Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who
see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care.
I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.
I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people.
So come and join us for today's conversation.
Anke: Hello and welcome, Marilyn.
I'm super excited to have you here.
Oh, Anke, thank you so much.
I'm really excited to do this.
This is gonna be a lot of fun.
For sure, for sure.
I have no doubts, so let's just dive straight in, let people know
where in this lovely world you are and what's your business with dogs?
Marilyn: Yes.
Yeah, I am in the us I am in Tennessee, um, Dolly Parton country in the East
Tennessee, the, uh, smokey Mountains.
And, uh, I am a transplant from New York State where I grew up until
about 20 years ago when I moved.
To the south.
So that's where I am now and I work online since Covid, I made that pivot.
And I work with people online.
So even though I'm here in beautiful East Tennessee, I can work with people
anywhere in the world, which is a joy.
Anke: I love that.
I love that.
So you've just told me just before, you've been in that game for quite a while.
Mm-hmm.
So what's the changes?
What's the biggest change you've seen since when you started?
Mm-hmm.
Compared to what?
What we're dealing with today.
Marilyn: Yeah, I, I have been fascinated with training dogs
ever since I was a child.
And I started to do it as I was, I, I worked as, as a teacher, that was
my real job for, um, for many years.
I.
And I worked with human children, human students, and dog students simultaneously.
So I started working seriously and professionally with dogs
and people 40, 50 years ago.
That was a long time and.
Back then the, the way we approached teaching dogs and training dogs was
very different from the way it is now.
There are still some remnants of that old, uh, approach.
Those old techniques, there's still hanging around a little bit, but
there's a huge evolution going on.
In the dog world, in how we view dogs and how we look at dogs, and that
is thanks to all of the, not only the, the research that's being done
in universities around the world.
Also in the way that very forward thinking, progressive,
compassionate people are approaching their work with dogs.
And a lot of those people, I feel, some of them I know personally, but
some of them I just follow and I feel as if all of them have been my
mentors in the way I have completely transformed the way I work with dogs.
And what I found, um, I.
When Covid hit and we all had to really do some quick adaptations of how we work.
Um, what I found is I started to talk to people who were not just in my geographic
area, but people all over the world.
And what I discovered was that there was a common thread.
Across the globe of dogs that were distressed, dogs that were traumatized,
dogs that were highly sensitive, and were having a lot of trouble just
functioning in daily life in society.
So I was, I didn't expect to find that because I had worked, been working locally
with, with dogs in my own geographic area.
But as I sat back and thought about what I learned from these people all over the
world and what I had been observing with the dogs that I worked with personally, I.
I saw, yes.
I, I can see that's the piece that was missing when I was
working with these dogs.
I was using an old approach, um, which was still, it was positive.
It was, I mean, we never did anything, uh, aversive or harmful to the dogs.
But it was still addressing those feelings, those big feelings that
dogs were having by trying to change the behavior that was a result of
those feelings instead of really addressing the feelings that were
really at the root of what was going on.
Anke: That makes so much sense.
I'm curious, do you find that that, uh.
Over the years, dogs are more sensitive now.
You know, like, is it, is it that in older days people just didn't kind
of pay that much attention or just intimidated the life out of a dog?
Or, yeah.
Or like, are dogs more exposed to more things or to more like,
stressful situations or, or is that just the perception that dogs seem
to be more, you know, I don't know.
Like I've see, I've read things where it's just like, oh
yeah, there's more dogs with.
Reactivity with kind of behaviors that would stem from some kind of, um, you
know, stressed out stage kind of, you know, so is that, is that getting worse
or is it just that we're noticing it more?
Marilyn: That, that is really the question, isn't it?
That, that really gets to the whole point of, of working with these dogs.
Are they getting worse or are we just noticing it more?
And I'm not sure what, what the answer to that is.
I can tell you what my intuition tells me is going on, but of course.
You know, that's, that's just my feeling about it.
And as the more I talk to people who are caring for these dogs,
the, the more I understand about what's going on with the dog.
So
the, the research that I've seen has.
Enormous percentages of dogs, like I've seen percentages, like 80, 85% of dog
owners who were polled about what their dogs were experiencing, said that their
dogs were reactive or hypersensitive.
