1 00:00:42,636 --> 00:00:43,557 Thanks. 2 00:00:44,161 --> 00:00:55,690 Alright, as I start off uh all these podcasts, uh I always say why go ji cacasa, why good ji ki fate, even if my guest doesn't know what I'm saying and it's uh code language. 3 00:00:55,690 --> 00:01:07,179 But uh today I'm honored uh to have along with us uh good friend of mine from New York, Gary Glee. 4 00:01:07,860 --> 00:01:13,024 That's the right way of pronouncing your last name as people know it right, Gary. 5 00:01:13,309 --> 00:01:17,985 Not really, but you know what that leads into a really interesting story 6 00:01:18,175 --> 00:01:22,196 Okay, well well first what what is what it sh what it should it be? 7 00:01:22,369 --> 00:01:24,087 Gly, G-L-I. 8 00:01:24,507 --> 00:01:25,199 gli. 9 00:01:25,199 --> 00:01:26,632 well why didn't you use a Y? 10 00:01:26,632 --> 00:01:28,014 Okay. 11 00:01:28,014 --> 00:01:28,785 All right. 12 00:01:28,785 --> 00:01:29,308 interesting. 13 00:01:29,308 --> 00:01:31,217 That's interesting. 14 00:01:31,217 --> 00:01:32,310 I should have. 15 00:01:34,199 --> 00:01:37,422 Okay, so why so okay, so that's a good place to start. 16 00:01:37,422 --> 00:01:39,719 Uh what's your interesting story? 17 00:01:39,780 --> 00:01:44,474 Well, you know, as you know, I've been involved in the martial arts my entire life. 18 00:01:44,474 --> 00:01:52,720 um early on uh when I fought in tournaments, as you know, it's really important that you keep your psych up. 19 00:01:53,001 --> 00:02:01,208 And so the first tournament I was in, and it's a Chinese tournament, they really had trouble pronouncing my name. 20 00:02:01,208 --> 00:02:04,551 They said, in the red corner, Gary gook, gook, gook. 21 00:02:04,551 --> 00:02:07,593 And it really destroyed my sight. 22 00:02:08,223 --> 00:02:13,246 So a few days later, I was in the gym with my training partner and I said, Hey, I changed my name. 23 00:02:13,246 --> 00:02:14,277 said to what? 24 00:02:14,277 --> 00:02:15,318 I said, Gly. 25 00:02:15,318 --> 00:02:20,711 I took the three letters in the middle of my last name and I decided that's what I'll call myself. 26 00:02:20,711 --> 00:02:22,122 He said, I love it. 27 00:02:22,282 --> 00:02:27,986 And so the very first tournament after that, they said in the red corner, Gary Glee. 28 00:02:27,986 --> 00:02:29,486 I said, geez. 29 00:02:29,587 --> 00:02:36,112 So, so the next time I signed for a fight, I told the promoter, my name is Gly, not Glee. 30 00:02:36,112 --> 00:02:37,860 He said, Gly, not Glee. 31 00:02:37,860 --> 00:02:39,141 I said, yes. 32 00:02:39,361 --> 00:02:44,445 And uh well, when you know what the next bike, they said in the blue corner, Gary Gill. 33 00:02:44,466 --> 00:02:47,828 I said, man, this is just three letters. 34 00:02:49,651 --> 00:02:58,138 so many years later, I was on Good Morning America and I had told a friend of mine the story and he took me down to the studios. 35 00:02:58,138 --> 00:03:00,019 It was very early in the morning. 36 00:03:00,100 --> 00:03:04,864 And I believe it was Jane Hansen at the time that ran that show. 37 00:03:05,292 --> 00:03:10,715 And she said, this morning in the studio, have two guests, Dwayne Hyatt and Gary Glee. 38 00:03:10,716 --> 00:03:20,762 And I looked at the doors where this friend of mine was standing and he just fell down laughing, you So it's been a long history of not being able to get this name correct. 39 00:03:20,762 --> 00:03:21,891 So no worries. 40 00:03:21,891 --> 00:03:23,783 gonna be I'm gonna be doing the same thing. 41 00:03:23,783 --> 00:03:32,388 I know whenever that stuff like this happens, I I I I just so I'll probably end up calling you Gary Glee, no matter what you say to me. 42 00:03:32,388 --> 00:03:36,601 It's already you've already got me g a little crazy about it. 43 00:03:36,601 --> 00:03:38,652 So it's Gary Gly. 44 00:03:38,652 --> 00:03:39,503 And thank thanks. 45 00:03:39,503 --> 00:03:41,494 I I actually didn't know that. 46 00:03:42,175 --> 00:03:51,040 And and and No, and actually I've always even you're even in my contact list on your I think you're probably your born 47 00:03:51,073 --> 00:03:52,655 uh last name. 48 00:03:52,876 --> 00:03:59,365 So I wasn't even I wasn't totally tuned into the you know, you having kind of a stage name as they say. 49 00:03:59,365 --> 00:04:01,869 So oh wow. 50 00:04:01,869 --> 00:04:06,235 So you know um by the way how did how did you get on Good Morning America? 51 00:04:06,235 --> 00:04:07,296 What was that about 52 00:04:07,714 --> 00:04:12,914 Well, I also had a lengthy career as a professional musician. 53 00:04:13,374 --> 00:04:16,974 And I did some acting in between. 54 00:04:17,174 --> 00:04:27,934 So the manager of the band, was a, this is prior to all these dating services that we have now, I mean, this is probably early 1990s. 55 00:04:27,934 --> 00:04:30,754 There was a book out called The Bachelor Book. 56 00:04:31,134 --> 00:04:36,616 And women would subscribe to it and every month they would feature different bachelors. 57 00:04:36,616 --> 00:04:38,587 and a way to contact them, et cetera. 58 00:04:38,587 --> 00:04:44,630 uh I had no interest in doing that, but I did want to get on the Good Morning America show. 59 00:04:44,810 --> 00:04:53,675 So um the woman who owned the bachelor book wanted our band to give her a very special deal. 60 00:04:53,675 --> 00:05:02,450 And I said, there's no way I'm going to give her 50 % off, but we'll give them a break of about 15 % if she uses me on the show. 61 00:05:02,450 --> 00:05:04,021 And so that's how it went. 62 00:05:04,021 --> 00:05:06,657 So I thought it would be good exposure for me. 63 00:05:06,657 --> 00:05:09,097 Um, which it was for a while. 64 00:05:09,677 --> 00:05:16,957 Uh, locally I had some fame, you know, people would stop me and say, Hey, weren't you the guy on, you know, good morning America? 65 00:05:16,957 --> 00:05:19,637 And, and I also was on the Ricky Lake show. 66 00:05:19,637 --> 00:05:22,637 This is early 1990s, 91, 92. 67 00:05:22,637 --> 00:05:25,034 So, um, yeah, just the. 68 00:05:25,034 --> 00:05:28,488 she was uh what was the name of that movie she was in? 69 00:05:28,488 --> 00:05:29,798 I forgot. 70 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:34,444 It was in Baltimore, Greece, was it? 71 00:05:35,406 --> 00:05:40,512 Was it Yeah, she was yeah, Ricky Lake, she was she was she was in a movie. 72 00:05:40,512 --> 00:05:42,929 I forgot the name of it, but it was a big movie. 73 00:05:42,929 --> 00:05:46,412 Yeah, I remember it well, but I can't remember the name either. 74 00:05:46,412 --> 00:05:49,315 So I guess it wasn't that uh impactful. 75 00:05:49,315 --> 00:05:51,997 uh yeah, I remember she was in that. 76 00:05:51,997 --> 00:05:55,060 But she had a show running for quite a long time. 77 00:05:55,060 --> 00:06:01,306 And early on, they would reshow a lot of the broadcasts. 78 00:06:01,306 --> 00:06:06,877 So I must have been on 15 times the first month because they kept showing it. 79 00:06:06,877 --> 00:06:10,069 to I'm gonna have to do a Google search on this, right? 