Trey: Hello and welcome back to another episode of MCU need to know a podcast
dedicated to the Marvel cinematic universe and everything you need to know.
I'm Trey.
Jude: I'm Jude.
How are you doing Trey?
Well, Jude I'm excited because today we are joined by a return guest and
a frequent shout out in this show.
He's quickly becoming the Internet's best friend and a
constant delight around the pod.
We're happy to welcome back, friend Daniel to the show.
Welcome back.
Friend Daniel: Hey guys.
Jude: Welcome Daniel.
Trey: Hey, how's it going?
Friend Daniel: Great to be back.
Thank you.
So I got to say I've been so delighted for this intro ever since your
recent appearance on There Was An Idea our friend of the pod Tara's
episode or Tara's show, I should say.
And she referred to you as friend Daniel as well.
And I immediately texted Jude and I was like, I know what I'm going to say.
The next time friend Daniel is on the podcast.
It tickles me so much that that has taken off
Jude: Well like that like very early on after you joined the discord,
somebody asked are you friend Daniel.
Friend Daniel: Yeah.
So, Tara had her next guest was Danny.
And so it became very confusing.
My identity.
Trey: Well, you know, the last time that we had you on this show, it was during
our Falcon and the winter Soldier run.
I thought it'd be cool to use this time here at the top of the show to check
in with how you've been receiving the latest iterations of the MCU entries.
So we've recently just finished up Loki.
We've had black widow as well, some exciting things coming up with What If...?
And Shang-Chi how's how have you been receiving the MCU are you
enjoying it?
Friend Daniel: Oh, well, you know, if you're on the discord, you know but
Trey: thank you.
Friend Daniel: I have been very much enjoying it.
I mean, it's just, it's you know, I've caught up with you guys.
And I agree with, with Jude and, and I think you said this
Trey too, but that Loki is Loki was the strongest show for me.
I'm kind of, I've, I've been forming my thoughts about it a little bit more, but
just in terms of like cinematic scope and music and the, the, the dialogue and
the action, it was the whole package.
So I could go on and on about Loki, but I'll save that for when we do the kind
of compare and contrast and lessons and stuff, but I really enjoyed it.
And I'm very excited about future Loki installments.
In future movies and future seasons and stuff like that for Black Widow, I did not
see it in the theater, but I watched it on Disney plus and I, I really enjoyed it.
I really enjoyed it.
I haven't watched it again though.
So I haven't done the thinking and analysis and repeating
and rewinding and stuff yet.
But I've read, I've read about it.
And I've listened, obviously listened to you guys.
I listened to Tara's podcast.
There Was An Idea and I've just gotten various perspectives on it.
Jude, the, the latest podcast out from Kermode they talk about it.
Jude: Oh, wow.
Friend Daniel: Yeah.
So they, they talk about it briefly, but I'll just, I'll throw that out there.
The podcast is Kermode on Film and he's a, he's a British film critic.
Hilarious guy loves Christopher Nolan and they have a broad appreciation of Marvel
movies and comic book movies and stuff.
So, and then as far as upcoming projects, well, I just saw that
Hawkeye got a release date.
Trey: Yeah.
Friend Daniel: So I'm excited about that.
And I'm, I I'm very, I'm excited about Shang-Chi every time I haven't seen
the most recent trailer didn't they release another trailer like yesterday.
Trey: They did.
Yes,
Jude: They did.
And I'm embarrassed to admit that I didn't catch it.
Trey: You say embarrassed.
I say strict with your philosophy.
I consider that.
a teaser, like a TV spot.
It was only like a minute long, really
Well, like okay.
Philosophy wise.
Yes.
But like, I was scrolling through YouTube and I saw this thing about
like, as new Shang-Chi trailer released.
Like, I didn't even know until a good 12 hours later.
Friend Daniel: I didn't watch it.
But yeah, the first trailer I was like, huh.
And then the second trailer, the full trailer, not the teaser I was hooked.
So I'm, I'm excited about that.
And then I read, I read some stuff about it.
So very excited about that.
I'm really excited about Spider-Man whatever that's going to be about.
And then I'm super jazzed about the, What If...?
Series very, I love animation.
I always loved What If comics, when I was a kid because they were
one-offs and so you weren't required.
You're just required to know about.
The character like Captain America or the X-Men or whoever you've
got to know their basic story.
And then you could see them playing with the character.
And it was a fun way to be subversive when there were no stakes.
And I remember getting invested in characters and they would kill
them, you know, like they would die, you know, dramatically.
And I was like, oh no, but it's like, it's, it's a one-off.
So it's, it's not going anywhere.
And so I'm really given how subversive it can be, how you can be risky and
take emotional risks and do fun things.
I'm actually.
I'm really excited about it.
I think, I don't know.
I haven't really thought about it out loud that much.
And I'm getting more excited about it.
Just talking about,
Trey: I was going to say, I think you made me excited, just talking
about how excited you were.
Jude: And that's what just two weeks now it's
Trey: August 11th,
Jude: August 11th.
Yeah.
Friend Daniel: And then my last thoughts about everything that's gone on.
And you guys got it.
Cause I, I I've, I've really enjoyed the Assembled episodes you know,
post finales, but the, the Loki listeners, if you haven't watched
the Loki assembled, it is profound.
Like it is, it is they've, they've added something that I
don't remember in the last one.
That is, is is a beautiful touch and it's really good.
So I would highly recommend that if you, if you haven't
Jude: seen it,
It's interesting..
That's probably the best assembled.
Trey: Oh, 100%
Friend Daniel: Yeah.
They've gotten better.
Yes.
I think they've gotten better.
Trey: Well, it feels like there's more of a presentation to Loki than the other two.
And not that there was anything wrong with the other ones, but
there's like a flourish and the Loki Assembled that I really enjoyed.
Friend Daniel: I mean, I'll spoil it.
Yeah.
I mean, it's, it's, it's the voiceover like the voiceover, like,
like Tom Hiddleston voiceover.
It is new.
Yeah.
And, and I can't remember if they have voiceovers, but they don't have a single
voice narrating the story of Loki.
And
Jude: It's like you said, like you said, the story is not just
a, it's not just like a hand holding your way through something.
Like they actually weave a story into the making of.
Friend Daniel: Yeah.
And the meaning the meaning of what this is.
I think it's related to the fact that, you know, Falcon, the winter
soldier I mean, you have, you have Bucky, but I don't know.
It's Loki, Loki is a very strange character in his villain antihero hero.
You know, return to the villain.
He he's he's he has this very strange.
I had no idea about the, the story that he, he was, he was at Comicon and
(Kevin) Feige was like, come out as Loki.
And he comes out and he's lookingat the people, and the fans went wild and I was.
That was back then, you know?
And so that was th th I, I know they were playing because they, I mean,
maybe a wink and a prayer in, in Feige's imagination, you know, maybe someday
we'll do something, but like that, that, that was that was a, that was, he has
good instincts obviously to just like, let's see where this goes, you know?
Jude: It's yeah.
Well, and I remembered Loki or Tom Hiddleston doing that.
I didn't realize that story.
Yeah.
I just didn't know the story behind it.
Trey: It was really cool To get that run-up and framing of it as like,
oh, this was a last minute thing that they decided to do behind the panel.
Friend Daniel: So that's my, my too long verbose.
Jude: No.
Friend Daniel: It's been a lot since.
