WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:25.082 --> 00:00:26.732 Anke: Hello and welcome, Marilyn. 00:00:26.732 --> 00:00:28.652 I'm super excited to have you here. 00:00:29.492 --> 00:00:31.652 Oh, Anke, thank you so much. 00:00:31.652 --> 00:00:33.302 I'm really excited to do this. 00:00:33.302 --> 00:00:34.502 This is gonna be a lot of fun. 00:00:35.792 --> 00:00:36.184 For sure, for sure. 00:00:36.189 --> 00:00:40.382 I have no doubts, so let's just dive straight in, let people know 00:00:40.382 --> 00:00:44.202 where in this lovely world you are and what's your business with dogs? 00:00:44.222 --> 00:00:44.462 Marilyn: Yes. 00:00:45.032 --> 00:00:52.742 Yeah, I am in the us I am in Tennessee, um, Dolly Parton country in the East 00:00:52.742 --> 00:00:55.322 Tennessee, the, uh, smokey Mountains. 00:00:55.952 --> 00:01:02.342 And, uh, I am a transplant from New York State where I grew up until 00:01:02.342 --> 00:01:04.772 about 20 years ago when I moved. 00:01:04.982 --> 00:01:05.672 To the south. 00:01:05.852 --> 00:01:13.742 So that's where I am now and I work online since Covid, I made that pivot. 00:01:14.192 --> 00:01:16.142 And I work with people online. 00:01:16.142 --> 00:01:21.722 So even though I'm here in beautiful East Tennessee, I can work with people 00:01:21.782 --> 00:01:24.422 anywhere in the world, which is a joy. 00:01:25.472 --> 00:01:26.072 Anke: I love that. 00:01:26.132 --> 00:01:26.672 I love that. 00:01:27.002 --> 00:01:32.822 So you've just told me just before, you've been in that game for quite a while. 00:01:33.272 --> 00:01:33.362 Mm-hmm. 00:01:33.602 --> 00:01:35.252 So what's the changes? 00:01:35.252 --> 00:01:39.452 What's the biggest change you've seen since when you started? 00:01:39.632 --> 00:01:39.722 Mm-hmm. 00:01:40.202 --> 00:01:41.312 Compared to what? 00:01:41.402 --> 00:01:42.237 What we're dealing with today. 00:01:43.292 --> 00:01:47.462 Marilyn: Yeah, I, I have been fascinated with training dogs 00:01:47.462 --> 00:01:48.902 ever since I was a child. 00:01:48.902 --> 00:01:54.722 And I started to do it as I was, I, I worked as, as a teacher, that was 00:01:54.722 --> 00:01:58.412 my real job for, um, for many years. 00:01:58.412 --> 00:01:58.472 I. 00:01:58.472 --> 00:02:06.307 And I worked with human children, human students, and dog students simultaneously. 00:02:06.727 --> 00:02:12.397 So I started working seriously and professionally with dogs 00:02:12.397 --> 00:02:15.847 and people 40, 50 years ago. 00:02:15.877 --> 00:02:17.677 That was a long time and. 00:02:18.377 --> 00:02:24.587 Back then the, the way we approached teaching dogs and training dogs was 00:02:24.587 --> 00:02:26.777 very different from the way it is now. 00:02:27.107 --> 00:02:31.937 There are still some remnants of that old, uh, approach. 00:02:31.937 --> 00:02:35.987 Those old techniques, there's still hanging around a little bit, but 00:02:35.987 --> 00:02:39.107 there's a huge evolution going on. 00:02:40.322 --> 00:02:46.532 In the dog world, in how we view dogs and how we look at dogs, and that 00:02:46.532 --> 00:02:52.382 is thanks to all of the, not only the, the research that's being done 00:02:52.442 --> 00:02:54.602 in universities around the world. 00:02:55.387 --> 00:02:59.887 Also in the way that very forward thinking, progressive, 00:03:00.307 --> 00:03:05.227 compassionate people are approaching their work with dogs. 00:03:05.587 --> 00:03:09.517 And a lot of those people, I feel, some of them I know personally, but 00:03:09.517 --> 00:03:14.677 some of them I just follow and I feel as if all of them have been my 00:03:14.677 --> 00:03:20.107 mentors in the way I have completely transformed the way I work with dogs. 00:03:21.037 --> 00:03:23.527 And what I found, um, I. 00:03:24.377 --> 00:03:31.037 When Covid hit and we all had to really do some quick adaptations of how we work. 00:03:31.547 --> 00:03:36.767 Um, what I found is I started to talk to people who were not just in my geographic 00:03:36.767 --> 00:03:40.037 area, but people all over the world. 00:03:40.037 --> 00:03:44.927 And what I discovered was that there was a common thread. 00:03:46.007 --> 00:03:52.607 Across the globe of dogs that were distressed, dogs that were traumatized, 00:03:52.967 --> 00:03:58.337 dogs that were highly sensitive, and were having a lot of trouble just 00:03:58.697 --> 00:04:01.907 functioning in daily life in society. 00:04:03.317 --> 00:04:09.377 So I was, I didn't expect to find that because I had worked, been working locally 00:04:09.407 --> 00:04:12.977 with, with dogs in my own geographic area. 00:04:13.922 --> 00:04:18.242 But as I sat back and thought about what I learned from these people all over the 00:04:18.242 --> 00:04:25.412 world and what I had been observing with the dogs that I worked with personally, I. 00:04:26.672 --> 00:04:27.872 I saw, yes. 00:04:27.962 --> 00:04:33.332 I, I can see that's the piece that was missing when I was 00:04:33.332 --> 00:04:34.892 working with these dogs. 00:04:35.372 --> 00:04:42.602 I was using an old approach, um, which was still, it was positive. 00:04:42.632 --> 00:04:48.272 It was, I mean, we never did anything, uh, aversive or harmful to the dogs. 00:04:49.367 --> 00:04:56.027 But it was still addressing those feelings, those big feelings that 00:04:56.027 --> 00:05:01.877 dogs were having by trying to change the behavior that was a result of 00:05:01.877 --> 00:05:08.087 those feelings instead of really addressing the feelings that were 00:05:08.087 --> 00:05:10.877 really at the root of what was going on. 00:05:11.507 --> 00:05:12.767 Anke: That makes so much sense. 00:05:12.947 --> 00:05:16.427 I'm curious, do you find that that, uh. 00:05:17.402 --> 00:05:22.022 Over the years, dogs are more sensitive now. 00:05:23.117 --> 00:05:29.267 You know, like, is it, is it that in older days people just didn't kind 00:05:29.267 --> 00:05:33.257 of pay that much attention or just intimidated the life out of a dog? 00:05:33.257 --> 00:05:33.652 Or, yeah. 00:05:34.127 --> 00:05:39.587 Or like, are dogs more exposed to more things or to more like, 00:05:39.587 --> 00:05:43.697 stressful situations or, or is that just the perception that dogs seem 00:05:43.697 --> 00:05:45.917 to be more, you know, I don't know. 00:05:45.977 --> 00:05:48.377 Like I've see, I've read things where it's just like, oh 00:05:48.377 --> 00:05:49.847 yeah, there's more dogs with. 00:05:50.782 --> 00:05:56.842 Reactivity with kind of behaviors that would stem from some kind of, um, you 00:05:56.842 --> 00:06:02.902 know, stressed out stage kind of, you know, so is that, is that getting worse 00:06:02.902 --> 00:06:04.642 or is it just that we're noticing it more? 00:06:05.722 --> 00:06:08.332 Marilyn: That, that is really the question, isn't it? 00:06:08.702 --> 00:06:14.732 That, that really gets to the whole point of, of working with these dogs. 00:06:14.732 --> 00:06:17.612 Are they getting worse or are we just noticing it more? 00:06:18.392 --> 00:06:22.142 And I'm not sure what, what the answer to that is. 00:06:22.142 --> 00:06:28.202 I can tell you what my intuition tells me is going on, but of course. 