Spencer Horn 00:10 - 00:37 Welcome to Teams Unleashed, the podcast where we explore what it really takes to unlock the performance and potential of teams. I'm your host, Spencer Horn, President of Team Coaching International. One of the biggest mistakes I see, whether it's leader, you know, any leader, or even experienced coaches, is this. The idea that teams need to move fast, right out of the gate. Spencer Horn 00:37 - 01:06 Jump into the work, start solving problems, get results. But what if that's actually the reason so many teams struggle? In today's episode, we are going to challenge that assumption. My guest, Peter Hoard, all the way from Sweden, who brings over 20 years of experience working with executive and specialist teams across 50 different countries. Spencer Horn 01:05 - 01:38 He's also been part of the work with International Coaching Federation that has helped shape the team coaching core competencies. Peter has been seen again and again, teams that fail, not because of lack of effort. or capability, they fail because they weren't set up for success in the first place. So we're gonna talk about the different motalities between team development, from team building to team coaching, and where things start to break down. Spencer Horn 01:39 - 01:55 And more importantly, what it actually takes to get the foundation right, because speed isn't king at the beginning, patience is. And when a team is set up the right way, they don't just perform better, they get faster. Peter, welcome to the show. Peter Hård 01:57 - 02:00 Thank you, Spencer. It's a pleasure to be here again with you. Spencer Horn 02:00 - 02:05 What's the last time we saw each other live in Doha? Peter Hård 02:07 - 02:16 Yeah, Doha and Qatar a couple of, maybe one and a half month ago, just five days before things started to happen in that region. Spencer Horn 02:16 - 02:34 Yeah, we were able to get out, but I'm so disappointed that some of the work you and I have been able to do is on hold. I've got to see your absolute brilliance in working with teams. It was such a great experience with you. We'll talk about co-coaching as we go today. Spencer Horn 02:34 - 02:57 But you have so many years of experience, worked with major organizations, BMW, Coca-Cola, Mercedes. I mean, major organizations all over Europe, Asia, US, Middle East. You have worked with companies that are based all over the world. And you have seen so many different things. Spencer Horn 02:57 - 03:21 And so I'm so excited because Many of our listeners, our coaches, are coaches that are learning about team coaching, that want to understand it. Some of them are already team coaching. I know you've been working with certifying team coaches here even just the last three days. And hopefully some of your candidates are listening today and are going to learn more from you. Spencer Horn 03:22 - 03:37 But I'd like to start off with this question. You know, you've been involved in shaping the ICF team coaching core competencies. So how do you define team coaching today? And how is it different from what many people think it is? Peter Hård 03:39 - 04:20 Yeah, I hear quite often when I speak to leaders about coaching their teams, they say, you know, you can come and tell us what to do and provide some plans and things for us so we just can follow that. I said, that's not coaching, that's sports coaching or team building or something in between or something else. Because team coaching is also defined, we did that work with ICF, it's defined as a partnership with clients in a thought-provoking, creative process. that helps them to maximize their potential, both as individuals and as professional teams. Peter Hård 04:20 - 04:41 So it's that partnership we're looking for. It's nothing you do, you know, once. If you do a team building event, you go rafting or falling from tables or air, hot air ballooning or whatever you do, it doesn't have nothing to do with productivity increase. So it's more like hope, going to the gym once and hope for muscles, I usually say. Peter Hård 04:41 - 05:09 So if you want to invest, if you want to do something that is sustainable, and long term, and creating high productivity, high positivity, and high performance, you need to work over time. So team coaching is a longer process. It means also that the team eventually take over and owns what they have produced during that process. It's not a one off event, and not not any of the other modalities. Spencer Horn 05:09 - 05:26 So I love that distinction. I was actually just talking to a sports coach in the football arena yesterday, and we were talking about that very thing. You're exactly right. I said, the kind of coaching I do is very different than what you do. Spencer Horn 05:26 - 05:48 You're saying, here's how you block. Here's how you do it. Instead, we, I love the word co-create, and to me that embodies the word of partnership that you're talking about, because we are partnering with them to create the results that they want. And quite frankly, the team does that. Spencer Horn 05:48 - 06:01 The co-creation is we provide the environment for them to actually do that. And it's not you coming in and saying, you do this, this, and this, and you'll be successful. How do you do that? How do you create that? Peter Hård 06:01 - 06:18 Well, I think what we used to say is that we try to help them by creating a safe container so that they can have the candid conversation they need to have. So we cannot just rush into that. We have to sow some seeds. We have to plant some ideas. Peter Hård 06:18 - 06:45 We have to trial them to see how they work currently and then sort of take that down to bits and pieces and say, what's working, what's not working for you. We're trying to mirror what we see back to them so they recognize themselves and finally understand we cannot do this anymore. We have to change our way of working and a way of partnering with each other. So by just early on, and you remember, we did that in Qatar, we put them into an exercise. Peter Hård 06:45 - 06:57 And after what we have in the brief, and quite often we hear, why haven't we worked this way before? You know, why are we, why are we still doing things that we did back then? And no, it doesn't work. And then we wonder how. Peter Hård 06:58 - 07:17 And so it's just this small steps. And this is what we mean by the patience, we have to be patient, we cannot just rush in. And either for us, hope for success immediately, we need to see where they are, get that zero base, get them ready to buy into team coaching and then take step by step until they're ready to fly. Spencer Horn 07:17 - 07:41 Right, and you gave the example of going to the gym. I mean, I need to go to the gym because I have, for over months and years, eaten wrong, exercised wrong, and now I can't expect that that is all undone in one session. So they have... maybe come from a place where they at one point were high performing or been able to produce the results they want. Spencer Horn 07:41 - 08:09 But over time, bad habits happen, stress happens. I mean, the example of our client, the geopolitical forces that they experience on top of just the dynamics of the job itself are crushing in many circumstances. And so what happens is sometimes team leaders get into survival mode and they create an environment where they have almost learned helplessness, right? And it's done over years and months. Spencer Horn 08:10 - 08:29 And so what we do is we come back in and basically help them rediscover their capabilities to heal themselves almost, right? So that's what you're talking about is you're mirroring back what's going on and we're saying, this is how you look in the mirror. Is that what you want? Peter Hård 08:29 - 08:47 Exactly, and we can hear sometimes people say or leaders who say we are a very good team and they show a few