WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:24.968 --> 00:00:27.078 Anke: Hello and welcome, Tessa. 00:00:27.138 --> 00:00:28.888 I'm very excited to have you here today. 00:00:30.493 --> 00:00:31.653 Tessa: Thank you for having me. 00:00:31.683 --> 00:00:33.063 I'm excited about that too. 00:00:34.023 --> 00:00:34.273 Anke: Awesome. 00:00:34.943 --> 00:00:35.313 Awesome. 00:00:35.613 --> 00:00:38.473 So, well, let's start out as we always start out. 00:00:38.483 --> 00:00:41.633 Let people know where in this lovely world you're based and 00:00:41.643 --> 00:00:43.193 what's your business with dogs? 00:00:44.683 --> 00:00:51.573 Tessa: I am based in Nova Scotia, Canada, which is, uh, for the last seven years. 00:00:51.743 --> 00:00:56.123 Before that, I originally I'm from the Netherlands and there after that in 00:00:56.123 --> 00:01:00.453 Norway, so I have traveled a little bit, but I'm here to stay and um, 00:01:00.483 --> 00:01:05.093 um, my business, I started here and my business is called Puzzle Dog. 00:01:06.803 --> 00:01:09.490 Anke: Well, you like it cold then, don't you? 00:01:09.490 --> 00:01:11.067 Tessa: I like, yeah, 00:01:11.067 --> 00:01:14.433 Anke: I always kind of scrape around the cold, cold edges. 00:01:16.913 --> 00:01:18.593 Tessa: I really don't mind winters, no. 00:01:19.663 --> 00:01:20.303 Anke: That's funny. 00:01:20.583 --> 00:01:21.983 So Puzzle Dog, bye! 00:01:23.748 --> 00:01:25.398 Well, I'm thinking puzzle. 00:01:25.398 --> 00:01:26.568 I'm thinking dog. 00:01:26.568 --> 00:01:29.868 So how did they come together? 00:01:29.868 --> 00:01:31.188 What does it mean? 00:01:31.858 --> 00:01:32.278 Tessa: Yeah. 00:01:32.998 --> 00:01:38.698 I think many, many people talk these days, talk about, um, a canine enrichment and, 00:01:38.728 --> 00:01:41.428 uh, most people are familiar with that. 00:01:41.428 --> 00:01:45.798 But, um, um, my puzzle, 00:01:47.543 --> 00:01:53.413 Puzzle craziness roots from a long time ago when my dog Puck was still 00:01:53.423 --> 00:01:55.873 a puppy, um, or like six months old. 00:01:56.403 --> 00:02:01.213 And I started to do puzzles with her using the Dutch method herschenwerk. 00:02:01.893 --> 00:02:06.103 So, and herschenwerk is an, uh, Translated, it's just 00:02:06.113 --> 00:02:08.263 brain work to make it easier. 00:02:08.403 --> 00:02:15.443 It's a method where we are really looking at connection and and at Making a puzzle 00:02:15.453 --> 00:02:17.843 session as beneficial as it can be. 00:02:18.603 --> 00:02:26.343 And, um, that's how I came to the name Puzzle Dog, where I help people, um, 00:02:26.383 --> 00:02:31.133 introduce that method with, um, to, yeah, to do puzzles with their dog. 00:02:31.293 --> 00:02:38.293 And it's mainly, um, homemade puzzles, but, um, of course I love the store bought 00:02:38.303 --> 00:02:40.343 puzzles as well, so we use those too. 00:02:41.148 --> 00:02:44.898 Um, and, and, and that's where the name comes from, and it's just, so it's all 00:02:44.898 --> 00:02:48.328 about mental, mental stimulation for dogs. 00:02:48.808 --> 00:02:49.418 Anke: That's so cool. 00:02:49.418 --> 00:02:50.428 It's such a cool name. 00:02:51.548 --> 00:02:54.368 It's like, it's kind of like, it's almost like you can't unsee it. 00:02:54.998 --> 00:02:57.138 Now, so I'm interested in a bunch of things. 00:02:57.808 --> 00:03:03.868 First of all, what's the main benefit of mental stimulation for a dog? 00:03:04.298 --> 00:03:07.503 And, Like, how does it actually work? 00:03:07.523 --> 00:03:10.323 Because in my mind, I looked at your Instagram account, right? 