WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:30.140 --> 00:00:31.610 Victoria: Hi, this is Victoria Meyer. 00:00:31.680 --> 00:00:34.920 Welcome back to the Chemical Show where Chemicals Means Business. 00:00:35.340 --> 00:00:40.900 Today I am sharing with you Five Key Themes for 2025 for 00:00:40.910 --> 00:00:43.039 Household and Commercial Products. 00:00:43.090 --> 00:00:44.590 So what is this all about? 00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:47.140 This is a highlight and compilation episode. 00:00:47.530 --> 00:00:51.580 I recently returned from the HCPA annual meeting in Fort Lauderdale. 00:00:51.769 --> 00:00:52.250 First of all. 00:00:52.465 --> 00:00:54.315 What is HCPA and why should I care? 00:00:54.635 --> 00:00:58.615 So the HCPA is the Household and Commercial Products Association. 00:00:59.055 --> 00:01:05.875 It represents 180 billion in products that are used for cleaning, protecting, 00:01:05.875 --> 00:01:09.264 maintaining and disinfecting our homes and our commercial 00:01:09.264 --> 00:01:13.554 environments, whether they're offices, stores, hospitals, et cetera. 00:01:14.244 --> 00:01:20.854 At home, these are many of the products that you have under your sink, in your 00:01:20.854 --> 00:01:22.744 cleaning closet, whatever you've got. 00:01:23.074 --> 00:01:27.344 Um, so cleaning products, antimicrobials, pest control, and more. 00:01:27.674 --> 00:01:32.194 So what I thought was really interesting about this is, it's not just about 00:01:32.214 --> 00:01:35.004 the, well, it is a lot about the finished products themselves, but 00:01:35.004 --> 00:01:38.234 there's also the chemicals and the other ingredients that are part of this. 00:01:38.284 --> 00:01:42.554 If you are a fan of how stuff is made and there's a few different shows on that, 00:01:42.555 --> 00:01:45.894 then HCPA is a fascinating place for you. 00:01:46.274 --> 00:01:50.945 I've actually doing something unique this time in that, I've recorded a 00:01:50.945 --> 00:01:56.175 bunch of individual interviews with HCPA staff and some of their board members. 00:01:56.805 --> 00:02:01.394 Those interviews are available on the Chemical Show's YouTube channel. 00:02:01.795 --> 00:02:05.005 Um, yes, if you didn't know this, it is a podcast and yes, 00:02:05.005 --> 00:02:05.975 we have a YouTube channel. 00:02:06.175 --> 00:02:10.095 YouTube is actually one of the biggest podcasting, outlets today. 00:02:10.095 --> 00:02:11.125 It's a growing place. 00:02:11.415 --> 00:02:19.705 Um, so go check those interviews out at youtube.com/thechemicalshowpodcast. 00:02:19.955 --> 00:02:22.855 And if you just search for The Chemical Show podcast, you're going to find 00:02:22.855 --> 00:02:26.185 it, but you can also direct link there and we will make sure there's a direct 00:02:26.185 --> 00:02:28.705 link for you in your show notes. 00:02:28.725 --> 00:02:31.135 And once you get there, number one, subscribe. 00:02:31.415 --> 00:02:34.645 If you're not already subscribing to The Chemical Show on YouTube, you definitely 00:02:34.645 --> 00:02:38.045 should do that because there's some great content that will out for you on a 00:02:38.045 --> 00:02:39.835 regular basis, not just what we publish. 00:02:40.300 --> 00:02:44.000 On our audio podcast, but also some, special stuff, just like 00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:45.510 we're doing this week with HCPA. 00:02:45.920 --> 00:02:49.420 Um, and also when you go out there, you're going to want to check out some 00:02:49.430 --> 00:02:53.240 of the HCPA leaders, including Steve Caldeira, who is the president and 00:02:53.240 --> 00:02:59.090 CEO of HCPA, Steve Bennett, Nicholas Georges, Molly Blessing, and Mike Gruber. 00:02:59.090 --> 00:03:01.970 So a lot of great conversations that I'm sharing. 00:03:02.225 --> 00:03:03.275 especially for you. 00:03:04.315 --> 00:03:04.935 So here we go. 00:03:04.945 --> 00:03:05.805 Five themes. 00:03:06.125 --> 00:03:10.855 And these are themes I picked up both from the staff members, but also from 00:03:11.415 --> 00:03:15.935 the attendees and member companies during sessions and during breaks, right? 00:03:15.935 --> 00:03:19.485 So there's a lot of things that are really relevant to you 00:03:19.485 --> 00:03:21.265 both as an individual consumer. 00:03:21.525 --> 00:03:26.525 I found personally fascinating some of these aspects as well as business leaders. 00:03:26.855 --> 00:03:31.625 Overarching all of this, and I think is so critical, just kind of an 00:03:31.675 --> 00:03:40.385 overarching theme for HCPA itself is around safety, efficacy, um, appropriate 00:03:40.385 --> 00:03:44.775 use and transparency, both of the products and of the regulations, right? 00:03:44.845 --> 00:03:49.715 So that, those are some themes that are just so critical to the products that 00:03:49.715 --> 00:03:53.805 we have in our homes and businesses, and really are critical to making, to 00:03:53.805 --> 00:03:57.130 ensuring that they're feasable That we're actually able to produce and 00:03:57.130 --> 00:04:00.540 sell and buy and distribute and what have you as well as the safe usage. 