80 00:06:12,012 --> 00:06:23,040 You know, my my uh my claim to fame about the time that we met in New York years ago was I I actually got on the what what's what's her name? 81 00:06:23,801 --> 00:06:25,292 Martha Stewart Show. 82 00:06:25,490 --> 00:06:26,723 Oh, okay. 83 00:06:27,725 --> 00:06:29,616 So that was my little claim to fame. 84 00:06:29,616 --> 00:06:35,290 That was that was a very that was after after she was convicted of whatever she was convicted of. 85 00:06:35,630 --> 00:06:37,011 After she was convicted. 86 00:06:37,011 --> 00:06:50,820 So I found my I found myself on the Martha Stewart show and they um I don't know how exactly that happened, but they wanted me to show something, some kind of meditation on 87 00:06:50,820 --> 00:06:52,865 the yeah, yeah, on the Martha Stewart show. 88 00:06:52,865 --> 00:06:57,245 Uh but I didn't know that they were gonna have um 89 00:06:57,347 --> 00:07:07,013 These different people from different schools of yoga doing what they I guess thought was exotic yoga thing. 90 00:07:07,013 --> 00:07:17,370 So I'd be teaching this meditation and above me is somebody like floating over the top of my head doing acro, acro yoga. 91 00:07:18,531 --> 00:07:26,266 And I was very hard for I remember it was like hard for me to concentrate and teach this meditation because I thought at any second this person would like drop and fall on my 92 00:07:26,266 --> 00:07:27,076 head. 93 00:07:27,197 --> 00:07:27,944 you 94 00:07:27,944 --> 00:07:34,759 And um yeah that was that was that was an interesting you with Ricky Lake and me with Martha Stewart. 95 00:07:34,759 --> 00:07:39,367 Okay, so we we have some background there. 96 00:07:39,367 --> 00:07:43,761 Well, I'll give you some cred because at least you were doing something to do with meditation. 97 00:07:43,761 --> 00:07:54,750 Here I was uh posing as this bachelor looking for a date, but uh I just thought it would be good career move because I did do a few movies that were interesting back in the day 98 00:07:54,750 --> 00:07:57,933 and uh it was a fun thing to do. 99 00:07:58,093 --> 00:08:06,701 I really had a knack for playing characters and uh you know, if my life had worked out a little differently, I might have... 100 00:08:06,701 --> 00:08:07,541 uh 101 00:08:07,931 --> 00:08:19,908 done acting full time, but you know, playing music, you sometimes finish gigs at two, three in the morning and you know, early calls for casting calls are at six. 102 00:08:19,908 --> 00:08:24,421 I had to make a choice as to which one of those things I wanted to put my attention into. 103 00:08:24,421 --> 00:08:30,314 So uh I did acting sporadically, but it was something I enjoyed a lot. 104 00:08:31,159 --> 00:08:33,033 I forget w what instrument did you play? 105 00:08:33,033 --> 00:08:33,891 I forgot. 106 00:08:33,891 --> 00:08:35,315 I know you told me. 107 00:08:36,061 --> 00:08:37,861 Yeah, I play guitar. 108 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,632 Just like like lead guitar, like like rock and roll. 109 00:08:44,112 --> 00:08:54,156 Well, yeah, I played rock and roll, most of the bands that I toured with and worked with were uh R &B acts. 110 00:08:54,157 --> 00:08:58,018 And you play both rhythm and lead, depending. 111 00:08:58,018 --> 00:09:00,670 um And it was a big part of my life. 112 00:09:00,670 --> 00:09:05,872 I I was on the road a lot for once, then for almost 12 years. 113 00:09:05,872 --> 00:09:06,162 Yeah. 114 00:09:06,162 --> 00:09:10,745 um 115 00:09:10,745 --> 00:09:22,673 both of us went on to do different things a little later in life, but uh you know, sometimes people forget we kinda had like a very different life when we were younger and 116 00:09:22,673 --> 00:09:28,036 did different kinds of things that kind of are part of the fabric of our life. 117 00:09:28,337 --> 00:09:35,261 And uh I know I know in my case uh sometimes I d I think people don't pay attention to it or 118 00:09:35,349 --> 00:09:43,261 don't care, but I I basically am who I am today as a result of doing all these like crazy things when I was younger, right? 119 00:09:44,099 --> 00:09:46,600 Absolutely, absolutely. 120 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,641 I mean, I'll even say this, Harinam, which is interesting. 121 00:09:50,641 --> 00:10:05,237 I always knew deep down that the truth of anything I was doing, whether it was music or martial arts, was really about raising my own consciousness and awareness as to who my 122 00:10:05,237 --> 00:10:07,488 authentic self really was. 123 00:10:07,488 --> 00:10:13,732 And so that thread never died, even though I did various things, whether it was playing some small movie parts, 124 00:10:13,732 --> 00:10:17,064 playing music, teaching classes and seminars. 125 00:10:17,184 --> 00:10:19,686 That was really the subtext to everything. 126 00:10:19,686 --> 00:10:33,645 And now what I'm just doing boldly, you know, it's now all of my writing and teaching and is all basically about finding the authentic self and recognizing that that is the inner 127 00:10:33,645 --> 00:10:38,418 purpose that we all share, regardless of our outer purpose, right? 128 00:10:38,698 --> 00:10:42,999 You know, playing music, someone could be a janitor, I think. 129 00:10:42,999 --> 00:10:57,354 I think it was in the movie, uh it was a Dan Millman book, uh trying to think of the name, but uh Nick Nolte played the part of a uh mechanic. 130 00:10:57,595 --> 00:11:04,307 at one point in the book, this young guy seeks him out and he's coaching him on life. 131 00:11:04,307 --> 00:11:10,239 And the guy, you know, at one point turns on him and says, you're just a mechanic or whatever. 132 00:11:10,239 --> 00:11:12,640 And Nick Nolte turns to him and says, no. 133 00:11:12,737 --> 00:11:14,959 I'm in the service business. 134 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:25,814 And I thought that was very interesting because when you're truly in the service of other people, uh helping them to find their higher self, that's the greatest thing we can offer. 135 00:11:25,814 --> 00:11:34,020 And it doesn't matter what we do externally, whether we're a janitor or a teacher, you know, if the subtext is that. 136 00:11:34,175 --> 00:11:41,237 I think you can relate to this 'cause I I think we have um this in common. 137 00:11:41,237 --> 00:11:51,391 I think it's one reason we kind of hit it off when we met each other is that, you know, even though we're we're kind of doing similar things at this stage of our lives, I think 138 00:11:51,391 --> 00:12:02,525 both of us have done like a lot of different things, have seen a lot of different things, have been a little out of the box, very uh extroverted social people and 139 00:12:04,139 --> 00:12:16,853 one way that I've always been as an adult, and it was actually validated my by my uh own spiritual teacher who was very much like this, and I could see that people really didn't 140 00:12:16,853 --> 00:12:21,125 get it, the people around me, but I got it because I was already that way. 141 00:12:21,125 --> 00:12:32,409 Is that the one thing that I really saw from my own spiritual teacher was that like myself, uh he was actually interested in everything and everybody. 142 00:12:32,717 --> 00:12:39,338 So he he he may not have known everything about everything, but he knew a little about everything. 143 00:12:39,539 --> 00:12:53,722 And he was interested in everybody, which meant that it didn't matter who he crossed pairs with, he'd have something in common that that he could very easily win people over because 144 00:12:53,762 --> 00:12:59,983 he could talk about what not what he wanted to talk about, he could talk about what they wanted to talk about. 