WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.750 --> 00:00:04.580 Mark Butler: Hey, this is Mark Butler and you are listening to a podcast for coaches 00:00:05.830 --> 00:00:11.830 in an open coaching call this week in my office hours membership, a member, a 00:00:11.830 --> 00:00:15.049 participant asked me a very kind question. 00:00:15.059 --> 00:00:17.750 She said, how did you become such a good listener? 00:00:17.750 --> 00:00:22.530 And she specifically referred to my ability to recall details 00:00:22.530 --> 00:00:23.870 from past coaching sessions. 00:00:24.810 --> 00:00:27.960 And she also referred to the fact that I've told her before 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:30.050 that I don't take notes. 00:00:30.080 --> 00:00:32.960 I don't have any sort of note taking mechanism in my coaching practice. 00:00:33.470 --> 00:00:39.940 And at this point I don't use any kind of AI summary tool or anything like that. 00:00:41.860 --> 00:00:46.100 Well, I really appreciated the question and I'll come back to the part where 00:00:46.100 --> 00:00:50.540 she talked about my ability to remember details from previous conversations. 00:00:51.605 --> 00:00:55.955 But I think the question of what makes a coach a great listener is a 00:00:55.955 --> 00:01:00.174 very important one, because I don't really believe there's just one kind 00:01:00.174 --> 00:01:05.035 of great listener, I believe that all of us can become more effective in our 00:01:05.035 --> 00:01:08.465 listening, in our coaching sessions. 00:01:09.640 --> 00:01:11.780 but it won't look the same for all of us. 00:01:12.970 --> 00:01:16.940 I believe there are principles that apply to listening in every situation, 00:01:17.430 --> 00:01:21.809 but the specific application of those principles will vary depending on who we 00:01:21.809 --> 00:01:27.980 are, who our clients are, and what the promise of the coaching experience is. 00:01:30.430 --> 00:01:36.090 I have a strongly held belief that one of the biggest reasons people engage 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:42.150 with coaches and with therapists is that we listen better and more deeply. 00:01:43.140 --> 00:01:48.460 Then the people that are in our clients lives, they may have great people in 00:01:48.460 --> 00:01:52.430 their lives, but most of the people that are in their lives are people that 00:01:52.439 --> 00:01:54.639 have some sort of skin in the game. 00:01:55.390 --> 00:01:58.200 They need something or want something from our client. 00:01:59.180 --> 00:02:00.310 And this is true of all of us. 00:02:00.320 --> 00:02:02.380 This is true of me and my relationships. 00:02:02.570 --> 00:02:06.650 This is true of the people that I love in their relationships with me and others. 00:02:06.700 --> 00:02:10.070 This is a very human thing that we do tend to have skin in 00:02:10.070 --> 00:02:11.630 the game in our relationships. 00:02:11.929 --> 00:02:15.710 And it does impact our ability to listen deeply. 00:02:16.059 --> 00:02:21.590 And with pure, maybe not quite pure, but , with real compassion, real neutrality. 00:02:22.410 --> 00:02:27.879 I believe that the ability to listen deeply and listen well is the most 00:02:27.880 --> 00:02:29.829 important skill that a coach develops. 00:02:31.310 --> 00:02:35.959 But exactly how we develop that skill and exactly how we apply it will vary 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:39.519 depending on our own disposition and, and what promises we've made to our clients. 00:02:40.790 --> 00:02:41.709 So let's talk about it. 00:02:41.739 --> 00:02:46.140 Of course, we've all heard some of the standard truisms 00:02:46.140 --> 00:02:47.489 or platitudes about listening. 00:02:47.579 --> 00:02:52.160 I am all for those things like listen actively and don't listen to respond. 00:02:52.630 --> 00:02:57.010 But I want to talk about these things in the specific context of a coaching session 00:02:57.910 --> 00:02:58.930 let's start here. 00:02:59.709 --> 00:03:05.250 The question for you to ask yourself first is what is your definition of coaching? 