1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:02,989 Melissa: Hello, and welcome to our inaugural edition of the 2 00:00:02,989 --> 00:00:06,369 Practitioner Scholar, a Penn Chief Learning Officer podcast. 3 00:00:06,670 --> 00:00:08,980 I'm Melissa Monti, and I will be your host. 4 00:00:09,189 --> 00:00:13,600 We are very excited to be here for our first episode where we will use the time 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:17,089 to I'm going to explore some of the great work and successes behind some of the 6 00:00:17,089 --> 00:00:21,900 alumni of the Penn Chief Learning Officer Program, or Penn CLO as it's known. 7 00:00:22,319 --> 00:00:24,929 It's actually an executive doctoral program through the 8 00:00:24,929 --> 00:00:28,079 University of Pennsylvania's Graduate School of Education. 9 00:00:28,369 --> 00:00:30,869 And I'm actually a current student of this program. 10 00:00:31,759 --> 00:00:35,089 The course of study focuses on organizational learning, leadership, 11 00:00:35,099 --> 00:00:38,779 and development within the public and private working sectors. 12 00:00:38,969 --> 00:00:41,799 It's also known as a scholar practitioner program. 13 00:00:42,059 --> 00:00:45,919 That means that while there is an academic research component, a lot 14 00:00:45,919 --> 00:00:49,539 of what we learn can be applied to the workplace through best practices. 15 00:00:49,819 --> 00:00:52,469 Thought leadership and creating a framework to be 16 00:00:52,469 --> 00:00:53,889 a trusted learning partner. 17 00:00:54,139 --> 00:00:58,309 Speaking of which we are excited to introduce our first guest, Dr. 18 00:00:58,309 --> 00:00:59,059 Keith Keating. 19 00:00:59,259 --> 00:01:04,529 He serves as the chief learning and talent officer for BDO, a global consulting firm. 20 00:01:04,719 --> 00:01:07,889 He is also the author of the groundbreaking learning and 21 00:01:07,889 --> 00:01:11,179 development practitioners guide, the trusted learning advisor. 22 00:01:11,504 --> 00:01:15,584 A sought after keynote speaker, he is also an advocate for talent development 23 00:01:15,594 --> 00:01:20,144 and emphasizes human talent as the cornerstone of organizational success. 24 00:01:20,504 --> 00:01:20,864 Dr. 25 00:01:20,864 --> 00:01:24,924 Keating also received his Master of Education and Doctor of Education 26 00:01:24,924 --> 00:01:27,694 degrees from the Penn Chief Learning Officer Program . Dr. 27 00:01:27,694 --> 00:01:29,814 Keating, thank you so much for joining us today. 28 00:01:29,844 --> 00:01:30,774 May I call you Keith? 29 00:01:31,259 --> 00:01:32,399 Keith: Absolutely, Melissa. 30 00:01:32,439 --> 00:01:32,919 Thank you. 31 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,299 And it's a pleasure to be here on our first inaugural 32 00:01:35,299 --> 00:01:35,849 episode. 33 00:01:36,304 --> 00:01:37,194 Melissa: Absolutely. 34 00:01:37,204 --> 00:01:38,114 Thank you again. 35 00:01:38,654 --> 00:01:42,594 We have several topics on today's agenda for you, which include your 36 00:01:42,614 --> 00:01:46,594 newly released book, of course, Specific Learning and Development Frameworks, 37 00:01:46,634 --> 00:01:51,324 and your thoughts on incorporating these into Fortune 500 companies and beyond. 38 00:01:51,764 --> 00:01:55,494 We also have some lighthearted questions for you to help inspire us all to 39 00:01:55,494 --> 00:01:57,554 engage in a lifelong learning journey. 40 00:01:57,984 --> 00:02:00,114 But first, we would love to take a few minutes. 41 00:02:00,334 --> 00:02:03,254 to get to know you as a person and also a human. 42 00:02:03,764 --> 00:02:07,594 You've been very open in the past about your beginnings and how education looked 43 00:02:07,594 --> 00:02:09,424 for you during your younger years. 44 00:02:09,774 --> 00:02:11,774 Can you tell us a little bit more about that journey? 45 00:02:12,191 --> 00:02:12,811 Keith: Absolutely. 46 00:02:12,861 --> 00:02:16,041 Our backgrounds of course are like our fingerprints, very unique. 47 00:02:16,431 --> 00:02:22,496 And for me, I struggled significantly with school and education growing up. 48 00:02:22,786 --> 00:02:27,176 My father was in the military, so we moved every year, basically, and my formative 49 00:02:27,176 --> 00:02:32,426 years were in Germany, Korea, Japan, and so when I did finally move to the U. 50 00:02:32,426 --> 00:02:36,826 S., I was definitely mal aligned to the education system. 51 00:02:37,361 --> 00:02:41,761 And I just struggled so much that eventually I dropped out when I was 15. 52 00:02:42,104 --> 00:02:48,304 And I think that's been a driving factor for my continued education as an adult. 53 00:02:48,334 --> 00:02:52,744 And my passion for this industry is I understand firsthand. 54 00:02:52,994 --> 00:02:58,364 What it's like to struggle with the idea of learning and this formal construct 55 00:02:58,674 --> 00:03:02,814 that a lot of times our schools or education systems like to put in place 56 00:03:03,004 --> 00:03:05,034 to make everybody fit inside of that box. 57 00:03:05,064 --> 00:03:06,654 And I don't feel like there's one box. 58 00:03:07,174 --> 00:03:08,664 That everyone can fit in. 59 00:03:08,674 --> 00:03:14,371 And so to your earlier point thank you for the introduction, but my advocacy and 60 00:03:14,371 --> 00:03:19,801 my passion is around encouraging everyone to be lifelong learners, because once 61 00:03:19,801 --> 00:03:21,831 you understand the power of learning. 62 00:03:22,416 --> 00:03:27,226 You can take control over your future, and you're really unstoppable as a human. 63 00:03:27,533 --> 00:03:27,883 Okay, 64 00:03:27,933 --> 00:03:28,553 Melissa: very good. 65 00:03:29,303 --> 00:03:33,383 Now, this actually segues very nicely into my next question for you. 66 00:03:33,733 --> 00:03:37,533 Often you hear a lot of the times from older adults that it's too late 67 00:03:37,533 --> 00:03:42,433 to go back to school, or I missed my calling, or I'm too old to start over. 68 00:03:42,753 --> 00:03:45,073 So my question for you is actually two parts. 69 00:03:45,348 --> 00:03:49,388 How do you feel about those phrases or the phrase too late tied to learning? 70 00:03:49,868 --> 00:03:53,808 And what is your opinion on learning through higher education versus 71 00:03:53,828 --> 00:03:55,678 possibly learning through the workplace? 72 00:03:55,708 --> 00:03:57,118 What are some pros and cons there? 73 00:03:57,838 --> 00:04:03,733 Keith: I think there's no such thing as ever too late except But I was 74 00:04:03,733 --> 00:04:07,903 a dancer and I can tell you that my body is telling me that now it is too 75 00:04:07,903 --> 00:04:09,463 late to continue to be in a dancer. 76 00:04:09,463 --> 00:04:12,563 So there are some things where, yes, it can be too late. 77 00:04:12,593 --> 00:04:15,203 But learning is definitely not one of those things. 78 00:04:15,263 --> 00:04:19,933 And in my opinion, you should be learning for your entire lifetime. 79 00:04:19,943 --> 00:04:23,583 That's hence lifelong learning means that for the trajectory of your 80 00:04:23,633 --> 00:04:24,563 life, you're going to be learning. 81 00:04:25,303 --> 00:04:30,693 to Your second question in terms of higher education versus work experience. 82 00:04:31,308 --> 00:04:36,388 They bring different advantage points and also different challenges. 83 00:04:36,418 --> 00:04:42,901 I think you can't replace the practical experience, that hands on experience. 