00:04:00.550 --> 00:04:04.110 So that is one of those themes that maybe it was an overarching theme and 00:04:04.140 --> 00:04:06.790 underpinning theme, certainly throughout. 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:09.460 Um, and in fact it's not actually one of my five themes. 00:04:09.710 --> 00:04:11.190 So my five themes. 00:04:11.260 --> 00:04:11.640 numbers. 00:04:11.640 --> 00:04:14.330 Number one, Effective Federal. 00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:20.630 EPA, Regulations and appropriate EPA Appropriations funding, right? 00:04:20.630 --> 00:04:26.670 Why without funds, the EPA is understaffed. 00:04:27.220 --> 00:04:28.950 We know that we've seen this. 00:04:28.980 --> 00:04:31.670 In fact, we've seen this quite a lot over the past few years, right? 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:33.300 Slow approvals for new products. 00:04:33.770 --> 00:04:36.680 Especially when we think about all the sustainable products that we are 00:04:36.680 --> 00:04:38.900 trying to deliver to our customers. 00:04:39.180 --> 00:04:41.830 So, um, a more effective EPA. 00:04:42.950 --> 00:04:45.820 It actually ends up being better for the industry, right? 00:04:45.820 --> 00:04:49.850 So a lot of companies are relying on EPA Safer Choice for transparency. 00:04:50.020 --> 00:04:52.710 Consumers rely on EPA Safer Choice. 00:04:53.170 --> 00:04:57.320 Um, we talked about things like PRIA, which is the Pesticide Registration 00:04:57.320 --> 00:04:59.960 Improvement Act, something that has to get done every four or five 00:04:59.960 --> 00:05:02.660 years, um, as well as TSCA reform. 00:05:02.750 --> 00:05:05.070 In fact, so I'm going to share a couple of clips here. 00:05:05.070 --> 00:05:08.735 So The first is from Steve Caldeira, who is the president and CEO, and 00:05:08.735 --> 00:05:13.185 he talks about some of the key themes for HCPA as it goes forward, 00:05:13.275 --> 00:05:15.795 which include PRIA and TSCA reform. 00:05:16.275 --> 00:05:17.515 what are your priorities today? 00:05:18.125 --> 00:05:21.725 Steve Calderia: Well, um, certainly TSCA reform. 00:05:22.200 --> 00:05:27.520 As passed in 2016, President Obama signed that in June of 2016. 00:05:27.950 --> 00:05:33.480 Um, certainly the Pesticide Registration Improvement Act, is only authorized 00:05:33.510 --> 00:05:39.540 for 5 years, so it's, uh, we're working on PREA 6, um, and increasingly, 00:05:39.590 --> 00:05:41.280 issues have moved to the state. 00:05:41.760 --> 00:05:48.290 EPR, Extended Producer Responsibility, and including household hazardous waste. 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:53.430 So we're trying to deal with these increasing issues, our recycling, 00:05:53.820 --> 00:06:00.340 microplastics, air quality, uh, et cetera, and, the states are increasing, um, 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:07.030 California, Oregon, Mass, Connecticut, uh, Washington State, um, and the like, so. 00:06:07.305 --> 00:06:09.965 Victoria: Yeah, there's a lot, and there's a lot of activity going on. 00:06:10.215 --> 00:06:13.285 And what strikes me about some of this is, uh, you know, all the 00:06:13.285 --> 00:06:14.535 topics that you've talked about. 00:06:14.535 --> 00:06:17.825 I think they're not just in the industry discussion. 00:06:17.825 --> 00:06:20.005 They're also out in the general public, right? 00:06:20.335 --> 00:06:24.505 Um, and many of these products touch individuals and consumers, right? 00:06:24.505 --> 00:06:27.775 They're in our homes, they're in our offices, they're in our buildings. 00:06:27.825 --> 00:06:34.730 So how do you, you know, is, how do you guys navigate maybe, Not just across 00:06:34.730 --> 00:06:38.960 the industry and administration, but as you think about consumers, where 00:06:38.960 --> 00:06:40.770 does the consumer influence come in? 00:06:40.925 --> 00:06:41.655 Steve Calderia: come in? 00:06:41.655 --> 00:06:47.530 Well, um, like I said, we, collaborate with unique stakeholders, 00:06:47.950 --> 00:06:50.880 including industry, NGOs. 00:06:51.030 --> 00:06:57.150 Um, we just don't say no to a, regulation or proposed legislation. 00:06:57.450 --> 00:07:02.100 And we do it on behalf of our member companies so they can provide 00:07:02.140 --> 00:07:07.530 innovative More sustainable, cleaner, greener products to our, consumers. 00:07:07.585 --> 00:07:10.595 Victoria: And then the second clip I'm going to share with you is my conversation 00:07:10.595 --> 00:07:14.995 with Steve Bennett, who is the EVP of Scientific and Regulatory Affairs. 00:07:15.395 --> 00:07:18.245 And, and the question I asked Steve was. 00:07:19.030 --> 00:07:20.970 Aren't we done with TSCA reform? 00:07:20.970 --> 00:07:22.480 Hasn't it been reformed already? 