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Each year, half of audiences

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at many arts organizations

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are brand new.

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And, of those,

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over 75% never return.

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Are we as a field  over prospecting but under retaining?

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and what needs to change?

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Welcome to Leading The Way.

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Okay, so let's talk about those first timers

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and how challenging it is
to get them to come back again

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after their first visit.

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Eric, are there moments

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after that first visit that are

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high impact touch points that have a really big impact

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on the likelihood of a first timer returning?

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Stephen, I think that's a really interesting word

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that you use which is "after".

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But actually, there's before 
and during that make a really big impact.

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Why wait until after?

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You come into a venue

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and there's a point where somebody 
welcomes you in, or not.

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And how weird does it feel if

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someone doesn't welcome you into the venue?

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You don't feel connected.
- Totally.

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Think about a 'know before you go' email.

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I think every organization sends some kind

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of pre-attendance communication to audiences but

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rarely are they segmented. 
- Right. 

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Rarely are they speaking to 
knowing full well that they have

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different relationships. They have new, they have

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existing, they have returning audiences attending

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that performance. But rather than tailoring

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information that might be relevant and helpful to

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their particular relationship with the venue,

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they're just sending a kind of blanket information,

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which for some who attend regularly

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is going to feel like:

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"This is the same stuff I see all the time."

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And for others it's going to feel like:

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"But I don't know about this or I have

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specific questions. I may not know where to park.

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I may not know which entrance to use or will you

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have food and drink available?"

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Plant the idea,

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- right? 
- That you are starting a journey with us

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that we're really

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intentional and thoughtful about.

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So it's clear that we need to think really

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carefully about what happens before.

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And yet there is a moment when someone's having their

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first visit and the invitation to come back is

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really, really key.

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If there was one step folks could take

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after a first time visit,

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what would that step be that you think would have the

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greatest impact at changing the

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opportunity for someone to come back?

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To ask soon and quickly to 

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get in front of the follow up.

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You know, later on, are we getting a thank you and a

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welcome back invitation?

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- The timing of that invitation is
really important.

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And this is something we've seen

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in the field.

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This is something we've tested, right? It's not a

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It's not a difficult thing

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to send a follow up email to ask

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an audience member to come back.

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That's a relatively common practice, 
but there's important nuance there

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about the timing of that.

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Oftentimes, that is sent, 
the timing of that communication is sent

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based on the rhythms of our staff,

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not based on the rhythms of our audiences.

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And so when we're talking about that invitation,

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making sure that it is waiting for them 
as soon as they

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pop out their phone, as soon as the performance is

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open and there is a message waiting for them

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right there that is inviting them back, thanking

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them and inviting them back, maybe with an offer

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or whatever the next step that they have

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determined for that audience member is,

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It's not waiting until Monday afternoon when

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the marketing team is sitting down at their desks

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and being like, okay, I have people I now need to

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follow up with who attended over the weekend.

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That's communicating based on our team's rhythms

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rather than the rhythms of our audience members

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and their experiences in our buildings.

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When we talk about

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the dating analogy, it puts our efforts in

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the context of the receiver, which is somebody

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who we are trying to woo.

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And so you asked the question about the next step

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after, but it's all of the prep for the date that

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matters as much. So being able to tell someone

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that I'm wearing a tan

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jacket and I've got readers.

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And we're meeting here and I thought about...

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Exactly. Like I've actually pre-selected a couple

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of things. There's a glass of something on the

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table for you when you arrive.

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There was a marketing director at a really large

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theater company who we used this and came

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screaming up to me at a conference saying,

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"Jill, Jill, Jill, my husband on our first date asked me

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out during the first date for the second."

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So around timing. And so they put seat back cards in

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front that said, Jill, we're so glad you're here

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and here's the invitation that we'd like to make

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to you for the next show. And that came out of a

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task force that they had on their team where they

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were constantly coming up with tactics and ways

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to try to get at this better mouse trap.

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What holds this back from doing these things? So

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like, Brad, you just described it. Like it's sort

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of a staffing thing, right? And we were back in

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the office on Monday, so we'll do it on Monday.

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But why wouldn't we think differently about it?

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Why is that taken over as the norm versus doing

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it on the front end and having it ready to go?

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Well, I think it's about having that intention

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that understands this segment's really important.

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This relationship I have with new audiences is

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really important. This relationship I have with

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someone who I'm really interested in is really

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important. So you prioritize things a little

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differently. You think about it differently. You

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anticipate. You prepare differently. You're not

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reactive to be like, okay, I guess I'll call back

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that person I went out to coffee with last week

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and see what they're up to. Like, if that person

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is a priority to you, you make the effort and the

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energy to talk to them at the right time, to talk

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to them as soon as they arrive.

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One of favorite stories is at a client who has

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implemented this practice. And I was attending

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for the first time as a citizen, as a normal

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person, not as a consultant who's working with

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the-- Not Brad Carlin coming to the show. Just

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Brad Carlin, theater lover.

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And Brad Carlin, theater lover, brought his

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daughter with him to see a show at a client's

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theater. And so in their system, I was showing up

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as a first-time ticket buyer. And we arrived for

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the performance and we had the seat back note.

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It blew my daughter's mind. She looked at it and

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she's like, "Dad, they know who you are."

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Right?

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And it was really fascinating. The family in

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front of us got one too. They looked at it and

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they passed it down and everybody in the group

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was like, "This is so cool." It's a very simple

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gesture that can start to create those really

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lasting impressions that allow us to at least

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reduce the friction of a potential return visit.

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The great thing is for our sector

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is that it's not happening all the time.

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So it's an opportunity?

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It's a huge opportunity because

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how often do you get

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acknowledged in that way?

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You asked a really interesting question,

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which is "Why doesn't this happen?"

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And you said, I mean, the data tells a

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story about the volume of people that are at risk

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in our databases today, right?

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And a big chunk of them are 
first timers on a volume basis.

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The field is seeking new, new, new, new, new and

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retention rates are really low.

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So we've got this big volume of people and all of

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this work, like if we were to change our website

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so that a chatbot came up and said, "Hi, Jill,

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you're new. We're so glad you're coming."

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And said something interesting.
Same thing happened on the phone..

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The pre-event email said,

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"Jill, do you know where to park?"
And then all the steps.

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You do that and if you get, like, what, Brad?

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One percent of them to come back?

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It feels like you've done all this work.

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That's all we've gotten?

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brag on the Houston Ballet, Andrew Edmondson,

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marketing director, for 10 years

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after every single performance.

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He was doing this thing, mechanized it, and they

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saw 10 years of growth in frequency of patron

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return year on year. 
And who sees that kind of 10 year.

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Package growth and size of package growth.

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It's remarkable.

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Took a lot of discipline.

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Discipline is the thing. I actually think about

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Belgrade Theatre in Coventry, who have had the

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discipline of the follow-up immediately after

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that, the postcard, the email, the tactics that

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still direct mail still. Yes, absolutely. Because

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how often do you get something through the mail

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that's for you that's not a bill or a demand? And

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their first time of retention has increased by 10

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percent to like 65 percent.

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And that is well below that average.

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Well, to go back to the dating analogy, it's not

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just a moment in time. Relationships grow because

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we put time and effort into building them.

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So in both of these examples, neither one of these were

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just one thing that got them there. Andrew didn't

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just send out one email immediately after.

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It was event on event, year on year.

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And people see that, and then they start feeling

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more comfortable and want to come again.

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And that connection starts to bloom.

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And you do have to feel successful. It's

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interesting point because actually there are

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moments when you do you look back and go, well,

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three first timers came back again

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and it doesn't feel successful. Right.

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Yeah. But that's the ROI. That's the challenge we

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run into around how to ROI this. Right. And which

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is ultimately why there is hesitancy in

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implementation is because full days, full plates

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within organizations. And they're saying, how can

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I ROI the time on this particular piece of work

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that you're asking me to do?

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And this is where maybe another analogy of

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how do we think

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about the fitness coach?

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Or the dietician who's helping you eat better

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And it's not that I had a salad today at

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lunch and so therefore I will, the ROI on my

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salad tomorrow in my health. It's a good time

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now. Tomorrow. I did it. It was worth the salad

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yesterday. No, the discipline around those

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practices changes the ROI horizon into something

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completely different. That's not about this week.

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That's not even about this season. Right. But

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that is about the decade of good discipline and

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good practice over time that

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generates some of those results.

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So we all at this table are working with clients,

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all of us, and we see the fatigue.

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What are you saying

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to clients right now who say, I don't have the

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time and I don't have the money. What do you say?

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The question to be able to raise this is where

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transparency and collaboration with your

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colleagues to say, hey, I need to move something

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off my plate at this moment in time. And we are

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not good as a sector of saying that because we

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want to do everything we feel in

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the arts. We should do everything.

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That's really hard to say to your leader who you

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feel often most of the time you're disappointing

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80 percent of the time. So I think some of this

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also is about leaders giving permission and

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ensuring that they're clear about where their

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focus would be.

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That's a big step.

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I think there's time to be found within our teams

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and within our structures that doesn't have to

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come from an external source that doesn't have to

259
01:10:54,359 --> 01:10:56,579
come from the implementation of technology,

260
01:10:56,579 --> 01:10:58,819
There are apps. There are tools.

