Caro C
Hello and welcome to this Sound On Sound podcast about Electronic Music and all things synth. I'm Caro C and in this episode, we're talking to Julie Campbell, aka LoneLady. She's a solo musician, songwriter, multi instrumentalist, singer and producer from Tameside, just outside Manchester in England. Her urgent, post punk, funk and electronic infused sound has garnered widespread critical acclaim, including playing on BBC's Later with Jools Holland. Lone Lady writes, performs, arranges and records everything herself and with the exception of real drums on albums 1 and 2, plays all the instruments. To get us started, we're going to hear a clip of The Catcher, a track from LoneLady's most recent album, Former Things. Then we'll dive straight into talking about the making of Former Things which was released on Warped Records in 2021. 

Can we unpack former things a bit because I think it was mainly done at the time when you wouldn't have been touring and also there was a focus around Somerset House. How did that come about? So you write all the music, but there's also obviously the gear that you must have got together. Yeah, I mean, they set up a new artist studio there.

Um, that was kind of like a subsidized space in the heart of London. And so I was invited by the studio director, Marie McPartland,  to come and just have a look around. So I, and I ended up being one of the first people moving in there and they showed me all these quite plush studios, which I just knew wouldn't really work for me.

Um, and instead we walked through this kind of dilapidated, Empty concrete room that was really long and narrow and weird. And we just sort of paused and I said, hang on a minute. What's what's going on with this space? You know, and unsurprisingly, I ended up in this kind of odd basement concrete space that was never meant to be used by anybody. 

So I got Arts Council funding to help me make the move from Manchester to London and, you know, just help me establish a kind of studio in, in this basement space. I had really, at that time, really wanted to get my hands on electronic hardware. That's what I was really craving, you know, so I was able to kind of get a few new toys Um, so I got an ARP Odyssey mark 2 from 1976 So that's like a yeah secondhand vintage and a long synth and then very kindly Benj Ben Edwards He's like a Um, electronic artist who like works with John Fox and Wrangler, people like that.

He's got probably the most, you know, substantially kitted out analog studio in the country. He very kindly lent me a Korg MS 10,  so another analog, um, synthesizer. And he lent me a  Ensoniq, which is a digital synthesizer. So,  and I'd bought also another, the key, the real key piece of equipment really was the Doepfer MIDI analog sequencer.

And that was what I've used to generate a whole swathe of new material, really. So that was like, that had three channels, so I could connect, you know, connect it up with the synths, or with, I used samplers a lot, and drum machines of course. So the main, really the three main pieces that I wrote former things on was, was the, the arp,  the korg,  and then using So there's these, you know, the ARP had this kind of warm, fizzly  character to it,  you know, broadly speaking.

And then the Korg was very biting and harsh sounding. And, you know, of course you can modulate either synth to sound almost however you want, but they did seem to have a core character or voice. I really loved kind of using both of these synths across the album. You know, and these were like kind of contrapuntal voices that really sort of bounced off each other and, um, complimented each other and contrasted with each other.

And,  you know, I just really,  really enjoyed going deep into sequencing beats, patterns, percussion, raw synth lines. Um, and I, I would be in that studio six days a week, all day long, you know, I, I mean, I was, I was in that studio.  At Somerset House for about 18 months. Wow. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, it took quite a long time to piece this studio together, um, to make the different  pieces of equipment  speak to each other, the various, you know, reasons they didn't always,  you know, work.

So it was like a bit of a jigsaw puzzle,  but eventually I sort of found a rhythm with it and, you You know, I think one of the key things was that it was hardware that, you know, I had the sequencer was in a rack at head height. So I wrote this record on my feet, you know, I was up and active and on my feet all day and playing a drum pad and, you know,  interchanging samplers.

Like I use samplers a lot. They've got a lot of sounds on.  I've got like two Akais, a classic sort of Akai MPC 500 and a little modern version of it, a little Akai  sampler. And they, they were both used a lot and they contained, for example, they would contain a Linn drum sample, for example, that was from my previous album Hinterland.

