WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:03.581 --> 00:00:12.871 Gene Tavernetti: Welcome to Better Teaching, Only Stuff That Works, a podcast for teachers, instructional coaches, administrators, and anyone else who supports teachers in the classroom. 00:00:13.701 --> 00:00:19.701 This show is a proud member of the BE Podcast Network shows that help you go beyond education. 00:00:20.121 --> 00:00:24.471 Find all our shows@bepodcastnetwork.com. 00:00:24.971 --> 00:00:27.731 I Am Gene Tavernetti the host for this podcast. 00:00:27.821 --> 00:00:35.711 And my goal for this episode, like all episodes, is that you laugh at least once and that you leave with an actionable idea for better teaching. 00:00:36.331 --> 00:00:38.881 A quick reminder, no cliches, no buzzwords. 00:00:39.216 --> 00:00:40.586 Only stuff that works. 00:00:41.230 --> 00:00:42.910 My guest today is Alana Gordon. 00:00:43.510 --> 00:00:49.270 Alana is a K six Reading interventionist at Warren Park Elementary School in Cicero, Illinois. 00:00:50.230 --> 00:00:59.410 She is certified in both letters, language essentials for the teachers of reading and spelling and EBLI, evidence-based literacy instruction. 00:01:00.130 --> 00:01:08.080 Alana was a Goan fellow in 20 23, 24, which allowed her to share evidence-based teaching practices through social media. 00:01:08.845 --> 00:01:13.135 She is the creator of an in-house podcast in her school district called The Road to Reading. 00:01:13.735 --> 00:01:23.845 The podcast focuses on how teachers are aligning instruction to science of reading and science of learning practices, and sharing teacher shifts in its instructional practice. 00:01:24.056 --> 00:01:33.779 In addition, she is the author of several articles published with Edutopia and Her Substack Voices from the Field, which highlights educators and evidence-based practices. 00:01:34.499 --> 00:01:41.369 Alana is a founding member of Speech to Print Illinois and the soon to be IDA Chicago chapter. 00:01:41.819 --> 00:01:44.879 She is currently a doctoral student at Mount St. Joseph. 00:01:45.089 --> 00:01:48.659 She is passionate about making sure all children learn to read. 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:52.799 She lives in Buffalo Grove, Illinois with her family and in her spare time. 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:57.569 She loves anything outdoors, especially attending summer concerts. 00:01:58.019 --> 00:01:59.669 I think you're gonna like this one. 00:02:00.956 --> 00:02:01.906 Good morning, Alana. 00:02:01.906 --> 00:02:05.626 Thank you for being on better teaching only stuff that works. 00:02:06.736 --> 00:02:07.666 Thanks for having me. 00:02:07.666 --> 00:02:08.926 I'm excited to be here. 00:02:09.286 --> 00:02:09.766 Oh gosh. 00:02:09.766 --> 00:02:11.446 I've been looking forward to this. 00:02:11.506 --> 00:02:20.956 And as I told you before when we started chatting, I had gear butts on quite a while ago, and he talked about being a Goan fellow and what's a Goan fellow? 00:02:20.956 --> 00:02:22.096 I had no idea. 00:02:22.506 --> 00:02:27.096 And now you are the fifth Goan fellow who has been on this podcast. 00:02:27.096 --> 00:02:37.396 And the reason is, I mean, all of you are so, so knowledgeable and so impressive, and I think, you know, provide a great service to to the rest of the, to the rest of the teaching community. 00:02:37.576 --> 00:02:39.136 In fact, could you just start. 00:02:39.711 --> 00:02:44.056 By talking a little bit about the Goan Fellowship and the types of things that they do. 00:02:45.056 --> 00:02:45.656 Sure. 00:02:45.706 --> 00:02:48.106 It's a non-for-profit organization. 00:02:48.186 --> 00:02:53.496 So it's run by the GoYin Foundation and Cada Solo is the executive director. 00:02:53.886 --> 00:03:03.016 And one day I was perusing X or Twitter back then, and I saw the advertisement for applying to be a fellow, and I had. 00:03:03.166 --> 00:03:13.756 Seen Becky Palone, which I think she was one of the first educators who did this, who was a fellow and she had such a huge following and would post videos of her work in her kindergarten classroom. 00:03:13.876 --> 00:03:17.356 And I just fell in love with the idea of seeing good instruction. 00:03:17.576 --> 00:03:18.836 And so I was. 00:03:19.031 --> 00:03:20.891 Thinking, you know, I'd give it a try. 00:03:20.891 --> 00:03:25.871 Like I really wanted to be part of a community of educators that would reflect on their practices. 00:03:26.201 --> 00:03:28.001 And so that's really what we do. 00:03:28.001 --> 00:03:33.671 We videotape, we kind of have a direction for our year of what kind of instruction we'll be showcasing. 00:03:33.671 --> 00:03:39.861 And then we videotape or record, lessons or snips of lessons and we post them. 00:03:39.861 --> 00:03:43.441 I think that the foundation has become better at this. 00:03:43.441 --> 00:03:47.641 When I started, I just posted, I took videos on my phone and posted on X alot. 00:03:47.801 --> 00:03:49.796 Now they have a YouTube channel and I think that's. 00:03:50.161 --> 00:03:51.151 Pretty popular. 00:03:51.421 --> 00:03:55.021 And then, you know, along the way we write some blogs about our instruction. 00:03:55.021 --> 00:04:01.201 And these days on Substack, they embed videos so that teachers can actually see what they're describing in action. 00:04:01.471 --> 00:04:04.501 And I think for me, it's one of the best ways to learn. 00:04:04.681 --> 00:04:11.431 We would also reconvene, we would convene together once a month and somebody would lead the meeting on something they were passionate about. 00:04:11.731 --> 00:04:14.131 And so we would just have an opportunity to learn. 00:04:14.131 --> 00:04:17.131 And I know you said you had Kayer on and he was in my cohorts. 00:04:17.306 --> 00:04:19.526 That was like 20, 23, 24. 00:04:19.526 --> 00:04:23.216 So I learned a lot about fluency instruction from Kayer and leadership. 00:04:24.566 --> 00:04:30.111 In fact, when we first met it was at research ed in New York City and. 00:04:30.661 --> 00:04:38.421 You know, the whole meeting or meeting people, you know, air quotes or somebody call 'em scare quotes, you know, about meeting people online. 00:04:38.701 --> 00:04:43.741 It's only partly, you know, you read their posts and you go, oh, these people are great, blah, blah, blah. 00:04:43.801 --> 00:04:52.831 And I remember, you know, meeting you and the initial meeting was at, like I say research ed New York City, and you were sitting with Laura Stam at breakfast. 00:04:53.986 --> 00:04:58.326 And and I remember we, we introduced ourselves and you know, oh yeah, I'm Laura. 00:04:58.326 --> 00:04:58.866 I'm Alana. 00:04:58.866 --> 00:04:59.466 Okay, great. 00:04:59.526 --> 00:05:06.836 And then later towards the end of the day, we met at the, where people were selling books. 00:05:07.466 --> 00:05:11.756 And you know, you and Laura were trying to decide you know, what you were gonna buy. 00:05:11.996 --> 00:05:18.121 But in between that time when we finished the bookstore, in between that time, I realized that Laura. 00:05:18.986 --> 00:05:26.956 Was stamp who I had been, you know, following on Twitter, but it's just hard to make those connections some sometime. 00:05:27.046 --> 00:05:30.616 And so it was very exciting, you know, after to meet you. 00:05:30.946 --> 00:05:36.276 But the thing that made this memorable is you and Laura were at the the book, the little bookstore. 