WEBVTT

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A brand new exploit impacting iPhones.

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The FBI has resumed buying location data

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and Google's update to installing third

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party apps.

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All this and more coming up on this

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week in privacy number forty five.

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So stay tuned.

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I don't.

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Welcome back to This Week in Privacy,

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our weekly series where we discuss the

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latest updates with what we're working on

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within the Privacy Guides community and

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this week's top stories in the data

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privacy and cybersecurity space.

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I am Nate,

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and with me this week is Jordan.

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Jordan, it's been a while.

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How are you?

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I'm good.

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Just excited to be here and cover the

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latest news.

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Yeah, it's good to have you back.

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Privacy Guides, for those who don't know,

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is a nonprofit which researches and shares

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privacy-related information and

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facilitates a community on our forum and

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matrix where people can ask questions and

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get advice about staying private online

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and preserving their digital rights.

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With that,

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we will launch into the biggest news in

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the privacy and security space from the

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past week.

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And Jordan is going to tell us all

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about hundreds of millions of iPhones that

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can be hacked with a new tool found

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in the wild.

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Yes, that's right.

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So basically there's a story here from

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Wired.

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A powerful iPhone hacking technique known

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as Dark Sword, one word,

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has been discovered in use by Russian

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hackers.

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It can take over devices running iOS that

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simply visit infected websites.

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so uh reading into this story here iphone

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hacking techniques have sometimes been

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described almost like rare and elusive

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animals hackers have used them so

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stealthily and carefully against such a

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small number of hand-picked targets

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they're only rarely seen in the wild now

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a recent spat of espionage and cyber

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criminal campaigns have deployed those

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same phone takeovers tools

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Embedded infected websites to

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indiscriminately hack phones by the

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thousands.

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You might have to take over here, Nate,

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because the article is paywalled for me.

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Oh no, that's unfortunate.

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Okay.

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Um, yeah.

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So, uh,

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basically this article came or this

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disclosure, I should say,

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came from Google as well as I verify

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and another firm called lookout.

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They revealed this on Wednesday and they

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said that this isn't really a, well,

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I guess it kind of is.

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Um, this isn't an exploit.

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How do I word this?

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This is an exploit on iPhones,

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but also not,

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because they're actually infecting

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websites.

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And then the websites are the ones who

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are delivering this, again,

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not even payload.

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Further down on the article,

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it says that this is actually one of

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those

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those malwares that can be defeated with a

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reboot, when your device becomes infected,

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it's able to grab as much data as

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it possibly can.

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And because it's not persistent,

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it's actually pretty hard to...

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for these cybersecurity companies to trace

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evidence of it.

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It's not like the typical Pegasus or those

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kind of more advanced malwares that we see

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where there's things that they can look

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for.

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I think it's actually right here.

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It uses fileless malware.

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Hold on.

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Okay, yeah.

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Rather than install spyware that persists

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on users' phones,

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Dark Sword uses stealthier techniques that

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are more often seen in fileless malware

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that typically target Windows devices.

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They hijack the legitimate process on an

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iPhone's operating system to steal data.

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And then this is a quote from one

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of iVerify's people.

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It says,

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instead of a spyware payload to brute

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force your way through the file system,

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which leaves tons of artifacts of

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exploitation that are pretty easy to

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detect,

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this just uses system processes the way

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they're meant to be used,

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and it leaves far fewer traces.

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Um, so yeah,

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the upside there is that it does not

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persist after reboot.

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Uh,

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but instead it steals data from the phone

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within the first few minutes after it's

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hacked,

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which is called a smash and grab approach,

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or at least that's what this guy calls

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it.

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So it's very, um,

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it does the damage very quickly,

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I should say.

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And, uh, yeah, so I guess the,

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The pro and con here,

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and just in case anyone's wondering,

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because earlier this week or late last

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week,

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we also saw there was a malware called

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Karuna, which appears to be an iPhone,

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not state-sponsored.

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How do I explain it?

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So for those who don't know,

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a lot of the time we see...

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We see companies,

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big companies that will spend millions of

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dollars to either find zero days or they

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will go to places like DEF CON and

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Black Hat and they will they will pay

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big money if people there say, you know,

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they do a presentation.

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They're like, hey,

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I found this this exploit.

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And it's interesting,

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and it's never been seen before.

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They'll go up to those people and be

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like, hey, next time, give us a call,

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and we'll pay you to kind of keep

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it quiet.

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I believe it's Nicole Perlroth has a great

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book called This is the Way They Tell

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Me the World Ends that's all about the

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zero-day market and everything.

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So if you want to know more,

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definitely check that out.

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there was an employee of one of those

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firms who was accused of selling access to

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these tools to Russia.

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Uh, I believe he was convicted recently.

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And then around the same time we saw

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this other malware or this other exploit

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called Karuna,

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which was making the rounds.

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This does not appear to be Karuna,

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but they do have evidence to believe that

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this came from one of those zero day

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resellers firms.

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Um,

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Which, you know what, yeah,

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I'll go ahead and touch on that now.

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So they talk about – and I know

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I've said this in the past.

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Like when Pegasus first came to light and

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everything, a lot of people were like, oh,

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no, how do I know I'm infected?

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And we used to say like you're probably

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not because this is not something they're

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going to burn on any random person.

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They're going to use this on like lawyers

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and activists and political figures,

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journalists, dissidents.

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Um, the thing is this dark sword one,

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I verify as Cole argues that the fact

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that it was used so brazenly with no

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real attempt to prevent its discovery

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suggests that hacking techniques are now

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attainable on the black market.

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Uh,

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attainable enough that hackers are willing

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to use them indiscriminately,

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even if the result is their exposure.

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He says, if one gets burned,

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I'll just go buy another one.

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Uh,

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they know that there's more where this

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came from.

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So, um,

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I still think the risk of falling to

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some of these malware is pretty low,

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but it does seem to be increasing,

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which...

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unfortunately is something we see

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historically.

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I mean, we see this all across technology,

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right?

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Like when computers, computers alone,

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when computers first came out,

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it was like really expensive and only rich

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people had them.

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And now you can buy a Chromebook for

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a couple hundred bucks,

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which I understand is still relatively

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expensive for some people.

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But the point is the price came down

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and now it's something that's much more

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attainable to the average person.

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So that does appear to be what's happening

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with malware here.

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Now,

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the last thing I want to touch on

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that was in the story,

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that many of you may have noticed.

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This only works on iOS,

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which is because Apple changed their

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naming scheme with the latest iOS.

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So this current iOS is iOS because it

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is it would be iOS if they hadn't

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renamed it.

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So this is the previous major version of

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iOS.

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However,

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Apple confirms that about a quarter of all

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their devices are still running iOS.

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That could be for any number of reasons.

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Liquid Glass was really, really unpopular,

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so a lot of people did not like

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iOS.

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A lot of people choose not to update

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because they don't want the AI features,

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which I think might actually be in iOS

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I could be wrong there, but yeah.

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Apple, as another explanation,

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for some reason,

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Apple is really bad at automatic updates.

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We were talking about this in a group

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chat the other day, actually.

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It's like every time I go to the

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app store on my iPhone,

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it's got like a bunch of apps that

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haven't updated,

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even though the update came out like three

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or four days ago.

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And you have to update those.

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There was a...

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Actually, if you're an Apple user,

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there was a background security update

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that just came out earlier this week that

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most people,

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it did not automatically install.

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So go check for that.

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It's just, yeah, Apple's,

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so that could be part of it.

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And just for context, there are,

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I checked, according to one source,

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there's one point five billion iOS devices

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out there right now in active use.

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So a quarter of those is still like

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three hundred million,

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which is like the entire population of the

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U.S.

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So even though this is an older iOS

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device,

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it still affects hundreds of millions of

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people potentially.

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And if this has fallen into the hands

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of the average...

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What's the word I'm looking for?

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The average cyber criminal, then...

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What I was saying earlier about they're

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only going to use this on dissidents and

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journalists,

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and unfortunately that does not seem to be

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the case.

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So it is really important to keep your

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stuff updated.

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It is...

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Yeah, I don't know.

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I think that's all I got to say

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is it is really important to keep your

00:09:44.301 --> 00:09:44.941
stuff updated.

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And I see some people in the comments,

00:09:47.302 --> 00:09:47.982
personal pet peeve,

00:09:48.043 --> 00:09:49.063
I see some people in the comments

00:09:49.083 --> 00:09:50.043
sometimes that are like, well,

00:09:50.063 --> 00:09:51.544
I'm still on Android twelve because I

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don't want the AI stuff.

00:09:52.785 --> 00:09:53.225
And it's like,

00:09:53.667 --> 00:09:55.327
I respect that you don't want the AI

00:09:55.347 --> 00:09:56.368
stuff and I'm not telling you you should

00:09:56.388 --> 00:09:56.989
just embrace it.

00:09:57.009 --> 00:09:57.568
But at that point,

00:09:57.609 --> 00:09:58.730
maybe you should be looking into like

00:09:59.330 --> 00:10:01.010
alternative ROMs or moving to a more

00:10:01.071 --> 00:10:02.871
trusted OS because, yeah,

00:10:02.912 --> 00:10:04.452
sometimes these security updates really

00:10:04.533 --> 00:10:05.474
are important.

00:10:06.562 --> 00:10:08.865
um i think that's kind of the the

00:10:08.884 --> 00:10:10.186
bare bones of the story and that's all

00:10:10.265 --> 00:10:11.788
i got did you have anything to add

00:10:11.807 --> 00:10:14.730
that i missed um i think it is

00:10:14.789 --> 00:10:17.533
important that we talk about specifically

00:10:18.092 --> 00:10:20.615
like what this attack actually looked like

00:10:20.695 --> 00:10:22.777
so if you don't know this is like

00:10:22.817 --> 00:10:24.839
sort of i guess uh i verify was

00:10:24.859 --> 00:10:27.041
saying this is like a watering hole attack

00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:29.863
so basically that means it's an attack

00:10:29.883 --> 00:10:32.445
strategy where basically an attacker will

00:10:33.634 --> 00:10:36.701
find websites that users commonly visit

00:10:37.602 --> 00:10:40.710
and then use those websites to distribute

00:10:40.909 --> 00:10:41.410
malware.

00:10:41.912 --> 00:10:43.475
So in this case, it was

00:10:45.307 --> 00:10:47.207
The attack was against users running iOS,

00:10:47.347 --> 00:10:49.870
eighteen point four to eighteen point six

00:10:49.929 --> 00:10:50.629
point two.

00:10:51.149 --> 00:10:53.250
So just to be clear,

00:10:53.432 --> 00:10:55.253
the if you're fully up to date on

00:10:55.572 --> 00:10:57.533
iOS eighteen, you should be on, I think,

00:10:58.033 --> 00:11:01.316
iOS eighteen point seven point something.

00:11:01.875 --> 00:11:04.258
So this didn't affect like even if you're

00:11:04.278 --> 00:11:05.278
running iOS eighteen,

00:11:05.717 --> 00:11:06.839
it may not affect you.

00:11:07.078 --> 00:11:08.299
So just be aware of that.

00:11:08.899 --> 00:11:11.402
And the attack itself was basically

00:11:13.688 --> 00:11:15.789
as far as iverify is stating here it

00:11:15.830 --> 00:11:19.432
was a you know an attack from russia

00:11:20.011 --> 00:11:26.755
and it was specifically um a used on

00:11:26.895 --> 00:11:28.716
government websites so ukrainian

00:11:28.756 --> 00:11:31.479
government websites um so that was any

00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:35.780
website ending with gov.ua so basically

00:11:35.821 --> 00:11:37.402
they were able to um

00:11:39.301 --> 00:11:42.782
compromise Ukrainian government's servers

00:11:42.981 --> 00:11:48.663
and basically put this malware out there

00:11:48.744 --> 00:11:49.644
onto these devices.

00:11:49.764 --> 00:11:51.225
And especially because it was a government

00:11:51.245 --> 00:11:54.686
website, it was very, you know,

00:11:55.265 --> 00:11:57.046
no one from another country is going to

00:11:57.066 --> 00:11:58.246
be visiting that website.

00:11:58.706 --> 00:12:01.287
So it's a pretty effective way to infect

00:12:01.386 --> 00:12:02.528
a lot of people's devices.

00:12:03.347 --> 00:12:04.729
And I think, you know,

00:12:04.769 --> 00:12:07.190
staying up to date is important as well.

00:12:07.370 --> 00:12:08.951
But I think, you know,

00:12:10.011 --> 00:12:13.293
I think a lot of people probably wouldn't

00:12:13.313 --> 00:12:14.833
have been affected by this if they were

00:12:14.854 --> 00:12:15.815
running lockdown mode,

00:12:15.835 --> 00:12:17.475
because it does sound like this is

00:12:19.701 --> 00:12:23.102
probably that would probably block the uh

00:12:23.123 --> 00:12:24.783
the exploit chain because in a lot of

00:12:24.823 --> 00:12:28.065
cases this this exploit itself was written

00:12:28.085 --> 00:12:31.446
in javascript and the exploit according to

00:12:31.625 --> 00:12:34.307
iverify it was uh it used six

00:12:34.346 --> 00:12:36.827
vulnerabilities across two exploit chains

00:12:37.528 --> 00:12:41.509
so um i think you know

00:12:42.687 --> 00:12:43.948
Staying up to date is important,

00:12:43.989 --> 00:12:46.230
but also minimizing your attack surface.

00:12:46.289 --> 00:12:47.451
So in this case,

00:12:47.630 --> 00:12:49.652
not using all these third party, um,

00:12:49.672 --> 00:12:52.333
you know, JavaScript libraries,

00:12:52.573 --> 00:12:54.054
locking that down with lockdown mode,

00:12:54.095 --> 00:12:55.755
that's gonna definitely protect you in

00:12:55.775 --> 00:12:56.296
that case.

00:12:56.836 --> 00:12:58.197
Same thing with Android, right?

00:12:58.216 --> 00:13:01.278
You can, I know on Graphene OS, they,

00:13:01.499 --> 00:13:03.679
they use like MT on the browser and

00:13:03.921 --> 00:13:05.160
a bunch of other protections.

00:13:05.221 --> 00:13:07.543
So I think reducing the attack surface and

00:13:07.743 --> 00:13:09.943
just in time is also commonly exploited

00:13:09.984 --> 00:13:10.705
JavaScript.

00:13:10.985 --> 00:13:11.065
Um,

00:13:12.457 --> 00:13:14.600
So I think disabling a lot of those

00:13:14.821 --> 00:13:17.143
things can help, but obviously, you know,

00:13:17.244 --> 00:13:20.067
updating your device is important,

00:13:20.287 --> 00:13:24.511
but I think, you know, it's usually the,

00:13:24.851 --> 00:13:25.072
uh,

00:13:25.812 --> 00:13:29.437
these things that like are there for like

00:13:29.557 --> 00:13:31.559
web convenience and are actually there to

00:13:31.659 --> 00:13:32.260
protect you.

00:13:32.520 --> 00:13:32.961
Like the.

00:13:34.605 --> 00:13:36.707
they use for rendering WebGL stuff,

00:13:36.748 --> 00:13:38.070
that that can be exploited.

00:13:38.250 --> 00:13:40.212
I think it's important to be aware of

00:13:40.273 --> 00:13:43.538
that and not to just trust every single

00:13:44.832 --> 00:13:46.153
website just because it's a government

00:13:46.193 --> 00:13:46.874
website, right?

00:13:47.094 --> 00:13:47.234
Um,

00:13:47.695 --> 00:13:49.956
so I think there was another thing that

00:13:49.975 --> 00:13:50.937
they also said, um,

00:13:50.976 --> 00:13:53.498
basically because they didn't obfuscate

00:13:53.538 --> 00:13:55.418
the JavaScript, um,

00:13:55.479 --> 00:13:57.120
it basically was sitting on the website

00:13:57.200 --> 00:13:59.841
and a bunch of other groups were stealing

00:13:59.881 --> 00:14:01.363
the code to use as well.

00:14:01.503 --> 00:14:04.323
So, uh, apparently according to iVerify,

00:14:04.524 --> 00:14:04.644
um,

00:14:04.703 --> 00:14:07.005
a Chinese criminal group was also using

00:14:07.046 --> 00:14:10.067
this, um, Dark Sword and Karuna exploit,

00:14:10.488 --> 00:14:10.607
um,

00:14:12.107 --> 00:14:13.850
So yeah,

00:14:14.291 --> 00:14:16.914
just be on the lookout because people are

00:14:16.934 --> 00:14:17.676
definitely using this.

00:14:17.716 --> 00:14:18.817
So make sure you're updated.

00:14:18.878 --> 00:14:20.298
Make sure you're using lockdown mode if

00:14:20.340 --> 00:14:22.282
you're thinking you might be a target of

00:14:22.322 --> 00:14:22.543
this.

00:14:22.602 --> 00:14:24.365
But it does seem like this is like

00:14:24.384 --> 00:14:26.768
a very large

00:14:29.167 --> 00:14:30.508
like they're trying to target a lot of

00:14:30.548 --> 00:14:31.187
people with this.

00:14:31.248 --> 00:14:34.769
It's not like a specifically, um,

00:14:34.830 --> 00:14:36.530
it's not specifically targeted towards a

00:14:36.571 --> 00:14:37.451
single individual.

00:14:37.791 --> 00:14:38.491
Um,

00:14:38.511 --> 00:14:40.513
so I'm sure that there's people in the

00:14:40.552 --> 00:14:41.133
military,

00:14:41.273 --> 00:14:42.854
in the Ukrainian military who probably

00:14:42.874 --> 00:14:44.815
visit those websites who unfortunately

00:14:44.835 --> 00:14:46.855
have been, um, compromised.

00:14:46.956 --> 00:14:48.417
So it's,

00:14:49.490 --> 00:14:50.091
it's a wide,

00:14:50.171 --> 00:14:52.091
they're casting a wide net to, to,

00:14:52.393 --> 00:14:54.734
to get access to people's, um, devices.

00:14:54.793 --> 00:14:58.515
But I think, uh, I think the,

00:14:58.535 --> 00:15:00.037
the estimate that they've given on here

00:15:00.096 --> 00:15:01.376
was on the, on the,

00:15:01.777 --> 00:15:02.677
on the high side.

00:15:02.717 --> 00:15:04.058
I think I saw a couple of other

00:15:04.078 --> 00:15:05.558
websites saying it was closer to two

00:15:05.599 --> 00:15:07.179
hundred million devices affected.

00:15:07.841 --> 00:15:08.740
So I don't know.

00:15:08.980 --> 00:15:13.464
I think it's, yeah,

00:15:13.744 --> 00:15:14.823
just be on the lookout for that.

00:15:14.884 --> 00:15:15.924
I don't really have too much more to

00:15:15.985 --> 00:15:16.065
add.

00:15:16.085 --> 00:15:17.164
Do you have anything else you want to

00:15:17.566 --> 00:15:18.066
add here, Nate?

00:15:19.696 --> 00:15:20.416
No.

00:15:20.515 --> 00:15:20.696
Yeah,

00:15:20.716 --> 00:15:22.157
that like three hundred million number was

00:15:22.197 --> 00:15:23.777
just an estimate I came up with by

00:15:23.817 --> 00:15:25.498
doing the math of like one point five

00:15:25.538 --> 00:15:26.638
billion devices or whatever.

00:15:26.697 --> 00:15:27.818
So it may not be exact.

00:15:27.859 --> 00:15:29.038
That may be on the high side.

00:15:30.139 --> 00:15:31.259
But yeah,

00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:33.061
it's thank you for mentioning lockdown

00:15:33.081 --> 00:15:34.120
mode because I definitely forgot to

00:15:34.160 --> 00:15:35.201
mention that.

00:15:35.221 --> 00:15:36.981
They did say that lockdown mode would have

00:15:37.081 --> 00:15:38.062
defended against this.

00:15:39.163 --> 00:15:40.702
So Apple did.

00:15:40.822 --> 00:15:41.243
Like you said,

00:15:41.283 --> 00:15:43.024
they did push out an update to devices

00:15:43.043 --> 00:15:45.245
that are not able to update to iOS

00:15:45.284 --> 00:15:45.745
twenty six.

00:15:46.885 --> 00:15:48.047
So if you're sitting here and you're just

00:15:48.067 --> 00:15:49.229
like, I can't update, dude,

00:15:49.489 --> 00:15:50.770
we'll make sure you get that update at

00:15:50.811 --> 00:15:52.352
least because that would be helpful.

00:15:52.894 --> 00:15:54.937
But yeah, also lockdown mode is helpful.

00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:57.321
Yeah, like you said,

00:15:57.640 --> 00:15:59.042
that's an important piece of context is

00:15:59.542 --> 00:16:01.182
whoever got a hold of this,

00:16:01.202 --> 00:16:02.863
which I think was Russia, like you said,

00:16:03.962 --> 00:16:05.203
they kind of left it out in the

00:16:05.283 --> 00:16:05.563
open.

00:16:05.624 --> 00:16:07.124
So originally they were using it

00:16:07.163 --> 00:16:09.044
specifically on like Ukrainian news sites,

00:16:09.105 --> 00:16:10.085
Ukrainian government sites,

00:16:10.105 --> 00:16:11.105
like they were clearly targeting

00:16:11.186 --> 00:16:11.745
Ukrainians.

00:16:12.326 --> 00:16:13.966
But now that they just left it out

00:16:14.006 --> 00:16:16.047
there unsecured and anybody can go grab it

00:16:16.567 --> 00:16:18.388
and there's like comments in the code

00:16:18.488 --> 00:16:20.028
about what each module does and how to

00:16:20.149 --> 00:16:20.469
use it.

00:16:20.548 --> 00:16:23.330
So it's kind of like,

00:16:24.169 --> 00:16:25.450
They made it so easy now,

00:16:25.590 --> 00:16:27.130
and now it's out there in the wild,

00:16:27.250 --> 00:16:28.571
and who knows where it'll pop up.

00:16:28.770 --> 00:16:34.432
So yeah, that's unfortunate for sure.

00:16:34.491 --> 00:16:35.131
Definitely.

00:16:35.613 --> 00:16:36.533
I guess we can move on to the

00:16:36.592 --> 00:16:37.692
next story here,

00:16:38.033 --> 00:16:38.913
if you want to take that.

00:16:41.033 --> 00:16:41.553
Sure.

00:16:41.974 --> 00:16:45.095
So this next story is about the U.S.

00:16:45.134 --> 00:16:46.875
government buying location data.

00:16:47.654 --> 00:16:51.155
And I know this probably...

00:16:53.183 --> 00:16:54.825
This is and isn't a surprise.

00:16:54.965 --> 00:16:56.426
So back in twenty twenty three,

00:16:57.326 --> 00:16:59.506
the government put a pause on buying

00:16:59.547 --> 00:17:00.346
location data.

00:17:01.067 --> 00:17:03.828
I cannot remember if that was something

00:17:03.948 --> 00:17:05.548
that they were ordered to do by the

00:17:05.568 --> 00:17:07.710
White House or if they just stopped doing

00:17:07.750 --> 00:17:08.851
it for one reason or another.

00:17:08.911 --> 00:17:09.810
But they stopped doing it.

00:17:10.412 --> 00:17:12.952
And now I think confirm is a strong

00:17:12.992 --> 00:17:13.452
word here.

00:17:13.512 --> 00:17:14.833
Here in the title, I believe, is that,

00:17:14.873 --> 00:17:18.375
yeah, director confirms he didn't confirm.

00:17:18.694 --> 00:17:20.096
So the question was.

00:17:21.016 --> 00:17:23.117
Basically, Ron Wyden,

00:17:24.138 --> 00:17:27.461
who I think not a controversial take.

00:17:27.501 --> 00:17:28.742
We like him for privacy at least.

00:17:28.762 --> 00:17:29.182
I'll be honest.

00:17:29.222 --> 00:17:30.503
I don't know any of his other policies,

00:17:30.944 --> 00:17:32.865
but he does really good work for privacy,

00:17:33.006 --> 00:17:34.627
and he's really on the ball for that.

00:17:35.468 --> 00:17:37.911
He asked the FBI – or he asked

00:17:37.931 --> 00:17:39.892
Kash Patel if the FBI would commit to

00:17:39.951 --> 00:17:41.374
not buying Americans' location data,

00:17:41.794 --> 00:17:43.194
and Kash Patel said that the agency,

00:17:43.234 --> 00:17:43.494
quote,

00:17:43.935 --> 00:17:45.836
uses all tools available to do our

00:17:45.876 --> 00:17:46.137
mission.

00:17:47.188 --> 00:17:49.749
So he didn't directly say it,

00:17:49.909 --> 00:17:51.150
but he I mean, you know,

00:17:51.190 --> 00:17:53.351
come on when he refuses to admit it

00:17:53.371 --> 00:17:53.750
for sure.

00:17:54.411 --> 00:17:56.511
So this.

00:17:58.232 --> 00:18:01.534
This is a. Outside of the privacy space,

00:18:01.554 --> 00:18:02.913
because I think in the privacy space,

00:18:02.974 --> 00:18:04.714
we all universally recognize that this is

00:18:04.755 --> 00:18:06.316
an awful thing that needs to stop.

00:18:07.296 --> 00:18:09.057
But even even in mainstream circles,

00:18:09.096 --> 00:18:11.218
this is a very controversial thing that

00:18:11.377 --> 00:18:11.778
the U.S.

00:18:11.798 --> 00:18:13.778
government does law enforcement because.

00:18:14.203 --> 00:18:16.705
Law enforcement is supposed to get a

00:18:16.806 --> 00:18:18.626
warrant whenever they want to search your

00:18:18.727 --> 00:18:19.127
data.

00:18:19.887 --> 00:18:26.132
And by going to these third-party vendors,

00:18:27.232 --> 00:18:28.394
they don't have to get a warrant.

00:18:28.413 --> 00:18:30.655
But the article notes that, interestingly,

00:18:31.496 --> 00:18:33.357
this is –

00:18:34.598 --> 00:18:36.099
Well, okay, maybe this isn't a one-to-one,

00:18:36.140 --> 00:18:37.741
but the FBI claims it does not need

00:18:37.761 --> 00:18:39.021
a warrant to use this information for

00:18:39.061 --> 00:18:39.982
federal investigations,

00:18:40.022 --> 00:18:41.523
though the theory has not yet been tested

00:18:41.564 --> 00:18:41.963
in court.

00:18:42.525 --> 00:18:44.266
So the way that I read that is

00:18:44.306 --> 00:18:46.968
like maybe this whole –

00:18:46.499 --> 00:18:48.259
going to third party brokers,

00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:50.099
if that went to court and a judge

00:18:50.140 --> 00:18:51.259
said, no, you can't do that,

00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:52.740
then maybe that would become illegal,

00:18:52.900 --> 00:18:54.940
but it has not yet been to court.

00:18:55.740 --> 00:18:56.901
Or maybe it is just totally legal.

00:18:57.461 --> 00:18:57.740
I know,

00:18:57.901 --> 00:19:00.240
I believe Wyden has in the past tried

00:19:00.280 --> 00:19:01.301
to introduce a bill.

00:19:01.362 --> 00:19:02.642
It was called like the fourth amendment is

00:19:02.682 --> 00:19:04.021
not for sale act or something,

00:19:04.501 --> 00:19:05.501
which would have outlawed this

00:19:05.541 --> 00:19:06.142
specifically,

00:19:06.701 --> 00:19:08.542
but of course it did not pass.

00:19:08.563 --> 00:19:11.903
And now I know the,

00:19:12.403 --> 00:19:13.763
I think section seven Oh two,

00:19:13.804 --> 00:19:15.284
if I remember correctly, which is,

00:19:16.376 --> 00:19:18.702
what allows the NSA to like bulk collect

00:19:18.742 --> 00:19:19.826
data, um,

00:19:19.865 --> 00:19:22.131
that I believe is up for renewal and,

00:19:22.151 --> 00:19:22.211
um,

00:19:23.273 --> 00:19:24.414
hopefully will not get renewed.

00:19:24.454 --> 00:19:25.435
But then it says here at the end

00:19:25.455 --> 00:19:26.957
that Wyden and several other lawmakers

00:19:26.977 --> 00:19:28.857
have introduced a bipartisan act called

00:19:28.877 --> 00:19:30.219
the Government Surveillance Reform Act,

00:19:30.259 --> 00:19:31.859
which among other things would require a

00:19:31.901 --> 00:19:33.362
court authorized warrant before federal

00:19:33.442 --> 00:19:34.923
agencies can buy Americans information

00:19:34.942 --> 00:19:35.643
from data brokers,

00:19:36.124 --> 00:19:38.645
which personal opinion does not seem

00:19:38.705 --> 00:19:39.286
unreasonable.

00:19:39.445 --> 00:19:41.428
Like I don't think anybody's telling them

00:19:41.508 --> 00:19:42.367
not to do their job.

00:19:42.407 --> 00:19:43.348
I think we're just telling you to go

00:19:43.368 --> 00:19:44.609
through the proper channels where there's

00:19:44.730 --> 00:19:46.991
oversight and there's accountability.

00:19:47.711 --> 00:19:49.233
But I don't know.

00:19:49.334 --> 00:19:50.634
They seem to disagree for some reason.

00:19:51.893 --> 00:19:53.335
The last thing I want to mention here

00:19:53.335 --> 00:19:55.076
– this has become a little bit of

00:19:55.096 --> 00:19:56.137
a personal crusade of mine.

00:19:56.638 --> 00:19:58.480
It says here for audio listeners,

00:19:59.021 --> 00:20:00.242
it says that U.S.

00:20:00.262 --> 00:20:02.645
Customs and Border Patrol control – Border

00:20:02.665 --> 00:20:03.386
Protection, excuse me.

00:20:03.507 --> 00:20:03.666
U.S.

00:20:03.686 --> 00:20:05.710
Customs and Border Protection purchased a

00:20:05.750 --> 00:20:07.070
bunch of data sourced from real-time

00:20:07.090 --> 00:20:08.913
bidding or RTB services according to a

00:20:08.973 --> 00:20:10.295
document obtained by Foro Foro Media.

