Jethro Jones: Welcome to Transformative Principal, where I help you stop
putting out fires and start leading.
I'm your host, Jethro Jones.
You can follow me on Twitter at Jethro Jones.
Welcome to Transformative Principal.
This is episode 537 and the last episode of this school year of coaching with Eric.
And uh, if you have not been hearing all of these, definitely go to the show notes
at Transformative Principal dot org where we have episodes, five oh one, five oh
six five ten five fourteen five nineteen, five twenty three five twenty seven.
5 32 and this episode there you can check out all of those conversations.
This has been super fun, Eric.
I'm so glad we've done this.
Eric Makelky: Yeah, that as you list those off, it seems like even more
coaching sessions than we've done.
That's a lot.
It's been a lot.
Jethro Jones: Yeah, I mean, I think that's pretty cool.
And what a testament to you of your dedication and willingness
and desire to get better and.
Continue to improve, you know, and I think that's awesome.
So good for you.
Eric Makelky: Yeah.
Thank you.
Thanks for being willing to do it and help me.
Jethro Jones: Yeah, I think it's been a lot of fun and we have
decided that we are, uh, going to write a book together, uh, on this,
which is pretty exciting also.
So we'll see what comes of that.
That I think is gonna be the summer project, right?
Eric Makelky: Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't think it's gonna happen in May.
So maybe, maybe we can start that in June.
Jethro Jones: Yeah.
So, alright, so last time we talked about, uh, relationships with parents.
Any follow up that you want to chat with about from that?
Eric Makelky: No, it was a, it was a fun episode though.
I wish, I wish I would've, would've brought the topic up sooner.
Um, but there'll be more opportunities down the road to use, use some of
the things that we talked about as far as framing the conversation.
I.
So I haven't had any real contentious ones as of late, but
Jethro Jones: that's always good.
I like that.
Eric Makelky: yeah.
Yeah, I was thinking, um, you know, for a topic this week, you and I
had had mentioned a little bit.
You've been focused on helping me and the kind of the theme of the
Transformative Principal podcast episodes I've done is helping new principals.
But how about the topic of, um, new teachers as we finish up the hiring
season and think about what we need to have in place to help new, new
teachers be successful in the fall.
Jethro Jones: Yeah, I, I think that that's a great idea, um, and
definitely a good topic to talk about.
Uh, so first of all, let's look back at your experiences as a principal, both
here and in your previous district.
Um, What are some of the things that you have done that you feel like have
been successful in helping new teachers, uh, enculturate into your school?
Eric Makelky: Um,
I think every district does kind of the standard, you know, the business
office and the paperwork and uh, payroll and benefits and how all the
programs and login information works.
So let's just skip that cuz I think that's, I mean, I guess that's important,
but it's not what makes people stick around and that's what I'm interested in.
Um, I think having,
The, the best thing that I've had in place, or that I've been a part
of with new staff is we had a thing called the New Teacher Academy,
where we had in-house, um, teachers come in and model and showcase and
share practices from their classroom.
So we would just take like our instructional framework, what we say
is good teaching and learning in our district, and then we would bring in, uh,
A current teacher, a returning teacher, which it was a nice perk to them, right?
Because you get to come kind of be the model of, you know, routines and
procedures or, um, some other strategy, and we would pay 'em, you know, a little
extra for coming in and doing that.
But I, I think that was a great system because it helped new teachers see,
not just read a list of what we.
Want to see in classrooms.
And then having the in-house people lead it gave them connections in the
district if they needed things or had questions, they knew, Hey, I can go
watch that teacher do this, or email that teacher and, and share some resources.
So I think that was pretty successful.
Um, we worked on this a lot.
In my last district, and one thing that seemed silly, but we started
doing that, made a huge difference is like day one with new teachers.
First thing in the morning, we thought about like, what
do they really wanna know?
It's not payroll and defensive driving classes online, and it's
not instructional strategies.
It's like, where's the printer?
Where's my room?
Where's the coffee machine?
And we, we literally did like a half day around the building, the library,
what doors kids come in and out of where staff park like a, just a real
basic like, welcome to the building.
And they really appreciated that cuz I think once you answered those things
and they knew where they were, they could focus more on the other stuff.
