WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.930 --> 00:00:04.116 Welcome to ChannelWaves, the podcast where channel 2 00:00:04.116 --> 00:00:07.978 leaders share success strategies, best practices, emerging trends, 3 00:00:07.978 --> 00:00:09.748 brought to you by StructuredWeb. 4 00:00:09.748 --> 00:00:11.994 Here's your host, Steven Kellam. 5 00:00:11.994 --> 00:00:13.962 Welcome everyone to ChannelWaves. 6 00:00:13.962 --> 00:00:15.556 StructuredWeb's view into everything channel. 7 00:00:15.556 --> 00:00:17.834 I'm your host, Steven Kellam, and today we're 8 00:00:17.834 --> 00:00:21.108 going to dig into partnerships and how you 9 00:00:21.108 --> 00:00:23.162 can get the most out of your partners 10 00:00:23.162 --> 00:00:26.178 in demand generation and revenue generation. 11 00:00:26.178 --> 00:00:28.764 Everything that's important to you in H2. 12 00:00:28.764 --> 00:00:30.674 And I'm joined by Diane Krakora, who's 13 00:00:30.674 --> 00:00:33.058 the CEO and founder of PartnerPath. 14 00:00:33.058 --> 00:00:34.150 Welcome, Diane. 15 00:00:34.730 --> 00:00:36.652 Hey, Steven, thanks for having me. 16 00:00:36.652 --> 00:00:38.188 One of the reasons that I'm excited to have 17 00:00:38.188 --> 00:00:40.736 Diane one is, gosh, we've known each other quite 18 00:00:40.736 --> 00:00:43.382 some time, and I have a lot of respect 19 00:00:43.382 --> 00:00:46.144 for what Diane has done and the knowledge that 20 00:00:46.144 --> 00:00:49.670 she has in the channel, particularly about partnerships. 21 00:00:49.670 --> 00:00:52.150 And one of the reasons I asked Diane to join 22 00:00:52.150 --> 00:00:55.206 was actually there were two reasons to be totally transparent. 23 00:00:55.206 --> 00:00:56.964 One is she talks to people in the 24 00:00:56.964 --> 00:00:59.076 Marketing circle, she talks to people in Channel 25 00:00:59.076 --> 00:01:01.108 Sales Circle, and she talks to people in 26 00:01:01.108 --> 00:01:04.174 the Channel Chie . f circle last time I checked. 27 00:01:04.174 --> 00:01:05.438 That's a pretty broad 28 00:01:05.438 --> 00:01:07.460 and comprehensive perspective, right? 29 00:01:08.870 --> 00:01:09.336 Yeah. 30 00:01:09.336 --> 00:01:11.736 So it's really fun to be able to talk 31 00:01:11.736 --> 00:01:16.622 across all the different discourses within the partner ecosystem, 32 00:01:16.622 --> 00:01:17.868 to be able to see how they all come 33 00:01:17.868 --> 00:01:23.500 together to support and grow ecosystems, particularly in 2023, 34 00:01:23.500 --> 00:01:26.396 which takes a village, that's for sure. It does. 35 00:01:26.396 --> 00:01:29.628 And the second reason is because I live 36 00:01:29.628 --> 00:01:31.450 in a lot of the tech stack. 37 00:01:31.450 --> 00:01:32.784 I've done the MDF, I've done 38 00:01:32.784 --> 00:01:34.320 the incentives, I've done all that. 39 00:01:34.320 --> 00:01:36.774 Now we're in the market automation tech stack. 40 00:01:36.774 --> 00:01:39.856 And Diane, I think this is absolutely true, no matter 41 00:01:39.856 --> 00:01:42.688 how good your technology and how good your stack is. 42 00:01:42.688 --> 00:01:43.824 And we're going to talk about 43 00:01:43.824 --> 00:01:45.674 that and talk about integrations. 44 00:01:45.674 --> 00:01:48.308 If your programs aren't done well and if 45 00:01:48.308 --> 00:01:49.908 isn't lined up and you don't have your 46 00:01:49.908 --> 00:01:52.212 go to market strategy for all that together, 47 00:01:52.212 --> 00:01:55.434 then you sort of automate for automates sake. 48 00:01:55.434 --> 00:01:58.990 And I don't think that really makes things successful. 49 00:01:58.990 --> 00:02:00.952 And you kind of end up with, 50 00:02:00.952 --> 00:02:03.672 I think, selling everything short that way. Yeah. 51 00:02:03.672 --> 00:02:05.740 And I think that'll certainly be one of our 52 00:02:05.740 --> 00:02:10.699 five key partner program challenges or one of the 53 00:02:10.699 --> 00:02:13.756 outcomes or the answers to one of the five 54 00:02:13.756 --> 00:02:16.236 key program challenges that we're seeing this year. 55 00:02:16.236 --> 00:02:20.976 It's certainly the new world order in 2023. 56 00:02:20.976 --> 00:02:26.990 So I think there's some aspect of automation 57 00:02:26.990 --> 00:02:31.206 that is definitely growing as well as refining 58 00:02:31.206 --> 00:02:34.068 and really getting specific around what are you 59 00:02:34.068 --> 00:02:36.612 trying to do with the partner program? Sure. 60 00:02:36.612 --> 00:02:38.746 So why don't we start with Demand Generation? 61 00:02:38.746 --> 00:02:41.924 It's something near and dear to my heart oh, by the 62 00:02:41.924 --> 00:02:44.770 way, listeners, we're going to talk about the challenges. 