Well, hi, everyone. I'm Daniel Williams, senior editor at MGMA, host of the MGMA Podcast Network. And we have a special podcast today. This is part of our, MGMA Insights Podcast, And this is being recorded in March. And March is Women's History Month.

And today, we're highlighting the Women Healthcare Leaders Resource Group. It is one of our most connected and most active member communities in MGMA. And today we have the three facilitators, the people who keep that engine running in that resource group. So I'm going to share with you each of their names. We've got Cheryl Mongillo, Dolores McNair, and Paola Terci today.

They're going to be talking about the Women's Resource Group and what it's like to be a woman in healthcare today. So let's go ahead and get started. We've got so much ground we want to cover today. So I'm going to start with each one of you, and I would love to hear just a snippet. I've talked to each of you offline.

Some of you I'm in the MGMA Book Club with, others I keep bumping into at MGMA face to face events. So Cheryl, you're the one that I don't know as well as our other two guests. So I would love to hear just a little bit about what it is about healthcare that you're connected to and got you started here, and what motivates you to serve as a facilitator in this resource group.

Well thanks, Daniel. So I am an administrator with private practices, and my passion is family practice, and the biggest passion is independent family practices because I feel like they are just being squeezed out, and as I've been working through and managing with these practices, I find that it's hard to find good leadership to help the physicians move forward. As changing times, as rules change, regulations change, we've moved from the part of a manager just needing to check somebody in saying hi and sending a bill off, to needing to know what population health is, what care management is, and all of those pieces, So my passion is to train that next level so we can continue to be independent practices and we can continue to provide care that patients don't get anywhere else.

Alright, Thank you so much and so glad to get to talk with you here. So thank you so much, Cheryl. Dolores, we are old buddies. We have been hanging out in the MGMA Book Club for I think two years now, maybe three. I'm kind of losing track.

We talk a lot in other areas, advisory board for human resources group. We connect a lot. And now I am so grateful to have you on the MGMA Podcast as well. But for our listeners who haven't interacted with you in either of those places, just share a little bit of that background of yours as well.

Well, Danielle, you said it. We interact in a lot of places and that's what I love about being a co facilitator with the Women's Healthcare Leaders Resource Group. We get to interact and we do it virtually, but we also do it in person each year, whether it's at one, two, three, a variety of conferences and events, get to meet the ladies in person. For those that we can't, we get an opportunity to share with them our career path, share with them our lessons learned, ask questions. And for me, I was clinical first before I went into management and then administration.

And so as I've met with many of the women in a variety of venues and avenues of communication, I find I can empathize with the nurses because I've been clinical, but I can empathize with the administrators and the business managers because I've managed physician contracts, compensation, overall business financial planning, strategic planning. And all of that happened because I was able to get involved in MGMA, get connected to women like my co facilitators here, and meet people like you as well. And all of that just kept my passion fueled to serve people, to serve other women, to serve the community and the world at large as best I can.

That is wonderful. Now Paola, you are our third facilitator here and you and I bumped into each other at the conference in Phoenix just a couple of weeks ago. That was the impetus for this podcast. We just connected, we knew each other from other events, but we just started chatting. And then all of a sudden, wheels started turning.

We went, wait a minute, Women's Resource Group, Women's History Month, let's get this thing going. And in like eight days, we're recording right now and this thing is going to be published. And so we are so excited about that. Tell us a little bit about yourself, Paola.

Yes, Daniel. So number one, I'm so glad that I ran into you at the conference because that allows us to create a space in which we share with others how great this resource group is for the community, especially the healthcare women leadership community. So I'm glad that that whole thing really played out this quickly. But like you mentioned, I've been in the circles of MGMA for a while, have always been in the rev cycle side of the house, in the finance side of the house, from individual contributor all the way to leadership and an executive now. It's one of those things that as I progress through my career, the higher you go, you feel more lonely as you go through that process.

A couple of years ago, I joined an organization called CHIEF, which was for executive women to get together, to connect, to learn from each other. And that experience really create a framework for me and an intention to do something a little bit closer to home, which was in healthcare, which was with MGMA, and provide a space for other leaders to connect, to know that they are not alone in this journey, that they can reach out to other individuals that are facing very similar challenges and actually thrive together and elevate each other. So got that's how into this facilitator role and I am excited to have gone through this path with Dolores and Cheryl because we all bring different things to the table complement each other. So it's been quite an experience, one that I'm honored to be a part of.

