WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:25.861 --> 00:00:28.081 Anke: Hello and welcome, Christine. 00:00:28.201 --> 00:00:30.721 I am beyond excited today. 00:00:31.771 --> 00:00:33.221 Christine: Oh my gosh, I am too, Anke. 00:00:33.221 --> 00:00:38.681 It's such a pleasure to be filling so much space with you lately that 00:00:39.041 --> 00:00:43.301 I, I think this conversation is going to be exciting and heartwarming and 00:00:43.321 --> 00:00:44.961 I thank you so much for inviting me. 00:00:45.931 --> 00:00:48.921 Anke: I'm like, my heart's already warm. 00:00:48.931 --> 00:00:52.741 So if you're listening, this one's going to be a little bit 00:00:52.981 --> 00:00:54.871 different from all the others. 00:00:54.881 --> 00:01:01.221 So this time I don't have a dog trainer or an expert, but I have 00:01:01.221 --> 00:01:05.301 somebody who shares the love for dogs and that's how we connected. 00:01:05.511 --> 00:01:10.311 Like a friend we both have says, Hey, you should really meet Christine. 00:01:10.341 --> 00:01:12.151 You're both nuts about dogs. 00:01:13.041 --> 00:01:15.101 And you could literally say the rest is history. 00:01:15.511 --> 00:01:21.751 And then about kind of two weeks ago, I remembered the LinkedIn post 00:01:22.081 --> 00:01:26.251 and all, I get this notification on LinkedIn, Christine Passo 00:01:26.601 --> 00:01:28.901 mentioned you in a, in a post. 00:01:29.041 --> 00:01:32.311 I'm like, Oh, and all it said in a comment, thoughts. 00:01:33.161 --> 00:01:36.851 And I look at the post and it was this book project. 00:01:37.651 --> 00:01:40.241 And initially I was like, Oh, that's great. 00:01:40.441 --> 00:01:41.901 I'm going to share this in the newsletter. 00:01:41.901 --> 00:01:42.351 And I did. 00:01:43.571 --> 00:01:45.931 And then I looked at the page and I'm like, Ooh. 00:01:46.391 --> 00:01:52.281 So tell me, like, like, did you send this to me with the intention? 00:01:52.321 --> 00:01:54.921 Like, Ooh, I really think this is for you. 00:01:55.041 --> 00:01:59.916 Or did you think initially like, Oh, maybe, you know, someone who might. 00:02:00.686 --> 00:02:03.446 Christine: Oh my gosh, that's such a good question and I love that we haven't even 00:02:03.446 --> 00:02:05.276 talked about this because we haven't. 00:02:05.886 --> 00:02:10.836 Um, so I had had a call with Lonnee Rey, somebody that we're mutually 00:02:10.836 --> 00:02:14.836 connected with, connected us about this book, which it's if, if it's 00:02:14.836 --> 00:02:16.136 okay, I will talk about it then. 00:02:16.216 --> 00:02:17.526 I would love you to. 00:02:18.296 --> 00:02:24.366 My fur baby wrote this book and Lonnee, who has published many books in the 00:02:24.366 --> 00:02:30.506 past, in fact, she has an entire series and um, do you remember the name of it? 00:02:31.821 --> 00:02:32.581 Rattled Awake. 00:02:32.991 --> 00:02:34.041 Thank you very much. 00:02:34.461 --> 00:02:36.521 At the moment, my mind was thinking other things. 00:02:36.531 --> 00:02:41.151 So, yes, Lonnee Rey has, has published a series of Rattled Awake, 00:02:41.151 --> 00:02:47.161 beautiful co authored stories, and she has Become aware of the love 00:02:47.461 --> 00:02:49.581 that humans share with their pets. 00:02:49.671 --> 00:02:53.691 And it's mostly because of, actually one of the co-authors, something that was 00:02:53.691 --> 00:02:59.431 going on with he and his dog inspired her to say, we need a book about our, 00:02:59.491 --> 00:03:00.931 the love we share for our animals. 00:03:01.401 --> 00:03:07.331 And so I learned about it and automatically I was in because I 00:03:07.361 --> 00:03:14.311 suddenly and dramatically lost our Myra back here under the blanket there. 00:03:14.961 --> 00:03:16.131 Uh, we lost her. 00:03:16.491 --> 00:03:18.031 on May 28th of this year. 00:03:18.101 --> 00:03:19.661 So it's been four months. 00:03:20.021 --> 00:03:24.661 And Anke, you and I had a call about a month after we lost Maya, because I 00:03:24.691 --> 00:03:26.191 couldn't have any calls before that. 00:03:26.221 --> 00:03:27.401 I couldn't talk about it. 00:03:27.821 --> 00:03:32.721 And so you and I talked, and at that time you told me more about Kai and the 00:03:32.721 --> 00:03:34.661 relationship with all of your animals. 