63 00:02:44.770 --> 00:02:46.436 But Diane and I were talking about this before. 64 00:02:46.436 --> 00:02:47.768 There's a lot of opportunities around that. 65 00:02:47.768 --> 00:02:50.648 Every time there's a challenge, somebody is going to 66 00:02:50.648 --> 00:02:52.798 figure out how to make it work, and they're 67 00:02:52.798 --> 00:02:55.050 basically going to have a competitive advantage. 68 00:02:55.050 --> 00:02:55.800 Absolutely. 69 00:02:57.290 --> 00:03:00.402 I think in one of the five is demand 70 00:03:00.402 --> 00:03:05.372 generation which right now we are seeing so many 71 00:03:05.372 --> 00:03:09.440 people kind of freaking out about pipeline and running 72 00:03:09.440 --> 00:03:12.912 to partners and saying we need more pipeline, we 73 00:03:12.912 --> 00:03:15.862 need our partners to generate more pipeline. 74 00:03:15.862 --> 00:03:19.568 The whole world is in a pipeline crunch right now 75 00:03:19.568 --> 00:03:23.520 and we're kind of seeing this entire student body left 76 00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:27.028 into we need our partners to do more marketing or 77 00:03:27.028 --> 00:03:30.068 do more demand generation or get more partners that can 78 00:03:30.068 --> 00:03:33.806 do demand generation and really drive that pipeline. 79 00:03:33.806 --> 00:03:35.384 So certainly I think those are 80 00:03:35.384 --> 00:03:37.864 the realities of mid year 2023. 81 00:03:37.864 --> 00:03:43.598 And the question is can some partners do demand 82 00:03:43.598 --> 00:03:46.500 generation for you as a vendor and will they? 83 00:03:48.330 --> 00:03:51.820 Well, what's the answer? 84 00:03:51.820 --> 00:03:53.350 Look, I have my opinion. 85 00:03:53.930 --> 00:03:55.666 I think people want to hear your opinion. 86 00:03:55.666 --> 00:03:58.114 I think certain partners can do demand generation. 87 00:03:58.114 --> 00:03:59.858 I think certain partners are going to be challenged. 88 00:03:59.858 --> 00:04:00.896 Which is why there's to, 89 00:04:00.896 --> 00:04:02.672 through and for partner marketing. Right. 90 00:04:02.672 --> 00:04:06.368 And I think the problem I'm seeing is I think 91 00:04:06.368 --> 00:04:09.184 there's some confusion on where to use to, where do 92 00:04:09.184 --> 00:04:11.248 you use through and where to use for? 93 00:04:11.248 --> 00:04:13.892 And even more importantly, in which individual 94 00:04:13.892 --> 00:04:15.876 segments to go after that, right. 95 00:04:15.876 --> 00:04:17.600 The small, the medium and the large. 96 00:04:19.010 --> 00:04:20.490 I think that's really the challenge. 97 00:04:20.490 --> 00:04:24.052 I see people flip flopping around a lot and 98 00:04:24.052 --> 00:04:25.876 it's certainly not a one size fits all. 99 00:04:25.876 --> 00:04:27.672 In terms of can partners do 100 00:04:27.672 --> 00:04:29.208 demand generation or will they? 101 00:04:29.208 --> 00:04:30.552 I mean, certainly they can else 102 00:04:30.552 --> 00:04:31.752 they wouldn't be in business, right. 103 00:04:31.752 --> 00:04:34.888 If they weren't able to generate the demand for 104 00:04:34.888 --> 00:04:37.004 at least themselves, they wouldn't be in business. 105 00:04:37.004 --> 00:04:41.330 But will they do it for or with a vendor partner? 106 00:04:41.330 --> 00:04:44.002 And it's really a mixed bag. 107 00:04:44.002 --> 00:04:50.128 Some will and a lot will do more of an ABM. Right. 108 00:04:50.128 --> 00:04:55.420 In terms of trying to reach new accounts and sell more, drive more? 109 00:04:56.510 --> 00:04:58.758 I think the biggest answer here is you can't 110 00:04:58.758 --> 00:05:02.362 paint, use one brush to paint your entire partner 111 00:05:02.362 --> 00:05:04.858 ecosystem and say they will or they won't. 112 00:05:04.858 --> 00:05:06.186 Some will, some won't. 113 00:05:06.186 --> 00:05:12.400 And how do you find the 8% to 10% that will and can? 114 00:05:13.250 --> 00:05:16.632 Yeah, what's a good way to do that? 115 00:05:16.632 --> 00:05:18.952 Have you run across someone who's doing a very 116 00:05:18.952 --> 00:05:21.752 good job of segmenting their partners and how they 117 00:05:21.752 --> 00:05:26.070 segment their partners and how they build those segmentations? 118 00:05:27.450 --> 00:05:30.092 One way that we see is successful here 119 00:05:30.092 --> 00:05:32.732 is just allowing partners to opt in, right. 