Sara Vetter: Money does not bring you happiness.
Lynne Twist: Once I met people living in conditions of hunger, there was nothing poor about them. They were courageous. They were innovative. They were loving. And what was poor is their circumstances, not them.
In fact, they were exhibited more courage to live through one day than we're gonna need in our lifetime probably.
Kate Northrup: Welcome to Plenty. I have an incredible episode for you today. It's one of my top favorite conversations we've ever had on this show. We have Lynne Twist, the author of The Soul of Money, and we have Sarah Vetter, who is her co collaborator, her co conspirator in all things Soul of Money and the Pachamama Alliance. These two women are committed to making the world a better place and to healing our relationship with resources, to dream a new dream for the modern world that will allow life to not only continue, but also to thrive.
And by that, I mean human life because the planet is gonna be here either way. So in this conversation, we unpack both Lynne and Sarah's early lives, and how those things allowed them to put their mark on the world and continue to do so. If you have ever found yourself in a state of feeling like there's not enough, feeling like you need to compete with anyone else to get yours, if you feel like you have to manipulate the world to get what you want, if things feel tight energetically or financially, if you're wondering, how do I actually make a meaningful difference in this crazy world? This is the episode for you. These women have sat at the feet of Mother Teresa.
They've been committed to doing the work of changing the world for decades upon decades, and they are about living your legacy, not leaving a legacy. What you're gonna hear today, the steps, the stories, the inspirations are going to change your life, and they will change the impact that you can have. Because while these women have been at it for a very long time, and they've been with the Dalai Lama, and they've been with noble laureates, and they're raising millions of dollars, making a huge difference, that is in you too. And today's episode is a road map. Enjoy.
Welcome to Plenty, a weekly recalibration of power, money, and safety for high capacity humans. I'm Kate Northrup, best selling author and creator of Relaxed Money, and this is where neuroscience meets ancient wisdom meets real wealth strategy. This is the sacred conversation at the intersection of money, the body, and the life you're truly here to live. If you're ready to reimagine what's possible for yourself and for the world, you're in the right place. Let's go.
Lynne Twist: Welcome. Thank you.
Kate Northrup: Thank you both so much for coming on my show. I love having you here.
Lynne Twist: We're super excited.
Kate Northrup: You're ready? It's my favorite inter We love having you here. Started. So we had an opportunity to sit down together yesterday at Relax Money Live for a fireside chat. So in certain ways for us, this is part two, but we are gonna create enough context to draw in our new people, which is way more people than got to be there yesterday.
But shout out to the people who were at Relax Money Live. We loved having you there. And I would love to start with something we didn't get to talk about, which is, Lynne, I'd love to know what occurred in your upbringing around your consciousness of the world that allowed you to have the gumption to go out and say, I'm gonna make a meaningful contribution to something as big as world hunger, and then later as big as the work that you're doing in the Amazon and really all over the world. What has somebody what were some of those formative experiences that created a feeling in you that you could really make a difference?
Lynne Twist: Oh, well, there's so many things ways to answer that. One of the form most formative experiences of my life was my the death of my father. And he died when I was 13 years old, and he was 50, so he's young. And he was a musician, and he died of a heart attack in the middle of the night. Like, everybody was fine.
We all went to bed. I'm from a family of, you know, four kids and mother and father. We all went to bed one night, and the next morning, everybody woke up except for one person, my dad. He was dead, you know, in the morning. And, it was such a shock for my mother who was 46 and had four kids, and he was a musician, and he was the like for the party, and he was this incredibly famous, wonderful big band leader.
I was the musical one of the family. I was gonna be, you know, an opera singer, a ballet dancer, or classical pianist, or I was gonna be something. I took every possible lesson to please my dad, and he and I used to play two piano concerts together and stuff. And when he died, I hadn't been practicing my piano for weeks. And it's so odd to say this now.
I haven't thought about this in a long time, but as a little girl, pretty much, I was 13. You know, when you're an adolescent, you kind of are in love with your your dad sometimes. In my little heart of hearts, and I I never really realized this till later, I thought it was my fault. And I became very religious. We were Catholic, and I went to mass every day.
So there was a whole period there where I developed what I'll call my inner life, my spirituality out of my father's death, probably out of guilt. But then I ended up going to Stanford University and married my dream husband, who I'm still married to fifty nine years later. And I got I got involved in poetry. So that was my next inner life thing, Tagore, Rumi, those kinds of really deep poet poetry things. And then I was a student of Buckminster Fuller.
So there's this whole chain of events when you say that. I'm not really sure what to focus on, but I took the est training, the old est training, and that's when I found out that I thought I had was responsible for my dad's death. I I I, you know, I didn't consciously think that thought. That's when it all unlocked for me. And right about that time, Werner Ehrhardt, founded the s training, end up meeting Buckminster Fuller through some things that I made happen, and the hunger project was born out of their relationship.
And I was sort of the I was, like, the behind the curtain making sure these two amazing people met. And when the Hunger Project was born, when Werner Erhard realized that we could end world hunger, and Buckminster Fuller felt that this was the most fundamental breakdown in the integrity of the human condition. And the two of them met and declared, let's start something to end world hunger. There's enough food for everyone everywhere to have a healthy and productive life. Why are we not taking care of each other?
I knew that was why I was born, kind of like. And I became deeply, deeply dedicated to ending world hunger, and it took me all over this beautiful world. I don't know why I started with my father's death, but it's almost like that was where I had a hole in my heart, and it filled it. The Hunger Project really was and still is one of the most transformational. It's an extraordinarily deep organization.
Organization is the wrong word. Organism and movement. And I learned so much from working on ending world hunger, and I became the chief fundraiser. And we made a commitment that's relevant to your work that we would never raise money in a way that made people feel sorry for hungry people. Because once I met people living in conditions of hunger, I realized they weren't poor.
There was nothing poor about them. They were courageous. They were innovative. They were loving. And what was poor is their circumstances, not them.
