WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:24.838 --> 00:00:28.158 Anke: Hello and welcome, Julia and Barbara. 00:00:28.208 --> 00:00:30.598 I'm excited to have you here. 00:00:30.618 --> 00:00:33.958 We've been trying to arrange this for a while, but it's not that easy between 00:00:33.958 --> 00:00:35.718 three and different countries and all. 00:00:36.028 --> 00:00:37.488 So welcome. 00:00:37.578 --> 00:00:38.798 Lovely to have you here. 00:00:39.148 --> 00:00:45.318 So why don't we start out and I'll hand over the mic to both of you 00:00:45.468 --> 00:00:49.058 to just quickly introduce yourself and then the good old question. 00:00:49.078 --> 00:00:50.838 What's your business with dogs? 00:00:52.378 --> 00:00:53.238 Excellent. 00:00:53.898 --> 00:00:59.628 Julia: Well, I'm Julia Hawkins and this is Barbara Patterson. 00:01:01.178 --> 00:01:03.338 And between us, we're barking up the right tree. 00:01:04.578 --> 00:01:05.108 I love it. 00:01:05.508 --> 00:01:06.338 Love the title. 00:01:09.218 --> 00:01:12.728 Barbara, do you want to start talking about how it all happened? 00:01:12.728 --> 00:01:15.158 Because you were the one that started it, weren't you? 00:01:15.158 --> 00:01:16.458 Oh, it's all your fault then. 00:01:16.458 --> 00:01:17.853 Yeah, it is. 00:01:17.853 --> 00:01:18.782 Anke: Totally her 00:01:18.782 --> 00:01:19.247 Barbara: fault. 00:01:21.598 --> 00:01:22.218 Right. 00:01:22.228 --> 00:01:28.928 So, um, so I live in Namibia, which is, uh, uh, country in Southern Africa on the 00:01:28.938 --> 00:01:32.688 Southwest, um, side of this big continent. 00:01:33.198 --> 00:01:40.528 And I've been a dog trainer for years and, um, been trying to expand my reach 00:01:41.308 --> 00:01:47.548 and realized, um, that all the online, you know, that, you know, working online. 00:01:48.068 --> 00:01:48.988 Um, it's fun. 00:01:49.038 --> 00:01:54.188 I really enjoy it, but I was a bit tired of always doing everything just on my own. 00:01:54.948 --> 00:02:00.548 Um, I've, I mean, I can, you know, I have a history of doing a lot of things 00:02:00.568 --> 00:02:05.208 for the first time in a place and so on and always, always just on my own. 00:02:05.248 --> 00:02:07.538 And I really didn't want to do it on my own. 00:02:07.568 --> 00:02:13.788 And so Julia and I knew each other, uh, met in a, um, in a business group, 00:02:13.998 --> 00:02:16.118 actually, in a dog, for dog trainers. 00:02:16.758 --> 00:02:17.428 And. 00:02:18.298 --> 00:02:18.568 Lit. 00:02:18.598 --> 00:02:23.628 I literally woke up one morning thinking, Julia, I'm going to talk to Julia. 00:02:23.628 --> 00:02:27.138 I think we had at that point, done the odd Facebook live together. 00:02:27.378 --> 00:02:27.618 Julia: Yeah. 00:02:27.618 --> 00:02:28.368 We had, haven't we? 00:02:28.493 --> 00:02:28.773 Yeah. 00:02:28.773 --> 00:02:29.173 At that point. 00:02:29.173 --> 00:02:29.453 Yeah. 00:02:29.523 --> 00:02:29.813 Barbara: Yeah. 00:02:30.073 --> 00:02:34.938 And uh, yeah, so then I just sent a message over to Julia to say, Hey, 00:02:35.288 --> 00:02:36.848 do you feel like doing this thing? 00:02:37.758 --> 00:02:39.228 Julia: And that was what that was. 00:02:39.688 --> 00:02:43.148 August 2023, wasn't it? 00:02:43.308 --> 00:02:45.008 End of August 2023. 00:02:45.678 --> 00:02:52.898 Um, and then what we did from there is we planned, um, an amazing free 00:02:52.908 --> 00:02:59.228 festival for owners of Reactive Dogs, where we brought together, was it 33 00:02:59.228 --> 00:03:01.218 of the world's, like, top experts. 00:03:01.218 --> 00:03:03.048 It was, it was brilliant, wasn't it? 00:03:03.988 --> 00:03:05.448 Anke: I think that's how I found you. 00:03:05.518 --> 00:03:11.308 I think before, before we sort of go there, I'm still a little bit curious, 00:03:11.308 --> 00:03:16.638 like, what, out of all the people that were in that group, why Julia? 00:03:16.648 --> 00:03:19.208 What drew you to her specifically? 00:03:19.838 --> 00:03:21.088 I'd like to know this too. 00:03:24.788 --> 00:03:30.128 Barbara: So, um, you know, I, I'm a Buddhist, so I, I chant Nam myoho 00:03:30.128 --> 00:03:35.208 renge kyo, uh, every morning, evening, so specifically in the mornings very 00:03:35.238 --> 00:03:41.738 much to like make the best of the day, and I kind of had this, I just 00:03:41.738 --> 00:03:47.878 had this wish, you know, to be able to share the excitement, the, the 00:03:47.878 --> 00:03:52.318 planning, the, the bouncing of ideas, all the things when you do a project. 00:03:52.638 --> 00:03:57.458 with another person, um, to have somebody to really do that with. 00:03:57.498 --> 00:04:04.198 And I think that there was no, you know, there was no real sort of, Oh, 00:04:04.778 --> 00:04:06.268 should it be this person or that person? 00:04:06.268 --> 00:04:07.818 It wasn't really a selection process. 00:04:07.818 --> 00:04:10.398 That was just, I literally woke up one morning and I thought, 00:04:10.958 --> 00:04:12.178 I'm going to reach out to Julia. 