WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.486 --> 00:00:03.496 Matt: James Kemp, welcome to the WP Minute. 00:00:04.235 --> 00:00:04.955 James Kemp: Thank you very much. 00:00:04.955 --> 00:00:05.735 Thank you for having me. 00:00:06.896 --> 00:00:09.866 Matt: you and I, we've seen each other in passing, right? 00:00:09.866 --> 00:00:12.626 I think on Twitter and post status and other areas. 00:00:12.626 --> 00:00:16.496 This is gonna be a, a first time conversation, lots to get into. 00:00:16.896 --> 00:00:20.196 this is not a gotcha you podcast by any stretch of the imagination, 00:00:20.196 --> 00:00:23.976 but I do want to get stuck into some of the things around automatic 00:00:23.976 --> 00:00:25.896 and, WordPress and WooCommerce. 00:00:25.896 --> 00:00:28.176 But for the folks that don't know. 00:00:28.391 --> 00:00:29.261 Who you are. 00:00:29.511 --> 00:00:32.811 what's your storied tale in WordPress? 00:00:32.816 --> 00:00:36.111 I, I, I always knew you as a guy that was like launching a bunch of 00:00:36.111 --> 00:00:38.661 products, but now you're at Woo. 00:00:39.441 --> 00:00:40.881 us the picture of James. 00:00:41.100 --> 00:00:42.870 James Kemp: Yeah, I think you summarized it pretty well. 00:00:42.970 --> 00:00:43.000 Matt: I. 00:00:43.728 --> 00:00:48.268 James Kemp: yeah, always, always been keen to kind of dive in and build stuff. 00:00:49.168 --> 00:00:50.158 since. 00:00:50.653 --> 00:00:51.523 2009. 00:00:51.583 --> 00:00:53.383 We'll, we'll go back a fair bit. 00:00:54.023 --> 00:00:58.043 2009 I got like a web design job at an agency. 00:00:58.143 --> 00:01:00.993 we started using WordPress at that point. 00:01:01.803 --> 00:01:03.453 WooCommerce wasn't really a thing back then. 00:01:03.643 --> 00:01:07.543 I think JO Shop may not have even been a thing back then. 00:01:08.423 --> 00:01:10.463 but Magento was, and we used Magento a lot. 00:01:11.373 --> 00:01:13.473 and I, I spent some time. 00:01:14.433 --> 00:01:18.583 My, my first kind of plugin, experience was building a plugin to 00:01:18.583 --> 00:01:21.343 integrate Magento into WordPress. 00:01:21.833 --> 00:01:26.133 so you could bring across like the cart data and, the navigation and stuff from, 00:01:26.133 --> 00:01:31.413 from Magento to kind of make the, the experience of building a Magento site with 00:01:31.413 --> 00:01:34.813 a content managed, experience as well. 00:01:35.233 --> 00:01:37.303 More, simple, more cohesive. 00:01:38.323 --> 00:01:38.833 So I did that. 00:01:38.833 --> 00:01:40.543 I, I built a plugin back then. 00:01:40.623 --> 00:01:45.333 like I say, that was my first experience dabbling in the, the world of WordPress 00:01:45.333 --> 00:01:47.283 and, and the plugin ecosystem. 00:01:47.853 --> 00:01:53.953 which I believe was quite early on, like comparatively to, to now, where 00:01:53.953 --> 00:01:55.088 there's a plugin for everything. 00:01:55.088 --> 00:01:58.878 Back then there, there wasn't really, too many plugins and that there 00:01:58.878 --> 00:02:02.238 definitely wasn't an environment of. 00:02:02.338 --> 00:02:06.948 bigger plugins that were like solutions, like, like lifter, 00:02:06.948 --> 00:02:08.448 LMS and like that kind of thing. 00:02:08.448 --> 00:02:11.898 Give Wp you know, that there weren't these like solution based products. 00:02:11.898 --> 00:02:16.908 It was, it was very much, utility based plugins, which is the world 00:02:16.913 --> 00:02:20.568 that, that I kind of went into and, and, you know, spent my time in. 00:02:20.628 --> 00:02:22.998 Was, was these utility based products. 00:02:24.328 --> 00:02:25.378 so after some time. 00:02:26.323 --> 00:02:30.233 WooCommerce came about, I think it was 2011, I built my first 00:02:30.653 --> 00:02:35.363 WooCommerce plugin, which was called multiple Images per Variation. 00:02:36.123 --> 00:02:37.263 so very like. 00:02:37.983 --> 00:02:40.113 Feature relevant plugin name. 00:02:40.203 --> 00:02:42.483 I wasn't particularly, a marketer back then. 00:02:43.713 --> 00:02:45.633 started selling that on Code Canyon. 00:02:45.793 --> 00:02:50.393 and then just kind of doubled down on the, the WooCommerce side of things, and, 00:02:50.393 --> 00:02:54.773 and built a ton of, you know, different utility style WooCommerce plugins. 00:02:54.883 --> 00:02:58.853 that one was renamed as Woo Thumbs, which is still around today. 00:03:00.203 --> 00:03:04.433 I eventually like, stopped doing anything except WooCommerce plugins. 00:03:04.583 --> 00:03:05.933 And I think 00:03:07.943 --> 00:03:16.413 by maybe 2017, I decided to stop what I was doing elsewhere, which was working, 00:03:16.923 --> 00:03:20.933 running my own agency with a friend, or a colleague at the time, I should 00:03:20.933 --> 00:03:25.743 say, building websites for people and, you know, using WooCommerce, using 00:03:25.743 --> 00:03:27.773 WordPress, not really using Magento. 00:03:27.773 --> 00:03:27.833 I, I. 00:03:28.778 --> 00:03:30.038 Got out of that as soon as I could. 00:03:30.968 --> 00:03:35.948 and yeah, that, that allowed me, the, the agency side of things to build 00:03:35.948 --> 00:03:40.088 up a collection of products that, that I had built, you know, because 00:03:40.148 --> 00:03:42.038 clients needed that functionality. 00:03:42.758 --> 00:03:47.108 and it got to a point where I, I wasn't particularly enjoying the client work, 00:03:48.008 --> 00:03:49.478 but I was enjoying the product work. 00:03:49.478 --> 00:03:53.018 So I rebranded, as iconic iconic wp.com. 00:03:53.953 --> 00:03:57.913 released all the plugins over there, you know, you know, created product pages 00:03:57.913 --> 00:03:59.563 and, and, and all that kind of stuff. 00:03:59.593 --> 00:04:03.133 changed it from being under my own name to, to being iconic. 00:04:03.973 --> 00:04:06.673 shifted off of Co Canyon onto FIUs. 00:04:07.603 --> 00:04:13.333 I think I was one of the, the first FIUs users, or one of the, the first 00:04:13.333 --> 00:04:15.043 successful FIUs users, I guess. 00:04:15.803 --> 00:04:18.293 and then in 2021. 