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Good morning, Grid Connections listeners.

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Welcome back to Grid Connections, the podcast where we explore all things transportation,
clean energy, and our power grid connecting all of these systems together.

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Today, we welcome back Walter Schulze, host of the Network Architect channel, for an
in-depth look at how EV charging infrastructure is rapidly evolving.

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Walter shares his first-hand experience navigating the latest fast charging networks, from
Tesla superchargers to the explosive growth of Pilot Flying J.

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EVgo and IANA.

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We also dig into why lower cost EVs like the Chevrolet Equinox EV and upcoming Chevy Bolt
will drive a massive demand for public charging.

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How retail giants like Walmart and Costco are jumping into EV charging to attract more
customers.

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The real economics of fast charging and why membership plans might be the smartest way to
save on road trips.

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Along with the future of plug and charge technology and why some networks are skipping
apps altogether.

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If you've ever wondered where EV charging is headed next, this episode is packed with real
world insights and expert analysis from our guests today.

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So don't keep it to yourself.

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Share this episode with someone who's curious about the future of EV charging.

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And if you enjoyed it, please leave us a quick review.

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It really does help.

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Plus sign up for our brand new Great Connections newsletter to stay on the top of
everything happening in the world of electric vehicles and clean energy.

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Hit the link in the show notes to learn.

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more about the newsletter and everything we cover in today's episode along with
yesterday's episode where I was on the coast to coast electric vehicles YouTube live

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stream talking about all things around the current situation of electric vehicles, Tesla's
as a brand and much much more.

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It was a great conversation and Walter was part of the panel as well.

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So with that enjoy.

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I operate what's called the Network Architect channel and you would think that'd be
computer based and initially it was, but it just kind of evolved into other technology and

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one of which was my passions was electric vehicles.

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And that's really where the focus of the channel is now.

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I operate content.

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that is primarily focused on electric vehicle charging expansion throughout the United
States.

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I think it's a good way of characterizing what I've found is my mission here.

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I think that is a pretty good summary, but I'm kind of curious.

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Obviously as you kind of shared, you do have a bit of the background and more of the
traditional IT background, but how did you get involved with this or like what, what, what

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was the original inspiration?

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What kind of got you passionate about electric vehicles?

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Sure.

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We were a internal combustion engine household until my wife got a 2019 Tesla Model 3 Long
Range.

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And after which it became a curiosity of mine.

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Using an electric car in order to take trips, seemed like such an impossible thing.

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I didn't even know that was achievable until I got in it and I actually saw the landscape
that is the Tesla Supercharger Network.

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And without a doubt, it's the gold standard for the user experience for taking a road
trip.

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It's integrated into the car, is optimized for the fastest recharge time, very
conveniently located, very ample stall count, dependability.

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I've never pulled into a Tesla supercharger station that hadn't worked.

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And it just really opened my eyes.

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I'm like, this is actually, this is achievable.

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I can remember one time I took a business trip from Charlotte, North Carolina to Memphis,
Tennessee.

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And it was just the fact that it could be done.

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You know, it's not the fact that it was might, might've been a little bit longer.

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It could be, you can hop in an electric car and you could drive across country and it's
not an issue.

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And that was just a big turning point for me after which we got a second car, which was a
Volvo XC40 recharge.

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and we tried to take road trips in it and its road trip experience was dramatically
different from the supercharger experience.

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And that kind of as a husband and a self-appointed protector, I started to investigate
options for electric vehicle charging just to try to make the road tripping in the Volvo

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easier.

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And it takes a lot more planning, at least back in the day, and it still does to some
extent, on a CCS station landscape in order to do a road trip.

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And from there, it just kind of expanded into researching charging stations.

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And then we got a Cadillac Lyric and the Lyric came with two years of free with EVGO.

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And I'm like, EVGO, let's see where I can go on an EVGO.

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And it turns out there's, there's lots of expansions and activity going in EVGO as well.

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So really from there, that was the starting point of where I started to make content from.

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And now you have the lyrics still and you just got a Chevrolet Equinox, correct?

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did.

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Yeah, boy, that is a beast.

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The deals they're putting on those, if you could find one that's 2024, that's still
sitting on a lot somewhere.

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The managers are trying to move those things off their lots in order to make space for the
2025.

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And they're really discounting.

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I got like $4,500 off on mine.

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Yeah, I think it was John McElroy that was on here and he says, doesn't matter how well or
how expensive a vehicle is.

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It will always sell if it's on a dealership and it just depends who is going to be the one
that has to pay that, that Delta and prize.

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I think I got the favorable outcome there.

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But you never know when you're the customer at a car dealership whether or not you're
making out ahead or not.

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But it felt like it.

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And they seem to be good people at my dealership.

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That's great.

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So I guess that's something a lot of our listeners are always kind of curious about, what
have been your experiences when buying an electric vehicle?

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mean, Volvo is usually a pretty well known brand for being a little bit more, uh, customer
centric and at least being open to having those conversations from a company that's

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traditionally had an internal combustion engine background.

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I'm just kind of curious if you've seen any evolution or if you've had a pretty mostly
fortunate experience with the different dealerships you've worked with while buying any of

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them.

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Well, the truth is that in our household, really my wife is the one who makes the
automotive buying decisions.

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And it sounds kind of upside down, but that's just kind of what it is.

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I'll drive whatever.

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I really don't care.

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So she basically buys the new car and then I get whatever she hands down as a secondary
car.

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And so you'd, we'd have to pull her in right now.

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She's chopping up a gourmet dinner out there in the kitchen to ask her what her buying
experience was.

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Actually, the first car I got was the Equinox.

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That was the one that I actually did for myself.

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And the reason I did, I'm like, listen, this is a crazy deal.

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We have to do this.

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We're going to decrease our monthly payment by 200 bucks.

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We're going to get a new car and it's even bigger than the XC 40 recharge.

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And so it just was a very easy decision.

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So in that case, it was a little bit different, but normally my wife is the one she's the
one who got the Tesla and Lyric and the Volvo.

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And then me, I was the Equinox and the relationship we have with the current General
Motors dealership is very positive.

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nice people, very friendly, very accommodating, it's very close to our house and there's a
whole question about whether dealers are good or bad.

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I think that's kind of a mood issue.

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Well, in that case, what was, obviously the price was a big part of it.

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And I know just kind of in passing and watching a couple of your videos talking about it
seems like what you'd seen with Tom Malogny and his, experience with his own Equinox was

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part of the reason, but was it really just price or was what was kind of the forcing
function that made you go with the Equinox?

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I just feel like there's a lot of great deals right now when it comes to EVs, especially
if you're looking at leasing or kind of trying to take advantage of some of these special

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rates.

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Well, if you look at the Volvo XC40 recharge, the 2022 has a buck 50 charging speed and
about 240 EPA range.

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Now I was able to squeeze 240 out of it doing like perfect conditions where a couple of
days I was not using the HVAC and things like that, but I'm thinking I've lost probably

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about five, 8 % of the range with the new Equinox.

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I get over 300.

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a similar charging speed, more car because it's bigger, and less monthly payment.

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And so for me, was why would I not do that?

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I couldn't think of a reason.

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loved I really loved the Volvo XC40 recharge, very dependable, wickedly fast, very
comfortable, kind of a luxe feel to it.

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That definitely appealed to my characteristics.

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But that deal was just too good.

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Well, that makes a lot of sense.

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And it seems like it has been a pretty positive experience for you just move it into that.

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And obviously the bigger size and everything.

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I'm kind of curious now that we've, you've, you've kind of discussed the different EVs
you've moved into and what you've owned.

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What are like looking back this past year, like what to use really stood out from the
ownership experience when it comes to the EV charging side of it.

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I know there's been a large, something you cover so well as kind of the expansion of.

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Pilot flying J and a lot of these kind of more traditionally well-known Essentially gas
providers usually near kind of great locations along highways interstates But before we

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can again to that I was just kind of curious like what are you seeing as far as?

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That what to you is kind of like the outstanding improvements for day-to-day ownership as
an EV is it sometimes the software?

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What are some of these things that you kind of just think like?

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Really make it clear that this is where everything is going because that's what I hear
from you understandably a lot

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But I just want to kind of maybe give some of that context for our listeners as well.

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Yeah, I think the primary reason EVs were introduced as a option for purchasing was
compliance vehicles in order to help spur improved environmental responsibility.

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And I don't know if I'm a bad person or not, but I don't use that as a primary purchase
decision.

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Really what I've always been focused on is the most reliability for my dollar.

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And back in the day, Mercedes was really

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brand to go for if you wanted a really reliable car.

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You had to pay more for it, but you're going to get a very reliable car.

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And yes, it was going to cost more to repair when it broke down, but boy, was it a, you
know, it'd keep going for 300,000 miles.

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Now I can get an Equinox and it's like many times more reliable than the best Mercedes
back in the day, because there's just so many fewer components.

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I'd never go get things repaired.

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And there's no oil to change.

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I love the ability of the convenience of charging in my garage.

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I never go to gas stations anymore.

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We recently had to bring the car in for a service, the Cadillac Lyric, and they offered us
a loaner.

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And both me and my wife were like, no, we don't want a gas car.

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That means we'd have to go to a gas station.

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And who does that?

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Who goes to a gas station to buy gas?

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You you put your credit card in the machine.

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We don't do that anymore.

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We get our electricity, we get our fuel from the electricity of the house.

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So I think that's the number one thing is the convenience and the reliability.

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For me, the wickedly fast speed is not a element that I'm seeking.

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It is there, but it's the reliability and the convenience factors.

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I don't think I could have said it better myself.

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think I was even just anecdotally reminded of that.

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Just this past week we have a two EVs and then a classic 87 Land Rover Defender, which is
usually what we kind of take the dogs in to go out kind of like mountain hiking

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adventures.

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And we were trying to do it, but we were kind of short for time and we get in and we
realized, okay, we have to stop at a gas station.