00:04:13.258 --> 00:04:17.688 It was, it was literally just popped up and I, I believe it was a response to 00:04:17.688 --> 00:04:19.568 my pulling this out into the universe. 00:04:19.568 --> 00:04:21.528 This is my person. 00:04:22.118 --> 00:04:23.468 And, uh, and it was Julia. 00:04:23.468 --> 00:04:25.128 And it, and I wasn't wrong, was I? 00:04:25.708 --> 00:04:27.178 No, apparently not, right? 00:04:27.838 --> 00:04:28.318 You're here. 00:04:29.788 --> 00:04:33.543 No, we haven't had a moment of Um, disagreement or no? 00:04:33.543 --> 00:04:34.348 Well, no, no, no. 00:04:34.348 --> 00:04:37.228 Look, we don't always agree a hundred percent on how we wanna 00:04:37.228 --> 00:04:40.738 do things, but, um, we don't, uh, argue about it, you know? 00:04:40.738 --> 00:04:42.418 No, we don't an argument ever. 00:04:42.718 --> 00:04:43.738 We just talk about it. 00:04:43.738 --> 00:04:46.858 And if one of us says, no, I don't think so, then, oh, that's interesting. 00:04:46.918 --> 00:04:47.938 You know, tell me why. 00:04:48.448 --> 00:04:51.358 And then we, we make a plan together. 00:04:51.358 --> 00:04:55.248 And I think that's sort of the, the ticket to success too, right? 00:04:55.248 --> 00:04:57.968 Because, because of that, we are better, you know, there's always. 00:04:58.733 --> 00:05:02.333 the other perspective and it never gets boring. 00:05:03.023 --> 00:05:03.103 Julia: That's 00:05:03.103 --> 00:05:03.123 Barbara: for 00:05:03.323 --> 00:05:03.703 Julia: sure. 00:05:04.973 --> 00:05:08.643 Barbara: And we really, um, yeah, we're really swimming in the 00:05:08.643 --> 00:05:09.913 right, in the same direction. 00:05:11.493 --> 00:05:12.803 Anke: So Barking Up the Right Tree. 00:05:12.803 --> 00:05:13.963 I mean, that's such a cool name. 00:05:14.263 --> 00:05:18.503 Um, I, I do recall discovering you through that festival. 00:05:18.523 --> 00:05:21.233 So you, is that the only event you host? 00:05:21.233 --> 00:05:22.443 Is that a regular event? 00:05:22.503 --> 00:05:26.173 And of course, what else are you doing under that umbrella? 00:05:27.688 --> 00:05:31.778 Julia: Well, the festival was, as you know, huge. 00:05:33.058 --> 00:05:35.088 It was, and it's still available. 00:05:35.218 --> 00:05:37.238 So, and it's still totally free. 00:05:37.238 --> 00:05:39.951 So, um, we'll give some details if people want to. 00:05:39.951 --> 00:05:40.977 It's still 00:05:40.978 --> 00:05:41.858 Barbara: totally worth it, right? 00:05:41.868 --> 00:05:42.178 Yeah, 00:05:42.218 --> 00:05:47.123 Julia: it's, it's, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, I think we're both so massively proud of 00:05:47.123 --> 00:05:52.803 what we achieved then because it was just bigger, more comprehensive, more holistic 00:05:52.813 --> 00:05:54.693 than things that have been done before. 00:05:55.083 --> 00:05:57.193 So is it going to be a regular thing? 00:05:57.203 --> 00:05:58.733 Well, no, not on that scale. 00:05:59.253 --> 00:06:03.183 Um, I think we would both have tiny little nervous breakdowns and probably 00:06:03.183 --> 00:06:07.843 be gibbering wrecks in corners if we did that every year or anything like that. 00:06:08.323 --> 00:06:10.463 I think we'll probably do something on a slightly smaller 00:06:10.473 --> 00:06:12.813 scale at some point, similar. 00:06:13.273 --> 00:06:19.208 Um, But we do still have loads of other stuff going on, um, which is 00:06:19.578 --> 00:06:24.448 to do with, um, Reactive Dogs and specifically their owners as well, 00:06:24.478 --> 00:06:28.848 because that's one of the things we think is so crucial, is that it's about 00:06:28.848 --> 00:06:32.538 the partnership and it's about both ends of the lead and how important that is. 00:06:33.078 --> 00:06:38.438 Um, so, you know, we've got a really, we've got an amazing Facebook group, which 00:06:38.468 --> 00:06:40.688 people are very welcome to come and join. 00:06:41.248 --> 00:06:44.408 Which we'll give you the details of that when it's appropriate as well. 00:06:44.408 --> 00:06:48.818 Um, and we do, you know, we do little free challenges and 00:06:48.818 --> 00:06:49.998 all sorts of stuff like that. 00:06:50.258 --> 00:06:52.458 And then we also run courses as well. 00:06:52.738 --> 00:06:58.618 Um, which is based around, you know, our ethos of, you know, 00:06:58.938 --> 00:07:03.628 partnership, positivity, looking after the human as well as the dog, 00:07:03.748 --> 00:07:06.588 um, and, and all that kind of stuff. 00:07:06.588 --> 00:07:06.868 So. 00:07:08.138 --> 00:07:08.928 Anke: Yeah, I love that. 00:07:08.928 --> 00:07:09.318 I love that. 00:07:09.548 --> 00:07:14.718 And reactivity, it's such a, it's like such a perfect topic in the 00:07:14.718 --> 00:07:19.528 sense that I think a lot of, I mean, I've hosted a summit last night. 00:07:19.548 --> 00:07:20.888 Mine wasn't that big. 00:07:20.948 --> 00:07:25.328 I only had 12 speakers, but, um, you know, have been doing like 00:07:25.348 --> 00:07:27.158 masterclasses every once ever since. 