Are Dials Dead?

Nate Joens of Structurely chats with Erik Hatch and Robby Trefethren of Hatch Coaching to predict the future of real estate lead conversion by unpacking the data and numbers around the success, failure and trends of phone calls for converting leads. Then, they explore how alternative communication channels like real estate text message marketing can offer your clients more control and value working with your real estate team throughout their move.

Show Notes

Nate: [00:00:00] Welcome everybody to the Structurely and Hatch Coaching webinar. My name is Nate. I am the CEO of Structurely. We're going to be talking about our Dial's dead. I'm really excited about this one today. I know Robby myself and Erik are about to nerd out and it's going to be on 45 minutes to an hour. So Erik let's get this thing started off. What do you got for us.

Erik: [00:00:41] Hey good to be here with you all we have people from all over the country and in North America. And then some folks may be watching that webinars too or the podcast later. So great to have you here. Let me give you a little bit of perspective is I started real estate team in 2012. We implemented the same model in 2013 and we were married to the idea that I ISAs hit the phones and when ISAs hit the phones they were continually receiving incoming business and then they were sending out and chasing down all sorts of nurturers and relationships whether it be expired listings or anybody who signs up on our website and we dialed until we were dead. We hit the phones and we hammered the phones and then some then recently has started to shift. When I talked to Robby our ISA team and we said what in the world is going on. And I asked the question and I made the proclamation to say are Dial's dead. And it really framed up an interesting conversation that we had and we can't be the only ones experiencing it. So we want to do our best to try to keep people in the loop of understanding are Dial's dead or not. And so the guy who I know to pitch to is Robby t he builds our ISA company in the apartment. When he was in the game he was the top ISA in the country and now coaches the top ISAs in the country. And so no one better to answer the question then Robby are Dial's debt. Whether you're an ISA or an agent if you don't have an ISA you are the ISA and the question is this is has your game changed and can you reach anybody on the phone anymore. I'm done here.

Robby: [00:02:28] So I want to start here by telling you guys the story. When I started this game about five years ago because I think it's going to give a really great framework for the rest of this call when I got the game that it was all smiles the method to convert Leads Online leads wherever it may be. The story was I was calling and calling and call it and what happens is that game is changing and it is changing drastically and we're now entering a phase where there is so many appointments that we're booking. That the initial contact isn't happening because it is happening because of it and the framework. All that five years ago there really was no to use automatic or mass messaging. It was in development. People were starting to allow it. It really wasn't. Yeah. And what we're seeing. Erik you refer to it as a massive shift the balance shift over. I'm now really feeling it and I felt it Robby.

Erik: [00:03:52] It's like yes I've been out of production now for four plus years. So running our team coaching. I've been out of production. And here's what happened. Is this thing right here was my lifeline. As a realtor I would wait if a number called me that I didn't recognize. I thought it was a sign call. I thought it was a referral. I thought it was that next piece of business that was going to have me crush the industry. That's what I thought. You know in the 12 months and especially through the last political season and especially through all the robo dialers that have happened now. I don't answer my phone when it's not a number that I don't know if one of you calls me and I don't have your number saved that's going to voicemail. And if you leave me a voicemail I'm just going to see the text from it anyways and not even listen to the voicemail. That thinking changed. I even think back Robby and this is maybe before your time but when I got caller ID at my house for the night. Yes. Caller ID need all of a sudden your life changed because you knew who was calling and it would tell you. Well now we don't all in it we don't answer again. Right. And that's that's the crux of the pain that we're experiencing.

Robby: [00:05:12] That is because what is happening is let's be real. Phone calls are a method that somebody answers that call. The thing that they're afraid of is how am I going out to talk to this person or am I going to have to get off the phone with us political advertiser or this sleazy salesperson. You're exactly right. It's the consumer now has more control at their fingertips than they ever did before. It's when they're receiving that call and that even if I call you I don't know where you're not going answer it sometimes.