Yeah. Paola, I am so grateful you brought kind of the context of what our resource groups are, because some of our listeners might be going, MGMA has resource groups? What are they? So there are quite a few and the Women's Leaders Resource Group is just one of those. In the episode show notes, everyone, I will put direct links to those so you may find a resource group that you connect to, that you really want to be a part of.

Because there's some great ones. And it exactly speaks to what Paola was talking about in that it can be a lonely world out there when you kind of move up in the ranks, but suddenly you don't have a peer anymore or you don't have somebody you can lean on. And that was really the impetus for these resource groups, so we could really get people to connect to other people that they feel that they have some similarities to, that they have a connection to in the industry, but they may be across the country. So we're super excited about that. Let's move on.

We have so much to cover here, y'all. So Cheryl, I want to start with you. You've worked across diverse healthcare environments in looking at your bio and your background. So talk about some themes, talk about some challenges you're hearing most often from women who participate in these sessions. What are you hearing?

So one of the biggest things that I'm hearing is the challenge of balancing work, home, life, and all of the other pieces, and as women, I think that we need to realize that we don't need to do it all, but somehow we are brought up and bred that it must all happen, and I think we are caregivers, we're nurturers, and we need to take stock in the fact that we're humans, and that we need to weigh all of that out, and as I've traveled through my different career paths here, I keep seeing this common theme of I have to make a choice. I can't do both, and I think that's really what this group kind of helps us support is that you can do it all, but in moderation. It's almost like dieting. You can never have ice cream, but that's not true. You can have a little bit of ice cream, you just can't eat it for three meals a day, so I think that if we handled our careers and our home life in more of a way of a balancing act as opposed to an all or nothing act, I think we would be much better, and that seems to be our demise.

One thing that I've noticed is that we're lacking mentors. For some reason, we are lacking, other than my colleagues here who do a fabulous job, is that we need those senior people to help the younger people realize that by not doing it all doesn't mean you're not doing anything, and somehow it's okay to set boundaries, and it's okay to do that balancing act, and I'm hoping with the leadership group that we can pair people up and partner people and help them get through this navigational challenge.

Yeah, I love that. Thank you so much. And mentorship is a focus of ours this month at MGMA. Our member exclusive webinar this month is on succession planning. And when you are building out a succession plan, you better have a mentor there that can help those next people who are going to be in the lead roles be prepared for that.

So I'm so glad you opened that door, Cheryl. I want to turn to Dolores next. Dolores, you talked about nurses earlier. I know that's very close to your heart. You have been on the clinical side, the administrative side.

Having been able to see both sides of a healthcare practice, how has that helped inform you in helping guide, lead other women who are part of the resource group, other people that you can mentor out there?

Well you know mentorship is very, very dear to my heart because I had a great mentor and without that mentor I may have been delayed in learning about MGMA. And so for me the clinical side, when I look at what nurses have had to face politically, what they've had to fight for and this is whether they were male or female, but especially women, because we know historically for a long time, women were the only nurses for a long, long time. I've seen them on the front line. I've been standing by the bedside sometimes with them. I've seen what they've done clinically, but then I've seen the walls that they've hit and the ceilings that have tapped them when they want to go into the managerial, into the administrative, into the business side of things.

I've also been on the administrative side, not only with a health system that was more clinically and population health management organized and focused, but also academic medicine. And with that, I get to help women and help myself. When we need to look at black and white numbers on paper, when we're looking at operations, we're looking at facilities, we're looking at how do we take all of what we know clinical and justify the means for why we need more space, why we need a radio protective wall, why we need certain shields, why we have to meet a whole different range of compliance demand that we might not have thought of just thinking of health care from the traditional clinical side in, let's say, our health system. So with all of those exposures and more than ten plus years in each, so greater than twenty plus years in health care, When I come to the table, I'm still learning. I'm still learning from everyone.

