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Leaders that I've worked for have really
given me, I would say,

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space and responsibility.

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The space to solve the problem myself and
not be told what to do or how to do it,

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but also put the weight of
responsibility on my back.

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Welcome to Veteran Led.

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Today's guest is Emery Wager.

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Emery graduated from Stanford University
with a degree in mechanical engineering

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and began his career as an engineer at a
startup in Silicon Valley

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before joining the United States Marine
Corps and earning a position

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as an infantry officer.

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Emery spent two combat tours in
Afghanistan, one as a platoon commander

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and one as a company executive officer.

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He left active duty and wrote a novel
called How to Name a Generation.

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After almost a decade in the financial
technology sector, Emery developed a

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concept for Confido Legal, where
he is the co-founder and CEO.

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Confido Legal focuses on finding ways
to help law firms succeed as businesses.

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Through Confido, Emery has personally
worked with hundreds of law firms, helping

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them optimize their financial health.

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Welcome to the show, Emery Wager.
Thank you.

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I'm very excited to be here.

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The great thing about...

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We got a Marine, Stanford
degree, Silicon Valley, and now

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is working in the legal industry.

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As a lawyer, I know that a lot law
firms are horrible with their finances.

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They don't understand.

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Usually, they're really good with their
trust accounts, but beyond that, they're

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horrible at running their businesses.

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Tell me, how did you come up
with the concept of Confido?

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I worked in financial technology and
payments for about a

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decade, as you mentioned.

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One of my side roles at the company I
worked for was managing all of the

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relationships we had with the various
law firms that the business worked with.

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I was basically a business
client of half a dozen law firms.

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And after paying millions of dollars over
the course of 10 years in legal

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bills, being in payments, I saw the...

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I'd never experienced an industry that
was so far from e-commerce best practices.

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You think about
the effort that Amazon puts in to optimize

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that checkout page and the
value that they get out of it.

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Of course, the benefit is not as extreme
in the legal case,

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but it can be life or death in terms of
cash flow, taking the friction

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out of that experience.

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We wanted to bring best-in-class financial
tools to law firms and make sure that they

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could still comply with their ethical
obligations and get best-in-class

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digital payments technology.

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Yeah, and this is where
the huge opportunity is.

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I mean, obviously, you
come from Silicon Valley.

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People are hungry for opportunity.

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But what you see is lawyers are great
about managing their trust accounts.

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They are all over it.

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You mess up your trust account,
you're going to lose your license.

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You're going to lose that ticket.
You will not practice law.

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So no monkey business
with the trust account.

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You got to keep that clean.

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And also, lawyers usually do a
phenomenal job working their cases.

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The good lawyers do, right?

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They are so laser-focused on the law and
getting the best result for their clients.

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They are zealous advocates.

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And yet when it comes to running their own
firm, their own business,

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they are horrible.

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And I know this because
that's who my father was.

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My father was a legendary attorney.

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He tried cases in 24 states,
three different foreign countries.

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He was well known for the Green Beret
Affair where he defended the

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Fifth Special Forces in Vietnam.

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Well known lawyer, horrible businessman.

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And so a lot of it is because
they're trained to be lawyers.

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They're not trained to run a business.

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And they leave law school
and they start a practice.

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And then the old guard is like, Well,
this is a practice, not a business.

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And so for some reason, they think that
the legal industry is the only one that

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shouldn't have market or sell
or be financially responsible.

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It's all about a practice, but it's not.
It is a business.

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If you don't run it as a business, you do
a disservice to

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your clients because you need your best
people doing what is the highest and best

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use of their time, which is
solving the legal problem.

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But you also need people in the business
space to make the firm profitable so that

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you can get the best lawyers, the
best paralegals, the best technology.

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Take us on that journey.

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When you're going through there seeing how
jacked up the legal industry

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is from this perspective.

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These great professionals
who do everything for their clients seem

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to be incompetent at
running their businesses.

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Tell us about that.
Yeah.

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So if you and I were not doing a podcast
right now, but we were actually doing

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legal work in your average hourly
firm, hourly practice area,

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the work that we're doing today, we would
get paid for, and this is average, we

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would get paid for in June sometime.

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So you think about, that's basically a
four month, three-and-a-half-month loan

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that you're giving to your clients.

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And you just think about
as the firm grows, the amount of cash that

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is outstanding there is
just, I mean, it's huge.

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And not to mention the impact
on the likelihood of payment.

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So it also hits your revenue.