00:20:10.875 --> 00:20:11.797
So –

00:20:11.916 --> 00:20:13.317
For those who do not know about this,

00:20:13.718 --> 00:20:14.999
there's a lot of really good resources out

00:20:15.019 --> 00:20:15.159
there.

00:20:15.259 --> 00:20:16.179
EFF has an article.

00:20:16.538 --> 00:20:18.559
I mentioned before that Byron Tao has a

00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:20.181
book called Means of Control that dives in

00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:20.861
deep into this.

00:20:21.422 --> 00:20:23.423
But the way that ads on the internet

00:20:23.442 --> 00:20:24.823
work is you go to a website that

00:20:24.843 --> 00:20:25.344
has ads.

00:20:25.824 --> 00:20:27.124
Let's say Reuters because as much as I

00:20:27.163 --> 00:20:27.704
like Reuters,

00:20:27.744 --> 00:20:29.385
their website is littered with ads.

00:20:30.246 --> 00:20:31.145
Most news websites are.

00:20:31.826 --> 00:20:34.407
So you go to a news website and

00:20:34.407 --> 00:20:35.628
–

00:20:35.503 --> 00:20:37.204
When there's that ad space,

00:20:37.766 --> 00:20:39.126
they basically open it up for bidding,

00:20:39.267 --> 00:20:40.508
just like any given auction.

00:20:40.528 --> 00:20:41.769
They're like, who wants this ad space?

00:20:41.788 --> 00:20:42.990
Who's willing to pay the most for it?

00:20:43.430 --> 00:20:44.951
And in order for those advertisers to

00:20:44.990 --> 00:20:46.491
decide how much they want to pay,

00:20:47.173 --> 00:20:49.253
they get your data.

00:20:49.453 --> 00:20:51.075
They get a copy of your data so

00:20:51.095 --> 00:20:52.036
that they can decide, oh,

00:20:52.076 --> 00:20:53.517
this person is worth this much to me.

00:20:53.876 --> 00:20:55.999
And then they submit their bid and whoever

00:20:56.038 --> 00:20:57.200
wins, you see that ad.

00:20:58.413 --> 00:21:01.253
The thing is they don't have to bid

00:21:01.294 --> 00:21:02.173
to get your data,

00:21:03.134 --> 00:21:05.234
which in theory makes sense, right?

00:21:05.255 --> 00:21:06.336
Because if they get your data and they're

00:21:06.355 --> 00:21:07.516
like, oh, nevermind, I don't want to bid,

00:21:07.976 --> 00:21:09.217
but they still have that copy of your

00:21:09.257 --> 00:21:09.537
data.

00:21:09.676 --> 00:21:11.136
And so this is a proven thing.

00:21:11.636 --> 00:21:13.478
There are companies out there who will

00:21:13.877 --> 00:21:16.538
enter the advertising ecosystem just to

00:21:16.558 --> 00:21:18.380
get a copy of your data and then

00:21:18.420 --> 00:21:19.640
turn around and sell it to people like

00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:20.180
the FBI.

00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:23.760
So where I'm going with this is if

00:21:23.800 --> 00:21:25.061
you are not using an ad blocker,

00:21:26.001 --> 00:21:27.124
That is, in my opinion,

00:21:27.244 --> 00:21:29.429
one of the currently most overlooked ways

00:21:29.449 --> 00:21:30.371
to protect your privacy.

00:21:30.510 --> 00:21:32.114
And obviously there's a million other

00:21:32.134 --> 00:21:32.575
ways, right?

00:21:32.595 --> 00:21:33.957
You need to switch to a secure messenger.

00:21:34.337 --> 00:21:35.820
You need to switch to a...

00:21:37.586 --> 00:21:38.407
private email.

00:21:39.147 --> 00:21:39.588
Ideally,

00:21:39.608 --> 00:21:42.230
we should get off Windows and switch to

00:21:42.269 --> 00:21:42.871
Linux and stuff.

00:21:43.211 --> 00:21:44.010
And I know I have a Mac in

00:21:44.030 --> 00:21:44.332
front of me.

00:21:44.432 --> 00:21:46.192
It's specifically for streaming and

00:21:46.212 --> 00:21:46.992
editing, for the record.

00:21:47.032 --> 00:21:48.294
This is not my daily computer.

00:21:48.894 --> 00:21:51.977
But we should make all those steps.

00:21:52.017 --> 00:21:52.356
But to me,

00:21:53.096 --> 00:21:55.798
the lowest hanging fruit to start with is

00:21:55.838 --> 00:21:57.980
installing an ad blocker because that

00:21:58.020 --> 00:21:59.942
real-time bidding is happening everywhere,

00:22:00.102 --> 00:22:01.442
all the time, constantly.

00:22:02.002 --> 00:22:02.483
And like I said,

00:22:02.523 --> 00:22:03.544
they don't even need to bid.

00:22:03.644 --> 00:22:04.724
They can just sit there and collect your

00:22:04.744 --> 00:22:05.905
data and then resell it to

00:22:07.636 --> 00:22:08.436
whoever they want.

00:22:08.998 --> 00:22:11.618
Um, so yeah, that is that story.

00:22:11.659 --> 00:22:13.579
That is my takeaway from that story.

00:22:13.900 --> 00:22:15.461
Um, Jordan, did you have any,

00:22:17.201 --> 00:22:18.782
any additional thoughts on that one?

00:22:18.942 --> 00:22:19.303
I mean,

00:22:19.443 --> 00:22:22.265
I guess like this is kind of surprising,

00:22:22.345 --> 00:22:24.665
but I guess not like with,

00:22:24.746 --> 00:22:26.567
with the prevalence of data brokers and

00:22:26.606 --> 00:22:28.788
stuff like that, it's not that surprising.

00:22:28.808 --> 00:22:31.910
Like they said in the, Oh,

00:22:31.930 --> 00:22:33.411
they said in the article, um,

00:22:33.951 --> 00:22:36.512
there was like, you know,

00:22:37.429 --> 00:22:39.250
the FBI is going to use all tools

00:22:39.289 --> 00:22:41.592
at their disposal to do their job.

00:22:42.353 --> 00:22:45.875
So, um, it's kind of, you know,

00:22:45.955 --> 00:22:48.557
it makes sense that they would do that,

00:22:48.637 --> 00:22:50.278
but I guess it needs to be like

00:22:50.679 --> 00:22:52.400
Senator Ron Wyden was saying, like,

00:22:53.421 --> 00:22:55.383
it's not really consistent with the

00:22:55.423 --> 00:22:56.182
constitution.

00:22:56.222 --> 00:22:57.443
Like it's a little bit,

00:22:57.644 --> 00:23:00.365
they kind of bypassing a lot of the

00:23:00.405 --> 00:23:01.867
protections that people had with,

00:23:02.448 --> 00:23:02.667
you know,

00:23:02.688 --> 00:23:04.569
places having to require a warrant

00:23:04.670 --> 00:23:05.170
instead.

00:23:06.030 --> 00:23:06.151
Um,

00:23:08.003 --> 00:23:08.604
It is, yeah,

00:23:08.624 --> 00:23:09.724
I don't really have too much to add

00:23:09.785 --> 00:23:10.605
here, really.

00:23:11.465 --> 00:23:14.048
This is sort of a very American story,

00:23:14.107 --> 00:23:16.128
so I can't really comment too much about

00:23:16.169 --> 00:23:20.291
it.

00:23:20.311 --> 00:23:21.071
Yeah, that's fair.

00:23:21.511 --> 00:23:24.253
Yeah, I mean,

00:23:24.513 --> 00:23:25.994
it's a pretty straightforward story,

00:23:26.134 --> 00:23:26.476
really.

00:23:26.895 --> 00:23:27.996
I don't have too much to add other

00:23:28.017 --> 00:23:28.957
than what I already said.

00:23:31.616 --> 00:23:32.916
But just before we continue,

00:23:32.998 --> 00:23:34.458
I just did see a couple of comments

00:23:34.478 --> 00:23:38.618
we should probably quickly mention here.

00:23:39.159 --> 00:23:41.319
So there was someone who said,

00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:43.161
how do you find out what security updates

00:23:43.181 --> 00:23:45.681
have been loaded if you can't update to

00:23:45.820 --> 00:23:46.882
iOS twenty six?

00:23:47.461 --> 00:23:49.502
So I wouldn't update to iOS twenty six.

00:23:49.563 --> 00:23:50.702
If you're on iOS eighteen,

00:23:50.903 --> 00:23:52.143
just make sure you're on the latest

00:23:52.182 --> 00:23:53.304
version of iOS eighteen.

00:23:54.403 --> 00:23:54.744
Um,

00:23:54.865 --> 00:23:56.726
I would also check the background security

00:23:56.766 --> 00:23:58.346
improvements tab as well.

00:23:59.127 --> 00:24:00.769
Um, that will also have like,

00:24:00.789 --> 00:24:01.250
there was a,

00:24:01.289 --> 00:24:02.451
there was a background security

00:24:02.490 --> 00:24:03.592
improvement that was released.

00:24:03.612 --> 00:24:04.792
I don't know if that's for iOS,

00:24:05.814 --> 00:24:06.594
you have to look at that.

00:24:06.875 --> 00:24:07.115
Um,

00:24:07.134 --> 00:24:08.115
but I would make sure you're on the

00:24:08.155 --> 00:24:09.135
latest version of iOS.

00:24:09.676 --> 00:24:10.938
You don't have to update to iOS.

00:24:10.978 --> 00:24:11.218
Um,

00:24:14.161 --> 00:24:16.623
I think the latest versions fix a lot

00:24:16.643 --> 00:24:17.462
of these issues.

00:24:17.824 --> 00:24:18.023
So.

00:24:19.969 --> 00:24:20.189
Yeah,

00:24:20.368 --> 00:24:23.250
I wouldn't be too worried as long as

00:24:23.271 --> 00:24:24.412
you're on the latest version.

00:24:25.113 --> 00:24:25.813
Someone also said,

00:24:25.833 --> 00:24:27.795
what is the timeline for the disclosure of

00:24:27.835 --> 00:24:28.634
these sorts of things?

00:24:28.736 --> 00:24:32.898
Is the idea it's better to announce it

00:24:32.919 --> 00:24:34.380
to help make people update?

00:24:34.539 --> 00:24:36.441
I think they've already released.

00:24:36.821 --> 00:24:38.962
Usually, they notify the company,

00:24:39.002 --> 00:24:39.864
in this case, Apple.

00:24:41.045 --> 00:24:42.286
Apple releases a fix,

00:24:42.546 --> 00:24:43.626
the fix gets released,

00:24:43.767 --> 00:24:45.428
and then they disclose it to the public.

00:24:45.708 --> 00:24:47.328
And then that's basically where we're at

00:24:47.368 --> 00:24:47.750
right now.

00:24:47.829 --> 00:24:48.549
You need to update.

00:24:49.590 --> 00:24:50.451
to make sure you're not,

00:24:52.394 --> 00:24:54.076
there's no background improvements option

00:24:54.116 --> 00:24:54.617
to check.

00:24:56.130 --> 00:24:58.092
Uh, maybe that's an iOS twenty-six thing.

00:24:58.432 --> 00:24:59.251
I don't think so though.

00:24:59.633 --> 00:25:00.532
Um, I believe it's in...

00:25:01.253 --> 00:25:02.875
I don't have an iOS eighteen device to

00:25:02.914 --> 00:25:04.135
check exactly where it is.

00:25:04.476 --> 00:25:07.178
Um, but there is,

00:25:07.317 --> 00:25:08.499
there should be a setting there.

00:25:08.798 --> 00:25:10.359
Um, but yeah, we're in the,

00:25:10.401 --> 00:25:12.321
we're in the point right now where we

00:25:12.342 --> 00:25:13.242
need to be updating.

00:25:13.542 --> 00:25:15.624
That's why iVerify came out with like this

00:25:15.644 --> 00:25:17.905
whole, um, press release, I guess,

00:25:17.986 --> 00:25:19.846
about the Dark Sword attacks and...

00:25:20.728 --> 00:25:21.587
Karuna stuff.

00:25:21.949 --> 00:25:25.490
Um, so yeah, it's kind of, uh,

00:25:25.650 --> 00:25:28.451
unfortunate, but I think people should be,

00:25:29.832 --> 00:25:30.951
that's why we're trying to share it as

00:25:30.991 --> 00:25:32.093
like the main story here,

00:25:32.133 --> 00:25:33.752
because if you're running an older version

00:25:33.772 --> 00:25:34.253
of iOS,

00:25:34.374 --> 00:25:35.513
I kind of do wonder as well,

00:25:36.074 --> 00:25:38.494
if this would affect older devices,

00:25:38.535 --> 00:25:39.036
for instance,

00:25:39.056 --> 00:25:41.557
like I was and I was because I

00:25:41.576 --> 00:25:43.656
know there's some devices that are limited

00:25:43.696 --> 00:25:53.039
to like iOS or .

00:25:45.038 --> 00:25:48.499
So it'd be interesting to see if they're

00:25:48.558 --> 00:25:49.420
also affected,

00:25:49.539 --> 00:25:49.759
but

00:25:51.848 --> 00:25:51.969
Yeah,

00:25:52.229 --> 00:25:54.030
I think this is one of those things

00:25:54.050 --> 00:25:56.593
where you need to be using, I think,

00:25:56.972 --> 00:25:58.394
I think lockdown mode doesn't really

00:25:58.433 --> 00:26:00.496
introduce that many problems now.

00:26:00.655 --> 00:26:02.497
Like a lot of websites have already fixed

00:26:02.698 --> 00:26:02.958
out.

00:26:03.657 --> 00:26:05.159
Um, oh, it's only iOS,

00:26:05.319 --> 00:26:06.961
that has background improvements.

00:26:07.121 --> 00:26:07.981
Okay.

00:26:08.001 --> 00:26:09.663
I thought it was a,

00:26:09.742 --> 00:26:10.983
I think they called it something else.

00:26:11.003 --> 00:26:13.046
They call it like rapid security responses

00:26:13.086 --> 00:26:13.526
or something.

00:26:18.743 --> 00:26:20.484
um so maybe i don't know that is

00:26:20.846 --> 00:26:23.647
a good point i guess um looks like

00:26:23.748 --> 00:26:27.911
nate is back here hello hopefully i'm back

00:26:28.171 --> 00:26:30.813
um this is the first really warm day

00:26:30.853 --> 00:26:31.953
we've had of the year and i think

00:26:31.973 --> 00:26:34.635
my camera was overheating so um if it

00:26:34.675 --> 00:26:36.396
goes out again i apologize y'all but i

00:26:36.436 --> 00:26:38.259
think i found a solution for now that

00:26:38.298 --> 00:26:40.661
can get us through the episode awesome

00:26:40.681 --> 00:26:42.142
then uh why don't you take us into

00:26:42.182 --> 00:26:43.603
the next section of the show here

00:26:44.798 --> 00:26:47.078
yeah so um in a little bit we're

00:26:47.098 --> 00:26:49.220
going to talk about google's updates to

00:26:49.319 --> 00:26:51.561
their third-party app installation

00:26:51.602 --> 00:26:53.982
procedures but first we're going to give

00:26:54.163 --> 00:26:55.804
some updates about what we've been working

00:26:55.864 --> 00:26:58.365
on at privacy guides this week so we'll

00:26:58.384 --> 00:27:00.105
start by talking about the videos our

00:27:00.145 --> 00:27:02.047
private messaging video is now available

00:27:02.146 --> 00:27:04.708
to the public so if you are not

00:27:04.728 --> 00:27:05.689
a paying member you can

00:27:06.218 --> 00:27:07.778
access that now paying members do get

00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:10.521
early access to these things but uh that

00:27:10.541 --> 00:27:12.463
is up our next video will be about

00:27:12.584 --> 00:27:14.846
encrypted email um which that is fully

00:27:14.885 --> 00:27:16.928
recorded and the first round of editing is

00:27:16.968 --> 00:27:18.848
done so that is off to jordan to

00:27:18.909 --> 00:27:21.471
work their magic and they uh they do

00:27:21.592 --> 00:27:23.373
all the graphics the zoom and they

00:27:23.393 --> 00:27:25.055
basically just make it look a thousand

00:27:25.075 --> 00:27:26.756
times more awesome which we are super

00:27:26.796 --> 00:27:27.336
grateful for

00:27:28.376 --> 00:27:31.199
And we, a lot of you guys,

00:27:31.219 --> 00:27:32.180
if you tuned in last week,

00:27:32.220 --> 00:27:34.060
you saw that Jonah and I were at

00:27:34.221 --> 00:27:35.682
an event for South by Southwest,

00:27:35.961 --> 00:27:37.143
an unofficial event.

00:27:37.883 --> 00:27:40.384
And we had the awesome opportunity to

00:27:40.444 --> 00:27:41.625
record some of those talks.

00:27:42.246 --> 00:27:45.268
And those should be out hopefully in the

00:27:45.288 --> 00:27:46.108
next coming days.

00:27:46.209 --> 00:27:47.150
They should be trickling out.

00:27:47.569 --> 00:27:48.549
There's only a few of them,

00:27:48.651 --> 00:27:50.811
but they were really insightful and really

00:27:50.852 --> 00:27:51.071
good.

00:27:51.152 --> 00:27:52.212
And we wanted to share those with you

00:27:52.232 --> 00:27:52.512
guys.

00:27:52.732 --> 00:27:55.375
So expect those in the near future.

00:27:58.981 --> 00:27:59.663
Awesome, yeah.

00:28:00.202 --> 00:28:02.685
I think there's also, yeah,

00:28:02.786 --> 00:28:05.429
Nate's kind of been piling on the videos

00:28:05.449 --> 00:28:06.210
for me to work on.

00:28:06.250 --> 00:28:07.911
So I've got quite a big backlog now,

00:28:07.931 --> 00:28:08.612
which is great.

00:28:09.073 --> 00:28:11.275
So definitely be on the lookout.

00:28:11.315 --> 00:28:12.715
I think we're trying to have something

00:28:12.756 --> 00:28:13.576
come out next week

00:28:14.597 --> 00:28:15.398
For our members,

00:28:15.818 --> 00:28:17.420
hopefully that encrypted email video.

00:28:17.619 --> 00:28:20.721
That's the plan at least So definitely

00:28:20.740 --> 00:28:21.602
look out for that.

00:28:21.961 --> 00:28:23.682
And there was also a couple of extra

00:28:23.702 --> 00:28:25.963
things we should have mentioned We had

00:28:26.384 --> 00:28:28.724
privacy guides news articles coming out So

00:28:28.785 --> 00:28:31.506
Freya is working on that every week and

00:28:31.546 --> 00:28:33.606
we have a couple of new articles that

00:28:33.667 --> 00:28:36.489
came out this week one was about Instagram

00:28:36.548 --> 00:28:39.871
ending end-to-end encryption on their DMS,

00:28:39.911 --> 00:28:40.711
which is kind of a

00:28:41.820 --> 00:28:44.583
very surprising i guess but also like

00:28:44.762 --> 00:28:48.404
facebook being facebook i guess um they

00:28:48.424 --> 00:28:50.746
just end up making their product worse uh

00:28:50.766 --> 00:28:53.627
i don't know instagram has notified its

00:28:53.708 --> 00:28:55.229
users that it will no longer support

00:28:55.328 --> 00:28:57.650
end-to-end encryption after may eighth so

00:28:57.670 --> 00:28:59.131
if you use instagram i feel like not

00:28:59.151 --> 00:29:00.571
many people in our community are using

00:29:00.632 --> 00:29:03.794
instagram but it's good to know uh good

00:29:03.814 --> 00:29:05.355
to put the info out there but

00:29:05.935 --> 00:29:08.317
And there was also another one about,

00:29:08.838 --> 00:29:10.320
we were debating on talking about this

00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:10.601
one,

00:29:10.681 --> 00:29:13.304
but Pokemon Go players data was used to

00:29:13.344 --> 00:29:16.107
train visual positioning AI.

00:29:17.589 --> 00:29:20.732
So there was a parent or spin-off company

00:29:20.813 --> 00:29:23.675
from Niantic which basically runs Pokemon

00:29:23.715 --> 00:29:27.058
Go and they used images from Pokemon Go

00:29:27.078 --> 00:29:29.902
to train its visual positioning system.

00:29:30.701 --> 00:29:32.344
So that is kind of scary too.

00:29:32.963 --> 00:29:34.346
Freya did a great write-up on that so

00:29:34.365 --> 00:29:35.707
definitely check that out as well.

00:29:37.568 --> 00:29:38.910
And there was also another thing,

00:29:39.309 --> 00:29:41.372
it's kind of another thing where we're

00:29:41.392 --> 00:29:42.472
keeping on the lookout,

00:29:42.512 --> 00:29:45.595
which is like the homomorphic encryption.

00:29:46.394 --> 00:29:48.517
Intel made an advance in that area.

00:29:50.278 --> 00:29:51.659
I think it's a lot to do with

00:29:51.699 --> 00:29:53.740
these, you know,

00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:56.903
the ability to do server-side processing

00:29:57.242 --> 00:29:58.304
end-to-end encrypted.

00:29:58.344 --> 00:30:00.286
So the server processes the data,

00:30:00.365 --> 00:30:01.006
but it doesn't,

00:30:01.445 --> 00:30:03.307
isn't available for the server to access,

00:30:03.748 --> 00:30:04.828
which is kind of a problem we have

00:30:04.868 --> 00:30:06.130
with like AI at the moment.

00:30:07.298 --> 00:30:09.598
because it's kind of hard to run that

00:30:09.699 --> 00:30:11.500
on your device as well.

00:30:11.579 --> 00:30:12.019
Like, you know,

00:30:12.039 --> 00:30:12.861
you need a lot of RAM,

00:30:12.881 --> 00:30:14.721
you need a lot of CPU processing power.

00:30:14.842 --> 00:30:16.522
Mobile devices can't really do that.

00:30:17.923 --> 00:30:19.443
So yeah,

00:30:19.604 --> 00:30:21.325
this is basically a trusted execution

00:30:21.365 --> 00:30:22.045
environment,

00:30:22.145 --> 00:30:27.147
which segregates the CPU using encryption.

00:30:27.327 --> 00:30:28.308
Definitely read into it.

00:30:28.388 --> 00:30:30.349
Freya did a great write up of that

00:30:30.390 --> 00:30:30.750
as well,

00:30:30.809 --> 00:30:32.230
explaining the whole system there.

00:30:32.250 --> 00:30:33.892
So if you're interested in that,

00:30:33.951 --> 00:30:34.672
check that out too.

00:30:36.339 --> 00:30:37.461
But yeah,

00:30:37.781 --> 00:30:38.521
if you want to stay up to date

00:30:38.561 --> 00:30:39.143
with that stuff,

00:30:39.182 --> 00:30:44.307
you can go to privacyguides.org forward

00:30:44.347 --> 00:30:46.611
slash news if you want to check out

00:30:46.651 --> 00:30:47.010
that.

00:30:47.672 --> 00:30:49.574
Nate's also doing every week,

00:30:49.614 --> 00:30:51.415
he does a Data Breach Roundup,

00:30:51.435 --> 00:30:51.816
which is

00:30:52.849 --> 00:30:54.711
really useful if you want to make sure

00:30:54.731 --> 00:30:56.333
you stay on top of things and you

00:30:56.353 --> 00:30:58.474
aren't missing if you're in a breach.

00:30:58.555 --> 00:31:01.137
A lot of tools that detect if your

00:31:01.198 --> 00:31:03.500
credentials are in a data breach are

00:31:04.560 --> 00:31:06.542
usually pretty slow to determine that

00:31:06.583 --> 00:31:08.285
because they have to add the data set

00:31:08.964 --> 00:31:09.526
to scan it.

00:31:10.006 --> 00:31:12.548
So if you're wanting to keep on top

00:31:12.588 --> 00:31:13.470
of data breach stuff,

00:31:13.650 --> 00:31:14.590
definitely check that out.

00:31:15.070 --> 00:31:16.152
Nate does a great job on that.

00:31:16.491 --> 00:31:17.653
It's very comprehensive.

00:31:18.574 --> 00:31:20.275
Let's see how many here.

00:31:20.295 --> 00:31:23.855
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven,

00:31:24.496 --> 00:31:24.655
eight.

00:31:24.675 --> 00:31:24.736
Yes.

00:31:24.756 --> 00:31:27.195
So eight ones this week.

00:31:27.336 --> 00:31:29.237
I basically write about any data breaches

00:31:29.277 --> 00:31:32.337
that come through my RSS feed that affect

00:31:32.498 --> 00:31:33.018
individuals.

00:31:33.077 --> 00:31:34.538
If it's like company had their source code

00:31:34.557 --> 00:31:36.179
stolen, I don't usually cover that stuff.

00:31:36.239 --> 00:31:38.038
But yeah, so it varies week to week.

00:31:38.058 --> 00:31:39.099
Sometimes there's like three,

00:31:39.140 --> 00:31:40.359
sometimes there's like twelve.

00:31:42.954 --> 00:31:44.736
So kind of a medium, a midweek,

00:31:45.416 --> 00:31:45.777
which is,

00:31:46.616 --> 00:31:48.218
I guess less data breaches is better.

00:31:48.419 --> 00:31:51.681
Let's normalize less data breaches.

00:31:52.280 --> 00:31:52.601
But yeah,

00:31:52.641 --> 00:31:53.922
that's kind of what we've been working on

00:31:53.961 --> 00:31:54.362
this week.

00:31:55.442 --> 00:31:57.443
I guess we can head into the next

00:31:57.544 --> 00:31:58.244
article here.

00:31:58.444 --> 00:32:00.967
Nick kind of mentioned it before.

00:32:02.910 --> 00:32:06.153
basically Google is making changes to,

00:32:06.993 --> 00:32:07.894
if you haven't heard already,

00:32:07.954 --> 00:32:10.818
there was this whole project with keep

00:32:10.939 --> 00:32:11.679
Android open.

00:32:12.180 --> 00:32:13.622
And basically Google was trying to

00:32:15.730 --> 00:32:19.053
combat malware by basically restricting

00:32:19.212 --> 00:32:22.455
application installation on your device

00:32:22.516 --> 00:32:24.636
but it was usually apps outside the google

00:32:24.676 --> 00:32:26.278
play store so it would stop you from

00:32:26.898 --> 00:32:28.660
installing that and there's been a huge

00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:30.520
amount of backlash to this as well like

00:32:30.942 --> 00:32:32.863
we've uh we signed the open letter to

00:32:32.903 --> 00:32:35.805
google um with keep android open and if

00:32:35.825 --> 00:32:38.067
you notice that on our socials um you

00:32:38.086 --> 00:32:39.708
can share that with your friends and

00:32:39.748 --> 00:32:41.929
family get people talking about this

00:32:41.989 --> 00:32:44.010
because i think it's important that

00:32:45.810 --> 00:32:46.211
you know,

00:32:46.250 --> 00:32:48.751
people are pushing against this because

00:32:49.512 --> 00:32:52.413
it's basically Google using their power as

00:32:52.433 --> 00:32:53.213
a monopoly here.

00:32:53.253 --> 00:32:55.934
Like they do have control over the Google

00:32:56.236 --> 00:32:57.276
Android ecosystem.

00:32:57.536 --> 00:32:58.997
It allows them to make these sort of

00:32:59.037 --> 00:33:01.877
wide reaching changes with really no one

00:33:01.938 --> 00:33:02.577
to stop them.

00:33:03.838 --> 00:33:04.618
Well, I guess we are,

00:33:04.838 --> 00:33:05.779
we are trying to stop them,

00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:06.140
but

00:33:07.824 --> 00:33:08.384
Clearly,

00:33:08.403 --> 00:33:11.204
we do have some power because this week

00:33:11.285 --> 00:33:13.144
there was a change.

00:33:13.204 --> 00:33:14.806
Actually, it was, I believe,

00:33:14.846 --> 00:33:16.125
today or yesterday.

00:33:17.445 --> 00:33:18.346
There was a change.

00:33:18.366 --> 00:33:20.287
Google detailed a new twenty four hour

00:33:20.346 --> 00:33:22.688
process to we're not going to mention

00:33:22.748 --> 00:33:23.327
sideload here.

00:33:23.347 --> 00:33:24.988
We're going to we're going to say install

00:33:25.307 --> 00:33:26.648
unverified Android apps.

00:33:28.919 --> 00:33:29.740
because that's what it is.

00:33:29.779 --> 00:33:31.320
You're not sideloading, you're installing.

00:33:32.321 --> 00:33:34.624
So Google is planning big changes for

00:33:34.723 --> 00:33:37.105
Android in twenty twenty six aimed at

00:33:37.165 --> 00:33:39.587
combating malware across the entire device

00:33:39.708 --> 00:33:40.307
ecosystem.

00:33:40.648 --> 00:33:41.809
Starting in September,

00:33:41.930 --> 00:33:44.531
Google will begin restricting application

00:33:44.912 --> 00:33:46.953
installation with its developer

00:33:47.253 --> 00:33:48.555
verification program.

00:33:48.954 --> 00:33:50.375
But not everyone is on board.

00:33:50.777 --> 00:33:53.659
Android ecosystem president Samir Samat

00:33:53.838 --> 00:33:55.580
tells us that the company has been

00:33:55.681 --> 00:33:56.642
listening to feedback.

00:33:57.321 --> 00:34:00.564
And the result is the newly unveiled

00:34:00.683 --> 00:34:01.644
advanced flow,

00:34:02.025 --> 00:34:05.326
which will allow power users to skip app

00:34:05.665 --> 00:34:06.406
verification.

00:34:07.146 --> 00:34:08.949
So I think one thing to mention,

00:34:09.009 --> 00:34:10.309
like right off the bat here,

00:34:10.329 --> 00:34:12.092
people will probably have, uh,

00:34:12.132 --> 00:34:13.472
they're probably thinking like, oh,

00:34:13.512 --> 00:34:15.954
does this affect my Graphene OS device?