00:03:06.410 --> 00:03:11.140 Do you view coaching as primarily a talking thing or 00:03:11.140 --> 00:03:13.199 primarily a listening thing? 00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:18.800 Of course, it's not one or the other but which way does your bias lean? 00:03:19.560 --> 00:03:23.750 I view coaching as more of a listening thing than a talking thing. 00:03:24.865 --> 00:03:29.135 Of course, there's some irony in that coming out of my mouth because I am 00:03:29.605 --> 00:03:33.780 such a talker I talk All the time. 00:03:34.260 --> 00:03:38.339 My wife listens to me talk all the time when I'm in a group of friends. 00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:39.640 I'm loud. 00:03:40.110 --> 00:03:41.070 I'm making jokes. 00:03:41.100 --> 00:03:42.150 I'm laughing loud. 00:03:42.970 --> 00:03:46.760 I'm not usually the person in a social setting to sit back and be quiet. 00:03:46.760 --> 00:03:47.970 Many of you probably are. 00:03:48.229 --> 00:03:49.179 That's not me. 00:03:49.959 --> 00:03:54.789 I'm a loud guy in many settings, but there are some settings and in 00:03:54.789 --> 00:03:56.329 particular in my coaching sessions. 00:03:56.724 --> 00:04:02.634 Where I'm very quiet, maybe if I'm honest with myself, sometimes too quiet. 00:04:03.174 --> 00:04:05.864 Sometimes I think I listen too much. 00:04:06.279 --> 00:04:07.169 But we'll come back to that. 00:04:08.529 --> 00:04:12.119 The first question you've got to ask yourself is do I view coaching 00:04:12.139 --> 00:04:15.659 as primarily a talking thing or primarily a listening thing? 00:04:16.590 --> 00:04:20.500 Now, even though I just said that I believe coaching's 00:04:20.530 --> 00:04:23.560 greatest attribute is the deep. 00:04:24.100 --> 00:04:27.810 Neutral to compassionate listening that it offers clients. 00:04:28.450 --> 00:04:32.270 I also understand that there's another way of being in coaching 00:04:32.270 --> 00:04:37.410 that does involve more talking, more teaching, more training. 00:04:37.530 --> 00:04:38.950 And that's totally great. 00:04:38.960 --> 00:04:40.650 That can be the business that you're in. 00:04:41.110 --> 00:04:45.329 That's why I ask you to ask yourself the question, Do I believe that my 00:04:45.330 --> 00:04:47.070 job is more talking or more listening? 00:04:47.790 --> 00:04:53.390 If you believe that your job is more talking, Then the listening you do will 00:04:53.390 --> 00:04:59.270 be more in service of confirming that your listener is understanding what 00:04:59.270 --> 00:05:04.440 you're attempting to impart so that you know, whether you're doing the job that 00:05:04.440 --> 00:05:08.930 you promised, you're probably in some sort of a training or teaching situation. 00:05:08.950 --> 00:05:12.740 And in that setting, your job is to transfer knowledge. 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:18.340 Maybe to transfer enthusiasm and in that case the most important thing 00:05:18.340 --> 00:05:24.610 the listening does is confirm that the learner is Capturing what the teacher 00:05:24.630 --> 00:05:30.909 intends so that the teacher can continue with the teaching or adjust the teaching 00:05:30.930 --> 00:05:36.320 as needed but if you view the job of coaching as more listening than talking, 00:05:38.180 --> 00:05:42.540 then I would encourage you to embrace the idea that listening is a skill. 00:05:42.920 --> 00:05:47.140 To be built and to be refined over time. 00:05:48.220 --> 00:05:51.470 I do think I was a born listener. 00:05:51.960 --> 00:05:53.540 Now that's not a brag. 00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:56.340 And the reason I want to say it's not a brag is that sometimes when we 00:05:56.340 --> 00:05:58.990 describe good friends, we say, Oh, they're just such a good listener. 00:05:59.490 --> 00:05:59.970 And I agree. 00:05:59.970 --> 00:06:00.730 That's a compliment. 00:06:00.730 --> 00:06:03.190 I appreciate my friends who give me that gift. 00:06:03.930 --> 00:06:06.560 But when I say, I think I was a born listener. 