00:05:36.926 --> 00:05:44.456 And my friend, you know, you were trying to buy a book and my friend I was almost embarrassed because he kept picking up my book and hand it to you. 00:05:44.461 --> 00:05:46.361 You need to read this one, you need to read this one. 00:05:46.361 --> 00:05:48.761 You need to, is that what your recollection was? 00:05:49.601 --> 00:05:51.461 I mean, you're being too hard on yourself. 00:05:51.461 --> 00:05:58.121 I was there and I saw, I really had my eye set on a Kate Jones retrieval practice book, because that's what I was focused on. 00:05:58.481 --> 00:06:01.641 But they happened to be sold out of that particular book. 00:06:01.641 --> 00:06:03.501 And then your friend, I think Andrew, right? 00:06:03.501 --> 00:06:08.101 He, yes, he handed us this book and said, you'll never regret it, or something like that. 00:06:08.431 --> 00:06:10.831 And I was like, okay, I'll give it a shot. 00:06:10.831 --> 00:06:21.621 I mean, before that breakfast, I don't think I, I hadn't known about you or your work, but after, and Laura was the one who made us sit there and said like, look at who we're sitting with. 00:06:21.981 --> 00:06:23.211 And I was like, okay. 00:06:24.411 --> 00:06:27.741 And then I think you ended up in a session that we were at too. 00:06:27.981 --> 00:06:43.421 And then, yeah, I mean, after that day I went home and I read that book and I, you know, there are so many guests that I've had on my podcast that have mentioned your Fast framework and I know that you were on and you walked us through it, and I haven't regretted it at all. 00:06:43.421 --> 00:06:44.651 It was one of the highlights. 00:06:44.651 --> 00:06:52.311 I mean, I put it in my show notes all the time because it's something that I think all teachers, like, I wish I had that book when I had graduated, you know? 00:06:52.901 --> 00:06:53.801 And gotten my degree. 00:06:53.801 --> 00:06:55.181 I wish I'd had that right away. 00:06:55.181 --> 00:06:58.631 I think it, it centers you on the things that are most important. 00:06:58.631 --> 00:07:05.831 And so, I mean, even though Andrew was the one who pushed it towards us I was very grateful that I got a hold of it then. 00:07:05.831 --> 00:07:07.421 'cause it, it is one of my favorites. 00:07:07.461 --> 00:07:12.741 I wanted to bring that up because I was hoping you would say everything that you just said, all those nice things about it. 00:07:13.221 --> 00:07:27.111 But also I think the idea of, you know, we talked about what the Goan Foundation does and what you do as a Goan fellow to help spread the word, but also, you know, being, you know, being able to meet people at places like research ed. 00:07:27.351 --> 00:07:39.416 I don't know if we talked about this before but do you have some like favorite experiences or favorite things, favorite ahas or something that you came away from the research ed and said this was really worth it? 00:07:39.916 --> 00:07:46.006 I really enjoy just seeing educators that I'd seen or heard about through X. 00:07:46.006 --> 00:07:52.646 You know, I'd watched them or read some of their substack or their blogs and being able to see them put that into action. 00:07:52.826 --> 00:08:01.826 I think the session we attended we saw, we went to Zach Rochelle's session and seeing the amount of opportunities to respond that students had. 00:08:01.976 --> 00:08:05.516 I think he had us watch a video and we had to count how many times. 00:08:05.526 --> 00:08:14.856 Students responded in like a minute and I actually just presented in Illinois and I used that same technique 'cause I was in, in a 45 minutes or a second clip. 00:08:15.186 --> 00:08:20.376 I mean, those kids had responded over a hundred times and that's just like eye-opening to a teacher. 00:08:20.376 --> 00:08:25.746 Like, look what you can accomplish in such short amounts of time if you're very focused and explicit. 00:08:25.956 --> 00:08:27.396 So I really appreciated that. 00:08:27.396 --> 00:08:28.716 We saw Patrice Bain. 00:08:28.961 --> 00:08:34.421 Who is an Illinois educator and has since been on my podcast, so I really appreciated hearing her. 00:08:34.791 --> 00:08:37.731 There were so many great people that we didn't get to see. 00:08:37.731 --> 00:08:41.451 I mean, the one drawback is that everyone presents at the same time. 00:08:41.451 --> 00:08:43.881 You know, there's different sessions, but there's so many good ones. 00:08:43.881 --> 00:08:45.526 So I'm hoping to go to the St. Louis. 00:08:45.831 --> 00:08:50.541 Research ed coming up in September and the fall, so I hope I get a second chance. 00:08:51.261 --> 00:08:52.101 Alright, great. 00:08:52.151 --> 00:08:54.701 well, so you've learned a lot of these techniques. 00:08:54.701 --> 00:09:00.971 What's something that you, and you have a lot of training, formal training as, as well as was mentioned in the introduction. 00:09:01.331 --> 00:09:09.231 So what are some things that you have started doing in in your work as an interventionist and maybe some things you stopped doing? 00:09:10.231 --> 00:09:13.041 Well, so there's kind of like a past and occurrence. 00:09:13.041 --> 00:09:22.431 So in the past, like, right, like I'll say five years ago as the past, like, that's when I really started learning about the science of reading and then even more recently learning science. 00:09:22.431 --> 00:09:32.811 But I came from a balanced literacy district, so we were doing guided reading in small groups and differentiating or so we thought and like level text and all those kinds of things. 00:09:32.811 --> 00:09:35.521 And we really weren't meeting the needs of our students. 00:09:35.521 --> 00:09:35.656 We weren't. 00:09:36.051 --> 00:09:39.891 You know, focused on phonics instruction or phonemic awareness. 00:09:40.051 --> 00:09:42.511 My background actually was in intermediate grades. 00:09:42.511 --> 00:09:45.121 I was a fifth, sixth grade classroom teacher when I started. 00:09:45.121 --> 00:09:53.251 And so we really don't learn any of those things when we're in our, you know, education program and then coming out and just being in the classroom. 00:09:53.251 --> 00:09:56.521 No one really ever guided us towards the things that mattered. 00:09:56.521 --> 00:09:58.271 And so, I, you know. 00:09:58.591 --> 00:10:02.761 As soon as I heard about the reading science, it just made so much sense. 00:10:02.791 --> 00:10:04.471 We always knew something was missing. 00:10:04.471 --> 00:10:07.831 We were missing the mark, but we couldn't quite figure out what exactly it was. 00:10:07.831 --> 00:10:17.681 And so, you know, being explicit and teaching students how to match, you know, phon and graphemes and, you know, put and blend those together and move on from like the basics. 00:10:17.831 --> 00:10:24.491 So I mean, those are things that I stopped doing immediately and I started implementing structured literacy practices. 00:10:24.741 --> 00:10:32.401 Along the way I learned more about ex. Explicit instruction from like Anita Archer and you know, being very focused and. 00:10:33.086 --> 00:10:38.786 You know, teaching steps in small incremental ways and checking on student responses, things like that. 00:10:38.786 --> 00:10:43.376 Making sure I'm including and making everyone's thinking visible so I can be responsive. 00:10:43.656 --> 00:10:46.926 Those are all little things I think that I've changed in the past few years. 