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It hits your profit in a big way because
you've already done the legal to

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get that money.

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So all of that,
collections, revenue that's coming in

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drops straight to your bottom line.

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So we think a lot about cash, profit,
and revenue, and

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I am personally, given how I came to this,
passionate about the client experience

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and making that just way, way better.

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There's a lot of
challenging things for the client when

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they're dealing with a law firm, and we
believe that experience should be better.

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Absolutely.
Let me just tell you something.

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There's nothing worse than when a lawyer
provides outstanding service for a client,

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wins the case, and maybe they're asking
for a five-star review, and the client...

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But the billing is screwed up.

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The client is mad because
they got an inaccurate bill.

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They feel they got ripped off or they
didn't get the billing for three months,

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and now it's like, all of a sudden, wait a
minute, you've been

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charging me the whole time?

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There's ways we can really screw up the
client experience if we don't

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understand the financial piece.

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Now, that being said, you
brought up a great point, too.

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AR.
Man, I used to suck at AR.

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I wouldn't bill the clients right away.

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And for some lawyers, they
have head trash around that.

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But I wouldn't bill them right away.

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And then I found out that the longer I
waited to bill them, the less I get paid.

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Then I figured out, if you don't get paid
within 30 days, then you

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might not get paid in 60 days.

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If you don't get paid in 60 days,
you might not get paid in 90 days.

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And if you don't get paid in 90 days,
you're not going to see that money.

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Right?
A hundred percent.

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I mean, I've probably talked to about
2,000 law firms in my time here, and

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it's amazing how you say,
what is your collection rate at the firm?

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And they say, well, my
collection rate is 100%.

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B******.
We collect everything.

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And then you say, well, how much
do you have in 90 day plus AR?

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And it's like, well, they have five years
of revenue sitting in in

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that aging report still.

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It's like, you probably
won't be collecting on that.

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Yeah, there's nothing more
disgusting than aging AR.

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You know that the more it ages,
the less likely you are to recover.

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And of course, you never
want to sue a client.

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Sometimes people have to do that, but then
you end up terminating the

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attorney-client relationship.

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And especially in a large transactional
firm, you don't want to be...

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I've seen that happen where someone, their
great client is the one that's bleeding

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them to death because they're paying the
least revenue, they're carrying the most

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AR, they're not paying them for months.

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And I got to tell you, back when my dad
practiced law early, back in the days

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in the '80s, before you could get...

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Now, today, you go bankrupt, you'll get
a credit card in the mail by Friday.

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But back in my dad's day, there
wasn't all this cash out there.

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People would then hire
them, they'd pay them.

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And when you did criminal defense, they'd
pay them with cars,

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guns, whatever it took.

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Everybody had something but my dad always
had a saying back when he had criminal

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defense, because if you would win a
criminal case, people would be like, Well,

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I shouldn't have had to hire a lawyer.

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If you'd lose a criminal case, they'd say,
Well, what good did you do for me anyway?

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My dad would always say...

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When I first started, and I started
criminal law, now I do Veterans

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disability, personal injury,
and some other things.

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But when I started, that was
where I learned how to try cases.

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My dad would say, You got to get the money
when they come to you with

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the tears in their eyes.

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Get paid up front.

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I'm going to remember that one.

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Yeah, I mean, that's one of the things
that totally we preach that,

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a collect early billing model.

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Even if it's just grabbing the...

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Storing, securely the client's payment
method, so at least you have, maybe you

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don't have the money in the trust account
to work against, but at least

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you have a way to bill them.

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So they don't need to take any action to
pay you because that's what they're used

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to on Amazon, Uber, all these places where
it's so easy to click and

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pay or do nothing and pay.

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Absolutely.

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And I think that's the challenge is that
we're not competing

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against other law firms.

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We're competing against Amazon, FedEx,
Uber, all these instant payment.

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Those are the people who are getting the
money because they're We're

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getting the money right away.

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For firms like ours, we're a
contingency-based firm, mostly now.

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That means when we do personal injury
cases, we don't get paid

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unless our clients win.

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In our Veterans disability cases, we
don't get paid unless our clients win.

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Our clients don't pay us money up front.

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It's really important not only that we
collect the money and we're smart about it

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and we get our clients paid right away,
but also that

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file can't just sit on a desk.

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Every day that that file sits on
the desk, it costs the firm money.

