Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who
see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care.
I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.
I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people.
So come and join us for today's conversation.
Anke: Hello and welcome, Christine.
I am beyond excited today.
Christine: Oh my gosh, I am too, Anke.
It's such a pleasure to be filling so much space with you lately that
I, I think this conversation is going to be exciting and heartwarming and
I thank you so much for inviting me.
Anke: I'm like, my heart's already warm.
So if you're listening, this one's going to be a little bit
different from all the others.
So this time I don't have a dog trainer or an expert, but I have
somebody who shares the love for dogs and that's how we connected.
Like a friend we both have says, Hey, you should really meet Christine.
You're both nuts about dogs.
And you could literally say the rest is history.
And then about kind of two weeks ago, I remembered the LinkedIn post
and all, I get this notification on LinkedIn, Christine Passo
mentioned you in a, in a post.
I'm like, Oh, and all it said in a comment, thoughts.
And I look at the post and it was this book project.
And initially I was like, Oh, that's great.
I'm going to share this in the newsletter.
And I did.
And then I looked at the page and I'm like, Ooh.
So tell me, like, like, did you send this to me with the intention?
Like, Ooh, I really think this is for you.
Or did you think initially like, Oh, maybe, you know, someone who might.
Christine: Oh my gosh, that's such a good question and I love that we haven't even
talked about this because we haven't.
Um, so I had had a call with Lonnee Rey, somebody that we're mutually
connected with, connected us about this book, which it's if, if it's
okay, I will talk about it then.
I would love you to.
My fur baby wrote this book and Lonnee, who has published many books in the
past, in fact, she has an entire series and um, do you remember the name of it?
Rattled Awake.
Thank you very much.
At the moment, my mind was thinking other things.
So, yes, Lonnee Rey has, has published a series of Rattled Awake,
beautiful co authored stories, and she has Become aware of the love
that humans share with their pets.
And it's mostly because of, actually one of the co-authors, something that was
going on with he and his dog inspired her to say, we need a book about our,
the love we share for our animals.
And so I learned about it and automatically I was in because I
suddenly and dramatically lost our Myra back here under the blanket there.
Uh, we lost her.
on May 28th of this year.
So it's been four months.
And Anke, you and I had a call about a month after we lost Maya, because I
couldn't have any calls before that.
I couldn't talk about it.
And so you and I talked, and at that time you told me more about Kai and the
relationship with all of your animals.
And so when Lonnee said, Hey, do you know anybody else who
might want to share their story?
The first and only name I could think of, like, on the spot, was Anke.
And so then Lonnee, you know, I'm like, days are busy, right?
Like, now I'm thinking, I need to write a chapter for a book.
Oh my gosh, I have all these other things going on.
Lonnee puts out this post, and it was a no brainer.
Anke.
Thoughts?
Question mark.
And I thought of you to write.
You never know people's schedule.
I mean, we were down to the lot, you know, down to the wire with this.
And I thought, well, even if she doesn't have time, she knows a lot of people who
are so passionate about their animals.
And it's just an unbelievably beautiful unfolding of events that has
brought us four co authors together.
And then of course we have a fifth who is writing the of the book.
Um, but I just, nothing has felt more right in my heart aside from
Being madly in love with my dogs.
Anke: Yeah, I, I feel the same.
And I, I, when I looked at the, you know, the project, and you know when it
feels like my, almost like my body like screamed, you've got to do this, right?
And it's like, I want to do this.
And then I'm the same.
Oh, I'm busy.
Like lots of stuff going on.
I'm not going to have time for this.
But I so want to, so I'm like, stop it.
I'm just gonna allow myself the treat.
And I really loved also the way it was structured, because I've done
multi authored books before, and so there was usually, okay, here's
a deadline, I need your chapter by that day, here are the guidelines.
And, um, you know, but basically you had to make time in your schedule to write.
So I really love the idea of like, okay, We're going to get together
on the weekend and we're going to actually get the book to work on there.
And I'm like, okay, yep, I can do that.
It felt it made it doable.
And also that, uh, carrot of, Ooh, she's going to actually teach us something.
So, you know, even the idea of, of improving writing skills, which I find is,
well, I enjoy the life out of it anyway.
And it's one of those skills that literally.
You know, like multiply anything else you do.
So I was really keen on that and that, okay, actually we're going to
get to spend the weekend together.
I didn't even know how many people were in there, you know, because the good thing
is it's actually just four of us plus, plus Tess who does the foreword, right?
So it's not this massive group, which I really enjoy.
Christine: You know, it's, So we already knew it was special, right?
