WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:25.040 --> 00:00:26.880 Anke: Hello and welcome, Zazie. 00:00:26.900 --> 00:00:28.970 I'm very excited to have you here today. 00:00:29.870 --> 00:00:31.190 Zazie: Thank you for having me on the show. 00:00:32.630 --> 00:00:36.020 Anke: Well, I always start and ask the same question, so you 00:00:36.020 --> 00:00:37.580 are not going to be saved either. 00:00:37.790 --> 00:00:41.600 So let people know where in this lovely world you are and 00:00:41.690 --> 00:00:43.790 what's your business with dogs. 00:00:44.970 --> 00:00:49.775 Zazie: So I'm in Maple Ridge, BC Canada, which it's near Vancouver, basically. 00:00:49.775 --> 00:00:51.605 It's a very beautiful part of the world. 00:00:51.605 --> 00:00:53.165 Lots of lovely forests. 00:00:53.705 --> 00:00:57.485 Um, I've, as you can tell from my accent, this is not where I'm from. 00:00:57.485 --> 00:01:00.485 I grew up in Leeds in England, so things are very different here. 00:01:00.485 --> 00:01:01.265 But I love it here. 00:01:01.535 --> 00:01:05.555 And I am an award-winning writer and I write about both dogs and cats. 00:01:05.555 --> 00:01:07.745 My books a Bark Wag Amper, that's. 00:01:14.465 --> 00:01:17.585 Anke: It's like, I'm just wondering like, okay, if you continue with other animals, 00:01:17.585 --> 00:01:18.815 that's gonna be sounding bit funny. 00:01:21.395 --> 00:01:23.495 Zazie: This is always what people are asking me, which, 00:01:23.495 --> 00:01:25.415 which, which word is animal word? 00:01:25.415 --> 00:01:26.615 Is it going to be next? 00:01:26.615 --> 00:01:27.965 But we have to wait and see. 00:01:27.965 --> 00:01:31.265 I I can't spill any beans on anything at the moment. 00:01:32.460 --> 00:01:33.575 It's interesting. 00:01:33.575 --> 00:01:33.635 I. 00:01:35.385 --> 00:01:38.595 It's interesting to me though, to see which ones people come up with 00:01:38.595 --> 00:01:41.655 and I'm listening very carefully and thinking, well, should I write that one? 00:01:41.655 --> 00:01:44.175 Because a lot of people have mentioned it, so we'll see. 00:01:45.330 --> 00:01:52.455 Anke: Well, well, well, so you know, obviously, so you, you, so 00:01:52.455 --> 00:01:53.985 you're not just about dogs then. 00:01:55.825 --> 00:01:56.600 No cats as 00:01:56.600 --> 00:01:56.840 Zazie: well. 00:01:57.230 --> 00:01:57.770 Anke: Cats as well. 00:01:57.770 --> 00:02:00.470 Like, I'm, I'm, I like cats too, so it's not, not a problem. 00:02:00.470 --> 00:02:03.530 But we're on a dog show, so I'm gonna just kind of, uh, 00:02:03.590 --> 00:02:05.210 lead on the, uh, with the dog. 00:02:05.210 --> 00:02:05.930 So, 00:02:08.210 --> 00:02:12.890 I mean, I would imagine you had a dog at some point, and at some point 00:02:12.890 --> 00:02:16.790 you thought like, I wanna turn this into a business, or, or do you just 00:02:16.790 --> 00:02:20.900 go, well, oh, actually let me write a, like how does one come up with the 00:02:20.900 --> 00:02:22.880 idea of writing that kind of book? 00:02:23.945 --> 00:02:27.515 Zazie: Yeah, so my background is probably not typical at all for people in the 00:02:27.515 --> 00:02:32.345 industry, except insofar as there was a dog with behavior issues who changed my 00:02:32.345 --> 00:02:34.265 life, and that part is very, very common. 00:02:34.295 --> 00:02:38.075 I think there are many, many people in that situation, but I 00:02:38.075 --> 00:02:39.875 was a human psychologist first. 00:02:39.890 --> 00:02:41.960 My PhD is in psychology. 00:02:42.350 --> 00:02:45.860 Um, I did that at the University of Nottingham and I worked for quite a 00:02:45.860 --> 00:02:47.960 while as an academic psychologist. 00:02:48.320 --> 00:02:52.040 And then I moved to Canada with my husband, um, 17 00:02:52.040 --> 00:02:53.510 years ago now, I think it is. 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:56.630 And I had always wanted to be a writer, so. 00:02:56.835 --> 00:02:59.055 When I got to Canada, I was very lucky. 00:02:59.055 --> 00:03:03.855 I was accepted onto an MFA creative writing at UBC, and I 00:03:03.855 --> 00:03:05.685 did that and that was wonderful. 00:03:05.685 --> 00:03:08.325 That was so exciting because it was something I'd wanted 00:03:08.325 --> 00:03:09.945 to do for years and years. 00:03:10.575 --> 00:03:15.645 And then after that I started a blog and the dogs were the reason why I started 00:03:15.645 --> 00:03:20.415 the blog, really because we had these two dogs, ghost and budget, we got them. 00:03:20.675 --> 00:03:21.635 Very close together. 00:03:21.635 --> 00:03:26.495 We got Ghost first from, uh, one of the local animal shelters. 00:03:26.585 --> 00:03:28.625 And he was an amazing dog. 00:03:28.625 --> 00:03:30.425 He was like, he was huge. 00:03:30.485 --> 00:03:34.595 He was a cross between a Siberian Husky and an Alaskan Malamute. 00:03:34.955 --> 00:03:40.145 And he was very lovely, uh, very sweet, but he really liked other dogs and 00:03:40.145 --> 00:03:41.675 we thought he really needs a friend. 00:03:42.335 --> 00:03:44.105 So we went to get him a friend. 00:03:44.285 --> 00:03:44.915 Um. 00:03:45.935 --> 00:03:48.635 And really all we cared about was that he liked the dog. 00:03:48.635 --> 00:03:50.915 We weren't so bothered for ourselves. 00:03:50.915 --> 00:03:55.445 We, I guess we naively thought we could handle anything so long as the dogs got 00:03:55.445 --> 00:03:59.765 on with each other, you know, you go into these things with the best of intentions. 00:03:59.765 --> 00:04:02.915 So we adopted Badger who was an Australian Shepherd and. 00:04:03.760 --> 00:04:06.100 He was absolutely lovely. 00:04:06.100 --> 00:04:10.960 He was an amazingly good friend and he also had a lot of issues, 00:04:11.380 --> 00:04:13.630 so he was very reactive on leash. 