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The lawyers need to work the cases and
work them quickly in order to, number one,

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get our clients paid who are oftentimes
maybe facing bankruptcy or they're worried

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about whether they're going to be able to
pay their medical bills,

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they're not working.

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We need to get them paid right way, but
it's also really good for the business

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when you can keep that cash flow going
because there's nothing worse than not

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being able to meet payroll
or worse, going bankrupt.

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No, it's amazing.

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I'm looking at the top
contingency-based firms like yours these

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days, and just that that model
is the incentives are so much more aligned

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with creating a good business, creating a
good client experience, because you do

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want to move it quickly, be
efficient, create a great experience.

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On the hourly side, the incentives are all
jacked up, where it's actually

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better to draw it out.

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And of course, there's
a few bad eggs out there, but

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most attorneys are doing a good job.
They're doing their best.

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But at the end of the day, the incentives
are totally misaligned on that side.

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Yeah, divorce attorneys, right?
Divorce attorneys.

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Hey, let them fight for six hours, what
each attorney is billing them $1,000 an

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hour, let them fight over the
$300 drapes for six hours.

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All of this, it's just it's insane.

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A lot of times with a divorce or even
transactional, it becomes personal.

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People say, it's not about
the money, it's personal.

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It's like, well, but it is.

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There are times like criminal defense.

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Now, you served your country, you swore an
oath, you understand what it means to

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support and defend the
Constitution of the United States.

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There are times when our liberty is at
stake, where there is no amount of

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money that's going to fix the problem.

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Either the government will dismiss the
case, or we will defeat them at trial.

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That's the attitude.

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But because our clients don't want to be
convicted felons, they don't want to lose

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their civil rights, they don't
want to lose their Civil Liberties.

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They will fight till the end, and
then they need a lawyer to do that.

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But when it comes to money,
it's always interesting to me.

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People are fighting over their
principle, and it's insane.

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I'm going to fight them
over the principle.

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I mean, look, maybe we
should have trial by combat.

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I don't know if you want
to fight over a principle.

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Otherwise, it's just money.

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At the end of the day, if you have a
problem and you have enough

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money, you don't have a problem.
Let's get into that.

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Tell me all the ways that you help law
firms now with their money,

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which is the lifeblood.

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00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,600
Cash flow is the lifeblood of
a law firm or any business.

229
00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:33,095
How do you help?

230
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:39,775
We basically built our entire business on
the non-contingency practice areas and

231
00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:44,335
helping those firms that need to get paid
from their client, eliminate all

232
00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:45,895
of the friction in that process.

233
00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:51,720
So obviously, if a client doesn't want
to pay, that's outside our purview.

234
00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:57,975
But any client who wants to pay but is
busy, whether they're a business client,

235
00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:04,640
an AP person or a consumer client,
we want to take all the friction out for

236
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,975
that client so that the law firm, instead
of being the 10th bill to get paid,

237
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:10,640
they're the first ones to get paid.

238
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:15,855
And so we think a lot, like I said, about
shortening that AR cycle to

239
00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:20,240
impact cash, profit, and revenue.

240
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,720
So that's how we've built our
business for the last five years.

241
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,895
Something I'm very excited about, we
launched earlier this year, is a outbound

242
00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:34,880
a digital payments solution to
allow contingency-based firms to

243
00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,375
really improve their workflows.

244
00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:41,280
But more importantly, as you mentioned,
speak to that next generation of

245
00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:46,055
plaintiffs who grew up
on Venmo, Cash App, Amazon, all these

246
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:53,375
digital options, and they don't want to
wait for the check to show up, and they

247
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:57,015
don't even know what to
do with it when it comes.

248
00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:02,560
And so, again, coming back to that client
experience and giving that Amazon-esque

249
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:07,200
experience to law firm clients and just
making it instant, easy,

250
00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,440
and really improving that experience.

251
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:13,535
Yeah, I find it crazy.

252
00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:15,000
I've been involved with
some other law firms.

253
00:14:15,025 --> 00:14:17,575
As a lawyer, look, I don't
handle my own stuff, right?

254
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:19,935
So I hire lawyers for stuff,
and it's always amazing to me.

255
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,760
It's like, Okay, look, why are you
making it hard for me to pay you?

256
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:24,455
This doesn't have to be hard.

257
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,455
You got LawPay and these other companies.

258
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:29,600
It's like, Look, let me
click a button and pay you.

259
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,935
I'll sign the agreement, but you can't get
me a digital agreement to sign and

260
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:35,535
let me click a button and pay you?