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:24.970 And the answer to that is yes and no. 00:07:25.190 --> 00:07:28.580 One of the things we've been talking about a little bit is TSCA. 00:07:28.875 --> 00:07:32.225 And, uh, you're going to have to give us the definition of TSCA because I 00:07:32.225 --> 00:07:35.755 can never get that definition right or what the acronym stands for. 00:07:36.045 --> 00:07:38.775 But I honestly thought TSCA was done. 00:07:38.815 --> 00:07:43.625 I thought we agreed on TSCA and yet I'm really learning that's not the case. 00:07:43.635 --> 00:07:48.155 So can you talk about, first of all, what does TSCA stand for? 00:07:48.425 --> 00:07:53.805 And secondly, what are we trying to accomplish with TSCA today? 00:07:53.805 --> 00:07:56.865 Steve Bennett: TSCA, or the Toxic Substances Control Act, 00:07:57.065 --> 00:07:59.165 originally passed in 1976. 00:07:59.185 --> 00:08:01.255 I'm not going to say where I was at that point in 00:08:01.638 --> 00:08:02.576 Victoria: point in 00:08:02.705 --> 00:08:05.324 Steve Bennett: was reformed in 2016. 00:08:05.325 --> 00:08:10.575 That point in time was a, the industry and the environmental community came 00:08:10.575 --> 00:08:13.295 together to address needs in TSCA. 00:08:13.315 --> 00:08:16.145 Because, you know, a 40 year old regulation had never been updated. 00:08:16.415 --> 00:08:20.110 It needed some It needed some fine tuning, a lot of fine tuning. 00:08:20.110 --> 00:08:23.870 One of the biggest drivers at that point in time, um, was 00:08:23.870 --> 00:08:25.910 restoring confidence in the EPA. 00:08:26.620 --> 00:08:30.640 When there's a lack of confidence in the EPA, other stakeholders, being 00:08:30.640 --> 00:08:37.290 states, um, primarily states are going to help step in to address that lack of 00:08:37.673 --> 00:08:38.119 Victoria: confidence. 00:08:38.120 --> 00:08:41.030 And we certainly heard a lot about that as well in, 00:08:41.090 --> 00:08:44.550 Steve Bennett: and, you know, I like you know frankly in the intervening years 00:08:44.560 --> 00:08:50.005 since 2016 I was very EPA has not been able to, fully restore that confidence. 00:08:50.325 --> 00:08:55.375 Certainly there's periods of time when the NGO community has not been happy 00:08:55.575 --> 00:08:59.115 about where the EPA's direction and there's certainly times, clearly now 00:08:59.115 --> 00:09:02.965 where industry is not happy with the EPA and, that's made it particularly 00:09:02.975 --> 00:09:07.005 challenging for industry, you know, to get what, get done what they need to do. 00:09:07.325 --> 00:09:10.925 Victoria: and I certainly hear a lot from companies I talk to is they're introducing 00:09:10.925 --> 00:09:13.555 new products that it's just difficult. 00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:18.970 To get a new product introduced, even though we apparently really 00:09:18.970 --> 00:09:20.380 want some of these products. 00:09:21.070 --> 00:09:21.880 Can you talk more about 00:09:21.950 --> 00:09:22.339 Steve Bennett: that? 00:09:22.339 --> 00:09:27.335 Yeah, so if you have a product in the marketplace and you want to replace an 00:09:27.335 --> 00:09:31.915 ingredient or completely reformulate your product, you're going to have to have 00:09:31.915 --> 00:09:36.905 a new ingredient in some way, shape or form a more sustainable, more durable, 00:09:37.235 --> 00:09:41.545 new product qualities, you know, some way, shape or form, you want to have that 00:09:41.545 --> 00:09:45.475 newer chemistry and to get that newer chemistry that has to be approved by EPA. 00:09:46.065 --> 00:09:49.345 And that's been by far one of the biggest challenges getting that 00:09:49.345 --> 00:09:52.475 approved in a reasonable amount of time and in a manner that you could 00:09:52.485 --> 00:09:56.005 be able to market it in the market and sell that product in the marketplace. 00:09:56.275 --> 00:10:00.525 And at the same time, you're also running the challenges with The 00:10:00.525 --> 00:10:04.185 current chemistry that is out there, that has a distinct advantage. 00:10:04.445 --> 00:10:06.465 Um, you know, it's already in the marketplace, so you've 00:10:06.465 --> 00:10:07.855 got to compete against that. 00:10:08.435 --> 00:10:11.695 So that has made it challenging for companies to get those newer 00:10:11.695 --> 00:10:13.855 chemistries into the marketplace. 00:10:13.855 --> 00:10:18.625 The more sustainable, improved ingredients is 00:10:18.780 --> 00:10:20.640 Victoria: yet products are getting phased out. 00:10:20.955 --> 00:10:25.119 Steve Bennett: Yes, and you look, you know, probably saw headlines in the, you 00:10:25.119 --> 00:10:29.978 know, the New York Times and Washington Post this week on a couple chemicals 00:10:29.978 --> 00:10:34.489 that have legacy chemicals, mostly legacy chemicals that the agency is phasing out. 00:10:34.490 --> 00:10:35.960 In many cases that's appropriate. 00:10:36.390 --> 00:10:40.344 Victoria: So has TSCA been effective in helping to phase out those chemicals? 