Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Join NABR in partnership with Corp! Magazine for our CEO & Executive Thought Leadership Series, where Jennifer Kluge sits down with C-Suite Leaders to get their insight and expertise.
NABR is a service organization igniting greatness in companies and their people.
00;00;00;03 - 00;00;12;09
Jennifer
Okay, well welcome everyone. I am Jennifer Kluge. And with us today is Mark Peters. He is the longtime leader and CEO of Butterball Farms. Welcome, Mark.
00;00;12;12 - 00;00;14;01
Mark
Good morning. Jennifer. How are you doing?
00;00;14;04 - 00;00;21;28
Jennifer
Good good good. For those that don't know. Tell everyone a little bit about Butterball Farms and what you do there.
00;00;22;00 - 00;00;59;24
Mark
Right. So Butterball Farms, our company is a butter manufacturing company. And some people think about the turkey company. My father was involved in the development of the Butterball turkey a long, long time ago, and he sold his intellectual property rights in the borough while Turkey, in an effort to raise capital for our company, which he started in 1956, sold his IP rights in the mid to late 60s and licensed the name Butterball from the Butterball Turkey Company and paid the license through the year 2099.
00;00;59;27 - 00;01;13;15
Mark
So we make we make products that are our butter based, value added, added butter products. We try to stay out of the commodity space. There's some really big players in that space. So yeah, that's what we do.
00;01;13;17 - 00;01;33;10
Jennifer
Wonderful. That was the genius in and of itself right there. A nice, rich, wonderful history. I know you've written a book. We're going to talk about that a little bit today too. For those of you that don't know, Mark's company has been the best and brightest company workforce in the nation for over eight years, and it's a pleasure to have you with us.
00;01;33;10 - 00;01;56;02
Jennifer
And I can't wait to dive in here. Now let's talk a little bit more. You literally inherited the business. That must have been a very difficult transition with the passing of your dad. And all of a sudden, here's the company. Right. So tell us a little bit more about that for other leaders in a family business or second generation business.
00;01;56;06 - 00;01;58;26
Jennifer
It's not all easy, is it?
00;01;58;28 - 00;02;31;25
Mark
No, no, there's a lot. You know what happened at the transition of my dad's death? There was a there were a lot of things that went on, both from a business, estate planning and family kinds of things. And I even in my book, I touch a little bit, I'm at. But I was 30 years old when my dad passed away, and one of the things I tell people is I had an accounting degree, but I didn't have a background in finance, and I was I was determined to change the culture of our business, because I really didn't like the way my dad ran the company.
00;02;31;27 - 00;02;56;29
Mark
The. And so I was highly focused on on culture. What I wasn't focused on was finance. And so while I was building culture, I was literally taking a business that had no debt and ran pretty consistently and turning it into a fast growth company that was highly leveraged. And I just, I, I knew we were growing, but I didn't understand cash flow.
00;02;57;02 - 00;03;12;11
Mark
So within the first five years, I almost bankrupted the company, and I was standing on the edge of bankruptcy before I actually figured out what was going on. So there was a lot of moving pieces between 1995 and 2000.
00;03;12;11 - 00;03;35;10
Jennifer
So yeah, you were literally thrown in as a very young man. I mean, that's unprecedented. I would be surprised if you didn't have some hardships along the way. But those lessons learned, they toughen us and make us smarter for the next big challenge that comes our way. And you mentioned culture, and that's one of the things that we know you for.
00;03;35;10 - 00;03;58;15
Jennifer
But thank you for reminding us is more than a culture, a company. It's about profitability and operations and all the stuff that we make that needs to get out there, right? But I bet you never thought back then that we would be sitting here on the LinkedIn live talking about culture and how amazing your culture is for your company, and you're getting awards for it.
00;03;58;17 - 00;04;15;10
Jennifer
So that's got to feel good. Tell us a little bit more about what you did to improve the culture, the retention rates, and what you're continuing to do as it relates to your culture within your your company.
00;04;15;12 - 00;04;33;05
Mark
Yeah. You know, how do I do that and keep it short. That's a that's a challenge. You know, first to answer your first question about that, I ever dreamed I'd be sitting here, that we'd be getting awards for culture. No, never. I think the the driving force has always been, you know, what are we doing for the people that work for us?
00;04;33;06 - 00;05;03;10
Mark
And that goes to creating our mission statement, which is enrich lives. And then our six guiding principles and so really being focused on and you know, how how we're doing that in the workforce is really far more important than trying to get any sort of external accolades for anything that we were doing. It's it was more about, are we really being acting different than other employment experiences people have when they when they come to work for us?