Robby: [00:05:47] Rather what we're seeing is bring this full circle. What we're seeing is the power of an outbound call is diminishing and we'll get to some numbers later but it's dying. There's no doubt about it. And the reason that is is there is a better way. Now that better way is somebody you can have a texting conversation with the first. And this is what we're seeing. It's really a this that the initial idea is this is a random non pre arranged phone call that used to be dominant a conversion is dying and what's happening is we're having to pre arranged phone calls. We had extended texting conversations will we ever get the opportunity to have a phone conversation with somebody five years ago. That wasn't the case now. And here's the numbers for you. When I got this game it was nearly all phone calls last year as of 2017. About 50 percent of all of our appointments the initial contact didn't come from a phone call that came through a text message. So that conversation started that's this year we're trending towards 65 to 70 percent. And here's what I can tell you is I have zero doubt in my mind that that number is 85 percent in the future if not higher. Why. Because people don't want to commit to a halt to somebody they don't know because we live in a world where consumers have more control and more with that and don't want to sit there and could commit themselves to a random conversation that they don't really want to have. Yes but they will have a texting conversation with you. We'll get to that in a little bit.

Erik: [00:07:37] Robby you used to talk that. I know you're ready to jump in here but I just want to highlight one point. You said that Dial's are dying. You're not declaring that dials are dead is that right. You said dials are dying.

Robby: [00:07:51] Dying and really what it looks like is this a shooter. Maybe some numbers on it was when I was making calls five years ago five four years ago. If I made a hundred calls of usually contact about 10 people so I'd call 10 people or I call them to people or contact them when I ran the numbers this morning I looked at all our ISA on the calls that were doing.

Robby: [00:08:18] And that number is what we call a hundred people were contacting three-ish. That's a major drop in efficiency and in fact, thank God for auto-dialers by the way because it makes certainly not with my son but literally a phone call is 33 percent as likely to lead to a conversation as it was five years ago. And again that is going to continue that trend downwards. So it's not dead but you bet. No doubt it is dying.

Nate: [00:08:56] That's a pretty amazing stat. And I know you know I know we kind of talked about this internally amongst ourselves to that. You know I think myself in the millennial generation growing up we we go to messaging first to talk to one another. I'll never answer. Yes I think I said in one of our previous podcasts that the only person I'll really answer the phone for is my mother. And that's just mostly because if I don't then I'll probably be scolded for a while. But I'm curious on those numbers Robby. Have you seen a drop in your ISAs calling in the last five years. Are they making the same number of dials just less people answering or are they making more dials. What's that look like.

Robby: [00:09:44] Because the chances of somebody picking up a phone has gone down so much. The thing had to do to adjust is really two big things. First off you're not using all texting or drip text or mass texts. You are going to be irrelevant by the end of 2019. No not like you have no chance in this day. What we also have to do in addition to using auto attacks through text mass texting is we've had two or all joy and we've done that the dialers of course and there's dialers out I don't know if you guys are up this third dialers now that are pushing the six lines 10-line dials at once, which is really unheard of. Did you do that. Well to answer youru question in summary they were having to offer guidance to contact and create the same amount of  contacts. That's what this whole ISA generation ball game was about the numbers game. And in order for us to generate those contacts we know we. We have to our thoughts and we style on that. But the truth is man this case he has a role in it and frankly we're getting less.

Nate: [00:11:08] Yeah. So I think I kind of wanted to touch on one thing he said there Robby. I think it was in terms of you know if you're not going if you're not texting or mass texting your leads you're going to be irrelevant. I think one somewhat preconceived notion that that is kind of wrong in the industry right now is you need to be focusing on texting your top of funnel leads right away. You know right when someone registers and that's important that's extremely important. It's a way you know as as your number state it's a way that people want to communicate. But I think where there's a lot of real opportunity is in the leads that are more so in the middle of your funnel people that you already know or have already who already know you. But who have not heard from yet and I think you know one of my buddies Dave Anderson the CEO of my LionDesk he he sees the same thing. He met or he was having a conversation with I think his sister in law who is a realtor. And he basically said like why aren't you texting your leads why aren't you texting leads in your database. Go text four of them right now and see what happens. You know I think he said lo and behold all four of them responded. And one of them ended up closing 25 percent conversion rate on leads that she already knew. But who may you know who have not made contact with her yet. I think that's where people need to leverage texting a little bit more is by combing through the leads that are in the middle of your funnel who you just haven't been able to reach yet

Robby: [00:12:43] I'll take it one step further. The reality is is that these are just people right. What other are you don't like you said on the Hill. There are human beings and human beings are not at all. And I guarantee most of them are going to stay or to be more likely it's easier for them to actually get them back. Oh by the way. Voicemails what was the last time any of us listened to a voicemail somebody just bought. And I don't know a lot of Voice Mails along those lines those things get deleted like that. I think it really lowers your contact ratio especially if it's very stable. The old leads people know that so. So I think I think I agree with you 100 percent we shouldn't be sending one text right away using texting as your strategy. It used to be a part of our strategy and now it's intrinsic useful. Everything we do is the foundation for what these are are old leads. Everything is getting texted if I can it is getting texted.