00:34:16.074 --> 00:34:16.235
Oh no,

00:34:16.255 --> 00:34:17.277
I'm not going to be able to install

00:34:17.396 --> 00:34:18.378
apps without going through the

00:34:18.418 --> 00:34:19.378
sideloading, uh,

00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:21.701
installation process that warns me I'm

00:34:22.661 --> 00:34:23.501
installing something.

00:34:24.302 --> 00:34:24.523
No,

00:34:24.643 --> 00:34:27.565
this is affecting Google Android devices.

00:34:27.585 --> 00:34:30.327
Um, so just to put that preface here,

00:34:30.768 --> 00:34:30.869
um,

00:34:32.318 --> 00:34:33.418
So basically, uh,

00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:35.659
as Nate's showing on the screen,

00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:39.581
there's now this new advanced flow for

00:34:39.740 --> 00:34:42.202
power users to install apps from

00:34:42.342 --> 00:34:43.523
unverified developers.

00:34:44.043 --> 00:34:46.123
So basically Google wants developers to

00:34:46.184 --> 00:34:47.585
register centrally with them,

00:34:47.605 --> 00:34:49.806
which often requires payment

00:34:50.286 --> 00:34:51.206
identification.

00:34:51.887 --> 00:34:53.907
Not many people who create these,

00:34:54.367 --> 00:34:54.588
you know,

00:34:54.728 --> 00:34:58.068
independent free and open source apps want

00:34:58.108 --> 00:34:59.530
to verify through Google.

00:34:59.550 --> 00:35:00.911
It's the whole point, right?

00:35:01.670 --> 00:35:01.771
Um,

00:35:03.085 --> 00:35:03.246
Yeah.

00:35:03.266 --> 00:35:04.606
So there's a twenty five dollar fee.

00:35:04.947 --> 00:35:06.387
These independent developers, you know,

00:35:06.527 --> 00:35:08.108
I think a lot of independent developers

00:35:08.268 --> 00:35:11.351
aren't really up to paying the twenty five

00:35:11.371 --> 00:35:11.811
dollar fee.

00:35:11.831 --> 00:35:13.893
Like I've seen people who were kind of

00:35:13.932 --> 00:35:14.373
like, oh,

00:35:14.512 --> 00:35:17.014
I don't want to pay Apple's one hundred

00:35:17.034 --> 00:35:18.556
dollar a year thing to publish on the

00:35:18.615 --> 00:35:19.036
App Store.

00:35:19.476 --> 00:35:20.376
Same thing in this point,

00:35:20.416 --> 00:35:21.458
like twenty five dollars.

00:35:22.574 --> 00:35:25.195
for someone in India might be a

00:35:25.255 --> 00:35:27.358
significant amount of money or in Turkey

00:35:27.458 --> 00:35:27.918
or, you know,

00:35:27.958 --> 00:35:29.900
a country where the currency is worth a

00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:30.521
lot less.

00:35:31.300 --> 00:35:34.204
So I think that also puts another barrier

00:35:34.304 --> 00:35:37.206
on people where, you know,

00:35:37.226 --> 00:35:38.768
they would be able to release apps without

00:35:38.807 --> 00:35:39.688
having to worry about that.

00:35:39.728 --> 00:35:42.471
But it does seem like Google has folded

00:35:42.570 --> 00:35:43.572
a little bit here.

00:35:44.411 --> 00:35:44.952
Basically,

00:35:46.670 --> 00:35:48.753
The whole flow is that it makes sure

00:35:48.813 --> 00:35:50.695
no one is telling you to turn off,

00:35:51.836 --> 00:35:53.940
to allow you to install from unverified

00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:54.460
sources.

00:35:54.521 --> 00:35:56.503
Basically it'll say, yes,

00:35:56.543 --> 00:35:57.324
someone is guiding me.

00:35:57.405 --> 00:35:58.425
No one is instructing me.

00:35:58.505 --> 00:36:00.789
And then it starts a security delay of

00:36:00.849 --> 00:36:01.811
twenty four hours.

00:36:02.411 --> 00:36:05.032
And once that delay has been passed,

00:36:05.233 --> 00:36:09.735
then it allows you to select which option

00:36:09.755 --> 00:36:10.175
you want to do,

00:36:10.215 --> 00:36:11.534
which is turn on temporarily,

00:36:11.574 --> 00:36:13.815
which will allow installing unregistered

00:36:13.916 --> 00:36:15.757
apps for seven days or turn on

00:36:16.317 --> 00:36:16.896
indefinitely,

00:36:16.936 --> 00:36:19.378
which will allow unregistered apps to be

00:36:19.518 --> 00:36:21.259
installed indefinitely.

00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:23.559
And it does give you a confirmation tick

00:36:23.579 --> 00:36:23.860
mark.

00:36:23.900 --> 00:36:25.679
You can select install anyway.

00:36:26.240 --> 00:36:27.121
I think this is.

00:36:28.442 --> 00:36:31.623
really just uh we can kind of read

00:36:31.842 --> 00:36:33.724
uh keep android open did actually put a

00:36:33.764 --> 00:36:35.344
response to this so let's just have a

00:36:35.364 --> 00:36:37.625
look at what they said um but i

00:36:37.644 --> 00:36:39.505
think you can take that um nate if

00:36:39.525 --> 00:36:44.246
you want sure uh give me one second

00:36:44.347 --> 00:36:46.487
i'm pulling that up right now i had

00:36:46.507 --> 00:36:47.708
that tab open and then i closed it

00:36:47.728 --> 00:36:50.929
okay um so keep android open yeah they

00:36:50.969 --> 00:36:53.190
did they said this is not a solution

00:36:53.550 --> 00:36:57.391
um and they kind of highlighted some of

00:36:57.431 --> 00:36:57.590
the

00:36:58.271 --> 00:37:00.032
issues in this is the actual workflow.

00:37:00.072 --> 00:37:01.532
I think this is actually copy and pasted

00:37:01.552 --> 00:37:02.771
from that article we were just showing you

00:37:02.791 --> 00:37:03.032
guys.

00:37:03.552 --> 00:37:05.293
But they say you have to enable developer

00:37:05.333 --> 00:37:05.492
mode,

00:37:05.532 --> 00:37:07.393
which there I think this is to kind

00:37:07.434 --> 00:37:08.813
of illustrate to people why this is a

00:37:08.853 --> 00:37:09.474
little ridiculous.

00:37:09.494 --> 00:37:10.034
And to me,

00:37:10.074 --> 00:37:11.534
this also was like the first thing that

00:37:11.554 --> 00:37:12.456
I was like, oh, but why?

00:37:13.536 --> 00:37:14.635
For those of you who've never enabled

00:37:14.655 --> 00:37:15.215
developer mode,

00:37:15.597 --> 00:37:17.117
you have to go into your settings.

00:37:17.137 --> 00:37:18.677
You have to go to about phone and

00:37:18.697 --> 00:37:20.117
then you have to find software build

00:37:20.157 --> 00:37:21.938
number and you tap that seven times.

00:37:24.052 --> 00:37:24.532
Which, I mean,

00:37:24.932 --> 00:37:26.014
obviously it's tapping a screen.

00:37:26.034 --> 00:37:26.893
It's not that hard.

00:37:27.313 --> 00:37:27.974
But just the fact that you...

00:37:27.994 --> 00:37:29.394
Because once you enable developer mode,

00:37:29.855 --> 00:37:31.456
then you unlock a whole new menu of

00:37:31.516 --> 00:37:31.976
settings.

00:37:32.295 --> 00:37:33.277
And it's just kind of like,

00:37:33.356 --> 00:37:34.717
but why do we have to go in

00:37:34.757 --> 00:37:35.818
there to enable this?

00:37:36.577 --> 00:37:37.478
That is very onerous.

00:37:38.059 --> 00:37:40.820
And then they point out that they call

00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:41.880
these scare screens,

00:37:42.260 --> 00:37:43.960
confirming that you are not being coerced.

00:37:45.221 --> 00:37:45.461
You know,

00:37:45.501 --> 00:37:47.362
there's another scare screen warning.

00:37:47.382 --> 00:37:49.103
And then, of course,

00:37:49.143 --> 00:37:50.503
the twenty-four hour waiting period,

00:37:50.563 --> 00:37:50.764
which...

00:37:51.684 --> 00:37:52.503
As Jordan noted,

00:37:53.684 --> 00:37:55.985
Google's argument for the twenty four hour

00:37:56.025 --> 00:37:57.264
waiting period is that.

00:37:58.865 --> 00:38:01.385
So I'm not trying to defend Google here,

00:38:01.405 --> 00:38:02.226
so follow me on this one.

00:38:02.706 --> 00:38:03.686
From what I understand.

00:38:05.387 --> 00:38:07.947
Sideloading malicious apps is a much

00:38:08.047 --> 00:38:10.248
bigger problem in other parts of the world

00:38:10.367 --> 00:38:11.387
outside America and Europe.

00:38:11.429 --> 00:38:12.409
Like I think they said it's going to

00:38:12.449 --> 00:38:13.188
roll out in.

00:38:14.414 --> 00:38:15.373
like Brazil.

00:38:15.474 --> 00:38:15.934
Yeah, here it is.

00:38:15.974 --> 00:38:17.255
Brazil, Singapore, Indonesia,

00:38:17.275 --> 00:38:17.894
and Thailand.

00:38:18.054 --> 00:38:20.175
And that's because those are the areas

00:38:20.235 --> 00:38:22.097
where these types of scams are extremely

00:38:22.137 --> 00:38:22.456
common.

00:38:22.956 --> 00:38:24.797
And the way those scams will work is

00:38:24.836 --> 00:38:26.038
they'll call you with some kind of

00:38:26.077 --> 00:38:27.137
pretense about like, oh,

00:38:27.157 --> 00:38:28.358
your bank account's under attack or

00:38:28.378 --> 00:38:28.778
whatever.

00:38:29.759 --> 00:38:31.119
We need you to update to the latest

00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:31.500
app,

00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:34.000
but it's not in the app store yet.

00:38:34.039 --> 00:38:35.380
So we're going to have you sideload it

00:38:35.501 --> 00:38:36.780
and they walk you through the process.

00:38:37.181 --> 00:38:38.862
So the idea is that if there's a

00:38:42.199 --> 00:38:44.380
most scams, um, as you guys probably know,

00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:46.983
most scams rely on urgency.

00:38:47.164 --> 00:38:48.846
They want you to just do it now

00:38:48.925 --> 00:38:50.347
so that your brain doesn't have time to

00:38:50.387 --> 00:38:51.407
kick in and go, wait a minute.

00:38:51.789 --> 00:38:53.269
Like, I don't know if, uh, well,

00:38:53.309 --> 00:38:54.791
some of the older members of the crowd

00:38:54.831 --> 00:38:55.172
might remember.

00:38:55.192 --> 00:38:56.413
And I'm counting myself when I say that

00:38:56.793 --> 00:38:57.594
back in like,

00:38:57.635 --> 00:38:58.856
there was a scam going around that was

00:38:58.896 --> 00:39:01.338
like, Oh, I was on vacation in like,

00:39:01.458 --> 00:39:02.318
you know, um,

00:39:02.338 --> 00:39:04.240
was it like somewhere in Southeast Asia,

00:39:04.300 --> 00:39:04.802
not India,

00:39:04.822 --> 00:39:05.081
but like

00:39:05.302 --> 00:39:06.083
Not Thailand.

00:39:06.222 --> 00:39:06.943
I can't remember where it was.

00:39:07.344 --> 00:39:07.643
But anyways,

00:39:07.744 --> 00:39:08.885
I was on vacation in this part of

00:39:08.905 --> 00:39:11.447
the world and I lost my passport and

00:39:11.487 --> 00:39:12.527
I got arrested and I need you to

00:39:12.547 --> 00:39:14.090
wire me like two thousand dollars to buy

00:39:14.110 --> 00:39:14.730
a new passport.

00:39:15.070 --> 00:39:16.231
And I remember I got that one from

00:39:16.251 --> 00:39:17.853
my mom and I just laughed and deleted

00:39:17.893 --> 00:39:18.353
it because I'm like,

00:39:18.373 --> 00:39:19.514
we don't have the money to be traveling

00:39:19.554 --> 00:39:19.974
like that.

00:39:20.034 --> 00:39:21.275
Like, I know this is a scam.

00:39:21.536 --> 00:39:22.097
There's no way.

00:39:22.817 --> 00:39:23.737
Um, and so,

00:39:24.257 --> 00:39:25.239
but a lot of the time,

00:39:25.278 --> 00:39:26.478
like when you get those,

00:39:26.518 --> 00:39:27.440
the idea is like, Oh,

00:39:27.480 --> 00:39:27.940
I need it quick.

00:39:27.960 --> 00:39:29.181
Or they're going to, you know, my,

00:39:29.240 --> 00:39:30.262
my hearing is tomorrow.

00:39:30.302 --> 00:39:31.463
Like the embassy is going to be closed

00:39:31.483 --> 00:39:31.862
this weekend.

00:39:31.902 --> 00:39:33.903
Like they want you to not think and

00:39:33.923 --> 00:39:36.125
to just do it because once you start

00:39:36.144 --> 00:39:36.885
to think you're going to be like,

00:39:36.905 --> 00:39:37.346
wait a minute,

00:39:37.746 --> 00:39:38.967
why didn't they tell me they were going

00:39:38.987 --> 00:39:39.527
to Thailand?

00:39:39.568 --> 00:39:40.708
That seems like really big news.

00:39:40.748 --> 00:39:41.389
They would tell me.

00:39:42.088 --> 00:39:43.289
Um, and again,

00:39:43.309 --> 00:39:45.170
there's like a million other variations,

00:39:45.210 --> 00:39:46.211
but the point is that's,

00:39:46.652 --> 00:39:47.291
that's the point of the

00:39:52.193 --> 00:39:54.894
force that that period of time where it

00:39:54.934 --> 00:39:58.617
stops and slows down but um yeah that

00:39:58.717 --> 00:40:00.257
that is still really honest because now

00:40:00.318 --> 00:40:02.418
like let's say i get a brand new

00:40:02.438 --> 00:40:03.838
phone right and i'm trying to set up

00:40:03.878 --> 00:40:06.139
this phone and you know being in privacy

00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:07.760
i do a lot of sideload excuse me

00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:09.621
installing i do a lot of app installing

00:40:09.641 --> 00:40:12.563
from non uh outside the play store and

00:40:12.623 --> 00:40:15.324
so now when i get that phone i

00:40:15.364 --> 00:40:16.784
have to enable this and then wait a

00:40:16.824 --> 00:40:18.686
whole day before i can actually start

00:40:18.726 --> 00:40:19.746
setting up my phone which is

00:40:20.918 --> 00:40:22.440
Really not cool, especially if,

00:40:22.701 --> 00:40:23.021
I don't know,

00:40:23.242 --> 00:40:24.402
your phone blows up or something.

00:40:24.882 --> 00:40:25.764
Wouldn't know anything about that.

00:40:25.985 --> 00:40:28.146
But anyways, yeah, all that to say, like,

00:40:28.487 --> 00:40:28.987
I agree with them.

00:40:29.027 --> 00:40:30.128
I think this is really...

00:40:32.010 --> 00:40:32.891
On the one hand,

00:40:33.452 --> 00:40:35.775
I feel a little bit of sympathy for

00:40:35.815 --> 00:40:36.096
Google.

00:40:36.135 --> 00:40:36.735
Just a little bit.

00:40:37.157 --> 00:40:38.797
Because they do want to... You know,

00:40:38.818 --> 00:40:40.460
they pointed out here in the actual

00:40:40.500 --> 00:40:41.460
article, they said that...

00:40:43.260 --> 00:40:43.719
Where was it?

00:40:44.340 --> 00:40:45.320
Yeah, in a lot of countries,

00:40:45.340 --> 00:40:46.981
there's chatter about if this isn't safer,

00:40:47.001 --> 00:40:48.280
then there may need to be regulatory

00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:51.202
action to lock down more of this stuff.

00:40:51.242 --> 00:40:53.521
And I don't think that it's well

00:40:53.581 --> 00:40:53.961
understood.

00:40:54.483 --> 00:40:56.003
This is a real security concern in a

00:40:56.043 --> 00:40:56.722
number of countries.

00:40:57.123 --> 00:40:59.804
And that came from Google's spokesperson,

00:40:59.864 --> 00:41:02.985
which, yeah, I mean,

00:41:03.045 --> 00:41:05.324
obviously he's trying to push his

00:41:05.364 --> 00:41:06.324
narrative, but I think he's right.

00:41:06.644 --> 00:41:08.005
I think this is a real security concern

00:41:08.025 --> 00:41:08.985
that Google's trying to solve.

00:41:10.103 --> 00:41:10.563
However,

00:41:10.784 --> 00:41:12.405
I also don't have a lot of sympathy

00:41:12.425 --> 00:41:13.905
for Google because I feel like every

00:41:13.965 --> 00:41:15.166
month, at least once a month,

00:41:15.266 --> 00:41:16.467
usually more than once a month,

00:41:16.909 --> 00:41:19.210
I read an article from Bleeping Computer

00:41:19.230 --> 00:41:20.931
or Ars Technica that's like, oh,

00:41:21.132 --> 00:41:22.612
Google just removed an app from the Play

00:41:22.632 --> 00:41:24.514
Store that was malicious and it had like

00:41:24.715 --> 00:41:28.677
a million downloads or a couple million

00:41:28.737 --> 00:41:29.257
downloads.

00:41:29.358 --> 00:41:29.778
And it's like,

00:41:30.398 --> 00:41:31.920
I never read those stories from Apple.

00:41:32.021 --> 00:41:33.981
And again, Apple's got problems.

00:41:34.001 --> 00:41:34.842
I'm not trying to put them up on

00:41:34.862 --> 00:41:35.262
a pedestal.

00:41:35.322 --> 00:41:35.483
But

00:41:36.204 --> 00:41:37.184
My point being is like,

00:41:37.704 --> 00:41:38.664
and they do happen with Apple,

00:41:38.684 --> 00:41:39.065
for the record.

00:41:39.126 --> 00:41:39.726
I've seen them.

00:41:40.206 --> 00:41:42.067
But those happen a couple times a year,

00:41:42.126 --> 00:41:42.547
tops.

00:41:42.967 --> 00:41:43.907
Whereas with Google, again,

00:41:43.927 --> 00:41:44.947
it's like almost every month,

00:41:45.128 --> 00:41:46.108
sometimes even more than that.

00:41:46.168 --> 00:41:48.210
So I find it kind of hypocritical that

00:41:48.250 --> 00:41:48.809
Google's like, oh,

00:41:48.829 --> 00:41:49.891
we need to fix this problem.

00:41:51.012 --> 00:41:52.652
But you're not necessarily guiding people

00:41:52.692 --> 00:41:54.592
towards a safer alternative.

00:41:54.913 --> 00:41:56.454
You haven't really made the Play Store

00:41:56.474 --> 00:41:57.434
safer, in my opinion.

00:41:57.494 --> 00:41:59.516
So it kind of weakens their argument.

00:41:59.615 --> 00:42:01.597
But yeah, yeah.

00:42:03.106 --> 00:42:03.427
I don't know.

00:42:03.748 --> 00:42:05.735
I think if we want to give Google

00:42:05.755 --> 00:42:06.456
the benefit of the doubt,

00:42:06.496 --> 00:42:07.440
which I know a lot of people don't,

00:42:08.262 --> 00:42:09.708
I think they are trying to strike...

00:42:11.143 --> 00:42:12.605
I think now because there's pushback,

00:42:12.644 --> 00:42:14.025
they are trying to strike a balance.

00:42:14.126 --> 00:42:16.086
But I definitely understand that this does

00:42:16.106 --> 00:42:17.206
feel very heavy handed.

00:42:17.608 --> 00:42:18.728
I'm not looking forward to the idea of

00:42:18.748 --> 00:42:20.568
like I'm getting a new phone and now

00:42:20.608 --> 00:42:21.789
I have to wait twenty four hours,

00:42:22.309 --> 00:42:22.730
which I mean,

00:42:22.789 --> 00:42:24.130
I guess I use custom operating systems

00:42:24.150 --> 00:42:24.871
that, you know,

00:42:24.911 --> 00:42:26.251
the classic like that won't affect me.

00:42:26.311 --> 00:42:26.612
But, you know,

00:42:26.833 --> 00:42:28.853
my wife still uses stock Android and she's

00:42:28.873 --> 00:42:30.173
not ready to make the jump to custom

00:42:30.213 --> 00:42:30.974
operating systems yet.

00:42:31.295 --> 00:42:33.356
But she does use like Neo store and

00:42:33.416 --> 00:42:34.856
some of those alternative systems.

00:42:35.157 --> 00:42:37.438
um side loading excuse me uh those

00:42:37.478 --> 00:42:39.199
third-party app installation features and

00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:41.800
so it again it sucks that it's like

00:42:41.820 --> 00:42:43.021
she's gonna get a new phone and it's

00:42:43.041 --> 00:42:44.862
like hey first thing you do go in

00:42:44.882 --> 00:42:46.782
and turn this on because we gotta wait

00:42:46.842 --> 00:42:48.983
a whole freaking day for it to get

00:42:49.023 --> 00:42:51.766
out of the waiting period so yeah i

00:42:51.786 --> 00:42:53.786
don't i don't think this was the best

00:42:53.806 --> 00:42:55.027
solution they could have come up with and

00:42:55.067 --> 00:42:55.967
i i think they um

00:42:57.226 --> 00:42:57.547
I don't know.

00:42:57.646 --> 00:42:58.829
I don't know what is the best solution,

00:42:58.909 --> 00:42:59.208
but yeah,

00:42:59.268 --> 00:43:00.630
I think this is really heavy handed and

00:43:00.670 --> 00:43:03.233
I would like to see something even less

00:43:03.432 --> 00:43:05.195
obnoxious than this personally.

00:43:05.295 --> 00:43:06.835
My big thing is the developer settings,

00:43:06.876 --> 00:43:09.039
but I know there's other issues as well.

00:43:11.081 --> 00:43:12.342
Yeah, I agree.

00:43:12.422 --> 00:43:13.163
I think this is...

00:43:14.914 --> 00:43:16.275
Obviously, it's not ideal,

00:43:16.695 --> 00:43:18.476
but I think it's important to remember

00:43:18.516 --> 00:43:21.117
here a thing that the Keep Android Open

00:43:21.137 --> 00:43:24.036
team was saying here is this entire like

00:43:24.177 --> 00:43:25.637
the thing that we showed before that Nate

00:43:25.657 --> 00:43:26.338
had on the screen,

00:43:26.378 --> 00:43:28.318
it was the entire flow is delivered

00:43:28.438 --> 00:43:31.079
through Google Play services.

00:43:31.838 --> 00:43:33.880
So it's not actually part of

00:43:34.858 --> 00:43:36.318
the Android operating system.

00:43:36.338 --> 00:43:40.621
So the thing with Google Play services is

00:43:40.641 --> 00:43:42.362
that it kind of just automatically updates

00:43:42.483 --> 00:43:44.864
and applies changes to operating system

00:43:44.905 --> 00:43:46.186
without your consent.

00:43:48.887 --> 00:43:50.648
This is useful for Google because they

00:43:50.668 --> 00:43:53.429
need to roll out fixes or introduce new

00:43:53.449 --> 00:43:53.931
features.

00:43:53.990 --> 00:43:56.231
But when it starts being about whether you

00:43:56.251 --> 00:44:00.974
can actually install apps from third party

00:44:01.036 --> 00:44:01.655
sources,

00:44:02.295 --> 00:44:04.077
I don't think we want Google to be

00:44:04.157 --> 00:44:04.318
the

00:44:05.925 --> 00:44:11.391
the arbiter um i think you know uh

00:44:11.411 --> 00:44:13.173
they state here the advanced flow has

00:44:13.233 --> 00:44:15.476
still not appeared in android beta dev

00:44:15.516 --> 00:44:17.878
preview or canary releases so basically

00:44:18.380 --> 00:44:20.561
this entire flow that they're displaying

00:44:20.722 --> 00:44:20.862
is

00:44:22.365 --> 00:44:25.208
basically just a blog post and some UI

00:44:25.568 --> 00:44:26.208
mockups.

00:44:27.431 --> 00:44:29.391
So I think we should wait until we

00:44:29.431 --> 00:44:32.255
see how exactly this works until we

00:44:32.315 --> 00:44:33.396
actually get our hands on it.

00:44:33.456 --> 00:44:36.117
I don't think anyone should be accepting

00:44:36.498 --> 00:44:36.978
this.

00:44:37.318 --> 00:44:40.842
And I think there could be a better

00:44:40.862 --> 00:44:41.643
way to do this.

00:44:42.724 --> 00:44:44.346
I don't know what that solution would be,

00:44:45.025 --> 00:44:46.086
but I think, you know,

00:44:46.367 --> 00:44:47.688
as soon as you start placing

00:44:49.248 --> 00:44:51.771
restrictions on third-party developers,

00:44:51.851 --> 00:44:53.873
I think it's getting to the point of

00:44:53.893 --> 00:44:56.074
like, it's slightly anti-competitive.

00:44:56.173 --> 00:44:56.394
I mean,

00:44:56.474 --> 00:44:57.514
a lot of these apps aren't trying to

00:44:57.534 --> 00:44:58.155
make money,

00:44:58.235 --> 00:44:58.456
but

00:45:00.938 --> 00:45:02.920
I think everyone should get a fair chance

00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:05.143
of being installed on someone's device.

00:45:06.143 --> 00:45:07.985
People should be allowed to choose what

00:45:08.025 --> 00:45:09.146
they want on their device.

00:45:10.128 --> 00:45:11.650
They shouldn't have to go through a

00:45:12.289 --> 00:45:14.753
twenty-four hour waiting period to install

00:45:14.813 --> 00:45:15.893
something on their device.

00:45:17.695 --> 00:45:18.856
We should be able to choose what we

00:45:18.896 --> 00:45:19.898
want on our device.

00:45:20.358 --> 00:45:22.059
So, I don't know,

00:45:22.340 --> 00:45:24.021
I think just from a freedom perspective,

00:45:25.989 --> 00:45:28.172
Everyone should be in favor of people

00:45:28.211 --> 00:45:30.494
being allowed to install software on the

00:45:30.514 --> 00:45:31.974
device that they've paid for.

00:45:32.494 --> 00:45:35.356
Like Google is basically just becoming the

00:45:35.478 --> 00:45:38.679
arbiter of app installs on your device.

00:45:38.719 --> 00:45:41.061
It's like a very, I don't know,

00:45:41.101 --> 00:45:42.782
like people definitely wouldn't have

00:45:42.983 --> 00:45:44.744
accepted this like ten years ago,

00:45:45.425 --> 00:45:46.646
but I feel like we've gotten to a

00:45:46.706 --> 00:45:48.568
point now where like everything is so

00:45:48.648 --> 00:45:49.349
locked down.

00:45:50.009 --> 00:45:52.769
like restrictions on apps are becoming

00:45:53.590 --> 00:45:54.449
worse and worse.

00:45:55.210 --> 00:45:57.210
So people are more likely to accept this

00:45:57.831 --> 00:46:00.291
slight compromise that Google's made here.

00:46:00.371 --> 00:46:03.333
But I think it's still not time

00:46:03.592 --> 00:46:04.353
personally.

00:46:04.632 --> 00:46:04.893
I mean,

00:46:05.052 --> 00:46:07.313
I know Nate said like he was he

00:46:07.353 --> 00:46:09.353
felt like it was a decent middle ground.

00:46:09.514 --> 00:46:11.414
I think it's okay,

00:46:11.494 --> 00:46:13.436
but I think we can definitely push Google

00:46:13.456 --> 00:46:14.376
for something a bit better.

00:46:16.235 --> 00:46:18.277
And hopefully we'll actually see an

00:46:18.336 --> 00:46:20.217
implementation of this before it actually

00:46:20.237 --> 00:46:24.900
gets released.

00:46:25.601 --> 00:46:27.643
Because I think right now we've only got

00:46:27.682 --> 00:46:31.445
like a hundred and sixty three days until

00:46:31.485 --> 00:46:32.206
it's locked down.

00:46:32.465 --> 00:46:34.887
So we need to see a working prototype.

00:46:34.907 --> 00:46:36.449
We need to see at least something from

00:46:36.528 --> 00:46:38.431
Google to know that this is not

00:46:39.568 --> 00:46:41.248
kind of just a sham to make everyone

00:46:41.568 --> 00:46:43.128
stop talking about this and be like,

00:46:43.469 --> 00:46:45.369
Google has announced that they're going to

00:46:45.389 --> 00:46:45.789
fix it.

00:46:47.070 --> 00:46:48.371
You don't need to worry about it anymore,

00:46:48.411 --> 00:46:48.911
everybody.

00:46:49.271 --> 00:46:50.931
And then, you know,

00:46:51.052 --> 00:46:52.211
Google rolls out the original

00:46:52.251 --> 00:46:53.012
implementation.

00:46:55.333 --> 00:46:55.592
But yeah,

00:46:55.612 --> 00:46:57.873
someone says Play Store sucks and

00:46:58.947 --> 00:46:59.208
Yeah,

00:46:59.889 --> 00:47:02.891
I think Nate just said there was so

00:47:02.911 --> 00:47:04.393
much malware on the Play Store.

00:47:05.052 --> 00:47:07.474
I don't think it's particularly useful

00:47:07.534 --> 00:47:09.516
that they're saying... Obviously,

00:47:09.536 --> 00:47:11.137
there's a larger percentage of malware

00:47:11.257 --> 00:47:13.440
used through these unverified apps, right?

00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:16.222
But I don't think the Play Store is

00:47:16.282 --> 00:47:19.625
also very safe because I've got

00:47:20.186 --> 00:47:20.905
grandparents,

00:47:21.025 --> 00:47:23.929
I've got older people in my life, and...

00:47:25.731 --> 00:47:28.614
They absolutely will install a torch app

00:47:28.635 --> 00:47:31.137
that requires your GPS location and your

00:47:31.177 --> 00:47:32.280
camera and your

00:47:33.900 --> 00:47:36.461
messaging history and your contacts and,

00:47:36.983 --> 00:47:37.782
you know, they weren't,

00:47:37.802 --> 00:47:38.983
they weren't bad at that.