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We have to put oil in it all these things, which that's also kind of the fun of ownership
of something kind of like this as a classic vehicle, but.

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When we were pressed on time, you just kind of get spoiled with those things that you
forget about.

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And the unfortunate inconveniences that pros and cons of the combustion world.

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weekend I used to go to the gas station to fill the tanks up for the week, right?

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And I haven't done that in years now.

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Well, let's go to kind of the main focus of this and kind of discuss your special domain
of expertise, which is around just looking at domestic North American, EV fast charging.

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And I'd be just curious what to you has been the biggest takeaways kind of looking at like
2024 and maybe just even the past year or so of what really has stood out to you as being

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like the big change and making

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the non-Tesla realm more approachable for more EV drivers.

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It's really been a roller coaster.

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2024 has been a wild roller coaster.

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I, about halfway through, was waiting for the GM to switch over to the supercharger so we
could finally gain access to it.

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And shortly thereafter, I became a member with my Volvo for supercharger station charging
with the discounted rates where I get the same rates that Tesla owners do.

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And Volvo came shortly after General Motors.

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So that was a seminal event.

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Because being a former Tesla owner, know the ubiquity is really what is the gold standard.

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The reliability is one thing, but it's the ubiquity.

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It's the fact that there are stations all over.

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If I have a good count on it, I think it's right around 23 or 2,500 stations throughout
North America, Canada and the United States, not including Mexico, and something like

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10,000 stalls.

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And so always having us all available at very convenient locations is what is, you know,
it's the whole ability to survive a road trip.

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Like I said, on my trip from Charlotte to Memphis in an electric vehicle, the Tesla
Supercharger station provides that.

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And so that was definitely a seminal moment in the non-Tesla realm is the access.

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And I know that several OEMs are still waiting for their access, but for us, the
transition was General Motors and Volvo.

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And both of those were.

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big transitions.

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There's really no way around it.

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That opened up all kinds of avenues that weren't there before.

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But also 2024 saw the burgeoning network of Pilot Flying J finally surpass a hundred
stations.

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My wife and I were able to travel free of charge in her Cadillac Lyric from North Carolina
to the Grand Canyon National Park and back using just Pilot Flying J stations.

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We did have to charge at one Electrify America station where there was a bit of a gap in

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New Mexico.

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But boy is that nice.

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Those are immediately off the Tesla Supercharger actually doesn't have anything to compare
to those things.

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Those are right off the interstate and because it's on the property of the site host that
is running the station and the canopies are built in and then you just go right into the

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restrooms and other facilities are right there immediately off the interstate.

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That was such a sweet trip.

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And the fact that we had two years of free with the purchase of the Lyric was just such a
delight.

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Beautiful weather, didn't have any problems whatsoever until my wife decided she wanted to
go to Roswell and that was off script.

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And then we had to quickly find some audible charging stations.

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Apparently Roswell, New Mexico has got quite a bit of charging infrastructure in it.

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So who would have thunk?

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But many things are occurring in 2024.

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I could probably talk for a full 20 minutes.

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So I'll just kind of leave that as the intro.

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Well, let's, let's go a little more in depth.

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I think that is one of the big themes we've kind of heard on this podcast is just talking
to a lot of people recently about some of the challenges that still remain, but really how

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quickly those challenges are being improved upon or even just being removed from these
experience altogether that were kind of a big reason.

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A of people were holding back on EVs.

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mean, let's kind of dig that a little bit deeper.

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Like what, what are some of those for you?

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Cause I think one of the things I also want to talk to you about is

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The coverage you're in North Carolina, North Carolina, correct?

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Or yeah.

201
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I'm on the West coast kind of in a more rural area, but it is really fascinating to me
when I've done, kind of, and it's interesting because that area you're talking about is

202
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like really when, once you start getting west of the Missouri river.

203
00:16:22,066 --> 00:16:31,892
And you can even look at this, when you look at a population map, you start getting much
less density of population, but the density of DC fast chargers really does change night

204
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and day, like to the east of it.

205
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there's so many more chargers and many more beyond just Tesla superchargers.

206
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Whereas once you start getting west of it, I've just, that's where I've kind of run into
most of the issues with my, EV road trips.

207
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Not that it's ever stranded me or anything, but you do just start, to be a little more
strategic, even in the test of where you decide you want to charge.

208
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So yeah, I'd love to hear more about your experience with that and how you kind of go
about with choosing locations for charging.

209
00:17:01,215 --> 00:17:07,907
Well, in the lyric, it's for sure sticking with EVGO because we have free charging and why
not.

210
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And actually EVGO has done a terrific job of upscaling their network.

211
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At one point they were just a ready tag network of Nissan funded chargers that were there
in order to help with the LEAF initiative.

212
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But they've got mad money behind them now.

213
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There's the DOE loan and I was just listening prior to this.

214
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podcast, the investor relation earnings call for 2024.

215
00:17:36,806 --> 00:17:39,266
And I try to stick with the data.

216
00:17:39,266 --> 00:17:53,406
The headlines can be a bit sensationalized and no, think the death of the electric vehicle
is being reported far too early because the data that I'm looking at is not in 2024.

217
00:17:53,406 --> 00:17:59,742
They saw 116 % increase in electrons delivered.

218
00:17:59,742 --> 00:18:02,642
And so that is a raw number.

219
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We don't have Tesla's numbers because they put the supercharger line items underneath, I
believe, other services lumped in with insurance.

220
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So we don't actually get the information from Tesla supercharger, but I'd have to assume
it's similar.

221
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So 116 % year over year growth in aggregate throughput.

222
00:18:24,922 --> 00:18:29,054
that 422 number right there is mostly piloting J.

223
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stalls and what they're projecting for 2025 is an increase of somewhere between 450 and
550 what they call EVGO extend stalls as well as they're starting to ramp up with what

224
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they call the DOE loan which is 1.25 billion of which 75 million has already been
dispersed and so there's questions about whether or not this even leave

225
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legally possible for the Trump administration to claw that back.

226
00:18:55,475 --> 00:19:01,143
But some of the money has already been dispersed and I think they're going to be getting
75 million every quarter through 2030.

227
00:19:01,369 --> 00:19:13,677
And assuming that stays in place, they're going to triple the size of their network and be
somewhere around 4,000 stations by 2030, sitting in a very good place.

228
00:19:13,677 --> 00:19:15,777
Even if the idea we gets pulled,

229
00:19:16,274 --> 00:19:28,180
The executive leadership was talking about alternative funding sources because they're one
of the few CPOs that is actually getting ready to flip to a net positive margin.

230
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For the first time in 2025, they'll actually be earning money and they attribute that to
the utilization of their chargers has increased past 20%.

231
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So you have a charger sitting in the ground on average, their chargers are being used more
than

232
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about 20 % of the time.

233
00:19:46,313 --> 00:19:51,977
And so that for them is causing all kinds of different economics that are very positive
for them.

234
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It decreases the demand charges and they're able to spread those out and the other site
specific costs associated with leases and whatnot.

235
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So they're doing very well and only bright future ahead for them.

236
00:20:10,831 --> 00:20:12,658
if electric vehicles stop,

237
00:20:12,658 --> 00:20:24,323
getting sold, they're still fine because according to the EBGO executive leadership,
there's still a gap in the number of cars currently in the population that are demanding

238
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charging and the amount of charging that is available.

239
00:20:27,164 --> 00:20:31,045
So those two things combined is making their market, they're fine.

240
00:20:31,045 --> 00:20:37,728
Even if EVs stop getting sold right now and went to zero, there's still enough EVs on the
road in order for them to continue to grow.

241
00:20:37,728 --> 00:20:38,669
But that's not going to happen.

242
00:20:38,669 --> 00:20:40,139
We all know that's not going to happen.

243
00:20:40,139 --> 00:20:42,490
Even if the tax credit is removed and

244
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,084
who knows what else they put some kind of crazy federal tax on EVs.

245
00:20:46,084 --> 00:20:50,479
It's still going to be like my Equinox lease deal.

246
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:56,196
Eventually, we're going to have less expensive cars that are more reliable and who's not
going to choose that.

247
00:20:57,319 --> 00:21:05,816
Yeah, I think this kind of goes to a little bit of what I was alluding to earlier, just
there's been so many reasons for pushback in the past towards EVs and some of them to some

248
00:21:05,816 --> 00:21:11,290
extent actually had been pretty reasonable and understandable when it comes to like the
actual road tripping of it.

249
00:21:11,290 --> 00:21:19,637
But really with the last few years, we've seen that be finally fleshed out with these
different networks among one of among other reasons.

250
00:21:19,637 --> 00:21:20,748
But I completely agree with you.

251
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I mean, we're seeing I think this has been a constant kind of conversation we've had on
this podcast, but for like the past

252
00:21:27,077 --> 00:21:32,801
year we've been hearing about how EV demand is drying up, how EV cells are slowing down.

253
00:21:32,801 --> 00:21:41,207
Well, when you actually pull part of the data, mean, some of that has been kind of Tesla's
being the larger leader of has slowed down a little bit, but the bigger really message to

254
00:21:41,207 --> 00:21:50,873
take from that is the fact that when you actually look at the entire auto industry, not
just electric vehicles, that is what's slowing down the most.

255
00:21:50,873 --> 00:21:53,055
It's not really specifically electric vehicles.

256
00:21:53,055 --> 00:21:56,261
There's actually some pretty big deltas in

257
00:21:56,261 --> 00:22:02,943
negative growth with a lot of automakers across their whole product fleet, combustion
engine, you name it.

258
00:22:02,943 --> 00:22:12,866
And so seeing like even, I believe they're still kind of predicting around a 10 % for this
year of sales domestically, which is still lower than a lot of the other countries for

259
00:22:12,866 --> 00:22:14,026
their EV sales.