00:06:06.610 --> 00:06:12.010 I remember specific experiences like one in high school where a very good friend 00:06:12.010 --> 00:06:16.290 of mine had been through a very hard time, a time that was difficult enough that 00:06:16.290 --> 00:06:17.840 she'd had to leave school for a while. 00:06:17.840 --> 00:06:21.760 And I remember sitting in a classroom with her probably after school one 00:06:21.760 --> 00:06:24.610 day, and she was telling me the story. 00:06:25.185 --> 00:06:28.425 Of her difficulties and her time away from school. 00:06:29.015 --> 00:06:35.145 And I remember the experience of listening to her and how much I enjoyed 00:06:35.145 --> 00:06:36.865 it, how meaningful it was to me. 00:06:37.515 --> 00:06:42.055 And even more than that, I remember that near the end of that conversation, 00:06:42.745 --> 00:06:45.665 she thanked me for listening so well. 00:06:46.070 --> 00:06:47.960 And told me how much it meant to her. 00:06:47.970 --> 00:06:50.210 Now, at this point, we're 17 years old. 00:06:51.070 --> 00:06:52.710 This is my senior year of high school. 00:06:53.990 --> 00:06:58.880 I look back on that experience and I say, okay, even that kid, all those 00:06:58.880 --> 00:07:00.810 years ago, that's almost 30 years ago. 00:07:01.570 --> 00:07:03.120 He liked to listen. 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:06.580 So I do think it's built into me. 00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:10.330 My early professional experience strengthened. 00:07:11.110 --> 00:07:13.080 My enthusiasm and my ability as a listener. 00:07:13.080 --> 00:07:16.590 My very first sales job was in a call center. 00:07:17.910 --> 00:07:19.610 It was a call center where we were selling. 00:07:19.650 --> 00:07:22.720 Ironically, we were selling coaching and the coaching was quite expensive. 00:07:22.740 --> 00:07:30.230 And my job in the sales process was to do initial conversations 00:07:30.230 --> 00:07:31.660 with prospective clients. 00:07:32.650 --> 00:07:38.570 And find out what difficulties or pains they were experiencing and how, and 00:07:38.570 --> 00:07:44.020 trying to make a connection to how the coaching we offered could be a solution 00:07:44.020 --> 00:07:45.570 to the pain they were experiencing. 00:07:47.090 --> 00:07:51.130 So it wasn't my job to make a sale for at least the first 00:07:51.160 --> 00:07:52.510 couple of years in that job. 00:07:52.930 --> 00:07:54.754 It was my job to deeply understand. 00:07:54.915 --> 00:08:03.125 Understand where the prospective client was, how they were feeling and what 00:08:03.135 --> 00:08:06.895 might move the needle for them, what might help them feel enthusiastic 00:08:06.895 --> 00:08:08.795 about the offer we were going to make. 00:08:11.315 --> 00:08:17.935 So what that looked like in practice was me sitting in a bank of cubicles 00:08:17.945 --> 00:08:25.025 with 150 other sales reps in a very loud call center with an old school headset 00:08:25.045 --> 00:08:31.415 on my head, with my Hands cupped over my headset, with my eyes closed, my 00:08:31.415 --> 00:08:35.035 elbows on my cubicle desk, listening. 00:08:35.670 --> 00:08:41.210 deeply to try to understand what is this person thinking? 00:08:41.490 --> 00:08:42.930 What is this person feeling? 00:08:43.310 --> 00:08:44.900 What is motivating this person? 00:08:45.640 --> 00:08:47.510 Are they engaged with what I'm saying? 00:08:47.610 --> 00:08:49.420 Are they apathetic toward what I'm saying? 00:08:49.960 --> 00:08:51.170 Are they telling the truth? 00:08:51.260 --> 00:08:52.530 Are they holding back? 00:08:54.170 --> 00:08:58.560 It was in that call center that I got my first real experience listening 00:08:58.570 --> 00:09:00.640 to what are called paraverbal cues. 00:09:01.490 --> 00:09:09.835 Paraverbal cues are silence and Sounds that are not words, but 00:09:09.835 --> 00:09:11.835 that do communicate information. 00:09:12.415 --> 00:09:20.975 So these are ums and ahs and hmm, and silence pauses the length of the pause. 00:09:21.445 --> 00:09:28.215 Now, am I claiming to have some sort of scientific ability to say that Oh, a pause 00:09:28.215 --> 00:09:30.555 of this many seconds indicates something. 