00:06:28.922 --> 00:06:32.192 You know, that's, that's just my feeling about it. 00:06:32.192 --> 00:06:36.602 And as the more I talk to people who are caring for these dogs, 00:06:36.692 --> 00:06:41.672 the, the more I understand about what's going on with the dog. 00:06:41.672 --> 00:06:42.212 So 00:06:44.312 --> 00:06:48.092 the, the research that I've seen has. 00:06:48.932 --> 00:06:58.202 Enormous percentages of dogs, like I've seen percentages, like 80, 85% of dog 00:06:58.202 --> 00:07:04.382 owners who were polled about what their dogs were experiencing, said that their 00:07:04.382 --> 00:07:07.742 dogs were reactive or hypersensitive. 00:07:09.137 --> 00:07:12.587 That's mind blowing when you think about it, but that's only the people who 00:07:12.587 --> 00:07:16.277 were asked and answered the percentage. 00:07:16.277 --> 00:07:19.817 So do, do more people answer questionnaires like that? 00:07:20.267 --> 00:07:25.667 If the, the question, you know, relates to what they're going through and the ones 00:07:25.667 --> 00:07:27.527 who say, nah, that doesn't apply to me. 00:07:27.527 --> 00:07:29.417 They don't answer the questionnaire. 00:07:29.417 --> 00:07:31.727 So, you know, does that impact the result? 00:07:31.727 --> 00:07:32.717 Who, uh, who knows? 00:07:33.857 --> 00:07:35.087 But here's what. 00:07:36.392 --> 00:07:43.472 I can intuitively sense from the people that I talk to is that 00:07:44.282 --> 00:07:49.352 we, we have a society that is. 00:07:50.477 --> 00:07:52.967 Changing at such a rapid pace. 00:07:53.627 --> 00:07:59.177 You know, there's probably been more change in the last 10 years say 00:07:59.567 --> 00:08:01.877 than there was in the last hundred. 00:08:01.937 --> 00:08:02.327 Who knows? 00:08:02.327 --> 00:08:05.627 I'm just making up those numbers, but just, just to kind of, it's massive. 00:08:05.627 --> 00:08:10.367 Get the, the idea across and dogs. 00:08:10.937 --> 00:08:17.837 Are animals that don't have access to, you know, understanding technology or 00:08:17.837 --> 00:08:20.387 hearing news or, or any of those things. 00:08:20.807 --> 00:08:24.047 They are just trying to make sense of the world around them. 00:08:25.127 --> 00:08:29.447 And so I, I think it's a, a two-pronged problem. 00:08:29.477 --> 00:08:30.047 I think that. 00:08:31.277 --> 00:08:37.997 The dogs are struggling to keep up, and some of them have a capacity to do that. 00:08:37.997 --> 00:08:40.787 Some of them have more of a. 00:08:41.252 --> 00:08:43.082 Of an ability to adapt. 00:08:43.592 --> 00:08:47.492 And of course adaptability is key because any, if we can't adapt, 00:08:47.492 --> 00:08:48.602 we're not going to survive. 00:08:49.082 --> 00:08:53.672 So some of some dogs have the ability to adapt and, and they do okay. 00:08:54.482 --> 00:08:56.402 Others struggle to adapt. 00:08:56.432 --> 00:09:00.362 They have a more sensitive nervous system. 00:09:01.417 --> 00:09:03.242 We know that that's true of people, right? 00:09:03.242 --> 00:09:08.972 There is something called highly sensitive person, and that's been demonstrated 00:09:08.972 --> 00:09:10.262 and researched and all of that. 00:09:11.792 --> 00:09:20.042 And we also know that that high sensitivity applies to animals as well. 00:09:21.212 --> 00:09:27.242 So I think the dogs that are naturally highly sensitive, struggle more to 00:09:27.242 --> 00:09:29.582 adapt to this fast changing society. 00:09:29.582 --> 00:09:31.712 So I think that's one piece of it. 00:09:32.192 --> 00:09:38.012 And I think the other piece of it is that the people who are caring for dogs. 00:09:40.742 --> 00:09:46.322 Maybe they're adapting to the society changes, but they're not adapting 00:09:46.592 --> 00:09:51.242 when it comes to the tools they use to help their dogs, to raise 00:09:51.242 --> 00:09:52.802 their dogs, to train their dogs. 00:09:53.102 --> 00:09:59.377 They're using outdated methods and beliefs and systems. 00:10:00.797 --> 00:10:06.167 To address, um, the sensitivity of a dog that's struggling. 00:10:06.227 --> 00:10:06.527 So mm-hmm. 00:10:06.797 --> 00:10:12.017 It's kind of like, you know, two opposite forces crashing together. 00:10:12.077 --> 00:10:12.497 Anke: Totally. 00:10:12.707 --> 00:10:13.787 Marilyn: And, yeah. 00:10:14.027 --> 00:10:17.267 Anke: Do you think that also plays a role, uh, now, because 00:10:17.267 --> 00:10:18.767 when you think about that, like, 00:10:20.897 --> 00:10:23.147 like, like my, my grandpa, right? 00:10:23.567 --> 00:10:24.887 He went. 00:10:25.667 --> 00:10:31.577 He, he left university and took a job and that was the job he had, right? 00:10:31.817 --> 00:10:36.227 So my dad changed two or three times throughout his life. 00:10:36.887 --> 00:10:39.317 I can't even count how many times he changed. 00:10:39.317 --> 00:10:39.587 Right. 00:10:39.917 --> 00:10:42.347 So, I mean, that's probably not helping either. 00:10:42.347 --> 00:10:43.877 Like even practically. 00:10:44.402 --> 00:10:49.712 When looking how, how much dogs kinda like the routine of 00:10:49.712 --> 00:10:51.362 knowing what's gonna happen. 00:10:51.572 --> 00:10:53.582 Like our lives are crazier. 00:10:53.972 --> 00:10:54.062 Mm-hmm. 00:10:54.062 --> 00:10:56.282 There's a lot more irregularity. 00:10:56.282 --> 00:10:58.112 It's not like, okay, go to him. 00:10:58.382 --> 00:11:04.112 And I actually now reminds me of my Leo, like he hated being left alone, you know? 00:11:04.112 --> 00:11:04.202 Mm-hmm. 00:11:04.442 --> 00:11:09.212 It was a real big problem until I started going to yoga classes twice a week. 00:11:11.117 --> 00:11:14.147 I was working from home, so he was like, sometimes he'd be like 00:11:14.147 --> 00:11:17.237 weeks without being alone, and all of a sudden I had to go somewhere 00:11:17.477 --> 00:11:19.217 and he never knew what was coming. 00:11:19.217 --> 00:11:19.487 Right. 00:11:19.487 --> 00:11:20.897 And there he was always on edge. 00:11:21.167 --> 00:11:24.737 The moment I was like, okay, every Tuesday, every Thursday, 00:11:24.737 --> 00:11:28.907 she grabs this, this mat, and then I know what's gonna happen. 00:11:28.967 --> 00:11:33.017 That was the first time I saw him settle down on the sofa when I was 00:11:33.017 --> 00:11:34.817 about to leave because he knew. 00:11:34.817 --> 00:11:34.907 Mm-hmm. 00:11:35.282 --> 00:11:38.252 What was, and I think, do you think that plays a role as well? 00:11:38.672 --> 00:11:38.972 Oh, 00:11:38.972 --> 00:11:39.932 Marilyn: for sure. 00:11:40.082 --> 00:11:40.682 For sure. 00:11:41.102 --> 00:11:44.732 Um, it, it, because what you're talking about is predictability. 00:11:45.062 --> 00:11:45.212 Yeah. 00:11:45.452 --> 00:11:46.112 And are. 00:11:46.832 --> 00:11:50.942 Our brains are hardwired for predictability because that keeps us safe. 00:11:51.032 --> 00:11:51.092 Yeah. 00:11:51.842 --> 00:11:57.932 And that's one of the things that's missing with a, a lot of our traumatized 00:11:57.932 --> 00:12:02.762 or sensitive dogs, maybe they come, came from situations where they either had 00:12:02.762 --> 00:12:07.382 no predictability, so they never knew what was going to happen next, or the 00:12:07.382 --> 00:12:12.422 predictability was there, but it was something sad and dangerous and scary. 