Jethro Jones: Yeah, that, that does seem like silly to think that you
need to get that granular about like what door do kids come in.
But those are things that people don't know and they take for
granted once they do know.
So the question to ask then is, Is that, is that a worthwhile use of your
time when you have limited time with them, and is there a better way that
you could get that information to them?
What are your thoughts on that?
Eric Makelky: Yeah, it's definitely not the best use of, like, if you only have
one day with new teachers, you wouldn't wanna spend a half day doing that.
But I guess if nothing else, you could kind of make a list.
And then as teachers trickled in, in the summer to get their keys,
most of them aren't gonna wait till that first day of contract time.
Um, you could take 'em on a quick little tour and share a list with them of where
things are and you know, who do I go to if I need more paper or we need more of this.
Jethro Jones: I, I think that taking that, that time that you
have is valuable and how do you make it as valuable as possible?
Because those things also like the payroll and the login and how to
access the tools, that's not what is gonna make people stick around.
And that's really what you're trying to get at here is how do we make it
so that people feel a connection to the school and to the people here
and want to stick around so that.
They're not just gonna take whatever other job comes along,
but they're gonna feel like they're actually part of the community.
Right?
Eric Makelky: what do they really need to be ready for the first day of school?
Because you have to prioritize all the stuff that everybody
wants to cover with new teachers.
Right?
Jethro Jones: Yeah.
Eric Makelky: That's a hard one cuz I think everybody who's
involved thinks that, you know, they need this before day one.
But if you really think about like what do they need?
To be ready for day one.
Resources, curriculum.
Um, kind of a, a plan like if they're a brand new teacher, maybe a, some
classroom management Harry Wong stuff to set up routines and procedures.
Cause I've learned you can't just assume they know how to do that.
Jethro Jones: Yeah.
Yep.
So I, I think that what you're getting at here is that truly every
person's gonna need their own.
Thing.
But if we can focus it down to what the specific things are that
people, that everybody needs, then we'll be in good shape.
So as I'm, I'm hearing you talk, I'm hearing something that you're
not specifically saying, and I might be putting words in your mouth
because this is my own bias, but let me know if this is true or not.
Um, the first day of school, you want to be successful.
But it's not the last day of school.
You want them to come back multiple days.
Right.
For the whole year.
Eric Makelky: not just the first contract
Jethro Jones: that's right.
And so you, you want them to have success and to feel like
it's going to be successful.
Um, and do you want to give them like, just enough that they feel that, but
not so much that they're overwhelmed?
This is a hard balance and what that keeps coming back to me is, If they
really understand the vision of what you're trying to do in your school, then
they're probably going to be able to find success if they get what the vision is.
Is that too simplistic?
Do you think that that's like too basic and they need more than that?
And please be honest.
Don't, don't tell 'em
Eric Makelky: I, I think that's the big picture and all the other things that I've
been listing are the small pieces of that.
But here's my question to you.
How, how do you do that?
Let's say you have one day with new teachers outside of
everybody else's contract time.
How, how do you help them understand what the vision is and feel connected
to that and understand their role, and feel supported and feel ready
with the stuff they're gonna need?
Jethro Jones: Yeah.
I think that's a, that is to me the real question because if you, if you just
talk about vision and don't talk about any of the, the specifics, the brass
tacks, the, the, the things they need to really be doing, then they're gonna
think that you're not helpful at all.
If you only spend time on the, on the practical aspects of it, then they're
gonna wonder what all this is for.
Is this just another school?
And some of them will be totally fine with that, but that doesn't
necessarily mean that everybody will.
And so I think it's, it's about finding a balance between those things.
So I, I have some ideas about that, um, that, that I'll share here.
But I think that this is something that like, that everybody who's listening
to this, you really need to take time and think about what it is that people
actually need and not what you think.
They need because there is a difference.
For example, this is a, a tale as old as time, but it did actually happen to me.
My, my, I got hired like a week and a half before school started, and, um, and so I
could not attend all of the, the pre um, the pre-service, the training and stuff
before school started because I, I was
Eric Makelky: you're talking as a teacher, right?
Jethro Jones: As a teacher, yes, as a teacher.