261
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:36,975
What's wrong with you?

262
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,295
It's like, Hey, take the money, because I
know if you don't take the money, you

263
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,320
can't run your operations to represent me.

264
00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:48,200
So I lose confidence in you if you can't
control your cash,

265
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:50,655
I don't think you can control your firm.

266
00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,280
And if you can't do that, you're
not good enough to represent me.

267
00:14:53,920 --> 00:15:00,055
It basically says to the client, I think,
I didn't care enough to

268
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:01,920
make this easy for you.

269
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:06,775
And that is the area where a lot of people
are looking at a bill that's

270
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,080
bigger than they expected.

271
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:14,600
And those little things, those little
moments, just have a huge difference.

272
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:21,440
That's how we got into this in the first
place, seeing that from the client side.

273
00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:26,455
What we didn't know initially, and now we
live and die by this, is the massive

274
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,815
financial impact that
optimizing that has on the on the

275
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,880
underlying cash and profit
position of the firms.

276
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:36,735
Yeah, absolutely.

277
00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,735
I mean, look, it's good for the
firm, it's good for the client.

278
00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:41,240
Just stay on top of it.

279
00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,335
I found also, give your client the dignity
of allowing them to pay

280
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:46,695
for the legal service.

281
00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:48,480
So many times it's like,
Well, the client is behind.

282
00:15:48,505 --> 00:15:50,775
Why not?
Pick up the phone.

283
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,775
How do we help them work through this?

284
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,920
Because sometimes our clients do go
through difficult times, whatever it is,

285
00:15:56,945 --> 00:16:00,040
whether it's a divorce, they lost
a job, they've been laid off.

286
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,935
I think any time the client is struggling
and we can help them work through

287
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,695
that payment process, it's important.

288
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,615
Sometimes it is giving them grace, and
other times it's saying,

289
00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:11,920
Look, this is an agreement.

290
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:13,600
We have to have this conversation.

291
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:19,295
I realize that you may want to,
whatever people waste money now on, I

292
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,615
don't even want to know,
on Prime or whatever.

293
00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,200
But hey, your legal bills,
this is your future.

294
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,040
What is a more important
investment than your future?

295
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,080
If I'm hiring a lawyer,
I'm investing in my future.

296
00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,255
That lawyer is supposed to protect my
future, and I'm not going to go cheap.

297
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,340
There's nothing more
expensive than a cheap lawyer.

298
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,560
But you see these lawyers, and if they
can't control their finances,

299
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:42,600
where else are they broken?

300
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:44,720
Where else are they going to fail you?

301
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:50,560
And what are you paying for as a
client that isn't that quality service?

302
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,760
You're basically paying for
them to run a s**** business.

303
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,935
Yeah.
And where else are they dropping the ball?

304
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,400
And that's, excellence in the practice
of law, excellence in business.

305
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:04,760
We expect both as consumers.

306
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,815
So you don't work with
contingency firms now.

307
00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:09,160
It's all mostly hourly-based?

308
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:11,455
Well, now we are, yeah.

309
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,560
As of this year, with the
outbound digital product.

310
00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,440
We're starting to work
with contingency firms.

311
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:25,375
Frankly, it's been very fun because of
that, what I mentioned earlier, where the

312
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,975
incentives are so aligned to
really think about the business in

313
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,640
strategic ways and move cases
through and be efficient.

314
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:40,015
It's really been enjoyable to work with
that area of law that we haven't

315
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:41,480
really focused on in the past.

316
00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:42,775
That's great.

317
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:46,295
I think that's probably how we got
connected because we are mostly in the

318
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:50,600
contingency space, and we're pretty
tech savvy and somewhat business savvy.

319
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,000
But I had a paper route
since I was 10, 10 years old.

320
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:55,120
That was my business lesson.

321
00:17:55,145 --> 00:17:59,175
I learned all about collecting
money, people bouncing checks, AR.

322
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:04,815
It's amazing when you think about it, how
people used to write checks at the grocery

323
00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:11,775
store, and the grocery store was basically
taking the risk on that payment

324
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:13,440
that you were good for those checks.

325
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:20,295
So we think about credit cards and
whatnot as airline miles and whatnot.

326
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:21,280
But there's amazing...

327
00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:27,335
That instant authorization is an amazing
tool for the business that used to be

328
00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:31,295
hoping that you were good for the money.
Yeah, that's great.

329
00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:32,080
And you know what?