261
01:10:58,819 --> 01:11:01,560
There are capabilities within CRMs. So to tell a

262
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:03,840
client, explore your options around automation

263
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:05,779
that exists. Now, there's loads of automation.

264
01:11:05,779 --> 01:11:07,560
Yes. Require some learning. It's going to require

265
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:10,079
some time to learn these new things. But we often

266
01:11:10,079 --> 01:11:13,659
have untapped capacity within really important

267
01:11:13,659 --> 01:11:15,819
roles within our organization, namely the box

268
01:11:15,819 --> 01:11:18,779
office. Our front lines that the job description

269
01:11:18,779 --> 01:11:22,039
or the job requirements don't exist. They aren't

270
01:11:22,039 --> 01:11:25,420
the same from 1995 or 2000 in terms of the volume

271
01:11:25,420 --> 01:11:28,020
of inbound, right? Inbound communications, people

272
01:11:28,020 --> 01:11:29,920
walking up into the box office or people picking

273
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:31,699
up the phone and needing to call. That has become

274
01:11:31,699 --> 01:11:34,760
a much smaller role. And oftentimes those roles

275
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:37,439
are reactive roles. And if they're not on the

276
01:11:37,439 --> 01:11:40,079
phone in that moment, there's untapped potential

277
01:11:40,079 --> 01:11:42,479
capacity there where if we restructure job

278
01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:44,920
titles, if we restructure positions to say, I

279
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:47,840
have a person who has time, who has skills that

280
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:50,279
maybe I need to develop, but I can steer those

281
01:11:50,279 --> 01:11:51,020
skills in that energy to understand. And that

282
01:11:51,020 --> 01:11:53,119
energy to another part of the business that's

283
01:11:53,119 --> 01:11:56,220
going to free up or add to the capabilities that

284
01:11:56,220 --> 01:11:57,159
I don't currently have.

285
01:11:58,460 --> 01:12:00,600
If you're an organization watching this
and you

286
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:02,619
are not focusing anything on first time or

287
01:12:02,619 --> 01:12:04,939
retention right now, what are the two things that

288
01:12:04,939 --> 01:12:06,819
you must start doing from tomorrow

289
01:12:06,819 --> 01:12:09,859
that will impact this 75% figure?

290
01:12:10,279 --> 01:12:14,720
Hmm. Well, dating analogy, we've got to know who

291
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:17,340
they are so that we can invite them back. 

292
01:12:17,340 --> 01:12:21,100
And we cannot only do that on email. 

293
01:12:21,100 --> 01:12:23,359
Like we cannot only use email 

294
01:12:23,359 --> 01:12:25,079
because it's cheap and cheerful.

295
01:12:25,079 --> 01:12:29,000
It's got to be digital. It's got to be direct mail.

296
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:31,840
And it's got to be curated, right? I mean, Brad,

297
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:35,220
by name, I'd like to invite you back

298
01:12:35,220 --> 01:12:36,979
to something else quickly.

299
01:12:36,979 --> 01:12:41,140
That feels to me as important as anything.

300
01:12:41,539 --> 01:12:44,340
I'm looking at Brad because we just 
were talking about the data.

301
01:12:44,340 --> 01:12:45,300
I mean, to get somebody to

302
01:12:45,300 --> 01:12:46,500
come back within 18 months.

303
01:12:46,699 --> 01:12:49,739
You're breaking the mold, right? You are an

304
01:12:49,739 --> 01:12:52,579
outlier if you're coming back that often. Now,

305
01:12:52,579 --> 01:12:55,659
that doesn't mean we don't think about the timing

306
01:12:55,659 --> 01:12:58,300
of our invitations, right? I may still ask you

307
01:12:58,300 --> 01:13:01,180
for that date, but life may mean that I can't see

308
01:13:01,180 --> 01:13:02,819
you for that amount of time. But that doesn't

309
01:13:02,819 --> 01:13:04,479
mean I'm waiting until that to get that

310
01:13:04,479 --> 01:13:06,340
commitment from you about when I'm going to see

311
01:13:06,340 --> 01:13:08,220
you next. We'll keep asking. We'll keep asking.

312
01:13:08,220 --> 01:13:09,800
And that's, I think, the important thing in terms

313
01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:11,579
of the tactical stuff is thinking about your

314
01:13:11,579 --> 01:13:13,920
rapid response and then to think about your

315
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:16,600
follow up. The rapid response, how close can you

316
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:18,520
get that to the moment that that curtain comes

317
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:19,800
down for that invitation for

318
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:21,279
the second date to take place?

319
01:13:21,279 --> 01:13:24,840
And to already have it planned when the follow up

320
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:26,119
is going to take place

321
01:13:26,119 --> 01:13:28,140
ideally through another channel, right?

322
01:13:28,140 --> 01:13:29,500
So that it isn't all email so

323
01:13:29,500 --> 01:13:32,520
that I know I'm going to rapid response
an email right away,

324
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:35,640
and when 99% don't respond, I know

325
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:37,659
already know what the next step is going to be

326
01:13:37,659 --> 01:13:39,539
when it's happening and through a different channel.

327
01:13:39,539 --> 01:13:41,239
We have data that tells us we've got a

328
01:13:41,239 --> 01:13:43,600
pretty tight window to get them back if we're

329
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:45,520
going to get them back to get them to say yes.

330
01:13:45,739 --> 01:13:48,119
Not necessarily when that event is going to be.

331
01:13:48,119 --> 01:13:50,920
We've got about six months after their first

332
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:53,260
attendance in order to have any real shot to get

333
01:13:53,260 --> 01:13:55,800
them back. After that, the response rates get

334
01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:59,000
really flat. So we have a window that we need to

335
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:01,079
be thinking actively in that time.

336
01:14:01,079 --> 01:14:02,899
How am I making those invitations?

337
01:14:02,899 --> 01:14:04,359
What channels and how frequently?

338
01:14:04,359 --> 01:14:06,520
I want to add something that I think gets to this

339
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:09,159
point about before the visit, which is for you to

340
01:14:09,159 --> 01:14:11,899
gather your patron services team, your front of

341
01:14:11,899 --> 01:14:14,619
house team and sit together and imagine the

342
01:14:14,619 --> 01:14:16,520
experience of a customer for the first time.

343
01:14:16,819 --> 01:14:19,560
Every touch point, every interaction, every experience

344
01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:22,260
and how that can be optimized for that

345
01:14:22,260 --> 01:14:24,380
welcome and that first experience.

346
01:14:24,380 --> 01:14:27,479
We are we all know what it's like 
to visit a venue, a theater

347
01:14:27,479 --> 01:14:29,579
or go to a restaurant wherever it would be.

348
01:14:29,579 --> 01:14:32,880
And we know those rubs and friction points.

349
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:35,739
So let's sit together and identify them and work through

350
01:14:35,739 --> 01:14:38,239
one by one about how we can make that experience

351
01:14:38,239 --> 01:14:41,479
a little bit better, a little bit more magic that

352
01:14:41,479 --> 01:14:43,640
will hopefully help make that experience prefect.

353
01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:45,460
I love that. It goes back to a 

354
01:14:45,460 --> 01:14:49,239
conversation you and I had years ago 
with Fred Reichheld

355
01:14:49,239 --> 01:14:51,199
about the net promoter scoring system.

356
01:14:51,399 --> 01:14:52,779
And remember these episodes.

357
01:14:52,779 --> 01:14:54,439
That's what you're talking about.

358
01:14:54,439 --> 01:14:55,939
These episodes that may have

359
01:14:55,939 --> 01:14:58,100
friction points and how you ID them.

360
01:14:58,100 --> 01:14:59,779
I mean, I do think it's important to acknowledge

361
01:14:59,779 --> 01:15:01,720
what those biggest friction points are and then

362
01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:04,020
not to dwell on those that you can't fix.

363
01:15:04,020 --> 01:15:06,340
Most people can't fix the toilets and the car parking

364
01:15:06,340 --> 01:15:08,920
and in a reasonable amount of time or with the

365
01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:10,939
resources that they have. So don't dwell on those

366
01:15:10,939 --> 01:15:13,300
and don't chuck the whole effort out the window

367
01:15:13,300 --> 01:15:14,579
because you're like, well, we can't fix our

368
01:15:14,579 --> 01:15:15,439
toilets or we get no control of our car.

369
01:15:15,479 --> 01:15:17,979
You can say expectations, right? I remember

370
01:15:17,979 --> 01:15:19,840
standing in a queue in a venue and there was just

371
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:22,699
someone being entertaining while everyone queued up.

372
01:15:22,699 --> 01:15:24,539
Just make the experience not like you're

373
01:15:24,539 --> 01:15:26,859
being herded through a cattle pen.

374
01:15:28,460 --> 01:15:30,100
So there's ways.

375
01:15:30,100 --> 01:15:32,359
So there's the experience. And then there's

376
01:15:32,359 --> 01:15:35,180
what's on stage and the impact that programming

377
01:15:35,180 --> 01:15:39,239
has on retention and both First timer retention

378
01:15:39,239 --> 01:15:41,680
and also this point around recency.

379
01:15:42,020 --> 01:15:42,319
There's a,

380
01:15:42,319 --> 01:15:43,739
new methodology that we're talking about.

381
01:15:43,739 --> 01:15:46,479
We're using words called magnets and honey 
for programming.

382
01:15:46,479 --> 01:15:48,159
Can you give us a bit of an introduction

383
01:15:48,159 --> 01:15:50,319
about what those words mean?