00;05;03;12 - 00;05;20;26
Mark
And certainly different than the experiences they had working for my dad. I think that in the very beginning, it was trying to really break away and almost do 180 degree pivot. In that work experience people were having inside of our own company. What was the rest of your question? I'm sorry.
00;05;20;28 - 00;05;47;28
Jennifer
Derek. Well, you just figured a thought. It's it's really interesting because being a leader, it's more than making money. So I would assume, and forgive me if that's an a wrong assumption that your dad was about making prior to getting it out. Making money is is what I guess. And who cares about everything else? The people, the culture and and who cares how we get there?
00;05;48;00 - 00;06;18;06
Jennifer
And I don't want to make assumptions there, but as leaders, to me it's equally important to focus on the humans that we work with and their lives and their needs and their struggles. And you've done an incredible job doing that. That is, if you could say your culture in one word, if it had a personality, describe it to us now, culture now versus when, where it was before.
00;06;18;10 - 00;06;44;01
Mark
Yeah. I think I would have to just point back to our mission statement. I mean, that's really our folks. It's not. And it's two words, unfortunately. It's enrich lives. But but you know it. How how do we show up. How do our the people that work for us experience that mission statement? So if you would go out and talk to them and say, what does this mean to you and how it's going to be different for every person?
00;06;44;01 - 00;07;15;04
Mark
And I think that's, you know, that's where some of this stuff gets kind of interesting because we all bring our whole selves to work, and we all have we're very we're very interesting as people, right? We all have different likes and different backgrounds and different cultures and different beliefs, and we show up in a common workplace. And so what's important to us is, is almost to a person different and so I think that's a challenge.
00;07;15;04 - 00;07;24;12
Mark
How do you do culture holistically for the people that work for you instead of just the way I, I might think about it. For me.
00;07;24;15 - 00;07;57;07
Jennifer
Right is subjective, subjective. And I think it's pretty cool because you are a in the food industry, you're you make butter wonderful, beautiful butter, by the way, and your mission is to enrich lives is not about the butter. It's about enriching the you. You said it beautifully that says a multitude of of your culture. And I know you're very well respected for all that you've done with the company and all the success that you've had in your career.
00;07;57;09 - 00;08;00;29
Jennifer
Let's talk about the book, The Source. I see it behind you.
00;08;01;03 - 00;08;04;16
Mark
Yes. Oh, ring Ron Finger right here.
00;08;04;18 - 00;08;19;18
Jennifer
It's very smart. Tell us about the source. Not everyone raised the book. Not everyone is motivated to write a book. So let's there. What's what what morning did you wake up and say, oh, it's time to write a book. Tell us about.
00;08;19;20 - 00;08;57;00
Mark
Yeah. No, no. Morning. Did I wake up and say I want to write a book? So, I mean, first of all, if we go to the source, the book The Source is about the founding of the organization called The Source. And the source was really part of that early effort on my part to redefine our culture. And one of the things I realized is going back to that holistic need of of that people bring into a workplace is that we as a small company, we didn't have the bandwidth to address the stability issues that a lot of people that were coming to work for us faced, and I could not afford to do it
00;08;57;07 - 00;09;15;23
Mark
as a small company. I mean, I'm not a I'm not a nonprofit, I'm not a social service organization. We had a sales guy that came to us a few years ago, and his observation was, hey, if there's no margin, there's no mission. And he's right, you know, I mean, we've got it. You know, it's got to be financial responsibility, which I kind of learned in the first five years.
00;09;15;25 - 00;09;37;24
Mark
But the idea was that we could bring multiple employers together and task an outside organization with doing these things for the people that work for us and doing it in a very high quality way. And that's really what the book The Source was about. But you asked about what morning I woke up and decided I, I wrote a book, so I wanted to write a book.
00;09;37;26 - 00;09;59;22
Mark
I have a mentor and he's always pushing me to do stuff. I call him more of a protagonist. And so he I test as an extreme introvert, and I and I always have. And he was getting his coaching certificates and and he, he wanted me to be one of his guinea pigs. And he asked me he said, so you prefer to work by yourself?
00;09;59;26 - 00;10;17;24
Mark
I'm like, yeah, probably. He said, you really don't like other people giving you input. I'm like, not a lot. So I said, that's probably true at my core. And he said, how do you do your job as a CEO? I'm like, well, you learn a lot of behaviors because you have to rely on others and you have to trust them.
00;10;17;24 - 00;10;26;05
Mark
And, you know, you kind of have to bring them along. He says, well, I think you should do some public speaking. You know, it would help you with your introversion.
00;10;26;07 - 00;10;30;16
Jennifer
For public speaking, you must be like, yeah, no, no, thank you.
