Travis Bader: Back in 2022, I learned about a company in Canada
called ATI Armament Technologies.
They make the Rolls Royce of rifle scopes, absolute top notch,
highest quality rifle scopes.
I was intrigued.
I called them up.
Flew on over to Nova Scotia and I met with Trevor public over and we
recorded Silvercore podcast, episode 90.
When I first landed in Nova Scotia, we went over to dinner.
It was me, Trevor, David, and being in Nova Scotia, I had to order lobster.
When I was in the factory for ATI, the owner, Andy, who is the consummate
entrepreneur, started off by.
Building and accurizing Remington 700 actions and rifles for the
Halifax police department and the Boston police department Comes over
he introduces himself Really affable individual takes Trevor aside.
They have a quick chat and he comes on back.
I said, is everything okay?
Says oh, yeah, you know Andy was just saying That lobster
that you ate last night at that restaurant, that's not lobster.
You have to get Travis back.
Come on back here.
I want to show him what real lobster is.
Fast forward a year, I'm in Nuremberg in Germany.
Ewha, it's a show.
Who do I run into?
But Trevor and David again, and end up at a restaurant with Andreas.
He's, uh, owns a company called Swiss locks and they're a distributor
for Desert Tech and ATI and, and a few other firearms related brands.
And the entire restaurant has been booked out, had an amazing evening.
Some interesting stories to share off of that one, possibly in the future.
And again, Trevor says, you gotta come over.
Andy is serious.
Come on by, we're gonna have a lobster feast.
Well, I decided to take him up on it.
My wife and I flew over to Nova Scotia.
Caught the red eye.
Didn't get any sleep through the night.
Trevor picks us up in the morning, tours us around.
We pick up his wife.
Whole day checking out the sights.
Ended up at the Bicycle Thief restaurant on the coast there.
Great restaurant.
And who happens to also be there but Andreas from Swiss Locks.
Small world.
Kind of funny how it all works out.
Ended up ordering some oysters, that tray turned into another tray, which
turned into another tray, until finally Andreas and his friend had
to take off to the airport to grab a plane back home to Switzerland.
Even though it had been well over 24 hours and I hadn't slept, I barely noticed.
The company was too great, having too good of a time.
The next day, take off up to Andy's cottage, small mouth bass fishing, a
lobster feast that you wouldn't believe the best lobster I've ever had in my life.
This was a stellar chance to spend some time with some extraordinary people, the
kind that you don't often get to meet.
ATI left me with a cutting edge sense of innovation, entrepreneurial
spirit, and the tight knit sense of family that they've nurtured.
From Nova Scotia, I flew over to Toronto.
This is where I got to go check out Antler Restaurant.
I met up with Harrison from Marathon Watches.
We had an amazing meal, duck heart yakitori, bison ribeye, maple brine
boar, seared foie gras, capped off with Antler's very own cedar gin cocktails.
Amazing evening, got a good rest, met with Michael Hunter the next
day, and we recorded this podcast.
I do say this in the podcast, but it does bear repeating here that I'm extremely
grateful for my friend, Shani from Stoger, for helping facilitate and set up the
meeting with Michael so that we could actually record this podcast for you guys.
Now, why do I bring all of these things up?
Well, for a very specific reason.
If you're unable to get yourself to Toronto to visit the world famous
Antler Restaurant, well, we're giving away the Hunter Chef Cookbook.
Hunt, fish, and forage in over 100 recipes.
Stoger, well, if you're a Silvercore Club member, you'll already know, or should
already know, you get discounts at Stoger.
Here we've got a beautiful Benelli range bag.
Perfect at the range.
Perfect in the blind.
This one is getting given away.
I can't talk about ATI without bringing up the fact that, well, here we go.
Speed, accuracy, integrity.
The SAI optic here.
1 6x24mm.
This guy is also getting given away.
And yes, I've mentioned Harrison from marathon watches.
They've been supplying allied forces with military grade, Swiss engineered watches.
It's 1941.
We've got the red Arctic maple GSAR watch with a stainless seal
strap that's also being given away.
Cap it all off.
We've got a Silvercore swag package, but you're going to want to make sure that
you subscribe to the Silvercore podcast, that you follow on social media so you
can see how you can win these items that I've just talked about for free.
If you're not a member of the Silvercore club, I highly recommend
you consider checking that out.
Without further ado, let's get on with the podcast.
If you're a hunter, a foodie, a game eat connoisseur, you'll have
undoubtedly heard of today's guest.
He shot to meteoric fame, or perhaps infamy, when he responded to protesting
vegans outside his immensely popular Antler restaurant by butchering
a deer leg in front of them.
Welcome to the Silvercore podcast, Michael Hunter.
Right on, man.
Thanks for having me.
Well, this is great.
Um, food.
Amazing.
Ate here last night, had, uh, Harrison from, uh, Marathon Watches.
He and I had a meeting here, actually sat in that table
right over there in the corner.
Oh my God.
It was so good.
Right on.
Yeah.
Um, anybody who hasn't been to this restaurant, I'd a hundred
percent recommend coming here.
It, you know, I was expecting it to be good.
I wasn't expecting it to be that good.
It was amazing.
Awesome.
Well, thank you.
I think we should start out.
By thanking Shani, Shani from Stoger who put us in touch here.
Stoger, Canada.
Thank you.
Holy crow.
Thanks, Shani.
That's amazing.
Uh, you've been working with Stoger for
Michael Hunter: a while now, haven't you?
I have.
So I, I rep, um, fronky shotguns and rifles.
Um, It's funny how, uh, um, a Franchi, I think it was an Intensity,
now they're called Affinity, uh, was my first semi auto shotgun.
I, you know, I graduated from a pump and I wanted to, you know, shoot,
shoot more, shoot more geese and ducks, uh, you know, and, and, uh,
you know, graduated to a semi auto and I just, I fell in love with it.
And I think I was 25 and, um, I still have it.
To this day, it still cycles in minus 30 when I'm goose hunting in a dry field, uh,
where some of my buddies are, you know, jamming and not cycling proper properly.
Um, and, uh, I actually write wild game recipes for the brand.
They've got a website called the fronky food academy.
That's right.
And that's sort of how that connection works.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
My, uh, My wife, actually, she's a chef.
She wrote something for Franchi there as well, a while ago.
And I think it was, uh, it was a bear recipe, but they had to change it a
little bit because I guess it's just not as politically correct to be bear.
So,
Michael Hunter: well, I think in Italy they can't, there's
really nowhere to hunt bear.
Um, so yeah, for me, I try, I try to just work with stuff that's.
That's available to everyone in Europe because it's not, it's not just for
North America, it's for Europe as well.
So, um, yeah, well, while boar is very popular, um, you know, everything,
you know, deer, the goats, some of the sheep, um, you know, small game,
all that stuff is, is, uh, prevalent over there that I don't, they
don't have the means to hunt bear.
I don't think, yeah, I think they changed it to a boar
Travis Bader: recipe,
Michael Hunter: but yeah, but it worked too.
It worked either way.
Yeah.
I think they can go to, The closest they can go, I think it was like
Siberia or something to shoot a bear.
We're somewhere in Russia.
Is that what it is?
Yeah.
There's nowhere really kind of close to home for them, but.
Travis Bader: So, um, okay.
First thing, the, the.
First point that I brought up in the intro here.
Congratulations.
That's amazing.
By the way, that was, uh, probably a point of frustration for you, but
holy crow, what, what a pivot point.
What do they call it?
An inflection point.
Yeah.
Michael Hunter: Um, yeah, well, you, you know, you mentioned frustration.
Um, you know, I was probably more on the enraged side.
Um, And that was the product of me actually having to be here that night.
You know, they were coming once a week, they had been coming for three
months and I would leave cause I knew that I was going to do something,
uh, incredibly stupid that was either going to get me, you know, arrested or
charged or just, you know, canceled.
Um, and you know, thankfully I did something that, uh, you know,
was the exact opposite of that.
Uh, but it was, that was just luck I think, cause I was really, really upset.
You know, they were taken.
Photos of my kids that I, you know, I had a public Facebook account.
Oh, I didn't know that part.
You know, my stuff was public.
So they, at that time anyway, so they had, you know, taken all, you
know, family photos and put them online on their vegan websites.
So there was death threats and you know, all kinds of stuff going around,
um, that made, made me really upset.
So, um, and I think eventually it led to some people actually getting charged,
which, you Shut down the protests, but, you know, they came once a week
for 11 months to this restaurant,
Travis Bader: 11 months,
Michael Hunter: all because
Travis Bader: you
Michael Hunter: had what a sign that said, venison is the new kid.
Travis Bader: And that's that one person
Michael Hunter: off.
And I, I don't even remember the exact year.
It might've been 2017, 2018 when this all happened.
Um, but you know, kale salads were on like every menu across the city.
So it was just, you know, and I, I didn't even come up with it.
One of our servers came up with it as sort of like a fun little
Play on our chalkboard sign.
Like, you know, you ate here last night.
We're 45 seats.
We're not a big, huge corporate place where I have one business partner.
We're a little family, you know, restaurant.
Um, and it was just like a, a laugh, you know, and, and, uh, a vegan cyclist
rode her bike by and took a picture.
Grave offense to it.
And, uh, decided they were going to try and shut us down.
And that was literally in their messaging, you know, we're going to shut this
restaurant down because they serve meat.
And it was just bizarre.
Despite the fact there's a butcher shop, like cross the
road, you know, accidentally called them out in an interview.
I said, there's a butcher shop across the street.
They had to respond to that.
Unfortunately, I, you know, I apologize.
I didn't mean to, you know, try and get them canceled or something.
Right.
But they literally have half.
Sides of beef hanging in their window.
And it's like, why are you, and they said, Oh, we're promoting the humane
meat myth that, you know, raising animals and, uh, um, you know, outdoor
environment that are treated properly is a myth that, uh, you know, cause
at the end of the day, they don't want to die and, you know, it's, it's.
The funny thing was that we actually had, you know, two vegan items on the menu.
Like they didn't do their research about us at all.
Um, like, cause we treat this like it's our home and everyone's welcome
in our home and the guests are like, you know, they're guests in our home.
And, um, you know, if you're halal or kosher or vegan, whatever it is, you
know, we, we do our best to accommodate.