That's mind blowing when you think about it, but that's only the people who
were asked and answered the percentage.
So do, do more people answer questionnaires like that?
If the, the question, you know, relates to what they're going through and the ones
who say, nah, that doesn't apply to me.
They don't answer the questionnaire.
So, you know, does that impact the result?
Who, uh, who knows?
But here's what.
I can intuitively sense from the people that I talk to is that
we, we have a society that is.
Changing at such a rapid pace.
You know, there's probably been more change in the last 10 years say
than there was in the last hundred.
Who knows?
I'm just making up those numbers, but just, just to kind of, it's massive.
Get the, the idea across and dogs.
Are animals that don't have access to, you know, understanding technology or
hearing news or, or any of those things.
They are just trying to make sense of the world around them.
And so I, I think it's a, a two-pronged problem.
I think that.
The dogs are struggling to keep up, and some of them have a capacity to do that.
Some of them have more of a.
Of an ability to adapt.
And of course adaptability is key because any, if we can't adapt,
we're not going to survive.
So some of some dogs have the ability to adapt and, and they do okay.
Others struggle to adapt.
They have a more sensitive nervous system.
We know that that's true of people, right?
There is something called highly sensitive person, and that's been demonstrated
and researched and all of that.
And we also know that that high sensitivity applies to animals as well.
So I think the dogs that are naturally highly sensitive, struggle more to
adapt to this fast changing society.
So I think that's one piece of it.
And I think the other piece of it is that the people who are caring for dogs.
Maybe they're adapting to the society changes, but they're not adapting
when it comes to the tools they use to help their dogs, to raise
their dogs, to train their dogs.
They're using outdated methods and beliefs and systems.
To address, um, the sensitivity of a dog that's struggling.
So mm-hmm.
It's kind of like, you know, two opposite forces crashing together.
Anke: Totally.
Marilyn: And, yeah.
Anke: Do you think that also plays a role, uh, now, because
when you think about that, like,
like, like my, my grandpa, right?
He went.
He, he left university and took a job and that was the job he had, right?
So my dad changed two or three times throughout his life.
I can't even count how many times he changed.
Right.
So, I mean, that's probably not helping either.
Like even practically.
When looking how, how much dogs kinda like the routine of
knowing what's gonna happen.
Like our lives are crazier.
Mm-hmm.
There's a lot more irregularity.
It's not like, okay, go to him.
And I actually now reminds me of my Leo, like he hated being left alone, you know?
Mm-hmm.
It was a real big problem until I started going to yoga classes twice a week.
I was working from home, so he was like, sometimes he'd be like
weeks without being alone, and all of a sudden I had to go somewhere
and he never knew what was coming.
Right.
And there he was always on edge.
The moment I was like, okay, every Tuesday, every Thursday,
she grabs this, this mat, and then I know what's gonna happen.
That was the first time I saw him settle down on the sofa when I was
about to leave because he knew.
Mm-hmm.
What was, and I think, do you think that plays a role as well?
Oh,
Marilyn: for sure.
For sure.
Um, it, it, because what you're talking about is predictability.
Yeah.
And are.
Our brains are hardwired for predictability because that keeps us safe.
Yeah.
And that's one of the things that's missing with a, a lot of our traumatized
or sensitive dogs, maybe they come, came from situations where they either had
no predictability, so they never knew what was going to happen next, or the
predictability was there, but it was something sad and dangerous and scary.
Mm-hmm.
so yeah, predictability is huge.
And when I work with traumatized and sensitive dogs, that's one
of the things that we, um, I.
But that's one of the pillars of the program that I use to help them.
And this is a program that I created from scratch.
Hmm.
Because none of the traditional dog training programs were
appropriate for helping dogs.
They were all focused on changing the behavior that you see instead
of looking at the reason for the behavior that we can't see.
That's.
Beneath everything.
So, you know, I looked at what, I actually looked at what therapists
do for humans, and there are, there are a few, um, people who, who.
Have skills in both areas, and they work with dogs, but they also had a
career, or currently have a career as, um, a psychotherapist for humans.
And so the two skills are very closely integrated.
So I looked at that and that's, that's what I based my program
on, because I already knew, I, I knew how to train behaviors.
