Alison: And then we're, we became best friends.
Uh,
Matt: And then, and you're like, I love you, and Oh, I'm super comfortable now.
Are You Yeah.
Sarah: You could see my visual spatial working memory issues.
Alison: I don't know what you're talking about yet cuz we haven't
unfolded the assessment results.
Matt: Oh yeah.
All right.
Okay.
So first have to say, um, hi Alison.
Alison: There it is.
Hi, Matt, we can't, we can't start a podcast without those two
words in exactly that inflection.
Matt: Hi Alison.
I'm very excited about today's podcast.
Because, today marks the second guest that has ever been had on ADHd20,
which is a podcast that tries to find the correlation of ADHD and RPGs.
Alison: Yes.
You know, I love this because it's season two, episode two, second guest ever.
Matt: Oh my God.
Two, two.
Sarah: You, Do you know my birthday is two, two?
Alison: No.
Sarah: It's February 2nd
Alison: Stop it.
Sarah: And I'm turning 44 this year, which are multiples of two.
Alison: Oh my.
Okay, okay.
Okay.
Mind blown.
Show over.
Can't go on.
Sarah: That's it.
Everything's connected.
Alison: That's not even...
Matt: That is weird.
Alison: Everything, Everywhere, All At Once.
Yep.
Matt: I I love it though.
Sarah: So happy they got nominated.
Matt: I know.
Me too.
Alison: I know.
Me too.
Matt: Do you wanna, you guys wanna just like spend the entire
hour talking about that movie?
Everything Everywhere all At Once?
Yes.
Okay.
Alison: Let's be very ADHD and not, and just avoid the task at hand completely.
And.
Sarah: We'll do it next time.
Matt: Yeah.
Alison: Okay.
Okay.
I love it.
You know, we know who our beautiful, intelligent, funny guest is.
Uh, our listeners just are hearing this voice from beyond.
Uh, Sarah, please, please introduce yourself.
Tell us, Tell us, you know,
Matt: What kind of topics do you like?
Sarah: Oh, friends.
I have an undergrad in musical theater.
I have a graduate degree in special education.
I'm like really into love and not like in the like, , surface love
that a lot of times people get caught in, but like everything's
connect, like everything everywhere.
All at once.
Love.
Yeah.
You, you've all seen it.
Yeah.
That's real.
And I'm like trying to tap into that in every conscious way I
possibly can and it really helps.
Alison: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: That doesn't tell you very much about me.
Matt: It actually does.
That's actually a pretty good intro to my friend.
So I, I have known Sarah since we were both very young.
Uh, she is also a Winston-Salemite, Winston-Salem, North Carolina, which
you call Winston if you're from there.
And, uh, the moment I remember is, we had Krispy Kreme together and we were
all sitting outside and I was already in the rock band, uh, at that moment.
And you guys, I think something Amy just said, Hey, you wanna go to Krispy Kreme?
I was like, cool man.
I'd love Krispy Kreme.
Sarah: Amy was the coolest, She is the, the coolest.
She's the coolest.
Yeah.
We used to, we were teenagers and you were our favorite band, and we
would bake cookies for you before the show and bring them back.
Like the nerdiest, dorkiest you can think of.
Yeah.
Um, because we loved your art and we loved you because of your art.
So that's, it's so, and it's like, you know, Alison, how
you're like I was a fan first.
So, sitting here talking to y'all is like, what's my life right now?
Alison: Mean, same.
I do say that often, that if I could go back and explain to 19 year old
Alison what's coming in about 20 years, she wouldn't believe me and I, I, I'm
guessing 19 year old Sarah either.
Sarah: No, It is the truth that like every seven years, all our cells regenerate.
Yeah.
And we become a whole new being.
Yeah.
But our bio computers, remember our old beings.
Yeah.
So there's a lot of disconnect sometimes with people's, like emotional state
of being on reconciling that that was like the old operating system.
Matt: Wow.
Sarah: Yeah.
you've upgraded, you've ascended your new levels.
Alison: Something I'm actively working on is how to assess
the changes that I wanna make.
But then also honoring your former self for getting you that far.
So it's okay to say you were really loud and really obnoxious for a
long time, and that's the way that you protected yourself and that's
the way that you carried yourself.
But now is the time to start listening to other people self and
not hate on the former, you know,
Sarah: yes,
yes.
Yes,
So when you're talking to yourself in your head, it's, what am I
saying to myself both out loud?
I mean, if you talk out loud to yourself like I do or to, to yourself
in your head like, oh, I'm so dumb.
I shouldn't have done that.
Stop that.
Do the work to stop that lovingly.
Don't be like, I'm so stupid.
Oh, I shouldn't say that.
I'm, ugh.
I'm so mad at myself.
Like it becomes this rolling ball down the hill of I feel guilt and shame for
the thing that I'm trying to change.
And that does not help in the ascension away from it.
Yeah.
So,
Matt: Because you're moving downwards.
Sarah: You're doing the work.
Alison Good Good for you.
Matt: Oh, she's doing the work.
Alison: And it starts, it starts with setting the intention of,
I'm going to recognize when I do it, queuing people to help you.
So Matt is one of my helpers.
