Welcome to Digication Scholars Conversations.
I'm your host, Kelly Driscoll.
In this episode, you'll hear part two of my conversation with Janet
VanLone, Assistant Professor in the Education Department and Co-director
in the Center for Social Science Research at Bucknell University.
More links and information about today's conversation can be found on Digication's
Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
Full episodes of Digication Scholars Conversations can be found on
YouTube or your favorite podcast app.
I love that you're thinking along these lines of a, of this kind of process
portfolio, and I do think, you know, as in beginning teaching and in life,
as you mentioned, that there, there are these moments that are incredibly
important in our learning and development.
That are messy and, and are still so relevant to who we
are and what we're doing today.
Even though many may not consider it as something that's kind of the polished
professional version of ourselves that we're, you know, maybe putting out
into the world and in certain contexts.
But I do think that there's incredible value in taking the time to reflect on
those experiences, acknowledge them, um, you know, not every day going into the
classroom is going to go as planned and the way that you wanted and, and, and, and
what we do with that is very important.
And we learn something about ourselves and, you know, how we
might approach the next day or next experience like that differently.
And having some kind of record of that, I think can make those experiences something
that we can look back on With maybe less, um, you know, being less hard on
ourselves, but maybe celebrating some of those experiences because we've been able
to see that growth since that time, you know, what were the tools that I used?
Who are the people that I reached out to?
What are the tools that I use?
How did I come back from that experience?
And make it something that could be more positive in the future.
How did it change me?
How did it change my approach to things?
Um, and I do think that it's these experiences that are also incredibly
valuable when we are in conversations about potential employment opportunities.
Um, and I do think that many people that are hiring are starting to ask questions.
Like this because they want there to be a good fit, you know, they
don't want there to be so much, you know, attrition happening.
They want to be able to retain people and know that they have, you know,
the tools to be able to encounter challenges and, and, and grow from that.
And so, you know, I do think, as you mentioned, your students have created
these incredibly, um, Beautiful representations of what they are and,
you know, who they are, what they have done, the skills that they have, and
it's incredibly valuable to be able to be in a conversation with someone
when they ask you, you know, have you done X, Y, Z to not just talk
about, I can show you right here.
Um, but I love that you're also thinking about how now as an experi...
Now that you've had these few years to use it in the platform in that kind of
manner and, and see its value there to be thinking about it as this kind of
space for maybe more introspection and Reflection on process and, and growth
and, and then they, because they can kind of move things around, you may
find that some students as part of that reflective experience create something
in that environment that they do want to be able to share, but maybe they want to
provide some context around it, right?
It might not be the artifact that aligns to the teaching standard.
But maybe it is something that's going to fit into one of those
other areas about their philosophy or advocacy or why they're doing
the research that they're doing.
So I'm, I'm really excited about that.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, I, I like what you said about like the messy moments kind of being.
Oftentimes being what gets us to where we are, um, but I think sometimes,
you know, as I said, I'm working with undergraduate, traditionally
undergraduate students who are, you know, 18 to 22 years old, give or take.
Um, and.
I think they sometimes come in with this idea that, like, they should,
shouldn't have these messy moments.
That everything should just right.
So, um, I, I always try to model being very authentic and sharing some of
my own moments where, um, you Like, I'm, I'm in this position and care so
deeply about their success as early career teachers because my first year
of teaching, um, my middle school position was extremely challenging.
Um, and, uh, I, I really struggled and I closed my door and wondered
if I was the only one because we weren't really talking about it.
So.
Really having, modeling that for students and then having them share,
encouraging them to really share those moments where they, they struggle and,
and letting them know, like, this is where the growth happens right there,
um, is, is really, really helpful.
Absolutely.
And I think.
You know, as you're sharing that, so many coming into the classroom feeling
like everything is supposed to be going great and, you know, I think that group
of undergraduates, especially, probably has not really been in an environment
before that's going to be celebrating.
The, the messiness, right?
Everything has been about doing something the right way and getting a grade on
it and moving on to the next course.
And, um, yeah, not really having that kind of integrative experience where,
you know, they can take something from here and something from here and, you
know, oh, this mistake I made here.
And then, you know, trying to create those.
Connections and think about how it's going to move them forward.
And I imagine many of them may be coming into this with their own, you know, I just
going back to my undergraduate teaching.
Um, so many didn't.