00;10;30;18 - 00;10;49;27
Mark
That's exactly what I said. And then he go that I finally was like, okay, I'll try it. And he said, well, it doesn't count till you get paid for it. So once I accomplished that, we were talking as well. Now I think you should write a book like, yeah, Greg. No way. I'm not write a book. Literally. Two years later, we're having dinner and I'm telling him about the sauce.
00;10;49;27 - 00;11;10;00
Mark
And this is probably, I don't know, this 15 years into the sauce, at 12 years between 12 and 14 or 15 years into the sauce. And we were talking about the success of the sauce. And he goes, I think that's your book. And I'm like, yeah, wait, wait a minute. I actually could write a book about that. I could write a book about that.
00;11;10;03 - 00;11;17;09
Mark
So that it literally was kind of birthed over a dinner with one of my mentors. And and I was in discussion.
00;11;17;09 - 00;11;19;02
Jennifer
Yeah. Very cool.
00;11;19;04 - 00;11;32;16
Mark
And then it took another two years to actually make it, make it happen. And, and you know, it's again, it's a bit entrepreneurial because I'd never written a book and had no idea how to do it. And, you know, yeah.
00;11;32;18 - 00;11;46;29
Jennifer
Well, we all need mentors in our lives that push us to do things that make us capable, but we might not see ourselves, you know? Have you paid that forward? Do you do that for anyone else? How do you mentor others?
00;11;47;01 - 00;12;00;28
Mark
I, I try to I don't think I, I'm not necessarily very formal at it, and I probably don't interact with my mentors. Like formally it's a little bit more ad hoc, but I'd like to think I do. Yeah.
00;12;01;00 - 00;12;13;29
Jennifer
So now you got to pay it forward and tell someone that, you know, is capable of doing something and tell them to do it. Let's work on that. Let us know what you inspire.
00;12;14;02 - 00;12;17;03
Mark
If that's the definition. I do that a lot.
00;12;17;05 - 00;12;42;21
Jennifer
That's great. That's great. That's wonderful. So as a as a seasoned executive, you know, we've all been through challenges before the Great Recession, you name it. We've been through all kinds of weird and wonky challenges. And on our pay, as you mentioned, a couple already. How is the pandemic hit different in your, in your opinion, than some of the challenges in the past?
00;12;42;25 - 00;13;12;00
Mark
I mean, that's a great question. You know, for us. First of all, it hit us fast. Like it hit us really fast. I mean, our primary business is food service. You know, restaurants and hotels were shut down like instantly, right? Within three weeks. And I think that the business reality of having, I don't know, 40% of your revenue go away overnight is it's a shock.
00;13;12;02 - 00;13;55;22
Mark
But what was interesting to me about it was we we spend a lot of time doing strategic planning and sort of scenario planning and trying to anticipate maybe things that that we can't see in normal trends or something like that. And I think there's always a tendency, especially maybe as a CEO, to think, what do we miss? But there was literally nothing in the way the pandemic occurred that we could look at our organization or our team or our people and say, there's there is there is nothing that we did that caused us to be in a situation that we're in.
00;13;55;22 - 00;14;20;06
Mark
We didn't miss anything. We weren't financially reckless. We we weren't careless with customers. We weren't careless with people. We weren't careless in our community. It it literally happened to us. Right. And so okay, let's not beat ourselves up. What are we going to do? What are we going to do? And how can we act again differently? How can we enrich lives given this situation that we have?
00;14;20;06 - 00;15;04;05
Mark
And I think we worked really hard to do that for our customers and for the people that work for us. And, you know, even like in my in my CEO peer group to to try to, you know, talk through at other CEOs and influence maybe the way they were responding to to the situation as well. So yeah, it just you know, there there is, there is organizational emotion, if you will, and to try to make sure that the leadership in the company didn't some way it feel we were at fault for what happened and that we really had within our skill set, the ability to manage through this which we which ultimately I think we
00;15;04;05 - 00;15;27;21
Mark
did, we did quite well. But that emotional response was was really unexpected. I mean, certainly the the financial risk, the financial reality was unexpected, but the internal corporate emotional response was something I would not have if you had said, what happened if some event occurred and you lost 50% of your revenue, I probably could have given you a scenario, but I would never have thought about the emotional response.
00;15;27;21 - 00;15;50;25
Jennifer
And yeah, yeah, that and that that there's a couple real cool things in what you just said. And you probably did this unknowingly. You said we had to enrich lives when it happened. I mean, you went right back to your mission is like, how can we enrich lives through this? It wasn't how can we go get, you know, 40% more revenue?