00:04:18.848 --> 00:04:24.258 Iconic was acquired by Liquid Web Stellar wp, where it still resides 00:04:24.258 --> 00:04:29.158 today with, I believe all of my team that were also acquired at the time, 00:04:29.208 --> 00:04:30.678 are still over there working on it. 00:04:31.668 --> 00:04:36.498 and I worked there for a couple of years and then I reached out to Paul, 00:04:36.498 --> 00:04:40.768 who was the, the CEO of WooCommerce at the time, and just said, you 00:04:40.768 --> 00:04:43.168 know, I, I feel like I've taken. 00:04:43.798 --> 00:04:45.868 Iconic as far as I can take it. 00:04:46.018 --> 00:04:50.398 with it being utility based, you know, that it's not, it's not an 00:04:50.398 --> 00:04:56.668 easy sell, particularly in, in the, the market as of today where there's 00:04:56.668 --> 00:04:59.998 so much competition for, for all of these utility based products. 00:05:00.698 --> 00:05:04.958 but I have like a very deep understanding of WooCommerce and also, you know, 00:05:04.958 --> 00:05:08.978 what merchants and what clients are actually looking for from. 00:05:09.728 --> 00:05:10.748 WooCommerce site. 00:05:11.888 --> 00:05:15.548 and I just said, you know, is there any role there that would suit me? 00:05:15.678 --> 00:05:22.788 and we, we probably discussed it for maybe a year on and off. 00:05:23.298 --> 00:05:29.358 I met with Beau, who is now the, the CEO of WooCommerce, at WordCamp 00:05:32.328 --> 00:05:33.558 Athens, maybe. 00:05:34.323 --> 00:05:34.653 Yeah. 00:05:35.068 --> 00:05:37.263 A, a word Camp Europe, I can't recall which one. 00:05:38.403 --> 00:05:41.493 and we had a chat about what I could do, and then eventually 00:05:41.493 --> 00:05:43.393 we settled on, product manager. 00:05:44.293 --> 00:05:48.293 So I joined WooCommerce as a product manager after two years of, or 00:05:48.293 --> 00:05:51.413 two years after my acquisition, acquisition with Stellar. 00:05:52.493 --> 00:05:57.653 and after about a year of being at WooCommerce, I've, so I've been there. 00:05:58.758 --> 00:06:01.823 Maybe a year and a half, just over a year and a half now. 00:06:02.623 --> 00:06:07.033 my role was shifted from product manager where I was focused on like 00:06:07.033 --> 00:06:11.693 one specific thing, which for me was order management, to now being core 00:06:11.693 --> 00:06:18.353 product manager, which means I kind of touch all sorts of different areas of 00:06:18.713 --> 00:06:23.143 WooCommerce and, and try and have an impact, on what the overall product. 00:06:23.708 --> 00:06:26.318 is, you know, what we include, what we don't include. 00:06:27.068 --> 00:06:31.148 and I work alongside the other product managers that we have, and 00:06:31.148 --> 00:06:32.633 that is essentially my life story. 00:06:34.415 --> 00:06:35.825 Matt: It's a fantastic life story, by the way. 00:06:36.333 --> 00:06:37.003 James Kemp: Thank very much. 00:06:38.855 --> 00:06:42.645 Matt: when I say the phrase, 800 pound gorilla in the room, 00:06:42.645 --> 00:06:44.145 that doesn't get any attention. 00:06:45.965 --> 00:06:48.785 How does that make you feel about WooCommerce? 00:06:48.785 --> 00:06:52.665 And let me frame it and we will talk, more deeply about culture 00:06:52.665 --> 00:06:54.495 and, and the current vibe of things. 00:06:54.885 --> 00:06:59.265 But I've often looked at WooCommerce as that 800 pound 00:06:59.265 --> 00:07:01.540 gorilla in the room from the 00:07:03.735 --> 00:07:09.165 looking in, especially when you compare it to say, a more commercialized 00:07:10.095 --> 00:07:12.945 Shopify, it's easy to wonder like. 00:07:14.310 --> 00:07:18.300 Why aren't we seeing more happen with, with Woo 00:07:20.970 --> 00:07:26.370 its, you know, core offering and its marketing and it's just overall 00:07:26.460 --> 00:07:34.950 consumer appeal like a Shopify and I even argue a square space 'cause 00:07:34.950 --> 00:07:39.480 they often lean into the e-commerce side, 800 pound gorilla in the room. 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:41.250 That doesn't get the attention. 00:07:41.670 --> 00:07:42.390 Your thoughts? 00:07:44.443 --> 00:07:47.533 James Kemp: I have a variety of thoughts on the subject. 00:07:47.653 --> 00:07:54.343 I personally believe that the audience of WooCommerce versus something like 00:07:54.343 --> 00:07:57.703 Shopify or Wix is slightly different. 00:07:57.793 --> 00:08:02.783 I think Shopify, if they do marketing, they're targeting the merchant. 00:08:03.518 --> 00:08:08.918 And, you know, you can, you can jump in, you can build a site very quickly. 00:08:09.018 --> 00:08:12.493 you, you can, you know, you just sign up and, and then your site is 00:08:12.493 --> 00:08:13.843 kind of there to start building. 00:08:14.833 --> 00:08:20.353 WooCommerce has a challenge in that respect, where if the, the merchant, 00:08:20.413 --> 00:08:24.583 if we were targeting the same, you know, type of customer, needs to make 00:08:24.583 --> 00:08:29.473 a decision before they've even touched WooCommerce, they have to decide. 00:08:30.433 --> 00:08:31.393 Where they're gonna host it. 00:08:31.813 --> 00:08:34.573 They have to figure out what hosting is, that they probably don't even, 00:08:34.753 --> 00:08:38.053 you know, have that kind of technical understanding of what that means. 00:08:38.953 --> 00:08:44.023 they probably need to think about a domain name before they've even spun anything up. 00:08:44.693 --> 00:08:50.333 and I think that's a challenge, and I think that is a challenge when it 00:08:50.333 --> 00:08:52.133 comes to marketing as well, because. 00:08:53.878 --> 00:08:56.663 It's, it's hard to direct them somewhere. 00:08:56.843 --> 00:08:59.663 You know, we can direct 'em to a landing page, but then they still 00:09:00.503 --> 00:09:05.013 have to make this dec decision on, you know, how am I gonna get started? 00:09:05.673 --> 00:09:09.393 And that's something I, I've brought up quite a lot recently, and I think's 00:09:09.393 --> 00:09:16.353 something that we plan to tackle is to, right now we offer, like if you go 00:09:16.353 --> 00:09:19.213 to start, on the WooCommerce website. 