00:03:10.323 --> 00:03:12.993 And I'm like, seeing all these bits and bobs on the floor there. 00:03:13.033 --> 00:03:16.543 And I'm like, oh, that looks like Ace Free work, right? 00:03:16.543 --> 00:03:20.013 So what's, what's the 00:03:20.013 --> 00:03:21.433 Tessa: difference? 00:03:21.713 --> 00:03:26.103 The, the Hashaware method is, is not what you see on my Instagram right now. 00:03:27.863 --> 00:03:34.318 That's, uh, uh, That is a method where you just work with one puzzle or one thing 00:03:34.318 --> 00:03:41.048 to solve and where the, where the dog and the owner are both involved and where 00:03:41.048 --> 00:03:46.798 you work together and so you're, that's a thing that is, um, about bonding and, 00:03:46.798 --> 00:03:53.653 and the, I think, Activating the Seeking System, so releasing all those happy 00:03:53.653 --> 00:04:02.313 hormones, making the dog feel calmer, growing confidence, all those benefits. 00:04:02.323 --> 00:04:07.793 What you also see with H3 work, you also see with, um, with doing 00:04:07.873 --> 00:04:09.313 puzzles the Herschenberg way. 00:04:10.343 --> 00:04:19.213 What you see on my website is my sensory room, which actually after I, I, I 00:04:19.213 --> 00:04:23.603 started out as, uh, with Herschenberg, but then of course studied more. 00:04:23.603 --> 00:04:28.693 So I did a lot of A3 work courses, um, with Sarah Fisher, and then I 00:04:28.703 --> 00:04:30.903 became a dynamic dog practitioner. 00:04:31.203 --> 00:04:39.873 Um, and with all that knowledge, my, uh, My sensory room was developed, 00:04:39.873 --> 00:04:44.763 which is a mixture of everything I know. 00:04:45.123 --> 00:04:46.963 And that's what you see on my Instagram. 00:04:46.963 --> 00:04:47.263 So that's, 00:04:48.303 --> 00:04:51.423 Anke: so that means it's not surprising that it kind of looks 00:04:51.423 --> 00:04:56.573 a little similar, but it's, it's basically, so, I mean, let me kind of 00:04:58.588 --> 00:05:00.708 Repeat back to what I'm hearing here. 00:05:00.718 --> 00:05:05.838 So the difference between like Ace Freework, the idea is like you set 00:05:05.838 --> 00:05:08.568 all these different things up and the dog goes in there and you're only, 00:05:08.568 --> 00:05:11.958 and the whole point is that your dog can just potter around by themselves 00:05:12.298 --> 00:05:17.368 and your only job is to observe versus what you're saying in the puzzles. 00:05:17.378 --> 00:05:20.868 It's like, You are actually there, literally, like, you're 00:05:20.868 --> 00:05:22.078 kind of doing it together. 00:05:22.088 --> 00:05:25.418 It's like, if you, you're not just sending your kids in the playroom, 00:05:25.418 --> 00:05:27.298 you actually play with your kid. 00:05:28.098 --> 00:05:31.158 Tessa: Actually, in the sensory room, I do send the dog, the 00:05:31.158 --> 00:05:33.298 dog out and, and, and observe. 00:05:33.348 --> 00:05:37.848 But with Hersheywerk, so when I do one puzzle at a time, I am there. 00:05:38.158 --> 00:05:43.318 But if I set up my sensory room, it is more like a free work, but In 00:05:43.318 --> 00:05:47.358 Ace Freerunner, they also do, uh, interaction games, like counting 00:05:47.368 --> 00:05:51.248 games, those kind of interaction games with the dog, and I don't do that. 00:05:51.858 --> 00:05:55.788 So, I stay away from, from, from the dog. 00:05:55.788 --> 00:05:59.308 I really let them be on their own. 00:05:59.938 --> 00:06:01.288 Anke: To figure out the puzzles. 