00:10:46.926 --> 00:10:53.496 And then about two years ago, I I realized that a lot of the practices that I was using were effective. 00:10:53.496 --> 00:10:55.596 I was seeing student growth, like I had never seen. 00:10:55.616 --> 00:11:00.486 Seen before in intervention work, but I felt like it was still not fast enough. 00:11:00.486 --> 00:11:07.926 Like I work all the way through sixth grade and my kids were leaving and they don't have a lot of time left sometimes when they come to you in fifth grade. 00:11:08.166 --> 00:11:12.336 And so to catch them up several grade levels is a large task. 00:11:12.336 --> 00:11:18.626 And so, I was searching for something that could accelerate growth, not just, you know, give me growth, but accelerate it. 00:11:18.626 --> 00:11:23.946 And so I stumbled upon speech to print or linguistic phonics as it's being thrown out there now. 00:11:24.706 --> 00:11:34.156 And and so I, I got ebley trained and there's other ones, you know, Marni Ginsberg has reading Simplified sounds right is another version. 00:11:34.156 --> 00:11:38.816 So there are different programs, but I chose ebley that's the founder, Nora Shazi. 00:11:38.846 --> 00:11:43.106 And I got ly trained like two years ago and I started implementing it. 00:11:43.406 --> 00:11:46.766 And it's just there are just some basic principles that are slightly different. 00:11:46.796 --> 00:11:49.956 Not that everything is different, but we do a lot of work with. 00:11:49.956 --> 00:11:52.471 You know, integrating all parts of literacy. 00:11:52.471 --> 00:11:57.991 I do a lot of work more with authentic texts than I do with Decodables these days and things like that. 00:11:57.991 --> 00:12:02.671 And so I I have seen a lot of accelerated growth last year alone. 00:12:02.671 --> 00:12:06.156 I think I exited 21 kids out of interventions, which to me was. 00:12:06.536 --> 00:12:07.586 Kind of unheard of. 00:12:07.926 --> 00:12:10.866 I had never seen kids leave interventions before. 00:12:11.176 --> 00:12:27.586 And there is not really one child out there now that I feel like I can't teach to read, you know, and I can't catch them up to their grade level where they are reading grade level texts and can join their class again, because I think Sean Morris's always telling us like, there's an opportunity cost there. 00:12:27.756 --> 00:12:36.006 When those kids come to me, if we don't have that time built into their schedule, they're missing instruction, they're missing content, which is super important as well for knowledge building. 00:12:36.006 --> 00:12:48.216 And so, you know, it, it matters how long they're in interventions and so getting them out as quickly as possible so they can rejoin their classmates and do grade level work is, you know, is extremely important. 00:12:48.216 --> 00:12:54.756 And so that's really where my focus has been the last couple years of trying to refine my practices, learning about speech to print. 00:12:55.306 --> 00:12:56.181 I have, okay. 00:12:56.241 --> 00:12:58.491 I'm trying to think of all the questions that I wanna ask. 00:12:58.491 --> 00:12:59.481 What's the best order? 00:12:59.631 --> 00:13:01.131 The one on the top of my head. 00:13:01.431 --> 00:13:11.641 That in most recent, I was talking to a friend of mine who's a teacher and she's changing grades and she's going from experienced teacher, been teaching, you know, over 20 years. 00:13:11.641 --> 00:13:12.691 And I'm in California. 00:13:13.861 --> 00:13:16.261 And she said, yeah, I've got a new partner. 00:13:16.261 --> 00:13:18.631 And you know, she's all into science of reading. 00:13:18.631 --> 00:13:25.931 And she rolls her eyes and she rolls her eyes because I've been through this before, you know? 00:13:25.991 --> 00:13:29.651 And so what do you say to those folks? 00:13:29.681 --> 00:13:32.291 And you know what I have a lot of empathy for? 00:13:32.351 --> 00:13:36.141 I mean, I've been in education a long time and this is always the answer. 00:13:36.201 --> 00:13:37.341 This was always the answer. 00:13:37.341 --> 00:13:40.101 I remember when we were doing balance literacy, I remember I, you know. 00:13:41.226 --> 00:13:42.366 All of those things. 00:13:42.396 --> 00:13:44.166 Now how do we go to the teachers? 00:13:44.166 --> 00:13:53.536 How do we move that research to practice, especially in folks that have been through these shifts before you have any suggestions. 00:13:54.036 --> 00:13:58.596 I think the key is not just to be telling people things about the research. 00:13:58.596 --> 00:14:13.986 I think they have to see it in action, which is one of the things I really appreciate about the Going Foundation and other organizations like Step Lab and things that are showing us what that instruction looks like in our classrooms, and they're giving us these opportunities to rehearse it. 00:14:14.196 --> 00:14:15.366 What does that feel like? 00:14:15.366 --> 00:14:16.296 What do you say? 00:14:16.296 --> 00:14:17.976 Like, do you have a script for that? 00:14:17.976 --> 00:14:19.251 Do you know exactly where you're going to? 00:14:19.496 --> 00:14:20.666 Stop and ask a question. 00:14:20.906 --> 00:14:27.026 I think one of the hardest things for educators is to leave professional learning or development and go back to their classroom. 00:14:27.026 --> 00:14:33.416 Like they either wanna be perfect, so I'm not gonna implement it till it's perfect or they're afraid. 00:14:33.416 --> 00:14:35.096 Like it's, I tried it. 00:14:35.096 --> 00:14:38.906 It wasn't exactly what I thought it was going to look like, and now I'm just. 00:14:38.931 --> 00:14:39.441 Done. 00:14:40.041 --> 00:14:54.981 Like I'm not, I don't wanna continue because it's hard work and it can be messy and it's not always a straight line to from point A to point B. So I think you have to be willing to like jump into the messiness and you know, reflect on your practice. 00:14:54.981 --> 00:14:55.006 I think. 00:14:55.656 --> 00:15:01.086 You know, recording yourself for the sake of just you watching it is a valuable, you know, skill to learn. 00:15:01.456 --> 00:15:08.676 I think having a coach work with you is really valuable if you can get that kind of support and I think that. 00:15:09.246 --> 00:15:15.876 Just having discussions and then finding a topic you're interested in and really learning more deeply about it. 00:15:15.876 --> 00:15:19.566 Because I hear a lot of times when we go to sessions, oh, I do that. 00:15:20.076 --> 00:15:26.376 Yes, you do that to some extent, but there's so much nuance to things that you might not have quite thought of. 00:15:26.646 --> 00:15:28.921 You know, when I started learning this year, I joined a research. 00:15:29.186 --> 00:15:36.606 Study from the University of Maryland on, and they we taught Reading Mastery, which is a direct instruction program, which I had never done before. 00:15:36.606 --> 00:15:45.276 And just even that sequence of asking a question, the pause and the name sequence at the end, I hadn't really done much of that before. 00:15:45.276 --> 00:15:50.166 And so having somebody show that to me and now I can see the value, right? 00:15:50.166 --> 00:15:50.941 I now get to see the. 00:15:51.291 --> 00:15:55.281 Thinking of all students and then kids have their time to shine, we call it. 00:15:55.641 --> 00:16:01.551 And I can see the value in that, but without that experience I might not have stumbled upon that. 00:16:02.506 --> 00:16:12.901 You know, I think what you said is very important about being able to see it because many times, you know, teachers, you're gonna believe this. 00:16:12.931 --> 00:16:19.291 And I don't, maybe some of the people in my audience, Alana, some teachers are not that excited about having coaches. 