00:47:39.103 --> 00:47:41.485
And that's clearly like a data harvesting

00:47:41.565 --> 00:47:44.048
app, but Google play has no problem, uh,

00:47:44.349 --> 00:47:45.849
allowing that app to be, uh,

00:47:45.869 --> 00:47:47.170
installed on people's devices.

00:47:47.550 --> 00:47:47.751
You know,

00:47:47.791 --> 00:47:49.974
there's apps that like spam your phone

00:47:49.994 --> 00:47:53.135
with notifications and like ads that's

00:47:53.195 --> 00:47:54.657
perfectly fine to exist.

00:47:55.577 --> 00:47:58.059
Um, I think, yeah, every,

00:47:58.360 --> 00:48:00.081
every store is going to have, uh,

00:48:01.945 --> 00:48:04.028
Every store is gonna have malware and

00:48:04.108 --> 00:48:04.628
issues.

00:48:05.931 --> 00:48:08.414
I think even really curated ones are gonna

00:48:08.434 --> 00:48:10.317
have apps that have vulnerabilities as

00:48:10.356 --> 00:48:10.657
well.

00:48:11.878 --> 00:48:13.601
And I'm sure something might sneak through

00:48:14.121 --> 00:48:14.661
eventually.

00:48:15.382 --> 00:48:18.126
It's not like there's definitely not a

00:48:18.146 --> 00:48:19.168
zero percent chance

00:48:20.927 --> 00:48:23.110
And I think, yeah,

00:48:23.130 --> 00:48:24.231
most people would prefer,

00:48:24.971 --> 00:48:26.532
most people probably don't even know that

00:48:26.552 --> 00:48:28.052
there's another way to install apps.

00:48:28.092 --> 00:48:29.715
Like most people would just assume that

00:48:29.815 --> 00:48:31.516
Google Play is like where you get your

00:48:31.576 --> 00:48:32.076
apps from.

00:48:32.135 --> 00:48:34.197
Like it's kind of a problem that Google's

00:48:34.237 --> 00:48:36.340
created because they want to be the number

00:48:36.460 --> 00:48:37.900
one place to get apps, right?

00:48:38.740 --> 00:48:41.282
So yeah, anyway, sorry,

00:48:41.322 --> 00:48:43.525
I feel like I've been rambling a little

00:48:43.545 --> 00:48:43.744
bit,

00:48:43.784 --> 00:48:46.786
but hopefully that helped add some points

00:48:46.827 --> 00:48:47.568
to discuss here.

00:48:49.284 --> 00:48:50.164
I mean, I ramble plenty,

00:48:50.244 --> 00:48:51.704
so it's totally fair.

00:48:52.985 --> 00:48:53.244
Yeah.

00:48:53.324 --> 00:48:53.846
And I mean,

00:48:54.226 --> 00:48:55.166
just to kind of back up what you

00:48:55.186 --> 00:48:55.905
were saying, like, yeah,

00:48:55.985 --> 00:48:58.007
there's never going to be a perfectly

00:48:59.286 --> 00:49:00.967
vulnerability free store.

00:49:01.047 --> 00:49:01.608
I mean, like I said,

00:49:01.648 --> 00:49:03.228
it happens to iOS every now and then.

00:49:03.688 --> 00:49:05.449
It's just it happens a lot less on

00:49:05.630 --> 00:49:06.070
iOS.

00:49:06.130 --> 00:49:08.391
And I feel like to Google's defense to

00:49:08.411 --> 00:49:09.751
what you were saying is they will remove

00:49:09.891 --> 00:49:11.291
apps as far as I know once they

00:49:11.311 --> 00:49:11.751
get found.

00:49:12.652 --> 00:49:14.175
But it's the fact that they got there

00:49:14.215 --> 00:49:14.876
on the first place.

00:49:14.896 --> 00:49:15.056
Like,

00:49:15.076 --> 00:49:16.978
why does this happen so much less on

00:49:17.159 --> 00:49:17.619
iPhone?

00:49:18.280 --> 00:49:19.682
And I have to assume it's a vetting

00:49:19.722 --> 00:49:21.485
thing because, you know, I mean, sure,

00:49:21.505 --> 00:49:23.027
there's a higher barrier to entry to put

00:49:23.068 --> 00:49:24.530
your apps on an iPhone in the first

00:49:24.550 --> 00:49:24.809
place.

00:49:24.831 --> 00:49:25.911
But at the same time, it's like,

00:49:26.826 --> 00:49:28.286
They still try to submit malicious apps

00:49:28.306 --> 00:49:28.708
there too.

00:49:28.728 --> 00:49:29.788
Like there was a study a few years

00:49:29.807 --> 00:49:32.851
ago about how Apple has stopped like a

00:49:32.871 --> 00:49:34.612
quarter of a million malicious apps from

00:49:34.672 --> 00:49:35.572
ending up in the app store.

00:49:35.833 --> 00:49:37.134
To be fair, maybe Google's got like,

00:49:37.153 --> 00:49:38.074
we've stopped one million.

00:49:38.094 --> 00:49:39.315
Like I don't know what their stats are.

00:49:39.655 --> 00:49:40.536
But my point being is like,

00:49:40.556 --> 00:49:42.498
clearly Google could put more effort into

00:49:42.538 --> 00:49:42.739
this.

00:49:42.759 --> 00:49:43.719
And I just feel like it's really

00:49:43.759 --> 00:49:44.739
disingenuous to be like,

00:49:45.019 --> 00:49:46.021
we want to keep people safe.

00:49:46.300 --> 00:49:47.262
So we're going to push them into our

00:49:47.302 --> 00:49:50.664
store, which is only marginally safer,

00:49:50.885 --> 00:49:51.445
arguably.

00:49:51.545 --> 00:49:52.545
And it's also like a...

00:49:53.626 --> 00:49:55.148
um, what do you call that?

00:49:55.168 --> 00:49:57.050
Like a survivor bias or a confirmation

00:49:57.090 --> 00:49:58.951
bias where it's like, okay, sure.

00:49:59.070 --> 00:50:01.233
We hear about all the maliciously

00:50:01.373 --> 00:50:03.054
third-party unverified apps that get

00:50:03.074 --> 00:50:05.135
installed, but at the same time,

00:50:05.295 --> 00:50:06.396
what about the, you know, I,

00:50:07.657 --> 00:50:08.858
at least fifty percent,

00:50:08.958 --> 00:50:09.858
probably more than that,

00:50:09.958 --> 00:50:12.019
of the apps on my phone are third-party

00:50:12.360 --> 00:50:13.320
unverified apps.

00:50:13.340 --> 00:50:15.043
They're, you know, NextCloud, they're, um,

00:50:15.963 --> 00:50:16.905
Trying to think what else I have on

00:50:16.925 --> 00:50:17.065
there.

00:50:17.085 --> 00:50:17.425
I don't know.

00:50:17.465 --> 00:50:18.465
My brain's drawn a blank, but they're,

00:50:18.545 --> 00:50:20.206
they're all things that like signal,

00:50:20.327 --> 00:50:20.766
you know, they're,

00:50:20.786 --> 00:50:23.028
they're all things that I can obtain from

00:50:23.168 --> 00:50:24.130
outside the play store.

00:50:24.170 --> 00:50:25.510
So I prefer to do that because I

00:50:25.530 --> 00:50:26.811
don't want the Google analytics there.

00:50:27.552 --> 00:50:29.153
And it's like, those are never malicious.

00:50:29.193 --> 00:50:32.195
So those never get reported, but you know,

00:50:32.356 --> 00:50:35.577
it's yeah, I don't know, but it's crazy.

00:50:35.637 --> 00:50:36.179
And just to be clear,

00:50:36.219 --> 00:50:37.579
I didn't necessarily say I like this

00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:38.079
solution.

00:50:38.199 --> 00:50:40.021
It's just not as crappy as what it

00:50:40.081 --> 00:50:40.342
was.

00:50:41.943 --> 00:50:43.666
but yeah, it's still not great.

00:50:45.108 --> 00:50:46.630
And one thing I think you mentioned

00:50:46.670 --> 00:50:46.990
earlier,

00:50:47.010 --> 00:50:48.032
but I kind of forgot to touch on

00:50:48.052 --> 00:50:48.974
as well is this whole,

00:50:50.208 --> 00:50:52.047
Google is not really giving satisfying

00:50:52.188 --> 00:50:53.628
answers to a lot of this stuff.

00:50:53.768 --> 00:50:53.969
Like,

00:50:54.369 --> 00:50:55.489
so you mentioned the twenty five dollar

00:50:55.509 --> 00:50:57.248
fee and how twenty five dollars is like

00:50:57.309 --> 00:50:58.590
a lot more to somebody in like India,

00:50:58.610 --> 00:50:59.150
for example.

00:50:59.650 --> 00:51:01.030
And he did say that like, oh,

00:51:01.070 --> 00:51:02.010
we're going to account for that.

00:51:02.030 --> 00:51:04.411
We're going to kind of balance it out.

00:51:04.490 --> 00:51:06.570
But it's like this.

00:51:07.472 --> 00:51:07.871
Who was it?

00:51:07.891 --> 00:51:09.012
The Samat person.

00:51:09.652 --> 00:51:10.512
I forget what the role is,

00:51:10.572 --> 00:51:12.193
but they didn't really answer any

00:51:12.233 --> 00:51:13.472
questions like they did.

00:51:15.117 --> 00:51:16.119
at least this Ars Technica,

00:51:16.139 --> 00:51:16.940
they mentioned like,

00:51:16.960 --> 00:51:18.382
I don't know if they actually asked Google

00:51:18.402 --> 00:51:18.742
directly,

00:51:19.121 --> 00:51:20.704
but they did mention things like one of

00:51:20.724 --> 00:51:22.025
the concerns is that Google is now

00:51:22.085 --> 00:51:24.148
building this list of app developers if

00:51:24.208 --> 00:51:25.889
the developers choose to get verified,

00:51:26.809 --> 00:51:28.512
which already presents a host of privacy

00:51:28.552 --> 00:51:29.393
and security concerns.

00:51:29.432 --> 00:51:30.554
Like here in America,

00:51:30.614 --> 00:51:31.914
we had that whole like a, like that,

00:51:31.976 --> 00:51:32.275
what was that?

00:51:32.396 --> 00:51:34.038
Ice spotter, ice block or something.

00:51:34.077 --> 00:51:35.579
We had that app where you could report

00:51:36.019 --> 00:51:37.181
sightings of people

00:51:38.086 --> 00:51:38.867
Immigration agents.

00:51:39.547 --> 00:51:41.407
And in some countries,

00:51:41.648 --> 00:51:43.648
that is super illegal.

00:51:43.748 --> 00:51:45.748
Even just peacefully putting some kind of

00:51:45.768 --> 00:51:47.389
protest app, super illegal.

00:51:47.750 --> 00:51:49.951
And so if that person chooses to verify,

00:51:50.331 --> 00:51:51.710
now Google has their information.

00:51:51.731 --> 00:51:52.371
They have their payment.

00:51:52.391 --> 00:51:53.351
They have their government ID.

00:51:53.391 --> 00:51:54.632
They know exactly who they are.

00:51:55.211 --> 00:51:56.293
And so Google...

00:51:57.353 --> 00:51:58.554
Um, like actually right here,

00:51:58.594 --> 00:51:59.954
Google swears is not interested in the

00:51:59.994 --> 00:52:01.394
content of the apps and it won't be

00:52:01.434 --> 00:52:02.956
checking proactively when registers

00:52:02.996 --> 00:52:05.577
developer, uh, when developers register,

00:52:05.777 --> 00:52:06.777
excuse me, I can't talk tonight.

00:52:06.797 --> 00:52:07.539
Um,

00:52:07.559 --> 00:52:09.199
this is only about identity verification

00:52:09.340 --> 00:52:10.940
so that basically if they become a,

00:52:11.001 --> 00:52:12.442
if the developer distributes malware,

00:52:12.461 --> 00:52:13.902
they're unlikely to remain verified and

00:52:13.922 --> 00:52:15.123
they can get booted from the program.

00:52:15.744 --> 00:52:15.864
Um,

00:52:16.925 --> 00:52:19.586
but then like, you know, when he's a,

00:52:19.606 --> 00:52:21.307
when this smart person, he's like, Oh,

00:52:21.367 --> 00:52:22.748
but this, uh, you know,

00:52:22.768 --> 00:52:24.248
we're not keeping a list of developers.

00:52:24.630 --> 00:52:25.769
Well then how are you going to verify

00:52:25.809 --> 00:52:27.110
if somebody is a repeat offender?

00:52:27.391 --> 00:52:27.831
Like your,

00:52:27.911 --> 00:52:29.711
your answers don't make sense here.

00:52:29.771 --> 00:52:31.572
And yeah.

00:52:32.253 --> 00:52:34.014
Um, I also just need to,

00:52:34.074 --> 00:52:35.293
to be snarky and point out,

00:52:35.373 --> 00:52:35.994
he says that, uh,

00:52:37.034 --> 00:52:38.396
Not everything is malware.

00:52:38.456 --> 00:52:39.436
It depends on the context.

00:52:39.456 --> 00:52:40.639
So like a rootkit is malware,

00:52:40.938 --> 00:52:42.340
but a rootkit you download intentionally

00:52:42.360 --> 00:52:43.563
because you want to root access to your

00:52:43.583 --> 00:52:44.443
phone is not malware.

00:52:44.764 --> 00:52:45.204
Likewise,

00:52:45.284 --> 00:52:46.527
an alternative YouTube client that

00:52:46.547 --> 00:52:48.409
bypasses Google's ads and feature limits

00:52:48.489 --> 00:52:49.951
isn't causing the kind of harm that would

00:52:49.971 --> 00:52:51.273
lead to issues with verification.

00:52:52.034 --> 00:52:54.954
Anybody who uses things like NewPipe or

00:52:55.056 --> 00:52:57.077
FreeTube knows that those things break

00:52:57.097 --> 00:52:58.637
about once a month because Google does

00:52:58.657 --> 00:52:59.898
something on their end to block it.

00:53:00.257 --> 00:53:01.818
And then they have to update and do

00:53:01.838 --> 00:53:02.458
the cat and mouse.

00:53:02.478 --> 00:53:03.539
So yeah,

00:53:03.659 --> 00:53:04.619
that was just kind of funny to hear

00:53:04.659 --> 00:53:05.219
them cite that.

00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:06.280
I don't think that came from Google,

00:53:06.300 --> 00:53:07.221
for the record.

00:53:07.302 --> 00:53:08.202
I think ours wrote that.

00:53:08.282 --> 00:53:09.862
But it's still kind of funny to hear

00:53:09.882 --> 00:53:10.822
them cite that as an example.

00:53:10.842 --> 00:53:11.342
And it's like, yeah,

00:53:11.362 --> 00:53:13.003
but Google still treats that stuff in a

00:53:13.043 --> 00:53:13.804
very hostile manner.

00:53:15.728 --> 00:53:15.807
Yeah.

00:53:16.047 --> 00:53:16.487
Yeah.

00:53:16.507 --> 00:53:18.469
I think the other thing that you kind

00:53:18.509 --> 00:53:19.610
of mentioned it a little bit,

00:53:19.630 --> 00:53:21.030
like with the ice block thing,

00:53:21.170 --> 00:53:22.710
but I think there's plenty of countries

00:53:22.731 --> 00:53:24.231
that we've already seen this happen with

00:53:24.271 --> 00:53:25.211
where like, you know,

00:53:25.711 --> 00:53:27.512
having a centralized app store kind of

00:53:28.273 --> 00:53:31.255
allows governments to basically get apps

00:53:31.315 --> 00:53:33.996
removed or to like have apps not be

00:53:34.916 --> 00:53:36.456
allowed to install on devices.

00:53:36.496 --> 00:53:37.657
Like I'm pretty sure the,

00:53:37.677 --> 00:53:39.798
the way that works, like in China,

00:53:39.838 --> 00:53:41.619
a lot of apps don't want to comply

00:53:41.659 --> 00:53:43.940
with a lot of the like legislation that

00:53:43.960 --> 00:53:44.380
they have.

00:53:44.440 --> 00:53:45.101
Like, Oh, you've got to,

00:53:46.451 --> 00:53:47.891
share a certain amount of data or you

00:53:47.931 --> 00:53:50.273
have to meet these like economic

00:53:50.293 --> 00:53:51.454
requirements or whatever.

00:53:51.855 --> 00:53:52.476
Um,

00:53:52.615 --> 00:53:54.418
and so they're actually just removed from

00:53:54.458 --> 00:53:56.219
the play store or for like censorship

00:53:56.239 --> 00:53:56.599
reasons.

00:53:56.639 --> 00:53:58.661
Like there's stuff that's being shared on

00:53:58.681 --> 00:54:01.202
those platforms that they don't want, um,

00:54:01.242 --> 00:54:03.125
people to access basically.

00:54:03.905 --> 00:54:05.646
Um, so having the centralized,

00:54:05.666 --> 00:54:07.467
like we already saw this with like iOS

00:54:07.487 --> 00:54:08.009
devices,

00:54:08.128 --> 00:54:09.710
basically turns your phone into a Rick.

00:54:09.769 --> 00:54:11.411
Like you can't install the software that

00:54:11.431 --> 00:54:12.032
you want on it.

00:54:12.092 --> 00:54:12.351
Right.

00:54:13.172 --> 00:54:13.293
Um,

00:54:14.909 --> 00:54:15.070
But yeah,

00:54:15.130 --> 00:54:17.413
I think it's like it's like with Linux,

00:54:17.492 --> 00:54:17.693
right?

00:54:17.733 --> 00:54:21.338
You can kind of install software from a

00:54:21.838 --> 00:54:24.702
trusted repository and you can also add

00:54:25.021 --> 00:54:26.423
additional repositories.

00:54:26.503 --> 00:54:28.505
I think it should work similar on Android.

00:54:28.525 --> 00:54:30.387
Like you should have the option to have

00:54:31.610 --> 00:54:34.851
install stuff from additional places.

00:54:35.592 --> 00:54:39.333
Maybe there's more of a warning about it,

00:54:39.974 --> 00:54:41.353
but I don't think having to go through

00:54:41.693 --> 00:54:44.655
developer settings and all this stuff is

00:54:45.335 --> 00:54:46.476
particularly great.

00:54:47.237 --> 00:54:48.637
I think it definitely also puts up a

00:54:48.677 --> 00:54:49.458
bit of a barrier,

00:54:49.518 --> 00:54:50.297
especially when you're like,

00:54:51.891 --> 00:54:53.152
showing all these warnings like,

00:54:53.873 --> 00:54:55.355
this is very un-recommended.

00:54:55.554 --> 00:54:57.476
What you're about to do could compromise

00:54:57.496 --> 00:54:58.117
your device.

00:54:58.237 --> 00:55:01.818
It's not gonna sit well with someone who

00:55:01.878 --> 00:55:04.681
doesn't understand the technical reasons

00:55:04.721 --> 00:55:06.021
why they're showing that.

00:55:07.063 --> 00:55:07.443
Yes,

00:55:07.603 --> 00:55:09.605
a lot of cases it's it could be

00:55:09.724 --> 00:55:11.525
useful for someone to see that warning.

00:55:12.126 --> 00:55:13.867
But if it's like someone and they're like,

00:55:14.047 --> 00:55:14.248
oh,

00:55:14.849 --> 00:55:16.349
I want to be able to watch YouTube

00:55:16.389 --> 00:55:17.550
with without the ads,

00:55:17.590 --> 00:55:19.052
I'm going to download new pipe.

00:55:19.271 --> 00:55:21.054
And it's like this app could compromise

00:55:21.074 --> 00:55:21.693
your device.

00:55:21.733 --> 00:55:24.777
This is a highly this is a highly

00:55:25.757 --> 00:55:27.438
suspicious action you're about to take.

00:55:27.478 --> 00:55:28.659
Are you sure you want to do this?

00:55:28.699 --> 00:55:29.659
People are going to be like, oh,

00:55:29.699 --> 00:55:30.661
this is just malware.

00:55:30.701 --> 00:55:32.001
I'm just installing malware.

00:55:32.842 --> 00:55:33.762
It's not malware.

00:55:34.403 --> 00:55:34.523
So

00:55:36.246 --> 00:55:36.666
I don't know,

00:55:37.206 --> 00:55:40.369
not really happy with this situation.

00:55:40.528 --> 00:55:42.349
I think we're going to keep pushing Google

00:55:42.389 --> 00:55:44.652
here to make a better decision.

00:55:44.952 --> 00:55:46.393
I just think they should go back on

00:55:46.452 --> 00:55:48.934
all of this and just go back to

00:55:48.954 --> 00:55:49.795
what it was before.

00:55:49.934 --> 00:55:51.996
Like you have to enable it, right?

00:55:52.217 --> 00:55:52.436
But

00:55:54.010 --> 00:55:55.612
it should still be an option for people.

00:55:56.652 --> 00:55:57.333
Um,

00:55:57.373 --> 00:55:58.534
I don't know if there's a better way.

00:55:58.594 --> 00:56:01.297
Maybe they have a way of scanning like

00:56:02.257 --> 00:56:04.239
the device to see if the permissions are

00:56:04.280 --> 00:56:06.342
suspicious or I don't know.

00:56:06.402 --> 00:56:07.583
I can't really think of a better way

00:56:07.623 --> 00:56:09.344
that doesn't involve Google just like

00:56:10.686 --> 00:56:12.588
doing more invasive stuff on your device.

00:56:12.688 --> 00:56:12.887
But

00:56:14.382 --> 00:56:14.563
I mean,

00:56:14.603 --> 00:56:16.083
I think it should go back to how,

00:56:16.384 --> 00:56:17.304
like how it is on Linux.

00:56:17.324 --> 00:56:18.626
Like you can install additional

00:56:18.666 --> 00:56:19.246
repositories,

00:56:19.266 --> 00:56:21.407
you can install the applications you want

00:56:21.447 --> 00:56:22.148
on your device.

00:56:22.288 --> 00:56:25.469
And that is an increased risk of using

00:56:25.510 --> 00:56:28.431
a third party platform to install packages

00:56:28.530 --> 00:56:30.271
or like using a third party repository.

00:56:30.913 --> 00:56:32.414
But that should be up to the user

00:56:32.934 --> 00:56:34.554
to determine if they want to take that

00:56:34.614 --> 00:56:35.534
risk, not Google,

00:56:35.576 --> 00:56:37.956
who's like making that decision for you.

00:56:39.726 --> 00:56:41.268
But yeah,

00:56:41.307 --> 00:56:43.487
that's pretty much all my thoughts on this

00:56:43.608 --> 00:56:43.768
one.

00:56:44.688 --> 00:56:45.809
Do you want to take the next story

00:56:45.829 --> 00:56:46.168
here, Nate?

00:56:47.510 --> 00:56:48.710
Yeah, sure.

00:56:49.690 --> 00:56:52.150
So this will probably be a pretty quick

00:56:52.271 --> 00:56:52.371
one.

00:56:52.510 --> 00:56:53.751
I just thought it was really interesting

00:56:53.811 --> 00:56:56.072
because I am a nerd who really likes

00:56:56.112 --> 00:56:56.913
thought experiments.

00:56:57.132 --> 00:56:59.454
And the headline from this one,

00:56:59.494 --> 00:57:00.414
this comes from Slashdot.

00:57:00.454 --> 00:57:02.255
It says, should Banksy remain anonymous?

00:57:02.414 --> 00:57:04.416
And the original article comes from

00:57:04.516 --> 00:57:04.956
Reuters.

00:57:05.195 --> 00:57:07.577
And Reuters did this really deep dive

00:57:08.481 --> 00:57:10.081
um, really deep dive.

00:57:10.101 --> 00:57:10.902
Uh, I'll be honest.

00:57:10.943 --> 00:57:12.023
I didn't read it all cause it's so

00:57:12.063 --> 00:57:12.943
long, but I skimmed it.

00:57:13.523 --> 00:57:15.804
And, uh, they tried to identify Banksy,

00:57:15.844 --> 00:57:17.784
which for anyone who doesn't know Banksy

00:57:17.804 --> 00:57:20.565
is a very, very famous, um,

00:57:20.585 --> 00:57:21.905
graffiti artist, I guess you would say.

00:57:21.925 --> 00:57:22.686
Uh, well, I mean,

00:57:22.706 --> 00:57:24.085
I would say artist in general,

00:57:24.126 --> 00:57:25.686
he's done a lot of like legit artwork

00:57:25.726 --> 00:57:26.047
as well,

00:57:26.547 --> 00:57:27.706
but he's also well known for doing

00:57:27.786 --> 00:57:29.887
graffiti work, um, all around the world,

00:57:29.947 --> 00:57:31.507
actually, not just he's from the UK,

00:57:31.547 --> 00:57:32.929
I believe, but, uh,

00:57:33.829 --> 00:57:34.909
Well, we're assuming he's from the UK.

00:57:34.969 --> 00:57:36.030
I believe that's where he's most active.

00:57:36.550 --> 00:57:38.192
But Reuters did this deep,

00:57:38.211 --> 00:57:40.554
deep dive to try and figure out who

00:57:40.574 --> 00:57:42.155
Banksy was because there's been a lot of

00:57:43.615 --> 00:57:44.056
I mean, of course,

00:57:44.076 --> 00:57:45.277
there's been a lot of speculation over the

00:57:45.317 --> 00:57:45.617
years.

00:57:45.777 --> 00:57:47.179
And there's also just been a lot of

00:57:48.119 --> 00:57:49.119
there's been a couple of like,

00:57:49.159 --> 00:57:50.181
we're pretty sure it's this guy.

00:57:50.221 --> 00:57:51.121
It might be this guy.

00:57:51.581 --> 00:57:53.543
But they set out to like for sure

00:57:53.583 --> 00:57:54.664
figure out who he is.

00:57:54.923 --> 00:57:57.186
And spoiler alert, I think they did.

00:57:58.306 --> 00:57:59.847
And I kind of don't like that personally.

00:57:59.867 --> 00:58:00.806
I think it took some of the magic

00:58:00.847 --> 00:58:01.166
out of it.

00:58:01.807 --> 00:58:05.188
But I liked this headline of should Banksy

00:58:05.228 --> 00:58:05.909
remain anonymous?

00:58:06.570 --> 00:58:07.771
And I thought that was something

00:58:07.911 --> 00:58:09.851
interesting to think about because there's

00:58:09.871 --> 00:58:10.831
a few different angles here.

00:58:11.512 --> 00:58:13.213
One of them is a legal liability.

00:58:13.793 --> 00:58:14.994
This dude is technically a graffiti

00:58:15.034 --> 00:58:16.175
artist, although...

00:58:17.422 --> 00:58:18.603
I don't think it's here in the Slashdot

00:58:18.643 --> 00:58:18.923
summary,

00:58:18.963 --> 00:58:20.224
but in the actual Reuters article,

00:58:20.244 --> 00:58:22.465
they mentioned how he does kind of seem

00:58:22.485 --> 00:58:24.248
to get a pass because he is so

00:58:24.288 --> 00:58:24.827
well-known.

00:58:25.068 --> 00:58:26.528
And to be fair,

00:58:26.568 --> 00:58:27.989
his art probably brings a lot of tourists

00:58:28.010 --> 00:58:28.369
and stuff.

00:58:28.670 --> 00:58:29.990
So even though he's technically doing

00:58:30.070 --> 00:58:30.811
illegal things,

00:58:31.271 --> 00:58:32.492
other graffiti artists have noticed.

00:58:32.512 --> 00:58:33.333
It's like, if I did that,

00:58:33.534 --> 00:58:35.014
I would absolutely go to jail.

00:58:36.215 --> 00:58:37.536
But the police don't even seem interested

00:58:37.556 --> 00:58:38.737
in figuring out who he is anymore.

00:58:38.777 --> 00:58:40.038
They're just like, yeah, whatever.

00:58:40.077 --> 00:58:40.597
He made some art.

00:58:40.617 --> 00:58:41.478
Let's clean it up and move on.

00:58:42.059 --> 00:58:42.378
But...

00:58:43.380 --> 00:58:45.740
They also talked about his lawyer when

00:58:46.280 --> 00:58:48.721
Reuters reached out to them and said like,

00:58:49.041 --> 00:58:50.262
hey, we want a statement for this piece.

00:58:50.681 --> 00:58:52.601
He urged us not to publish this report,

00:58:52.641 --> 00:58:54.143
saying doing so would violate the artist's

00:58:54.182 --> 00:58:55.862
privacy, interfere with his art,

00:58:55.943 --> 00:58:57.063
and put him in danger.

00:58:57.083 --> 00:59:00.324
And they pointed out again that what he's

00:59:00.364 --> 00:59:03.065
doing is technically illegal and the

00:59:03.085 --> 00:59:04.326
police could come after him and it could

00:59:04.365 --> 00:59:05.465
stifle free speech.

00:59:06.065 --> 00:59:07.746
So yeah,

00:59:07.766 --> 00:59:09.206
it was just – it was really interesting

00:59:09.226 --> 00:59:10.537
to –

00:59:10.481 --> 00:59:11.963
um i mean i i have a feeling

00:59:12.123 --> 00:59:13.302
our our whole audience is going to say

00:59:13.322 --> 00:59:15.063
like yes he should remain anonymous or

00:59:15.103 --> 00:59:16.144
maybe not maybe you're one of those like

00:59:16.364 --> 00:59:18.005
hardline lawful good people that's like

00:59:18.025 --> 00:59:19.585
yeah it doesn't matter if he's not doing

00:59:19.606 --> 00:59:21.606
any real damage i mean he's costing some

00:59:21.626 --> 00:59:22.927
people some paint on their building but

00:59:22.967 --> 00:59:24.108
other than that he's not doing any real

00:59:24.148 --> 00:59:26.829
damage let him do his thing but it

00:59:26.849 --> 00:59:28.570
was just really interesting to see this um

00:59:28.789 --> 00:59:31.351
this again huge deep investigation on the

00:59:31.371 --> 00:59:33.753
front page of reuters that uh kind of

00:59:33.793 --> 00:59:34.572
challenged like

00:59:36.498 --> 00:59:36.760
I don't know.