00:03:35.221 --> 00:03:39.421 And so when Lonnee said, Hey, do you know anybody else who 00:03:39.421 --> 00:03:41.161 might want to share their story? 00:03:41.761 --> 00:03:47.981 The first and only name I could think of, like, on the spot, was Anke. 00:03:48.521 --> 00:03:51.621 And so then Lonnee, you know, I'm like, days are busy, right? 00:03:51.631 --> 00:03:54.181 Like, now I'm thinking, I need to write a chapter for a book. 00:03:54.241 --> 00:03:56.361 Oh my gosh, I have all these other things going on. 00:03:56.601 --> 00:03:59.051 Lonnee puts out this post, and it was a no brainer. 00:03:59.471 --> 00:03:59.881 Anke. 00:04:00.271 --> 00:04:00.831 Thoughts? 00:04:01.041 --> 00:04:01.721 Question mark. 00:04:02.241 --> 00:04:04.721 And I thought of you to write. 00:04:05.561 --> 00:04:06.981 You never know people's schedule. 00:04:06.991 --> 00:04:09.791 I mean, we were down to the lot, you know, down to the wire with this. 00:04:10.141 --> 00:04:13.721 And I thought, well, even if she doesn't have time, she knows a lot of people who 00:04:13.721 --> 00:04:15.841 are so passionate about their animals. 00:04:16.421 --> 00:04:23.371 And it's just an unbelievably beautiful unfolding of events that has 00:04:23.381 --> 00:04:26.371 brought us four co authors together. 00:04:26.371 --> 00:04:29.721 And then of course we have a fifth who is writing the of the book. 00:04:30.431 --> 00:04:37.231 Um, but I just, nothing has felt more right in my heart aside from 00:04:37.726 --> 00:04:39.166 Being madly in love with my dogs. 00:04:39.946 --> 00:04:41.516 Anke: Yeah, I, I feel the same. 00:04:41.516 --> 00:04:47.606 And I, I, when I looked at the, you know, the project, and you know when it 00:04:47.626 --> 00:04:55.276 feels like my, almost like my body like screamed, you've got to do this, right? 00:04:55.276 --> 00:04:56.846 And it's like, I want to do this. 00:04:56.876 --> 00:04:58.306 And then I'm the same. 00:04:58.866 --> 00:04:59.676 Oh, I'm busy. 00:04:59.676 --> 00:05:01.216 Like lots of stuff going on. 00:05:01.216 --> 00:05:02.516 I'm not going to have time for this. 00:05:02.726 --> 00:05:08.906 But I so want to, so I'm like, stop it. 00:05:08.906 --> 00:05:12.056 I'm just gonna allow myself the treat. 00:05:12.076 --> 00:05:17.376 And I really loved also the way it was structured, because I've done 00:05:17.496 --> 00:05:20.696 multi authored books before, and so there was usually, okay, here's 00:05:20.696 --> 00:05:23.846 a deadline, I need your chapter by that day, here are the guidelines. 00:05:24.326 --> 00:05:29.816 And, um, you know, but basically you had to make time in your schedule to write. 00:05:30.186 --> 00:05:33.711 So I really love the idea of like, okay, We're going to get together 00:05:33.711 --> 00:05:37.071 on the weekend and we're going to actually get the book to work on there. 00:05:37.331 --> 00:05:39.291 And I'm like, okay, yep, I can do that. 00:05:40.431 --> 00:05:42.121 It felt it made it doable. 00:05:42.121 --> 00:05:47.441 And also that, uh, carrot of, Ooh, she's going to actually teach us something. 00:05:47.821 --> 00:05:54.671 So, you know, even the idea of, of improving writing skills, which I find is, 00:05:54.711 --> 00:05:56.461 well, I enjoy the life out of it anyway. 00:05:56.461 --> 00:05:59.781 And it's one of those skills that literally. 00:06:00.651 --> 00:06:04.791 You know, like multiply anything else you do. 00:06:04.941 --> 00:06:08.571 So I was really keen on that and that, okay, actually we're going to 00:06:08.571 --> 00:06:10.541 get to spend the weekend together. 00:06:10.941 --> 00:06:14.331 I didn't even know how many people were in there, you know, because the good thing 00:06:14.351 --> 00:06:18.741 is it's actually just four of us plus, plus Tess who does the foreword, right? 00:06:18.741 --> 00:06:21.221 So it's not this massive group, which I really enjoy. 00:06:22.731 --> 00:06:25.826 Christine: You know, it's, So we already knew it was special, right? 00:06:25.826 --> 00:06:30.206 And then we had this writing workshop, which was Friday night, Saturday, Sunday. 00:06:30.216 --> 00:06:33.796 I mean, we're talking like 10 hours overall and, which 00:06:33.796 --> 00:06:35.496 is a lot of time on zoom. 00:06:35.796 --> 00:06:41.756 And so I want to talk about how different all, you know, each of us coauthors 00:06:41.766 --> 00:06:47.016 are because we all share that love and connection with our, our animals. 