384
01:15:50,319 --> 01:15:54,960
And maybe how a magnet or a honey 
piece of programming

385
01:15:54,960 --> 01:15:56,800
can have an impact on retention?

386
01:15:57,199 --> 01:16:02,420
So I think we've really over time, we can't

387
01:16:02,420 --> 01:16:07,460
ignore how vital the role that what we're putting

388
01:16:07,460 --> 01:16:11,199
on our stages, how vital a role the programming

389
01:16:11,199 --> 01:16:13,600
plays in shaping the relationships

390
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:15,180
that we have with audiences.

391
01:16:15,180 --> 01:16:17,979
It is a critical part to understanding

392
01:16:17,979 --> 01:16:20,720
the relationships with our audiences. 
How to drive recency,

393
01:16:20,720 --> 01:16:22,640
how to drive frequency, how to increase

394
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:24,300
customer value over time.

395
01:16:24,659 --> 01:16:26,760
And so we have been

396
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:28,680
working on ways to better

397
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:34,340
understand how we can impact that link

398
01:16:34,340 --> 01:16:37,060
Between what's on our stage
and the relationships that we have.

399
01:16:37,060 --> 01:16:40,979
And sometimes it requires us, you know,

400
01:16:40,979 --> 01:16:43,920
thinking about roles of programming,

401
01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:47,380
just as we would roles within our organizations within

402
01:16:47,380 --> 01:16:50,380
our teams and on stage, right? 
Exactly. Job descriptions.

403
01:16:50,380 --> 01:16:52,560
Or a role as a character in a play, right?

404
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:53,979
This is the role that I play.

405
01:16:54,399 --> 01:16:57,340
Sometimes it's, you know, you get to be as Eric

406
01:16:57,340 --> 01:17:00,300
often was the leading man or other times it's an

407
01:17:00,300 --> 01:17:03,359
it's an ingenue. And other times it's a clown,

408
01:17:03,359 --> 01:17:05,359
right? And so, but you're playing, you're playing

409
01:17:05,359 --> 01:17:09,619
a role and you, you know, what your role is and

410
01:17:09,619 --> 01:17:11,239
how it contributes to the larger narrative.

411
01:17:11,239 --> 01:17:13,000
And we have this in our staff as well, right?

412
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:15,079
Not every person who works within an organization has

413
01:17:15,079 --> 01:17:17,239
the exact same job description. We have tailored

414
01:17:17,239 --> 01:17:20,079
job descriptions to achieve particular outcomes.

415
01:17:20,420 --> 01:17:22,520
How we measure effectiveness, how we measure

416
01:17:22,520 --> 01:17:24,199
performance within our teams.

417
01:17:24,199 --> 01:17:26,060
We wanted to bring that thinking

418
01:17:26,060 --> 01:17:27,640
to programming as well, not by

419
01:17:27,640 --> 01:17:30,520
saying good art, bad art, do less of this art,

420
01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:32,640
more of that art, but rather how do we get really

421
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:34,140
clear about the job descriptions?

422
01:17:34,140 --> 01:17:36,979
Can programming be magnetic? Or is

423
01:17:36,979 --> 01:17:39,439
programming more like honey.

424
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:41,000
And think of a magnet

425
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:42,899
that just if it's programming that is

426
01:17:42,899 --> 01:17:46,119
magnetic, it is pulling people in.

427
01:17:46,119 --> 01:17:48,819
 It is drawing new people in,
It's drawing people in from the

428
01:17:48,819 --> 01:17:51,260
database, but it is it is pulling people in.

429
01:17:51,399 --> 01:17:54,340
And there is different programming that acts more

430
01:17:54,340 --> 01:17:56,960
like honey, which is what is keeping them around,

431
01:17:56,960 --> 01:17:59,859
which is what is making them sticky quite, quite

432
01:17:59,859 --> 01:18:03,239
literally to the organization. And that balance

433
01:18:03,239 --> 01:18:06,079
and understanding the programming that we need both

434
01:18:06,079 --> 01:18:09,300
If we had all magnets, we couldn't sustain.

435
01:18:09,300 --> 01:18:11,100
If we had all sticky honey

436
01:18:11,100 --> 01:18:13,119
programming, we couldn't pay our bills.

437
01:18:13,399 --> 01:18:15,060
So what is the right balance?

438
01:18:15,060 --> 01:18:17,699
What is the right sequencing of this programming

439
01:18:17,699 --> 01:18:21,239
so that programmatic decision makers,
marketing folks and

440
01:18:21,239 --> 01:18:23,199
even fundraising and development professionals

441
01:18:23,199 --> 01:18:26,699
can be speaking the same language about the role

442
01:18:26,699 --> 01:18:29,060
and impact that our programming is going to have.

443
01:18:29,319 --> 01:18:30,800
If we have too many magnets,

444
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:32,539
I imagine there's a revenue correlation

445
01:18:32,539 --> 01:18:34,300
between magnets and honey, right? It sounds to me

446
01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:36,899
It sounds to me as though magnets will be

447
01:18:36,899 --> 01:18:38,779
taking the lion's share of revenue,

448
01:18:38,779 --> 01:18:40,680
and why would I not have a program

449
01:18:40,680 --> 01:18:43,319
full of magnets if that is paying

450
01:18:43,319 --> 01:18:45,659
the bills and covering my expenses?

451
01:18:46,039 --> 01:18:47,079
There is a 

452
01:18:47,079 --> 01:18:49,739
financial element to the way we think about

453
01:18:49,739 --> 01:18:52,600
magnets and honey that runs in a different axis.

454
01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:55,359
So think about magnets and honey as your X axis,

455
01:18:55,359 --> 01:18:58,260
right? And we're just looking at the draw in the

456
01:18:58,260 --> 01:19:00,680
audience. How much of this is about drawing new

457
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:03,060
people in versus how much of the of this is about

458
01:19:03,060 --> 01:19:05,260
programmatic stickiness within that programming.

459
01:19:05,659 --> 01:19:07,760
So think about your four quadrants. You've got magnetic

460
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:09,600
programming that may have low financial impact,

461
01:19:10,020 --> 01:19:11,640
Right? Think about programming, for example,

462
01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:14,300
that's targeted towards very particular

463
01:19:14,300 --> 01:19:17,659
communities or is outreach or participation focused.

464
01:19:17,659 --> 01:19:20,119
It is not actually about driving revenues,

465
01:19:20,119 --> 01:19:21,800
but it is about engaging new people.

466
01:19:21,800 --> 01:19:24,079
- It is still be magnetic, yeah. 
- Can still be magnetic,

467
01:19:24,079 --> 01:19:26,100
but it's not actually about the money.

468
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:27,979
And you can have up here in the top right

469
01:19:27,979 --> 01:19:29,600
something that's actually very sticky.

470
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:30,859
That is your bread and butter.

471
01:19:30,859 --> 01:19:31,880
That is a show - I know for my..

472
01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:34,199
my many of my UK clients, for example, this is

473
01:19:34,199 --> 01:19:37,420
like where Panto sits. Yeah, Panto has high,

474
01:19:37,420 --> 01:19:39,960
high, high levels of loyalty and stickiness and

475
01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:42,180
doesn't have quite the new defile attraction that

476
01:19:42,180 --> 01:19:45,960
we see in other programming, 
but it is vital financially.

477
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:48,060
And so it sits over here in this quadrant,

478
01:19:48,060 --> 01:19:49,859
which is super sticky, but also has a

479
01:19:49,859 --> 01:19:51,039
high financial score. So just because something

480
01:19:51,279 --> 01:19:53,479
So just because something is magnetic,

481
01:19:53,479 --> 01:19:55,579
doesn't actually mean it's the big blockbuster

482
01:19:55,579 --> 01:19:57,520
that's going to bring in loads of money.

483
01:19:57,520 --> 01:19:59,199
We have to kind of balance these things

484
01:19:59,199 --> 01:20:02,380
out and understand, you know, where is it about

485
01:20:02,380 --> 01:20:05,760
the value of the total attendance versus the

486
01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:08,600
value of the audiences in the households and

487
01:20:08,600 --> 01:20:10,199
relationships that are attending.

488
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:13,720
And we often say you can blockbuster yourself to death,

489
01:20:13,840 --> 01:20:16,880
And so we would be perhaps making a lot of one

490
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:20,460
and done income, but not with the recurring

491
01:20:20,460 --> 01:20:22,199
revenue that is sustaining.

492
01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:24,899
I always think of that as sugar rushes. Like we

493
01:20:24,899 --> 01:20:27,659
get these like jolts of something, but then we

494
01:20:27,659 --> 01:20:31,060
crash afterwards. So it's a little bit of how do

495
01:20:31,060 --> 01:20:32,979
you get some sustained calories.

496
01:20:32,979 --> 01:20:34,399
We have data on this.

497
01:20:34,399 --> 01:20:37,260
So what is the long term impact of. How do you

498
01:20:37,260 --> 01:20:38,579
blockbuster yourself to death?

499
01:20:38,579 --> 01:20:40,260
Why does that happen?

500
01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:42,140
This is a fundamental question for the field.

501
01:20:42,140 --> 01:20:43,140
Yeah, actually.

502
01:20:44,859 --> 01:20:48,800
Do you prior.. Do you care? Do you think you need

503
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:54,140
as you pencil it out recurring income or not?