00:12:12.422 --> 00:12:12.812 Mm-hmm. 00:12:14.082 --> 00:12:16.637 so yeah, predictability is huge. 00:12:16.637 --> 00:12:21.827 And when I work with traumatized and sensitive dogs, that's one 00:12:21.827 --> 00:12:25.397 of the things that we, um, I. 00:12:25.397 --> 00:12:28.922 But that's one of the pillars of the program that I use to help them. 00:12:28.922 --> 00:12:31.352 And this is a program that I created from scratch. 00:12:31.532 --> 00:12:31.622 Hmm. 00:12:32.222 --> 00:12:37.532 Because none of the traditional dog training programs were 00:12:37.532 --> 00:12:39.062 appropriate for helping dogs. 00:12:39.062 --> 00:12:45.002 They were all focused on changing the behavior that you see instead 00:12:45.002 --> 00:12:49.712 of looking at the reason for the behavior that we can't see. 00:12:50.192 --> 00:12:50.702 That's. 00:12:51.092 --> 00:12:52.262 Beneath everything. 00:12:52.652 --> 00:12:58.382 So, you know, I looked at what, I actually looked at what therapists 00:12:58.982 --> 00:13:05.312 do for humans, and there are, there are a few, um, people who, who. 00:13:06.497 --> 00:13:13.397 Have skills in both areas, and they work with dogs, but they also had a 00:13:13.397 --> 00:13:19.307 career, or currently have a career as, um, a psychotherapist for humans. 00:13:19.997 --> 00:13:25.787 And so the two skills are very closely integrated. 00:13:26.147 --> 00:13:31.097 So I looked at that and that's, that's what I based my program 00:13:31.097 --> 00:13:35.747 on, because I already knew, I, I knew how to train behaviors. 00:13:36.197 --> 00:13:40.007 I've been doing that for decades, so I knew how to do that, but that 00:13:40.007 --> 00:13:42.527 wasn't helping the sensitive dog. 00:13:42.527 --> 00:13:47.867 So I had to ask what, you know, what can I do for them where they can, 00:13:48.317 --> 00:13:51.167 you know, feel, feel safe enough? 00:13:51.167 --> 00:13:51.197 I. 00:13:51.902 --> 00:13:54.662 To learn because they didn't feel safe. 00:13:54.692 --> 00:13:57.512 And that was, that was one of the reasons they couldn't learn. 00:13:57.512 --> 00:14:00.032 They were constantly in this fight or flight. 00:14:00.032 --> 00:14:01.442 You know, am I, am I safe? 00:14:01.442 --> 00:14:02.252 Am I not safe? 00:14:02.522 --> 00:14:03.482 What do I have to do? 00:14:03.512 --> 00:14:04.712 Do I have to run away? 00:14:05.042 --> 00:14:06.242 Do I have to fight it off? 00:14:06.242 --> 00:14:10.712 And that's where you get dogs that, you know, explode into this barking, 00:14:10.712 --> 00:14:16.862 frantic, you know, hyper arousal because they feel like they have to 00:14:16.862 --> 00:14:20.552 make the scary thing go away, and they have to look tough and dangerous. 00:14:21.332 --> 00:14:22.922 So, and it looks like aggression. 00:14:22.922 --> 00:14:26.042 And people say, why is that dog, you know, my dog isn't aggressive, 00:14:26.042 --> 00:14:27.362 but why is he so aggressive? 00:14:27.362 --> 00:14:30.512 And well, that, you know, aggressive is something d you know, 00:14:30.512 --> 00:14:31.922 aggression is something different. 00:14:32.282 --> 00:14:33.722 That dog is just scared. 00:14:34.347 --> 00:14:34.637 Anke: Yeah. 00:14:35.072 --> 00:14:35.252 Yeah. 00:14:35.252 --> 00:14:35.372 Marilyn: So 00:14:35.522 --> 00:14:37.142 Anke: I saw that actually with mine. 00:14:37.142 --> 00:14:39.362 He got bitten when he was 11 months old. 00:14:39.722 --> 00:14:40.022 Yeah. 00:14:40.022 --> 00:14:42.722 And he was, you know, and he was trying, and his whole, like, you could 00:14:42.722 --> 00:14:45.002 see it in his little, like his whole. 00:14:46.262 --> 00:14:51.272 Perception of the world is, well, he had, you know, I found him in the 00:14:51.272 --> 00:14:55.292 street, so he knew probably by then that the, the world wasn't that friendly. 00:14:55.292 --> 00:14:55.532 Right. 00:14:55.802 --> 00:15:00.452 But, um, you know, he was quite happy to approach like, I'm cute 00:15:00.452 --> 00:15:03.422 and you know, it, you know, and that dog didn't take that very well. 00:15:03.422 --> 00:15:03.722 Right. 00:15:03.962 --> 00:15:07.022 And so he was never quite the same after that, you know? 00:15:07.082 --> 00:15:07.352 Yeah. 00:15:07.352 --> 00:15:11.732 Because that, that sense of safety, that sense of, um, yeah. 00:15:14.342 --> 00:15:17.312 It's, it's kind of, there was always that sense of, of dangers and he would 00:15:17.312 --> 00:15:21.932 like when there was like a big male dog in confined spaces, but he would be 00:15:21.932 --> 00:15:26.222 that little dog that went off, you know, because it was, and you could really see 00:15:26.222 --> 00:15:28.202 it, how it was about like, no, no, no, no. 00:15:28.202 --> 00:15:31.772 I'm actually scared shitless here and I just want this thing to go away 00:15:31.772 --> 00:15:33.152 and this is all I know how to do. 00:15:33.362 --> 00:15:37.382 The other one would sort of shrink heat, height, and flower pots. 00:15:37.672 --> 00:15:41.752 You know, so he was literally the opposite in a sense because, you know, 00:15:41.752 --> 00:15:46.882 he had lived the first few weeks in environments that no dog should, you know? 00:15:47.122 --> 00:15:50.962 And it's really interesting to see how that shows up, you know? 00:15:50.962 --> 00:15:52.132 Whereas the big girls now, mm-hmm. 00:15:53.032 --> 00:16:00.502 They've not ever had anybody threatening that sense of safety in the world. 00:16:00.502 --> 00:16:01.677 And it really, mm-hmm. 00:16:01.787 --> 00:16:02.557 It's night and day. 00:16:03.062 --> 00:16:06.872 So what's a what in your experience, like, or, you know, in your program 00:16:06.872 --> 00:16:12.092 or like, what's the, you know, what's one thing about safety or feeling safe 00:16:12.092 --> 00:16:13.802 for a dog that you wish people knew? 00:16:14.927 --> 00:16:15.827 Marilyn: Ah, yes. 00:16:15.827 --> 00:16:18.107 And so what happened with your guy? 00:16:18.182 --> 00:16:22.877 I, I can actually relate a similar story and I'll do that in a minute, 00:16:22.877 --> 00:16:28.367 but what happened with him is that, as you said, he walked up to the 00:16:28.367 --> 00:16:33.497 other dog, like, here I am and I wanna make friends, and the dog bit him. 00:16:34.067 --> 00:16:37.367 And so his trust was just shattered. 00:16:37.652 --> 00:16:37.952 Anke: Yeah, 00:16:38.582 --> 00:16:43.622 Marilyn: and trust is something that is so fragile that once it's 00:16:43.622 --> 00:16:46.352 broken, it takes a long time. 00:16:46.352 --> 00:16:46.382 I. 00:16:46.817 --> 00:16:48.317 To put it back together again. 00:16:48.377 --> 00:16:50.057 And sometimes you can't. 00:16:50.147 --> 00:16:57.017 And it depends on, it depends on the dog's, uh, nature and personality and 00:16:57.017 --> 00:17:03.287 his, you know, his, the way he perceives the world around him and so forth. 