00:07:27.348 --> 00:07:31.208 So there's been like, and every time I ask people like, what are 00:07:31.208 --> 00:07:33.158 you most curious to learn about? 00:07:33.498 --> 00:07:38.898 You know, and somehow reactivity comes up time, like it's a real, seems 00:07:38.898 --> 00:07:40.608 to be a massive, a massive issue. 00:07:40.608 --> 00:07:46.458 So it's one of those topics that's precise and broad at the same time, right? 00:07:46.478 --> 00:07:52.488 It's, what, what's your, your take on, uh, I don't know, do you think it's, It 00:07:52.498 --> 00:07:58.058 feels to me like as if it's kind of almost like an epidemic, like it gets worse. 00:07:58.128 --> 00:08:00.088 Is that your perception as well? 00:08:00.548 --> 00:08:06.208 And if somebody goes, yeah, my dog is doing like, what's the thing, you 00:08:06.208 --> 00:08:10.168 know, where do you suggest they start other than joining your Facebook group? 00:08:13.248 --> 00:08:13.768 Barbara: I don't know. 00:08:14.308 --> 00:08:18.888 It could, I mean, I know there are people that have, uh, you know, 00:08:19.168 --> 00:08:23.688 opinion or that it is getting stronger for various reasons. 00:08:24.158 --> 00:08:25.338 Um, and that might be. 00:08:25.608 --> 00:08:32.498 You know, from, from breeding to, um, you know, people's lifestyles 00:08:32.498 --> 00:08:37.218 post, and then also the whole post pandemic, lockdown and all those things. 00:08:37.468 --> 00:08:38.548 So that may be true. 00:08:39.388 --> 00:08:43.738 I also think that, um, you know, uh, 00:08:46.538 --> 00:08:48.228 There is also a good side to this, I think. 00:08:48.238 --> 00:08:51.838 You know, as a Buddhist, I always try to see both sides of the coin, right? 00:08:51.838 --> 00:08:57.858 So I think the good message here is that maybe also more people are increasingly 00:08:57.928 --> 00:09:03.598 aware of how their dogs feel, right? 00:09:03.708 --> 00:09:09.888 So that when they overreact, that it's not simply, um, a question of my dog is 00:09:09.888 --> 00:09:17.728 disobedient or my dog is, um, You know, I don't know how to control the dog, 00:09:17.768 --> 00:09:22.888 but really wanting to help the dog, but feeling helpless at the same time, because 00:09:22.928 --> 00:09:26.788 emotional, I mean, we know emotional stuff is hard to deal with, you know, 00:09:26.858 --> 00:09:31.288 between in any relationship, you know, between any two beings, so whether they're 00:09:31.298 --> 00:09:34.498 human, both humans or different species. 00:09:34.508 --> 00:09:38.378 So I want to believe that that is part of that 00:09:38.378 --> 00:09:39.308 Julia: picture, for sure. 00:09:40.298 --> 00:09:44.128 I think I'd agree with that, and I think It's quite an exciting 00:09:44.128 --> 00:09:48.188 time really, I think, in the dog behaviour world, worldwide. 00:09:48.818 --> 00:09:56.558 Um, in that there's this, there's a real shift that started away from obedience, 00:09:56.988 --> 00:10:03.198 um, and more towards welfare and, um, and care, um, and that kind of thing. 00:10:03.518 --> 00:10:07.808 And that's something that we're very much, you know, want to be at the forefront of. 00:10:08.078 --> 00:10:09.748 Um, and, and I think 00:10:12.428 --> 00:10:17.068 What we're seeing with people is, is in the past where it's been very 00:10:17.068 --> 00:10:22.708 much about obedience is, is trying to fit this different species. 00:10:22.738 --> 00:10:27.358 They may have lived with us for 40, 000 or however many years, um, but 00:10:27.358 --> 00:10:30.338 there's still a different species and we're trying to put them into this 00:10:30.348 --> 00:10:35.588 increasingly complex human world, um, which is really, really difficult 00:10:35.678 --> 00:10:37.078 and people are starting to notice. 00:10:37.863 --> 00:10:42.723 Actually, that's actually quite hard for the dog, as well as that being 00:10:42.723 --> 00:10:47.163 hard for the human, and starting to look at it from the dog's perspective. 00:10:47.443 --> 00:10:52.333 And I think that, for me, that's a really great starting point, is understanding 00:10:52.943 --> 00:10:57.573 where the dog's coming from, because the behavior is always going to be 00:10:57.573 --> 00:10:59.363 driven by how the dog's feeling. 00:10:59.978 --> 00:11:03.998 Um, and if you can start understanding that dog's point of view, then, you 00:11:03.998 --> 00:11:07.258 know, you're part way there already and it's a brilliant foundation 00:11:07.268 --> 00:11:08.598 for you to kind of move on from. 00:11:09.428 --> 00:11:10.018 Anke: I love that. 00:11:10.018 --> 00:11:13.888 I think maybe even in, in the light of that, like maybe it 00:11:13.898 --> 00:11:15.758 hasn't even gotten worse at all. 00:11:15.778 --> 00:11:19.628 It's just, we're more aware of it and, and approach it from a, do you 00:11:19.628 --> 00:11:22.188 see there's like, because you're in two different countries, right? 00:11:23.038 --> 00:11:27.643 So do you find any Any differences there? 