504
01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:58,079
And if you're only doing annual budgeting, then

505
01:20:58,079 --> 01:21:02,199
it may disguise your need for recurring revenue,

506
01:21:02,199 --> 01:21:06,340
because if we have recurring revenue, the

507
01:21:06,340 --> 01:21:10,600
cost of maintenance and the cost of delivering on

508
01:21:10,600 --> 01:21:13,479
what the business produces decreases.

509
01:21:15,159 --> 01:21:18,279
And that is the promise in recurring revenue.

510
01:21:18,579 --> 01:21:22,939
When every dollar pound euro matters right now,

511
01:21:23,739 --> 01:21:26,760
my only metric of success right now is that figure.

512
01:21:26,840 --> 01:21:29,260
How can we think about it differently beyond?

513
01:21:29,260 --> 01:21:30,579
"Oh that show didn't hit its revenue goal,

514
01:21:30,579 --> 01:21:31,560
So it's a failure."

515
01:21:31,779 --> 01:21:34,039
This gets to the job description element of this

516
01:21:34,039 --> 01:21:36,640
of this magnets and honey framework.

517
01:21:37,819 --> 01:21:40,659
If we treat every show with having the same job

518
01:21:40,659 --> 01:21:43,479
description and therefore having the same metrics

519
01:21:43,479 --> 01:21:45,640
for performance evaluation right for success,

520
01:21:46,380 --> 01:21:48,020
then we're going to find ourselves in this in

521
01:21:48,020 --> 01:21:49,859
this situation where more honey driven

522
01:21:49,859 --> 01:21:52,359
programming is being held to the same standard of

523
01:21:52,359 --> 01:21:54,779
sort of success or failure as more magnetic

524
01:21:54,779 --> 01:21:58,359
programming, which we know just demoralizes teams

525
01:21:58,359 --> 01:22:00,539
and makes us feel like we're failing on these

526
01:22:00,539 --> 01:22:03,199
shows rather than understanding that the value of

527
01:22:03,199 --> 01:22:05,380
those shows, we have to look at their success

528
01:22:05,380 --> 01:22:07,659
differently. And it has to be about what

529
01:22:07,659 --> 01:22:10,380
relationships is it fueling and sustaining when

530
01:22:10,380 --> 01:22:12,859
we study this kind of behavior, when we study

531
01:22:12,859 --> 01:22:15,079
these audiences that are attending magnetic shows

532
01:22:15,079 --> 01:22:18,000
versus honey shows and things in between. What we

533
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:20,060
find in the honey shows are much higher

534
01:22:20,060 --> 01:22:22,579
proportions of donors, much higher proportions of

535
01:22:22,579 --> 01:22:25,500
members in the UK and in Canada, and much higher

536
01:22:25,500 --> 01:22:29,399
proportions of subscribers 
in the United States in particular.

537
01:22:29,399 --> 01:22:32,840
Those relationships? - way more valuable.

538
01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:35,340
They are contributing far more to the

539
01:22:35,340 --> 01:22:37,159
bottom line of that organization on a per

540
01:22:37,159 --> 01:22:39,819
household basis than what they are doing to fill

541
01:22:39,819 --> 01:22:42,500
the number of seats or to pay that highest per

542
01:22:42,500 --> 01:22:44,079
cap on that particular show.

543
01:22:44,079 --> 01:22:47,659
So when we reposition 
to understand that the job description

544
01:22:47,659 --> 01:22:50,420
of honey programming is to actually fuel to

545
01:22:50,420 --> 01:22:52,579
provide some sugar, we need some calories to

546
01:22:52,579 --> 01:22:55,279
provide some sustenance to those relationships

547
01:22:55,279 --> 01:22:57,920
that are more valuable beyond. Did we get to 70

548
01:22:57,920 --> 01:23:00,180
percent capacity sold or not? And if we didn't,

549
01:23:00,180 --> 01:23:03,140
it's a failure is a really important distinction.

550
01:23:03,140 --> 01:23:05,079
It requires some

551
01:23:05,079 --> 01:23:09,600
balance to get at this intersectionality of

552
01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:12,479
patrons that we need to sustain the future of the field.

553
01:23:12,479 --> 01:23:14,520
We need the programming 
that is good for second dates.

554
01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:16,979
That's lower risk, lower cost.

555
01:23:16,979 --> 01:23:19,380
We need to create the opportunities throughout the year.

556
01:23:19,380 --> 01:23:21,140
If everything was only four things a year and they

557
01:23:21,140 --> 01:23:23,840
all needed to be a big blockbuster, there just

558
01:23:23,840 --> 01:23:27,859
isn't enough entry points or invitations for

559
01:23:27,859 --> 01:23:30,479
folks to get a little closer. Learn a little more

560
01:23:30,479 --> 01:23:33,560
about what you do. Get some interest in maybe

561
01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:35,920
what might be your more mission oriented

562
01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:38,159
programming that the artistic team is really

563
01:23:38,159 --> 01:23:40,560
passionate about and is important, but oftentimes

564
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:41,640
doesn't have the same kind

565
01:23:41,640 --> 01:23:42,739
of draw as more magnetically.

566
01:23:42,760 --> 01:23:45,760
How do we get the artistic teams on board here?

567
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:47,319
Because this might to them sound

568
01:23:47,319 --> 01:23:49,300
a bit like programming by data.

569
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:52,319
We have got to get artistic directors at the

570
01:23:52,319 --> 01:23:55,239
table in this conversation at the beginning.

571
01:23:55,500 --> 01:23:56,420
Today,

572
01:23:56,420 --> 01:23:59,239
artistic and executive leaders have to be

573
01:23:59,239 --> 01:24:02,380
partners in this. And I actually see more

574
01:24:02,380 --> 01:24:05,779
awareness of that on the artistic side than I did

575
01:24:05,779 --> 01:24:09,039
20 years ago or 30 years ago, for sure.

576
01:24:09,039 --> 01:24:12,579
There's not a recipe here. There's not an algorithm about

577
01:24:12,579 --> 01:24:17,380
programming. This still, I'm sorry. And I'll

578
01:24:17,380 --> 01:24:19,659
plant my flag to say AI is not going to program

579
01:24:19,659 --> 01:24:23,479
our seasons. It is still going to take artistic

580
01:24:23,479 --> 01:24:28,680
professionals and artistic leaders to both create

581
01:24:28,680 --> 01:24:32,520
and curate the programming that is going to

582
01:24:32,520 --> 01:24:34,239
sustain our organizations and the relationships

583
01:24:34,239 --> 01:24:37,260
that we have. There is no magic kind of math here

584
01:24:37,260 --> 01:24:39,600
that we can bring. 
- Isn't that wonderful?

585
01:24:39,600 --> 01:24:40,399
And it is wonderful because

586
01:24:40,399 --> 01:24:43,300
that is the soul of the organizations that we

587
01:24:43,300 --> 01:24:46,199
work with. And yet there can be strategy.

588
01:24:46,199 --> 01:24:48,520
There can be collaboration.

589
01:24:48,520 --> 01:24:51,340
There can be shared vocabulary across teams.

590
01:24:51,340 --> 01:24:52,600
And so that is where

591
01:24:52,600 --> 01:24:54,760
this framework and these job descriptions and

592
01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:56,260
this approach that we're talking about can be

593
01:24:56,260 --> 01:24:57,220
really impactful.

594
01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:02,279
Another strategy that impacts this 
which is pricing.

595
01:25:03,439 --> 01:25:06,100
So I wonder about honey and magnets the

596
01:25:06,100 --> 01:25:08,640
things that I've seen there is how we price those

597
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:11,720
products differently too. And I'm wondering how

598
01:25:11,720 --> 01:25:15,319
price comes into play with retention with the

599
01:25:15,319 --> 01:25:17,539
value proposition of these different types of

600
01:25:17,539 --> 01:25:22,119
programming and even with how we can use price to

601
01:25:22,119 --> 01:25:24,899
incentivize return behavior. So lots of different

602
01:25:24,899 --> 01:25:28,100
parts here that require a strategic conversation

603
01:25:28,100 --> 01:25:30,800
that everyone gets very passionate about.

604
01:25:31,319 --> 01:25:33,739
I wonder first of all about how we price these

605
01:25:33,739 --> 01:25:34,920
different types of products and

606
01:25:34,920 --> 01:25:36,420
what decisions we make around that.

607
01:25:37,000 --> 01:25:41,439
What we've noticed is that let's just stick with

608
01:25:41,439 --> 01:25:44,279
more kind of honey oriented programming at the

609
01:25:44,279 --> 01:25:46,819
moment where organizations think about that

610
01:25:46,819 --> 01:25:49,460
programming is maybe not having the big massive

611
01:25:49,460 --> 01:25:51,300
attendance and draw that more magnetic

612
01:25:51,300 --> 01:25:54,800
programming would have. And so therefore there is

613
01:25:54,800 --> 01:25:58,000
a an assumption then that well then I must price

614
01:25:58,000 --> 01:26:01,859
this down right in order to give it a give it a

615
01:26:01,859 --> 01:26:03,859
shot of trying to inject a little bit of

616
01:26:03,859 --> 01:26:08,199
magnetism into my my my lovely Colorado artisanal

617
01:26:08,199 --> 01:26:10,500
honey right that I've that I've that I've that

618
01:26:10,500 --> 01:26:11,979
have curated for my audiences.