145 00:13:00,377 --> 00:13:01,877 And I 146 00:13:01,978 --> 00:13:07,522 have kind of found my wheelhouse doing that too and and I've always felt you're kind of very similar. 147 00:13:07,522 --> 00:13:14,177 We've done a lot of different things, but it's it's really helped us in uh in in the long run. 148 00:13:14,778 --> 00:13:18,300 even even now later I I'm you know seventy four now. 149 00:13:18,300 --> 00:13:20,642 I don't know how that happened. 150 00:13:20,642 --> 00:13:22,233 That kind of rushed on me quickly. 151 00:13:22,233 --> 00:13:25,996 I think life's been very slow, but the last couple of years seemed a little quicker. 152 00:13:25,996 --> 00:13:27,907 But I I'm seventy four now. 153 00:13:28,907 --> 00:13:32,409 And just two years ago I took up the electric bass. 154 00:13:33,269 --> 00:13:38,992 And yeah, yeah, I've always wanted to do that, and now I got a little more time on my hands. 155 00:13:38,992 --> 00:13:44,435 And it's just interesting learning that at this time in my life. 156 00:13:46,016 --> 00:13:48,848 and it's as you know, you're a musician. 157 00:13:48,848 --> 00:13:57,482 It's uh I think that and learning languages are are just very good for keeping your brain uh flexible and fluid. 158 00:13:57,567 --> 00:13:59,208 So it's been actually helpful to me. 159 00:13:59,208 --> 00:14:00,058 Not not easy. 160 00:14:00,058 --> 00:14:03,159 I it's it's making me to go in a little different directions. 161 00:14:03,159 --> 00:14:05,680 But but it's kinda you know, it's kinda fun. 162 00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:11,062 I I mean I can't believe at seventy four I can kinda hang in there and play the girl for me Benemis. 163 00:14:11,062 --> 00:14:19,835 So, you know, that I I I'm just tickled by just the idea that I I can do it. 164 00:14:19,835 --> 00:14:26,916 And well, you know, I don't wanna get too far off here 'cause you know, we could talk and do talk about everything, but 165 00:14:26,916 --> 00:14:39,664 I happen to have you on this show right now and I I kinda trust you're gonna be a regular here because uh frankly, um, you know, I know zillions of people, but I mean to be honest, 166 00:14:39,664 --> 00:14:45,418 you're you are and you have been one of the most interesting people that I know. 167 00:14:45,698 --> 00:14:52,102 And so you know, that that's that counts a lot in my book. 168 00:14:52,102 --> 00:14:55,985 And so you're kind of guy we could talk about anything at any time. 169 00:14:55,985 --> 00:14:56,825 So 170 00:14:57,315 --> 00:15:07,419 and y and you you've kind of pushed the envelope like I have and and finding yourself uh also of of help to other people because of who you are. 171 00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:18,564 I don't think I we talked much about this show that I'm actually doing, maybe a little bit, but I you know I this this actually started when I was back in New York, by the way. 172 00:15:18,564 --> 00:15:21,275 Uh I may not even have shared it with you. 173 00:15:21,275 --> 00:15:25,387 This was when like podcasting was just beginning. 174 00:15:25,761 --> 00:15:29,163 And actually, this this go off. 175 00:15:29,163 --> 00:15:30,304 I'm going off. 176 00:15:30,304 --> 00:15:36,428 Uh, this was a little bit of an outtake of the Martha Stewart show. 177 00:15:36,428 --> 00:15:41,271 Because on the Martha Stewart show, I met the niece of Martha Stewart. 178 00:15:42,072 --> 00:15:53,179 She knew some she knew somebody who was in the podcasting uh business back when it just was starting out, kind of a very irreverent 179 00:15:55,490 --> 00:15:58,541 Kind of feminist kind of person. 180 00:15:59,822 --> 00:16:03,364 and not not the niece, but this person in the podcast. 181 00:16:03,865 --> 00:16:12,779 And uh and then she landed up taking uh Martha Stewart's niece took me in to meet this podcast. 182 00:16:12,779 --> 00:16:25,546 So the podcast was kind of fascinated with where I was coming from, invited me to do a podcast with her, okay, and gave me the choice of naming it what I wanted to name it. 183 00:16:25,725 --> 00:16:39,069 And I said, well, let's call it the warrior saint, because that's kind of like the prototype of somebody who who walks the spiritual path that I do, which is called the 184 00:16:39,069 --> 00:16:42,200 Khalsa, which was developed 300 years ago. 185 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:48,021 And the prototypical Khalsa is the prototypical uh warrior saint. 186 00:16:48,021 --> 00:16:54,373 And so uh it was really interesting getting uh interviewed by somebody so irreverent. 187 00:16:54,783 --> 00:16:56,405 Always challenging me. 188 00:16:56,405 --> 00:16:57,165 But I liked it. 189 00:16:57,165 --> 00:16:58,356 I wasn't intimidated. 190 00:16:58,356 --> 00:17:05,293 She she could always challenge me, but I always knew that in the end I'd come up up top, you know, it didn't bother me. 191 00:17:05,293 --> 00:17:06,994 I liked the challenge. 192 00:17:06,994 --> 00:17:12,139 And she was always questioning anything I had to say, but it was just fun. 193 00:17:12,139 --> 00:17:16,093 But that ended and that kind of rested in peace. 194 00:17:16,093 --> 00:17:19,986 But then with all this new technology that we've been talking about. 195 00:17:20,212 --> 00:17:22,203 I thought, hey, you I got some time in my hands. 196 00:17:22,203 --> 00:17:24,344 You know, I'm gonna revive the Warrior Saint. 197 00:17:24,344 --> 00:17:32,288 I'm gonna do it myself, but it's not gonna just be like a an audio podcast with I'm gonna make a video podcast out of this. 198 00:17:32,789 --> 00:17:41,193 And um I'm I'm I'm not gonna push, I'm just gonna have conversations with really interesting people. 199 00:17:41,673 --> 00:17:45,435 Let the conversation have a life of its own. 200 00:17:45,435 --> 00:17:47,856 And as you know from this conversation, no no 201 00:17:49,267 --> 00:17:50,788 This conversation's not planned. 202 00:17:50,788 --> 00:17:52,298 We don't know what we're gonna talk about. 203 00:17:52,298 --> 00:17:53,979 We're just hanging out. 204 00:17:54,299 --> 00:18:05,213 But I'm trying to bring in people who are visionary people, trusting the conversation will go where the conversation wants it to go, not where I want it to go, but ultimately with 205 00:18:05,213 --> 00:18:15,628 the hope that it finds its footing somehow and it kind of gets back to uh what the title of the podcast is, which is Warrior Saint. 206 00:18:15,628 --> 00:18:16,908 And so 207 00:18:17,982 --> 00:18:32,190 You know, you came to mind because uh even though you're not specifically doing what I'm doing, I sense I've always sensed that we're doing very similar things, that we have a 208 00:18:32,190 --> 00:18:35,041 similar worldview. 209 00:18:35,302 --> 00:18:40,784 And so you're kind of like to me, like a brother in arms in in this way. 210 00:18:41,066 --> 00:18:46,510 I just got back from two months uh tour, teaching tour in South America. 