00:09:20.203 --> 00:09:23.563 You kind of get presented with these different hosts that we partner with. 00:09:24.683 --> 00:09:28.853 but to the person looking like all you see is the host name, like you don't know why 00:09:28.853 --> 00:09:31.373 you would choose whichever one you go for. 00:09:32.303 --> 00:09:38.243 and that's, I think, a touch point that we need to really focus on and make very 00:09:38.243 --> 00:09:42.573 smooth, like, and it can still be, you know, fair across the different hosts 00:09:42.573 --> 00:09:45.813 where maybe there's some kind of pre. 00:09:46.488 --> 00:09:50.148 survey or like pre-questions that they populate that then narrow 00:09:50.148 --> 00:09:53.818 them down to a specific host, which they can then click a button and it 00:09:53.818 --> 00:09:56.698 spins up a, a working WooCommerce. 00:09:58.118 --> 00:09:59.228 so that's one of the issues. 00:09:59.228 --> 00:10:06.128 I think another potential issue is with something like WooCommerce, there's 00:10:06.128 --> 00:10:09.548 also learning that has to happen. 00:10:10.253 --> 00:10:13.493 to kind of learn WordPress, you're not just learning WooCommerce. 00:10:13.493 --> 00:10:15.323 You need to understand how WordPress works. 00:10:16.103 --> 00:10:18.443 and on these closed systems, you don't have that issue. 00:10:18.443 --> 00:10:23.003 Like they, they can very much tailor it, to be the same for everyone. 00:10:23.823 --> 00:10:29.253 and the third issue that we have is every environment can be completely different. 00:10:30.543 --> 00:10:32.283 You know, they could have a different set of plugins, they 00:10:32.283 --> 00:10:33.423 could have different hosting. 00:10:34.048 --> 00:10:38.158 the host themselves can, you know, modify how WordPress and 00:10:38.638 --> 00:10:39.958 WooCommerce look once it's installed. 00:10:41.008 --> 00:10:45.058 which is a challenge and I dunno whether that answers all of your questions, 00:10:45.058 --> 00:10:49.618 but those are like issues that I see, that make marketing harder for us. 00:10:50.288 --> 00:10:54.483 but I will say that marketing, since obviously you saw the, the 00:10:54.483 --> 00:10:56.343 rebrand that we, we did recently. 00:10:57.288 --> 00:11:03.498 it's like a stage one of, of our new marketing, efforts and we have some 00:11:03.618 --> 00:11:08.568 really nice, like, really modern looking marketing efforts that are, are gonna be 00:11:08.568 --> 00:11:10.053 rolling out over the course of this year. 00:11:11.680 --> 00:11:12.775 Matt: I do like the rebrand. 00:11:13.705 --> 00:11:15.505 I think the, the logo is great. 00:11:15.505 --> 00:11:16.735 It does, it does look really good. 00:11:16.735 --> 00:11:16.765 I. 00:11:17.930 --> 00:11:22.100 One of the predictions I made at the start of the year, of course off the 00:11:22.100 --> 00:11:27.630 heels of a lot of the WordPress, or automatic V versus WP engine drama was 00:11:27.630 --> 00:11:33.960 that, I think in order for automatic to really perform and compete, that 00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:36.240 they, things would have to happen. 00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:38.790 One, they would have to cut the fat 00:11:41.175 --> 00:11:47.205 It's a poorly chosen phrase after, a 16% roughly layoff of automatic employees. 00:11:48.495 --> 00:11:55.245 But I think that automatic just has a ton of products, Like 00:11:55.245 --> 00:11:57.705 when you look@wordpress.com, 00:12:00.015 --> 00:12:03.745 you know, investing time into WordPress core, when that was a thing. 00:12:04.750 --> 00:12:09.100 Simple note, Tumblr video press, jet pack, like, you know, the, the list goes on. 00:12:09.550 --> 00:12:15.100 WooCommerce of course, and that was my other thing was to other prediction 00:12:15.100 --> 00:12:20.010 was like they, they, they have to get rid of, all these products that 00:12:20.010 --> 00:12:23.160 are just not part of that experience. 00:12:23.160 --> 00:12:27.630 The experience you just mentioned, which was, listen, the customer has to 00:12:27.720 --> 00:12:30.030 understand all this technical overhead. 00:12:31.065 --> 00:12:34.395 They have to understand Woo Commerce, and oh, by, by the way, because 00:12:34.395 --> 00:12:37.335 they're in Woo Commerce, they're also having to learn this WordPress thing. 00:12:38.235 --> 00:12:39.795 So there's all these particular challenges. 00:12:41.775 --> 00:12:47.295 My other prediction is that in order for Automatic to Succeed as well 00:12:47.505 --> 00:12:53.115 throughout this year, the only way I say the only, but the only way 00:12:53.835 --> 00:12:57.075 achieve that to make wordpress.com 00:12:57.075 --> 00:12:57.345 or 00:13:00.045 --> 00:13:01.425 A better experience, 00:13:03.465 --> 00:13:10.635 that hosted experience by automatic air quotes will be the West best way to 00:13:10.635 --> 00:13:13.005 experience WordPress and WooCommerce. 00:13:14.475 --> 00:13:19.575 Do you think that is a direction we're headed in where has the best 00:13:19.575 --> 00:13:23.505 experience, whatever that might be, and then open source world. 00:13:23.865 --> 00:13:27.435 We can just do whatever we want over here in the wild West, you know, third 00:13:27.435 --> 00:13:28.965 party ecosystem, et cetera, et cetera. 00:13:29.235 --> 00:13:33.525 But maybe the core initiative is to make the experience better at automatic. 00:13:35.053 --> 00:13:39.373 James Kemp: Yeah, I completely agree that that should be the case. 00:13:39.373 --> 00:13:43.933 Like, you know, if you spin up a a WordPress site on wordpress.com, 00:13:44.023 --> 00:13:47.083 that should be like, this is the prime example of WordPress. 00:13:47.083 --> 00:13:47.143 I. 00:13:47.578 --> 00:13:48.538 At its finest. 00:13:49.678 --> 00:13:55.018 and I think there is some work that is currently undergoing to, to make 00:13:55.018 --> 00:13:57.358 that the case, to kind of bring.com 00:13:57.358 --> 00:14:00.948 back to what WordPress is, because they have like their 00:14:00.948 --> 00:14:04.658 own admin experience, on on.com 00:14:04.658 --> 00:14:07.718 that I guess sat on top of WordPress. 00:14:08.648 --> 00:14:10.508 so yeah, there's definitely work happening there. 00:14:10.568 --> 00:14:15.108 And we had, We were expressed for a while, which was meant to be there and 00:14:15.108 --> 00:14:20.008 also acted, I would say more directly as a competitor to, you know, Shopify. 00:14:20.668 --> 00:14:23.158 The, the, the platform. 00:14:23.158 --> 00:14:27.408 There was a lot, closer in, in spec in, you know, how it, how it 00:14:27.408 --> 00:14:31.768 functioned to what Shopify, and other providers, you know, offered. 