Jen Academia. 783 00:32:19,497 --> 00:32:19,527 I love it. 784 00:32:20,231 --> 00:32:22,061 Jennifer-Lee: We're talking about actual. 785 00:32:22,356 --> 00:32:23,556 Medical conditions. 786 00:32:23,556 --> 00:32:24,666 Got science, 787 00:32:24,696 --> 00:32:26,016 Blythe Terrell: epidermal, hypertension. 788 00:32:26,021 --> 00:32:26,281 There you go. 789 00:32:26,406 --> 00:32:27,006 Jennifer-Lee: There we go. 790 00:32:27,366 --> 00:32:29,076 We'll on that, thank you so much. 791 00:32:29,076 --> 00:32:30,186 We'd love to have you back. 792 00:32:30,306 --> 00:32:30,726 Yeah. 793 00:32:30,846 --> 00:32:33,486 And next time Neil and I are in New York, we'll look you up. 794 00:32:33,576 --> 00:32:33,876 Neil McPhedran: Yes, 795 00:32:33,876 --> 00:32:34,506 Blythe Terrell: please do. 796 00:32:34,506 --> 00:32:35,106 Thanks for having me. 797 00:32:35,106 --> 00:32:36,106 This was so fun, fun. 798 00:32:36,106 --> 00:32:37,116 Appreciate what y'all are doing. 799 00:32:37,206 --> 00:32:37,476 Neil McPhedran: Great. 800 00:32:37,551 --> 00:32:39,651 Thank you, Jen. 801 00:32:39,771 --> 00:32:40,731 What a great interview. 802 00:32:40,791 --> 00:32:46,401 And I think I can safely say that is probably the only episode we will 803 00:32:46,401 --> 00:32:51,861 record for Continuing Studies where we talk about blue balls and anal sex. 804 00:32:52,131 --> 00:32:53,331 Jennifer-Lee: That was shocking to me. 805 00:32:54,171 --> 00:32:57,111 But you never know what we're gonna get on Continuing Studies 806 00:32:57,291 --> 00:32:59,061 and they're important topics. 807 00:32:59,691 --> 00:33:00,081 Neil McPhedran: Yes. 808 00:33:00,081 --> 00:33:01,491 And as we, uh, 809 00:33:01,491 --> 00:33:02,931 Jennifer-Lee: from a scientific perspective, 810 00:33:02,931 --> 00:33:03,351 Neil McPhedran: that's right. 811 00:33:03,351 --> 00:33:05,211 And there we weren't just talking what. 812 00:33:05,351 --> 00:33:05,891 Blue balls. 813 00:33:05,891 --> 00:33:07,781 Jennifer-Lee: We are an educational podcast. 814 00:33:07,781 --> 00:33:08,171 Neil. 815 00:33:08,321 --> 00:33:09,131 Neil McPhedran: That is right, Jen. 816 00:33:09,191 --> 00:33:09,521 Okay. 817 00:33:09,821 --> 00:33:12,281 I don't know what more we can add to this outro. 818 00:33:12,281 --> 00:33:13,421 So I think you should just read us. 819 00:33:13,691 --> 00:33:16,571 Jennifer-Lee: Thank you for tuning into the Continuing Studies podcast, a 820 00:33:16,571 --> 00:33:18,851 podcast for higher education podcasters. 821 00:33:19,091 --> 00:33:21,296 We hope you found this episode informative and inspiring. 822 00:33:22,411 --> 00:33:26,191 If you enjoyed the show, we encourage you to follow and subscribe to our 823 00:33:26,191 --> 00:33:30,391 podcast on your preferred platform, so you'll never miss an episode. 824 00:33:30,421 --> 00:33:34,891 If you found this episode particularly valuable, please consider sharing 825 00:33:34,891 --> 00:33:38,011 it with your friends and colleagues who also might be interested 826 00:33:38,011 --> 00:33:39,931 in a higher education podcast. 827 00:33:40,231 --> 00:33:45,421 We also invite you to join your peers on higher ed pods.com, where you can connect 828 00:33:45,421 --> 00:33:49,336 with other podcasters in higher education and learn from others in the field. 829 00:33:49,716 --> 00:33:51,816 Thank you for being part of our community. 830 00:33:51,816 --> 00:33:55,566 We look forward to continuing to bring you valuable insights and conversations 831 00:33:55,896 --> 00:33:57,816 around higher education podcasts. 832 00:33:57,816 --> 00:33:59,196 See you in the next episode.