Well, he will in a moment say, I need to stop you right there.
That wasn't nice self-talk.
And then again, it's the learning, so I said something mean to myself.
I'm not gonna harp, I'm not gonna sit with that.
I'm just going to choose some different words and keep moving forward.
And every time it does get a little easier to the point where you used to
say, I'm so nervous, I'm so anxious.
So it's just rewiring myself instead of saying, I'm so anxious about this,
to say I'm so excited about this.
It's the same feeling in my body.
I'm just am choosing a different word for it actively by setting that
intention that I would notice when I'm talking about being nervous.
Sarah: Absolutely genius.
You're genius.
Alison: I'm so ready to to get nerdy with all of
Matt: Yeah.
I, I don't wanna stop it, but but, we do need to, Roll some dice.
Alison: Sarah, I, I think you should, I think you should get the
first roll today and remind me you have or have not played any D&D?
Sarah: I've been begging Matt, but he's busy.
Matt: I, I'm busy.
but but
Sarah: I'm busy, too.
It's okay.
Matt: But one of my themes to, to your point, is to play more this year and
I've, I have, uh, I've been talking.
I've been, I've been trying to work it out.
Anyway, these are the, the ones that you can choose from for, so
while you do that, I'll, I'll finish the story of the weirdness of then
how we got reconnected as adults.
Through the, this is gonna actually fit into the D&D world, which is, we met again
through The Chicago improvisational scene.
And then we were like, oh my God, I know you What?
And then, and now we're neighbors.
Sarah: We're neighbors!
Matt: It's, it's a beautiful story.
Sarah: It's beautiful.
Matt: It's a gorgeous story.
Sarah: it's really wonderful.
Okay.
Matt: Oh, 65,
Sarah: 65's good.
Alison: Let's go.
Oh, interestingly enough, so this is actually the question Matt had last week.
Sarah: Synchronicities.
My goodness.
Alison: So your question is for the second time, if you could live in any
fantasy location, where would you choose?
Sarah: I mean, like Middle Earth, look at it.
Matt: Yeah.
Alison: There it
Sarah: Look at it it's got everything, yo.
Matt: it has great terrain.
Sarah: Or where do they come, where do the elves come from?
Alison: So let's, yes, and this, so you live in Middle Earth, and I think you
just answered the question for me, but do you wanna be an elf are you a hobbit?
Or like, are you a dwarf?
Are you
Sarah: Totally an Mm-hmm.
But a nice one.
Not a
Alison: You're totally an elf.
Sarah: Like, a nice one.
Alison: You're such a wise, magical, ethereal being that I'm buying all of it.
I think you might actually be an elf.
Sarah: I'm not gonna go full Grimes or anything and get those ears, but
Matt: Bless your heart,
Sarah: Grimes,
Alison: Oh, the nerd force is strong with this one and I am here.
Matt: Oh, man.
Sarah: Good.
Good, um, like seriously, I'm in nature.
When I'm like, what matters?
Nature.
When I'm like, I can't, have dying emotionally, I need help.
And I know that if I go on a walk, I'm like, oh, I'm fine.
It's crazy.
If I could be a doctor, I would be like, what's wrong?
Okay, If you can go on a walk.
Matt: Uh, Alison, I'm going to have to pause for a second and,
and get the d100 link from you.
I, you know what, what, I, need to do is I need to add it to Slack as a hot.
I'm gonna do it right as we do this.
Yeah, it's in a big, so if I copy the link and then I go to,
uh, text expander that's good.
And then I'm gonna close it.
So now when I Do
Sarah: I do wanna point out that like how Matt is talking through
his processes right now is playing to, I mean, his strength, which
is why y'all's scores are so good.
Matt: Oh, spoiler
Alison: so good.
I will say Matt and I are nothing if not self-aware.
Like we have definitely honed processes that work for us and figured.
Sarah: That is the beauty of the self-awareness is as soon as you've
like our onion selves, as soon as you've uncovered one level of
awareness, there's like whole new ones that you're like, oh, Oh!
And the, the trending towards awe and wonder as opposed
to guilt and shame is where.
Alison: Oh, trending towards awe and wonder.
I wanna bottle up the way that I felt when I heard you say that
for the first time and remember it
Matt: Good.
Sarah: That should be on my gravestone trend towards awe and wonder.
Alison: Trending towards awe and wonder.
Okay.
Uh, I am a,
Matt: Thirty one.
If you could give Matt, Alison, or our guest a superhero name,
what would it be and why?
We've never gotten this one.
Alison: You just, you just set us up for it.
Sarah, I, I officially dub thee "Awe and Wonder Woman"
Sarah: What I leveled up.
Alison: I mean, that just
Sarah: Things vibrating.
Matt: Level up.
That was so good.
Sarah: Fireworks!
Matt: That was so good.
Alison: That was, I was, that was all you.
You set that right up and I just spiked it over the
Sarah: net.
Perfect.
We're best friends.
Matt: I know it.
God bless.
Alison: it.
Sarah: I told Matt, I was like, I'd be really good friends
with Alison when I meet her.
Matt: Yep, she did say that.
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
.And here we are.
We're dancing.