00:11:27.643 --> 00:11:30.843 Because like, say I'm based in Spain, so, but I'm from Germany. 00:11:30.843 --> 00:11:38.283 So I see a massive difference there in, in the core attitude towards dogs, 00:11:38.293 --> 00:11:40.353 like what's expected, what isn't. 00:11:40.373 --> 00:11:44.263 Say the germ in Germany, it's very much like, even if I look, talk to my parents, 00:11:44.283 --> 00:11:48.503 right, so it's like, no, no, the dog needs to, you know, so this is how you do it and 00:11:48.533 --> 00:11:52.353 sit and plats and, you know, it needs to be all nice and orderly and disciplined, 00:11:52.363 --> 00:11:54.333 whereas in Spain, yeah, nobody really. 00:11:54.628 --> 00:11:59.298 gives a shit, but at the same time they're also quite happy to consider themselves 00:11:59.298 --> 00:12:03.338 dog lover when they have the dog chained up on a little thing outside, you know, 00:12:03.338 --> 00:12:04.898 and don't see anything wrong with it. 00:12:05.258 --> 00:12:08.928 So, and I think the approaches you would take and how you 00:12:08.938 --> 00:12:11.198 reach people would be different. 00:12:11.198 --> 00:12:16.058 So is that, is there something that you observe from the, you know, 00:12:16.238 --> 00:12:19.618 the clients you work with that are in the countries you're in or 00:12:22.198 --> 00:12:25.608 Julia: It is interesting because there are differences that we've come across. 00:12:25.608 --> 00:12:32.508 So things like, um, what's normal in terms of leaving your dog outside, for example. 00:12:32.518 --> 00:12:36.308 So in this country, it's not the done thing to leave your dog out in the garden. 00:12:36.308 --> 00:12:36.528 It's not the done thing. 00:12:37.433 --> 00:12:40.543 Where Barbara is, it's much more of a done thing to do that. 00:12:40.863 --> 00:12:44.933 Um, which then you've got different, slightly different challenges then. 00:12:45.283 --> 00:12:50.023 Um, although to be honest, in terms from a behavioural perspective, you 00:12:50.023 --> 00:12:53.873 can approach the challenges very much from the, from a similar place. 00:12:54.153 --> 00:12:56.273 Um, if you understand what's going on from the dog's 00:12:56.283 --> 00:12:57.643 perspective, which is interesting. 00:12:58.033 --> 00:13:03.353 But I, I know, and I, I would imagine it's probably similar. 00:13:04.078 --> 00:13:08.648 to Germany in the UK, in that there's kind of, there's two schools of thought. 00:13:08.648 --> 00:13:13.388 There's still people who have that old school, the dog needs to do exactly as 00:13:13.388 --> 00:13:18.308 I say, and you know, the dog is being bad and needs to know right from wrong, 00:13:18.308 --> 00:13:22.058 and all that kind of stuff, which we know, actually isn't how dogs work. 00:13:22.388 --> 00:13:24.928 Um, but there's a lot more now, people. 00:13:24.928 --> 00:13:28.128 We've got, you know, we are lucky here, I think, in that we do have, you 00:13:28.128 --> 00:13:33.698 know, um, owners who are becoming quite enlightened and, and are really keen 00:13:33.838 --> 00:13:37.788 to, as I say, dig into that, uh, seeing things from the dog's perspective. 00:13:37.788 --> 00:13:39.408 So I think within the countries 00:13:41.658 --> 00:13:42.528 as well, you see those 00:13:42.528 --> 00:13:43.051 Barbara: differences as well. 00:13:43.051 --> 00:13:43.399 What do 00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:43.747 Julia: you see? 00:13:43.748 --> 00:13:44.068 I think 00:13:44.068 --> 00:13:50.078 Barbara: in Namibia, a positive And, you know, positive reinforcement 00:13:50.078 --> 00:13:54.608 based animal training methods are still very much underrepresented. 00:13:54.978 --> 00:13:58.468 So it's not easy to find professional services. 00:13:58.538 --> 00:14:03.638 Um, you know, if you, if you struggle, if you want anything, and then 00:14:03.738 --> 00:14:05.678 that the choice is really limited. 00:14:05.968 --> 00:14:13.408 And then also in the, you know, the sort of common perspective is that, you 00:14:13.408 --> 00:14:17.568 know, reward and punishment, you know, if the dog doesn't listen, we have to. 00:14:18.188 --> 00:14:21.928 Use punishment so they understand if, you know, that they do something wrong. 00:14:22.478 --> 00:14:25.758 And that, I mean, I know that that is very white, that is everywhere, right? 00:14:25.768 --> 00:14:32.628 But, um, the problem that we have here, I think, is that it's, you know, so few 00:14:32.628 --> 00:14:38.148 trainers in the first place, and then therefore also only, you know, even less 00:14:38.188 --> 00:14:47.548 that work with force free methods, and even less that really want to, um, yeah, 00:14:47.548 --> 00:14:51.078 look at, look at the emotional world, you know, that open, you know, that. 00:14:51.723 --> 00:14:54.353 In a way we, you know, part, partly share, you know? 00:14:54.353 --> 00:14:54.413 Yeah. 00:14:55.763 --> 00:14:56.633 Um, so yeah. 00:14:57.713 --> 00:14:57.953 Yeah. 00:14:57.953 --> 00:15:00.293 So it's, it's very, very interesting 00:15:00.383 --> 00:15:00.803 Anke: for sure. 00:15:01.703 --> 00:15:04.613 . Mm, I bet it's, it's quite the, yeah. 00:15:04.613 --> 00:15:09.113 I think you, you are mentioning, uh, the, the, the, what I just heard was that piece 00:15:09.113 --> 00:15:11.213 said there isn't even that much awareness. 