211 00:18:46,811 --> 00:18:59,861 And and at this stage of my life, everything that I'm teaching is in the context of the paradigm of encouraging people to live as a warrior saint and actually giving them 212 00:18:59,861 --> 00:19:02,093 specific direction on how to do that. 213 00:19:02,093 --> 00:19:08,484 That that's actually the best life, th is living like a warrior saint, uh both in your 214 00:19:08,484 --> 00:19:11,716 experience and how you conduct yourself and how you see yourself. 215 00:19:11,716 --> 00:19:14,948 And it's just a very integrated package. 216 00:19:15,169 --> 00:19:20,722 And then I came back from that and now I'm kind of uh a little bored and not knowing what to do with myself. 217 00:19:20,722 --> 00:19:30,559 So good, I'm gonna talk with guys like Gary and and see what they're up to because I think this is kind of the future of things. 218 00:19:30,559 --> 00:19:36,327 And one of the things that's really kind of come to my attention is kind of actually um 219 00:19:36,327 --> 00:19:39,608 Present this in what's going on in the world today. 220 00:19:39,608 --> 00:19:51,884 And I really see, even though it's from 300 years ago and it originated in India with the great Gudagobind Singh, the tenth master of the S of the Sikh faith, um to somebody who 221 00:19:51,884 --> 00:20:00,607 doesn't know anything about it, I often like to describe this as basically a way to live a life that's very stoic. 222 00:20:00,607 --> 00:20:04,919 It's like it's almost like Greek stoicism with devotion. 223 00:20:05,805 --> 00:20:14,621 And I'm at the point that you know I've taught yoga and meditation for 50 years, but at this stage of my life, this is kind of the intro to where I'm really wanting to hear more 224 00:20:14,621 --> 00:20:17,263 about what you're doing and what you've done. 225 00:20:17,263 --> 00:20:28,732 Is that uh, and you know me well, so you wouldn't be surprised, is that, and maybe we'll even collaborate on that, on all of this together physically, you know, is that um at this 226 00:20:28,732 --> 00:20:32,184 stage of my life, I don't teach yoga meditation. 227 00:20:32,184 --> 00:20:41,669 If the person is not practicing some form of martial arts, and I don't and I can teach martial arts as well now, but I don't teach martial arts unless somebody's willing to 228 00:20:41,669 --> 00:20:43,199 meditate and pray. 229 00:20:43,260 --> 00:20:48,032 So it's to me, I can't it's not one or the other, it's both. 230 00:20:48,032 --> 00:20:55,526 It's that that you're you're a warrior and you're a saint and it has to be seamlessly integrated water and water. 231 00:20:55,526 --> 00:20:58,948 And I think this is really where the future is. 232 00:20:58,948 --> 00:21:01,317 I think there's gonna be a lot of interest in this too. 233 00:21:01,317 --> 00:21:04,737 I think it's the right time, the right place, and I I'm excited. 234 00:21:04,737 --> 00:21:06,977 I almost feel like I'm reborn here. 235 00:21:06,977 --> 00:21:11,941 It just got really jolt of energy, how much and how much interest there is in this. 236 00:21:11,941 --> 00:21:13,882 So blah blah blah blah. 237 00:21:13,882 --> 00:21:15,243 It gives a little background. 238 00:21:15,243 --> 00:21:17,804 So, you know, I invited you on today. 239 00:21:17,804 --> 00:21:23,366 I didn't have like an agenda, but of course, the title of this is Warrior Saint. 240 00:21:23,366 --> 00:21:30,767 I know that you've done a lot about it, and I'd uh I'd be really thrilled if you could share with our audience uh 241 00:21:30,767 --> 00:21:39,798 you know, your whole whatever you want to share about it, 'cause I know that that you like me are are very dedicated to uh passing on that worldview. 242 00:21:41,213 --> 00:21:50,476 Yeah, you know, it's incredibly interesting that you just made the comment you did that you won't teach yoga unless someone's willing to do martial arts and you won't teach 243 00:21:50,476 --> 00:21:52,806 martial arts unless they're willing to pray. 244 00:21:52,806 --> 00:22:05,830 And ah I just had a conversation last week and I was making a distinction with someone who is, you know, been studying yoga and practicing yoga for years. 245 00:22:05,948 --> 00:22:10,130 And I made the distinction that the martial arts offer something that yoga can't. 246 00:22:10,130 --> 00:22:11,721 And he said, what's that? 247 00:22:12,442 --> 00:22:16,084 And I said, objectivity, which is incredibly important. 248 00:22:16,084 --> 00:22:17,625 And here's what I mean by that. 249 00:22:17,625 --> 00:22:19,465 Many people could take a yoga class. 250 00:22:19,465 --> 00:22:22,127 Now look, it's baked in. 251 00:22:22,207 --> 00:22:35,076 If you take a yoga class and you are of the mindset that you're going to surrender to what the asanas are saying to us, and we're going to conform to that, 252 00:22:35,076 --> 00:22:42,911 against our own proclivities, tendencies, and compulsions, then we're doing really profound yoga. 253 00:22:43,111 --> 00:22:45,773 But there's nothing to hold our feet to the fire. 254 00:22:45,773 --> 00:22:59,432 So if someone were to go into a yoga class and the yoga teacher were to say, hey, turn your foot out about 45 degrees more, if you're not compliant, you can easily say, no, that 255 00:22:59,432 --> 00:23:00,392 doesn't speak to me. 256 00:23:00,392 --> 00:23:03,764 Intuitively, I like keeping my foot here. 257 00:23:04,743 --> 00:23:12,816 Hence, you're not really surrendering and letting the asana speak to you, but you could justify that in your own head. 258 00:23:13,157 --> 00:23:16,338 In martial arts, you don't have that luxury. 259 00:23:16,358 --> 00:23:27,603 If you're doing jujitsu, for example, which I've studied and taught for probably 30 years now, and you're stuck on the bottom with someone that's holding you down on top, and 260 00:23:27,603 --> 00:23:33,710 you're having trouble getting out, and the instructor comes by and says, turn your foot out a little bit. 261 00:23:33,710 --> 00:23:43,342 and point your knee in this direction, well, you can take that subjective view that, no, that doesn't feel right to me, but I'll guarantee you, you'll never get out from the 262 00:23:43,342 --> 00:23:44,302 bottom. 263 00:23:44,783 --> 00:23:55,285 This is a game of physics, and by placing your feet in a particular position, turning your knees, really paying attention to the same structure that's available to us in yoga, 264 00:23:55,285 --> 00:24:02,967 except you have someone who's non-compliant on top of you, you're gonna need to subscribe. 265 00:24:03,013 --> 00:24:04,544 to the posturing. 266 00:24:04,544 --> 00:24:08,047 And so you don't have the luxury of looking at it subjectively. 267 00:24:08,047 --> 00:24:13,391 If you get out, then you objectively fulfilled what the martial art was teaching you. 268 00:24:13,692 --> 00:24:16,994 If you don't, then you didn't learn anything. 269 00:24:16,994 --> 00:24:28,123 And that's the beautiful thing is that, but you know, Hari Nam, m I also see in the martial art field, because look, uh we're living in an era now where everybody can put 270 00:24:28,123 --> 00:24:31,145 out, uh you know, content. 271 00:24:31,145 --> 00:24:31,956 uh 272 00:24:31,956 --> 00:24:37,750 through social media and a lot of people do and not all of it is bona fide. 273 00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:48,996 I see a lot of stuff that that really wouldn't stand up because a lot of times you'll see demonstrations where the what they call the uki the person that's helping you do the 274 00:24:48,996 --> 00:24:51,598 demonstration is very compliant. 