00:04:13.660 --> 00:04:18.040 He would, when we first adopted him, he was about two years old and he 00:04:18.040 --> 00:04:22.270 would spin and spin in circles, um, sometimes with his tail in his mouth. 00:04:22.540 --> 00:04:27.250 So he came from a background where he hadn't been properly socialized 00:04:27.250 --> 00:04:31.870 or properly looked after, and he, he was afraid of all kinds of things, so 00:04:31.870 --> 00:04:33.460 we had to do a lot of work with him. 00:04:34.100 --> 00:04:38.780 My mom happened to give me a book, which maybe you know about by John Bradshaw 00:04:38.780 --> 00:04:42.380 called, um, in the u in the UK and Europe. 00:04:42.380 --> 00:04:46.790 It's in Defense of Dogs and in America it's dog sense and 00:04:46.790 --> 00:04:48.440 it's all about canine science. 00:04:48.710 --> 00:04:51.920 And even though my, like, my background was psychology, but. 00:04:52.355 --> 00:04:56.825 Psychologists at that time were not at all interested in domesticated animals. 00:04:57.035 --> 00:04:57.965 Rats and mice. 00:04:57.965 --> 00:04:58.565 Yes. 00:04:58.925 --> 00:04:59.615 Primates. 00:04:59.615 --> 00:05:00.095 Yes. 00:05:00.155 --> 00:05:00.605 Humans. 00:05:00.605 --> 00:05:00.965 Yes. 00:05:00.965 --> 00:05:02.105 But dogs and cats. 00:05:02.165 --> 00:05:02.555 No. 00:05:02.765 --> 00:05:03.995 And I was like, wow. 00:05:03.995 --> 00:05:06.665 I did not know that canine science existed. 00:05:06.845 --> 00:05:08.525 And I just thought it was amazing. 00:05:08.855 --> 00:05:12.605 And so I started my blog Companion Animal Psychology, writing about 00:05:12.695 --> 00:05:16.265 canine science and feline science because I'm a cat person as well. 00:05:16.865 --> 00:05:17.405 And. 00:05:17.670 --> 00:05:21.240 I just thought it's amazing that there is this science that we can use that can 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:25.980 help to make our lives better, our life with our dogs better, because so much of 00:05:25.980 --> 00:05:29.640 it is very, very practical and it gives us a better understanding of our dogs. 00:05:29.910 --> 00:05:34.470 So I started companion animal psychology in 2012, and in a way 00:05:34.470 --> 00:05:36.000 the rest is history because that. 00:05:37.010 --> 00:05:41.390 Got me started on this long journey towards writing books, and I can 00:05:41.390 --> 00:05:43.760 tell you how the books came about as well, if you'd like to know, 00:05:43.760 --> 00:05:44.480 but that's, I'd love to hear. 00:05:44.750 --> 00:05:48.080 Anke: Yeah, no, I'm, I'm, you know, like, I've got my, my first one 00:05:48.080 --> 00:05:52.250 published, not about Dogs Motech and the second one in the works, but, so 00:05:52.250 --> 00:05:53.630 I'm always curious, congratulations. 00:05:53.630 --> 00:05:57.860 Like how, how another author kind of goes about things and comes 00:05:57.950 --> 00:06:01.850 around to the, to the, to the, the core message and the topic. 00:06:02.510 --> 00:06:02.750 Zazie: Yeah. 00:06:02.750 --> 00:06:03.020 Yeah. 00:06:03.200 --> 00:06:05.495 Well congratulations on your books and Thank you. 00:06:05.555 --> 00:06:07.940 So I just was writing my blog and I wasn't really. 00:06:08.975 --> 00:06:12.065 Thinking too much about how to get a book, but I did have this 00:06:12.065 --> 00:06:15.485 idea that I was starting to think about, and I was occasionally 00:06:15.485 --> 00:06:17.285 writing blog posts on that topic. 00:06:17.555 --> 00:06:20.165 And then there came a point when I thought, I'm not putting any more of 00:06:20.165 --> 00:06:23.405 this onto my blog, because I don't want someone else to think this is 00:06:23.405 --> 00:06:24.785 a good idea and go off and write. 00:06:25.455 --> 00:06:27.375 The same kind of book would make it harder for me. 00:06:27.765 --> 00:06:30.555 And then I was really lucky because this was in the days when 00:06:30.555 --> 00:06:32.295 Twitter was quite a big thing. 00:06:32.715 --> 00:06:36.045 We had lots of people there and some, someone who was a literary agent 00:06:36.045 --> 00:06:40.545 contacted me on Twitter and said, have you ever thought of writing a book? 00:06:40.875 --> 00:06:43.440 And I was like, yes, actually indeed, I have. 00:06:44.450 --> 00:06:44.900 Yes. 00:06:45.230 --> 00:06:47.630 Um, so we had a meeting. 00:06:47.630 --> 00:06:49.280 She turned out to be local to me. 00:06:49.640 --> 00:06:53.300 Um, and we had a meeting and talked about ideas and ultimately that 00:06:53.390 --> 00:06:56.270 is the book that became wag the Science of Making Your Dog Happy. 00:06:56.630 --> 00:07:02.210 So that's all about how to have a happy dog and it takes you dog through every 00:07:02.210 --> 00:07:05.540 stage of their life right through from getting a puppy or adopting an adult 00:07:05.540 --> 00:07:10.280 dog to when you have a senior dog and even the end of life, because that's. 00:07:11.325 --> 00:07:13.755 Very hard part, but it's important to write about it. 00:07:13.755 --> 00:07:17.745 And I think it's helpful for people to know some of those things 00:07:17.745 --> 00:07:19.665 before they get to that stage. 00:07:20.025 --> 00:07:21.525 And so it takes you all through that. 00:07:21.525 --> 00:07:25.665 And it, it has at the end, end of every chapter a set of tips 00:07:25.665 --> 00:07:27.045 to apply to science at home. 00:07:27.045 --> 00:07:29.445 And at the end of the book, there's a checklist for a happy 00:07:29.445 --> 00:07:32.985 dog that people can go through and see are they doing these things? 