00:15:11.213 --> 00:15:15.503 Like if people don't even, you know, well there aren't many trainers, but I would 00:15:15.503 --> 00:15:19.913 imagine they're probably also not that many people even looking for support. 00:15:20.818 --> 00:15:25.078 Because you know how you say it's like it's not it's not what what you don't 00:15:25.088 --> 00:15:28.478 know that gets you into trouble is what you think you what you think you know 00:15:28.478 --> 00:15:31.248 for sure, you know, and that's the same. 00:15:31.248 --> 00:15:35.898 I mean, I don't want to throw my dad under the bus here because he's 00:15:35.898 --> 00:15:41.118 definitely not not not an asshole with dogs like he is, but he has the 00:15:41.118 --> 00:15:45.618 idea of what should be and but and and that's the thing he would never do. 00:15:47.943 --> 00:15:52.893 like look for anything in in terms of dog because he thinks he knows. 00:15:54.303 --> 00:15:55.483 Barbara: Yeah, yeah, you're quite right. 00:15:55.513 --> 00:15:57.453 So the quick fix, right? 00:15:57.483 --> 00:16:00.923 I mean, I know that dog trainers all over the world struggle with the 00:16:00.923 --> 00:16:06.368 quick fix mentality in Perspective clients or, you know, not even, 00:16:06.838 --> 00:16:08.658 um, and I totally see that. 00:16:08.688 --> 00:16:10.128 I mean, people want help. 00:16:10.968 --> 00:16:14.318 Yes, but it's supposed to be really quick. 00:16:14.318 --> 00:16:17.598 And most of them don't even think that it's worth paying for. 00:16:18.248 --> 00:16:18.398 Julia: So, 00:16:18.838 --> 00:16:20.548 Barbara: um, you know, just tell me. 00:16:20.988 --> 00:16:27.098 You know, give me some tips and I'll fix it and, um, and, and 00:16:27.098 --> 00:16:28.958 that's the majority for sure. 00:16:30.328 --> 00:16:32.438 Julia: But I think that's something that's common because, you know, we 00:16:32.438 --> 00:16:35.848 work with people all over the world and it's something that's common everywhere. 00:16:39.928 --> 00:16:43.588 Anke: So tell me a bit more about, uh, the programs you offer and the courses 00:16:43.618 --> 00:16:45.038 and the stuff that you've got going on. 00:16:47.618 --> 00:16:48.358 That's a very 00:16:48.378 --> 00:16:54.798 Julia: interesting question, Anke, because we're just working on a restructure 00:16:54.798 --> 00:17:01.268 and a relaunch of some of our core courses, which we are very excited about. 00:17:01.268 --> 00:17:06.648 So it's actually a really cool time to, to kind of join with us really, 00:17:07.368 --> 00:17:10.408 because that's all going to be new and shiny and exciting and stuff. 00:17:10.418 --> 00:17:11.078 So, Anke. 00:17:11.673 --> 00:17:12.913 And hopefully, you know, 00:17:13.253 --> 00:17:15.573 Barbara: being able to help more people and more dogs. 00:17:15.573 --> 00:17:22.273 And yeah, because we, we, um, it's sort of on the, after the festival, we 00:17:22.303 --> 00:17:29.293 launched, um, our flagship program and the reactivity reboot, which was, Or 00:17:29.293 --> 00:17:35.843 which is like a really comprehensive, long ish, 12 week program, you know, 00:17:35.903 --> 00:17:38.823 looking at reactivity from all angles. 00:17:38.873 --> 00:17:42.923 And we had massive, we've done versions of this before, so we have, 00:17:42.943 --> 00:17:46.213 you know, massive success with it, with the people that joined it. 00:17:46.653 --> 00:17:55.583 But we also, Realized that it, it was a big, a big step for people to take, right? 00:17:55.663 --> 00:17:55.933 Yeah. 00:17:55.933 --> 00:17:59.033 Time commitment, financial commitment. 00:17:59.043 --> 00:18:00.323 It's a big program. 00:18:00.373 --> 00:18:03.673 Not everybody wanted everything that we were offering. 00:18:04.083 --> 00:18:07.003 People's always, you know, we would, we would hear, Oh, I would love to do 00:18:07.003 --> 00:18:08.463 this, but I just can't do it right now. 00:18:09.153 --> 00:18:14.398 So then we really, um, I went back to the drawing board to think how can we, how 00:18:14.398 --> 00:18:19.078 can we do this and open it up for more people and it was, that was one of the 00:18:20.128 --> 00:18:24.618 areas where we really had to have a lot of conversations, Julia and I, because I was 00:18:25.248 --> 00:18:34.048 very much set against doing anything that didn't involve a huge amount of support. 00:18:34.308 --> 00:18:39.018 So we, you know, we teach a lot via Zoom and the community 00:18:39.038 --> 00:18:41.688 element is really important. 