But I can bring a perspective and hopefully some words that lets that woman know, I see you, I hear you, in many instances, I feel you, and I'll hold your hand. I'll give you a shove. I'll give you a lift up. And I'm not afraid to sometimes say, as a mentor, maybe as Cheryl was saying, you need to not be on every woman and simply be the woman you're called to be today. And so that's how I see all of those pieces coming together for me.

I really agree with Cheryl. And Paola helped me as well with this one. We don't have to be Every Woman. We just have to be the woman we need to be today in this moment.

Wow, that is so beautifully said. Thank you for that Dolores. Paola, I want to turn to you again. As mentioned, we met at the financial conference recently. You've also had experience in operations, in consulting.

You've seen a lot of different sides of the healthcare world. When you're thinking about women in healthcare on that day to day side of things, what do you believe, what have you seen that they're not getting to move them up in their leadership roles perhaps that can be provided for them?

Yeah, there are two things that come to mind there, Daniel. One of the items is time and space to reflect on their journey, how they can do better, on how they can take the organization or their team to the next level, how they can take themselves to the next level. In our jobs on a day to day basis we are constantly fighting fires. What came in because the provider was upset or because a patient was upset or because the insurance didn't pay us or because we have an audit going with CMS. There is a variety of challenges that come our way on a daily basis.

Because of that, we get consumed on troubleshooting and don't take the time and the space to reflect on why did this happen, how did it happen, how can it be better, what processes need to be implemented. It becomes kind of like a vicious cycle that gets very hard to get out of and it's a very common lifestyle or scenario that I have seen that happens across leaders specifically in healthcare. Finding the space to reflect, to speak openly to yourself, and to be able to plan ahead is something that has to be intentional and not everybody gets to do it, but it's very, very important and it's being missed today as a gap because it doesn't happen on the day to day activities. The second part I would say that is often missing is getting a trusted network of advisors outside of your organization, kind of like relating to this resource group, right? But you have a group of individuals, kind of like a board of directors that you trust, that you can turn into.

Because like Cheryl has said and Dolores have said, we cannot do it all and we don't have the answers to everything. Having a group of people that you can turn to, to ask questions that you might have that you don't have the answers to or are struggling to find the right answer for is really important for you to be able to thrive, to be able to find that balance that Cheryl was talking about. So those two components are to me what are really gaps in the day to day activities for leaders in healthcare. I'm grateful for the resource group because it definitely fits that gap, but it has to be intentional. You have to take the steps to participate, to be all of you at that time to share, to be vulnerable, right?

To accept the fact that you don't know the answer and it's okay and you can ask somebody else. So I think those are the components and the gaps that, I mean, even in the resource group, have seen across different leaders.

Yeah, I'm so glad that you brought up that term vulnerability there at the end. I want to ask Cheryl this question. Vulnerability, it's one of those buzzwords. At times has had almost a negative connotation like, Oh, this person's vulnerable. They're weak.

But we're seeing through the books of people like Brene Brown and other leadership themes that are out there that being vulnerable, being able to open up, it's not a sign of weakness. It's a sign of, Hey, we've got an open minded organization here when there is friction. When there is a challenge, someone can speak up and be thought of as, Wow, that's strong to speak up, not weak. So Cheryl, what are the ways in an organization, what are the processes or the culture that can be in place so someone does feel comfortable being vulnerable, being transparent no matter what is going on in their world?

So that's a tough one to get to. When I read over that, I like, wait a minute, how did I get this one? I think, I think the biggest thing is, is that as people, we have to recognize that we're not always going to be right. We don't always have the answers, so I think that when we stop making it personal, when we stop taking that on our shoulders and saying that because I don't know this and somebody gives me a different answer or somebody criticizes something I do, if I stop making it personal, I can grow with it, and sometimes I think that's what we miss out on. We're so busy protecting ourselves and making sure that we can hold things tight that we need to be able to say, You know what, Dolores, that was a great idea, and I feel kind of silly I didn't think of it, but I'm so glad that you did, and I think if we could start validating each other as opposed to taking those weaknesses and putting them in our back pocket to use them later is so detrimental in the long run, so I think that's really where we need to go with this, and it's not easy, and again, I'm going to go back to that mentorship and I'm going to go back to our resource group because frequently we've been coaching folks on how to not take that personally.