Um, and so I, I couldn't attend everything because I was working another job and
just got a job and so I had to take, you know, that little transition time.
So what basically happened is I went in there at the end of one
day and uh, the principal walked me in and said, there are your books.
Your mentor is in this classroom, and good luck.
I gotta go do something else.
And like, That that happens way more often than any of us would like to
advance, so we need to be more intentional than that Now, I actually thrived in
that situation because I didn't want anybody to tell me anything to do.
I wanted to be able to figure it out for myself.
So I had questions and I needed help, and I was not as good a teacher as I
thought I was, but, Uh, as much as I hated all those trainings in following
years and what a waste of time they were for me, I was very grateful
to not be burdened by any of that.
Uh, my first, my first year.
So, uh, so I didn't really have any guidance on this, and I don't remember
my first day of school at all.
The first day that I taught, I.
I just remember going home in my calves aching incredibly from, uh, walking
around the entire day on, on concrete.
So that's, that's my first experience.
I don't think that, uh, that that's good, but I think a lot of people
experience something like that.
So the first thing I wanna share is, um, is a Trello board, and I'll put a
link to this in the, in the show notes.
Have I shared this Trello board with you before?
Eric Makelky: I don't think so.
Jethro Jones: about onboarding.
So when I was in Kodiak, um, uh, Damon Hargraves and I, uh, worked
on this to make it for our teachers.
Moving to Kodiak, Alaska was a big deal, and it was difficult
for people to get there.
So we needed people to understand so many things about working
in Kodiak that they couldn't.
That they couldn't understand without us providing a lot.
So one of the things that we did is we did a series of emails to them and, uh, I'm
showing Eric this Trello board right now, and you, if you click the link in the show
notes at Transformative Principal dot org, you can look at this same thing and you
can walk through it with us if you want.
So what we did is we, we had a series of 10 emails going out to them.
That would explain all these different things about our school
and where they were gonna live.
And we had a couple of things that were important.
Number one, we wanted them to know about Kodiak itself and how it, how
it worked, what kinds of things they could understand, how they would
get there, all that kind of stuff.
So in each letter we sent, we would have.
Uh, something about life and something about work.
And so we gave them these emails as a way for them to understand
like what was really going on.
So, so the, the first emails title is, yay, I'm part of Kodiak Middle School.
Now what?
And then we would say, here's, here's all this stuff.
And, oh, mine and Damon's cell phone numbers are in there.
Might want to adjust that.
I'll, I'll do that.
Um, but anyway, there's links to our social media, there's links to the,
the staff workday, things that happen, enrollment, all that kind of stuff so the
people could, could know what's going on.
So we would send that and then after that we would talk about finding
housing and then getting specific gear.
Being a responsive educator, cuz that was important to us, our
continuous improvement model, standards based instruction.
P b i s trauma and more.
And then it would, the next email, eight would be tools of the trade,
how we get work done in Kodiak.
Uh, email nine was the schedule.
And then, uh, email 10 was, uh, planning your first year rollercoaster.
And, and so each of those emails were, were designed to give them information
and help them see what they could expect.
So as a, as a starting point, I would say if you don't have a set of
onboarding emails for new staff members, uh, it would be very wise to do that.
And then we put them in MailChimp and we sent them out automatically.
So when somebody got hired, we added them to this campaign and it sent
all 10 emails out automatically.
We set it and forget it.
We never had to worry about that again.
So that's, that's one way.
Take advantage of the fact that you hired them early enough
that they can get these emails.
Here's the thing, if we hired someone, the week before school started like
happened with me, we still sent these emails that are out every week
to them going into the school year.
So really if you got hired the week before, by the end of quarter one,
you would've finally gotten all of the emails and most of them at
that point, you would probably have already figured that stuff out.
But it was really valuable for us to have a resource for people.
To, to experience and, and learn about what we were doing.
Eric Makelky: Yeah.
That's great.
They didn't send you all 10 that day you signed.
Jethro Jones: No,
no.
That, that might be a little overwhelming.
Eric Makelky: Yeah.
Well, and that, that's one thing that I know I've been guilty of is when you're
working with new hires, overwhelming 'em.
Jethro Jones: yeah.