00:09:30.595 --> 00:09:31.865 No, of course not. 00:09:32.045 --> 00:09:33.045 Of course not. 00:09:33.465 --> 00:09:38.115 And I'm not some super human savant when it comes to this stuff. 00:09:39.495 --> 00:09:42.205 All I'm saying is if I think about being at that job for almost four 00:09:42.205 --> 00:09:45.965 years, And in that time, there was an expectation that we would be on 00:09:45.965 --> 00:09:51.105 the phones 15 to 20 hours per week, actually talking to prospective clients 00:09:53.695 --> 00:10:02.115 even if I round down, I end up with in the neighborhood of 2, hours of listening. 00:10:02.505 --> 00:10:04.095 Now, of course, I was also talking. 00:10:05.340 --> 00:10:09.190 But 000 hours of deep listening. 00:10:09.260 --> 00:10:12.460 And I know it was deep listening because my paycheck depended 00:10:12.910 --> 00:10:14.370 on how effective I was. 00:10:14.930 --> 00:10:16.410 It was commission only sales. 00:10:16.850 --> 00:10:20.830 So my ability to hear and to respond to what the prospective client 00:10:20.830 --> 00:10:25.450 was saying was a big factor in whether I made any money that week. 00:10:26.250 --> 00:10:28.870 And there were weeks that I made no money and there were 00:10:28.870 --> 00:10:30.060 weeks where I made good money. 00:10:31.050 --> 00:10:32.340 My skill in listening. 00:10:32.690 --> 00:10:33.290 Mattered 00:10:35.950 --> 00:10:36.630 from there. 00:10:36.740 --> 00:10:42.450 I went into coaching and now I probably have another 2, 500 00:10:42.450 --> 00:10:47.500 hours of Coaching experience and in that coaching experience. 00:10:48.130 --> 00:10:52.930 I pride myself on Listening a lot and listening. 00:10:52.930 --> 00:10:56.080 Well now what does listening? 00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:57.760 Well mean to me? 00:10:58.670 --> 00:11:03.320 Listening well means not being scared of silence first and foremost. 00:11:03.950 --> 00:11:05.310 I'm not scared of silence. 00:11:05.340 --> 00:11:06.860 I'm not scared of a pause. 00:11:08.760 --> 00:11:15.340 When I'm coaching, I'm using my client's body language and 00:11:15.340 --> 00:11:17.180 then their paraverbal signals. 00:11:17.880 --> 00:11:25.520 to tell me how to respond, including how long to pause before replying, , how 00:11:25.520 --> 00:11:29.870 fast my pace of speech should be in replying to them, what tone of voice 00:11:29.870 --> 00:11:32.350 to use, what volume of speech to use. 00:11:33.110 --> 00:11:33.820 Don't get me wrong. 00:11:33.820 --> 00:11:37.480 I don't have some formula that I'm using to. 00:11:38.035 --> 00:11:41.305 Turn knobs and pull levers and twist dials as I'm talking to my clients. 00:11:41.305 --> 00:11:45.665 Of course, it's all very instinctive But I'm aware of it as it's happening. 00:11:46.585 --> 00:11:48.905 I'm aware of thoughts that sound like this. 00:11:50.435 --> 00:11:55.965 Oh, he's He's pretty uncomfortable right now or she seems dysregulated 00:11:57.175 --> 00:12:01.745 Oh her face is doing a certain thing that indicates something to me. 00:12:01.875 --> 00:12:05.275 Oh, her breath is a certain way She's talking fast. 00:12:06.125 --> 00:12:11.205 Oh, the emotion seems to be very close to the surface I'm observing all of 00:12:11.205 --> 00:12:15.105 that and it's impacting how I reply. 00:12:16.605 --> 00:12:22.155 I will try to prove to my clients that I'm listening both now and that 00:12:22.155 --> 00:12:23.735 I was listening in previous sessions. 00:12:24.715 --> 00:12:32.035 When I say things like, Hey, by the way, just setting aside what 00:12:32.035 --> 00:12:33.285 we're talking about for a minute. 00:12:34.155 --> 00:12:37.785 I want to tell you that I'm noticing a real difference in your energy today. 00:12:38.845 --> 00:12:42.945 And it's not contrived, it's not formulaic, it's just 00:12:42.965 --> 00:12:45.205 when I see it, I say it. 00:12:46.395 --> 00:12:50.885 You seem up today, or you seem open today. 00:12:51.575 --> 00:12:55.635 You seem energized today or the opposite. 00:12:55.655 --> 00:12:57.895 Hey, you seem down. 00:12:57.895 --> 00:12:59.025 Am I misreading this? 00:12:59.035 --> 00:13:00.035 What's going on? 00:13:00.725 --> 00:13:03.045 Is there anything particular weighing on you today? 