84 00:04:42,951 --> 00:04:44,541 It's extremely valuable. 85 00:04:44,891 --> 00:04:48,801 For me personally, I think it was great that my higher 86 00:04:48,801 --> 00:04:50,861 education came later in my life. 87 00:04:51,416 --> 00:04:57,993 To where what I was learning had relevance and context and I understood 88 00:04:58,143 --> 00:05:02,113 and I knew how to apply it because I had that real world experience 89 00:05:02,143 --> 00:05:08,609 versus when I tried to start my higher education younger at 16, 17, I just 90 00:05:08,609 --> 00:05:10,099 didn't understand how to apply it. 91 00:05:10,489 --> 00:05:15,489 I think that there is a need for both, and the relevance and contextualization 92 00:05:15,499 --> 00:05:19,229 is what's a really valuable, important concept of maybe doing 93 00:05:19,229 --> 00:05:20,849 the higher education later in life. 94 00:05:20,899 --> 00:05:25,639 If I had kids, I would advocate for them to get a job, get that experience, 95 00:05:25,639 --> 00:05:29,369 that practice, go back and get their higher education once they had a 96 00:05:29,369 --> 00:05:30,749 place where they could actually apply 97 00:05:30,749 --> 00:05:30,919 Melissa: it. 98 00:05:31,759 --> 00:05:36,029 Now, of course, we want to get to your book, which, by the way, is a huge 99 00:05:36,029 --> 00:05:40,249 feat in itself, taking the time to sit down, do the research, compile your 100 00:05:40,249 --> 00:05:44,049 thoughts, and then have it published, of course, so congratulations there. 101 00:05:44,349 --> 00:05:48,189 But the Trusted Learning Advisor, as it's known, I know there are several 102 00:05:48,189 --> 00:05:52,939 topics that are addressed and discussed, but could you give us a high level 103 00:05:52,939 --> 00:05:57,289 overview of how it redefines a learning leader in today's organizations? 104 00:05:58,181 --> 00:06:00,961 Keith: So I've been in the industry for over 23 years. 105 00:06:01,011 --> 00:06:03,251 I started when I was five, if you're trying to do the math. 106 00:06:03,851 --> 00:06:08,211 And I spent the majority of that time as an order taker, letting somebody else 107 00:06:08,211 --> 00:06:13,591 decide who, what, where, when, why, and how a learning intervention needed to 108 00:06:13,591 --> 00:06:17,861 occur, and then giving me or my team that order, and then waiting for us to 109 00:06:17,861 --> 00:06:19,411 execute it, and we would execute it. 110 00:06:19,901 --> 00:06:24,371 And to put it mildly, I am exhausted with being treated like an order taker, 111 00:06:24,371 --> 00:06:26,781 and I know a lot of our industry is. 112 00:06:27,291 --> 00:06:30,801 And, regardless of the amount of experience that I had or the 113 00:06:30,801 --> 00:06:33,441 potential value that I could be providing in organizations, 114 00:06:33,461 --> 00:06:34,551 this is how we were treated. 115 00:06:34,561 --> 00:06:39,151 So this book is a culmination of those skills, those strategies, those 116 00:06:39,171 --> 00:06:43,311 best practices that I've learned that over the years have helped me and 117 00:06:43,311 --> 00:06:47,541 my teams to overcome being treated like order takers and that the 118 00:06:47,541 --> 00:06:52,191 preconceived notions and biases that our stakeholders often have towards us. 119 00:06:52,741 --> 00:06:53,481 The book is. 120 00:06:53,961 --> 00:06:58,261 Part manifesto, part toolkit, part motivational mentor. 121 00:06:58,621 --> 00:07:03,701 That's helping to support every level of L and D or talent practitioners to develop 122 00:07:03,701 --> 00:07:09,211 the skills and capabilities that we need to be strategic business partners that 123 00:07:09,211 --> 00:07:11,421 are embedded in the business who are. 124 00:07:11,796 --> 00:07:15,036 Sought after, listened to, trusted. 125 00:07:15,546 --> 00:07:20,636 That's what all of us strive to achieve, I think as leaders in our organizations. 126 00:07:20,636 --> 00:07:24,616 But if you think about specifically, how does it help learning leaders, 127 00:07:24,636 --> 00:07:25,976 talent development leaders? 128 00:07:26,381 --> 00:07:30,111 We have a tremendous amount of value that we can be providing to the business. 129 00:07:30,421 --> 00:07:34,801 And this book is a guide into how you can build those relationships, 130 00:07:35,001 --> 00:07:38,711 become a strategic business partner with your stakeholders so that they 131 00:07:38,711 --> 00:07:43,061 can recognize the value that you have to provide to the organization. 132 00:07:43,378 --> 00:07:45,908 Because our job is simply to support the talent. 133 00:07:46,008 --> 00:07:49,088 And we look at what is the most important resource in every organization. 134 00:07:50,889 --> 00:07:55,179 Melissa: And one follow up question for those who maybe haven't worked within 135 00:07:55,379 --> 00:07:58,939 the corporate sector or an organization where there's a shared service 136 00:07:58,939 --> 00:08:00,679 function like learning and development. 137 00:08:01,019 --> 00:08:05,259 Maybe the perception for people who have not come up in learning and development 138 00:08:05,259 --> 00:08:07,139 may say you have a doctorate in education. 139 00:08:07,139 --> 00:08:08,679 You have a master's in education. 140 00:08:08,699 --> 00:08:10,219 How is the business not? 141 00:08:10,564 --> 00:08:13,134 Taking you as a trusted learning advisor already. 142 00:08:13,454 --> 00:08:17,864 Can you speak to some of the challenges of liaising with some of 143 00:08:17,864 --> 00:08:20,034 the functional groups, sales marketing, 144 00:08:20,284 --> 00:08:24,834 and although you have that experience in education, the business has 145 00:08:24,834 --> 00:08:26,834 expertise in their specific function. 146 00:08:27,044 --> 00:08:28,704 So how do you break down those barriers? 147 00:08:29,388 --> 00:08:32,198 Keith: It's a great question, but let me just respond to the first 148 00:08:32,198 --> 00:08:36,210 part of that my credentials haven't changed the way I'm treated, honestly. 149 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:42,540 I think it's important that I share that because I had this expectation 150 00:08:42,540 --> 00:08:44,100 that once I got those credentials. 151 00:08:44,615 --> 00:08:45,165 That was it. 152 00:08:45,245 --> 00:08:49,125 And I would be invited into the room and to the conversations and to be 153 00:08:49,125 --> 00:08:52,735 able to drive those strategies and I can say that it's not really changed. 154 00:08:52,765 --> 00:08:57,355 It is a constant journey for us to be treated like trusted learning 155 00:08:57,355 --> 00:09:00,875 advisors, for us to be treated like strategic business partners. 156 00:09:01,065 --> 00:09:05,195 And it comes down to the way that we act, the way that we behave, our credibility, 157 00:09:05,215 --> 00:09:06,995 our experience, our expertise. 158 00:09:07,475 --> 00:09:10,715 But to your specific question, it comes down to our relationships. 159 00:09:10,790 --> 00:09:17,020 That's really the core essence of what it means to have a seat at the table or 160 00:09:17,020 --> 00:09:20,810 to be building your own table and to be in those conversations with any of those 161 00:09:20,810 --> 00:09:25,110 other business units or stakeholders, its trust and its relationships. 162 00:09:25,390 --> 00:09:28,030 And so that's the most important thing that we can be focusing 163 00:09:28,030 --> 00:09:31,400 on is understanding from our stakeholders perspective. 