00:07:32.985 --> 00:07:36.615 Or which of these ideas would they like to start doing with their dog to see 00:07:36.615 --> 00:07:38.265 if it makes a difference to their dog? 00:07:39.165 --> 00:07:40.905 And I firmly believe that. 00:07:41.450 --> 00:07:46.220 When you know what your dog needs and you provide what your dog needs, then they are 00:07:46.220 --> 00:07:49.730 going to be happier basically, and they're going to be less likely to have behavior 00:07:49.730 --> 00:07:53.060 issues and they're going to be more likely to have a good relationship with you. 00:07:53.300 --> 00:07:56.450 And that's why we get dogs because we want a good relationship with them. 00:07:56.540 --> 00:07:58.250 So that's why I wrote that book. 00:07:58.490 --> 00:07:59.120 Anke: I love that. 00:07:59.125 --> 00:07:59.720 I love that. 00:07:59.990 --> 00:08:05.300 So out of all the things that are in the book, um, if you were 00:08:05.300 --> 00:08:08.060 to pull out like one thing that. 00:08:08.585 --> 00:08:12.545 You know, makes your dog happy that, you know, like maybe pick the 00:08:12.545 --> 00:08:17.855 most underestimated one or the one that most people wouldn't think of. 00:08:18.455 --> 00:08:20.945 You know what, what comes to mind? 00:08:23.285 --> 00:08:23.315 Zazie: I. 00:08:23.315 --> 00:08:24.560 Well, I think, can I pick two? 00:08:25.550 --> 00:08:25.552 Oh, please. 00:08:25.557 --> 00:08:26.210 I wanna pick two. 00:08:27.105 --> 00:08:28.425 I just didn't wanna kind like 00:08:28.520 --> 00:08:30.830 Anke: kind of discourage people from getting the book, but 00:08:30.830 --> 00:08:31.940 if you can pick two, go for 00:08:31.940 --> 00:08:32.150 Zazie: it. 00:08:32.390 --> 00:08:37.100 I'm gonna pick two because I think there is one idea that has really caught on 00:08:37.370 --> 00:08:40.580 and not just because of me talking about it, because lots of people who've been 00:08:40.580 --> 00:08:44.060 talking about it, and that's the idea of giving your dog the opportunity to sniff. 00:08:44.570 --> 00:08:46.550 And I write in the book about how. 00:08:46.855 --> 00:08:50.305 From an animal welfare perspective, it's really important that your 00:08:50.305 --> 00:08:53.695 dog gets, uh, opportunities to use their most important scents. 00:08:53.995 --> 00:08:56.425 And for them, of course, that smell and. 00:08:57.380 --> 00:09:01.850 I especially like the idea of taking your dog on a nari. 00:09:02.150 --> 00:09:05.510 Basically just giving them the chance to sniff as much as they like, and you 00:09:05.510 --> 00:09:09.050 give them the freedom to follow their nose so long as it's safe to do so. 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:12.980 And I think that idea and the idea of playing Saint Games with your 00:09:12.980 --> 00:09:15.650 dog or doing those work with your dog, we've seen a lot of people. 00:09:16.325 --> 00:09:21.005 Take up on this idea and a lot more people are doing it now and you can even get like 00:09:21.005 --> 00:09:24.575 snuffle mats from the pet store and so on, which you didn't used to be able to do. 00:09:24.575 --> 00:09:25.865 And I think that's wonderful. 00:09:26.165 --> 00:09:30.785 So I still think that is probably the most important thing for most dogs. 00:09:30.785 --> 00:09:32.015 It's something that is. 00:09:32.975 --> 00:09:35.315 Not present in their lives as much as they would like. 00:09:35.315 --> 00:09:37.835 So it, it's, it's very easy for people to do. 00:09:37.835 --> 00:09:41.345 It doesn't have to cost anything, and you don't even have to go anywhere. 00:09:41.345 --> 00:09:43.955 You can just go outside your door and let your dog sniff there. 00:09:44.225 --> 00:09:47.435 You can do online nose work classes if you want to. 00:09:47.435 --> 00:09:48.260 So I think that's important. 00:09:49.745 --> 00:09:53.525 The other one though that I do want to mention is that everyone 00:09:53.525 --> 00:09:55.295 should give their dog a safe space. 00:09:55.475 --> 00:09:59.435 The dog should have somewhere where they can go, where they are not going 00:09:59.435 --> 00:10:03.185 to be disturbed, and they can just relax and chill out if they want to. 00:10:03.515 --> 00:10:06.815 And you are never going to go and get the dog from that space because then 00:10:06.815 --> 00:10:08.735 it wouldn't count as their space. 00:10:09.095 --> 00:10:12.575 So if you want the dog from there, you have to call them to you and 00:10:12.575 --> 00:10:14.015 teach them to come when called. 00:10:14.265 --> 00:10:15.465 Not actually go and get them. 00:10:15.465 --> 00:10:19.665 So especially in a busy household, it gives the dog somewhere quiet to go. 00:10:19.815 --> 00:10:25.005 And that's mentioned in Wag, but it, it is mentioned again, of course, in 00:10:25.005 --> 00:10:28.965 my most recent book, bark the Science of Helping Your Anxious, fearful, or 00:10:28.965 --> 00:10:32.715 Reactive Dog because it's good for all dogs, but it's especially important 00:10:32.715 --> 00:10:34.425 for those fearful and anxious dogs. 00:10:34.445 --> 00:10:34.505 Mm. 00:10:35.285 --> 00:10:40.715 Anke: That makes so much sense, and I'm really happy to hear that the idea of 00:10:40.715 --> 00:10:44.675 letting the dog sniff, that it's sort of really almost catching on, you know? 00:10:44.735 --> 00:10:49.955 Because I remember when I had my first dog, Leo, like this one there, and I don't 00:10:49.955 --> 00:10:52.115 know, like that's how I understood it. 00:10:52.205 --> 00:10:54.395 Like just without knowing anything. 00:10:54.425 --> 00:10:55.475 That's what I do. 00:10:55.685 --> 00:10:56.075 You know? 00:10:56.075 --> 00:10:59.435 I would just kind of like, he wants to sniff, all right, it's your walk. 00:10:59.435 --> 00:11:02.310 You know, like the amount of crap I took. 00:11:02.820 --> 00:11:06.570 From neighbors and it's like, oh no, like the dog needs to follow you. 00:11:06.570 --> 00:11:07.770 How can you be run? 00:11:08.010 --> 00:11:11.340 You gonna, you know, and you encourage him to pull and you do this. 00:11:11.340 --> 00:11:14.910 And this is like all these million reasons why that was like the 00:11:14.910 --> 00:11:16.950 worst thing to do, you know? 00:11:17.160 --> 00:11:20.730 And so, so, and now with my two big girls, it's like, yeah, 00:11:20.730 --> 00:11:22.260 I'm just your bodyguard really. 