275 00:24:51,598 --> 00:24:58,542 Now there's a place for that but things are very different when that person in front of you is not compliant. 276 00:24:58,820 --> 00:25:00,310 How do you now improvise? 277 00:25:00,310 --> 00:25:12,433 What knowledge have you inculcated that enables you to make decisions predicated on where the weight is, what your surroundings are, so many other confounding variables. 278 00:25:12,433 --> 00:25:19,015 And so martial arts does offer something that's very unique as opposed to yoga. 279 00:25:19,155 --> 00:25:28,357 And yoga does offer the other elements, as you say, of breathwork and prayer uh that I also think is important if... 280 00:25:28,621 --> 00:25:35,345 What we're looking to do is find authentic nature, which is our God self. 281 00:25:35,345 --> 00:25:38,487 That's really what this is all about for me. 282 00:25:38,487 --> 00:25:51,335 That's what I meant when I said before, whether I was playing music or teaching, it was always about coming to the deeper understanding that I am an aspect of God. 283 00:25:51,335 --> 00:25:53,036 am inseparable. 284 00:25:53,096 --> 00:25:54,379 And that... 285 00:25:54,379 --> 00:26:04,292 trumps any kind of strategy, clever strategies that we try to learn and implement to find our deeper sense of peace. 286 00:26:04,293 --> 00:26:05,643 They always fall short. 287 00:26:05,643 --> 00:26:15,937 There is no way of finding peace unless you at least move towards the truth of your inseparability from God and what that means. 288 00:26:15,937 --> 00:26:24,540 uh So it's very interesting that you brought that up because I do think martial arts offers us uh a reality check. 289 00:26:24,544 --> 00:26:25,641 You know, we have to... 290 00:26:25,641 --> 00:26:31,854 So you've been you've been uh practicing and teaching for decades, as you were saying. 291 00:26:31,915 --> 00:26:39,799 So you're integrating your practice and teachings of martial arts 292 00:26:41,764 --> 00:26:55,028 into all these aspects of your life is has it been f that from the beginning or has that been something organic over the years that has just increased and increased, or was it 293 00:26:55,028 --> 00:26:56,909 that way right from the beginning? 294 00:26:57,911 --> 00:26:59,362 That's a very interesting question. 295 00:26:59,362 --> 00:27:01,212 I would say it was a little bit of both. 296 00:27:01,212 --> 00:27:07,084 But if I'm being honest, the first thing that drew me to the martial arts was I wanted to be a badass. 297 00:27:07,084 --> 00:27:14,617 I wanted to, you know, uh raise the status of my ego, like any young man would or teenager. 298 00:27:14,617 --> 00:27:25,641 um And so organically over the years, your ego will fall by the wayside because of the objectivity of the training. 299 00:27:25,641 --> 00:27:27,518 You know, if you get knocked out, 300 00:27:27,518 --> 00:27:31,791 or you get knocked down or you tap out, there's no way to justify that later. 301 00:27:31,791 --> 00:27:34,243 You can try, but you sound kind of silly. 302 00:27:34,243 --> 00:27:37,546 ah You lost, you have to accept that. 303 00:27:37,626 --> 00:27:51,397 What I would say was a little bit different is, you know, um the book Outliers was a very interesting read for me uh because it points to things that you wouldn't normally connect 304 00:27:51,397 --> 00:27:53,659 that kind of get you to where you are. 305 00:27:53,659 --> 00:27:57,482 So when you say, it that way from the beginning for me? 306 00:27:58,354 --> 00:28:09,503 Not exactly, but very early on, before I ventured down to Chinatown to study at the Southern Praying Mantis School, uh this was the mid-70s. 307 00:28:09,964 --> 00:28:22,234 And right around the time that I was getting ready to do that, there was this, uh you know, nighttime show, I'm sure you'll remember it, with David Carradine called Kung Fu. 308 00:28:22,836 --> 00:28:24,977 Yeah, and so... 309 00:28:24,977 --> 00:28:28,719 I was exposed to that spiritual element right from the beginning. 310 00:28:28,719 --> 00:28:39,205 was very intrigued by some of the uh scenes from the Shaolin Temple and how they brought the spirituality into the art itself. 311 00:28:39,205 --> 00:28:50,051 So even though, yes, I wanted to be able to defend myself and have some street cred, I was still enamored by that kind of spiritual element. 312 00:28:50,051 --> 00:28:53,993 So it was a little bit of both for me right from the beginning. 313 00:28:53,993 --> 00:28:54,812 kind of... 314 00:28:54,812 --> 00:29:07,098 You know, I was intrigued by that and I recognized that when you subscribe to that kind of spirituality of being one with the universe, universal power, God, infinite intelligence, 315 00:29:07,399 --> 00:29:11,121 whatever you call it, you're going to be the best you can be. 316 00:29:11,121 --> 00:29:17,505 Trying to do it on your own, you will never measure up because that's not what the greater part of us is. 317 00:29:17,505 --> 00:29:24,148 You know, this mask we wear in this uniform, this body is very temporary. 318 00:29:24,286 --> 00:29:27,599 part of the world, it's not part of the kingdom. 319 00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:33,484 uh so early on, I kind of was very connected to that. 320 00:29:33,584 --> 00:29:40,831 And just one other thing, to be honest, I always had a deep prayer practice from the time I was a child. 321 00:29:40,831 --> 00:29:50,639 Now, albeit, I prayed to uh a man in the sky, sort of, an anthropomorphized God, uh where that's changed a little bit for me. 322 00:29:50,639 --> 00:29:51,680 I don't... 323 00:29:51,940 --> 00:29:54,462 see God in an anthropomorphized way. 324 00:29:54,462 --> 00:29:56,243 It's a bit more abstract. 325 00:29:56,243 --> 00:29:58,184 We can talk about that in a moment. 326 00:29:58,184 --> 00:30:04,889 But in spite of that, I felt that I was being heard in my prayers. 327 00:30:04,889 --> 00:30:09,112 And my prayers were always for someone else, never for myself. 328 00:30:09,112 --> 00:30:11,243 I never prayed for anything for me. 329 00:30:11,243 --> 00:30:21,169 I prayed that my parents would stay alive, that my brother would be healthy, that, you know, my prayers, even when I blew out candles on a birthday cake. 330 00:30:21,169 --> 00:30:24,864 my wishes were always a bit more altruistic. 331 00:30:24,864 --> 00:30:27,678 It was never about me wanting something for myself. 332 00:30:27,678 --> 00:30:33,436 So the martial arts and that kind of spirituality blended in my early years. 333 00:30:33,436 --> 00:30:37,751 And so it remained the subtext of my journey until today. 334 00:30:38,585 --> 00:30:40,746 What do you what do you think about 335 00:30:42,485 --> 00:31:00,972 Uh especially among younger people today, that there seems to be interest in martial arts in what is taking the form mostly of mixed martial arts, for instance. 336 00:31:01,273 --> 00:31:12,385 And there doesn't seem to be, I mean, from my view, at least w the commercial side of it, what I'm seeing on the television screen, uh 337 00:31:12,478 --> 00:31:17,630 it seems to be almost taking the worst of what's there. 338 00:31:18,170 --> 00:31:30,975 And it's not actually i I mean, to its credit, it teaches people how to defend themselves, which they should be able to, and to discipline themselves. 