00:14:33.188 --> 00:14:33.878 obviously that. 00:14:35.068 --> 00:14:38.753 It was wound down a bit and kind of bundled into this, 00:14:38.803 --> 00:14:40.753 commerce package on.com, 00:14:41.533 --> 00:14:45.823 which I think already existed, but I, I think they took some of what Woo 00:14:45.823 --> 00:14:47.773 Express was and put it into that package. 00:14:48.733 --> 00:14:52.843 I would like to see that kind of come back a bit. 00:14:52.933 --> 00:14:55.933 And I think the reason for that winding down made sense. 00:14:56.833 --> 00:14:59.233 The, the people working on that were. 00:14:59.308 --> 00:15:03.148 WooCommerce developers, you know, they, they were part of the WooCommerce team. 00:15:03.958 --> 00:15:10.238 and the idea of winding that down was that we didn't want to be, as a, as a 00:15:10.238 --> 00:15:14.168 company, as WooCommerce, we didn't want to be building stuff that only benefited 00:15:14.198 --> 00:15:17.738 us, you know, within WooCommerce core. 00:15:17.738 --> 00:15:21.278 Like if we're building stuff that that could benefit everyone, then 00:15:21.278 --> 00:15:23.378 we want to do that in, in a more. 00:15:24.003 --> 00:15:28.743 global way and, and that's, you know, part of this Be the host help, the host 00:15:28.743 --> 00:15:33.483 stuff that, I can't remember when it came out, but sometime last year, that was 00:15:33.483 --> 00:15:38.133 like a shift in thinking that anything we're building should be able to benefit 00:15:38.463 --> 00:15:40.563 any host and not just Woo Express. 00:15:41.583 --> 00:15:48.693 but I also think, and I also agree, that we should have as a company, as automatic. 00:15:49.293 --> 00:15:53.403 The best, you know, managed solution of WooCommerce specifically. 00:15:54.423 --> 00:15:57.064 whether that comes back or not, I'm not sure, but I, I 00:15:57.069 --> 00:15:58.263 personally would like to see it. 00:16:01.355 --> 00:16:02.765 Matt: Automatic needs to survive. 00:16:02.765 --> 00:16:06.065 It needs to be a healthy company regardless of what 00:16:06.095 --> 00:16:07.745 any of the critics might say. 00:16:08.195 --> 00:16:11.735 I don't envy the position of being an aian these days. 00:16:11.765 --> 00:16:16.025 It must be a little tough to get some criticism, especially when it's 00:16:16.025 --> 00:16:19.055 stuff that's sort of like outside of, out, outside of your control and. 00:16:20.375 --> 00:16:23.345 Largely not based on like the product experience. 00:16:23.345 --> 00:16:26.705 I mean, I think everybody complains about every product ever made. 00:16:26.765 --> 00:16:30.405 Like this is, you know, and especially if you're on Twitter, you know, you're, 00:16:30.405 --> 00:16:33.645 you're always gonna see, you know, complaints about a product, right? 00:16:33.645 --> 00:16:35.385 It, it's just a never ending thing, right? 00:16:35.385 --> 00:16:37.035 I, I work at Gravity Forms fulltime. 00:16:37.375 --> 00:16:40.705 we've been doing this now for 15 years and we get complaints every single day. 00:16:41.065 --> 00:16:42.775 So it's like, like I totally get it. 00:16:43.585 --> 00:16:44.785 but the. 00:16:45.640 --> 00:16:47.200 But how is the culture, right? 00:16:47.230 --> 00:16:48.160 How is the culture? 00:16:48.190 --> 00:16:50.860 How do you feel reporting for duty? 00:16:51.020 --> 00:16:53.840 every day under the Woo brand, 00:16:56.048 --> 00:16:59.318 James Kemp: Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, we've, we've got that. 00:17:00.818 --> 00:17:03.758 WP Engine thing kind of hanging over us. 00:17:03.858 --> 00:17:08.508 there's, there's negative connotations from that on, on Twitter, but 00:17:08.508 --> 00:17:13.518 honestly to, to me personally, there's not that much negative. 00:17:13.518 --> 00:17:18.348 And I, I think because most of the people that I interact with on 00:17:18.348 --> 00:17:22.128 Twitter were aware of my journey, you know, up until that point, they're 00:17:22.128 --> 00:17:23.988 kind of aware of me as a person. 00:17:24.718 --> 00:17:26.398 has helped, but I have seen. 00:17:27.523 --> 00:17:30.763 Other people who maybe don't have that history, not, you 00:17:30.763 --> 00:17:32.683 know, have as good of experience. 00:17:33.413 --> 00:17:34.013 so we've got that. 00:17:34.013 --> 00:17:37.473 We've also got the, the layoffs that you mentioned, as of last 00:17:37.473 --> 00:17:42.003 week I think it was, which has definitely had an impact on people. 00:17:44.403 --> 00:17:48.403 But leaving them aside, which is, you know, tricky. 00:17:49.013 --> 00:17:52.433 I, I personally love the experience. 00:17:52.463 --> 00:17:58.533 you know, the, the, the people I work with are all deeply, invested in making 00:17:58.533 --> 00:18:00.033 WooCommerce as good as it can be. 00:18:00.903 --> 00:18:04.473 there's, there's tons of collaboration like across. 00:18:04.863 --> 00:18:08.773 The product team, which, you know, I'm, I'm primarily in, engineering, 00:18:08.773 --> 00:18:11.473 design, marketing, developer advocacy. 00:18:11.473 --> 00:18:14.923 Like, it, it feels very tight knit. 00:18:15.703 --> 00:18:18.613 but obviously these things, these things have, have an impact. 00:18:18.793 --> 00:18:24.403 and it's typical, most impactful when they've just happened. 00:18:25.093 --> 00:18:26.803 and I'm hoping that. 00:18:26.908 --> 00:18:33.478 it leads to us being able to put things out more quickly or even, you 00:18:33.478 --> 00:18:39.478 know, focus on priorities more easily rather than trying to do everything 00:18:39.988 --> 00:18:43.588 we have to, you know, really think about what the priorities are. 00:18:44.308 --> 00:18:46.858 and we've, we've just gotta make the best of that situation. 00:18:46.863 --> 00:18:50.068 Like you say, I think automatic is a. 00:18:51.328 --> 00:18:55.618 Is a big asset to the WordPress and, and obviously WooCommerce space. 00:18:56.358 --> 00:18:57.888 and we need to make sure that thrives. 00:18:58.338 --> 00:19:04.488 And if this is the way to do that, then I, I hope it works. 00:19:04.488 --> 00:19:09.528 But yeah, for, for me personally, like the satisfaction of working on, on 00:19:09.528 --> 00:19:14.898 WooCommerce when it's the stuff that I'm putting in or like advocating for within 00:19:15.108 --> 00:19:18.048 WooCommerce is impacting so many people. 