00;15;50;25 - 00;16;18;15
Jennifer
How can we enrich lives with everything going on? And the other thing, too, is I think many leaders worry that they're going to make the wrong decision, which will financially hurt operations. You know, the buck stops at the top, right? So that is a big subliminal fear of many leaders and CEOs is, oh my gosh, if I make the wrong decision, I this could really hurt a lot of people, right?
00;16;18;17 - 00;16;25;21
Jennifer
So and there was some relief in the pandemic that it wasn't on us.
00;16;25;23 - 00;16;26;28
Mark
Yeah.
00;16;27;00 - 00;16;35;00
Jennifer
I, I back then I think many people felt this. Well at least it wasn't my decision making that made this happen.
00;16;35;03 - 00;16;39;07
Mark
Right? Right. No, I bear I think that's what we experienced.
00;16;39;07 - 00;17;00;26
Jennifer
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a lot of, a lot of CEOs worry about a lot of things, don't we? Oh, gosh. Success is subjective. You know, everyone has a different definition of success. Success in life, success in business. What's important to you and what's your definition of success? And have you achieved it?
00;17;00;29 - 00;17;27;13
Mark
Oh my word. First of all, I don't I don't know that it's for me. I don't think it's ever achievable. I think I think success is it's ongoing. You know, I've been actually thinking a lot about this lately because I'm trying to pivot more to, to by promoting the book and doing some, you know, speaking around the country about about culture, about about the book, about talent.
00;17;27;15 - 00;17;37;25
Mark
And so where I am right now about defining success is it's inspiring others to take action that has positive change in the world.
00;17;37;27 - 00;17;47;03
Jennifer
Wow, wow. Just pause there for a second. That's very powerful. Making change. People.
00;17;47;05 - 00;18;11;03
Mark
If I if I can inspire others to take action that creates positive change. That is that's kind of the ultimate success. And I and I can I can draw that down to, you know, I can't force my daughter, for example, to do certain things or act certain ways. And she's 16 now that, you know, when she was two, there's certainly I could for certain things.
00;18;11;06 - 00;18;31;18
Mark
But at the end of the day, you want your influence as a person to inspire your kids to to take positive action. Right? And I think it's the same thing with people around you and whether they work for you or they're outside your organization. I would say I'm very comfortable right now with that definition of success.
00;18;31;21 - 00;19;00;13
Jennifer
That says a lot. That says a lot. Let's let's talk a little bit more about being the best and brightest company to work for. As I mentioned, you've been an winner of the national level for eight years as well as locally. If I were to walk into your operations as a team member, what are some of the customs or rituals or what could I expect as a team member?
00;19;00;19 - 00;19;03;20
Jennifer
What is my experience?
00;19;03;22 - 00;19;26;13
Mark
Right. Well, and I so I, I have to be I like to be authentic. We we you know, we do our cultural search. We do a culture survey beyond the best and brightest surveys that we do and, you know, you go back to the pandemic, which I think we we'd like to say we've successfully navigated through. And we leaned a lot on culture.
00;19;26;13 - 00;19;48;12
Mark
I mean, we had to downsize our organization. We had to make choices around around team members and, and all very difficult things to do. And then as we were coming out, we weren't certain about what business was going to come back and what wasn't and whether the new things we were trying were going to work. And so we were very cautious about bringing additional talent back.
00;19;48;12 - 00;20;16;16
Mark
You know, we didn't want to overload the payroll. And so we asked a lot of people in our organization coming out of the pandemic, and now we are in in a place where we're we're building our team again. And we're, we're we anticipate growing beyond where we were before the pandemic started, which is awesome. So to to get to your question, I think, you know, we're trying to get back to some of the behaviors that we had pre-pandemic.
00;20;16;19 - 00;20;20;09
Mark
We it's a it's hard.
00;20;20;12 - 00;20;37;28
Jennifer
This is the number one issue that the CEOs that of the best and brightest are telling us is trying to figure out what culture is now, what's hybrid work, what's all these different subcultures coming out. It's almost like starting over for many of us out there.
00;20;38;00 - 00;21;03;19
Mark
I think I think as I'm as I'm thinking about, you know, working on a second book and trying to really think about about what's going on in our organizations relative to talent and and not I'm not trying to not answer your question here. What I would hope you would find as a new team member coming into our organization is this idea or this idea that could I belong here?
00;21;03;21 - 00;21;27;26
Mark
Like, we want to create an environment where people will. It's not just about, can I do this job? It's a matter of, do I like being part of this environment? Is this a place I can I can be a part of? And I think there's an underlying question in people's minds about work these days, and I don't think it's about the work.