619
01:26:11,979 --> 01:26:12,880
When when in fact

620
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:16,020
when we study this, we're we're missing an

621
01:26:16,020 --> 01:26:18,680
opportunity to optimize revenue amongst really

622
01:26:18,680 --> 01:26:20,399
sticky valuable patrons.

623
01:26:21,079 --> 01:26:21,920
These are some of the

624
01:26:21,920 --> 01:26:24,300
least price sensitive buyers that we have within

625
01:26:24,300 --> 01:26:26,840
our organizations, and if we had just reoriented

626
01:26:26,840 --> 01:26:28,239
that conversation to say

627
01:26:28,239 --> 01:26:30,920
we can be okay with having perhaps

628
01:26:30,920 --> 01:26:33,039
lower volume of attendance,

629
01:26:33,039 --> 01:26:35,640
higher average ticket prices,

630
01:26:35,640 --> 01:26:37,359
because actually the value of those

631
01:26:37,359 --> 01:26:39,460
customers are really important and we can be okay

632
01:26:39,460 --> 01:26:42,239
with that house being 40 50 percent sold and we

633
01:26:42,239 --> 01:26:44,939
can have a higher ATP than the show that we need

634
01:26:44,939 --> 01:26:49,079
to have the higher price higher volume kind of show.

635
01:26:49,079 --> 01:26:51,060
So oftentimes separating those

636
01:26:51,060 --> 01:26:54,279
conversations out which are very emotional,

637
01:26:54,279 --> 01:26:57,060
is really challenging at first. But if we're all on

638
01:26:57,060 --> 01:26:59,079
the same page about the job description of that

639
01:26:59,079 --> 01:27:01,720
show we can live with the fact that a honey show

640
01:27:01,720 --> 01:27:04,180
can have a higher higher average ticket price

641
01:27:04,180 --> 01:27:06,760
than even some of our some of our magnetic shows.

642
01:27:07,159 --> 01:27:09,600
There's also tension in the field.

643
01:27:09,600 --> 01:27:11,939
Mostly the folks we engage with are

644
01:27:11,939 --> 01:27:14,060
charitable or nonprofit organizations. And so

645
01:27:14,060 --> 01:27:17,500
when we do have a magnet,
the blockbuster kind of magnet,

646
01:27:17,500 --> 01:27:19,960
there is discomfort in

647
01:27:21,279 --> 01:27:23,619
pushing price too high,

648
01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:28,600
in preventing people from attending.

649
01:27:28,739 --> 01:27:33,359
I think we have an obligation for the

650
01:27:33,359 --> 01:27:39,239
institutions that provide and curate creativity

651
01:27:39,239 --> 01:27:43,319
and communities to leverage demand when it exists.

652
01:27:44,020 --> 01:27:46,039
And so the question about how high is too

653
01:27:46,039 --> 01:27:49,520
high like what the price table wants to look like

654
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:51,659
for those blockbusters how many because we

655
01:27:51,659 --> 01:27:55,260
But how high, is too high?

656
01:27:55,260 --> 01:27:58,560
And you look at what Denzel and Jake are

657
01:27:58,560 --> 01:28:01,439
getting on on Broadway right now.

658
01:28:02,039 --> 01:28:05,779
What Hamilton got. Is that too high?

659
01:28:05,779 --> 01:28:07,619
if you're a nonprofit charitable institution.

660
01:28:07,619 --> 01:28:08,680
I think this is where we really

661
01:28:08,680 --> 01:28:10,300
have to make sure that we're using the right data

662
01:28:10,300 --> 01:28:12,300
to help take the emotion out of it,

663
01:28:12,300 --> 01:28:13,779
the politics out of it.

664
01:28:13,779 --> 01:28:15,819
Everything that we can out of it,

665
01:28:15,819 --> 01:28:18,960
so that we can just let's just be led by the data here.

666
01:28:18,960 --> 01:28:21,659
And of course there's strategic implications.

667
01:28:21,659 --> 01:28:23,520
There are values and,

668
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:25,039
audience development objectives

669
01:28:25,039 --> 01:28:27,819
and all of those things that have to 
come into play in that strategy,

670
01:28:27,819 --> 01:28:29,199
but some people don't want to look at data.

671
01:28:29,260 --> 01:28:30,439
Because it doesn't tell the

672
01:28:30,439 --> 01:28:32,100
story that they want to hear.

673
01:28:32,100 --> 01:28:36,619
And yet discounts do attract people. Right. Yeah.

674
01:28:36,619 --> 01:28:39,220
When we do buy subscription by one subscription

675
01:28:39,220 --> 01:28:43,060
get the second one at 50 percent when we say

676
01:28:43,060 --> 01:28:45,960
theater for all and every seats thirty five

677
01:28:45,960 --> 01:28:48,699
dollars more people come.

678
01:28:50,359 --> 01:28:53,680
So they come back there. There it is. There it is.

679
01:28:53,680 --> 01:28:57,279
So it's like we pay, there's trade offs.

680
01:28:57,279 --> 01:28:58,699
So it might be a legitimate

681
01:28:58,699 --> 01:29:03,979
discussion or decision post pandemic to say we

682
01:29:03,979 --> 01:29:08,180
must grow volume and one of the tactics in our

683
01:29:08,180 --> 01:29:11,000
toolkit is to use price to grow volume. But then

684
01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:13,840
going back to our earlier conversation and then

685
01:29:13,840 --> 01:29:15,840
are you prepared to invest in

686
01:29:15,840 --> 01:29:17,939
retention because it's gonna be harder.

687
01:29:18,460 --> 01:29:20,939
I talk about dynamic pricing is not just

688
01:29:20,939 --> 01:29:23,600
being about maximizing revenue on the bottom line

689
01:29:23,600 --> 01:29:25,220
but that that's market research.

690
01:29:25,979 --> 01:29:30,340
That is telling you what the market
is really willing to pay.

691
01:29:30,340 --> 01:29:31,359
That's real data.

692
01:29:31,359 --> 01:29:33,720
That's no longer guessing in the marketing room to say,

693
01:29:33,720 --> 01:29:35,239
well, how much do you think we should charge for

694
01:29:35,239 --> 01:29:36,960
this show? I don't know. I think people will pay

695
01:29:36,960 --> 01:29:39,279
this. I think people will pay that. That's a lot

696
01:29:39,279 --> 01:29:42,880
of what drives those initial decisions in setting

697
01:29:42,880 --> 01:29:46,119
price for product. But with dynamic pricing over

698
01:29:46,119 --> 01:29:48,199
time, applied rigorously, applied with

699
01:29:48,199 --> 01:29:50,239
discipline, and measured with data along the way,

700
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:52,899
you will get real actionable data that says, no,

701
01:29:52,899 --> 01:29:55,880
I know what this market will pay for this

702
01:29:55,880 --> 01:29:58,279
product. We have found a price point, and we can

703
01:29:58,279 --> 01:30:00,960
start much closer to that price point. And

704
01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:03,899
actually generate more meaningful revenue off of

705
01:30:03,899 --> 01:30:06,159
the research that was come from dynamic pricing,

706
01:30:06,159 --> 01:30:08,439
as opposed to the incremental two or three pounds

707
01:30:08,439 --> 01:30:10,840
or the incremental five bucks here or there. It's

708
01:30:10,840 --> 01:30:13,100
the research part of it that I don't think people

709
01:30:13,100 --> 01:30:14,659
are talking enough about. They're just talking

710
01:30:14,659 --> 01:30:16,420
about the sticker shock of

711
01:30:16,420 --> 01:30:18,520
dynamic pricing. And it takes away--

712
01:30:19,600 --> 01:30:21,380
are we charging too much?

713
01:30:21,380 --> 01:30:22,500
It gets that fear,

714
01:30:22,500 --> 01:30:24,739
perhaps, out of that discussion and conversation.

715
01:30:25,020 --> 01:30:27,079
I want to help folks listening that have these

716
01:30:27,079 --> 01:30:28,600
conversations every single day.

717
01:30:28,600 --> 01:30:30,119
My show is not selling,

718
01:30:30,119 --> 01:30:32,199
and therefore, the prices must be too high.

719
01:30:32,199 --> 01:30:34,119
Are there one or two data points that you

720
01:30:34,119 --> 01:30:36,180
would recommend immediately?

721
01:30:36,180 --> 01:30:37,560
If that conversation is happening

722
01:30:37,560 --> 01:30:40,880
and emotions are high, pressure is on.

723
01:30:41,699 --> 01:30:44,220
What can we look at? What one or two data points

724
01:30:44,220 --> 01:30:45,020
can we look at that will

725
01:30:45,020 --> 01:30:46,479
help in this conversation?

726
01:30:46,699 --> 01:30:49,420
How much inventory do you have available at your

727
01:30:49,420 --> 01:30:51,060
lowest price point, and what

728
01:30:51,060 --> 01:30:52,720
is that lowest price point?

729
01:30:53,260 --> 01:30:55,659
That is the best evidence I have seen to be able

730
01:30:55,659 --> 01:30:58,979
to walk clients off a ledge of mass discounting,

731
01:30:59,159 --> 01:31:01,699
which is to go, that's interesting.

732
01:31:01,699 --> 01:31:05,420
You still have 250 tickets for less than $30 available.

733
01:31:05,680 --> 01:31:08,060
Really, we think price is the issue on this show?