Nate: [00:14:03] And kind of touch on that point then a little bit more. Do you think that in today's world every generation of consumers millennials boomers etc.. Do you think everyone's starting to move towards text or you know just the millennials and younger

Erik: [00:14:21] They jump in with that. Because it's interesting my my parents and grandparents aren't alive but my mom's sister my aunt is 78 years old and she's the person who still says that she is going to go record something on her VCR even though she's really talking about her DVR right and she's she swore that Facebook and text messaging were the worst things possible she's in her previous job. She refused to adopt a computer and so used a typewriter. She is the one to be older baby boomers so she is about the the highest. She's an old 78 you know what I mean she's a she's an old soul and what she does is she text me. And Facebook's all the time. Because she has now adapted to stay in contact and in touch with the rest of the world because if she doesn't innovate on those two things she's no longer communicated to by her kids and her grandkids and that's not OK. Oftentimes people have resisted technology because they didn't want to adapt and adapt to their jobs. Well technology now is in our personal lives. And so that's the way that we're going to get those older generations to adopt them. They are at a rapid speed. And it's why people are fleeing from things like Facebook because now it's your grandma and your aunt and your mom that are on Facebook and it's not your peers necessarily. I mean Facebook still dominant it's still the biggest social media thing that's out there. But I would I would add to the argument here Robby and Nate that Dial's yes they are dying. So texting and Facebook messaging are going to be really really important things to consider as you grow your businesses.

Robby: [00:16:10] Yeah I want to add to that as well I think you're hitting it on the head. Are we really thinking about why this behavior has shifted and really I think you hit on the head it started with social media and we think about most of the social media ways we engage with or people who are commenting on their friends and what's happened is as people like their Aunts are getting on Facebook they're engaging in people via text messages. Right. Well let me call it text for Facebook message. Really it's just sending a message via words which is text and that is the finding the behavior. That was the beginning of the behavior you're making it so it started with a bunch of young millennials like myself. And then because I think there's a better way of making it spread all the way up the pyramid to darn near everybody is doing. Yes because it's more convenient. It's a better way to communicate.

Nate: [00:17:18] It's why you need to drill down on that a little bit. Why do you think it's more convenient. I think like to offer my answer to that it's texting is convenient for me because I can multitask. I don't like you know like what Erik said to start I don't have to make the commitment to five minutes of you know getting a sales pitch. We're all busy people and I can multitask when I text. Right. Is that where you feel too.

Robby: [00:17:50] I think even more than that I think the word control is today's consumers more control over their whole lives. One really cool example of this is look at our radio compare it to a Spotify or Amazon Music. People are willing to pay a fee to avoid hearing ads not wanting here and the happened so really content they consume. I think a phone call is a commitment and you lose control of it all. And what I mean by that is I might spend the next five 10 minutes speaking to somebody when I have something else I need to get the other pieces. This is what that text message can carry on a conversation. Right now a lot of we're going to text you back 30 minutes from now. It needs consumer control to stop and start what I want as opposed to 10 minutes or even longer. So they were brought up babies and it does allow me to have a conversation that's more convenient because I can text you about text during this webinar are not doing what I could that I could take back what I'm doing something.

Nate: [00:19:10] Yeah I feel my phone going up right now I not being texted but I don't have to make the commitment because I'm already committed to this. What I know you know the terms of control through messaging you know looking back at when we were having the phone calls you could. It's what you coach to Robby went with ISAs to dig deeper into conversations ask why get to know get to know the person not the property and build a relationship. Do you think you can have that level of conversation through a text message.

Robby: [00:19:48] I you think you could. It's as if there's one thing my ISA department is probably wrong with that. What's crazy I like numbers. So when this texting trend started to happen let's say about 3 4 years ago when we got texting what we noticed was I would text you Nate and you get a text back and forth maybe three or four times and it was very surface level. And then what would happen if we would transition the conversation to get on the phone. Now what is happening is this is our ISA days and a lot of cases are exchanged 15 20 25 30 40 text messages back and forth, before we get on the phone with the lead because we're we're we're a lot of their story. Don't get me wrong not finding out everything. What is crazy about people that are willing to share a very private information via a text message whether it's telling you they're going through a divorce. If anything, I think I actually think that because it takes away a little bit of a distance from the vulnerability it allows them to type something up without the fear that judge them and they type it up and they said no we're just crazy we're saying you won't open up about that stuff all the time. And I think it's because that's the normal now isn't it.