00:13:03.065 --> 00:13:05.025 Maybe that we're not even talking about right now. 00:13:07.325 --> 00:13:10.605 These are ways for me to signal that I'm paying attention and 00:13:10.605 --> 00:13:11.995 that I always pay attention. 00:13:13.770 --> 00:13:19.350 I'm willing to be wrong I'm open to them saying, Oh, I actually 00:13:19.350 --> 00:13:20.980 know I don't have any idea. 00:13:20.980 --> 00:13:22.740 I feel the same as always. 00:13:23.080 --> 00:13:23.700 I feel fine. 00:13:23.700 --> 00:13:26.180 I feel good or whatever they might say. 00:13:27.870 --> 00:13:33.930 I'm willing to throw out a question like that and have it not 00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:35.750 pay off in some meaningful way. 00:13:36.830 --> 00:13:44.840 I'm not trying to get my clients to comment on my deep insight, my incredible 00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:47.740 awareness or my special cleverness. 00:13:48.670 --> 00:13:55.260 Sometimes I struggle when I hear coaches use words like intuitive or intuition, not 00:13:55.260 --> 00:14:01.930 because I don't believe in those things, but when I hear a coach describe herself 00:14:01.930 --> 00:14:05.440 or himself as especially intuitive, 00:14:08.650 --> 00:14:15.580 there is a little question in my mind that says is that coach attempting 00:14:15.580 --> 00:14:18.760 to manipulate their client into commenting on their intuitiveness. 00:14:20.975 --> 00:14:25.785 Does the coach want the client to say, Oh, , you just know how to read me 00:14:25.785 --> 00:14:28.185 or you're so intuitive or whatever. 00:14:28.185 --> 00:14:34.425 I can, that's not a bad thing necessarily, but if the coach starts to really buy 00:14:34.425 --> 00:14:40.455 into a view of themselves as deeply intuitive and starts to advertise that. 00:14:42.520 --> 00:14:46.640 It seems like sometimes , we're a short walk over to a coach claiming to be some 00:14:46.640 --> 00:14:49.650 sort of clairvoyant and it does happen. 00:14:50.390 --> 00:14:55.780 And I am willing to say on this podcast that I am not in favor of that. 00:14:55.860 --> 00:15:01.750 Now if I have clairvoyance in the audience, well, I suppose you knew 00:15:01.750 --> 00:15:02.620 I was going to say that anyway. 00:15:02.620 --> 00:15:03.110 Didn't you? 00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:03.740 Just kidding. 00:15:05.590 --> 00:15:06.400 My point is. 00:15:07.905 --> 00:15:14.045 I want to make guesses based on my experience and instinct, and I want to 00:15:14.045 --> 00:15:15.965 share those guesses with my clients. 00:15:16.515 --> 00:15:23.495 I want those guesses to signal not that I'm so deep or so insightful, but 00:15:23.505 --> 00:15:26.805 that I'm paying very careful attention. 00:15:27.965 --> 00:15:32.560 And even when my guesses are wrong, Guesses about their current emotional 00:15:32.560 --> 00:15:35.700 state or why they might be thinking or feeling what they're thinking or 00:15:35.700 --> 00:15:40.630 feeling I'm willing to have those be wrong because even when they're wrong 00:15:40.660 --> 00:15:46.000 I think they signal to my client that I'm paying very careful attention 00:15:48.540 --> 00:15:54.660 I want them to believe and I want it to be true that I'm Listening hard and 00:15:54.660 --> 00:15:59.190 listening deeply and that I'm effortful in the attention that I'm paying 00:16:00.860 --> 00:16:04.450 I think this is crucial for building trust and rapport with a client. 00:16:05.760 --> 00:16:09.100 I don't have a lot of clients who come back to me necessarily and tell me, 00:16:11.730 --> 00:16:13.510 Oh, you're such an amazing listener. 00:16:14.060 --> 00:16:16.570 None are really coming to mind at the moment, actually. 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:21.060 But I try to be that for my clients. 00:16:21.330 --> 00:16:25.820 I try to pay more careful attention to them than maybe anyone else in their life. 00:16:28.490 --> 00:16:33.130 And in doing that, I'm hoping to build trust such that they feel comfortable 00:16:33.130 --> 00:16:39.490 revealing things to themselves above all else that they might not otherwise 00:16:39.490 --> 00:16:43.690 reveal, that they might gain insights that they might not otherwise. 