164 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:32,580 What are their challenges? 165 00:09:32,580 --> 00:09:35,040 How can we help them achieve their goals? 166 00:09:35,380 --> 00:09:37,080 Another way that I like to think of it is. 167 00:09:37,495 --> 00:09:42,855 Our job is to make our stakeholders the hero of their own story. 168 00:09:43,555 --> 00:09:46,155 It's not to make L& D look good. 169 00:09:46,245 --> 00:09:49,185 And for so many years I'll raise my hand and say I did it as well. 170 00:09:49,505 --> 00:09:53,125 I had my own goals that I wanted to accomplish, and I had my own agendas. 171 00:09:53,485 --> 00:09:58,625 And so L& D is often segregated from the rest of the business units, deriving 172 00:09:58,625 --> 00:10:01,685 their own agenda, their own value propositions, their own measurements. 173 00:10:02,115 --> 00:10:03,895 And it's only relevant to us. 174 00:10:04,370 --> 00:10:06,490 And at the end of the day, we need to be focusing on what's 175 00:10:06,490 --> 00:10:07,870 relevant to those stakeholders. 176 00:10:08,990 --> 00:10:11,320 Melissa: Also in your book, you discuss the shift from 177 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,010 transactional to strategic learning. 178 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:15,520 Tell us a little bit more about that. 179 00:10:16,403 --> 00:10:21,233 Keith: So I'm going to share with you three kind of Examples of that. 180 00:10:21,443 --> 00:10:22,403 There's many more in the book. 181 00:10:22,403 --> 00:10:23,513 So check out the book. 182 00:10:23,893 --> 00:10:27,395 But traditionally, order takers are transactional. 183 00:10:27,625 --> 00:10:32,885 So to begin with, learning leaders need to broaden their perspective beyond just 184 00:10:32,885 --> 00:10:35,285 delivering training or learning programs. 185 00:10:35,615 --> 00:10:38,355 And this means going back to my earlier statement that we've got 186 00:10:38,355 --> 00:10:43,545 to broaden our business context in how our business is operating. 187 00:10:43,545 --> 00:10:47,165 So I think that's where you were headed is do we have to be subject 188 00:10:47,165 --> 00:10:48,925 matter experts in the business? 189 00:10:49,265 --> 00:10:52,935 We don't have to be experts, but we have to have an understanding of our 190 00:10:52,935 --> 00:10:57,345 business of our stakeholders so that we can speak their language because more 191 00:10:57,345 --> 00:11:02,365 often than not, we're using our own vocabulary, our own lexicons, our own 192 00:11:02,605 --> 00:11:07,575 definitions and acronyms, and it's not our stakeholders job to understand us. 193 00:11:08,330 --> 00:11:11,320 It is our job to understand our stakeholders. 194 00:11:11,540 --> 00:11:14,980 So ultimately it's about aligning our learning strategies with the 195 00:11:15,020 --> 00:11:19,800 organizational goals and being able to demonstrate how learning initiatives 196 00:11:19,970 --> 00:11:21,680 contribute to those objectives. 197 00:11:21,900 --> 00:11:24,080 And this alignment is absolutely critical. 198 00:11:24,090 --> 00:11:26,980 It's not just delivering those solutions, but ensuring the solution 199 00:11:26,990 --> 00:11:29,210 drive tangible business outcome. 200 00:11:29,740 --> 00:11:30,530 So that's number one. 201 00:11:31,070 --> 00:11:31,790 Number two. 202 00:11:32,870 --> 00:11:36,830 Building robust relationships with our stakeholders across the organization. 203 00:11:36,830 --> 00:11:39,640 I know I'm repeating myself, but it needs to be repeated 204 00:11:39,650 --> 00:11:41,420 because so often it's overlooked. 205 00:11:41,730 --> 00:11:45,780 It requires stepping out of that traditional L and D silo and engaging 206 00:11:46,390 --> 00:11:50,710 with those different departments and being embedded across the organization, 207 00:11:50,950 --> 00:11:55,610 looking Holistically in following the concepts of systems thinking, and I'll 208 00:11:55,610 --> 00:11:57,590 give an example to listeners and viewers. 209 00:11:58,230 --> 00:12:01,170 Finance your chief financial officer. 210 00:12:01,990 --> 00:12:03,820 That should be one of your key stakeholders. 211 00:12:03,820 --> 00:12:07,210 We should be partnering with every business unit, hr, 212 00:12:07,215 --> 00:12:10,030 marketing, IT, and finance. 213 00:12:10,310 --> 00:12:11,630 The chief financial officer. 214 00:12:11,630 --> 00:12:16,490 That person's role is to determine the value of every business unit 215 00:12:16,490 --> 00:12:19,610 in the organization and to drive value for the organization. 216 00:12:19,970 --> 00:12:23,770 If you don't have a relationship with them, how are they determining the 217 00:12:23,780 --> 00:12:25,840 value of the work that you're providing? 218 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:27,380 I don't know. 219 00:12:27,620 --> 00:12:30,660 That's why you need to build a relationship with them to make sure 220 00:12:30,830 --> 00:12:33,620 that you're connected and that you see them as a stakeholder and they 221 00:12:33,620 --> 00:12:36,970 see you as a valuable contributing member to the organization. 222 00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:40,980 It's about becoming a partner rather than just a service provider. 223 00:12:41,250 --> 00:12:45,300 And then number three, it's fostering a continuous. 224 00:12:45,490 --> 00:12:52,190 Learning culture within that organization, this means not just focusing on formal 225 00:12:52,190 --> 00:12:58,450 training programs, but really promoting and facilitating informal and social 226 00:12:58,500 --> 00:13:02,990 and knowledge sharing and supporting employee led learning initiatives. 227 00:13:03,090 --> 00:13:06,730 I know that was a mouthful, but those are at least three kind of examples 228 00:13:06,730 --> 00:13:07,860 that I would share in terms of. 229 00:13:08,210 --> 00:13:08,750 Your question. 230 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:11,230 Melissa: No, that makes a lot of sense. 231 00:13:11,260 --> 00:13:14,830 And in fact, I wanted to talk a little bit more about that value that 232 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,500 you mentioned, because I'm sure in your experience, you've seen that 233 00:13:18,500 --> 00:13:23,310 success metrics are often hard to display back to the business, right? 234 00:13:23,310 --> 00:13:28,810 It's more of a long game versus short term, quarter over quarter, maybe, 235 00:13:28,810 --> 00:13:30,720 halves over halves, maybe even the year. 236 00:13:30,730 --> 00:13:33,510 Sometimes you need longer than that to demonstrate the effectiveness 237 00:13:33,530 --> 00:13:35,480 of L& D within an organization. 238 00:13:35,530 --> 00:13:39,020 So given that, can you share your insights on what success 239 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:40,780 metrics should focus on today? 240 00:13:41,338 --> 00:13:41,908 Keith: Absolutely. 241 00:13:41,908 --> 00:13:44,838 And this is going to be maybe a little bit controversial and different 242 00:13:44,838 --> 00:13:49,318 from other speakers, but this is my perspective based on my experience. 243 00:13:49,688 --> 00:13:53,993 The most important recommendation I could share for this question is this. 244 00:13:54,793 --> 00:13:58,933 Success is dependent on your context. 245 00:13:59,223 --> 00:14:04,953 It doesn't matter what I deem as success criteria or what you or what anyone 246 00:14:04,953 --> 00:14:09,243 else in the industry says is the success criteria we should be monitoring. 