Erik: [00:21:19] Here's here's here's the even bigger normal. We have a team member who has a daughter that's 10 years old and he told the car ride that he had with her. And as he was riding like he kept practicing what's going on what's going on. And she said no I'm fine. I'm fine now I'm fine. And what happened is when he got out of the car when she got out of the car and he dropped her off at school he had a text message from her actually communicating her emotions. And there's this massive shift we're right now your generation my generation we're used to that emotion face to face and the only way we know how to best communicate it and we are seeing a major shift all the way over here and the younger they are the more likely they are to be able to open up through technology and through texting rather than look like we are just scratching the surface of what's coming. And we as realtor and team leaders have to be ahead of this communicating the way which people want to be communicated with. And we're all behind the eight ball right now yes that's right.

Robby: [00:22:25] I think dollar pieces of that. I heard somebody say that emoji is what's communicating feelings these days and it's so unbelievably true. What I think you're dead on Erik. It's that younger people. And my wife is a school counselor and a elementary school or middle school i should say. And these kids are a lot more comfortable texting about these things than they are speaking to somebody about them. Now they will speak somebody speak to somebody that they watch from text about it first.

Robby: [00:23:03] It used to be you would talk about then text about it later. And now it's shifting to you text about it first and then talk about later. It's literally just flipping everything are just crazy. But you're right.

Nate: [00:23:16] I mean I can tell you from. You know what. We handle it Structurely which is thousands of text conversations a month. And we we looked through them. I see books paragraphs of messages that people send in outlining their entire life story from the day they were born. And it's amazing to us to be able to see how much people are willing to offer in just a simple text message with essentially a stranger which is crazy. So I mean I don't I don't think that anyone here should be scared to ask those questions. When you're texting don't don't shy away from that and kind of to that point. Go ahead Erik.

Erik: [00:24:03] Quickly. I see you're transitioning here. There's there's a gaping hole and Robby. This, Michelle made a joke about the horse doctor role playing that I know we've done in the past is one of our one of our ways to role play what we haven't done and this is an ownership piece Hatch Realty and Hatch Coaching is we haven't started roleplaying our text messages. Think about that. There is there is a hole in our system right now because we emphasize roleplaying so much that we practice not on our clients what we practice on each other and all of us ourselves included are not practicing this role and text messaging unless you can tell me you are Robby you just have told me about it yet.

Robby: [00:24:45] I would say that roleplaying it in person. I actually think is pretty much the same thing. I think what you want is as a voice of voice is what you would ask via text messages are the same thing. I think it's a different habit. Your 100% right and getting used to it.

Erik: [00:25:04] We haven't had less of text messages what I'm what I'm getting towards is a mode and tonality you can you can say I'm a guy who was a super High D and so I oftentimes write one line emails one line text messages the fact that we don't put anything in this in the in the body of the e-mail it's just in the header and people think I'm pissed but I'm not pissed I'm just efficient. And what we have to do is we have to figure out how are we role playing and getting better at this so that we're mirroring and matching this person instead of them having to adapt to our ways.

Robby: [00:25:42] And realistically it's the same thing we teach oncall is somebody sending you very short incorrect answers. You better not send them a paragraph. You know the sound of short of direct questions back. So yeah I mean mirroring and matching all these skills are going to be the same thing. Now the big thing that I'll say is this is that. I believe one of the biggest things that human beings wants is they just simply want to be heard understood and valued. And you don't do that through the things you say you do that to asking questions and just simply asking questions allows people to feel that feeling of feeling heard or understood. So I think it's super great you bring up a good point, Erik with text messages.

Erik: [00:26:36] Really really it's a piece that we have to start practicing more of because my efficiency is me being a total prick to somebody else.

Robby: [00:26:47] I've seen some of those frustrating at least on it there on the spot Robby.

Nate: [00:26:53] Are there any I know some a few people have asked for you know examples of text messages. Do you have any you know auto text messages that you guys sent out to you that uses examples. I know I can share a few too.

