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Welcome to the effective lawyer,
a podcast for ambitious attorneys

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who want to improve their practice.

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My name is Jack Zinda,
and I'll be your host.

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Hi, and welcome to another episode
of the Effective Lawyer podcast.

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I'm your host, Jack Zinda.

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And today I want to talk to you about how
to identify Cases that your firm wants

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to sign up in a really efficient manner.

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You know, if your firm is like mine, you
probably get lots of potential client

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calls And maybe dozens, if not hundreds,
are cases that you may not want to take,

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and Try to figure out a process that
you can efficiently identify good cases,

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figure out how to take them, and then
giving yourself space and time to make

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sure you don't miss out on a great case.

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So today, I wanna talk to you about what
our firm's process is to, 1, evaluate

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strong cases, and then what steps you
take to ensure that it's a good case, And

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you lock it in and you maximize value.

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So, all right, let's set the stage.

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You are in your office, you get
a call, And someone says, hey,

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we have this call on line 1.

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Do you wanna talk to them?

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It's a potential client.

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What a lot of firms do is just
that call goes directly To the

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attorney or the paralegal without
any initial screening of the case.

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That can be problematic
for several reasons.

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1, it It could be a case
you definitely don't want.

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It may not be a practice area
that you handle and that can cost

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you a lot of time to your day.

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Every interruption that you have,
Studies have shown take about 15 minutes

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out, not to mention the time that
you're on the phone with the client,

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you've gotten distracted and you're
not sure, You know, how to get back

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on track to what you're doing before.

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So the first suggestion I have is you want
to have at least an initial gatekeeper,

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If not a full time intake specialist,
do the initial screening of your cases.

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And you want to give them a script
with a checklist of things they want

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to check To and see if it's a good
case that you wanna pass along to you.

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And there's several setups
that I've seen work.

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When my firm first started, we
didn't have the resource is to

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have a full time intake specialist.

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So we gave the receptionist a
script of questions we wanted them

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to ask for any potential client.

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It was very brief because they didn't
have enough Time and it could roll

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over and go to an answering service,
which we didn't wanna have happen.

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The other thing that you could have
Someone do is then have a full time intake

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specialist that that is all they're doing
is screening intake calls and they can

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actually get really at identifying what
cases you want and what cases you don't.

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Or you could have a situation where it
goes directly to you as the attorney

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or to your paralegal to do the
screening and then closing on the case.

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Where to sign the case up?

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That's an important question.

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You can either do it on the phone, Via
video conference or an in person meeting.

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Before COVID, we were adamant of having
all of our client meetings in person.

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That Still is the most effective
way to both evaluate your client

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and to get the case signed up.

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Since we, post COVID, we have moved
to a process where We will try to

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sign the client up over the phone.

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If that doesn't work, we will move to
a video conference, and then we wanna

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meet with the client in the first 30
days of signing the case which it gives

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us some time to evaluate, decide if we
wanna invest the resources in flying

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somewhere to meet with someone in person.

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Okay.

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So we've talked a little
bit about the process.

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A couple of other things you're gonna
want to have with this are scripts

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that tell your intake person, your
receptionist, or your paralegal what To

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go through some sort of form to fill out.

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And, of course, there's software
programs that can do this.

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They're called CRMs.

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Or you can make it as simple
as a spreadsheet or a Word doc

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That you have the person do.

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You wanna make sure that it's quick
and efficient because they need to

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get through the things very fast.

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And then you want to go through a
decision tree that you give them

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on whether or not they're going to
sign the case and what steps and

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actions they want to take to do that.

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Now we've talked about some of
the the elements you need to have

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an effective sign up process.

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Now let's talk about how you
evaluate the case, Because you're

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not gonna know all the facts that
come in with that initial call.

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Let's say it's a wrongful death
case and the person calling

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you has no idea what happened.

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Let's say you can't get a good read on the
client if you think they are trustworthy

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or you're not sure how hurt they are.

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And you also don't want to lose out
of the case and you wanna make sure

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they don't go hire another law firm
if there's a delay in signing it up.