So that was like a real sample, if you see what I mean, rather than a downloaded one. So I had, I had a lot of fun really with lots of analog synths and drum machine sounds and samples. And did you go there with? Some ideas already formed in terms of whether it's just the lyrics or narratives for the tracks Or did it kind of happen as you were building your relationship with the equipment and the space?

Yeah, I mean, I think as people Probably noticed by now. I don't churn things out overly quickly. So a lot of things kind of Circulate around my mind for quite a long time. So the kind of  The build up to what it's going to be, it forms in my mind, but I knew I kind of needed to get my hands on some electronic hardware.

Um, I, I'd always loved Cybertron's debut album from 1983 and so that sort of electro. Sort of early techno, raw, machine funk thing. It's just, I can't really explain why you gravitate to some things, some sounds, and, you know, but that was always something I always loved. Um, so that record was definitely sort of swirling around. 

And also, you know, I've done a sort of real deep dive into Cabaret Voltaire's sort of back catalogue, um,  around that time. And particularly, uh, I think 1985 EP, Drinking Gasoline was, it really stuck in my mind and again,  just raw machine funk, really. Um, so I got hold of these since. Knowing that I wanted to create  rhythmic, melodic lines with them, rather than creating atmospheric, weird Doctor Who type sounds.

I didn't want the synths for those kinds of textures, I wanted them for the  punchy, raw, electro sounds. Sounds that I would connect with a dope for in sequence and just had real joy dialing in patterns Really just thing you say about the standing up thing because I think it reminds you to keep it more physical if you like It's more rooted in the physical isn't it and sit and get to a point where I'm like, I'm listening to track And I don't know what to do next.

I'll get up I'll move around maybe even dance to it to know what it's you know, what's happening and what needs to happen next Yeah, I do. I do feel that sitting down is a real killer. It's an enemy  I even bought like a little bar stool so I could, I was sort of half stood up, but half propped on a bar stool.

So, and I'd, I'd never considered that former things to be a London sounding record.  It was definitely,  um, informed by, all the stimulus of that city. You know, I just loved to go out and go to art galleries and things. And I think that energy,  you know, and just having, you know, room and space to turn things up loud was, it was a great thing.

That's why I chose that room.  It's great to just whack up the volume. And was it just yourself going in or were other people coming in and sort of you bouncing off them or you collaborating to some extent? Uh, to, to no extent. It's um, you know, I go in that room and shut the door and it's just me all day long.

I mean, that is, you know, that is, you know, I write a song,  it can take months, even years sometimes. And  I don't, I never run it by anyone to see what they think. That's just not a natural part of my music making, really. Once I get  started on a path, it's like a puzzle that has to be solved, and only I can solve it, really.

So, uh, I just have to.  I, it's, well, you know, after the initial, um,  quite playful phase of just generating cool, you know, melodies and patterns and stuff, that's, that touch wood always seems to come really easily, you know, and then, That, that whole phase is a matter of kind of curating, you know, I, I was very,  you know, I did research and I was kind of, you know, I selected the pieces that I wanted to play with for a reason and had those, had those toys to hand. 

But then that initial phase of, uh, just generating sketches is always really, really hard. fun and kind of pretty easy really. I'm terrified to say that in case it disappears. I've touched wood but uh, the really difficult part where you then sort of descend into kind of  Dante's, you know, purgatory type hellish space for about two years and then I come out the other end with a finished album so that's, that is just how it is for me.

At the beginning there's so much, there's the compulsion, there's the instinct, there's the just doing it and then all the left brain comes in and goes, well. Sketch is a fun book.  They're not a finished song. I read this about, um, a novelist said this, you're haunted by the blank page and it terrorizes you with all the possibilities that this novel could be. 