And, um, you know, if someone called us and they, they wanted something halal,
uh, you know, a lot of the game farms we use, they use halal, Like they use
halal or kind of kosher practices.
Not that there's a rabbi blessing it, but, um, you know, some of the stuff
is actually available, halal or kosher.
So it's, um, it was kind of funny that they chose us because we welcome everyone.
And it, um, uh, yeah, so that's, that's kind of what happened
after my extreme frustration.
They chose the wrong person to pick a fight with, apparently.
Yeah, you know, my mom, uh, I guess raised me not to put up
with other people's, uh, uh, B.
S., uh, so to speak, so.
Did you think that, that one little act would have such a consequence?
No.
God, no.
We were meeting with some sort of restaurant, uh, potential partners for
growth and, uh, Um, we were all having dinner together while this was blowing
up on our phones and we're like, Oh my God, I hope they don't see this.
What is happening?
Um, because initially it was negative.
Um, I think it happened on a Thursday.
We were having this dinner on a Friday and it was like on the Apple news when
you kind of look at your phone, uh, it's just like on the, on the home screen.
And we were like, Oh, um, And we were getting absolutely pounded with like one
star Facebook and Google reviews from people, you know, from all over the world
that have never been here, that we're just vegan, you know, trying to cancel us.
Um, so, you know, the initial virality of the whole thing was negative.
And, uh, you know, I think it wasn't until Monday that a local, you know,
online blog magazine got ahold of it.
Um, and they put it out there, you know, then the mainstream media got it
and it flipped, you know, instantly to.
Positive for us.
People were supporting us.
Um, people loved, you know, my reaction to it, but you know, the
initial three, four days, you know, I thought, I thought we were screwed.
I thought her restaurant was canceled.
So I feel like we're
Travis Bader: moving past cancel
Michael Hunter: culture.
I don't know what you're feeling is.
I really hope so.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
I just get the sense that people are starting to wake up and say like, come on.
Yeah.
Michael Hunter: Um, You know, especially because what I, you know, I did was
within, you know, well within my rights, it was sort of my, you know, protest back
and, um, you know, someone said to me once when I was worried about it at the time,
you know, the world's run by meat eaters.
This is not, this is not bad, right?
Travis Bader: Did you go front or you just in the window Here?
Michael Hunter: In the window?
Yeah.
I didn't, I I knew that if I went outside, you know, it, it would be bad.
It would be very bad man.
With a knife?
Yeah.
Well I, one of the guys that was like, you know, putting the stuff on my kids
online was standing on the sidewalk and I knew that if I got within face to
face of this man, it was gonna be bad.
So I stayed inside.
So you ended up on Rogan's podcast 'cause of this?
Yeah.
And, uh, you know, I knew who Joe Rogan was, you know, this was,
this was when he was still in LA.
Um, I, you know, I, I didn't think I even had Spotify or these podcast
apps on my phone at that point.
Like I, I didn't even know he had a podcast, which was the funny thing.
Um, like he's a guy from news radio.
Yeah.
Well, news radio, the UFC, you know, fear factor, like I knew who he was.
Um, but I didn't know, you know, I think it was our podcast.
The one I was on was 1105, I think.
So he'd done a thousand and 100 podcasts already.
Like, you know, he wasn't like a new guy, you know, and I just, I, I hadn't,
I'd never listened to his podcast.
So I didn't, I didn't know, you know, how big he was.
Um, but yeah, you know, that was, that was, you know, incredible experience.
He's a, he's a great guy, uh, you know, a great voice for the hunting community.
And, um, It was just, you know, it was awesome to have someone like that
sort of, you know, in our corner kind of having our back a little bit, you
know, and it, uh, it was amazing.
What was that experience like?
It was really cool.
You know, my dad, uh, uh, lived in Los Angeles, south of Los
Angeles for about 30 years.
So it was really great.
I got to go visit my dad and, um, you know, went to the studio and hung out
with him for an afternoon and, um, Yeah, it was a, it was a, you know, wonderful
experience again, you know, he's, uh, he's really great at what he does.
Um, and I think that was probably the first podcast I'd ever done.
Yeah,
Travis Bader: man, that guy, I like, I don't really listen to too many podcasts.
In fact, prior to starting my own podcast, I was on one and I saw one live and, uh,
the live one was a meat eater podcast.
And at that time I'd never even heard of meat eater and my wife got me
this present of a go get to see this live, go down to Seattle and cool.
Well, I was like, I don't know who this meat eater company is.
I don't know who this Steve Rinella guy is.
And I'd almost in a podcast, like, yeah, what is this?
Thank you.
But, um, but it was pretty cool.
It was neat to get to meet the guys and girls there.
And she became friends with a few of them.
Um, was asked to be on a podcast.
Guy comes down, crack a couple of beers, hooks in his recorder.
I Well, this is kind of fun, actually.
You just get to sit here and talk.
This is amazing.
So yeah, I'm kind of like you.
I, I.
I haven't actually heard too many of Rogan's podcasts, but I did
listen to the one that you were on.
Cause of course I wanted to hear what you had to say.
And I think for the first, like the majority of it, it was basically
Joe talking and I'm like, did this guy, like, I don't know, did this
guy just like read an encyclopedia before sitting down with you?
He's pulling out dates and figures and facts about hunting and it was.
Michael Hunter: He's extremely intelligent.
Um, you know, he's got, I love the fact that he's got experts from all different
fields, you know, all walks of life, um, you know, all political spectrums,
you know, it's, uh, it's, it's really neat listening to someone that, you
know, doesn't have an agenda of his own, you know, kind of going forth.
Um, you know, the, the funny thing with, with the vegan scenario, it just
happened to kind of, he was, yeah.
He had done a lot of vegan bits on his new special.
So it was kind of, you know, just at that time when, uh, you know,
the vegan cat thing was blowing up on the internet and going viral.
And I guess he, he had a lot of vegan stuff material worked into his, uh,
his show that he was, he was currently either working on or I can't remember
if he was already touring with it or not, but, um, there was a big, Big kind
of vegan bit in his, uh, in his act.
So it, I kinda, I think it just fit perfectly into, you know, what he was
kind of thinking about and talking about and, you know, making jokes about anyway.
So, so what happened after that podcast?
Um, you know, I, he found us because it had already gone viral.
Like every single news outlet in Canada and the United States.
Uh, had, had done a piece on it.
You know, we did, we didn't know what we were doing.
Um, so we hired, we, we spoke to a person in PR, um, that had actually specialized
working for the government in crisis.
PR had just happened to be a friend of mine.
So she kind of gave us some coaching.
Um, we did one interview with a, you know, big national magnet,
the global mail, um, here.
And she's like, that's it.
Don't give any more interviews.
That's the interview.
That's the statement.
Uh, every other.
What happens is when you talk to, you know, 10 different, you know, people
or magazine outlets, whatever it is, you know, it's like telephone tag.
Your story will change a little bit.
They get more views from you.
They get so not by views.
I mean like your opinions and you don't want to like, I mean, you don't want
to You know, I wanted to be respectful.
I wanted to be educated.
I, you know, so I, I just, we kept it at one statement and it blew up
like, you know, people magazine, the Washington posts, uh, you know, Fox
news, like it would just, it blew up.
So, you know, it was already viral.
Um, the real crazy part is that it was all over the world.
People were like, I've because of cooking and traveling for events and
stuff, I've worked all over the world.
Um, Friends were sending me articles from Russia, England, France, uh,
Italy, Singapore, uh, Australia, New Zealand, Africa, like, everywhere.
It was in absolutely insane.
And you know, you see these things go viral, but when it happens
to you, it's very different.
. Um, you know, um, you know, it's, it's a blessing that it was a positive thing.
Um, but yeah, when, when people blow up and go viral, like, uh, you know,
I really feel for them sometimes.
'cause it's not something that you plan for.
It's not necessarily something that you want.
Um, you know, and I.
I want to be recognized for our positive qualities at the restaurant and whatever.
And I'm glad that it had a positive spin, but you know, I'm forever going
to be the guy that butchered a deer in front of vegans in the window, you know?
And, um, uh, yeah, so I don't, you know, there's no ill will towards vegans.
They're still welcome at the restaurant.
We still, you know, it's, um, but yeah, it's, uh, it was, it
was a crazy experience, but.
You know, being on the Rogan podcast, again, it just sort of aided to that
virality and we get so many, um, uh, travelers from the States and all over
the world that, Oh, we heard you on Rogan.
We came for dinner.
So you're still getting that.
Yeah.
It's at the time people were like driving from the States.
So someone drove from Washington.
Someone drove, I forget where people drove here.
Cause I heard us on Rogan.
It was bizarre.
Yeah.
Wow.
Really, really cool.
Well, it's good for business.
It was amazing for business.
Um, you know, our, our business doubled overnight at the time, which, uh,
created its own set of challenges.
You know, we had to hire new staff.
The staff that were here got extremely burnt out and tired and stressed.
Um, Uh, our suppliers, like we buy from little family farms and small suppliers.
So, you know, they couldn't necessarily keep up with the demand.
Um, so yeah, it had a whole slew of challenges.
We had to hire security, um, on the nights that they were here, we had to
work with the police to make sure that, you know, everyone was keeping the peace,
you know, our supporters and the vegan supporters, because they were clashing,
there were hundreds of people on the street at times, so they were clashing.
It was, um, yeah, it was tough.
It's not something that you, uh.
You plan for, it's not something you, uh, understand, um, you know,
as a business owner, you don't even know how to manage it at the time.
So, and it has that calmed down
Travis Bader: a bit now.
Michael Hunter: Totally.
Yeah.
It's, that's, it's like,
Travis Bader: So what do you have to do next to get the, uh, the line up at the
door, get the, uh, people driving from
Michael Hunter: Washington.
Yeah.
You know, I think because after that COVID happened and so all travel shut down,
business travel, you know, has extremely slowed down interest rates, the economy.
Um, you know, there's new challenges right now to face.
Um, but you know, because of all that, you know, we are so well known and, um,
you know, it definitely, definitely, it was a blessing in disguise.
How long was your business around before COVID hit?
Um, we had been here for, I think, two or three years and
you're able to survive COVID.
We were able to survive COVID.
Yeah.
And we had a, we had a really great community around us that were supportive.
We, you know, we were doing takeout stuff, meal kits, uh,
online cooking stuff with brands.