00:59:36.800 --> 00:59:38.664
It was just really interesting.

00:59:38.684 --> 00:59:39.867
I don't think I have much more to

00:59:40.086 --> 00:59:41.289
add than that, to be totally honest.

00:59:41.329 --> 00:59:41.550
But to...

00:59:43.547 --> 00:59:44.686
To kind of like, where is that line?

00:59:44.947 --> 00:59:45.987
I think that's kind of where my mind

00:59:46.007 --> 00:59:46.108
went.

00:59:46.128 --> 00:59:47.228
It's like, where is that line of like,

00:59:47.248 --> 00:59:48.887
again, yes, he's doing something illegal.

00:59:48.947 --> 00:59:51.309
He should not be allowed to do that,

00:59:51.389 --> 00:59:53.128
but also like free speech and free

00:59:53.188 --> 00:59:53.730
expression.

00:59:53.769 --> 00:59:56.250
And it's not just the UK.

00:59:56.289 --> 00:59:57.871
He protests things all over the world.

00:59:57.891 --> 01:00:01.311
Like he's drawn on the walls in Palestine,

01:00:01.371 --> 01:00:03.112
separating Israel from Palestine.

01:00:03.851 --> 01:00:05.172
Most recently he was in Ukraine,

01:00:05.192 --> 01:00:07.072
which is what sparked this investigation.

01:00:07.592 --> 01:00:11.333
So it's not all like him saying,

01:00:11.733 --> 01:00:13.074
living in a repressive regime,

01:00:13.114 --> 01:00:14.175
criticizing his government.

01:00:14.215 --> 01:00:15.335
Well, I don't know.

01:00:15.356 --> 01:00:16.235
Some of the stuff I've seen come out

01:00:16.255 --> 01:00:17.677
of the UK lately has me really worried.

01:00:17.717 --> 01:00:19.077
Maybe he is living in a repressive regime,

01:00:19.117 --> 01:00:20.358
but it's not all that.

01:00:20.418 --> 01:00:22.280
It's also him going to other places around

01:00:22.320 --> 01:00:24.101
the world just to make all kinds of

01:00:24.141 --> 01:00:24.702
statements,

01:00:25.523 --> 01:00:26.603
all kinds of political statements,

01:00:26.664 --> 01:00:26.983
I guess.

01:00:27.043 --> 01:00:28.065
But, you know,

01:00:28.105 --> 01:00:29.786
just kind of the hippie stuff, you know,

01:00:29.806 --> 01:00:29.925
like,

01:00:29.945 --> 01:00:31.286
why can't we all just get along kind

01:00:31.327 --> 01:00:32.307
of political statements?

01:00:32.347 --> 01:00:35.489
But it's yeah.

01:00:36.231 --> 01:00:36.530
Like I said,

01:00:36.570 --> 01:00:37.851
I really don't have too much to add

01:00:37.871 --> 01:00:38.311
to that one.

01:00:38.351 --> 01:00:40.134
It's just it's just an interesting story

01:00:40.273 --> 01:00:40.474
that

01:00:42.300 --> 01:00:45.182
I thought was a good discussion about,

01:00:46.423 --> 01:00:48.105
I guess about public interest, right?

01:00:48.125 --> 01:00:49.766
Because we think about that a lot too,

01:00:49.806 --> 01:00:52.967
about famous people and how much privacy

01:00:52.987 --> 01:00:55.190
versus transparency do they deserve

01:00:55.269 --> 01:00:56.289
depending on their roles.

01:00:56.311 --> 01:00:57.871
And I don't know.

01:00:57.931 --> 01:00:58.771
I like thought experiments.

01:00:58.992 --> 01:01:00.172
I think that's what prompted me to want

01:01:00.193 --> 01:01:00.873
to talk about this one.

01:01:00.893 --> 01:01:04.315
I don't know if you have any thoughts

01:01:04.356 --> 01:01:04.856
on this.

01:01:05.056 --> 01:01:06.317
I think when it comes to art,

01:01:06.416 --> 01:01:06.737
I think

01:01:07.913 --> 01:01:09.414
this is, you know,

01:01:09.454 --> 01:01:10.994
there's plenty of artists that do this

01:01:11.034 --> 01:01:12.896
sort of stuff, like not just Banksy.

01:01:13.036 --> 01:01:17.119
Um, and you know, obviously people,

01:01:17.278 --> 01:01:18.860
the government is not going to be super

01:01:18.920 --> 01:01:20.601
happy if you're like defacing a public

01:01:20.641 --> 01:01:23.302
building or like there's a, there's,

01:01:23.322 --> 01:01:24.704
I think defacing is,

01:01:24.925 --> 01:01:27.186
is certainly up in the air, right?

01:01:27.226 --> 01:01:29.527
Like I think in a lot of cases,

01:01:29.827 --> 01:01:29.907
uh,

01:01:31.637 --> 01:01:33.199
it's very much like, you know,

01:01:34.179 --> 01:01:35.300
trying to make a message,

01:01:35.661 --> 01:01:37.143
trying to make a pub,

01:01:37.222 --> 01:01:39.364
make a message publicly,

01:01:39.465 --> 01:01:41.126
people publicly aware of an issue,

01:01:41.666 --> 01:01:43.047
for instance, like, uh,

01:01:43.807 --> 01:01:44.528
I don't know if it's,

01:01:45.068 --> 01:01:46.449
we've had a lot of like street art

01:01:46.469 --> 01:01:48.472
just like pop, pop up in Sydney,

01:01:48.532 --> 01:01:50.574
Australia, like, and it was never,

01:01:50.673 --> 01:01:51.034
you know,

01:01:51.695 --> 01:01:53.155
it was never publicly sanctioned.

01:01:53.215 --> 01:01:54.916
It's just a lot of it's to do

01:01:54.936 --> 01:01:55.458
with like

01:01:57.094 --> 01:02:00.175
know street art um criticizing the

01:02:00.215 --> 01:02:03.677
government criticizing like social justice

01:02:03.737 --> 01:02:08.039
issues um i think you know it's not

01:02:08.059 --> 01:02:11.121
really hurting anybody so i think you know

01:02:11.141 --> 01:02:14.704
maybe i'm it's it's it's showing an art

01:02:14.844 --> 01:02:17.106
artist's vision i think in a lot of

01:02:17.146 --> 01:02:19.527
cases when there's like graffiti uh

01:02:21.434 --> 01:02:23.456
it actually brings people, like Nate said,

01:02:23.496 --> 01:02:25.097
it's like a tourism thing,

01:02:25.177 --> 01:02:26.918
especially when it's like a famous artist.

01:02:27.360 --> 01:02:28.561
There's plenty of places where there's

01:02:28.581 --> 01:02:29.922
like graffiti in places.

01:02:30.182 --> 01:02:30.382
Um,

01:02:31.204 --> 01:02:32.985
and people come there just cause they want

01:02:33.005 --> 01:02:33.846
to take pictures.

01:02:34.306 --> 01:02:34.387
Um,

01:02:34.427 --> 01:02:36.809
it doesn't have to be any famous artists.

01:02:36.849 --> 01:02:37.088
Right.

01:02:37.289 --> 01:02:40.552
Um, but I think, you know,

01:02:40.652 --> 01:02:42.795
it's part of the community.

01:02:42.835 --> 01:02:43.815
It's part of like,

01:02:45.699 --> 01:02:46.041
it's just,

01:02:46.061 --> 01:02:48.143
it's kind of an expression of people in

01:02:48.163 --> 01:02:49.565
that who live in that place.

01:02:49.844 --> 01:02:52.469
Um, so I dunno, I think it's,

01:02:54.110 --> 01:02:56.893
I don't think Banksy's identity should be

01:02:57.594 --> 01:02:59.157
like revealed obviously.

01:02:59.237 --> 01:03:00.358
Cause I think, you know,

01:03:00.398 --> 01:03:01.820
people should be able to choose whether

01:03:01.920 --> 01:03:02.161
they,

01:03:04.456 --> 01:03:05.797
share that information or not.

01:03:06.117 --> 01:03:08.418
Um, I think it just applies.

01:03:08.657 --> 01:03:09.398
It doesn't really,

01:03:09.898 --> 01:03:11.539
I think someone could definitely make the

01:03:11.659 --> 01:03:13.920
argument that because he was technically

01:03:13.960 --> 01:03:16.681
committing crimes or like not crimes,

01:03:16.760 --> 01:03:18.061
I guess maybe like a,

01:03:19.862 --> 01:03:21.001
I don't know what you would classify

01:03:21.061 --> 01:03:24.862
graffiti as like vandalism, I guess maybe,

01:03:25.103 --> 01:03:27.143
but yeah, some kind of misdemeanor,

01:03:27.204 --> 01:03:28.885
I think.

01:03:28.925 --> 01:03:29.224
Yeah.

01:03:29.264 --> 01:03:30.125
So I think, you know,

01:03:31.586 --> 01:03:34.094
It's up to the community to determine

01:03:34.134 --> 01:03:38.206
whether it's acceptable or not, I guess.

01:03:41.280 --> 01:03:42.360
I think you know there's definitely a

01:03:42.380 --> 01:03:44.400
difference between like a lot of people

01:03:44.440 --> 01:03:46.340
just do like tagging stuff or they like

01:03:46.380 --> 01:03:47.961
put their name on something that's not

01:03:47.981 --> 01:03:50.302
really art that's just like vandalism but

01:03:50.382 --> 01:03:52.463
I think if it's actually something that's

01:03:52.483 --> 01:03:54.143
trying to display a message I think it's

01:03:54.163 --> 01:03:56.264
a little bit different um like social

01:03:56.284 --> 01:03:58.164
commentary and stuff I think is definitely

01:03:58.724 --> 01:04:01.105
more acceptable but I think you know

01:04:01.485 --> 01:04:04.505
legitimate actual street art is definitely

01:04:04.545 --> 01:04:05.085
on a different

01:04:06.161 --> 01:04:06.780
different level,

01:04:06.860 --> 01:04:08.141
but I think it's definitely,

01:04:08.282 --> 01:04:10.123
I think one of these things where it's

01:04:10.163 --> 01:04:12.523
down, it's down to someone's beliefs, um,

01:04:12.664 --> 01:04:13.304
as a person,

01:04:13.324 --> 01:04:16.045
like it's not really a very clear cut

01:04:16.364 --> 01:04:16.625
thing.

01:04:16.704 --> 01:04:18.385
I don't think, um,

01:04:18.425 --> 01:04:20.067
whether it's a clear cut, obvious answer,

01:04:20.827 --> 01:04:23.007
but I think in this community, it's like,

01:04:23.047 --> 01:04:24.889
you know,

01:04:24.969 --> 01:04:26.610
I think people should be for protecting

01:04:26.769 --> 01:04:27.670
artists, privacy,

01:04:28.710 --> 01:04:30.431
protecting anyone's privacy if they don't

01:04:30.451 --> 01:04:31.911
want to have their identity revealed.

01:04:31.992 --> 01:04:32.152
But,

01:04:34.411 --> 01:04:36.114
yeah i think yeah i don't really have

01:04:36.134 --> 01:04:37.054
too much more to add do you have

01:04:37.076 --> 01:04:41.961
any thoughts no yeah um i mean yeah

01:04:42.001 --> 01:04:43.382
i was really disappointed to see that they

01:04:43.423 --> 01:04:45.045
went ahead and published his name anyways

01:04:45.065 --> 01:04:46.547
or who they believe it is um

01:04:47.431 --> 01:04:48.612
And it's,

01:04:48.753 --> 01:04:49.512
I'm with you on the one hand,

01:04:49.552 --> 01:04:50.713
because like, to me, it's like,

01:04:50.853 --> 01:04:51.914
I don't think his message is

01:04:51.954 --> 01:04:52.614
controversial.

01:04:52.675 --> 01:04:52.856
You know,

01:04:52.936 --> 01:04:54.155
I could see the argument of like, well,

01:04:54.175 --> 01:04:55.858
let's say I own a business and he

01:04:55.878 --> 01:04:57.579
graffitis the side of that business with a

01:04:57.619 --> 01:04:59.019
message that I don't agree with.

01:04:59.079 --> 01:05:00.420
Like, okay, I hear that,

01:05:00.561 --> 01:05:02.802
but he's not in my opinion.

01:05:02.942 --> 01:05:03.222
I mean,

01:05:03.842 --> 01:05:05.603
I don't see anything controversial about

01:05:05.684 --> 01:05:06.605
any of the stuff he's posted.

01:05:06.744 --> 01:05:07.686
I mean, for the record,

01:05:07.766 --> 01:05:08.985
I don't follow him super closely.

01:05:09.045 --> 01:05:09.786
So I don't know if somebody is going

01:05:09.806 --> 01:05:10.887
to go dig up and be like, oh,

01:05:10.927 --> 01:05:11.768
go look up this painting.

01:05:11.807 --> 01:05:13.869
This was like super political and somebody

01:05:13.909 --> 01:05:14.909
may not agree with that one.

01:05:17.472 --> 01:05:20.614
on the wall in Palestine was like it

01:05:20.655 --> 01:05:22.976
was like it was forced or not forced

01:05:23.016 --> 01:05:23.936
perspective but you know it was like it

01:05:23.956 --> 01:05:26.119
was a lifelike painting of like a hole

01:05:26.139 --> 01:05:27.300
in the wall and it was like this

01:05:27.340 --> 01:05:29.942
beautiful beach on the other side and you

01:05:29.961 --> 01:05:31.063
know it's art so it's open to

01:05:31.103 --> 01:05:32.603
interpretation but the way I took away

01:05:32.623 --> 01:05:33.324
from that was like

01:05:34.144 --> 01:05:36.264
this could be paradise if we could find

01:05:36.304 --> 01:05:37.106
a solution here.

01:05:37.545 --> 01:05:38.706
And he wasn't trying to say what the

01:05:38.746 --> 01:05:39.346
solution is.

01:05:39.385 --> 01:05:40.365
He was just trying to say like,

01:05:40.686 --> 01:05:41.306
be human,

01:05:41.346 --> 01:05:42.887
be kind to each other and figure out

01:05:42.907 --> 01:05:43.347
a solution.

01:05:43.387 --> 01:05:43.766
And it's like,

01:05:44.146 --> 01:05:45.527
I don't think that's a particularly

01:05:45.567 --> 01:05:48.168
controversial take personally, but yeah.

01:05:48.188 --> 01:05:50.248
So, I mean, it's, it's, I don't know.

01:05:50.527 --> 01:05:51.847
I think there's much worse crimes in the

01:05:51.867 --> 01:05:54.349
world, but yeah, it was just,

01:05:54.369 --> 01:05:54.768
I don't know.

01:05:54.849 --> 01:05:57.568
He's, he's so, yeah.

01:05:58.068 --> 01:05:59.889
I was disappointed to see the Reuters went

01:05:59.929 --> 01:06:01.550
ahead and published it, but yeah.

01:06:02.971 --> 01:06:04.351
It's interesting to think about because I

01:06:04.371 --> 01:06:06.132
think about that a lot as a quote

01:06:06.211 --> 01:06:07.853
unquote semi-public figure is like,

01:06:08.492 --> 01:06:10.313
how much transparency do I owe people

01:06:10.353 --> 01:06:12.275
versus how much privacy do I get to

01:06:12.315 --> 01:06:13.315
have as an individual?

01:06:13.394 --> 01:06:16.076
And it's, I don't know.

01:06:16.175 --> 01:06:17.137
Yeah, life is full of nuance.

01:06:17.157 --> 01:06:20.257
Definitely.

01:06:22.190 --> 01:06:23.771
All right, so in a moment,

01:06:23.911 --> 01:06:25.193
we're going to start taking viewer

01:06:25.233 --> 01:06:25.773
questions.

01:06:25.813 --> 01:06:27.795
So I know there have already been some

01:06:27.815 --> 01:06:28.315
questions,

01:06:28.375 --> 01:06:29.516
but if you guys are holding on to

01:06:29.577 --> 01:06:30.436
any more,

01:06:30.536 --> 01:06:32.478
definitely go ahead and start leaving

01:06:32.518 --> 01:06:35.342
those in the chat or in the forum

01:06:35.362 --> 01:06:35.601
thread.

01:06:36.764 --> 01:06:39.146
But for now, speaking of the forums,

01:06:39.507 --> 01:06:41.268
we're going to check in on our community

01:06:41.307 --> 01:06:43.010
forum because there's always a lot of

01:06:43.050 --> 01:06:43.530
activity.

01:06:44.371 --> 01:06:45.512
This week has been no exception,

01:06:45.532 --> 01:06:46.472
been very busy week.

01:06:46.612 --> 01:06:48.554
So here's a few of the most interesting

01:06:48.574 --> 01:06:49.396
discussions happening.

01:06:50.155 --> 01:06:51.938
And the first one we're going to talk

01:06:51.958 --> 01:06:54.340
about is there's a community discussion

01:06:54.440 --> 01:06:56.822
about Firefox's new features.

01:06:58.317 --> 01:06:59.538
So for those who don't know, Firefox,

01:06:59.577 --> 01:07:01.418
I believe it's one forty nine is coming

01:07:01.498 --> 01:07:02.478
out here pretty soon.

01:07:03.260 --> 01:07:05.601
And it's got a few pretty big changes.

01:07:06.701 --> 01:07:07.802
Some of them are very.

01:07:08.882 --> 01:07:11.463
Cosmetic welcome cosmetic, for the record,

01:07:11.483 --> 01:07:12.704
like I just found out.

01:07:13.907 --> 01:07:14.407
I feel dumb.

01:07:14.748 --> 01:07:16.389
But I just found out two or three

01:07:16.409 --> 01:07:17.650
weeks ago that in Brave,

01:07:18.050 --> 01:07:19.331
you can do split tabs.

01:07:19.471 --> 01:07:21.192
So it's kind of like tiling a window,

01:07:22.273 --> 01:07:23.512
which I just realized I should totally be

01:07:23.552 --> 01:07:24.333
doing here, but I'm not.

01:07:25.034 --> 01:07:25.893
The split tab thing, I mean.

01:07:26.454 --> 01:07:27.755
It's kind of like tiling a window,

01:07:27.896 --> 01:07:30.277
except it's the same window,

01:07:30.317 --> 01:07:31.557
and it's just the tabs are side by

01:07:31.617 --> 01:07:31.898
side.

01:07:32.898 --> 01:07:33.818
which is probably a little bit of a

01:07:33.858 --> 01:07:35.179
niche use case,

01:07:35.378 --> 01:07:36.960
but it's really cool for me.

01:07:37.059 --> 01:07:38.239
It's really nifty and I like it.

01:07:39.340 --> 01:07:40.661
Firefox is going to be adding that,

01:07:41.061 --> 01:07:42.402
but then there's also some more serious

01:07:42.422 --> 01:07:42.641
things.

01:07:42.661 --> 01:07:44.643
Like there's a sanitizer API, which...

01:07:46.195 --> 01:07:47.297
I'm forgetting off the top of my head

01:07:47.336 --> 01:07:48.038
exactly what that does.

01:07:48.117 --> 01:07:50.121
I think that's supposed to help protect

01:07:50.141 --> 01:07:51.422
against cross-scripting attacks,

01:07:51.483 --> 01:07:53.144
but don't quote me.

01:07:53.224 --> 01:07:54.487
It's definitely a security update.

01:07:55.068 --> 01:07:56.530
And noticeably, this one is new.

01:07:56.590 --> 01:07:56.931
Apparently,

01:07:56.971 --> 01:07:58.333
they've announced the sanitizer API

01:07:58.353 --> 01:07:58.693
before.

01:07:59.134 --> 01:08:01.617
But Firefox is going to include a VPN.

01:08:03.405 --> 01:08:05.027
I believe from what I've heard,

01:08:05.586 --> 01:08:07.108
they did not really say for sure in

01:08:07.148 --> 01:08:07.829
their blog post,

01:08:08.469 --> 01:08:10.530
but it will be free for up to

01:08:10.550 --> 01:08:11.371
fifty gigs a month.

01:08:12.052 --> 01:08:14.054
And to start with,

01:08:14.114 --> 01:08:15.715
it's going to roll out in France, Germany,

01:08:15.835 --> 01:08:17.077
the UK and the US.

01:08:17.837 --> 01:08:19.099
We'll see about the UK if they start

01:08:19.139 --> 01:08:20.579
requiring ID for VPNs.

01:08:20.659 --> 01:08:22.082
But that's a different discussion.

01:08:24.202 --> 01:08:24.882
And yeah,

01:08:25.002 --> 01:08:26.444
I think I've heard rumors that it's going

01:08:26.463 --> 01:08:27.185
to be in-house.

01:08:27.324 --> 01:08:28.886
I know last time they did this,

01:08:29.747 --> 01:08:31.548
it was a white label of Mulvad.

01:08:32.710 --> 01:08:34.190
And I actually stand corrected because

01:08:34.230 --> 01:08:34.891
I've always said that like,

01:08:34.971 --> 01:08:37.213
I don't see the point of the in-browser

01:08:37.253 --> 01:08:39.676
VPN because I want more than just my

01:08:39.716 --> 01:08:40.957
browser to be protected.

01:08:41.596 --> 01:08:42.417
And from what I'm told,

01:08:42.438 --> 01:08:43.599
that is not how this is going to

01:08:43.639 --> 01:08:43.838
work.

01:08:43.899 --> 01:08:45.740
It is actually going to like protect your

01:08:45.761 --> 01:08:46.242
whole device.

01:08:46.282 --> 01:08:47.042
It's just going to give you a lot

01:08:47.061 --> 01:08:48.524
more granularity in the browser.

01:08:48.984 --> 01:08:49.625
That's what I've heard.

01:08:49.784 --> 01:08:50.104
But yeah,

01:08:51.003 --> 01:08:54.025
Yeah, what do we think about this?

01:08:54.346 --> 01:08:55.868
I think I'll go ahead and say that

01:08:56.247 --> 01:08:57.748
I'm notoriously critical of Mozilla,

01:08:58.609 --> 01:09:00.690
but I'm happy to see them putting good

01:09:00.730 --> 01:09:01.652
features into Firefox.

01:09:01.671 --> 01:09:02.412
I mean,

01:09:03.734 --> 01:09:05.055
at least it's not an AI feature that

01:09:05.074 --> 01:09:06.076
nobody asked for, right?

01:09:07.636 --> 01:09:09.497
So yeah,

01:09:09.917 --> 01:09:12.420
I think this is potentially a good step

01:09:12.439 --> 01:09:12.761
forward.

01:09:12.801 --> 01:09:14.061
I will be interested to see how that

01:09:14.082 --> 01:09:17.184
VPN works potentially, but yeah.

01:09:18.967 --> 01:09:21.048
Uh, I think you did, unfortunately,

01:09:21.349 --> 01:09:22.590
unfortunately, Nate, to,

01:09:22.729 --> 01:09:24.831
to ruin your parade of anti AI.

01:09:24.850 --> 01:09:27.532
They unfortunately did include, uh,

01:09:27.551 --> 01:09:29.712
there's an update in this, in this update,

01:09:29.733 --> 01:09:31.194
they're including smart window,

01:09:31.234 --> 01:09:34.095
which was previously called AI window,

01:09:34.234 --> 01:09:36.855
which is basically.

01:09:36.876 --> 01:09:37.256
Oh yeah.

01:09:37.296 --> 01:09:37.796
That, okay.

01:09:37.817 --> 01:09:38.256
I missed that.

01:09:38.337 --> 01:09:39.597
I was just reading the summary here in

01:09:40.037 --> 01:09:40.398
the thread.

01:09:41.646 --> 01:09:41.908
Yeah.

01:09:41.927 --> 01:09:43.649
So unfortunately that is coming in this

01:09:43.751 --> 01:09:44.131
update.

01:09:44.211 --> 01:09:46.454
I think they realized calling it AI window

01:09:46.494 --> 01:09:48.057
was probably a bit too on the nose.

01:09:48.078 --> 01:09:50.881
So they've changed the name to smart

01:09:50.942 --> 01:09:52.404
window this time, I think.

01:09:53.918 --> 01:09:55.600
We did talk about this a little bit

01:09:55.659 --> 01:09:57.381
internally about this privacy,

01:09:58.220 --> 01:10:00.061
this free inbuilt VPN.

01:10:00.681 --> 01:10:03.243
I think the thing I was specifically

01:10:03.283 --> 01:10:06.224
talking about was Mozilla VPN.

01:10:06.685 --> 01:10:07.965
So this is a different thing.

01:10:08.005 --> 01:10:11.207
This is, I guess, Firefox VPN.

01:10:12.466 --> 01:10:14.269
which is different to Mozilla VPN.

01:10:14.288 --> 01:10:15.130
Mozilla VPN,

01:10:15.770 --> 01:10:17.652
one of the cool things about Mozilla VPN,

01:10:17.891 --> 01:10:19.313
like Nate kind of talked about,

01:10:19.353 --> 01:10:21.876
was it would cover your whole device and

01:10:21.895 --> 01:10:23.817
then when you use Firefox,

01:10:24.478 --> 01:10:26.399
it would integrate with the desktop client

01:10:26.619 --> 01:10:29.442
and it would allow you to select different

01:10:29.702 --> 01:10:31.623
locations for where your browser would

01:10:31.764 --> 01:10:33.225
exit based on the website.

01:10:33.886 --> 01:10:35.667
so you know obviously you wouldn't want to

01:10:36.127 --> 01:10:39.448
like access your bank's website and also

01:10:39.488 --> 01:10:42.609
be coming from like turkey because that

01:10:42.631 --> 01:10:44.490
would like cause your bank to like you

01:10:44.511 --> 01:10:47.773
know lock down they're not gonna they're

01:10:47.792 --> 01:10:51.095
not gonna like that um so that allowed

01:10:51.114 --> 01:10:53.136
you to have different end points coming

01:10:53.216 --> 01:10:54.957
out there um i think that is also

01:10:55.016 --> 01:10:56.938
very useful because you know

01:10:58.159 --> 01:11:00.121
A lot of times VPNs are blocked.

01:11:00.282 --> 01:11:01.021
Like on Reddit,

01:11:01.042 --> 01:11:03.064
you'll frequently find it's blocked.

01:11:03.283 --> 01:11:04.925
On YouTube, it'll ask you to sign in.

01:11:06.166 --> 01:11:08.368
I think that's an interesting thing with

01:11:08.467 --> 01:11:09.387
Mozilla VPN.

01:11:09.868 --> 01:11:11.489
But I think like Nate said,

01:11:11.529 --> 01:11:13.230
this is a separate thing.

01:11:13.730 --> 01:11:14.771
This isn't the same thing.

01:11:14.811 --> 01:11:15.832
It's kind of confusing.

01:11:16.012 --> 01:11:17.213
They've got two products.

01:11:17.413 --> 01:11:18.895
This is only for your browser.

01:11:20.515 --> 01:11:21.737
As far as we're aware,

01:11:21.837 --> 01:11:23.097
they haven't said that it's going to be

01:11:23.118 --> 01:11:25.539
your entire device because they say this

01:11:25.579 --> 01:11:26.341
is a proxy.

01:11:28.037 --> 01:11:29.578
So as far as we are aware,

01:11:29.639 --> 01:11:31.841
that is only going to be through the

01:11:31.860 --> 01:11:34.262
browser itself, as far as we know.

01:11:34.603 --> 01:11:36.244
So I would say that's what we should

01:11:36.305 --> 01:11:37.905
think that this is first.

01:11:38.265 --> 01:11:41.988
Um, I don't think this is, you know,

01:11:43.449 --> 01:11:44.150
an amazing.

01:11:47.158 --> 01:11:48.939
because I think we have such good free

01:11:49.140 --> 01:11:51.881
privacy, like full VPNs you can use now.

01:11:51.902 --> 01:11:53.684
Like you can use ProtonVPN free.

01:11:53.963 --> 01:11:56.586
Like they have quite good speeds.

01:11:57.127 --> 01:11:57.766
It's free.

01:11:58.967 --> 01:12:00.590
I think Proton's doing a great job by

01:12:00.649 --> 01:12:01.850
offering that for free to people.

01:12:03.279 --> 01:12:05.862
I think people should use that if they

01:12:05.921 --> 01:12:08.064
don't have another way to protect their

01:12:08.104 --> 01:12:08.583
privacy.

01:12:08.644 --> 01:12:11.326
But I think especially with the low cost

01:12:11.365 --> 01:12:12.306
of VPNs at this point,

01:12:12.327 --> 01:12:15.168
like more that is five euros a month,

01:12:15.248 --> 01:12:17.210
like that is a pretty cheap price for

01:12:18.951 --> 01:12:19.712
a lot of people.

01:12:19.792 --> 01:12:20.792
But I think, you know,

01:12:21.512 --> 01:12:25.336
price is also it's a trying time.

01:12:25.515 --> 01:12:27.277
You know, people are trying to save money.

01:12:27.497 --> 01:12:29.298
So I think, you know,

01:12:29.319 --> 01:12:31.340
fifty gigabytes of data is definitely

01:12:32.645 --> 01:12:36.988
pretty uh pretty generous i would say it's

01:12:37.087 --> 01:12:39.569
like that's gonna take you quite a long

01:12:39.609 --> 01:12:42.770
way um especially monthly i feel like i

01:12:42.810 --> 01:12:44.492
don't even use i use like only a

01:12:44.532 --> 01:12:46.533
couple of gigabytes a month on my phone

01:12:46.753 --> 01:12:49.555
so i mean if that's i mean i

01:12:49.574 --> 01:12:50.855
mean i know there's people that use like

01:12:50.895 --> 01:12:52.396
hundreds of gigabytes on their phone every

01:12:52.436 --> 01:12:53.618
month i don't know how you do that

01:12:53.698 --> 01:12:55.298
exactly but um

01:12:56.880 --> 01:12:59.301
I think fifty gigabytes is a lot maybe

01:12:59.341 --> 01:13:01.381
I'm like I think it might just be

01:13:01.402 --> 01:13:03.182
because our internet is really slow here

01:13:03.542 --> 01:13:06.064
but it's kind of hard to download that

01:13:06.104 --> 01:13:10.266
much stuff but fifty gigabytes and it's

01:13:10.447 --> 01:13:12.347
it's kind of frustrating Firefox and

01:13:12.368 --> 01:13:14.529
Mozilla in general do this all the time

01:13:14.588 --> 01:13:17.331
like they only release their products in

01:13:17.551 --> 01:13:18.752
specific regions

01:13:20.051 --> 01:13:22.292
Like in this case, they're saying the US,

01:13:22.332 --> 01:13:25.394
France, Germany, and the UK to start.