260
00:22:14,026 --> 00:22:23,249
That actually is a pretty big bright spot for those in the automotive industry, given how
many headwinds there are just for traditional vehicle sales.

261
00:22:24,904 --> 00:22:27,285
Yeah, I was going to say somewhere between 10 and 12 is what I've been hearing.

262
00:22:27,285 --> 00:22:33,728
And I think it depends on whether or not the tax credit gets axed or not and what
long-term effect that's going to have and whether or not it's getting absorbed by

263
00:22:33,728 --> 00:22:38,079
automakers or if it's getting passed along to the consumer.

264
00:22:39,260 --> 00:22:41,061
you know, it has to go with the automotive industry.

265
00:22:41,061 --> 00:22:45,602
They've got a certain production number and like what you said with John McElroy, every
car gets sold.

266
00:22:45,602 --> 00:22:47,993
So, I mean, if they make them, they're going to sell them.

267
00:22:47,993 --> 00:22:50,344
So that's really the question of the automakers.

268
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And that's a good automaker.

269
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I've learned this by watching it.

270
00:22:55,646 --> 00:23:04,912
calibrates the number of cars they make to be in line with demand and boy is that a tough
thing to do but the good ones do it well.

271
00:23:04,967 --> 00:23:05,817
Yeah.

272
00:23:06,858 --> 00:23:14,202
So let's kind of look at, we, mean, you obviously discussed and we kind of had that image
there from Evie go and some of their projected growth and what we're seeing.

273
00:23:14,223 --> 00:23:22,387
I think one of the other big ones, obviously of last year, and we're starting to see more
of, and I'd love to see more on the West coast, but you've already been to one is Iona.

274
00:23:22,828 --> 00:23:32,365
And obviously Iona is kind of an interesting one because they're trying to go for this
kind of higher end experience while you charging, which has.

275
00:23:32,365 --> 00:23:41,029
pros and cons to it if you're trying to make a business that's just that much more expense
and obviously it is a company that's essentially formed by eight different automakers to

276
00:23:41,029 --> 00:23:51,284
try and make easy fast ev charging and road tripping that much easier so i would love to
kind of hear your thoughts on the entrance of them and what that kind of sets for a bar

277
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for the other ev chargers out there just across the board around charging experience and
then actually just being a

278
00:23:58,129 --> 00:24:03,157
person going in and having the options to access the facilities and where you think this
is all going.

279
00:24:03,678 --> 00:24:04,718
Glad to.

280
00:24:04,718 --> 00:24:13,078
And before I do just talking about the elevated experience, I think there's multiple CPOs
that are throwing their hat in the trying to outdo each other game.

281
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Like the Tesla Oasis station that's going into California is going to be a big
crowd-pleasing Instagramable station.

282
00:24:21,318 --> 00:24:25,878
And EBGO is partnering with General Motors to put in what are known as flagship stations.

283
00:24:25,918 --> 00:24:28,518
And BP Pulse is putting in Giga Hubs.

284
00:24:28,518 --> 00:24:33,858
it seems like every CPO is trying to one up the other one.

285
00:24:34,130 --> 00:24:39,914
But IANA, their claim to fame is that Seth Cutler is one of us.

286
00:24:40,074 --> 00:24:46,859
And so when he first was hired, he said he wasn't going to put chargers in the back lot of
a shopping mall.

287
00:24:46,859 --> 00:24:51,962
was basically, he's like, we're not going to reproduce the mistakes of the past.

288
00:24:51,962 --> 00:25:03,441
We're going to have a customer centric charging solution for EV drivers that is a place
that they want to go.

289
00:25:03,441 --> 00:25:04,632
and is compelling.

290
00:25:04,632 --> 00:25:07,252
Now, as you say, that can be expensive.

291
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So we need someone with deep pockets in order to fund this.

292
00:25:10,524 --> 00:25:24,059
And apparently the whole concept of the chicken and the egg that has been around for a
while where government stepped in in order to fund with public funds in order to get the

293
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:29,982
charging infrastructure rolling, in order to get the technology curve

294
00:25:30,102 --> 00:25:36,348
starting to occur where the cost of charging was decreasing and starting to become more
advantageous and the business models were acceptable.

295
00:25:36,348 --> 00:25:38,769
And that's really where the Nevi program came from.

296
00:25:38,769 --> 00:25:46,776
It was that whole mindset that we needed to kickstart this electric vehicle charging
infrastructure in order for it to take off.

297
00:25:46,776 --> 00:25:58,596
But I think Nevi kind of showed up after it started to take off, which is a little bit
ironic, but still glad to have Nevi in whatever form or fashion it ends up in.

298
00:25:58,748 --> 00:26:04,618
But Ayanna, as you said, showed up here in North Carolina and I happened to be a North
Carolinian.

299
00:26:04,618 --> 00:26:14,322
I felt like hitting the lottery when I heard that they were making what's known as RTP or
Research Triangle Park, sometimes also called the New Silicon Valley.

300
00:26:14,802 --> 00:26:22,724
Their home, and it's also a couple other electric vehicle companies are calling RTP home
as well.

301
00:26:23,385 --> 00:26:28,336
ChemPower is up there and Vinfast is not too far from there.

302
00:26:28,978 --> 00:26:35,383
So it's starting to become a hub for all kinds of different technologies, electric
vehicles included.

303
00:26:35,403 --> 00:26:46,192
And as a result, I actually crossed paths with a few of the higher ups and was lucky
enough to be invited to both the out of spec cars and coffee and the actual rip and

304
00:26:46,192 --> 00:26:48,294
cutting with the eight OEMs.

305
00:26:48,294 --> 00:26:57,971
So I was able to interview multiple IANA board members and actually get insight into why

306
00:26:57,971 --> 00:27:00,192
they're thinking it's needed.

307
00:27:00,273 --> 00:27:12,570
And almost universally, the answer was, we're trying to solve the problems of the past and
provide a product for electric vehicle owners that makes a compelling or gives a

308
00:27:12,570 --> 00:27:16,943
compelling answer to charging on the go.

309
00:27:17,384 --> 00:27:27,810
And so far, what they've cooked up has definitely solved that problem, but it hasn't
solved the problem through focus groups.

310
00:27:28,166 --> 00:27:31,167
and renderings.

311
00:27:31,508 --> 00:27:38,070
They've built stations with such a ferocious speed.

312
00:27:38,070 --> 00:27:40,091
It's mind blowing.

313
00:27:40,091 --> 00:27:51,256
They went from October to December, turning the first spade of dirt to opening a station
that was fully baked with all kinds of marketing gimmicks, a local business owner in order

314
00:27:51,256 --> 00:27:55,818
to supply coffee and sundries, as well as

315
00:27:55,818 --> 00:28:08,924
a QR code integrated access into off hours and restrooms and vending with top of the line
hardware and a 2500 kVA transformer.

316
00:28:08,924 --> 00:28:15,666
To see that all get put in and a canopy, to see that all put in and in two months was
really staggering.

317
00:28:15,666 --> 00:28:21,609
They say their claim to fame is that when they issue a press release, it's not for
something in the future.

318
00:28:21,609 --> 00:28:24,338
They issue a press release saying, hey, we're going to

319
00:28:24,338 --> 00:28:26,109
build these stations and here they are.

320
00:28:26,109 --> 00:28:28,661
They're already open.

321
00:28:28,661 --> 00:28:30,683
You can go to them, right down the street.

322
00:28:30,683 --> 00:28:35,566
So that's definitely something different about IANA and they call it IANA Speed.

323
00:28:37,115 --> 00:28:37,986
Now we love to see it.

324
00:28:37,986 --> 00:28:39,797
And I think it is pretty impressive.

325
00:28:39,797 --> 00:28:50,706
And in a couple of ways, obviously there's a very specific kind of brand style that
they're building for these locations that has kind of like almost the kind of traditional

326
00:28:50,706 --> 00:28:51,797
retro.

327
00:28:52,818 --> 00:28:53,688
Yeah.

328
00:28:54,099 --> 00:29:02,926
I mean, it reminds me a lot of what are now the old like gas stations that are, at least
you see this quite a bit on the West coast that have been kind of turned into, usually

329
00:29:02,926 --> 00:29:06,525
like cafes and stuff like this, but it kind of be a stack they're going for.

330
00:29:06,525 --> 00:29:14,305
As you can kind of see with this image that I'm sharing right here of the one in a, uh,
apex North Carolina, where it kind of offers a lot of services.

331
00:29:14,305 --> 00:29:24,145
And I think what's cool is we've seen this more usually in Europe where there's kind of a
main facility where there could be like a vending machine snacks and other things that you

332
00:29:24,145 --> 00:29:25,585
can access 24 seven.

333
00:29:25,585 --> 00:29:27,465
Sometimes you have to have a good code.

334
00:29:27,545 --> 00:29:33,985
There are other chargers, uh, Tesla ones and others domestically that have these, but
they're pretty rare.

335
00:29:34,045 --> 00:29:35,237
Uh, far.

336
00:29:35,237 --> 00:29:37,969
in between that have this kind of level of service.

337
00:29:37,969 --> 00:29:47,447
And I think it is really a great thing to see more of that just makes, especially when
you're on a road trip, having something like this that even while they have some really

338
00:29:47,447 --> 00:29:53,422
amazing tech and pretty fast chargers, just something that it's, it doesn't have to be
just a quick in and out.

339
00:29:53,422 --> 00:29:54,793
actually gives you a lot of stuff to do.

340
00:29:54,793 --> 00:29:59,567
So if you're going to be at a there for a longer anyways, then you got plenty of options.

341
00:29:59,870 --> 00:30:02,190
Yeah, a couple of things there.

342
00:30:02,190 --> 00:30:07,850
Interstate 70 through central Kansas and Missouri is a pretty tough place to go with an
electric vehicle.

343
00:30:07,850 --> 00:30:10,410
And that seems to be one of the places they've set their sights on.