00:10:40.804 --> 00:10:41.714 Steve Bennett: Yes and no.. 00:10:41.762 --> 00:10:43.862 It's certainly trying to move the marketplace. 00:10:43.892 --> 00:10:47.212 Um, but it's been a long, it's a long process and it takes a lot 00:10:47.212 --> 00:10:51.222 of information, a lot of data, uh, to move those appropriately. 00:10:51.592 --> 00:10:55.172 But if you're going to rephase out a particular chemistry, it'd be nice 00:10:55.172 --> 00:10:58.492 if there's a replacement for that particular chemistry because many cases 00:10:58.492 --> 00:11:00.292 it's filling, filling a critical need. 00:11:00.547 --> 00:11:04.707 Victoria: The second key theme is around navigating state 00:11:04.707 --> 00:11:06.297 regulations and driving alignment. 00:11:06.307 --> 00:11:12.067 So one of the things that goes along with having an effective or ineffective 00:11:12.077 --> 00:11:14.247 federal regulatory, um, system. 00:11:14.612 --> 00:11:19.022 platform through the EPA and elsewhere is When the federal government 00:11:19.062 --> 00:11:23.022 is less effective and our federal systems are left less effective. 00:11:23.022 --> 00:11:28.592 Let's talk about the EPA it leaves the door open for the states to 00:11:28.592 --> 00:11:31.667 take action and They have, right? 00:11:31.957 --> 00:11:39.017 So this proliferation of state regulations, whether it be, um, EPR, 00:11:39.067 --> 00:11:41.667 extended producer responsibility, we're going to talk about that a 00:11:41.667 --> 00:11:46.117 little bit more, or elsewhere is it's really burdensome, right? 00:11:46.147 --> 00:11:49.667 And so certain states have, become very active with this. 00:11:49.667 --> 00:11:50.917 So not just California. 00:11:50.917 --> 00:11:54.977 And I think we think about California, uh, as I, I certainly 00:11:54.997 --> 00:11:57.777 think about California as having driven this for a long time, right? 00:11:57.827 --> 00:12:02.207 If you think about like the labels that are on your mattresses and pillows, 00:12:02.207 --> 00:12:06.647 a lot of it is driven by California regulations, but we're also seeing 00:12:06.647 --> 00:12:13.327 this with Oregon, Minnesota, Maine, other states, um, maybe jockeying 00:12:13.327 --> 00:12:15.177 for position to take the lead, right? 00:12:15.177 --> 00:12:16.427 Because as one state. 00:12:16.507 --> 00:12:21.747 It sets regulations, many others start to follow, and I'm going to bring in a clip 00:12:21.747 --> 00:12:26.407 here from Mike Gruber, who is the EVP of government relations and public policy, 00:12:26.667 --> 00:12:32.597 who talks about why this matters and why this is a priority, um, not just for HCPA, 00:12:32.617 --> 00:12:37.977 but also for its member companies, just in trying to navigate state regulations 00:12:37.987 --> 00:12:39.367 and driving alignment across that. 00:12:39.367 --> 00:12:42.087 Mike Gruber: we just want to make sure that government agencies, whether it's 00:12:42.087 --> 00:12:46.757 the federal agency or state agency, actually is functioning well and doing 00:12:46.757 --> 00:12:51.437 the job they need to do, but making sure they're doing it in a way that we can 00:12:51.437 --> 00:12:56.197 get innovations to market, and, uh, that there's a process through which 00:12:56.197 --> 00:13:00.407 we can provide formal comments and they're considered, uh, and that we have 00:13:00.407 --> 00:13:03.607 working relationships with regulators, both at the federal and state level. 00:13:03.607 --> 00:13:03.747 Well, 00:13:03.829 --> 00:13:04.149 Victoria: Got it. 00:13:04.379 --> 00:13:07.559 Well, and so I think that, that federal and state balance is interesting 00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:11.029 because it seems like, and we were talking just before we hit the record 00:13:11.029 --> 00:13:15.899 button, that that balance has shifted and it's shifted significantly in 00:13:15.899 --> 00:13:17.999 the past several years at least. 00:13:18.519 --> 00:13:19.199 Can you talk about 00:13:19.232 --> 00:13:19.572 Mike Gruber: Yeah. 00:13:19.572 --> 00:13:25.292 So when I started out, when I left Capitol Hill in 2012 to become a federal lobbyist 00:13:25.992 --> 00:13:31.577 for The Consumer Brands Association, which at that time was grocery manufacturers. 00:13:32.217 --> 00:13:34.117 My prime primary work was federal. 00:13:34.307 --> 00:13:38.177 Um, it's where we could, work on legislation that would say have a 00:13:38.177 --> 00:13:42.737 federal preemption provision to try and prevent states from, you know, going 00:13:42.737 --> 00:13:47.822 haywire and passing multiple packaging, labeling requirements that would create 00:13:47.822 --> 00:13:49.637 it, patchwork problem for the industry. 00:13:50.317 --> 00:13:56.137 Um, you know, over time, we have seen states really almost race to be the 00:13:56.137 --> 00:14:01.157 strongest regulator on ingredients, on packaging, on sustainability 00:14:01.157 --> 00:14:03.837 measures in the chemical space. 