And then we had this writing workshop, which was Friday night, Saturday, Sunday.
I mean, we're talking like 10 hours overall and, which
is a lot of time on zoom.
And so I want to talk about how different all, you know, each of us coauthors
are because we all share that love and connection with our, our animals.
And we want to talk about, we want to share what they've taught
us or what they mean to us.
And in that, we learn the same thing from each other, because this
is an intimate co authored book.
And none of us live in the same country, which I also love, so you live in Spain,
I live in the United States, Hawk lives in Norway, and Paolo lives in England.
So it's like, we're all so different, and in that, which, that means that even
the perspective in which we tell the story is different, because culturally.
We think and feel differently and, and so there is such a, a beautiful,
unique concept to how we tell our stories, yet it's all about love and
somehow there's loss in there and, and then there's joy and it's, it's
probably the most unique book I think I've, I've, I've seen in quite a while.
Anke: Yeah, yeah.
And, and it's interesting because, you know, we both were saying,
Oh my God, we're like totally exhausted, you know, because it was.
I, I, I, you know, I've created a couple of posts and I always said
like, oh my God, this is the most emotional thing that I've ever written.
You know, and it was hard, it was hard to actually kind of get into
the groove because I thought like, you know, you, we have these millions
of little moments with our animals.
And they mean so much to us, right?
But like, Kai hiding in the flowerpot, like, how can I talk about that so that
it means something to somebody else.
Like, that I thought was kind of hard, you know, sort of like, how
am I going to structure this so that it comes alive to somebody else?
So there was that.
And then, um, It was literally like all this time, really deep, a deep dive into
the memory, because he just passed this April, so it wasn't that long ago, and
I mean, I mean, to be honest, if I'd written about Leo past three years ago,
it would have been the same, you know, so it's just like digging all that out.
It's, It's beautiful and it's beautifully painful at the same time.
So it was very, you know, I think like after almost like having this crying
as a release all weekend, so like come Monday, I was like, oh my god, I need
a sign, like to catch up on sleep.
It felt really, like, Yeah, and then reading everybody else's stories where
it's like, oh, and then you keep crying.
Christine: Yes, yes.
Yeah, and then that's what was so interesting.
So of course we're spending so much time writing our own story, right?
So we're very focused on our language and our point of view.
So then when I did and I finally read, you know, I was able to read
your story yesterday and Rod Palo's, they're so incredibly different.
They're all told from a different point of view from either the animal or from
us or a mixture and it creates such a different differentiation, um, in theme
that it's not like reading It's almost the same story over and over again.
You know, it's like, Oh, they had a dog.
They were so connected and, you know, the pet passed away.
It's not like that at all.
It's completely unique.
Um, I just, it's, it's just incredibly exciting and an honor for me, at least
to, to be in this space with you and Hawk and Paulo and Lonnee and Ellen.
And I really think this is, I think this I don't know.
I just have a feeling that there's just going to be some, a great impact.
Anke: Yeah.
And I think it's this, and Hawk was saying it at some point where it's like,
yeah, you know, everybody said, well, I rescued Nessie, but like who rescued
who, you know, it's this piece of, yeah, yeah, they have so much to teach.
Like we're in the process of looking after them, even in
the process of breeding them.
Like we are the ones growing, you know, I've had this
massive, you massive insight.
Like I was talking to Lonnee, like it was really interesting because trying to
like, okay, where are we going with this?
You know, what am I going to do?
Like, I'm not going to write about one dog or all of them or like how,
how am I going to put this together?
And so it's slow, kind of pretty quickly kind of worked out.
No, it's going to be kite.
And all of a sudden, I can't remember, like we're talking and all of like,
You know, what is it about it?
It was about this sense of being misunderstood and misjudged.
And, you know, and all of a sudden I feel like tears shooting up.
And that's like, for me, that's almost like, Oh, and a real heavy inside
glance comes out through my eyes.
Always.
I cried through coach training and, and it was.
I was like, Oh my God, I never understood why I felt so connected
to him because it was literally like, yeah, yeah, that was me as a kid.
I felt like that, you know, and I'm like, Oh, so this, it was literally
this massive transformation for me in the process of even telling the story.
So, I'm hoping that anybody reading any of these stories, it's always
like you as a, like, when you read it, you kind of live it in your own way.
You find your own connections to your own life.
You know, and if anybody has an insight that makes a difference,
that opens something up, then I think we've done our job.
Oh
Christine: my gosh, I couldn't agree more.
And, I mean, this is just true in anybody that we lose in our life,
whether it's an animal or a human.