I mean, as Paola said, we're doing 15,000 things in this executive level, and if somebody comes and asks me something, perhaps I did snip a little bit, and I'll be happy to apologize, but we're all in our own worlds, and we need to just kind of recognize that this is work, and it's not personal. This is work, and when we can separate the two a little bit better, I think we'll be much better off.

Yeah, thank you for that. Dolores, that brings us to our next question. Let's define those meetup groups, this resource group, a little bit better by looking at what are women, when they're joining the group, when y'all have a meeting, what are some of the things they're talking about? What are they looking for? Is it community, guidance, that mentorship, something more personal?

What's going on inside of those? Let's just get an even closer look at it.

Well, you know, I would normally try to give you this beautiful, polished, professional answer, but I'm going to be human. And I'm actually going to give you a phrase that I used when I used to do a radio show. I used to start it by saying, Well, we're going to jump start the talk. We're going to talk about what you want to talk about, what you don't want to talk about, and everything in between. Go ahead, jump, start the talk.

And I actually think that's what our women's resource group does. We come as facilitators, wanting them to know that we've invested time, reflection, meditation, and thought and care into having information, resources, tools that we can share with them on topics they may have shared in a feedback survey, in an email, in our community that they want to talk about. But we want that to be a safe space where they can talk about what they need to talk about in that moment. So we talk about mentorship. We talk about work life balance.

We talk about career development. We talk about everything from whether or not they're looking at an MGMA webinar, certification, credential, or are they looking at something outside of that? And that's what's a safe space. MGMA doesn't control the resource group. Who shows up controls and runs that resource group?

Not even the facilitators. We are just facilitators. You can put your face up, your face down. You don't have to raise your hand. You can raise your hand through the technology.

You can type in the chat. You can put your links, your books, your ideas, your venting. But I mentioned this recently to someone at MGMA. We were just chatting and I said, in our hoop, what I'm seeing is people don't vent out, they vent up. One vent to say what's hurting them, what's harming them, what's touching them, but then another woman in that group, not necessarily one of the facilitators, will vent them up by saying, Hey, I know where you can go to get that answer.

Or, I face that in my local chapter, and, Hey, we're happy to connect with you in your local chapter. Our groups talk about anything and everything, personal and professional. Not the TMI, not too much information personal, but we do talk about it live in a safe space. And I think it's important to point out, Daniel, not one of our sessions are recorded. There's no note taking.

Even if there's a book someone shares, we're telling people, please clip it off the chat, because we're not going back and taking notes and names. Often, I'm actually out in the community or on LinkedIn going, hey, can somebody remind me what book was that? What article was that? So again, this is a place where the resource group is for women who are in health care. You are already a leader, but if you have any doubt, we're going to help you know you are.

If you are a leader, don't doubt, we're going to help you go further. And if you're executive and polished, we're looking for you and others are looking for you to mentor them. So that's what the group is all about. It's a resource of women in healthcare who are leading in the best way there is.

Yeah, Dolores, you brought up so many important parts of it that perhaps I should have brought up to begin with. You talked about it being a safe space. You talked about it being confidential. Those things are very accurate. They're not recorded, these resource groups.

So it's a place where people can feel very comfortable in sharing because it stays it's like Vegas. What happens in the resource group stays in the resource group. So Paola, wanted to ask you then, without breaking any kind of confidentiality or anything, staying in that safe space. But is there a theme or is there any other topic which really has resonated with you that came up in the resource group?

I think we have heard it through this interaction today. The work life balance is one of those that has resonated with me. The reason for that is because, yes, I set boundaries. I'm intentional about it. But one of the things that Dolores said on those chats was, Work life balance is a myth.

That just really exist. It's the integration, a matter of setting the boundaries, it's what you wanna do one day versus the other. It's not the fortysixty, it's not the thirtyseventy. And if you're not accomplishing that, then you are failing. There is no such a thing.