00:16:20.371 --> 00:16:28.441 And one of the reasons that they're not excited about having coaches is they think coaching is gonna have somebody who's gonna come in and tell 'em, don't do this anymore. 00:16:28.491 --> 00:16:32.961 And what I've found with experienced teachers is that it's usually not a big shift. 00:16:33.801 --> 00:16:34.101 You know? 00:16:34.101 --> 00:16:37.556 It's a small sh it's a big shift in their head, maybe, you know? 00:16:37.556 --> 00:16:37.836 Yeah. 00:16:37.886 --> 00:16:40.546 But what it looks like is not that different. 00:16:40.786 --> 00:16:41.866 But also I want to. 00:16:42.286 --> 00:16:50.131 Emphasize the point you made about you think you're doing it, you know about having somebody do it, because one of the things that we see in education. 00:16:51.286 --> 00:16:51.676 Forever. 00:16:51.726 --> 00:16:59.406 We've watched is that people mimic things without understanding the underlying, you know, what's going on. 00:16:59.736 --> 00:17:03.796 And one of the things that I'm worried about, well, I'm not that worried. 00:17:04.276 --> 00:17:09.036 I don't worry about it but I'm afraid that what we're gonna see is they're gonna take a look. 00:17:09.066 --> 00:17:15.006 Everybody's gonna take a look at the Mississippi Miracle and say, oh yeah, well, we have to hold kids back in third grade. 00:17:15.126 --> 00:17:15.516 Geez. 00:17:15.516 --> 00:17:16.056 It's not. 00:17:16.316 --> 00:17:17.576 The holding them back. 00:17:17.606 --> 00:17:20.276 That's not what it is, but that's the surface level. 00:17:20.276 --> 00:17:21.716 That's what we, that's what we see. 00:17:21.956 --> 00:17:25.281 Thank you for allowing me to go off here Alana, a little bit. 00:17:25.371 --> 00:17:40.261 Well, you know, one of the, one of the interesting things that I think, you know, before we started recording, you were talking about that you have done things in your intervention group that you they had been effective, but then you found something more effective. 00:17:41.231 --> 00:17:47.691 Now and I think just having that self worth, could you talk about, you know, like, like something that you've done that you could think of that, that fits? 00:17:48.771 --> 00:17:49.551 Yeah, sure. 00:17:49.551 --> 00:17:50.796 I feel like you know. 00:17:51.841 --> 00:17:54.361 Every scope and sequence in a curriculum, right? 00:17:54.361 --> 00:17:57.811 You know, you follow it, it's you're looking for something systematic. 00:17:57.811 --> 00:17:58.711 We start at simple. 00:17:58.711 --> 00:18:00.091 We build to more complex. 00:18:00.391 --> 00:18:13.221 But one thing that I've learned in speech to print is that, you know, I don't have to I used to use a more structured literacy lesson plan where I would start with phonemic awareness and then I would go to a phonics. 00:18:13.231 --> 00:18:13.711 Piece. 00:18:13.711 --> 00:18:18.721 And then I would do encoding and decoding, and then I would move to connected text and maybe do some dictation. 00:18:18.721 --> 00:18:20.461 So it was all kind of step by step. 00:18:20.911 --> 00:18:33.731 But what I have found is that integration piece, like I might do a little phonemic awareness work outside of my Authentic lesson, but every time a student makes some, as you know, says a sound incorrectly, and I say this. 00:18:34.011 --> 00:18:36.471 And I trade a sound with them and have them rebrand. 00:18:36.651 --> 00:18:38.931 They just substituted, they just rebleed. 00:18:38.931 --> 00:18:43.011 They're using their phonemic awareness in the essence of the active reading. 00:18:43.191 --> 00:18:50.631 And so by integrating these pieces and not keeping them so isolated, I'm finding that there's an acceleration in that. 00:18:50.901 --> 00:18:55.201 And I also, like another example would be in a Scope and Zs, a lot of times we teach. 00:18:55.411 --> 00:19:00.361 Silent E and every couple of days is a new vowel pat, you know, a new vowel. 00:19:00.391 --> 00:19:05.701 There's an E at the end with the A, and then E and I. And the thing is, it's the same concept, right? 00:19:05.701 --> 00:19:10.321 It's every T when you see that E at the end, it often, you know, you're saying the name of the vowel. 00:19:10.321 --> 00:19:14.521 So I'm gonna teach you the concept behind that, and then I'm gonna have you practice it. 00:19:14.521 --> 00:19:17.881 And of course, you know, thinking about like the instructional hierarchy, I'm gonna. 00:19:17.961 --> 00:19:30.391 Start with, you know, block practice, and then I'm gonna mix it up and then I'm gonna keep moving, but I don't need to spend two to three weeks teaching you a concept I can teach you in 10 minutes and then involve all the different VS. 00:19:30.871 --> 00:19:31.531 And practice. 00:19:31.531 --> 00:19:35.911 So that piece of practice is so important and we see it in so many other ways. 00:19:35.911 --> 00:19:41.531 We see it in musicians, we see it in sports, and yet in education, we don't give enough time to that. 00:19:41.786 --> 00:19:43.286 Rehearsal or practice part. 00:19:43.286 --> 00:19:51.536 And I feel like I've been able to increase the amount of time that students' eyes are on text and I've really seen that lead to acceleration. 00:19:52.526 --> 00:19:57.146 I think what you're describing there, you know, is that, like you said, I could teach this in 10 minutes. 00:19:57.146 --> 00:20:02.271 and, but we're gonna practice it the rest of our lives or the rest of our lives as readers. 00:20:03.216 --> 00:20:09.066 So I think that's confusing sometimes for teachers because, okay, we're gonna focus on one thing. 00:20:09.106 --> 00:20:10.276 we're gonna do this today. 00:20:10.696 --> 00:20:13.576 And they say, well, they're not gonna learn it today. 00:20:13.576 --> 00:20:14.626 This is gonna take days. 00:20:14.656 --> 00:20:28.576 Of course, it's gonna take days to practice, not to learn it, you know, and it's funny you mentioned the silent E I've been on a, it's been years, I've been trying to get people to change the way that they spell cheese. 00:20:29.851 --> 00:20:34.901 Because I mean, how many rules about long E do we have to have in one word? 00:20:35.861 --> 00:20:37.511 We got the silent E at the end. 00:20:37.511 --> 00:20:39.701 You know, we got the two vowels that go walking. 00:20:39.701 --> 00:20:45.331 I mean, you know, so I mean, how, anyway I can't get people to get on board with that though. 00:20:45.831 --> 00:20:52.371 So as you're talking okay, so we've talked about some of the things that you did, but you do better. 00:20:52.611 --> 00:20:53.151 Is there. 00:20:53.541 --> 00:20:58.321 Anything that you've just I love, I would, I wanna get back more to, to, to intervention. 00:20:58.711 --> 00:21:04.001 So how are students identified for intervention where you are? 00:21:05.001 --> 00:21:09.921 So we have a universal screener, which was new to our district within the last five years. 00:21:09.921 --> 00:21:11.471 So we give a benchmark test. 00:21:11.471 --> 00:21:12.551 We use DIBELS eight. 00:21:12.891 --> 00:21:24.791 And so everyone takes the benchmark and we have different measures that it includes to kind of give an overall picture, and then we look for students that are like in the bottom. 