344
00:30:10,410 --> 00:30:19,990
And a couple of locations, they're calling out quirky things about the locations they're
building into, the largest easel in the world and the largest belt buckle in the world.

345
00:30:20,170 --> 00:30:28,862
And so I think they're trying to revitalize that whole concept of a road trip, a retro
road trip on 66 or s-

346
00:30:28,862 --> 00:30:31,402
you know, that kind of a vibe back from the fifties and sixties.

347
00:30:31,402 --> 00:30:42,562
But as you say, some basic amenities in UNI as older gentlemen don't really have the same
concern about safety, but a lot of the ladies will say that one of the main things that

348
00:30:42,562 --> 00:30:48,802
they want as a basic amenity is some form of lighting or some form of attendant for safety
purposes.

349
00:30:49,022 --> 00:30:51,982
And in the back lot of a Walmart, they don't feel that.

350
00:30:51,982 --> 00:30:58,449
So that's one of the things that IANA has provided is well lit canopy covered

351
00:30:58,449 --> 00:31:02,522
stations that are attached to a facility that's open.

352
00:31:03,023 --> 00:31:15,092
So not only can you go in and use the restroom, but it's also a safe location in a part of
town that is going to be accommodating and staffed a good portion of the time on the times

353
00:31:15,092 --> 00:31:23,979
that it's not staffed, at least you'll have QR code entrance into the facility and it'll
have some form of security associated with it in that respect.

354
00:31:23,979 --> 00:31:27,541
So they've definitely thought through what is basic.

355
00:31:29,278 --> 00:31:36,700
facilities that a electric vehicle owner would want while they're charging because while
you're there, you're going to be there for 20 minutes.

356
00:31:36,700 --> 00:31:44,704
And one of the other things that they have found most electric vehicle owners want are pet
friendly amenities.

357
00:31:44,803 --> 00:31:49,186
And so their stations also always carry with them pet friendly amenity as well.

358
00:31:49,809 --> 00:31:51,269
Yeah, I think that's a great call out.

359
00:31:51,269 --> 00:31:59,612
mean, it's definitely adding not just the safety and security by being in a well lit area
instead of being behind a business sometimes.

360
00:31:59,612 --> 00:32:07,324
And the best case, I mean, I've, I've been doing this long enough and same with you, where
you just see some sketchy things and it's just like, if I didn't have to charge, there's

361
00:32:07,324 --> 00:32:09,535
no way in hell you would pay me to be here.

362
00:32:09,535 --> 00:32:18,447
And so it's really great to just see that and that finally being taken care of and that
experience and being improved and

363
00:32:18,554 --> 00:32:23,008
In all fairness, I could definitely say the same with some gas stations I've stopped at
over the years.

364
00:32:23,008 --> 00:32:28,712
But I think the more proactive that these companies can be about that, the better.

365
00:32:29,073 --> 00:32:39,811
So I think another thing that's really interesting about all this is we've been talking a
lot about the infrastructure and the cars themselves, but usually kind of the connective

366
00:32:39,811 --> 00:32:42,083
tissue of this is kind of that software layer.

367
00:32:42,083 --> 00:32:44,825
And one of the things that I really love about IANA

368
00:32:44,825 --> 00:32:52,790
Is they are making, they're trying to make it as easy really as it can be to charge at
these places and several acquiring the app or some of these other experiences that really

369
00:32:52,790 --> 00:33:02,127
are in my opinion, not just subpar, but can be really big turnoffs for people who are new
to E.V.s or let's face it, there are people who are buying E.V.s that may not want to

370
00:33:02,127 --> 00:33:12,884
Tesla or Riffian that is so tech forward and they just need something that they can get
from point A to point B and having something that's as easy as swiping your card to buy

371
00:33:12,884 --> 00:33:14,235
and charge.

372
00:33:14,237 --> 00:33:23,477
versus having to pull out an app, download all this stuff, I think is another really
welcome thing I love seeing with their approach to try and make this as easy as possible.

373
00:33:23,838 --> 00:33:23,978
Yeah.

374
00:33:23,978 --> 00:33:25,569
And that's one of the first things I asked.

375
00:33:25,569 --> 00:33:34,164
There was an event at the Alpetronic headquarters and I could probably branch off into
Alpetronic here in a second, but they're headquartered in Charlotte, North Carolina, not

376
00:33:34,164 --> 00:33:37,105
in research triangle park, but in Charlotte, North Carolina.

377
00:33:37,105 --> 00:33:47,871
And there was a test associated with Alpetronic hyperchargers with IANA representatives
where they're doing a bit of a case study and focus group sort of thing.

378
00:33:49,012 --> 00:33:52,902
And the first thing I asked when I had an opportunity to speak to someone at IANA is how's
the app coming?

379
00:33:52,902 --> 00:33:54,662
And answer was we don't have one.

380
00:33:55,543 --> 00:33:58,043
There's no app.

381
00:33:58,504 --> 00:34:02,224
they don't seem overly motivated either to get one.

382
00:34:02,305 --> 00:34:14,128
So I think their intention is, as you referred, I recently got a Chevrolet Equinox 2024 EV
2RS.

383
00:34:14,128 --> 00:34:20,129
And one of the first things I noticed when I went to go program in my ChargePoint
operators is that the bottom is IANA.

384
00:34:20,129 --> 00:34:22,290
It's Tesla Supercharger and IANA, right?

385
00:34:22,290 --> 00:34:24,010
Those are the two that are kind of great out.

386
00:34:24,010 --> 00:34:31,728
And I've got, you know, EVgo, EVconnect, ChargePoint, and then the other two, IANA and
Tesla Supercharger.

387
00:34:31,728 --> 00:34:35,841
I think what the intention is to just bake it into all the OEM center consoles.

388
00:34:35,841 --> 00:34:38,564
So you don't, you know, why do I need an app?

389
00:34:38,564 --> 00:34:41,766
All the OEMs are already going to have it baked into the center console.

390
00:34:41,807 --> 00:34:49,893
And they just announced through a press release that through Hubject, they're going to be
doing ISO 15118-2 in order for plug-in charge.

391
00:34:49,893 --> 00:34:51,194
So it'll just be a...

392
00:34:51,273 --> 00:34:58,197
You you show up, could either use your center console or you could just plug it in
initially and automatically start charging that way as well.

393
00:34:58,197 --> 00:35:07,732
So I don't even think I would say, you know, we're already into the point now where I
forgot how many, think it's close to eight stations are open and they've got a hundred

394
00:35:07,732 --> 00:35:08,542
under contract.

395
00:35:08,542 --> 00:35:12,785
We've got all kinds of more ones spotted under construction and there's no app yet.

396
00:35:12,785 --> 00:35:14,566
Nor is there any announcement of an app coming.

397
00:35:14,566 --> 00:35:19,148
I would say we could very easily see July of this year before there's even mentioned of
it.

398
00:35:21,253 --> 00:35:21,513
Yeah.

399
00:35:21,513 --> 00:35:29,737
And I think I'm pretty big when it comes to stop making apps, just make this easy.

400
00:35:30,177 --> 00:35:32,598
I think plugin charges the solution and all you really need.

401
00:35:32,598 --> 00:35:43,703
If you're halfway good as just to have a backend API that as you said, the infotainment of
these, different automakers, or if you want to use a charge way or a plug share some other

402
00:35:43,703 --> 00:35:47,245
app, specifically for just general EV.

403
00:35:47,429 --> 00:35:57,128
Road tripping can pull from so, know, if the site is live, which ones are live and then
even the speed of the actual chargers because to be honest with you, that's really, it'd

404
00:35:57,128 --> 00:36:01,901
be ideal if a lot of people learned that, but there's a lot of things that'd be ideal if a
lot of people knew about.

405
00:36:01,942 --> 00:36:06,276
And I think people just want to have an easy, seamless, easy driving experience.

406
00:36:06,276 --> 00:36:14,961
And I think this really is going to be the thing that really allows it is make the
difficult technical part disappear into the background and make.

407
00:36:14,961 --> 00:36:18,072
the actual road trip and drive easier for the driver.

408
00:36:18,072 --> 00:36:20,643
Don't focus on trying to over-educate them on.

409
00:36:20,643 --> 00:36:21,624
mean, it's hard.

410
00:36:21,624 --> 00:36:32,088
I can't believe how many, and you see this Walter, how many actual press releases of these
companies, some of them that even build the damn chargers that say kilowatt and versus

411
00:36:32,088 --> 00:36:35,009
kilowatt hour and don't even get that correct.

412
00:36:35,009 --> 00:36:42,332
So if the actual companies making these products aren't able to get that correct, why are
we trying to push that onto the consumer?

413
00:36:42,572 --> 00:36:45,123
Sorry, had to slip in a little rant there.

414
00:36:45,856 --> 00:36:52,436
I do see that as well on occasion and I have to admit I occasionally brain fart them in my
conversations as well.

415
00:36:52,436 --> 00:36:53,598
Normally I'm pretty good at it now.

416
00:36:53,598 --> 00:36:54,879
We did it out.

417
00:36:54,879 --> 00:36:59,276
think it's one thing if you kind of say it as like you accidentally slip it or say
something like that.

418
00:36:59,276 --> 00:37:02,721
It's one thing when it's like a press release from a company making these things.

419
00:37:04,104 --> 00:37:16,895
I would say kudos to Elon Musk for the foresight to predict that the need for the DC fast
chargers was going to be where it is now.

420
00:37:16,895 --> 00:37:25,022
he's constantly, he directed his team to constantly stay ahead of it with a economic
component of the sale of each one of the Tesla vehicles in order to

421
00:37:25,022 --> 00:37:28,702
put more charges in the ground as I understand that's how Tesla operates.

422
00:37:28,802 --> 00:37:32,642
And I know right now he's a bit of a touch point for people.