120 00:05:32.732 --> 00:05:36.092 And saying, hey, we have marketing campaigns for you. 121 00:05:36.092 --> 00:05:39.248 We have marketing automation tools to help you 122 00:05:39.248 --> 00:05:43.760 guys be successful through those communications, allow them 123 00:05:43.760 --> 00:05:46.160 to sign up and opt in. 124 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:50.502 And instead of expecting 100% of participation, 125 00:05:50.502 --> 00:05:53.332 we just need to start expecting 10% 126 00:05:53.332 --> 00:05:55.492 participation and thinking that's great. 127 00:05:55.492 --> 00:05:58.788 Instead of it has to be every partner in 128 00:05:58.788 --> 00:06:03.492 our ecosystem adopting and leveraging our marketing so it 129 00:06:03.492 --> 00:06:05.620 might align to some of their business models, then 130 00:06:05.620 --> 00:06:07.598 it might not align to other business models. 131 00:06:07.598 --> 00:06:10.180 So again, we can't think everything. 132 00:06:10.870 --> 00:06:13.662 We can't think everything is a nail right there's. 133 00:06:13.662 --> 00:06:16.834 Definitely a whole bunch of different types 134 00:06:16.834 --> 00:06:19.676 of partners in your ecosystem with different 135 00:06:19.676 --> 00:06:22.386 business models and different priorities, quite frankly, 136 00:06:22.386 --> 00:06:25.916 even in this quarter. Sure. Okay. 137 00:06:25.916 --> 00:06:28.374 Number two on your list was partner contributions. 138 00:06:28.374 --> 00:06:30.710 Are partners influencing deals? 139 00:06:30.710 --> 00:06:32.160 So what's going on there? 140 00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:37.270 Yeah, the other thing, along with partners generating demand, 141 00:06:37.270 --> 00:06:40.352 the second thing we're seeing is a lot of 142 00:06:40.352 --> 00:06:44.990 requests and centering around measuring partner contribution. 143 00:06:46.370 --> 00:06:50.010 This might be our vendors justifying their existence, 144 00:06:50.010 --> 00:06:53.866 our vendor partner aims justifying their existence. 145 00:06:53.866 --> 00:06:58.600 We're seeing some organizations like Workday swing heavily towards 146 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:01.454 partnering and say, oh my God, we haven't partnered 147 00:07:01.454 --> 00:07:03.944 in years, we've got to start doing this. 148 00:07:03.944 --> 00:07:06.664 And we've seen other organizations like New Relic 149 00:07:06.664 --> 00:07:08.546 kind of lay off most of their partnering 150 00:07:08.546 --> 00:07:12.844 came and say, oh, we're not getting enough 151 00:07:12.844 --> 00:07:15.084 contribution from our partners and we're going to 152 00:07:15.084 --> 00:07:16.940 kind of swing the pendulum the other way. 153 00:07:16.940 --> 00:07:22.768 So in that kind of divergence, it's understanding what 154 00:07:22.768 --> 00:07:26.288 the partner contribution is and is it influenced, is 155 00:07:26.288 --> 00:07:29.894 it assisted, is it resold, is it developed? 156 00:07:29.894 --> 00:07:33.424 And trying to put measurements to that, I 157 00:07:33.424 --> 00:07:35.508 think, is one of the big challenges that 158 00:07:35.508 --> 00:07:38.132 we're seeing for partner programs this year. 159 00:07:38.132 --> 00:07:40.052 How does the vendor go about that? Right. 160 00:07:40.052 --> 00:07:43.140 Is there a process that you bring to that? 161 00:07:44.710 --> 00:07:48.024 How do they create best practices around that? Right? 162 00:07:48.024 --> 00:07:50.216 Well, the hardest part of 163 00:07:50.216 --> 00:07:53.720 measuring partner contribution is data. Right. 164 00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:56.988 Everybody knows I love data, but what are your 165 00:07:56.988 --> 00:07:59.500 systems, what are your tools to be able to 166 00:07:59.500 --> 00:08:03.458 collect data in terms of are partners doing marketing? 167 00:08:03.458 --> 00:08:03.756 Right. 168 00:08:03.756 --> 00:08:07.026 That could be an indication of contribution 169 00:08:07.026 --> 00:08:09.888 that the partners are actually adopting your 170 00:08:09.888 --> 00:08:12.566 partner marketing and doing marketing and generating 171 00:08:12.566 --> 00:08:14.278 leads and registering those leads. 172 00:08:14.278 --> 00:08:17.008 And like, regardless of those close or 173 00:08:17.008 --> 00:08:18.848 not that still are closed with that, 174 00:08:18.848 --> 00:08:21.418 partner can be considered contribution. 175 00:08:21.418 --> 00:08:24.644 So the hardest part is getting the data, the 176 00:08:24.644 --> 00:08:27.988 data entry, the leads in, the deals registered, the 177 00:08:27.988 --> 00:08:34.532 deals closed, even assigning actions, really being able to 178 00:08:34.532 --> 00:08:38.104 define are there seven steps or 27 steps in 179 00:08:38.104 --> 00:08:41.669 your sales cycle and who's doing what within those, 180 00:08:41.669 --> 00:08:43.511 there might be multiple partners. Right. 