You know, we did a dinner series with Amex that was all online and
we sent Like recipe kits to people's homes and did like a cooking class.
And, um, yeah, we had a really, really great community in
the city that supported us.
So
Travis Bader: I'm from BC and in BC, we have off sales.
I've had that for quite some time, uh, where people can come in, they can buy
alcohol from a restaurant, pub, whatever.
And then, yeah.
Go home with it.
But I understand here, it's only been around for four years because of COVID.
Okay.
It was because of COVID and nothing to do with any of your input or
Michael Hunter: what?
No, not at all.
Like we, that was one of the, they changed that law almost immediately
so that restaurants could sell, you know, basically dead stock
that, you know, if you had, you had bottles of beer, you could sell it.
If you had wine unopened from your cellar, you could sell it.
Um, so they, they actually changed that law to help kind of support us.
Um, Um, so yeah, that was one of the ways that, you know, we stayed in business.
Yeah.
I
Travis Bader: read a rumor somewhere that, uh, you may have had a bit
of a hand in, uh, complaining.
No, well, yeah, we,
Michael Hunter: I actually got, I took the blame for it, but my business partner
actually wrote and sent the letter.
Um, they, they kept toying, well, I don't know if toying with us is the right word,
but, um, You know, Ontario was one of the worst provinces to be in during COVID.
They shut us down for the longest, uh, and they kept trying to reopen
and then they'd, they'd open and then it would get so bad, you
know, it would get out of control.
So they'd shut us down and it was this like open, close, open, close.
And they had said that we could open, it was springtime.
You know, we could open our patios or whatever it was.
Um, so we ordered in all this food, all this beer.
I think we opened, you know, had a keg tapped and then after the
weekend, they shut us down or it was like, you know, they opened
for two days and then shut us down.
So my business partner wrote a strongly worded email, uh, or
letter to the Ford government.
And then he also sent it to, uh, forget which newspaper, but
so the newspaper published it.
And basically my business partner sent the government, um, An
invoice for our keg or something.
It was like trivial, trivial.
Right.
But it was, uh, you know, there was some sort of comic relief behind it, but,
um, so that was published and, uh, but yeah, that didn't have anything to do
with the, the law is changing, but that was just a, Hey, you know, you told us
we could open, you know, the stuff has a shelf life, you know, now we can't
sell it, we're closed for another month.
Um, did you get paid back?
Travis Bader: No,
Michael Hunter: they ignored our email letter, whatever it was, but, uh,
yeah, that was, That was another thing that kind of got us some publicity.
Um, but we did, we did some other stuff, you know, we were, we set up a
go fund me for, um, healthcare workers.
We did a, we did, um, some meals for, uh, nurses and doctors and
things like that, that we took to the hospital and delivered.
Um, and it was again, just to get rid of our stock.
Like we had fridges full of food that, you know, we didn't want to go to waste.
Um, you know, food banks.
Um, you know, can only take certain things or so much, they don't take prepared food.
So, um, yeah, it was a really great way to, um, you know, sort of raise money
to pay for the food, but also, um, you know, feed the frontline workers that
were, uh, you know, working so hard.
Travis Bader: Now you work with a number of different
companies right now, don't you?
I think Mossy Oak is one of them.
On the hunting
Michael Hunter: side.
Yeah.
So I, you know, My love of food and, and wild food, um, you know,
inspired me to write a cookbook.
You know, I think it started 15 years ago.
Um, I had, uh, I was working at an Italian restaurant called Scarpetta at the time.
Um, the head chef there was a big, famous chef from the States and he had
just opened a restaurant in Toronto and he handed me his cookbook and, um,
you know, to me, You know, Scott was just a regular guy, you know, and I
kind of was like, if this guy can write a cookbook, I can write a cookbook.
And, um, you know, I, I grew up, um, fox hunting with hounds, but it
wasn't really for food and I didn't start hunting for food until I was 18.
Um, but I, you know, the more time I spend outside, the less time I want
to spend in the kitchen at work.
And, um, I was just obsessed with, you know, foraging and cooking.
I was even gardening and, and, uh, I was obsessed with hunting
and, um, it was new for me.
So all my friends and family, you know, it was new for them.
They wanted me to either take them or teach them or show them what, you
know, basically what I was learning.
And I just got this idea, like, I want to write a book about what I'm doing because
there's so many people interested in it.
So.
That's sort of how the book came to be.
Travis Bader: How has the book been doing for you?
Michael Hunter: Book's great.
You know, it's, um, it was, it launched during COVID, um, but it was, it was
a great time to have a product that was shelf stable that we could sell
to, you know, support ourselves, um, and, you know, really well received,
you know, by the, by the public, um, you know, I think it's approachable,
um, You know, to the home cook as well as, you know, professional chefs.
Um, you know, the recipes aren't, you know, too challenging or difficult.
And, you know, a lot of the stuff, uh, there's a little foraging guides that
some of the stuff, mushrooms and whatever you can find in the city, which is funny.
Um, um, but yeah, so that's, I think it's, uh, you know, approachable for, you know,
people that are, you know, want to learn about hunting and foraging and fishing.
Um, but it also appeals to, you know, uh, home cooks and chefs.
It's amazing
Travis Bader: what you can find
Michael Hunter: growing
Travis Bader: out of the sidewalk that you can actually eat.
Yeah, it's bizarre, right?
I'd be careful in the city, but Perhaps, yeah.
Yeah, I did a little hike around here for a few miles this morning and just
kind of establishing a baseline and, uh, looking at the little gardens
that people have, impromptu gardens, people in the little back alleys have
set up and, uh, it's pretty cool.
Michael Hunter: Yeah, it's neat.
You know, there, there's lots of, uh, Of city parks where there'll be huge
mushrooms growing on trees that are edible and, um, you know, wild herbs
growing down by the riverbanks and stuff.
It's, uh, it's pretty neat.
It's fun to, uh, you know, explore and, and see what's around that you can eat.
So
Travis Bader: How do you find navigating the, the social media
side of things, the marketing side?
Cause you're working with hunting companies, you're working with firearms
companies and, and Meta, which owns Instagram and Facebook, uh, their
AI bots and their, everyone else.
But on top of that, you're going to have all these eyes on you.
The, yeah.
Perhaps other vegans who are constantly reporting your posts.
Michael Hunter: Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm definitely feeling that right now.
You know, it never was an issue for me because I found that it's, you know,
when you talk to people about hunting from the food side of it, um, it really
piques their interest when they're not, when they're non hunters, um, you
know, people that don't hunt and aren't firearm shooters, um, You know, they
just think, Oh, we just want to kill stuff and put the head on the wall.
And it's, you know, for many hunters, it's so far from the truth.
So I, you know, I didn't have any issues with it.
Um, you know, I think now that Meta is using AI technology to flag posts, I'm
going through the ringer, um, you know, Turkey calls optics, you know, things
are getting flagged as dangerous weapons.
And it's like, these are legal tools that I'm using, uh, you know, like
sports shooting and clay shooting and all these things are Olympic sports.
Um, you know, why am I being flagged for this?
But, you know, it's at the end of the day, it's their private
company, they can do what they want.
And, you know, we all sign up and, you know, I agree to the terms and conditions.
So, you know, it's, it's frustrating at the end of the day, but.
Um, you know, there's not, there's not much we can do about it.
And I'm just, I'm exploring sort of other platforms and, and
trying to focus on the cooking.
Travis Bader: Yeah, I guess that's where the question is kind of going.
Like for me, if I'm taking a picture, it's got a firearm in it.
I'm now very conscious about, maybe it's just a part of the receiver, right?
And you can kind of see a bit of the trigger and people who know can put
it together, but hopefully AI isn't.
No,
Michael Hunter: mine's been flagged.
I had a turkey call and it's the same thing, the receiver of
a shotgun and it's got flagged.
Really?
I had a shotgun shell in a, in an open receiver, uh, that got flagged.
Like, it's just.
Travis Bader: Just crazy.
So
Michael Hunter: I've tried appealing it and it's not, I've appealed it
and overcame some stuff before, but this one's seeming to, it's sticking.
So would you just pull it down then?
I've just left it up.
It just, you know, like says my accounts not being shown to non followers.
Like it's okay.
Like, They're not going to, they're not threatening to take my account down.
So we'll see, but yeah, it's frustrating, you know, especially when I'm, I'm
trying to grow a business and, uh, I'm passionate about, you know, sharing
wild food and recipes with people.
It's, it's, uh, you know, it's frustrating, but what other avenues
are you looking at, um, I might start focusing more on kind of YouTube
and just the cooking side of things.
Um, you know, I haven't really monetized my YouTube.
I don't, uh, I haven't really focused on putting content on there.
So, um, I might start, yeah, looking at, looking at doing that.
I've, I've, I've developed a page and sort of a little COVID
project was just to get a page up.
Um, and I've just, I've got some long for a couple of long format
videos, but most of them are shorts.
Um, but yeah, I might start focusing on that.
Uh, Tik Tok is even more strict than meta.
So I know the Tik Tok is just food, but, but, you know, like if it's, it's
a private company, let's, and it's their terms and conditions, you know,
what are, what are we going to do?
Yeah, we need, uh, someone in the hunting community to start a platform.
Yeah.
And then actually take
Travis Bader: off,
Michael Hunter: you know, maybe Twitter's the answer, uh, you know, Musk and his
free speech, you know, I don't know.
Travis Bader: Interesting.
Michael Hunter: Yeah.
I'm
Travis Bader: always curious about that just because I'm in a
similar type of business other than the, uh, the cooking part of it.
Yeah.
Uh, hunting outdoors, firearms and all the rest.
And I've, I've, I think the, uh, the newsletter is a
pretty, uh, uh, valuable tool.
Okay.
That's something that I've come to learn because, um, you know, Meta can't,
can't Uh, but controls around that.
So utilizing meta to grow a newsletter list by providing free
assets or whatever it might be.
I'm terrible at monetizing things.
I tend to give it all away for free, but it's one of these things.
That's something I've been exploring.
But you just got back from a bit of a road trip too, didn't you?
Michael Hunter: I did.
Yeah.
I, uh, I drove to West Point, Mississippi, the, uh, the home of Mossy
Oak, um, where, uh, I've, I've, uh, I've got some dear friends down there.