Robby: [00:27:12] I think why I want to play to this as more of a principle. I learned that for a start don't ever send information to somebody via text they don't care about a lot that day gone and that if they're wanting information they can go to Google that I know that's rather what we've learned is all of our auto texts are always asking short simple questions. There are never more than maybe two sentences and even less probably too long to be honest. All right. Questions not statements questions not statements. Absolutely. And you should always take some of these answers and turn it into your next question. But you know some simple ones I'll share what we sent to you. Maybe somebody has a follow up. We've all obviously a lot of people have are about our initial 10 days of messages. If you want those let us know. Message me I'll get them to you again a short, sweet and to the point. But one that's really all is for somebody that's a lead that I'm following up with. So let's say you and I spoke to each other one year ago. You're retiring from your job about two years and think about selling and buying, this audio message would go out about six months after you and I spoke. I know what I would say to the effect of Hey we spoke a little while back and at that point you weren't interested in buying wanting to follow up and see if your plans changed at all. And what's great is it's so open ended is that sometimes you get a text back and say no plans are going to go.

Robby: [00:28:48] And in that case they feel like you're following up which most people in real estate don't do or you'll get them to text back and say, "Actually I I'm can call me today. I need a sell my home as soon possible". Questions short questions like that identifying why we're studying it and then moving on. And you've got to keep it with the auto and mass texting and you get to keep it so generic but open ended enough that it relates to them.

Nate: [00:29:18] Yeah I think that's the perfect way to put it generic in open ended. I think so many things that we so many problems that we see with you know with other automated messages that the industry is trying to create. Is it's a statement like if I got a message it's just like hey I'm here to help you. What. What am I going to do with that. What do you want from me as a consumer. What. What are you asking me to do. I don't I don't know where to take this conversation and that's that's a pet peeve of mine, always ask a questions because a lot of your consumers they they need you. They need to be guided. They need your help. And if you don't give them an opportunity to take your guidance then they'll have no idea where they're going and they'll just leave or not answer. So I think that's been a huge piece to our to our engagement the.

Erik: [00:30:09] Nate it's an open ended question as well. The question is "are you looking to buy a house." Because if they say no then you're done right. I used to. I used to do youth ministry and worked a lot of middle school kids and I learned to have perfected the art of just asking really great questions because if you ever want to find somebody who never wants to talk to you ever is an eighth grade boy. Right. And to be able to dive it into asking tough questions to try to actually get them to start opening up is the same game that we play in real estate every day. It's trying to get somebody to talk about something that they didn't think that they wanted. Now in college I used to work at the Gap which is why I am so fashionable. And what I see is I would see a lot of people walk in they were greeted with Hey can I help you find something. And when anybody asks you that in a retail setting your answer. Now I'm just looking right all the time. And yes this is high fashion. Thank you for noticing. But the truth is when I when I would greet people because I knew what to look for I would greet them and I'd say hey what brings you in today. Who are you shopping for. Like that question of who you're shopping for is a specific who it's either me or they may just say just look and then oh what are you looking for. Right. And so there's questions and there's so many things in our lives that can relate to this real estate. But what happens is when we jump into this we think that we have to become these robots that are business esque that are trying to sell houses. And it's all worth less. What we need to do is to connect with people and now we're seeing that connecting on the phone is harder than ever.

Erik: [00:31:54] And so we have to be able to connect via text message.

Nate: [00:31:56] Robby I love your entire the intro message most that I know you guys coach on and calls and I'm pretty sure that your first text messages , what is that?

Robby: [00:32:15] Yes I would go like this. "Hey Nate I saw that you were looking at 123 Main Street on Zillow. And you know I just wanted to reach out Nate and see if maybe you're looking for fun or see if you want to buy a home in the near future." And one or two items always comes up you know the look for fun. Right. And then what I do. OK. Why are you looking for fun? Boom, wide open. Right, or they say they're looking to potentially buy a home or make a move, whatever the story is and I live buy the rule. Tell me more.

Robby: [00:32:47] And truly if there's one thing that I can't hammer enough, you want people to open up to you if you want to get to the root of what people or what's really motivate people. It's this idea of living in the idea of "tell me more". Brenee Brown talked about this when we we're down at a conference in Vegas a few weeks back and she's a lot more direct than I am and she just says "say more to people". And it's all the same idea. It's literally just giving someone the time of day to open up and tell you more about what they're looking to do and it's not me trying to say you should do something now. If I do that that Nate you're going to check out immediately. You're going to hang up on me. Or not text me back by the way that's the other thing as it's so much easier for somebody not to text back to ghost you. On the phone people kind of feel a little bit of guilt, just to hang up on a salesperson get text message.

Robby: [00:33:44] The other thing you hold them to not tie them to you.