247 00:14:09,533 --> 00:14:14,993 It is solely dependent on the need of what you are solving for your stakeholder. 248 00:14:15,933 --> 00:14:17,893 Are you solving for them? 249 00:14:18,333 --> 00:14:19,233 Too often. 250 00:14:19,643 --> 00:14:23,543 We try to put these generalizations on success metrics and make these 251 00:14:23,553 --> 00:14:27,883 sweeping statements that, oh, we should be measuring this or measuring that. 252 00:14:28,233 --> 00:14:31,843 But if we're doing that, and as LMD practitioners, we're sharing 253 00:14:31,843 --> 00:14:36,283 these sentiments about measuring something we deem valuable, but 254 00:14:36,283 --> 00:14:38,173 our stakeholders don't agree. 255 00:14:38,693 --> 00:14:40,453 In the end, are we successful? 256 00:14:40,893 --> 00:14:46,153 And I have spent so many years failing at this because we were creating 257 00:14:46,153 --> 00:14:47,893 these success metrics in isolation. 258 00:14:47,943 --> 00:14:49,743 And I thought that we were being successful. 259 00:14:50,073 --> 00:14:53,043 And then I package this up and I go back to my stakeholder and present it. 260 00:14:53,053 --> 00:14:55,213 And they say, no, that's not important to us. 261 00:14:55,463 --> 00:14:56,583 That's not valuable to us. 262 00:14:56,593 --> 00:14:59,973 So we have to ask ourselves the question, are we measuring what 263 00:14:59,973 --> 00:15:04,223 is important and necessary and driving value to the business? 264 00:15:04,903 --> 00:15:07,353 If you're not, that's where you need to be focusing on. 265 00:15:07,363 --> 00:15:12,023 So start first with what business problems are we trying to solve for, and then 266 00:15:12,053 --> 00:15:14,043 figure out how you measure that impact. 267 00:15:14,363 --> 00:15:16,533 But if I were to answer the question a little bit more 268 00:15:16,573 --> 00:15:18,633 tactically, I would say this. 269 00:15:19,048 --> 00:15:22,338 Skill acquisition remains a fundamental metric. 270 00:15:22,408 --> 00:15:23,058 Absolutely. 271 00:15:23,748 --> 00:15:27,898 It's essential that we need to understand how the skill acquisition 272 00:15:27,958 --> 00:15:29,758 is impacting business outcomes. 273 00:15:29,978 --> 00:15:33,778 We need to measure how newly acquired skills are translated into improved 274 00:15:33,778 --> 00:15:35,998 performance and higher productivity. 275 00:15:35,998 --> 00:15:36,858 And ultimately. 276 00:15:37,163 --> 00:15:39,543 Contributing to the overall organization goal. 277 00:15:40,164 --> 00:15:45,594 Also, fostering a culture of continuous learning is equally as important. 278 00:15:45,914 --> 00:15:49,164 In today's changing business environment, the ability of an 279 00:15:49,174 --> 00:15:54,334 organization to adapt and evolve continuously is absolutely critical. 280 00:15:55,174 --> 00:15:58,944 I know I started with not creating a generalized statement. 281 00:15:58,954 --> 00:16:02,334 I think it starts first contextually understanding what's important to your 282 00:16:02,334 --> 00:16:06,534 organization, the business goals, your stakeholders, but I think also we can look 283 00:16:06,534 --> 00:16:11,124 at skill acquisition, how it's improving performance metrics, higher productivity. 284 00:16:11,384 --> 00:16:15,044 Decreasing turnover and then also fostering a continuous 285 00:16:15,094 --> 00:16:15,504 learning environment. 286 00:16:16,508 --> 00:16:19,638 Melissa: Your book also makes note of future forward frameworks. 287 00:16:19,698 --> 00:16:20,828 What does that mean exactly? 288 00:16:21,948 --> 00:16:22,128 When I 289 00:16:22,128 --> 00:16:25,198 Keith: talk about future forward frameworks for learning leaders, 290 00:16:25,278 --> 00:16:29,218 I'm really referring to innovative approaches and strategies that help 291 00:16:29,218 --> 00:16:30,828 them meet the needs of the learners. 292 00:16:31,468 --> 00:16:36,585 And to me, innovation is like The word interesting, it can have so many 293 00:16:36,625 --> 00:16:39,255 different contexts or meaning to it. 294 00:16:39,275 --> 00:16:42,975 So innovation to me means that you're just doing something differently. 295 00:16:43,205 --> 00:16:45,865 It's not necessarily technology driven. 296 00:16:46,125 --> 00:16:50,675 It's just applying a different mindset, a different approach. 297 00:16:50,685 --> 00:16:54,275 So the frameworks that I talk about in the book are crucial for those 298 00:16:54,275 --> 00:16:58,935 who may feel that Maybe their current learning methods are falling short in 299 00:16:58,935 --> 00:17:03,955 terms of effectiveness or relevance, but specifically a future forward 300 00:17:03,995 --> 00:17:10,075 framework means moving beyond that traditional one size fits all approach. 301 00:17:10,395 --> 00:17:16,640 And I go back to the comment a little few minutes ago in terms of There's not 302 00:17:16,660 --> 00:17:21,380 a one size fits all approach when it comes to L& D, especially organizational 303 00:17:21,390 --> 00:17:28,180 L& D, for me, it's more about adopting a holistic learner centric approach 304 00:17:28,360 --> 00:17:31,050 that recognizes we have diverse needs. 305 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,890 We have learning approaches or maybe preferences. 306 00:17:34,930 --> 00:17:38,120 We have career aspirations of individual learners. 307 00:17:38,580 --> 00:17:43,770 And so what I look at is I'm a design thinking practitioner and I use design 308 00:17:43,770 --> 00:17:49,010 thinking to help me conduct qualitative research in the organization to figure 309 00:17:49,010 --> 00:17:55,040 out what do our learners need and then from there work backwards to create a 310 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,090 framework that can help support them. 311 00:17:57,570 --> 00:18:00,850 And so really in summary, my, my answer is it's just not a 312 00:18:00,850 --> 00:18:02,810 one size fits all approach. 313 00:18:03,775 --> 00:18:06,545 Melissa: And I wanted to ask this question as well, too, because I'm 314 00:18:06,545 --> 00:18:12,595 sure a lot of people in the industry would probably agree and or remember a 315 00:18:12,595 --> 00:18:14,345 time where they were in this position. 316 00:18:14,765 --> 00:18:18,995 What would you consider a best practice working with functional leaders who 317 00:18:18,995 --> 00:18:23,750 maybe do not share the same school of thought of a continuous learning culture? 318 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:24,040 What are your 319 00:18:24,270 --> 00:18:24,470 Keith: thoughts? 320 00:18:25,570 --> 00:18:28,720 I think to be honest, I think that's most leaders. 321 00:18:29,265 --> 00:18:33,875 Most leaders want that immediate return on, I'm going to say investment, 322 00:18:33,875 --> 00:18:37,605 although I don't care for that phrase ROI, they want that immediate impact, 323 00:18:37,875 --> 00:18:41,975 even the ones who believe in lifelong learning or continuous learning, 324 00:18:42,395 --> 00:18:43,895 it's like there's two pathways. 325 00:18:44,460 --> 00:18:48,020 Oh, in theory, yes, lifelong learning and continuous learning is important for 326 00:18:48,020 --> 00:18:54,580 the organization, except for me, when I need to get some results now, I want 327 00:18:54,580 --> 00:18:56,980 that value, I want that impact today. 328 00:18:56,980 --> 00:18:58,770 So I don't have, six, 12 months. 329 00:18:59,260 --> 00:19:03,020 That's something that we consistently face, I think, with every leader. 