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So the pillars that we evaluate
in a case, there's 3 of them.

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3 big buckets.

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The first is liability.

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Okay.

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Who was at fault For what happened,
and can you meet can you meet

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your legal burden of proof?

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The second is damages.

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Do you have enough harm in order
to Justify taking the case on.

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And the third is source of recovery.

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Who's going to pay for
the harm if it happened?

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And as As most of you know, that's almost
always going to be an insurance company.

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So on liability, you wanna have the
elements of each cause of action

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that you Commonly take whether
it's premises trucking cases,

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motor vehicle, workplace injury.

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I would have those elements handy So
you can quickly see if the facts meet

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your case, especially if you don't
practice personal injury law regularly.

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But even if you do, it's good to have
it for your staff so they can help

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evaluate what the liability facts are.

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The second damages, you wanna figure
out what is your minimum threshold for

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a case you're going to handle, and you
wanna make that a black and white rule.

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And if you go below that
threshold, you wanna put that

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case in the pro bono category.

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That's important.

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I see a lot of law firms struggle,
Especially newer attorneys would

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take in on a lot of bad cases that
they're never gonna get paid on, or

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they're not gonna get paid enough
to justify their hourly rate.

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Remember, you don't
have to take every case.

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You need to figure out what your
hourly rate you want it to be and work

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on the cases that you wanna work on.

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Now early in your career, you may have
to take cases that you may not wanna

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take later on, but something I've done
each and every year is address what

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is our floor And we've raised that
up consistently each and every year.

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We're currently at a hundred thousand
dollars as the minimum our most

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junior lawyers should take on a case.

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And we do the same things with
our more senior attorneys, only

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their threshold is much higher.

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For example, a senior attorney is
gonna be something, you know, in

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the 7 figure range is the minimum we
want them to take for their cases.

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So you're not going to
know all these things.

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You want to start off by Talking to the
client, introducing yourself and say find

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out what happened and why they're calling.

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Now you want to talk slowly.

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You want to be empathetic and you want
to make sure you're talking to them like

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a human being and not talking to them
like an attorney or someone who doesn't

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care about their case, or is only worried
about Getting them to sign a document.

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It might go something like this.

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Hey, this is Jack Zinda.

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I'm the partner at Zinda Law Group.

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I understand you've been
through something terrible.

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I am I'm so sorry to hear that.

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Why don't you tell me a
little bit about your case?

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So you wanna find out their
facts about what happened.

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And I'd also make it a point
to ask something personal

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about themselves And then share
something personal about yourself.

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This is how we connect as human beings.

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They'll stop seeing you as a lawyer
and they'll stop Seeing you as a

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person that they can relate to.

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Kids are great.

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If they're a coach, sports, if they're a
teacher, what they do for a living, if it

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relates to anything you've done in your
past, Geographic, you know, location.

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But actually I have a list.

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I don't do this anymore, but I
used to have a list of these things

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and I would practice it before the
call So I knew what to talk about.

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Now, if you are somebody who gets nervous
easily or you're a junior lawyer and

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you're worried you're going to talk
too fast, Practice with a recorder.

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Imagine you're somebody who
you admire and try to emulate

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the way they talk to clients.

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Confidence you wanna fake
it until you make it.

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And if you fake it enough, you'll
eventually have the confidence you need

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to convince a client to hire your firm.

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If you talk quickly, if you try to
rush the process, they're going to get

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suspicious and they're going to think
you're not a good lawyer or you don't

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have their best interests at heart.

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If you'd like a copy of any of the
things you heard about here today or

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to set up a time to talk 1 about 1 of
our team members about a case please

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go to Zinda Law dot io, and we have
amazing resources, downloads, guides,

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And you can set up a time to talk to us
if you wanna talk about how we handle

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things or any case in particular.

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So I'll start off by finding out what
happened leading up to the wreck in

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just a narrative format, asking what
happened next, What happened next?

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What happened next?

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And then I go through the
wreck and then to where we are

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today covering their treatment.