339 00:31:30,975 --> 00:31:40,535 But um the people who are the best known people in this form of martial arts don't 340 00:31:40,535 --> 00:31:43,196 come off as being particularly inspiring. 341 00:31:43,197 --> 00:31:58,557 In fact, they look like actually they're they're they're taking something that could be used uh as very elevating and they're using it in a very demeaning uh to my view demeaning 342 00:31:58,557 --> 00:32:10,391 way and dehumanizing way and not an elevating way and as somebody who's spent their life teaching it, what what's your opinion of what's going on in in 343 00:32:10,391 --> 00:32:11,071 Yeah. 344 00:32:12,206 --> 00:32:14,806 Well, I couldn't possibly agree with you more. 345 00:32:14,806 --> 00:32:16,927 uh It's painful to see that. 346 00:32:16,927 --> 00:32:20,398 In fact, I was a huge fan of MMA early on. 347 00:32:20,398 --> 00:32:21,626 I tend not to watch it. 348 00:32:21,626 --> 00:32:27,080 There's a lot about it I don't like, but everything is a double-edged sword. 349 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,050 And I'll tell you what I do think it did accomplish. 350 00:32:30,131 --> 00:32:34,112 You know, again, I studied in Chinatown early on. 351 00:32:34,112 --> 00:32:35,919 uh spent 352 00:32:35,919 --> 00:32:39,961 uh countless hours in the Chinese theaters watching Chinese movies. 353 00:32:39,961 --> 00:32:46,565 um And, you know, there's a lot of uh hype to that too. 354 00:32:46,565 --> 00:32:48,746 Stuff that really wouldn't work. 355 00:32:48,746 --> 00:32:58,891 And I think, and you know, you have a lot of paper tigers, masters that claimed things that were really off the charts, know, things that were not really feasible. 356 00:32:59,752 --> 00:33:04,735 but nobody proved them wrong, you know, because everybody was compliant, right? 357 00:33:04,735 --> 00:33:06,003 They played along. 358 00:33:06,003 --> 00:33:11,887 MMA kind of exposed that, you you step in there and if your stuff works, it works. 359 00:33:11,887 --> 00:33:13,887 And if it doesn't, it doesn't. 360 00:33:13,948 --> 00:33:18,811 And a lot of classical martial artists stepped in there and got their come up ends. 361 00:33:18,811 --> 00:33:23,934 They came to realize, wow, this stuff is not all it's purported to be. 362 00:33:23,934 --> 00:33:27,436 So in that way, it served us well. 363 00:33:27,856 --> 00:33:29,758 It became a proving ground. 364 00:33:29,758 --> 00:33:32,301 But as Eckhart Tolle says, the... 365 00:33:32,301 --> 00:33:36,735 The ego will hijack even our loftiest spiritual intentions. 366 00:33:36,735 --> 00:33:41,159 And the ego certainly, collectively, has hijacked the MMA world. 367 00:33:41,159 --> 00:33:42,840 And it's very distasteful. 368 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:49,106 ah There's no real conversation about the spiritual elements of it. 369 00:33:49,106 --> 00:33:51,348 And I think that got lost. 370 00:33:51,348 --> 00:33:53,670 ah And so that's a sad thing. 371 00:33:53,670 --> 00:33:58,514 But like I said, it is a double-edged sword, and it did provide something of value. 372 00:33:58,514 --> 00:33:59,456 ah 373 00:33:59,456 --> 00:34:02,527 Now people can really question, does this stuff work? 374 00:34:02,527 --> 00:34:10,690 Because you're being told it works and people train for years under the guise that what they were doing worked. 375 00:34:10,710 --> 00:34:14,852 And sometimes, unfortunately, in street altercations, they found out it didn't. 376 00:34:14,852 --> 00:34:23,895 uh Now with MMA, we kind of question the art we're attracted to and will this really work? 377 00:34:23,935 --> 00:34:29,271 And what it also did was for those people who do teach a traditional martial art, 378 00:34:29,271 --> 00:34:39,270 they may be cleaned up their stuff a little bit and, you know, less hype and more actual technique that can prove to work. 379 00:34:39,270 --> 00:34:45,435 So again, a double-edged sword, but I couldn't agree with you more about how distasteful it is. 380 00:34:45,495 --> 00:34:47,337 I'm turned off by it, frankly. 381 00:34:47,337 --> 00:34:52,391 You know, I think it's a big ego game and sad to see that. 382 00:34:53,479 --> 00:34:56,280 You know, it's interesting you're bringing up 383 00:34:57,926 --> 00:35:03,548 this whole issue of what works and what doesn't work. 384 00:35:04,189 --> 00:35:17,364 And both of us uh I think after decades have had a lot of opportunity to kind of look back and consider what we've seen and what we we've experienced. 385 00:35:17,364 --> 00:35:25,834 And uh you know, i it's interesting to me being somebody who was brought up 386 00:35:25,834 --> 00:35:39,398 In what I consider to be a warrior saint tradition, where most of the people around me, even if they talk about a warrior saint tradition, it's a name only. 387 00:35:39,918 --> 00:35:55,312 And so even on like the spiritual path and the spiritual community I was raised in, um, there always has been seen like a premium put on practicing. 388 00:35:55,315 --> 00:36:06,894 yoga and meditation and the warrior side of it has been talked about philosophically but really has not been implemented in reality by the vast majority of the people but I think 389 00:36:06,894 --> 00:36:24,665 it's had um a a serious consequence and that is that looking at yoga meditation in a in a very positive light what it does I think accomplish is that um 390 00:36:24,748 --> 00:36:43,445 It does if if people sincerely practice yoga meditation, they it's it's to m from my personal experience and my observation, it's indisputable that it gives people at its best 391 00:36:43,445 --> 00:36:51,692 an experience of their own soul and of God, and it's it's it's healthy in many, many ways. 392 00:36:52,164 --> 00:36:56,507 And the experience that it gives a person is very divine. 393 00:36:56,507 --> 00:37:00,710 So I have I practice it myself, I still do. 394 00:37:00,890 --> 00:37:09,376 I have nothing negative to say about it because uh it's it's been a transformational experience for me. 395 00:37:10,657 --> 00:37:20,324 Also, if a person doesn't have it already, uh and they're attracted to the 396 00:37:20,751 --> 00:37:23,332 Personal experience they get from it. 397 00:37:23,332 --> 00:37:31,455 ah It gives them the opportunity to learn self-discipline, have a daily spiritual practice of something. 398 00:37:32,456 --> 00:37:43,460 And it really is an imp, as you know, is an important part of personal development, almost essential part of uh personal development. 399 00:37:43,460 --> 00:37:49,062 I don't know any evolved person who is not self-disciplined. 400 00:37:49,722 --> 00:38:01,665 And and so it really does give people the opportunity, especially if they've never had it before, to learn how to discipline themselves because the the the the candy, the you know, 401 00:38:01,665 --> 00:38:03,956 the dessert, it makes it worth it. 402 00:38:03,956 --> 00:38:06,947 And so they do something regularly and they get in the habit. 403 00:38:06,947 --> 00:38:10,648 So I think those are the the real benefits to it. 404 00:38:11,368 --> 00:38:18,936 on the other hand, uh people who've I've seen, and I was this way when I was younger. 