330 00:19:03,315 --> 00:19:08,795 And that's where your influence skills, your negotiating skills, 331 00:19:08,965 --> 00:19:11,485 your research skills come into play. 332 00:19:12,045 --> 00:19:16,945 One of my preferred approaches and tactics is I try to take myself 333 00:19:17,005 --> 00:19:21,416 out of the equation and I don't want I don't want my stakeholders 334 00:19:21,416 --> 00:19:24,931 to say that's your perspective, Keith, you don't know my business. 335 00:19:25,251 --> 00:19:27,021 I don't, I want my name kept out of it. 336 00:19:27,381 --> 00:19:33,511 I consider myself an intermediary between other leaders in the 337 00:19:33,531 --> 00:19:36,361 organization or in our industry data. 338 00:19:36,381 --> 00:19:38,741 So for example, I use World Economic Forum. 339 00:19:38,751 --> 00:19:40,691 I use McKinsey Global Institute. 340 00:19:40,901 --> 00:19:44,951 I use Deloitte and I pull from these research firms. 341 00:19:45,256 --> 00:19:50,076 To try and demonstrate the point, for example, if you're a question 342 00:19:50,076 --> 00:19:53,506 about the sales leader, just wants that one day workshop. 343 00:19:53,536 --> 00:19:55,656 What's the problem we're actually trying to solve? 344 00:19:55,656 --> 00:19:57,276 What's the behavior we're trying to change? 345 00:19:57,886 --> 00:20:00,246 Is it a tool? 346 00:20:00,246 --> 00:20:01,196 Is it a process? 347 00:20:01,236 --> 00:20:03,116 Is it actually performance driven? 348 00:20:03,676 --> 00:20:06,476 Is there something else in the value chain that's stopping them 349 00:20:06,986 --> 00:20:08,406 understanding all of those pieces? 350 00:20:08,406 --> 00:20:14,686 But then if I'm trying to package a solution for them, it's Using the other 351 00:20:14,686 --> 00:20:19,666 data that exists other experts in the field, bringing other voices into the 352 00:20:19,666 --> 00:20:24,656 conversation so that it's less about me trying to prove a point and change 353 00:20:24,706 --> 00:20:31,066 their mindset, but about helping them become educated in how we actually drive 354 00:20:31,066 --> 00:20:32,716 change through learning and development. 355 00:20:33,336 --> 00:20:36,336 And that's a slippery slope because as I mentioned earlier, it's 356 00:20:36,336 --> 00:20:40,646 not their job to understand our tools, our frameworks and such. 357 00:20:41,066 --> 00:20:45,356 It's our job to figure out how do we translate everything that we know 358 00:20:45,626 --> 00:20:49,476 about the right way to learn, when it is the right appropriate time, 359 00:20:49,886 --> 00:20:53,096 translate that into a way that's meaningful, understandable, and 360 00:20:53,096 --> 00:20:54,816 digestible to those stakeholders. 361 00:20:55,206 --> 00:21:00,326 And that's the real skill set that we have to constantly be developing. 362 00:21:01,266 --> 00:21:04,176 Melissa: As you may know, the organizational landscape 363 00:21:04,176 --> 00:21:07,846 is rapidly evolving due to technological advancements. 364 00:21:07,876 --> 00:21:12,526 Of course this year, as an example, generative AI was in the news quite a bit. 365 00:21:13,206 --> 00:21:16,946 So how can learning leaders stay ahead of the curve and adapt some 366 00:21:16,946 --> 00:21:20,066 of their strategies to meet the demands of the modern workplace? 367 00:21:20,699 --> 00:21:25,619 Keith: I've had a number of conversations recently with chief learning officers 368 00:21:25,669 --> 00:21:31,099 and learning leaders even higher education professors, where they have 369 00:21:31,099 --> 00:21:36,699 not yet started to use Gen AI, or specifically I'll just call out ChatGPT. 370 00:21:37,569 --> 00:21:43,079 The answer to your question is you stay ahead by being aware by learning. 371 00:21:43,079 --> 00:21:44,569 We're all learning right now. 372 00:21:44,609 --> 00:21:48,199 We don't know how this is going to play out, but there is one thing that we know. 373 00:21:48,819 --> 00:21:53,919 There is no version of the future that exists without AI. 374 00:21:54,766 --> 00:21:58,896 AI, like technology or the internet, is here and it is 375 00:21:59,086 --> 00:22:00,896 going to be here for our future. 376 00:22:01,156 --> 00:22:06,376 The best thing that you can do is embrace it, understand it, learn it, figure out 377 00:22:06,386 --> 00:22:09,116 how you can leverage it to do its job. 378 00:22:09,646 --> 00:22:14,896 Its job is to help augment you, to free you up from some of those 379 00:22:15,741 --> 00:22:19,431 Tasks and activities that technology can do better than us so that you 380 00:22:19,431 --> 00:22:21,471 can focus on your core skill set. 381 00:22:22,351 --> 00:22:25,571 So the answer to your question is we should be absolutely embracing 382 00:22:25,881 --> 00:22:31,241 technology and tools when it comes to helping our organizations learn. 383 00:22:31,241 --> 00:22:34,561 And the way that you start is by simply Learning them yourselves. 384 00:22:34,891 --> 00:22:36,211 You don't have to become an A. 385 00:22:36,211 --> 00:22:36,351 I. 386 00:22:36,381 --> 00:22:36,831 Expert. 387 00:22:36,841 --> 00:22:38,501 It's evolving so quickly. 388 00:22:38,511 --> 00:22:41,491 I think last year towards the end of last year, there was maybe 30 389 00:22:41,491 --> 00:22:43,791 40 companies focusing on this. 390 00:22:43,801 --> 00:22:45,111 Now there's thousands. 391 00:22:45,291 --> 00:22:49,901 It's evolving every single day, but you have to stay abreast of that. 392 00:22:50,081 --> 00:22:53,351 And as a trusted learning advisor, you have to be aware 393 00:22:53,351 --> 00:22:55,081 of all of the tools that exist. 394 00:22:55,481 --> 00:22:57,746 I view our job as Yeah. 395 00:22:58,166 --> 00:23:00,956 We need to have the biggest toolkit possible. 396 00:23:01,016 --> 00:23:08,496 And that means you understand everything from LMS, LXP, MOOC, AR, VR, MR, AI. 397 00:23:08,736 --> 00:23:10,766 What are the use cases for each of those? 398 00:23:10,776 --> 00:23:12,346 What are the vendors that are out there? 399 00:23:12,546 --> 00:23:14,526 When should you use one, not the other? 400 00:23:14,526 --> 00:23:19,276 What's the difference between SuccessFactors and EdCast and Docebo? 401 00:23:19,811 --> 00:23:25,221 Should you have an LXP and why should you have an LXP so that when 402 00:23:25,281 --> 00:23:28,721 these organizational problems arise, when our stakeholders bring us a 403 00:23:28,721 --> 00:23:32,741 problem, we identify a problem, we go into our tool kit and we find the 404 00:23:32,741 --> 00:23:35,051 right tool to solve that problem. 405 00:23:35,601 --> 00:23:38,481 And that means that we have to keep our biases out of it. 406 00:23:39,091 --> 00:23:41,181 It's not what tool I like. 407 00:23:41,191 --> 00:23:43,091 It's what tool is going to solve the right problem. 408 00:23:43,091 --> 00:23:45,491 And part of those tools include things like. 409 00:23:45,736 --> 00:23:51,646 Kirkpatrick's Level 4, Phillip's ROI, LTIM's, Wilhelm Thalheimer's LTIM model. 410 00:23:52,086 --> 00:23:56,046 You may not like Kirkpatrick's Level 4, but you should understand it, because 411 00:23:56,046 --> 00:24:00,336 your stakeholders may know what a Level 3 is and be asking you about a Level 3. 412 00:24:00,686 --> 00:24:04,536 You should know the difference between, LTIM and Kirkpatrick. 413 00:24:04,801 --> 00:24:09,111 So long story short, it's our responsibility to have an awareness and an 414 00:24:09,131 --> 00:24:11,661 understanding of all the tools that exist. 