00;21;27;26 - 00;22;07;29
Mark
I think it's about belonging. I think it's like finding a place where I'm heard, I'm noticed, I'm valued. I feel like I belong here. I have some there's some other kind of stickiness for me. Besides, I'm competent to do this job. May we can competently do our jobs over zoom. We've all learned that. Right? But there's other things that we miss over zoom that, you know, if you look at the statistics of people that met their life partners in work, or how many people have best friends that were started in the workplace, or how many people started volunteering for an organization because they were introduced to it through the workplace?
00;22;07;29 - 00;22;16;27
Mark
Right. There's things that happen through work that create a sense of of belonging, like I'm a part of something in.
00;22;16;28 - 00;22;20;14
Jennifer
My purpose as well. Like purpose is very important.
00;22;20;17 - 00;22;35;13
Mark
So I would hope that coming in as a new team member, you would be like, wow, this place is different and I could see myself being a part of this wonderful welcoming.
00;22;35;14 - 00;22;58;26
Jennifer
You want it to be welcoming and people to be their authentic selves. Just as you've been authentic and transparent with us, with us, we. We recently did a survey and asked what some of the greatest challenges are right now. And we're hearing about, you know, the uncertainty of the economy, the inability to make long term decisions because of uncertainty.
00;22;58;26 - 00;23;22;29
Jennifer
Still with market conditions, supply chain woes, food industry shortages, trying to get some ingredients is very challenging for many in the food industry. What is your biggest challenge right now? And then let's talk when when we're done talking about that with what you're currently facing, let's go into the future and see what the next six months look like.
00;23;23;04 - 00;23;50;11
Mark
You know, I hate to be a little bit blunt about all those problems that you just brought up, but at some point it's the cost of doing business. If you don't like risk, then don't go into business. Yeah, we're all experiencing those problems, right? I mean, nobody none of my competitors aren't experiencing the same problems I'm experiencing. I think the biggest issue for me and where I think the solution lies is while we were just talking about and that's the culture shift.
00;23;50;13 - 00;24;21;29
Mark
And how do we how do we maintain this, this sense of belonging and how do we help people find success in their lives as part of their work or through their work or while they're working? Because at the end of the day, Jennifer, those problems that come up in a business, whether it's because of the pandemic or because of, you know, high interest rates or a drought or whatever it is that causes those disruptions in our businesses, it's the people being engaged in our business that are going to solve those problems.
00;24;22;01 - 00;24;39;28
Mark
I'm not going to solve any of them. Not really. I mean, I can help people dialog around them, I can help maybe. Have you thought about this? Have you thought about that? Here's an interesting article. Here's a contact I have. I can do all of that. But there it's the people being engaged in our enterprises that are going to help us solve those problems and chart that course.
00;24;39;28 - 00;25;14;14
Mark
Right. So for me, it's about what is that culture look like? And do our people feel like, you know, communicate honestly and openly to promote effective teamwork? Is one of our guy, one of our guidelines or one of our guiding principles. So if people feel like there's an authenticity in communication and they're not being surprised and they there's a level of comfort with what they're being told and, and what's being shared with them, and they can trust that that goes a long way in, in stability inside your organization.
00;25;14;17 - 00;25;16;07
Jennifer
So you're.
00;25;16;10 - 00;25;26;06
Mark
Irish, as I think the focus for me is, is is really the culture piece. And and then trusting our people to solve those problems that you brought, which.
00;25;26;06 - 00;25;57;12
Jennifer
Brings you back to your 30 year old self driving culture as a priority. I mean, it's it's within you. And that's probably what makes you such a great leader is it's about people and about caring for people. We haven't used that word. But that's really what is happening here is caring about the the person who's working with you so that they can be them genuine selves and, and you can be your genuine self that's really all about is so simple is brilliant right?
00;25;57;14 - 00;25;58;21
Mark
Right.
00;25;58;24 - 00;26;08;17
Jennifer
You'd be surprised how many companies don't have the basics down. And that's why you're one of the best and brightest. Which I work. Would you work them on?
00;26;08;20 - 00;26;34;03
Mark
I am trying to finish a second book on talent systems, and it's a little. It's a little more difficult than the first book. The first book is really just a story about starting the source. Kind of a fun story. Some of the family stuff, and that you brought up at the beginning is in the book. But this this is really a challenge to us, to employers about how we look at talent.
00;26;34;06 - 00;26;53;02
Mark
And I think that what has fascinated me is we're always we're great at onboarding talent. Like, welcome to the team. Here's all these great things. When when it comes time for people to leave, whether it's us wanting people to leave or people coming in saying, hey, I'm out of here, right? Here's my two weeks notice. Thanks for everything.