00:14:04.217 --> 00:14:09.517 So, you know, 10, 12 years ago, what was 100 percent federal for me has 00:14:09.517 --> 00:14:12.087 now become probably 85 percent state. 00:14:12.544 --> 00:14:15.704 Victoria: With this navigating state regulations, one of the big topics, 00:14:15.774 --> 00:14:19.114 um, and this is not a theme, but it just kind of ties into our state 00:14:19.114 --> 00:14:22.934 regulations piece is around EPR, extended producer responsibility. 00:14:23.214 --> 00:14:24.844 We're hearing about this a lot, right? 00:14:24.844 --> 00:14:28.504 So EPR is here and companies need to be prepared. 00:14:28.504 --> 00:14:29.964 So what is this all about? 00:14:30.449 --> 00:14:32.439 Um, and it's really about packaging. 00:14:32.469 --> 00:14:35.809 Uh, we think about it a lot of times it's plastic packaging. 00:14:36.219 --> 00:14:41.569 It also applies to aerosols and, um, and it's about putting the responsibility 00:14:41.569 --> 00:14:47.179 for end of life of these packaging materials back on the producers. 00:14:47.179 --> 00:14:51.729 It's a lot of tracking, and reporting, and navigating this. 00:14:52.019 --> 00:14:56.714 Uh, and so, You know, this is an area that, um, HCPA and its 00:14:56.734 --> 00:14:58.544 members are very focused on. 00:14:58.884 --> 00:15:03.054 In 2025, three states are requiring reporting. 00:15:03.054 --> 00:15:04.634 So this is what's critical about this. 00:15:04.634 --> 00:15:10.519 So Oregon, Colorado and California each have implemented EPR laws 00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:14.249 that are taking effect now, 2025. 00:15:14.259 --> 00:15:16.939 So if you're not ready, get ready, stay tuned. 00:15:18.349 --> 00:15:24.219 My third theme that comes out of HCPA is around sustainability and innovation. 00:15:24.559 --> 00:15:29.099 So this sustainability is really a key theme across the board. 00:15:29.099 --> 00:15:30.029 The industry, right? 00:15:30.029 --> 00:15:33.949 And so HCPA is, uh, uh, is no different there. 00:15:34.229 --> 00:15:37.059 I'm going to share a clip from Molly Blessing, who is 00:15:37.059 --> 00:15:39.189 their VP of sustainability. 00:15:39.549 --> 00:15:44.309 Um, and Molly and I talked about just the importance of lightweighting of packaging, 00:15:44.569 --> 00:15:46.619 greener and more sustainable products. 00:15:47.579 --> 00:15:50.589 The ability to have effective recycling. 00:15:50.589 --> 00:15:54.509 So if you think it kind of these things start linking together, we talked about 00:15:54.529 --> 00:15:56.949 EPR and EPR as it relates to packaging. 00:15:57.319 --> 00:16:00.819 One of the focus areas is around aerosol recycling. 00:16:00.889 --> 00:16:09.509 And Molly talks about this focus to drive, um, aerosol recycling access rate to 85%. 00:16:09.529 --> 00:16:11.039 So again, access is important. 00:16:11.449 --> 00:16:14.449 Controlling the individual is a little bit trickier, but one of the 00:16:14.479 --> 00:16:19.829 themes is really around focusing on making, uh, products and accessibility 00:16:19.829 --> 00:16:25.359 for recycling and accessibility for sustainability, um, more available 00:16:25.489 --> 00:16:28.189 and easier to engage with and take on. 00:16:28.189 --> 00:16:29.869 I'm including a clip here from Molly. 00:16:30.689 --> 00:16:32.909 Molly: We have three big picture focus areas. 00:16:33.329 --> 00:16:35.929 So I should say for us, we take a very product centric approach. 00:16:35.959 --> 00:16:38.509 We don't necessarily get into the high level corporate reporting requirements. 00:16:38.509 --> 00:16:42.089 We were focused on what product is reaching the end consumer or the end user. 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:43.539 How do we make that better? 00:16:43.539 --> 00:16:45.749 How do we make that better in a way that's tangible to them? 00:16:46.849 --> 00:16:48.339 So we have three different focus areas. 00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:49.749 One is the sustainable chemistry. 00:16:49.749 --> 00:16:51.719 So what's actually going into that product formulation? 00:16:52.299 --> 00:16:53.659 The second is the packaging. 00:16:54.074 --> 00:16:57.214 So what are we, what materials are we using to package that product? 00:16:57.294 --> 00:16:58.274 How are we doing that? 00:16:58.584 --> 00:17:01.944 Um, is it perhaps set up in a system that incentivizes reuse or refill? 00:17:01.944 --> 00:17:05.014 Is it set up in a way that reduces the weight of the packaging? 00:17:05.014 --> 00:17:08.044 Could we perhaps use more recycled content, less virgin material? 00:17:09.034 --> 00:17:11.174 Those kinds of questions are what we're asking on the packaging side. 00:17:11.174 --> 00:17:13.334 And that's been a really big focus area for us. 00:17:13.424 --> 00:17:16.524 I would say of our three, that's been the one to take it by far the most attention. 