181 00:08:43.511 --> 00:08:45.356 So how do you kind of have those 182 00:08:45.356 --> 00:08:49.052 capabilities and systems to see what actions, what 183 00:08:49.052 --> 00:08:53.212 activities partners are doing along the sales and 184 00:08:53.212 --> 00:08:56.076 customer success lifecycle, to be able to then 185 00:08:56.076 --> 00:08:58.690 say kind of measure partner contribution. 186 00:08:58.690 --> 00:08:59.984 Well, so that leads I was going to 187 00:08:59.984 --> 00:09:02.576 say that leads into your next number three 188 00:09:02.576 --> 00:09:06.134 on that, which is customer success and renewals. 189 00:09:06.134 --> 00:09:11.876 And how are partners managing and working 190 00:09:11.876 --> 00:09:14.132 to that and adding contribution there? Yeah. 191 00:09:14.132 --> 00:09:16.452 And how are vendors allowing or 192 00:09:16.452 --> 00:09:20.436 not allowing partners to contribute there? Right. 193 00:09:20.436 --> 00:09:23.140 And is the expectation that 194 00:09:23.140 --> 00:09:25.620 partners are driving customer success? 195 00:09:26.470 --> 00:09:27.752 Most of you guys all 196 00:09:27.752 --> 00:09:29.720 have subscription models out there. 197 00:09:29.720 --> 00:09:33.000 And are you expecting your partners to help 198 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:37.212 the customers adopt and use the solution so 199 00:09:37.212 --> 00:09:40.530 that they are renewing it and growing? 200 00:09:40.530 --> 00:09:42.812 And are those customer success 201 00:09:42.812 --> 00:09:45.890 motions part of your expectations? 202 00:09:45.890 --> 00:09:48.492 And I think that's one of the big challenges that 203 00:09:48.492 --> 00:09:51.820 we see in partner programs for this year is that 204 00:09:52.430 --> 00:09:55.136 we all know that customer success is important. 205 00:09:55.136 --> 00:09:58.432 But kind of the rigor and 206 00:09:58.432 --> 00:10:00.640 even the expectations are not kind of 207 00:10:00.640 --> 00:10:03.850 written into your partner programs and your partner 208 00:10:03.850 --> 00:10:08.452 program guides that we're expecting the partners to play 209 00:10:08.452 --> 00:10:11.156 here and even rewarding them for that in terms 210 00:10:11.156 --> 00:10:16.042 of additional deal registration or discount around renewal. 211 00:10:16.042 --> 00:10:17.466 That renewal motion. 212 00:10:17.466 --> 00:10:20.328 But 2023, we need to keep our customers. 213 00:10:20.328 --> 00:10:21.768 Not only do we need to find them with new 214 00:10:21.768 --> 00:10:23.880 leads, but we need to keep the ones who pass. 215 00:10:23.880 --> 00:10:27.270 Making sure that they're using is important. 216 00:10:27.270 --> 00:10:28.168 I was going to ask you 217 00:10:28.168 --> 00:10:29.228 about rewarding them for do that. 218 00:10:29.228 --> 00:10:30.684 It makes total sense to me. 219 00:10:30.684 --> 00:10:32.748 It also makes sense to me that that is 220 00:10:32.748 --> 00:10:36.348 a place I think partners could play really well. 221 00:10:36.348 --> 00:10:39.698 Historically, everything I've heard having been a partner 222 00:10:39.698 --> 00:10:42.492 a long time ago, getting new business or 223 00:10:42.492 --> 00:10:44.496 new logos was a hard thing. 224 00:10:44.496 --> 00:10:47.350 It was always wanting to sell to the existing. 225 00:10:47.350 --> 00:10:49.808 So if that's part of the DNA of a lot 226 00:10:49.808 --> 00:10:53.958 of partners, why not just go that extra effort onto 227 00:10:53.958 --> 00:10:56.560 the renewal side and that partner success. 228 00:10:57.650 --> 00:10:59.652 But it is a behavior modification. Right. 229 00:10:59.652 --> 00:11:02.228 That changes the program, changes what you ask of 230 00:11:02.228 --> 00:11:05.220 them and changes most importantly how you reward them. 231 00:11:06.310 --> 00:11:07.224 Absolutely. 232 00:11:07.224 --> 00:11:10.260 And that's why we kind of calling them 233 00:11:10.870 --> 00:11:15.596 challenges for this year because we all see 234 00:11:15.596 --> 00:11:18.364 that renewal and that adoption is important. 235 00:11:18.364 --> 00:11:21.532 We're getting pressures from executives around and 236 00:11:21.532 --> 00:11:24.658 boards and the street around renewals. 237 00:11:24.658 --> 00:11:27.916 But that hasn't really made its way into 238 00:11:27.916 --> 00:11:31.450 a lot of partner programs around those expectations. 239 00:11:32.190 --> 00:11:37.536 So certainly kind of redesigning and looking at 240 00:11:37.536 --> 00:11:40.272 your overall expectations for your partners and the 241 00:11:40.272 --> 00:11:43.750 benefits or rewards for them and those activities. 