And although I was being intentional about the boundaries and I wanted to make sure that I have some space for the personal activities with my family, for myself, for taking care of myself. If he was not 70, 30, I was failing. And to me, when Dolores kind of reframe it in that context of like, it's not a balance, it's a matter of setting the boundaries so you can be successful and happy at what you do, really resonated. That to me was a clear message that, Hey, I'm not failing because it's not seventythirty or sixtyforty. I'm actually being successful because I'm setting my boundaries and today my boundaries were different than yesterday and they will be different than tomorrow, and that is okay.

That to me, I think, way that it resonated with me, I'm pretty sure it resonated with others that struggle. I mean, Cheryl brought it up earlier today in regards to the work life balance conversation coming up. So I would say that's the one that has resonated with me the most.

Okay. Thank you for sharing that. And Cheryl, I'm going to ask you the next question. I think this is an important one to touch on. This is Women's History Month.

We've seen women make a lot of breakthroughs in the workplace, whether it's in the medical field or in other fields as well. Still barriers, friction points, challenges that really quite frankly shouldn't be there. But I wanted you to talk about it. When you look through the lens of what is it like to be a woman leader in healthcare in 2026 versus what it has been like previously, just a few years ago or even decades ago?

Well I think that currently I feel that we still have some of those same barriers and those same challenges. Oftentimes women are looked to to manage it all. I mean, we aren't supposed to be able to take care of the house, take care of the children, this, that, and as we've evolved, our work has become much more involved, much more demanding, and there hasn't been a whole lot of change in that structure. I was doing some research for this and women in the C suites went from twenty nine percent in 2020 and now in 2024 they were thirty five percent. That's not a huge uptake.

Wow. However, I'm not seeing my male colleagues worrying about softball practice, baseball practice, nutritional meals, and things like that, so I think that's probably some of the barrier, and we're seeing a lot of people making choices not to advance their career because of these outlying things, so with our resource group, I'm hoping that we can help people do that. Balance doesn't mean fiftyfifty. As Paola said, balance means I can do this today, this is really important to me today, tomorrow I can do that, or you know, tomorrow I'm going to lunch with my grandson and I'm blocking my schedule, but today, I have this on my schedule, this is important, so today's not a good day, and I think we need to be empowered to do more of that. The expectation is that we would not put ourselves first, and I think that's the big piece is that women need to feel confident, they need to feel empowered to put themselves in that front line like, This is what I need.

This is what I want, and while I'm happy to accommodate you the best I can, I need to make sure that my needs are met.

From my perspective, Daniel, one of the things that I see is that sometimes the space is made, meaning the husbands or the partners or the significant others do take care of the kids or do take care of the softball games or the meal, but we still choose not to take that space for us. We now have taken that space to fill it in with something else that somebody else needs. So I think to, and probably because my husband will hear to all his furnace, he's the one that brings me breakfast and lunch, okay, so I agree,

I agree and I kind of didn't get to that part because I agree that, I guess my big thing is that we just don't take time for ourselves, that's the big piece, and we don't take risks for ourselves. We're very risk adverse, so we hold that in, and when things present themselves, we're like, Oh no, better stay in the safe zone. So I think that was the rest of my comment that I kind of missed on.

That's wonderful. I appreciate y'all weighing in there. And, you know, we are seeing a lot of gender roles shifting, so some of the traditional ones aren't what they were even a few years ago. And even the accommodation of allowing for hybrid work and remote work has allowed, in some cases, working moms to be there, be available for younger children in a way that perhaps they weren't previously. So that has been one of the great advents of this remote work and hybrid work where it's allowed that.

But as Cheryl said earlier, there are some continuing modes of work and the kind of demands that are placed on women in many cases that I think we hope continue to get removed. We've removed those barriers as well. I have a couple more questions. Dolores, I want to bring you into this part of it because it has been brought up previously in this conversation today. But it was talking about healthcare leadership and the isolating feeling that it can cause.

I wanted you to speak to that and talk about perhaps some work that you've done to navigate loneliness in the workplace and what you would offer to other people out there?

Well, it goes back to MGMA. We have so many resource groups. And I want to point out that even though Cheryl, Paula, and I co facilitate the Women Healthcare Leaders Group. There is the African American Black Resource Group. There is the Asian.