415 00:24:11,741 --> 00:24:15,991 It can feel overwhelming, but we don't have to be know it alls. 416 00:24:16,241 --> 00:24:18,191 We need to be learn it alls. 417 00:24:18,381 --> 00:24:21,611 I'm not an expert in every single one of those tools, but I have 418 00:24:21,611 --> 00:24:22,891 an awareness of what they are. 419 00:24:22,891 --> 00:24:26,481 So when that problem does arrive, I can figure out which tool do I need to use. 420 00:24:26,766 --> 00:24:27,916 to help solve that problem. 421 00:24:29,116 --> 00:24:32,076 Melissa: And that probably answers some of my next question for you. 422 00:24:32,296 --> 00:24:35,926 In your book, also, you emphasize human talent as the cornerstone 423 00:24:35,946 --> 00:24:37,786 of organizational success. 424 00:24:38,186 --> 00:24:41,836 Can you share some best practices around talent development that you believe 425 00:24:41,846 --> 00:24:43,546 every learning leader should be aware of? 426 00:24:43,596 --> 00:24:46,696 I believe you just answered a good portion of it, but anything else 427 00:24:46,696 --> 00:24:48,006 you have to offer would be great. 428 00:24:48,534 --> 00:24:49,434 Keith: Get the book. 429 00:24:51,444 --> 00:24:53,034 It's all in there. 430 00:24:53,034 --> 00:24:55,994 If you want to know everything that I think about that, 431 00:24:56,004 --> 00:24:57,294 it's literally all in there. 432 00:24:57,334 --> 00:25:04,884 As I mentioned, it's, I wrote it as a way to download my 25 years of experience 433 00:25:04,944 --> 00:25:07,294 and it is truly a practical guide. 434 00:25:07,294 --> 00:25:11,554 It is not a thought leader, ethereal book. 435 00:25:11,554 --> 00:25:14,344 It's here's the, you want to build relationships. 436 00:25:14,679 --> 00:25:15,719 Here are best practices. 437 00:25:15,719 --> 00:25:16,409 You want to build trust? 438 00:25:16,409 --> 00:25:17,299 Here are best practices. 439 00:25:17,299 --> 00:25:19,029 You want to build your skills and learning practitioner? 440 00:25:19,189 --> 00:25:20,649 Here are the best practices. 441 00:25:21,309 --> 00:25:26,209 So in terms of answering your question, I would say definitely check out the book. 442 00:25:26,259 --> 00:25:28,529 There are other tools like design thinking. 443 00:25:28,629 --> 00:25:33,339 Every talent development practitioner should be fully aware and immersing 444 00:25:33,339 --> 00:25:37,279 themselves in design thinking as a tool to be solving problems. 445 00:25:37,299 --> 00:25:42,909 If you think about what do we do as talent development leaders, we develop humans. 446 00:25:43,284 --> 00:25:46,334 And our humans have problems and we need to solve those problems. 447 00:25:46,574 --> 00:25:51,524 Design thinking is a fantastic tool for that because it is a framework that 448 00:25:51,534 --> 00:25:53,894 gives us a structure that we can follow. 449 00:25:54,264 --> 00:25:57,304 And what I love about frameworks and methodologies 450 00:25:57,724 --> 00:25:59,814 is in some way it's a shield. 451 00:26:00,004 --> 00:26:03,294 Earlier you were asking what happens when your stakeholders, push back 452 00:26:03,294 --> 00:26:04,944 and they don't want to follow along? 453 00:26:05,509 --> 00:26:09,159 I use these methodologies as my shield to say, Hey, it's not Keith that's 454 00:26:09,159 --> 00:26:11,309 saying that it's design thinking. 455 00:26:11,309 --> 00:26:12,369 This is the methodology. 456 00:26:12,369 --> 00:26:14,129 It's a scientific methodology. 457 00:26:14,219 --> 00:26:15,139 Stanford uses it. 458 00:26:15,139 --> 00:26:16,399 These are all the companies that use it. 459 00:26:16,589 --> 00:26:19,379 Here's how, why we should use it and the value of it. 460 00:26:19,649 --> 00:26:24,039 And it takes the individual, the human me out of it. 461 00:26:24,049 --> 00:26:27,329 So it's less about my voice and it's more about solving the problem with 462 00:26:27,329 --> 00:26:30,489 this method, with this methodology. 463 00:26:30,789 --> 00:26:34,829 So I would leave that one with you, a human centered design thinking. 464 00:26:35,539 --> 00:26:36,659 Melissa: I have more to read. 465 00:26:36,689 --> 00:26:37,529 That is for sure. 466 00:26:39,039 --> 00:26:42,179 FInally, before we get into some more light hearted questions, I 467 00:26:42,179 --> 00:26:46,969 would love to ask your opinion on your newer title of doctor. 468 00:26:47,819 --> 00:26:51,769 In your honest opinion, what changed for you after you turned in your 469 00:26:51,769 --> 00:26:56,829 dissertation, which is a huge feat, and walked the stage to receive your degree? 470 00:26:56,839 --> 00:27:01,269 How did the Penn CLO program impact your career, do you think, 471 00:27:01,279 --> 00:27:02,339 if you could pick one thing? 472 00:27:02,689 --> 00:27:07,619 Keith: If I were going to pick one thing, I would say that It's made me a better, 473 00:27:07,699 --> 00:27:13,949 for lack of better words, truer learning leader in the sense that I know how to 474 00:27:13,949 --> 00:27:16,919 research now and I also know how to write. 475 00:27:17,233 --> 00:27:21,213 That's, I think that's the biggest the biggest value proposition for me is 476 00:27:21,223 --> 00:27:24,642 that I know how to coherently write. 477 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,090 I know how to research. 478 00:27:27,150 --> 00:27:28,470 I know how to formulate. 479 00:27:30,377 --> 00:27:36,137 But also it gave me a credibility to some people. 480 00:27:36,417 --> 00:27:40,007 Like I said, it hasn't changed all of the mindsets of stakeholders. 481 00:27:40,372 --> 00:27:44,372 It's given me a community of other leaders. 482 00:27:44,712 --> 00:27:46,637 And I think that , is one of the. 483 00:27:46,767 --> 00:27:50,797 biggest value propositions is that we're not going to solve this by ourself. 484 00:27:51,237 --> 00:27:51,807 No C. 485 00:27:51,807 --> 00:27:52,007 L. 486 00:27:52,007 --> 00:27:52,357 O. 487 00:27:52,537 --> 00:27:53,937 Is working siloed. 488 00:27:54,727 --> 00:27:59,937 My network is my greatest, I think value proposition is I'm connected 489 00:27:59,937 --> 00:28:03,377 to some of the most brilliant thought leaders in the world. 490 00:28:03,617 --> 00:28:07,662 And when I'm faced with a challenge Or a question I can 491 00:28:07,662 --> 00:28:09,592 go to them and talk about it. 492 00:28:10,112 --> 00:28:15,642 And so I think understand how to research me in a much better writer 493 00:28:16,022 --> 00:28:21,582 and connecting to brilliant thought leaders in my cohorts in the program 494 00:28:21,822 --> 00:28:23,092 has made me a better learning leader. 495 00:28:24,072 --> 00:28:25,842 Melissa: I Enjoyed your candid responses. 496 00:28:25,852 --> 00:28:26,732 Very insightful. 497 00:28:26,742 --> 00:28:27,582 Thank you so much. 498 00:28:27,632 --> 00:28:31,312 And I would now love to spend some time on some more lighthearted 499 00:28:31,312 --> 00:28:32,442 questions, if that's okay? 500 00:28:32,788 --> 00:28:33,268 Keith: Absolutely. 501 00:28:33,728 --> 00:28:34,128 Melissa: All right. 502 00:28:34,748 --> 00:28:35,858 So here's the first one. 503 00:28:36,188 --> 00:28:40,228 What would you recommend as one out of the box, unconventional way 504 00:28:40,228 --> 00:28:42,228 to learn something new and why? 505 00:28:42,905 --> 00:28:45,205 Keith: I think role playing. 