examples and then we test them, we trial them and we mirror back the result and sometimes there's a small voice in the back saying finally somebody's telling us what we're doing wrong. Spencer Horn 08:48 - 09:06 So if somebody's listening they might think that's a little devious, Peter, that we test them, we trial them because it's amazing. As soon as you start playing a game or doing an exercise, What they say goes out the window. What they do, it really shows up, doesn't it? Peter Hård 09:06 - 09:36 Yeah, and as you know, as Phil Sandel, one of the founders of TCI, the way a team does anything is the way a team does everything. So they recognize their patterns and eventually they start to understand and start to wonder what we can do. And I mean, when they call themselves teams, but they don't work as other teams like sports team, choirs, symphony orchestra, rock bands, You know, they don't just put their shoes out. They practice, they work together, they fail and they redo. Peter Hård 09:37 - 09:51 But leadership teams and other teams don't do that. They just rush into it and hope for success, you know. So we need to take them back to create that music together or that show or that overtone, as they say in choir. Spencer Horn 09:51 - 10:11 So why does this confusion exist with leaders? You talked about the difference of modalities of team building event versus team development and coaching. Why would a leader think that if we do a river raft or a trust fall that that's going to fix things? Peter Hård 10:12 - 10:33 It's not always the leaders, sometimes it's HR or some others who have been on such an event before, because these are events. It could be fun as a starting point for a merger or something, you do some fun together. But we've never been able to measure any change in productivity. I think they do it because they think it's a quick fix. Peter Hård 10:33 - 10:50 Let's just do that and see what happens. But after two days, they're back in their reality. And sometimes even worse, because not everybody wants to go in rafting with their peers or go to the sauna with their colleagues. So it could be fun for the event arrangers. Peter Hård 10:51 - 10:58 But for most teams, it's actually not working. It could be worse even. So you need to have that serious long term. But of course, you blend in. Peter Hård 10:58 - 11:12 certain exercises and, you know, we call them intermezzo sometimes, or icebreakers, and just see what happens. Because we want to trial them time after time to see that they really get it, get stuck within the system. Spencer Horn 11:13 - 11:46 And I think that that is such a great point, Peter, and it also carries over into your work as a coach. If you just do, say, an initial diagnostic, that then also becomes an event. And it's, I think it's very dangerous because you set them up with hope and you, and you can have such a powerful one day, two day, usually diagnostic. And if that's not followed up and maintained, then people actually become more cynical because there's this hope that they have and it doesn't change. Peter Hård 11:47 - 11:56 Yeah, and the fact is what they get is knowledge. And if you don't use your knowledge, it's basically useless. That's right. You need to transfer it to competence. Peter Hård 11:56 - 12:21 And from that trial back at home, getting competence, you spread it in your organizations, you get the ripple effects that are expected. But doing a thing one doesn't create that. So I think that's the investment. And you should ask them, if you don't do this, If you don't jump onto an opportunity of, let's say, grow 20% as a team in productivity and positivity, what's the cost of that? Peter Hård 12:22 - 12:23 Just leaving it. Spencer Horn 12:23 - 12:47 So if you're listening, it is our experience at Team Coaching International that if you go through a team diagnostic and work with a team over time, you will see an improvement in productivity and positivity. At an average rate of 20%. I mean, it can be more. I've seen productivity in terms of revenue increased 50% in less than a year. Spencer Horn 12:48 - 13:05 And they attributed that to the work of team coaching. And I know you've experienced more than that, but you're giving the conservative number on average of 20%. Peter, you said that most teams fail before they even begin. What are they missing in that setup phase? Peter Hård 13:07 - 13:43 Well, I think they're eager to show results for themselves and for us coming visiting, but you know it's like if you you're not ready with the whole, let's say you're out to sail somewhere, you don't bring half of the staff on the boat, you don't bring half of the sails, you will not get that far and you miss some people back, back wondering what you know, I should be there, I'm not there, why is this? Sometimes we rush and we have to, we have to hold the jackets of the leaders sometimes Because if you rush, you forget your resources. And this is one of the big things with teams. Peter Hård 13:44 - 14:08 Most leaders don't know how to use their resources. So until you have untapped them, and this is what we help them with, finding the meta skills and the tools and exercises and resources that they don't use within the team, you will not be able to get where you want to. I have so many examples. I have so many examples of leaders who try to stick with their issues and problems and demands themselves. Peter Hård 14:09 - 14:42 But when it puts them on the table for the team to jump in, the team wants to create a result with your leader, and the outcome is multiple times bigger than what they were expecting. And when you tell about your team working, what the work they've done well to your peers and your leadership team, they will want to make it even better than that. And I have such true stories of a leader who needed to save 300,000 pounds, UK pounds. and the team helped him to save 400,000 pounds. Peter Hård 14:42 - 14:59 He then told his peers in the leadership team about this story how he used his team and a month or two later another guy in that team came back said I listened to you my team saved me 700,000 pounds. That's the growth you know that's what it's happening. Spencer Horn 14:59 - 15:16 And so I love that story. And what that shows is, first of all, proof of concept. This team coaching process absolutely works. We say this in working with teams, we have several assumptions. Spencer Horn 15:16 - 15:41 First of all, a team exists to produce results, right? We will say that again and again. And so when you are a coach and you're talking to the team leader, We are on your side that the team has to produce whatever it is that you're producing, whether it's a nonprofit, government agency, education, higher education, the result is the outcome of what it is that the organization exists for. Spencer Horn 15:41 - 16:02 But to be able to do that at a sustainable rate, at an improved and more efficient rate, that has real value to an organization. So we're coming in saying, we will help you. And in this case, you're talking over a million pounds saved with just two teams within the same organization, if what I heard is right. Peter Hård 16:04 - 16:06 It's true. Spencer Horn 16:06 - 16:11 And so I bet that what happens is, is that you get a lot of referrals. Peter Hård 16:12 - 16:25 Yeah, I got it. You know, there's, there's quite a few of team members that have come back. I had one last summer calling me 10 years back. We worked together in China in a, in a multinational team. Peter Hård 16:26 - 16:35 And she said, I'm always thinking of this. Now I have this new role. Can you come back and work with me? I have another leader who came back four times every time he moved to another role. Peter Hård 16:35 - 16:38 He said, it's time again, Peter. Let's come back and do this. Spencer Horn 16:38 - 16:54 I love it when they