00:21:25.391 --> 00:21:27.191 20 10% ish. 00:21:27.411 --> 00:21:28.641 Our system isn't perfect. 00:21:28.641 --> 00:21:30.831 It's still overloaded in intervention work. 00:21:30.881 --> 00:21:37.721 We're not quite at where, you know, every grade levels, it has kids in the 80%, you know, mark for proficiency. 00:21:37.721 --> 00:21:41.741 And so we have way too many kids in intervention for all different sorts of reasons. 00:21:42.071 --> 00:21:49.151 But we look for those kids that are most struggling, who are, you know, in the well below category, you know, bottom 10, 15, 20%. 00:21:49.151 --> 00:21:49.781 And those are this. 00:21:49.901 --> 00:21:53.321 Students that my, my intervention team picks up. 00:21:53.701 --> 00:22:02.231 Me personally, I tend to work with students who are very inaccurate, who have low accuracy in their reading and have a low rate of reading. 00:22:02.501 --> 00:22:05.191 And so, what seems to happen with with work. 00:22:05.201 --> 00:22:23.081 Through Ely is that I'm able to increase their accuracy fairly quickly within like a couple months even, you know, so, so they become very accurate, very quickly and speed up that process so that we can think more about fluency and what does that mean, and comprehension and things like that. 00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:30.829 So do you have multiple interventionists at your site? 00:22:31.959 --> 00:22:40.639 Yeah, at my, in my particular school we have two bilingual interventionists, and we had, this past year we had three English interventionists. 00:22:40.639 --> 00:22:45.764 And it kind of depends on the year, how many we have at each building, but it's somewhere around that number. 00:22:45.769 --> 00:22:51.799 So you and you supervise these folks, when I say supervise, you provide some support for them. 00:22:53.159 --> 00:22:53.939 Not really. 00:22:53.939 --> 00:22:59.329 Once upon a time I was a coach, I was a literacy coach in my building for 10 years, but I don't do that anymore. 00:22:59.329 --> 00:23:09.994 But I mean, I think being a teacher who's knowledgeable and is thirsty for learning is, you know, can help a team and, you know, think about what it is that we wanna focus on, like. 00:23:10.074 --> 00:23:15.204 Can we make tweaks to our, you know, multi system, a tiered system of support? 00:23:15.204 --> 00:23:17.994 Can we add things and look at data differently? 00:23:17.994 --> 00:23:20.544 And so, I mean, I'm always bringing things to my team. 00:23:20.544 --> 00:23:20.604 Yeah. 00:23:20.604 --> 00:23:22.919 I don't know if I would call that what you said. 00:23:23.189 --> 00:23:30.664 The reason that I asked that question is you mentioned that you had the kids you were working with had a specific thing that you were working on. 00:23:30.664 --> 00:23:31.354 What was that thing? 00:23:31.454 --> 00:23:31.734 Accuracy. 00:23:31.994 --> 00:23:32.919 AC accuracy. 00:23:33.189 --> 00:23:33.609 Okay. 00:23:33.609 --> 00:23:35.469 But, so I was wondering if the kids were. 00:23:36.169 --> 00:23:41.119 We're, you know, they do the screener and then, well, Alana's gonna take these kids for accuracy. 00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:43.429 Somebody else is gonna take these kids for something else. 00:23:43.479 --> 00:23:45.429 But that's not what's happening where you are. 00:23:45.489 --> 00:23:48.789 That's just something, that's a decision that you made about what you're gonna focus on. 00:23:50.064 --> 00:23:52.344 Oh I think we just think about the intervention. 00:23:52.344 --> 00:23:56.364 So I'm the only ELI trained interventionist, but we use other programs. 00:23:56.364 --> 00:24:01.964 So some of us use uly and some of us use a program from Anita Archer Phonics for Reading. 00:24:01.964 --> 00:24:06.344 And so I think it just depends on what we think is a good match for those students. 00:24:06.699 --> 00:24:08.649 You know, what is it that they're working on? 00:24:08.649 --> 00:24:09.849 Is it more fluency? 00:24:09.849 --> 00:24:18.099 Anita Archer's program has like bridging texts, and so they're nice because they move from more decodable types of texts to more grade level types of texts. 00:24:18.099 --> 00:24:28.329 And so sometimes teachers will take those interventions will take students who are already accurate, who need to work more on their rate of reading and ity, and so they'll use that intervention. 00:24:28.489 --> 00:24:36.379 Some other teachers who are not speech to print trained, they'll they'll use u. So do kids move between the groups? 00:24:36.919 --> 00:24:37.819 Do they graduate? 00:24:37.819 --> 00:24:38.029 Sometimes? 00:24:38.029 --> 00:24:38.299 Yeah. 00:24:38.704 --> 00:24:52.294 Yeah, sometimes, I mean, some students exit some students after, so after a couple cycles, if we don't see a change, you know, I might say to a another interventionist, you know, can you try this student with this intervention? 00:24:52.294 --> 00:24:55.894 Because I don't see the progress that we were hoping for to meet their goal. 00:24:56.074 --> 00:24:59.764 So sometimes there's some changes, but I mean, there's old systems left over. 00:24:59.764 --> 00:25:04.714 Not everybody is accepting of wanting to give up students, they think of their students as theirs. 00:25:05.084 --> 00:25:07.244 And so we don't always share Nice. 00:25:08.699 --> 00:25:11.189 You know, so to speak, but we're working on it. 00:25:11.999 --> 00:25:14.069 So are you one of those you like to keep yours? 00:25:14.819 --> 00:25:16.619 No, I like to exit mine. 00:25:16.619 --> 00:25:18.899 I like to teach them what they need to know. 00:25:19.019 --> 00:25:20.969 No, I like to get students what they need. 00:25:20.969 --> 00:25:26.279 So if it's not what I'm giving them, then there's something else out there that matches their need and we need to find it for them. 00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:27.029 That's our job. 00:25:27.419 --> 00:25:27.659 Okay. 00:25:27.659 --> 00:25:30.449 So you've been an interventionist, you've been a coach. 00:25:30.519 --> 00:25:31.349 You've been a coach. 00:25:32.454 --> 00:25:33.744 For interventionists. 00:25:33.924 --> 00:25:41.824 So I guess one of, one of my questions is what are we doing differently now or do we have any hangovers? 00:25:42.034 --> 00:25:42.454 Okay. 00:25:42.669 --> 00:25:55.539 I know that one of the things that when I was an administrator, I was most disappointed about finding out that many of our interventions looked just like what was happening in the classroom, except there were four kids. 00:25:56.654 --> 00:25:59.834 And it didn't seem like that was the answer to me. 00:26:00.344 --> 00:26:10.844 And of course, you know, I'm going to stipulate, you know, I'm not an expert in the, in this area, but if we go to an intervention, I would expect something to look different. 00:26:10.844 --> 00:26:15.704 Doesn't intervention look different in general now, but. 00:26:16.704 --> 00:26:19.974 Has the intervention, do we still have hangovers in intervention? 00:26:20.184 --> 00:26:23.004 We send kids to intervention and it doesn't work. 00:26:23.034 --> 00:26:27.944 Not in your school, not in your site but as you hear what people are doing in interventions. 00:26:28.483 --> 00:26:34.123 I think that there are lots of students that are stuck in interventions, and we call them lifers. 