00:06:47.016 --> 00:06:50.156 And we want to talk about, we want to share what they've taught 00:06:50.156 --> 00:06:51.646 us or what they mean to us. 00:06:52.271 --> 00:06:58.271 And in that, we learn the same thing from each other, because this 00:06:58.271 --> 00:07:00.541 is an intimate co authored book. 00:07:00.981 --> 00:07:06.321 And none of us live in the same country, which I also love, so you live in Spain, 00:07:06.401 --> 00:07:13.491 I live in the United States, Hawk lives in Norway, and Paolo lives in England. 00:07:14.361 --> 00:07:19.671 So it's like, we're all so different, and in that, which, that means that even 00:07:19.681 --> 00:07:24.461 the perspective in which we tell the story is different, because culturally. 00:07:24.931 --> 00:07:30.081 We think and feel differently and, and so there is such a, a beautiful, 00:07:30.081 --> 00:07:36.681 unique concept to how we tell our stories, yet it's all about love and 00:07:36.681 --> 00:07:42.461 somehow there's loss in there and, and then there's joy and it's, it's 00:07:42.511 --> 00:07:46.981 probably the most unique book I think I've, I've, I've seen in quite a while. 00:07:47.611 --> 00:07:48.451 Anke: Yeah, yeah. 00:07:48.451 --> 00:07:52.101 And, and it's interesting because, you know, we both were saying, 00:07:52.101 --> 00:07:56.501 Oh my God, we're like totally exhausted, you know, because it was. 00:07:56.696 --> 00:08:00.856 I, I, I, you know, I've created a couple of posts and I always said 00:08:00.856 --> 00:08:03.446 like, oh my God, this is the most emotional thing that I've ever written. 00:08:04.306 --> 00:08:08.986 You know, and it was hard, it was hard to actually kind of get into 00:08:08.986 --> 00:08:12.386 the groove because I thought like, you know, you, we have these millions 00:08:12.386 --> 00:08:13.986 of little moments with our animals. 00:08:14.586 --> 00:08:16.966 And they mean so much to us, right? 00:08:17.276 --> 00:08:21.916 But like, Kai hiding in the flowerpot, like, how can I talk about that so that 00:08:21.916 --> 00:08:23.646 it means something to somebody else. 00:08:24.196 --> 00:08:27.116 Like, that I thought was kind of hard, you know, sort of like, how 00:08:27.116 --> 00:08:31.246 am I going to structure this so that it comes alive to somebody else? 00:08:31.266 --> 00:08:32.286 So there was that. 00:08:32.746 --> 00:08:40.311 And then, um, It was literally like all this time, really deep, a deep dive into 00:08:40.351 --> 00:08:44.411 the memory, because he just passed this April, so it wasn't that long ago, and 00:08:44.411 --> 00:08:48.501 I mean, I mean, to be honest, if I'd written about Leo past three years ago, 00:08:48.701 --> 00:08:51.561 it would have been the same, you know, so it's just like digging all that out. 00:08:52.031 --> 00:08:57.316 It's, It's beautiful and it's beautifully painful at the same time. 00:08:57.666 --> 00:09:03.606 So it was very, you know, I think like after almost like having this crying 00:09:03.616 --> 00:09:09.209 as a release all weekend, so like come Monday, I was like, oh my god, I need 00:09:09.209 --> 00:09:11.556 a sign, like to catch up on sleep. 00:09:11.586 --> 00:09:16.071 It felt really, like, Yeah, and then reading everybody else's stories where 00:09:16.221 --> 00:09:17.481 it's like, oh, and then you keep crying. 00:09:18.991 --> 00:09:19.741 Christine: Yes, yes. 00:09:20.071 --> 00:09:22.211 Yeah, and then that's what was so interesting. 00:09:22.211 --> 00:09:25.541 So of course we're spending so much time writing our own story, right? 00:09:25.571 --> 00:09:30.866 So we're very focused on our language and our point of view. 00:09:30.916 --> 00:09:34.156 So then when I did and I finally read, you know, I was able to read 00:09:34.156 --> 00:09:38.846 your story yesterday and Rod Palo's, they're so incredibly different. 00:09:38.876 --> 00:09:43.326 They're all told from a different point of view from either the animal or from 00:09:43.326 --> 00:09:51.406 us or a mixture and it creates such a different differentiation, um, in theme 00:09:51.576 --> 00:09:55.856 that it's not like reading It's almost the same story over and over again. 