I've been doing that for decades, so I knew how to do that, but that
wasn't helping the sensitive dog.
So I had to ask what, you know, what can I do for them where they can,
you know, feel, feel safe enough?
I.
To learn because they didn't feel safe.
And that was, that was one of the reasons they couldn't learn.
They were constantly in this fight or flight.
You know, am I, am I safe?
Am I not safe?
What do I have to do?
Do I have to run away?
Do I have to fight it off?
And that's where you get dogs that, you know, explode into this barking,
frantic, you know, hyper arousal because they feel like they have to
make the scary thing go away, and they have to look tough and dangerous.
So, and it looks like aggression.
And people say, why is that dog, you know, my dog isn't aggressive,
but why is he so aggressive?
And well, that, you know, aggressive is something d you know,
aggression is something different.
That dog is just scared.
Anke: Yeah.
Yeah.
Marilyn: So
Anke: I saw that actually with mine.
He got bitten when he was 11 months old.
Yeah.
And he was, you know, and he was trying, and his whole, like, you could
see it in his little, like his whole.
Perception of the world is, well, he had, you know, I found him in the
street, so he knew probably by then that the, the world wasn't that friendly.
Right.
But, um, you know, he was quite happy to approach like, I'm cute
and you know, it, you know, and that dog didn't take that very well.
Right.
And so he was never quite the same after that, you know?
Yeah.
Because that, that sense of safety, that sense of, um, yeah.
It's, it's kind of, there was always that sense of, of dangers and he would
like when there was like a big male dog in confined spaces, but he would be
that little dog that went off, you know, because it was, and you could really see
it, how it was about like, no, no, no, no.
I'm actually scared shitless here and I just want this thing to go away
and this is all I know how to do.
The other one would sort of shrink heat, height, and flower pots.
You know, so he was literally the opposite in a sense because, you know,
he had lived the first few weeks in environments that no dog should, you know?
And it's really interesting to see how that shows up, you know?
Whereas the big girls now, mm-hmm.
They've not ever had anybody threatening that sense of safety in the world.
And it really, mm-hmm.
It's night and day.
So what's a what in your experience, like, or, you know, in your program
or like, what's the, you know, what's one thing about safety or feeling safe
for a dog that you wish people knew?
Marilyn: Ah, yes.
And so what happened with your guy?
I, I can actually relate a similar story and I'll do that in a minute,
but what happened with him is that, as you said, he walked up to the
other dog, like, here I am and I wanna make friends, and the dog bit him.
And so his trust was just shattered.
Anke: Yeah,
Marilyn: and trust is something that is so fragile that once it's
broken, it takes a long time.
I.
To put it back together again.
And sometimes you can't.
And it depends on, it depends on the dog's, uh, nature and personality and
his, you know, his, the way he perceives the world around him and so forth.
Whether he is able to do that.
Some dogs can't and, and some dogs can, but what I wish people knew about
safety, what a, what a great question is.
That feeling safe is something that happens internally in an individual.
You can't teach it.
You can't train it, you can't.
I.
Persuade a dog to feel safe.
So if he's scared of something, you can't talk him out of being scared.
You know, people will try to do that.
Like, oh, it's okay, don't worry.
Don't be scared.
Safety is a felt sensation that is inside the animal.
It comes from a belief, and if they don't believe that the environment around them.
It is not dangerous that there are no threats, that they are free to move about.
And also the other piece of that, of, of feeling safe that's so important is dogs
must know how to find their safe exit.
So if they're in a situation where, um, something scares them.
They have to know how they can escape it, how they can exit,
how they can get away from it.
Because one of the, one of the.
Safest things that we can do to help dogs that feel scared is give them distance
from the thing that would be, that's the first thing that I tell people to do.
If your dog is scared of something, get distance from it.
The dog will tell you when that distance is enough for him.
And it's different for each dog, and it's different in each situation, but you need
to get far away from it and, and what people tend to do often is the opposite.
They will tell the dog, now sit quietly and watch this big
scary thing coming toward you.
It's like, you know, I, I gave this example, uh, to someone not long ago.
So imagine that you're standing on a street corner and you
see a bus coming at you.
You're not gonna stop and think what to do.