405 00:38:18,936 --> 00:38:31,097 Who put all their eggs in that basket, I think are gonna come up short, especially on the path that I walk, because the path that I walk is a warrior saint path, which means that 406 00:38:31,097 --> 00:38:46,430 actually, because you you know, you yourself were talking about God and spiritual life and whatever, but to me, the goal of all these paths, whether it's explicitly said or not. 407 00:38:46,791 --> 00:38:51,162 Is giving people the opportunity to liberate in this lifetime. 408 00:38:51,443 --> 00:38:53,384 And there's different ways of getting there. 409 00:38:53,384 --> 00:38:57,985 So just generically, there's different ways of liberating. 410 00:38:58,966 --> 00:39:03,797 And each path has its own kind of doorway to do that. 411 00:39:03,797 --> 00:39:16,421 Now, in the path of a warrior saint in a culsa path, uh, and many people may not agree with me, but but the pathway to 412 00:39:16,438 --> 00:39:25,384 get there, that the most direct experience of of transcendence is the absence of fear. 413 00:39:25,384 --> 00:39:27,476 Okay? 414 00:39:27,476 --> 00:39:40,225 I this is just I'm talking very concrete, non-philosophical terms, is that it's a big challenge because for all kinds of reasons, fear is what holds people back. 415 00:39:40,225 --> 00:39:45,508 And so if you can learn to live without fear and 416 00:39:45,546 --> 00:39:55,379 basically leaving that vacuum for love and wisdom, that's that's your daughter way to liberation. 417 00:39:55,379 --> 00:40:06,242 And there's no evidence that I've seen, and I know that people would argue with me this, but I think I have a credible opinion because I have practiced and taught yoga and 418 00:40:06,242 --> 00:40:09,053 meditation for my whole adult life. 419 00:40:09,053 --> 00:40:14,227 Uh I've also been a lawyer, so I always tend to say the about the evidence. 420 00:40:14,227 --> 00:40:21,951 I've seen no evidence that doing yoga and meditation will alleve people of fear. 421 00:40:22,592 --> 00:40:28,415 That that that it's just I I maybe it's maybe it is. 422 00:40:28,415 --> 00:40:30,016 I haven't seen it. 423 00:40:30,216 --> 00:40:41,372 But the martial arts part of it does give people an opportunity to confront and basically eventually conquest a fear. 424 00:40:41,722 --> 00:40:48,067 And I do not feel, I haven't seen any evidence that practicing yoga will do that by itself. 425 00:40:48,067 --> 00:40:50,429 So I think you have to bring that in. 426 00:40:50,429 --> 00:41:06,221 The other and that and the other piece of this very simple paradigm of living as a warrior saint is that there it's basically this presentation that this way of liberation of a 427 00:41:06,221 --> 00:41:07,642 warrior saint. 428 00:41:07,836 --> 00:41:23,418 Is a combination of what I would call spiritual technology, which basically are the tools of experience that are totally integrated into what I would call character development. 429 00:41:23,919 --> 00:41:37,181 And so just doing yoga, just praying, just meditating are going to do certain things, but they don't necessarily lead a person to character development. 430 00:41:37,181 --> 00:41:40,123 So in other words, somebody could be practicing yoga. 431 00:41:40,123 --> 00:41:50,868 There's n I don't see any connection between practicing yoga and being a generous person, an honest person, a truthful person, ah a fearless person. 432 00:41:50,901 --> 00:41:58,872 I would admit that, acknowledge that practicing yoga can make you very self disciplined, which is a part of character. 433 00:41:58,872 --> 00:42:07,056 But it doesn't make you committed, it doesn't, you know, there there's a lot of it doesn't give you integrity by and by itself. 434 00:42:07,470 --> 00:42:20,463 And so I think these things have to be introduced into an integrated spiritual practice, uh, character development, and and martial arts actually into this particular path. 435 00:42:20,564 --> 00:42:34,087 Because um, you know, ultim ultimately we can't expect to experience liberation in this lifetime if we actually are afraid to die. 436 00:42:34,767 --> 00:42:37,464 That's yeah. 437 00:42:37,464 --> 00:42:49,557 And and the gurus in my tradition, going back hundreds of years, talked about this experience of liberation of actually dying while you're yet alive. 438 00:42:50,779 --> 00:42:59,478 And so the only way possible of experiencing dying while yet alive is dropping your attachment to living. 439 00:43:00,998 --> 00:43:05,059 And not being disinterested, but basically not being attached. 440 00:43:05,059 --> 00:43:10,431 But you can't be unattached as long as you have that fear. 441 00:43:10,431 --> 00:43:27,075 And so I I really s getting back to the beginning of conversation, uh I think it was just genius for our gurus three hundred years ago to actually make part of the requirement of 442 00:43:27,075 --> 00:43:29,286 living on this path. 443 00:43:29,490 --> 00:43:35,019 to not only meditate but also learn and master martial arts. 444 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:36,820 Yes. 445 00:43:36,820 --> 00:43:37,811 Yeah, I agree. 446 00:43:37,811 --> 00:43:41,283 You know, I want to say a couple of things. 447 00:43:41,283 --> 00:43:43,474 A moment ago, I mentioned that movie with Nick Nolte. 448 00:43:43,474 --> 00:43:44,805 I couldn't think of the name. 449 00:43:44,805 --> 00:43:47,326 It's a book and a movie called The Peaceful Warrior. 450 00:43:47,326 --> 00:43:51,308 So here we're looking at this concept of a warrior again. 451 00:43:51,729 --> 00:44:06,096 And uh before I began working on the book I'm writing now, I was writing a book called The Ten Practices of a Spiritual Warrior, which now has become a chapter in the new book. 452 00:44:06,763 --> 00:44:11,348 And um here's what I would say, I agree with you wholeheartedly. 453 00:44:11,348 --> 00:44:26,023 And if we look at different traditions, perhaps your tradition, how I came up, we look at Buddhism, we look at mystical Christianity, whatever we look at, you're gonna find that 454 00:44:26,023 --> 00:44:30,567 there are certain practices uh that are necessary. 455 00:44:30,707 --> 00:44:34,709 to inculcate the spiritual knowledge that we are immortal beings. 456 00:44:34,709 --> 00:44:37,321 That's how we really rise above the fear of death. 457 00:44:37,321 --> 00:44:45,035 What dies is the body, which is attached to the ego, but the soul is an aspect of God that is immortal. 458 00:44:45,035 --> 00:44:52,239 uh And in order for that to happen, you need more than a handful of practices. 459 00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:58,046 Now, of course we can conflate or we could subdivide, so... 460 00:44:58,046 --> 00:45:00,246 Some practices may be 23. 461 00:45:00,246 --> 00:45:01,666 I say 10 practices. 462 00:45:01,666 --> 00:45:03,426 I conflated a few. 463 00:45:03,746 --> 00:45:14,425 But I assure you, if you read the 10 practices I lay out and you looked at someone else who had maybe 15, you'll see that some of them I conflated. 464 00:45:14,425 --> 00:45:18,666 If you subdivided them, they would be 15 or 20 or more. 465 00:45:18,786 --> 00:45:27,226 The point being that you need several practices because they all serve different needs. 466 00:45:28,132 --> 00:45:34,766 And so if you look at, first of all, the study of the spiritual archetype, what is that? 467 00:45:34,766 --> 00:45:37,808 Which is a commonality of all spiritual paths. 