00:17:16.914 --> 00:17:18.924 Victoria: And I know that you've talked about aerosol 00:17:18.924 --> 00:17:20.404 recycling and the focus there. 00:17:20.864 --> 00:17:21.354 Molly: Exactly. 00:17:21.354 --> 00:17:21.514 Yeah. 00:17:21.514 --> 00:17:22.364 So we, we started. 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:27.099 aerosol recycling initiative with our partner, our sister trade association, 00:17:27.099 --> 00:17:29.279 the Can Manufacturers Institute, CMI. 00:17:29.709 --> 00:17:32.139 We launched that back in May of 2022. 00:17:33.139 --> 00:17:37.389 That initiative has two goals that are both quantitative and time bound. 00:17:37.719 --> 00:17:43.519 So by 2030, we're aiming to increase the aerosol recycling access rate to 85%. 00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:48.679 So that's making sure that exactly that that 85 percent of the population has 00:17:48.699 --> 00:17:50.319 access to recycle their empty aerosols. 00:17:51.734 --> 00:17:55.024 Which would be a pretty big jump from where we are right now. 00:17:55.024 --> 00:17:57.084 I mean, so the most recent numbers we had from the sustainable 00:17:57.084 --> 00:17:58.564 packaging coalition were just above 00:17:59.509 --> 00:18:01.679 Victoria: We have Which is still, that's better than I would have expected, 00:18:01.684 --> 00:18:04.174 Molly: I should say though, we recently had a revamp methodology 00:18:04.174 --> 00:18:07.474 that looked at just more specific messaging that dropped us down to 39. 00:18:07.794 --> 00:18:13.154 So there's, there's a ways to go there, but we also have some very great ideas for 00:18:13.154 --> 00:18:17.569 how to make progress, including talking to the Murphs that are, Perhaps more 00:18:17.569 --> 00:18:21.719 resistant to accepting aerosols and making sure that we're addressing the safety 00:18:21.719 --> 00:18:23.219 concerns that they have on that end. 00:18:23.219 --> 00:18:23.371 Yeah, 00:18:23.554 --> 00:18:23.764 Victoria: Yeah. 00:18:23.764 --> 00:18:27.614 Well, and then, of course, one of the big challenges, and I know that this 00:18:27.614 --> 00:18:31.834 is something that HCPA is interested and concerned about, as well as your 00:18:31.834 --> 00:18:35.714 member companies, is really extending it to the consumer, because really, 00:18:36.104 --> 00:18:41.356 even myself as an educated consumer, I get confused as to what I'm allowed 00:18:41.356 --> 00:18:44.634 to do, what I'm not allowed to do, what I can recycle, what I can't. 00:18:44.934 --> 00:18:50.604 And so I think that whole education process along, um, Through to 00:18:50.604 --> 00:18:51.924 the consumers becomes critical. 00:18:52.219 --> 00:18:55.119 Molly: that's a great segue to our actually, first of our second goal for the 00:18:55.129 --> 00:18:59.089 aerosol recycling initiative, which is to have 90 percent of aerosols labeled with 00:18:59.099 --> 00:19:03.329 information about their recyclability and also how to appropriately recycle the can 00:19:03.508 --> 00:19:07.878 Victoria: So the fourth theme that comes out of HCPA, and this to me 00:19:07.918 --> 00:19:11.448 ties to transparency and safe use. 00:19:11.788 --> 00:19:17.078 And this one is around just monitoring and systems that are getting put in place 00:19:17.088 --> 00:19:20.828 around use and the misuse of products. 00:19:20.828 --> 00:19:28.218 So the misuse of products was actually quite high as a conversational area. 00:19:28.728 --> 00:19:31.293 In particular misuse of aerosol products. 00:19:31.293 --> 00:19:35.603 So, um, there's a lot of conversation around dusters, which is like 00:19:35.603 --> 00:19:36.863 the high compressed thing. 00:19:36.863 --> 00:19:37.943 I'm looking at my computer here. 00:19:38.213 --> 00:19:40.523 You know, the aerosol cans that may be used to clean your computer 00:19:40.523 --> 00:19:42.033 keyboard and other things. 00:19:42.423 --> 00:19:46.203 Real concern about the misuse of those aerosol products that people 00:19:46.204 --> 00:19:51.913 are acquiring them, um, and huffing them is I guess the technical term. 00:19:51.923 --> 00:19:53.263 Is that a non technical term? 00:19:53.263 --> 00:19:54.273 I'm not exactly sure. 00:19:54.703 --> 00:19:56.953 Uh, it's basically to get high, right? 00:19:57.063 --> 00:19:58.223 And it's a problem, right? 00:19:58.223 --> 00:20:03.733 Because it's, as you and I both know, we spend a lot of time, effort, 00:20:03.763 --> 00:20:08.063 and resources to make sure that the products and whether they're chemical 00:20:08.063 --> 00:20:12.943 products, whether the finished goods that we create are safe and effective. 00:20:13.443 --> 00:20:15.858 For their intended use. 00:20:16.498 --> 00:20:24.348 And then you have to guard against misuse, which is a challenging area. 00:20:25.278 --> 00:20:30.238 Because how do you guard against human's creativity to, I guess, do 00:20:30.258 --> 00:20:31.208 things they're not supposed to do. 00:20:31.208 --> 00:20:36.598 So anyway, this is an area of focus, um, an area of conversation and continued 00:20:36.598 --> 00:20:39.868 focus for HCPA and its member companies. 