00:18:41.698 --> 00:18:45.288 We really love that, both of us, but we also realized that 00:18:45.288 --> 00:18:47.338 not everybody wants that. 00:18:47.678 --> 00:18:51.798 You know, there is a large number of owners who really just want to 00:18:52.598 --> 00:18:57.268 get the information and work with the information and their dog. 00:18:57.278 --> 00:19:00.208 And then if they get stuck, maybe reach out for additional support. 00:19:00.208 --> 00:19:03.298 And that meant rethinking how we're offering. 00:19:03.738 --> 00:19:05.098 Our program, isn't it, Julia? 00:19:05.528 --> 00:19:06.368 Absolutely. 00:19:06.368 --> 00:19:09.197 How is it 00:19:09.198 --> 00:19:09.808 Anke: different now? 00:19:10.378 --> 00:19:11.678 Julia: We've chunked it. 00:19:11.688 --> 00:19:19.508 So the online element is I was going to say it has been but that's not true. 00:19:19.508 --> 00:19:23.608 It is being at the moment while we're recording this 00:19:24.108 --> 00:19:25.048 Barbara: we're getting there. 00:19:25.798 --> 00:19:27.108 Julia: It's been chunked into pieces. 00:19:28.258 --> 00:19:34.313 The elements are from the reactivity reboot, plus some extra bits 00:19:34.353 --> 00:19:35.903 that we're putting in as well. 00:19:36.323 --> 00:19:39.033 Um, we're splitting down into sort of modules. 00:19:39.063 --> 00:19:41.153 We're sort of, it's like a modular sort of thing. 00:19:41.523 --> 00:19:46.713 So there'll be a foundation, um, essentials, starting point, 00:19:46.743 --> 00:19:49.873 which, you know, if you have a reactive dog, regardless, is 00:19:49.873 --> 00:19:51.113 going to be brilliant for you. 00:19:51.603 --> 00:19:54.253 And then we start focusing in on other different things. 00:19:54.683 --> 00:19:55.023 Barbara: Yeah. 00:19:55.583 --> 00:19:55.883 Julia: So 00:19:56.303 --> 00:20:00.663 Barbara: the essentials bit, I mean, a lot of people just with those lessons 00:20:00.713 --> 00:20:03.113 will have a huge amount of relief. 00:20:03.213 --> 00:20:06.593 And absolutely some dogs, that's all you have to do, right? 00:20:06.613 --> 00:20:11.273 Give them a reset, put in some strategic manage management. 00:20:12.013 --> 00:20:16.453 Check for health issues, you know, and learn to really observe your dog 00:20:16.473 --> 00:20:22.363 and be able to, um, understand their body language so that you can step 00:20:22.373 --> 00:20:24.003 in when they need support, right? 00:20:24.023 --> 00:20:27.173 And for a lot of dogs that's all, that's all you need, right? 00:20:28.373 --> 00:20:32.818 And then, but then we want to you know, Also help the people 00:20:32.818 --> 00:20:34.548 that have very specific problems. 00:20:34.558 --> 00:20:38.778 So if somebody has leash reactivity, for example, you know, then we 00:20:38.778 --> 00:20:44.088 have a whole module that is just honing in on that challenge. 00:20:44.458 --> 00:20:47.122 Or reactivity within the home. 00:20:47.123 --> 00:20:47.503 So what 00:20:47.613 --> 00:20:51.923 Anke: are the different, the most common, I mean, I hear reactivity 00:20:51.963 --> 00:20:57.273 and I'm thinking of my dogs kind of, you know, on a walk, like other 00:20:57.273 --> 00:20:59.523 dogs, you know, that's my go to. 00:20:59.523 --> 00:21:01.253 I know that there's different types. 00:21:01.253 --> 00:21:04.863 What, in your experience, are the most common ways, the way this shows up? 00:21:06.463 --> 00:21:08.253 Barbara: That is definitely the most common. 00:21:08.253 --> 00:21:09.893 That's on it, wouldn't you say? 00:21:09.893 --> 00:21:10.213 Yeah. 00:21:10.373 --> 00:21:10.623 Yeah. 00:21:10.623 --> 00:21:13.403 We did, uh, we did a couple of polls and that was definitely 00:21:13.403 --> 00:21:14.793 the number one challenge. 00:21:15.143 --> 00:21:21.818 But, You see, the thing is, you don't necessarily address it on a walk, 00:21:22.888 --> 00:21:23.218 Julia: right? 00:21:23.588 --> 00:21:26.598 Barbara: That's the whole thing with, with reactivity, that you don't 00:21:26.858 --> 00:21:29.458 fix the problem when it comes up. 00:21:29.468 --> 00:21:32.558 You have to work away from the problem. 00:21:32.558 --> 00:21:38.718 You have to, like, extract the, um, all the elements and then 00:21:39.398 --> 00:21:43.958 very gently, layer by layer, you know, work on it away from that. 00:21:43.988 --> 00:21:48.213 And very often, you, you, that's all it Right. 00:21:49.233 --> 00:21:52.693 And, uh, and then the other forms of reactivity that 00:21:52.733 --> 00:21:55.953 people come to us with or for. 00:21:56.548 --> 00:22:02.858 Might be in the house, you know, excessive biking in the house, or when the mailman 00:22:02.978 --> 00:22:08.738 comes, or the UPS truck, the I can't have people come over, my dog turns 00:22:08.738 --> 00:22:11.388 into a maniac, um, that sort of thing. 00:22:11.398 --> 00:22:15.868 Or it just drives me nuts, I can't think clearly ever, because any little noise 00:22:15.898 --> 00:22:18.698 outside my dog bikes, that sort of thing. 00:22:19.528 --> 00:22:23.148 Um I think those would be the two big ones. 00:22:23.178 --> 00:22:24.038 What do you think, Julia? 00:22:24.148 --> 00:22:25.248 Julia: Yeah, definitely. 