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:23.760 You know? 00:11:24.030 --> 00:11:25.200 That's how I see it. 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:28.080 And we go and as, and it's funny how the more. 00:11:29.585 --> 00:11:34.685 Space they get and the more time they get to literally not just like let 00:11:34.685 --> 00:11:39.425 them sniff a little bit, but literally until they go like, okay, I'm done now. 00:11:40.115 --> 00:11:43.745 And it's so funny to, when they come home, they're wiped out. 00:11:44.135 --> 00:11:44.885 Like it's so funny. 00:11:44.885 --> 00:11:46.925 They're so wonderfully tired. 00:11:47.285 --> 00:11:51.245 You know, even if you don't go any further than you normally would, it just 00:11:51.245 --> 00:11:53.915 really, yeah, it really tires them out. 00:11:54.935 --> 00:11:58.205 Zazie: And I think that's something a lot of people don't realize until they start 00:11:58.205 --> 00:12:00.155 giving those opportunities to their dog. 00:12:00.605 --> 00:12:04.475 And yeah, as you say, it, it used to be the case and certainly some people 00:12:04.475 --> 00:12:06.395 still will say, who's walking the dog? 00:12:06.395 --> 00:12:08.105 Or things like that, which is so annoying. 00:12:08.795 --> 00:12:12.935 But it's, it's the dog's walk, that's the point of the walk. 00:12:15.815 --> 00:12:16.145 Yeah. 00:12:16.145 --> 00:12:18.935 So you wanna make sure that your dog is enjoying it, and that means 00:12:18.935 --> 00:12:23.585 letting them sniff the female or whatever, you know, they, they. 00:12:24.710 --> 00:12:28.790 They get a lot, they're reading like what has been happening in the environment. 00:12:28.970 --> 00:12:33.260 And it might be a bit boring for us sometimes, but actually for me, I, I'm 00:12:33.260 --> 00:12:36.350 quite happy just to stand there and watch them having a nice time sniff. 00:12:36.710 --> 00:12:40.370 And I'm quite happy just paying attention to what's going on around 00:12:40.370 --> 00:12:42.920 me and looking for the birds and the flowers and things like that. 00:12:42.920 --> 00:12:44.570 And I think that is good for me too. 00:12:44.570 --> 00:12:44.900 So, 00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:46.580 Anke: yeah, I think so. 00:12:46.580 --> 00:12:47.180 I think so. 00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:50.750 It's actually really quite funny because that presence, I 00:12:50.750 --> 00:12:52.100 think it's really helpful like. 00:12:52.465 --> 00:12:57.205 Yeah, I mean for, for us to come down a little bit, but also that being 00:12:57.205 --> 00:12:59.635 present in the moment with the dogs. 00:12:59.965 --> 00:13:03.565 You know, I have a friend locally and she will always like, oh, um, 00:13:03.565 --> 00:13:06.595 she, I think she's given up, but she's so often she'd go, Hey, why 00:13:06.595 --> 00:13:08.035 don't we walk the dogs together? 00:13:08.035 --> 00:13:12.955 And I'm like, I don't want to, you know, I love that time, just the dogs and me. 00:13:13.325 --> 00:13:17.585 You know, there's no phone, there's nobody to talk to, there's no messages to check. 00:13:17.585 --> 00:13:21.935 There's literally, it's just the dogs and me and I totally love that to be that 00:13:21.965 --> 00:13:26.285 like fully present and not just like, oh yeah, you know, I'm doing my thing here 00:13:26.285 --> 00:13:28.145 and the dog's carrying on over there. 00:13:28.535 --> 00:13:31.415 It's, um, yeah, so it's, it's beautiful. 00:13:32.435 --> 00:13:36.725 Zazie: I think it's a really special time and for me, like if I'm writing and I 00:13:36.725 --> 00:13:41.045 get stuck now, I don't often get stuck on things, but every, every writer gets stuck 00:13:41.045 --> 00:13:45.125 at some point and you're like, I dunno what to say or, I dunno how to say this. 00:13:45.425 --> 00:13:46.925 I just take the dog these days. 00:13:46.925 --> 00:13:48.005 I have a senior dog. 00:13:48.395 --> 00:13:48.875 Um. 00:13:49.305 --> 00:13:49.665 Pepper. 00:13:49.665 --> 00:13:50.415 He's a shihtzu. 00:13:50.445 --> 00:13:51.885 He does not walk very far. 00:13:51.975 --> 00:13:55.425 He does a lot of sniffing and he's very slow because he's a senior. 00:13:55.665 --> 00:13:59.385 But I just take him and go outside and just 10 minutes outside 00:13:59.385 --> 00:14:03.615 watching him sniff it helps it like it refreshes me as well as him. 00:14:03.615 --> 00:14:03.735 Yes. 00:14:03.735 --> 00:14:07.575 So then I can come back to my computer and sit down and I haven't 00:14:07.575 --> 00:14:11.145 necessarily solved the problem, but I'm in a better space anyway to, to. 00:14:11.645 --> 00:14:13.775 Resume working and resume writing. 00:14:13.775 --> 00:14:17.435 So that, that really helps whenever I get stuck, like the, that time with the dog 00:14:17.435 --> 00:14:22.535 is, is really special time just to relax and not think about anything and just be 00:14:22.595 --> 00:14:24.965 with him and in the moment completely. 00:14:25.055 --> 00:14:25.385 Yeah. 00:14:25.745 --> 00:14:26.075 Anke: Yeah. 00:14:26.075 --> 00:14:26.705 I love that. 00:14:26.705 --> 00:14:27.755 That makes so much sense. 00:14:27.755 --> 00:14:27.965 Yeah. 00:14:27.965 --> 00:14:30.215 It's because like walking, you cannot get stuck. 00:14:30.515 --> 00:14:34.415 You, you've gotta walk away and you know, nobody betters to take along than a dog. 00:14:35.615 --> 00:14:36.275 Yes. 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:39.810 So do people like come and work with you as well or is like your 00:14:39.810 --> 00:14:41.850 books, like your books is your main. 00:14:43.595 --> 00:14:45.605 Zazie: So I have worked with clients. 00:14:45.695 --> 00:14:48.785 I am currently taking a break because there are only so many 00:14:48.785 --> 00:14:52.265 hours in the day, and right now my books are the main channel. 