move to a new role because they know that the process will work again and again and again. And it's just, I think that is fantastic. That's a testament though. to your ability to execute the process. Spencer Horn 16:54 - 17:20 And there's so much more than just the process there. It's the trust building that you create. I think in part of the question, you know, I want to share with our listeners, you know, Peter, you and I have been working on an engagement and we have been It's something that has been going on for months and months. Even before I came on the scene, you were working on the setup for this particular client. Spencer Horn 17:20 - 17:30 And we're working with the team leaders. What are the outcomes? What do you need? So helping them also see, what may be a challenge. Spencer Horn 17:30 - 18:02 So in a sense, we're doing some consulting in the beginning, but we're also identifying what it is that they want and we are co-creating before we even get with the team. That takes sometimes months. And then when you and I started to work together, it's how are you and I going to work to make sure that we're helping the team leaders achieve their goals? Because we have to come in and be completely aligned with how we're going to approach it, or we will bring our own dysfunction to their dysfunction, which could create disaster. Peter Hård 18:03 - 18:30 Yeah, and I think it's that balance of preparation that we do together to create our alliance, how we want to be together, what we want to show them or give to them, and how we help them to create their alliance. That's the beauty of it. And then we dance with what happens in the room or what wants to happen, as we say. Because, I mean, when you have been doing this work for a couple of years now, you get eyes in your back, you know. Peter Hård 18:30 - 18:58 So when I'm watching half of the team, I notice what's happening beside because I see what they're looking at or what's happening. So I can turn around and say, and what? You know, so that's also, I believe if you are an individual coach today, you get equipped with so much more tools, ways of working, ways of understanding that a system, I mean an individual is a system, right? We have different fingers and arms and eyes and things that need to work together. Peter Hård 18:59 - 19:34 The same is with the team, but in team coaching you don't go that deep. Often you go more broad because you need to watch. It's like you're in a TV shop or so you're buying a TV, you know, they have all the screens and you have to say which one is, you know, they're all on, which one to look at, which one is the best, where do I find and so on so that's just constantly spinning and fade as we say you go in and you take you go back take the big picture you're constantly moving so team coaching is sometimes tiring because you are everywhere you're like the guy in the circus who spin the plate and then the Peter Hård 19:34 - 19:52 public says wow it's gonna wobble you have to go there spin it back off A lot of physics in this, but it's what also engages the team because they notice that we hold them in this, we hold and create the space for them so that they feel the psychological safety they need to feel. Spencer Horn 19:52 - 20:12 Well, and if you're listening to this thinking about certifying to be a team coach, we help prepare you for that. And one of the things that, you know, you just talked about spinning and fading, you know, as a coach, we're not We're not doing the, the work of, of, of the team. We are helping them do that work. And sometimes they need a little nudge, right? Spencer Horn 20:13 - 20:29 Their behavior is showing up. And so you'll come in and, and maybe just set up a, ask a question or set up a process and then step back. That's the spin to get the table, you know, the, the plate spinning, and then you step back and let them. say, oh, wow, OK, we hadn't thought about that. Spencer Horn 20:30 - 20:48 What does that bring up? And then the discussion goes forward, and it's our job. And I think one of the funnest things that I had about working with you is they thought we'd known each other forever because of how we worked together. But I think we had eight versions of our agenda before we even started. Spencer Horn 20:48 - 20:54 And then we had six more in the actual day. Peter Hård 20:54 - 21:50 That's you know we adapt to their reality we want to be there with them capture What's happening give it back to them? Maybe give a notch as you said that we have different roles where we're sometimes we're of course we're coaches and team coaches But we sometimes teaching we're sometimes you know not a colleague because we're always on the edge of the system, but we can be help them be a an architect or a therapist sometimes or even you know a challenger coming in and you do things with them and for them and tell them really really tough things but it's tough love you know we we want them sometimes to get a move on because they get stuck in their in their ordinary conversation so it is a You have to have different roles in mind and play them out when you need to, as well as they have, and you need to help them to find these meta roles and these hidden resources that they have, Peter Hård 21:50 - 21:58 because it will be much more easy for them to create that speed if they are using all their resources wisely. Spencer Horn 21:58 - 22:23 And so you call that the dance, because you don't just come in with an agenda and present, you know, beginning to end. This is not a workshop. Where we're presenting, this is a lesson, we impose the lesson on you, it is really working with what's showing up. And that is one of the things I think is so amazing about team coaching. Spencer Horn 22:23 - 22:45 So, what does setting a team up for success actually look like in practice, you know, for a coach walking into that new engagement? I think we've talked about it. It's, you know, it's working with the team leaders, identifying what it is that they need, coming in with a plan to help them to achieve that. It's adapting in the moment. Spencer Horn 22:45 - 22:53 It's eyes in the back of your head, as you say. It's all of those things. What else? Anything that a coach can do? Peter Hård 22:53 - 23:11 Yeah, it's a real setup. It's for them to understand what we're doing, what team coaching is, what's my role, what's their role, what I'm doing or not doing, so they understand how to use me. And then we do the same with them, you know, what kind of roles do they have. And how do we need them to behave? Peter Hård 23:11 - 23:24 So we set up a set of rules of engagement, you know, to find a forward. So that's where we start off. And then we work through, you know, their experience of being in high performing teams. And they share that with each other. Peter Hård 23:24 - 24:05 And already, then you can notice confirming nods and smiles, because we have all been in teams that have worked, we've also been in teams that didn't work. so they understand the difference and then we put a trial to them to see if what they know actually works in this constellation that they have now and quite often it doesn't even though they know what they should do they're in a place they haven't been before with their peers in a new exercise or a new event or a new initiative So then we have a debrief on what happens, then we sharpen the tools and we try again, we do another thing. Before we even go into their actual issues and challenges and opportunities, we need to get them ready. Peter Hård 24:06 - 24:30 And if we give them something to work on directly, they will just work the pattern they have. And we want to start by setting them up with a new understanding of what is possible if set up, if you prepare. You know, it's like any other team on stage. If you don't set up, if you don't prepare, it's