506 00:28:45,900 --> 00:28:52,290 Immersive role playing is one of the best ways to learn, at least for me, it gives 507 00:28:52,290 --> 00:28:58,720 you the ability to practice, going back to trusted learning advisors, influence 508 00:28:58,730 --> 00:29:04,810 skills, negotiation skills, being able to have difficult conversations while 509 00:29:04,810 --> 00:29:08,730 these are valuable as a trusted learning advisor, it's valuable for any leader or 510 00:29:08,740 --> 00:29:13,890 any human And also something that a lot of people struggle with, and I found that 511 00:29:13,910 --> 00:29:18,960 role playing those discussions, those situations gives you the opportunity 512 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:25,530 to practice and until the words come out of your mouth, until your body 513 00:29:25,530 --> 00:29:30,790 language is experiencing that situation it's raw, it's new, you don't know how 514 00:29:30,790 --> 00:29:34,630 you're necessarily going to respond, and the more times that you can do that, 515 00:29:35,210 --> 00:29:36,500 the better you become, it's practice. 516 00:29:37,268 --> 00:29:41,358 Can you share a quirky or unusual skill or hobby that you've picked 517 00:29:41,358 --> 00:29:42,988 up that others may be interested in? 518 00:29:43,952 --> 00:29:49,262 My current skill is learning AI, learning chat GPT and how 519 00:29:49,302 --> 00:29:52,107 to Use it to make me better. 520 00:29:53,127 --> 00:29:57,867 And I love just trying different things with it every single day. 521 00:29:57,967 --> 00:30:03,607 It's my, my significant other has worried that I'm having too strong 522 00:30:03,607 --> 00:30:07,077 of a relationship with chat GPT, which now I just call it chat. 523 00:30:07,537 --> 00:30:09,697 And I, I'm talking about it every day. 524 00:30:09,757 --> 00:30:14,767 So I guess, a new hobby slash skill is learning how to use AI to. 525 00:30:15,055 --> 00:30:17,925 Free me up and make me better at what I do. 526 00:30:18,796 --> 00:30:21,526 Melissa: Alright, I would love to know what keeps you up at 527 00:30:21,526 --> 00:30:21,766 Keith: night. 528 00:30:22,503 --> 00:30:27,333 As a learning leader right now, what I'm concerned most about is the fact that 529 00:30:27,903 --> 00:30:34,093 Every leader in organizations across the globe are asking themselves, how can AI 530 00:30:34,193 --> 00:30:42,333 make our organization faster, more money, and more effective, and save costs? 531 00:30:42,413 --> 00:30:44,663 And when we say save costs, what we're talking about is 532 00:30:44,663 --> 00:30:46,113 resources, our human talent. 533 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,430 Every leader is asking themselves that. 534 00:30:48,805 --> 00:30:52,765 Right now, we're not seeing a massive wave in job reductions 535 00:30:52,795 --> 00:30:54,505 as of a I, but it is coming. 536 00:30:55,125 --> 00:30:58,775 And what keeps me up at night is my concern that as learning leaders, 537 00:30:59,195 --> 00:31:01,515 we're not getting ahead of this curve. 538 00:31:01,805 --> 00:31:05,605 We're not necessarily looking at our organization to figure out what roles. 539 00:31:05,925 --> 00:31:06,935 might be at risk. 540 00:31:07,175 --> 00:31:09,595 And we've been talking about the future of learning for years now. 541 00:31:09,595 --> 00:31:13,095 And by the way, I'm not a fan of that phrase because I feel like when we use 542 00:31:13,095 --> 00:31:18,315 the word future, we're giving ourself permission not to take action today and 543 00:31:18,405 --> 00:31:22,125 everything that we're talking about with the future of learning the future of work. 544 00:31:22,365 --> 00:31:24,025 Should be actionable today. 545 00:31:24,475 --> 00:31:27,895 And what has elevated this is AI is chat GPT. 546 00:31:28,945 --> 00:31:35,005 I know that in one of the organizations I work with, we could reduce our workforce 547 00:31:35,005 --> 00:31:37,775 by 30 percent in the next 12 months. 548 00:31:38,395 --> 00:31:39,475 I know that today. 549 00:31:39,955 --> 00:31:43,115 I know there are conversations happening behind closed doors 550 00:31:43,145 --> 00:31:44,655 where this is being discussed. 551 00:31:44,945 --> 00:31:46,565 No one is discussing it publicly. 552 00:31:46,805 --> 00:31:49,685 So it's my responsibility as a learning leader. 553 00:31:49,860 --> 00:31:54,100 to be taking that information and figuring out how do I help those people? 554 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:59,540 How do I help them start to upskill, reskill, second skill today, even if it's 555 00:31:59,540 --> 00:32:01,990 not going to happen for 12, 18, 24 months? 556 00:32:02,300 --> 00:32:05,420 And I don't think that enough learning leaders are thinking about that. 557 00:32:06,180 --> 00:32:10,200 So what keeps me up right now is I'm worried about our talent. 558 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,440 I'm worried that as learning leaders, we're missing the opportunity to get 559 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,710 ahead of this discussion by figuring out what roles might be at risk. 560 00:32:19,010 --> 00:32:22,010 Yes, our businesses might not have announced them. 561 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:23,500 HR might not know yet. 562 00:32:23,530 --> 00:32:26,830 Our stakeholders might not know yet, but we can know at 563 00:32:26,830 --> 00:32:28,400 least we can have some insight. 564 00:32:28,730 --> 00:32:33,540 Again, McKinsey Global Institute, World Economic Forum, the data exists on 565 00:32:33,540 --> 00:32:36,220 roles that AI can do better than us. 566 00:32:36,550 --> 00:32:40,100 So if we already have that data today, we should be planning for that right now. 567 00:32:40,510 --> 00:32:43,380 So answer your question, I'm worried that we're just not doing 568 00:32:43,380 --> 00:32:46,970 enough right now to help our talent prepare for what's coming soon. 569 00:32:47,733 --> 00:32:52,763 Melissa: So saying that, I'm curious to your thoughts of the news headlines 570 00:32:52,763 --> 00:33:00,253 that we've seen in late 2022 into 2023 with layoffs, yet there is a 571 00:33:00,283 --> 00:33:04,883 talent shortage with necessary skills that hiring leaders are looking for. 572 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,120 So how do we close that gap? 573 00:33:07,425 --> 00:33:12,885 Knowing that there's talented, skilled workers out there, but some of these 574 00:33:12,895 --> 00:33:18,205 positions that are open in organizations have highly prescriptive requirements. 575 00:33:18,375 --> 00:33:19,455 How do we close that gap? 576 00:33:20,408 --> 00:33:23,938 Keith: There's always this question of whose responsibility is it when we talk 577 00:33:23,948 --> 00:33:25,978 about lifelong learning and upskilling? 578 00:33:26,078 --> 00:33:28,048 Is it the organization's responsibility? 579 00:33:28,048 --> 00:33:29,768 Is it the governor's responsibility? 580 00:33:29,768 --> 00:33:30,078 Is it? 581 00:33:30,383 --> 00:33:32,283 The individual employee's responsibility. 582 00:33:32,746 --> 00:33:34,826 I'm going to say something a little bit controversial. 583 00:33:35,046 --> 00:33:36,936 I think it's the employee's responsibility. 584 00:33:37,496 --> 00:33:42,676 It's my responsibility as a human, as a worker, to make sure that I have 585 00:33:42,676 --> 00:33:45,846 the skills that I need to do my job. 586 00:33:46,556 --> 00:33:51,141 That means that it's also my responsibility to understand how to look. 587 00:33:51,351 --> 00:33:54,881 It the workforce, how to look at what's changing all of the 588 00:33:54,881 --> 00:33:58,071 things that we've talked about today are available to everybody. 