00:14:52.535 --> 00:14:55.805 Um, so, and my blog and my podcast as well. 00:14:55.805 --> 00:15:00.455 So, um, my books Bark Wagon Perth, so Bark came out in September. 00:15:00.455 --> 00:15:03.665 It's coming out in paperback in June of this year. 00:15:03.665 --> 00:15:05.165 So very soon. 00:15:05.585 --> 00:15:06.245 Um, and. 00:15:06.875 --> 00:15:11.765 I wrote that because I wanted to give hope to people with fearful and anxious dogs. 00:15:11.795 --> 00:15:17.075 And it can be so hard having a dog with behavior issues and a dog who's afraid. 00:15:17.075 --> 00:15:19.415 And people really put a lot of effort. 00:15:19.445 --> 00:15:22.445 They have to put a lot of effort into solving these situations. 00:15:22.655 --> 00:15:26.165 And I wrote back to give them hope and to say that, yes, we know it's 00:15:26.165 --> 00:15:29.255 hard because I think it helps people to know that they're not alone. 00:15:29.555 --> 00:15:32.675 And also to give lots of practical tips for what to do 00:15:32.675 --> 00:15:34.025 with a fearful and anxious dog. 00:15:34.910 --> 00:15:38.330 Especially because some of it is quite technical, um, and. 00:15:39.275 --> 00:15:42.155 I wanted to be able to explain that in ways that mean that people can 00:15:42.155 --> 00:15:43.415 actually apply it and can do it. 00:15:43.415 --> 00:15:46.325 Because so often people say, well, I've tried this and it's 00:15:46.325 --> 00:15:50.255 not working, and there are so many things that you have to get right. 00:15:50.315 --> 00:15:53.105 And then not many places that explain that very clearly. 00:15:53.345 --> 00:15:56.435 And of course with my background in psychology, some of this is kind of 00:15:56.435 --> 00:16:00.695 bread and butter for psychologists anyway, so, um, it that helps. 00:16:00.695 --> 00:16:04.325 And like my other books, I've looked into all of the science and incorporated that 00:16:04.325 --> 00:16:08.375 in it, and lots of stories of my own dogs and of other people and the dogs that. 00:16:08.945 --> 00:16:10.055 That they have as well. 00:16:10.055 --> 00:16:13.595 So it's full of practical tips that I hope will help people. 00:16:13.595 --> 00:16:17.435 And, um, I will be taking new clients again very soon, 00:16:17.435 --> 00:16:18.965 but only clients in Canada. 00:16:18.965 --> 00:16:23.735 And I only do consults over Zoom these days because it's a much better use 00:16:23.735 --> 00:16:26.765 of my time not to have to travel. 00:16:26.825 --> 00:16:27.545 Um, yeah. 00:16:27.635 --> 00:16:29.915 And look, think, I think I know a lot of people who 00:16:29.975 --> 00:16:33.275 Anke: do that now, and I think, I mean, and I've heard people 00:16:33.275 --> 00:16:35.345 say that it's actually, uh. 00:16:35.855 --> 00:16:39.035 Yes, it's more, it's better for your time, but it's actually, I think, 00:16:39.035 --> 00:16:42.815 also better for the dog because like you are not walking into that space. 00:16:42.815 --> 00:16:45.095 And because I get that happens a lot, I think, you know, like 00:16:45.095 --> 00:16:49.205 somebody new walks in and like, you kind of mess up the entire dynamic. 00:16:49.505 --> 00:16:53.975 So of course the dog's gonna be different, you know, but then what they 00:16:53.975 --> 00:16:57.485 really need is that in their normal environment things are different. 00:16:57.755 --> 00:17:01.415 So I think it's actually even, you know, better for the dog as well. 00:17:02.285 --> 00:17:02.555 Zazie: Yeah. 00:17:02.585 --> 00:17:02.855 Yeah. 00:17:03.155 --> 00:17:05.105 And um, yeah, absolutely. 00:17:05.105 --> 00:17:06.155 And for cats too. 00:17:06.245 --> 00:17:09.035 I mean, it's exactly the same for cats, especially if you've got a fearful 00:17:09.035 --> 00:17:12.425 cat and you go into their space, well, they're gonna run and hide and you can 00:17:12.425 --> 00:17:16.565 see the setup, but you can see the setup just as well from talking to people from 00:17:16.565 --> 00:17:20.195 what you see on Zoom, from what they tell you about, about their home and 00:17:20.195 --> 00:17:24.245 their, their daily routines with their, so I think it works, works really well. 00:17:24.545 --> 00:17:28.055 And then as well as the books, I have obviously my blog, I still write my blog. 00:17:28.555 --> 00:17:31.375 So people can sign up to my newsletter if they want. 00:17:31.795 --> 00:17:33.835 Um, actually there's a choice at the moment. 00:17:33.835 --> 00:17:36.985 You can sign up on my website or if you're on into Substack, 00:17:37.045 --> 00:17:38.005 you can sign up on Substack. 00:17:38.245 --> 00:17:39.745 Instead, you get exactly the same. 00:17:39.745 --> 00:17:40.885 It makes no difference. 00:17:41.275 --> 00:17:44.425 Um, and I, I like to write about, I. 00:17:45.065 --> 00:17:48.035 Things that will help people understand their dog better or 00:17:48.035 --> 00:17:50.165 cat and also about the science. 00:17:50.165 --> 00:17:53.165 So I'm still keeping an eye on the canine science 'cause I find that 00:17:53.165 --> 00:17:57.605 absolutely fascinating and I'm still always looking out for new articles that 00:17:57.605 --> 00:17:59.735 I think will be interesting for people. 00:17:59.915 --> 00:18:04.745 And especially I have a focus on dog training methods because, uh. 00:18:05.180 --> 00:18:06.590 Along with other people. 00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:10.850 I, I know from the science how important it is to use reward-based methods with 00:18:10.850 --> 00:18:12.890 your dog and not to use aversives. 00:18:13.160 --> 00:18:16.130 And so that's one of the things that I especially keep an eye 00:18:16.130 --> 00:18:17.270 out on for the literature. 