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At this point, I'm gonna know if
I want the case or not based on

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the facts that I've been given.

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If I don't want the case, I'm still
going to be very polite to them.

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I'm trying to make them a
referral source in the future.

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I'm going to let them down easily.

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Never blame the client
for not taking the case.

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You wanna talk about the way the law set
up may not be fair or the circumstances

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may or may not be right, but if you blame
them, they're gonna be upset with you.

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And I've actually gotten referrals from
clients that I've not Taken several times.

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That's because I'm empathetic.

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I care about them.

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I give them some helpful advice,
maybe on property damage or

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something that I can help them with.

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So I find out what happens and
I decide it's a case I want.

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Okay?

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Now I'm gonna go through my
background And I'm gonna have some

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talking points that make me seem
like the best lawyer on the planet.

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Now I know that sounds very arrogant.

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I'm I'm sure there's Lawyers that
are way better than me, but when

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it comes to sales, you have to come
across as extremely confident in your

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abilities without sounding like a jerk.

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And I do this by listing any
awards I've gotten, law school

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I went to, cases I've worked on.

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I also do that for the law firm,
Talk about other attorneys that we

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have, successes they've had without
sounding really braggadocious about it.

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Then we're gonna go through the
Contract itself and explain how

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these cases work big picture and then
drill down into specific parts of the

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contract such as what the percentage
fee is what the case expenses are.

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If you're in a jurisdiction where
there's a lot of people cutting their

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fees or advertising really cut rate,
You won't be prepared to address

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that, explain why your firm's better.

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And if it's something where you
feel like you should cut the fee,

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just be prepared to do that so
you can get the person signed up.

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Your backup goal, if you don't get them
signed up, is to get a next appointment

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to talk about their case further.

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If that's the case, you want to make sure
that you inoculate yourself from other

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lawyers taking your case by saying why
your firm's different and distinguishing

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yourself from other law firms.

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Don't bad mouth Firms, but we'll talk
about in general, you know, there's

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some firms that are high volume, some
firms where you won't actually talk

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to a lawyer, Some firms that aren't
used to handling trucking cases.

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So I'm making them think about the
things they'd wanna ask those other

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law firms if they're shopping around.

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Then I may offer to do some
free work before they even hire.

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Say, hey, would it be okay if I got the
crash report and started looking into this

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to decide, is this a case That we could
help you with so you've got a head start.

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And if you don't hire us, no problem.

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I'll be happy to share
whatever I gather with you.

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And then I might send the crash
report to the client, Show them some

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information we gather to show them that
how good we are, how responsive we are.

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Make sure you set a follow-up
appointment with a date and time that's

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Pretty recent in decision making.

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If they're not the decision makers
make sure that next person on

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the call with you is with you.

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Sometimes it's a spouse.

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Sometimes it's a parent, even with adults.

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Sometimes it's a sibling.

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But you wanna make sure
they're on the next call.

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Okay.

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Here we are.

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So we got it signed up.

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We locked the client in.

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They love us.

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They're ready to rock and roll,
But your work is not done.

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You still don't know if you have a case.

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Okay?

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At our firm, we have a phase in the
case we call the investigation stage.

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So in the investigation stage we
want to establish for sure that

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this is a case we want and we
give ourselves 14 days to do it.

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Okay.

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In some circumstances it can take
longer than that, but overall 14

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days is what we're shooting for.

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That staging includes 3 things.

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First, Proving liability
without your client's testimony.

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Doesn't necessarily
have to be crash report.

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It could be witnesses.

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It could be circumstantial evidence,
But you need to have substantive

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evidence that the case happened
the way the client said it did.

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Number 2, You want to make sure
you fully evaluate the client,

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find out their background, their
histories, or anything that's going

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to prevent you from settling the case.

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We had a case recently where 1 of
our clients had a big Lien that we

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were not aware of the client was
hoping by keeping it from us that

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we may not have to address it.

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Well, it came time to settle the tax lien
of course comes up because we always do a

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search for those things and the client is
refusing to move forward with resolving

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it because The money would go to the IRS.