Really see the value in what they were doing Sometimes didn't understand the
value of what they were doing outside of school even though many of them were
had incredible extracurriculars and volunteering and and also sometimes didn't
see the value in the work that they were creating in their courses because It
wasn't resonating with how it was going to connect with maybe what they were
going to be doing in their career later.
So a lot of it was just kind of building confidence in what they were
doing and helping them recognize that.
You know, what you're doing right now is important.
You're important, the work that you're doing is important, and it's all
part of this journey that you're on.
You know, if you just are always looking at what's next without thinking about
what you're doing now, you can kind of lose sight on the value of the time.
Right now.
Um, absolutely.
Yeah.
So, um, I imagine your s..., your undergraduate students maybe in similar
kinds of mindsets, um, but are already kind of thinking about their careers.
So probably really want things to be going really well.
Because they have an idea that this is what they want to do in the future.
Yeah.
They, they of course want everything to go well.
Um, and I hope that the environment that we create in our classes in the
education department has set the stage for, uh, that, you know, not everything's
going to go well all the time.
And that's okay.
That's all part of the process.
That's, that's.
That's a place where we're going to learn.
Um, so by the time they get to student teaching, um,
they, they are ready for that.
I'm really glad that they, that I have the students a semester prior to
student teaching so that I can have that, that relationship with them.
So kind of right off the bat, they know that, um, you know, I'm not, I'm
not coming in, like, when I come in to observe them, I'm not coming in with,
like, taking notes with my red pen, right?
Um, right.
Um, it's, it's really like a, a.
We have a shared goal to try to, you know, individualize support for them
and get them ready for their first year.
So yeah, you care about that success.
You're not just there to critique.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yep.
That's, that's really important.
Yeah.
I can imagine that.
So, what is it, uh, their kind of day to day like?
We sometimes get questions at Digication, um, especially for students that are
involved in experiential learning and these kind of field work environments,
um, As they're kind of going through this process of student teaching and
putting materials into various pages, you know, what kind of, um, maybe
scaffolding or vice or mentorship do you give them about the kind of
frequency they're putting materials in?
If they're going to be reflecting on the experience, are they, are they
taking like little bullet points and then Elaborating on them earlier.
Are they doing any kind of documentation while they're right in
the classroom, maybe with their phones?
I would love to hear a little bit about what that process is like.
So, we have, um, a number of our, our, the structure of our program,
um, leading up to student teaching.
They have a number of courses that have, like, field components with them.
But Um, in their junior spring, so junior year, spring semester, um, is
when things really ramp up, I'll say.
And they are out, uh, for two full days a week, Tuesdays and Thursdays,
they spend the whole day in a classroom, one classroom, they're
paired with a mentor teacher.
And then they have two full days of classes, um, and
they're taking four courses.
So it's a very busy semester.
So from those For courses, um, and then from the student, from
the student teaching seminar, there's like a seminar component.
That's another course that goes along with the student teaching semester.
I have, I have, and my colleagues who teach those courses have assignments
that, um, we've identified and will recommend that they, um, That
they consider for their portfolio.
Um, but one of the things that I haven't done is given them, I'll let them choose.
So, we've got these competencies in Pennsylvania, um, Planning and
Preparation, Classroom Environment, Knowledge of Diverse Learners, Assessment,
um, Professionalism, um, Instruction.
I think that's it.
Hopefully you got them all.
Oh, that's a relatively short list.
There's some states that I was like, oh my gosh.
Those are the categories, but then the lists within each
of them are pretty extensive.
Yeah, but they just kind of go by each category.
So, I might give examples of assignments that would, um, connect really nicely
to, um, To a certain competency.
So, for example, um, I, I teach a course in explicit instruction and
structured literacy where they're doing some lesson plans in there.
Um, they do a training called reading ready where they're doing
some reading intervention with a student who might need a little
bit more support in the classroom.
So they might, um, they might like show.
assessment, not actual student data, if it was, of course, that we would black out
names or anything, but they would show, like, what they did with Reading Ready.
And I might suggest, like, this might work for knowledge of diverse
learners, but it might also work for planning and preparation.
You could talk about it there, and we kind of talk about that.
So, it's not that I'm dictating that this thing needs to go into this category.
I really want them to think about what it meant for them.
Yeah, and to have a lot of leeway with that, but they have a number
of assignments that they can use.
And then during student teaching, like, there are just so many things
beyond even what we do in somi...
in our student teaching seminar that they would be able to Um, so like, you know,
for professionalism, um, I often recommend that they attend a school board meeting.