00:18:17.480 --> 00:18:21.110 But I also just love writing about anything to do with the human animal bond 00:18:21.140 --> 00:18:23.300 or things to do with enrichment as well. 00:18:23.690 --> 00:18:27.905 Um, yeah, and there's so much interesting stuff, so it's, there's so much. 00:18:28.215 --> 00:18:28.505 Anke: Yeah. 00:18:28.695 --> 00:18:28.985 Zazie: Yeah. 00:18:29.555 --> 00:18:32.555 Anke: Actually, I'm curious because I like, it's really funny 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:33.575 'cause I have a, I have a client. 00:18:33.575 --> 00:18:35.645 She is, um, she's a therapist, right? 00:18:35.885 --> 00:18:40.145 And so she often talks about like her method to, you know, 00:18:40.145 --> 00:18:43.265 for working with mostly sort of people with hypersensitivities. 00:18:43.265 --> 00:18:46.175 There's a lot of autism, a lot of, you know, and it's really funny 00:18:46.175 --> 00:18:48.005 because, so she also has a dog, right? 00:18:48.005 --> 00:18:51.245 And so we so often say like, you explain your method, like the entire 00:18:51.245 --> 00:18:55.835 thing and like the books you've got and, and you literally replace. 00:18:56.420 --> 00:19:01.730 Hypersensitive like Child with dog and you've got a dog book, right? 00:19:01.730 --> 00:19:05.000 Like it's literally like from human psychology. 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:08.420 Like what was sort of the, is there something, you know, where you think, God, 00:19:08.420 --> 00:19:11.630 I never knew the parallels were so strong. 00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:15.350 Or maybe there's an area where it's like, oh yeah, dog and people like 00:19:15.350 --> 00:19:16.695 are really different here, but. 00:19:17.225 --> 00:19:19.025 Surprisingly similar over there. 00:19:19.265 --> 00:19:22.265 So is there something that stood out to you when you sort of, you 00:19:22.265 --> 00:19:26.375 started from the human psychology and then moved over into the animals? 00:19:27.365 --> 00:19:30.005 Zazie: Yeah, that's a really interesting question and I think 00:19:30.005 --> 00:19:33.695 it's something where what we know has changed so much over the years. 00:19:33.995 --> 00:19:37.505 So if you go back, way back a long way to when I was an undergrad 00:19:37.505 --> 00:19:39.995 and a, and a graduate student, um. 00:19:41.060 --> 00:19:44.960 Everybody, of course, learns, behaviorism, behaviorist principles, 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:48.290 how to do opera conditioning, what classical conditioning is, that's like 00:19:48.290 --> 00:19:50.180 every psychologist has to learn that. 00:19:50.420 --> 00:19:53.630 And then of course, there's loads of other things that you learn about as well. 00:19:53.630 --> 00:19:57.830 But to think those are still basically what dog trainers do all of the time. 00:19:57.830 --> 00:19:58.580 So we know. 00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:01.010 We know that's relevant, but what's really. 00:20:01.275 --> 00:20:01.935 Changed. 00:20:01.935 --> 00:20:03.075 I guess a couple of things. 00:20:03.255 --> 00:20:08.505 One of them is that we used to think animals were not very clever, and I think 00:20:08.505 --> 00:20:13.905 every dog person has always believed that their dog actually is very clever and 00:20:13.905 --> 00:20:18.975 they have given them a lot of credit, but science needs proof for things and. 00:20:19.415 --> 00:20:23.525 For a very long time was very firmly of this belief that humans are special. 00:20:23.975 --> 00:20:27.545 Um, and that lots of things didn't apply and that's completely changed. 00:20:27.755 --> 00:20:31.985 So I think that gives us more of a recognition of just what animals know. 00:20:33.380 --> 00:20:37.520 Now we recognize that dogs and other non-human animals are sentient beings. 00:20:38.090 --> 00:20:40.160 And I think that changes a lot. 00:20:40.280 --> 00:20:46.550 And I think that is partly what has led to the interest in canan science, and also 00:20:46.550 --> 00:20:48.740 it changes how we think about our pets. 00:20:48.800 --> 00:20:51.470 Because it means that we do actually have to do more for them. 00:20:51.710 --> 00:20:56.000 And it's changed how we think about animal welfare because we no longer 00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:00.170 think just about preventing cruelty and the five freedoms that everybody 00:21:00.170 --> 00:21:03.470 knows of the five freedoms, they've done an amazing job for decades 00:21:03.470 --> 00:21:05.120 ever since they were first created. 00:21:05.540 --> 00:21:08.990 But these days we know that it's not just preventing cruelty. 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:10.040 We have a more. 00:21:10.270 --> 00:21:13.390 Modern model called the five domains, which looks also 00:21:13.390 --> 00:21:15.250 providing positive experiences. 00:21:15.670 --> 00:21:19.870 And I think that's really important and that's also something that a lot of dog 00:21:19.870 --> 00:21:23.860 guardians can get behind because we like to see our dogs happy, so we want to be 00:21:23.860 --> 00:21:25.990 providing those positive experiences. 00:21:26.560 --> 00:21:27.130 But then. 00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:32.360 One of the things I found really interesting when I was researching Bark 00:21:32.660 --> 00:21:37.130 because as well as my own experience and my own experience as a dog trainer, 00:21:37.610 --> 00:21:41.450 um, I also read all of the science and I went back through some of the more 00:21:41.570 --> 00:21:45.560 recent science to make sure that I was up to date because of course, research 00:21:45.560 --> 00:21:49.220 on classical conditioning has changed since decades ago when I was a student. 00:21:49.850 --> 00:21:50.000 Um. 00:21:50.460 --> 00:21:52.740 And that was really interesting to me. 00:21:52.980 --> 00:21:56.340 And it's really interesting to me that a lot of this research is either 00:21:56.340 --> 00:21:59.280 on rats and mice or it's on humans. 