00:17:03.287 --> 00:17:05.657 Whether he is able to do that. 00:17:06.107 --> 00:17:11.207 Some dogs can't and, and some dogs can, but what I wish people knew about 00:17:11.207 --> 00:17:15.677 safety, what a, what a great question is. 00:17:16.157 --> 00:17:26.057 That feeling safe is something that happens internally in an individual. 00:17:27.227 --> 00:17:28.217 You can't teach it. 00:17:28.247 --> 00:17:30.197 You can't train it, you can't. 00:17:30.197 --> 00:17:30.257 I. 00:17:30.992 --> 00:17:33.122 Persuade a dog to feel safe. 00:17:33.422 --> 00:17:36.902 So if he's scared of something, you can't talk him out of being scared. 00:17:37.502 --> 00:17:39.452 You know, people will try to do that. 00:17:39.452 --> 00:17:41.582 Like, oh, it's okay, don't worry. 00:17:41.852 --> 00:17:42.872 Don't be scared. 00:17:43.712 --> 00:17:49.982 Safety is a felt sensation that is inside the animal. 00:17:50.522 --> 00:17:59.612 It comes from a belief, and if they don't believe that the environment around them. 00:18:00.637 --> 00:18:05.552 It is not dangerous that there are no threats, that they are free to move about. 00:18:05.612 --> 00:18:13.742 And also the other piece of that, of, of feeling safe that's so important is dogs 00:18:13.832 --> 00:18:19.322 must know how to find their safe exit. 00:18:20.882 --> 00:18:26.762 So if they're in a situation where, um, something scares them. 00:18:27.542 --> 00:18:31.742 They have to know how they can escape it, how they can exit, 00:18:31.742 --> 00:18:32.882 how they can get away from it. 00:18:33.272 --> 00:18:36.392 Because one of the, one of the. 00:18:37.067 --> 00:18:43.307 Safest things that we can do to help dogs that feel scared is give them distance 00:18:43.307 --> 00:18:46.367 from the thing that would be, that's the first thing that I tell people to do. 00:18:46.727 --> 00:18:50.507 If your dog is scared of something, get distance from it. 00:18:50.867 --> 00:18:54.617 The dog will tell you when that distance is enough for him. 00:18:54.977 --> 00:18:59.747 And it's different for each dog, and it's different in each situation, but you need 00:18:59.747 --> 00:19:05.147 to get far away from it and, and what people tend to do often is the opposite. 00:19:05.732 --> 00:19:09.692 They will tell the dog, now sit quietly and watch this big 00:19:09.692 --> 00:19:11.672 scary thing coming toward you. 00:19:12.182 --> 00:19:17.252 It's like, you know, I, I gave this example, uh, to someone not long ago. 00:19:17.252 --> 00:19:20.672 So imagine that you're standing on a street corner and you 00:19:20.672 --> 00:19:22.292 see a bus coming at you. 00:19:22.772 --> 00:19:25.287 You're not gonna stop and think what to do. 00:19:30.937 --> 00:19:32.342 You're gonna get outta the way. 00:19:32.642 --> 00:19:35.612 But suppose there was somebody standing next to you and said, 00:19:35.822 --> 00:19:39.242 now I want you to sit here and I want you to just look at me. 00:19:39.242 --> 00:19:40.352 Don't look at that bus. 00:19:40.352 --> 00:19:41.102 Just look at me. 00:19:41.102 --> 00:19:42.692 And I want you to sit here quietly. 00:19:43.112 --> 00:19:43.742 Oh my God. 00:19:43.742 --> 00:19:44.972 Does that make any sense? 00:19:45.152 --> 00:19:46.172 Are you gonna feel better? 00:19:46.922 --> 00:19:50.582 So, um, so I think that. 00:19:50.942 --> 00:19:54.482 You know, feeling safe is something that you have to believe. 00:19:54.512 --> 00:19:58.712 If you jump out of the way and you go stand, like inside a building, 00:19:58.712 --> 00:20:01.292 you go, huh, okay, I feel better now. 00:20:01.292 --> 00:20:04.892 I feel safe because you took action. 00:20:05.462 --> 00:20:10.952 So when dogs are afraid of something, in order to regain their sense of 00:20:10.952 --> 00:20:16.622 safety, they have to feel free to take the action that their automatic 00:20:16.622 --> 00:20:18.302 nervous system is telling them to take. 00:20:18.872 --> 00:20:19.142 Hmm. 00:20:19.562 --> 00:20:22.022 So jumping out of the way of the bus is automatic. 00:20:22.022 --> 00:20:23.012 You don't think about that. 00:20:24.617 --> 00:20:25.352 So, right. 00:20:25.772 --> 00:20:36.062 So the dog has to have the freedom to jump out of the way to find that safe 00:20:36.122 --> 00:20:43.562 exit, to know where it is, and knowing where it is helps the dog believe 00:20:43.562 --> 00:20:47.702 that he's safe, because if something bad happens, I've got a way out. 00:20:48.752 --> 00:20:53.582 I've got a way to be safe, and I know where my safe exit is, and just knowing 00:20:53.582 --> 00:20:58.052 it's there, whether they use it or not, but knowing it's there helps. 00:20:58.682 --> 00:21:03.902 And the problem that happens with a lot of sensitive dogs out in the 00:21:03.902 --> 00:21:08.042 world is that when we take them out in the world, they're on a leash. 00:21:08.492 --> 00:21:09.872 We need to use a leash. 00:21:09.872 --> 00:21:11.282 We need to keep our dogs safe. 00:21:11.282 --> 00:21:14.882 We can't just let them randomly roam wherever because 00:21:14.882 --> 00:21:16.832 the world today isn't safe. 00:21:17.507 --> 00:21:21.407 30, 40, 50 years ago, it was safe for dogs to do that. 00:21:22.277 --> 00:21:28.007 You know, I can remember, I don't ever remember dogs in my family having a fence. 00:21:28.637 --> 00:21:33.167 They wandered around, they did what they wanna do, and they came home, you know, 00:21:33.167 --> 00:21:35.057 and the neighborhood dogs did that. 00:21:35.357 --> 00:21:39.347 We can't let our dogs do that anymore unless we live in a big, open space 00:21:39.347 --> 00:21:41.807 in the country, but most of us don't. 00:21:42.737 --> 00:21:46.217 So the dogs have to be on a leash, but what does that 00:21:46.217 --> 00:21:49.037 leash do for a frightened dog? 00:21:49.307 --> 00:21:52.307 It cuts off their freedom to escape. 00:21:53.777 --> 00:21:55.217 It makes them feel trapped. 00:21:55.427 --> 00:21:58.427 Anke: I actually, you know, actually did that a couple of times because 00:21:58.427 --> 00:22:02.927 Leo was literally, what I'd noticed was when we out sort of on the beach 00:22:02.957 --> 00:22:05.597 in a wide open space, he was fine. 00:22:05.612 --> 00:22:10.412 Yeah, but when it was in the, in the center where we lived in a little narrow 00:22:10.412 --> 00:22:15.422 cobbled stone and there was like, you know, and he, and I remember like with 00:22:15.422 --> 00:22:21.332 dogs I knew, you know, when people would come across, I would, and he was 00:22:21.332 --> 00:22:25.622 like getting like his little tail up and I know he is gonna go for that dog. 00:22:25.982 --> 00:22:27.002 I'm like, okay. 00:22:27.272 --> 00:22:28.802 And I unclipped his leash. 00:22:30.107 --> 00:22:32.837 Because it was pedestrian like there were no cars. 00:22:32.837 --> 00:22:35.507 And I also only did it when I knew the dog. 00:22:35.507 --> 00:22:35.777 Right? 00:22:35.837 --> 00:22:35.897 Yeah. 00:22:36.167 --> 00:22:37.427 And, and then he'd be like. 00:22:38.702 --> 00:22:40.292 Alright, do, do, do, do, do. 00:22:40.292 --> 00:22:41.582 And nothing ever happened. 