Uh, okay.
Alison: on,
Matt: Oh yeah.
And I'm going to of course use my new dice.
64.
Sarah: 64.
That's one less than 65.
Alison: 64.
I love this question for you specifically, Matthew Bivins, aside from D&D,
what's the nerdiest thing about you?
Yeah.
There's no one thing, but pick your favorite nerdy thing about
yourself since you have so many.
Matt: Well, yeah, it has to.
it has to.
be.
I mean, I, I guess show of hands how many people watch videos on YouTube about
Obsidian or Notion or Airtable for fun?
Sarah: I watch about obsidian the stone because I'm into rocks, so you know,
Matt: Well, that would also be nerdy I think rock crystals are far
cooler than PKMs, but I think, um, that's probably the nerdiest thing.
Would, would you, would you agree.
I would agree.
Okay.
So,
Alison: Well, I, I think that now we get to dive right on
into the meat and potatoes.
Matt: So here, I'll, I'll give a little backstory here.
Sarah has been working uh, very hard just, on all the things that she's
mentioned before, just, uh, self, wise.
And, in doing so, there's a new job.
There was a time where she was in a job that she deeply loved and was not giving
her what she needed, and she moved on.
And I think it's it's, still a process and a search almost.
But I tell you one thing, dude, you are on the right track of 1000% like this one.
So nice dude.
This one and that one actually pointing to Alison.
I think y'all, the two of you absolutely, are, you know, most, grab the bull by
the horns moving forward, changing the things about that they, that they did
not love and moving forward and better.
And Sarah too.
And, she has a job where she helps people.
And especially neuro spicy people.
Sarah: That's my job.
Matt: And uh, so we're, we're rooting for her to dive more into that.
Maybe even on a more personal level.
Sarah: I have three personal clients now.
Yes.
Matt: Three.
Three.
Sarah: three.
I had one last week and now I have three.
Alison: That's amazing.
I mean, come
Matt: it is amazing.
And through work
Sarah: It's manifestation too, Alison.
It is.
It's just, you're like, it's happen, it's happening.
You're like, in awe and wonder of it.
You're like, oh, I'm do, I'm doing this.
Alison: And the more it happens, the better you feel and the better you
feel, the higher your vibration and the higher your vibration, the more
that you're pulling in all of your hopes and dreams and magic and so
Matt: Awe and Wonder Woman!
So when you got this newer job
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Matt: You had access to this, cognitive assessment report.
Yes.
And, uh, this, this report, put out by Cambridge.
Sarah: it's a Computerized standardized assessment
Matt: Yes.
Sarah: Of cognitive functioning.
And it's by Cambridge Brain Science,
Matt: Brain Science, yes.
Sarah: Cambridge did all of the norming I mean, test stuff is so nerdy.
If you wanna get a master's degree, you can just go into assessments.
But I I wanted y'all to take it cuz I've been listening to the podcast and
I was like, oh, these are crazy awesome nerdy adults that probably love data.
And when you can get data about your, what your, brain is doing, because
we're not always conscious of that.
It can be very powerful and it can be like aha moments of like, oh yeah, this
totally connects to the way I do this.
And it's again, bringing another layer of that onion of awareness and power.
Power!
Matt: I love it.
The funny thing, of course is that you had to send me a link to this test three
times because, Well, when you click on the link, I was always excited to do it.
But it, says, this is gonna take you 45 minutes and you gotta be,
you gotta lock yourself down into a basement and don't talk to anybody.
And you know, and I, and I said, okay, I can do that.
But then it's just hard for me to sit down and actually do it until I decided
to body double pair with my friend Alison.
And then we got it done.
And, uh, it is fascinating.
And if, and you, you gave me all kinds of warnings like, Hey,
Sarah: I did, I was annoying to Matt.
Matt: You're gonna get stressed out like this.
Sarah: it's okay.
I just took it again.
And I wanna tell you this, it depends like the day, the time of day
Alison: Nothing about my brain likes a standardized test.
I don't think that's neuro spicy.
I just think that's human nature, by the way.
So Matt and I, at the same time, we, we got onto, a Slack huddle.
We both went on mute so we couldn't hear or see each other.
Cause we got this, you know, warning that you can't be distracted while you do this.
You have to shut everything down.
And immediately I hate it.
Like I can feel, I'm not a very grounded in my own body person.
I, a lot of therapists have, not liked this about me.
They're like, how do you feel in your body right now?
And I'm like, what does my body have to do with my brain?
Let's keep talking about my thoughts, right?
So like it, but in my body, I can feel the anxiety rising, like lava into my throat.
And I, and I hated it with every ounce of my being.
Except for, I knew that Matt was on the other side of the mute button feeling
the same way, and there was some level of like, we're in this together and
there's a reason that we're doing this.
And that is what got me through the brain assessment.
Sarah: What incredible feedback.
like at any part of a test, even like the how you're prepping or how
you feel about it are like huge data points that are not usually talked
about in standardized assessments like when they give you the report.
Matt: Interesting.
Sarah: It's very technical.
Alison: Yep.
Sarah: Oh man.
I was like, getting ready for the podcast.
I was like, how am I gonna talk about this?