00;26;53;02 - 00;27;21;22
Mark
And I'm on to the next thing. We're really bad at that and helping to. So what I want to try to do is unpack this idea that we, each one of our enterprises, lives within us, a system of talent which is always in flow, and why we're trying to always fight that flow, as opposed to positively engage with that flow and create opportunities for people to leave our company.
00;27;21;25 - 00;27;36;21
Mark
That if I to say if there's any big idea in the book that's going to be really hard to get across is the idea that we actually help people find their next level of employment, which may be with us and it may be with somebody else, married all of us.
00;27;36;23 - 00;27;38;00
Jennifer
An event.
00;27;38;03 - 00;28;01;00
Mark
An open hand approach to talent. And it's it's very counterintuitive, especially when talent is hard to find in today's market. But again, it goes back to what's important to the people that are coming to work for us. And if we can build organizations where we can authentically do that, I don't think we can ignore what success looks like for the people that come to work for us.
00;28;01;00 - 00;28;01;21
Mark
Right?
00;28;01;23 - 00;28;24;20
Jennifer
Well, that's pretty cutting edge because many, many of us, including myself, you put so much into your teams and caring for them and treating them as a whole person and their family and whatnot, when they when they leave. It's hard. That's a hard thing for you personally, but it's just reach that and celebrate that and try and help people through that.
00;28;24;22 - 00;28;48;05
Jennifer
That that's pretty ingenious. That's pretty ingenious. You're going to have to keep us in the loop. And I know you're a good speaker. I know you said that you don't originally you didn't want to speak, and you were encouraged to do it. I've seen you speak. You're fantastic. And we're going to expect another little presentation. When that book is, when do you think that it's going to be done?
00;28;48;08 - 00;28;59;18
Mark
It's probably first quarter of next year is when we're going to we're going to actually try to go mainline publishing. So and I've never done that before. So I you know, I don't know I don't have a good answer.
00;28;59;20 - 00;29;23;10
Jennifer
That's great. Well you never know. I mean with social media you never know when the right person sees something. Boom. You know, when she happens. So let's talk a little bit about more philosophical things. We know that you already shared a lesson learned to focus on financial and culture at the same time, and cash flow and those types of things.
00;29;23;13 - 00;29;28;01
Jennifer
Is there anything else that you would do differently last year? Yeah, no.
00;29;28;02 - 00;29;47;13
Mark
I have two answers to that question. One is the list is too long. But you know, as I think about that, Jennifer, the reality is, you know, I don't have any regrets. I don't we all make decisions that don't turn out the way we thought they were. We we all do it. We do it in our personal lives.
00;29;47;13 - 00;30;07;13
Mark
We do it. Our business lives. We do it. As executive leaders in organizations. I think the real question is, regardless, I think we do a better we probably do a better job of this when things don't go the way we want them to than when they go exactly how we thought they would. But if what did we learn from those decisions?
00;30;07;17 - 00;30;29;04
Mark
You know, instead of having regrets and being like, I wish I hadn't done that, if I hadn't done that, this wouldn't have happened. Going back and saying, what did I miss? Who could I talk about? Who could I have talked to that might have seen that situation differently? You know, what are the learning questions that make us stronger in the future?
00;30;29;06 - 00;30;49;09
Mark
Because that decision didn't turn out the way we'd hoped it did. And I and I think because we've I think we've handled most of those kinds of things that, you know, what would I do differently and tried to learn from them. And I got this from a friend of mine years and years ago, and it was the result of a personal relationship that had gone badly.
00;30;49;09 - 00;31;11;07
Mark
And I was devastated. And, and he just looked at me and he goes, that sucks. What did you learn? I'm like, what do you mean, what did I learn? He goes, well, you can't do anything about it now. So what did you learn? What what what behavior mean? Yeah. What behaviors are you going to change in the future?
00;31;11;10 - 00;31;24;02
Mark
And I'm like, oh well that and it really sort of started a whole different way of thinking about those kinds of things for me across my life. So.
00;31;24;04 - 00;31;45;06
Jennifer
Well, let me, let me, let me ask it this way then, if there was a 35 year old first time CEO sitting in front of you and they have a business to run, right, what advice would you give that young person in the very first part of their career?
00;31;45;08 - 00;32;11;25
Mark
Right. That's a great question. And I love that question because I actually just had a conversation in the last couple of days with somebody just almost that exact situation. And and while for me it was 30 but 30, 35, you know, you you find yourself in a situation and you have the, the energy and the bandwidth to do a lot of things.