00:22:25.248 --> 00:22:29.528 And we also have people, you know, who have issues when they have multiple dogs. 00:22:30.068 --> 00:22:30.448 Oh, yeah. 00:22:30.448 --> 00:22:32.958 And issues within the home to do with them. 00:22:33.888 --> 00:22:36.228 So that'll be another thing that we'll put on. 00:22:36.748 --> 00:22:42.678 But the other part of the program that we're going to have as a bolt on will be 00:22:42.718 --> 00:22:49.488 a course all to do with, um, the person, the human, how they can manage how they 00:22:49.498 --> 00:22:55.998 feel, um, giving them some real practical strategies, um, because we, we know, don't 00:22:56.158 --> 00:23:01.738 we, we know the In theory, how we feel is going to impact our dogs, of course, 00:23:01.738 --> 00:23:03.468 but it's all well and good saying that. 00:23:04.968 --> 00:23:08.038 But it's much more difficult to actually, you know, you can't just wave 00:23:08.038 --> 00:23:09.518 a magic wand and change how you feel. 00:23:09.518 --> 00:23:12.258 So that's something that we thought was absolutely crucial. 00:23:12.828 --> 00:23:18.103 And then the the the other part of the whole bit package that people can opt into 00:23:18.463 --> 00:23:21.613 is a bit more of a membership and that's where they're going to be able to come on 00:23:21.613 --> 00:23:25.333 to Zooms with us and get the support in the community and all that kind of stuff. 00:23:25.333 --> 00:23:27.133 So that will still be available as well. 00:23:27.603 --> 00:23:29.213 Um, so yeah, that's what we've decided. 00:23:30.173 --> 00:23:32.383 Anke: Because I think that makes a lot of sense because there's 00:23:32.383 --> 00:23:35.093 always in the end, you know, yes, the information is one piece. 00:23:35.448 --> 00:23:38.448 But then, you know, like I see it all the time. 00:23:38.448 --> 00:23:41.218 It's like, yep, you can have all the information you want, but 00:23:41.248 --> 00:23:44.468 unless you actually implement it, that's when the questions come 00:23:44.468 --> 00:23:45.848 up and like, what about this? 00:23:45.848 --> 00:23:46.568 And what about that? 00:23:46.578 --> 00:23:50.238 Like, can it all make sense if you watch a video, you know, or you 00:23:50.268 --> 00:23:53.618 read through some stuff until you actually try and do something with it. 00:23:54.008 --> 00:23:55.668 You know, I think there's always that. 00:23:56.853 --> 00:23:59.353 Julia: And the great thing when people actually are in, you know, this is one 00:23:59.353 --> 00:24:03.953 of the reasons we've always enjoyed doing, um, courses where there is that 00:24:03.963 --> 00:24:07.883 interactive element is because you get to know the people, you get to know their 00:24:07.883 --> 00:24:13.053 dogs, you get to know the patterns, um, so you can really dig into that behavior. 00:24:13.513 --> 00:24:17.033 Um, so there's a huge amount of value to be got from that as well. 00:24:17.603 --> 00:24:18.273 Yeah, I love that. 00:24:19.633 --> 00:24:19.953 Barbara: Yeah. 00:24:19.953 --> 00:24:24.633 And I, and I just, uh, what we're hoping is that we can, um, Help more people like 00:24:24.633 --> 00:24:29.813 that, you know, because not everybody needs everything and not everybody 00:24:29.863 --> 00:24:31.943 knows yet what it is that they need. 00:24:31.943 --> 00:24:35.103 So they can just start with a bit, you know, try that out. 00:24:35.133 --> 00:24:36.043 Ooh, this is great. 00:24:36.063 --> 00:24:40.073 You know, now I want to, you know, focus on another aspect. 00:24:40.103 --> 00:24:44.058 And if they, You know, and if somebody feels, oh gosh, I need more 00:24:44.058 --> 00:24:47.248 support, then they can, as Julia says, you know, you can, anytime you 00:24:47.248 --> 00:24:52.178 can join our membership and join the community and meet other, other people 00:24:52.178 --> 00:24:54.578 that have very similar challenges. 00:24:54.598 --> 00:24:58.788 And that is really the big part when it comes to overcome, you know, 00:24:58.818 --> 00:25:04.138 how many people feel guilty because of their dog's behavior for, yeah. 00:25:04.278 --> 00:25:08.198 Anke: And everybody always thinks it's just me, you know, everybody always 00:25:08.198 --> 00:25:09.412 like everybody else is the same. 00:25:09.663 --> 00:25:14.263 When got this sorted out, I ran a project, a program once, like 00:25:14.263 --> 00:25:15.853 not for dogs, a different thing. 00:25:15.863 --> 00:25:21.783 But, but I remember when I did feedback calls and I had a lot of live kind 00:25:21.783 --> 00:25:25.113 of, you know, co working calls, I come get it done, ask your staff. 00:25:25.143 --> 00:25:30.003 And the feedback I got was literally that people said, Oh my God, it was 00:25:30.003 --> 00:25:35.683 such a relief to hear other people ask stupid questions, like stupid questions. 00:25:35.683 --> 00:25:35.872 Peace. 00:25:36.033 --> 00:25:38.153 You know, I thought it was just me. 00:25:38.193 --> 00:25:40.733 I thought everybody else had this figured out. 00:25:40.793 --> 00:25:44.993 I thought I was the only one who was like overwhelmed and didn't kind of 00:25:45.393 --> 00:25:48.023 find, find out how it all fit together. 