Matt: Yeah.
Sarah: Um, especially because I had asked Alison if she wanted the
results before, and she was like, no.
Reveal, reveal on the podcast.
And I was like, yes, definitely draw.
I love it.
Uh, the drama.
And then I was like, wait a minute, because, I would never, as
a professional sit down with two people and give friends and give
them their scores publicly together.
Matt: Oh, yeah.
Oh, I don't care about that for sure.
Sarah: Um, and I I, didn't think y'all are doing this podcast to bring
people into the fold and like show vulnerability and talk about it,
which helps, it helps everybody to feel like I'm not, I'm not alone in
these things that I feel like About.
There's other people that experience that.
Yeah.
Maybe in different ways, but we're same boat.
Yeah.
So, I like that.
Alison: By the way, I will mention I, because I, I feel like
I was just very negative about
Sarah: It was!
Alison: Test, even though I'm, I'm loving all this, that it's, it's, brought us
together, but I love an assessment.
I am an Enneagram seven.
I am somewhere between a D and an I on a DISC assessment.
I am E N F P . I am a Woo in Gallup.
Like I, we can sit here all day and talk about all the different assessments.
I love 'em.
I love it.
Love it, love it, love, love it.
Matt: I don't understand anything that Alison just said.
So maybe that's the nerdiest thing about her.
Sarah: It was wonderful.
I did.
I got it.
Okay, good.
I'm like, oh yeah, I feel the same.
like, when I was taking the test, and I feel the same about the data
is like, Ooh, okay, I need this.
Matt: Well then give give Alison exactly what she needs for this.
I want to see her sparkle in the unveiling of all of these answers.
Sarah: So I don't wanna be too long, but I wanna say that I want
to put forth a little bit of my feelings about standardized tests.
I was a teacher for 10 years and part of the reason that
I was like, I cannot do this
Alison: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: For kids with special needs.
Yeah.
I cannot do this, right, is because standardized tests are the only
measure that they do of growth.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
. Sarah: And you're like, this kid, executive functioning wise, has grown.
incredible amounts.
It does not show on this particular standardized test.
And a standardized test, like any, informal or formal assessment is
just literally one pop of time.
What is your holistic being
Matt: Right.
Sarah: Functioning at that moment?
So you can't take it as an absolute, again, the fluid, the flow, the fluid.
We're not, we're not ever static.
That's how I know we're in the Matrix.
None of this real.
Matt: I'll also say it's kind of like writing a song or, setting up
a session in, in the game where it's like that moment of time and people
say, oh, you wrote that song about me.
No, I didn't.
I wrote the song about a moment.
Sarah: This is all, everything's connected.
And what I wanna say is that besides the ones that you're overdeveloped in, so
you both have above average subscores that it's a huge celebration because
A, all of your scores, even the lower ones, are within the average range.
So none of your I know.
There there it is.
And I should have had like, more aplomb, these like you're average.
But here is the other thing I, and I have to read this.
Since you have both been officially diagnosed with ADHD and have been working
both unconsciously and consciously for your entire lives to build the
strategies to aid you in functioning, I would say that both of your outcomes are
like, incredibly positive in general.
Oh, you've worked hard to be functioning within the average for your gender and age
range, and that alone is to be celebrated.
So if we,
Matt: Wow.
Sarah: Didn't talk about the rest of this at all.
Didn't dive in.
It's just a huge celebration period.
we have to celebrate this y'all
And we're done.
End of episode.
your, you're average.
Matt: That's so informative.
Thank you.
Great.
Sarah: Which I hope is good to hear because again,
Matt: it is
Sarah: I like, felt the same
about my test scores.
Alison: One, one of the, um, the topics that I, I need to research
more on, and, uh, understand better is this, the rejection
sensitive dysphoria aspect of ADHD.
I was feeling it hard taking the test, you know, I'm like, I'm, I'm dumb.
Like this is the point where Sarah's like, it's so bad.
I don't even wanna tell you about it.
And Matt's like, I can't be your friend anymore, uh, from a dumb
standardized test, you know, ,like, that's where my brain.
And, and where I've grown is understanding my brain's gonna have
the thoughts that it wants to have.
I can't stop those, but it's how I choose to respond and say, you know
what, actually, so hearing I'm completely average is best news ever cuz I
Sarah: And you're not completely average.
and I didn't hit that hard enough.
We like celebrated the average.
But you both have scores that are in the above average range.
because there's 12 sub tests, I decided to break it down like this, y'all.
I picked the top three of each of yours?
And then I picked the bottom three and I aggregated the data, which is great
because y'all have many similarities and of, of course, differences.
But I was like, let's focus on the similarities for talking about strengths
and how to build up the, the lowest area.
Literally for all of us All three of us scored, scored the
lowest on the same subsection.
Matt: Really?
Wow.
Sarah: And y'all scored the exact same score.
. Matt: Wow.
Weird
Sarah: But I don't wanna start with low because that's the other thing is Sure.
A lot of times, uh, standardized tests are like, you're fine.
You're fine.
Except for this, you're really bad at this.
Matt: Yeah.
Sarah: And it's like, no, the first, we have to spend a lot of
attention on what is above average.