734
01:31:08,060 --> 01:31:11,000
Right. Right? Right. There's one.

735
01:31:11,260 --> 01:31:14,880
And what's the sell-through rate at various price points?

736
01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:17,520
Are there places where you can see

737
01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:19,619
patterns or could tweak?

738
01:31:19,619 --> 01:31:22,420
We know often it's about how much

739
01:31:22,420 --> 01:31:23,479
we're investing in

740
01:31:23,479 --> 01:31:25,800
marketing. Invested in marketing.

741
01:31:26,039 --> 01:31:26,460
Yeah. Right.

742
01:31:26,579 --> 01:31:28,859
And that's a trick. It's a really tricky wicket

743
01:31:28,859 --> 01:31:30,319
to get into a conversation,

744
01:31:30,319 --> 01:31:32,279
especially at the last minute.

745
01:31:32,479 --> 01:31:34,500
You can also look at the mix of your buyers,

746
01:31:34,659 --> 01:31:36,899
people who are brand new versus people who are

747
01:31:36,899 --> 01:31:39,960
already in your database. How are you seeing and

748
01:31:39,960 --> 01:31:43,640
attracting to honeys and magnets the people who

749
01:31:43,640 --> 01:31:46,239
have come back before? Are they ignoring it?

750
01:31:46,239 --> 01:31:49,119
Or is it really a bunch of first timers?

751
01:31:49,199 --> 01:31:51,020
I do think this point around marketing investment

752
01:31:51,460 --> 01:31:53,300
is really important, because actually, this makes

753
01:31:53,300 --> 01:31:55,000
a difference to honey and magnets too.

754
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:56,779
And I wonder if there's a moment to just talk about

755
01:31:56,779 --> 01:31:59,699
cost of sale, the differences that that could be

756
01:31:59,699 --> 01:32:01,699
for that, and how also that data point can be

757
01:32:01,699 --> 01:32:04,399
used for pricing. And you're right. It can't be a

758
01:32:04,399 --> 01:32:06,020
metric that can be measured at the end of the

759
01:32:06,020 --> 01:32:07,659
sales cycle. But it's something that we can look

760
01:32:07,659 --> 01:32:11,399
at both on aggregate, by segment, by production.

761
01:32:12,220 --> 01:32:15,420
So in general, a stickier honey show should

762
01:32:15,420 --> 01:32:18,319
have a lower cost of sale. The rationale there is

763
01:32:18,319 --> 01:32:20,779
that because it's honey, we're relying on

764
01:32:20,779 --> 01:32:23,560
existing audiences more. And existing audiences

765
01:32:23,560 --> 01:32:26,479
are less expensive to communicate to and to

766
01:32:26,479 --> 01:32:28,779
convert them into booking.

767
01:32:28,779 --> 01:32:30,979
More magnetic shows are more expensive.

768
01:32:30,979 --> 01:32:32,720
This is where we have to rely upon

769
01:32:32,720 --> 01:32:35,880
channels of media by an advertising and

770
01:32:35,880 --> 01:32:38,520
spend that just require us reaching many, many,

771
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:40,220
many more people so that we can attract and

772
01:32:40,220 --> 01:32:42,119
convert a smaller proportion of them. So that's

773
01:32:42,119 --> 01:32:43,920
where the higher. You can look at cost of sale in

774
01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:46,680
that way. But I want to underscore investment of

775
01:32:46,680 --> 01:32:49,340
not just money, but in time. Because there can be

776
01:32:49,340 --> 01:32:52,260
really different amounts of time investment in

777
01:32:52,260 --> 01:32:54,100
the campaign activity around some of these shows

778
01:32:54,100 --> 01:32:55,819
on a honey show versus a magnet show.

779
01:32:55,819 --> 01:32:56,659
Give an example.

780
01:32:56,659 --> 01:32:58,119
Like what do you-- 
- Some of the easiest things

781
01:32:58,119 --> 01:33:00,000
marketing departments can do on a blockbuster

782
01:33:00,000 --> 01:33:01,720
show is just to buy advertising.

783
01:33:02,779 --> 01:33:05,279
Big cost of sale, low time investment.

784
01:33:05,279 --> 01:33:08,439
You're giving a brief to a firm and saying, here are the

785
01:33:08,439 --> 01:33:10,260
channels, or here's what we want to see. Here's a

786
01:33:10,260 --> 01:33:12,819
lot of money. Go make that TV ad for us.

787
01:33:12,819 --> 01:33:14,079
Go get it out there.

788
01:33:14,079 --> 01:33:15,800
High visibility, high cost,

789
01:33:16,020 --> 01:33:19,020
relative low time investment from the marketing staff.

790
01:33:19,020 --> 01:33:21,159
Meanwhile, communicating to our database

791
01:33:21,159 --> 01:33:24,359
effectively, strategically, at a segmented level,

792
01:33:24,859 --> 01:33:28,319
doesn't cost-- can cost you pennies in money, but

793
01:33:28,319 --> 01:33:32,180
cost you days in time. And so we have to be

794
01:33:32,180 --> 01:33:35,180
thinking about how we're not just investing the

795
01:33:35,180 --> 01:33:38,220
money, but how are we investing the time relative

796
01:33:38,220 --> 01:33:42,859
to where we are in the campaign cycle. So this is

797
01:33:42,859 --> 01:33:45,300
often difficult when, again, circling it back to

798
01:33:45,300 --> 01:33:47,319
these job descriptions, when every show we

799
01:33:47,319 --> 01:33:49,880
approach is having the same job description, we

800
01:33:49,880 --> 01:33:53,000
find ourselves over-investing time or money in

801
01:33:53,000 --> 01:33:56,220
some shows that we shouldn't be, and

802
01:33:56,220 --> 01:33:59,039
under-investing in some other places.

803
01:33:59,140 --> 01:34:01,420
Walking away is one of the hardest things, too.

804
01:34:01,939 --> 01:34:04,819
If you have something that's a blockbuster that

805
01:34:04,819 --> 01:34:06,439
you've thought was a blockbuster, you budgeted

806
01:34:06,439 --> 01:34:09,699
for a blockbuster, maybe you've hoped budgeted

807
01:34:09,699 --> 01:34:12,640
it's a blockbuster, and you've invested money,

808
01:34:13,539 --> 01:34:16,979
and you're watching pricing, and it is not going,

809
01:34:17,960 --> 01:34:19,699
and you just have to have the

810
01:34:19,699 --> 01:34:21,479
intestinal courage to go, OK.

811
01:34:23,579 --> 01:34:29,380
And let it go. And that requires leadership.

812
01:34:30,039 --> 01:34:33,199
And that's another conversation. But sometimes we

813
01:34:33,199 --> 01:34:35,180
have to say, OK, we're moving on.

814
01:34:35,560 --> 01:34:38,140
Well, we're taking for granted the success of

815
01:34:38,140 --> 01:34:40,500
another show in the season, and so I'm not

816
01:34:40,500 --> 01:34:43,119
spending time there. Yes. That one's fine. That

817
01:34:43,119 --> 01:34:45,119
one's totally fine. I'm not spending any time

818
01:34:45,119 --> 01:34:47,600
there. I'm putting all my time in the one that's

819
01:34:47,600 --> 01:34:49,340
really struggling. Yes, right.

820
01:34:49,460 --> 01:34:50,979
And the more honey on it. Exactly.

821
01:34:52,359 --> 01:34:55,939
The ROI of your time and energy on that show that

822
01:34:55,939 --> 01:34:59,880
is struggling is diminished by not putting that

823
01:34:59,880 --> 01:35:01,899
same energy into the show where you could

824
01:35:01,899 --> 01:35:04,399
optimize the success of. And so it's not just

825
01:35:04,399 --> 01:35:05,960
being able to walk away. It's about actually

826
01:35:05,960 --> 01:35:08,300
being able to say, we did what we did. Now

827
01:35:08,300 --> 01:35:10,180
articulate it. Right. Here was the plan. Here's

828
01:35:10,180 --> 01:35:12,119
what we tried. Here were the efforts. And we're

829
01:35:12,119 --> 01:35:13,720
not able to build the demand that we thought.

830
01:35:13,720 --> 01:35:16,300
Right. Let's not just give up on things. Let's

831
01:35:16,300 --> 01:35:18,220
make sure we're clear about what it is we're

832
01:35:18,220 --> 01:35:20,680
going to aim to do. But then we have to pivot to

833
01:35:20,680 --> 01:35:21,500
the thing that's successful.

834
01:35:21,500 --> 01:35:22,619
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

835
01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:24,640
OK, folks, it's time to play a game. We're going

836
01:35:24,640 --> 01:35:27,539
to play save, scrap, or shape. Which will you do?

837
01:35:32,880 --> 01:35:35,579
Welcome to save, scrap, or shape.

838
01:35:36,279 --> 01:35:37,739
 Team, I am going to give you

839
01:35:37,739 --> 01:35:39,899
a selection of retention tactics,

840
01:35:39,899 --> 01:35:41,819
and I want you to decide if you're going

841
01:35:41,819 --> 01:35:44,460
to save it, scrap it, or shape it.

842
01:35:44,840 --> 01:35:45,939
Are you ready for your first one?

843
01:35:46,680 --> 01:35:46,880
Ready.

844
01:35:47,100 --> 01:35:50,819
OK, first retention tactic, the post-show survey.