Um, That, uh, I went and picked up a black lab puppy.
And this is your first puppy in a long time?
My first puppy in a long time.
Like, uh, I mentioned, I grew up with, uh, hounds and fox hunting dogs.
Um, fox hounds, as they're called.
But, um, and I had German shepherds growing up.
Um, you know, recently in the last decade, my mom's had a couple of lurchers, which
are like, uh, uh, greyhound crosses.
Travis Bader: Okay.
Michael Hunter: Um, but yeah, it's been a long time since I've had a puppy.
So it's a definitely a eyeopening experience.
Did you get much sleep last night?
Last night I did, the night before, no.
So, uh, last night was, uh, I think he slept from 1030 to 530.
So that was, it was great.
It's like
Travis Bader: having a newborn, isn't it?
Yeah.
I completely, so got a puppy a couple of years ago.
I was out, um, there's, um, a place I was voted into.
They've only got eight members and you either have to leave or pass away.
And unfortunately somebody passed away, but that opened a spot.
I was voted in for a hunting shack.
And, uh, with that hunting shack also comes the ability to do some Pheasant
hunting, which I'd never done before.
Yeah.
I mean, these are, these are released birds, but it was, um, it's always just
been water fowl and out in that area.
But anyways, a pheasant happened to show up, flew up in the air.
I shot the thing.
It went down with a thud, feathers everywhere.
And I look over at my buddy, like, Hey, it's my first pheasant, right?
And everyone's hooting and hollering.
And yeah.
And then I spent the next four and a half hours looking for it.
Yeah.
I couldn't find the thing and I must've, like it was a solid shot in the thing.
Yeah.
There's so many feathers.
It went straight down.
I thought for sure.
It must've had enough energy to do a runner and it's a swampy,
kind of marshy area and, and.
Anyways, I got on the phone, I called my wife up and I said, we're getting a dog.
She's like, well, I've already been researching them.
She was already on it.
We got ourselves a puppy, a small Munsterlander, Munsterlander, and I'd
never even heard of the breed before.
But yeah, it's, um, A great versatile dog, really good for upland game
and, um, it's been doing well for waterfowl as well for me.
Yeah, which is awesome.
Pretty cool.
They're supposed to have tons of energy outside and turn it off inside, which
he kind of does, but what I wasn't prepared for was the first few weeks
of basically having a newborn in the house and you're up every couple hours,
letting it out and dealing with it.
Yeah, that was, uh, Yeah, I opened it for me.
Yeah.
Michael Hunter: Yeah.
It's wild, but he's, uh, he's great.
Like I've, I've been crate training him and he doesn't go to the bathroom in
his crate and I let him out every couple hours and, uh, yeah, he slept last night
for the first time, so it was great.
Amazing.
So
Travis Bader: tell me a little bit about the food that you get in here, right?
Because people are going to say, hold on a second.
You can't have wild game in a restaurant, which is true, except
Michael Hunter: for maybe what?
Newfoundland?
Newfoundland, yeah.
Or if it's charity.
So if we're doing a charity event, we will.
Um, but, uh, yeah, so we work with all the local game farms that are in Ontario and,
uh, a farm in Alberta for their bison.
Um, so it's all game animals, but they are, uh, you know, slaughtered in a,
you know, federally inspected facility.
It goes to a processor and then we.
So we do like duck, pheasant, uh, we do lots of wild fish, uh, well, you
know, seafood and shellfish, um, uh, and then, yeah, I think we do, uh, duck,
rabbits, wild boar, venison, bison.
Um, I think right now there's wild shrimp from BC or side stripe shrimp.
Right.
Um, we'll do, you know, East coast scallops and oysters and things like that.
Um, We're doing, uh, a steelhead trout at the moment.
Um, we'll do Arctic char when that's running and salmon, springs,
halibut, you know, all that stuff.
So beautiful.
And a little bit of lobster too.
Yes.
Thank you very much for my lobster delivery.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
That was an interesting one.
I, uh, I'm Halifax was over there for the last few weeks.
I spent a week with the armament technology, fantastic company doing
some small mouth bass fishing.
First time I've ever, uh, Fish or small mouth bass, cause we don't
really get it where we're at.
Apparently there's some secret spots where people have released them, but, um, in BC.
And, uh, and all you can eat lobster was at the, uh, the
owners, we call them cabins.
You guys call them cottages, I think.
Yes.
At the owner's cottage up there.
Yeah, cool.
Yeah, that was really good.
And so anyways, I was looking for places to get lobster.
Turns out right at the airport, they got lobster right there and still pretty
fresh because their season just ended.
Yeah.
And, um, so I call them up and Yeah, not a problem.
We'll put some aside.
Like I had no clue how it worked.
I didn't realize they have hundreds of lobster right there
in a, in a tank at the airport.
Yeah.
Oh, hilarious.
Which is pretty cool.
Yeah.
And, uh, I said, well, you know, he was hoping to get what, 10 pounds
of lobster and so okay, yeah, we'll have it all ready for you.
So I go and I pick it up and, uh, get the bill.
I'm like, holy crow.
They sure hosey at the airport.
Okay.
Whatever.
Right.
And I keep going to check out with this thing and, uh, they put it on
the scale and looking at the weight and I look at the receipt and.
They give me, it was almost 23 pounds of lobster.
Oh no.
And I'm like, ah, okay, well, I guess he's getting 23 pounds of lobster.
I thought, Oh wait a minute.
I haven't even looked at the box yet.
What if he can't use 23 pounds?
What if I go back and forth?
So I'm running back over and I explained to them and okay, fair enough.
And they, they go back and get them down to about 11 pounds and they go.
And, uh, put their dry ice pack in, then of course the airport, they're like,
well, that's a, that's a check on bag.
We want to charge you an extra 70 bucks.
I'm like, oh man, can I just gate check it?
I'm like, okay, no problem.
You can gate check it, right?
Okay.
So go through security.
Security says, what are you doing with dry ice in here?
Oh, come on.
Right.
I guess they usually use frozen peas.
So, uh, I, uh, I said, well, those Ziploc bags that you have over
there, can I get a bunch of those?
And they're like, yeah, okay.
So I ran over to Tim Horton's on the other side and got him to fill a fly's.
And anyways, it all worked out.
Well, thank
Michael Hunter: you, man.
I didn't realize how much trouble it was.
Travis Bader: I wouldn't call it trouble.
It was just kind of fun.
It was a bit of an adventure.
I'd had enough time to go through and do it.
It was just a interesting dealing with each one of the individuals on there.
Oh, that's so funny.
Michael Hunter: I'm, I'm surprised that they would actually pack it with
dry ice at the airport when you're telling them you're flying with it.
Travis Bader: Well, that's it, right?
Well, I guess Because it
Michael Hunter: changes the cabin pressure, right?
Which can be like detrimental to flying.
Travis Bader: What,
Michael Hunter: what does?
The dry ice?
The dry ice, yeah.
Travis Bader: Is how it is.
Michael Hunter: Because it's a gas and it's Yeah.
So it'll change the cabin pressure, which can, you know, cause an emergency.
I
Travis Bader: figured it was because like when I was younger, we'd use dry
ice and we'd put them in bottles and
Michael Hunter: a
Travis Bader: little bit of water, cap them up and throw them and
watch them hopefully blow up.
Yeah.
Michael Hunter: Well, I guess that too, right.
It can, it can, uh, the pressure can explode and it also, it
changes the pressure in the plane.
Yeah.
It's a good point.
Travis Bader: Okay.
Michael Hunter: There's actually like, uh, stories of little hobby, Okay.
Pilots, uh, you know, flying with guys on hunting trips that, that they didn't ask.
And they're actually plane goes down.
I've, I, so I've heard they could be folklore.
I don't know, but.
Travis Bader: Oh, that'd be interesting.
That never even crossed my mind.
I'm sure the listeners will have.
Someone
Michael Hunter: will correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm sure.
Travis Bader: And let us know.
Totally.
Yeah.
That's, you know, I love it.
If you really want something to take off, put some inaccuracies in it.
Everybody will jump in.
I've heard
Michael Hunter: that people try and engagement farm by putting
spelling mistakes in their posts.
So I don't care about likes and comments that much, but
Travis Bader: yeah.
One thing I've learned is if you're going to be posting about.
Um, foraging.
There's that whole community that knows a lot more about foraging than I ever.
Yeah.
The Latin
Michael Hunter: names of everything.
I don't know them, but I know some of them.
They're ovate.
Okay.
Um, the one thing I love is when complete strangers, um, send me pictures of
mushrooms that, you know, when you're taking a picture of a mushroom and you
want it for identification, you have to get multiple angles, you know, the
soil or the The wood that it's on, you know, the gills or the absence of gills.
There's all these things you should do when photographing mushrooms to try and
get the ID, you know, on top of getting a spore print, which is one of the most
accurate ways to help identify mushrooms.
I'll get these like blurry photos of like one angle of a mushroom.
I don't know if it's in dirt or wood from a complete stranger.
And it's like, is this safe to eat?
And it's like, well, and a lot of times I'll send them back, you
know, as a complete stranger, you.
Might not want to ask this.
You know, what if I'm wrong, , like, you know, what if I mean well, but I'm wrong.
Like, you could die.
Yeah.
You know?
So Yeah.
Please don't send me mushroom ID pictures , because I'm, I'm
also not a mycologist, you know?
No, I know, I know the mushrooms that I know.
Um, but, you know, there's, there's, uh, a vast, uh, array of mushrooms
that, you know, the scientists don't even know what they are.
It's such a, a, you know, huge, uh, topic.
Um, so I always
Travis Bader: find that funny.
I see the memes and people in the mushroom forest, like, Oh, what's this?
And they take a picture atop somebody's head.
And they're like, Oh, do you know who this is?
Right.
It's like same sort of thing.
God, you got to have all these different angles.
Michael Hunter: You know who Hank Shaw is?
I do.
Yeah.
He, we actually, he did a, uh, one of his book, his book tour came through Toronto.
So we did a dinner with Hank.
Travis Bader: Beautiful.
Michael Hunter: Yeah.
Okay.
So great dude.
Travis Bader: He was the guy that got me into foraging.
Oh, cool.
Yeah.
So I went down, visited with him and went through the sheer Nevada mountain range.
And I, I had, I had zero interest in foraging.