In fact, they were exhibited more courage to live through one day than we're gonna need in our lifetime probably. And I had this enormous respect for people living in those conditions. And we realized that that was the heart and soul of the hunger project was respect for human life. And so we designed our fundraising to heal people from the hurt and wounds they had around money. Because we saw that the front hand of the hand of hunger is malnutrition, starvation, a malabsorptive hunger, all the different kinds of hunger that take people's lives.
But the backside of the hand of hunger is the hunger for meaning, the hunger to make a difference with our lives, the hunger to matter. And so we put these two hungers together since they are one, really, and we started doing seminars on money. And they became the source of financial strength for The Hunger Project all over the world. And so that's how I got into the world of money, really, is my money story is more about the transformation of the condition of life than it is about my own personal money story. So there's a whole story about how I got involved in the rainforest, which I told yesterday at your beautiful conference.
Yes. You did. But that's a long one, so we'll save that for later.
Kate Northrup: And I I do wanna just shout out your book, The Soul of Money, and also living a committed life. And that story is, I will say, hearing you tell that story in person is magical, but parts of it are in the book. Okay. Sarah, what was your money story that prepared you to be in the position you have now been for many, many years, stewarding and being a conduit for millions and millions of dollars to be funneled towards making the world a more beautiful place?
Sara Vetter: My many stories I'm a very late bloomer. As Lynne was telling her story, I was thinking, gosh. So much of her stories is, you know, centered around something that happened in her youth. I feel like I'm a late bloomer. So my money story, what really has me be the person that I am now in relationship to money was I grew up in wealth, moderate wealth in these days, but back in the day when I was born in in quite in wealth and privilege.
And my mother was a matriarch, and she was very stern and proper. We didn't talk about money. I just knew we had money, and we didn't talk about anything actually. We didn't talk about feelings. It wasn't a very loving, affectionate environment, but you had to be a certain way.
So I grew up where the exterior was the important thing. How you look, you showed up, how you presented yourself, how you spoke was the highest priority. So for me, I I I knew we had money, but I didn't there wasn't an inner life, really. So I spent my whole life trying to please my mother because she was the one that sorta had the control because she had the money, so everybody kinda tiptoed around. She came from money.
So the money is generational. So she came from money, and so everything revolved around that. So my money story is that everything revolved around the money but in silence. So the emotional things and the things that weren't so lighthearted in my upbringing behind the facade of this exterior perfection got shoved down until my life kind of imploded. So I I maintain that exterior image, that exterior look, that exterior everything like needs perfect.
Married a very, very, very successful guy in the Internet, in the technology industry, lived in Silicon Valley, raised my children, went to private schools. I did it. I did all the things that I was told to do. But inside, I was lonely. I felt alone.
I didn't I I it wasn't like the real me, and it was never enough. I can remember waking up in my multimillion dollar home with three gorgeous children, the private the whole thing and and and being afraid it was gonna all go away every single day. I never trusted it would it would I could maintain it. I could never maintain this exterior, and I definitely couldn't maintain this extraordinary life that to anyone else would seem like beyond the beyond. So I remember living I look back.
I remember living at the time when I had everything in in fear, in just fear that it was gonna all explode, implode, and then it did. I like man I'm a manifester. I manifested it, and it did. It exploded. It imploded.
My marriage collapsed. I have a wonderful wasman. I call my wasman, but it it just it it got to where it got to, and then then it it imploded. And then I imploded. I exploded.
I maintained the exterior because that was what I had done since birth, but my interior exploded. And then I was desperate in searching and looking and kind of the eat, love, pray. And and that's where I discovered Lynne Twist, Lynne. That's where I discovered the soul money. That's where I discovered the work of Patch Vom Alliance.
And I thought, oh my god. I'm 40, 42, and there's actually an inner life. Oh my god. How wild is that? There's an inner life, and I think I have an inner life.
I think I'm pretty good inside there. I gotta I gotta find out to start from scratch. That's why I say I'm a late bloomer. I zeroed in on this woman, and I said, I'm gonna follow this woman. I'm gonna work for this woman.
I'm gonna get into this woman's life. And I I that's how I roll, and I did. I followed her. I got into her life. I I got closer.
I ended up going to the Amazon. I mean, there's a whole another story, but that was the beginning of understanding there's in our life. And then because of my background and and being in Silicon Valley and being so easily entwined in the word of, world of wealth, I could do it. I could sit with a billionaires. I can also groove it with someone, you know, who has nothing.
Like, I'm I'm a chameleon. So I think it was a great partnership here because I wasn't intimidated, and I wasn't intimidated by Lynne's lightness. And and she walks in the room, and it's like you know? I mean, it's just like everybody, like, swarms her. It didn't bother me.
It didn't intimidate. So I we were the perfect partner because I had my own thing that I could be in any financial crowd and carry on any conversation with anyone. I was I was friends with Warren Buffett. You know? I I I love that man.
His wife that that passed was like a Lynne to me before I met Lynne. And so that's our magic. Can be in any room, in any crowd, and we just bring ourselves to the conversation, and it just lightens up the whole room.
Kate Northrup: In your relationship, what I sense that's so beautiful that could be an education for anyone in any kind of partnership, whether it's romantic, whether it's in business, whether it's around mission. All I sense is that both of you have such a strong core, knowing, full embodiment of the value you bring to the table, and also your inherent worth. And I know you had spoken, Sarah, about growing up in an environment where you were valued for how you look and how the world saw you. And I'm curious, Lynne, I know you grew up in a house, you know, led by your amazing father who's a musician. I'd love to know your journey around that inherent sense of worth, and did that take work for you?
Were there moments of crisis around your inherent worth, or did you just kinda come out feeling whole?
Lynne Twist: Well, I had a very happy childhood. You know, music was everywhere, and music is like a bomb. It's like medicine. It makes me cry weak. My mom was raised in a massive wealth, but then they lost everything.