There are the Friends of Bill. There are so many other groups. And so what I've seen happening where there's loneliness at the top, and this is purely my personal opinion, so put that disclaimer there, I actually was talking to an early careerist at one of the conferences, and she was talking about being in a group where people looked like her and all women. And she felt that was where she needed to be so she wouldn't be isolated and lonely as she continued to move up. And when I asked her, what was her greatest fear as she moved up?

And she pointed out it was her interactions with males, her interaction with people from diverse backgrounds. And as she kept talking, I went, So if you're in a group that looks like you, sounds like you, talks like you, thinks like you, do like you, how are you going to become less fearful of the unknown? I think that's what I have tried to do for myself, to help myself not be lonely, not find myself doing well, but only doing well on Highway 1. But when I'm on Highway 10 And 15, I'm feeling abandoned and lost. And I really encourage people I mentor, people I coach, people who are connected to me in any way.

Avoid isolation by looking for what brings you the comfort you need in grief, And that's whether you lost a job, you made a poor decision, and the consequences aren't what you want, but you know you'll be okay. But you need that friend who gets you, who can just support you and comfort you through it. But then you need somebody who will say, now that you're over that, how are we going to not do that again? How are we never going to do that again? That was breaking a lot of the professional things I think you knew.

Then you also need that person who said, I know you've been comforted. I know you've been rebuked, but let me show you how you might could have built up some confidence by your stature. Or, I learned one day when I was in a particular boardroom meeting, if I sat in this position of the room, it helped me feel more empowered when I did want to speak up. There are so many ways that we cannot be alone, but we have to be okay with being alone. Because if not, as Cheryl and Paola have both mentioned, if you're never able to reflect or be okay taking some time for you, you won't be able to reflect on who you are wanting to become.

It's okay to be alone long enough for you to know you. It's okay to not be alone long enough to have people support you to become the best you. So that's how I look at it. The way you don't be alone, get with something that's familiar, yes, for comfort. Get with something that pushes you to grow.

It may not feel good. But then get with something, someone who has already attained very much of what you aspire to be so you don't have to do it the hard way. Some of it you can learn by visual and emotional and teaching contact. And that's not just mentorship. It can be an advisory board as well, which Paola is a big genius to explain to anyone who doesn't fully get it.

So between the three of us, we tell people, we can give you history, we can give you mentorship, we can help you develop a framework to get an advisory board and then to make a vision board for yourself.

Wow. That is such a powerful statement. So I have a last question. Dolores, I'm going to stay with you and then I want to hear from each of our guests today. As we look ahead, what do you hope participants take away from the Women Healthcare Leaders Resource Group this year?

What do y'all have on tap? What is it going to look like?

You were seen. You were heard. You thought it, you spoke it, and you did it. I want to hear not one, but more and more women say, I was seen and I know it. I was heard and I know it.

I thought I could do more and I did it. And now I'm going to do it for someone else by being that resource for another woman in healthcare.

Wow, all right. Cheryl, what about you? What would you like to say?

So, I would like participants to feel comfortable taking risks, step out of their comfort zone, knowing that there's a support system available to them, and we're here to encourage and empower, and when you feel that, spread the wealth. Empower and encourage others.

Yeah. Paola, you get the last word here.

Those are hard to follow. Those are hard to follow. Echo what Dolores and Cheryl have said, right? It's creating a space where there is a sense of connection and confidence, where there is a sense of safety that you are okay being vulnerable, okay reaching out, speaking up, that you feel supported and encouraged. And from those conversations that you're able to take nuggets, maybe one call you got one or two, the next call it was all fantastic and you got five and six, but you're able to take things from those conversations and then share it with others and elevate others as you are being elevated through this resource group.

To me, it's creating the space for others to be able to speak up and to share their experiences and learn from each other.

All right. Well Paola, Dolores, Cheryl, it has been an honor to have you all own the MGMA Podcast during Women's History Month. Thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you so much, Daniel.

Thank you.

Thank you, Daniel. Thank So

everybody, I just want to thank you all again for being here. And I want to thank all of our listeners for being part of this podcast community. And we are going to put in the episode show notes and in an article we're going to write as well. We're going to put links to all of these resource groups so you can be part of a community, so you can get mentorship, so you can share your stories and hear the stories of other MGMA members as well. So until then, thank you all for being MGMA Podcast listeners.