01:13:25.554 --> 01:13:27.015
That's where they're releasing this free

01:13:27.255 --> 01:13:28.296
Firefox VPN.

01:13:29.056 --> 01:13:31.837
And it's the same thing with Mozilla

01:13:31.877 --> 01:13:34.460
Monitor, which I think is defunct now,

01:13:34.979 --> 01:13:38.162
and Mozilla VPN and Mozilla Relay.

01:13:38.823 --> 01:13:40.302
It's like their email aliasing thing.

01:13:40.904 --> 01:13:42.645
It was only available in certain

01:13:42.685 --> 01:13:43.244
countries.

01:13:43.484 --> 01:13:45.426
I was always kind of like interested in

01:13:45.466 --> 01:13:45.926
trying it.

01:13:47.548 --> 01:13:50.451
never was available in australia so i

01:13:50.470 --> 01:13:53.011
think they should probably look at you

01:13:53.032 --> 01:13:55.694
know i don't really understand the reason

01:13:55.753 --> 01:13:58.036
why they're only releasing this in certain

01:13:58.076 --> 01:14:01.597
locations but um i think especially in

01:14:01.637 --> 01:14:05.119
locations where i feel like they don't

01:14:05.180 --> 01:14:07.581
need the privacy as much like what about

01:14:07.742 --> 01:14:09.382
countries that are like you know under

01:14:09.422 --> 01:14:12.003
siege by like authoritarian governments

01:14:12.064 --> 01:14:13.744
maybe we should focus on those first to

01:14:13.765 --> 01:14:16.487
get this technology to but um

01:14:18.277 --> 01:14:19.837
It's still an interesting thing.

01:14:19.917 --> 01:14:21.439
I didn't really read any of the comments.

01:14:21.679 --> 01:14:22.960
Was there anything you were thinking that

01:14:23.020 --> 01:14:24.399
people mentioned that we haven't really

01:14:24.440 --> 01:14:26.841
talked about yet?

01:14:26.942 --> 01:14:27.582
I don't think so.

01:14:27.841 --> 01:14:29.342
There was kind of a discussion right off

01:14:29.363 --> 01:14:31.885
the bat about whether they meant, um,

01:14:31.925 --> 01:14:35.546
like there was a confusion of, um,

01:14:36.720 --> 01:14:37.882
When they said to start,

01:14:37.922 --> 01:14:39.626
did they mean to start?

01:14:39.666 --> 01:14:40.466
And that might change?

01:14:40.487 --> 01:14:41.609
Or did they mean the countries might

01:14:41.649 --> 01:14:42.010
change?

01:14:42.050 --> 01:14:44.033
But I think everybody kind of agreed that

01:14:44.052 --> 01:14:45.595
it's like, no, it's probably the country.

01:14:45.675 --> 01:14:47.318
But yeah,

01:14:47.337 --> 01:14:49.140
there was a lot of discussion about is

01:14:49.201 --> 01:14:49.341
it

01:14:51.828 --> 01:14:52.588
like what I was saying,

01:14:52.668 --> 01:14:54.229
is this going to be an in-house thing

01:14:54.329 --> 01:14:57.810
or is this going to be a,

01:14:57.850 --> 01:15:01.632
like a white label of Mulvad was some

01:15:01.653 --> 01:15:03.012
people here are saying this might be like

01:15:03.073 --> 01:15:04.253
competition against opera,

01:15:04.314 --> 01:15:05.554
which I I'm with you.

01:15:05.594 --> 01:15:06.635
Like personally, I don't,

01:15:08.095 --> 01:15:10.015
I do think the proton last time I

01:15:10.055 --> 01:15:10.676
tried one of them,

01:15:10.716 --> 01:15:12.356
the proton free servers tend to be a

01:15:12.377 --> 01:15:13.037
little bit slow,

01:15:13.077 --> 01:15:14.557
but I also know since then they've kind

01:15:14.597 --> 01:15:16.198
of added a few more.

01:15:16.257 --> 01:15:17.198
So hopefully that's helped.

01:15:19.298 --> 01:15:21.000
But that said, I do think,

01:15:22.405 --> 01:15:24.287
I'm not opposed to them adding this as

01:15:24.327 --> 01:15:25.847
like a compete with opera thing,

01:15:25.887 --> 01:15:27.509
especially if they can keep the cost low

01:15:27.949 --> 01:15:28.390
for them.

01:15:28.489 --> 01:15:29.350
And this isn't going to be one of

01:15:29.371 --> 01:15:30.030
those things that,

01:15:30.833 --> 01:15:32.295
you know, in a year, they're just like,

01:15:32.534 --> 01:15:32.774
oh,

01:15:33.314 --> 01:15:34.734
we killed this off because it's really

01:15:34.815 --> 01:15:35.655
expensive.

01:15:35.815 --> 01:15:37.336
But I don't know.

01:15:37.355 --> 01:15:37.516
I mean,

01:15:37.577 --> 01:15:38.697
I know there's the whole smart window

01:15:38.737 --> 01:15:40.478
thing, which I don't know.

01:15:40.518 --> 01:15:40.698
To me,

01:15:40.738 --> 01:15:42.078
that reminds me of like Brave's Leo.

01:15:42.118 --> 01:15:45.038
Like Brave has like a little pop out

01:15:45.078 --> 01:15:46.380
mode where you can just talk to Leo

01:15:46.460 --> 01:15:49.081
directly and have a conversation with it,

01:15:49.140 --> 01:15:50.621
have a conversation in the sense of like,

01:15:50.640 --> 01:15:53.402
I'm not asking it to paraphrase this page

01:15:53.442 --> 01:15:53.962
or whatever.

01:15:55.643 --> 01:15:57.884
But they also have like a little sidebar

01:15:57.923 --> 01:15:59.465
where you can ask questions about the page

01:15:59.484 --> 01:15:59.904
you're on.

01:16:00.685 --> 01:16:02.365
And they say that this will be completely

01:16:02.445 --> 01:16:02.787
optional.

01:16:02.947 --> 01:16:04.967
So I don't know, to me,

01:16:04.988 --> 01:16:06.588
that's just competing with brave, which,

01:16:08.409 --> 01:16:09.990
again, I don't know, it's just,

01:16:10.310 --> 01:16:12.731
it's good to see the mostly focusing on

01:16:12.752 --> 01:16:13.533
the browser again,

01:16:13.552 --> 01:16:17.515
and not buying like ad companies or fake

01:16:17.555 --> 01:16:20.817
review plugins or Yeah,

01:16:20.856 --> 01:16:21.016
so

01:16:22.777 --> 01:16:23.016
Yeah,

01:16:23.096 --> 01:16:24.617
I think one interesting thing you said,

01:16:24.778 --> 01:16:25.618
oh, this is like,

01:16:25.898 --> 01:16:27.398
I feel like Brave also has like a

01:16:27.457 --> 01:16:29.779
VPN built in Vivaldi.

01:16:30.618 --> 01:16:31.139
Oh, they do.

01:16:31.198 --> 01:16:31.838
I forgot about that.

01:16:31.878 --> 01:16:33.500
So I think it's more of a,

01:16:33.520 --> 01:16:35.579
I think they're going more to try and

01:16:35.619 --> 01:16:37.841
challenge Vivaldi here and Opera.

01:16:38.280 --> 01:16:40.761
But Brave also has, it's a paid thing,

01:16:40.942 --> 01:16:42.702
but it's still technically built in,

01:16:42.782 --> 01:16:43.122
I guess.

01:16:44.042 --> 01:16:45.462
I guess they're just trying to be like

01:16:45.542 --> 01:16:46.262
feature compliant.

01:16:49.367 --> 01:16:52.483
competing against, you know, this stuff.

01:16:54.511 --> 01:16:56.551
so yeah i don't know uh i think

01:16:57.692 --> 01:17:01.372
it's also one other thing that uh firefox

01:17:01.393 --> 01:17:03.113
has actually rolled out in like the latest

01:17:03.153 --> 01:17:06.213
release they do have the ai block switch

01:17:06.293 --> 01:17:09.554
now so like if you've got that enabled

01:17:10.135 --> 01:17:11.154
you're not going to get any of this

01:17:11.274 --> 01:17:13.555
ai stuff so i wouldn't worry about that

01:17:14.055 --> 01:17:15.496
i would make sure you have that ticked

01:17:15.775 --> 01:17:17.555
if you use firefox because you don't want

01:17:17.576 --> 01:17:20.436
to get this in the next update um

01:17:23.095 --> 01:17:24.936
So yeah, I don't know, this is,

01:17:26.176 --> 01:17:27.878
it's good to see Firefox actually doing

01:17:27.958 --> 01:17:28.719
something this time.

01:17:28.760 --> 01:17:30.060
Like I feel like we were sitting at

01:17:30.081 --> 01:17:32.442
like no changes being made every year.

01:17:32.481 --> 01:17:34.724
There was like absolutely barely any

01:17:34.764 --> 01:17:37.046
changes to Firefox for like, I feel like,

01:17:37.065 --> 01:17:38.046
like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

01:17:38.067 --> 01:17:39.268
like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

01:17:39.287 --> 01:17:40.269
like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

01:17:40.368 --> 01:17:41.770
like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

01:17:41.789 --> 01:17:42.770
like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

01:17:42.789 --> 01:17:43.990
like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

01:17:44.011 --> 01:17:45.872
like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

01:17:45.912 --> 01:17:46.974
like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

01:17:46.993 --> 01:17:48.734
like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

01:17:48.795 --> 01:17:49.576
like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

01:17:49.595 --> 01:17:50.636
like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

01:17:50.657 --> 01:17:51.697
like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

01:17:51.756 --> 01:17:52.278
like

01:17:53.639 --> 01:17:56.121
I don't think it's going in the direction

01:17:56.161 --> 01:17:56.721
I would like.

01:17:57.943 --> 01:17:59.344
I don't think many people agree that it's

01:17:59.384 --> 01:18:00.585
going in the direction they want.

01:18:02.426 --> 01:18:04.747
And I guess with all this AI stuff,

01:18:04.889 --> 01:18:16.018
I think it's pretty tricky to avoid at

01:18:16.057 --> 01:18:16.497
this point.

01:18:16.677 --> 01:18:18.420
Every company is basically rolling this

01:18:18.439 --> 01:18:18.920
stuff out.

01:18:20.939 --> 01:18:23.001
At least Firefox is making it easy to

01:18:23.560 --> 01:18:25.743
opt out, but I just,

01:18:25.842 --> 01:18:27.484
it kind of frustrates me that all the,

01:18:27.743 --> 01:18:29.626
all the donation money and all this money

01:18:29.645 --> 01:18:31.707
from Google to be the main search engine

01:18:31.747 --> 01:18:33.849
is just being dumped into like AI and

01:18:33.889 --> 01:18:35.911
like privacy preserving analytics.

01:18:37.110 --> 01:18:39.172
Um, it's not really stuff that is gonna,

01:18:39.854 --> 01:18:41.234
I don't think it's gonna bring people into

01:18:41.274 --> 01:18:41.795
the browser,

01:18:42.435 --> 01:18:44.676
but I think if they actually made some

01:18:44.777 --> 01:18:47.960
big changes and listen to what community

01:18:48.180 --> 01:18:50.001
people actually wanted from the browser,

01:18:50.060 --> 01:18:50.681
I think they could.

01:18:52.113 --> 01:18:52.273
you know,

01:18:52.292 --> 01:18:54.054
there's plenty of projects that are doing

01:18:54.134 --> 01:18:54.954
interesting things.

01:18:54.975 --> 01:18:56.395
Like I think one of the most interesting

01:18:56.515 --> 01:18:58.475
ones was arc browser.

01:18:58.676 --> 01:18:59.917
Like they were doing quite a lot of

01:19:00.037 --> 01:19:01.497
interesting, you know,

01:19:01.757 --> 01:19:03.738
different things that no other browser was

01:19:03.798 --> 01:19:04.059
doing.

01:19:04.139 --> 01:19:04.319
Like,

01:19:04.460 --> 01:19:06.801
I think it'd be interesting to see Mozilla

01:19:06.820 --> 01:19:09.101
just actually try something new,

01:19:09.362 --> 01:19:11.342
like not just like copy what other people

01:19:11.363 --> 01:19:11.703
are doing,

01:19:11.764 --> 01:19:14.345
like actually try and make something, uh,

01:19:16.766 --> 01:19:18.346
little bit revolutionary a little bit

01:19:18.426 --> 01:19:20.507
different um to actually give people a

01:19:20.528 --> 01:19:22.028
reason to use it because right now it's

01:19:22.047 --> 01:19:26.408
like firefox just kind of is bad

01:19:26.849 --> 01:19:28.729
especially on some websites like you're

01:19:28.750 --> 01:19:30.909
just gonna be have a worse experience like

01:19:30.970 --> 01:19:34.871
people don't test for firefox now um like

01:19:34.951 --> 01:19:36.730
even this website we're using streamyard

01:19:36.770 --> 01:19:38.351
to do this right now i can't use

01:19:38.391 --> 01:19:38.912
firefox

01:19:39.877 --> 01:19:40.497
to do this.

01:19:41.658 --> 01:19:43.801
So, you know, it's,

01:19:44.661 --> 01:19:47.222
if you can't do basic stuff with your

01:19:47.243 --> 01:19:47.722
browser,

01:19:47.882 --> 01:19:49.304
I think that's going to push people away

01:19:49.323 --> 01:19:51.064
from doing, from using it as well.

01:19:52.565 --> 01:19:53.606
But yeah,

01:19:53.667 --> 01:19:56.408
I think that's kind of my thoughts on

01:19:56.429 --> 01:19:56.729
this.

01:19:57.890 --> 01:19:59.890
Somewhat positive, I guess, but yeah.

01:20:01.979 --> 01:20:02.640
Yeah, I agree.

01:20:02.680 --> 01:20:03.619
I mean, for me,

01:20:03.939 --> 01:20:05.780
it's unfortunate that Mozilla is

01:20:05.820 --> 01:20:07.860
constantly playing catch-up to everyone

01:20:07.940 --> 01:20:08.161
else.

01:20:08.240 --> 01:20:09.962
Like, again, the split view.

01:20:10.122 --> 01:20:10.981
Brave has that.

01:20:11.042 --> 01:20:12.002
I don't know how long they've had it,

01:20:12.021 --> 01:20:12.742
because I just discovered it,

01:20:12.782 --> 01:20:13.641
but Brave has that.

01:20:14.082 --> 01:20:15.643
And even their AI stuff, it's like...

01:20:16.703 --> 01:20:20.384
Like, everyone else... The AI ship...

01:20:20.463 --> 01:20:21.503
I mean, I feel comfortable saying this,

01:20:21.524 --> 01:20:22.783
because this isn't like a, you know,

01:20:22.963 --> 01:20:25.085
hustle podcast or whatever, but, like,

01:20:25.585 --> 01:20:26.385
I feel like at this point,

01:20:26.404 --> 01:20:28.345
if you're just now jumping on the AI

01:20:28.365 --> 01:20:29.265
bandwagon, it's gone.

01:20:29.626 --> 01:20:29.845
Like...

01:20:30.822 --> 01:20:31.162
It's gone.

01:20:31.322 --> 01:20:31.922
Why are you there?

01:20:32.563 --> 01:20:35.243
And so it's, you know, it's like,

01:20:35.323 --> 01:20:36.104
I don't understand why they're,

01:20:36.284 --> 01:20:37.505
and they're doing it in such a poor

01:20:37.545 --> 01:20:38.046
way too.

01:20:38.086 --> 01:20:39.605
Like I remember being really disappointed

01:20:39.645 --> 01:20:41.287
when I looked into their AI features,

01:20:42.127 --> 01:20:42.988
not because I wanted to use them,

01:20:43.007 --> 01:20:44.029
but just because I wanted to understand

01:20:44.048 --> 01:20:45.509
them and they don't even do anything.

01:20:45.569 --> 01:20:46.149
It's like, oh,

01:20:46.409 --> 01:20:47.710
here's a tab where you can talk with

01:20:47.730 --> 01:20:48.470
chat GPT.

01:20:49.390 --> 01:20:50.431
Your privacy policy,

01:20:50.532 --> 01:20:52.412
like their privacy policy is literally

01:20:52.432 --> 01:20:54.213
like go see open AI's privacy policy.

01:20:54.253 --> 01:20:54.573
And it's like,

01:20:54.873 --> 01:20:56.015
so what's the difference with this?

01:20:56.896 --> 01:20:59.399
and just going to chatgpt.com.

01:21:01.659 --> 01:21:02.340
What use is this?

01:21:02.359 --> 01:21:02.881
And it's like, oh, well,

01:21:02.900 --> 01:21:03.740
it's integrated in there.

01:21:04.082 --> 01:21:05.101
I don't care about that.

01:21:05.402 --> 01:21:06.243
If I cared about that,

01:21:06.323 --> 01:21:07.944
I'd be using ChatGPT's browser.

01:21:08.724 --> 01:21:10.085
I don't understand why it needs to...

01:21:11.599 --> 01:21:12.000
to do that.

01:21:12.119 --> 01:21:12.680
I don't know.

01:21:12.720 --> 01:21:12.980
It's just,

01:21:13.041 --> 01:21:14.542
it's weird to me that like they're

01:21:14.582 --> 01:21:16.863
constantly playing catch up and yeah,

01:21:16.904 --> 01:21:18.086
it would be nice to see them because

01:21:18.105 --> 01:21:19.127
they have such a passionate,

01:21:19.207 --> 01:21:19.907
active community.

01:21:19.988 --> 01:21:20.787
I know they do.

01:21:21.248 --> 01:21:23.150
And I'm sure people have plenty of ideas

01:21:23.171 --> 01:21:25.953
about how they can improve it, but it's,

01:21:26.113 --> 01:21:28.395
it's, it's, yeah,

01:21:29.096 --> 01:21:30.337
it is nice to see them investing in

01:21:30.377 --> 01:21:31.958
something that isn't AI for,

01:21:32.020 --> 01:21:33.220
even if they have the little smart window

01:21:33.240 --> 01:21:34.042
thing, but yeah,

01:21:34.822 --> 01:21:36.184
The split view, the tab notes,

01:21:36.203 --> 01:21:37.045
which I don't know how that's going to

01:21:37.064 --> 01:21:41.170
help, but the sanitizer API, the VPN.

01:21:41.250 --> 01:21:42.490
I agree with you.

01:21:42.530 --> 01:21:43.252
It's not enough,

01:21:43.311 --> 01:21:45.595
but it's nice to see them starting to

01:21:45.635 --> 01:21:46.375
get back into it.

01:21:46.395 --> 01:21:46.916
And hopefully,

01:21:47.055 --> 01:21:49.219
I'm hoping the momentum will pick up for

01:21:49.238 --> 01:21:49.378
sure.

01:21:51.177 --> 01:21:52.899
Yeah, I think we had a question here.

01:21:52.939 --> 01:21:53.939
We have, well, not a question.

01:21:53.979 --> 01:21:55.819
I guess someone was just saying, uh,

01:21:55.840 --> 01:21:57.900
without manifest V two extensions,

01:21:58.041 --> 01:22:00.842
I find the internet to be pretty bad.

01:22:01.363 --> 01:22:02.724
Um, I agree.

01:22:02.923 --> 01:22:04.845
I think, you know, you block origin,

01:22:04.984 --> 01:22:08.386
I think is kind of a needed tool

01:22:08.426 --> 01:22:09.006
at this point.

01:22:09.266 --> 01:22:09.627
Uh,

01:22:09.686 --> 01:22:14.929
you block origin light is it doesn't work

01:22:15.128 --> 01:22:17.631
as well and it doesn't block a lot

01:22:17.650 --> 01:22:19.390
of things that you need, right?

01:22:19.431 --> 01:22:20.332
Like, you know,

01:22:22.011 --> 01:22:26.292
you would hope that, uh, you know,

01:22:26.332 --> 01:22:28.774
websites don't have a million pop-ups and

01:22:28.835 --> 01:22:31.416
like cookie banners and paywalls and all

01:22:31.435 --> 01:22:32.037
this sort of stuff.

01:22:32.056 --> 01:22:33.296
But it's kind of the modern internet at

01:22:33.317 --> 01:22:33.837
this point.

01:22:34.097 --> 01:22:35.257
Um, you need to, you need to,

01:22:35.318 --> 01:22:36.639
you need to use an ad blocker unless

01:22:36.658 --> 01:22:39.680
you want to go completely, you know,

01:22:39.701 --> 01:22:40.720
off the rails, I think.

01:22:41.502 --> 01:22:41.862
So if,

01:22:42.101 --> 01:22:44.582
if Mozilla is like the last bastion of

01:22:44.743 --> 01:22:46.904
MV two extensions, then, uh,

01:22:47.425 --> 01:22:48.905
I think that is definitely a thing that

01:22:48.966 --> 01:22:50.707
separates them from Chrome, but,

01:22:52.287 --> 01:22:52.466
You know,

01:22:52.506 --> 01:22:53.908
that's not going to be enough to keep

01:22:54.029 --> 01:22:56.252
people there because plenty of people are

01:22:56.292 --> 01:22:58.135
still using Chrome and they're still using

01:22:58.175 --> 01:22:59.417
you block origin lights.

01:22:59.737 --> 01:23:01.800
Um, it's good enough for them.

01:23:02.440 --> 01:23:03.301
It's not perfect,

01:23:03.341 --> 01:23:05.164
but it's definitely good enough.

01:23:05.484 --> 01:23:05.966
Um, so.

01:23:07.829 --> 01:23:09.109
people kept saying that we're going to

01:23:09.229 --> 01:23:09.850
leave Chrome.

01:23:09.890 --> 01:23:11.911
If, if Chrome doesn't, uh,

01:23:12.051 --> 01:23:13.791
if Chrome doesn't use, um,

01:23:14.371 --> 01:23:15.270
doesn't allow MV two,

01:23:15.310 --> 01:23:16.251
I'm going to leave Chrome.

01:23:16.331 --> 01:23:17.811
And then everyone just stayed on Chrome.

01:23:17.851 --> 01:23:19.712
Like, like,

01:23:19.752 --> 01:23:25.073
I think people might not realize that a

01:23:25.113 --> 01:23:27.613
lot of people don't actually use

01:23:27.632 --> 01:23:28.293
extensions.

01:23:28.333 --> 01:23:29.493
They don't even know what they are.

01:23:29.734 --> 01:23:32.814
They just use their web browser like

01:23:32.894 --> 01:23:33.293
normally.

01:23:33.634 --> 01:23:35.975
Um, so yeah, I dunno.

01:23:36.435 --> 01:23:36.534
Um,

01:23:38.074 --> 01:23:39.756
It's, yeah,

01:23:39.775 --> 01:23:41.938
I don't think Firefox is in a very

01:23:41.978 --> 01:23:43.719
good position at the moment,

01:23:44.060 --> 01:23:44.699
unfortunately.

01:23:46.360 --> 01:23:47.042
I do got to point out,

01:23:47.341 --> 01:23:48.722
I disagree that most people don't use

01:23:48.762 --> 01:23:50.283
extensions because I feel like every time

01:23:50.323 --> 01:23:51.505
I look at somebody's Chrome browser,

01:23:51.545 --> 01:23:53.966
they've got like ten extensions and it's

01:23:54.006 --> 01:23:55.847
always like grammarly.

01:23:55.948 --> 01:23:57.248
And then like what's funny is it's always

01:23:57.269 --> 01:23:58.590
like six different ad blockers.

01:23:58.609 --> 01:24:00.412
It's always like ad block plus,

01:24:00.471 --> 01:24:02.913
plus ghostery, plus privacy badger.

01:24:03.654 --> 01:24:04.074
It's more...

01:24:05.225 --> 01:24:06.364
I almost get the impression that like

01:24:06.385 --> 01:24:08.605
people don't understand extensions and

01:24:08.626 --> 01:24:09.827
they don't understand which ones,

01:24:09.926 --> 01:24:11.726
like what they do and how they work.

01:24:11.827 --> 01:24:13.587
And they're just like, Oh, you know,

01:24:13.627 --> 01:24:14.528
the more I throw on there,

01:24:14.569 --> 01:24:15.328
the better it gets.

01:24:15.408 --> 01:24:15.628
Right.

01:24:15.668 --> 01:24:16.168
And it's like, no,

01:24:16.208 --> 01:24:18.350
you need to be intentional with which ones

01:24:18.390 --> 01:24:19.869
you use because you're giving them a lot

01:24:19.909 --> 01:24:20.970
of permission, but yeah.

01:24:21.740 --> 01:24:21.980
Yeah.

01:24:22.060 --> 01:24:22.201
Which,

01:24:22.320 --> 01:24:23.561
which just kind of goes back to what

01:24:23.582 --> 01:24:24.262
you're saying though, is like,

01:24:24.283 --> 01:24:25.923
people don't understand like manifest V

01:24:25.944 --> 01:24:28.585
two versus V three and they don't really

01:24:28.744 --> 01:24:30.846
like, they don't understand like, okay,

01:24:30.886 --> 01:24:32.547
now I've got ad block plus or whichever

01:24:32.688 --> 01:24:32.807
one,

01:24:32.927 --> 01:24:35.248
but it doesn't work as well as it

01:24:35.368 --> 01:24:38.131
used to because Google has hindered it and

01:24:38.251 --> 01:24:39.471
they don't understand why.

01:24:39.752 --> 01:24:41.353
And which is still unfortunate, but yeah.

01:24:43.463 --> 01:24:44.604
So, I mean, if we,

01:24:44.804 --> 01:24:46.545
if we like take into account the amount

01:24:46.564 --> 01:24:50.246
of people that use, uh, Chrome, right.

01:24:50.905 --> 01:24:51.886
And we look at like, you know,

01:24:52.265 --> 01:24:54.287
ad block plus or you block origin.

01:24:55.226 --> 01:24:56.046
Um,

01:24:56.067 --> 01:24:57.987
there's not that many people using them.

01:24:58.108 --> 01:24:59.887
If you, if you consider the actual,

01:24:59.927 --> 01:25:02.087
like amount of people using Google Chrome.

01:25:02.668 --> 01:25:02.908
Um, sure.

01:25:02.969 --> 01:25:03.588
The percentage.

01:25:03.628 --> 01:25:03.748
Yeah.

01:25:04.548 --> 01:25:05.810
uBlock Origin Lite is like,

01:25:06.050 --> 01:25:06.831
sixteen million.

01:25:07.511 --> 01:25:08.391
That's pretty small,

01:25:08.492 --> 01:25:09.792
like if you compare it to the amount

01:25:09.813 --> 01:25:10.154
of people.

01:25:10.274 --> 01:25:10.493
I mean,

01:25:10.934 --> 01:25:12.395
it could be like a sample thing,

01:25:12.435 --> 01:25:15.837
like I've personally seen people that use

01:25:15.877 --> 01:25:17.378
Chrome and they didn't have any

01:25:17.420 --> 01:25:18.140
extensions,

01:25:19.280 --> 01:25:20.582
and I've also seen people with a bunch

01:25:20.622 --> 01:25:20.862
of them,

01:25:20.962 --> 01:25:21.122
so

01:25:21.903 --> 01:25:24.184
It's kind of hard to determine what this

01:25:24.363 --> 01:25:26.364
is through like anecdotal things.

01:25:26.405 --> 01:25:27.485
But I think if we look at the

01:25:27.586 --> 01:25:29.947
numbers, we can get some idea,

01:25:29.987 --> 01:25:32.908
at least at least like these ad blocking

01:25:33.029 --> 01:25:33.248
ones.

01:25:33.269 --> 01:25:33.869
I mean,

01:25:33.909 --> 01:25:36.110
we could look at like other extensions

01:25:36.131 --> 01:25:37.712
that people are using and installing,

01:25:37.771 --> 01:25:39.453
probably, you know,

01:25:39.493 --> 01:25:40.733
some really weird stuff.

01:25:42.694 --> 01:25:46.256
But it doesn't seem like it's super

01:25:46.296 --> 01:25:46.636
common.

01:25:48.956 --> 01:25:51.658
But that's just going off the numbers,

01:25:51.757 --> 01:25:52.137
I guess.

01:25:52.217 --> 01:25:55.079
It's not really... No,

01:25:55.100 --> 01:25:56.220
to back up what you're saying,

01:25:56.381 --> 01:25:58.262
one source says that Chrome has almost

01:25:58.363 --> 01:25:59.583
four billion users,

01:25:59.623 --> 01:26:01.104
three point nine eight billion users

01:26:01.145 --> 01:26:03.305
worldwide based on an estimate.

01:26:04.506 --> 01:26:04.867
So, yeah,

01:26:04.927 --> 01:26:07.668
like sixteen million people is not much.

01:26:08.289 --> 01:26:09.310
I don't know what the math is on

01:26:09.350 --> 01:26:09.570
that one.

01:26:09.591 --> 01:26:10.310
I'm not even going to try,

01:26:10.390 --> 01:26:12.052
but it's not much.

01:26:12.832 --> 01:26:14.094
Yeah, I mean,

01:26:14.333 --> 01:26:16.716
it's probably not the greatest way to

01:26:16.775 --> 01:26:17.577
determine it, right?

01:26:18.752 --> 01:26:19.072
People,

01:26:19.993 --> 01:26:22.354
it could be multiple installs by one

01:26:22.414 --> 01:26:22.795
person.