00:06:01.788 --> 00:06:05.598 Do you, have you ever had a case where like, if a dog's just not interested in 00:06:05.599 --> 00:06:10.078 the puzzle or, or like, how do you, like, do they know what to do with the thing? 00:06:10.508 --> 00:06:13.508 Like, if there's something on, on the floor, like, do they know what to do? 00:06:13.858 --> 00:06:15.238 Tessa: No, no, but we, we get it. 00:06:15.458 --> 00:06:17.368 It's a little bit mixed up, of course, now. 00:06:18.243 --> 00:06:21.363 When I have, um, uh, my Hairstromeric puzzles, I'm there. 00:06:21.383 --> 00:06:26.213 So I have only one puzzle between me and the dog and we can work on it together. 00:06:26.213 --> 00:06:28.333 So I start extremely easy. 00:06:28.343 --> 00:06:31.423 And that's actually the power of Hairstromeric, where we do it in 00:06:31.423 --> 00:06:33.623 tiny little steps, look at the dog. 00:06:33.623 --> 00:06:34.523 What can you handle? 00:06:34.523 --> 00:06:35.533 What can you solve? 00:06:35.733 --> 00:06:37.373 When do you get frustrated? 00:06:37.374 --> 00:06:40.003 Uh, do we need to take a step back? 00:06:40.003 --> 00:06:41.703 Do we need to take a step forward? 00:06:41.733 --> 00:06:42.963 Can you go faster? 00:06:43.433 --> 00:06:49.693 Um, and, and because The human is so close, um, you can really look at the 00:06:49.703 --> 00:06:55.493 tiny little signs the dog gives you and then you're able to step in when 00:06:55.493 --> 00:06:58.153 needed and back out when needed too. 00:06:58.293 --> 00:07:03.083 But it's, it's really what, what you will see if you, if you would look at, 00:07:03.603 --> 00:07:08.943 My, the first videos I took with my dog Puck, um, we were communicating in big 00:07:08.963 --> 00:07:14.883 words to say that like, like, we needed a lot of things to communicate and now 00:07:14.883 --> 00:07:21.303 it's like her tiny ear is like wiggling or her, her body says something and I know 00:07:21.303 --> 00:07:23.623 what she means and it's the same for her. 00:07:24.473 --> 00:07:26.673 Fresh record on my phone. 00:07:26.683 --> 00:07:33.663 She knows she can start and in the earlier days, I told 00:07:33.663 --> 00:07:35.353 her you can you can start now. 00:07:35.353 --> 00:07:40.083 And so we had in those ten years we do this together. 00:07:40.083 --> 00:07:40.823 We have. 00:07:43.053 --> 00:07:47.823 optimized our communication in such a way that we are able to read 00:07:47.823 --> 00:07:50.253 each other in the, in tiny letters. 00:07:51.293 --> 00:07:52.333 Anke: Oh, I love that. 00:07:52.383 --> 00:07:52.893 I love that. 00:07:52.894 --> 00:07:57.183 And I mean, that makes, that makes, I mean, it feels, it makes a lot of 00:07:57.193 --> 00:08:01.273 sense because in a way what you're just describing, it sounds like, oh, so you 00:08:01.273 --> 00:08:06.393 were setting your dog up for lots and lots of little successes along the way. 00:08:06.423 --> 00:08:10.683 And And so the little dopamine hits, but I think you also get to 00:08:10.693 --> 00:08:14.823 know each other and understand each other on a whole different level. 00:08:14.823 --> 00:08:20.563 And that would translate outside of the playroom as well, don't it? 00:08:20.953 --> 00:08:21.893 Tessa: Yeah, immediately. 00:08:21.893 --> 00:08:22.313 Yes. 00:08:22.343 --> 00:08:22.653 Yes. 00:08:22.673 --> 00:08:28.123 You know each other so well that you, and you are also so focused on 00:08:30.493 --> 00:08:31.793 on that communication. 00:08:31.793 --> 00:08:35.303 So even if you don't know what your dog tells you yet, because it's 00:08:35.303 --> 00:08:39.113 something new, then you know that they are telling you something. 