00:20:40.468 --> 00:20:42.838 I've got a clip here from Nicholas Georges. 00:20:43.473 --> 00:20:47.263 Talking about navigating this So the other thing you touched 00:20:47.263 --> 00:20:48.613 on is this misuse of products. 00:20:48.613 --> 00:20:53.703 And I know from, uh, the conversations I had with folks yesterday, certainly 00:20:53.703 --> 00:20:57.513 in the aerosol committee, that was a big topic of discussion. 00:20:57.743 --> 00:21:02.363 And I guess in my naive world, I didn't realize it was such a big issue, but just 00:21:02.393 --> 00:21:07.078 the sheer misuse of aerosol products as people are Trying to get high, I guess. 00:21:07.418 --> 00:21:07.818 Um, 00:21:08.043 --> 00:21:08.493 Nicolas Georges: was, yeah. 00:21:09.568 --> 00:21:12.918 Victoria: what's the role of HCPA in this, right? 00:21:12.918 --> 00:21:16.198 So, I mean, we go through all the efforts trying to produce products 00:21:16.198 --> 00:21:21.038 that are effective, safe, um, understand what the uses are, et 00:21:21.038 --> 00:21:24.618 cetera, et cetera, complying to state and federal and local regulations. 00:21:25.028 --> 00:21:27.068 And then there's misuse. 00:21:27.168 --> 00:21:30.108 So, HCPA come into that? 00:21:30.138 --> 00:21:30.368 Some 00:21:30.368 --> 00:21:33.658 Nicolas Georges: So this is a topic we've been working on for decades, and 00:21:33.818 --> 00:21:39.658 we've had some successes, but we've also seen rises in the uptick of people 00:21:39.878 --> 00:21:43.488 abusing these types of products again, unfortunately, the aerosol industry 00:21:43.498 --> 00:21:47.308 back in the nineties came up with a voluntary stand to have enhanced labeling. 00:21:47.603 --> 00:21:52.553 Uh, toe to warn users and the general public about the dangers of 00:21:52.553 --> 00:21:54.163 intentionally abusing these products. 00:21:54.553 --> 00:21:58.063 You know, when you want to concentrate a vapor, you're displacing the oxygen. 00:21:58.073 --> 00:21:59.763 That's gonna have an effect on your system. 00:21:59.763 --> 00:22:03.683 Whether it's your brain, your lungs, your other systems within your body. 00:22:03.953 --> 00:22:04.163 Victoria: Right. 00:22:04.763 --> 00:22:06.613 Nicolas Georges: That's just gonna be the natural reaction 00:22:06.623 --> 00:22:07.633 that's gonna take place there. 00:22:07.923 --> 00:22:10.763 And, you know, the displacement of oxygen, that's the euphoric 00:22:10.763 --> 00:22:11.853 high that you're getting there. 00:22:12.133 --> 00:22:12.563 Victoria: Got it. 00:22:12.573 --> 00:22:15.323 Nicolas Georges: Now, you're talking about products that are convenient. 00:22:15.598 --> 00:22:17.558 And readily available for low cost. 00:22:17.918 --> 00:22:20.818 And that's what makes these, among other consumer products, very 00:22:20.818 --> 00:22:22.058 attractive to those that seek the 00:22:22.163 --> 00:22:22.223 Victoria: warning. 00:22:22.224 --> 00:22:23.173 Now that 00:22:23.218 --> 00:22:26.458 Nicolas Georges: that warning, you know, for, for the uneducated, that 00:22:26.458 --> 00:22:28.588 warning is to say, oh, don't do this. 00:22:28.998 --> 00:22:31.418 But the reality is the people that are seeking this behavior and the 00:22:31.428 --> 00:22:36.068 reason why HPA works with substance abuse experts is to, to recognize the 00:22:36.068 --> 00:22:38.808 warning isn't to, to deter the, the use. 00:22:39.138 --> 00:22:40.878 Because the people that are seeking that behavior, they 00:22:40.878 --> 00:22:41.808 already know that they can do 00:22:41.808 --> 00:22:41.915 this. 00:22:41.915 --> 00:22:42.422 Victoria: do this. 00:22:42.422 --> 00:22:43.068 They can go 00:22:43.078 --> 00:22:45.098 Nicolas Georges: to, and whether it's, it's, they can't get. 00:22:45.448 --> 00:22:47.828 Product A, they're just going to go to product B or product C, 00:22:47.878 --> 00:22:49.158 whatever they can get their hands on. 00:22:49.638 --> 00:22:52.428 It's to warn the loved ones in their lives, though, when they 00:22:52.428 --> 00:22:54.828 see 12 cans in the bedroom or the 00:22:54.884 --> 00:22:55.653 Victoria: the car. 00:22:55.978 --> 00:22:56.908 Nicolas Georges: What's happening 00:22:57.193 --> 00:22:57.578 Victoria: is 00:22:57.838 --> 00:22:59.018 Nicolas Georges: Why is this taking place? 00:22:59.048 --> 00:23:02.748 And when you see these enhanced warnings that aren't required by government, 00:23:03.048 --> 00:23:06.488 that we're doing ourselves because we know there's an issue, that's 00:23:06.498 --> 00:23:10.468 part of the discussion to hopefully educate them from that standpoint. 00:23:10.858 --> 00:23:13.718 Um, because so much of this is just awareness. 00:23:14.023 --> 00:23:16.983 Victoria: My fifth and final theme is around watching and waiting 00:23:17.073 --> 00:23:20.553 for the new administration and the effects that that is going to have. 00:23:20.593 --> 00:23:25.303 So the Trump administration takes seat in January and. 00:23:26.383 --> 00:23:28.573 New administrations are not a new thing, right? 