And my mom hated her upbringing, and so she made sure her children were. We lived in Evanston, Illinois. It was the first integrated school system on in in The United States. She was a civic leader. She was head of WAIF, which is World Adoption Infant Foundation.
So she worked with adopting children all over the world. She was a very much of a sorry. Just thinking about my mom. She was just an amazing woman. Yeah.
She was a really remarkable human being. And I, you know, I had ebbs and flows like anybody. The the death of my father was like this huge trauma in my life, and it wasn't until I took the s training that I realized how deep that traumatic experience was. But then in and out of my the rest of my journey, I became what I call a a kind of servant leader pretty early on. And when you're engaged with making a difference with your life, you don't worry so much about yourself.
You don't have time. You're making the world work. You gotta end world hunger. I mean, I I sat at the feet of Mother Teresa. You know?
That's pretty awesome. And I was in Ethiopia, and then and then I had to get home really fast to to be at the spring sing for my kids. And then I watched the soccer tournament, and then I went to New York to testify at the UN. And then I would come back for the you know, I was, like, stretched beyond you can imagine with children and having that kind of a world. And then my wonderful husband, Bill, I'd say is another factor for me.
He's a very grounded, solid, confident, healthy human being. I remember telling someone in another interview, he was the healthiest human being I'd ever met. I don't mean, like, lifting weights or something. He just healthy. It just didn't honed himself.
He came from a really wonderful family, and he was he's just really grounded. I I said yesterday, maybe I said this to you. I can't remember if somebody was talking to me. I think it might have been you. But it's like, I remember this game we used to play.
My kids used to play when they're little called tetherball, and there's this pole, and then there's a ball, and it hangs on a thing. You know what I mean? Yes. And it's like he's the pole, and I'm the tetherball. And I can go all over the world and do whatever I want because because of Bill Twist, because of his strength, his confidence.
You know, I travel a lot, and and and we travel a lot, but I travel a lot without him, and he's fine with that. And he's just thrilled when I come home, and he's okay when I leave. I mean, it's just amazing. And we do work together with Pachamom Alliance. But at the same time, the the stability that I've received from my marriage is just incredible.
So I think that's I just feel very fortunate and very blessed. Yeah.
Kate Northrup: People talk about all the time so much of our success depends on the partner we choose. And while that's not always the case, it's clearly partially the case with you. It is a 100% the case with me. And so I could do nothing without my husband,
Lynne Twist: so so beautiful. Love your husband.
Kate Northrup: We love
Lynne Twist: your husband too. The best. But we will I will say one more thing. When you're really clear about your purpose, you know, when you're you make a commitment as big as I made ending world hunger, it shapes you into the person you need to be to fulfill that commitment. It's not like you have to be all together to make the commitment.
The commitment comes back into your life and shapes you into who you need to be to fulfill it. And so you don't have to so work on yourself. The commitment you make works you into that. And that has been the trajectory of my whole life. That's why I wrote this book, Living a Committed Life, because it really is if you're if you follow what's really yours to do, you stop worrying about who you are, and you just express it.
So that's kinda I've been so fortunate to to find my purpose early in my life.
Sara Vetter: When you do find your purpose around beauty because beauty becomes an internal thing that impacts you externally. Like, you you you just don't have to try so hard. And there's a softer beauty I've experienced in my sixties, honestly. I'm 65 that I never experienced when I had it all, did all the things. I mean, I take care of myself, but there's, like because I have a purpose, I I it's a it's such a deeper kind of beauty that you can't buy.
You can't get go to a you can't get it done. And I know all the things, you know. I mean, it's not like I don't I mean, I like to I like the things, but I like them in a different way. I don't I don't know if there's something about that and beauty that I think happens to women which is why women I mean I think you're absolutely gorgeous but then hearing you and and getting to know who you are makes you a 100 times more gorgeous. Like, love beauty to me is so enwrapped around people's purpose in life and what they what in a way are they getting back
Lynne Twist: Yes.
Sara Vetter: To the world?
Kate Northrup: Yeah. It's the way our inner life, which you described so beautifully, reflects on the outside. You know, if if what we're having on the inside is fulfilling and and filling us up, then, like you said, you don't have to you know, it's it's just it it it's obvious. It's obvious, and it and people do feel it. Sarah, you said something about you're a manifester.
And I'd love to hear more about how you a, how did you find out about manifesting? Then I will I will hold back and let you answer, and then I will ask the next question.
Sara Vetter: I I think in reflection, and maybe it's when everything went so dark and I had to pull myself up by my bootstraps, I somehow would end up on the top of whatever it was. Like, I was the number one tennis player. I ended up being the number one singles player. End up being with the number one coach. Like, I somehow would I just thought it would happen.
But when I focused on the goal and saw it out there, I would do what ever it took to get there. Whatever it took. I had, like, a I had, like, a strength that was so deep and internal. And I think a lot of it is because I survived a little bit of some darkness in my childhood. Like, there there's some things I had to grit through.
That internal strength that I didn't understand, nothing was gonna stop me. Nothing was gonna stop me. So all my life, I ended up in the right married this amazing guy, gorgeous you know, all the all the the people I hung out with. I somehow when I did hit my crash and started to look for the inner life, I ran into this guru. So I not ran into.
Learned about a a guru named Sadhguru. Within three months, he stayed at my house. And he speaks in front of million people. People like to even get near him would, you know, die for him. Within two months, I did everything.
You know? Like like, now that I am in love with you, I'll do all your courses. I'll do everything. I'll follow you like that. I connect with him.
I ran into him at this small event. Next thing know, I go to India. Next thing you know, he comes to California. He stays at my house. He's how I met Lynne.
So, like, that that stuff happens all the time.
Kate Northrup: And what I'm hearing is that there's something or someone, it sounds like with you, it's someone, who lights you up, and you feel a recognition, and then you go all in. So just if anyone's listening for steps, it's kind of there's, like, a little bit of a road map in there. I've experienced similar things, but I've never really understood it until you're saying it. And I'm like, oh, yeah. Because what you did, if you don't mind me reflecting Yes.