Um, so, you know, find out what, what the community is like, find out what
the issues are going on at a, what, what the talk is at a school board meeting.
Um, and, and what are your thoughts on that?
So, you know, and that, that.
Artifact could be something as simple as, like, them standing in front of the
school the night of the school board meeting and then reflecting on that
experience and why, how does that help them to, um, to be a professional in
the field, like understanding their community and the needs of the school
board and that kind of higher level picture of local policy that's happening.
Um, yeah, so.
I don't know if I answered your question because I'm not, I don't know if I'm okay.
Yeah.
You got it.
Okay.
And, um, so as part of that process, so they're thinking through, they have
some suggestions about what areas may have, may align to specific outcomes
or how it was designed to align to some of those, um, teaching standards.
Um, but they can really make a choice if they feel like
there's alignment in other areas.
Absolutely.
Reflection seems to really point that out, you know, if they feel like it's
aligned with more, um, Absolutely.
And we do have, like I have, we have in our handbook, we have a student
teaching handbook or field experience handbook, and we have guidance for, um,
there reflections So we give prompts, um, just some things that they can
think about, ideas for, um, things to think about within each competency.
Um, and I'll also just share that one of One of the things that we do at the end of
the semester, we actually do this twice, but at the very end of the semester, we
invite all of the, uh, our mentor teachers that have been their hosts in their,
in their student teaching placements.
To campus.
And we invite some other pre service teachers.
So those that are kind of coming up to student teaching for a portfolio night
and our students, yeah, our students, um, share their portfolios and, you know, we
kind of do, it's very, it's informal, but they sit at a table and people just kind
of like go around, Oh, what did you do?
And they show, you know, go through their portfolios and talk about
their student teaching semester.
The faculty from our department and all.
All attend as well.
Um, and it really is an opportunity for them to share all the work that they've
done and feel really proud of it and get some really nice feedback for all that
they've done and and have a chance to talk about it, um, to kind of go through
each thing and go back and talk about, um.
What each artifact meant, and, um, they get a lot of good questions as well.
Um, and then we do that again.
Actually, the, the Center for Social Science Research here,
we host an, a, an event for the social sciences that we have.
Both poster presentations, like traditional research poster
presentations and portfolios, um, and our students, our teacher education
students share their portfolios there.
And we also have in our department, um, students who are working towards a
bachelor's in education, but they are not getting a certification and those students
do an internship their senior year.
Um, so, so they share their work as well, um, within their internship.
Oh, nice.
Yeah.
And so what, how, what's the kind of feedback that you hear from maybe
some of the people that aren't part of the education program that are seeing
the results of what they've done?
Oh, well, I think, um, One of the things that I think is nice for me as, you
know, their supervisor and professor is for folks outside of education to
understand all of the hard work that goes into it, um, and seeing it and not
just hearing about it, being able to, like, just When you're, you're seeing a
picture of all that goes into a lesson, um, and then the student work and the
kind of feedback that, um, our student, you know, teachers provide and, um, it
within all of these different areas, um, and they're able to ask questions.
I just think it really highlights.
For our students, um, just that they are going into a field where they are
going to be making a difference, where they're going to be working hard, and
that that's being acknowledged and recognized, I think is really important.
Yeah.
And that reminds me of some of the other kinds of advocacy work that you're doing.
The students are, I don't know if you've been able to pick it back up
since the pandemic, but you're, you had some trips out to DC to meet with
policy makers and I was wanting for you to share a little bit about that and
why that's an important part of what you're trying to show to your students.
Oh, yes, absolutely.
Um, well, I think one of the things that I learned as a classroom teacher
is, um, you are the recipient of policy and sometimes it's hard to figure
out, like, where's this coming from?
Um, and how am I supposed to do this?
These people don't know my students.
This wouldn't work for, you know, how do you have a voice in this field?
Um, and it's so important for teachers to have a voice because they are the
people who are on the front lines and the people who are kind of making the policy,
um, you know, they have very, very well intent intentions for really making a
big difference for kids in classrooms, but they need to know the realities of
what it's like on the, on the ground.
Right.
Um, and when you kind of.
Peek behind the curtain and are able to see that as a pre service
teacher, like what goes on?
How do you talk to people?
Um, it's empowering.
Uh, you can kind of learn when I am, um.
Struggling with something and when something isn't quite making sense
that I can use my voice and how do I do that in a way that's effective?