00:22:41.582 --> 00:22:45.362 So, because that was literally, you could see it in his little body. 00:22:45.362 --> 00:22:49.562 Like he knew he had agency, like he could run off and, 00:22:49.562 --> 00:22:51.212 you know, he was free to move. 00:22:51.212 --> 00:22:54.572 So he had no longer had the need to actually, you know, 00:22:54.572 --> 00:22:56.312 like launch at that other dog. 00:22:56.522 --> 00:22:59.642 It was really, yeah, like, it's so counterintuitive though, 00:22:59.642 --> 00:23:00.152 Marilyn: right? 00:23:00.692 --> 00:23:01.592 Isn't it though? 00:23:01.862 --> 00:23:02.402 Yes. 00:23:02.437 --> 00:23:07.592 And, and, and so much of what I tell people to do is counterintuitive. 00:23:07.592 --> 00:23:11.402 And, and the reason it is, is because we have been culturally 00:23:11.402 --> 00:23:17.852 conditioned our whole lives to believe these, these out of date methods. 00:23:18.242 --> 00:23:23.132 And there, you know, they have a system in an order to them. 00:23:23.132 --> 00:23:27.632 So we gravitate toward them because it, you know, like this is what we do. 00:23:28.532 --> 00:23:33.332 This is how you teach a dog to sit and to stay and to come when called. 00:23:33.782 --> 00:23:41.162 Problem is that when you really need the dogs to do those things because there's 00:23:41.492 --> 00:23:47.372 potential problem looming in the distance that all of it, it all falls apart. 00:23:47.792 --> 00:23:48.002 Yeah. 00:23:48.107 --> 00:23:48.197 And 00:23:48.737 --> 00:23:51.017 Anke: when they don't trust you enough, they're not gonna come when 00:23:51.017 --> 00:23:52.487 it's, you know, when it's like, 00:23:53.927 --> 00:23:54.167 Marilyn: yeah. 00:23:54.167 --> 00:23:59.147 And if they're, if they're scared, they're gonna automatically do 00:23:59.147 --> 00:24:00.827 what they need to do to feel safe. 00:24:01.277 --> 00:24:06.077 And sometimes what they do puts them in harm's way even more. 00:24:06.917 --> 00:24:10.217 And that's why we, we, we really need to protect them. 00:24:10.757 --> 00:24:10.817 Yeah. 00:24:10.817 --> 00:24:11.327 So. 00:24:12.287 --> 00:24:17.177 You know that it, it can be a conflicting situation, but I 00:24:17.177 --> 00:24:19.547 think the bottom line is that. 00:24:20.447 --> 00:24:25.817 In order to work with a sensitive dog, you have to create an environment 00:24:25.817 --> 00:24:31.847 or a context or a circumstance where that dog knows he's safe and 00:24:31.847 --> 00:24:33.587 knows that he has an escape route. 00:24:33.617 --> 00:24:39.257 And whether that's working with him inside your home or in your backyard, 00:24:39.557 --> 00:24:44.837 or in a safe place where the dog feels relaxed, that's where you need to start. 00:24:45.227 --> 00:24:48.167 And the mistake that people make is that. 00:24:48.857 --> 00:24:56.237 They put the dog into the triggering situation, figuring that that's 00:24:56.237 --> 00:24:58.067 where they're going to teach the dog. 00:24:58.067 --> 00:25:02.027 But the thing is, the dog's, the dog's learning brain is shut down 00:25:02.027 --> 00:25:03.377 when he's in fight or flight. 00:25:03.377 --> 00:25:04.307 He can't think. 00:25:05.282 --> 00:25:06.707 And he, that's the same us, isn't it? 00:25:06.807 --> 00:25:09.092 Not that he, he's not being difficult or stubborn. 00:25:09.092 --> 00:25:15.482 And that's a mistake that some people make own, not, not because they're unkind, but 00:25:15.482 --> 00:25:17.162 just because they can't figure it out. 00:25:17.462 --> 00:25:17.612 Hmm. 00:25:17.672 --> 00:25:19.412 They're missing a piece of information. 00:25:19.412 --> 00:25:23.192 So if they think, you know, the dog is just being difficult, disobedient, 00:25:23.192 --> 00:25:24.962 stubborn, but that's not it at all. 00:25:26.252 --> 00:25:27.542 Anke: I think, do you find that? 00:25:27.572 --> 00:25:29.972 'cause that's something that I've heard, you know, or like this, 00:25:30.122 --> 00:25:31.862 oh, he does that on purpose. 00:25:31.862 --> 00:25:37.142 Like he does that to peeve me off or he's being defiant or like, you know, 00:25:37.142 --> 00:25:39.032 that whole disobedient as if the dog. 00:25:40.112 --> 00:25:44.792 Had some secret agenda there, you know, to make your life difficult. 00:25:44.792 --> 00:25:48.002 And I've never seen it like that, but I've taken a lot of like 00:25:48.362 --> 00:25:53.852 criticism before, not being strict with my sensitive dogs, right? 00:25:54.122 --> 00:25:57.062 Because I think, you know, well the last thing you need if you 00:25:57.062 --> 00:26:00.247 are already feeling unsafe is somebody who being harsh with you. 00:26:00.317 --> 00:26:01.927 Like that made no sense to me. 00:26:02.897 --> 00:26:03.227 Marilyn: Yeah. 00:26:03.737 --> 00:26:07.217 There will always be critics who are, who think they know more 00:26:07.217 --> 00:26:09.167 than you do about your own dog. 00:26:09.257 --> 00:26:09.377 Anke: Right. 00:26:09.377 --> 00:26:10.187 I'm just paying. 00:26:10.187 --> 00:26:10.937 You're gonna get loaded. 00:26:11.057 --> 00:26:11.432 Oh, they're, 00:26:11.432 --> 00:26:14.747 Marilyn: they're always there and, you know, we just have to live with them, 00:26:14.747 --> 00:26:20.297 but we also have to recognize that they don't have all the information. 00:26:20.807 --> 00:26:21.107 Yeah. 00:26:21.167 --> 00:26:23.867 That they're, you know, the, and, and. 00:26:23.957 --> 00:26:28.697 Uh, you know, basically it's like, thanks, thanks, but no thanks, 00:26:28.997 --> 00:26:30.647 you know, that kind of thing. 00:26:31.127 --> 00:26:35.807 Um, but, and I always tell people, your intuition is your best guide. 00:26:35.807 --> 00:26:35.897 Mm-hmm. 00:26:36.137 --> 00:26:42.857 You do what your, your gut, because your, your heart has its own intelligence. 00:26:43.037 --> 00:26:43.247 Yeah. 00:26:43.307 --> 00:26:46.997 And if your heart is telling you that this is the right thing to 00:26:46.997 --> 00:26:50.417 do for your dog, it doesn't matter what anybody else is telling you. 00:26:50.417 --> 00:26:50.477 Yeah. 00:26:51.167 --> 00:26:51.587 Even me. 00:26:52.442 --> 00:26:56.192 If I tell you something that your heart doesn't, uh, align 00:26:56.192 --> 00:26:57.602 with, don't listen to me. 00:26:58.562 --> 00:26:58.682 But 00:26:59.342 --> 00:27:03.812 Anke: that's, that, that requires quite a level of sort of confidence 00:27:03.812 --> 00:27:06.482 in your own judgment, you know? 00:27:06.752 --> 00:27:06.872 Yeah. 00:27:06.872 --> 00:27:08.492 And, and it's, uh, yeah. 00:27:08.492 --> 00:27:11.672 I think that's that whole journey that I've been on as a, you know, 00:27:11.672 --> 00:27:14.432 well, like, okay, I want, all of a sudden my little street dogs, 00:27:14.432 --> 00:27:15.632 I, all of a sudden I had dogs. 00:27:15.662 --> 00:27:15.962 Oh. 00:27:16.472 --> 00:27:19.712 You know, so I've always wanted to, but they did come at, you know, 00:27:19.712 --> 00:27:23.942 when they happened to cross my path and this whole advocacy piece. 00:27:24.572 --> 00:27:26.282 Has been the journey, right? 00:27:26.282 --> 00:27:27.992 To go from like, yes, I don't know. 00:27:28.172 --> 00:27:31.532 You know, other people know better than I do to going mm-hmm. 00:27:31.772 --> 00:27:32.282 No, no, no, no. 00:27:32.972 --> 00:27:34.202 I will look at my dog. 00:27:34.202 --> 00:27:34.262 Yeah. 00:27:34.262 --> 00:27:35.702 My dog is the one who knows. 