I had zero interest in going out and picking mushrooms.
And, but the second you learn about it and you learn a little bit
about they're everywhere, they're
Michael Hunter: everywhere.
Yeah.
And you don't, you don't see them until you, someone shows you
and then you're like, then you recognize that they're everywhere.
Travis Bader: Oh yeah.
And it's like, It's like an Easter egg hunt for adults, right?
It's fantastic.
Michael Hunter: Yeah.
Travis Bader: I can also see how people can get lost when they're.
Oh yeah.
Michael Hunter: Yeah.
I would, I would be hunting.
Uh, we used to piss my friends off.
I, we'd, you know, we'd be turkey hunting and they'd be 300 yards
ahead and I'm on my hands and knees in the woods picking morels and
they're like, where is this guy?
Like, are you kidding me?
What are you doing?
And I'm like, I got a hat full of morels.
And they're like, can you eat those?
And I actually sent my friend home.
Like we found tons.
And, uh, you know, his wife wouldn't touch them.
And he was like, I don't trust those.
And anyway, that's funny.
But they got to be cooked first, right?
Yeah, they should.
Yeah.
Travis Bader: I, um, friend went out and picked a bunch of morels and she's like,
I don't know why we all got stomach aches.
I don't know what's going on.
We're eating them raw.
Yeah.
That, that might be why apparently they should be cooked first.
Michael Hunter: Yes.
Yeah.
I think all they, you know, they recommend all, all wild
mushrooms to cook them first.
But I've eaten a little bit kind of here and there raw, but yeah, you should.
If you eat a big bowl full of them raw, you're going to get a stomachache.
I think that's what they did.
They're out hunting.
They just put them in a salad or something.
Um, they're also like little bugs too.
Like I'll put them in, uh, uh, chanterelles can be too.
Put them in, uh, I think a salt water for five to 10 minutes and you'll
see all the little bugs come out.
Right.
Yep.
Travis Bader: Yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll just visually look for if they're buggy
or not, but I guess sometimes you can't
Michael Hunter: tell, yeah, they're like those tiny little fly, uh, worms.
Okay.
Uh, they're a little white guys and they'll just, even though you think
there's no mushrooms in them, they'll, if you're cooking them, it's, it's not a
big deal, but I always try and soak them for a couple of minutes in saltwater.
Travis Bader: That's disgusting.
Yeah.
Michael Hunter: Give them a rinse and a shake and you'll see.
See all the dirt and stuff at the bottom.
And then the one thing for the tip I have for, for washing wild
mushrooms, cause a lot of, you know, mushrooms will soak up the water.
Put it on a baking sheet with a kitchen towel for, you know, five, 10 minutes
or put it in your fridge on that towel.
And they'll absorb all the extra water and they'll, they'll kind of dry out.
Oh, that's a good idea.
So you should be washing them, you know, you definitely should be cooking them.
But, um, if you want to get, you know, sometimes the morels and
chanterelles, depending on the soil, they can be really sandy.
Um, and the morels is all little holes in the, uh, you know, that
kind of brain like structure.
Um, it's a good spot for sand.
Um, so if they're really sandy, I'll always wash them.
Yeah.
Cause it, nothing like worse than kind of gritty.
So you're a big time turkey
Travis Bader: hunter from what I understand.
Michael Hunter: So turkey hunting was the first animal I hunted for food.
Um, and I was, as a chef, I, you know, I was like, I've been working in
restaurants since I was 13 years old.
Um, and turkey is really the, one of the only meats in the world.
That's you know mass produced farm that everyone knows what it tastes like.
So to, to see the stark contrast between wild Turkey and farm Turkey, uh, really
just, you know, blew my socks off.
It was, um, immediately after shooting it, it's like, Oh, it's a
lot smaller than these farmed things, um, were, were really interesting.
You know, I told my friend I wanted to pluck it.
So he showed me how to pluck it.
And you know, the fat's yellow, the skin's yellow.
I was like, Oh wow.
The breast meat, um, you know, it was like, it was like pink, like pork,
you know, um, uh, the legs are dark, like almost like deer meat, you know,
it was just so visually different.
Um, and then when I cooked it.
Um, my mom, you know, we invited my friend that took me hunting for dinner and my mom
says, this doesn't even taste like Turkey.
And he said, uh, you know, no, that shit in the grocery store
doesn't taste like Turkey.
This is how Turkey is supposed to taste like.
And that was really the light bulb for me.
Um, I had just seen the documentary food Inc.
Um, so I was learning about, you know, hormones and, you know, the
foods that animals aren't even sick or consuming all these, um, uh, antibiotics
and hormones and things like that.
And I was just sort of already, like I'd started a vegetable garden.
I was, you know, trying to buy organic and it was really conscious
about where my food was coming from.
And then this turkey came to light and it was like, this is what
turkey is supposed to taste like.
Uh, and that's when I went down the hunting rabbit hole.
Travis Bader: You know, I always, growing up, I wasn't a big fan of turkey and I
wasn't a big fan of like a Thanksgiving.
Dinner, because I'd pick up as a kid, I'd pick up the vegetables with my fork.
And if they didn't fall through the tines and they probably weren't cooked
enough and, and the, uh, I mean, you cut into the Turkey, if you didn't see a big
probably it wasn't cooked enough.
I remember coming home long shift and my wife had, um.
Put in a long shift at work and, uh, but she wanted to make a Thanksgiving
dinner and did up some turkey.
I'm like, Oh my God.
I like, this is not my favorite food.
Brussels sprouts and the turkey and cranberries.
And like, none of these things are things I grew up that I liked.
And I'm like trying to put on a brave face and be like, okay,
well, I can eat anything basically, um, porridge is probably the only
thing I've had a difficult time, but that's a different story.
Um, And I was blown away by how good it was and how, when it's prepared properly
and you don't just put the whole bird in the oven, she's like, well, the
breast cooks at different temperatures and rates and the leg meat will.
And so you take them all apart.
It doesn't have the pretty presentation of a whole bird,
but it's going to taste good.
Yeah.
How do you like to
Michael Hunter: cook your turkey?
Um, so wild turkey versus farm turkey.
I will stick a whole farm turkey in the oven.
Um, but, uh, wild turkey, I, I pluck it, um, because I want to, I want to
make stock with the bones and stuff.
Um, but I will, uh, separate the leg and the breasts and, um, The recipe in my
cookbook, which I love and I still make, is I stuff the breast with goat cheese,
morels, and ramps, wild leeks, um, with like a sourdough kind of bread crumb.
And it is absolutely my favorite, one of my favorite things of all time.
Um, and then what I've been doing recently is I would usually either
smoke or braise the legs, but I've been into the pressure cooker lately.
So turkey legs in a pressure cooker take like anywhere, depending, cause you
can get different weights for the top.
pressure.
So the higher the pressure, the lower the cooking time.
Um, but yeah, you can do turkey legs and a high pressure pressure cooker
in about half an hour, 45 minutes.
And I cook it with stock and barbecue sauce.
And then once the meat can be shredded just by hand or with a fork, uh,
reduce that cooking liquid into your barbecue sauce, mix it all
together and do like sliders or.
Pulled pulled turkey.
Amazing.
It's incredible.
Um, so that's been my go to, uh, you know, lately for turkey legs.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
Those pressure cookers are amazing when they can do two.
Yeah.
Michael Hunter: And I've, I've just started, I've been sort of
reading about pressure canning.
So that's kind of why I got it.
Travis Bader: Okay.
Michael Hunter: Um, uh, and, you know, doing a little bit of, uh,
just kind of pressure canning.
Preserving.
I want to can, uh, friends of mine's do canned moose, um, but they're not
using jars, they use actual cans, um, because they're lighter and easier to
travel with and, uh, they'll do, you know, whatever seasonings basically
have like, ready to go meal in a can.
Um, that's safer when you can, uh, when you pressure can it, it doesn't
have to have, you know, higher salt or higher acid to preserve it.
Right.
The heat and pressure, um, you know, basically preserves it.
And they said, yeah, you just throw the can in the fire when you're on a
snowmobiling trip or a hunt trip, um, and heat stuff up in the fire, just in a can.
So.
For me, that was really cool.
So I've been sort of researching and geeking out on that recently.
Travis Bader: That is a good idea.
Well, does, don't those cans have like a coating on the inside?
So your food doesn't, um, uh, react with it.
That could, if you're in the fire, kind of melt off of it.
Michael Hunter: Um, that, I don't know that would, I think they're
just tin, but I, I'm not sure, maybe grocery store cans have that.
I'm not sure.
Um, Cause it was actually a restaurant in Quebec.
They've been doing like a duck confit, uh, cassoulet kind of dish in a can where they
open it up at your table and dump it out.
So, and they heat that up.
I think they steam the can or something, but, um, got it.
Yeah.
So I think, yeah, I think you'd have to be careful about what kind of tin you're
using and if there is that coating on it.
Um, but, uh, Yeah, I actually, I haven't, I've, I've, I've done the
pressure canning and the glass.
I haven't found the, the cans are a different little bit of different
setup and you have to actually buy the machine to seal them.
Travis Bader: Right.
Michael Hunter: It's like this big tabletop thing.
And they're, uh, a couple thousand dollars.
So I haven't, I haven't graduated to that yet.
Not yet.
Not that serious yet.
Not yet, but, uh, one day.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
Well, I was lucky for the longest.
I'm right next door to the studio in.
Vancouver, uh, was a butcher packer supply.
And so every year for Christmas and birthdays and Valentine's day, the gift
was, Hey, you're getting a meat slicer.
Oh, cool.
Hey, you're getting a sausage stuffer.
Perfect.
Absolutely.
Perfect.
And she loved it.
So it worked out well for everybody.
Yeah.
Pressure cooking.
Oxtail.
That's one of my favorite things that a pressure cooker.
Michael Hunter: Jamaican
Travis Bader: cuisine, oxtail.
So when it comes to turkey, I haven't done much turkey hunting.
School me, if I'm going to be a successful turkey hunter, what are
some things that I need to be good at?
Michael Hunter: I guess, prepare yourself for disappointment.
Okay.
I've got that, check.
Travis Bader: I got that one.
Michael Hunter: Yeah.
Um, so turkeys have incredible eyesight, you know, they can't smell us, thank
God, or we'd never shoot them, but, um, they just have incredible eyesight.