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Now we've done a whole bunch of free work.

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We got them actually an incredible
result And they don't wanna do anything

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because the net they're not gonna
get very much money in their pocket.

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And unfortunately, IRS is 1 of those
issues where it's very difficult

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to get them to Cut it back so
you can give money to the client.

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So you want to make sure you like the
client, you think they're a good fit.

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You do background research on them.

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Next, you want to see if the
damages meet your minimum threshold.

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Sometimes people come in because
They are upset about property damage.

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They need a rental car.

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They just have questions and
they're not always Hurt as bad as

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you think they are in order for
them to justify having a case.

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I'm a real big believer in you don't
want to Try to get people to get

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treatment that, that don't, they
don't believe they're hurt or they

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don't think they, they need it.

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You wanna at least focus on
the clients that are truly

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injured That needs your help.

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You're gonna be much happier as
an attorney doing that, and the

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cases are gonna be a lot easier.

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1 thing I believe is our job is to tell
the truth, And the truth always comes out.

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And if you look at your job that way
and your job is to present the best

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version of the truth and fight for
your clients, it becomes a lot easier

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because if you think the truth is not
going to be good for your case, you

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may not want to take the case at all.

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So we're going to figure
out how hurt the client is.

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You can usually tell in the
first 2 weeks, you know, do

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they need additional treatment?

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Have they had follow-up appointments?

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Things like that.

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Next, we're gonna establish
the source of recovery.

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Now this is key.

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You wanna make sure that you get an
acknowledgement letter from an insurance

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company saying there's insurance Coverage.

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If you can't identify an insurance
company, we have a whole bunch of

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tricks that we use for different
types of cases to identify insurance.

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Happy to share those with anyone if
they wanna reach out send it to me.

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We have, like, a checklist that
we follow-up for each type of case

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to find the insurance policies.

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Occasionally, You have to file a
lawsuit to do that, but most of the

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time you can figure it out beforehand.

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So We establish the liability that
they're harmed enough and their

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source of recovery is available.

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And that's 3 items that We track every
day for every case that we sign up.

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We end up stepping away for, from about
half the cases that we initially sign up.

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And we have an 8 percent acceptance
rate overall of potential clients.

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Now that's gonna differ than most other
firms, But we know what we're good at.

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We know the way we can make money,
and we've made more money every year.

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We've cut back on the number of cases that
we handle or the threshold that we handle.

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So don't be afraid to do that.

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Don't back down and and say, oh, man.

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I I really want this case.

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Now when you're starting out the cases
I started out in the beginning, A lot of

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them are really tough cases and I got a
good result in them, but I would not take

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00:16:14,244 --> 00:16:17,409
them now because it was a ton of work,
ton of ligation, and it was, like, real

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lucky that I was able to get that outcome.

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But when you're early in your career,
you may have to take cases you would

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wanna take a year or 2 years from now.

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But know what your caseload limit
is so you can be sure that That

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you don't go over it with cases
that you don't want to resolve.

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And 1 easy trick is if you take each
case, you give it a value, and just

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assume I'm going to turn every case
within 1 year, That's how much in

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fees you'll make the following year.

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Now obviously some cases take longer, some
cases go less but that gives you a rough

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idea of the amount of fees you're having.

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00:16:49,404 --> 00:16:54,179
So if you have, You know, a hundred cases
worth 5000 in fees each, that's 500000

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in in potential attorneys fees you have,
which Sounds like a lot, but that's a lot

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00:16:58,834 --> 00:17:02,854
of cases to turn in 1 year and it's tough
to give each 1 individualized attention.

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00:17:04,279 --> 00:17:06,759
The other tip that you want
to keep in mind is you want to

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maintain that strong relationship,
especially early on in the case.

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I try to talk to my clients 3 or 4 times
in the first 2 weeks, and I actually

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00:17:15,774 --> 00:17:19,054
write down the things to remember that
make them special and that I want to

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talk to them about, such as them being
a teacher, them having grandkids.