00:27:36.032 --> 00:27:36.392 You know? 00:27:36.392 --> 00:27:38.042 I think that's been quite a journey. 00:27:38.942 --> 00:27:45.092 Marilyn: No one except you has the relationship with your dog that 00:27:45.092 --> 00:27:46.712 gives you the information you need. 00:27:47.132 --> 00:27:50.372 You have access to information that nobody else does. 00:27:50.972 --> 00:27:51.302 Anke: Yeah. 00:27:51.962 --> 00:27:54.362 Marilyn: So you, you need to use it and, and I think you're right, it does 00:27:54.362 --> 00:27:59.012 take a certain confidence and people, people do feel a little intimidated 00:27:59.372 --> 00:28:05.522 and they do think well, because I don't really know for sure what the answer is. 00:28:05.972 --> 00:28:08.462 Then that other person must know more than I do. 00:28:09.002 --> 00:28:10.532 Anke: Yeah, it's, but that's not true. 00:28:10.532 --> 00:28:12.242 Think it's, it's, no, it's not true. 00:28:12.242 --> 00:28:16.022 And, but I think it is typical, like in all areas of life really, so. 00:28:16.022 --> 00:28:16.112 Mm-hmm. 00:28:16.532 --> 00:28:21.662 I really would love you to share a little bit about that course with the beautifully 00:28:23.672 --> 00:28:27.842 provocative title, because that really is almost like that next step 00:28:27.842 --> 00:28:31.082 that really helps people to say, well, okay, this makes sense now. 00:28:31.082 --> 00:28:32.012 Where do I start? 00:28:32.732 --> 00:28:35.942 Marilyn: Yeah, so this, this little course, I'll give 00:28:35.942 --> 00:28:37.052 you the title in a minute. 00:28:37.052 --> 00:28:41.642 And it is a provocative title, which I chose with a, a very 00:28:41.642 --> 00:28:43.322 clear intention in mind. 00:28:43.982 --> 00:28:47.942 Um, this came about because. 00:28:49.562 --> 00:28:56.312 I was, I was answering questions about this topic over and over and over again, 00:28:56.822 --> 00:29:01.952 and I finally decided that this was something that needed to be addressed. 00:29:01.952 --> 00:29:10.232 It's a very specific topic, but it covers an awful lot of the problems that people 00:29:10.232 --> 00:29:12.632 are confronting with their sensitive dogs. 00:29:13.242 --> 00:29:15.072 So it is a mini course. 00:29:15.132 --> 00:29:19.632 Um, and so by mini course, I mean, you can go through it fairly 00:29:19.632 --> 00:29:21.402 quickly and it's self-study. 00:29:21.402 --> 00:29:23.982 You can go through it at your own pace. 00:29:23.982 --> 00:29:25.332 You have access to it. 00:29:25.632 --> 00:29:28.392 Once you buy it, you, you have access to it forever. 00:29:28.422 --> 00:29:29.562 It never expires. 00:29:30.072 --> 00:29:38.082 So the title of this course is Stop Desensitizing Your Sensitive Dog. 00:29:40.967 --> 00:29:42.287 I just could not love it more. 00:29:42.857 --> 00:29:43.307 I know. 00:29:44.357 --> 00:29:47.987 So let me, let me just say a little bit about desensitization. 00:29:49.097 --> 00:29:51.137 I'm not opposed to it. 00:29:51.137 --> 00:29:52.337 It's not a bad thing. 00:29:53.267 --> 00:29:54.977 It is a tool. 00:29:55.157 --> 00:30:01.247 It is an effective tool that can be used in behavior modification, but 00:30:01.247 --> 00:30:05.657 just like any tool, if it's used inappropriately, it's gonna do damage. 00:30:07.277 --> 00:30:10.967 If you need a screwdriver and you use a hammer, you're gonna make a mess. 00:30:11.867 --> 00:30:19.517 So with with desensitization, it is often recommended as like the go-to 00:30:19.517 --> 00:30:27.527 solution for any dogs that are reactive, sensitive, you know, hyper aroused, all 00:30:27.527 --> 00:30:30.647 of those things, just desensitize the dog. 00:30:31.967 --> 00:30:34.157 But nobody tells you how to do it. 00:30:34.397 --> 00:30:39.167 It's actually a very complex process and people who are 00:30:39.167 --> 00:30:43.367 trained and who are professionals. 00:30:44.462 --> 00:30:51.992 In the area of behavior modification or behavior analysis or psychology, 00:30:52.082 --> 00:30:55.622 you know, all of those fields, people who are professional and who 00:30:55.622 --> 00:30:58.112 are trained know how to use this. 00:30:58.142 --> 00:31:05.462 It involves collecting a lot of data, and it involves using that data to 00:31:05.462 --> 00:31:08.192 determine the next step in the process. 00:31:08.192 --> 00:31:09.272 But people don't do that. 00:31:10.382 --> 00:31:15.872 Do they, when they desensitize, they just grab a, a pouch of treats. 00:31:16.232 --> 00:31:17.642 They take the dog out. 00:31:17.852 --> 00:31:19.862 That's into the, the situation. 00:31:19.862 --> 00:31:24.062 It scares the dog, and the dog gets frantic and over arousing. 00:31:24.062 --> 00:31:27.602 They start feeding the dog treats and they think they're desensitizing the dog. 00:31:29.492 --> 00:31:31.532 That's not what desensitization is. 00:31:32.402 --> 00:31:37.802 So I'm telling people who have a sensitive dog to stop doing that. 00:31:39.197 --> 00:31:40.457 Just stop doing that. 00:31:40.907 --> 00:31:44.267 But you know, it, it's easy for me to say, stop doing that. 00:31:44.267 --> 00:31:46.782 And they're gonna go, well, what, what am what to do? 00:31:47.082 --> 00:31:48.857 You know, what am I supposed to do? 00:31:49.157 --> 00:31:51.437 So that, and that's a good question. 00:31:51.767 --> 00:31:55.907 So that's why I created this little mini course. 00:31:56.782 --> 00:32:02.212 And, um, it starts with it, it has three main pillars to it. 00:32:02.242 --> 00:32:06.562 We start with bringing the dog into a more relaxed state, 00:32:06.592 --> 00:32:09.352 and that's, that is a process. 00:32:09.592 --> 00:32:13.342 You know, it has to do with co-regulation, which means that 00:32:13.342 --> 00:32:15.562 the dog is mirroring your feeling. 00:32:15.562 --> 00:32:20.782 So it has to do with getting yourself settled down first and then creating. 00:32:20.782 --> 00:32:22.912 We talked about predictability before that. 00:32:23.597 --> 00:32:26.177 Powerful for sensitive dogs. 00:32:26.237 --> 00:32:35.417 And then it talks about the, gives you like an overall view of the system of 00:32:35.807 --> 00:32:42.197 not bringing the dog into situations that they're scared of and then feeding 00:32:42.197 --> 00:32:47.237 them treats and think, thinking that that's gonna make the fear go away, but. 00:32:48.002 --> 00:32:53.822 It's taking a dog that is relaxed and then has a sense of predictability about 00:32:53.822 --> 00:33:02.072 the world around him, and then gradually increasing his capacity, the capacity 00:33:02.072 --> 00:33:07.892 of his nervous system to process things that are new and different around him. 00:33:08.492 --> 00:33:10.442 And that's a process. 00:33:10.652 --> 00:33:11.942 It's not a quick fix. 00:33:11.942 --> 00:33:13.592 It doesn't happen fast. 00:33:13.952 --> 00:33:17.882 It happens gradually and consistently over time. 00:33:18.362 --> 00:33:23.912 But that's the, you know, that's the outline of that little mini 00:33:23.912 --> 00:33:26.012 course, and we can make it available. 