Nate: [00:33:48] But that's why that's why those engagement messages are so important and you have to ask. You have to ask your question or they'll continue to ghost to you. I know I know one question that we've seen kind of here in that Sasha kind of touched on there Randi touched on earlier in the chat. Do you think that you can leverage text messaging to set a phone appointment. Are those the new appointments.

Robby: [00:34:13] Do you mean as setting an appointment with one of my agents. If I'm an ISA I'm vetting I'm having the conversation is that what we're getting out is can I think your question spot Nate.

Erik: [00:34:26] I think what you're asking is are we missing a metric in how we say because we have we have set appointments and then kept appointments. But before that appointment is there a set phone call that's now going to be added to that metric.

Robby: [00:34:41] Yeah I think that's that's where I see things going. Well what I alluded to earlier that most consumers are engaging via text message. I think the idea of and outbound call has faded. Eventually it will be for all intensive purposes it will be dead. I don't know when that will be but sometime at that point it's going to be you have a texting conversation with somebody whether it's via snap chat or via Facebook messenger or texting whatever vehicle it is and then it will be used for you arranging a call either for yourself for somebody to begin.

Nate: [00:35:20] Yeah I think in some of the latest on that out earlier it structurally.

Nate: [00:35:25] I made the claim that texting is the new cold calling you guys agree with that?

Robby: [00:35:35] Yes.

Nate: [00:35:37] And I think really I think what I really mean by that is you know and I know the storm make calls.

Nate: [00:35:42] It's still important. People will still answer the phone. That's why we're saying it's dying not dead. I think I think what my point is is that you need to set the. You need to set the phone call via text first. And that's that's a new step in the funnel that you need to continue to leverage and to kind of touch back on my point earlier. What I mean a little bit by you know text messaging is the new cold call you can use text messaging to engage your your middle of the funnel leads people who again have not heard from you or have not made contact with you yet. You typically go out and try and dial through a list of you know whatever 500 calls in a day. Why not just set than 500 text in a day. That's what I mean by the new cold call.

Robby: [00:36:38] I want to add to that and this is what excites me about this and we've been doing is you can't really automate phone calls.

Robby: [00:36:47] And what I mean by that is this is automated phone calls maybe to reduce the amount of time you have to wait until somebody answers but me as a human has to sit there and make the calls right. And it's very time intensive. And the most valuable resource on all of this is frankly my time, an ISAs time somebody's time. What I love about this change is simply this. That you can leverage technology to replace a lot of this messaging that is taking place and most CRMs are on board they have auto messages they can send out. And truly it's this whole idea of to work smarter not harder. And that's why I'm excited about this change. I think it's a good change as long as you are willing to adapt with it which you're going to be forced to or you're going to be gone. But I think great. And I think it's you know we are talking about texting here.

Nate: [00:37:51] It's obviously it's obviously the new wave that's coming. What one con that I know we see and it is something that we've seen when I talked to David CEO at LionDesk, is it's a good problem to have when you send out a mass text to 200 of your you know old leads in the middle of your funnel. A hundred of them might respond almost on the spot and you're completely completely overwhelmed. I know that your ISAs are dealing with that and I know that that the overwhelming nature of those responses don't stop there. It's it's ridiculously hard for your ISAs to to have probably 20 30 50 to 100 simultaneous text conversations going at the same time. Is there anything that they can do to you know take some of that off their plate.

Robby: [00:38:45] Yeah. So what I want to address what you just said Nate, and say amen for say it because it's so unbelievably true.

Robby: [00:38:52] Generally if we send out a text message our response rate is 25 to 30 percent. Some texts perform higher than others some are lower, whatever the story may be. That's what happens is you hit it on the head. I send it out to 500 people a 25 percent response rate. I'm not just getting one way responses by the way. It's now I've got to have 25 people's conversations going back and forth back and forth back and forth. So here's one thing we've learned that you have to do.