Please. I met this guru, and I wanted to learn what I felt lit up by. And so you went all in in a committed way, living a committed life, like full commitment to engage with the work, and engage with what that person was doing. And so often, people are waiting to be picked without doing all the things that would fill them up no matter what happens on the outside. And so that's actually what I hear you describing is it's all available for us right now.
We don't have to wait for him to stay at your house. That becomes the reflection of that level of commitment because he can feel it in you. Lynne, obviously, you know, you told your beautiful love story, you too, yesterday. And and when you met, do you remember when you met Sarah and what you felt about her in that moment or around that time?
Lynne Twist: Yeah. Well, I you can see now, anyone who's watching this, that she has an energy field. We all do. Hers is very magnetic. She's not only physically gorgeous, but she has a lot of positive and powerful and deep energy.
And I that's one of the things that I you know, I think we're all good at this, but I'm really good at spotting amazing people. We have a program called Remarkable Women's Journey, and we spot amazing remarkable women, and then we invite them to be in our program rather than we promote our program and
Kate Northrup: That's such a cool business model.
Sara Vetter: Yeah. Yeah.
Lynne Twist: I love that. We're at a conference yesterday. Oh, there's a remarkable. There's a remarkable. And I have a particular radar for that.
And my I've spotted her. And, you know, everybody spots her because she's beautiful, but I spotted or felt, not spotted, but felt and connected with this really powerful energy. And I thought, oh, she's something. I'm gonna find out more about her. And that's when I invited her to come to the Amazon Rainforest with me.
So we have trips to the Amazon for the Pachamama lines, which I'm sure we'll get to, but we don't just take anybody. We select who we think would be a match for the incredible work we do, and then the indigenous people also, they dream people to them. So it's a very, selective thing. And I saw her, and I said, I'm gonna take her to the Amazon. She's something.
And that was the beginning of all of this seventeen years later. Yeah.
Kate Northrup: So much of this is about tending to our inner strength and our inner field, because as you so beautifully said, Sarah, yeah, there's plenty of people who take care of themselves and whatever and have the skincare and, you know, have a high vitamin d levels or whatever. Right? Good for them. Good for them.
Sara Vetter: And I do that stuff too.
Kate Northrup: Right. Right. And know how to dress themselves. But there is an inner light and an inner power where, you know, my friend Aaron always says game meets game, and you have that sense. And I think so often, we think that we are going to feel that sense of power when we make a certain amount of money, when we hit a certain level of success, when our book sells a certain amount of copies, revenue level, or whatever.
I would love to know from both of you, you have been behind the scenes with billionaires, with people with extraordinarily extraordinary amounts of wealth. What are some of the things that have surprised you or that people may not know, especially given our societal illusion around the fact that there's something there there, and that once you accumulate a certain number of dollars or accomplishments, that you will be fulfilled? What have you found behind the scenes, and what makes those things true and not true? Like, where is that sense of fulfillment coming from?
Lynne Twist: Well, I can start by saying that the society we live in is rooted in a paradigm of scarcity. And that paradigm of scarcity, which we name in our our work in the book and also in everything that we do, is something that we are naming a lie. And that the the paradigm of scarcity, there's not enough to go around, and someone's always gonna be left out, more of everything and anything is better, and that's just the way that it is. That paradigm that I'm describing is the water that everybody swims in. When in fact, the honest to God truth, and I learned this from Buckminster Fuller, is there is enough for everyone everywhere to have a healthy and productive life.
But the scarcity paradigm that's root that's the root of every institution in society is a you or me paradigm. So we're scrappling and scraping and, you know, demeaning each other to get more and more and more thinking there's not enough, and we are gonna be left out. So that mindset is is everywhere. And what we do at Soul of Money Institute is name that mindset, and then actually talk to people about what we call the radical surprising truth of sufficiency. So that's surprising truth sufficiency.
Sufficiency. Okay. And sufficiency is not necessarily an amount. It's a state of being. So for billionaires, they're super caught, like the rest of us, really, in thinking they need more.
I mean, how in the world could some of these billionaires and someone who's about to be a trillionaire think he needs more or even wants more? But the concentrated pools of money and power that are in our society now are destroying everything and everyone. And if there's dysfunction in a family, for example, a family of wealth, the wealth exacerbates and amplifies the dysfunction rather than resolve it. And many studies that I'm sure you know say that after a certain point, you have what you need and not a whole lot more, but you're okay. People don't get happier as they get more money.
They get life gets much more complicated, much more scary like Sarah with her, you know, fear it's gonna all go. And and you have to build gates and darken windows in your car, and you have to have guards, and you have to have this and that and the other thing. And you lose your sense of being human, and people treat you like you're you are your money. So you can't you start to be in a world that doesn't honor your humanity, and you start to lose it yourself. So we work with people like that to have them recover their sense of self, their authenticity, their love for life, separate from their financial resources, and then put their financial resources to work to create a world that works for everyone with no one and nothing left out because that's the world that we can have if we if we choose it and if we create it.
Kate Northrup: Thank you. And then, Sarah, you know, you're working with these large donations, and I you know, you've been in this fundraising space for a long time. What has surprised you or educated you? And, also, you know, you grew up in that world to some degree. So for anyone listening who finds themselves being caught often in, if I had more, if I was in that world of wealth, all my problems would go away.
What would be your message for them? That's not true.
Sara Vetter: Problems don't go away. Yeah. I mean, the basic money does not bring you happiness. That's just full stop. When you get to a certain level of financial wealth, you know, 1%, the five you know, way up there, there's a a loneliness that I've experienced, but I've also seen in in working with people, you know, it just in being around that kind of wealth.