It's been a lot since since I I've graced your airwaves on your podcast.
So
Jude: Yeah, you came on with Falcon and the Winter Soldier,
not during Loki, although we had this plan before Loki came out.
Friend Daniel: Yeah, yeah.
Jude: So we had this kind of episode topic circled, and then
you were on Tara's pod during Loki.
Trey: Okay.
Yeah.
Well, speaking of this episode, if you've downloaded it, then you've seen that the
title of this episode is What Lessons Can Marvel Learn from the Disney Plus shows,
so the easiest way that we can go through this is just kind of have like a round
table sharing of the different lessons that we've brought here for this episode.
So starting with you, Daniel, what is the first lesson that you think can
be learned from the Disney plus shows?
Friend Daniel: In no particular order?
I think I need to arrive at my lessons through reflection, so we'll get there.
But for now, I will just say something that's excited me about this.
The Disney plus is I feel like I feel the same way, especially with,
with WandaVision and to some extent with Loki but I feel the same way
as I did when I saw Guardians of the Galaxy, because I remember, you
know, Avengers and Iron Man and they were great and they were of a genre.
Right.
And then Guardians of the Galaxy was just blew it up.
It was so different.
And, and it was like, this is incredible.
I felt like they use this opportunity to really take some risks that are bigger.
And, and in a, in a blockbuster movie, when, when you have so much, so many
moving parts and so much money not to say that there isn't there isn't money flowing
through this, but th the, the level of risk taking, and so lessons learned
is, you know, I hope it's paid off.
I think it has for, for Marvel.
And I hope that they continue to, to do that.
And based on kind of stuff that I've read, you know, Oscar Isaacs had like
a cryptic tweet about Moon Knight
Jude: Aw, I didn't see that.
Friend Daniel: I sat, it sounds like they're there.
It was just something like, it's gonna, it's wild, you know, it's
just, yeah, I really think they're gonna, they're gonna keep doing that.
And not in a way that's like edgy or, or, or controversial, but truly like
in an aesthetic sense, risky, you know, like when I, and when I think
of that, I think of like, WandaVision, what the hell are we watching?
You know, it's like what?
I'm literally sitting here watching.
I rewatched, I started rewatching WandaVision
cause my parents hadn't seen it and I was visiting them.
And I was like, you guys, haven't seen this, let's watch it.
And I started to explain the backstory.
I'm like done.
Let's, let's just watch it.
And I'm sitting there and they enjoyed it, but I'm like, we're watching
a black and white fifties comedy.
This is banana.
This is crazy.
So, so, you know, I kinda, it just reminded me, you know, and then with
Loki, it's like, we already had his story and now we're going back and
we're going to like show you a drawer, a desk drawer, full of infinity stones.
This is crazy.
So I I like, I really like that.
I think it's a good venue.
For that.
So that's kind of one that's that's, that's my first thought.
Trey: And I think you're spot on with the risky or the risks
that these shows have taken.
I know at least for us, when we were covering WandaVision, that was
the first thing out of our mouths.
I think each week when we talked about episode one and two and how bold it was
to really lean in to the homages that it was making with the stylized storytelling.
And I think it just continued doing that throughout each of
the three disney plus show.
Friend Daniel: I made a note on this, on this point, it reminded me of my
favorite shows growing up some aspects of my favorite shows growing up and
how they were able to take big risks.
And you can do this in a show format, even though these shows are planned
in a way that, that serialized TV that are like 22 episodes weren't so I'm
thinking specifically of the X-Files and two episodes that stand out to me in
a, in a huge way were Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose and it's it's a brilliant,
very post-modern story that plays with perspective and the, the seams
of near like storytelling it's one of the highest kind of regarded episodes
of the X-Files and it just pushed the boundaries on the traditional narrative
that you'd gotten up to that point.
And then the other, the other one was an episode called bad blood.
Which is it, it's like a vampire episode, but it's really funny.
And it's told from Mulder's perspective, and then it's told
from Scully's perspective and, and, and the stories are different.
Like the details are different, different things happen.
It's, it's very, very funny and very, almost silly.
That's how I, that's kinda how I felt.
Jude: Well, it's funny.
You mentioned we've talked about this Jose Chung's.
Oh, is that isn't that the episode?
Friend Daniel: That's Clyde Brookman yeah.
Jude: Oh, that's Clyde Bruckman?
Yeah.
Or wait,
Friend Daniel: is it sick that I know exactly which season it is?
It's in.
Jude: No, but I, I,
Friend Daniel: Trey, you know how you are with Community I'm
that that way with the X-Files
Trey: How disappointed would you be to find out I've never seen the
X-Files?
Friend Daniel: I, I understand it's Trey, I don't.
There's no disappointment here.
I promise.
Trey: Oh, fantastic!
Friend Daniel: There's no disappointment here.
I probably
Trey: I was going for a rise, I'm genuinely shocked.
Friend Daniel: My podcast, my pod, my podcast list.
I'm behind my podcast list is plenty of TV.
It's it's your loss.
It's your loss
Jude: Jose Chung's From Outer Space.
Friend Daniel: Jose Chung's From Outer Space is a different episode
than the one I'm talking about
Jude: Right.
Friend Daniel: Mine is called Clyde Bruckman's Finale Reprose, which is
the same season, but it's a totally different episode, but yeah, Jose
Chung is another one like that.
Yeah.
It's like very, very weird.
Th then there's there, like in, in Buffy
Jude: In fairness toTrey, in fairness to Trey season three aired in 1996.
Friend Daniel: Oh yeah.
This is ancient
Trey: I would have been five, six years
old, depending on the month.
Friend Daniel: Perfect age to watch this stuff.
Yeah.
But there's like, there's like in Buffy they had like the musical episode.
They had a Zander centric episode in angel, there was a friggin puppet episode
where they get chain turned into puppets.
And so like, I see this in, in that vein where you've got these, these, these TV
shows that had deep fan fan bases where the, the show runners or the writers
took these risks and there were payoffs.
Oh yeah.
I feel like we're getting that here.
And I feel like we're, they're gesturing towards it in, in Thor Love and Thunder.
I feel like we're gonna get this in Thor Love and Thunder and Dr.
Strange, like, I feel like we're, we're going to, it's going to be weird.
Jude: Well, one more episode that came to mind.
Avatar Last Airbender Tales of Ba Sing Se
Friend Daniel: Which remind me that I'm not, I only watch it once
Jude: Tales of Ba Sing Se is the one where they each had their little
vignette of how they spend the day.
Friend Daniel: Oh yeah.
It's a freaking cartoon, like on Nickelodeon and it's like, it's just like
it's so it's, it's, it's really good.
And it's, it's, it's basic writing.
I mean, it's not invented.
New ways of doing things.
They're just, they're adopting storytelling strategies from other
genres and other, other mediums.
It's just really cool.
Like I just, yeah, no, that's, that's good.
That's a good first
Trey: lesson, but what about you, dude?
What's a lesson that can be learned from the Marvel shows.
Jude: I'm going to say for me a lesson this is more like a hope, something
that they, they do in the future.
I would like to see two more episodes.
I it's, and I don't know if it's, I'm just gotten used to kind of that Netflix,
Friend Daniel: you mean like 10 episodes or eight
Jude: episodes, like, right.
Two, two more episodes, 10 episodes instead of eight, which is weird for
one division only because they had eight episodes, but a big part of that is this
idea that they're married to six hours.