00:26:34.453 --> 00:26:40.033 They've been there for as long as you can remember year after year, and that should tell you something, right? 00:26:40.033 --> 00:26:42.763 If the instruction isn't working, why is it not changing? 00:26:42.793 --> 00:26:54.793 I think when you had asked me earlier what's something that have changed, I think across my teaching years, that realizing that it is my instruction that needs to change and not the student, right? 00:26:54.793 --> 00:26:56.023 It's never a problem with this. 00:26:56.103 --> 00:26:56.553 Student. 00:26:56.553 --> 00:27:00.033 It's always something in my instruction that needs to be adapted. 00:27:00.033 --> 00:27:03.153 And so I think that lots of us suffer from that. 00:27:03.153 --> 00:27:15.213 You know, like we're not, sometimes the instruction does look the same sometimes, you know, maybe we're not looking at data close enough, and so we haven't analyzed it to the, to, to the degree that we need to. 00:27:15.213 --> 00:27:18.183 And so we're not finding like, what is that, you know? 00:27:19.538 --> 00:27:22.988 Minute struggle that the student is having that we can build on. 00:27:23.268 --> 00:27:29.058 I do think that the research does point us in the direction of aligning, you know, for MTSS aligning our instructions. 00:27:29.058 --> 00:27:33.708 So interventions shouldn't look wildly different, but they should be more intensified. 00:27:34.098 --> 00:27:34.488 Right? 00:27:34.488 --> 00:27:36.078 And you can do that in different ways. 00:27:36.078 --> 00:27:41.058 It can be smaller group size, it could be more opportunities to respond, it could be more models, more explicitness. 00:27:41.058 --> 00:27:42.528 So I think that. 00:27:42.818 --> 00:27:50.078 It's not the alignment piece, but I think that we need to improve our practice around some of those other pieces that we're still learning. 00:27:51.078 --> 00:27:59.388 Is there anything as you continue to learn that you look back on that you were doing and you thought, why did I ever think that was a good idea? 00:27:59.888 --> 00:28:15.943 Yeah, I, well, first of all, guided reading and I, we, after we moved from we did guided reading using like Fountas and Pinel resources and materials, and then we moved to Gian Richardson's literacy footprints and we kind of sprinkled some phonics in there. 00:28:16.603 --> 00:28:20.033 And we used to, actually, in my district, we threw out Decodables. 00:28:20.663 --> 00:28:22.163 We didn't think they were useful. 00:28:22.163 --> 00:28:24.483 We didn't understand, like you said, we didn't understand the. 00:28:24.788 --> 00:28:28.148 The idea behind them, why, what purpose did they serve? 00:28:28.148 --> 00:28:32.988 And so we said these stories didn't make sense and we threw them out and no one told us differently. 00:28:32.988 --> 00:28:41.148 And so I think that realizing, you know, some of those practices, like kids are not looking at pictures, they're not just guessing at words. 00:28:41.148 --> 00:28:44.648 They need to know, you know, how the code works, how the system works. 00:28:44.918 --> 00:28:47.918 But also we also had units of study by Lucy Calkins. 00:28:48.633 --> 00:28:53.973 And we taught strategy of the day or the week, you know, like main idea. 00:28:53.973 --> 00:28:56.433 We would teach it in a text and test it. 00:28:56.433 --> 00:28:59.313 And then we'd go down to point of view and author's purpose. 00:28:59.523 --> 00:29:01.563 And we didn't really integrate any of these things. 00:29:01.563 --> 00:29:09.153 We weren't building knowledge because we were changing topics all the time and we weren't getting a sense of what kids could or couldn't do. 00:29:09.423 --> 00:29:16.323 And then I think in terms of writing instruction, we were asking kids to write five paragraph essays about topics they had. 00:29:16.383 --> 00:29:17.018 They could say maybe. 00:29:17.453 --> 00:29:41.423 Three words about, and so I don't know how you can speak, how you can write before you can even speak about a topic, but learning that, you know, things we needed to teach about cohesion and we needed to teach about, you know, ref reference and we needed to teach about sentence level learning first and writing and breaking things down for students, it's in nearly impossible to write a good paragraph if you can't write a good sentence. 00:29:41.423 --> 00:29:42.953 And so learning how to. 00:29:43.228 --> 00:29:46.808 That struck him that way was something that was a huge change for me. 00:29:46.808 --> 00:29:49.148 I hadn't ever considered those things before. 00:29:50.048 --> 00:29:57.788 You know, it's interesting you talked about knowledge building and, what do people call it, the skill of the weak is now what you read about it, you read about it on Twitter. 00:29:58.138 --> 00:30:00.898 What is, you talk about it. 00:30:01.458 --> 00:30:04.248 And I'm just shaking my head, oh yeah, Alana, you know, go for it. 00:30:04.428 --> 00:30:05.388 What's the tension? 00:30:05.388 --> 00:30:09.648 What in the world what's the argument here between the knowledge building and the skill. 00:30:09.648 --> 00:30:10.578 And the skills? 00:30:10.628 --> 00:30:14.498 Well, I think, I mean, I think it's different for experts versus teachers. 00:30:14.498 --> 00:30:27.788 So I think teachers, like we, we adopted core Knowledge or CKLA and Caminos, and so we have a knowledge building curriculum, but I think a lot of teachers are afraid of the depth of the topics for their students. 00:30:27.933 --> 00:30:29.253 I also think that. 00:30:29.523 --> 00:30:37.103 The strategies are embedded within the teacher, you know, lessons, but they're not as explicitly stated. 00:30:37.103 --> 00:30:44.483 So like when you're reading about different civilizations, they're gonna ask you to talk about them and you are comparing and contrasting them. 00:30:44.693 --> 00:30:55.163 But maybe, you know, you're not just reading a piece that's just done and contrast, and this is like what we're focusing on because you don't, on any given day, you're not focused on that one strategy. 00:30:55.508 --> 00:30:59.318 Student needs lots of strategies to be able to make their way through a text. 00:30:59.618 --> 00:31:01.238 And that's what makes them complex. 00:31:01.238 --> 00:31:10.448 And so, you know, I think that when we focused on just one strategy, we were telling students like, this is the only thing you do in this text, and that's not accurate. 00:31:10.448 --> 00:31:15.848 And so I think there's this, you know, I often think on Twitter though, experts kind of sometimes tell us. 00:31:16.133 --> 00:31:21.893 They seem to disagree but loudly, but they're not always disagreeing. 00:31:21.893 --> 00:31:33.633 So, so like there isn't so much space between them, like if you really listen or read what they're saying, I feel like they, they agree on more things than they don't, but they highlight the things that they don't agree on. 00:31:34.013 --> 00:31:34.913 More loudly. 00:31:34.913 --> 00:31:43.623 And so I think to me that's confusing as an educator because the majority of the average educator doesn't really read enough research. 00:31:43.863 --> 00:31:49.833 And so we're reliant on, you know, what we think are experts to help us navigate what does the research say? 00:31:50.043 --> 00:31:54.183 And when you're saying two different things in two different text threads, that's confusing. 