00:33:26.012 --> 00:33:28.607 I know you're gonna put a link in the show notes, link 00:33:28.607 --> 00:33:29.128 Anke: in the show notes. 00:33:29.282 --> 00:33:30.992 So if you're watching this, listening to this, 00:33:31.292 --> 00:33:31.502 Marilyn: yeah. 00:33:31.502 --> 00:33:31.927 You know, it's. 00:33:34.877 --> 00:33:39.917 It's, it, it's not, uh, a highly expensive course, but it, it does 00:33:39.917 --> 00:33:41.747 have a lot of valuable content. 00:33:41.747 --> 00:33:44.147 So it, it does have a price. 00:33:44.147 --> 00:33:47.357 It's only $97 us. 00:33:47.867 --> 00:33:54.527 Um, you have access to it forever, and as soon as you purchase the course, you 00:33:54.587 --> 00:33:56.477 immediately can start working on it. 00:33:56.477 --> 00:33:58.727 There's no waiting time at all. 00:33:58.787 --> 00:34:00.917 You can immediately start. 00:34:01.592 --> 00:34:02.342 To work on it. 00:34:02.732 --> 00:34:08.042 And you also, if there's something in it that you have a question about, people 00:34:08.042 --> 00:34:10.472 will sometimes email me with questions. 00:34:10.862 --> 00:34:16.052 And I, I don't, because this is, um, a self-study course, it doesn't come 00:34:16.052 --> 00:34:20.612 with extended email support, but I can certainly answer a question in any. 00:34:22.307 --> 00:34:22.937 I love that. 00:34:23.207 --> 00:34:26.537 Anke: Um, you know, the way you explained it, you know what feels 00:34:26.537 --> 00:34:28.007 so powerful to me about that? 00:34:28.007 --> 00:34:32.207 Is that when you actually address something at the root, when it's not just 00:34:32.207 --> 00:34:35.747 about, okay, how do I stop my dog to bite? 00:34:36.212 --> 00:34:40.742 The mailman in the Anke, you know, it's when it's about increasing 00:34:40.742 --> 00:34:44.282 capacity to deal with new situations. 00:34:45.122 --> 00:34:45.212 Mm-hmm. 00:34:45.452 --> 00:34:48.632 Then it takes care of the mailman and it takes care of the 00:34:48.632 --> 00:34:51.632 neighbor's cat and it takes, you know, like all the things mm-hmm. 00:34:52.592 --> 00:34:53.522 Will settle. 00:34:53.527 --> 00:34:57.692 It's not just like one particular thing that, that it will address. 00:34:57.692 --> 00:34:58.682 Is that correct? 00:34:59.507 --> 00:35:02.177 Marilyn: Uh, absolutely and absolutely. 00:35:02.627 --> 00:35:06.677 Um, and, and I can just quickly tell you, I also have a Covid puppy. 00:35:07.007 --> 00:35:12.317 I, uh, adopted him at 10 weeks in January of 2020. 00:35:12.317 --> 00:35:14.687 Oh, so that tells you. 00:35:16.187 --> 00:35:18.797 That tells you what the first two years of his life were like. 00:35:19.187 --> 00:35:23.297 And one of the things that he did, just, just to kind of respond with an 00:35:23.297 --> 00:35:27.947 example to what you just mentioned, um, one of the things that he did very 00:35:27.947 --> 00:35:33.017 early on is whenever a delivery came to the house, he would get frantic. 00:35:33.677 --> 00:35:36.917 He would go from window to window to window, and he would bark 00:35:36.917 --> 00:35:40.337 and bark and bark and he would just be, be really over aroused. 00:35:41.267 --> 00:35:47.177 So, um, instead of doing the things that, you know, the old style training 00:35:47.177 --> 00:35:52.967 would say is like, cover the windows so he can't see or pull him away, 00:35:52.997 --> 00:35:55.667 or, uh, tell him to sit and stay. 00:35:56.147 --> 00:36:03.857 Instead, I did what, um, what I eventually incorporated into my program because this 00:36:03.857 --> 00:36:07.427 dog radar was, was like my Guinea pig and. 00:36:08.342 --> 00:36:11.312 So I went over to him and I said, what's going on out there? 00:36:11.312 --> 00:36:12.092 What do you see? 00:36:12.092 --> 00:36:17.252 And I just told him that I understood that he felt a little bit worried 00:36:17.252 --> 00:36:20.372 about, you know, this person, and I know that looks different. 00:36:20.372 --> 00:36:25.862 And so I just went through the whole thing of talking to him in 00:36:25.862 --> 00:36:31.922 a way that was tell, letting him know that I understood how he felt. 00:36:32.972 --> 00:36:36.962 And I wasn't telling him not to feel how he felt, but just that I 00:36:36.962 --> 00:36:41.762 hear you, I understand you, and so forth, and let's look, let's watch 00:36:41.762 --> 00:36:43.712 this together and see what happens. 00:36:44.042 --> 00:36:48.782 And the good thing is that the scary thing went away as we watched it. 00:36:48.962 --> 00:36:50.012 You know, it went away. 00:36:50.012 --> 00:36:54.902 There was a big man and he was carrying boxes and you know, all this scary stuff. 00:36:55.262 --> 00:36:58.502 But he was barking and it went away. 00:36:58.892 --> 00:37:00.902 And then I told him he did a good job. 00:37:01.937 --> 00:37:04.007 Thank you for taking care of that problem. 00:37:04.517 --> 00:37:07.757 So it gave, you know, his self-esteem and so forth. 00:37:07.847 --> 00:37:12.617 And what happened over time was that people will say, well, 00:37:12.617 --> 00:37:14.027 didn't the barking get worse? 00:37:14.027 --> 00:37:18.377 Because you were reinforcing that fear, rewarding him for barking, 00:37:19.097 --> 00:37:19.517 Anke: you know? 00:37:19.577 --> 00:37:20.057 Marilyn: Yeah. 00:37:20.117 --> 00:37:21.827 You don't reinforce fear. 00:37:22.097 --> 00:37:25.097 What I was doing was telling him that I knew how he felt 00:37:25.097 --> 00:37:26.687 it and his feelings were okay. 00:37:27.467 --> 00:37:29.177 It was okay to feel the way he felt. 00:37:29.927 --> 00:37:34.667 I was there and I wasn't worried about it myself. 00:37:34.997 --> 00:37:38.447 So there was a little co-regulation going on that he could mirror my feelings, 00:37:38.777 --> 00:37:42.137 but I wasn't telling him that he, he, to stop feeling the way he felt. 00:37:42.497 --> 00:37:42.617 Mm-hmm. 00:37:42.677 --> 00:37:46.667 And what gradually happened over time and where we are now five years later, 00:37:47.327 --> 00:37:52.367 is that when there's a delivery, there are times when he will simply ignore it. 00:37:53.087 --> 00:37:57.017 He might do a couple of little woof, woof, woofs But then he'll 00:37:57.017 --> 00:37:58.577 just settle down and ignore it. 00:37:58.997 --> 00:38:02.357 But sometimes he will go to the window and he will bark and 00:38:02.357 --> 00:38:03.857 I'll go, Hey, what's going on? 00:38:04.007 --> 00:38:09.887 And then he'll come back to wherever I am and he will look at me and I'll say, 00:38:09.947 --> 00:38:11.567 oh, there's somebody out there, right? 00:38:11.567 --> 00:38:12.437 Let, oh, thanks. 00:38:12.437 --> 00:38:13.547 I'm glad you let me know. 00:38:13.757 --> 00:38:14.597 Go check it out. 00:38:14.867 --> 00:38:17.057 And he will go to the window and look at it again. 00:38:17.417 --> 00:38:20.597 But his level of arousal is very. 00:38:21.067 --> 00:38:26.297 relaxed He just gets excited because, oh, there's somebody there, 00:38:26.807 --> 00:38:28.007 there's somebody doing something. 