like a theater ensemble, you know, if they don't practice. Peter Hård 24:30 - 24:49 Anything can happen. Could be cool, cool or fun, but a symphony orchestra, I don't think so. You know, they need to, they need to do things together. They need to find their pace, their tone, their tune, their song, their start and ending, and the agreement of when you go solo. Peter Hård 24:50 - 24:52 And so on. So I love that. Spencer Horn 24:53 - 25:18 When do you get to go solo? I want to go to this metaphor that you, you, you, uh, shared with the body as the system. I, I, I just, with your experience, Peter, where have you seen? I mean, are leaders aware of the system, the team system, or do they treat the part of the body that's ailing? Spencer Horn 25:18 - 25:42 In other words, if I've got an issue, it's because I've got a stomachache or I've got a cut on my finger and we address that and we ignore the overall. I don't know if the metaphor I'm giving is right. It seems to me that leaders are, not aware of the complete system. They focus on individual parts of the whole. Spencer Horn 25:43 - 25:50 And what is the impact of it? Do you see that? I mean, it's a leading question, I know, but what do you see in that regard? And what's the impact of that? Peter Hård 25:50 - 26:03 You know, sometimes what I see if I, if I use half of your metaphor is that leaders sometimes get out of the body and say, look at them. So they're not even seeing themselves as a part of that system. And then it's weird. Spencer Horn 26:03 - 26:04 That's so great. Yeah. Peter Hård 26:05 - 26:19 And, and, you know, if, if, you know, it's like a Chinese acupuncture or so you have a, you have a bad feeling in a knee, but they massage the end of your back. You know, how does that work? Yeah. Because we're systemic. Peter Hård 26:19 - 26:42 It doesn't mean that you have to work where it's tough, but try to find the root cause or try to find what's causing this. And sometimes teams, they get rid of a person because they think that's the one, the troublesome person who's always resisting and so on. They move that person out. And nothing changes because it's systemic. Peter Hård 26:43 - 26:53 It's in the walls. It's in them. So the system needs to change, but we are not there to fix them. We're there to mirror what they do as a system. Peter Hård 26:53 - 27:06 And if they do things that we see, their people, their employee, their stakeholders, they will see that. We're just there to put up that warning sign or that mirror, say, don't do this again. Get to your next level. We can help you. Spencer Horn 27:07 - 27:23 So you've been talking about setting a team up, taking the time to do it right. What happens if a leader or a coach rushes in too quickly to start solving a problem? What does that cost the team? Peter Hård 27:24 - 27:42 Well, there is only one person that thinks they're ready and move on and they will leave the others by the fireplace and still thinking about talking to each other. I had an experience yesterday. We do an exercise we call a need and trust circle. We put people very close to each other in a ring. Peter Hård 27:43 - 28:10 They seem to their needs touching each other. And they individually, they close their eyes and they say, this is what I need from you today to feel safe and that I'm willing to support and do my best and let my voice be heard to you all. The others just listen and everybody shares their needs. And when they're done, you wait until it dissolves, when they're ready to go to work. Peter Hård 28:10 - 28:29 Because I did this once with a team and the leader was just after everybody has said their thing, he said, yes, that's it, let's move on. He just lost them. He lost his whole toolbox, his resources, because they were not done. And one of the things with teamwork is that I am not done when I am done. Peter Hård 28:30 - 28:41 I'm done when you are and the rest of the team is. Then we can move on. That's why speed is not always king. When we have learned this, how we work this, then everybody will move when it's the right time. Peter Hård 28:43 - 28:46 So you need to adjust. Spencer Horn 28:50 - 29:12 Sorry, I was just like, yes, a little break right there. So you need to adjust. And you know, I think sometimes it's interesting, you know, you talk about, we want to get them all singing. Some managers, some leaders actually might be uncomfortable with that, saying that that's so silly, but it is so important. Spencer Horn 29:12 - 29:21 And sometimes it's the littlest of things. When I go in, I was just working with a group of CEOs on Tuesday. It's Thursday today, right? So Tuesday. Spencer Horn 29:22 - 29:49 And what I teach them is a coaching skill to help develop their direct reports. It takes a huge mindset shift for them to coach their people instead of solving their people's problems. Because they are in solution mode all the time, because they are in productivity mode all the time, they're perpetuating the problem that they're frustrated about. In other words, I need more help. Spencer Horn 29:49 - 30:02 I need my people to have more ownership. You are creating that problem, leader. But the point I want to make is the skill that it takes to make that shift is so basic. It's listening. Spencer Horn 30:03 - 30:25 It's asking questions. It's slowing down and figuring out what's really going on and asking them how they're going to solve it themselves instead of solving it for them. that they just can't, it's like it can't be that easy. And sometimes because of what it is that will cause a shift is so basic, people will like, well, that's silly. Spencer Horn 30:25 - 30:40 I mean, why would, but as soon as people start singing together, it's just amazing what happens. They're excited to show up for work. They're excited to do all the things that you as a leader need them to do. But you're like, well, there's got to be some amazing formula. Spencer Horn 30:41 - 30:45 It is an amazing formula. It's just not what you usually think it is. Peter Hård 30:45 - 30:56 Yeah, I like that, all the things they can do. And one easy thing, one easy step is to step back. So you get the big picture of the whole team. You see them all, not only the problem. Peter Hård 30:57 - 31:06 Because if your problem focused, you're a part of the problem. You need to get out and see, is this even a problem? Or is it a polarity? Something we need to manage, not something we need to solve. Peter Hård 31:07 - 31:15 And continuing on your singing metaphor, I ask leaders, what's the song your staff sing about you? Spencer Horn 31:15 - 31:19 Ooh, I like that question. And what do they say sometimes? Peter Hård 31:20 - 31:46 Yeah, they don't know, of course, but then the team members start whispering to each other, you know, they're probably singing. So it's, you know, everything with music, and music is a metaphor here. What we mean is, when people are in the same pace, you know, they have that, that same tone, they show up as one team, not as pieces of a puzzle. and they have one language or one system to work with. Peter Hård 31:46 - 32:03 Everybody wants that. So many teams say, we want to have one system, one department, one voice, and they act like, I don't know, a first-time choir people. It sounds a little skewed before they come together and find that overtone. I've been in a choir. Peter Hård 32:03 - 32:11 I'm a drummer. I'm a pace guy. I love to see what happens when me and the bass guys suddenly go, yeah, That's a good. Spencer Horn 32:12 - 32:14 Mess with the band. Peter Hård 32:15 - 32:25 Yeah. And then somebody goes for a solo and everybody goes, what are you doing? I have a story with my friend and colleague Annika. She got emotionally hijacked. Peter Hård 32:25 - 32:35 And Annika, if you're listening or in here, you know this. We always tell it together. One of the team members came