So, um, really they're good.
Get yourself a really good blind.
Um, or, uh, you have to be really still and kind of sit, sit behind
some kind of natural blind.
Um, but yeah, movement, movement and, you know, camouflage and
just like having mesh kind of over your face and gloves and stuff.
Um, but yeah, movement is kind of their number one sort of, uh, things
they'll pick off if they see you.
Um, So you just have to sit really, really still.
Um, and then, you know, calling there's all kinds of, you know, mouth calls.
I, I, like a diaphragm type call that I like cause you can
kind of have your hands free.
Um, but you, you know, you can use a box call, a slate call.
They all kind of make different, you know, similar sounds.
Um, I would, you know, just, I would watch some sort of videos on how to call, right.
Uh, you know, don't over call.
Um, but yeah, Turkey, Turkey hunting is something that, uh, you know, now I've
been doing, uh, about, you know, 20 plus years of, and, you know, No matter how
much of an expert you think you are, you'll be humbled a few times a year.
And, uh, it's, I think it's a sickness because it's the same amount
of effort that goes into like deer hunting or elk hunting or whatever.
It's, it's the exact same amount of effort, the same amount of driving,
the same amount of preparation.
It's a whole different set of gear and money you're going to
spend for like 10 pounds of meat, like it is a sick obsession.
Um, but I love it.
And it's, it's, um, the excitement that that bird, uh, causes, um, you know,
makes the, when they gobble, I don't know how they can be so freaking loud, but
all the hair stands up on your back and your neck and it's just, Oh my goodness.
This thing is just screaming at you.
And it, it's kind of similar to elk hunting when they bugle that
scream, you know, just makes all the hair on your body stand up.
Um, But it's this little bird, you know, I, I took a really dear friend
of mine hunting that's from Brazil.
Um, obviously they don't, they don't have wild Turkey in Brazil,
but he's hunted all over the world.
He's hunted Africa.
He's hunted Cape Buffalo.
Um, he's always wanted to go Turkey hunting.
So we took him Turkey hunting, uh, and he was shaking for like 10 minutes after
and he goes, I haven't shaken like this since I, you know, shot a Cape Buffalo.
Like he was just, he couldn't believe.
You know, how, uh, exciting this bird was.
And, and, uh, it took him a long time to shoot it.
Cause he was just, there was, I think a bunch of Jake's and some, some, you know,
less dominant Toms and the big dominant Tom and they're all like, he just had this
huge, uh, kind of show in front of them.
And we kept being like, Hey, you need to shoot, you need to shoot.
He was just watching, he was just taking it all in.
And, uh, yeah, it was just such an incredible experience.
And it's, it's.
It's an amazing bird.
Um, and, uh, it's an amazing hunt.
Um, so yeah, if you're new to it or haven't, you know, gone turkey hunting,
I would highly recommend it, but, um, it can be frustrating, you know, sometimes
they're incredibly stupid and they just, they do exactly what you want them to do.
And they march right in and, you know, some people use decoys sometimes.
You don't use decoys, but they come right to you.
You know, they come when they're called and it's amazing.
And then other times you will like, I remember one turkey, it took me
like 20 days to actually shoot one.
Uh, I wanted, uh, you know, I wanted to jump off a bridge.
Like it was, my wife was like, can you either shoot one or like stop hunting
because you're miserable to live with?
And the later in the season, like it starts in the spring, you know,
our season is at the end of April.
Um, And I think sunrise is like seven o'clock or something.
So you go out at like five or six by the end of the season, you're getting
up at like 3 00 AM to get out there an hour because the, you know, the, the,
the sun is changing, the sunrise keeps changing, getting earlier and earlier.
And it just gets, as the season goes on, it's like more miserable
and miserable you become.
But, um, yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's a fun addiction.
Travis Bader: Well, that's one of the fun things about the hunt is that
you can actually hunt in the spring.
Yeah.
So we've totally, yeah.
Breaks up the year.
Yeah.
So we've got.
Bear.
Do you have a spring bear here?
We do.
Okay.
That's just in Nova Scotia.
And they had a big vote on whether they could.
Yeah.
They stayed it right.
They, they stopped it or they went ahead with, I can't remember.
No, no.
The, apparently they put the vote out to a Halifax residents and they're
like, no, we like these bears.
We don't want, they're fuzzy.
They're cute.
Right.
Yeah.
Until they rip up your.
Um, shed trying to get your garbage.
Totally.
And they've got enough to support the spring hunt, but
it was, it was voted down.
Yeah.
Um, but yeah, the,
Michael Hunter: the
Travis Bader: turkey
Michael Hunter: hunting's the, um, have you done much bear hunting?
I have not.
Uh, so I have a friend that, that runs hounds after them, which I quite love.
Um, so it's kind of nostalgic cause he's got some fox hounds mixed in with
his walkers and coon hounds and stuff.
Um, so I I'm really into that.
Um, I've done some of those sitting over a barrel.
I've never actually, actually I have killed one over a barrel.
Um, but I find the hounds more fun.
Travis Bader: Okay.
Michael Hunter: Yeah.
In BC, we
Travis Bader: can't do it over a barrel.
Can't, can't beat them.
Alberti can.
Yeah.
Um, that's where I shot, shot one over a barrel was in Alberta.
Yeah.
Um, so I've, I've never, I've never hunted over bait.
Yeah.
Um, I think it'd be an interesting thing to try out.
I mean, it's, um, Yeah, I feel like getting eaten by bugs.
It's great.
Yeah, I guess so, eh?
Uh, but yeah, for the, uh, for those turkeys there, I'll see them
all over the side of the road in areas where I can't hunt them.
And then the second they go out there in the wild, is morning time
a better time to get them, is?
Michael Hunter: Yeah.
So when we, so when they first, when I first started hunting them
here, it was fairly new, um, You still had to take a turkey, cause
they were extinct in Ontario.
So you had to take, they reintroduced them in the eighties, I believe.
Um, and now they're flourishing, which is, which is wonderful for conservation.
But, um, when I first started hunting them 22 years ago, uh, you could only
hunt till like 11 or noon or something.
Okay.
You could only shoot one.
You had to take a turkey course on how to identify the wild turkey
and, you know, all the rules and regulations around turkey hunting.
You had to take it to a way station.
Really?
To have it weighed and recorded and stuff.
Um, so there was all these strict rules around turkey hunting.
So you could, you actually couldn't hunt in the afternoon.
Um, now you can hunt in the afternoon.
They cut it off.
I think it's till like five because, um, later than five, they just
start coming to their roost tree and they don't want people shooting
them out of the trees, right?
I think is the sort of logic behind that, but, um, they're more vocal
in the morning, so it's definitely more exciting for a single morning.
Um, I actually have had probably better luck around the 10 AM, 11 AM kind of time.
At 6 AM, they all fly down.
And, uh, they start doing their thing.
So they're, they're chasing their hens.
They've got their sort of routine.
Um, if you're calling a dominant Tom, he's most likely with hens that he's
been kind of courting all season.
So when you put up your hen decoy, or if you're making your hen sounds,
it's hard to pull the Tom away from, uh, active, you know, real hen.
Um, so after that sort of first sunrise, you know, vocal show and,
uh, sometimes you'll see them across the field, but they won't come.
Um, I think around like nine or 10, the hens will go back and sit on
their nests cause they've got eggs.
Right.
So then the toms are out cruising, looking for, looking for love.
Right.
Travis Bader: Looking for love.
You know, that 10 11 window, I think I've got more game in that
window than any time of the day.
And everyone talks about first light and yes, I've gotten
game at first light, but, um,
Michael Hunter: I
Travis Bader: seem to get, get more game in
Michael Hunter: that window.
Yeah.
And it's, uh, but yeah, you, you know, there are definitely, it's like hunting
is, is like every kind of hunting.
It's, um, A lot of luck and, and, uh, it can happen
Travis Bader: any
Michael Hunter: time of day, but.
Travis Bader: Yeah, my buddy, he says, you know, tip I use is
I'll drive up to an area and I'll early morning, I'll honk my horn.
And if I hear something gobble back at me, okay, that's where I get out at.
I'm like, okay.
Michael Hunter: It's so funny.
Like you'll hear a train go by and they'll gobble.
It's called a shock gobble.
So they just, they get startled when they gobble.
Yeah.
You slam your car door, they gobble.
Um, I know some people, they hunt sort of crown land and they'll gobble.
They'll drive around and just kind of call it the truck window.
And if something answers back, they shut the door.
They run out with their gear and they kind of go set up, you know, 20 yards from the
road or whatever the legal limit is, but
Travis Bader: I don't
Michael Hunter: know how ethical that is.
But, uh, yeah, it's, there's all, there's all kinds of ways you can do it.
So you're working
Travis Bader: on a new cookbook, perhaps.
Michael Hunter: Working on a new book.
Yeah.
So I, uh, the first one was very successful and I was really happy with it.
Uh, definitely a labor of love.
Yeah.
Um, and it did really well.
And, and, uh, my publisher was, was really happy.
It sold really well in the States too, which was, um, you know, really lucky
for a first time Canadian author.
Um, and, uh, I've definitely been a lot more passionate and,
uh, inspired by cooking outside.
Um, so I mentioned earlier, the more time I spend outside, the
less time I want to spend inside.
Um, you know, and, and I've just created some really cool recipes
cooking out at camps and hunting trips.
Um, so I wanted to do a book sort of more focused on cooking outside Uh,
you know, a little bit of a barbecue sort of theme to some recipes.
Um, but, uh, you know, over the fire, some pizza recipes.
Um, you know, I, I spoke about canning.
There's a, a canned moose recipe in there sort of inspired by my,
uh, friends from Newfoundland.
Um, but, uh, yeah, so this, this next one is over the fire themed.
I like
Travis Bader: that a lot.
Michael Hunter: Yeah.
Have, have you ever had moose nose?
I have actually, I had moose nose in Russia of all places and, uh,
kind of gelatinous cartilagey, um, Yeah, definitely interesting.
I would love to try like an indigenous recipe here.
Travis Bader: Right.
Michael Hunter: Um, cause I think in, you know, in Russia, Siberia,
they've kind of got their own recipes.
Um, but yeah, definitely interesting, you know, kind of cool.