242 00:11:43.750 --> 00:11:46.372 It's really partner programs just come down to 243 00:11:46.372 --> 00:11:48.148 what activities do you want partners to do 244 00:11:48.148 --> 00:11:50.804 and what are you paying them to do? Right. 245 00:11:50.804 --> 00:11:54.826 Or where are they getting that MDF or additional 246 00:11:54.826 --> 00:11:57.992 discounts or discount off training or something like that. 247 00:11:57.992 --> 00:12:02.152 So how are you setting up that value exchange? Yeah. 248 00:12:02.152 --> 00:12:04.424 One of the coolest reward programs I ever had when I 249 00:12:04.424 --> 00:12:09.724 was a partner is if I hit 95% customer satisfaction on 250 00:12:09.724 --> 00:12:13.388 all the implementations because such a huge part of setting up 251 00:12:13.388 --> 00:12:16.444 what the renewal is going to look like asking for the 252 00:12:16.444 --> 00:12:19.290 renewal and trying to be a good partner to a client 253 00:12:19.290 --> 00:12:21.088 eleven months down the road when you're trying to do a 254 00:12:21.088 --> 00:12:23.456 renewal versus doing the beginning big thing. 255 00:12:23.456 --> 00:12:25.318 It changed our whole organization 256 00:12:25.318 --> 00:12:27.638 how we did onboarding. 257 00:12:27.638 --> 00:12:29.984 Because let me tell you, the project manager, everyone in 258 00:12:29.984 --> 00:12:33.444 that organization knew they wanted to hit that 95% because 259 00:12:33.444 --> 00:12:37.242 it had a drastic effect on our profit margins. 260 00:12:37.242 --> 00:12:38.720 Right, right. 261 00:12:39.410 --> 00:12:42.372 And it's all about the metrics that 262 00:12:42.372 --> 00:12:44.682 matter these days is adoption and usage 263 00:12:44.682 --> 00:12:47.156 and renewal in a subscription model. 264 00:12:47.156 --> 00:12:48.792 Especially as we start running out 265 00:12:48.792 --> 00:12:50.136 our first two and three years. 266 00:12:50.136 --> 00:12:52.798 If you sold them for a two year subscription 267 00:12:52.798 --> 00:12:54.824 model, which really isn't a subscription model, but I 268 00:12:54.824 --> 00:12:56.630 don't want to go into that now. 269 00:12:56.630 --> 00:12:59.596 But when that two or three years start, which 270 00:12:59.596 --> 00:13:05.292 now, then we start saying this is now not 271 00:13:05.292 --> 00:13:07.884 the time to start making sure that the customer 272 00:13:07.884 --> 00:13:10.970 is actually happy with the product and using it 273 00:13:10.970 --> 00:13:13.398 because we're 60 days out of renewal. 274 00:13:13.398 --> 00:13:15.024 That should have happened a year ago. 275 00:13:15.024 --> 00:13:16.096 Oh, no, I totally agree. 276 00:13:16.096 --> 00:13:17.488 I mean, someone told me there's three 277 00:13:17.488 --> 00:13:18.928 things that happen on a launch and 278 00:13:18.928 --> 00:13:21.206 there's positive, neutral and negative. 279 00:13:21.206 --> 00:13:23.092 And you don't want the other two. Right. 280 00:13:23.092 --> 00:13:24.330 You only want the positive. 281 00:13:24.330 --> 00:13:27.530 It makes a huge difference to cross-sell, upsell 282 00:13:27.530 --> 00:13:29.540 even way before you get to renewal, right. 283 00:13:29.540 --> 00:13:31.572 Just really change things. 284 00:13:31.572 --> 00:13:33.012 So the fourth thing on your 285 00:13:33.012 --> 00:13:34.312 list kind of ties into that. 286 00:13:34.312 --> 00:13:37.262 If partners aren't making it, which partners 287 00:13:37.262 --> 00:13:38.980 do you cut from that program? 288 00:13:41.030 --> 00:13:43.368 I saw someone, I think this is really hard to do, 289 00:13:43.368 --> 00:13:46.632 that had the Premier League way of doing it, right. 290 00:13:46.632 --> 00:13:53.370 Literally cut the bottom 10% every year. Right. 291 00:13:53.370 --> 00:13:54.299 When I first heard that, I was 292 00:13:54.299 --> 00:13:55.308 like, well, that sounds really cool. 293 00:13:55.308 --> 00:13:56.098 I kind of like the Premier 294 00:13:56.098 --> 00:13:57.148 League way they do that, right. 295 00:13:57.148 --> 00:13:59.196 For those who don't follow soccer, bottom 296 00:13:59.196 --> 00:14:00.892 three teams and then Premier League gets 297 00:14:00.892 --> 00:14:02.210 sent down to another league. 298 00:14:02.210 --> 00:14:04.640 and you'll get it. Yeah. 299 00:14:04.640 --> 00:14:08.060 Kind of, either way at least you enjoy yourself, right? 300 00:14:08.830 --> 00:14:11.268 But yeah, look, when do you do that? 301 00:14:11.268 --> 00:14:12.640 Why do you do that? 302 00:14:13.490 --> 00:14:19.570 Well, this is, again, a challenge that not necessarily 303 00:14:19.570 --> 00:14:24.420 people have or have a firm pat answer to. 304 00:14:24.420 --> 00:14:26.020 The question is, do we cut? 305 00:14:26.020 --> 00:14:28.390 And if we cut, how do we cut? 306 00:14:28.390 --> 00:14:31.640 And we see very two different camps on this. 307 00:14:31.640 --> 00:14:33.304 One is like absolutely. 