And so you had some longer episodes and you had some that were shorter, so that
didn't make an eight episodes, but you really time-wise is roughly the same.
I would say two more episodes.
I, and I, I just got finished watching mayor of east town,
which I just really enjoyed.
And that was, and this is weird because it goes against what I just said, but that
was about seven hours and seven episodes.
So I know it can be done.
I just feel like with what.
They're trying to do with these Disney plus shows.
Two more episodes is something that would, would, would benefit the
Friend Daniel: series.
There'd be, it would give them a little bit more room to breathe.
It really
Jude: would.
It really would.
Well, I mean, I've heard a number of people say this loved to have seen
a little bit more, including I think in the assembled the writer loved to
seen a little bit more of rinse layer.
Yeah.
And, and her story, and you know, that one or two more episodes would
help flesh out some of those things.
Yep.
Same thing with Carly and Falcon, the winter
Trey: soldier, for sure.
I think even to an extent with, with Monica and Wanda vision, like she got
a, she got an episode dedicated to her, but I know towards the end of the
finale, it was almost kind of like she got sidelined for different stories.
So I, I definitely feel that Daniel, I think you hit the nail on the head
of, or no, I believe you said it.
Jude, how you just got used to Netflix or HBO having these
like eight to 10 episode runs.
I think that is the sweet spot and I understand that they're doing it
probably for budgetary reasons just because they are spending a lot,
but six just it's cutting it close.
Friend Daniel: I, I think that they it's, these three series are
experiments and they've worked and I don't think they're going away,
but we've talked about this before.
None of these shows have learned lessons from each other because they were all.
Being produced at the same time.
I think they, they were like, we're going with X or Y or whatever.
There was six hours.
And the, the one thing I will say a, I think the mark of a good show, unless
it can really hit that catharsis, like just the perfect catharsis that leaves
you feeling whole, I want a good show.
We'll leave you wanting more.
But especially with Loki, you're getting a season two and it's different than
like Falcon and winter soldier where, you know, like Carly's story is over.
And, and even if there, even if there is any attention paid to it,
it's, it's, it's over and done.
Whereas Loki story and the characters in it are not done.
Like there were deliberate threads left, open, and that, and, and it, it was good
on the level of it's a good world-building show, but it's also good in levels.
Like we're getting a season two.
So there has to be.
Like meaningful threads left.
Trey: Right?
Well, I think I can jump in with mine because that segues nicely.
So thank you for that set up Daniel.
The lesson that I wanted to bring in this first round is I think the
other three shows the ones that succeeded the most for me were the
ones that treated the episodes.
As a series and not as a movie that's been chopped up.
And that was the feeling I got with Falcon and winter soldier.
Like it had, it had its connective tissues, but there was this feeling of
like watching one long movie and only getting it on a week to week basis.
The one division, I think it told complete stories while leaving enough
to keep us going through the season.
Low-key I think had a wonderful handle on.
And that's what I want to see moving forward with these shows and the reason
this kind of segues off what you were saying, Daniel, is that knowing it's
getting a season two, I think there is maybe, maybe there's some comfort
in that knowing like you don't have to hit everything in this first season,
whether or not the audience knows that I'm sure there's, there's an
understanding going into the production.
Yeah, the lesson that I I'd like to see moving forward with these distinct plus
shows is kind of identifying the format of this week to week, rather than it being
written the AB cadence that we talked about in, in the binge mode for Daredevil,
Friend Daniel: What I hear you saying tray, the way I would interpret
this embrace, embrace the format, like embrace this episodic format.
Like it's it it's, it's not, it's not a six hour movie.
That's this Snyder go.
You know what I mean?
Like that, and.
No, I'm not gonna say it.
So this is, this is, I agree with you about Falco and winter soldier.
Like there was, it was a constant, it was linear more or less.
It was linear.
And it was, it was a, it was a movement through the stories and
the, the beautiful things that we got were the character development,
because they devoted time to it.
But unlike low-key, which had some truly earth shattering like there
were, there were these real kind of cliffhangers that made you revisit
everything that you'd seen before.
And you can mark off, like each of those episodes in the same way
with Wanda vision, you had the, the sitcoms, but then it, it would break
and you go into the real world.
Then you go back on the sit-com and then th the, the, the realities bend.
I think I S I said that.
I think I said this on terrorist pot.
I don't, I don't remember, but when I was contrasting one division with
Loki, one division made the Metta, the, the, the, the, the format
of the show, that Metta aspect in essential aspect of the, of the show.
Loki took that and made it a part of the narrative.
So it was like, you actually take the character out of his context
and then show it to him, you know, and, and then play with that.
Yeah.
I definitely, I think I definitely agree with you, Trey.
I like how I like no,
Trey: and I like the way that you're so succinctly put it
with the embrace, the format.
I think that's a very nice way to package that feeling that I'm
having is just leaning into that these are series focused more on.
Jude: Well, I'm gonna say, it's interesting with one division, you
had that feeling early on, like there was a TV format, but that
was more because of the concept.
And as he got closer and closer to the end and ran the course of that
concept, it, it shifted to that movie field rather than television field.
And so in that way, I don't know if this is the right way to phrase it.
Our one division, especially early on artificially treated it as a movie.
I mean, I'm sorry.
As a TV series.
And, and always want to say artificially, she just going to
Friend Daniel: translate it
Jude: transferred.
Right, right.
Yeah.
And whereas like I'm with, you know, it it's embraced the format.
Right.
Friend Daniel: And Jude, I would say if we can be honest, like it suffered for
that, like by, I'm not saying they made it, they made a poor choice in abandoning.
They had to abandon the sitcom thing.
But the critique of say the finale is that it just fell into the trap
of how you complete a Marvel movie, which is a big fight scene, you know?
And it was like, oh, we're trying to be cinematic, which has,
well, you didn't really have the budget for the, for the fight.
And you know, that wasn't really the point of the story.
It was about her and her grief.
And you spent like 30 seconds on it at the end.
You know what I mean?
And, and said you haven't fallen around the sky.
So, so it, it was, whereas in Loki, there was no, there was
no Big final action scene.
It was a very emotional dance fight.
You know, not Dan.
I mean, it was an elegant fight between these characters who are
having a real disagreement, you know, between Lokey and Sylvia.
They're there.
These two people who are, who are growing closer and have affection for each
other are having a real disagreement.
And it comes out in that carefully choreographed fight.
Well, and
Jude: coming off the civil documentary, this whole idea of
the show being self-acceptance and self-love, and they have this one
last final fight with themselves.
You know, and torn and what is, is, is the best thing to do.
It just works so well, you know, we're and I think I mentioned this on pod.
Like I would love to have seen in one division to have them continue that thread
through what the mysterious ESC kind of scene going through the sitcoms in the end
and make and instill in her, weave that
Friend Daniel: in kind of drawing off of the, the tray where we're at
right now about embracing the format.
I really enjoyed the week to week release and watch and rewatch and discuss.
And obviously like we learned we, the audience learned a grave lesson with Wanda
vision and in terms of like going off the rails and, and, and building expectations
with, you know, perceived whatever.
But that happens in shows.
I mean, I, I, I watched lost as it was happening and the same exact,
like the reason why I, I was really kind of a curmudgeon or a screw.
During that during Wanda vision.