00:08:39.114 --> 00:08:46.283 So you are open for that communication once you have learned to look for it. 00:08:46.293 --> 00:08:49.623 So, and that translates into everything in life. 00:08:51.693 --> 00:08:59.403 If we are in the mood of always training our dogs and always telling them what to 00:08:59.403 --> 00:09:05.643 do, um, then our focus is not that much on what they communicate back to us. 00:09:05.644 --> 00:09:07.133 Yeah, that makes sense. 00:09:07.133 --> 00:09:10.483 And, and, and with Herzberg, it's their, their thing. 00:09:10.843 --> 00:09:15.843 And we, we are literally sitting on a, uh, a couple of square meters and, 00:09:15.873 --> 00:09:18.223 and, and communicating with each other. 00:09:18.733 --> 00:09:21.733 And, and that's the beautiful thing about it, that you are really, 00:09:21.793 --> 00:09:26.743 will really be able to learn to, to get to know your dog better. 00:09:27.238 --> 00:09:31.448 And I have had people that have an amazing bond with their dog 00:09:31.458 --> 00:09:36.638 already are like, I didn't think it would become better, but it did. 00:09:37.798 --> 00:09:39.298 Anke: Wow, wow, that's incredible. 00:09:39.478 --> 00:09:43.758 So what do people, do people usually have specific. 00:09:44.188 --> 00:09:47.698 Outcome in mind, like if somebody comes to you or it says Tessa, 00:09:47.948 --> 00:09:50.258 can we do some puzzle dog work? 00:09:51.338 --> 00:09:53.018 I want to do a puzzle dog with my dog. 00:09:53.228 --> 00:09:58.378 Like is there usually, is that, is it just because of curiosity or do they 00:09:58.378 --> 00:10:00.738 come and say, hey, can this help with X? 00:10:01.068 --> 00:10:03.638 So what does usually inspire somebody to come to you? 00:10:05.088 --> 00:10:11.388 Tessa: Most of the time it's people that are interested to learn more, um, to 00:10:11.388 --> 00:10:16.748 get more of the benefits, maybe because their dog is always tearing stuff apart 00:10:16.758 --> 00:10:25.053 or is just throwing things around or, um, They don't know how to make the session 00:10:25.643 --> 00:10:31.253 relaxed and calm and in a way that they are actually learning from each other. 00:10:31.253 --> 00:10:35.433 So they struggle with setting up a puzzle session. 00:10:35.733 --> 00:10:42.923 But I also guide people who have senior dogs, for example, that are, um, changing 00:10:42.933 --> 00:10:48.293 their ways in life and that are, uh, yeah, harder to understand because they 00:10:48.293 --> 00:10:53.273 were, used to be like this and now all of a sudden they see changes going on. 00:10:53.333 --> 00:10:56.413 And I, I created a program for that. 00:10:56.893 --> 00:11:03.223 And also for dogs that have physical issues, like they have, um, had surgery 00:11:03.233 --> 00:11:06.873 or they have Something that stays there. 00:11:07.173 --> 00:11:12.163 What is, what is, um, yeah, making them not be able to do a lot of 00:11:12.163 --> 00:11:14.823 walks or, or less physical exercise. 00:11:15.223 --> 00:11:20.953 And, um, people always say, yeah, you just have to do enrichment with those dogs. 00:11:21.213 --> 00:11:25.923 And I have something like, oh, but you need to do that safely because you can't. 00:11:26.043 --> 00:11:31.953 Can actually re hurt a dog when you just give them a treat ball on the slippery 00:11:31.953 --> 00:11:34.023 floor and let them figure it out. 00:11:35.373 --> 00:11:35.843 Yeah. 00:11:36.413 --> 00:11:40.883 Anke: So, I mean, are there different kind of gadgets or tools or, you know, 00:11:40.883 --> 00:11:45.123 like how would you say if I'm now going and like, okay, look, you know, Mrs. 00:11:45.163 --> 00:11:49.613 Goofball Leia, you know, I would love to see what she does because she's actually 00:11:49.613 --> 00:11:53.513 quite like, usually in normal life, you always think, boy, that dog's too. 00:11:54.343 --> 00:11:56.163 Too clever for our own good, right? 