Because like Lynne said, you the more money you have, the more you have to, in a way, protect yourself and isolate yourself and have a gate and all those things. That creates a loneliness. And then you think people want you for your money. Like, you lose your intrinsic you question the true love, true wealth, which is love and compassion and gratitude. Like, you start to question that because you think everybody wants a piece of you, and a lot of people do.
So in fundraising, I think for me in fundraising, that's the big lesson I learned that it's not about an amount. And someone that gives $25 a month is as generous as someone who has the capacity to give 5,000,000 or a million dollars a month or a year. There's no difference. So when I'm talking to someone who are enrolling someone, because I'm not talking to someone, I want this from you. No.
I wanna enroll you in our mission and vision of a planet that works for all, a just thriving sustainable life planet. Like, I wanna enroll you in that, and you can make a difference for the planet and for yourself. It's it's a it's a no brain it's so easy for me. I'm not intimidated by the amount. I'm not intimidated by who this person is or who they are in the world or out in the public.
I wanna go inside your soul and know that you wanna make a difference in the world. I know, Kate, you wanna make a difference in the world. There isn't a person on this planet who doesn't wanna make a difference in the world. With the amount, okay. Great.
That's the thing about fundraising. Just knowing that so intrinsically and then not judging or perceiving someone that does have extraordinary wealth that they're gonna give an an extraordinary wealth. That's the other big lesson is in the beginning, when I came from where I came from, thought, oh, all my friends with all this money, just write me a check.
Kate Northrup: Meet Lynn Twist. Write a check.
Sara Vetter: Like, it didn't quite work like that. I had to learn the mission, the vision. Like, it's a it's an internal process. It's not of I have money. Oh my god.
I just bought I'm gonna write you a check. Those are some of the things that surprised me in the beginning of doing this work or doing you know, getting involved in fundraising.
Kate Northrup: So I
Sara Vetter: know I kinda scrolled around in
Kate Northrup: my own little place. It was was perfect. And what I'm what I'm hearing you both say, first of all, Lynne, when you committed your life to solving world hunger, and I know that the mission has slightly pivoted, but I don't think it has because what you both are doing is solving world hunger on as you described on the other side of the hand, the hunger for meaning, the hunger for mattering, the hunger for the sense that your life has made a difference. And now the primary work of that is obviously through the Soul of Money Institute, but also through the PACHAMAMA Alliance. And so, Lynne, can you tell us what is this incredible work that you all do in allyship with the indigenous people of the Amazon?
What is
Lynne Twist: the point of it? And what is it doing for the planet and the well-being of all living beings? The etymology of the word wealth is well-being, and the works that we do with people of enormous wealth is redirect them towards the well of being that is infinite in their life. And that's really where wealth lives, in the well of being. We are very, very fortunate to work in the in the Amazon sacred headwaters.
So in Ecuador, Peru, and Colombia, the Amazon Rainforest, it was created by the by the rivers of the Andes. The Andes are on the Western side of that continent if you picture South America. Most of the Andes, it's a double mountain range on the Eastern range, Eastern Side Of The Andes, are volcanic and the volcanoes are still active. So the water that comes out of these volcanoes is very, very, very dynamic. I mean, they're snow capped volcanoes, but they're active volcanoes.
So they they they erupt and stuff. So the water that comes out of the Andes really is very dynamic and created this huge river system in the Amazon Rainforest. And it's the biggest river system on earth by far. There's more water in the Amazon River System than there is in the next six river systems, largest in the world combined, actually. And we work in the Amazon sacred headwaters region where the the forest is very, very dynamic, and it's right on the Equator.
So it's the most biodiverse place on planet Earth. It's just teeming with life. It is so vibrant and alive. And we were called there by originally the Achuar indigenous group, but we now work with 30 indigenous nations. The Achuar, the Schuar, the Shiwi are, the Zapra, the Andoans, the Keros, the Waurani.
These are indigenous groups. All of them have their own languages. All of them have their own traditions, but they're all indigenous. And indigenous people never bought into human supremacy. Just think about the original supremacy is not white supremacy or male supremacy.
It's human supremacy. And the arrogance and hubris of our species, they didn't buy into it. So for them, the giant otter is their brother. The kapok tree is their grandfather. The sacred ayahuasca plant is their grandmother.
They live in total communion with the natural world. They don't individuate the way we do at the expense of others. Community is the highest good. And so is the work we do is at the request of these indigenous group is to partner with them, to empower them and support them in preserving the sacred headwaters of the Amazon Rainforest. And from the lessons learned from that, that's our mission, to bring forth an environmentally sustainable, spiritually fulfilling, socially just human presence on this planet and have that be the guiding principle of our time.
So we not only work with the Amazonian indigenous groups and nations, we also do this other work which they mandated us to do. They said in the very first encounter, we love that you're here to support us. We invited you here. We need to understand the modern world so we can survive it. But the real work that we want you to do is to go home and change the dream of the modern world.
And that phrase change the dream of the modern world sounds a little kinda romantic, but it is hard work. It's what you're working on. It's what we're working on. It's what everybody who's awake and conscious is working on, changing the dream of the modern world from a dream of overconsumption and taking more all the time and thinking we need to destroy everything to survive to to a new dream and environmentally sustainable, spiritually fulfilling, socially just human presence on this planet. So Pachamama Alliance has works on the whole thing, preserving the Amazon Rainforest through empowering the indigenous people who are its natural custodians.
And from learning from them, they have problems too, but learning from them how to live in communion, in sacred reciprocity with the earth, each other, and the whole community of life. So it's big work. It's beautiful work. It's deep work. And the word, just to say one more thing, is a Quechua word.
The Quechua people are are one of the groups we work with. And and that word means to them, the earth, the sky, the universe, and all time. Short version is Pachamama means mother earth. But for them, their universe is much, much larger. It's a partnership with the indigenous peoples of the Amazon and conscious committed people like everybody listening to this podcast for the long term sustainability of life.
So that's Pachamama Lines.