And, you know, I was kind of, I was kind of teasing you about, you know, like,
oh, you know, maybe it's someone else.
You know, and, and I was just like, no, it's not.
It's like just popping that bubble is because I had gone
through that with earlier shows.
But, you know, unlike say, you know, the the earlier Marvel shows where you'd, it
would all drop and show still do this.
So like, you've got the boys, you've got like the Amazon prime shows and
Netflix shows the whole show drops.
And even if you're not going to binge at all, it's kind of,
that's how you consume the show.
I like this, this actually, this experience reminds me more of when
I used to watch TV as a kid and you you'd have to wait each week and watch.
And I appreciated that and I hope that they continue to do that.
I don't, I don't, it must be a win for them in terms of marketing and prep.
Right.
Oh
Trey: yeah.
I mean, the conversations around the show get lengthened just because of
Friend Daniel: that weekly viewing.
Yeah.
So I don't, I don't see, I don't see it going away.
I'm glad the series aren't 22 episodes.
I don't know how you can sustain that.
Jude: Yeah.
Like that's too much.
Trey: I love Marvel.
I love the MCU.
22 episodes would be a lot for me to keep up with,
Jude: well, to bounce off that I would just say embrace the MCU is
one of my lessons learned and I feel like they're going to do that.
And I guess what I mean by that is go ahead and make this required viewing.
And I think they kind of did that at the end of low-key
where you get, he who remains.
I didn't expect it to be him for the same reason, logically, like we didn't
get somebody new in one division.
And I, and I get, there's like, oh, we can do that because there's a
season two, but he who remains king mortis, whatever you want to say
is going to go beyond just low-key.
And I feel like.
This idea of embracing the MCU?
Well, his friend Dana was just saying it right.
Like I was watching last, you know, and, and it reminded me that
television reminded me that same thing in terms of watching TV, being
able to talk about it for a week.
But even if, you know, you're not going to have a season to say one division,
you know, their stories don't necessarily in their, I mean, white vision, right.
Scarlet, witch, even ag of the Harkness, their stories don't end there.
So in that way, I think it's okay to introduce somebody new.
Well, they did that in fucking winter soldier, Val, right?
Yeah.
So I think it would have been okay.
And say for them to say, we're just going to embrace the universe and give you that,
you know, my Festo here that will show up
Friend Daniel: again later.
So like, if I think back to.
To what, to what you're saying.
I know you've been debating and I have been off pod with you guys.
Like, did, do you have to, are these shows required watching?
I don't know how you, you get to the, the, the content that's coming
without having watched low-key.
But like, if you think about like Wanda vision, you've got Scarlet witch, right.
And there's, there's a transformation happening there.
You've got Monica.
Who's absolutely coming back.
You've got an in Falcon, winter soldier, he's captain America that
there that's coming, you know?
No, but however I think you're right.
That in so far as they do embrace the MCU in those smaller ways, certainly in
those, in those shows and in a really big way, what they did with Loki at the end.
I think that, I think it's good.
I think they, I think I also.
I also want to see these characters elsewhere.
So like in, in a kind of reversal of what you're saying, it's like,
okay, we were invested in, in these characters, like Mobius is awesome.
Wren.
Slayer's awesome.
Being at B 15 is awesome.
Sylvia's is awesome.
Like, I want to see these characters interact in, in this broader universe.
That's what made the MTUS Thor with the guardians of the galaxy was brilliant.
It made it like it reinvented Thor, you know what I mean?
Like, and so just having these characters interact, you know, whereas like early
in, in like phase one Ironman kind of stands on its own, but then, you know,
there's this kind of admission like, oh, look like captain America and Thor were
kind of driving towards the Avengers so that you could get them together.
But now we've got these shows that are, are coherent and really stand on
their own in, in entertaining ways.
But I want to see them, you know, elsewhere.
So I'm kind of taking what you said, Jude and.
A little bit.
Does that make sense?
No, it does make
Jude: sense.
It does the
Trey: thing that it's making me feel and you kind of alluded to it with the
way you framed it as like iron man was standalone Thor and captain America,
they were building towards the Avengers and eventually got to this point where
like, Hey, we've got them together now.
So you do get things like Thor and the guardians or captain America,
civil war, and they're together, or a lot more of these crossover
events, Carol and Nick fury.
You can do these interconnected things.
And I think that kind of ties back into what you were saying,
Jude about like embracing the MCU.
Maybe these are just the stepping stones of the shows, getting
more comfortable doing that.
Because you know, I, I think you said it last week.
I want these to be required viewing too.
Like I think it, it just rewards the investment of taking the time to.
Friend Daniel: And they're good.
They're good.
And the characters are entertaining and I want to see them again.
Jude: I mentioned in the beginning of this pod, Hawkeye has this release date.
We know that Julaine is going to show up.
We know we're going to get Kate Bishop rumors.
I'm going to say rumors right now.
Okay.
But I think it's almost confirmed kingpin.
Oh, you show up and Hawkeye.
So we're getting some new characters, but for the most part, we're
following old characters, Ms.
Marvel's going to be the first one where it's directly brand new character.
And so what I'm really curious as the approach of this show of miss
Marvel in terms of, is it going to have the six hour movie feel?
Are they going to go mode more TV series feel cause they're, you're getting an
origin story that will carry later,
Friend Daniel: right?
That's a good point.
I see what you're saying.
Yeah.
The three series we've gotten so far have been operating with fully
established characters and, and Ms.
Marvel, and then like moon night, you know, when that whole hike
she helped the whole, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, you're not worried about that one.
Trey: Well, you eventually
Jude: get to this point touching on him as a lot.
He's
Friend Daniel: awesome.
Yeah.
They're going to be gold.
Trey: I mean, I think it just circles back to your, to your, or bolstering
your points, Jude about embracing it.
Like I think it almost has to, because you're doing these origin stories.
How could it not matter to the connectivity of the movies as well?
Jude: Right.
But I'm also curious of what the impact's going to be on how they did
the storytelling, because there you have an origin you have to wrestle with you.
Can't just jump in like Loki.
We, we mentioned, or, you know, friend Daniel mentioned the, the
meta idea of just I'm going to take him out of his own story.
Make them look at it and then see what happens.
But you can only do that because we know his story.
There's a story in place.
Same thing with Wanda vision, you can go back and mine, the little details from
age of Ultron and those types of things to kind of build and flesh out a story.
Whereas this is a story from scratch
Friend Daniel: in Falcon, winter soldier.
Ache.
There's a massive question, mark.
Coming off of end game.
You know, this picks up from that literally is answering the question.
W w what does Sam do, you know, in, in what, how do salmon Bucky deal
with the fact that their friend has gone and yeah, that I, I hadn't
thought about that Jude very much.
It's a really good,
Trey: good
Jude: point.
Cool,
Trey: man, it's been a while since we've dropped a Nick Sandy,
like that, bringing it back.
Jude: Yeah, no doubt in there,
Friend Daniel: Trey.
I don't know why I thought of you, but mostly because I'm watching
community and now I know where you get the phrase end tag from, but the the
we've been, we've been very positive.
Well, no, I, I feel like we've been very measured, but leaning on the positive,
but I think kind of critically, and I know you guys agree with me is like, we, we, we
all kind of agree that their use of Intacs in or make credit scenes or whatever
in these were, were either confusing.