00:31:54.183 --> 00:32:00.183 And so I think that experts, it would be helpful or beneficial for experts to kind of. 00:32:00.398 --> 00:32:07.698 Put it all together for us and come to like some consensus before they put that out into the world in front of teachers. 00:32:08.658 --> 00:32:13.538 Really a difficult thing for teachers to be able to determine. 00:32:14.198 --> 00:32:18.908 Again, just because this person has does good work doesn't mean they're not fallible. 00:32:20.093 --> 00:32:25.463 And and I think like, like you did in your class, well, I, this is working, but this is better. 00:32:25.463 --> 00:32:26.873 I've, I found something better. 00:32:27.113 --> 00:32:29.663 It doesn't negate what somebody has said. 00:32:29.963 --> 00:32:32.353 It's just that you found some nuance and you made it work. 00:32:32.713 --> 00:32:41.383 And I'm gonna mention Laura Sta here right now, just because I wanna mention her in every podcast, but I call Laura the great synthesizer. 00:32:42.048 --> 00:32:51.213 Because you can see all of these ideas that she has learned and she makes them fit into her lesson. 00:32:51.733 --> 00:32:55.308 Her personality, her classroom, how she runs her classroom and you just see 'em. 00:32:55.488 --> 00:32:57.258 If you know them, you see 'em. 00:32:57.498 --> 00:33:00.048 If you don't know 'em, you just think, oh, she's a good teacher. 00:33:00.048 --> 00:33:03.798 But but I think I think that's where the, you know. 00:33:04.798 --> 00:33:07.888 Not being bullied into, okay, you have to do it this way. 00:33:08.068 --> 00:33:15.478 And this is the, one of the things I always tell teachers that I ask them you know, don't do it because I said it, because then if it doesn't work, you're gonna blame me. 00:33:16.078 --> 00:33:16.408 You know? 00:33:16.408 --> 00:33:16.468 Yeah. 00:33:16.688 --> 00:33:18.868 It has to be yours or you're not gonna learn. 00:33:19.208 --> 00:33:23.368 Alana what what is important, do you think about the intervention work? 00:33:23.428 --> 00:33:25.843 What, you know, what's the most important things? 00:33:25.948 --> 00:33:27.868 I'm doing this work with kids. 00:33:28.798 --> 00:33:32.128 I think within your school system you have to think about alignment. 00:33:32.128 --> 00:33:36.598 You do have to think about what's going on in your core instruction and how can you help support that. 00:33:36.988 --> 00:33:43.678 But finding the thing that's going to work for those students, I think that we have to really start the part of the conversation. 00:33:43.678 --> 00:33:47.038 I feel like that is missing out there is that acceleration piece. 00:33:47.218 --> 00:33:50.158 It's like you said, it's not about what's just working. 00:33:50.308 --> 00:33:51.478 It's what is working the. 00:33:51.618 --> 00:33:55.008 Fastest, and that's what we need to rally behind, right? 00:33:55.008 --> 00:33:56.958 Kids can't be in interventions forever. 00:33:56.958 --> 00:33:58.218 They can't be lifers. 00:33:58.378 --> 00:34:02.128 They're missing valuable instruction in their classrooms, and that's where they should be. 00:34:02.128 --> 00:34:09.238 And so I think that just understanding, you know, like things like the instructional hierarchy and the amount of practice. 00:34:09.423 --> 00:34:16.173 That students need and that it's not, yes, you're looking for a level of mastery, but you're also coming back to it time and time again. 00:34:16.173 --> 00:34:20.133 It's not just like, you know, they learned it and they're never revisiting these things. 00:34:20.133 --> 00:34:29.813 And so, and like you mentioned, you know, I think those are all things that need to be part of the conversation, and I think that acceleration piece to me is the part that's missing the most. 00:34:29.913 --> 00:34:45.463 And it's interesting, I think this isn't really part of the learning hierarchy, but I think it's it's adjacent and that is, as you work with these kids in intervention and you kind of see what the arc is of improvement. 00:34:46.663 --> 00:34:54.393 And so you might have kids, you know, there, and it's been two weeks, it doesn't look like much improvement to somebody, but you know, They're right on track. 00:34:54.723 --> 00:35:01.343 And I think that's one of the hard things not only for interventionists who are just starting to realize, Hey, you're making progress. 00:35:01.343 --> 00:35:02.033 Don't give up. 00:35:02.303 --> 00:35:06.473 But I think it's also important for the classroom teacher to say, oh no, we're not. 00:35:06.578 --> 00:35:08.408 We're not gonna get rid of this kid yet. 00:35:08.948 --> 00:35:10.718 You know, we're not sending him to Alana yet. 00:35:10.768 --> 00:35:12.028 They're on track. 00:35:12.088 --> 00:35:18.228 And and I think that's part of the operationalizing of the of high expectations is understanding. 00:35:18.238 --> 00:35:21.148 There's a path here and there on it, and I am doing a good job. 00:35:21.858 --> 00:35:24.078 You know, we can, you know, I think, yeah. 00:35:24.083 --> 00:35:24.373 Yeah. 00:35:24.373 --> 00:35:26.503 I think looking at data helps with that, right? 00:35:26.503 --> 00:35:36.193 Your data will tell you, like, you know, those celebrations, those moments, even if they're incremental, like you don't get from point A to point B, you don't take this big flying leap, right? 00:35:36.193 --> 00:35:40.213 It's steps along the way, and you have to acknowledge and plan for those too. 00:35:41.233 --> 00:35:45.673 And with a lot of those kids, there is that flying leap as you exit them. 00:35:46.013 --> 00:35:47.003 And then they're good. 00:35:47.273 --> 00:35:48.633 They're good to go. 00:35:48.933 --> 00:35:52.083 Well, Alana, do you have any questions for me before we go? 00:35:52.968 --> 00:35:53.808 Of course I do. 00:35:53.808 --> 00:35:54.798 I love questions. 00:35:55.798 --> 00:35:57.598 Well that, oh gosh, we didn't talk about your podcast. 00:35:57.688 --> 00:35:58.288 Oh my goodness. 00:35:58.288 --> 00:35:59.488 We'll talk about it in a second. 00:35:59.908 --> 00:36:00.358 Oh, okay. 00:36:00.503 --> 00:36:00.803 I'm sorry. 00:36:01.618 --> 00:36:02.548 No worries. 00:36:02.598 --> 00:36:10.908 So I know that you've worked in a lot of schools and you've coached with a lot of teachers, and so I'd be interested into, like thinking about systems work. 00:36:11.118 --> 00:36:14.568 I wanted to know what are like three to five actionable. 00:36:14.678 --> 00:36:22.588 Steps that you would put in place in a school or tell leadership to put in place to get there to kind of turn a building around? 00:36:23.663 --> 00:36:25.673 Well, I know you didn't ask this question. 00:36:26.403 --> 00:36:31.113 To get this response but we do have a new book outta co-authored, a book called Digital Captives. 00:36:31.413 --> 00:36:36.813 And it's pretty much about that, about developing systems that to turn buildings around. 00:36:36.813 --> 00:36:44.703 I mean, the focus of this was initially about technology, but it's about, and just turning school around systems that need to be in place. 00:36:45.423 --> 00:36:46.713 But one of the things. 00:36:47.223 --> 00:36:53.373 That is most important is that there is a a common language around instruction. 00:36:54.363 --> 00:37:01.608 You know, you don't have to say, you know, it, it's interesting a lot of you know, I talked to Zach and he's worked with places he's worked. 