00:11:56.503 --> 00:12:00.523 So if I'm thinking, hey, we want to do a puzzle, like, where would I start? 00:12:00.543 --> 00:12:01.683 Like, what do I need? 00:12:01.683 --> 00:12:03.133 Where, how do I go about it? 00:12:03.153 --> 00:12:04.383 Could I do it on my own? 00:12:04.383 --> 00:12:07.883 Or would I need, kind of, would I need you to help me set it 00:12:07.883 --> 00:12:09.443 up so I don't do it wrong? 00:12:09.473 --> 00:12:10.703 So, what would you say? 00:12:11.548 --> 00:12:12.348 How to get started? 00:12:12.428 --> 00:12:18.458 Tessa: The best thing to get started is I gave you a link to a little mini course 00:12:19.228 --> 00:12:25.068 and that actually describes how do you set up, how do you structure your session, 00:12:25.088 --> 00:12:27.088 and what materials can you think about. 00:12:27.308 --> 00:12:33.368 So, um, That little, that will help you a lot to just get started with your dog. 00:12:33.938 --> 00:12:38.428 My number one material to use is just a towel. 00:12:39.418 --> 00:12:45.843 So, um, if people want to get started and, and, um, um, I always tell them 00:12:45.843 --> 00:12:51.023 just grab a towel and don't start with the famous towel roll because you'll 00:12:51.023 --> 00:12:56.983 probably see your dog just, um, biting holes in it or shaking it or whatever. 00:12:57.913 --> 00:12:59.853 And that's because you didn't give the manual. 00:13:00.403 --> 00:13:06.678 Um, Um, and, and so I like to have the towel flat on the floor with a 00:13:06.678 --> 00:13:10.268 tiny little bit wrinkles in there, just sprinkle some treats and 00:13:10.268 --> 00:13:12.448 let the dog just sniff those out. 00:13:12.728 --> 00:13:15.768 And then you start to scrunch it up more and more and more. 00:13:15.768 --> 00:13:18.538 So the sniffing becomes more and more intense. 00:13:19.618 --> 00:13:25.668 I like with the Hirszenberg method, you like to stay under the high excitement 00:13:26.098 --> 00:13:34.953 threshold, strong emotions, what, whether they are happy or Frustrated or angry 00:13:34.953 --> 00:13:39.113 or whatever they are, strong emotions don't help you when you want to think. 00:13:40.793 --> 00:13:46.023 And, um, so when you are a little bit frustrated, you are really 00:13:46.023 --> 00:13:47.803 in the mode to solve something. 00:13:48.103 --> 00:13:51.593 But if you tip over the edge, It doesn't help anymore. 00:13:51.603 --> 00:13:56.893 So, uh, that's where, that's where I try to look at where is this dog? 00:13:56.893 --> 00:13:58.133 How does this dog feel? 00:13:58.133 --> 00:14:02.083 And do I need to make it more difficult or do I need to make it easier? 00:14:03.263 --> 00:14:04.093 Anke: That makes sense. 00:14:04.093 --> 00:14:04.623 That makes sense. 00:14:04.853 --> 00:14:10.193 So you see in your experience, so how often does somebody like kind of, is that 00:14:10.193 --> 00:14:14.743 something you do every day or do you think like, oh, you know, every now and then in 00:14:14.743 --> 00:14:18.143 conjunction with something else, or how do you, what, what would you recommend? 00:14:19.198 --> 00:14:22.818 Tessa: It depends on the, on the, the schedule of the humans themselves. 