330
00:18:32,105 --> 00:18:35,055
We still take checks in some cases, but
yeah, it's a lot better

331
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:36,460
when we can do it digitally.

332
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:41,080
So I want to talk a little bit about
your novel, How to Name a Generation.

333
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,055
I mean, here you are, a Stanford
grad with an engineering degree.

334
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:45,280
Now, my brother went Navy.

335
00:18:45,305 --> 00:18:47,800
He's a Stanford grad
with a systems degree.

336
00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,860
He worked in my business, so he
worked in the law firm for a while.

337
00:18:50,885 --> 00:18:54,255
But tell me, how is it that
you came to write a novel?

338
00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,200
I mean, you're an engineer, so
why did you think you could write?

339
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:02,735
I had actually always enjoyed writing, and
it was in college, I was choosing

340
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,415
between English and engineering.

341
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,960
Engineering won out, but I've
always enjoyed writing on the side.

342
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:14,055
When I got out, I took a little time to
decide what did I want

343
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:15,760
to do with my life next.

344
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,135
And I was fascinated by two things.

345
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:24,335
One, I went to a
prestigious private high school.

346
00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:27,400
It was the same high school that Bill
Gates and Paul Allen met at

347
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:29,760
and developed Microsoft.

348
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:35,535
And so the MO there was like, no,
you're going to graduate from here.

349
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:37,460
You're going to go to the best college.

350
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:42,040
You're going to get the best job, and
you're just going to be on this path.

351
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:48,815
And I was on that path, and
it was really hard to get off.

352
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:54,295
It was a major mental shift for me to make
a decision to say, oh,

353
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:55,880
I can join the military.

354
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:57,520
I can be a Marine.

355
00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,960
I can get off this path.

356
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:01,895
It took me a while.

357
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:07,200
I went through college, and I started
working before I made that shift.

358
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:12,160
But I thought it would be fascinating, A,
to write about someone who is in that

359
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:19,055
situation and made that decision to enlist
right out of high school

360
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,120
in that situation.

361
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,295
That was the first piece of it.

362
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,120
The second piece of it, I was fascinated
as I was getting out

363
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:33,655
a lot of the Marines that
were in my platoon, in my company, my

364
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,775
battalion, they
had done four, eight years.

365
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,000
They were getting out, and now they were
going to college for the first time.

366
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:45,535
And I thought,
wow, it would be so fascinating to write

367
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:50,880
about their experience meeting the me's in
college without that experience,

368
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:53,640
without that maturity.

369
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:59,775
What is it like for them to go back
to college and be with those younger kids

370
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:07,375
who don't have that experience in combat
in the Marine Corps or

371
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:08,520
in any of the services.

372
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:14,320
Those were the two topics that I really
thought were fascinating to explore.

373
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:20,135
And, in the novel, the main character
grows up, goes to a prestigious private

374
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,135
high school, through
a series of events, decides to

375
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,575
enlist right out of high school.

376
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:30,495
It's about his experience
juxtaposed by that of his or those of his

377
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:35,760
classmates who go on to top-tier colleges,
high-powered careers and everything.

378
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,960
At the end, he gets out
and goes back to college.

379
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,080
It's about his experience interacting with
those classmates that are

380
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,160
five years younger than him and
don't have those experiences.

381
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:54,320
Really, really fun experience just going
through the process of writing it.

382
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,480
Did you ever read Once an Eagle?

383
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,200
I love that book.

384
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:09,415
When I got out, actually, three people had
given it to me, and I drove back across

385
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,240
country and listened to it, and
it took me almost exactly...

386
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:18,600
I was basically hitting the Pacific
Ocean when it was wrapping up.

387
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,160
It's amazing.

388
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,080
It really is an amazing book.

389
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,855
Yeah, I see some similarities there.

390
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:31,015
The guy doesn't get into West Point, and
so he enlists to fight in the war and then

391
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:35,575
becomes an officer, and then he's
dealing with the careerist officer.

392
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:36,860
I mean, it's an interesting...

393
00:22:36,885 --> 00:22:40,455
A little bit long for my taste, a little
bit too much on the romance

394
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:41,560
side and all that garbage.

395
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,840
But I thought it was a very well-written
book, and I loved it when, especially I

396
00:22:44,865 --> 00:22:48,055
believe he's in when he
went to China, right?

397
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,655
And he's there and he's talking to the
former Emperor who's now

398
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:52,815
leading the resistance.

399
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,160
And I thought that was
just such a great moment.