423
00:37:32,642 --> 00:37:33,622
don't watch the news.

424
00:37:33,622 --> 00:37:36,522
I don't really know too much about what's going on.

425
00:37:36,522 --> 00:37:38,242
purposefully prune news out of my life.

426
00:37:38,242 --> 00:37:51,974
find it a bit of a waste of time, anyway, the other car companies have now got religion
and they're now sinking.

427
00:37:51,974 --> 00:37:53,605
mad money in it as well.

428
00:37:53,605 --> 00:38:00,378
So the people with very large checkbooks are now writing checks to put DC fast chargers in
the ground.

429
00:38:00,378 --> 00:38:08,820
And that's really the whole point of what I do on my YouTube channel is let's get all the
headlines away.

430
00:38:08,981 --> 00:38:12,943
Who's spending money and where is this money going?

431
00:38:12,943 --> 00:38:20,158
And the answer it, yeah, where, you know, if

432
00:38:20,158 --> 00:38:29,978
The thought was that electric vehicles are going to cease being attractive and be pulled
back and we're all going to go back to internal combustion engines.

433
00:38:29,978 --> 00:38:42,538
There wouldn't be $20 billion and that's about what I'm tracking right now, about $20
billion getting ready to be invested into North American DC fast charging by companies

434
00:38:42,538 --> 00:38:47,498
like BMW, General Motors.

435
00:38:47,511 --> 00:38:54,837
These are car companies and they're taking money out of their balance sheet and they're
spending it on DC fast chargers.

436
00:38:54,837 --> 00:38:57,949
General Motors in particular is spending money in like three different ways.

437
00:38:57,949 --> 00:39:01,272
They've got a partnership with ChargePoint where they're just basically giving money away.

438
00:39:01,272 --> 00:39:07,407
They've got a partnership with Pilot Flying J saying, tell you what, we'll pay for the
chargers.

439
00:39:07,407 --> 00:39:08,527
You guys just host it.

440
00:39:08,527 --> 00:39:09,648
They're like, okay.

441
00:39:09,648 --> 00:39:14,232
You know, and then they've got a partnership directly with EVgo where they're like, tell
you what, we'll buy these chargers.

442
00:39:14,232 --> 00:39:16,334
You just put them in the ground and operate them.

443
00:39:16,334 --> 00:39:17,174
And,

444
00:39:17,188 --> 00:39:28,594
In 2025, we're supposed to see the first of what are known as flagship locations from the
General Motors builds at EVgo with canopies, like canopies, security cameras, 20 stalls,

445
00:39:28,594 --> 00:39:31,165
pull through all kinds of crazy stuff.

446
00:39:31,646 --> 00:39:38,290
And so that to me is really the telling point of what the channel is trying to get across.

447
00:39:38,290 --> 00:39:45,043
Plus the practicality of being able to see new charging stations in your area, because
it's a very exciting time to be alive.

448
00:39:45,043 --> 00:39:46,844
I don't know if anyone else is

449
00:39:47,058 --> 00:39:52,182
catching the same thing that I am is that we're in the process of being a frog boiled in a
pot of water.

450
00:39:52,182 --> 00:39:54,914
It's happening all around us.

451
00:39:54,914 --> 00:39:59,628
you know, it's Tesla doing their thing and then it's the OEMs doing their thing.

452
00:39:59,628 --> 00:40:04,593
And then there's independent CPOs doing their thing, but everyone's doing their thing and
it's happening.

453
00:40:04,593 --> 00:40:06,854
It's happening very fast.

454
00:40:07,589 --> 00:40:08,939
No, I think that's a great call out.

455
00:40:08,939 --> 00:40:14,771
And these changes we're seeing really aren't, I think for a long time, it either felt
really slow or linear.

456
00:40:14,811 --> 00:40:17,682
And now it no longer feels like that is the case.

457
00:40:17,682 --> 00:40:24,574
There's truly a clear rate of acceleration of all of these new sites going in, new
products being brought to the market.

458
00:40:24,574 --> 00:40:35,497
And then actually different parts of the market actually finding a way to implement this
technology to make it as easy for the consumer to really kind of go to this step into

459
00:40:35,497 --> 00:40:36,857
electrification.

460
00:40:37,409 --> 00:40:45,575
And realized we could kind of talk about this and I I do love what your show does such a
great job of of just like being straight to the facts of what happened last week where

461
00:40:45,575 --> 00:40:53,651
things are and how this stands in the domestic market But I I think it'd be worth kind of
talking with you now that we've kind of looked back about how much has changed over the

462
00:40:53,651 --> 00:40:55,312
past year Just kind of moving forward.

463
00:40:55,312 --> 00:41:03,828
I mean, obviously the big thing we've talked about this along the podcast too is just
around the changes of Navi and good or bad I think either way is it something that could

464
00:41:03,828 --> 00:41:05,021
help sure

465
00:41:05,021 --> 00:41:11,081
But it's clear even with what we're saying that the acceleration fact, it's just happening
either way with EVs and EV charging.

466
00:41:11,301 --> 00:41:17,461
But I'd like to just kind of hear your kind of perspective and takes on how these things
are changing.

467
00:41:17,461 --> 00:41:25,681
What's really standing out to you, especially with all the noise and what is kind of that
signal that you're looking to, to really highlight how this is moving in a positive

468
00:41:25,681 --> 00:41:26,581
direction.

469
00:41:27,588 --> 00:41:39,607
In 2023, the National Renewable Energy Laboratory did a study on what would be necessary
for electric vehicle charging in the United States and Canada, assuming three different

470
00:41:39,607 --> 00:41:42,449
trajectory of adoption rates with electric vehicles.

471
00:41:42,449 --> 00:41:50,594
I think they called it the median, the high level, and the low level, something similar to
that.

472
00:41:51,015 --> 00:41:55,550
And according to them, really the inflection point is when

473
00:41:55,550 --> 00:42:01,550
lower cost EVs start to become available, which is where we are now.

474
00:42:01,550 --> 00:42:20,630
The reason why that's important is because, what is it, 60, I've got the number here, 65 %
of DC fast charter utilization in 2030 will be used by people in multi-tenant dwellings,

475
00:42:20,630 --> 00:42:24,470
assuming there's not sufficient level two charging at those places.

476
00:42:24,584 --> 00:42:34,138
So what that means is that when you get lower cost EVs getting into the hands of people
who live in apartments, the need for DC fast chargers dramatically increases.

477
00:42:34,138 --> 00:42:35,658
So it's not linear.

478
00:42:35,699 --> 00:42:40,721
And it doesn't track what they call the number of electric vehicles.

479
00:42:40,721 --> 00:42:42,902
It's not a linear tracking.

480
00:42:42,902 --> 00:42:48,904
What happens is when you get lower costs, all of a the need for DC fast chargers starts to
dramatically increase.

481
00:42:48,904 --> 00:42:52,937
And in my opinion, we're at that point now because not only

482
00:42:52,937 --> 00:43:04,350
Do I have in my garage such an example of an inexpensive EV which is at the bottom of the
Chevy line of vehicles like you'd walk into a Chevy dealership, the Equinex is basically

483
00:43:04,350 --> 00:43:08,671
down towards the bottom of the line of options that you could choose from and you can get
it in electric.

484
00:43:08,671 --> 00:43:12,392
Not only can you get it in electric, you can get it in electric at a damn good deal.

485
00:43:12,392 --> 00:43:21,540
However, later this year, get ready, buckle up, Chevy Bolt, Bolt V2 or Boltium, whatever
you wanna call it.

486
00:43:21,540 --> 00:43:26,465
is coming into the market and that's going to sell gangbusters.

487
00:43:26,465 --> 00:43:35,003
Tesla is constantly advertising coming out with their low cost EV and Kia is coming out
with their low cost EV and everyone's coming out with a low cost EV.

488
00:43:35,003 --> 00:43:47,293
What that's going to cause is a very dramatic spike in the demand for DC fast chargers
according to the National Renewable Energy Laboratories 2023 study.

489
00:43:50,887 --> 00:43:56,969
Yeah, I think that is definitely a great call out about while we've been seeing count.

490
00:43:56,969 --> 00:44:03,060
This is one of those great things about, think the EV space where you can't really make
predictions looking on the data previously.

491
00:44:03,060 --> 00:44:09,602
There is going to be a big change, especially when you get more of these lower cost EVs
onto the roads.

492
00:44:09,802 --> 00:44:14,323
And I think that's one of the really interesting things about this year that I'm hopeful
for.

493
00:44:14,323 --> 00:44:18,705
Hopefully Tesla releases the lower price thing that keeps saying that's going to come out
this year.

494
00:44:18,705 --> 00:44:19,901
I'm hoping the bull.

495
00:44:19,901 --> 00:44:22,081
And this generation is also successful.

496
00:44:22,081 --> 00:44:28,201
mean, it really does start kind of removing the.

497
00:44:28,521 --> 00:44:30,301
And this is what's also so fascinating.

498
00:44:30,301 --> 00:44:42,701
I think is right now even just take, let's take Evie's Atlas and go back a step, the
automotive market, the average transaction for a new vehicle, gas electric, you name plug

499
00:44:42,701 --> 00:44:43,781
in hybrid, you name it.

500
00:44:43,781 --> 00:44:45,261
There's around $45,000.

501
00:44:45,261 --> 00:44:48,721
I can't remember where it is exactly, but it's really damn high.

502
00:44:48,891 --> 00:44:58,149
And this also kind of gives the point of why I think what's more fascinating these days is
actually the used car market and seeing how electric vehicle adoption and that is kind of

503
00:44:58,149 --> 00:45:00,782
playing out and really hope that that continues.

504
00:45:00,782 --> 00:45:13,183
But by having so many more of these kind of lower cost EVs come to the market, it really
starts going under not just the sale point for an EV, but pretty significantly under the

505
00:45:13,183 --> 00:45:15,901
combustion engine, new vehicle price.