Eric Makelky: And you know, thinking back to when I've been new, like
how much of that stuff that you go through in a meeting at the start
of the year, are you gonna remember?
I know.
I'll, I'll end up calling people and asking for help, even though
they showed me how to do it because
Jethro Jones: Yep.
Eric Makelky: you, you just won't retain every single thing you read
in the staff handbook and every app and list of everything, so,
Jethro Jones: Yep.
Uh, you won't.
That is true.
And so, uh, you want to make sure that you.
Uh, don't expect that to happen.
So, so I mean, it, it's, it's easy to, to start out thinking like,
oh yeah, they really need this.
When the reality is, is they don't actually need all of that.
So we probably put too much information in there, but because it was dripped
out over a course of 10 weeks and, uh, we knew that they wanted information.
That was a pretty easy way to get that information out.
That was manageable for us, and, and that's what really I, that's what I think
really matters is figuring out a way to make it manageable for everybody and still
get the information out that you need to.
Eric Makelky: Yeah, and even if they already have answers, it's good to have
that in there cuz some people will, it will be relevant and if not, they can just
skip, skip to the relevant parts of those.
Jethro Jones: Yep.
And here's, here's the other thing, because we knew what was in those emails,
we could refer them back to it or find it in the email and then resend it
out to 'em so that they would have it.
And then we were giving the same information to everybody and we, we
weren't wasting time repeating things or retyping answers that we already had.
So you saw on that troll board, I could just go in and copy the text
and then paste it and send it to 'em, and, and that was really easy.
You can also share something like that.
This, uh, this is messy intentionally because that's how we, we set it up
and, um, And in our brainstorm working through it, we created all these cards
and then moved them to the appropriate things, including putting pictures
and images in there and everything.
And it was, it was worthwhile and valuable to set it up that way.
Um, and it was not, it was not as hard as it seemed at first, nor was
it as hard as it seems right now.
Looking back on it, I'm like, oh my gosh, that looks like a lot of work.
But in reality, it really.
It really wasn't that difficult.
It was all the stuff that was in my mind that I just needed to get out.
Eric Makelky: Mm-hmm.
Can you, can you share that board with me if you haven't already?
Jethro Jones: Yes.
Yep.
I will, I'll send, send you a link to it so you got it.
Eric Makelky: And you're saying, I can't leave your cell phone in there.
If they have questions,
Jethro Jones: Uh, I actually, I put my, my eight oh one seven Jethro cell
phone in there instead of my other one.
So, so they, they certainly can, if they want to.
Eric Makelky: you're gonna put this live on the web and you're
gonna be getting teacher, teacher calls from all over the country.
Hey, I heard you're the guy to talk to about if I'm new in Arkansas or Wyoming,
Jethro Jones: That's right.
Yep.
I will, I will help you out and yeah, uh, since my phone number is eight oh one
seven Jethro, that's my public number.
Uh, and that does go to my cell phone, but it's, it's kind of fun to, to have that so
people, people can access that for sure.
And please, yeah, email me, call me, text me.
I'd be happy to chat with you more about it.
the other thing that I would say about this is that if you have a clear vision,
so for example, what I, after doing this in Kodiak, I went to Tana in, in
Fairbanks, and I was so clear on what my vision was that I made it, it was so easy
to talk to about people because my vision was we, we do personalized learning for
students, which means that every student.
Their learning is personalized to them rather than to a whole class.
So my, my, my coaching to all new teachers was, you need to get to know your
students the first two weeks of class.
Nothing else matters, so don't, don't worry about any curriculum type stuff.
You just get to know your students.
And then we also did things to set.
The whole school up for getting to know their students by doing different things
the first three days of school as well.
So we didn't, like, kids, didn't even get their schedule till the second or third
day of school, and that was by design so that they would get to know each other,
their teachers and other people at school before they worried about what their
classes were and who their teachers were.
So that ideally, hopefully, They've got connections and relationships
with people in their classes before they even know who those people are.
So that was, that was another thing that we did.
We set up our school to be focused on providing support for everybody who is
new, not just for the teachers, so that students understood what our vision
was and what we were trying to do.
And so the teachers understood it as well.
And then new teachers could kind of like relax those first couple days.