845
01:35:50,819 --> 01:35:53,220
Will you save, scrap, or shape?

846
01:35:56,720 --> 01:35:58,560
Three, two, one.

847
01:36:00,319 --> 01:36:02,359
Oh, two shapes and a scrap.

848
01:36:02,359 --> 01:36:03,939
Mine's actually shapé..

849
01:36:06,979 --> 01:36:09,100
Why are we shaping the post-show survey?

850
01:36:09,100 --> 01:36:11,380
Well, we're going to 'shapé' our post-show surveys

851
01:36:11,840 --> 01:36:14,979
in a way that allows us to segment.

852
01:36:14,979 --> 01:36:16,180
We need to be able to know

853
01:36:16,180 --> 01:36:17,439
 who are we listening to.

854
01:36:17,439 --> 01:36:18,779
We may want to have different questions

855
01:36:18,779 --> 01:36:19,699
to different segments.

856
01:36:19,699 --> 01:36:21,500
We may want to have different timings

857
01:36:21,500 --> 01:36:23,619
of our surveys, to different segments, depending

858
01:36:23,619 --> 01:36:26,020
on their frequency. So we can't tune our

859
01:36:26,020 --> 01:36:29,020
listening of the responses unless we know who is

860
01:36:29,020 --> 01:36:32,079
actually getting the survey and how are their

861
01:36:32,079 --> 01:36:33,899
questions being responded to differently than

862
01:36:33,899 --> 01:36:36,579
others. So shaping the surveys to include

863
01:36:36,579 --> 01:36:37,899
segmentation, that's important.

864
01:36:38,560 --> 01:36:39,239
OK, Eric.

865
01:36:40,239 --> 01:36:43,479
Shape it by putting it on a diet. Less questions.

866
01:36:43,880 --> 01:36:47,279
Who wants to answer 20 questions after going to a show?

867
01:36:47,279 --> 01:36:50,539
Two or three at the most. Slim it down.

868
01:36:51,039 --> 01:36:52,739
Questions that you can do something with.

869
01:36:52,739 --> 01:36:54,579
Yes, actionable.

870
01:36:54,579 --> 01:36:57,579
Well, so that's my point. Scrap it because if we

871
01:36:57,579 --> 01:37:00,460
go back to the dating analogy, if I've gone out

872
01:37:00,460 --> 01:37:03,180
on a date with you, then the next important thing

873
01:37:03,180 --> 01:37:06,340
for you to ask me is to go out again. 

874
01:37:06,340 --> 01:37:09,380
Not ask me survey questions, not ask me how I did on that

875
01:37:09,380 --> 01:37:11,720
date, but actually ask me out again.

876
01:37:11,720 --> 01:37:15,159
So I don't want a survey. I want an invitation.

877
01:37:15,699 --> 01:37:18,300
Could ours combine? Would you say that you could

878
01:37:18,300 --> 01:37:19,619
maybe scrap it for some

879
01:37:19,619 --> 01:37:20,920
segments, but not all segments?

880
01:37:21,380 --> 01:37:22,020
I think so.

881
01:37:22,100 --> 01:37:25,659
OK, next retention tactic, refer a friend.

882
01:37:26,119 --> 01:37:27,420
Save, scrap, or shape?

883
01:37:32,699 --> 01:37:34,840
Three, two, one.

884
01:37:36,300 --> 01:37:38,760
Some save. Two saves and a shape. Eric, why are

885
01:37:38,760 --> 01:37:40,239
we shaping the refer a friend?

886
01:37:40,539 --> 01:37:42,079
Because we need to be thoughtful about what we're

887
01:37:42,079 --> 01:37:44,579
asking that friend to do. Have we been mindful of

888
01:37:44,579 --> 01:37:47,899
what's the right programmatic ask to bring them

889
01:37:47,899 --> 01:37:50,619
in? What's going to get them the most engaged? So

890
01:37:50,619 --> 01:37:53,199
I think we often descend those out without really

891
01:37:53,199 --> 01:37:55,420
giving it the thought of how to truly bring that

892
01:37:55,420 --> 01:37:59,079
person in. I love the strategy. I wouldn't mind a

893
01:37:59,079 --> 01:38:00,659
little more juge around it.

894
01:38:02,079 --> 01:38:04,199
You're saving, so no juge for you both?

895
01:38:04,199 --> 01:38:06,899
 I love some juge. I'm not anti-juge at all.

896
01:38:06,899 --> 01:38:09,460
In fact, I would rather have our audiences

897
01:38:09,460 --> 01:38:12,699
providing the juge for us. There is no better

898
01:38:12,699 --> 01:38:15,000
marketing. There is nothing better or stronger

899
01:38:15,000 --> 01:38:17,699
than word of mouth in terms of connecting people

900
01:38:17,699 --> 01:38:21,659
and demonstrating their connection and affection

901
01:38:21,659 --> 01:38:23,319
for the work that we're putting on stage,

902
01:38:23,619 --> 01:38:26,500
encouraging it, amplifying it, making it easy,

903
01:38:26,500 --> 01:38:28,340
putting strategy behind it, including--

904
01:38:28,340 --> 01:38:30,500
especially on social media-- this is a really

905
01:38:30,500 --> 01:38:31,800
important tactic to build

906
01:38:31,800 --> 01:38:34,039
authentic connection with audiences.

907
01:38:34,039 --> 01:38:36,619
The power of referral. We do not talk about it

908
01:38:36,619 --> 01:38:39,119
enough as an industry. I remember talking to

909
01:38:39,119 --> 01:38:43,220
Fred Reichheld the founder of NPS, and referral. Our

910
01:38:43,220 --> 01:38:46,920
promoters refer more than anyone else.

911
01:38:46,920 --> 01:38:49,199
And it's an engine for revenue, for

912
01:38:49,199 --> 01:38:51,359
brand, for all kinds of good things.

913
01:38:51,619 --> 01:38:53,340
Well, think about how many people actually bring

914
01:38:53,340 --> 01:38:56,199
someone with them at that event. So rather than

915
01:38:56,199 --> 01:38:58,899
the referral later, the referral in the moment

916
01:38:58,899 --> 01:38:59,880
by bringing them.

917
01:38:59,880 --> 01:39:01,420
This is what we could shape, Eric,

918
01:39:01,420 --> 01:39:03,579
actually. That's where the shape is. We call this

919
01:39:03,579 --> 01:39:05,960
ghost data, right? So there are people who are

920
01:39:05,960 --> 01:39:08,420
buying tickets and then bringing lots of people

921
01:39:08,420 --> 01:39:10,920
with them who we have no data or information on.

922
01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:13,079
If we had clever ways to shape the referral--

923
01:39:13,460 --> 01:39:15,300
because that's, in essence, it's a referral. I'm

924
01:39:15,300 --> 01:39:17,220
buying a ticket for me and my friends. They're

925
01:39:17,220 --> 01:39:18,960
coming along. If we could shape how we're

926
01:39:18,960 --> 01:39:21,000
collecting ghost data, we'd learn more about the

927
01:39:21,000 --> 01:39:21,899
people who are being

928
01:39:21,899 --> 01:39:23,119
referred to our organizations.

929
01:39:23,119 --> 01:39:25,460
I love referrals. I love that

930
01:39:25,460 --> 01:39:27,060
we're having this conversation.

931
01:39:27,060 --> 01:39:30,199
OK, your next retention tactic. Direct mail.

932
01:39:30,199 --> 01:39:32,340
Will you save, scrap, or shape?

933
01:39:35,279 --> 01:39:36,960
Three, two, one.

934
01:39:38,859 --> 01:39:41,460
We are two saves and a shape. So Eric, let's talk

935
01:39:41,460 --> 01:39:41,979
about the shape.

936
01:39:41,979 --> 01:39:43,260
I'm once again the shape in the

937
01:39:43,260 --> 01:39:44,260
middle. Yeah, I like that.

938
01:39:45,100 --> 01:39:47,180
We can always get more effective in terms of the

939
01:39:47,180 --> 01:39:49,060
messaging we're putting on. Direct mail is

940
01:39:49,060 --> 01:39:52,079
awesome, by the way. And I love the research that

941
01:39:52,079 --> 01:39:53,579
says that Gen Zers and

942
01:39:53,579 --> 01:39:56,039
Millennials are like, what is this thing

943
01:39:56,039 --> 01:39:57,399
in my mailbox?!

944
01:39:57,760 --> 01:39:59,300
So let's lean into direct mail.

945
01:39:59,300 --> 01:40:02,439
But each piece needs to have a call to action,

946
01:40:02,439 --> 01:40:05,039
needs to motivate somebody to do something,

947
01:40:05,039 --> 01:40:07,399
and wants them to feel welcome.

948
01:40:07,399 --> 01:40:11,319
So need actually is the wrong word. I want to feel

949
01:40:11,319 --> 01:40:13,979
connected through that. So do all of our pieces.

950
01:40:14,380 --> 01:40:16,819
Do that work to drive action

951
01:40:16,819 --> 01:40:18,340
and make someone feel connected.

952
01:40:18,819 --> 01:40:21,340
My save is much more like about a

953
01:40:21,340 --> 01:40:24,399
protester in the street. We're trying to save the

954
01:40:24,399 --> 01:40:28,039
whales, save the trees. There is oftentimes this

955
01:40:28,039 --> 01:40:30,979
broad-based sentiment that it's all got to go.