00:14:22.828 --> 00:14:29.368 I always say do something what fits you, because if you do it, uh, if you, if you 00:14:29.388 --> 00:14:35.168 think I have to do this daily or I have to do this twice daily or three times 00:14:35.168 --> 00:14:40.418 a week, then it's the have to, which takes the fun out of it for you yourself. 00:14:40.968 --> 00:14:43.128 So it needs to fit in your own schedule. 00:14:43.508 --> 00:14:51.873 Um, and, We, uh, we developed a, uh, uh, uh, a system that every coffee 00:14:51.873 --> 00:14:57.613 time and tea time, we are demanding puzzles in this household, but that's 00:14:57.613 --> 00:15:02.483 just how we do it, and I never tell people that they need to do it the same 00:15:02.493 --> 00:15:07.433 way, because if it doesn't fit in your schedule, it's not going to happen, and 00:15:07.433 --> 00:15:12.003 it's not going to be fun, and you're not going to be able to just be there. 00:15:12.368 --> 00:15:13.688 Anke: Yeah, that makes sense. 00:15:13.948 --> 00:15:15.388 So how long is a session? 00:15:15.418 --> 00:15:17.118 Like, I would imagine it wouldn't be that long. 00:15:17.118 --> 00:15:20.178 Like, you're not sitting there for two hours, banging all about. 00:15:21.638 --> 00:15:24.578 Tessa: I would say anything between 5 and 20 minutes. 00:15:25.133 --> 00:15:25.653 Yeah. 00:15:26.833 --> 00:15:27.763 Anke: And so is that true? 00:15:27.763 --> 00:15:32.093 Is that like, I heard that the, you know, that like sort of when, when dogs 00:15:32.103 --> 00:15:37.623 like sniff and are engaged like that, it tires them out more than a long walk. 00:15:37.633 --> 00:15:39.823 Is that your, is that your experience as well? 00:15:40.773 --> 00:15:42.703 Tessa: It tires them out in a different way. 00:15:42.833 --> 00:15:48.598 So the one is the physical, uh, fatigue and the other one is mental fatigue. 00:15:48.608 --> 00:15:56.478 So, um, I, I wouldn't replace one with the other because they dogs need both. 00:15:57.208 --> 00:16:01.098 Uh, you want a strong and healthy body as well, but in on a rainy day, you 00:16:01.108 --> 00:16:07.328 surely can do an extra session or, or whatever, just to, uh, make sure you. 00:16:07.618 --> 00:16:09.268 Get some fun activity together. 00:16:09.798 --> 00:16:14.638 Anke: Yeah, so it's, it's about more than anything about the 00:16:14.638 --> 00:16:18.058 bond, about the communication, about understanding each other. 00:16:18.108 --> 00:16:23.628 It's about the dog being able to, I don't know, like, relax and 00:16:23.958 --> 00:16:25.968 kind of self regulate in a sense. 00:16:26.448 --> 00:16:29.548 And, and basically everybody's having a bit of fun with it. 00:16:30.363 --> 00:16:35.313 Tessa: Yes, yeah, and that's what you want to try to do, and a great example 00:16:35.313 --> 00:16:41.183 is like, for example, the adolescence dogs, where we humans are having a 00:16:41.933 --> 00:16:48.003 time that it's hard to, to just stay positive at times, right, because those 00:16:48.013 --> 00:16:52.153 brains go all over the place, and it's hard for us to not get frustrated with, 00:16:52.243 --> 00:16:54.263 with a lot of our adolescent dogs. 00:16:54.593 --> 00:16:59.883 And then a herschenberg session, where you don't ask them to do 00:16:59.883 --> 00:17:01.023 something where they have to. 00:17:01.353 --> 00:17:02.913 where they have to do something. 