308 00:14:33.304 --> 00:14:35.848 Just like we're cutting the bottom 10%, right? 309 00:14:35.848 --> 00:14:40.012 If you haven't done a transaction in x long we're cutting you off. 310 00:14:40.012 --> 00:14:43.346 Which then brings me back to the conversation 311 00:14:43.346 --> 00:14:49.900 of are they contributing other than transactions? Right? 312 00:14:49.900 --> 00:14:51.158 Are they doing marketing? 313 00:14:51.158 --> 00:14:52.502 Are they generating leads? 314 00:14:52.502 --> 00:14:54.992 Are they an advisor out there in the world? 315 00:14:54.992 --> 00:14:56.672 Are they influencing even 316 00:14:56.672 --> 00:14:58.198 though they're not transacting? 317 00:14:58.198 --> 00:15:00.452 Do you know if those partners are 318 00:15:00.452 --> 00:15:04.026 whispering into your prospects executive ears? 319 00:15:04.026 --> 00:15:06.452 And that was the thing that closed the 320 00:15:06.452 --> 00:15:10.964 deal, even though they didn't show up in 321 00:15:10.964 --> 00:15:17.350 your POS reports, quick throwback to the 1980s, those POS reports. 322 00:15:17.350 --> 00:15:21.432 So I think that the question becomes, if you 323 00:15:21.432 --> 00:15:25.996 don't have good data on what are partners doing 324 00:15:25.996 --> 00:15:30.716 and how are they contributing to your sales and 325 00:15:30.716 --> 00:15:36.012 success cycles, then we end up cutting partners that 326 00:15:36.012 --> 00:15:40.990 actually could be influencing and actually driving contribution. 327 00:15:40.990 --> 00:15:45.648 So to cut or not to cut this long tail, we used 328 00:15:45.648 --> 00:15:51.472 to say, yeah, 90-10, rule and lop off everybody else, because 329 00:15:51.472 --> 00:15:55.732 if they're not doing, we get 90% of our revenues from 10% 330 00:15:55.732 --> 00:15:57.920 of our partners, and the rest of them are just out. 331 00:15:59.970 --> 00:16:04.312 But I think that's changing in 2023 because 332 00:16:04.312 --> 00:16:07.992 we're seeing so many more touch points to 333 00:16:07.992 --> 00:16:12.024 the customer's buying journey and it's more difficult 334 00:16:12.024 --> 00:16:16.450 to really measure who is being successful. 335 00:16:16.450 --> 00:16:21.420 If we can automate some of those relationships and 336 00:16:21.420 --> 00:16:25.378 have less of a cost to them, then there's 337 00:16:25.378 --> 00:16:29.580 no harm, no foul, having partners out there that 338 00:16:30.350 --> 00:16:33.904 don't look like they're transacting, right? 339 00:16:33.904 --> 00:16:37.542 So while it's more difficult, I would say it's 340 00:16:37.542 --> 00:16:40.608 never been more critical to have that data so 341 00:16:40.608 --> 00:16:44.916 that you don't inadvertently cut off someone who is 342 00:16:44.916 --> 00:16:49.236 an influencer and maybe you just didn't know it. 343 00:16:49.236 --> 00:16:51.098 So here's the scenario, I'm going to paint 344 00:16:51.098 --> 00:16:52.324 the picture for you because this is how 345 00:16:52.324 --> 00:16:53.672 you're going to wrap it up, right? 346 00:16:53.672 --> 00:16:57.342 So you need to know more about your partners 347 00:16:57.342 --> 00:17:00.136 and how they interact with all the customers. 348 00:17:00.136 --> 00:17:04.344 The buying has gotten more diverse and challenging because 349 00:17:04.344 --> 00:17:08.674 there are more partners involved, because the buyer's journey 350 00:17:08.674 --> 00:17:10.876 has changed and how they want to buy. 351 00:17:10.876 --> 00:17:12.796 And you have to have all of this 352 00:17:12.796 --> 00:17:15.880 data so you can really accurately do things. 353 00:17:17.050 --> 00:17:18.892 But we're doing more with 354 00:17:18.892 --> 00:17:21.493 less people, with less resources. 355 00:17:21.493 --> 00:17:24.127 So you got in one hand I need to do all 356 00:17:24.127 --> 00:17:27.339 these great things and in the other hand you're like, oh, 357 00:17:28.190 --> 00:17:31.604 I don't have as many resources, or maybe it's not that 358 00:17:31.604 --> 00:17:34.052 I don't have as many resources, maybe I'm not getting more 359 00:17:34.052 --> 00:17:38.324 resources yet I'm expected to do more. 360 00:17:38.324 --> 00:17:42.004 Certainly doing more with lots is a topic yet again. 361 00:17:42.004 --> 00:17:43.928 It was also a very hot topic in 2008. 