00:23:28.603 --> 00:23:33.063 Every four years, the U S has this opportunity to, um, have some changes 00:23:33.103 --> 00:23:35.273 on Capitol Hill and in the White House. 00:23:35.613 --> 00:23:40.643 So there's always this expectation as it relates to government agencies, 00:23:40.683 --> 00:23:44.083 the EPA, for instance, about how, what changes are going to take place. 00:23:44.093 --> 00:23:48.503 So we know there's been a lot of vocalization of new ways 00:23:48.503 --> 00:23:49.693 of working that are expected. 00:23:50.083 --> 00:23:55.478 So consideration here, and it weighs certainly on the conversations within 00:23:55.488 --> 00:23:58.378 each HCPA and across its member companies. 00:23:58.508 --> 00:24:00.608 What new ways of workings come to bear? 00:24:01.228 --> 00:24:04.808 Um, there's been a lot of conversation, of course, in the public discord 00:24:04.828 --> 00:24:06.768 around the role of tariffs, right? 00:24:06.798 --> 00:24:12.333 And whether the 60 percent tariffs That had been suggested for China apply 00:24:12.333 --> 00:24:17.123 that has a big significant financial implication and then really the thing 00:24:17.133 --> 00:24:22.013 that I heard a lot of Conversation around is DOGE and what the effect of doge 00:24:22.013 --> 00:24:27.153 is and doge if you don't know is the Department of Government Efficiency Gonna 00:24:27.153 --> 00:24:30.703 be led by Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy. 00:24:31.203 --> 00:24:38.678 And a real concern about what that means for the EPA and Um, and the 00:24:38.678 --> 00:24:43.868 funding for the EPA, the, uh, the impact that that has, because again, 00:24:44.148 --> 00:24:47.088 one of the themes that comes through, and I talked about it early on and it 00:24:47.088 --> 00:24:51.748 comes through here at the end, is this need for transparency and alignment. 00:24:52.048 --> 00:24:57.308 Without the federal regulatory system working the EPA working effectively 00:24:57.648 --> 00:25:01.838 the states step up And the challenge when the states step up they each 00:25:01.838 --> 00:25:03.868 are applying different regulations. 00:25:03.918 --> 00:25:09.338 There's 50 regulations that potentially have to be monitored understood complied 00:25:09.338 --> 00:25:14.518 with um, Nicholas George when I talked with him a bit and in fact, we may um, 00:25:14.628 --> 00:25:17.028 you're going to want to go over and look at the youtube video for that one 00:25:17.028 --> 00:25:20.333 because we had some A number of great conversations, number of things that 00:25:20.333 --> 00:25:26.113 came through, um, was just one of the challenges, of course, is you can have 00:25:26.113 --> 00:25:32.273 something that is maybe a state puts in place a regulation, but it's actually 00:25:32.363 --> 00:25:34.543 doesn't comply with a federal regulation. 00:25:34.543 --> 00:25:36.953 So we get a lot of misalignment. 00:25:36.973 --> 00:25:41.353 So that was a conversation that came through with everyone, whether it was 00:25:41.363 --> 00:25:46.673 Mike Gruber, Nicholas George, Steve Caldeira, is this whole concern a frankly, 00:25:46.753 --> 00:25:50.803 by the way, not just those guys, but people across the organization that 00:25:50.803 --> 00:25:54.953 were there, the several hundred people about what the effect is of watching 00:25:54.953 --> 00:25:58.103 and waiting for the new administration, the new rules that are coming in, 00:25:58.473 --> 00:26:02.033 how the EPA is going to be funded and frankly, what it means for business. 00:26:02.043 --> 00:26:05.273 So, um, Those are my themes. 00:26:06.143 --> 00:26:09.743 I really, again, I really encourage you to head over to our YouTube channel. 00:26:09.763 --> 00:26:13.743 So you can just search for The Chemical Show podcast on YouTube and you're 00:26:13.743 --> 00:26:20.383 going to find it or the direct link is youtube.com/thechemicalshowpodcast, 00:26:20.728 --> 00:26:25.048 and you will find all of our episodes, some special things. 00:26:25.168 --> 00:26:30.808 And, as it relates to the conversations I had at HCPA's annual meeting, you're 00:26:30.808 --> 00:26:34.768 going to find a number of interviews with HCPA leaders right there. 00:26:35.238 --> 00:26:37.748 It's short and sweet, 10 to 15 minutes each. 00:26:37.748 --> 00:26:42.158 So go in and listen and learn more about what those priorities are and 00:26:42.168 --> 00:26:46.248 how, um, that you're taking effect and how they are affecting the chemical 00:26:46.248 --> 00:26:51.338 industry, all the other products and industries that are part of HCPA and more. 00:26:51.538 --> 00:26:53.378 So that is it for today. 00:26:53.388 --> 00:26:54.568 Thank you for listening. 00:26:54.868 --> 00:26:57.468 Keep listening, keep following, keep sharing, and we will 00:26:57.468 --> 00:26:59.268 talk with you again soon.