in late and explained what happened. It was an ambulance. Peter Hård 32:35 - 32:43 It was something happened. And Annika got totally hijacked. Oh, that happened to me too. And then they started to have their own thing. Peter Hård 32:43 - 32:56 And I was trying to pull her back. Come on, we have a team here. And what we did with that, when I told her, Annika, can we continue here, please? And we decided this is how we play it together in front of the team. Peter Hård 32:56 - 33:09 She said, yeah, of course. And then she said to the team, did you notice what just happened? So we used a thing that happened to us as a normal thing. It happens to teams, even the smallest, the pair. Peter Hård 33:10 - 33:21 You know, it's okay. You can come back. You can talk about it and see how do we avoid, you know, doing this again. And this is one of the other beautiful pieces with well-functioning teams. Peter Hård 33:21 - 33:34 When they're done with their meeting over the day, They stop and sit down and say, what did we learn about ourselves today? How did we follow our rules of engagement? Did we accomplish what we wanted to do? What was enabling us? Peter Hård 33:34 - 33:40 What was derailing us? How do we learn from this and move to our next level for the next meeting? Spencer Horn 33:41 - 34:01 Okay, so if you're listening to this, this is gold right now. I want you to Why don't people do this? It's exactly what we're talking about because they're in such a hurry. Speed is killing, but the patience that if you just slow down for a minute at the end of the day, and it takes how long, 10 minutes? Spencer Horn 34:01 - 34:14 Five, 10 minutes. Five, 10 minutes. And we're so busy that we don't slow down and take five, 10 minutes. And if you do what Peter just said and ask those questions, everything speeds up. Spencer Horn 34:15 - 34:26 Can you slow down to speed up? We have a comment from a listener that's live. So I'm going to put it up here. It says, MJ says, invaluable insights on high performance teams. Spencer Horn 34:27 - 34:34 Exactly what I needed to hear today. Keep up the great work. Thank you, MJ. Thanks for chiming in live. Spencer Horn 34:34 - 34:49 We love it when you do that. Listeners, if you make comments, or even if you have questions of us, We'll be able to put them up and address them. And we love that. It just makes the show a little more dynamic and fun. Spencer Horn 34:50 - 35:18 And we want to do that for you. You mentioned a word, Peter, polarity. And it's actually something that you, as you are certifying other team certified performance coaches, that they need to look for in a team engagement. Would you explain a little bit more about what polarities are and how you look for them? Peter Hård 35:19 - 35:37 Yeah, you know, what we see sometimes is teams that still have the same questions on their agenda for their meetings, and it's been on this agenda for many months. It's point 21 on the agenda, so you never get there. And this is because sometimes teams are too big. They have the wrong things on the agenda. Peter Hård 35:37 - 35:51 They don't use the peer collaboration on the level below the team. And what happens is that, no, come back to the question again. Polarities. Polarities, thank you. Peter Hård 35:52 - 36:09 So what I say, these are combined things that we need both of them. So it's not something we need to solve. We need to manage them. And the example we gave, and I was working with the Center for Creative Leadership before, and we used the example as, let's breathe in and continue to breathe in. Peter Hård 36:09 - 36:20 And after 30 seconds, you still breathe in. and still you're fainting. So what do you need to do now? Read the readouts. Peter Hård 36:21 - 36:29 Okay. And if you do that for six minutes, what do you need to do that? Otherwise you faint, you know, either way. So you need to manage that. Peter Hård 36:29 - 36:37 It's like a laying eight, you know, you have to do both. So this and that. And how do you balance that? You look for early warning signals. Peter Hård 36:38 - 36:51 You do something to go back to the other side. It's like rest or training. If you train too much, you'll get, you get pain in your body if you push it, you know, and you need to rest. But if you rest too much, you look like you and me, we need to go back to training. Peter Hård 36:52 - 37:07 So diets are managing those and people don't see them. But when they talk about it every day, like local, global, production, innovation, all this Dualities that... Justice and mercy. Spencer Horn 37:07 - 37:15 If you have too much of one, too much justice, there's no creativity. Too much mercy, there's chaos, right? How do you balance those? Peter Hård 37:17 - 37:45 That's why all of those in the system are important because someone might see an early warning signal from the bigger system, from stakeholders, clients, providers, that something's happening. and they need to warn or tell the team, you know, this is what I hear in the grapevine. And some of you say, oh, you know, we managed that, it happened before, we're okay. Then it isn't, and then it hits you. Peter Hård 37:47 - 38:05 And you need to use all the voices in the system, not only the big talkers. One of the big issues with teams is the lack of well-distributed airtime. The big mounts are always there, but they need to be taught to call for the smaller voices, you know. Spencer Horn 38:05 - 38:21 And how do you do that, Peter? So, you know, you talked about earlier when we were doing a team diagnostic, we create a space, a container that is safe for them to speak up. How can leaders do that with their teams to create a space where they hear all voices? Peter Hård 38:22 - 38:47 Yeah, I mean, they can go practice themselves. They can, for instance, not be the chairman of a meeting. Let somebody else do that so you can watch the system in play. Or ask what people are doing when they're not at work to find their hidden resources, where they go and get strength, where they are energized, where their driving forces are, because sometimes it's outside of work. Peter Hård 38:48 - 39:11 Bring those skills, experiences and wants into work and people will feel more appreciated and will feel more valued as members. Then you start talking about what do we need for us to be safe. We talk about how to work on psychological safety, but not only that, also trust between members. What do you need from each other before you start to work? Peter Hård 39:11 - 39:42 Because if the team is safe, the work will be safe and this will spread in the organization because what we know, both you and me, people don't do what the leaders tell them to, they do what the leaders do. So the leaders in the leadership team, for instance, have to come congruent with what to say and what they do and how they act towards their people and to each other. And we see sometimes that they talk about anything they want others to do, but they never change themselves, then nothing happens. Spencer Horn 39:42 - 40:05 I say that all the time, Peter, that the team is a reflection of the team leader. Every team is a reflection of that team leader. And so often it's the team leader that's complaining about the team. And when I talk to CEOs from time to time, they'll be telling me, hey, You know, you know that this person on my team is a real issue. Spencer Horn 40:05 - 40:17 Can you fix them? I said, well, yeah. I mean, so what you're saying is if you had fewer Spencers and more Peters, business would be great. They're like, yes, I want fewer Spencers and more Peters. Spencer Horn 40:17 - 40:39 And I, but before, before we get into that, I said, okay, um, we'll, we'll, we'll take a look at that. But is it possible that part of the problem is, is your part of the problem? And if they're not willing to admit that they're part of the problem, then we're