00:16:46.560 --> 00:16:50.000 If I can give you a tip or a hack, although I don't think it's a hack 00:16:52.930 --> 00:16:55.610 to becoming a better listener for your clients. 00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:01.190 You've all heard that Active Listening 101 prescribes that when you listen, you 00:17:01.190 --> 00:17:06.020 don't listen with an intent to reply, you listen with an intent to understand. 00:17:06.820 --> 00:17:08.070 And of course I agree with that. 00:17:09.320 --> 00:17:16.280 A way that you can actually do that more easily is by listening 00:17:16.280 --> 00:17:20.770 to what your client is saying and attempting to watch the movie in 00:17:20.770 --> 00:17:23.600 your mind that they are narrating. 00:17:24.970 --> 00:17:29.660 So when I'm talking to a client and they are telling me about an 00:17:29.660 --> 00:17:32.310 interaction with a loved one or a boss. 00:17:33.065 --> 00:17:38.535 Or a difficult conversation that they had, or a childhood experience. 00:17:39.075 --> 00:17:41.545 I'm actually watching the movie in my head. 00:17:42.725 --> 00:17:47.915 So instead of preparing to react, I'm just watching a movie 00:17:49.675 --> 00:17:52.525 that disconnects me from judgment. 00:17:53.105 --> 00:17:55.485 It disconnects me from anxiety. 00:17:57.545 --> 00:17:59.885 And I think it changes , my face. 00:18:00.655 --> 00:18:03.755 I think it changes my face and my body language such that. 00:18:05.095 --> 00:18:06.255 They may feel at ease. 00:18:06.255 --> 00:18:10.945 I have, a close friend who's also been a client for a good while now. 00:18:10.945 --> 00:18:18.715 And she told me once that when I'm coaching, my face is so neutral that 00:18:18.725 --> 00:18:25.495 sometimes she does wonder if either zoom froze or if I am still listening. 00:18:26.025 --> 00:18:28.345 , she said this in a very kind and complimentary way. 00:18:29.135 --> 00:18:32.145 And I took it that way, which is very nice of her to say, it did give me a 00:18:32.145 --> 00:18:39.275 little bit of a question about, okay, maybe I'm too flat in my expressions when 00:18:39.275 --> 00:18:43.745 I'm coaching a client, because I do want my client to know that I am listening 00:18:44.225 --> 00:18:45.985 and I'm listening with real intent. 00:18:46.545 --> 00:18:49.845 And maybe I should just tell them, Hey, I'm just over here watching the 00:18:49.845 --> 00:18:53.995 movie in my head, you're describing a scenario and it's unfolding in my mind. 00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:59.220 And then as they conclude their description of the scenario, then I do 00:18:59.220 --> 00:19:04.360 switch back on curiosity, assessment or discernment, whatever word you like. 00:19:04.770 --> 00:19:08.060 Then I'm coming to them with questions about the movie I just watched. 00:19:09.060 --> 00:19:13.530 And in this way, I think I can be very effective. 00:19:13.530 --> 00:19:18.900 I think I can prove how deeply I was listening by making it clear to my 00:19:18.900 --> 00:19:20.670 client, I was watching the movie. 00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:22.640 I was seeing these characters interact. 00:19:23.445 --> 00:19:27.805 I was considering how those characters were feeling in that interaction. 00:19:28.175 --> 00:19:31.035 And having done that, here are my follow up questions. 00:19:31.905 --> 00:19:32.945 It really helps. 00:19:33.245 --> 00:19:34.235 Watch the movie in your head. 00:19:35.735 --> 00:19:38.875 In that classic book, how to win friends and influence people. 00:19:40.175 --> 00:19:40.975 It's by Dale Carnegie. 00:19:42.605 --> 00:19:46.525 He says that the most interesting people are the most interested people. 00:19:47.430 --> 00:19:49.600 And I believe that that is a timeless principle. 