00:17:02.913 --> 00:17:08.563 So then you can just find out what does work for this dog and how does 00:17:08.733 --> 00:17:11.283 he, is he able to relax a little bit? 00:17:11.923 --> 00:17:16.093 And, and the human can just be with him and enjoy that too. 00:17:16.093 --> 00:17:20.663 And, and actually also see, Oh, I do have a great dog here. 00:17:22.093 --> 00:17:24.553 We get out on the other side as well. 00:17:25.063 --> 00:17:25.943 Anke: That's so true. 00:17:25.953 --> 00:17:26.363 That's so true. 00:17:26.583 --> 00:17:29.203 Actually, it's funny because I literally spoke to somebody yesterday who 00:17:29.203 --> 00:17:33.183 said, you know, of course, I've got a lovely, whatever the dog was, can't 00:17:33.183 --> 00:17:37.193 remember, but it's like, well, but it's still like in that teenage phase, 00:17:37.503 --> 00:17:39.073 you know, like it's the right nutcase. 00:17:39.074 --> 00:17:39.698 Yeah. 00:17:39.698 --> 00:17:40.945 Tessa: So that 00:17:40.945 --> 00:17:42.683 Anke: would help a lot then. 00:17:43.093 --> 00:17:43.333 Tessa: Yeah. 00:17:43.333 --> 00:17:47.913 And those are the moments that you, it's sometimes so hard to see the fun dog you 00:17:47.943 --> 00:17:50.288 thought you had, because it's, it's, it's. 00:17:50.498 --> 00:17:52.768 Can be so such a struggle to deal with them. 00:17:53.108 --> 00:17:59.578 And then if you have a, uh, that you use the way I use, then you can just 00:17:59.618 --> 00:18:05.318 start to see those 10 minutes in a day that you really have an awesome 00:18:05.328 --> 00:18:09.018 dog and that you will, that you eventually will get out of it again. 00:18:09.328 --> 00:18:10.138 Anke: Yeah, I love that. 00:18:10.238 --> 00:18:10.648 I love that. 00:18:10.988 --> 00:18:14.248 So you mentioned the little mini course that I've of course seen. 00:18:14.498 --> 00:18:18.518 Um, let people know where they can, I mean obviously the link to the mini course, 00:18:18.518 --> 00:18:19.958 we're going to pop that in the show notes. 00:18:20.168 --> 00:18:23.818 Where can people go to get in touch with you to find out more about your work? 00:18:24.558 --> 00:18:31.863 Tessa: Um, the best way to find me is on, uh, on My Facebook page and of 00:18:31.863 --> 00:18:34.413 course on my website, puzzle dog.ca. 00:18:34.713 --> 00:18:39.153 And I also have the Instagram account, which is called Puzzle Puck because 00:18:39.153 --> 00:18:45.363 Puzzle Dog was taken and, and I always call my dog Puzzle Puck as a hashtag. 00:18:45.363 --> 00:18:47.418 So that's what in Instagram became 00:18:49.323 --> 00:18:50.043 . Anke: That's awesome. 00:18:50.043 --> 00:18:50.583 I love it. 00:18:50.913 --> 00:18:51.993 Well, thank you so much. 00:18:51.993 --> 00:18:52.923 This was delightful. 00:18:52.923 --> 00:18:56.433 I'm gonna almost like, oh, I can't wait to see what Mrs. 00:18:56.433 --> 00:18:57.843 Goofball layer does with that. 00:19:00.178 --> 00:19:00.948 Tessa: Me, me too. 00:19:01.528 --> 00:19:01.678 Send 00:19:01.788 --> 00:19:02.438 Anke: me a video. 00:19:02.439 --> 00:19:03.878 I will, I will. 00:19:03.888 --> 00:19:06.898 Thank you so much and I'll have to talk to you again soon. 00:19:07.618 --> 00:19:08.278 Yes, thank you. 00:19:10.159 --> 00:19:11.389 Thanks so much for listening. 00:19:11.909 --> 00:19:16.209 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:19:16.309 --> 00:19:18.089 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:19:18.879 --> 00:19:22.369 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:28.369 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:19:28.469 --> 00:19:30.839 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:34.569 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:19:34.989 --> 00:19:36.129 I'd love an introduction. 00:19:36.609 --> 00:19:38.439 Email me at Anke. 00:19:38.709 --> 00:19:42.944 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.