506
00:45:15,901 --> 00:45:24,581
And really starts bringing, think one of the concerns that more in the traditional
automotive industry have had is like, you really need a good national sales point of about

507
00:45:24,581 --> 00:45:27,101
16 or over 16 million vehicles a year.

508
00:45:27,101 --> 00:45:38,021
And with the starting price of so many vehicles getting that high, it is not only just
forcing people out, it's also making the used car market more competitive and holding onto

509
00:45:38,021 --> 00:45:38,761
vehicles longer.

510
00:45:38,761 --> 00:45:41,301
So those vehicles are actually usually in worse shape.

511
00:45:41,531 --> 00:45:49,988
So by having so many more of these entrants in the EV space kind of coming at this lower
price point, one, it's kind of getting rid of a lot of the rumors and kind of a myth that

512
00:45:49,988 --> 00:45:51,969
EVs are so much more expensive.

513
00:45:51,969 --> 00:45:52,540
Can they be?

514
00:45:52,540 --> 00:45:53,250
Yes.

515
00:45:53,250 --> 00:46:00,316
But it's usually when you look at the product line and similar trends and all these
things, especially performance wise, it's same pointer.

516
00:46:00,316 --> 00:46:01,296
Yeah.

517
00:46:02,257 --> 00:46:02,978
Right.

518
00:46:02,978 --> 00:46:04,599
And also that for sure.

519
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,473
But I think that's one of the really exciting things.

520
00:46:07,473 --> 00:46:12,578
I'm kind of curious what your thoughts, mean, so much of what you covers around DC fast
charging.

521
00:46:12,578 --> 00:46:20,045
What is some of the stuff that, mean, especially if you can't talk about multifamily and
apartments, are there any things that you're seeing around kind of level two or even level

522
00:46:20,045 --> 00:46:28,513
one charging or new technology in that space that has you kind of really excited for
what's coming out and what's moving forward to avoid some of these headaches we might be

523
00:46:28,513 --> 00:46:33,182
running into if we, we assume everyone has to go to DC fast charging at that lower price
tier.

524
00:46:33,182 --> 00:46:44,442
Well, I have heard that charging, I'm sorry, parking decks in certain municipalities have
requirements for DC fast chargers to be put in place.

525
00:46:44,442 --> 00:46:55,622
And there's also additional requirements for in the state of California for a certain
number of DC, or I'm sorry, not DC, AC charging ports to be put in and AC charging ports

526
00:46:55,622 --> 00:47:00,902
when there's net new apartment or multi-tenant dwellings getting put in place.

527
00:47:00,902 --> 00:47:02,247
So they seem to be.

528
00:47:02,247 --> 00:47:04,989
solving the problem that way, but those are only net new.

529
00:47:04,989 --> 00:47:15,458
There's, you know, decades of existing that are going to be problematic and those people
are going to need to find places to charge.

530
00:47:15,818 --> 00:47:19,051
As far as level two goes, I'm a big fan.

531
00:47:19,051 --> 00:47:22,684
I like to ABC myself, always be charging.

532
00:47:23,265 --> 00:47:25,486
I find it is actually not

533
00:47:26,236 --> 00:47:29,289
I'm not always charging though, because I typically always have a full battery.

534
00:47:29,289 --> 00:47:33,332
go to and from work on a train and it's a very short commute to the station.

535
00:47:33,332 --> 00:47:37,295
And I just don't really need that unless I'm going on a road trip.

536
00:47:37,636 --> 00:47:40,498
I normally don't have to charge outside of my house.

537
00:47:40,498 --> 00:47:51,308
And for people who are a multi-tenant dwellings who do, I think the thought of how much
time you have to spend at a charger is exaggerated.

538
00:47:51,308 --> 00:47:52,869
And I think that's a human.

539
00:47:53,990 --> 00:47:57,451
reaction to is something that looks to be an inconvenience.

540
00:47:57,871 --> 00:48:00,372
My personal opinion is not that much of time.

541
00:48:00,372 --> 00:48:07,094
I've never, I mean, I can't say cause I've never lived in an apartment and lived with an
electric vehicle that I wasn't able to charge at home.

542
00:48:08,274 --> 00:48:12,575
but, they just put in a Tesla supercharger near an apartment block near us.

543
00:48:12,575 --> 00:48:18,577
And the thing is always full and, you know, people fill up, they go to the Starbucks
that's immediately attached to it.

544
00:48:18,577 --> 00:48:21,650
They go to the restroom, they get themselves a cup of Joe and.

545
00:48:21,650 --> 00:48:25,473
They go on into work or they're coming home and then they go home and eat dinner.

546
00:48:25,573 --> 00:48:29,177
And, you know, it's basically 20 minutes out of their day maximum.

547
00:48:29,177 --> 00:48:32,940
So, honestly, I don't know what the answer is.

548
00:48:32,940 --> 00:48:42,948
According to the national renewable energies laboratory, that was going to be a good
portion of the solution, but they didn't have a clear path for how to require it.

549
00:48:42,948 --> 00:48:46,752
And I know in Norway, necessity is the mother of invention.

550
00:48:46,752 --> 00:48:50,094
So once you have a problem, there's solutions that are presented.

551
00:48:50,173 --> 00:48:54,806
In the case of Norway, came in the form of what's called right to charge laws.

552
00:48:54,806 --> 00:49:04,383
I don't know if you've heard of those where apartment owners are not allowed to tell
people they can't drape extension cords across the grass to charge their cars.

553
00:49:04,383 --> 00:49:14,080
So what that does is it incentivizes the apartment owner to put in chargers in order to
prevent cables from being draped across their property.

554
00:49:14,501 --> 00:49:16,942
So I don't know if that's the solution or not.

555
00:49:16,946 --> 00:49:29,295
And it definitely is something of concern, but I think people are going to figure out when
they have a cost dependable car that will get them to where they need to go.

556
00:49:29,475 --> 00:49:34,919
And they don't have fluctuations in energy cost in order to fuel the car.

557
00:49:35,079 --> 00:49:39,302
And, you know, there's no Middle East war that will get away.

558
00:49:39,549 --> 00:49:48,529
I do want to kind of bring something up because this is actually one of the things you do
track on your show too is kind of the cost of DC fast charging as As you mentioned, yeah

559
00:49:48,529 --> 00:49:57,749
for sure if you can charge at home or level one level two It's so much cheaper than buying
for gas but we have been casting a lot of trends about the cost of fast charging and I'm

560
00:49:57,749 --> 00:50:03,409
kind of curious on your thoughts of that of how you see that as a Do you think that short
term?

561
00:50:03,409 --> 00:50:04,909
Do you think that's just gonna be the new normal?

562
00:50:04,909 --> 00:50:07,701
mean we get a lot of reports now people saying that

563
00:50:07,847 --> 00:50:10,978
doing a road trip in the EV now is more expensive.

564
00:50:11,098 --> 00:50:18,811
Obviously you start getting into the use cases like such as yourself and I even have a
bunch of Tesla credits with my car where it's like, well, yeah, I've got a free charging

565
00:50:18,811 --> 00:50:20,151
so I can kind of get around that.

566
00:50:20,151 --> 00:50:29,814
But for those who don't and maybe as some of these incentives for the charging goes away,
how do you see that playing out as far as, especially for like people in multifamily that

567
00:50:29,814 --> 00:50:31,885
may have to DC fast charge?

568
00:50:32,220 --> 00:50:40,110
Yeah, well, it's an unfortunate reality that taking a road trip in an electric vehicle
costs significantly more than it does in a gas car.

569
00:50:40,110 --> 00:50:41,444
That's just reality.

570
00:50:41,444 --> 00:50:54,501
And the way I factor the math is if you have a 30 mile MPG car up against a electric
vehicle that can go three miles on a kilowatt hour of energy, you take the cost of the

571
00:50:54,501 --> 00:50:57,087
kilowatt hour and you move the decimal point.

572
00:50:57,087 --> 00:50:58,247
one position over.

573
00:50:58,247 --> 00:51:03,167
So if it's 50 cents per kilowatt hour, that's equivalent to $5 for a gallon of gas.

574
00:51:03,447 --> 00:51:05,167
And that's the way that math works.

575
00:51:05,167 --> 00:51:08,087
And so $5 for a gallon of gas, wow, that's pretty darn expensive.

576
00:51:08,087 --> 00:51:08,847
Who would do that?

577
00:51:08,847 --> 00:51:14,847
And the answer is people who could charge at home would do that because I only do that on
road trips.

578
00:51:15,167 --> 00:51:21,507
And when I'm at home, I'm spending $1.20 for a gallon of gas.

579
00:51:21,667 --> 00:51:23,827
So most of the time that's what I'm doing.

580
00:51:23,827 --> 00:51:27,038
So I seek out ways of

581
00:51:27,038 --> 00:51:30,678
spending less and truth is I'm pretty cost conscious when I do road tripping.

582
00:51:30,678 --> 00:51:34,318
And that's one of the reasons why I look for a CPO that has a membership.

583
00:51:34,318 --> 00:51:36,478
The Tesla supercharger was the last one that I chose.

584
00:51:36,478 --> 00:51:39,078
And I've recently chose to end my membership there.

585
00:51:39,078 --> 00:51:43,338
And I'm looking for someone else, either electrify America or EVGO that has very
compelling rates.

586
00:51:43,338 --> 00:51:45,538
But recently there's been a bit of price war going on.

587
00:51:45,538 --> 00:51:47,478
Tesla dropped their prices.

588
00:51:47,658 --> 00:51:53,218
And recently Mercedes Benz announced a welcome pricing dropping down to 40 cents.

589
00:51:54,072 --> 00:51:58,544
And they have the really fast 400 kilowatt Alphatronic hyperchargers.

590
00:51:58,985 --> 00:52:00,426
And who else?