I mean, I think we've That we're keen to what they teach us in present, right?
When they're here with us on earth.
We say, Oh yeah, you're so good at that.
I've learned this from you.
When they're gone.
We're able to connect.
I don't know what it is, our heart, maybe it's so raw, it's wide open,
uh, you know, it's in pieces and it needs to rebuild itself, and so there's
something about that that opens us to accepting what else they taught us
that we maybe were too blind to see.
You know, we're too caught up in life.
And that happened for me with when Maya Rey passed also was an
unbelievable transformation that led me to pivot my coaching practice.
I was just about
Anke: to ask you because like for you, it's really got
that impact of your career.
Christine: Yes, 100%.
It's you know, grief to me, I've been talking about grief for quite some time.
I thought I knew grief.
And then when Maya died, I, I got to know grief on the lowest possible level
that I think grief can be experienced.
Although I can't say that, it's, it's possible it could go lower, which God, God
help me when that happens, if it happens.
But to be taught that depth of despair, um, really, truly to lose consciousness
for what is in front of me, or weights.
I mean, that's a, that's a grief that a lot of us don't talk about because
maybe we're afraid of appearing weak or that people are going to question
us, especially with our animals.
You know, they love to say, well, why don't you just get another one?
What's the big deal?
And it means so much more than that.
So it, it really did lead me to focus more on the grief that we all feel,
whether it's from end of life or life experiences and, and to just.
Open up for people to talk about it so we can name it and help them heal.
And that, because I'm going through that process and I know what it's like.
Anke: Yeah.
I mean, that makes it's, you know, I'd be saying it's like, she's proud of you.
You know, it's almost like to, to open this up and make that conversation, give
it a little bit of a broader context.
Because at the end of the day, it's like, yes, grief, and I've
seen post abuse where it's like, oh yeah, that's so true, isn't it?
Like when you lose a job, when you move house, when, you know, there's
so many situations where we experience some kind of grief and we're so used to
just shove it under the carpet, right?
And the problem is it'll come out somewhere.
Christine: It absolutely will.
And, you know, we're rushed by society.
We're rushed by the people that are closest to us to move on, you know, they
don't realize they think that, you know, encouraging, well today will be, you know,
today will be better than yesterday, you know, and trying to encourage happiness
over sadness, that that's helpful.
And it's not because the griever needs time to grieve.
And quite frankly, It could take years or it could be forever, but
that doesn't mean we don't heal.
It means that love never, love never dies.
And so in a sense, we were always grieving one way or another and
allowing that and accepting it and opening it up to people that we care
about will help them feel validated.
And they really, they need it most.
Anke: Yeah, I love that.
Reminds me of, um, you know, one of those short videos and I saw it and I can't, I
can't remember now who it actually was, but, but basically a way to look at grief
that I thought was really heartwarming.
They said, well, it's like a heavy stone in, in a backpack, you know,
in your pocket and basically saying, well, no, the stone will never go away.
It's like a heavy stone in your pocket.
You just get stronger, so it's going to feel lighter over time, you know, and I
think that's so true because it's almost like, oh, this is going to wet go away.
And I'm like, I don't think it does.
It may not be top of mind all the time for a long period of time.
It could be, it may or may not, and all of a sudden it can come
out again like with full force, you know, and, and I don't know, what's
your, what's your take on this?
And I know that I'm not the only one, and I felt like a little bit guilty.
It's um, when Leo crossed the bridge about like three years ago,
I thought, I, I don't even feel that intense pain when a person dies.
You know, but boy, when the dogs go, right, it's just, you
know, it just rips you apart.
So what's your take on, and I, I have other people who like say the
same things, like it's kind of, it feels a lot more painful and raw and
physically, emotionally, and like, it's almost like somebody physically rips
your heart out, you know, why do we feel more for animals than for people?
Christine: Yeah, so, you know, I'm really, I'm a strong proponent for
saying we don't compare grief, right?
So I read an article, a really good friend sent me an article that said
Studies show that grieving a pet can be as hard as grieving a human.
And I said, that's a comparison.
We can't compare.
Even when you, you lose one human and then you lose another
one, the pain is different.
The experience is different because the relationship is different.
What you maybe depended on them, what you sought from them, what you needed
from them, what they gave to you, everything is completely different.
But as humans, we don't live Every moment of our lives together, right?
Family, maybe we'll grow up together, but we eventually move out.
You know, we're, we're, we're trained.
We are brought up to become independent.
Our animals are 100 percent independent on us until the day they pass.