Obviously there was important information revealed in them and that that's a
departure from how they've kind of functioned in the past, either as kind
of like humor or connecting it to a future installment, et cetera, et cetera.
So a tease, you know, it's, it's.
At best we've been like, huh.
You know, or, you know, like, like, like what, like no, you
know, or her, or just interested in your thoughts about that guys?
Trey: Yeah.
I mean, that's 100%.
The next lesson that I was going to bring is the Intacs
definitely need to be readdressed.
You know, we talked about it a little bit with Loki, especially when Rob Logan
was on and you know, my feelings just to state it clearly the Intacs for me,
feel like they either are a humorous, just kind of extraneous little bit that
has nothing to do with the snow steaks.
Right.
Group dancing you know, just stuff like that.
The, the aunt playing drums and ant man, and the wasp though, that does
have an undertone of other things it's mainly just humorous or the other route.
I think
Jude: both of them though, both of those that you mentioned also had an
in tag that had a connective tissue
Friend Daniel: as well.
There were multiple end tags.
Well, that's what I
Trey: was going to say.
Like the, the, the other.
I think successful use of them is that laying the groundwork for what comes next?
I think the problem that the Disney plus shows got into is they were using
pertinent information to the story within the show that I think shouldn't have
been relegated to like the post credit
Friend Daniel: scenes creating the were creating cliffhangers.
I mean, it was like, like with the, with the Lokeys it's like you, you P you prune
our Loki and then you end the episode.
That's a cliffhanger what's going to happen.
Is he dead?
Or do you, do you think maybe he's alive, but you don't know.
And then you, you reveal that he's not, but you reveal these other Loki's.
So we talk about that.
Like, I understand why they do it.
And not because they didn't want people to think he wasn't dead, but they wanted
to introduce the Lokeys so that people could talk about them for the week.
That's my opinion about that.
I think that's why they, that, that that's probably, I can understand that
choice even though I think narrative.
I think it's more impactful to like, put that off for a week, whether or
not we've killed our main character, but it supports what you're saying
Trey about like you put very pertinent information in a mid credit scene.
Like, well, shoot, I need a way to get us to just watch the credits.
Is that all all?
Is that just where we are?
We are we're at now.
Like, I don't know.
I watched credits anyway, cause they're good.
Well, I mean,
Trey: I went back through to, to watch all the intaglio for the show so far,
and I was shocked to be reminded.
We don't learn that director Hayward is arrested and told the post credit scene.
It's like a little one-off thing of seeing him be putting in a car,
why Monica is being pulled away.
And like that's one of your main antagonist.
And like that's something that needs to be in the show.
Rather than thought.
Jude: Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and we've, we talked about the tag problem all the way back to Wanda vision.
I think it was the snoopers going to Snoop one.
Yeah.
You know, which was a good Intacct, but it was like, it was like, why not just,
why couldn't that be in the show, but it was, it felt like you're going to
start the show with her captured and you need to figure out a way to do it.
Right.
Whereas you could've had the same feeling and effect, I guess, as an
audience on the audience, by having that within the show itself, you know,
intercutting that within what's going on.
Friend Daniel: Were, were there any other tray, were, were there
any other end tags and Loki Loki?
No,
Trey: it was the group shot.
And the season two announcement, which is honestly a step above the vendor's trailer
and captain America, the first set, not
Friend Daniel: even an end tag,
Jude: I didn't consider that intact.
I was disappointed.
I didn't tell it.
Wasn't intact.
Friend Daniel: I mean, I was pleasantly surprised.
I mean, I would have liked an intact though.
I felt like we deserved it.
You know what they could
Jude: have done, you know, what they really could have done.
You could have, and I'm not saying this is the best way to go, but
it would have been consistent with the way they're treating in tags.
The reveal of Mobius in hunter 15, not knowing Logan.
And then locally seeing the statue of king.
Friend Daniel: That was the, that would be the end tag.
Yeah.
I know.
I don't know.
I thought it was perfect.
Well, I'm
Jude: torn because I agree.
Like, I don't think
Friend Daniel: you're saying like, if, if they're being
Jude: consistent, if they're being consistent with how they're
Friend Daniel: doing, we would've thought it was crap.
We would've thought it was crappy, but at least you're consistently crap.
Trey: Oh no, I totally see what you mean.
Like I love, I love the way he was handled, but it would have felt right
in line if they would have done that.
Yeah.
Friend Daniel: And then, and then at the end tag, the Intex in a Falcon
winter soldier one, I remember.
John Walker making his shield.
Right.
Trey: And the other one was the power broker coming out of the
hearing where she's been reinstated.
Right.
And she's like, super soldiers are off the menu, but we're about to get access
to government weapons and stuff like that.
And then the slight
Friend Daniel: smile, whereas the, there was, but it wasn't, it wasn't.
Oh, but Lee, the Patriot, right.
Him, him or us agent him becoming us agent that was in the episode, right?
Yes.
That's that feels like an end tag, right?
Yes.
Jude: Are we flipping them?
Friend Daniel: I know I'm I'm Trey when watched him.
So I'm, I'm certain that that were introduced to USC.
In the episode that I feel like
Jude: belongs.
So basically, yeah.
So basically they should have flipped.
Those were so smart.
Friend Daniel: Well,
Trey: well, you know what?
I forgot.
I had wrote this a little bit that I forgot to do at the top.
You know, we're so frequently putting our writer's hat on whenever we do
week to week episodes this week, we're putting our studio execs hat on.
Yes.
Jude: Yeah.
Can I, can I throw out a small, no, I'm not gonna say small.
A rumor that I heard about the, the PowerBroker thing is we're
talking about that in the tags, even though it has, if right.
Potential spoilers down the line, I'll
Trey: say yes, but like, I guess, you know, if you're avoiding it,
scroll ahead for like 30, 40 seconds.
Okay.
Jude: Okay.
Oh man.
Now, now I'm not sure.
Cause it connects
Friend Daniel: to Spiderman.
Okay.
Don't wait.
Don't say it well, just cut it out and then say it
Jude: again.
I'll drop it.
Forget
Friend Daniel: it.
I'll drop it.
Well, I want to know what it is.
I've been sitting on this, but I'll I'll, this is the second
rumor that you've dropped in this.
This is it's true.
Bad Jude.
You did
Trey: the
Friend Daniel: kingpin one.
Well, that's all over the news.
I feel like that's over.
They've been reporting that
Jude: and like, and like the only reason why I felt comfortable bringing
it up is because Vincent is that
Friend Daniel: saying that
Trey: right?
Trey, Vincent and Vincent done off for you.
And I know this because this is a running bit
now it's your turn to get it wrong.
Jude: So so yeah, but no, like.
I think either is retweeted or liked and he's pretty active on Twitter.
Yeah.
An article or something about the rumor that it could be interpreted as like how
he just, you know, wants it to happen.
But people are interpreting it as a confirmation.
Friend Daniel: Well, I'm going to find this now.
Yeah.
Trey: I'm very curious about the Spiderman thing.
Jude: Now I'll tell you what I'll tell you off.
I'll tell you when we're done recording.
Friend Daniel: Okay, cool.
So another lesson that I was thinking about was just a lot of the production
aspects of the, of the shows, but especially with Loki was the, it
gets connected with the risk-taking, but the music was tremendous.
And so I, and, and I've gone and listened to look.
I enjoyed listening to the Falcon of the winter, winter soldier
soundtrack more than I expected.