Because your strengths are what you use to build up the areas
where you, those are the wins.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
So, you have to think of this test as your character generation.
Like rolling dice for your character's attributes.
Okay.
I was like, oh, this, is great.
Okay.
And you're born with those.
So it really is like rolling.
You're like, you don't have a choice.
you roll the die and that's what your your attribute is.
But your strategies are like your magic ring or sword that give you the plus.
So, and a magic ring or sword that would work for one particular
character might not work for another.
And that's the same with strategies.
Matt: Yes.
Sarah: Is we, we can share strategies and it's like, that's great.
Let me try it.
Well, that one doesn't really work for me.
It's me looking.
Matt: Sometimes you have to attune.
Sarah: Yes.
Attune.
Yes.
Okay.
I'm a nerd.
Okay.
Alison: I love it.
Sarah: Okay.
So I'm gonna start with, uh, Alison and your top three scores.
. your verbal reasoning is as good as, or better than 86% of the
population this was normed on.
That's huge.
It's really, really high.
Alison: A, and this was the only one that I was like, when I
Sarah: This is, this
Alison: I got this one.
I, I knew what this one was measuring, and that I nailed it.
Sarah: it speaks to your, again, self-awareness of your
strengths is so, is so important.
Alison it's what's helping All the growth and inner work that you're doing.
The grammatical reasoning subtest.
I'm gonna explain it real quick when y'all were taking it.
This is the test that had a circle and a square, and you had to put true or false.
And it would say this, the circle is smaller than the square.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: And you had to put true or false.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: And so it shows that you are incredibly good at the ability to quickly
understand and make valid conclusions about concepts expressed in words.
So, Alison that was your top toppest one.
The next one.
is kind of this one of all of the subtests, cuz there are 12.
And it's so, it's so strange when you're like, wow, This is one of the best ones.
this is great.
But I knew, this is the other part, I was like, oh yeah, I
can tell this about Alison.
She comes into the podcast and is like, we're doing this.
This is now part of how we're building this This is built, and it's this way.
And you're, you're building a structure, right?
You're building a routine.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
, Sarah: Which is beautiful and so good.
Deductive reasoning, you're in the 72nd percentile, deductive reasoning is logic.
You're really good at logic.
The next one is working memory, and that was the 63rd percentile.
You're very good at holding.
stuff in your short term memory to be able to apply it to your deductive reasoning.
And you're probably using your verbal reasoning to strengthen all of that.
So those are your top three.
The lowest three, which I will reiterate are still within the average.
So it's like nothing to be like, oh, the lowest three are
visual, spatial, working memory.
And that is a measure of the ability to remember information
about objects in space.
This relates directly to the example you were giving about your body not being a
thing when you're working in your brain.
And Matt, I'm gonna jump
the boundary I've made and be like, Matt, yours is also the
lowest, it's the same as hers.
Exactly.
And you, I know you've talked about like bumping into stuff
and, and feeling clumsy.
And that is directly related to this area, and it's the lowest one.
Meaning that y'all have already to be in the average.
You all already do work to function within the average of this range, but it is low.
And knowing that, I'm gonna tell you that's also my lowest area.
Alison: Yay.
Sarah: I started to look at, uh, the other test that I've given and
be like, is this typically a like really low area for people with ADHD?
And it's true.
It is.
Matt: Wow.
Sarah: Matt, your top three scores first was working memory, 83rd percentile.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: So you can, you have that information and can
use it like adept quickly.
Wonderful.
Matt: Interesting.
Working.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Sarah: Your verbal reasoning.
82nd percentile.
So very high, like in, in sync with Alison
Matt: Okay.
So that, ha that obviously has nothing to do with, uh, uh, uh, stumbling
over words or I, as long as I, get to the point, then it's going to
be, the reasoning itself is sound.
Even if as it gets out of my mouth it's not clear, concise, uh, and so on.
And.
Sarah: Yeah.
Matt: Okay.
Good.
Sarah: Yes.
Everything that you just said,
Matt: Everything I just barely said.
Sarah: Your third area is response inhibition.
And that is the ability to put to the side things that aren't relevant to
the task that you are focusing on.
Matt: Whoa.
Alison: One of the things that Matt is great at is knowing that he's not
good at that and like, and stopping it.
So I will try, I will try to do the work that I'm doing and
listen to you and fail at both.
Matt will just block me out and be like, I I'm not listening to you right now.
I, I'm only,
Matt: That's very new.
Sarah: You have, you can see the outcome of your work.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: Right there.
Yeah.
And it's like really gratifying to be I'm bad at this, but look, I'm,
I'm like literally using strategies.
Matt: Wow.
Sarah: So Let me pause and be like, , how do you, how do you feel?
What's your reactions?
Matt: Well, I was wondering if, Well, just like, just because
this is the intersection of ADHD
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
, Matt: and you know, Dungeons & Dragons.
Mm-hmm.
So the, the two, I'll just, we'll just go the two highest for me.
Working memory and verbal reasoning.
There's three that kind of pop out.
There's, there's a Charisma score, an Intelligence score, and a Wisdom score.
Now, those are very super broad.