00:19:50.010 --> 00:19:55.600 We will notice ourselves enjoying and feeling most comfortable around 00:19:55.730 --> 00:19:57.940 the people who listen to us best. 00:19:58.970 --> 00:20:05.660 We will also notice ourselves feeling less comfortable around 00:20:05.670 --> 00:20:11.460 people who Talk more than they listen, who don't listen that well. 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:15.000 Our anxiety will be higher around those people, especially 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:16.370 depending on their anxiety level. 00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:20.980 Our boredom will increase if they're only interested in themselves. 00:20:21.560 --> 00:20:26.130 So coaching provides us with this incredible opportunity 00:20:27.130 --> 00:20:30.220 to almost industrialize. 00:20:30.745 --> 00:20:35.535 The principle that the most interesting people are the most interested people 00:20:37.625 --> 00:20:41.385 as we make our clients and their stories and their experiences and 00:20:41.385 --> 00:20:42.855 their thoughts and their feelings. 00:20:44.355 --> 00:20:48.045 The most interesting thing in the world to us, they will feel it. 00:20:48.415 --> 00:20:49.625 The trust will be there. 00:20:50.345 --> 00:20:55.145 The insights will come more easily for them and the coaching will pay. 00:20:57.375 --> 00:21:01.875 And by pay, I mean, of course, payoff, but also it's a good way to get to 00:21:01.935 --> 00:21:03.285 continue to get paid as a coach. 00:21:03.285 --> 00:21:03.655 If you. 00:21:04.455 --> 00:21:09.015 Really become a person who listens well who listens better than most 00:21:09.015 --> 00:21:14.465 of the people they interact with in their life so I Don't think you 00:21:14.475 --> 00:21:16.595 have to have a superhuman memory. 00:21:17.465 --> 00:21:23.575 I do have a very weird memory I've shared this before I remember odd 00:21:23.575 --> 00:21:28.865 facts odd details sentences from sometimes weeks months and years 00:21:28.865 --> 00:21:34.210 ago But I can't necessarily remember why I went into the kitchen. 00:21:34.280 --> 00:21:36.970 I don't think I'm unusual in that, especially as I age. 00:21:36.970 --> 00:21:39.600 I think as we age, that becomes a more common occurrence. 00:21:40.860 --> 00:21:44.800 But I do have the ability to recall threads of conversations that happened 00:21:44.800 --> 00:21:46.960 weeks and months ago, sometimes years ago. 00:21:48.300 --> 00:21:50.910 I don't think that's a prerequisite for being an effective coach. 00:21:52.270 --> 00:21:57.165 I think that if I didn't have that, and even though I do have that, I think 00:21:57.185 --> 00:22:01.845 my clients might be well served if I would at least experiment with some 00:22:01.845 --> 00:22:07.375 sort of AI summarization tool, , with creating transcripts of , my client 00:22:07.375 --> 00:22:10.505 calls, and then referring back to those transcripts because I have done that 00:22:10.505 --> 00:22:12.515 here and there and it does yield insight. 00:22:13.405 --> 00:22:20.025 So part of being a great listener could be a willingness to study 00:22:20.025 --> 00:22:21.155 the recordings of your calls. 00:22:23.170 --> 00:22:26.330 Maybe you don't have to be the all time best listener in the moment. 00:22:26.340 --> 00:22:30.710 Maybe it's a willingness to record and to review the calls 00:22:30.760 --> 00:22:33.380 that you do and learn from those. 00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:37.870 But I don't think a superhuman memory is required. 00:22:38.670 --> 00:22:44.150 I think what's required is a belief that listening matters and is powerful. 00:22:45.350 --> 00:22:49.630 I think curiosity and care about your clients, their lives 00:22:49.670 --> 00:22:52.220 and their stories is powerful. 00:22:53.340 --> 00:22:55.500 I think silence is extremely powerful 00:22:56.730 --> 00:22:58.730 and I think watching the movie in your mind is powerful. 00:22:59.975 --> 00:23:02.755 And if all of that is built on a belief that coaching is more about 00:23:02.765 --> 00:23:04.345 listening than it is about talking, 00:23:05.345 --> 00:23:06.495 we kind of can't go wrong. 00:23:07.405 --> 00:23:09.735 And with that, I will talk to you next time.