So, um, with my first couple of groups, we took trips to, um, to Washington, D.
C.
and met with, like, our, our state senators and, um, uh,
you know, local people here.
Um, that group also met.
Jahana Hayes, who was the 2016 Teacher of the Year, which was really exciting.
Um, and then we've also taken trips to Harrisburg.
I also am the faculty advisor for our student PSEA group, which is the
Pennsylvania State Educators Association.
Um, and they do a lot of work around, um, Helping pre service teachers get connected
in the field and advocacy and really understanding how to use, use their voice.
And that's really the, the key part, uh, here, like, what do I do when something
needs to change so that I'm not just sitting there feeling frustrated.
I know that I can use my voice and make a call or send an email.
So, yeah, continuing that being seen, being heard and being
recognized out in the field.
Yes.
Exactly.
Sharing what you're doing.
Keep telling people where there are challenges and absolutely, absolutely.
Well, I know we're getting close to the end of our time today, Janet,
and I just want to thank you again so much for joining me to, to share
your, your story and all the great work that you're doing with your students.
Um, I did want to close out with the last couple of minutes that we have here.
Um, you mentioned a little earlier in the conversation that there's um, You know,
kind of the importance of setting out expectations for the students as they're
beginning this process and that you do have a rubric that you share with them.
One of the questions that we often receive is how students are
assessed in doing this kind of work.
Would you mind sharing a little bit about that?
We do have a rubric.
It's part of our, um, handbook, uh, so, and it's, you know, it's.
Evaluates each competency and whether or not the students have,
um, met the competency or not.
Um, so, yeah, we, we lay out expectations and, and talk about what a good
reflection, what a good artifact is, what a good reflection is, and then
that is all a part of our rubric.
And I think it's also really important to share good models of, um, of.
Previous students who have put together really solid portfolios.
Um, and why explain why this was a good reflection and
why this competency was met.
Um, and another thing that we.
use these portfolios for is our department assessment.
So we actually go into all of our portfolios.
Um, you know, we have to just assess whether or not our department
is, we have departmental goals for our, for our students.
We want to make sure that they're meeting those goals.
And we use the portfolios as a way to assess kind of our department in meeting
our departmental goals for our students.
That's wonderful.
Yeah.
So what is that like?
Do the students, um, submit their portfolios to you and then
does the whole group kind of get together and pull them up or?
Yeah, that's kind of what it looks like.
Um, we, we sort of divvy them up, um, but we definitely have more than
one set of eyes on each portfolio.
And then we have a discussion with our, our partner, uh, who's also looking at
the same portfolio about that portfolio and the competencies and, um, come to
an agreement on whether or not the comp, the, our departmental goals were met.
Um, So, yeah, it's, it's a useful tool for that as well that we're able to
think about, um, our performance, right?
Yeah.
So, we're setting expectations for ourselves and, um, how do we
know if, if they've been met and, and this is one good way, um, to.
To assess that.
Yeah, I remember even in the kind of early days of, uh, creating these
tools, one of the useful things in, uh, evaluating the students portfolios
is very often seeing which, um, teaching standards were, seemed to be
highlighted more often than some others.
So some curriculum adjustments could be made to be sure that, you
know, adequate time was being spent.
On some standards that may not have gotten the same light shed on them as before.
And without having those reflections, you know, I think it may have been,
may not have been addressed as quickly.
So absolutely.
Yeah.
And, and a chance for us to have conversations about our goals and the
competencies and how, where is this happening and how is it happening?
So, yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And have you used any of that at all for any kind of departmental,
um, accreditations or, or program kind of accreditations?
Are there plans for that?
I don't know how often they may roll around there.
Yeah.
Um, I don't think that we have at this point, but that's not a bad idea.
I'm sure if they, if that comes around soon, um, that will be,
uh, Part of the plan . So, yeah.
Well, they can be incredible records of that, uh, for, for that purpose.
And, um, there's some nice ways that they could be, uh, kind of collected
and presented to, um, accreditation teams so that they kind of Absolutely.
You, um.
And tools that they might be able to use to, to, to review them.
So we might have to stay in touch on that point.
That sounds good.
Well, well, thank you so much again for joining me today.
It was so lovely speaking to you and I'm really excited to, to share
your story with our listeners.
Well, thank you so much for having me.
It was really fun.
Good, good.
Take good care.
Thank you.
Bye.