00:09:55.856 --> 00:09:57.486 You know, it's like, Oh, they had a dog. 00:09:57.496 --> 00:10:00.066 They were so connected and, you know, the pet passed away. 00:10:00.316 --> 00:10:01.606 It's not like that at all. 00:10:01.646 --> 00:10:02.946 It's completely unique. 00:10:03.546 --> 00:10:10.736 Um, I just, it's, it's just incredibly exciting and an honor for me, at least 00:10:10.756 --> 00:10:15.906 to, to be in this space with you and Hawk and Paulo and Lonnee and Ellen. 00:10:16.796 --> 00:10:20.441 And I really think this is, I think this I don't know. 00:10:20.471 --> 00:10:24.131 I just have a feeling that there's just going to be some, a great impact. 00:10:24.861 --> 00:10:25.301 Anke: Yeah. 00:10:25.421 --> 00:10:29.371 And I think it's this, and Hawk was saying it at some point where it's like, 00:10:29.371 --> 00:10:35.121 yeah, you know, everybody said, well, I rescued Nessie, but like who rescued 00:10:35.131 --> 00:10:40.381 who, you know, it's this piece of, yeah, yeah, they have so much to teach. 00:10:40.481 --> 00:10:45.671 Like we're in the process of looking after them, even in 00:10:45.671 --> 00:10:47.761 the process of breeding them. 00:10:47.761 --> 00:10:50.631 Like we are the ones growing, you know, I've had this 00:10:50.671 --> 00:10:52.666 massive, you massive insight. 00:10:52.666 --> 00:10:57.486 Like I was talking to Lonnee, like it was really interesting because trying to 00:10:57.486 --> 00:10:58.836 like, okay, where are we going with this? 00:10:58.866 --> 00:11:00.916 You know, what am I going to do? 00:11:00.936 --> 00:11:04.936 Like, I'm not going to write about one dog or all of them or like how, 00:11:05.116 --> 00:11:06.806 how am I going to put this together? 00:11:07.346 --> 00:11:11.756 And so it's slow, kind of pretty quickly kind of worked out. 00:11:11.776 --> 00:11:12.776 No, it's going to be kite. 00:11:13.216 --> 00:11:18.426 And all of a sudden, I can't remember, like we're talking and all of like, 00:11:18.901 --> 00:11:20.741 You know, what is it about it? 00:11:20.781 --> 00:11:25.671 It was about this sense of being misunderstood and misjudged. 00:11:25.721 --> 00:11:30.841 And, you know, and all of a sudden I feel like tears shooting up. 00:11:31.981 --> 00:11:34.981 And that's like, for me, that's almost like, Oh, and a real heavy inside 00:11:34.991 --> 00:11:37.021 glance comes out through my eyes. 00:11:37.031 --> 00:11:37.421 Always. 00:11:37.481 --> 00:11:40.901 I cried through coach training and, and it was. 00:11:42.056 --> 00:11:46.566 I was like, Oh my God, I never understood why I felt so connected 00:11:46.566 --> 00:11:49.636 to him because it was literally like, yeah, yeah, that was me as a kid. 00:11:49.666 --> 00:11:54.146 I felt like that, you know, and I'm like, Oh, so this, it was literally 00:11:54.146 --> 00:11:58.546 this massive transformation for me in the process of even telling the story. 00:11:58.871 --> 00:12:04.471 So, I'm hoping that anybody reading any of these stories, it's always 00:12:04.521 --> 00:12:10.671 like you as a, like, when you read it, you kind of live it in your own way. 00:12:10.741 --> 00:12:13.091 You find your own connections to your own life. 00:12:13.601 --> 00:12:17.391 You know, and if anybody has an insight that makes a difference, 00:12:17.391 --> 00:12:20.501 that opens something up, then I think we've done our job. 00:12:20.501 --> 00:12:21.091 Oh 00:12:21.671 --> 00:12:23.271 Christine: my gosh, I couldn't agree more. 00:12:23.301 --> 00:12:26.281 And, I mean, this is just true in anybody that we lose in our life, 00:12:26.281 --> 00:12:27.701 whether it's an animal or a human. 00:12:27.701 --> 00:12:32.331 I mean, I think we've That we're keen to what they teach us in present, right? 00:12:32.331 --> 00:12:33.831 When they're here with us on earth. 00:12:34.251 --> 00:12:35.941 We say, Oh yeah, you're so good at that. 00:12:35.941 --> 00:12:37.231 I've learned this from you. 00:12:38.161 --> 00:12:39.351 When they're gone. 00:12:39.716 --> 00:12:40.926 We're able to connect. 