00;32;11;25 - 00;32;33;20
Mark
And so you start initiating a lot of change and you're managing all of that change. And you and you can see it clearly in your head the way you want to go. And you're convinced you can get there. I think the there I'd give you a few pieces of advice. One would be, are your actions in line with with who you are?
00;32;33;22 - 00;32;55;23
Mark
You know, I mean, there's that are what became alignment for us was around our mission statement and our guiding principles. But the other is of all the things you're trying to change, which ones are really urgent that need to be done, and which ones could you pause a little while so that you have bandwidth to change the urgent things and do it?
00;32;55;23 - 00;32;56;20
Mark
Well?
00;32;56;23 - 00;32;57;13
Jennifer
Yeah.
00;32;57;15 - 00;33;23;05
Mark
Because there are things that you can put in motion that you can't take back later. And the temptation is to just start changing everything you touch. And sometimes I think being able to filter what can be paused and, and just even though you desperately want to change it, say I was going to let that one. That's okay for now.
00;33;23;07 - 00;33;28;27
Mark
Yeah. Instead of changing ten things, I'm only going to change three, but I'm going to do them really effectively.
00;33;29;00 - 00;33;52;27
Jennifer
Yeah. And in all that change is scary for the team. And I think we forget that too. We see it as positive. Perhaps the team sees all that change at once as all know. So very good advice. And that's and most young C-suite leaders do just that. They have they feel they have to prove themselves. They feel like they have to move quickly and aggressively.
00;33;53;00 - 00;34;19;11
Jennifer
Sometimes you need to go slower to go faster. Very, very good advice. I think, Mark, I think I know you and I feel like I have a just for who you are and whatnot, but sometimes with the intelligence and with the role of CEO and all that you're doing, sometimes people look at the title rather than the person, right.
00;34;19;13 - 00;34;37;06
Jennifer
I'm sure you've experienced a few of those situations where people are nervous around your what have you. So one of the things we like to do with, with our with our lives is to demystify and just talk to you as a human. So let's talk about this. Besides butter, what are some of your favorite foods?
00;34;37;06 - 00;34;58;15
Mark
So steak I've always said if my doctor ever tells me you got to quit eating steak because you got, you know, a heart problem, I'm going to eat steak every day from that point on because I want it to be my last meal. But of course, it's got to be finished with a nice culinary butter, and it's got to have a great piece of bread that's also finished with some good butter and a good glass of wine to go with it.
00;34;58;15 - 00;35;03;07
Jennifer
So you you throw the butter in there. I just knew it and I didn't.
00;35;03;09 - 00;35;05;12
Mark
Have to, you know that, right? I mean.
00;35;05;14 - 00;35;12;07
Jennifer
I do know any, any hobbies or what do you do for fun?
00;35;12;09 - 00;35;31;00
Mark
You know, anything on in or near the water? I, I, I did a little three week, I don't know, whatever. I, I took off and lived in Salt Lake City for three weeks and Salt Lake City was very dry while I was there. And I it really hit me that I'm, I'm a water guy. I need to be near the water.
00;35;31;00 - 00;35;40;25
Mark
I need to be on the water. I love boating, I like swimming, scuba diving, water skiing. So water's kind of my go to.
00;35;40;28 - 00;35;45;02
Jennifer
That's me friends there. I used to water ski.
00;35;45;05 - 00;35;51;05
Mark
I like to water ski. I haven't done any of this summer, unfortunately, but I still do a water ski. Yep.
00;35;51;07 - 00;35;59;21
Jennifer
You're capable. That's enough. That's bad. What about any daily rituals when you wake up or when you go to bed? What are what are some of your rituals?
00;35;59;28 - 00;36;30;12
Mark
Yeah. You know, I, I this is an interesting question because my, my father was extremely ritualistic. I mean, every day you could chart his day out, and I really am. I'm almost the exact opposite. I have one or only one ritual that I can claim, and that is every morning I get up and I make coffee, and I sit in my hot tub for 15 to 30 minutes, and that is legitimately my only ritual.
00;36;30;14 - 00;36;45;14
Jennifer
You know, they say that's very healthy for you. The steam and the sweat is supposed to is for longevity. So maybe that'll balance out the steak. Eating with us and steam up from the sauna. Well, it's not a sauna, but what is it? It's a.
00;36;45;16 - 00;36;58;02
Mark
It's a hot tub. It's just a and it's, you know, it's great. It's in a in a winter, I get to be outside in the snow and and, you know, in summer, I turn the heat down. So it's not quite as hot, but.
00;36;58;04 - 00;37;08;20
Jennifer
Yeah. Well that's great. That sounds like so much fun. How do you manage your stress? Like when there is a really rough day? How do you know that?