Robby: [00:39:26] First off when you're texting somebody the trigger the psychological trigger for me as an ISA to respond to you you Nate, is always when I get a text message right. That's how we communicate. We're my texting back and forth. I remember to text you back because you just texted me back. Here's the thing with people we need to understand is that people aren't going to text me back not because they don't want to but because our phones we are fighting so much noise. Facebook notifications. Twitter with news notifications fantasy football notifications. And there's so much noise that can lead to somebody not responding to you. So a simple thing we're going to do is let's say, Nate, you and I are texting I send you an auto message and it goes out to you and you respond. We've learned you have to schedule a follow up for the day or the day following. That way you forget to text me back. I remember to re-engage the conversation. Now i've created a psychological trigger. That's what we're doing here. So there's little  things like this. Lets say Nate and I we're sharing 10 15 texts back and forth I send him one at 8:00 p.m. tonight and tomorrow passes and Nate you don't respond to me. That doesn't mean Nate hates me. What it might mean is Nate is having a busy day and hasn't texted me back. I'm goint to send a little text like this "let me know if you have any questions Nate." And a little text like that, this is what it does. Imagine, pull your phone out and look at it quick. What that does is you get a little notification on your phone that says, "Oh this person sitting right there." The funny part is there a lot of people that have already started writing their response. And guess what's sitting there, when they see you texted back. In the text message was what they were starting to text to you, but they got distracted because there was some fantasy football score on Monday night by Antonio Brown or whatever story may be right. You've got to set a follow up that is your safety net to make sure those things don't slip through the cracks. And if you don't do this, I guarantee, no offense to all of you, you're not smart enough to remember all these opportunities.

Nate: [00:41:49] So yeah I can't you I know that scenario will happen when you finally get that lead on the hook. You finally get them to respond to your fifth Drip message. They're having a great conversation but then it stops. We that's why we introduced a feature called Re-Drips and it has been life changing. It's the it's exactly what you said there. It's sending a text message to a lead that's already engaged but who as we say fell off the face of the earth which happens all the time. They simply they want to have that conversation but they can't they just forgot about it. They're busy. That's kind of again a con of texting is that it's so multitask that people are doing 50 things at the same time and you probably don't get that text message doesn't take priority. But that simple. It's that simple nudge message that says hey you know oh and this is one of my other favorite things happened back to the scripts in one of our favorite things to say in our text messages is "Hey I just want to make sure I'm not dropping the ball. I didn't hear back from you yesterday by the way what was the what was the price range you're looking for?" The "I just want to make sure I'm not dropping the ball" has been so so huge for us. I can't tell you how many times I see people respond and say "Oh you're not dropping the ball I just got so busy I'm looking for a house under 200 k." It's huge and it's a little bit guilting them into it, be careful. It's really not guilting them into it because they were just genuinely busy. I know one one of the text messages that I think might be in that that 10 10 day message script that you that you haven't Leads Geeks Robby, is something along the lines of "Hey can you just respond if you are abducted by an alien or eaten by an alligator or something like that. I love that one."

Robby: [00:43:53] So yeah that's one of my favorites. I actually got the idea about four years ago first getting in the texting ball game, and I kind of augmented it. Somebody had a wolves one. Where it was "did you get eaten by wolves." But instead of course I'm nerdy hence the glasses and being a Lead Geek. We did the abducted by aliens and we only send that out as to people that received a ton of other messages from us and a ton of other attempts. And the contact rate is stupid it's one of the highest in the last message we sent. And I think it's because it's so different. It's funny, it gets people laugh and it gives them an option the three different options I forget exactly what they are basically they say yeah I got abducted by aliens or I'm still interested or just been busy. Here's the thing. I think we just need to realize with these people is they're just people. And I try throughout this process, to do one thing and it's put myself their shoes and what are the things that I would read or would get me to respond and that's it. And hear's what I can tell you, if you're sending wrong information nobody is going to read it, it's pointless. Don't waste your time. If you're sending something that's out of the box they have'nt seen before they're probably going to respond. If it's short and simple. I'm going to respond. And the other big thing is you kind of you said it is kind of guilting somebody and i think really honestly the verbiage we use is reminding people. Because we've all done this. Nate I've been sending you a text and I've forgot to press send. I've been texting my mom back before I forgot to press send. We've all done that and it's just a simple reminder. A little nudge, trigger whatever you want to call it. Get them back to the front of the mind again. You noise out there he's out. The phone is no longer where you call and text that ended years ago with so much noise. And we have to constantly be fighting through that noise and it's little things like you said sending a message just like heck honestly you could probably send a text letter with the letter a and it might even work.

Nate: [00:46:04] It kind of bumps at the top and I'll do it. I see that use in e-mails a lot is that some people would say like I'm bumping this up it gets my now responded usually because I just forgot. I'm so kind of on that then one of the last questions that Rick just asked to is again we don't want to say go you know spend all your time texting. What what should the balance look like between e-mails texts phone calls. How do you make the most of texting in your follow up.