00:19:18.348 --> 00:19:21.378 Which is something that I could never really do prior to this. 00:19:21.438 --> 00:19:25.818 You know, I could impact our own customers, but the, the kind of scope 00:19:25.818 --> 00:19:30.438 of people that interact with stuff that I've had a say in or, or that I 00:19:30.438 --> 00:19:33.228 can advocate for is, is much larger. 00:19:34.428 --> 00:19:36.798 and that's really, you know, what I want to do. 00:19:36.798 --> 00:19:40.218 Like, I want to make this product as good as it can be. 00:19:41.268 --> 00:19:44.508 And to do that, you know, I, I listen to a lot of people. 00:19:44.508 --> 00:19:46.188 I do a lot of research. 00:19:46.338 --> 00:19:51.568 I physically like ask the questions, and, and try and bring a lot of 00:19:51.568 --> 00:19:54.688 stuff that was previously behind the scenes, you know, out into the, 00:19:54.688 --> 00:19:56.248 into the public for people to see. 00:19:57.188 --> 00:20:00.053 and I, I love doing it, so I hope I can continue to do it. 00:20:01.023 --> 00:20:04.983 but yeah, it's, it's challenging times and we just have to. 00:20:05.433 --> 00:20:07.593 Do the best with, with what we've got. 00:20:08.403 --> 00:20:16.323 I tend to stay out of the, you know, the discourse online on these topics, 00:20:17.353 --> 00:20:18.733 because I don't think it adds anything. 00:20:18.733 --> 00:20:20.563 Like there's, there's nothing I can do about it. 00:20:20.863 --> 00:20:26.088 all I can do is just make sure WooCommerce is as good as it can be. 00:20:26.088 --> 00:20:29.148 And you know, that we're, we're focusing on stuff that people actually want. 00:20:30.058 --> 00:20:31.648 and listen to what people are saying. 00:20:31.648 --> 00:20:31.828 So. 00:20:33.705 --> 00:20:36.465 Matt: There's nothing a lot of critics can do about it, just that either. 00:20:36.465 --> 00:20:38.775 But they, but, but they also, weigh in. 00:20:38.775 --> 00:20:40.425 But hey, that's, that's the internet for you. 00:20:40.775 --> 00:20:44.235 pop culture, the Doge effect, it's really affecting, everyone. 00:20:44.235 --> 00:20:49.370 And, and you know, when, know, lose, use that term loosely because 00:20:49.550 --> 00:20:53.465 it, it gets, thrown around as something that is, is bad, but. 00:20:54.845 --> 00:21:00.995 Cutting the fat, optimizing what have you, for, any organization 00:21:00.995 --> 00:21:03.935 to, to have a moment to reflect. 00:21:03.935 --> 00:21:05.345 It's not a, a clean thing. 00:21:05.345 --> 00:21:06.245 It's never a clean thing. 00:21:06.245 --> 00:21:08.345 It's never an easy thing, and, and it's something that must be done. 00:21:08.345 --> 00:21:13.265 I was on the way here to the office listening to, I also follow 00:21:13.265 --> 00:21:17.045 the podcast industry fairly, deeply like I do with WordPress. 00:21:17.810 --> 00:21:21.920 And I was listening to some, real high level, ad executives talking 00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:26.420 about sponsorship on podcasts and by sponsorships on podcasts. 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:29.840 Certainly not this podcast, but the ones that like, are made by celebrities, 00:21:29.840 --> 00:21:31.910 athletes, you know, news personalities, et 00:21:32.208 --> 00:21:32.498 James Kemp: Yeah. 00:21:33.020 --> 00:21:35.810 Matt: And they were talking about host red ads, and that's when the host 00:21:35.900 --> 00:21:39.650 reads an ad and they're talking about how those are the best ads, obviously. 00:21:41.150 --> 00:21:46.630 And, you know, for some sales executive out there who is selling this ad spot 00:21:46.630 --> 00:21:52.360 on whomever celebrity podcast it is, they were saying it took 80 touchpoint 00:21:52.840 --> 00:21:57.220 to get from when the, when the buyer from a brand, let's say WooCommerce 00:21:57.220 --> 00:21:59.140 says, I want Kevin Hart to read. 00:22:01.075 --> 00:22:06.445 The WooCommerce ad on his podcast, it took 80 touch points to get that done right. 00:22:06.445 --> 00:22:09.745 And they were just like, why does it take that much? 00:22:09.775 --> 00:22:13.345 And they're having like this real deep conversation about how they 00:22:13.345 --> 00:22:16.075 need technology to solve this. 00:22:16.285 --> 00:22:19.675 And I'm like, technology, you get the ad. 00:22:20.050 --> 00:22:24.220 The guy says, yes, he reads the ad, you listen. 00:22:24.310 --> 00:22:27.070 That's it, you know, very easy. 00:22:27.410 --> 00:22:32.600 but there's always these complexities that come into play with big organizations, 00:22:33.380 --> 00:22:36.620 which, which brings me to one of Woo's competitors, again, Shopify. 00:22:36.670 --> 00:22:42.230 also in the news air quotes, for, you know, talking about embracing ai. 00:22:42.590 --> 00:22:48.130 Paraphrasing Toby put out his, social media post that look, just like 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:51.420 mul, Matt Mullenweg had said, a few years ago, we gotta learn AI deeply. 00:22:51.420 --> 00:22:53.040 We gotta start to embrace this stuff. 00:22:53.100 --> 00:22:59.970 I've seen automations more publicly talking about ai, doing things with ai. 00:22:59.970 --> 00:23:03.230 My friend Rich Tabor, quite often, he and I have a little chatter back 00:23:03.230 --> 00:23:05.300 and forth on Twitter about using ai. 00:23:07.970 --> 00:23:09.290 I have been using ai. 00:23:10.130 --> 00:23:11.780 But I am cautiously 00:23:13.910 --> 00:23:18.980 optimistic about it, especially when I hear leadership, not, not 00:23:18.980 --> 00:23:22.130 just Matt, but from other CEOs. 00:23:22.910 --> 00:23:28.480 a little, little uneasy what, what embracing AI means, 00:23:28.883 --> 00:23:29.103 James Kemp: Mm. 00:23:29.740 --> 00:23:32.110 Matt: especially when there's no real plan. 00:23:33.280 --> 00:23:36.010 Hey team, go learn this thing. 00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:37.415 'cause if you don't. 00:23:38.170 --> 00:23:41.170 You'll be the one that's gonna be gone next. 00:23:41.860 --> 00:23:46.840 And I just look at that and I go, Hmm, what are we optimizing here? 00:23:46.870 --> 00:23:52.720 Are we optimizing the workflow or are we optimizing the company's expenditures? 