I, and that caused me to kind of go back and listen to some of the soundtracks.
The scores of other movies, but but Loki's elevate was elevated and
it was very moving at the, at the moments when it like good music.
Signals good music follows the, the, the, the story.
It doesn't dictate it in, in my opinion.
And so it just, it just, it, it was extremely moving and fun.
And there's a meme that I posted on discord, or maybe I sent it to
you, but it's like, Hey, you know, composer, like, we need a, we need
a an outro for the, for, for Loki.
And it shows the person like, like jumping on a piano, that's on fire, you know,
on the ocean or something like that.
That's like, that's like, it's like, Hey, we just need an outro for, for for the,
for the epic, for this episode of Loki.
And it's like, like the piano on fire.
It's just like, it just totally like, like blew.
It blew me away.
I was like, whoa.
You know, I remember watching the end credits two or three times.
So I thought that was a great investment.
Bye you don't see that often.
This is my point.
See, I told you Trey, it takes me a little while to get there.
This is my point.
They may, they clearly made a unique investment in their scoring on low-key.
And I want to see more of that, more of that, because
you rarely see a show, right?
New and credits music for every episode, it just doesn't happen.
It's just, it's not the it's not standard practice.
Unless you're choosing like true blood used to choose used to, they used to name
their episodes after song lyrics, and then the song would play at the end of
the show and it was, it was relevant and it was cool, but most shows play like a
standard, you know, upbeat or whatever, you know, law and order or something.
This, this was.
And, and, and I'm fairly certain that.
One division and one division barely had a score at the end.
It was a very dark ominous, you know, but it was the same thing every time I think.
Jude: Yeah.
One divisions intro outro.
Yeah.
Wonder I was gonna say one division outro was the same each time.
Yes.
And then the intro is different, but that was a function of
Friend Daniel: the whole storytelling that was straight up storytelling.
Jude: The sitcom format.
Yeah.
Friend Daniel: And, and low-key, it was just for the, it was
just for the sake of it.
I love that.
I think that's awesome.
It speaks to the aesthetic of the show in the sense that it
takes aesthetics in themselves.
It's like, this is good in itself.
It's not it's it's it actually it's excessive.
And it's it's in line with Loki.
Jude: Well, what does the symbol say?
Loki plays all
Friend Daniel: the keys, right?
Plays.
That was, oh my gosh.
Yeah.
Yeah, that show he plays all the keys.
So, I mean, that's, it, it was, it was, it was indulgent.
It wasn't excessive because excessive denotes, it was a little too much,
it was indulgent like a big bowl of ice cream, you know, or something,
something you shouldn't have too much of.
It was indulgent and I love indulgent.
I love big fat books.
Like I love reading like thousand page books.
That was, that was, that's what you get with low-key.
So maybe we won't see it in the future because because it's not
in character with what we're, what we're getting, but that's definitely,
Jude: but it works so well.
It you're right.
The end of an episode would leave you a particular feeling and
they wouldn't take you out of the feeling with the outro music
Friend Daniel: they kept you in and then they, but you also saw it with
the, the, the, the care for the, the unique aesthetic of the place.
Of the TVA of the of the rocks cart setting of the Citadel they were
of momentous was, was mind blowing.
And that's not too, that's not, I'm not trying to take away from the very
careful, wonderful work that was done on Falcon, winter, soldier, and one division.
It just, maybe it speaks to my imagination more.
It speaks more to my imagination.
It was indulgent.
Yeah,
Trey: I think, cause you're definitely right.
The, the steps they took with Loki in the music created that tailored experience,
the way it changed on, you know, at the end of the episode, but you know, you're
echoing one of the things I wrote down, I think all three of the series had great
music and it seems like it's a great lesson moving forward to keep investing.
As you said with, with the attention to that music, because that was something
that I remember reading as a very common criticism with the MCU, like outside of
few of the recognizable of interesting, maybe this could be just because I'm
the captain America fan the winter soldier one always stuck out to me.
Other than that, there wasn't really a lot of recognizable ones in the MCU.
And the fact that.
Three Disney plus shows have come in and they have been a lot more identifiable,
I think, as a great, hopefully continued lesson for not only Disney plus shows
just the Marvel studios moving forward.
Yeah,
Friend Daniel: I think that absolutely.
In, in like in picking up in what you're saying, Trey, I think that each, each of
these shows had its own unique flavor.
And I think it's fair to say that Falcon with winter soldier was definitely playing
to that more traditional Marvel movie.
It's definitely what you were getting.
One division, very unique in his character.
Low-key very unique in its character.
My lesson, my, my, my hope with Marvel is that they, they continue
to let their creative teams do that and make, make them not formulaic,
I guess that's to make it crass.
Like I don't, I, that was actually one of my fears going into this
was, was that they were going to be, they were just going to be similar.
No.
Jude: Well, I'm wondering if that's just going to be a
trend for the MCU in general.
And, and it's hard to judge right now only because I'm thinking
about how wild we expect Dr.
Strange and Spiderman Noah home to be we have Sean cheek coming out and black
widow like that movie, as much as I agree, like, oh, we should've had it
sooner in terms of a black widow movie.
I agree that we don't get that movie, that same movie if it was sooner.
And I think that part of that is that comfortability.
You almost, you know, we're, we're starting to see of letting
these creators create and get a little bit more leeway with their
style among the shared universe.
Friend Daniel: I see what you're saying, dude, as it relates to black widow, I
see what you're saying, that that kind of unique stamp and I mean, there in the
Jude: sheriffs are a perfect place to do these Disney plus shows.
Perfect place to do
Friend Daniel: that.
Yeah.
Well,
Trey: yeah.
I think that is a good swath of lessons to be learned from these Disney plus shows.
So we're going to move into this next section, which is simply,
which of the three shows is the closest model of your examples.
I have a feeling based on the enthusiasm, but I'll go ahead and ask Daniel, which
one is the one that executes it closely?
Friend Daniel: Low-key yeah.
And that's just because I think I identified it there at the end.
Of my last point is, is the, the, the specific aesthetic and feel of Loki, what
it's trying to do the specific content to about self-acceptance and the radical way
in which it was operating narratively, each episode, kind of undercutting,
undercutting, what was quote true before?
Like it, it would present itself coherently.
I thought mostly Jude.
And and and, and then, and then it would, it would, it would pull the rug out.
To, to further the story, but it was mind-bending and it used
inter used interlude episodes.
You guys call it AB well, you mentioned,
Jude: you say interlude, you mentioned it on Ontario's pod
Friend Daniel: spot.
It's her word?
She, she introduced that when she was when she had her guests ch on and I talked
about it because I thought it was such a great concept to help me understand.
What was going on in episode three.
Jude: Right.
But it, it, it just the way you, the way you spoke about it on terrace pod was
it was in the context of music, right?
Friend Daniel: Yeah.
And I've also seen that concept used in certain theology, monographs and
philosophy books, you know, like, like arguments that people make.
They will have a chapter.
That's an interlude where they introduce something that seems out of left field,
but it's, it's, it's like it's a way of playing the motif of your argument
using, using something that, that seems to be kind of out there, but
Jude: Gladwell so
Friend Daniel: much.
Why?
Because he does the interlude.
What do you mean?
Jude: That's his whole style to take seemingly well, I mean,
this is his whole style, right?