You know, and that's the same with music. It's like, well, what kind of song shall this be? And then, in some ways, it's a case of letting go of all the possibilities that  are there at the start of making a song.  And just going, alright, I'm going to make a song. I'm going to choose this. Committing. Yeah, and it's not, none of it's the risk, none of it is.

It's not a wrong choice, but it is, it's a, it's an incredible battle. You know, I am sort of fairly tormented by songs that are unfinished and they just have to be finished and uh,  I, I just, I, I often liken it to painting. It doesn't even occur to me that somebody else would pop in and do a brush stroke.

It just doesn't make any sense to my brain. So how does that work in terms of then presenting it to the label or getting it ready for touring, if you like? Well, I mean, at some point, you know, a version of the material, you know, Warp will listen to that and they are pretty hands off, really, you know, they kind of trust we both, you know, it's a mutual sort of trust and respect thing, you know, they know it's, they know I'm working on it, and,  but yeah, it's more just an interest, really, you know, what's, what's going on, you know, but it's, it is hard, I find it very hard to, uh,  expose something unfinished to other people's ears, really, because they can't hear what I mean, what I intend to say,  So in terms of then touring that, you mainly toured that with Kendra and James.

So, um, touring that with them, you then had to kind of translate or interpret what you'd written to them and for them. Yeah. Again, it's, it's like, it's, it's pulling it all apart really and deciding. What, what feels good, what looks good to play, you know. I didn't want to take analog synths on the road with me.

Um, and so  getting to grips with a new sort of Juno synthesizer and,  you know, inputting samples onto that was There's a lot of tech wrangles that dominated the rehearsals rather than lots of playing. It was more, oh, this isn't quite working, just endless tech wrangling with,  you know, samples. So on Kendra's side, the sample, the sample battle was the, was ongoing.

And then on, on James's side, we were forever tweaking the backing track. So, you know, It's a great, you know, um, and you know, Endeavor is a really, it's a great piece of work. You know, I'm sort of proud of that live show and it may never quite be that again. You know, I feel like it could be. It probably won't because that was the most electro  focused that  I might be, really.

Right. You think you might have satisfied that need? Yeah, for the time being. I think the, it's the, there's always been a hybrid with me though, with the electronics and the guitar and my previous album, Hinterland, we were a four piece and we had drum pads  I think the challenge now will be, going forward, is what will the live thing be and  do I nudge it, you know, do you nudge it towards  What's the ratio of electronic to guitar?

And so that will be another, it's just another puzzle, another tech puzzle to come. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and that was quite a big extensive tour, wasn't it? I know you were played on six music quite a lot. So was that a kind of new level of busyness popularity, if you like? I don't know. I think because of COVID we had a, um, a European tour canceled.

Um, so that actually with. My previous album, Hinterland, we, we sort of, I  ventured further, further afield around the world really. And so  we were lucky with former things in that we didn't, apart from that one cancellation, I think that we managed to duck the worst of things. But, you know, we started touring in late 21.

So  the world was still emerging really. Um, and, but we certainly benefited from a first wave of audiences who were just desperate to get out again. So  yeah, I think, yeah, I had a good  period of touring with Farmer Things, but  It's, it was definitely capped a little by COVID. Yeah, so I noticed, I think it was, yeah, obviously a good few years ago, realizing that you're on Warp and um, being like, Oh, there's one of another, the few women on Warp. 

So how did that come about? How did you end up on, with Warp? Um, it was sort of way back when I first started sending out CDRs of all things. These sort of lovingly little, you know, packaged CD Rs with inlay sleeves and, um, of these, of recordings I'd made on my, um, sort of Tascam 4 track. That was the first little humble piece of recording gear that I bought and I bought that really sort of early on.

And that really definitely set a blueprint for this, this thing of just, of home recording and playing the instruments myself and mixing. Just a real love of mixing instruments together and layering up.  So, these four track recordings were what I sent out  by post to, you know, labels when that was still a thing. 