00:23:53.500 --> 00:23:56.920 Your thoughts on ai, how are you using it? 00:23:57.040 --> 00:23:59.320 Where are we heading with it for? 00:23:59.320 --> 00:23:59.800 Woo. 00:24:01.045 --> 00:24:02.185 And one other tidbit. 00:24:02.275 --> 00:24:04.285 I did just get the email from wordpress.com 00:24:04.285 --> 00:24:07.795 that they launched their AI builder, which I've yet to try out 'cause 00:24:07.795 --> 00:24:12.325 it was literally a few hours ago before I hit record with you ai. 00:24:12.355 --> 00:24:15.845 Everyone's favorite two letter, acronym thoughts. 00:24:18.528 --> 00:24:19.488 James Kemp: I love ai. 00:24:19.788 --> 00:24:20.863 yeah, I will. 00:24:20.863 --> 00:24:20.893 I. 00:24:22.123 --> 00:24:29.848 I prefix, whatever I say by saying that Matt has basically, you know, said 00:24:29.848 --> 00:24:34.978 the same thing as, as Toby revealed the other day to people at Automatic, 00:24:35.078 --> 00:24:37.748 as far back as last year sometime. 00:24:38.478 --> 00:24:42.823 you know, that, that he encourages people within the company to experiment 00:24:42.823 --> 00:24:47.053 with ai, to expense ai, to explore the options that are out there. 00:24:47.203 --> 00:24:52.273 We had a, we had an AI team actually for, for WooCommerce for a while where we were 00:24:52.273 --> 00:24:55.783 just focusing on what can we do with ai? 00:24:55.783 --> 00:24:57.583 And this was probably this time last year. 00:24:58.093 --> 00:25:02.203 and, you know, you'll be aware like how dramatically AI has evolved since then. 00:25:03.553 --> 00:25:06.373 so yeah, we, we, we had a team that was focused on ai, 00:25:06.433 --> 00:25:07.873 at WooCommerce specifically. 00:25:07.993 --> 00:25:12.043 And we were able to ship that into Wu Express, which is another 00:25:12.043 --> 00:25:13.783 barrier that doesn't exist anymore. 00:25:14.443 --> 00:25:18.883 we, we kind of wound that team up a little bit because we didn't 00:25:18.883 --> 00:25:21.343 have a clear path to deliver ai. 00:25:22.213 --> 00:25:25.333 you know, whereas something like Shopify, people are paying for 00:25:25.333 --> 00:25:28.513 that plan, so they're kind of covering the costs of ai, whereas 00:25:28.873 --> 00:25:31.033 WooCommerce can be hosted anywhere. 00:25:31.133 --> 00:25:34.463 It's not something that we could really ship in core, as it were. 00:25:34.463 --> 00:25:38.723 Maybe we could have some sort of extension, but, yeah, we, we, we wanted 00:25:38.723 --> 00:25:42.773 to explore that a bit further and, and we weren't quite ready, I don't 00:25:42.773 --> 00:25:44.963 think to, to push anything out there. 00:25:45.723 --> 00:25:49.023 we did have some cool stuff in, in WordPress, but yeah, I guess 00:25:49.023 --> 00:25:50.763 that's AI at a product level. 00:25:51.003 --> 00:25:55.053 And I should note that we are revisiting WooCommerce AI and what that means, 00:25:55.133 --> 00:25:56.663 and, and how we can deliver that. 00:25:56.903 --> 00:26:00.248 with, you, you may have seen James, the page joined Automatic, 00:26:00.708 --> 00:26:06.008 who's very, heavy on ai, has built a ton of cool AI products. 00:26:06.768 --> 00:26:10.338 so he's, he's now leading the, the Wu AI initiative as well. 00:26:11.518 --> 00:26:13.498 so that'll be cool, but me personally. 00:26:14.368 --> 00:26:16.018 Yeah, I use AI all the time. 00:26:16.168 --> 00:26:21.658 I use it to just experiment and build stuff that I couldn't build before. 00:26:21.708 --> 00:26:24.708 so, you know, games, what, what they call vibe coding now. 00:26:25.608 --> 00:26:30.468 experimented a little bit with the, the WooCommerce API and like pulling 00:26:30.468 --> 00:26:32.088 that into a, a game environment. 00:26:32.188 --> 00:26:37.663 I, I built like a, an art gallery experience for my photography prints, 00:26:37.663 --> 00:26:41.083 so you can kind of walk through a gallery and, and click through to a 00:26:41.083 --> 00:26:43.173 product, which is just a, a photo print. 00:26:44.233 --> 00:26:47.683 but really that's, that's like hobby, you know, I'm just doing it in the background 00:26:47.683 --> 00:26:52.043 'cause I wanna see what these tools are capable of and, you know, having 00:26:52.043 --> 00:26:57.683 been a developer, it's just fun to do I think any, any developer enjoys coding. 00:26:57.683 --> 00:26:59.213 So that, that's why I do that. 00:26:59.893 --> 00:27:05.263 but in the day to day, I use AI a lot for, multiple things. 00:27:05.353 --> 00:27:09.853 So I would use AI to kind of take my ideas and formulate 00:27:09.853 --> 00:27:12.103 them into something presentable. 00:27:12.493 --> 00:27:16.993 For example, I would use ai, as like a, a partner to just talk 00:27:16.993 --> 00:27:21.643 to and just talk through ideas with that, you know, perhaps. 00:27:22.603 --> 00:27:28.683 Frees up someone else's time, you know, comes back with ideas that aren't solely 00:27:28.683 --> 00:27:34.263 based on two people's imaginations, but they're, you know, widely based on the 00:27:34.263 --> 00:27:36.423 breadth of the internet essentially. 00:27:37.203 --> 00:27:42.003 I use AI to help me rephrase things that I've written. 00:27:42.063 --> 00:27:43.833 I use AI for research. 00:27:44.463 --> 00:27:48.933 You know, so if if I have a, an idea for a feature within WooCommerce, then I might, 00:27:49.683 --> 00:27:55.233 ask AI to kind of do some research on that and find examples of people, you know, 00:27:55.233 --> 00:27:58.683 requesting that functionality, whether it's in WooCommerce or somewhere else. 00:27:59.973 --> 00:28:03.928 so yeah, at at the product level, the, the, you know, product 00:28:03.958 --> 00:28:08.948 role level, I, I use AI all the time, and I find it very useful. 00:28:09.398 --> 00:28:13.388 What I don't want to see with AI is, 00:28:15.818 --> 00:28:20.828 I guess, having AI do the work for you without you then, you know, 00:28:20.828 --> 00:28:23.768 analyzing what it's actually saying and, and thinking it through. 00:28:24.398 --> 00:28:25.508 and the same with codes. 00:28:25.508 --> 00:28:30.228 Like I, I know people, talk a lot about AI taking your job, as 00:28:30.228 --> 00:28:31.638 a, as a developer or whatever. 