00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:02.850 And that's what we are drawing on to see how it applies to dogs. 00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:05.850 And there is a little bit on dogs, but there's not very much on dogs. 00:22:05.850 --> 00:22:09.750 But because there's a lot that's similar about the, the mammalian 00:22:09.750 --> 00:22:13.680 brain across different mammals, a lot of that is just very, very relevant. 00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:15.870 And I find that really interesting. 00:22:15.900 --> 00:22:18.360 And of course it's slightly different. 00:22:19.370 --> 00:22:22.730 Some of the studies with people, maybe they're using chocolate or money and 00:22:22.730 --> 00:22:27.800 now as rewards or when something scary happens or slightly unpleasant happens 00:22:27.800 --> 00:22:29.450 to kind of try and reduce that threat. 00:22:29.720 --> 00:22:33.770 Um, of course with dogs we are using cheese or roast beef or something like 00:22:33.770 --> 00:22:38.300 that, but you know, a lot of it is very much the same, very similar, very similar. 00:22:38.645 --> 00:22:42.575 Protocols and yeah, so I think that's, that's great. 00:22:42.755 --> 00:22:44.885 And I love psychology as a discipline anyway. 00:22:44.885 --> 00:22:48.515 I think everybody should learn some psychology at some point in their 00:22:48.515 --> 00:22:51.755 lives because it's so helpful and it's so interesting and it just 00:22:51.755 --> 00:22:55.715 helps you to understand people better and relationships better and so on. 00:22:55.715 --> 00:22:59.795 So I've always been a fan of the subject, and I think I'm lucky that I 00:22:59.795 --> 00:23:03.305 had this academic background and now I come to be able to use what I learned 00:23:03.305 --> 00:23:05.405 before in this very applied setting. 00:23:05.945 --> 00:23:06.305 I love 00:23:06.305 --> 00:23:06.545 Anke: that. 00:23:06.545 --> 00:23:09.035 It's, it's just, so, it's sort of, it's interesting how it sort 00:23:09.035 --> 00:23:10.715 of comes full circle, right? 00:23:10.715 --> 00:23:14.495 So how, how that, that passion sort of carries across and the 00:23:14.495 --> 00:23:16.595 similarities are just striking. 00:23:16.595 --> 00:23:21.275 I think when I'm looking at, at the four dogs that have been in my life, 00:23:21.335 --> 00:23:27.815 it's, I think the biggest surprise was literally what you just said. 00:23:27.815 --> 00:23:31.145 Like, we used to, I mean, you know, growing up I've always 00:23:31.145 --> 00:23:34.955 loved dogs and I never knew how I. 00:23:36.020 --> 00:23:42.440 How clever they are, like I think, I think they're so still so un underestimated. 00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:43.250 You know? 00:23:43.250 --> 00:23:44.330 It's like when they. 00:23:44.525 --> 00:23:47.735 I mean, even just the senses, like you kind of like, you kind 00:23:47.735 --> 00:23:49.295 of know it in theory, right? 00:23:49.565 --> 00:23:52.805 But when you have like a dog nervously panting forwards and backwards and 00:23:52.805 --> 00:23:55.865 you don't know what the heck, you know, and then tomorrow you read on 00:23:55.865 --> 00:23:59.885 the news, oh yeah, there was like a tiny little earthquake 500 miles away. 00:23:59.885 --> 00:23:59.945 I. 00:24:00.355 --> 00:24:04.915 Even people locally didn't notice, and mine was like, and I'm like, oh my God. 00:24:05.215 --> 00:24:09.145 You know, how dare I to kind of say you bark at nothing, you know? 00:24:09.145 --> 00:24:09.146 Yeah. 00:24:09.151 --> 00:24:09.745 It's like me. 00:24:09.745 --> 00:24:13.105 It's me who is the, who is the ignorant one, right? 00:24:13.105 --> 00:24:17.605 So I think that, that, um, yeah, I think I definitely though, like I will 00:24:17.605 --> 00:24:19.315 never look down on the dog, right. 00:24:19.795 --> 00:24:23.185 I mean, not that that ever kind of looked down on them, but sort of, it's almost 00:24:23.185 --> 00:24:29.305 like a whole new appreciation of, and how they read us, you know, it's, it's just. 00:24:29.990 --> 00:24:30.710 Remarkable. 00:24:31.010 --> 00:24:37.460 What's the, what's the main difference for you between, um, like everything 00:24:37.460 --> 00:24:40.190 we've talked about in relation to dogs? 00:24:41.450 --> 00:24:45.920 Am I totally off track to assume that a lot of that applies to cats as well? 00:24:47.330 --> 00:24:49.250 Zazie: A lot of it does apply to cats as well. 00:24:49.430 --> 00:24:52.820 I think one of the differences is there isn't as much research on 00:24:52.820 --> 00:24:55.460 cats, and I wish there was, but yes. 00:24:55.520 --> 00:24:58.490 So of course thinking about positive experiences for cats, 00:24:58.550 --> 00:25:01.820 cats actually have amazing noses and most people don't realize. 00:25:02.090 --> 00:25:04.610 So you can use scent as enrichment for your cat. 00:25:04.790 --> 00:25:07.010 You can do nose work with your cat if you want. 00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:10.700 You can hide treats for them to use their nose to find, um. 00:25:11.460 --> 00:25:15.090 You can, if you have an indoors only cat, a really good thing to do is to 00:25:15.090 --> 00:25:19.050 make something called a sensory box and get things from outside that are 00:25:19.050 --> 00:25:22.680 safe for the cat to interact with and put them in a box and just bring it 00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.160 into your home and give your cat the choice of interacting with those things. 00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:27.570 And that would include. 