probably not going to have much success with, you know, with Spencer. Fixing him, right? Peter Hård 40:40 - 40:47 Exactly. And you cannot change other people. You can only change the way you see them, you know, and how you interact with them. So start with, start with yourself. Peter Hård 40:47 - 40:52 Leaders, cynics says, leaders eat first or something. Maybe it's change first. Spencer Horn 40:52 - 40:58 That's what I would say. Yeah, leaders change first and eat last. Yeah, that's the way it was. Peter Hård 40:58 - 41:22 But this is fun also with sayings or metaphors, they can be differently interpreted. So you need to be aligned also what you mean when you say things. I have this story with this guy from another country who came to me after a session and he said, I totally agree, totally agree with you what you say. I was a bit confused, you know, because this doesn't mean in certain languages. Peter Hård 41:22 - 41:22 Right. Spencer Horn 41:22 - 41:33 It's like, I totally agree with what you're saying. Well, that happens in Greece, maybe, but I don't know there. Oh, my Greek friends. I love them. Spencer Horn 41:35 - 41:41 Which means yes. Exactly means yes, that's hilarious. I always think that, that's so funny. Peter Hård 41:41 - 42:01 I think that's the beauty of working with teams because every team is a culture itself and it has different expression and different interpretations of what was said. And I see this too often when I'm in teams that they seem to be aligned on a decision and then you go out and people go to the water cooler or the coffee machine and they ask each other, what just happened? Spencer Horn 42:01 - 42:03 It's called the meeting after the meeting. Peter Hård 42:03 - 42:37 It is and it happens sometimes inside of the meeting as well And I was I was with I was with a team somewhere in Europe and I came to the meeting they had their ordinary meeting first And I came to meet them when they got out for a break, and I asked the first one So how was your meeting? It was fantastic the best ever I mean we have learned so much so now and then the next guy came, and I said cool I heard you had a great meeting. No we didn't this was one of the worst ever and We need some alignment here, let's go to work. Spencer Horn 42:37 - 42:42 So you've talked, you've worked with over 150 teams globally. Peter Hård 42:42 - 42:45 170 actually now, I counted them. Spencer Horn 42:45 - 42:51 How many? 170. Oh my goodness. And so this is obviously a problem that you see. Spencer Horn 42:51 - 43:01 Any other problems that seem to show up again and again that they struggle with early on when you start working with them? Peter Hård 43:01 - 43:19 lack of follow through, you can really understand if a team is buying in, if they understand mutual accountability, and it's the second time you meet them, have they delivered to themselves? Or are they trying to deliver to me? And if they haven't, they're full of excuses. So we have to talk about learning. Spencer Horn 43:19 - 43:21 What do you mean they're trying to deliver to you? Peter Hård 43:21 - 43:45 Yeah, because they think I'm asking them to deliver this to me instead of thinking of delivering to each other. You know, it could be a decision they want to follow through, something they need to present to people and they don't do it. And they always find the excuses because there's no consequences discussed before. So what we need to work with as teams is if we deliver this, what's the benefit? Peter Hård 43:45 - 43:55 What are the positive consequences? What else will be better if we do this? And how do we feel about ourselves? If we don't deliver, what are the consequences of that? Peter Hård 43:57 - 44:20 And of course, they see those different sides and they want to go to the side that gives them something extra. And sometimes they, you know, they're stuck in between somebody, they do have to work. And my first question is, so what does that tell us about you? And they get, you know, like children scraping with their foot and yeah, trying to find excuses. Peter Hård 44:20 - 44:37 Sometimes, even once, I left a team that was all into explanation. And sometimes you have to be assertive and say, if I'm gonna work with you, You're going to be serious about yourselves. You're not doing this for me. I'm not here to fix you. Peter Hård 44:37 - 44:46 You're responsible for you. You are the ones you're waiting for. Get into the learning of how to find yourselves. I can support you with that. Peter Hård 44:46 - 45:00 I'll create that safe container. I support you with questions and exercises and tools so we can trial together, reflect, debrief and learn. And next time we'll do it faster. You know the experience we have with the exercise called the helium stake. Peter Hård 45:01 - 45:12 Yeah. Second time, first time is just chaos. We won't get into the details, but mostly the first times of all of these exercises we do, it's a chaos. Then we have a debrief. Peter Hård 45:12 - 45:22 They learn, they go back to practice. Next time, it's not going to be a success either because they're thinking too much. They don't get into the team. They go into individual stuff. Peter Hård 45:23 - 46:08 And the last time they speed up. and sometimes without talking, because leaders talk, leadership teams talk and talk and talk, and they want to be close to the leader, and it's a fight about position. Everybody needs to look at themselves with a big mirror and see how they play together, because they can't move without that. They're stuck in fighting and firefighting and words, and sometimes you have to tell them what you see, You know, how's this working for you is one of my favorite. Spencer Horn 46:08 - 46:15 How's this working for you? I love that question. I also love the question. Where else does this show up? Peter Hård 46:16 - 46:17 Exactly. Spencer Horn 46:18 - 46:33 Where else is this showing up on your team? Where else is this showing up in your work? And the stories that they're telling about themselves is part of the perpetuating of the dysfunction, right? Peter Hård 46:33 - 46:37 I mean, they're justifying why they are the way they are instead of Spencer Horn 46:38 - 46:48 And sometimes, you know, that tough love is really, I mean, you want to stay here, then sometimes they need to be sick and tired of being sick and tired before they're ready to. Peter Hård 46:49 - 47:03 Yeah. And sometimes it's the smaller voices that come up and say, Hey, guys, I'm usually silent, but I can't hold it anymore. Because we are, we're not listening to all of us. We're not doing what we say we do. Peter Hård 47:03 - 47:24 And we're not asking just that question, where else does this show up? It shows up with me, I noticed, but I'm, you know, I don't feel yet that I can come in and share, but I need to. We are helping also the small voice. I call it the small voices because they're usually the one with the solutions and the best ideas. Peter Hård 47:25 - 47:48 But they're thinking and they need to process. And that's why we want to do sometimes we do two day sessions on the first time we meet or lunch to lunch because the social events on the evening, the dinners create something. It bonds and we see people at work together. The next morning, the people have been thinking have beautiful solutions because we waited for them. Peter Hård 47:49 - 47:51 And you need to do that. You need to sleep on it. Spencer Horn 47:51 - 48:24 I couldn't agree more because sometimes they really struggle in the – when you talked about the helium stick, great process if you're a coach. It's one of the processes that we will teach you in really revealing what's going on with the team and how blame We actually get into the four toxins that, you know, the Gottman Institute. And this is an activity that once they say, hey, we're great, and then all of a sudden