Robby: [00:46:34] I I would say it is that when a lead comes in we still try to call right away because your first call is your highest answer rate. What I think is really really dying and some leads need to be spoken to right away and they're going to answer the call. What I think is dying is anything beyond that second or third call. Is it just the contact rates are are diminishing. The whole law of diminishing returns. So I still think we need to call a lead, from there you need to send a text immediately and we use the same thing you do the six minute text, and I think it's the same thing that we're talking about. So if you signed up today Nate, right now you'd get a call from one of my ISAs, you'd get a text and email if you didn't answer and then we would send you a six minute text. And everyone's like well don't people get pissed? I think more people get pissed if you don't call and that's everybody's biggest issue is you're not doing anything. But then from there you can receive in our world a text every single day for the next 10 days. And it's funny, I was speaking to our ISA this morning and I think we kind of have some similar data, but it's like the most likely that they're going to answer is day 1 and then its like day 3 or 4 that they respond. It's like for some reason day two doesn't really happen, I don't really get it. But it's it's it's like when you show your persistent and they're now like "Oh yeah, i need to respond to this guy I'm getting around to it". You need to automate you need to be setting these things out you need to set it and forget. Do not be manually sending these texts that could just automate. It's a huge waste of your time. If your CRM doesn't have these capabilities, go tell them they need to get it, tell them to watch this thing or whatever the story may be because if they don't I mean I don't know how they will be a CRM in a year or two. I actually don't get it. I don't know. So push them if you're CRM doesn't do the auto and drip texts, I think at that point you gotta consider switching something up.

Erik: [00:48:35] Let me let me let me say this. Nate I can't hear you. Here you go. Let me just jump in here very quickly. So we we've identified that phone calls are dying. We've identified that texting is the new cold calling. And we're also in a territory where we have to figure out how to start utilizing technology to enhance the agent. These are multilayered multilevel conversations. And for us to be cognizant of how technology is playing into this not just texting but how we can scale our businesses means that we have to start looking into some other things. And so somebody asked a question like What are we so we're not selling anything here. In fact we're just trying to bring value in and to start the conversation because we care about this community and our clients deserve better than what we've done yesterday and today. And so this is simply a push for that. And I can I can just say this that we at Hatch Realty have jumped on on board and started to use some AI stuff to enhance our texting through Structurely and it's been great. So that's the only pitch, otherwise you can pitch slap me all you want.

Robby: [00:49:53] I want to join in. I want to give you guys really I know we're getting close. I want to give you guys kind of my thoughts on what I felt. Is this whole lead version game used to be all about all calls calls calls. You know five years ago it was calls all calls. I think the last few years we've been going through what I view as the middle lead conversion game which has been a combination of outbound calls and auto and mass texts. And I think what we're going is really into a world where texting truly leads to the conversations that we have. And I have this kind of crazy idea that I think the shape of CRMs is going to change drastically over the next few years. Basically old CRMs looked like this.

Robby: [00:50:46] It was a tool us humans use to stay in front of our leads and clients. And I think what's going to happen is the smart CRM of the future is going to be a tool that uses US to stay in front of all our past clients and our leads. And that is a transformational switch, one that I have no doubt that more than that.

Nate: [00:51:15] I completely agree and I think I think the advances in technology really doing is they're coming back. That's right. They're coming in in a way that will make life easier.

Nate: [00:51:29] And as Erik said if you're not the ISA you are if you don't have an ISA you are the ISA. And that's just to say that everyone here can can leverage technology to simply augment the less than attractive things that they have to do in their lives like set follow up tasks sets and remind remind yourself to text someone the next day. It's too much it's too much to handle and that's why I think that's what you mean by CRM will start to use humans to make their lives easier. So you guys have any questions. What are you trying. Answer I know I know. And Erik are extremely active in the Leads Geek's community. I know Erik has said you know asks them questions they're going post your questions here. Post your questions there I'm sure these guys are going to be all over following up on this webinars so we just appreciate you guys. We really appreciate you guys taking the time to read it and listen to us and we're excited for ongoing webinars with these brilliant folks from Hatch. We appreciate it.

Robby: [00:52:37] I have one ask that I want to end on. If this resonated with you today, if there are people you care about that are in this real estate ball game. Please share this message with them. There's too much at stake and if they don't hear this they're going to be left behind. So the people you really care about, your team, maybe somebody in the market, someone you care about, shoot them the recording, share the link. If you don't agree with us, let's talk. And as Nate said, thank you for your time. And any questions reach out to Erik and myself that's what we're here for. Much love. Peace yall.

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