00:37:01.638 --> 00:37:13.623 Like, you'll see these folks in New York talk about the work they've done, like he was at school where they, or the school district that they had the cyclone six and that they didn't say Teachers, you have to use the fast framework, but. 00:37:14.593 --> 00:37:29.823 We wanna see these elements in instruction and other schools have done, I can't remember, you know, if they come up with some wonderful, alliterative way to describe all these good things that should be in instruction and to talk about them with a similar way. 00:37:30.213 --> 00:37:33.543 One of the things, as you talked about earlier, opportunities to respond. 00:37:33.753 --> 00:37:38.253 Whatever those things are, it has to be agreed upon that these are good things. 00:37:39.163 --> 00:37:40.723 And that we're all gonna do them. 00:37:41.283 --> 00:37:44.613 if you don't have that, everything is just somebody's opinion. 00:37:45.783 --> 00:37:47.553 So you have to start with that. 00:37:48.513 --> 00:37:52.788 And we've seen just a lot of success, you know, doing that. 00:37:52.998 --> 00:38:05.568 In fact, I remember being on your podcast and you asked me about, you know, the fast framework and how it relates to, like the scripted programs or semi scripted programs, and I thought, you know, I think they're great. 00:38:05.568 --> 00:38:13.668 I think what happens if you understand the explicit instruction, like in the fast framework, you see why these other programs work. 00:38:14.238 --> 00:38:15.678 I mean, there's total alignment. 00:38:15.678 --> 00:38:17.748 So we're not asking you to do another thing. 00:38:17.928 --> 00:38:19.908 We're just bringing this to attention. 00:38:20.488 --> 00:38:21.868 that is one of the biggest things. 00:38:21.868 --> 00:38:26.648 Just a just an agreement about who we are here at this school. 00:38:27.218 --> 00:38:31.058 A common language, and then having somebody to help you do that. 00:38:31.558 --> 00:38:33.508 You know, that, that's why we have coaches now. 00:38:33.508 --> 00:38:39.598 It's not to say you're a bad teacher, it's to help you so that you're actually getting results from the things that. 00:38:40.183 --> 00:38:47.373 We're asking you to do because we do know that they work, they, you know, but but it's hard to know what those points of leverage are. 00:38:47.373 --> 00:38:50.073 What are the most important parts of this? 00:38:50.943 --> 00:39:02.623 So, common vocabulary, common lesson structure to be able to talk about that, to be able to coach, to get better, and always with the goal in your instructional hierarchy. 00:39:04.123 --> 00:39:11.563 It's not so that teachers are robots, it's to get past the fluency and that you're making those decisions. 00:39:11.623 --> 00:39:15.553 You know, you're making generalizations and adaptations, you know, as you're teaching. 00:39:16.933 --> 00:39:17.233 Okay. 00:39:17.233 --> 00:39:19.153 I'm gonna bring those back to my leadership. 00:39:19.153 --> 00:39:23.468 I'm gonna say that Jean signed off on all of these things and send 'em the book. 00:39:23.468 --> 00:39:25.948 Bring them the book, and, all right, Alana. 00:39:25.948 --> 00:39:30.028 Okay, before we go, tell us there's two things, what you wanna talk about. 00:39:30.028 --> 00:39:31.858 Number one, tell us about your podcast. 00:39:32.858 --> 00:39:33.548 Oh yeah. 00:39:33.548 --> 00:39:45.548 So my podcast is called The Road to Reading, and I started it as a way to support my colleagues as we were making these shifts together. 00:39:45.878 --> 00:39:54.678 And then, along the way, we've asked some experts to be on it like yourself, and you've given us kind of some good things to think about. 00:39:54.678 --> 00:40:03.558 And then I also speak to lots of educators who are putting These practices or strategies into their real life classrooms and showcasing what that looks like. 00:40:03.558 --> 00:40:13.618 And so, I try to match the podcast to the professional learning that my district is doing for the year, and it just so happens that everybody gets to benefit. 00:40:14.698 --> 00:40:15.143 Oh, Great. 00:40:15.368 --> 00:40:21.148 So you've got your podcast, you've got your substack, which will be in the notes and the substack, As you mentioned. 00:40:21.698 --> 00:40:24.218 A lot of the videos will show up now into the substack. 00:40:24.768 --> 00:40:25.248 Yeah. 00:40:25.428 --> 00:40:27.288 That's a good, that's a great feature. 00:40:27.528 --> 00:40:29.568 Can I mention one more thing coming up? 00:40:29.778 --> 00:40:31.608 I hope it's what you're doing with Holly. 00:40:32.008 --> 00:40:32.278 Yes. 00:40:32.278 --> 00:40:34.648 It just came out in the bell ringer this morning. 00:40:34.648 --> 00:40:35.998 It's so exciting to see. 00:40:35.998 --> 00:40:36.538 Yes. 00:40:36.838 --> 00:40:43.378 So Holly Corby from the Bell Ringer and Kate Salo and the Goan Foundation, which is also the Science of Reading Classroom. 00:40:43.378 --> 00:40:46.738 And myself, which my substack is called Voices From the Field. 00:40:47.048 --> 00:40:54.128 We are co-sponsoring a virtual symposium June 30th in the afternoon hours, it's like about a half a day. 00:40:54.773 --> 00:40:56.843 We are accepting proposals. 00:40:56.843 --> 00:40:57.683 It just went live. 00:40:57.683 --> 00:41:05.723 We're accepting proposals from educators that have had great student outcomes and would like to share how they got those outcomes with other educators. 00:41:05.723 --> 00:41:11.633 And we're looking for practical strategies that teachers can implement in their practice like the next day. 00:41:11.993 --> 00:41:17.543 And we are so excited to highlight teachers and build a community of learners together. 00:41:17.543 --> 00:41:21.743 And so please check out the, save the date and please attend. 00:41:22.133 --> 00:41:25.043 And I hope everyone will submit a proposal. 00:41:25.553 --> 00:41:26.153 You know what? 00:41:26.243 --> 00:41:31.283 Oh, I know that this will be out in time for the event for sure. 00:41:31.443 --> 00:41:32.553 What are the proposals? 00:41:32.553 --> 00:41:34.528 What are you asking that the proposals be in? 00:41:35.558 --> 00:41:37.688 I believe it's like early May. 00:41:37.748 --> 00:41:42.783 I wanna say I can't quite remember the date, but I think it's early May That the deadline says. 00:41:43.023 --> 00:41:43.443 Alright. 00:41:43.443 --> 00:41:44.823 We'll be able to have that by then. 00:41:45.153 --> 00:41:48.118 Anything else, Alana, that we should be sharing that you'd like to share? 00:41:49.443 --> 00:41:49.863 No. 00:41:49.863 --> 00:41:54.493 I just so appreciate joining you today to talk and it's always nice to hear from you. 00:41:54.793 --> 00:41:56.083 Oh, a lot of the same. 00:41:56.083 --> 00:41:58.963 Thank you so much and hope to see you. 00:41:58.963 --> 00:42:00.643 Well, I think we'll see you in St. Louis. 00:42:01.843 --> 00:42:02.653 Oh, yes, right. 00:42:03.653 --> 00:42:04.403 Talk to you soon. 00:42:05.063 --> 00:42:05.573 Bye. 00:42:07.130 --> 00:42:09.770 If you're enjoying these podcasts, tell a friend. 00:42:10.070 --> 00:42:15.640 Also, please leave a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. 00:42:16.330 --> 00:42:26.410 You can follow me on BlueSky at gTabernetti, on Twitter, x at gTabernetti, and you can learn more about me and the work I do at my website, BlueSky. 00:42:26.820 --> 00:42:27.250 Tesscg. 00:42:28.240 --> 00:42:43.610 com, that's T E S S C G dot com, where you will also find information about ordering my books, Teach Fast, Focus Adaptable Structure Teaching, and Maximizing the Impact of Coaching Cycles.