468 00:45:37,808 --> 00:45:40,149 Again, that we're all one. 469 00:45:40,149 --> 00:45:47,034 I mean, I don't think there's any bona fide spiritual path that will make the case for separation. 470 00:45:47,034 --> 00:45:48,994 It's all about oneness. 471 00:45:49,255 --> 00:45:50,986 So that's the archetype. 472 00:45:50,986 --> 00:45:54,608 But then you have prayer, you have meditation. 473 00:45:54,854 --> 00:46:07,431 You have contemplation, which not a lot of people speak about, but witnessing your own thought construct and evaluating it based on the four pillars of higher intelligence, 474 00:46:07,431 --> 00:46:11,683 which are discernment, congruency, empathy, and creativity. 475 00:46:11,683 --> 00:46:19,477 It's like looking through the double amers on a gun to make sure that you're aligned properly. 476 00:46:19,598 --> 00:46:21,418 And then there's breath work. 477 00:46:22,113 --> 00:46:23,934 We can go through several more. 478 00:46:23,934 --> 00:46:36,647 You know, if you're not adhering to some kind of diet to the best of your ability and your microbiome is out and your body is producing hormones like cortisol, you're not going to 479 00:46:36,647 --> 00:46:40,198 be able to be uh at rest during meditation. 480 00:46:40,198 --> 00:46:43,409 know, so all of these things, we have to learn how to work with the body. 481 00:46:43,409 --> 00:46:47,130 So you have conscious eating, conscious breath work. 482 00:46:47,410 --> 00:46:51,051 And at the end of it all, the most important one. 483 00:46:51,063 --> 00:46:53,005 is virtuous interaction. 484 00:46:53,005 --> 00:46:58,830 Because if we're not kind, it doesn't matter what else we know or what else we do. 485 00:46:58,830 --> 00:47:08,137 If we truly not living with integrity, compassion, uh know, virtue, uh then it's all meaningless. 486 00:47:08,137 --> 00:47:15,203 And so I agree with you to say that, yeah, meditation alone and yoga will not get us there. 487 00:47:15,203 --> 00:47:20,007 The martial arts is a virtuous interaction uh because 488 00:47:20,107 --> 00:47:33,917 It takes a great deal of uh personal integrity and openness to put yourself out against, you know, in let's say a training session with another martial artist and to lose, to come 489 00:47:33,917 --> 00:47:37,549 up on the short end of the stick and to still be okay with that. 490 00:47:37,549 --> 00:47:39,821 That's a real dying of the ego. 491 00:47:39,821 --> 00:47:45,485 You know, when you talk about dying while you're still alive, you know, you're letting go of that ego. 492 00:47:45,485 --> 00:47:47,066 You recognize it's not important. 493 00:47:47,066 --> 00:47:48,922 It's okay to not come up 494 00:47:48,922 --> 00:47:50,664 uh on top today. 495 00:47:50,664 --> 00:47:53,106 And maybe tomorrow you will and maybe you won't. 496 00:47:53,106 --> 00:47:55,347 It's the path. 497 00:47:55,347 --> 00:48:01,712 It's not measured by uh any kind of identity to winning or losing. 498 00:48:02,253 --> 00:48:10,860 So I do agree with you in that it takes a lot more to inculcate spiritual knowledge than just two or three practices. 499 00:48:11,641 --> 00:48:16,631 It could take, I don't want to put a number on it, like I say, but we could look at uh 500 00:48:16,631 --> 00:48:19,784 you know, practices perhaps or more. 501 00:48:19,784 --> 00:48:28,930 But more or less, we do have to have a considerable amount of practice under our belt to really move past fear. 502 00:48:28,930 --> 00:48:31,512 And I would say also, very importantly, guilt. 503 00:48:31,512 --> 00:48:43,241 uh I like to say that when we come over the border into manifestation, there's three of these, you know, challenging emotions on the other end. 504 00:48:43,479 --> 00:48:47,432 We often talk about fear, but not enough about guilt. 505 00:48:47,432 --> 00:49:01,722 uh I think that guilt is a very primordial emotion whereby we feel as though we have torn out, because we're having this experience as separate beings, Hari, Nam and Gary, that 506 00:49:01,722 --> 00:49:06,005 we've torn ourselves away from the fabric of inseparability. 507 00:49:06,005 --> 00:49:07,646 Of course, that can never be the case. 508 00:49:07,646 --> 00:49:12,389 We can no more tear ourselves away from that and water can be extracted. 509 00:49:12,490 --> 00:49:14,241 separated from an ice cube. 510 00:49:14,241 --> 00:49:15,882 They're one and the same. 511 00:49:15,882 --> 00:49:20,395 But we're under the illusion and we're deluded into thinking we are. 512 00:49:20,395 --> 00:49:26,649 And so we suffer this guilt that we tore ourselves away from the creator. 513 00:49:26,649 --> 00:49:30,852 And now he's going to enact some kind of punishment on us. 514 00:49:30,852 --> 00:49:31,853 And so what do we do? 515 00:49:31,853 --> 00:49:33,073 We punish ourselves. 516 00:49:33,073 --> 00:49:41,715 uh We figure we'll usurp that power, punish ourselves and spare ourselves, you know, the greater retribution from God. 517 00:49:41,715 --> 00:49:44,576 Of course, this is all just nonsense. 518 00:49:44,576 --> 00:49:48,147 None of that happens, but we live under that illusion. 519 00:49:48,147 --> 00:49:52,278 so fear, guilt, and doubt are very closely related to one another. 520 00:49:52,278 --> 00:50:01,621 uh so, as you say, studying a martial art will do much to liberate us from those feelings. 521 00:50:01,621 --> 00:50:11,103 You know, it certainly assuages some of our doubts, because if you stay with it long enough, you will become successful at a technique that you weren't before. 522 00:50:11,137 --> 00:50:18,331 But again, it takes surrender, surrender to the art itself, to the teachers that come before you. 523 00:50:18,331 --> 00:50:27,156 You don't have the luxury of being subjective and picking and choosing what you think you would like to take from that. 524 00:50:27,156 --> 00:50:28,477 It's a full surrender. 525 00:50:28,477 --> 00:50:32,519 uh so, yeah, I agree. 526 00:50:32,519 --> 00:50:34,880 This warrior path is really something. 527 00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:39,809 I mean, at the end of the day, uh we're fighting against the, not only our own, 528 00:50:39,809 --> 00:50:43,022 personal ego, but the collective ego. 529 00:50:43,022 --> 00:50:52,390 That we all are inundated every day with information and narratives that are untrue. 530 00:50:52,390 --> 00:50:54,662 But it's the collective ego. 531 00:50:54,662 --> 00:50:57,775 And sometimes we question, hey, is it me? 532 00:50:57,775 --> 00:51:00,076 why don't I subscribe to that? 533 00:51:00,679 --> 00:51:07,983 A lot of people would, perhaps you say what you said about MMA, they may not get it. 534 00:51:08,174 --> 00:51:19,660 They may be such a fan that they're gonna defend it to the hilt instead of taking away from it the truth that you brought to bear, because it's undeniable. 535 00:51:20,529 --> 00:51:32,627 I hope you enjoyed the conversation and uh you know from time to time I'll be checking in with you and calling you back and uh see what's going on in your life and what what your 536 00:51:32,627 --> 00:51:35,458 thoughts on are about what's going on in the world. 537 00:51:35,759 --> 00:51:37,259 That's okay with you. 538 00:51:37,309 --> 00:51:40,850 It's always a pleasure speaking with you and I really did enjoy it.