Um, would yeah, I'd love to, uh, I've got some indigenous friends,
uh, to hit them up for a recipe or to taste, uh, their cooking.
Travis Bader: I'd be interested.
I
Michael Hunter: haven't had
Travis Bader: moose nose.
I hear, you know, in some cultures that's a delicacy.
Michael Hunter: Yeah.
And Russia is very cool, uh, in terms of culinary, not, not
their Politics and policies, but, um, they can serve wild game.
So, um, my friend that was working there, I don't think the restaurants open, you
know, these days with what's going on.
Um, but he, uh, worked at a place that everything was wild.
Like they didn't bring in anything that was farmed.
Um, so I went in there and they had this dry aging room and there was ducks and
beaver and moose and all this stuff.
I was like blown away as a chef for me.
That's, you know, my dream.
Um, and, uh, Because, you know, unlike fish, you can't, unless you hunt
yourself, you can't buy wild game, um, because of market hunting and, and,
uh, unless you go to Newfoundland, um, because, you know, market
hunting and the 1800s has ruined it.
So, um, you know, you can buy wild fish as a non fisherman.
Um, but you know, I think kind of people have the right to eat wild game.
Uh, and I think with some species that are overabundant, um, you
know, maybe there's a way to do it.
So how come Newfoundland can get around that?
Works.
Travis Bader: What's so special over there?
There's a couple
Michael Hunter: of different sort of theories, uh, and I've spoken to my
friends out there and they said that, you know, it's just, it's always the way
it's been and no one's ever changed it.
Um, I heard it was a way to sort of cull the moose cause the moose are non native
to Newfoundland, the island anyway.
Um, and they're sort of pushing out the wild caribou population,
they're just eating all the food.
Um, you know, I've heard, you know, I don't know how accurate it is,
but there's more moose than people.
So they're trying to kind of cull that.
too.
Yeah.
I don't know if it's true or not.
But, um.
And I've also heard it's a tourism thing.
They want people to experience Newfoundland and they did it for tourism.
Uh, you know, I don't know the, the ins and outs, the legal stuff behind it,
but, uh, you know, for them it works.
Um, I don't know if it's all species or just some species, but
again, in terms of conservation, I think there's a way to do it.
Um, I definitely don't want.
Just support my entire restaurant with wild game.
But, uh, you know, in certain seasons, I think there'd be, it would be fun
to, uh, explore how to do it as a, as a feature or as a, you know, now
we can do it as a charity event.
There's a lot of red tape and, and hassle that goes along with it.
But, um, you know, I think if people have the right to eat it and try it, um, You
know, we've had some ideas and spoken to some people about, you know, ways
that we could try and do it, whether, you know, every hunter in Ontario
can get two buck tags a year, right?
Um, you know, without allotting any more tags, you know, why couldn't I use one
of my tags to bring to the restaurant?
You know, it's, you know, right now it's against the law, but I think
it'd be something to consider.
You know, it might be interesting for tourism for Ontario and, um, you
know, I think, I think, you know, there'd be a lot of controversy.
We might get the vegans back, you know, but, uh, you know, for me,
it's a, I want to share that with people and I don't like, I don't want
to necessarily make money off it or support my entire restaurant with it.
Cause I don't think you could do that.
Um, yeah.
Uh, you know, sustainably, um, but I would like to share that with people that
necessarily don't hunt, you know, like my wild Turkey experience, like, unless
you go and hunt one or know someone that hunted one that can gift you that meat,
which is pretty precious considering all the work that goes into that little bird.
But, um, you know, I, I think that, uh, uh, I think people, people
would really enjoy that experience.
Travis Bader: So do you, I'm guessing you spend more time now outside of
the kitchen than inside the kitchen.
Michael Hunter: Yeah.
Travis Bader: Um, and you spend a lot of time traveling too, don't you?
I have.
Yeah.
How was that having a young family, running a restaurant, traveling?
Yeah.
Michael Hunter: How do you deal with all that?
Yeah, it's tough.
You know, we're lucky.
We have great staff here and I wouldn't be able to do it if, if we didn't.
Um, you know, definitely the first five, we've been here nine years now.
So the first five years I was here a lot, um, you know, nights and weekends
and my whole life, you know, as a 13 year old kid, I've been working
nights and weekends in restaurants.
So, um.
You know, I've got two older kids and one young kid.
Um, so now I just, I want to spend more time with my family.
So we, I know we've got a great chef here that, you know, we'll,
we'll work together on the menu, uh, but he runs the day to day.
Um, and I get to see my family.
So, uh, the traveling thing, you know, that's, uh, I don't travel,
uh, You know, I, I, once a month, I'll take a few days for a trip
somewhere during hunting season.
I was, I'm sure you do, you travel more and, um, on the road more, but I don't,
I'm not really gone for more than five days to a week, you know, every month.
It's still a fair bit.
It's a fair bit, but you know, I think.
If I was in the restaurant every day, I'd never be home.
So
Travis Bader: that's the way my
Michael Hunter: life was like for a long time.
So for me, it doesn't feel like a lot, but, um, I guess, you know, for the
average family, that's nine to five.
Sure.
That seems like a lot, but, um, you know, my wife used to travel a lot for
her work, so she really understands it.
Um, and for me, just on the sort of.
Business side, you know, now I, I, you know, I work with some brands, uh, because
I have a unique, um, you know, niche that I can write recipes for hunting
companies and work sort of in the, I can still work in a food space, but
in the outdoor space at the same time.
Um, uh, that, you know, now it's a source of income.
So it's, it's, it's my hobby, but it's also work now.
So.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
You know, there's always that, uh, that difficulty of making your hobby, your
work, and all of a sudden the thing you found so much pleasure and joy in is
now becoming something that's your work.
Right.
Is that something you have to wrestle with?
Michael Hunter: A little, a little bit.
It's not, uh, it's not too bad.
Um, You know, there was only really once that I got really frustrated with
something because it was supposed to be a deer hunt where we were going to
film some stuff and it turned into, no, we're just filming some stuff
and it's looking like a deer hunt and I was like, yeah, this isn't cool.
Like I voiced that pretty clearly.
Uh, but yeah, it was, it was, that was probably my only experience
that wasn't, uh, wasn't fun, but, um, I'm not a pretend deer hunter.
I was like, this is no, no, no, wait a second.
Like, I'm like, well, it really doesn't matter if we shoot a deer.
There's, we've got all the, we're still at the filming.
I'm like, no, no, no.
So, um, but, uh, yeah, for the most part it's, it's been very positive.
And, uh, I've met some of my best friends and closest friends today from the hunting
community and the outdoors community.
And it's, um, it's, yeah, it's been a blessing.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
It's, uh, a friend of mine, he's an instructor and, uh,
teaches hunter education and.
Firearm safety and he's, uh, I think he's, what's in his seventies now.
Okay.
Anyways, um, Indo Canadian fellow.
And he talks about, he says in his thick accent and telling me about, he says,
you know, people talk about hunting and they talk about firearms and they
say that these are just, um, tools that will hurt people and that'll bring
people down and he says, all, all of my friends, I've met so many people.
This is.
Going out hunting and these fires, this is a tool that I've used my entire life.
And I've made connections with people that I'd never be able to talk to otherwise.
And, uh, he says my closest relations and friends that I
have are all because of this.
And I always liked that perspective that he had.
Yeah.
Um,
Michael Hunter: Yeah.
And it's very strange.
Like in North America, uh, I think it's changing a little bit, but, you know, I
think of like, you know, duck dynasty and these sort of redneck, you know, hunters
and they, I'm sure they ham it up a bit to lean more into that, but, uh, you
know, in, in Europe and other parts of the world, hunting is a very high class kind
of nobility type, uh, sport, you know?
Um, and in North America, it's really looked down on.
Um, you know, Um, you know, when you actually talk to hunters and talk
about the conservation piece, like all of the money generated from tags and
generated from hunting sales in the States, percentages of those sales go
towards conservation where, and, you know, if you look at the whole Africa
sort of hunting, uh, controversies that, uh, You know, without the
hunting dollars, those animals die.
Right.
Um, and I was, you know, even as a hunter, I didn't understand the African thing.
And I think it was a Cecil the lion sort of thing that blew up and went viral.
I was like, you know, that's stupid.
Why would anyone shoot a lion?
And then someone actually took the time to talk to me about, okay, the money
that is generated by hunting these animals actually pays for the rangers
that go in there and protect them
Travis Bader: because
Michael Hunter: without, you know, the, the anti hunting community,
they don't, Spend enough money on it.
So it was just sort of fascinating.
And then when you actually look at the sort of the, some of the science
behind animal management that, you know, some of these animals like lions or
whatever, that they're, they are hunting in Africa, they're too old to breed.
They won't let the younger lions breed.
It's actually better for the population if you shoot the oldest dominant one.
Travis Bader: So
Michael Hunter: it's kind of fascinating, you know, not that, uh, You know, I'm not,
I don't have any desire to go and do it.
Um, but at least now I understand it and I'm not sort of ignorant about it.
You've hunted outside of Canada?
I have in, uh, in, in the States.
Yes.
Um, I think we're, I've done hunting in Italy, um, with Frankie.
Um, uh, did some shooting in Brazil.
There's some things you can do while bored and stuff like that.
So, um, Again, I don't think they had proper sort of management practices
and, and they sort of banned hunting.
Um, it's coming back now with, uh, you know, the invasion of wild boar.
Um, uh, but I think that's
Travis Bader: it.
It's interesting looking at different cultures and how they approach hunting.
Like you're saying in Europe, it's, uh, I,
Michael Hunter: we're all the same.
Which is like, I've hunted with Italian guys that we don't speak
the same language, but we'll laugh like someone will miss.
And then they start razzing their body, you know, like, it's like,
we're all the same and it's, we're all doing this for the same reasons.
And we just want to put food on it.
Like it's, it's, it's really funny when you start looking at the different
cultures, but like, we're the same people.
Travis Bader: That's it.
You're connecting with nature, you're connecting with each other.
Yeah.
Uh, you're doing something that's not easy.
Yeah.
There's a shared adversity to it all and there's a celebration at the end.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
Is there any, well, what do you see yourself in the future?
Where do you see things going with yourself personally and with Antler?
Michael Hunter: Yeah.
You know, we, um, we've been here for nine years, so it's, we, you
know, we're struggling with growth.