As a deconstructionist, let's just take this whole seemingly left-field
things that you're like, what am I, what are we to and talking about this?
And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, okay.
Yeah, yeah,
Friend Daniel: yeah.
He's he's I love Malcolm Gladwell, but he's too cute by half.
Like sometimes like he's, he's a little excessive.
Yeah.
He's excessive.
And he's a bit, he's a bit, he's got the journalistic flat.
He leans more not to knock journalists.
I would say he's got the, he's a show.
He's a bit of showman, but he's, he's he's certainly fun and makes you think.
But but yeah, so that's quick answer Loki in terms of what was the most
satisfying for me, but in, I will say we can't truly compare Loki to the other
two CS series until low-key has done so until we get a true series finale,
we cannot, it, we can't compare it to the other series and maybe it's in
comparable because those were limited series and low-key got multiple seasons
where they could, they could do a season, learn lessons and then produce
another season that in itself, you can't, you know, it's not a limited series.
However, I've always maintained.
It's very difficult to end a series.
Very difficult, like and to do it in a way that's satisfying and that, that you're
never going to make people have everybody happy, but Loki did not have to confront
that issue because it is not over.
And so you can't, you can't, I really don't think it's, it's possible
to involve, involve Loki in that conversation that we had about this,
the series finale of, of Falcon, winter soldier, and one division,
because it's, it's, it's not over yet.
There were deliberate threads left, open.
So characters resolved in, in one division and in Falcon when the
soldier that did not resolve in Loki Sylvie's character is not there.
There's like a big question, mark, hanging on her on rent Slayer.
To some extent on low-key, you know, has just experienced this betrayal, you
know but we're going to see more so, so
Jude: yeah.
Well, I'm going to say, go back and say, that's the problem with not two things,
not embracing the MCU fully and not embracing the TV format, just because.
If, you know, this story is going to continue in the universe.
And as a limited series, I think you lean into that roll into it, and you
don't feel the pressure of having to complete it, like complete your story
here, knowing that I have this story and it's done, but it's clearly going to
continue on elsewhere and that's okay.
And I think that the problem with treating it like a six hour movie or
chopped up, it just didn't lend itself to that because I mentioned earlier, like
I just finished watching that mayor of east town, which I thoroughly enjoyed.
That's a limited series and they ended it well, you know, it's possible to do.
Yeah.
It's unbelievably possible.
We've been the TV miniseries.
We've been doing it for a long time.
Yeah.
Friend Daniel: What do you, so what do you guys I'll present
the question to you guys?
Jude: Just the metaphor of MCU fatigue in the truck and
Falcon pushing back against it.
Whereas the Disney plus shows come in.
Friend Daniel: I
Jude: had to get it in there.
Yeah, no, I agree with you that it's low-key but I also agree with
you to say low-key probably had the advantage in the season too.
Trey: Yeah, no, I, I think you kind of shed some light on that for me as well.
Daniel, when you talked about how it's, it's not a fair comparison for Loki and
the other two shows, given that it has that continuation to the next season.
So the way you phrase it, Jude with that, an unfair advantage is kind of where
Jude: I'm at now.
Even with that in mind.
W w before knowing that Logan was going to have a season two, each
episode of Loki felt like a proper end, like you would get with a TV series.
Yeah.
And so before knowing that, and just the experience of watching it,
regardless of my feelings and bogged down in mechanics and all of that, at
the end of each episode, it felt like the end of an episode, and we're going
to wait a week for the next episode.
And so while that is an advantage, Loki clearly did that better.
Friend Daniel: Yeah.
I agree that the, the best example of that for me is episode three, when
we're all watching, waiting for them to get off the planet or something.
And it's just over there looking up, it blows up Sylvie turns around
and walks away and it's over.
And you're like, you don't do this to us.
What are you, what are you doing?
I mean, that's not.
That's geez.
I mean, it was, it was, and, and it also spoke to how riveting that episode was
in terms of like, it was, it was heavy dialogue, which was very interesting.
And then this like one quote, one shot panned, you know, panning
shot that like, you know, running, running through this town.
And then it's just like over, you know, I, I was, I was on the edge of my seat.
Jude: Well, I'd say the same thing when Moebius and Loki got pruned and
undercutting that moment with the intact.
Yeah.
Like, like they were able to pull the rug out from under us and expectations.
It's like, oh man.
Yeah.
I
Friend Daniel: thought they killed them because for two reasons, one,
they had already killed Moebius.
So they foreshadowed it.
The state, they foreshadowed the stakes mobi for me.
Moebius.
Character arc had completed.
I think I talked about this in Tara's pod.
He had just completely flipped and betrayed Brent Slayer and freed low-key
and was like, you've been lying to us.
His character story had had resolved.
And so I was like, oh, he's dead.
You know?
Cause he's like, he, he, he hasn't more function.
And then, and they, and they did it.
So, so I was like, wow.
And then when it happened to low-key, I was like, oh my gosh,
they totally did the same thing.
And also he, he, in his mind had cared.
He cared about Sylvie, I guess I'm, I'm talking myself out of it though.
If he had said, I love you or I care about you and she heard it,
but he didn't actually say it.
So, no, they didn't say, you know, if he had said it and then been
pruned and he was dead and now the.
With Sylvie and it's about Sylvie.
Yeah, but but I, I, I agree Jude with that, with that characterization,
you know, and, and, and episode two, when they, when they blew up the
timeline, when, when she said all the, the, the charges off and blew
up the timeline, which, which I think that I can forgive them of that now,
because it was a foreshadowing of the final scene when the actual timeline.
Like, like blows up, you know, with Kang,
Jude: you know, and I'm sure I'm thinking through one division, it's
hard to tell because so many episodes in the beginning had that sitcom format.
Right.
And then you start to, and they played with that to take you in and
out of the show and even where you roll the credits, but the credits got
interrupted with the eighties format, you know, and, and you got sucked
in, in faculty, the winter soldier.
I feel like man, the only episode that really comes to mind where I, the ending
of that you get, that kind of feeling was when the Wakandans showed up.
But that's the only ending right now that sticks out to me.
I'm sitting
Friend Daniel: here
Jude: thinking, yeah.
I mean, the only other that I can think of the one where
Friend Daniel: they kills that guy in the street.
Yeah.
But that was just, that was just brutal.
Right.
You know, that was just brutal.
Yeah.
It wasn't like, it wasn't like a, it was just a brutal and then it was like, oh
Jude: yeah.
But in the terms of like, just yeah.
Yeah.
So that's a good one.
Those two.
Friend Daniel: Yeah.
It was memorable.
So yeah.
What about what about you, Trey?
Yeah, I
Trey: mean, it's my answers low-key as far as the, yeah, examples given throughout
the episode, it's just that one, I think ticks all the boxes of the lessons that
I want to see continued moving forward.
Well, I think that is going to do it for these lessons learned, but before
we wrap up, we do want to do one little fun question, which is if Disney plus
existed through the infinity saga, what show would you pitch to Marvel?
I, I can just say, at least for me, I would have loved to have seen a show
in between age of Ultron and civil war as maybe not necessarily like like I,
the only word come to mind is training montage, but seeing that new quote unquote
Avengers team start to really gel because you had that ending shot with Falcon,
with vision Scarlet witch, and like the quote unquote new adventures, I think it
would have made civil war that much more impactful if we would have gotten to get
close to those characters a little bit
Jude: more.