01:26:22.835 --> 01:26:25.115
It could be counted by like, you know,

01:26:25.176 --> 01:26:27.318
you've installed uBlock Origin a couple of

01:26:27.358 --> 01:26:28.958
times on a couple of your devices.

01:26:28.998 --> 01:26:30.659
It could be even less than sixteen million

01:26:30.699 --> 01:26:31.740
people, unfortunately.

01:26:32.681 --> 01:26:34.703
It doesn't exactly paint a very good

01:26:34.762 --> 01:26:37.425
picture because, yeah,

01:26:37.444 --> 01:26:38.805
it sounds like most people don't care.

01:26:39.206 --> 01:26:41.828
MV two to MV three gives people more

01:26:42.448 --> 01:26:43.948
security protections, I guess.

01:26:45.149 --> 01:26:46.150
But it does.

01:26:48.368 --> 01:26:49.469
It's kind of an issue comes at a

01:26:49.488 --> 01:26:51.131
cost, comes at a cost.

01:26:51.171 --> 01:26:51.891
Yeah, exactly.

01:26:52.693 --> 01:26:53.514
Um, okay.

01:26:53.594 --> 01:26:55.296
So yeah,

01:26:55.336 --> 01:26:57.177
we could move on to the next, uh,

01:26:57.238 --> 01:26:58.118
forum thread here.

01:26:58.399 --> 01:26:58.498
Um,

01:26:58.720 --> 01:27:00.360
cause we have talked about Firefox and

01:27:00.381 --> 01:27:01.242
Mozilla quite a bit.

01:27:01.603 --> 01:27:03.524
I feel like it's an easy topic to

01:27:03.564 --> 01:27:05.106
just kind of talk about for a long

01:27:05.146 --> 01:27:06.988
time because there's just so many issues

01:27:07.288 --> 01:27:07.609
for sure.

01:27:07.710 --> 01:27:09.131
Um, but this next one was.

01:27:10.112 --> 01:27:11.993
Someone started a thread.

01:27:12.094 --> 01:27:13.635
It was actually a very recent thread,

01:27:13.715 --> 01:27:14.916
only sixteen hours ago.

01:27:15.636 --> 01:27:18.018
So favorite underrated hobby for staying

01:27:18.057 --> 01:27:20.078
productive.

01:27:20.099 --> 01:27:22.341
I'm looking for hobbies that aren't just

01:27:22.360 --> 01:27:22.701
fun,

01:27:22.780 --> 01:27:25.042
but also help clear your mind or improve

01:27:25.082 --> 01:27:26.404
skills in subtle ways.

01:27:27.202 --> 01:27:30.264
Anything offbeat that people swear by?

01:27:31.085 --> 01:27:33.947
I feel like this is definitely an off

01:27:33.987 --> 01:27:36.148
topic section of the forum.

01:27:36.228 --> 01:27:37.729
I think this could be interesting to read

01:27:38.229 --> 01:27:39.670
some of these things here.

01:27:39.770 --> 01:27:41.350
I feel like Nate added this.

01:27:41.452 --> 01:27:43.292
So I feel like you have something you

01:27:43.313 --> 01:27:44.132
want to say about this.

01:27:44.514 --> 01:27:46.614
Do you?

01:27:46.654 --> 01:27:47.836
Yeah, I do.

01:27:50.717 --> 01:27:52.298
I wanted to add this one because

01:27:54.087 --> 01:27:54.788
I don't know about you guys.

01:27:54.868 --> 01:27:57.292
Okay, so a quick tangent off topic.

01:27:58.912 --> 01:28:00.414
When I used to work with Henry in

01:28:00.454 --> 01:28:01.235
Surveillance Report,

01:28:01.595 --> 01:28:02.917
he was very open about the fact that

01:28:02.938 --> 01:28:04.719
he's like, I do privacy all day.

01:28:05.279 --> 01:28:06.360
So when I'm not working,

01:28:06.541 --> 01:28:08.703
I don't really listen to privacy podcasts

01:28:08.724 --> 01:28:09.744
or read privacy books.

01:28:09.925 --> 01:28:11.907
I need to detox from it.

01:28:12.587 --> 01:28:14.529
And now that I am also doing privacy

01:28:14.569 --> 01:28:15.911
full time, I...

01:28:17.442 --> 01:28:18.782
I haven't gone quite to that extent,

01:28:18.801 --> 01:28:19.722
but I get where he's coming.

01:28:19.783 --> 01:28:20.703
I mean, I understood it before,

01:28:20.743 --> 01:28:21.422
but now I'm living it.

01:28:21.962 --> 01:28:22.743
And, um, so I,

01:28:22.804 --> 01:28:24.404
I think it's just really important to,

01:28:25.404 --> 01:28:26.345
I don't want to say touch grass.

01:28:26.364 --> 01:28:28.524
Cause that's a very like disparaging term,

01:28:28.925 --> 01:28:30.046
but it's, it's just really important.

01:28:30.086 --> 01:28:31.206
I think for all of us to like

01:28:31.605 --> 01:28:32.786
take a breather, especially privacy,

01:28:32.826 --> 01:28:34.527
like it can be so depressing sometimes.

01:28:34.587 --> 01:28:36.546
Cause unfortunately I feel like we do take

01:28:36.587 --> 01:28:38.547
more, more losses than wins.

01:28:38.568 --> 01:28:39.387
A lot of the time, you know,

01:28:39.427 --> 01:28:42.208
we don't, um, we don't get to, uh,

01:28:44.177 --> 01:28:45.099
I wouldn't say we don't get to.

01:28:45.399 --> 01:28:47.560
We see a lot more bad news regularly

01:28:47.640 --> 01:28:49.881
about Instagram rolling back and encrypted

01:28:49.900 --> 01:28:52.363
DMs and Android trying to crack down on

01:28:52.382 --> 01:28:53.823
third-party installations and this, that,

01:28:53.844 --> 01:28:54.304
and the other.

01:28:54.783 --> 01:28:55.805
And so it's very...

01:28:57.494 --> 01:28:59.636
it can be a little depressing sometimes

01:28:59.676 --> 01:29:01.658
because we only get the good news like

01:29:01.998 --> 01:29:03.060
chat control was defeated.

01:29:03.100 --> 01:29:04.520
We only get that stuff every so often.

01:29:04.600 --> 01:29:06.783
So I really like this idea of what

01:29:06.802 --> 01:29:09.685
are your hobbies just in general?

01:29:10.426 --> 01:29:12.167
I like these people talking about things

01:29:12.186 --> 01:29:12.546
they do.

01:29:12.606 --> 01:29:13.787
One person here said they read,

01:29:14.649 --> 01:29:15.329
which is pretty...

01:29:17.150 --> 01:29:19.011
not really offbeat but you know reading is

01:29:19.152 --> 01:29:20.353
is a really good thing and they said

01:29:20.412 --> 01:29:21.592
like they read a lot of fiction too

01:29:21.632 --> 01:29:23.173
like it's not all tech and privacy stuff

01:29:23.194 --> 01:29:25.475
they read a lot of non-fiction fiction um

01:29:25.734 --> 01:29:27.395
one person did mention self-hosting which

01:29:27.416 --> 01:29:28.336
is a good way to learn more about

01:29:28.395 --> 01:29:31.358
tech and privacy uh to your comment one

01:29:31.398 --> 01:29:32.658
person did say i didn't realize we had

01:29:32.677 --> 01:29:34.158
an off-topic section of the forum where

01:29:34.179 --> 01:29:35.060
we're allowed to talk about things

01:29:35.199 --> 01:29:38.001
unrelated um so yeah definitely we do have

01:29:38.041 --> 01:29:39.442
that and then um

01:29:40.497 --> 01:29:41.760
Somebody said they do chess.

01:29:43.702 --> 01:29:44.682
One of my favorites, they said,

01:29:45.384 --> 01:29:46.905
not sure it would qualify as offbeat,

01:29:46.926 --> 01:29:48.807
but I enjoy dribbling watercolors on

01:29:48.868 --> 01:29:49.769
potato slices,

01:29:50.109 --> 01:29:51.511
letting them dry out and then taking

01:29:51.551 --> 01:29:52.192
photos of them.

01:29:52.231 --> 01:29:53.474
You blow up the images and they kind

01:29:53.493 --> 01:29:55.735
of resemble an aged artsy fartsy painting.

01:29:56.777 --> 01:29:57.957
one day I'll print and put these up

01:29:57.997 --> 01:29:58.538
for sale.

01:29:59.179 --> 01:30:00.460
And somebody replied, they're like,

01:30:00.699 --> 01:30:01.440
I'm going to go on a limb and

01:30:01.461 --> 01:30:02.981
say it qualifies as offbeat.

01:30:03.582 --> 01:30:04.582
But, you know, it's a...

01:30:04.622 --> 01:30:05.403
And for the record,

01:30:05.462 --> 01:30:06.503
I thought that one was super cool.

01:30:06.564 --> 01:30:07.324
I want to see those too.

01:30:07.385 --> 01:30:08.024
Those sound awesome.

01:30:08.626 --> 01:30:10.707
But yeah, it's just, I guess,

01:30:10.726 --> 01:30:12.047
kind of a reminder for all of us

01:30:12.087 --> 01:30:15.229
to find something enjoyable that helps you

01:30:15.310 --> 01:30:17.992
unwind because this stuff can be a lot

01:30:18.112 --> 01:30:20.213
sometimes for all of us.

01:30:20.253 --> 01:30:21.274
I don't think you have to work in

01:30:21.293 --> 01:30:21.954
it full time,

01:30:22.095 --> 01:30:24.055
but it is really good to remember that

01:30:24.076 --> 01:30:24.317
there's...

01:30:25.751 --> 01:30:27.471
Privacy should be a means to an end,

01:30:27.872 --> 01:30:28.631
in my opinion.

01:30:28.671 --> 01:30:30.893
Privacy should be what enables you to take

01:30:30.932 --> 01:30:32.974
control of your online life and your data

01:30:33.154 --> 01:30:35.194
and build the life that you want.

01:30:35.514 --> 01:30:38.375
And that includes going out and doing

01:30:38.414 --> 01:30:39.275
other stuff sometimes.

01:30:39.456 --> 01:30:41.516
So, yeah.

01:30:42.056 --> 01:30:44.257
I don't know if I have any underrated

01:30:44.377 --> 01:30:45.398
or productive...

01:30:46.085 --> 01:30:46.426
Also that,

01:30:46.485 --> 01:30:47.365
I just want to throw that out there.

01:30:47.386 --> 01:30:47.667
Personally,

01:30:47.747 --> 01:30:49.087
I'm a really big fan of like being

01:30:49.108 --> 01:30:50.609
productive and self-improvement and stuff

01:30:50.649 --> 01:30:51.010
like that.

01:30:51.029 --> 01:30:52.671
So obviously not everything has to be,

01:30:52.711 --> 01:30:53.712
like when I'm playing video games,

01:30:53.731 --> 01:30:55.173
that's not always productive, right?

01:30:55.234 --> 01:30:57.475
But it's fun and it relaxes you.

01:30:57.515 --> 01:31:00.819
So, yeah.

01:31:01.059 --> 01:31:02.581
Yeah, I think it's good to remember,

01:31:02.841 --> 01:31:03.121
you know,

01:31:03.201 --> 01:31:04.221
not everything you do

01:31:05.338 --> 01:31:07.439
has to be productive i think being

01:31:07.640 --> 01:31:10.042
unproductive a little bit you know and

01:31:10.082 --> 01:31:11.962
doing things that aren't actually you're

01:31:11.983 --> 01:31:14.225
not going anywhere like you're just doing

01:31:14.265 --> 01:31:15.604
something for the sake of it it's like

01:31:15.645 --> 01:31:17.006
kind of the point of being human right

01:31:17.025 --> 01:31:20.528
like we're not here just to produce and

01:31:20.729 --> 01:31:23.310
and make things and uh and make money

01:31:23.329 --> 01:31:25.331
and work you know i think people need

01:31:25.371 --> 01:31:28.512
to also take time and be and do

01:31:28.552 --> 01:31:30.675
things like you know nature like gaming

01:31:30.755 --> 01:31:32.576
and all these other hobbies that people

01:31:32.615 --> 01:31:33.976
have put here um

01:31:35.693 --> 01:31:37.215
But I think, you know,

01:31:37.635 --> 01:31:40.676
taking time to be unproductive can help

01:31:40.716 --> 01:31:42.418
you be more productive.

01:31:42.498 --> 01:31:43.899
I think taking a break,

01:31:43.939 --> 01:31:46.282
taking rest is kind of important.

01:31:46.542 --> 01:31:47.842
And, you know,

01:31:47.943 --> 01:31:49.585
I guess I'll throw in a couple of

01:31:49.685 --> 01:31:52.886
extra ones.

01:31:52.988 --> 01:31:55.229
I do think exercise is pretty important.

01:31:55.770 --> 01:31:57.350
It's pretty good for your health as well.

01:31:58.152 --> 01:31:59.273
It's productive, I guess,

01:31:59.292 --> 01:32:00.793
because you are becoming healthier.

01:32:02.154 --> 01:32:03.036
I think people should...

01:32:04.596 --> 01:32:07.298
if you're able, uh, exercise regularly,

01:32:07.319 --> 01:32:08.500
you know, it's an important thing.

01:32:08.800 --> 01:32:12.582
I think it doesn't really achieve any

01:32:13.002 --> 01:32:13.844
particular goal.

01:32:13.884 --> 01:32:15.083
It just is, you know,

01:32:15.144 --> 01:32:16.945
it can be any sort of exercise is

01:32:16.966 --> 01:32:17.386
important.

01:32:17.405 --> 01:32:21.429
Um, yeah, I mean, I think it's,

01:32:22.248 --> 01:32:23.770
there's plenty of different, uh,

01:32:23.810 --> 01:32:24.411
things you can do.

01:32:24.551 --> 01:32:27.353
I enjoy photography, like in my free time,

01:32:27.393 --> 01:32:27.972
stuff like that.

01:32:28.033 --> 01:32:29.675
I think art stuff is also important,

01:32:29.715 --> 01:32:30.715
gets your brain going.

01:32:31.275 --> 01:32:31.416
Um,

01:32:33.117 --> 01:32:35.877
but I do think it is important to

01:32:36.798 --> 01:32:39.319
not make everything in your life about

01:32:40.500 --> 01:32:43.402
securing your privacy and like about this

01:32:43.502 --> 01:32:44.021
one topic.

01:32:44.141 --> 01:32:46.403
Cause that's, uh,

01:32:46.443 --> 01:32:48.283
that's one way you're going to get burnt

01:32:48.384 --> 01:32:48.524
out.

01:32:48.564 --> 01:32:50.925
That's actually a section on the activism

01:32:50.965 --> 01:32:52.265
section we recently launched.

01:32:52.826 --> 01:32:54.765
Um, so definitely check that out.

01:32:54.987 --> 01:32:57.967
Um, but I think, you know, it's,

01:33:00.546 --> 01:33:01.707
Yeah, it's an interesting thread.

01:33:01.747 --> 01:33:04.331
Maybe go over there and drop your favorite

01:33:04.371 --> 01:33:05.152
thing you like doing.

01:33:05.613 --> 01:33:06.914
I think it's nice to have these off

01:33:06.935 --> 01:33:09.398
topic forum threads sometimes because I

01:33:09.438 --> 01:33:12.703
feel like every thread is just like so

01:33:12.722 --> 01:33:13.143
draining.

01:33:13.344 --> 01:33:14.905
Like there's just every day,

01:33:14.945 --> 01:33:16.688
there's just a new story of like,

01:33:17.429 --> 01:33:19.430
the absolute worst thing happening.

01:33:20.270 --> 01:33:20.511
Um,

01:33:21.230 --> 01:33:24.172
and sometimes it's good to disconnect a

01:33:24.193 --> 01:33:24.512
little bit.

01:33:24.552 --> 01:33:26.734
Maybe that means not actually going on the

01:33:26.795 --> 01:33:29.716
privacy guides forum for a day, you know,

01:33:29.737 --> 01:33:30.476
taking a break.

01:33:30.976 --> 01:33:33.099
Um, it's definitely helpful.

01:33:33.338 --> 01:33:34.760
Um, and yeah,

01:33:34.779 --> 01:33:36.060
I think it would be more productive if

01:33:36.100 --> 01:33:37.041
you take more breaks.

01:33:37.381 --> 01:33:39.443
Um, everyone needs days off.

01:33:39.483 --> 01:33:41.423
Yeah.

01:33:41.463 --> 01:33:42.184
A hundred percent.

01:33:42.664 --> 01:33:44.765
Um, yeah, I mean,

01:33:44.826 --> 01:33:45.886
I don't really have much more to add.

01:33:45.907 --> 01:33:46.447
Do you have anything?

01:33:48.292 --> 01:33:49.474
I don't think so.

01:33:49.694 --> 01:33:50.836
I was going to say we could probably

01:33:50.876 --> 01:33:53.198
move into viewer questions now,

01:33:55.542 --> 01:33:57.826
which I think we've kind of been answering

01:33:57.865 --> 01:33:59.648
them as we went in the live chat,

01:33:59.688 --> 01:33:59.948
right?

01:34:00.009 --> 01:34:01.770
Have we missed any that we haven't covered

01:34:01.791 --> 01:34:02.032
yet?

01:34:04.677 --> 01:34:04.738
Um,

01:34:04.858 --> 01:34:07.078
I think there was just people kind of

01:34:07.139 --> 01:34:09.319
sort of making comments here.

01:34:09.859 --> 01:34:12.060
Not really any questions per se.

01:34:12.520 --> 01:34:13.860
We did kind of talk about a lot

01:34:13.900 --> 01:34:14.980
of stuff, uh,

01:34:15.001 --> 01:34:16.461
that was already covered in a lot of

01:34:16.501 --> 01:34:17.261
these points.

01:34:17.301 --> 01:34:18.261
Like someone mentioned.

01:34:19.601 --> 01:34:21.882
Ninety-nine percent of what these browser

01:34:22.002 --> 01:34:25.724
AI things can be replicated in a browser.

01:34:26.463 --> 01:34:26.783
Um,

01:34:27.824 --> 01:34:29.685
and browsers are less permission heavy.

01:34:29.784 --> 01:34:31.746
So like using an AI app is kind

01:34:31.765 --> 01:34:32.326
of useless.

01:34:33.722 --> 01:34:34.743
Yeah, I agree.

01:34:36.086 --> 01:34:37.927
They need a light version of the iPhone.

01:34:41.190 --> 01:34:41.612
Maybe.

01:34:41.631 --> 01:34:41.912
Oh, no, no, no.

01:34:41.931 --> 01:34:43.332
They're talking about a uBlock Origin

01:34:43.594 --> 01:34:43.953
light.

01:34:43.974 --> 01:34:45.296
There's the uBlock Origin light for

01:34:45.416 --> 01:34:45.716
iPhone,

01:34:45.735 --> 01:34:47.778
which I think actually we did add back

01:34:47.837 --> 01:34:50.280
to the website.

01:34:51.502 --> 01:34:53.123
I think we talk about it on our

01:34:53.283 --> 01:34:54.905
iOS section, if I remember correctly.

01:34:55.520 --> 01:34:56.140
I think you're right.

01:34:56.260 --> 01:34:56.819
Yeah.

01:34:56.840 --> 01:34:57.621
Um, and ad guard,

01:34:57.720 --> 01:34:59.360
I think those are the two recommendations

01:34:59.400 --> 01:35:01.081
still, cuz ad guard does, uh,

01:35:01.162 --> 01:35:03.181
it does still protect web apps and things.

01:35:04.021 --> 01:35:05.703
So that is a good point.

01:35:05.722 --> 01:35:05.903
Sorry.

01:35:05.922 --> 01:35:06.422
I missed that.

01:35:06.743 --> 01:35:08.462
I kind of misunderstood that comment.

01:35:09.484 --> 01:35:11.344
Um, but yeah,

01:35:11.363 --> 01:35:13.744
was there any comments from members on our

01:35:13.965 --> 01:35:16.586
forum thread this week?

01:35:16.626 --> 01:35:20.747
So, yeah, I, I think I passed it.

01:35:21.367 --> 01:35:21.567
Um,

01:35:22.971 --> 01:35:24.994
Yeah, we did have not too many.

01:35:25.395 --> 01:35:27.418
I know one question we got was about...

01:35:28.529 --> 01:35:30.051
I don't know if this person's watching

01:35:30.091 --> 01:35:31.610
right now, but somebody asked us,

01:35:32.310 --> 01:35:33.532
is it possible to provide a list of

01:35:33.591 --> 01:35:35.252
news articles that the stream will go over

01:35:35.271 --> 01:35:35.692
in advance?

01:35:36.552 --> 01:35:37.573
Just to give you guys a little peek

01:35:37.592 --> 01:35:39.134
behind the scene, the short answer is no.

01:35:39.793 --> 01:35:42.454
Because what happens is,

01:35:42.614 --> 01:35:43.375
and I think I may have said this

01:35:43.395 --> 01:35:45.115
before, is throughout the week,

01:35:45.315 --> 01:35:47.457
we kind of collect articles that we may

01:35:47.497 --> 01:35:48.216
want to talk about.

01:35:48.756 --> 01:35:50.597
And we try to keep it to four

01:35:50.618 --> 01:35:52.738
to six articles on average.

01:35:53.298 --> 01:35:53.719
And so...

01:35:54.738 --> 01:35:57.199
we kind of wait until friday and that's

01:35:57.220 --> 01:35:59.600
when we go over like okay what are

01:35:59.622 --> 01:36:01.322
the main things we really really want to

01:36:01.341 --> 01:36:03.182
talk about and what are the things that

01:36:03.222 --> 01:36:06.744
we can um drop off to you know

01:36:06.765 --> 01:36:08.166
uh like the news feed or the news

01:36:08.225 --> 01:36:10.546
section um thankfully we do have the news

01:36:10.587 --> 01:36:11.787
section where even if we don't cover an

01:36:11.828 --> 01:36:13.268
article here we might still write about it

01:36:13.307 --> 01:36:15.750
there so uh and sometimes we do both

01:36:15.949 --> 01:36:16.109
but

01:36:16.750 --> 01:36:16.949
Yeah.

01:36:17.170 --> 01:36:17.951
Uh, a lot of the time,

01:36:17.970 --> 01:36:20.052
like we're not, uh, we're,

01:36:20.113 --> 01:36:22.014
we're still like Friday afternoon.

01:36:23.175 --> 01:36:24.176
Um, us time we're,

01:36:24.195 --> 01:36:25.176
we're still like putting this stuff

01:36:25.197 --> 01:36:25.856
together.

01:36:25.896 --> 01:36:28.640
So unfortunately that's not really doable

01:36:28.899 --> 01:36:29.199
in advance.

01:36:29.220 --> 01:36:30.541
And to also add to that as well,

01:36:30.740 --> 01:36:32.261
sometimes we're like, you know,

01:36:32.523 --> 01:36:34.885
it's Thursday morning and we're like still

01:36:34.904 --> 01:36:36.104
trying to work out what the highlight

01:36:36.145 --> 01:36:38.466
story is because sometimes there's just

01:36:38.606 --> 01:36:39.568
not that much going on.

01:36:39.608 --> 01:36:40.309
Like, you know,

01:36:40.588 --> 01:36:42.170
we can't really release the newsletter if

01:36:42.189 --> 01:36:43.270
we don't even know what the highlight

01:36:43.291 --> 01:36:44.091
story is going to be.

01:36:44.752 --> 01:36:47.654
Um, so we're sorry that that's,

01:36:47.873 --> 01:36:49.314
that it's kind of frustrating, I guess.

01:36:49.555 --> 01:36:51.496
Um, but you know, we've been like,

01:36:51.555 --> 01:36:53.115
Nate's been doing a great job with like,

01:36:53.296 --> 01:36:56.318
we published the newsletter as soon as the

01:36:56.337 --> 01:36:57.219
live stream starts.

01:36:57.298 --> 01:36:58.819
Like if you check your inbox,

01:36:58.878 --> 01:37:00.000
like it'll be there.

01:37:00.359 --> 01:37:03.181
Um, so I would, if you're worried,

01:37:03.202 --> 01:37:04.421
if you want to know what we're talking

01:37:04.442 --> 01:37:05.502
about on the live stream,

01:37:05.983 --> 01:37:07.823
then that'll be the best place to see

01:37:07.863 --> 01:37:08.104
that.

01:37:08.344 --> 01:37:08.965
Um,

01:37:09.104 --> 01:37:10.284
I did drop a link in the forum

01:37:10.324 --> 01:37:10.886
thread there.

01:37:11.286 --> 01:37:11.466
Um,

01:37:12.725 --> 01:37:13.664
but if you do want to sign up

01:37:13.704 --> 01:37:16.105
it's just privacyguides.org forward slash

01:37:16.166 --> 01:37:17.826
live stream and if you press the donate

01:37:17.865 --> 01:37:20.226
button in the bottom right and you select

01:37:20.386 --> 01:37:22.807
free on that so you don't have to

01:37:22.847 --> 01:37:24.207
pay money to join the newsletter or

01:37:24.228 --> 01:37:26.988
anything you'll get the update

01:37:27.029 --> 01:37:29.368
notifications for the live stream and that

01:37:29.408 --> 01:37:32.470
includes all the links and also like some

01:37:32.649 --> 01:37:35.570
small summaries of the stories as well so

01:37:35.591 --> 01:37:37.350
if you want to follow along while we're

01:37:37.390 --> 01:37:38.671
talking on the live stream you can

01:37:39.505 --> 01:37:40.586
get that to your inbox.

01:37:41.405 --> 01:37:43.368
It also goes live onto the website

01:37:43.408 --> 01:37:45.349
eventually, but let's see,

01:37:45.368 --> 01:37:46.550
is it on there right now?

01:37:47.149 --> 01:37:48.711
Yeah, it looks like it is.

01:37:48.730 --> 01:37:49.771
It should be, yeah,

01:37:49.792 --> 01:37:51.233
because when I publish it,

01:37:51.292 --> 01:37:52.613
I choose publish and email,

01:37:52.654 --> 01:37:53.873
so it should go to both the website

01:37:53.994 --> 01:37:55.215
and the... So yeah,

01:37:55.255 --> 01:37:56.515
if you prefer to use RSS for some

01:37:56.555 --> 01:37:56.796
reason,

01:37:56.815 --> 01:37:58.518
you can subscribe to that section and

01:37:58.557 --> 01:37:59.898
that'll pop up in your RSS feed as

01:37:59.938 --> 01:38:00.639
soon as we publish it.

01:38:02.512 --> 01:38:03.954
Looks like we got a comment from

01:38:04.295 --> 01:38:05.076
Cannabida.

01:38:05.315 --> 01:38:07.237
Do you recommend any books that are not

01:38:07.317 --> 01:38:09.279
explicitly about privacy,

01:38:09.698 --> 01:38:11.440
but privacy adjacent?

01:38:12.202 --> 01:38:13.483
That is a very good question.

01:38:14.863 --> 01:38:15.845
I know the answer is yes,

01:38:15.864 --> 01:38:17.185
but I'm struggling to remember what they

01:38:17.206 --> 01:38:18.226
are because I know there's been a few

01:38:18.287 --> 01:38:19.488
books that I've read and I'm like,

01:38:19.568 --> 01:38:21.469
I kind of want to add this over

01:38:21.509 --> 01:38:23.091
on the new oil as a recommended book,

01:38:23.131 --> 01:38:25.432
but it's not really privacy related per

01:38:25.453 --> 01:38:25.813
se.

01:38:26.434 --> 01:38:27.494
And now I'm trying to remember what they

01:38:27.534 --> 01:38:27.715
were.

01:38:28.567 --> 01:38:31.009
I feel like in shitification, uh,

01:38:31.269 --> 01:38:32.670
by Cory doctor is a good one.

01:38:32.930 --> 01:38:33.430
Like that's,

01:38:33.511 --> 01:38:34.771
I just bought that one the other day.

01:38:34.931 --> 01:38:36.613
I'm waiting for it to ship.

01:38:36.912 --> 01:38:37.333
Nice.

01:38:37.394 --> 01:38:37.613
Yeah.

01:38:37.734 --> 01:38:38.614
That's a, that's a definite,

01:38:38.654 --> 01:38:40.095
that's like one that's it's not

01:38:40.136 --> 01:38:41.317
technically about privacy.

01:38:41.337 --> 01:38:42.277
It's just like, you know,

01:38:43.457 --> 01:38:46.340
adjacent big tech being awful kind of

01:38:46.780 --> 01:38:48.141
explaining that whole process.

01:38:48.801 --> 01:38:49.483
Um, Hmm.

01:38:50.289 --> 01:38:52.091
Ooh, Andy Greenberg,

01:38:52.112 --> 01:38:53.252
who I think actually wrote one of the

01:38:53.292 --> 01:38:55.154
articles we covered today,

01:38:55.354 --> 01:38:56.235
or maybe one of the ones we were

01:38:56.275 --> 01:38:56.756
considering.

01:38:57.676 --> 01:38:59.458
But he's a writer for Wired,

01:38:59.538 --> 01:39:00.801
and he's written quite a few.

01:39:00.820 --> 01:39:02.322
Like, Sandworm is really good,

01:39:02.842 --> 01:39:05.625
and that's about Russia's state hacking

01:39:05.645 --> 01:39:05.945
group.

01:39:07.466 --> 01:39:09.890
He's written Tracers in the Dark,

01:39:10.069 --> 01:39:10.489
which is...

01:39:11.693 --> 01:39:11.953
Um,

01:39:12.212 --> 01:39:13.833
it's divided into four sections and the

01:39:13.854 --> 01:39:16.956
last section is about finding people who

01:39:17.015 --> 01:39:18.817
host CSAM websites on the dark web.

01:39:18.976 --> 01:39:20.078
So just fair warning.

01:39:20.158 --> 01:39:21.177
That was a tough read.

01:39:22.198 --> 01:39:24.020
Um, the first three parts are great.

01:39:24.079 --> 01:39:25.661
That last part was a little rough to

01:39:25.680 --> 01:39:26.060
get through.