We'd, we'd love to grow the brand and grow the business.
Um, you know, we've had some bad luck with the economy and things like that.
Um, you know, we had a, we were trying to buy a building during COVID and
that fell through, um, our interest rates now with borrowing and real
estate are really out of whack.
So.
You know what, I'd like, I'd love to grow the brand and maybe, uh, uh, maybe
a few more locations, maybe a little bit of a different type of concept.
Um, one thing we didn't plan on here is, um, being so meat focused, especially
with, if I butchered a whole salmon in front of the window, it might've been a
lot different for us, but I love seafood and it's, I love fish and seafood and
it's, people come here to try game meat.
So it's, I didn't realize that with the name and with the thing in the front
window that, uh, we'd really do that.
Turn into a wild game kind of steakhouse, but, uh, nothing's any wrong with that.
I just, I, I would love to sell more fish and it's hard with our name, um,
and concept that we've sort of created, but, uh, so I'd love to do a bit more
of a seafood focused concept, um, like
Travis Bader: a completely separate restaurant, a different restaurant.
Yeah.
Um, that'd be good.
Yeah.
Thought up yet?
I don't
Michael Hunter: have a name.
No, finding a name for the restaurant was actually the
hardest part of opening restaurant.
Was it really?
One of the hardest part.
Yeah.
We had hundreds of names on a white chalkboard.
Um, and it was very difficult because once, you know, that name, like
that's your identity forever, you know, until you're, until you close
it, so, uh, or rebrand or whatever.
But, um, Yeah, I would love, I would love to work with more
fish, um, you know, we've got the other, other book in the works.
Uh, I'd like to continue the, the cookbooks.
I think it's, uh, it helps me as a chef grow and it's forcing me to kind
of come up with new ideas and recipes.
Um, yeah, I'd like to do some more media stuff.
I may have a show in the works and the outdoor space.
Um, and, um, Just continue to kind of keep growing as a, as a hunter and a chef.
Are you writing the full book front to back?
You got people helping with certain areas?
So this, the first book, um, I definitely had a lot of help.
Uh, this book, I took on more of the writing.
Um.
Myself, um, which was a challenge, but fun.
Um, I, I definitely want to create more of a team environment for the book.
Um, my business partner is a photographer.
One of his sort of jobs that, uh, careers that he has as a, is in photography.
So he does, uh, he does the food photography.
I actually took a lot of the landscape and wildlife photography.
I did.
I love photography, but I would, I would love, um, And when I was spoken to,
you know, guys like Hank Shaw or, or I actually, I don't know if he has a team,
but there's a, there's a guy actually on the East coast, um, chef Michael
Smith, he's done, I think, 12 books.
So he's got a team.
He's got some guys in the kitchen that help him, the photographers.
Uh, he does all the writing, but he's, he's got a team that kind of.
that help.
I think it's three or four people.
Um, yeah, I'd like to, I'd like to maybe get a little team together for the
books because it's, it's so much work.
The, like my books are a hundred recipes, uh, and the writing, the
photography, the cooking, everything.
It's, it's just crazy how much goes into it.
And then you have to reshoot stuff and take multiple takes of things.
And it's, um, it's very, very difficult.
So.
Travis Bader: Well, if you can template that, you know, Hank, Hank,
I don't think he's got a team he does.
He's a very talented writer.
And I think his photos were mostly at the one point anyways, was Holly doing it.
Yeah.
But, um, uh, I think if you're able to template that and so everyone's got
their tasks and you can roll it out.
That'd be a lot of fun.
But then of course you're relying on this whole team, but the same breath,
then you don't have to necessarily be the one driving it forward at every step.
Michael Hunter: Um, definitely in the writing, the recipes, like
I'm great at scribbling a recipe or in my phone, in my notes.
But when it comes to, you know, putting it in the cookbook format,
it's a very special Particular format and, uh, uh, the list of
ingredients has to match the method.
And it's, yeah, it's definitely, uh, definitely, uh, a
challenging, challenging work.
Do you do much baking?
I love baking.
Yeah.
I actually, uh, my business partner and I did a, uh, bread course in Chicago
with a, um, uh, master, uh, French baker.
Um, just to kind of, uh, You know, learn some more about sourdough and
natural, uh, yeasts and stuff like that.
But yeah, I love baking.
I love pizza, uh, even pastry.
I love the pastry kitchen.
So just a lot of chefs will specialize and some chefs, they,
they don't hate pastry and they hate baking and sort of vice versa.
But, uh, yeah, I love it all.
I love it.
I just, I love challenging.
I love going down the rabbit hole of information and figuring things out.
Um, recently I, I had a sort of distilling and.
Uh, moonshining sort of rabbit hole during COVID, um, which was interesting and fun.
And then I later found out completely illegal in Canada.
Well BC,
Travis Bader: you can actually do it.
Oh, cool.
Yeah.
I didn't know that.
Yeah.
You can have a, you're just not supposed to be selling it, I guess.
But aside from that, you can have stills.
Yeah.
Michael Hunter: Very cool.
Travis Bader: Um, I think, I say, not that I would.
Yeah, I haven't
Michael Hunter: checked that out, but, um, but because of that and my hobby
and learning about fermentation, we actually, um, developed a gin, uh, with
a local distillery, uh, called Nickel Nine and we're doing a cedar gin.
So gin is usually juniper forward.
Uh, one of our cocktails in the early days of antler and we still
have today is a cedar gin sour.
So we're taking gin, uh, we're trying to figure out ways we incorporate
foraging into the cocktail menu.
So we started infusing, you know, store bought gin with just the
green cedar boughs, like the leaves.
Um, and it kind of, Had this beautiful forest flavor.
So we, uh, you know, it took a while to figure out how long to infuse it.
You know, if you do it too long, it goes Brown and you're going
to get more of a woody taste.
Um, so I think it's a couple of days.
We do it with that green leaf from the Cedar and it has a very
fresh kind of foresty flavor.
And then we do a, like a Cedar gin sour with that.
Um, so, you know, post COVID and my moonshining sort of a hobby.
Um, we wanted to put this in a bottle and sell it.
So, um, Uh, now, yeah, now we have the antlered cedar gin.
I see right there.
Besides behind you there.
Get a picture of that later.
But yeah, I had
Travis Bader: some last night actually.
It was fantastic.
Yeah, it was very good.
Michael Hunter: Uh, so that's kind of how that happened.
There's another project.
Uh, I love, um, tapping, uh, trees for maple syrup in the spring.
So I want to try and use that and, and to, uh, to distilled sort of,
um, a product that we're working on.
You guys have a
Travis Bader: lot of sugar maples around here, don't you?
Yeah.
Yeah, especially
Michael Hunter: on north of the city.
Um, one of the farms where I grew up, um, I play on the neighbor's farm.
Uh, my mom sold the farm long ago, but, um, I still go up and tap the
neighbor's trees and my business partners cottage we tap up there.
Um, and just sort of for our own use, you know, I make about 50 liters,
I think a year, which is not enough for the restaurant, but we'll do some
little features or dinners with it.
But most of it is just for home.
Travis Bader: Okay.
And so 50 liters, that's going to be like, how many to make 50 liters?
How much?
That's a ton to make 50 liters,
Michael Hunter: isn't it?
I find that it's depending on the season, but you generally get a liter per tap at
the end of the year, a finished syrup.
Travis Bader: Okay.
Michael Hunter: So it's anywhere from 20 liters to 40 liters of, of raw sap.
Boiled down to make one liter of syrup.
That's crazy.
And that depends on the tree.
So a sugar maple has a higher sugar content than like a red or silver maple
or where you guys are, the big leaf maple.
Yeah.
Um, but yeah, they all have sugar.
It's just the actual species of tree.
The sugar maple, uh, has a higher sugar content.
Travis Bader: We've got family in Nova Scotia who will do it.
I've never done it back in BC because it's, I don't know.
I I've heard people do it.
Birch.
Michael Hunter: Yep.
Yeah.
You do birch syrup.
Birch syrup happens, they run later.
So you can actually make maple syrup first and then the birch starts running.
Maples, uh, they stop running when that, when they start to bud and the
snow melts, they're kind of done.
Um, what happens when it freezes at night?
and thaws during the day, the sap flows up the tree.
They're trying to feed the, the, the, the buds to grow leaves.
Um, and then once the snow melts, uh, the birch start running for some reason.
Travis Bader: Is there anything that we haven't talked about
that we should be talking about?
I'm sure there's lots,
Michael Hunter: but, uh, yeah, that's it that comes to mind.
Okay.
Well, I'm looking
Travis Bader: forward to
Michael Hunter: when you're
Travis Bader: over here in BC
Michael Hunter: or.
Yeah, I'll let you know.
I've taken up spearfishing.
Yeah.
Uh, I love, I love throwing out crab and prawn traps.
BC is great.
I love BC.
Well, guess what?
I've got prawn traps.
You're really awesome, man.
Let's hang out.
And spears.
Oh, amazing.
Cool.
Yeah.
Travis Bader: I got a, um.
A couple of spearguns, but you know what I prefer to use?
It's just a Hawaiian sling.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
What do you use them?
Michael Hunter: So I've only done it once and, uh, a friend of my wife's actually,
who I've become really great friends with, uh, he's a, I think carpenter
contractor by trade and he's, he makes his own spear guns on the Island.
So it's, it's, I think it's Bickerson, Brett Bickerson, Bickerson
spear guns from Vancouver Island.
I'll have to check it out.
Yeah.
So he does their kind of a wooden, uh, frame or stock, I guess.
Um, and then he's got the rubber bands and the metal spears.
Well, you've done some work with meat eater too.
Yes.
Yeah.
So Kimmy Werner.
Yes.
Have you done anything with her?
I've met her at a Traeger barbecue conference, which was awesome.
She's great.
Um, I haven't actually worked or connected with her.
Um, I haven't been to Hawaii in a while, but, uh, yeah, I'd
love to do something with her.
She's great.
Travis Bader: Interesting.
Okay.
Michael Hunter: Well, we'll talk more off air
Travis Bader: here, but, uh,
Michael Hunter: thank you so much for being on the podcast.
Thanks for having me and coming to Antler.
This is great.
Travis Bader: Oh, I really enjoyed it.
And are you kidding me?
I'm definitely gonna be back here.
This is.