I got some attention from a guy called Jason White, who is  with the label 4AD.  And, um, we, you know, cut a long story short, we kind of worked together for a little while, but he was the one really who took me to Warp and brought me to the attention of Steve Beckett. He was like one of the, you know, co founders of Warp.

And he, yeah, he came to see me play live, and yeah, it was very immediate. He just, you know, he was just, he liked it, and boom, that was that. And he loved it, really, you know, he loved my guitar playing, and  you know, I mustn't have put him off too much in person or whatever, so  that was very kind of immediate, really.

But prior to that, I guess there'd been a, you know, a few years of  self releasing and  sending things out. So when was that then? When was that that you started releasing with Warp? Uh, well, the first album, Nerve Up, came out in 2010. So you've, so three albums that you've released with them? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, okay, fab.

Do you see things in, in, in terms of once album, once one album's done it's a case of moving on to the next? Yeah, I mean, I think because things take  quite a long time, the, the inklings and ideas and  tones and colors and textures start appearing, forming in my mind,  you know, way ahead of, you know, even before I finished what I'm doing currently, really.

So you're always  three steps ahead of yourself mentally, you know. And so I do, I do know what, what, what the next thing is that I'm trying to do, what I'm going to be doing. So yeah, I, at the moment I'm um, moving flat and the next place I will have a,  I just need to set up my home studio of sorts really.

So  I think, never having a sort of stable home studio is kind of  on the negative side has hampered my progress, but on the plus side. it's kind of kept every album very fresh sounding. Yeah, because part of that creative process is setting up. I mean, I'm literally building from scratch every time, which is a bit tiresome.

I would have liked a nice studio, but it's not, that's not been the story, but yeah, I'm enjoying, I'm really enjoying just playing with my tally again. And, you know, I'd sort of taken a, took a deep dive back into REM and that's when those Support Slots with Peter Buck came up and it just feels,  yeah, I'm just in this kind of warm, woozy, Telecaster guitar place again. 

I 

can't stop thinking about you. So as a. Fellow Manchester musician at LCC, you're doing lots and lots around the city and elsewhere. And, um, you did a gig recently, didn't you? Supporting, was it, Luke Haynes and Yeah, I supported Luke Haynes and Peter Hook. Um, they were promoting their  Newest album, which I don't think's out yet, um, but it's a, a, a delayed tour. 

I just, I saw, like, R. E. M. is, like, sort of my all time, sort of, favourite  group, you know, that, you know, as a, as a child. I've, I've been obsessed with them since I was 14, basically, and I just spotted that they were gonna be playing Guerrilla one day.  And it just seemed impossible to me that this, this artist, an artist of this magnitude was just going to be down the road. 

And, you know, and I'm not very quick sometimes with these things and I was just ruminating on it for a couple of days. And then I just thought, Hmm, I wonder if they need a support.  And I messaged my live agent, who messaged their live agent, and lo and behold, I found myself supporting them for three nights.

It doesn't normally happen that easily, but this did. And so I actually got to meet Peter Book, and, which was a really You know, impossible, magic, lovely thing. And I got him to play my Telecaster guitar and sign it and, yeah, it seems quite unreal now.  And he complimented you on your guitar playing, didn't he?

He did, it was right at the end of the night and I was just chatting to some people.  You know, the room had emptied out and the lights were up and then suddenly I sort of turned around and he was stood right in front of me. And he just, yeah, he said he really, really liked my guitar playing and it was, it was a very sort of, you know, one guitarist to another type moment and  it was just a blur, really. 

You were dazzled. Yeah, I was, I was. It was very special and he wasn't doing it out of politeness, you know what I mean? So, so yeah, very magical.  That's the kind of validation that, yeah, feels good, doesn't it? Well, it, it does, because it, it's, it has actual meaning, and, you know, as I sort of came to discover, you know, he's,  he's a serious man, and he just, he loves to play the guitar, and, you, when you meet your heroes, I mean, I was almost quite ill about it in the days leading up to it, because it meant so much to me. 