00:12:41.206 --> 00:12:45.096 I don't know what it is, our heart, maybe it's so raw, it's wide open, 00:12:45.606 --> 00:12:48.716 uh, you know, it's in pieces and it needs to rebuild itself, and so there's 00:12:48.716 --> 00:12:54.486 something about that that opens us to accepting what else they taught us 00:12:54.516 --> 00:12:56.616 that we maybe were too blind to see. 00:12:56.736 --> 00:12:58.186 You know, we're too caught up in life. 00:12:58.691 --> 00:13:03.401 And that happened for me with when Maya Rey passed also was an 00:13:03.531 --> 00:13:08.911 unbelievable transformation that led me to pivot my coaching practice. 00:13:08.991 --> 00:13:09.951 I was just about 00:13:09.951 --> 00:13:12.221 Anke: to ask you because like for you, it's really got 00:13:12.221 --> 00:13:14.251 that impact of your career. 00:13:14.941 --> 00:13:16.651 Christine: Yes, 100%. 00:13:17.191 --> 00:13:21.201 It's you know, grief to me, I've been talking about grief for quite some time. 00:13:21.201 --> 00:13:23.101 I thought I knew grief. 00:13:23.826 --> 00:13:30.426 And then when Maya died, I, I got to know grief on the lowest possible level 00:13:30.856 --> 00:13:32.756 that I think grief can be experienced. 00:13:32.756 --> 00:13:37.186 Although I can't say that, it's, it's possible it could go lower, which God, God 00:13:37.186 --> 00:13:39.526 help me when that happens, if it happens. 00:13:40.316 --> 00:13:49.616 But to be taught that depth of despair, um, really, truly to lose consciousness 00:13:49.706 --> 00:13:52.536 for what is in front of me, or weights. 00:13:53.036 --> 00:13:57.966 I mean, that's a, that's a grief that a lot of us don't talk about because 00:13:58.006 --> 00:14:02.876 maybe we're afraid of appearing weak or that people are going to question 00:14:02.876 --> 00:14:04.676 us, especially with our animals. 00:14:04.726 --> 00:14:07.436 You know, they love to say, well, why don't you just get another one? 00:14:07.466 --> 00:14:08.526 What's the big deal? 00:14:09.286 --> 00:14:10.826 And it means so much more than that. 00:14:10.836 --> 00:14:16.476 So it, it really did lead me to focus more on the grief that we all feel, 00:14:16.626 --> 00:14:22.746 whether it's from end of life or life experiences and, and to just. 00:14:23.396 --> 00:14:27.236 Open up for people to talk about it so we can name it and help them heal. 00:14:27.296 --> 00:14:31.296 And that, because I'm going through that process and I know what it's like. 00:14:31.876 --> 00:14:32.216 Anke: Yeah. 00:14:32.256 --> 00:14:37.656 I mean, that makes it's, you know, I'd be saying it's like, she's proud of you. 00:14:37.696 --> 00:14:42.446 You know, it's almost like to, to open this up and make that conversation, give 00:14:42.446 --> 00:14:44.056 it a little bit of a broader context. 00:14:44.641 --> 00:14:46.991 Because at the end of the day, it's like, yes, grief, and I've 00:14:47.251 --> 00:14:49.981 seen post abuse where it's like, oh yeah, that's so true, isn't it? 00:14:49.981 --> 00:14:52.871 Like when you lose a job, when you move house, when, you know, there's 00:14:52.871 --> 00:14:58.381 so many situations where we experience some kind of grief and we're so used to 00:14:58.381 --> 00:15:00.751 just shove it under the carpet, right? 00:15:00.841 --> 00:15:03.181 And the problem is it'll come out somewhere. 00:15:05.301 --> 00:15:06.241 Christine: It absolutely will. 00:15:06.261 --> 00:15:08.581 And, you know, we're rushed by society. 00:15:08.941 --> 00:15:13.171 We're rushed by the people that are closest to us to move on, you know, they 00:15:13.171 --> 00:15:18.901 don't realize they think that, you know, encouraging, well today will be, you know, 00:15:18.901 --> 00:15:22.781 today will be better than yesterday, you know, and trying to encourage happiness 00:15:22.811 --> 00:15:25.201 over sadness, that that's helpful. 00:15:25.201 --> 00:15:27.761 And it's not because the griever needs time to grieve. 00:15:28.081 --> 00:15:31.656 And quite frankly, It could take years or it could be forever, but 00:15:31.656 --> 00:15:33.136 that doesn't mean we don't heal. 00:15:33.466 --> 00:15:35.636 It means that love never, love never dies. 00:15:36.436 --> 00:15:40.396 And so in a sense, we were always grieving one way or another and 00:15:40.406 --> 00:15:44.566 allowing that and accepting it and opening it up to people that we care 00:15:44.566 --> 00:15:47.666 about will help them feel validated. 