01:39:26.841 --> 01:39:28.282
Um, yeah,

01:39:28.322 --> 01:39:29.242
he's written a couple of books that I

01:39:29.261 --> 01:39:30.922
wouldn't say are like directly privacy

01:39:30.962 --> 01:39:31.264
related.

01:39:31.323 --> 01:39:31.684
Cause again,

01:39:31.724 --> 01:39:34.284
they're about like cyber crime and state

01:39:34.324 --> 01:39:34.885
hackers,

01:39:34.944 --> 01:39:36.445
but they're very interesting and they're,

01:39:36.645 --> 01:39:37.707
they're adjacent for sure.

01:39:40.755 --> 01:39:42.417
yeah i mean this i feel like you

01:39:42.457 --> 01:39:46.444
have quite a few different options to pick

01:39:46.703 --> 01:39:48.726
uh maybe you might have to i reckon

01:39:48.747 --> 01:39:51.070
if you go to like corey doctor's stuff

01:39:51.110 --> 01:39:52.733
he probably has like a bunch of books

01:39:52.752 --> 01:39:55.056
that are semi-related to this whole thing

01:39:55.117 --> 01:39:55.617
right i think

01:39:56.118 --> 01:39:57.618
He's a good person to look at.

01:39:58.380 --> 01:39:58.939
But I don't know.

01:39:59.461 --> 01:40:00.662
Yeah, I can't really think of too many.

01:40:00.761 --> 01:40:02.063
I know there's like quite a few books

01:40:02.103 --> 01:40:04.024
about like sort of the AI stuff that's

01:40:04.064 --> 01:40:04.824
going on now.

01:40:05.385 --> 01:40:07.787
I saw those like one on my timeline

01:40:07.907 --> 01:40:09.347
the other day, The AI Con.

01:40:10.349 --> 01:40:11.590
That's also an interesting one.

01:40:11.689 --> 01:40:13.291
I can't really think of too many other

01:40:13.992 --> 01:40:16.434
non privacy related books.

01:40:16.573 --> 01:40:17.755
I can think of a lot of privacy

01:40:17.795 --> 01:40:18.454
related books,

01:40:18.494 --> 01:40:21.537
but just not like somewhat outside that.

01:40:23.481 --> 01:40:24.122
I haven't read it,

01:40:24.141 --> 01:40:25.283
but on the topic of AI,

01:40:25.363 --> 01:40:26.823
I've heard a lot of good things about

01:40:28.024 --> 01:40:31.806
if anyone builds it, we all die,

01:40:32.306 --> 01:40:34.849
which is about the quest to build AGI,

01:40:34.988 --> 01:40:36.310
artificial general intelligence.

01:40:36.350 --> 01:40:37.411
So I haven't read it,

01:40:37.430 --> 01:40:38.890
but I've heard a lot of good things.

01:40:41.113 --> 01:40:41.453
Yeah.

01:40:42.394 --> 01:40:44.534
I can't really think of too much here,

01:40:44.675 --> 01:40:45.354
too much more.

01:40:45.375 --> 01:40:46.916
But yeah,

01:40:46.935 --> 01:40:48.117
was there any other things you were

01:40:48.136 --> 01:40:49.618
thinking on the forum thread here?

01:40:51.023 --> 01:40:52.363
The last thing I wanted to mention that

01:40:52.623 --> 01:40:53.125
you did,

01:40:53.564 --> 01:40:55.286
we mentioned it in the site updates,

01:40:55.326 --> 01:40:59.368
but somebody asked us to go over the

01:40:59.529 --> 01:41:02.270
homomorphic encryption story from Fria and

01:41:02.310 --> 01:41:03.171
just kind of explain it.

01:41:04.912 --> 01:41:05.814
Please go over the story.

01:41:06.713 --> 01:41:08.135
For more people to understand it simply

01:41:08.194 --> 01:41:08.395
put,

01:41:08.456 --> 01:41:09.877
I think it's important to know and follow.

01:41:10.697 --> 01:41:12.158
So homomorphic encryption,

01:41:12.279 --> 01:41:14.079
and this is grossly oversimplified,

01:41:14.961 --> 01:41:16.462
but it's basically a way,

01:41:16.542 --> 01:41:17.141
and it's a real thing.

01:41:17.181 --> 01:41:18.082
It's not just theoretical.

01:41:18.543 --> 01:41:21.725
It's a way to process data on a

01:41:21.786 --> 01:41:24.948
remote server in a way where it's still

01:41:25.029 --> 01:41:27.770
encrypted and the server can't see your

01:41:27.810 --> 01:41:28.131
data.

01:41:28.291 --> 01:41:31.514
So hypothetically, like right now,

01:41:31.694 --> 01:41:33.435
let's use Google and Proton as an example,

01:41:33.494 --> 01:41:33.694
right?

01:41:34.716 --> 01:41:35.117
Google...

01:41:36.770 --> 01:41:38.351
and I might have this wrong, but correct.

01:41:38.391 --> 01:41:39.252
Well, this part, I know I'm right.

01:41:39.552 --> 01:41:39.893
Google,

01:41:39.953 --> 01:41:41.094
you put your stuff on their server,

01:41:41.154 --> 01:41:41.854
you interact with it,

01:41:41.875 --> 01:41:42.655
but Google can see it.

01:41:43.275 --> 01:41:43.877
Proton,

01:41:44.617 --> 01:41:46.378
a lot of it has to be decrypted

01:41:46.538 --> 01:41:47.359
in your browser.

01:41:48.440 --> 01:41:49.481
So it tends to be a little bit

01:41:49.542 --> 01:41:51.243
slower because of that delay.

01:41:52.885 --> 01:41:54.565
Homomorphic encryption would be a way

01:41:54.706 --> 01:41:57.649
where it can still stay on the server

01:41:57.729 --> 01:41:58.770
and you can work with it in real

01:41:58.829 --> 01:42:01.152
time, but it would still be private.

01:42:01.231 --> 01:42:02.594
And I think it's designed more for...

01:42:04.783 --> 01:42:05.064
Oh, man,

01:42:05.123 --> 01:42:06.024
I can't think off the top of my

01:42:06.045 --> 01:42:06.145
head.

01:42:06.164 --> 01:42:07.725
But I know it's not designed for things

01:42:07.765 --> 01:42:08.966
like Proton, where it's like, oh,

01:42:08.985 --> 01:42:10.747
you can take that little performance hit.

01:42:11.547 --> 01:42:13.908
It's got very specific use cases.

01:42:15.689 --> 01:42:17.671
But the big problem is,

01:42:17.751 --> 01:42:20.112
and I don't know if this is an

01:42:20.192 --> 01:42:22.333
exaggeration or not, but...

01:42:23.503 --> 01:42:25.625
Freya wrote here that it's thousands of

01:42:25.685 --> 01:42:27.326
times slower than processing the data

01:42:27.405 --> 01:42:27.806
normally.

01:42:27.926 --> 01:42:29.608
And I don't think that is an exaggeration.

01:42:31.048 --> 01:42:33.090
So literally,

01:42:33.951 --> 01:42:35.612
just to give a tiny bit more context,

01:42:36.072 --> 01:42:37.252
Proton mentioned this when they talked

01:42:37.273 --> 01:42:37.853
about Lumo.

01:42:37.972 --> 01:42:39.094
And they were trying to figure out how

01:42:39.134 --> 01:42:40.994
they wanted to make Lumo private.

01:42:41.555 --> 01:42:42.735
And they mentioned that they had

01:42:42.815 --> 01:42:44.377
entertained the idea of homomorphic

01:42:44.417 --> 01:42:44.856
encryption,

01:42:45.417 --> 01:42:46.917
except it would literally take about ten

01:42:46.979 --> 01:42:48.600
minutes to get an answer back from your

01:42:48.640 --> 01:42:48.899
prompt.

01:42:49.460 --> 01:42:50.780
So like you type in your prompt,

01:42:51.180 --> 01:42:52.622
you go make coffee.

01:42:52.921 --> 01:42:53.842
Don't even just get a new cup,

01:42:53.863 --> 01:42:55.484
just make a whole new pot of coffee.

01:42:55.863 --> 01:42:57.305
And then you come back and hopefully your

01:42:57.345 --> 01:42:58.246
prompt will be ready for you.

01:42:58.305 --> 01:43:00.327
So it's not really feasible.

01:43:00.947 --> 01:43:02.728
It's not practical for most applications,

01:43:03.309 --> 01:43:06.091
but Intel released this new chip that

01:43:06.110 --> 01:43:07.150
they're calling Hercules.

01:43:08.072 --> 01:43:12.635
And it across seven key operations,

01:43:12.675 --> 01:43:14.796
Hercules was one thousand to five thousand

01:43:14.815 --> 01:43:15.697
times as fast.

01:43:16.387 --> 01:43:19.149
So it's still not quite there.

01:43:21.609 --> 01:43:22.730
Freya does talk about some of the

01:43:22.751 --> 01:43:24.231
challenges that are still facing

01:43:24.271 --> 01:43:25.311
homomorphic encryption here.

01:43:25.912 --> 01:43:27.953
But it is definitely really cool that

01:43:27.993 --> 01:43:30.713
we've seen such a major jump on this

01:43:31.635 --> 01:43:32.234
technology.

01:43:32.274 --> 01:43:34.195
Because if they can get it up to

01:43:34.235 --> 01:43:35.917
a more usable speed,

01:43:35.957 --> 01:43:37.117
that really would be a game changer.

01:43:40.331 --> 01:43:41.551
I don't want to compare it to nuclear

01:43:41.591 --> 01:43:43.293
fission or cold fusion or whatever it is

01:43:43.333 --> 01:43:44.314
because that's one of those things that

01:43:44.335 --> 01:43:46.237
it's like, oh, at this point,

01:43:46.796 --> 01:43:48.278
some people aren't even sure it's possible

01:43:48.318 --> 01:43:49.800
because it's so far away.

01:43:50.359 --> 01:43:53.342
But it is one of those holy grail

01:43:53.363 --> 01:43:54.264
kind of things that it's like, man,

01:43:54.283 --> 01:43:55.085
if we could do this,

01:43:55.944 --> 01:43:57.627
it would solve a lot of

01:43:58.837 --> 01:44:00.097
potential privacy problems.

01:44:00.198 --> 01:44:01.838
Although I do feel compelled to point out

01:44:01.859 --> 01:44:02.498
that at that point,

01:44:02.819 --> 01:44:04.020
the challenge would be getting companies

01:44:04.039 --> 01:44:05.981
to use it as we're seeing meta rollback

01:44:06.202 --> 01:44:06.981
and to end encryption.

01:44:07.021 --> 01:44:09.224
So there's already a lot of solutions that

01:44:09.243 --> 01:44:10.404
people just don't feel like using,

01:44:10.463 --> 01:44:11.564
but it would be nice to have this

01:44:11.585 --> 01:44:12.765
in our toolkit too, because again,

01:44:12.786 --> 01:44:14.787
there are specific use cases for it where

01:44:15.228 --> 01:44:16.908
I think people would readily use it.

01:44:16.969 --> 01:44:18.309
It's just not where we need it to

01:44:18.350 --> 01:44:19.189
be right now.

01:44:19.229 --> 01:44:20.610
So yeah.

01:44:21.274 --> 01:44:24.377
I think, you know,

01:44:24.476 --> 01:44:25.997
I've got to be the AI hater on

01:44:26.018 --> 01:44:26.819
the podcast.

01:44:27.458 --> 01:44:28.779
So I'm going to say, you know,

01:44:29.480 --> 01:44:31.542
if you do read the link,

01:44:31.702 --> 01:44:33.603
if you look at the link that Freya

01:44:33.662 --> 01:44:36.966
linked with this chip that they're working

01:44:37.006 --> 01:44:39.567
on, it does still mention, like,

01:44:39.646 --> 01:44:41.488
when they use this homomorphic encryption,

01:44:42.029 --> 01:44:42.630
it basically...

01:44:43.590 --> 01:44:45.391
significantly increases the amount of

01:44:45.452 --> 01:44:46.511
memory that's used.

01:44:47.172 --> 01:44:49.515
And I don't know if you're aware of

01:44:49.534 --> 01:44:52.577
the global RAM shortage,

01:44:52.817 --> 01:44:55.038
the global computer component shortage.

01:44:55.739 --> 01:44:56.980
I feel like we don't need to make

01:44:57.041 --> 01:44:59.002
it any worse by doing this,

01:44:59.622 --> 01:45:01.344
by doing this homomorphic encryption

01:45:01.384 --> 01:45:01.644
thing.

01:45:02.664 --> 01:45:03.506
I think, you know,

01:45:06.118 --> 01:45:07.939
I would push, you know,

01:45:07.979 --> 01:45:10.381
I don't recommend that you use these AI

01:45:10.421 --> 01:45:10.902
tools.

01:45:11.042 --> 01:45:12.603
I mean, if you have to though,

01:45:12.662 --> 01:45:13.923
if you absolutely have to,

01:45:13.963 --> 01:45:14.965
there's local options,

01:45:15.024 --> 01:45:17.606
but I think one interesting thing that

01:45:17.646 --> 01:45:19.448
this sort of homomorphic encryption thing

01:45:20.128 --> 01:45:20.229
or

01:45:21.658 --> 01:45:23.399
I guess it's like trusted computing,

01:45:23.498 --> 01:45:23.899
I guess.

01:45:24.220 --> 01:45:24.859
Is that sort of,

01:45:25.079 --> 01:45:26.341
I feel like this is a similar thing.

01:45:27.021 --> 01:45:28.162
Um, but yeah,

01:45:28.181 --> 01:45:30.144
Freya mentions that in the article.

01:45:30.264 --> 01:45:30.564
Okay.

01:45:30.884 --> 01:45:31.144
Right.

01:45:31.545 --> 01:45:31.704
Yeah.

01:45:31.824 --> 01:45:32.845
So basically the,

01:45:33.086 --> 01:45:35.106
there was a VPN service that was doing

01:45:35.146 --> 01:45:38.208
this through Intel's SGX system to

01:45:38.269 --> 01:45:38.729
protect,

01:45:38.850 --> 01:45:41.470
basically it would be an additional layer

01:45:41.730 --> 01:45:44.493
because when you trust a VPN service,

01:45:44.512 --> 01:45:47.515
you basically have to trust that they're

01:45:47.534 --> 01:45:49.957
not gonna log your traffic or they're

01:45:49.976 --> 01:45:50.858
gonna, you know,

01:45:51.618 --> 01:45:52.938
because there has to there has to be

01:45:52.997 --> 01:45:55.899
processing that's done to actually

01:45:56.719 --> 01:45:58.520
facilitate the connection between you and

01:45:58.539 --> 01:45:59.439
the VPN server.

01:46:00.260 --> 01:46:01.859
So that can't be encrypted.

01:46:01.960 --> 01:46:04.841
But there was this VPN company that was

01:46:04.860 --> 01:46:06.140
saying that's what they were doing.

01:46:06.161 --> 01:46:08.721
They were using like an Intel SGX like

01:46:09.122 --> 01:46:10.341
secure enclave system.

01:46:10.381 --> 01:46:11.983
So like basically no one would be able

01:46:12.002 --> 01:46:12.922
to get access to it.

01:46:12.983 --> 01:46:15.904
It would be in like a trusted platform

01:46:15.944 --> 01:46:16.163
thing.

01:46:18.716 --> 01:46:20.542
It's also interesting because I feel like

01:46:20.681 --> 01:46:23.189
Apple was also pushing this sort of thing.

01:46:23.229 --> 01:46:25.014
They're like doing their private cloud

01:46:25.054 --> 01:46:25.956
compute system.

01:46:27.162 --> 01:46:29.182
hello, Apple, where is it?

01:46:29.844 --> 01:46:30.264
It's like,

01:46:31.064 --> 01:46:33.926
this seems like a similar technology

01:46:33.966 --> 01:46:34.207
thing.

01:46:34.266 --> 01:46:35.787
Like it seems like a very similar thing,

01:46:36.268 --> 01:46:37.890
except, you know, they're not using Intel,

01:46:37.909 --> 01:46:39.591
they're using Apple Silicon instead,

01:46:39.631 --> 01:46:42.353
which I think gives them an edge really,

01:46:42.412 --> 01:46:44.895
because they're not relying on a third

01:46:44.935 --> 01:46:48.237
party company like Intel.

01:46:48.256 --> 01:46:50.297
Like, you know, if you,

01:46:50.318 --> 01:46:51.519
they can do everything in house,

01:46:51.578 --> 01:46:52.880
like firmware's in house,

01:46:53.140 --> 01:46:54.601
the Silicon's made in house.

01:46:55.381 --> 01:46:58.131
I still think that they use fabricators

01:46:58.171 --> 01:47:00.740
still, but they're like a,

01:47:00.961 --> 01:47:01.462
what do you call that?

01:47:03.550 --> 01:47:03.829
I don't know.

01:47:03.989 --> 01:47:05.532
They don't fabricate the silicon

01:47:05.572 --> 01:47:06.091
themselves.

01:47:06.112 --> 01:47:07.573
They outsource it, I believe.

01:47:07.712 --> 01:47:09.474
But yeah,

01:47:09.514 --> 01:47:10.534
it kind of puts them in a better

01:47:10.555 --> 01:47:12.737
position to do that.

01:47:12.837 --> 01:47:16.600
But that still hasn't really appeared.

01:47:16.619 --> 01:47:18.001
I don't know what's going on with the

01:47:18.060 --> 01:47:19.502
private cloud compute thing.

01:47:19.702 --> 01:47:21.603
I think it's an interesting topic to keep

01:47:22.083 --> 01:47:22.623
an eye on.

01:47:22.684 --> 01:47:23.645
But I think, you know,

01:47:23.685 --> 01:47:24.485
like Freya was saying,

01:47:26.646 --> 01:47:28.228
the constraints of this are too...

01:47:29.328 --> 01:47:31.489
are too high like it's it doesn't it

01:47:31.510 --> 01:47:33.671
can't do enough but maybe this could be

01:47:33.930 --> 01:47:37.032
used as you know this technology could be

01:47:37.212 --> 01:47:39.793
used in a specific application like a vpn

01:47:39.833 --> 01:47:41.434
where it doesn't need as much processing

01:47:41.474 --> 01:47:44.136
power i'm not sure but i think it's

01:47:44.195 --> 01:47:47.377
definitely an area that you know privacy

01:47:47.457 --> 01:47:49.238
advocates should keep an eye on because

01:47:49.358 --> 01:47:51.979
this is technology that could be used

01:47:53.239 --> 01:47:55.561
in a positive way, hopefully not for AI,

01:47:55.863 --> 01:47:58.164
but if it's used for AI, I mean,

01:47:58.385 --> 01:48:00.728
I hope it offers some sort of extra

01:48:00.787 --> 01:48:02.470
privacy protection.

01:48:02.890 --> 01:48:03.029
Um,

01:48:03.090 --> 01:48:04.671
I think one concern a lot of people

01:48:04.712 --> 01:48:06.292
have is their prompts being used for

01:48:06.332 --> 01:48:07.033
training data.

01:48:07.654 --> 01:48:10.216
If it wasn't in a secure SGX, like,

01:48:10.637 --> 01:48:11.217
or I guess,

01:48:11.259 --> 01:48:12.118
what are they calling this one?

01:48:12.139 --> 01:48:13.020
They're calling it the,

01:48:13.701 --> 01:48:15.563
the trusted execution environment.

01:48:17.326 --> 01:48:19.948
fully homomorphic encryption chip in a

01:48:20.007 --> 01:48:22.850
trusted security environment or whatever

01:48:22.871 --> 01:48:23.310
Nate said.

01:48:24.271 --> 01:48:26.212
Yeah, like, yeah, I don't know.

01:48:26.313 --> 01:48:29.034
That would be better than people just

01:48:29.095 --> 01:48:30.735
giving their data straight to open AI.

01:48:30.936 --> 01:48:34.599
But I feel like the interest of these

01:48:34.658 --> 01:48:36.921
big companies is not in protecting

01:48:36.961 --> 01:48:37.761
people's privacy.

01:48:37.801 --> 01:48:39.943
They like to slurp up your data for

01:48:39.983 --> 01:48:40.344
training.

01:48:41.100 --> 01:48:41.841
Um,

01:48:41.860 --> 01:48:44.082
so I'm not sure this can maybe become

01:48:44.143 --> 01:48:45.963
more popular on like a niche product like

01:48:46.003 --> 01:48:46.463
proton,

01:48:46.623 --> 01:48:49.284
but I don't think open AI or Google

01:48:49.324 --> 01:48:53.226
Gemini is gonna sacrifice their speed,

01:48:53.327 --> 01:48:56.109
their processing power just for, you know,

01:48:56.389 --> 01:48:57.869
protecting their people's private,

01:48:57.909 --> 01:48:59.331
the user's privacy.

01:48:59.490 --> 01:48:59.890
I don't think.

01:49:02.167 --> 01:49:06.050
Yeah, I mean, not to be overly optimistic,

01:49:06.090 --> 01:49:07.671
but I think the thing that makes me

01:49:07.711 --> 01:49:09.051
excited about this kind of stuff is that

01:49:09.872 --> 01:49:11.152
it's another step forward, right?

01:49:11.212 --> 01:49:11.511
Like, yeah,

01:49:11.551 --> 01:49:14.014
it's still not ready in this state.

01:49:14.094 --> 01:49:15.453
It's still too slow, and there's...

01:49:16.994 --> 01:49:18.076
What did they say at the end here?

01:49:18.296 --> 01:49:18.416
Uh...

01:49:19.155 --> 01:49:20.356
For FHE to take off,

01:49:20.377 --> 01:49:22.057
there needs to be support at all levels.

01:49:22.837 --> 01:49:24.059
And then there's a company that focuses

01:49:24.099 --> 01:49:25.619
more on the software side of things.

01:49:26.961 --> 01:49:28.320
There's another company that's looking to

01:49:28.462 --> 01:49:29.801
move away from the limits of traditional

01:49:29.841 --> 01:49:31.443
computers and utilize photonics,

01:49:31.502 --> 01:49:33.545
computing with light to speed up FHE even

01:49:33.604 --> 01:49:33.885
more.

01:49:34.904 --> 01:49:37.907
So there's still a lot to be done

01:49:38.106 --> 01:49:39.488
and different people trying to tackle it.

01:49:40.068 --> 01:49:40.408
I think...

01:49:41.408 --> 01:49:42.989
What I like about it is just the

01:49:43.010 --> 01:49:44.911
fact that it is a step forward because

01:49:45.690 --> 01:49:47.351
FHE, yeah, I mean, it's,

01:49:48.033 --> 01:49:48.932
I think we both kind of said the

01:49:48.953 --> 01:49:49.512
same thing that like,

01:49:49.533 --> 01:49:50.793
there's no guarantee that companies will

01:49:50.873 --> 01:49:51.194
use this.

01:49:51.234 --> 01:49:53.175
And Freya did even specifically mention

01:49:53.215 --> 01:49:54.076
like AI, you know,

01:49:54.195 --> 01:49:56.377
maybe they said it could be the case

01:49:56.396 --> 01:49:57.037
that in a few years,

01:49:57.077 --> 01:49:58.198
it'll be the norm to make a fully

01:49:58.278 --> 01:50:00.458
end-to-end encrypted query to Google or

01:50:00.559 --> 01:50:02.140
ask chat GPT for dinner ideas in a

01:50:02.180 --> 01:50:03.400
fully end-to-end encrypted manner.

01:50:04.201 --> 01:50:06.262
But even if we get to a point

01:50:06.302 --> 01:50:06.963
where it's like, yeah,

01:50:07.345 --> 01:50:08.865
the resource usage is minimal,

01:50:08.947 --> 01:50:09.988
the speeds are minimal,

01:50:10.228 --> 01:50:12.831
this is totally economically feasible,

01:50:13.971 --> 01:50:16.154
will it still be economically feasible for

01:50:16.194 --> 01:50:17.796
the company who collects all your data?

01:50:19.358 --> 01:50:20.560
Which at that point, I think,

01:50:21.461 --> 01:50:22.662
this is kind of a different discussion,

01:50:22.742 --> 01:50:23.804
but I think some...

01:50:25.720 --> 01:50:27.841
I think there has been a rise in

01:50:28.682 --> 01:50:30.384
people caring about privacy.

01:50:30.444 --> 01:50:31.404
You can tell in the marketing.

01:50:32.166 --> 01:50:33.667
Everybody's always trying to like, oh,

01:50:34.667 --> 01:50:36.409
we care about your privacy with this

01:50:36.449 --> 01:50:37.289
product, even if they don't.

01:50:37.310 --> 01:50:38.091
They say they do.

01:50:39.391 --> 01:50:40.693
We give you the option to opt out.

01:50:41.033 --> 01:50:42.734
We don't train on your prompts.

01:50:43.475 --> 01:50:44.476
Companies say that stuff,

01:50:44.497 --> 01:50:45.997
which to me tells me that there are

01:50:46.037 --> 01:50:46.479
people who

01:50:47.179 --> 01:50:48.600
are concerned about this stuff and maybe

01:50:48.640 --> 01:50:49.701
don't know as much as they should.

01:50:49.761 --> 01:50:52.082
Maybe don't understand what the company's

01:50:52.122 --> 01:50:53.363
lying when they say that or how to

01:50:53.404 --> 01:50:54.423
tell if the company's lying.

01:50:54.864 --> 01:50:55.564
But the point is,

01:50:55.645 --> 01:50:57.265
I think there will be some people who

01:50:58.487 --> 01:50:59.408
like, you know,

01:50:59.427 --> 01:51:00.469
for all the crap we give Apple,

01:51:00.609 --> 01:51:02.430
I could totally see Apple if this became,

01:51:03.091 --> 01:51:04.271
again, economically feasible,

01:51:04.391 --> 01:51:05.972
Apple being like, yeah, let's do this.

01:51:06.773 --> 01:51:07.413
And it's like,

01:51:08.779 --> 01:51:10.060
Now that Apple's doing it,

01:51:10.100 --> 01:51:11.542
Google's got to keep up or somebody's got

01:51:11.561 --> 01:51:12.061
to keep up.

01:51:12.143 --> 01:51:15.244
So they'll always try to find a way,

01:51:15.465 --> 01:51:16.085
just to be clear,

01:51:16.104 --> 01:51:17.386
they'll always try to find a way to

01:51:17.426 --> 01:51:18.306
do the bare minimum.

01:51:18.988 --> 01:51:21.789
So even if Apple or anybody,

01:51:21.829 --> 01:51:23.171
if anybody were to roll this out,

01:51:23.570 --> 01:51:24.771
there will be other companies who are

01:51:24.811 --> 01:51:25.231
like, yeah,

01:51:25.271 --> 01:51:27.814
we encrypt your stuff at rest and we

01:51:27.854 --> 01:51:29.175
say that it's encrypted.

01:51:29.194 --> 01:51:30.496
We already see that right now, right?

01:51:30.536 --> 01:51:31.296
We see that with Apple.

01:51:32.077 --> 01:51:33.217
like companies saying, oh,

01:51:33.278 --> 01:51:34.859
we secure your stuff with military grade

01:51:34.878 --> 01:51:36.119
encryption, which means nothing.

01:51:36.760 --> 01:51:38.481
And it's just a marketing thing while

01:51:38.502 --> 01:51:39.301
they're doing the bare minimum.

01:51:39.341 --> 01:51:39.822
It's like, yeah,

01:51:39.882 --> 01:51:41.363
you use passwords and TLS.

01:51:41.423 --> 01:51:42.104
Nobody's impressed.

01:51:42.163 --> 01:51:43.404
But I don't know.

01:51:43.805 --> 01:51:45.586
My point being is it's definitely a

01:51:45.646 --> 01:51:47.427
different set of obstacles to get over,

01:51:47.467 --> 01:51:48.548
but it's still nice to see

01:51:49.288 --> 01:51:51.710
that this is taking steps forward, um,

01:51:52.090 --> 01:51:53.670
and even becoming an option in the first

01:51:53.710 --> 01:51:53.949
place,

01:51:53.989 --> 01:51:55.791
because that's really the first step,

01:51:55.831 --> 01:51:55.990
right?

01:51:56.030 --> 01:51:58.131
Is this has to be usable so that

01:51:58.152 --> 01:51:58.792
people can use it.

01:51:58.832 --> 01:52:00.072
And then hopefully from there it'll become

01:52:00.112 --> 01:52:00.511
adopted.

01:52:00.591 --> 01:52:03.252
But at that point we're speculating and my

01:52:03.273 --> 01:52:04.673
crystal ball is currently in the shop.

01:52:04.953 --> 01:52:06.333
So I cannot predict the future.

01:52:08.505 --> 01:52:09.706
Yeah, but yeah,

01:52:09.725 --> 01:52:11.506
that's pretty much all I had to comment

01:52:11.546 --> 01:52:11.987
on that one.

01:52:12.127 --> 01:52:12.327
I mean,

01:52:12.466 --> 01:52:15.328
hopefully that is a useful discussion for

01:52:15.349 --> 01:52:16.630
you to understand it a bit better.

01:52:16.989 --> 01:52:18.791
I hope we explained it well enough and

01:52:20.091 --> 01:52:21.733
at least cut through some of the hype

01:52:22.653 --> 01:52:24.555
because definitely is a little bit hyped,

01:52:24.715 --> 01:52:25.055
I think.

01:52:25.854 --> 01:52:27.155
But yeah.

01:52:29.176 --> 01:52:29.917
Yeah, definitely.

01:52:30.938 --> 01:52:32.078
It's a complicated topic.

01:52:32.599 --> 01:52:34.300
So we like severely dumbed it down,

01:52:34.399 --> 01:52:35.341
but hopefully that did help.

01:52:36.701 --> 01:52:39.402
But I think that's everything we had for

01:52:39.421 --> 01:52:39.841
this week.

01:52:40.021 --> 01:52:42.382
So thank you guys for watching.

01:52:42.523 --> 01:52:44.243
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01:52:44.304 --> 01:52:45.963
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