591
00:52:00,426 --> 00:52:02,997
IANA is playing with some time of use pricing.

592
00:52:02,997 --> 00:52:09,111
We're not really sure long-term what their pricing is going to be, but there looks to be
some kind of time of use pricing coming out of them as well.

593
00:52:09,111 --> 00:52:09,991
No memberships.

594
00:52:09,991 --> 00:52:11,172
And I did ask them about that.

595
00:52:11,172 --> 00:52:14,994
And I don't think they're going to have a membership pricing at IANA.

596
00:52:14,994 --> 00:52:21,463
But there does seem to be some kind of price war, and I don't think Ribian got the memo
because they went in the opposite direction really quick.

597
00:52:22,786 --> 00:52:24,278
Maybe they were looking at it upside down.

598
00:52:24,278 --> 00:52:27,071
They're like, we're supposed to drop our prices.

599
00:52:27,573 --> 00:52:28,579
Anyway, so.

600
00:52:28,579 --> 00:52:38,597
guess for any of those who are listening, what in their fiscal league, trying to pinch the
pennies while charging or going on a V road trip, which are, is it Tesla or what, what are

601
00:52:38,597 --> 00:52:44,801
usually the ones you've found with what you're tracking to probably be the most cost
effective if you do get a membership with.

602
00:52:45,031 --> 00:52:49,634
EV go or Tesla, one of the two, and it depends on who works for you.

603
00:52:50,035 --> 00:53:02,807
In my particular case, because I have a Chevrolet Equinox EV with the charge port in the
back of the driver quarter panel, it's a bit of a stretch to reach a V3 dispenser.

604
00:53:02,807 --> 00:53:04,508
No, everyone says it's not a problem.

605
00:53:04,508 --> 00:53:05,141
Don't worry about it.

606
00:53:05,141 --> 00:53:07,371
Just note it's a problem.

607
00:53:07,371 --> 00:53:08,952
I got to get damn close.

608
00:53:08,952 --> 00:53:11,954
You know, if I sneeze at the wrong time, I'm hitting a bollard.

609
00:53:11,995 --> 00:53:12,855
So.

610
00:53:13,395 --> 00:53:22,420
For me, that's one of the main reasons why I dropped Tesla Supercharger memberships just
because more than half the stations I go to are the shorter cables.

611
00:53:23,141 --> 00:53:28,554
And I could do a sideways things, but then I'm taking up three stalls and I want to be
polite.

612
00:53:28,554 --> 00:53:31,125
So I could find other alternatives.

613
00:53:32,346 --> 00:53:40,230
so cost consciousness, I'd say find a way of charging level one, which is a perfectly
viable alternative.

614
00:53:40,934 --> 00:53:42,736
Level one, you can get by just fine.

615
00:53:42,736 --> 00:53:56,431
In fact, I hear most people in Europe and Australia who just travel around town typically
only do recharging level one and only do DC fast charging when you're doing a road trip,

616
00:53:56,431 --> 00:53:59,644
unless you can get a membership and charge off hours.

617
00:53:59,753 --> 00:54:09,610
I think that's a great call it I've actually we've been having to use a rental for where
we're living recently more often and I completely agree with you that while we've been

618
00:54:09,610 --> 00:54:23,219
level one charging it's worked way more than I thought it would I think the bigger
takeaway to me is this is why it's so important to have efficient EVs because once again

619
00:54:23,219 --> 00:54:29,793
you start like you're kind of talking about if you figure you're going three miles per
kilowatt hour then you're looking at five bucks a gallon

620
00:54:29,917 --> 00:54:33,177
I've been doing pretty close to a little over four, which even blows my mind.

621
00:54:33,177 --> 00:54:39,557
And I'm not trying to drive in the model three and even our why lately I was kind of
surprised by.

622
00:54:39,557 --> 00:54:42,657
Um, and I, and I think that's just such an underrated thing.

623
00:54:42,657 --> 00:54:50,437
And I know Tesla's in there when kind of putting a focus on this, but it's something I
would love to see more of the domestic, uh, EV automakers kind of doubled down on because

624
00:54:50,437 --> 00:54:53,417
there is this kind of, uh, I agree.

625
00:54:53,417 --> 00:54:55,557
They don't, Tesla's don't have the best charging curve right now.

626
00:54:55,557 --> 00:54:57,693
I would love to see that improved as well.

627
00:54:57,693 --> 00:55:01,353
But because they're so efficient, they actually kind of hack the system.

628
00:55:01,353 --> 00:55:06,873
And while their actual curve and charging rate isn't that fast, it's because they can go
so far on what's being put in.

629
00:55:06,873 --> 00:55:10,973
And I'm sure this will change and we'll see this from more automakers.

630
00:55:10,973 --> 00:55:22,673
and honestly, that was one of the things I was really, I didn't love the styling of a lot
of Mercedes EVs, but that was kind of because they were putting such a high focus on aero

631
00:55:22,673 --> 00:55:26,353
efficiency and trying to reclaim some of that efficiency in their vehicles.

632
00:55:26,353 --> 00:55:34,658
that I realized there's a bounce with, but I think that's one of the big things that,
especially for people who are going to be charging on level one or level two more, is such

633
00:55:34,658 --> 00:55:39,730
an under, honestly, efficiency and range are my two biggest metrics for an EV.

634
00:55:39,730 --> 00:55:47,966
Cause even to what we're talking about, DC fast charging makes up such a little, a bit of
day-to-day life with an EV for most people.

635
00:55:47,966 --> 00:55:53,266
Yeah, if you're cost conscious, looking for an efficient electric vehicle is definitely
the way to go.

636
00:55:53,266 --> 00:55:54,966
I understand Kia has definitely got some of that.

637
00:55:54,966 --> 00:56:00,306
The direct coefficient is way down there, close to the Model 3 from what I understand.

638
00:56:00,886 --> 00:56:13,186
And if you wish to look for a path to decreasing household budget by lowering your fuel
costs, efficient EVs are an option to consider.

639
00:56:13,246 --> 00:56:14,226
For me, I don't know.

640
00:56:14,226 --> 00:56:16,400
I don't look at it.

641
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:25,399
That way, for me, it's really the overall convenience factor and reliability, as I said,
just a rock solid car.

642
00:56:25,399 --> 00:56:33,357
You you get in it and it starts, you know, I never have to worry about the mystery fluid
on the floor of the garage on a Tuesday morning disrupting my week or whatever.

643
00:56:33,357 --> 00:56:36,783
That's right.

644
00:56:36,783 --> 00:56:40,207
a cool an issue, but yeah, that is pretty rare for an EVM.

645
00:56:40,601 --> 00:56:42,869
Doesn't matter what is you're having a bad day at that point.

646
00:56:43,015 --> 00:56:54,519
that is going to be a positive side effect that's going to dramatically increase electric
vehicle adoption as a result of all the CPOs kind of trying to buy up against one of each

647
00:56:54,519 --> 00:56:55,319
other.

648
00:56:55,979 --> 00:57:03,382
ION has got these things called beacon rechargeries that are going to be like the really
large 30 stall canopy.

649
00:57:03,867 --> 00:57:13,591
every trimming you could possibly want in the center of a Metro somewhere, know, fireworks
going off in the background, who knows what, is people are going to notice those, you

650
00:57:13,591 --> 00:57:19,123
know, Walmart is putting DC fast chargers in their stores.

651
00:57:19,123 --> 00:57:24,395
They've announced it and it's been kind of like a stale announcement for a while, but now
they're actually doing it.

652
00:57:24,395 --> 00:57:31,868
You know, it's actually happening and nothing can advertise that EVs are here to stay
more.

653
00:57:32,092 --> 00:57:43,752
then all day, every day, the super center in your neighborhood has eight Alpetronic
hyperchargers in the parking lot painted with Walmart wrapping and cars sitting there

654
00:57:43,752 --> 00:57:44,412
charging.

655
00:57:44,412 --> 00:57:51,699
And then you go in and you get your sundries and on your way out, you're like, why don't I
have one of those electric cars?

656
00:57:51,699 --> 00:57:57,083
And then you start looking at it, the curiosity of it, and then you realize there's low
cost EVs available.

657
00:57:57,083 --> 00:58:00,710
I can come here and apparently Walmart's going to

658
00:58:00,710 --> 00:58:05,312
have a pretty compelling rate for their charging network.

659
00:58:05,833 --> 00:58:15,118
And Pilot Flying J, know, those are all over the interstate and people are all day, every
day coming in to get gas and they look over and they see this big canopy, you know, and

660
00:58:15,118 --> 00:58:18,220
it's advertising electric vehicles kind of covertly.

661
00:58:18,220 --> 00:58:23,602
And there's someone there sitting there wiping their windshield with a windshield cleaner
and charging up their electric vehicle.

662
00:58:23,602 --> 00:58:28,625
And the person's thinking, why am I driving this car that keeps breaking down when I can
get one of those electric vehicles?

663
00:58:28,625 --> 00:58:30,576
And I think that's going to

664
00:58:30,750 --> 00:58:40,170
that the pervasiveness of the expansion of DC fast chargers of many different flavors,
like I saw on LinkedIn today, someone passing by a 40-sol Tesla supercharger that's

665
00:58:40,170 --> 00:58:41,530
getting ready to be lit.

666
00:58:41,530 --> 00:58:43,470
And he was all excited, so he put it on LinkedIn.

667
00:58:43,470 --> 00:58:49,348
this thing where it's like a, yeah.

668
00:58:49,348 --> 00:58:50,537
as just one little thing.

669
00:58:50,537 --> 00:58:52,820
And I think that's always been true of the V's.

670
00:58:53,281 --> 00:59:03,596
and it's continued to be, I think there's even been some people in the EV community that
have voiced that the idea of getting butts in seats in EVs is no longer as important as it

671
00:59:03,596 --> 00:59:03,906
used to be.