400
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,615
All right, well, we will move away
from literature and get to leadership.

401
00:22:58,640 --> 00:22:59,800
All right, let's talk about this.

402
00:22:59,825 --> 00:23:07,895
So you've been a Marine Infantry Officer,
but you've also led tech teams in Silicon

403
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,120
Valley, and you're leading a startup.

404
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:11,960
Let's dive in.

405
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,615
Of all of those,
just mesh them together whatever, your

406
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:21,280
three best examples of leadership and
the three worst examples of leadership.

407
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,800
And name names or don't, I don't care.

408
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:24,840
All right.

409
00:23:24,865 --> 00:23:30,200
So best examples, I think, are the times
when either

410
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:38,655
I or leaders that I've worked for
have really given me, I would

411
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,000
say, space and responsibility.

412
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:48,695
So the space to operate
autonomously, to solve the problem myself

413
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:54,775
and not be told what to do or how to do
it, but also put the weight of

414
00:23:54,800 --> 00:24:02,095
responsibility on my back for
success or if we are not going to be

415
00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:05,120
successful owning the
failure, learning from it.

416
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:11,880
So I would say a big thing is that space
and also that responsibility.

417
00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:18,480
I've really done well in those situations,
and we really try to make that...

418
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:26,255
We really try to instill that in our
folks and in the culture of the company.

419
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,560
One of our core principles is,
everyone's an owner.

420
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:36,295
We do provide legal ownership, but that's
not the important part.

421
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,640
The important part is everyone's expected
to think and act like the owner of the

422
00:24:39,665 --> 00:24:43,415
business, not like they're in their little
silo and they're only thinking

423
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,215
about their one little part.

424
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,135
They need to understand the economics,
the customer acquisition cost,

425
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:50,695
the customer lifetime value.

426
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,600
If you don't understand those things,
how are you going to

427
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:56,880
spend money to solve a customer problem?

428
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:03,120
You won't know how much to spend,
and you'll have to be told what to do.

429
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,320
That part of our culture is huge.

430
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:16,360
I would say on the negative side, you can
tell when a leader is out for themselves.

431
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:23,000
And the toughest leaders that I've worked
for, tough in a negative

432
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:28,640
sense, where I really didn't feel like
working hard for them,

433
00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:32,760
was when you can tell that they're
really in it for themselves.

434
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:39,095
When they're talking to you, it's not
about the best interest of the unit,

435
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:41,735
the best interest of the company.

436
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:47,040
It's how can I advance,
and I want to be in charge.

437
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,295
You don't have to say anything specific.

438
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,120
You can just feel when that's there.

439
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,440
Those are the worst examples.

440
00:25:58,240 --> 00:25:59,295
Fair enough.

441
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:03,375
As we wrap up, and I don't think I nailed
this, Emery, but what is

442
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:04,440
your title at Confido?

443
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:10,200
I like to use co-founder, but
I put CEO on the contracts.

444
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:12,560
All right, fair enough.

445
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:21,535
Emery, where can our audience learn
more about Emery Wager or Confido Legal?

446
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:21,960
Confidolegal.

447
00:26:21,985 --> 00:26:24,600
com is the best place to get
in touch with the company.

448
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:29,895
You can reach out on our contact us page,
a bunch of different ways to get in touch.

449
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,295
And then for me personally, LinkedIn.

450
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,335
I'm pretty active on LinkedIn
and check those messages.

451
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:40,240
So please send me a note.

452
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:45,920
Love, especially working with Veteran
entrepreneurs and helping out where I can.

453
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:51,760
Our lead investor at Confido specializes
in Veteran-led startups,

454
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:57,320
and so we're really deep into that
Veteran entrepreneur ecosystem.

455
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,055
But you don't have to be a Veteran.

456
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,000
Hit me up on LinkedIn.
I'd love to hear from you.

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Thanks so much for your time, and thank
you for your service and your continued

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service to our community
and to our Veterans.

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Thank you.

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Thank
you for joining us today on Veteran Led,

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where we pursue our mission of promoting
Veteran leadership in business,

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strengthening the Veteran community, and
getting Veterans all of the

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benefits that they earned.

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If you know a leader who should be on the
Veteran Led podcast, report to our online

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community by searching @VeteranLed on your
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and posting in the comments.

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We want to hear how your military
challenges prepared you to lead your

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00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,560
industry or community, and
we will let the world know.

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And, hit subscribe and join
me next time on Veteran Led.