we throw this activity at them, they start blaming, why are you doing that? And they start being defensive and it's just powerful. Spencer Horn 48:24 - 48:45 So what happens, Peter, exactly what you're saying is the loud voices are talking and yapping and it's chaos. And those who are thinking, they can't think clearly. And once they have that time to think overnight, you're so right. Overnight, so many things change, because people are slowing down and saying, is that how we really show up? Spencer Horn 48:46 - 48:50 We just exposed ourselves, and now what are we going to do about it? Peter Hård 48:50 - 48:53 And it's a wonderful thing to do, to be that. Spencer Horn 48:53 - 49:12 self-contemplative. And I have a video, which I'll put in the show notes, because I'll put a video of the helium stick in the show notes. I did this with a Miss America group in Nevada once. It was so hilarious, Peter. Spencer Horn 49:12 - 49:33 It took them eight times. Now, I don't always do that, but I gave them eight chances because they were just so hysterical. I mean, funny, because they would just start laughing and then we were just like, okay. And by the eighth time, it got so quiet and so focused. Spencer Horn 49:33 - 50:00 And when all the voices and the laughing and the blaming, once that stopped and everybody focused, magic happened. And it was amazing, and they can see the difference of what happens when we just start singing, as you said, together as a team. Yeah, well, we've been talking now for quite a while. I have a couple more questions for you, Peter, as we wrap up. Spencer Horn 50:01 - 50:11 So if a coach is listening and wants to improve how they start in engagements with teams, what's one thing they should start doing different right away? Peter Hård 50:13 - 50:31 Well, I understand most of them coach leaders, and at least some of them do. So you have the person you need to get to there. And TCI has this wonderful team leader view that you can use. You can offer a leader to say, well, what if we took a look at the way you see your team? Spencer Horn 50:31 - 50:32 Yeah. Peter Hård 50:32 - 50:55 and get a discussion from that. And when they see the result of their own view, it's an excellent opportunity for continued coaching because you will address their leadership within that team picture that they paint. But you can also ask them, you know, what if you got the same information from your team to see how aligned you are on where you are as a team? and you can start from there. Peter Hård 50:55 - 51:36 Also, I think expanding, taking a step back when you have a single coach in front of you, take a step back and say, you know, You're a leader, but leadership is a social process, so you lead others, right? What if we bring them in? What would happen if we heard more of your people, or if you, aside the story with the savings before, if you can add more to your reality, if you can get your people to work better for you or more for you, if you can become more vulnerable? using them or utilizing them better than you do today. Peter Hård 51:36 - 52:01 What kind of effects would that create? And it's so hard for a leader to say, well, if I haven't done this, what's the winning of continuing not working with my team when I can see so many benefits? that whatever I learn from coaching, you multiply this because others learn. It's like a leader says, oh, from coaching, I got, you know, my light went on. Peter Hård 52:01 - 52:10 I really got it. Yeah, but it's still dark in the room because the other lights are not on. What if that happened? You got your team members to light up. Peter Hård 52:10 - 52:31 You will see so much more, much more opportunity and so on. So you look at creating an alliance with that person that he or she can expand with other people so they can get a move on. They can still, of course, run themselves. Not all coaches that we work with are team leaders, but they can be team members. Peter Hård 52:32 - 52:52 So another way is to say, what if you could speak to your leader and talk about coaching? And probably you got coaching from them as a benefit or something like that, or because you needed it. Now give something back. tell them what you learned about coaching and how that can, the effects of what you have learned can multiply in a team. Peter Hård 52:53 - 53:23 So actually you have a very good person in front of you, if you're coaching an individual. And then be out there, talk to people, talk to all the teams you see, you have your family, your sports team, your choir, get to understand why they are working and interacting the way they do. The way, the thing that took me into team coaching is when I go back to when I was 12 years old, I was visiting the Stockholm Zoo. And we watched the monkeys on the, we called the monkey mountain. Peter Hård 53:24 - 53:29 And I was thinking, how is this working? How is this system? I remember this. I was in my third grade. Peter Hård 53:29 - 53:47 And I asked my, my teacher, How do they know who's deciding things? How do they, you know, how does this function? And then she said to me, I remember this. Yeah, she tried to explain and she said, you probably get it when you're older. Peter Hård 53:47 - 53:58 I still meet those monkeys. I still don't understand that, but now I know what I can do to help them. And I can also distribute that knowledge to others. This is what I love. Peter Hård 53:58 - 54:41 The experience I had yesterday for three days, with my colleague Annika and 12 wonderful coaches that we're moving into team coaches. I mean, the feedback we got, the immense, you know, the increase in learning that happened there and then over three days, their strengths coming into play. And we saw them go from, you know, small, not small creatures, but really blooming, really coming out with pride, really showing the whole register that they had and what they've learned and the feedback to us was amazing. what we have supported them with and how much they love this. Peter Hård 54:43 - 54:46 Sorry for swearing, but team coaching is the shit. Spencer Horn 54:46 - 55:00 That's what I love the most. It's fun, it works, it's powerful, and it's so much fun to see. We believe that people want to win. They want to be on a winning team. Spencer Horn 55:00 - 55:12 People want to be part of that. And when you give them that opportunity to do that, they're so excited. Well, you have so, so, so much experience. Obviously, you're certifying coaches. Spencer Horn 55:12 - 55:37 You gave a great suggestion for new coaches to use what's called the Team Leader View. I'll put a link in the show notes if you want to Take the team leader view for free. If you become a certified TCI coach, certified team performance coach, you get access to that survey for free that you can use to develop engagements with your clients. It's super helpful. Spencer Horn 55:37 - 55:58 And then everything else that you said. Now, you've finished writing a book because you are working with other great team coaches all over Europe. and around the world, and together you have written a book, and the only thing that you're waiting on, I guess, is just what the cover's going to look like. Is that right? Peter Hård 55:58 - 56:22 We got some suggestions on the cover, and I also, a couple of years back, created a global network called the Global Team Partners, and we have a reach of team coaches from Shanghai to San Francisco. If people are interested and getting into becoming a skilled team coach, there's a space for you there. There's such a learning opportunity when great team coaches come together. Spencer Horn 56:22 - 56:23 It's a community, right? Peter Hård 56:25 - 56:32 We're giving community. We're not there to find business. We're there to help each other grow more and more. And we find business together. Peter Hård 56:32 - 56:46 What we