Would you say, Alison, you could probably have the, the working memory
attribute, but I wonder if, if one of them might be considered Charisma.
Oh.
Or would you say no?
Or would you say more Wisdom and more Intelligence and Wisdom is more,
Alison: Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad is the way that
I was trained to do these scores.
Matt: Say, say that.
one more time.
Alison: intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.
Sarah: Amen.
Unless you know it might
Alison: So intelligence is more like learned book.
Smart wisdom is more common sense.
Uh, yeah, exactly.
I I would put verbal reasonings straight into Charisma though
because of your, because charisma is where persuasion lives.
It's where intimidation lives, it, all of those different things where you
can use your verbal reasoning to both get yourself into pickles and back
out of them, which I think Matt and
Sarah: Yes.
And socially, it makes you very socially, adept no matter how you're
feeling about social experiences.
Mm-hmm.
It makes you it makes you adept at them.
Alison: It's it's masking.
Matt: It's masking.
Alison: Even if we're having shitty days, like other people will
have no idea because we've gotten so good at reading the room and
adapting ourselves to it, instead of expecting people to adapt to us.
Matt: So working memory would then be, that would be closer
to intelligence, right?
Cause that's not as emotional.
Sarah: And they're all connected, like working memory.
Matt: That's why it's Not a one to one
Sarah: With deductive reasoning, because you need all those pieces to make
logical choices about planning and into the way you're going to move forward.
Matt: Interesting.
And then another high one for you.
AK was, was it?
Sarah: Working memory.
That's the thing.
Oh, that, that was the other thing.
Working memory.
Deductive reasoning Were your high ones.
Matt: High charisma, high intelligence.
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
. Matt: What is that?
Warlock.
What would they
Sarah: Cleric?
No, clerics aren't very Charismatic.
Is that true?
They yeah.
Matt: They don't need to be.
Sarah: But they're high intelligence
Matt: They are high intelligence.
They need, they need a lot of Wisdom.
Sarah: do
Alison: honestly.
Paladin.
Matt: Paladin?
Sure.
Alison: Paladin could go high Wisdom, high Intelligence, but
you could absolutely do a build of high Charisma, high Intelligence.
Matt: Paladin.
Alison: And, and that's the other thing too, is that high Charisma
doesn't have to mean likable.
Matt: And and that is the class that I've, I think that you would be in real life.
Paladin.
There's just something, there's something about how, how passionate you
get about, things, and that to me is what, that to me is what paladins are.
Sarah: Passionate.
Matt: Passionate, certainly the charismatic part.
Okay.
I like
Alison: The, the ultimate fan girl.
Matt: Yes.
Yeah, exactly.
Tell me a little more about visio spatial processing again.
Sarah: Oh goodness.
And this is where I was like, okay, I need to have good, notes on this
visual spatial working memory.
Okay, so it means you're a strong, maybe visual learner.
Okay.
But not great at, The, processing means that, okay.
I'm I'm trying to put it in the most real example as possible.
So if you have a, a mess in front of you
Matt: Uhhuh.
Sarah: You, you realize it's a mess and you could have a plan for fixing it.
Mm-hmm.
But the working memory part makes that challenging.
So, you feel strong.
You realize there's doom piles, okay.
You could you have strategies for that?
Your working memory is, there's a doom pile.
I gotta do this.
And the doom pile sits.
Matt: Oh my God.
Sarah: So I, I, said this for all for all of us, since this is our lowest
score of the visual spatial memory is this can be reasons for your mess.
Your doom piles physical organization of items and clumsiness.
Matt: Wow.
Alison: That
Sarah: Tracks I know.
Alison: And it's why like, I've had many conversations with my more
neurotypical friends about my mess.
You know, cause they, they don't understand.
They're Like, just, just clean it just, and like, I don't, I need
somebody both to pair with me.
Like I need somebody physically in my space.
And in some ways I need somebody to show me because I'm such
a visual learner, right?
I need you to show me, cuz I don't know I don't know how to do this.
But I also think about this in the application of why I have taught myself
that I am bad at art all these years.
Cuz I see it in my brain and I have no, there's, I've always
said there is a connection missing from my brain to my hand.
So I can see the thing that I wanna create and what comes out is not good.
I can't draw a stick figure sometimes.
And that's,
Sarah: That's one of the, it it is, it's directly I, cuz I was like
visual spatial, working memory is what we all want to improve in.
So I, I went and found a bunch of strategies and one of them is
to take up art, start painting, start drawing, start practicing.
That's the thing is, and it's, it just is logical.
This will go to your deductive reasoning, Alison, is that your brain is a muscle and
if you want to improve it, you have to.
Matt: Work out.
Sarah: Consciously practice that.
You can't just be like, oh, I'm putting a lot of attention on
it, but not doing the thing.
you have to do the thing to grow the muscle.
Alison: Yeah.
We have talked at length about how if I am not instantly good at something,
I want nothing to do with it.
And, and art is the prime example of this where I, I don't see instant lift.
Sarah: Your needle doesn't move fast enough and you're like, this is worthless.