00:15:47.786 --> 00:15:50.126 And they really, they need it most. 00:15:50.501 --> 00:15:52.131 Anke: Yeah, I love that. 00:15:52.131 --> 00:15:57.004 Reminds me of, um, you know, one of those short videos and I saw it and I can't, I 00:15:57.004 --> 00:16:04.451 can't remember now who it actually was, but, but basically a way to look at grief 00:16:04.451 --> 00:16:05.871 that I thought was really heartwarming. 00:16:06.301 --> 00:16:13.071 They said, well, it's like a heavy stone in, in a backpack, you know, 00:16:13.071 --> 00:16:18.811 in your pocket and basically saying, well, no, the stone will never go away. 00:16:18.811 --> 00:16:19.381 It's like a heavy stone in your pocket. 00:16:20.591 --> 00:16:25.851 You just get stronger, so it's going to feel lighter over time, you know, and I 00:16:25.871 --> 00:16:29.251 think that's so true because it's almost like, oh, this is going to wet go away. 00:16:29.251 --> 00:16:32.591 And I'm like, I don't think it does. 00:16:32.611 --> 00:16:39.341 It may not be top of mind all the time for a long period of time. 00:16:39.771 --> 00:16:43.411 It could be, it may or may not, and all of a sudden it can come 00:16:43.411 --> 00:16:47.881 out again like with full force, you know, and, and I don't know, what's 00:16:47.881 --> 00:16:49.641 your, what's your take on this? 00:16:49.671 --> 00:16:54.431 And I know that I'm not the only one, and I felt like a little bit guilty. 00:16:55.391 --> 00:16:59.781 It's um, when Leo crossed the bridge about like three years ago, 00:17:00.111 --> 00:17:07.291 I thought, I, I don't even feel that intense pain when a person dies. 00:17:07.981 --> 00:17:12.811 You know, but boy, when the dogs go, right, it's just, you 00:17:12.811 --> 00:17:13.921 know, it just rips you apart. 00:17:14.191 --> 00:17:19.191 So what's your take on, and I, I have other people who like say the 00:17:19.191 --> 00:17:24.291 same things, like it's kind of, it feels a lot more painful and raw and 00:17:24.461 --> 00:17:27.801 physically, emotionally, and like, it's almost like somebody physically rips 00:17:27.801 --> 00:17:32.681 your heart out, you know, why do we feel more for animals than for people? 00:17:35.566 --> 00:17:40.186 Christine: Yeah, so, you know, I'm really, I'm a strong proponent for 00:17:40.196 --> 00:17:42.336 saying we don't compare grief, right? 00:17:42.336 --> 00:17:46.326 So I read an article, a really good friend sent me an article that said 00:17:46.926 --> 00:17:51.506 Studies show that grieving a pet can be as hard as grieving a human. 00:17:51.536 --> 00:17:53.326 And I said, that's a comparison. 00:17:53.676 --> 00:17:54.756 We can't compare. 00:17:54.996 --> 00:17:58.686 Even when you, you lose one human and then you lose another 00:17:58.686 --> 00:18:00.266 one, the pain is different. 00:18:00.276 --> 00:18:03.356 The experience is different because the relationship is different. 00:18:03.536 --> 00:18:07.226 What you maybe depended on them, what you sought from them, what you needed 00:18:07.226 --> 00:18:11.076 from them, what they gave to you, everything is completely different. 00:18:11.426 --> 00:18:16.261 But as humans, we don't live Every moment of our lives together, right? 00:18:16.831 --> 00:18:20.591 Family, maybe we'll grow up together, but we eventually move out. 00:18:20.621 --> 00:18:23.211 You know, we're, we're, we're trained. 00:18:23.581 --> 00:18:25.231 We are brought up to become independent. 00:18:26.071 --> 00:18:31.211 Our animals are 100 percent independent on us until the day they pass. 00:18:31.521 --> 00:18:37.581 So when they come into our homes, they are essentially, saying, I need you to 00:18:37.581 --> 00:18:39.611 take care of me every minute of the day. 00:18:39.671 --> 00:18:42.701 When I need to go potty, I need you to take me outside, right? 00:18:42.951 --> 00:18:46.521 When I'm sick, you need to clean up my vomit for the rest of my life. 00:18:46.961 --> 00:18:49.051 When I'm hungry, you need to feed me. 00:18:49.241 --> 00:18:53.441 It's not like, you know, with human children, you can have small refrigerators 00:18:53.441 --> 00:18:55.071 that they can reach in and grab snacks. 00:18:55.766 --> 00:18:57.536 You really can't do that with a dog. 00:18:57.566 --> 00:19:01.246 I mean, they are relying on you to take care of them, and you know that. 00:19:01.246 --> 00:19:02.216 We accept that. 00:19:02.496 --> 00:19:06.106 We accept that no matter what, they need to be a priority 00:19:06.226 --> 00:19:08.076 for the rest of their lives. 