362 00:17:43.928 --> 00:17:50.158 And we're seeing either reduced budget so we don't 363 00:17:50.158 --> 00:17:52.168 have as much money for MDF to be able 364 00:17:52.168 --> 00:17:55.064 to do more of that partner demand generation that 365 00:17:55.064 --> 00:17:57.990 we talked about is point number one. 366 00:17:57.990 --> 00:18:02.626 So how do I drive more demand with less MDF budget? 367 00:18:02.626 --> 00:18:07.580 Or how do I do program changes or do I 368 00:18:07.580 --> 00:18:10.672 have to cut partners because we don't have as many 369 00:18:10.672 --> 00:18:14.960 people to help address or manage those kind of longer 370 00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:18.570 tail partners that may not look like they're contributing? 371 00:18:19.950 --> 00:18:20.700 Definitely. 372 00:18:21.470 --> 00:18:24.298 I can't imagine there's anybody out there who's not feeling 373 00:18:24.298 --> 00:18:28.132 the pressure to do more, to grow more pipeline, to 374 00:18:28.132 --> 00:18:33.034 grow more partner sales, to contribute more from the partner ecosystem 375 00:18:33.034 --> 00:18:37.864 with not the same resources, less resources we've seen across 376 00:18:37.864 --> 00:18:40.344 the board for the last year. 377 00:18:40.344 --> 00:18:42.536 Many, many cuts, right? 378 00:18:42.536 --> 00:18:46.382 Many human resources are kind of removed or changed. 379 00:18:46.382 --> 00:18:48.492 Still only 3% unemployment out there. 380 00:18:48.492 --> 00:18:50.200 So I don't understand. 381 00:18:50.970 --> 00:18:53.772 People are finding jobs pretty quickly, but we have 382 00:18:53.772 --> 00:18:57.708 definitely seen in the technology industry, there isn't a 383 00:18:57.708 --> 00:19:00.816 client we've had in the last year who has not 384 00:19:00.816 --> 00:19:04.750 had some version of a reduction in force. 385 00:19:04.750 --> 00:19:08.192 So for me, I would say there's two places actually 386 00:19:08.192 --> 00:19:11.072 I want your answer on this, but my first place, 387 00:19:11.072 --> 00:19:14.928 or first thought is there's two places they have the 388 00:19:14.928 --> 00:19:16.964 program side and like how to review it. 389 00:19:16.964 --> 00:19:19.348 Every time you say things like the MDF, sorry, I 390 00:19:19.348 --> 00:19:21.348 go back to my roots, I'm like, well you should 391 00:19:21.348 --> 00:19:24.430 review your guidelines and you should view what you're operating. 392 00:19:25.170 --> 00:19:29.368 MDF is not, somebody was saying they had 95% use 393 00:19:29.368 --> 00:19:31.112 of MDF and then they looked at it, went oh, 394 00:19:31.112 --> 00:19:34.200 all my partners coming to my partner event, they're not 395 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:37.614 actually doing demand generation, actually driving demand. 396 00:19:37.614 --> 00:19:39.288 They're not doing any stuff, but 397 00:19:39.288 --> 00:19:41.438 they're not actually driving demand. 398 00:19:41.438 --> 00:19:42.392 Two different things. 399 00:19:42.392 --> 00:19:43.772 That's a very different thing. 400 00:19:43.772 --> 00:19:45.948 I was like, maybe you should review that and then 401 00:19:45.948 --> 00:19:49.648 you should look at your to partner marketing, by the 402 00:19:49.648 --> 00:19:52.128 way, and if your guidelines read like you hate your 403 00:19:52.128 --> 00:19:54.342 partner, maybe you should change your font. 404 00:19:54.342 --> 00:19:55.530 I mean, I'm serious. 405 00:19:57.070 --> 00:19:58.670 Stuff matters. 406 00:19:58.670 --> 00:20:00.704 The other side is the technology piece to It. 407 00:20:00.704 --> 00:20:02.692 And I know you live in the programs world. 408 00:20:02.692 --> 00:20:04.628 I live in the technology world. 409 00:20:04.628 --> 00:20:07.786 My technology world can't do well without your programs. 410 00:20:07.786 --> 00:20:10.436 And I think your programs need technology like 411 00:20:10.436 --> 00:20:13.780 never before, but not like hodgepodged together, right? 412 00:20:13.780 --> 00:20:16.088 I'm still seeing a lot of hodgepodge on 413 00:20:16.088 --> 00:20:17.208 stuff, which makes it really hard to get 414 00:20:17.208 --> 00:20:22.504 good data in a more with less world. 415 00:20:22.504 --> 00:20:23.966 You have to go to automation. 416 00:20:23.966 --> 00:20:26.274 You have to go and leverage technologies. 417 00:20:26.274 --> 00:20:28.652 The investments that you all make in 418 00:20:28.652 --> 00:20:33.530 technology systems pay three, four, five fold 419 00:20:33.530 --> 00:20:35.852 from the human resources aspect, right? 420 00:20:35.852 --> 00:20:38.732 So instead of a body, if you spend that same 421 00:20:38.732 --> 00:20:41.004 amount on systems, which is a lot of money, if 422 00:20:41.004 --> 00:20:43.600 you're talking about what kind of bodies we've got here, 423 00:20:43.600 --> 00:20:47.574 then we really see that help grow and scale. 