Kate Northrup: Think this is obvious, but I just wanna tie it together. Everything you just said is so all encompassing. And then in a very direct way, if the headwaters of the the sacred headwaters of the Amazon are protected and preserved, that has obvious direct implications on the well-being of the rest of the planet and the ability to even sustain life itself on Earth. So that's just kind of one of those core fundamental things. Like, if that were to go away, there's a snowball effect of everything deteriorating in case anybody's not aware of that fact.
Lynne Twist: You know, people might say we work in the middle of nowhere, but we actually work in the heart of everywhere. And the Amazon often is called the lungs of the planet, which it, in some ways, is along with the oceans. But, actually, the important role it plays, it's the hydrological heart of our climate system. And if it fails, the cascading effects are beyond what is imaginable. And the Amazon is getting actually dangerously near a very dangerous tipping point, but the sacred headwaters is intact and repopulated life after the ice age.
So it's absolutely critical to preserve it.
Kate Northrup: I love a metaphor. I live for a metaphor. And and because I they help metaphors help us understand larger concepts that, you know, most people listen to this are never going to go to the sacred headwaters of the Amazon. And what I'm hearing you say is that really is, in many ways, the heart of the planet. I know there was a lot of other things you said about hydrological, but we all know that our body cannot sustain life without our heartbeat.
When and it cannot sustain life well without a coherent heartbeat that organizes our whole system in the synchrony and the frequency of love and authenticity. And so metaphorically speaking, there's that underneath, and that frequency is impacting that greater helping people dream a new dream for the modern world. Mhmm. Okay. I'd love to know, Sarah, what does the Pachamama Alliance's work and what you're doing with the soul of money have to do with the Sofia century?
What is the Sofia century? What's that about, and how does this all tie together in your purpose in in the world?
Lynne Twist: Others have have named this the Sofia century. And as you started to say, when we went from 1999 to the 2000, we didn't just go to another year or another decade or even another century. We moved into another millennium. And we're 25 now in a few days. We're doing this in the beginning of 2026, this recording, into that millennium.
And and and the this first century of the third millennia has many prophecies. Prophecies from the I Ching, prophecies from the Baha'i people, prophecies from the Cherokee, prophecies from the Amazonian people, the prophecy of the eagle and the condor, the prophecy of there's all kinds of prophecy, and one of them is from the Baha'i people that says that in this century, the the bird of humanity, which has two wings, a male wing and a female wing, the male wing has extended in the bird of humanity for thousands and thousands of years. Actually, hundreds of years. And the female wing of the bird of humanity has been folded in and not yet fully expressed. So the male wing of the bird of humanity has had to become overdeveloped, over muscular.
In fact, now is violent to keep the bird of humanity afloat. And the bird of humanity has been flying for the last few hundred years in circles as a result. And this is the century when the female wing of the bird of humanity will fully extend itself in women and men, and the male wing of the bird of humanity will start to relax in women and men. And the bird of humanity, for the first time in hundreds and hundreds of years, will soar. So that metaphor is is the Sofia century.
And the word Sofia comes from the ancient Greeks about wisdom, primarily not only, but feminine wisdom, divine wisdom. And in this time, and, you know, while we're recording this, AI is just, like, rampant all over the place. There's massive amounts of data. We have so much information, and we have almost no wisdom. So we're way out of balance.
And the Sophia century is a century when women, I think, and the female will take its rightful role with men, and the masculine, the feminine will come into balance. That's the prophecy. And also, the call now for wisdom, the call for deep and profound wisdom has never been more intense and needed. And so divine feminine wisdom, which you embody and and which you were so clear about and so such a voice for is just essential for this hundred year cycle, for the survivability, particularly of our own species. And the climate crisis is coming from the mother.
We need to remember. It's from the mother. The climate crisis is maybe not happening to us. Maybe it's happening for us. Maybe it is divine feminine wisdom from the mother coming in so loud, so clear, so powerfully to remember who's really running the show here, that it it's shaking the very foundation of what's often called the patriarchal ways of living, which this metaphor that I just used doesn't make the male ring male wing wrong.
It it it demonstrates how hard the male wing has been working to keep the bird of humanity afloat. You know, I love that metaphor doesn't make anybody wrong, doesn't make females wrong for not extending ourselves. We're we're all in this together, and it's a collaboration. And the word co labor, I think, refers to a new birth. We're in a death rebirth cycle.
And the Sophia century is also about birth, which comes through the feminine, but requires the masculine to give full birth. So the Sophia century is all about that, and that's we we speak about it that in a way to really awaken in all of us, all of us, men and women, trans people, everybody, that divine wisdom is coming through and to pay attention to it because it's absolutely essential for the long term future of life.
Kate Northrup: You told us a story yesterday over lunch that, to me, embodies the ability of divine feminine wisdom in all bodies to get things done in a way that harnesses all the energies that we have available, not just our intellect and our personal will. There's sort of a, you know, that I becomes we instead of me. The story you were telling us about a major full circle manifestation in your life that had many acts. So I'm wondering if you can tell that story, And then depending on how it goes, I may, like, thread some of those pieces of what was going on there in terms of the embodiment of this divine feminine wisdom leading the Sofia century.
Sara Vetter: My Wesman and I were getting the opportunity to move to Chicago. I was in love with Oprah Winfrey. I mean, she was like, I loved her. And then when I moved to Chicago, I felt like I fell more in love with her because she's from Chicago, and she's gonna be my bestie. Like, I just loved I just loved every she was like a savior.
And I didn't know anyone there, and I listened to her every morning. And Wesman was off working and traveling. Anyway, then I get pregnant with my first beautiful daughter, child. And, yeah, and I go we go to the hospital. I don't know anyone.
I don't have family there. I don't have very many friends. I've just we just moved there. We're in the hospital. And Joe, my ex husband, he totally into photography and films and cameras.
I'm like, you know what? No. Don't even bring your camera. This is a very private moment. I don't really just you.