Um, so that's the, um, Can be tricky when you meet your heroes, they, they mean everything to you. And, and, but the reverse is not true. But, um, but you know, it was a lovely experience, but it was, you know, it was just, um,  you know, privilege really to just watch a great musician doing his,  doing his thing night after night and just loving playing the guitar and,  you know, just enjoying how nuanced his guitar playing is.

And that was a lone, lone lady gig, wasn't it? ? Yeah, I started doing Lone, lone gigs. Um. Late last year, it started with the,  my October tour last year.  I just, um, it actually was not planned to be Lone. Um, but  through sort of circumstance, I kind of made,  made a virtue out of a difficult situation. And the, um, Lone shows have been going well.

You know, it, I've not,  they're difficult because it's on stage. I do like to, bounce off, particularly drums, you know, rhythm and you're shouldering the attention  entirely. There's nowhere to hide.  And yeah, the pressure was on, certainly on that Manchester show. And later on, I discovered that Peter Booker had watched the show and I'm very, there's photographs that show him watching it at the side of the stage.

Yeah. So they, those were loan shows and I have some more, a few more loan shows coming up as well. It's not, um,  I don't intend to.  be alone for, you know, the foreseeable future. It's just, it's an interesting interim period because I get to play,  I'm playing sort of lesser known gems from albums and it's, it's really nice to  sort of remind people that there's all these other songs as well.

Yeah, because you've obviously Mainly last couple of years has been touring former things. Yeah, yeah, very former things focused. So, you know, it was more the sort of electro iteration of myself. So how does that work live? Then, um, are you triggering or is it sort of just playing along to stuff? How does it work in terms of having the other aspects of your music?

Um, well, we had. Backing tracks, and then  James Field, the drummer and percussionist, had a Simmons, electronic Simmons kit. So this was something we sort of built.  We sort of designed the, you know, built the live show together, kind of figuring it out, how we're going to do it, because I didn't know how to do it, because You write the album, spend all this time putting it together.

Then you've got to pull it apart again to decide how you're going to play it live. So,  and back in tracks was new to me because previously I'd always done everything, you know, super live, but it, because this was,  uh, more electronic oriented, it kind of had to be back in tracks and so, yeah, James was kind of at the helm really of  triggering things.

And then Kendra Frost is also part of your live band, isn't she? Yeah, so Yeah, she, she was, she was, she was great. You know, it was a really great three piece to have, really. And both, you know, James and Kendra, you know, great sort of musicians, experienced musicians in their own right. Um, so Kendra was on sort of bass playing duties and synth and  triggering.

So we managed, I managed to sort of  get a lot out of a,  You know, relatively stripped back set up and managed to create quite a full sound without feeling that it was just playback. You know, there was a lot of realness happening, you know, that was always important to me that people have some, particularly as former things was kind of, there's a real sort of scaffolding of, um, electronic drums, sequenced drum machines, you know, beats that I'd written and a lots of percussion.

And I really wanted to. Make sure that that was visible. So,  with James role, it was almost more a choreography of, well, what is obviously playing, which is great, but it was also what looks cool, what looks dynamic. So, and I think that really came across in all the videos and photographs, you know, the Simmons kit, and it's really,  it's something cool to look at, you know, and very dynamic. 

Yeah, I think there's a couple of things there, isn't there? There's like, um, the fact that, yeah, we live in a more visual culture, so people are visually stimulated and supported by the visual when they're absorbing audio, let's say, but I think also that's part of the reason you enjoy and go to see someone live, isn't it?

To actually see them doing what they do instead of that kind of, it's just all on a listening format, if you like. Yeah. And I, I sort of let go. I was, I was a lot more militant previously about  playing every single note live. And when I look back, Some of the sort of things I was doing, just playing every note on the guitar,  you know, it was great, but I sort of, it was nice to approach playing this album live in a way that took on board the visual  experience, because going to see people live is a visual experience and they don't necessarily, not everyone necessarily cares that it's like, you know, a million percent authentic.