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00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:26,684
I also do all of my client
meetings by appointment only.

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I know it's a little controversial, I
know some attorneys give their clients

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their cell phones numbers, which I'm
not opposed to, but I think that if you

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explain to the client, Hey listen, I want
to make sure when you and I are talking,

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I'm focused on nothing but your case.

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So I like to do meetings by appointment
only, kind of like a doctor.

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And so when you call me, my legal
assistant is going to schedule a time

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with us in real short fashion, maybe the
same day or the next day, To talk about

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00:17:52,249 --> 00:17:54,109
and answer whatever questions you have.

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00:17:54,219 --> 00:17:56,779
That allows you when they
call in, you're ready to go.

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00:17:56,779 --> 00:17:57,899
You have the file from you.

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00:17:57,899 --> 00:18:01,164
You reviewed where you're at, And
you don't sound foolish or like

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00:18:01,164 --> 00:18:02,124
you don't know what's going on.

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00:18:02,124 --> 00:18:06,044
I know for me personally, if I get a call
I wasn't expecting just kind of pops in,

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00:18:06,044 --> 00:18:11,869
I'm like yeah, the the status of your Card
property damages this, and you were the

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00:18:11,869 --> 00:18:17,934
person in the red light case versus I look
at the file and say, Oh, you know Jane

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00:18:17,934 --> 00:18:21,634
it looks like that your property damage
was taken care of how are you feeling

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00:18:22,044 --> 00:18:26,399
you know, how's it recovering, And ask
something about themselves personally.

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00:18:27,099 --> 00:18:29,519
And I think that it helps build
a much stronger relationship

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than doing it the other way.

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So to summarize a few points we
made today number 1, when you're

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evaluating the case on the front
end, make sure you have some sort of

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00:18:40,124 --> 00:18:41,904
person to do the initial screening.

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00:18:42,589 --> 00:18:45,789
Make sure you have clear scripts
and clear criteria for why

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00:18:45,789 --> 00:18:47,409
you want or don't want a case.

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00:18:48,069 --> 00:18:50,889
You wanna look at liability,
damages, source recovery.

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00:18:52,044 --> 00:18:55,884
Then when you're talking to the client,
make sure you build a connection, make

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00:18:55,884 --> 00:18:59,964
sure you learn something about themselves
and make sure you practice talking slowly,

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00:18:59,964 --> 00:19:02,369
confidently, and going through their file.

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00:19:02,589 --> 00:19:06,109
Then after the case signs up, don't
be afraid to get off of it early on

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00:19:06,109 --> 00:19:10,824
if it turns into facts that you didn't
think The case was what it said it was.

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00:19:11,164 --> 00:19:15,004
And then if it's a really significant case
and, you know, we practice nationwide,

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00:19:15,004 --> 00:19:18,579
I'm going to fly out and meet the client
sometime in 2 week period as well.

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00:19:18,599 --> 00:19:19,899
I hope this was helpful.

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00:19:19,959 --> 00:19:23,559
We have all sorts of checklists
and memos and SOPs on this.

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00:19:23,559 --> 00:19:25,419
The signup stage, we have scripts.

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00:19:25,799 --> 00:19:29,239
We have checklists for the investigation
stage, investigation items we look for.

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00:19:29,239 --> 00:19:32,279
So if you're interested in any of
those things, please reach out.

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00:19:32,279 --> 00:19:34,939
Happy to share it and you know,
rising tide of resiliency.

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00:19:35,544 --> 00:19:36,424
Till next time.

365
00:19:36,424 --> 00:19:36,924
Thanks.

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00:19:42,319 --> 00:19:45,379
Thanks for listening to today's
episode of The Effective Lawyer.

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00:19:45,679 --> 00:19:48,719
You can learn more about our
team and find other episodes of

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00:19:48,719 --> 00:19:51,139
our podcast at ZindaLaw dot com.

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00:19:51,384 --> 00:19:54,824
As always, we'd appreciate that you
subscribe, rate, and review the pod.

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00:19:54,824 --> 00:19:55,324
Thanks.