Just you and me. And so you I, like, forbid him from taking the camera. He he knew about my love for Oprah too, though. So we're we're in the hospital. I'm in labor.
Things are happening. It's like, go get me some ice chips. I'm yelling at him, and he's out in the hole getting ice chips. He comes back and he says, Sarah, I have to ask you something. The crew from Oprah Winfrey is out in the hallway, and they are wondering if you would like if we could film if you would film the birth of our child.
For some reason, I said yes. Because I I I really actually thought this would be a way for my mother to be a part of this. I actually thought that. I thought, well, this could be a way. So always comes back to the mother.
I sign yeah. Apparently, I signed something on a clipboard as I'm like, bring me more ice. So what's happening? Where's the epidural? All that.
So I give birth to this amazing, incredible being, my daughter Charlotte. And they put Charlotte on my chest, and I'm looking at her, and I'm, oh my gosh. And and it was a quick quick quick birth, and I look up, and I see a TV camera. And then they whisk Charlotte off, and Joe is talking to the camera. He's very charismatic and blah blah blah.
So he goes home to our apartment near the hospital to kinda freshen up. There's, like, five, eight phone calls on the machine. Oprah Winfrey, the executive producer, the executive producer. Oprah just saw your footage. She wants you on the show, like, right now.
There's a limousine waiting for you outside your door. Can you come to be on the Oprah show, like, right now? This is the morning she was she was just born at 06:48 that morning. This is, like, at 08:00. He's like, no way.
I've go back to the hospital. Let me call Sarah. So he calls me. I'm like, get in that limousine now because, yes, I've evolved, but I wanted to know what I look like giving birth on Nashville TV. Like, you gotta I gotta see this.
Like, oh my god. So he says, okay. I'm coming. So he goes to the Oprah show. He walks in.
At that point, it was ninety nine point nine percent women, and there's one empty seat. And it says Joe Vetter, special guest. Joe sits on the seat. The show opens, and it's Oprah with Joe in the aisleway saying this is Joe Vetter, and you won't believe what Joe and his wife Sarah were just an hour ago. And it goes to the birth of of Charlotte.
It show and it shows the birth. It shows her coming out, cutting the cord on my chest, Joe Holinger. I mean, it was I mean, it was incredible. Incredible. And then everybody they ended up wanting to wait till sweeps week or something because it was such a good show that they wanted to show it in May.
So I had all my friends have had oh, my all my friends in California had Oprah show parties. You know, they all gathered to watch show, and my mother and her all her friends gathered to watch the show. She loved it except she was didn't like the socks I was wearing. That's thirty two years ago, Charlotte was born on Oprah. And then I would see Oprah at the gym.
She invited me to her show.
Kate Northrup: Like, I I now I think I was her close friend.
Sara Vetter: Yeah. And but lots of people were close for her. So then fast, fast, fast forward many, many, many years later, obviously, I meet Lynne. I'm gonna be in her life in a deep way. The third thought was I'm gonna get her this was when super soul Sunday was happening.
I'm gonna get her on Oprah. I am gonna get the solo money, super soul Sunday. Duh. Oprah needs to meet Lynne. Lynne needs this needs to happen.
So I manifested. That was my goal. Everywhere I went, I would look, tap into, is there would get close to this. Oprah Oprah's team called me once. Where is Charlotte now?
I thought, oh, that's the thing. I just, like, kept looking. And then through a series of things, through something Lynne was speaking at, Yana Vinson was at this event who's a very close friend of Oprah. She ended up, for whatever reason, because I manifested, sat next to me. We got in a conversation.
She was the one that helped make actually helped, made made it happen.
Kate Northrup: In that moment, when you were sitting next to Iyanla doing your exercise, whatever it was in the workshop, did you explicitly bring this up? Were you asking her? Or what like, tell me a little bit more about that interaction.
Sara Vetter: Oh, yeah. Totally explicitly. I mean, in tennis, like, slam the ball. I was like we had a process where it was I can't even remember the process, but something about manifesting or, like, what what is the ultimate goal for you kinda thing? I don't know.
We've done some exercise thing. And mine was to get Lynne Twist on Super Slow Sunday. I knew who she was. So I wasn't, like, manipulating, but I was like, this is the truth. This is the truth.
And I had just come from also a Jack Canfield thing was all about manifestation. And in that process, I also was that was my the center of the bull's eye was get lit on Super Slow Sunday. So my my mind, my body, my being was that way. And then there's Ziyanla sitting next to me on the last day of the retreat. And the whole retreat, was trying to manipulate myself to get near her and sit behind her, you know, while we do.
And I couldn't I couldn't get her. And I thought, oh, god. She's not paying attention to me. What is wrong? And then this last day, she sat next to me.
And so that was that. And she said to me, I'm gonna make this happen. I've just spent this time with Lynne. Oprah needs to hear this message, and no one's gonna get used to that brick wall, honey. I'm like, okay.
And so we developed a beautiful relationship, and then within a week, the phone rang. So listen. It's very last minute, but we're wondering, is there any way Lynne could come to Santa Barbara and film Super Soul Sunday like next Monday? Absolutely. We'll be there.
And then this is how smart I am. I said, can she bring a guest or can someone come with her? She says, well, she's allowed to bring one person. And I said, that person, okay. Well, I just want you to know that person will be Sarah Vetter.
Let me spell that out for you.
Kate Northrup: Will be coming. Her name. Know Lynne has
Sara Vetter: a husband and maybe someone that might wanna go with her, but, no, this was gonna be me because this is a full circle moment for me. My daughter was born on Oprah. Lynne is getting on Super Soul Sunday. I'm going. I am going.
So we went. It was magical. Lynne did a spectacular job. There were lots of rules. Don't bring your cell phone.
You can't ask this question. You know, really, like like, it's the normal thing to do. After the Lynne's incredible, incredible time with her, she said, you know what? The one of the producers came in and said, Oprah would like for you to stay for dinner. And I'm assuming just Lynne.