So when they come into our homes, they are essentially, saying, I need you to
take care of me every minute of the day.
When I need to go potty, I need you to take me outside, right?
When I'm sick, you need to clean up my vomit for the rest of my life.
When I'm hungry, you need to feed me.
It's not like, you know, with human children, you can have small refrigerators
that they can reach in and grab snacks.
You really can't do that with a dog.
I mean, they are relying on you to take care of them, and you know that.
We accept that.
We accept that no matter what, they need to be a priority
for the rest of their lives.
And even a priority in sensitivity at the end of their life, should
we need to make a decision.
So, there is that connection of every minute of the day that
we share with our pets that we do not share with other humans.
And so, the grief is different.
And it's a different pain.
It is, it is a heart wrenching pain, as is losing humans in our life.
But it's just different.
And, you know, I think there's also something about how much we need to take
care of them for every minute of their lives that creates that sense of loss.
It's like, I know when Maya died, like, well, who, who am I going
to nurture all this love with now?
I mean, yes, with Zoey.
But now my heart has expanded.
How else can I express this love that now is gone?
I mean, we had a little bunny rabbit that started sleeping in, you know, in the,
in the brush in front of our front yard.
And we started giving it water all the time.
It's like, Oh, let's give it a silly name.
Oh, maybe, you know, Maya's spirit is in there somewhere checking on us.
And well, and then it stopped coming.
And it was like, my gosh, you know, shoulders down, sadness.
I'm like, all right, well, I just need to care for the bird.
Oh, I don't.
It's in the backyard and clean it all the time and make sure it has fresh water.
It's like there's something when we lose when we grieve that we need to somehow
replace that nurturing and love with and It's very intense with with our pet.
So it's it's definitely different Should never be compared even
losing one pet to another that grief will be different, right?
Um, but no matter the source of what anybody is grieving honor your own pain
And it's really hard to do, but don't rely on other people to tell you when you
need to move on because that's up to you.
And frankly, you'll never move on.
You're just going to find how to store that love and that loss in
your everyday life as time goes on.
Anke: Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
And it's because it's, it's when you say it like that, the idea of, Oh my God, this
never goes, it doesn't mean that you're going to be suffering your whole life.
It's almost like.
No, no, that rock in your pocket doesn't go away.
You just find ways to, you know, make it part of your life so
it's not painful the entire time.
So I think that it's just, there's so much hope in there as well, you
know, and that expansion of love.
And so, yeah, it's as, it's as hard as it is, it has a lot of beauty
in it for some funny reason, right?
Christine: Well, and you know what, and I think some of us really need to create
a purpose out of it, which you found.
with Kai and writing your story.
The lesson that you now learned, right, that you figured out and the purpose
of it and then helping to teach other people to see this, recognize it, or
maybe, you know, open their eyes to it.
That when we can take loss that is so much love and be, feel healthy
enough to create a purpose out of it, that is, that's that rock.
But in a positive way.
So
Anke: if people want to connect more with you and um, you know, find
out more about your work or simply connect with you, where can they go?
The
Christine: best place to go is my website, which is my full name, christinepasso.
com.
Super simple.
I have a grief support page.
I have up there, I offer brief support on a short term basis, but
then welcome longer term coaching to continue the healing process.
But certainly in the beginning, especially with our pets, there are a lot of people
that don't understand, and I, I'm always happy to be a source and coach to, to
guide people through their, their grief.
So, Christine Passo.com.
Let's have a chat.
I'm, I, you know what, if you're an animal lover.
Let's just chat.
Anke: Awesome.
Well, thank you so much.
And I'm going to go and add the book to the end of this once we have it
because it's going to be out in a week.
So we're going to, um, Who
Christine: knows?
When are you posting this?
Anke: Well, whenever we want to post it.
So I might post it before, or we're just going to maybe, you know, You know,
wait until it's out and then ta da!
Christine: Right, and the release date?
The release date is Monday, October 7th, right?
October 7th.
If you're watching this after Monday, October 7th,
Anke: it's ready!
It's ready, and so if you're watching this after October 7th, then the link
to the book shall be below this video.
So, you know, if you're watching, if you're listening on the, on the podcast
app, it's going to be in the show notes.
If you're watching on, on YouTube, it's just right below.
If it's in the newsletter, it's right below.
So can't miss it.
Go check it out.
It's going to be a quick read, but just make sure you've got tissues ready.
Christine: Thank you so much, Anke.
It's such a great pleasure to share this book with you and to
continue nurturing our friendship.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thanks so much for listening.
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And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview,
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Email me at Anke.
That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.