00:38:28.007 --> 00:38:28.637 Look at that. 00:38:28.637 --> 00:38:29.687 Come check this out. 00:38:29.687 --> 00:38:30.047 Mom. 00:38:30.347 --> 00:38:31.067 Do you see this? 00:38:31.067 --> 00:38:32.027 I go, yeah, I see it. 00:38:32.117 --> 00:38:32.897 No big deal. 00:38:33.377 --> 00:38:33.707 Yeah. 00:38:34.157 --> 00:38:40.667 So that's where we are, and that's, that's part of that, that point that 00:38:40.667 --> 00:38:47.297 I made earlier is that we have to let dogs know that we're on their side. 00:38:47.357 --> 00:38:48.917 I, you know, I get it. 00:38:50.237 --> 00:38:52.772 I, I, I know that that feels scary to you. 00:38:52.772 --> 00:38:52.802 Mm. 00:38:53.492 --> 00:38:55.352 Anke: I think that validating the feeling. 00:38:55.352 --> 00:38:58.862 I think it's the same, like we get that, you know, when you are, when 00:38:58.862 --> 00:39:02.282 you are like agitated over something, somebody goes like, oh, it's no big deal. 00:39:02.282 --> 00:39:03.062 Just calm down. 00:39:03.662 --> 00:39:05.252 You're, you are over, you are overreacting. 00:39:05.252 --> 00:39:08.522 You know, like this is like, this is the short way to get you nose punched, 00:39:08.972 --> 00:39:09.092 Marilyn: you know? 00:39:10.262 --> 00:39:10.742 Yeah. 00:39:11.312 --> 00:39:14.312 I imagine if you're angry about something and the person you 00:39:14.312 --> 00:39:16.502 are angry at says Calm down. 00:39:17.147 --> 00:39:17.897 Oh my gosh. 00:39:18.317 --> 00:39:18.677 Yeah. 00:39:18.737 --> 00:39:18.887 You 00:39:18.887 --> 00:39:21.947 Anke: know, it's that invalidation, it's that being 00:39:22.037 --> 00:39:25.037 misunderstood and underestimated. 00:39:25.037 --> 00:39:29.237 I think that's, I mean, we as people, we hated and I think 00:39:29.237 --> 00:39:30.617 we do it to dogs all the time. 00:39:31.307 --> 00:39:31.907 Marilyn: Yes. 00:39:32.297 --> 00:39:32.567 Yeah. 00:39:32.597 --> 00:39:32.897 Yes. 00:39:32.987 --> 00:39:34.007 And we need to stop that. 00:39:34.007 --> 00:39:35.062 And that's why I, I agree. 00:39:35.162 --> 00:39:38.807 Of course, you stop, stop desensitizing your sensitive dogs. 00:39:39.167 --> 00:39:43.277 So anyone who wants to sign up for that, it's, um, it's available. 00:39:43.817 --> 00:39:44.417 Um. 00:39:45.257 --> 00:39:49.157 And I, I think it, it will give you information that 00:39:49.487 --> 00:39:51.017 you didn't know you needed. 00:39:51.377 --> 00:39:51.677 Mm-hmm. 00:39:52.157 --> 00:39:54.527 But when you get it, you'll say, oh my gosh. 00:39:55.007 --> 00:39:57.017 Oh, I wish I had known this. 00:39:57.032 --> 00:39:57.122 Right. 00:39:57.992 --> 00:40:01.412 Anke: Well, so where, you know, where can be, I mean, obviously I'm gonna pop 00:40:01.412 --> 00:40:04.382 the link there, but if somebody wants to get in touch with you, wants somebody 00:40:04.382 --> 00:40:08.132 wants to hire you, want, wants to find out what you know, what are you up to, 00:40:08.432 --> 00:40:10.442 where can people go and connect with you? 00:40:10.592 --> 00:40:14.912 Marilyn: Um, one way is to, um. 00:40:15.842 --> 00:40:17.372 Uh, send me an email. 00:40:17.402 --> 00:40:19.112 My email is, is really simple. 00:40:19.112 --> 00:40:25.322 It's Marilyn, M-A-R-I-L-Y n@marilynmely.com. 00:40:25.322 --> 00:40:27.032 And you can put that in the show notes too. 00:40:27.302 --> 00:40:29.702 Just send me an email, say, I'd like to work with you. 00:40:29.792 --> 00:40:31.982 Here's a little background on what I need. 00:40:31.982 --> 00:40:33.902 And then, you know, we can get together. 00:40:33.932 --> 00:40:36.752 And what I like to do when I work with. 00:40:36.777 --> 00:40:40.527 With someone you know, on, on a specific issue with their dog. 00:40:40.527 --> 00:40:46.707 And we're working together either in my group program or you know, for a, a, 00:40:46.767 --> 00:40:48.957 like a one-off personal support call. 00:40:49.377 --> 00:40:51.057 Uh, I like to talk to them first. 00:40:51.477 --> 00:40:55.017 So we might set up like a quick, you know, 10, 15 minute call. 00:40:55.017 --> 00:40:58.647 Just get on a Zoom call, we'll meet face to face, tell me what 00:40:58.647 --> 00:41:02.037 you need, and then I can tell you if I can support you with that. 00:41:02.067 --> 00:41:04.677 And then we can, you know, decide what the next step is. 00:41:05.552 --> 00:41:05.762 Anke: That makes 00:41:05.762 --> 00:41:05.882 Marilyn: sense. 00:41:05.882 --> 00:41:07.562 So yeah, so send me an email. 00:41:07.892 --> 00:41:11.462 Um, occasionally people will message me. 00:41:11.462 --> 00:41:19.262 I have, um, a Facebook group Dog Wisdom Workshop on Facebook. 00:41:19.352 --> 00:41:21.302 Uh, you can ask to join that group. 00:41:21.752 --> 00:41:25.562 You can, you know, private message me on Facebook. 00:41:26.072 --> 00:41:27.692 That's one way also. 00:41:28.262 --> 00:41:30.212 Um, and then my website is. 00:41:32.117 --> 00:41:34.127 Marilyn mely.com. 00:41:34.577 --> 00:41:42.677 But in order to get to that website, you need to put WW https www in front of it. 00:41:42.677 --> 00:41:45.377 Otherwise it doesn't go anywhere. 00:41:45.932 --> 00:41:48.032 Doesn't go, it doesn't take you where you wanna go. 00:41:48.062 --> 00:41:48.092 Okay. 00:41:49.292 --> 00:41:49.472 Okay. 00:41:49.472 --> 00:41:50.612 We're gonna gonna make that, 00:41:50.822 --> 00:41:51.722 Anke: make that clear. 00:41:51.722 --> 00:41:52.982 So thank you so much. 00:41:53.222 --> 00:41:59.042 This was an absolute delight, and, and I think, uh, anybody with a sensitive 00:41:59.042 --> 00:42:03.602 dog will, you know, will listen to this more than once and, uh, hopefully check 00:42:03.602 --> 00:42:08.252 out your course because these dogs are brilliant teachers and beautiful white 00:42:08.252 --> 00:42:11.012 souls that I think definitely deserve. 00:42:12.932 --> 00:42:16.562 To spend a little time to understand them and to give them what they need. 00:42:16.562 --> 00:42:16.622 Yeah. 00:42:17.732 --> 00:42:18.032 Marilyn: Yeah. 00:42:18.032 --> 00:42:23.132 And I think what most people really, really want is happiness for their dogs. 00:42:24.062 --> 00:42:24.242 Yeah. 00:42:24.242 --> 00:42:28.382 And that's my goal when I work with everybody, is we have to find a way 00:42:28.742 --> 00:42:32.732 to bring these dogs into the state of happiness that they deserve. 00:42:33.812 --> 00:42:36.182 So thank you for inviting. 00:42:36.872 --> 00:42:37.202 Thank you. 00:42:38.237 --> 00:42:39.467 Thanks so much for listening. 00:42:39.987 --> 00:42:44.287 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:42:44.387 --> 00:42:46.167 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:42:46.957 --> 00:42:50.447 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:42:50.877 --> 00:42:56.447 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:42:56.547 --> 00:42:58.917 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:42:58.917 --> 00:43:02.647 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:43:03.067 --> 00:43:04.207 I'd love an introduction. 00:43:04.687 --> 00:43:06.517 Email me at Anke. 00:43:06.787 --> 00:43:11.022 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.