00:28:32.073 --> 00:28:34.683 But I see AI as a, a tool. 00:28:35.373 --> 00:28:42.073 I think the people who use it best, and who produce the best results with 00:28:42.073 --> 00:28:47.413 it, know what it's doing and like know how to interact with it and why 00:28:47.413 --> 00:28:51.283 something maybe isn't working, and how they can kind of reframe their question 00:28:51.283 --> 00:28:53.383 to make it work in an optimum way. 00:28:54.343 --> 00:28:56.413 and I, yeah, I think it's, it's very powerful. 00:28:56.413 --> 00:28:57.523 I, I think you can. 00:28:58.303 --> 00:29:05.323 Solve problems a lot more quickly, and yeah, I, I'm all for it. 00:29:07.395 --> 00:29:12.105 Matt: I want to end, Our conversation on a more positive outlook, I hope, 00:29:12.795 --> 00:29:16.435 than a lot of the, deeper questions we've been going through and, and asking 00:29:16.435 --> 00:29:17.725 ourselves through this conversation. 00:29:18.655 --> 00:29:24.625 I do think that one of the North stars, and maybe this is more 00:29:24.625 --> 00:29:26.275 for the WordPress side and, and. 00:29:27.130 --> 00:29:29.230 You know, hearing you answer some of these questions. 00:29:29.235 --> 00:29:29.890 I, I do. 00:29:30.220 --> 00:29:34.990 It's interesting to hear how, I mean, there's woo, there's woo woo 00:29:34.990 --> 00:29:37.900 commerce and, and then, you know, automatic, and of course WordPress. 00:29:39.310 --> 00:29:43.270 But I think the North Star for a lot of WordPress future success is 00:29:43.270 --> 00:29:45.490 going to be through the playground. 00:29:45.550 --> 00:29:49.485 This is my prediction, playground.wordpress.net 00:29:49.545 --> 00:29:52.365 For those of you that, are not familiar with it. 00:29:52.950 --> 00:29:55.250 You can check out, some of the videos I've done on the YouTube 00:29:55.250 --> 00:29:56.600 channel about playground. 00:29:56.600 --> 00:29:57.140 It's fantastic. 00:29:57.140 --> 00:29:58.010 You just load up WordPress. 00:29:58.010 --> 00:29:58.640 It's right in your browser. 00:29:58.640 --> 00:29:59.780 You don't have to install anything. 00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:02.060 you know, you can learn how to use WordPress. 00:30:02.060 --> 00:30:04.250 You can start to learn how to code WordPress. 00:30:04.250 --> 00:30:05.870 You can test out a plugin. 00:30:06.620 --> 00:30:07.250 It's fantastic. 00:30:07.610 --> 00:30:11.770 And I think that's going to be, the starting point for a 00:30:11.770 --> 00:30:13.630 lot of users in the future. 00:30:13.870 --> 00:30:15.010 And maybe woo. 00:30:15.010 --> 00:30:15.100 And. 00:30:16.135 --> 00:30:17.095 wordpress.com 00:30:17.095 --> 00:30:21.415 and automatic proper like that, that more automatic experience might have 00:30:21.415 --> 00:30:23.845 their own iterations of, of playground. 00:30:24.085 --> 00:30:26.455 But I think that's the great starting point. 00:30:26.935 --> 00:30:33.035 getting your hands with the tools and features, your thoughts 00:30:33.035 --> 00:30:36.635 on getting the users to start experiencing this stuff straight away. 00:30:37.655 --> 00:30:40.895 And is playground poised to be like. 00:30:41.840 --> 00:30:46.205 Entry point for the future of Woo or W or WordPress. 00:30:47.598 --> 00:30:48.648 James Kemp: Yeah, I completely agree. 00:30:48.648 --> 00:30:53.478 And it, it touches on what I was saying earlier about WooCommerce's entry point. 00:30:53.848 --> 00:30:55.738 you know, it's very, it's very technical at the moment. 00:30:56.768 --> 00:31:00.998 and it's something we've discussed maybe that maybe the first touch point 00:31:01.058 --> 00:31:05.258 of the, the WooCommerce experience is that you can spin up a, a word, 00:31:05.288 --> 00:31:09.338 WordPress slash WooCommerce site on playground, you know, start. 00:31:09.803 --> 00:31:14.243 Building out a site there and maybe, we, we didn't touch on it too much, but 00:31:14.243 --> 00:31:19.313 maybe integrates somehow with the, the AI builder that, that was rolled out earlier 00:31:19.523 --> 00:31:25.073 today by automatic, that you can spin up a, a WooCommerce site, tailor it to your 00:31:25.073 --> 00:31:30.053 needs, and then from there, you know, click a button to then host it somewhere. 00:31:31.073 --> 00:31:35.393 The, the challenge we face is that we don't want to lead people to our hosting. 00:31:35.483 --> 00:31:39.773 You know, we, we want, we wanna be fair to all of the hosting providers 00:31:39.773 --> 00:31:43.533 out there, but specifically the, the ones that partner with us and, and 00:31:43.533 --> 00:31:45.633 feature on, on the WooCommerce website. 00:31:46.473 --> 00:31:48.033 so I'm not sure what that looks like. 00:31:48.243 --> 00:31:52.953 Maybe it just randomly chooses one of them and, and leads you off in that direction. 00:31:52.953 --> 00:31:55.623 Or maybe it's tailored to whatever the, the site is. 00:31:56.163 --> 00:31:59.633 You know, how many products they're gonna host, how many orders they expect, 00:31:59.633 --> 00:32:01.493 like, all of that kind of information. 00:32:02.463 --> 00:32:07.563 but yeah, I, I do think getting someone into WordPress, into WooCommerce 00:32:07.563 --> 00:32:13.443 as quick as possible is going to be key to, to solving adoption, 00:32:13.613 --> 00:32:16.823 you know, solving the issue of just getting started without having to 00:32:16.823 --> 00:32:19.193 think, what's my domain gonna be? 00:32:19.193 --> 00:32:20.273 Where am I gonna host it? 00:32:20.423 --> 00:32:21.893 You know, all that kind of stuff that. 00:32:22.208 --> 00:32:23.108 You have to think about that. 00:32:23.108 --> 00:32:26.828 You don't have to think about on, other hosted solutions. 00:32:29.050 --> 00:32:31.770 Matt: I think we'll see a resurgence, my prediction for the rest of the year, 00:32:32.190 --> 00:32:36.090 especially through whatever economic thing we're running through right now, 00:32:36.508 --> 00:32:36.798 James Kemp: Yeah, 00:32:37.140 --> 00:32:37.920 Matt: that, that we'll 00:32:38.700 --> 00:32:41.990 a resurgence of, WordPress services based businesses. 