I need to, I need to focus on something where I can move that
needle, but those are the spaces you
Alison: And, apparently, I could be off base on this, but I, I remember somebody
in one of our earliest episodes leaving a comment saying, this is more prevalent
in women, like the, the pressure to get it right, to be good, to be perfect.
And so when we are not, I don't know if that's the rejection sensitive
dysphoria kicking in or what it is we're, we are as women more apt to
leave it behind and go back to something that we do feel more adept with.
Sarah: Absolutely.
Matt: Wow.
Sarah: It's wild.
Matt: I love, I love this list that you have nine ways to improve
visual, spatial working memory.
Sarah: And see, I'm not a genius.
I just know how to look up the wonderful research that people have been doing
on this and like my past experiences and put them together and be like this.
This is what we do.
Lifehack.org.
Okay.
Number one, move your body.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: Take a dance class.
Take a workout class.
Martial arts.
So take up painting or drawing.
Matt: Okay.
Sarah: Alison, do it.
Alison: I don't know if I told anybody about this, but my mom, but I had this
idea kind of around Christmas time.
I need to, I need to act upon it how ADHD of me, I want to get a
typewriter, an old typewriter, and I want to create little micro poetry
Matt: Yes,
Alison: And then take pictures of that and like put
Sarah: Yes.
Alison: Like that's what I want to, to create.
So how on brand of me did I want to create art, but with words.
Sarah: But it's, it's exactly what, what all of us should do is figure
out those strong parts and use them to pull up the parts that we want to grow.
Mm-hmm.
And that's exactly what you just said.
So mixed media are even like cutting them out, putting 'em,
taking a picture, all of it.
Like even the graphic design portion of it.
Yeah.
Alison: And I have to give, Evan credit where credit is due.
Wanting to push on that as Evan is a vastly talented artist, graphic designer.
So I went to him a few weeks ago and said, okay, I've kind
of got some downtime work wise.
I'd like to work on graphic design.
And so he has every morning reminded me to do my studies, which is
huge cuz I need that consistency.
And he has been my rock for it.
And you know, then, you know, like waits until I tell him I'm done with my day's
lessons, asks me what questions I have.
He's asked me to teach him things knowing that like my teaching
will reinforce my learning.
Like so find you and Evan Bivins, everybody who is going to support you and
pair with you in this very specific way.
I'm making Sarah
Sarah: It's beautiful.
beautiful?
Alison: are
Sarah: I love it.
Yes.
You want that for everybody Yeah.
You want everybody to set up little communities for yourself.
Where you have you both give that and do you have It from them?
And it's beautiful.
It is making me cry.
Don't look at me.
Matt: Okay.
I won't look at you.
what else you got Get I don't like the next one.
Sarah: I know.
Matt: I don't like the next one.
Sarah: Of course, you don't like it because it pushes against that area
that you don't feel comfortable with.
Ditch your gps and use a map.
Yeah.
Alison: Absolutely.
Sarah: Yeah.
Both of you're like, no f no , but.
I mean, and I'm not saying that's very like black and white binary
of like the get rid of it, but like maybe once in a while.
Matt: No, you're right.
Sarah: I'm gonna get a map of this museum I've never been to
and go try to follow Mm-hmm.
. Okay.
Little by like, that's how you think of attacking these things
is like, I don't wanna do that.
Yeah.
But like, what part of it can you do to grow that you feel comfortable with?
The next one y'all are gonna like, yeah, it's it's play video games,
Tetris being like the, example that they gave of the visual spatial planning
of this was gonna fall down here.
And go here.
But, uh, games in general where you have a map and a board and
different characters moving around.
Yes.
D&D is, is helpful for growing this area.
Matt: Yeah.
Alison: Think so that's, and that's the genesis.
Woo.
Sarah: So I can tell you, you all are genius because you started this
podcast and that it's, it's right.
You're correct.
Do it.
Everybody play D&D right now.
Another one is 3D puzzles or Legos or models.
Matt: Okay.
Sarah: Are helpful for building that area, working with brain teasers.
Specifically ones involving patterns like Sudoku Build stuff like IKEA
furniture or like again with Legos, if you're not gonna get into buying
furniture and filling your house with it.
Cause you built
Matt: Yes.
That is
Sarah: Read books with lots of action and perhaps maps that you have to think
about the characters moving around in.
So think, think Lord of the Rings.
Like, oh, where is where is this Where are they traveling to?
Okay.
Least like, and in conjunction with that, they said watching a movie that has a lot
of action like Star Wars and then going over where the different scenes went to.
Mm-hmm.
are helpful.
Okay.
Yeah.
And learn and practice an instrument.
Matt: That one is very interesting to me.
Learn and practice an instrument.
Was i, does that mean that I was inherently drawn to trying to improve my
visual spatial by learning instruments?
Sarah: Well, the wonderful thing is music is inspiring and then that's the thing
is like, I don't know, I was drawn to theater, I was dyslexic and the theater
helped me become a better reader.
Matt: Interesting.
Sarah: Like build my language.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
. Sarah: And I don't, there's something also to, to be said about
this that I was gonna wait till later, but I'll say it right now.
Magic.
Your brain is freaking magic.