672
00:59:03,906 --> 00:59:07,418
And I actually am more and more convinced that is far from the case.

673
00:59:07,418 --> 00:59:08,629
It's actually quite the opposite.

674
00:59:08,629 --> 00:59:15,931
think the more people get behind the V's, the more you just see that kind of snowball
effect because then they become somebody on a cul-de-sac.

675
00:59:15,931 --> 00:59:17,822
That has an EV their neighbors.

676
00:59:17,822 --> 00:59:23,276
He's like, well, if Joe can do and Joe's kind of an idiot, I can do an EV for sure.

677
00:59:23,276 --> 00:59:28,400
And I mean, that's a bad example, but that has traditionally been how this kind of starts.

678
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:33,583
And I mean, that was, that was a big part of the kind of tactic for a lot of the EV
startups domestically.

679
00:59:33,583 --> 00:59:41,579
And seems to be that that is probably still the most effective way for a lot of the
players in the space to actually get EVs on the road.

680
00:59:41,839 --> 00:59:44,101
And I think that's a great call out about Walmart.

681
00:59:44,101 --> 00:59:44,771
mean,

682
00:59:45,115 --> 00:59:48,908
We're seeing a lot of Costco's now even put in EV fast charters.

683
00:59:49,088 --> 00:59:54,283
And I actually know a couple of the people who work at the, on the Walmart team for the
EVs fast charters.

684
00:59:54,283 --> 00:59:57,095
So we should probably have them monitor, but they're you're right.

685
00:59:57,095 --> 01:00:04,621
They hit, there had been kind of a lot of talk kind of some press releases about it, but
the people who are working behind that are serious people and want to see that kind of

686
01:00:04,621 --> 01:00:05,081
roll out.

687
01:00:05,081 --> 01:00:14,501
I think more of those things and seeing like, okay, maybe I don't have to drive to the
Costco, get the gas and then go in the Costco and get whatever I need.

688
01:00:14,501 --> 01:00:18,064
I can just park it, charge it, go and get Costco and get whatever I need.

689
01:00:18,064 --> 01:00:20,186
And then by the time I leave, it's charged anyway.

690
01:00:20,186 --> 01:00:28,514
There's, there is a little bit of a, depending if you're not able to charge at home and
all this stuff and some of that mental kind of, gymnastics have to change a little bit,

691
01:00:28,514 --> 01:00:37,982
but with the, just addition of having so many more of these places be so frequent and
accessible and just the visibility of it, a lot of those worries start to go away pretty

692
01:00:37,982 --> 01:00:38,402
quickly.

693
01:00:38,402 --> 01:00:41,635
So I'm also very excited for that.

694
01:00:41,637 --> 01:00:44,985
I guess I realize, is there something you want to add there, Walter?

695
01:00:45,508 --> 01:00:46,319
Yeah.

696
01:00:46,351 --> 01:00:56,879
cascading effect that's going to happen here, the people at Walmart are not doing this
because they're civically conscious and trying to altruistically contribute to the greater

697
01:00:56,879 --> 01:00:57,634
good of society.

698
01:00:57,634 --> 01:00:59,671
They're ruthless capitalists is what they are.

699
01:00:59,671 --> 01:01:04,364
They're trying to figure out how their brand can be distinguished from Amazon.

700
01:01:04,364 --> 01:01:09,807
And one of the things that Amazon can't do is they can't put EV chargers in their parking
lot because they don't have any parking lots, right?

701
01:01:10,268 --> 01:01:13,150
And so if Walmart can...

702
01:01:13,215 --> 01:01:19,540
drag more customers back to their stores by putting in an electric vehicle chargers and it
makes economic sense.

703
01:01:19,540 --> 01:01:22,112
They're not going to be the only ones who come up with this bright idea.

704
01:01:22,112 --> 01:01:34,192
And then it just starts cascading to every, every major retailer out there realizes that
it's called monetizing dwell time is I believe the term that has been coined for that.

705
01:01:34,192 --> 01:01:42,318
And once it becomes an economic decision that has viability to it, it just starts
cascading everywhere.

706
01:01:43,569 --> 01:01:45,022
No, I think that's a great call out.

707
01:01:45,022 --> 01:01:51,086
I realized we've kind of hit the one hour mark, but real quickly, Walter, I'm just curious
for those listening.

708
01:01:51,086 --> 01:01:55,673
Do you have any upcoming EV trips, road trips, yourself plan for the year or.

709
01:01:57,694 --> 01:02:00,725
my wife does, she's a school teacher and spring breaks getting close.

710
01:02:00,725 --> 01:02:03,716
So she's going to go, visit her friend in Florida.

711
01:02:03,716 --> 01:02:07,617
And fortunately, pilot flying J is completely built out her route.

712
01:02:07,617 --> 01:02:15,339
In fact, they built out so many stations that she'll be driving by free pilot flying J
stations that she doesn't need to stop by because there's going to be another one 20 miles

713
01:02:15,339 --> 01:02:16,479
down the road.

714
01:02:16,780 --> 01:02:22,021
And, she'll choose the ones that either has canopies if it's raining or is closer to
wherever she wants to go.

715
01:02:22,021 --> 01:02:25,270
So, that's happening her.

716
01:02:25,270 --> 01:02:29,263
Lyric is all fueled up and ready to go once the weekend hits.

717
01:02:29,263 --> 01:02:31,434
That's when her spring break is available.

718
01:02:31,434 --> 01:02:38,999
I kind of burned a couple of, I switched jobs and you only get, two weeks as the new
employee in my industry.

719
01:02:38,999 --> 01:02:44,322
So I don't have as much free time as I did previously, but, I do a lot of car camping.

720
01:02:44,322 --> 01:02:50,226
That's kind of my thing and being able to, run the environment inside a car.

721
01:02:50,929 --> 01:02:53,303
is something that's definitely advantageous in an EV.

722
01:02:53,303 --> 01:02:54,866
So that's definitely something I'm passionate about.

723
01:02:54,866 --> 01:03:02,478
So I do weekend, car camping trips and here in, North Carolina, there's plenty of
picturesque spots to choose from.

724
01:03:03,143 --> 01:03:04,454
No, that's great.

725
01:03:04,593 --> 01:03:06,457
I definitely want to get the updates on that.

726
01:03:06,457 --> 01:03:09,720
Have you done that yet in the Equinox or just the Lyric?

727
01:03:09,801 --> 01:03:10,651
Gotcha.

728
01:03:10,651 --> 01:03:22,206
car camping kit specifically designed for the Volvo XC40 recharge, which should be pretty
portable because the mattress that I use, I heard someone say what you want to do because

729
01:03:22,206 --> 01:03:32,450
you can get the custom mattresses for like Tesla has some custom mattresses and a few
other have custom mattresses, but something called a nap mat that the kids sleep on when

730
01:03:32,450 --> 01:03:34,021
they take naps.

731
01:03:34,701 --> 01:03:35,562
It doesn't deflate.

732
01:03:35,562 --> 01:03:36,840
It's the perfect thing in it.

733
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:40,409
fits well in the back of the car, so that's what I use in my car camping setup.

734
01:03:40,409 --> 01:03:42,162
It should work pretty well in the Equinox.

735
01:03:42,631 --> 01:03:43,221
Well, perfect.

736
01:03:43,221 --> 01:03:46,724
Well, Walter, I just want to say thank you again for coming on this week.

737
01:03:46,724 --> 01:03:51,798
Definitely want to talk with you and the rest of the coast to coast EV team soon.

738
01:03:51,798 --> 01:03:56,871
I know, I guess when this goes live, we'll have just finished last night's episode.

739
01:03:57,032 --> 01:03:57,712
Wednesday night.

740
01:03:57,712 --> 01:03:58,333
Yeah.

741
01:03:58,333 --> 01:04:05,678
So that, that'll be a fun conversation and there'll be links to that as well as Walter's
own site and more in today's show notes.

742
01:04:05,678 --> 01:04:10,371
But Walter, thanks again for coming on and we'll have to have you back on soon again.

743
01:04:10,495 --> 01:04:11,239
It's been a pleasure.

744
01:04:11,239 --> 01:04:12,062
Thanks, Chase.

745
01:04:17,187 --> 01:04:19,519
That's a wrap on this week's Grid Connections.

746
01:04:19,519 --> 01:04:27,677
Huge thanks again to Walter Schulze for joining us and breaking down the latest in
electric vehicle charging expansion from Ionna Rapid Station Rollouts.

747
01:04:27,677 --> 01:04:29,729
The price war is happening in fast charging.

748
01:04:29,729 --> 01:04:32,932
It's clear that the EV landscape is shifting fast.

749
01:04:32,932 --> 01:04:37,415
And if you're paying attention, there's never been a better time to drive electric.

750
01:04:37,436 --> 01:04:43,075
Also, please check out last night's episode at Coast to Coast EVs where I, along with
Walter,

751
01:04:43,075 --> 01:04:47,171
We're guests discussing the current happenings in the world of electric vehicles and much
more.

752
01:04:47,171 --> 01:04:49,543
What was your biggest takeaway from today's episode?

753
01:04:49,543 --> 01:04:54,246
Let us know in the comments and share this episode with a friend who's curious about
electric vehicles.

754
01:04:54,246 --> 01:05:00,510
If you enjoyed the conversation, do us a favor, share this episode with at least one
person who would love it too.

755
01:05:00,510 --> 01:05:05,234
Also leave a quick review on your favorite podcast platform and really helps others find
the show.

756
01:05:05,234 --> 01:05:06,716
Plus let's stay plugged in.

757
01:05:06,716 --> 01:05:09,100
Sign up for our new Grid Connections newsletter.

758
01:05:09,100 --> 01:05:14,749
Link in today's show notes to get the latest insights on electric vehicles, charging and
clean energy trends.

759
01:05:14,749 --> 01:05:18,414
And until next week, this is the Grid Connections podcast signing off.