Because they're still not quite ready and so we gave them a little bit more
time to To figure some things out.
Eric Makelky: Can I ask you about mentoring with new teachers?
Jethro Jones: Yeah.
Eric Makelky: I've, I've seen mentor systems that I think are overdone,
like over formalized and you know, every other week meeting and doing book
studies with your mentor and paying your veteran teachers a stipend to
do all these hours with new teachers.
And I don't think that has been real effective cuz you're kind of trying
to force a mentor mentee relationship, but especially high schools.
Um, Where teachers a lot of times are singletons and kind of just in, in a cave.
It's, it's hard to have a, like a natural way for new teachers
to make that connection and have like a go-to colleague.
So we're, we're, we're kind of ramping up some collaborative teams with our PLC
work that I think is gonna help where they have a regular, um, Like weekly,
at least collaborative team they can meet with, to share ideas and resources
and help overcome some challenges.
But what, what have you found effective with mentorship programs?
Not over formalized, but not just kind of hoping they find a connection.
Jethro Jones: Yeah.
So there need to be, there need to be structures in place that give them a
person to go to, but there shouldn't be.
Uh, like requirements and things that force those things to happen.
So what you ultimately want, and, and our problem in education is that we
think that everything has to be the same for everybody, and it just doesn't.
So we really should be personalizing the onboarding and the mentorship
for each person individually.
And that means that some things need to be really focused and structured.
Number one, everyone should have a mentor that they can go to, and
that that person doesn't get to say.
I'm too busy to help you right now.
Like my door is always open for you because I am your mentor.
If that means we need to pay them them some money or do something else to
make it worth their while, give them an extra prep period, I don't know.
But they've got to know, this is the person I can go to for, for some support.
That's gotta be absolutely there.
And they need to know who that person is and they have to be
comfortable with that person.
So you may have to find a different person if they're not comfortable, but.
W I believe that finding that mentor is one of the most essential things
you can do after you hire someone.
Because if they, if they one, get taught in a poor way of what things are about,
then bad ideas are going to perpetuate.
So, uh, one of the things that, that one of my mentors told me, I had two
different mentors cause I went to two different schools, um, was that,
I shouldn't smile until Christmas, which I think is just terrible advice.
And yes, you should smile all year long and you should
be happy and enjoy your job.
But by by her saying that I learned that that's what she valued and what was
important to her, and anything that I tried to do that was outside of that or
that didn't follow, that she would go back to that and say, oh, well you shouldn't
be smiling until Christmas anyway.
And, you know, some other things happened where people said you shouldn't.
Uh, and I heard this from teachers that, that were new in my schools, that you
shouldn't say anything to disagree with the principal until you have tenure.
Um, which then creates a habit over three to five years, however
long tenure is in your district.
And then you never say that you disagree and you, uh, just take the role of being
a good soldier, which isn't good either.
And so, You know, you need to really be intentional about who you choose
as a mentor and make sure that it's a good fit for that person
and a good fit for your school.
Also, you don't want to choose a mentor who is badmouthing, complaining,
talking bad about people all the time.
And sometimes those people get chosen as mentors because they're
good at other parts of the job.
But we're talking about culture here, and those things are culture killers.
To be sure.
So be really tight on that.
Have a great mentor for that person.
The other thing that you need to be really tight on is that the mentoring happens
according to what the mentee needs, not according to what the mentor needs.
So if, if the mentee needs to go have coffee in the morning, then.
That's the plan.
That's what you do to make that happen.
If they need to stay after school and have, uh, a mentor
meeting, then that's what you do.
And you can't say that everybody needs mentoring in the exact same way.
So, uh, solid mentor happening as the mentee needs, even if they don't
necessarily want it, but as they need, the mentoring happens with them.
And then the third piece that I think is just super important is that you
understand that mentoring is not just about pedagogical strategies,
that it is about mentoring the culture of the school as well.
And if you take those three things and focus on those three things, I think
that you're gonna find success and the rest of it can figure itself out.
What are your thoughts on that?
Eric Makelky: I like that.
I think a lot of times when we set up mentors, it's like, well,
who else is in that department?
You know, put a new math teacher with the other math teacher
and that's the only option.