589 00:33:58,771 --> 00:34:03,071 What I believe organizations need to be doing is to create 590 00:34:03,121 --> 00:34:07,741 opportunities to reinforce this point of being lifelong learners. 591 00:34:07,981 --> 00:34:11,961 So I don't expect my organization to upskill me and to make sure that I 592 00:34:11,981 --> 00:34:13,701 have a career for the rest of my life. 593 00:34:13,721 --> 00:34:16,081 They're looking out for the skills that they need. 594 00:34:16,082 --> 00:34:19,431 The answer to your question is the skill gaps. 595 00:34:19,506 --> 00:34:20,276 The layoffs are real. 596 00:34:20,516 --> 00:34:22,016 The talent shortage is real. 597 00:34:22,056 --> 00:34:23,976 The layoffs are also real. 598 00:34:24,356 --> 00:34:28,936 I think that we need to continuously be advocating for lifelong learning, 599 00:34:28,966 --> 00:34:35,826 create equitable opportunity for everyone to continue their learning, create 600 00:34:35,836 --> 00:34:38,026 space and time in the organization. 601 00:34:38,206 --> 00:34:40,616 If you look at organizations, they'll talk about, yes, 602 00:34:40,616 --> 00:34:41,686 continuous learning is important. 603 00:34:41,696 --> 00:34:42,666 Lifelong learning is important. 604 00:34:42,666 --> 00:34:47,066 And then you ask, how much time are you giving your employees? 605 00:34:47,526 --> 00:34:48,966 each year to learn. 606 00:34:49,396 --> 00:34:51,856 And I find that many can't answer that question. 607 00:34:51,866 --> 00:34:53,986 They don't have a set number of hours. 608 00:34:53,996 --> 00:34:58,506 So the most basic thing that every organization can do is give a minimum 609 00:34:58,506 --> 00:35:04,076 number of required hours that every employee needs to have to continuously 610 00:35:04,076 --> 00:35:05,946 be upskilling, developing themselves. 611 00:35:06,186 --> 00:35:09,116 40 hours is typically the number when an organization does say it. 612 00:35:09,386 --> 00:35:10,736 One week is not enough. 613 00:35:11,311 --> 00:35:15,491 One week is absolutely not enough, so you've got to figure out what's 614 00:35:15,491 --> 00:35:18,161 right for your organization, what's right for the roles, but create 615 00:35:18,161 --> 00:35:24,391 space, create equitable opportunities, things like tuition reimbursement is 616 00:35:24,401 --> 00:35:26,271 not the same as tuition assistance. 617 00:35:26,521 --> 00:35:30,481 Tuition reimbursement assumes the employee can carry that cost. 618 00:35:31,211 --> 00:35:35,911 Often the people that we're talking about are those that are hourly employees that 619 00:35:35,911 --> 00:35:41,211 cannot carry the cost of tuition, the cost of certifications for six months 620 00:35:41,211 --> 00:35:42,711 or however long the certification is. 621 00:35:42,961 --> 00:35:46,181 They're incurring the interest rate on top of that, which 622 00:35:46,391 --> 00:35:47,841 organizations don't reimburse. 623 00:35:47,851 --> 00:35:51,461 So it's actually not net even, it's a negative balance. 624 00:35:51,806 --> 00:35:54,776 The organization should be focusing on tuition assistance 625 00:35:54,806 --> 00:35:56,076 rather than tuition reimbursement. 626 00:35:56,126 --> 00:36:00,106 These are some examples of creating equitable opportunities to really 627 00:36:00,106 --> 00:36:02,136 have a lifelong learning culture. 628 00:36:02,866 --> 00:36:05,966 Melissa: Speaking of lifelong learning, I have just learned 629 00:36:05,966 --> 00:36:11,836 today that you were a former street jazz dancer and a backup dancer at 630 00:36:11,836 --> 00:36:13,326 one point for Christina Aguilera. 631 00:36:13,376 --> 00:36:16,406 Of course, I need to know more information on this. 632 00:36:17,761 --> 00:36:20,951 Were you in music videos or was this for concerts and 633 00:36:20,951 --> 00:36:21,581 Keith: shows? 634 00:36:22,171 --> 00:36:24,301 I am in a music video. 635 00:36:24,381 --> 00:36:26,071 I'm not going to say which one. 636 00:36:26,461 --> 00:36:29,581 And it was also for some shows. 637 00:36:30,156 --> 00:36:32,106 Right before the Bionic Tour. 638 00:36:32,746 --> 00:36:35,566 But then she ended up getting the voice and the Bionic Tour 639 00:36:35,566 --> 00:36:37,196 was canceled, unfortunately. 640 00:36:37,766 --> 00:36:41,446 I feel very blessed to have had the opportunity to have had a 641 00:36:41,496 --> 00:36:44,956 professional career and things that I love, I love what I do now. 642 00:36:45,226 --> 00:36:46,586 I'm extremely passionate about it. 643 00:36:46,586 --> 00:36:50,406 This is my calling, but I also have to have a completely separate career. 644 00:36:50,901 --> 00:36:56,301 is as a dancer what I'll say now is I'm paying for it for the rest of 645 00:36:56,311 --> 00:37:01,351 my life between back issues and just every day I can still feel the pain. 646 00:37:02,061 --> 00:37:02,451 Melissa: Okay. 647 00:37:03,201 --> 00:37:05,161 And what was the name of that music video one more time? 648 00:37:05,671 --> 00:37:06,611 Keith: The one I didn't tell you? 649 00:37:07,061 --> 00:37:08,291 It's not myself tonight. 650 00:37:08,821 --> 00:37:09,291 Melissa: Okay. 651 00:37:09,561 --> 00:37:10,991 I will have to check that out. 652 00:37:11,281 --> 00:37:14,441 But I want to say thank you so much for joining us today. 653 00:37:14,441 --> 00:37:18,311 I really enjoyed the conversation and you had some really great points. 654 00:37:18,581 --> 00:37:21,611 And of course, there's more to read up on in your book, 655 00:37:21,631 --> 00:37:23,151 The Trusted Learning Advisor. 656 00:37:23,521 --> 00:37:26,681 Definitely go ahead and grab your copy if interested. 657 00:37:27,091 --> 00:37:31,331 And then Keith, one question for you as the last step, if audience 658 00:37:31,331 --> 00:37:34,231 members would like to connect with you, what's the best way to do that? 659 00:37:34,745 --> 00:37:36,515 Keith: One quick comment before I answer that. 660 00:37:36,990 --> 00:37:39,340 Even if you're not interested in the book, you should still grab 661 00:37:39,340 --> 00:37:44,020 a copy because it is for every single L and D talent practitioner. 662 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,470 After you grab it and start reading it, then you might become interested. 663 00:37:46,470 --> 00:37:47,540 Sometimes you need that push. 664 00:37:47,710 --> 00:37:48,380 This is your push. 665 00:37:48,610 --> 00:37:49,180 Get the book. 666 00:37:49,510 --> 00:37:52,180 To continue connecting with me, LinkedIn is a great way. 667 00:37:52,210 --> 00:37:53,920 My personal website is keithkeating. 668 00:37:54,470 --> 00:37:58,670 com or if you want to learn more about the book, very easy website, 669 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,380 the trusted learning advisor. 670 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,080 Melissa: Thank you again so much. 671 00:38:03,110 --> 00:38:03,750 And we did it. 672 00:38:04,020 --> 00:38:04,050 Okay. 673 00:38:04,060 --> 00:38:06,030 Keith, we finished our first episode. 674 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:07,060 Thank you so much. 675 00:38:07,390 --> 00:38:07,920 Keith: Absolutely. 676 00:38:07,940 --> 00:38:08,600 Thanks, Melissa. 677 00:38:08,610 --> 00:38:09,140 I appreciate it. 678 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:09,970 Take care.