also found was the four of us had the same idea, and I launched it. And I said, why don't we write the book together? Because we've basically been working between 15 and 20, 25 years each. And we are spanning the whole world. Peter Hård 56:46 - 56:58 I mean, we have coaches from China, India, Jordan, the US West Coast, North Africa, Middle Europe, a lot of them. We are four Europeans. I'm Swedish. We have a Dutch colleague, Frank. Peter Hård 56:58 - 57:15 We have Simone, who's English by birth, but lives in Switzerland. And we have Duygu from Turkey. So the four of us have during almost two years compiling our experience together to help leaders lead their teams better. And now we finalized the writing a few months ago. Peter Hård 57:15 - 57:26 Now we're looking at, the book is at an editor and we're looking at the cover now, but we're not sure on which cover to- All right, so we're gonna, for those of you who are watching this, I'm gonna put it up on the screen here. Spencer Horn 57:26 - 57:45 These are the options. So we have three different colors, a light blue, a dark blue and orange. And then a couple of different images. And so if you could vote, say from left to right, there's five choices, one, two, three, four, five. Spencer Horn 57:46 - 58:00 If you're watching, put it in the chat, which one you like. I don't know. I mean, I kind of like the, I mean, what is the psychology behind blue versus orange? Peter Hård 58:01 - 58:20 Well, we were asked by the editor to send pictures of books that we liked that had some attraction with us. And we ended up getting into these colors. And we looked at red or green and yellow, almost all of the other colors. And we also looked at what books seemed to be best selling. Peter Hård 58:20 - 58:28 And we ended up somewhere here around blue, orange. Blue is very business. Orange is very creative. So it depends on the... Peter Hård 58:28 - 58:48 on the person who's looking at it. But we're trying to say if you are in a bookstore or on an airport where you see books or somewhere else, which one draws your attention? We have the dice on three versions of colors and we have the pillars with different kind of people. We're still working the details of the pictures. Peter Hård 58:48 - 58:56 But see here is here is what the five four of us actually liked Let me hold on. Spencer Horn 58:56 - 58:57 I'm going to tip before you bias me. Peter Hård 58:57 - 59:14 I like the last one myself Yeah, yeah, I'm on to that one too as well So we'll see, we're still twisting bits and pieces in it. But it's cool to see about 80 years of experience working with several hundreds of teams. Spencer Horn 59:15 - 59:15 I love it. Peter Hård 59:16 - 59:17 Probably 200 countries. Spencer Horn 59:17 - 59:42 I love that this is geared towards leaders of teams. And so some things that they can do, especially ongoing after they work with a team coach. I have one final question. And this is one that I really, I want to ask all the coaches that come on, because we learn from challenging situations, right? Spencer Horn 59:43 - 1:00:11 We learn from difficulties as leaders in teams, but also as coaches, there are difficult situations that come up that are, you know, you've talked about sometimes even walking away from a team. What's been one of the biggest challenges you faced as a systems team coach? Because you are very particular about saying, I am a systemic team coach. That's what you call yourself. Spencer Horn 1:00:12 - 1:00:24 How did you deal with that or navigate that challenging system? And where, if at all, did trusting this team coaching international process make a difference? If you could share, that'd be great. Peter Hård 1:00:24 - 1:00:56 Yeah, I think most often it's the formal leader who stays in being the only leader because we talk about team leadership. Everybody, every member of a team is a team leader depending on the situation. And I've seen so many times that a leader doesn't get that and they don't want to change. And they think if they've been with us once, it only happened to me once with at least 170 teams that a leader said, no, I'm not going to continue. Peter Hård 1:00:56 - 1:01:27 I need to do an organizational recharting instead. I was like, we've done the TDA, the team diagnostic assessment. We have all your colleagues want to go on. and you want to do an organizational charge change, or chart change, you cannot force them, but you can sow some seeds with the team and hopefully later on, they will change because they are the biggest obstacles. Peter Hård 1:01:28 - 1:02:00 Usually the team then starts to grow and say, hey boss, we actually need this. So, The team itself is the biggest tool to help with any challenging situations. If you can unleash this team, like Phil's book, if you can get all the resources to come in play, This is where the magic happens. So they have challenges, but so many challenges are put up by themselves, their own obstacles. Peter Hård 1:02:00 - 1:02:09 They're in the way of themselves. They're waiting for themselves, but they think we are the ones to come and save them. That's not our role. Our role is to open doors. Peter Hård 1:02:09 - 1:02:14 mirror things, feedback to the system, what's happening and not happening. Spencer Horn 1:02:14 - 1:02:25 Help them become aware of their own operating process, their own thinking, their own behavior, their own BS belief systems, right? Peter Hård 1:02:25 - 1:02:53 And that's the skill we have as team coaches when we have been around for some time, we notice the shifts in the emotional fields, when something is urging, something wants to happen, and we play with that. And it can be fantastic sometimes to see the change happen in front of you. And I actually had a leader once who, he was in individual coaching two years too late. But he was in and he said, I want to do everything for my team. Peter Hård 1:02:53 - 1:03:13 He didn't do anything when he was within the team. And eventually the team forced him out and then he started to grow. So again, we're not there to fix them. We're there to equip the team with the, you know, with the strengths they need to make the change and then create that space for them to have that conversation. Peter Hård 1:03:13 - 1:03:24 in safety and be with them when they start moving. And that's the beauty. And hear them say, why didn't we do this before? We have the power. Peter Hård 1:03:25 - 1:03:29 We are the ones we're waiting for. We just needed to unleash ourselves. Spencer Horn 1:03:30 - 1:03:47 Well, Peter, thank you so much for sharing. I always learn so much when I'm talking with you. And if there are people who are listening that would like to have an opportunity to co-coach with you, partner with you, join your speaker community, how do they get ahold of you? Peter Hård 1:03:48 - 1:04:03 So anybody can reach out to me at Peter at team, sorry, Peter at teamperformance.se, S-E for Sweden, Peter at teamperformance.se. That's my email and I'm on LinkedIn as well. Spencer Horn 1:04:04 - 1:04:16 That is fantastic. Well, thank you for joining us. Those of you who are listening to this, please like and subscribe. Our team's unleashed. Spencer Horn 1:04:16 - 1:04:41 This is a team coaching international, really, project of love. We are so excited to highlight some of our incredible team coaches with so much experience. We want you to come back and learn more and have success in working with your teams and just love, love, love this work. It's so much fun. Spencer Horn 1:04:41 - 1:04:58 It's so fulfilling and exciting. More importantly, you are making the world a better place when you do this. So please like and subscribe. And Peter, if you'll hang on for just a second, there'll be a little moment of silence after we play our outgoing music and goodbye everybody until next time. Peter Hård 1:04:59 - 1:05:00 Thank you.