00:32:41.990 --> 00:32:42.020 I. 00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:46.180 So for the freelancer or small agency listening, what, what are the 00:32:46.180 --> 00:32:48.850 opportunities for WooCommerce now? 00:32:48.850 --> 00:32:54.670 Like obviously we know we can go after and clients that are wanting to sell 00:32:54.670 --> 00:32:58.330 things, is there something from your vantage point you could share with the 00:32:58.330 --> 00:33:00.190 freelancer agency owner listening to this? 00:33:00.190 --> 00:33:05.400 This is, this is the best opportunity for you right now to word, WooCommerce 00:33:05.430 --> 00:33:07.410 in in your client solutions. 00:33:09.373 --> 00:33:12.253 James Kemp: Yeah, it's a tricky one to answer because I, I think the, the biggest 00:33:12.253 --> 00:33:16.393 thing about WooCommerce and WordPress in general is how flexible it is. 00:33:16.483 --> 00:33:21.913 And I think that's probably the main, or at least one of the main selling points 00:33:21.913 --> 00:33:27.543 of using WooCommerce over something else is, there, there comes a point where you 00:33:27.543 --> 00:33:29.583 can just do anything with WooCommerce. 00:33:29.793 --> 00:33:30.753 I, I. 00:33:31.713 --> 00:33:35.883 Can't envision many scenarios that you couldn't achieve using WooCommerce. 00:33:37.113 --> 00:33:44.013 one of the things that we're gonna be focusing on a lot is builder tools, which 00:33:44.283 --> 00:33:49.023 is something that we have some, you know, form of builder tools currently, but 00:33:49.023 --> 00:33:53.793 we're, we are really kind of doubling down on that because we're aware that 00:33:53.793 --> 00:33:56.103 these more technical WooCommerce builds. 00:33:56.163 --> 00:33:56.253 and. 00:33:57.303 --> 00:34:00.183 You know, the people using WooCommerce aren't necessarily 00:34:00.753 --> 00:34:03.903 the merchant directly like they would be on these other platforms. 00:34:04.423 --> 00:34:07.333 typically they're, they're a, a builder assisted merchant. 00:34:07.333 --> 00:34:10.723 So the, the builder creates the site, hands it over to the 00:34:10.723 --> 00:34:14.173 merchant in some way, and then maybe they continue to maintain it. 00:34:15.283 --> 00:34:19.603 so yeah, there's, there's a, a real big focus on builder tools that, that we want 00:34:19.603 --> 00:34:25.993 to, you know, lean into, Some of that is gonna be like better import export tools 00:34:26.053 --> 00:34:28.073 right at the beginning of, of the project. 00:34:28.143 --> 00:34:33.043 being able to import, products, customers orders, like all of that stuff that you 00:34:33.043 --> 00:34:37.423 can't currently, easily import without building your own solution to do that. 00:34:38.333 --> 00:34:43.913 but also we're experimenting with like blueprint data, which is kind of 00:34:43.913 --> 00:34:45.833 heavily influenced by playground where. 00:34:46.688 --> 00:34:51.218 Maybe to spin up a, a WooCommerce site, you just give it A-J-S-O-N 00:34:51.218 --> 00:34:54.458 file of, you know, these are the settings that I want to pre-configure. 00:34:54.608 --> 00:34:58.298 these are the, you know, whatever products or categories that I want. 00:34:59.078 --> 00:35:02.708 You click a button and it's kind of done and, and completes 00:35:02.708 --> 00:35:04.298 that process a lot more quickly. 00:35:05.348 --> 00:35:08.648 And yeah, I, I think performance is a big focus for us at the moment. 00:35:08.808 --> 00:35:12.198 I think that's something that we hear about a lot and something else that we 00:35:12.198 --> 00:35:19.188 want to tackle, is the kind of, I think one of the main issues with WordPress and 00:35:19.193 --> 00:35:26.568 WooCommerce is the compatibility layer and like the, the update layer where, 00:35:27.288 --> 00:35:31.018 because of all the different scenarios where WooCommerce can be, installed. 00:35:31.388 --> 00:35:35.948 with all the different plugins that may be run alongside it, we, we want to figure 00:35:35.948 --> 00:35:43.148 out a way to prevent issues or to, to kind of pre-warn or early warn people 00:35:43.148 --> 00:35:48.588 that issues have arisen or might arise, to just try and make that experience of 00:35:48.588 --> 00:35:54.168 updating and, and, you know, plugging compatibility more, more seamless. 00:35:54.468 --> 00:36:01.398 So, yeah, all of that to say like the, the builder experience and the compatibility 00:36:01.398 --> 00:36:05.388 experience and the update experiences, and the performance experience is something 00:36:05.388 --> 00:36:07.128 that we're like heavily focused on. 00:36:07.578 --> 00:36:13.223 and I would suffix that with just saying that, you know, the, the WooCommerce 00:36:13.398 --> 00:36:19.308 team in general is pretty open to feedback and, me specifically like. 00:36:19.833 --> 00:36:26.043 I welcome feedback and suggestions and I regularly talk to, mostly agencies 00:36:26.043 --> 00:36:29.403 and builders that are working with WooCommerce and hear them out and, 00:36:29.523 --> 00:36:32.493 you know, implement their feedback and advocate for their feedback. 00:36:32.493 --> 00:36:37.263 So hopefully that answers the question, but I know I talked 00:36:37.263 --> 00:36:38.043 on a lot of points there. 00:36:39.645 --> 00:36:41.375 Matt: James Kemp woocommerce.com. 00:36:41.435 --> 00:36:44.105 also check out developer.woocommerce.com 00:36:44.105 --> 00:36:47.715 has been a great source of, inf information, especially for me. 00:36:47.955 --> 00:36:50.835 Where else can folks go to say thanks either to you or to 00:36:50.835 --> 00:36:52.275 learn more about WooCommerce? 00:36:52.275 --> 00:36:52.335 I. 00:36:53.438 --> 00:36:54.698 James Kemp: obviously woocommerce.com. 00:36:54.698 --> 00:36:56.288 There's, there's the Twitter accounts. 00:36:56.398 --> 00:36:57.178 there's two actually. 00:36:57.178 --> 00:37:00.688 There's one for WooCommerce, which I believe is just at WooCommerce. 00:37:00.738 --> 00:37:04.458 and there's one for the developer side of things, which I think is. 00:37:06.178 --> 00:37:10.368 something like develop Woo, I, I should know this really, and 00:37:10.368 --> 00:37:12.548 then me on Twitter, James C. 00:37:12.548 --> 00:37:15.348 Kemp is the, the best place to reach out to me. 00:37:15.558 --> 00:37:16.698 and yeah, just do it. 00:37:16.758 --> 00:37:18.648 You know, if you've, if you've got questions, you've got 00:37:18.678 --> 00:37:20.408 suggestions, just, DM me. 00:37:20.408 --> 00:37:24.558 I'm pretty sure my dms are open, or do it publicly and I will respond 00:37:24.558 --> 00:37:26.478 or direct you to the right place.