956
01:40:31,479 --> 01:40:33,800
That direct mail is old, it's antiquated, it

957
01:40:33,800 --> 01:40:35,579
doesn't work, it's inexpensive. It's not

958
01:40:35,579 --> 01:40:40,239
ecologically friendly. All of this isn't entirely

959
01:40:40,239 --> 01:40:42,479
true. It needs the nuance that you've described.

960
01:40:42,479 --> 01:40:44,180
So I think I was coming from a position of--

961
01:40:44,479 --> 01:40:46,539
Totally. Of course it's about retention, because

962
01:40:46,539 --> 01:40:48,119
we can only mail to people who are in our

963
01:40:48,119 --> 01:40:50,260
database for the most part. We would prefer to

964
01:40:50,260 --> 01:40:52,140
mail to people who are in our database. But there

965
01:40:52,140 --> 01:40:54,199
are other ways. We can utilize print. We can

966
01:40:54,199 --> 01:40:55,960
utilize direct communication in lots of other

967
01:40:55,960 --> 01:40:59,020
ways. But just save it. Don't throw it out. Don't

968
01:40:59,020 --> 01:41:01,800
treat it like it's some antiquated thing from the

969
01:41:01,800 --> 01:41:03,960
19th century. It's a powerful communication tool.

970
01:41:03,960 --> 01:41:06,920
And as for addresses, our databases can't just be

971
01:41:06,920 --> 01:41:08,260
full of email addresses. 

972
01:41:08,260 --> 01:41:10,140
The last thing I'd say is that the pandemic

973
01:41:10,140 --> 01:41:13,319
created such a volume of email. Email's cheap,

974
01:41:13,760 --> 01:41:16,779
but it doesn't get the same ROI as this present,

975
01:41:17,039 --> 01:41:19,100
this surprise and delight,
- I love calling it a present.

976
01:41:19,100 --> 01:41:21,920
..that comes in our mailboxes. So it's a way..

977
01:41:21,920 --> 01:41:25,680
the environmental thing is a thing.

978
01:41:25,680 --> 01:41:28,220
But there are ways to do this with the right kind of

979
01:41:28,220 --> 01:41:31,039
paper and by segmenting and targeting so we're

980
01:41:31,039 --> 01:41:33,619
not spraying and praying. But we're using this

981
01:41:33,619 --> 01:41:35,920
very powerful communication tool.

982
01:41:36,319 --> 01:41:37,899
I'm a big fan, have always been.

983
01:41:38,119 --> 01:41:42,140
Okay folks, our final retention tactic. 
The seat card welcome.

984
01:41:42,140 --> 01:41:44,439
Will you save, scrap or shape?

985
01:41:49,680 --> 01:41:51,340
Three, two, one.

986
01:41:53,500 --> 01:41:54,979
Okay Brad, do you wanna scrap?

987
01:41:55,359 --> 01:41:56,979
You wanna scrap the seat card?

988
01:41:58,060 --> 01:42:01,000
No, no, not really. I think I'm being just a

989
01:42:01,000 --> 01:42:05,619
little provocative here. I want to scrap the way

990
01:42:05,619 --> 01:42:08,100
many organizations are doing this where they

991
01:42:08,100 --> 01:42:11,640
think about it in one broad brush. That either

992
01:42:11,640 --> 01:42:15,239
it's only for new to file or it always looks the

993
01:42:15,239 --> 01:42:17,479
same or it always has the same message. What I

994
01:42:17,479 --> 01:42:19,140
wanna scrap is, even if you're already

995
01:42:19,140 --> 01:42:21,340
implementing something that we feel really

996
01:42:21,340 --> 01:42:24,140
strongly about, to continue to reinvent and test

997
01:42:24,380 --> 01:42:27,539
and to find different ways to elevate what we're

998
01:42:27,539 --> 01:42:29,560
leaving and how we're communicating with people.

999
01:42:29,560 --> 01:42:31,760
So what I wanna get away from is what often

1000
01:42:31,760 --> 01:42:34,960
becomes a, really a set it and forget it

1001
01:42:34,960 --> 01:42:37,380
mentality of, okay, I gotta do the seat cards and

1002
01:42:37,380 --> 01:42:40,140
it becomes drudgery and we put them out, right?

1003
01:42:40,140 --> 01:42:40,359
Yeah.

1004
01:42:40,500 --> 01:42:42,619
If it feels that way,

1005
01:42:42,840 --> 01:42:44,779
scrap it. Find something new,

1006
01:42:45,939 --> 01:42:48,060
find a different segment. Find a different way to

1007
01:42:48,060 --> 01:42:50,460
communicate so that you're pushing yourself to

1008
01:42:50,460 --> 01:42:53,000
not just get settled into one particular tactic,

1009
01:42:53,199 --> 01:42:54,479
reinvent the tactic, make

1010
01:42:54,479 --> 01:42:55,319
it have a little spark.

1011
01:42:55,319 --> 01:42:57,800
I love that, that's why I said shape. I don't

1012
01:42:57,800 --> 01:43:00,600
mind the personalization of the paper. Like I

1013
01:43:00,600 --> 01:43:02,420
think there is a surprise and delight in that,

1014
01:43:02,420 --> 01:43:04,260
but I think there's other technology that can be

1015
01:43:04,260 --> 01:43:07,539
used. You could text me, you could have somebody

1016
01:43:07,539 --> 01:43:10,960
come and say hello to me. There are different

1017
01:43:10,960 --> 01:43:14,460
ways to mechanize this and operationalize it. And

1018
01:43:14,460 --> 01:43:16,319
I think testing and learning is the thing here.

1019
01:43:16,840 --> 01:43:20,300
And pump up the volume of it. It works for the

1020
01:43:20,300 --> 01:43:22,659
person who receives it. But actually the other

1021
01:43:22,659 --> 01:43:25,680
audience is the people who observe...

1022
01:43:25,680 --> 01:43:28,500
What happened on Jill's phone? And she just got like

1023
01:43:28,500 --> 01:43:30,859
an alert that excited her. Or Brad's got that

1024
01:43:30,859 --> 01:43:33,359
card on his seat. How did he get that? But if the

1025
01:43:33,359 --> 01:43:37,060
card's small and quiet, the impact will be small

1026
01:43:37,060 --> 01:43:39,960
and quiet. So think about maximizing.

1027
01:43:40,500 --> 01:43:44,439
All it's demonstrating is how we are focusing and putting

1028
01:43:44,439 --> 01:43:47,340
the relationships with our audiences first. And

1029
01:43:47,340 --> 01:43:49,460
we are actively looking for different ways to

1030
01:43:49,460 --> 01:43:51,140
connect with them, to engage with them, to make

1031
01:43:51,140 --> 01:43:53,500
them feel special. That's the thing we wanna

1032
01:43:53,500 --> 01:43:56,699
save. The exact tactic, right? The exact delivery

1033
01:43:56,699 --> 01:43:58,260
mechanism doesn't matter.

1034
01:43:58,579 --> 01:44:00,159
Thank you, team, for choosing what you will

1035
01:44:00,159 --> 01:44:01,859
save, scrap, or shape.

1036
01:44:01,859 --> 01:44:03,899
And I'd love to hear, we'd love to hear,

1037
01:44:03,899 --> 01:44:05,760
what you will save, scrap or shape

1038
01:44:05,760 --> 01:44:07,079
in your organizations.

1039
01:44:11,100 --> 01:44:14,220
Thank you, folks, for the discussion around this retention.

1040
01:44:14,220 --> 01:44:15,760
First time of retentions,

1041
01:44:15,760 --> 01:44:17,199
though, I've got one question for you

1042
01:44:17,199 --> 01:44:18,680
and you've got 10 seconds to answer it.

1043
01:44:18,680 --> 01:44:19,939
So you gotta keep it brief.

1044
01:44:20,319 --> 01:44:22,100
I don't think I can.
- No, I know.

1045
01:44:22,100 --> 01:44:25,920
Should we start with Brad? What is your favorite second date

1046
01:44:25,920 --> 01:44:28,340
strategy to convert first time

1047
01:44:28,340 --> 01:44:30,220
buyers into repeat attendees?

1048
01:44:31,439 --> 01:44:31,640
Jill.

1049
01:44:32,659 --> 01:44:36,819
In the event, doing something special pointed at

1050
01:44:36,819 --> 01:44:40,500
me that invites me back before I leave the venue.

1051
01:44:41,739 --> 01:44:42,279
Eric.

1052
01:44:42,699 --> 01:44:45,119
That next morning to get a lovely email

1053
01:44:45,279 --> 01:44:48,880
thanking me for coming and just recharging that

1054
01:44:48,880 --> 01:44:50,220
halo I felt the night before.

1055
01:44:51,680 --> 01:44:52,260
Brad.

1056
01:44:52,420 --> 01:44:54,539
I really like both of those, but I would

1057
01:44:54,539 --> 01:44:59,640
also add that the pre-show communication going

1058
01:44:59,640 --> 01:45:02,939
above and beyond to recognize, appreciate, and

1059
01:45:02,939 --> 01:45:05,560
pre-suade and pre-influence the

1060
01:45:05,560 --> 01:45:07,100
experience of my first time attending.

1061
01:45:07,100 --> 01:45:09,239
Thank you, folks, for this discussion on retention.