You're gonna get outta the way.
But suppose there was somebody standing next to you and said,
now I want you to sit here and I want you to just look at me.
Don't look at that bus.
Just look at me.
And I want you to sit here quietly.
Oh my God.
Does that make any sense?
Are you gonna feel better?
So, um, so I think that.
You know, feeling safe is something that you have to believe.
If you jump out of the way and you go stand, like inside a building,
you go, huh, okay, I feel better now.
I feel safe because you took action.
So when dogs are afraid of something, in order to regain their sense of
safety, they have to feel free to take the action that their automatic
nervous system is telling them to take.
Hmm.
So jumping out of the way of the bus is automatic.
You don't think about that.
So, right.
So the dog has to have the freedom to jump out of the way to find that safe
exit, to know where it is, and knowing where it is helps the dog believe
that he's safe, because if something bad happens, I've got a way out.
I've got a way to be safe, and I know where my safe exit is, and just knowing
it's there, whether they use it or not, but knowing it's there helps.
And the problem that happens with a lot of sensitive dogs out in the
world is that when we take them out in the world, they're on a leash.
We need to use a leash.
We need to keep our dogs safe.
We can't just let them randomly roam wherever because
the world today isn't safe.
30, 40, 50 years ago, it was safe for dogs to do that.
You know, I can remember, I don't ever remember dogs in my family having a fence.
They wandered around, they did what they wanna do, and they came home, you know,
and the neighborhood dogs did that.
We can't let our dogs do that anymore unless we live in a big, open space
in the country, but most of us don't.
So the dogs have to be on a leash, but what does that
leash do for a frightened dog?
It cuts off their freedom to escape.
It makes them feel trapped.
Anke: I actually, you know, actually did that a couple of times because
Leo was literally, what I'd noticed was when we out sort of on the beach
in a wide open space, he was fine.
Yeah, but when it was in the, in the center where we lived in a little narrow
cobbled stone and there was like, you know, and he, and I remember like with
dogs I knew, you know, when people would come across, I would, and he was
like getting like his little tail up and I know he is gonna go for that dog.
I'm like, okay.
And I unclipped his leash.
Because it was pedestrian like there were no cars.
And I also only did it when I knew the dog.
Right?
Yeah.
And, and then he'd be like.
Alright, do, do, do, do, do.
And nothing ever happened.
So, because that was literally, you could see it in his little body.
Like he knew he had agency, like he could run off and,
you know, he was free to move.
So he had no longer had the need to actually, you know,
like launch at that other dog.
It was really, yeah, like, it's so counterintuitive though,
Marilyn: right?
Isn't it though?
Yes.
And, and, and so much of what I tell people to do is counterintuitive.
And, and the reason it is, is because we have been culturally
conditioned our whole lives to believe these, these out of date methods.
And there, you know, they have a system in an order to them.
So we gravitate toward them because it, you know, like this is what we do.
This is how you teach a dog to sit and to stay and to come when called.
Problem is that when you really need the dogs to do those things because there's
potential problem looming in the distance that all of it, it all falls apart.
Yeah.
And
Anke: when they don't trust you enough, they're not gonna come when
it's, you know, when it's like,
Marilyn: yeah.
And if they're, if they're scared, they're gonna automatically do
what they need to do to feel safe.
And sometimes what they do puts them in harm's way even more.
And that's why we, we, we really need to protect them.
Yeah.
So.
You know that it, it can be a conflicting situation, but I
think the bottom line is that.
In order to work with a sensitive dog, you have to create an environment
or a context or a circumstance where that dog knows he's safe and
knows that he has an escape route.
And whether that's working with him inside your home or in your backyard,
or in a safe place where the dog feels relaxed, that's where you need to start.
And the mistake that people make is that.
They put the dog into the triggering situation, figuring that that's
where they're going to teach the dog.
But the thing is, the dog's, the dog's learning brain is shut down
when he's in fight or flight.
He can't think.
And he, that's the same us, isn't it?
Not that he, he's not being difficult or stubborn.
And that's a mistake that some people make own, not, not because they're unkind, but
just because they can't figure it out.
Hmm.
They're missing a piece of information.
So if they think, you know, the dog is just being difficult, disobedient,
stubborn, but that's not it at all.