00;37;08;23 - 00;37;35;06
Mark
So that's also that time in the morning. So for me it's for me. And I think this is maybe part of the power of being an introvert. It's it's visualization. So if I run into situations that are not maybe going the way I want or I'm having a hard time communicating with somebody, I need to communicate with, I will literally sit there with my coffee and I will think, how do I want this to go?
00;37;35;08 - 00;37;53;07
Mark
And I will run like, okay, if I say this, they're likely to say that that's not going to I mean, I legitimately do that kind of thing in my head to try to find the best outcome possible in those situations. I don't I don't like this vague. And what's that?
00;37;53;10 - 00;37;57;27
Jennifer
You're like a human computer with all the what? It charts flat floating up in the air, you know?
00;37;57;29 - 00;38;17;08
Mark
But what's interesting is I usually find a pathway I mean, usually and it and again it's a pathway that that aligns with what I call my, my like the person I want to be. Like, there's all this stuff that I want to do because I'm stressed or I'm frustrated and I want to like, I want to make this happen.
00;38;17;10 - 00;38;34;10
Mark
But then there's the the better paths that maybe don't, you know, don't feel as emotionally fulfilling and moment. But, you know, it's a better pathway. And those are kinds of things that I try to discover to chart out of those stressful situations.
00;38;34;12 - 00;38;47;00
Jennifer
Wonderful, wonderful. I, I don't think you get angry, but if you were to get angry for me thing, I don't I can't ever see you. I'm sure your family says differently, but.
00;38;47;02 - 00;38;48;19
Mark
If.
00;38;48;21 - 00;38;50;24
Jennifer
You're laughing.
00;38;50;26 - 00;38;57;23
Mark
Well, because you're Carrie from my office and I have a little saying, I'm nice. I'm not.
00;38;57;26 - 00;39;01;03
Jennifer
I'm okay. That was a lot.
00;39;01;06 - 00;39;19;29
Mark
You know, and I think this kind of goes back, and this is all stuff that Jennifer, that I've learned over the course of my life. I think it goes back to being an introvert and and tending to think through things. I think, and maybe it's not so much anger as it ends up just being frustration. I really dislike being angry or being like significantly triggered.
00;39;19;29 - 00;39;40;24
Mark
I try very hard to stay away from that kind of a situation, but I think when it's when when people around me say things or do things without thinking, it's kind of becomes the root cause of why I get frustrated. Like, did you really think that through? And and what did you hope to accomplish by, by doing that.
00;39;40;24 - 00;39;58;26
Mark
And, and and then sort of an unwillingness to be self-reflective, you know, I think when, when I run into people who don't want to take responsibility for their, their own, you know, behavior or their own thought process, that that really can be frustrating for me.
00;39;58;28 - 00;40;05;13
Jennifer
Well, sad. Well said it. And I think that irritates a lot of people, not just you.
00;40;05;18 - 00;40;18;23
Mark
Well yeah, it's the defining question there is what am I doing to contribute to this, the breakdown in this relationship too, right. Because we all always have our own culpability. And that's the harder question sometimes.
00;40;18;26 - 00;40;25;19
Jennifer
Yeah. Lesser. And then a positive note here, Mark, what makes you happy.
00;40;25;21 - 00;40;50;06
Mark
Yeah. Yeah I'm generally pretty happy person. So there's a lot of things that made me happy. But if I have to like boil it down to a theme, I would say it's being with people and in places that bring me joy, being and being present without not just like being there and and doing my texting, but being there in like even like this by zoom or somewhat separated.
00;40;50;06 - 00;40;58;05
Mark
I would love to be doing this in person, because there's a whole nother dynamic of presence that can occur in person, right?
00;40;58;07 - 00;41;00;28
Jennifer
She does here does.
00;41;01;00 - 00;41;11;29
Mark
And that's and that's what brings me joy, being in being present in those moments with people and and enjoying places that that bring me that kind of joy.
00;41;12;01 - 00;41;36;09
Jennifer
Well, you proven again, I already knew this, but you proven again what a fantastic leader you are in, how you mentor and lead and help others throughout your path as part of your mission, as who you are. And, we're just so proud to know you, your organization, all the positive work that you do in the community, which we didn't even talk about today.
00;41;36;11 - 00;41;52;09
Jennifer
We're looking forward to the next book. So keep me in the loop on that. We I and tell you right now, you got to speak to it. Next time I interact with you will figure that out. But for your time today, we value and appreciate you. And thank you so much.
00;41;52;11 - 00;41;54;23
Mark
Jennifer. Thank you. I've enjoyed being here today.