And really that's part of why it becomes pedagogy instead of
everything else that the mentee needs.
Um,
So I like that just feeling like, you know, you can get outside
the box when you're trying to find the right person to mentor.
Jethro Jones: Yeah.
Eric Makelky: Um, I had heard some really interesting ideas.
I don't know.
We were at a, a training a couple weeks ago and they mentioned inviting in,
um, your retired teacher population and doing like lunch with new teachers.
Or coffee with new teachers.
And I thought that was, uh, like a, a unique way to like,
help 'em build a connection.
I don't know how much, you know, they definitely wouldn't be doing pedagogy,
Jethro Jones: Yeah.
Eric Makelky: but, or technology or anything like that.
But, um, we have a lot of retired teachers here that don't
want to come back and sub or.
Don't wanna, you know, work regularly, but that might be something that we
said, Hey, you know, come in once a week if you can on a, a lunch period.
And they had mentioned the importance of making sure new teachers
have someone to eat lunch with,
Jethro Jones: Mm-hmm.
Eric Makelky: just like teachers lounge, which we all know can be a
bad place sometimes to eat lunch.
Um,
Jethro Jones: I got funny stories about that.
Oh boy.
We, we go on for a while, but we won't today.
But ask me in person about a good teacher's lounge story.
Uh, the, the thing that I like about bringing in retired folks is that
they have experience and hindsight.
And they're done.
So they don't really have a dog in the fight anymore.
And so I think that if that person is, is a good person to be a mentor,
you know, going back to the things that we already talked about, um, then
that can be a really powerful thing.
If, if they were somebody who was just dying to get out and and hated their last
five years, you don't want that to happen.
But if there's somebody who was like, Energized and engaged.
You know, uh, for example, Kathy Krutz, I, I can't help but bring her up.
Every time I think about a teacher retiring, she was ready to
retire and she was a third grade teacher at a Title one school.
She'd put in her years, she had done a great job, and she said, uh, instead
of retiring, she said she wanted to come back one more year and try the new
curriculum that we were adopting and.
I was like, are you serious?
Like you could leave and not learn something brand New year last year.
And she's like, no, I just wanted to like, see what it was gonna look like.
I, I was part of the implementation adoption process and I wanted
to see how it all worked out.
And so she did one more year and man, she was the best I would.
Had I thought of that idea of bringing her back, I would've brought her back in a
heartbeat because she was so positive and understood the work so well and like went
out on a high note, even though that year was probably her hardest year ever and
she had a lot of really challenging kids, but she was, she was great and didn't
regret sticking around another year and.
That's the kind of person that you want to have, be a mentor.
And uh, I don't know what she did after that year, but uh, I know she retired,
but while she was retired, I don't know if she stuck with the schools
or did anything, but she was amazing.
And that's the kind of person you wanna find for sure.
Eric Makelky: Yeah, and I would think a lot of the like career
teachers that retire, they miss.
You know, one of the best parts of this job is like the camaraderie with the staff
and feeling a part of, of the school.
And if they don't wanna sub or they don't wanna like do some formal thing,
it's a great way for them to still feel connected with what's going on at
the school and who the new people are.
You know, cuz as you retire you kinda, pretty soon it's like, oh, I
don't even know half the staff there.
I don't know the administrators.
So I thought that was a, a great idea.
Jethro Jones: Yeah.
I like that.
Very cool.
Anything else before we wrap up?
Good timing.
I think we froze.
We'll just cut that out.
Are we back?
And here we go.
All right.
We back.
Eric Makelky: Yeah, you were frozen.
Jethro Jones: Yeah, it happens.
All right.
Uh, anything else you want to add before we sign off?
Eric Makelky: No, I was just saying I got a lot of work to do.
Jethro Jones: Yeah,
Eric Makelky: So, no, no new topics for a couple weeks, although this will
be our last one of the school year.
Jethro Jones: that's right.
Yep.
Eric Makelky: So principal coaching in June and July would
be, um, fishing technique.
So if you want to do those, maybe we'll put 'em on a different podcast.
Jethro Jones: I like it.
That sounds pretty good.
All right.
Thanks Eric.
Have a
Eric Makelky: Thanks.
You too.
See you Jethro.
Jethro Jones: I.