You know, by which I mean, is every single note played that they're going for an experience and a memory. And it was nice to be able to, for me to be able to just work on backing tracks and go, well, this can be a texture that's on the backing track.  It's like with the song Groove It Out, which is arguably my most well known song.

I used to play every everything, all the quite complicated harmonic runs while singing. And I just thought, you know what? Why don't you just strip that out, just focus on the, the two note groove  and just really get into it live, you know, and get into the groove properly and sing and, you know, not worry about that. 

So it was nice to be able to just  curate it a bit more with the visual in mind. And I don't, I don't feel like I've cheated anyone or cheated myself because we're still, you know, three good musicians up there playing. So there's so many ways you can present a live show. It's great, you know. So 

how have you managed your kind of, um, development in production, if you like?  Is it, has there been any kind of, I don't know, sound on sound or any kind of places like that that might have been of help or is it kind of just been a lone journey for that, finding out for yourself? Yeah, I enjoy reading articles in sound on sound, I do do that and I do go through phases of just um, you know, I watch a lot of demos on YouTube, that's helpful, but  I've never, you know, and I've picked things up from Bill Skiby, who I've worked with on the last two albums.

A lot of it is, has been really instinctive though, because I, I started off with the Tascam 4 track, and then I bought a Tascam 8 track, and I always loved mixing, you know, mixing slash production  overlap  in their meaning, and aside from just the the structure of a song, that's just  50 percent or even less of what a song is.

And all the, you know, tools at your disposal in the studio is something that I absolutely love. I mean, I, I, you know, I am a studio head. That's where I'm happiest really is, is all the kind of ways in which you can affect the sound. is, to me, is so creative, you know, it's, uh,  again, you know, a former art student, I'm always likening it to paintings, and I just love the way you can kind of  colour a song, you know, the ways in which you can do that are endless, really, so I, I do love the studio processes, but they are largely  instinctive.

I mean, I, I, for example, I never had, never had a music lesson, never had a guitar lesson. I've never had any kind of tech  technological lesson, engineering lesson. And I, you know, I got a record deal  without those things just sort of following my nose and tinkering and listening and playing. It's great, great to have those tools really.

And there have been times over the years where I've thought, Oh, should I just do this properly? Should I go and do an engineering course? Should I go and do, and I just think, well, Nah,  I just, I probably, you know,  I probably can't handle just being sat in some sort of classroom anyway, so, I just, I think,  there's lots of ways you can inform yourself, but, there's a real joy in not knowing, you know, and I don't think there's a proper way to do it. 

There's not a formula, you know, there's not a quote, proper way of recording,  you know, if it sounds good, it's in, you know. Yeah, I think you can have the formulas, but ultimately, yeah, your favourite records are probably people that  have just trusted themselves and gone for it. Yeah, I mean, I suppose I can't help be very art school about all that, you know, um, obviously like,  you know, a kind of more mainstream record, like an Adele record or something, there's probably going to be things that are not acceptable and that's fine.

I'm really interested in what makes a big mainstream record. Uh, you know, what are the, what are the qualities that define that? So I, you know, I'm really interested. I mean, a lot of stuff I buy on Bandcamp is super lo fi, you know, just sounds like it's got someone with a four track in a, in a bedroom somewhere.

But, so I love that. But I also, I'm really fascinated by,  you know, big quotes, proper records, you know, and what, what, what goes on, you know, to make, cause it's amazing how, what you can do in the studio really to make, make.  song pop. I do find it all fascinating. Definitely. Wonderful. Well, so thank you very much for your time.

Really lovely to chat to you today and yeah, all the best in musical adventure. Thanks very much. Cheers.  Thank you for listening and be sure to check out the show notes for further information as well as links and details of other episodes. In the electronic music series. And just before you go, let me point you to soundonsound.

com forward slash podcasts. So you can check out what's on our other channels. This has been a Karo C production for sound on sound.