Yeah.
I was thinking like, you know, a Hawkeye stay at home.
Dad runs a local bowling alley.
You know, on the farm?
No.
Oh, that might be interesting.
God, I know that that's where it's difficult where my first idea feels so
generic and probably why I'm better as a backseat writer, executives, actual
writer, executive cause part of me.
Well, and I'm wondering if also would, just because we haven't finished and
we have a pretty cool, you know, field, no matter what it is right now, the
thing that keep coming back to is I love to see Theranose attack on Nova.
Oh.
To get the power stone, not the power stone, the, a space, the space stone.
Well, I guess, I guess he had, yeah, no, it was the space stone.
Yeah.
Friend Daniel: There's two ways to think about this question.
One is.
To imagine gaps in the story, right.
That you could fill in or, you know, and like, so I'm thinking, was it you guys who
talked about, like, someone talked about like a series where you follow is it Luis
and man and might've been me like, yeah.
It just like, I was, I'm looking at my Disney plus app and
I'm looking at all the movies
Jude: 1, 2, 3, 4.
Friend Daniel: Yeah.
And I'm like, it must've been a question of the week or something, but then
it's like, you know, that would be it.
Maybe it was the same question, Trey, like what Disney plus show would you like to
see back in the summer of 2020 when you guys, when we were starved of content, but
like, but like I was thinking like, are we getting a group cartoon or something?
Yes, I am.
I want to see, I want to see that I thought of guardians and I was like,
oh, I'd love to see like a rocket.
Cartoon or like a rocket group series.
I think that would be very, very satisfying to me because they they're
hilarious, but they can do emotional now.
Maybe they need humans to, to, to, to cipher that.
But that's something that I was thinking.
But back to my original point, like it's either something that is fills
the gaps or that looks at what we see from a different perspective, maybe.
Right.
Trey: The way you categorize that as like either filling in the gaps or from
a different perspective, which would be
Friend Daniel: really, really
Jude: cool.
Hmm.
See different perspective.
What would I want fleshed out
Friend Daniel: or like what you were saying, Jude, I know you're
joking, but like, you know, like a different format, right.
You know, like, like, like a risk, a risky wild take on.
On something.
Well, you could go
Jude: back.
Friend Daniel: Oh, wow.
Oh my gosh.
The winter soldier, the winter soldier.
Yeah.
The winter soldier that I want to see that series.
I want to see that series.
Jude: Well, so you can go back cause they didn't hit me and they clearly established
Hank Pym acting as ant man younger.
And you could give kind of adventures of man and wash Janet van Dyne.
That would be
Trey: fantastic.
Jude: I still think, I still think the green acres Hawkeye would be fun though.
You, you can just see where he breaks the tractor, where Tony has to fix it because
he doesn't know what he's doing with it.
Friend Daniel: So I remember when, when Wanda vision started and then when
we were in the thick of Falcon, when the soldier we talked about the post.
Blip world the, the, like the blip, like the what?
Like what happened?
Like the five-year gap?
Yeah.
The five-year gap, like stuff happened.
That'd be really, really cool stuff
Jude: happened.
What I feel like, I know Elitch's answer.
Would we want an agents of sword show kind of build in
right there up to one division?
Friend Daniel: I was, I was on the discord during that, when
I was listening to that pod.
Yeah.
Harsh, harsh on a for sure.
Jude: Yes.
Yeah.
Well, you know what?
She, not only she came in swinging there's stuff.
There's some swing she made before we even started recording.
They didn't even make it.
Friend Daniel: I can understand though.
Cause when, when that show first started, I was quite invested in it.
And it was definitely connected to the MCO.
Yes.
It was written by Jaya with like the early seasons were written or at least
conceived by Josh Sweden with his brother.
Yeah.
And, and then, and then there was a falling out or whatever, and just,
it didn't, you know, they stopped and now it's officially not cannon.
And so I could see that that's that's that leaves some, some bad, bad mojo.
Trey: Yeah.
Well, I think that's going to do it for this episode, friend, Daniel.
I just want to say thank you so much for joining us.
It has been an
Friend Daniel: absolute blast.
It's a pleasure to be here anytime.
This is a fun way.
I've this is my first Dematic episode.
I really like your approach here.
So I'm very, very happy to be here to talk about this and to kind of look back on
these three shows and think about what.
Well, we did.
I hope we haven't, it's not like I'm recency bias you know with
low-key, but I do think I do.
I feel, I feel good about it would be interesting to return to this
and like a year and, and think about, you know, where we are, but,
Jude: well, Moonlight, cause that'll be, I guess the one where do they really learn?
You know, do they truly learn from these shows?
Yeah.
Friend Daniel: Yeah.
So that'll be the first real
Trey: test of of the Disney
Friend Daniel: plus shows.
Jude: Although I have a feeling we might be able to find a way to get you
on before a year from now and midnight.
I hope so.
Friend Daniel: We'll see.
Trey: That'll be a lot of catching up
Friend Daniel: on everything in the MCU if we wait that long, but we'll see.
We'll see if, if, if something happens.
Yeah.
Trey: If you want to keep up with more of the musings of friend Daniel, you
can always find them in our discord that if you want to comment or have any
questions about this episode, you can always reach us at MC you need to know
on Twitter and Instagram, or if you'd like to join the discord, as we were
just talking about, you can find a link.
In the show notes as well.
Jude: Once you get to the discord, make sure you go to the
role, assign click on the emoji.
It will give you access to all our spoiler channels on your
podcast, catcher of choice.
Make sure you follow us, leave a rating and review.
It was a huge help for us in the feedback and the best thing you can
do for us to share with a friend.
Yeah.
Trey: We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy for the use of our theme song, which
is his rendition of the Avengers theme.
You play more of his work on his SoundCloud, which is linked
in the show notes as well.
All right, that's going to do it.
Thank you so much for listening and June Daniel.
Thank you so much for doing this.
Jude: Thank you tray.
Thank you,
Friend Daniel: Daniel.
Thank
Trey: you.
We'll see you all
Friend Daniel: next week.
Hey, Trey.
Yeah.
Is there a outline?
Yes.
I emailed
Trey: it to you.
Friend Daniel: Is it in the email?
Trey: Let me see.
I thought I emailed
Friend Daniel: it to you.
Is it in, is it in the invite?
It was, I
Trey: sent it the same.
Excuse me.
I sent it the same night that I did the remotely, but let me double
Friend Daniel: check.
Maybe I got into junk on
Trey: that.
Hurts my feelings.
No no that was on me.
I'm sorry.
I did not send it.
I knew you had one.
All right.
I just sent it now.
It's pretty, it's pretty standard at, since it's, since we're all
just bringing our own lessons, I figured we could just kind of do
like a round table sharing thing.
I sent you the wrong one.
Friend Daniel: Can you send me the template?
Jude: Well, they're all named template.
He hasn't
Friend Daniel: started Nate renaming.
Oh, you're one of those
Trey: dude.
Jared has been very great, but he also understands that I'm a
monster when it comes to yeah.
Covered
Friend Daniel: in icons.
We're not going to go that
Trey: far.
Friend Daniel: Yeah.
Okay.
A lot of judgment here.
It's
Jude: fun.
My desktop is covered in icons.
I've gotten better though, especially for the pod about better naming conventions.
Trey: Okay.
Now you should have the template out.