Anke: I think, do you find that?
'cause that's something that I've heard, you know, or like this,
oh, he does that on purpose.
Like he does that to peeve me off or he's being defiant or like, you know,
that whole disobedient as if the dog.
Had some secret agenda there, you know, to make your life difficult.
And I've never seen it like that, but I've taken a lot of like
criticism before, not being strict with my sensitive dogs, right?
Because I think, you know, well the last thing you need if you
are already feeling unsafe is somebody who being harsh with you.
Like that made no sense to me.
Marilyn: Yeah.
There will always be critics who are, who think they know more
than you do about your own dog.
Anke: Right.
I'm just paying.
You're gonna get loaded.
Oh, they're,
Marilyn: they're always there and, you know, we just have to live with them,
but we also have to recognize that they don't have all the information.
Yeah.
That they're, you know, the, and, and.
Uh, you know, basically it's like, thanks, thanks, but no thanks,
you know, that kind of thing.
Um, but, and I always tell people, your intuition is your best guide.
Mm-hmm.
You do what your, your gut, because your, your heart has its own intelligence.
Yeah.
And if your heart is telling you that this is the right thing to
do for your dog, it doesn't matter what anybody else is telling you.
Yeah.
Even me.
If I tell you something that your heart doesn't, uh, align
with, don't listen to me.
But
Anke: that's, that, that requires quite a level of sort of confidence
in your own judgment, you know?
Yeah.
And, and it's, uh, yeah.
I think that's that whole journey that I've been on as a, you know,
well, like, okay, I want, all of a sudden my little street dogs,
I, all of a sudden I had dogs.
Oh.
You know, so I've always wanted to, but they did come at, you know,
when they happened to cross my path and this whole advocacy piece.
Has been the journey, right?
To go from like, yes, I don't know.
You know, other people know better than I do to going mm-hmm.
No, no, no, no.
I will look at my dog.
Yeah.
My dog is the one who knows.
You know?
I think that's been quite a journey.
Marilyn: No one except you has the relationship with your dog that
gives you the information you need.
You have access to information that nobody else does.
Anke: Yeah.
Marilyn: So you, you need to use it and, and I think you're right, it does
take a certain confidence and people, people do feel a little intimidated
and they do think well, because I don't really know for sure what the answer is.
Then that other person must know more than I do.
Anke: Yeah, it's, but that's not true.
Think it's, it's, no, it's not true.
And, but I think it is typical, like in all areas of life really, so.
Mm-hmm.
I really would love you to share a little bit about that course with the beautifully
provocative title, because that really is almost like that next step
that really helps people to say, well, okay, this makes sense now.
Where do I start?
Marilyn: Yeah, so this, this little course, I'll give
you the title in a minute.
And it is a provocative title, which I chose with a, a very
clear intention in mind.
Um, this came about because.
I was, I was answering questions about this topic over and over and over again,
and I finally decided that this was something that needed to be addressed.
It's a very specific topic, but it covers an awful lot of the problems that people
are confronting with their sensitive dogs.
So it is a mini course.
Um, and so by mini course, I mean, you can go through it fairly
quickly and it's self-study.
You can go through it at your own pace.
You have access to it.
Once you buy it, you, you have access to it forever.
It never expires.
So the title of this course is Stop Desensitizing Your Sensitive Dog.
I just could not love it more.
I know.
So let me, let me just say a little bit about desensitization.
I'm not opposed to it.
It's not a bad thing.
It is a tool.
It is an effective tool that can be used in behavior modification, but
just like any tool, if it's used inappropriately, it's gonna do damage.
If you need a screwdriver and you use a hammer, you're gonna make a mess.
So with with desensitization, it is often recommended as like the go-to
solution for any dogs that are reactive, sensitive, you know, hyper aroused, all
of those things, just desensitize the dog.
But nobody tells you how to do it.
It's actually a very complex process and people who are
trained and who are professionals.
In the area of behavior modification or behavior analysis or psychology,
you know, all of those fields, people who are professional and who
are trained know how to use this.
It involves collecting a lot of data, and it involves using that data to
determine the next step in the process.
But people don't do that.
Do they, when they desensitize, they just grab a, a pouch of treats.