424 00:20:47.574 --> 00:20:49.206 It doesn't all have to be AI. 425 00:20:49.206 --> 00:20:51.812 We don't have to be on the kind of the 426 00:20:51.812 --> 00:20:55.498 cutting edge of some of these technologies that having systems 427 00:20:55.498 --> 00:20:59.636 that talk to each other or unifying systems really help 428 00:20:59.636 --> 00:21:03.896 the data, which helps you show contribution and value, which 429 00:21:03.896 --> 00:21:05.810 helps you actually get more budget. 430 00:21:06.390 --> 00:21:08.968 Because if we can show that we are 431 00:21:08.968 --> 00:21:11.390 as a partnering team and through the partner 432 00:21:11.390 --> 00:21:16.642 programs contributing to the corporate goals, generate revenue, 433 00:21:16.642 --> 00:21:22.130 generate revenue, generate revenue, generate pipeline, then we're 434 00:21:22.130 --> 00:21:25.212 certainly showing that value and usually getting more 435 00:21:25.212 --> 00:21:27.724 money to go after those and continuing to 436 00:21:27.724 --> 00:21:30.108 get that leverage, which is quite literally the 437 00:21:30.108 --> 00:21:32.490 definition of partnering is leverage. 438 00:21:32.490 --> 00:21:34.272 Well, can I think this is a great place 439 00:21:34.272 --> 00:21:37.408 to wrap it up because if they can't do 440 00:21:37.408 --> 00:21:39.088 that, I think, Diane, this is where you can 441 00:21:39.088 --> 00:21:41.328 come along and help if they can't justify it. 442 00:21:41.328 --> 00:21:43.524 I can't tell you how many situations where I've been 443 00:21:43.524 --> 00:21:45.764 in where automation would have been really good and they 444 00:21:45.764 --> 00:21:48.910 could help, but they couldn't get the IT resources. 445 00:21:49.730 --> 00:21:53.130 It wasn't even the budget for, say, someone's software 446 00:21:53.130 --> 00:21:56.072 platform, whether it's mine or somebody else's, it was 447 00:21:56.072 --> 00:21:59.192 the internal resources and even the IT. 448 00:21:59.192 --> 00:22:00.850 To get it implemented. 449 00:22:01.430 --> 00:22:04.472 People got to figure out how to sell that so 450 00:22:04.472 --> 00:22:08.194 that they can get that in there. And certainly outsourcing 451 00:22:08.194 --> 00:22:12.044 even implementations and being able to work around IT or 452 00:22:12.044 --> 00:22:16.060 being able to work with IT and have consultants that 453 00:22:16.060 --> 00:22:19.340 help, implement and install and even run your types of 454 00:22:19.340 --> 00:22:23.952 systems can show a pretty big ROI fairly quickly, which 455 00:22:23.952 --> 00:22:26.352 then gets IT on board. 456 00:22:26.352 --> 00:22:28.784 And it's not that they will not want 457 00:22:28.784 --> 00:22:31.408 to play, they just have other priorities. On their list. 458 00:22:31.408 --> 00:22:34.308 And our partnering tools aren't always the 459 00:22:34.308 --> 00:22:35.828 number one priority on their list. 460 00:22:35.828 --> 00:22:37.332 But that doesn't mean that we should sit 461 00:22:37.332 --> 00:22:41.010 there and say, oh, okay, go implement that 462 00:22:41.010 --> 00:22:45.464 great big ERP system or that big, huge 463 00:22:45.464 --> 00:22:48.180 CRM system, and we'll wait for three years. 464 00:22:49.110 --> 00:22:52.456 We, as a partnering teams, need to fight a lot 465 00:22:52.456 --> 00:22:55.700 faster because we have to do more with less. 466 00:22:56.870 --> 00:22:59.836 So, Diane, thank you for joining us. 467 00:22:59.836 --> 00:23:03.548 And what's the best way for people to reach you so 468 00:23:03.548 --> 00:23:06.700 that you can share some of that wisdom and help people 469 00:23:06.700 --> 00:23:09.740 figure out how do they make this happen, how do they 470 00:23:09.740 --> 00:23:12.006 get the budgets, how do they get it through internally? 471 00:23:12.006 --> 00:23:13.696 So how can people reach you? 472 00:23:13.696 --> 00:23:15.872 Certainly easiest way to reach us 473 00:23:15.872 --> 00:23:20.270 is partner-path.com, is the website. 474 00:23:20.270 --> 00:23:22.272 So there is a little hyphen in there, 475 00:23:22.272 --> 00:23:29.492 and it's dkrakora@partner-path.com as well and LinkedIn and 476 00:23:29.492 --> 00:23:32.770 kind of all the standard social media aspects. 477 00:23:32.770 --> 00:23:35.668 If you can Google, you can probably find us. 478 00:23:35.668 --> 00:23:36.842 Fantastic. 479 00:23:36.842 --> 00:23:38.538 Once again, Diane, thanks for spending 480 00:23:38.538 --> 00:23:39.620 a few minutes with us. 481 00:23:39.620 --> 00:23:42.196 Listeners and viewers, thank you for taking some time. 482 00:23:42.196 --> 00:23:43.340 Hey, everybody. Have a great day.