00:19:08.416 --> 00:19:12.736 And even a priority in sensitivity at the end of their life, should 00:19:12.736 --> 00:19:13.996 we need to make a decision. 00:19:14.446 --> 00:19:19.976 So, there is that connection of every minute of the day that 00:19:19.976 --> 00:19:22.736 we share with our pets that we do not share with other humans. 00:19:23.156 --> 00:19:25.266 And so, the grief is different. 00:19:25.981 --> 00:19:27.931 And it's a different pain. 00:19:28.281 --> 00:19:33.861 It is, it is a heart wrenching pain, as is losing humans in our life. 00:19:34.311 --> 00:19:36.131 But it's just different. 00:19:36.601 --> 00:19:41.941 And, you know, I think there's also something about how much we need to take 00:19:41.951 --> 00:19:46.711 care of them for every minute of their lives that creates that sense of loss. 00:19:46.791 --> 00:19:50.821 It's like, I know when Maya died, like, well, who, who am I going 00:19:50.821 --> 00:19:52.381 to nurture all this love with now? 00:19:52.381 --> 00:19:53.361 I mean, yes, with Zoey. 00:19:54.156 --> 00:19:55.856 But now my heart has expanded. 00:19:56.746 --> 00:20:01.716 How else can I express this love that now is gone? 00:20:01.726 --> 00:20:05.396 I mean, we had a little bunny rabbit that started sleeping in, you know, in the, 00:20:05.396 --> 00:20:07.296 in the brush in front of our front yard. 00:20:07.786 --> 00:20:10.016 And we started giving it water all the time. 00:20:10.016 --> 00:20:12.456 It's like, Oh, let's give it a silly name. 00:20:12.456 --> 00:20:16.106 Oh, maybe, you know, Maya's spirit is in there somewhere checking on us. 00:20:16.106 --> 00:20:18.276 And well, and then it stopped coming. 00:20:18.646 --> 00:20:21.996 And it was like, my gosh, you know, shoulders down, sadness. 00:20:22.276 --> 00:20:24.536 I'm like, all right, well, I just need to care for the bird. 00:20:24.536 --> 00:20:24.986 Oh, I don't. 00:20:25.396 --> 00:20:28.966 It's in the backyard and clean it all the time and make sure it has fresh water. 00:20:28.966 --> 00:20:33.726 It's like there's something when we lose when we grieve that we need to somehow 00:20:33.726 --> 00:20:38.166 replace that nurturing and love with and It's very intense with with our pet. 00:20:38.166 --> 00:20:43.966 So it's it's definitely different Should never be compared even 00:20:43.966 --> 00:20:47.156 losing one pet to another that grief will be different, right? 00:20:47.706 --> 00:20:54.786 Um, but no matter the source of what anybody is grieving honor your own pain 00:20:55.526 --> 00:21:00.976 And it's really hard to do, but don't rely on other people to tell you when you 00:21:00.976 --> 00:21:04.246 need to move on because that's up to you. 00:21:04.536 --> 00:21:06.236 And frankly, you'll never move on. 00:21:06.626 --> 00:21:10.526 You're just going to find how to store that love and that loss in 00:21:10.526 --> 00:21:12.276 your everyday life as time goes on. 00:21:13.166 --> 00:21:13.966 Anke: Yeah, I love that. 00:21:14.046 --> 00:21:14.506 I love that. 00:21:14.506 --> 00:21:18.906 And it's because it's, it's when you say it like that, the idea of, Oh my God, this 00:21:18.906 --> 00:21:22.986 never goes, it doesn't mean that you're going to be suffering your whole life. 00:21:23.056 --> 00:21:23.946 It's almost like. 00:21:24.646 --> 00:21:27.766 No, no, that rock in your pocket doesn't go away. 00:21:27.806 --> 00:21:32.536 You just find ways to, you know, make it part of your life so 00:21:32.536 --> 00:21:34.526 it's not painful the entire time. 00:21:34.956 --> 00:21:38.506 So I think that it's just, there's so much hope in there as well, you 00:21:38.506 --> 00:21:41.086 know, and that expansion of love. 00:21:41.196 --> 00:21:47.316 And so, yeah, it's as, it's as hard as it is, it has a lot of beauty 00:21:47.316 --> 00:21:48.796 in it for some funny reason, right? 00:21:49.766 --> 00:21:53.516 Christine: Well, and you know what, and I think some of us really need to create 00:21:53.516 --> 00:21:55.666 a purpose out of it, which you found. 00:21:56.211 --> 00:21:58.241 with Kai and writing your story. 