00:25:48.033 --> 00:25:50.973 It's that be not being alone with something. 00:25:50.973 --> 00:25:52.633 I think that's, that's big. 00:25:52.923 --> 00:25:53.973 Yeah, totally. 00:25:54.063 --> 00:25:54.993 Barbara: Yeah, that's huge. 00:25:54.993 --> 00:25:56.913 We hear that time and again. 00:25:58.173 --> 00:25:58.423 Absolutely. 00:25:58.673 --> 00:26:04.063 Anke: So where can people go and connect with you, find out about the new program, 00:26:04.073 --> 00:26:08.003 the one you've got, the community and, you know, and even the festival 00:26:08.003 --> 00:26:09.083 though, because that was excellent. 00:26:09.093 --> 00:26:12.893 So definitely go check that out if you haven't seen it yet. 00:26:13.913 --> 00:26:19.933 Julia: So to access the festival, um, and you know, any of our paid courses 00:26:19.933 --> 00:26:22.723 as well, um, it's a bit of a mouthful. 00:26:22.763 --> 00:26:24.773 You go to www. 00:26:24.773 --> 00:26:26.872 Anke: barking 00:26:26.873 --> 00:26:26.953 Julia: festival. 00:26:26.953 --> 00:26:27.352 org. 00:26:27.933 --> 00:26:28.473 Up 00:26:31.258 --> 00:26:33.678 the-write-tree.com 00:26:35.353 --> 00:26:36.278 and he said dash again. 00:26:37.183 --> 00:26:40.783 So that's the website and you can get onto, as I say, you can 00:26:40.783 --> 00:26:42.193 get onto the festival there. 00:26:42.613 --> 00:26:45.823 Um, and if you sign up for the, first of all, you'll be given sent 00:26:45.823 --> 00:26:49.063 links so that you can get onto the Facebook group and stuff as well. 00:26:49.423 --> 00:26:51.048 Um, you can go on to fest. 00:26:52.368 --> 00:26:52.968 What's the word? 00:26:53.308 --> 00:26:54.808 To Facebook as well. 00:26:55.188 --> 00:27:01.748 Um, and if you just search on Facebook for Barking Up The Right Tree Reactive 00:27:01.748 --> 00:27:04.808 Dog Training Community That'll be us. 00:27:05.348 --> 00:27:07.418 Just, just request to be, to be let in. 00:27:07.448 --> 00:27:10.748 Now the great thing on the Facebook group, as well as the fact that it 00:27:10.768 --> 00:27:14.767 is probably the most supportive dog training group I've ever been in 00:27:14.958 --> 00:27:16.848 I've been a member of Nevermind Run. 00:27:16.948 --> 00:27:18.808 We've got some awesome members. 00:27:19.208 --> 00:27:25.028 Um, but we also, we do a weekly Facebook live where we tackle 00:27:25.038 --> 00:27:27.508 various, you know, specific topics. 00:27:27.798 --> 00:27:31.488 Um, but we also answer people's questions as well during the lives. 00:27:31.568 --> 00:27:34.568 So, um, so people can get a little bit of support that way as well. 00:27:35.168 --> 00:27:37.488 Um, and there's, there's loads of training tips in there. 00:27:38.773 --> 00:27:41.743 Um, you know, you get weekly training tips, uh, share a little 00:27:41.773 --> 00:27:46.383 bit about us and our journeys with our dogs, um, and that kind of thing. 00:27:46.383 --> 00:27:47.552 So, yeah, awesome. 00:27:47.553 --> 00:27:47.943 Awesome. 00:27:48.163 --> 00:27:48.793 Well, we're obviously 00:27:48.793 --> 00:27:51.033 Anke: going to pop the, you don't have to remember all of that. 00:27:51.033 --> 00:27:53.473 We're going to pop the link and it's like wherever you're watching below 00:27:53.473 --> 00:27:56.703 the video in the show notes, if you're listening to the podcast, so 00:27:57.113 --> 00:27:58.563 it's not going to be hard to find. 00:27:58.563 --> 00:27:59.803 So thank you so much. 00:28:00.143 --> 00:28:00.613 This was. 00:28:00.813 --> 00:28:01.403 Fabulous. 00:28:01.443 --> 00:28:06.023 And, um, yeah, like let's help a whole bunch of people with, with 00:28:06.053 --> 00:28:09.113 reactive dogs, because everybody deserves better than that. 00:28:09.643 --> 00:28:10.463 Absolutely. 00:28:10.463 --> 00:28:12.963 Barbara: The more people we can help, the happier we will become. 00:28:12.973 --> 00:28:13.723 Oh, the merrier. 00:28:13.773 --> 00:28:14.163 Yep. 00:28:14.553 --> 00:28:15.733 Thank you so much Anke. 00:28:15.733 --> 00:28:17.583 It's been a real, real fun. 00:28:17.613 --> 00:28:18.193 Thank you. 00:28:18.363 --> 00:28:18.643 Yes. 00:28:18.653 --> 00:28:19.578 Thanks Anke. 00:28:21.126 --> 00:28:22.356 Thanks so much for listening. 00:28:22.876 --> 00:28:27.176 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:28:27.276 --> 00:28:29.056 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:28:29.846 --> 00:28:33.336 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:28:33.766 --> 00:28:39.336 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:28:39.436 --> 00:28:41.806 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:28:41.806 --> 00:28:45.536 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:28:45.956 --> 00:28:47.096 I'd love an introduction. 00:28:47.576 --> 00:28:49.406 Email me at Anke. 00:28:49.676 --> 00:28:53.911 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.