Right? And and but kinda not assuming. But a little bit assuming. Just Lynne, but I'm gonna get my seminar. I said, okay.
Yeah. She can you stay? I'm like, yeah. She can stay. Then we can stay.
Should I wait here? Or she goes, no. No. She'd like you to come too. I'm like, okay.
I'm going to Oprah's house for dinner. So we go to dinner, and she wanted Lynne to speak with her daughters, her African daughters about their relationship with money. She is so present, so captivated. She has these eye like, you're it. I felt like that, and I wasn't Lynne.
You know, I was just, like, incredible. And Lynne, in her amazing way, had talked to them about money, and and Lynne said, you know what, Oprah? I think the most valuable thing would be for them to hear your money story. So we got to sit sit with Oprah out in the veranda with her lemonade and hear her money story. Amazing.
And then I had to go to ladies' room. She walked me into the ladies' room. I was holding this information, you know, about Charlotte. I didn't wanna like, this is all about Lin's old money. So I said, you know, I just I have to tell you something.
She goes, what? And I tell her. My daughter was born on your show twenty six years ago on father's in the living room, and she just stopped. And she looked at me. She said, what?
And she's graduating from college tomorrow, going into the Peace Corps. She's an amazing woman. She said, I gotta leave her a message. And I said, well, they told me not to bring phones or she goes, but do you think maybe do you can you really make can you find a phone? And so I kinda have one in my back pocket.
So I whip out the phone off the cuff. She leaves a three minute or two minutes direct message to Charlotte. I went straight to literally straight to her graduation from there, surprised her. I said, Charlotte, I have a little special message from for for you. And all her friends were gathered.
She had a
Lynne Twist: little party. We put it
Sara Vetter: on the we put it on the screen and had the message to Charlotte from Oprah on her graduation the day after we filmed in Santa Barbara. So that is manifesting.
Kate Northrup: That is manifesting. That is manifesting. I wanna share something that my dad said to me. He was visiting the other day, and he said he was leaving. We were talking a lot about we're in a transition in our life, and we need to figure out where we're gonna And my dad said, well, you've got a lot of decisions to make.
And I said, dad, you know, it's interesting. I don't relate to it in that way. I feel as though what I meant to do becomes revealed to me. It doesn't I don't experience as it it as me needing to make a decision. It just sort of is revealed, and then I do the thing that's revealed.
And that's what I'm hearing in both of your stories. There's will in there, but as my friend James Wedmore had shared this quote, I don't remember who said it, but we'll find it for the show notes. And it is, your desire is your dharma. You can do what you will, but you can't will your will. So there's something in, you know, your path, Lynne, and trusting in your ability to really make a difference through a larger purpose and taking the focus off yourself and expanding your vision into the world.
And then your story, Sarah, and the way you found each other, and just seeing these breadcrumbs that I can feel the wind at both of your backs that neither of you is it's almost as though tell me if I'm wrong. It's being done through you as opposed to your doing it. Does that feel accurate?
Lynne Twist: Yes. Yeah.
Kate Northrup: And that's divine feminine wisdom, and that's divine feminine leadership. So if any of our listeners wanna connect with you both and and the I mean, the work, How can they do that? How can they work with the soul of money? How can they support the work with Pachamama?
Sara Vetter: We do very intimate in person retreats. All of it's on the website, so I don't wanna, like, sell this or that. But we do very, very, very powerful intimate in person retreats as well as some wonderful online things. We do something called the embodied woman, which I love, which I'm now gonna, like, steal and do so many things that you did in that. We do something called remarkable women's journey, and we have other online things.
So One coaching. One on one coaching for women that are struggling with their relationship, women or men. Just exploring there, and we're reachable. You can with the we're a and mighty team. Well, Pachamom Alliance also, once again,
Lynne Twist: on the website, everything's there. There's courses. They're all free on changing the dream of the modern world, on global citizenship, on climate action. Since we're in this wonderful world of money with you, one of the ways people can engage with us is through becoming a global citizen, which is a monthly contributor. And we invite people to withdraw $25.50, whatever it is, dollars from the stream of expenditures they're now making that are may unwittingly be destroying the natural ecosystem on which we all depend.
And we'll help you discover what that might be. Withdraw those 25 or $50 or $75 or $10 and reallocate it to Pachamama Alliance for the preservation of life. So one of the goals of Soul of Money and Pachamama Alliance is to reallocate money from fear to what we love. Somehow, just wanna say this last thing that one of the things I learned from a real saint, he's still alive at a 100 years old, brother David Stendal Ross. He says, the hand that gives is the open hand, and the hand that receives is the open hand.
And when those fingers start to curl and grasp because we're afraid, it begins the formation of a fist. The world we need now, we need to open our hand. We need to both give and receive and understand that sacred reciprocity, reallocation of resources, knowing that we're here to make a difference with our lives is why we're here right now at this really, really rough time in human history, that we're actually in some sort of evolutionary leap. So Pachamama Alliance is a a place where people can learn about how to keep their hand open and not turn it into a fist and grasp and hold on to things. And also, a place where you can learn how to reallocate resources so that these precious ecosystems on which we depend are nourished, and we have human flourishing rather than human devastation and the devastation of life.
So join us in all of the above.
Kate Northrup: Yes. All links will be in the show notes. Thank you both so much. I love you both so much. Thank you for the work that you're doing in the world.
Thank you for inspiring me. Thank you for being here.
Lynne Twist: Thank you. We love you too.
Kate Northrup: If this episode sparks something for you, don't leave it as just an insight. The recalibration field guide is where you turn what you heard into movement. Inside, you'll map your current money ecosystem state, audit what's supporting you and what's leaking, and identify the next upgrade that will actually change how money moves in your life. The listeners who download it and use it are the very same ones who will come back and tell me that everything shifted. You can download it for free at katenorthrup.com/fieldguide, and the link is also in the show notes.
I'll see you in the next episode.