00:21:59.771 --> 00:22:03.251 The lesson that you now learned, right, that you figured out and the purpose 00:22:03.251 --> 00:22:07.691 of it and then helping to teach other people to see this, recognize it, or 00:22:07.701 --> 00:22:09.761 maybe, you know, open their eyes to it. 00:22:10.161 --> 00:22:15.661 That when we can take loss that is so much love and be, feel healthy 00:22:15.661 --> 00:22:19.981 enough to create a purpose out of it, that is, that's that rock. 00:22:20.436 --> 00:22:21.556 But in a positive way. 00:22:21.556 --> 00:22:22.476 So 00:22:22.476 --> 00:22:28.166 Anke: if people want to connect more with you and um, you know, find 00:22:28.166 --> 00:22:32.346 out more about your work or simply connect with you, where can they go? 00:22:32.346 --> 00:22:33.406 The 00:22:33.986 --> 00:22:38.336 Christine: best place to go is my website, which is my full name, christinepasso. 00:22:38.636 --> 00:22:39.036 com. 00:22:39.396 --> 00:22:40.326 Super simple. 00:22:40.646 --> 00:22:42.366 I have a grief support page. 00:22:42.711 --> 00:22:47.651 I have up there, I offer brief support on a short term basis, but 00:22:47.651 --> 00:22:52.271 then welcome longer term coaching to continue the healing process. 00:22:52.271 --> 00:22:56.501 But certainly in the beginning, especially with our pets, there are a lot of people 00:22:56.501 --> 00:23:02.131 that don't understand, and I, I'm always happy to be a source and coach to, to 00:23:02.131 --> 00:23:03.991 guide people through their, their grief. 00:23:04.051 --> 00:23:05.981 So, Christine Passo.com. 00:23:06.351 --> 00:23:07.131 Let's have a chat. 00:23:07.131 --> 00:23:09.411 I'm, I, you know what, if you're an animal lover. 00:23:09.896 --> 00:23:10.656 Let's just chat. 00:23:12.476 --> 00:23:12.866 Anke: Awesome. 00:23:12.866 --> 00:23:14.146 Well, thank you so much. 00:23:14.176 --> 00:23:18.516 And I'm going to go and add the book to the end of this once we have it 00:23:18.566 --> 00:23:20.136 because it's going to be out in a week. 00:23:20.156 --> 00:23:23.416 So we're going to, um, Who 00:23:23.996 --> 00:23:24.296 Christine: knows? 00:23:24.356 --> 00:23:25.736 When are you posting this? 00:23:26.516 --> 00:23:29.256 Anke: Well, whenever we want to post it. 00:23:29.256 --> 00:23:33.471 So I might post it before, or we're just going to maybe, you know, You know, 00:23:33.531 --> 00:23:35.521 wait until it's out and then ta da! 00:23:36.591 --> 00:23:37.911 Christine: Right, and the release date? 00:23:38.351 --> 00:23:40.921 The release date is Monday, October 7th, right? 00:23:40.951 --> 00:23:41.621 October 7th. 00:23:42.311 --> 00:23:44.911 If you're watching this after Monday, October 7th, 00:23:45.231 --> 00:23:46.391 Anke: it's ready! 00:23:46.391 --> 00:23:50.021 It's ready, and so if you're watching this after October 7th, then the link 00:23:50.211 --> 00:23:53.066 to the book shall be below this video. 00:23:53.156 --> 00:23:56.876 So, you know, if you're watching, if you're listening on the, on the podcast 00:23:56.876 --> 00:23:58.006 app, it's going to be in the show notes. 00:23:58.056 --> 00:24:01.596 If you're watching on, on YouTube, it's just right below. 00:24:01.596 --> 00:24:03.306 If it's in the newsletter, it's right below. 00:24:03.306 --> 00:24:04.816 So can't miss it. 00:24:05.076 --> 00:24:05.916 Go check it out. 00:24:05.936 --> 00:24:11.716 It's going to be a quick read, but just make sure you've got tissues ready. 00:24:12.576 --> 00:24:13.736 Christine: Thank you so much, Anke. 00:24:13.736 --> 00:24:17.086 It's such a great pleasure to share this book with you and to 00:24:17.116 --> 00:24:18.566 continue nurturing our friendship. 00:24:18.566 --> 00:24:19.506 Thank you so much. 00:24:19.856 --> 00:24:20.256 Thank you. 00:24:21.013 --> 00:24:22.243 Thanks so much for listening. 00:24:22.763 --> 00:24:27.063 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:24:27.163 --> 00:24:28.943 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:24:29.733 --> 00:24:33.223 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:24:33.653 --> 00:24:39.223 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:24:39.323 --> 00:24:41.693 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:24:41.693 --> 00:24:45.423 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:24:45.843 --> 00:24:46.983 I'd love an introduction. 00:24:47.463 --> 00:24:49.293 Email me at Anke. 00:24:49.563 --> 00:24:53.798 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.