00:25:28.325 --> 00:25:30.485 Probably thinks that they would want to sniff as well. 00:25:30.755 --> 00:25:32.945 And then of course everybody knows about cat. 00:25:33.875 --> 00:25:34.715 No, not mice. 00:25:36.905 --> 00:25:38.825 The cat might like that, but we wouldn't like that. 00:25:40.325 --> 00:25:45.065 Um, and then everybody knows about catnip for cats, but there are also some 00:25:45.065 --> 00:25:49.175 other substances that these days we know that cats have a similar response to. 00:25:50.075 --> 00:25:51.575 And it seems to be genetic. 00:25:51.875 --> 00:25:54.575 So if you, even if your cat doesn't respond to catnip, 00:25:54.815 --> 00:25:56.345 'cause that is genetic only. 00:25:56.840 --> 00:25:58.070 Some cats respond to it. 00:25:58.070 --> 00:25:59.150 Most do, but not all. 00:25:59.540 --> 00:26:02.930 Then these other substances, your cat still might respond to some of those. 00:26:02.930 --> 00:26:07.940 So that would be silver vine and Sattari, honeysuckle and Erum, for example. 00:26:08.180 --> 00:26:10.820 Some of which are easier to find in cat toys than others. 00:26:10.820 --> 00:26:13.790 So that's one thing I think a doing a lot more enrichment for 00:26:13.790 --> 00:26:15.380 your cat is a really good idea. 00:26:15.800 --> 00:26:17.660 Um, and so a lot is similar. 00:26:17.660 --> 00:26:19.820 And of course we have to recognize. 00:26:20.570 --> 00:26:24.230 What e every kind of mammal needs, like to feel safe, for example, 00:26:24.230 --> 00:26:27.710 but also we have to recognize the individual needs of the species. 00:26:28.040 --> 00:26:31.970 And one of the things there for cats is that cats don't like to share. 00:26:32.975 --> 00:26:35.885 Um, they're used to having to catch their own food. 00:26:36.065 --> 00:26:40.475 Like if they catch a mouse, it's not big enough to share with their fellow cats. 00:26:40.685 --> 00:26:44.255 So if people have multiple cats, it's really important to make 00:26:44.255 --> 00:26:46.355 sure that food is separated. 00:26:46.895 --> 00:26:50.645 Also, all of their resources are separated so that there's no competition between 00:26:50.645 --> 00:26:54.965 cats so that they can get access to all of their resources without having to 00:26:54.965 --> 00:26:58.355 fight the other cat or the other cat being able to block them or anything like that. 00:26:58.355 --> 00:27:01.145 So that's one of the important things to think about with cats. 00:27:02.030 --> 00:27:05.360 But you can think again though, even in a Multid dog home, you know 00:27:05.360 --> 00:27:08.480 that you want, you don't want your dogs to be fighting over resources. 00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:12.470 So it's kind of similar, but it's even more important for cats because 00:27:12.800 --> 00:27:17.030 cats are used to kind of being, they can be solitary, they can 00:27:17.030 --> 00:27:18.410 manage completely on their own. 00:27:18.860 --> 00:27:19.430 Excuse me. 00:27:20.755 --> 00:27:21.955 Anke: I didn't, I had no idea. 00:27:22.105 --> 00:27:23.480 Yeah, I never even thought of that. 00:27:23.870 --> 00:27:25.250 That's, that's fascinating. 00:27:25.490 --> 00:27:28.940 So I'm not gonna ask you about your next book because. 00:27:29.525 --> 00:27:30.815 I'm gonna have, you're back for that one. 00:27:31.085 --> 00:27:35.290 Uh, so for now, where can people go and, um, find out more, 00:27:35.495 --> 00:27:37.175 more about you, get in touch. 00:27:37.415 --> 00:27:39.605 I mean, obviously she's on Substack, that's where I found her. 00:27:40.625 --> 00:27:44.525 And, uh, you know, where can they go find the books and, and find out? 00:27:44.555 --> 00:27:44.795 Yeah. 00:27:44.795 --> 00:27:45.545 And get in touch with you. 00:27:46.790 --> 00:27:49.010 Zazie: Yeah, so if you're on Substack, you can find me. 00:27:49.010 --> 00:27:51.590 I'm Azzy Todd on Substack, and my newsletter is called 00:27:51.590 --> 00:27:53.180 Companion Animal Psychology. 00:27:53.660 --> 00:27:57.530 For anything else, you can find me on companion animal psychology.com, 00:27:57.950 --> 00:28:01.250 and that's also where you can subscribe to my newsletter and you can find 00:28:01.250 --> 00:28:05.930 details of my podcast, the positive post in conversation, which I run with my 00:28:05.930 --> 00:28:10.940 co-host, Christie Benson, and messages about new episodes go out there, and 00:28:10.940 --> 00:28:12.590 that's also where you'll find links to my. 00:28:12.635 --> 00:28:13.565 YouTube as well. 00:28:13.565 --> 00:28:17.165 So that's the best place to go and the books are available wherever 00:28:17.165 --> 00:28:20.555 books are sold, and bark will be out in paperback on June 10th. 00:28:21.380 --> 00:28:21.830 Anke: Awesome. 00:28:21.830 --> 00:28:26.030 Well, we shall definitely post a note about that to make sure people can get it. 00:28:26.030 --> 00:28:27.200 Well, thank you so much. 00:28:27.500 --> 00:28:31.730 I love how you combined, you know, your original career with the new passion 00:28:31.730 --> 00:28:36.950 and how it all comes together to form this really helpful in informative space 00:28:36.950 --> 00:28:39.560 for, for us dog lovers and cat lovers. 00:28:39.770 --> 00:28:40.850 Zazie: And thank you. 00:28:40.850 --> 00:28:42.710 It's been really fun chatting with you. 00:28:43.580 --> 00:28:44.180 Anke: Thank you. 00:28:45.618 --> 00:28:46.848 Thanks so much for listening. 00:28:47.368 --> 00:28:51.668 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:28:51.768 --> 00:28:53.548 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:28:54.338 --> 00:28:57.828 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:28:58.258 --> 00:29:03.828 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:29:03.928 --> 00:29:06.298 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:29:06.298 --> 00:29:10.028 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:29:10.448 --> 00:29:11.588 I'd love an introduction. 00:29:12.068 --> 00:29:13.898 Email me at Anke. 00:29:14.168 --> 00:29:18.403 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.