There are things that we don't understand
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: That are just like, how could two of us with looking at the areas
where we struggle the most and then just naturally have chosen things
Matt: mm-hmm.
Sarah: that are gonna build that up.
Alison: Matt, you've, written a blog about that in the far and distant past.
Like not only did you play instruments, but it's why you
were a multi-instrumentalist.
It was your ADHD serving you to kind of pick things up and
it at least become proficient.
How very Bard
Matt: Right?
Yeah.
Alison: It's the, jack of all trades, master of none
Matt: Yes, Yes.
That's interesting.
So I am not a master of any one of the instruments.
There is always a point where I, not for boredom, simply
because I wanted more and more.
I feel like maybe what this is really saying is learn
and practice one instrument.
Sarah: Pick one that really inspires and interests that's
the other thing is motivation.
When you, when you have ADHD and you can get into the hyperfocus, you can
really work on building the area.
But the funny thing is, Matt, I was like, oh, of course Matt does that already.
So this is so interesting because we're adults and we took this test,
and it could be that all of us started like in the way low below average.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: And the work we have been doing.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
All the things here, like, reading the books, playing D&D,
playing the instruments have gotten us to just within average.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: All that work we've been doing has brought us up from really struggling
with it to like being able to function.
Matt: Yeah.
Sarah: And you want to, all of us, everybody wants to, be like above average.
Let's get up there.
But like, you have to celebrate when you start, like in, the mud and you like
pull yourself up to like sitting in a chair and you're like, but I wanna run.
And you're like, okay, but you were in the mud.
Okay.
Matt: Right.
Alison: At ADHd20, we celebrate mediocrity.
Sarah: Hard.
Celebrate hard.
Celebrate it.
Hard.
And reach goals.
Like, we've all got so many goals.
it's the process of sitting with, somebody Yeah.
And really listening And saying, okay, this is where you are.
this doesn't work for you.
You love this.
Let's find something together.
Matt: Right.
Sarah: That is sustainable and works for you gets that needle
moving, which makes you feel good.
It empowers you.
You're like, I can I can do this.
Matt: I want everyone that ever listens to this podcast, this episode to
take, to be able to take this test.
I really do.
I do, too.
And I know that they can't, but however, Sarah, if they wanted to work with you, as
a person and to, to glean your knowledge and delight and joy and excitement and,
and, experience, How, would they get in touch with you to start that relationship.
Sarah: Oh my gosh, that's so nice of you.
Cuz I am trying to build that because I have ADHD, I have been
focusing on my jewelry business.
Cosmic Octopus Creations.
Ooh.
and just was, have been building and focusing a lot on that.
But now I'm shifting to the coaching, mentoring, executive functioning and
I probably will eventually change this, but you can find me online.
Sarah Mobley, I'm all over those things.
Okay.
And then My email, which I'll give out is AlbinaTritina at gmail.com.
It's spelled crazy.
So A-L-B-I-N-A-T-R-I-T-I-N-A.
And if you're like, what the hell is that?
Matt: What the hell is that?
Sarah: It is my great-great grandmother's name.
Mm-hmm.
. And she's buried in the cemetery up the street.
Matt: That's right.
That's right.
From your Chicago kin, right?
Sarah: Didn't know.
Bought a house close to my great-great grandmother's grave.
So many things similarly with y'all, I am all about figuring
out this thing together.
Yeah.
In, in accordance and community with others and, and saying,
you're great the way you are.
Whatever you wanna do.
Yeah.
You're gonna be great at that too.
Yeah,
Matt: It's true.
She is the best at that.
There's No one I know, but that can, that, that is better at
that than you not one person.
Um, and, And it has been such an amazing, amazing gift that
you came on this podcast.
Sarah: I, I'm so thankful for the moment I heard it.
I was like, and, and I do want you all.
Since I've come and talked to you about your, all of these, your brain.
Yeah.
Maybe you can play D&D with me.
Matt: Just play more.
Play more, play
Alison: Yes.
I am so happy, privileged, and grateful to have finally gotten
to meet my new best friend.
Uh, that's.
Sarah: Yeah.
I'm like, oh my God, I'm so excited.
Matt: Y'all are gonna be peas in a pod.
Sarah: Pod.
Alison: We're gonna be out here like some blue hair and old
ladies in our loud colors with our big glasses, just embracing
every single quirk and forgetting
Sarah: Partying on the street and being like, love your life people.
Yeah!
Alison: Yes.
Yep.
Well, Sarah, we love you and your energy and everything that you bring, and will
continue to bring, thank you so much for, you know, shedding your sparkle,
Sarah: Thank you so much.
So I love you.
I love your community on Discord.
I they just think, I think everybody that you are in your
beautiful dancing tornadoes.
Life drawing in magnetizing to yourselves.
and they're dancing with you.
And I mean, me too and the, tornado.
Beautiful.
Matt: The dancing tornado sounds like a high school dance core team.
I love it.
Sarah: I think we should start one.
Matt: I think we're gonna start one
Sarah: Since dance is one,
Matt: Because I need to, yeah.
Okay.
Great.
Alison: If you're not a dancing tornado, what are you even doing with your life?
Matt: Don't know.
Dunno.
Awe and Wonder Woman!