They take the dog out.
That's into the, the situation.
It scares the dog, and the dog gets frantic and over arousing.
They start feeding the dog treats and they think they're desensitizing the dog.
That's not what desensitization is.
So I'm telling people who have a sensitive dog to stop doing that.
Just stop doing that.
But you know, it, it's easy for me to say, stop doing that.
And they're gonna go, well, what, what am what to do?
You know, what am I supposed to do?
So that, and that's a good question.
So that's why I created this little mini course.
And, um, it starts with it, it has three main pillars to it.
We start with bringing the dog into a more relaxed state,
and that's, that is a process.
You know, it has to do with co-regulation, which means that
the dog is mirroring your feeling.
So it has to do with getting yourself settled down first and then creating.
We talked about predictability before that.
Powerful for sensitive dogs.
And then it talks about the, gives you like an overall view of the system of
not bringing the dog into situations that they're scared of and then feeding
them treats and think, thinking that that's gonna make the fear go away, but.
It's taking a dog that is relaxed and then has a sense of predictability about
the world around him, and then gradually increasing his capacity, the capacity
of his nervous system to process things that are new and different around him.
And that's a process.
It's not a quick fix.
It doesn't happen fast.
It happens gradually and consistently over time.
But that's the, you know, that's the outline of that little mini
course, and we can make it available.
I know you're gonna put a link in the show notes, link
Anke: in the show notes.
So if you're watching this, listening to this,
Marilyn: yeah.
You know, it's.
It's, it, it's not, uh, a highly expensive course, but it, it does
have a lot of valuable content.
So it, it does have a price.
It's only $97 us.
Um, you have access to it forever, and as soon as you purchase the course, you
immediately can start working on it.
There's no waiting time at all.
You can immediately start.
To work on it.
And you also, if there's something in it that you have a question about, people
will sometimes email me with questions.
And I, I don't, because this is, um, a self-study course, it doesn't come
with extended email support, but I can certainly answer a question in any.
I love that.
Anke: Um, you know, the way you explained it, you know what feels
so powerful to me about that?
Is that when you actually address something at the root, when it's not just
about, okay, how do I stop my dog to bite?
The mailman in the Anke, you know, it's when it's about increasing
capacity to deal with new situations.
Mm-hmm.
Then it takes care of the mailman and it takes care of the
neighbor's cat and it takes, you know, like all the things mm-hmm.
Will settle.
It's not just like one particular thing that, that it will address.
Is that correct?
Marilyn: Uh, absolutely and absolutely.
Um, and, and I can just quickly tell you, I also have a Covid puppy.
I, uh, adopted him at 10 weeks in January of 2020.
Oh, so that tells you.
That tells you what the first two years of his life were like.
And one of the things that he did, just, just to kind of respond with an
example to what you just mentioned, um, one of the things that he did very
early on is whenever a delivery came to the house, he would get frantic.
He would go from window to window to window, and he would bark
and bark and bark and he would just be, be really over aroused.
So, um, instead of doing the things that, you know, the old style training
would say is like, cover the windows so he can't see or pull him away,
or, uh, tell him to sit and stay.
Instead, I did what, um, what I eventually incorporated into my program because this
dog radar was, was like my Guinea pig and.
So I went over to him and I said, what's going on out there?
What do you see?
And I just told him that I understood that he felt a little bit worried
about, you know, this person, and I know that looks different.
And so I just went through the whole thing of talking to him in
a way that was tell, letting him know that I understood how he felt.
And I wasn't telling him not to feel how he felt, but just that I
hear you, I understand you, and so forth, and let's look, let's watch
this together and see what happens.
And the good thing is that the scary thing went away as we watched it.
You know, it went away.
There was a big man and he was carrying boxes and you know, all this scary stuff.
But he was barking and it went away.
And then I told him he did a good job.
Thank you for taking care of that problem.
So it gave, you know, his self-esteem and so forth.
And what happened over time was that people will say, well,
didn't the barking get worse?
Because you were reinforcing that fear, rewarding him for barking,
Anke: you know?
Marilyn: Yeah.
You don't reinforce fear.
What I was doing was telling him that I knew how he felt
it and his feelings were okay.
It was okay to feel the way he felt.
I was there and I wasn't worried about it myself.
So there was a little co-regulation going on that he could mirror my feelings,
but I wasn't telling him that he, he, to stop feeling the way he felt.
Mm-hmm.
And what gradually happened over time and where we are now five years later,
is that when there's a delivery, there are times when he will simply ignore it.
He might do a couple of little woof, woof, woofs But then he'll
just settle down and ignore it.
But sometimes he will go to the window and he will bark and
I'll go, Hey, what's going on?
And then he'll come back to wherever I am and he will look at me and I'll say,
oh, there's somebody out there, right?
Let, oh, thanks.
I'm glad you let me know.
Go check it out.
And he will go to the window and look at it again.
But his level of arousal is very.
relaxed He just gets excited because, oh, there's somebody there,
there's somebody doing something.
Look at that.
Come check this out.
Mom.
Do you see this?
I go, yeah, I see it.
No big deal.
Yeah.
So that's where we are, and that's, that's part of that, that point that
I made earlier is that we have to let dogs know that we're on their side.
I, you know, I get it.
I, I, I know that that feels scary to you.
Mm.
Anke: I think that validating the feeling.
I think it's the same, like we get that, you know, when you are, when
you are like agitated over something, somebody goes like, oh, it's no big deal.
Just calm down.
You're, you are over, you are overreacting.
You know, like this is like, this is the short way to get you nose punched,
Marilyn: you know?
Yeah.
I imagine if you're angry about something and the person you
are angry at says Calm down.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
You
Anke: know, it's that invalidation, it's that being
misunderstood and underestimated.
I think that's, I mean, we as people, we hated and I think
we do it to dogs all the time.
Marilyn: Yes.
Yeah.
Yes.
And we need to stop that.
And that's why I, I agree.
Of course, you stop, stop desensitizing your sensitive dogs.
So anyone who wants to sign up for that, it's, um, it's available.
Um.
And I, I think it, it will give you information that
you didn't know you needed.
Mm-hmm.
But when you get it, you'll say, oh my gosh.
Oh, I wish I had known this.
Right.
Anke: Well, so where, you know, where can be, I mean, obviously I'm gonna pop
the link there, but if somebody wants to get in touch with you, wants somebody
wants to hire you, want, wants to find out what you know, what are you up to,
where can people go and connect with you?
Marilyn: Um, one way is to, um.
Uh, send me an email.
My email is, is really simple.
It's Marilyn, M-A-R-I-L-Y n@marilynmely.com.
And you can put that in the show notes too.
Just send me an email, say, I'd like to work with you.
Here's a little background on what I need.
And then, you know, we can get together.
And what I like to do when I work with.
With someone you know, on, on a specific issue with their dog.
And we're working together either in my group program or you know, for a, a,
like a one-off personal support call.
Uh, I like to talk to them first.
So we might set up like a quick, you know, 10, 15 minute call.
Just get on a Zoom call, we'll meet face to face, tell me what
you need, and then I can tell you if I can support you with that.
And then we can, you know, decide what the next step is.
Anke: That makes
Marilyn: sense.
So yeah, so send me an email.
Um, occasionally people will message me.
I have, um, a Facebook group Dog Wisdom Workshop on Facebook.
Uh, you can ask to join that group.
You can, you know, private message me on Facebook.
That's one way also.
Um, and then my website is.
Marilyn mely.com.
But in order to get to that website, you need to put WW https www in front of it.
Otherwise it doesn't go anywhere.
Doesn't go, it doesn't take you where you wanna go.
Okay.
We're gonna gonna make that,
Anke: make that clear.
So thank you so much.
This was an absolute delight, and, and I think, uh, anybody with a sensitive
dog will, you know, will listen to this more than once and, uh, hopefully check
out your course because these dogs are brilliant teachers and beautiful white
souls that I think definitely deserve.
To spend a little time to understand them and to give them what they need.
Yeah.
Marilyn: Yeah.
And I think what most people really, really want is happiness for their dogs.
Yeah.
And that's my goal when I work with everybody, is we have to find a way
to bring these dogs into the state of happiness that they deserve.
So thank you for inviting.
Thank you.
Thanks so much for listening.
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That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.