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Rupert Isaacson: Thanks for joining us.

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Welcome to Live Free, Ride Free.

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I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson, New
York Times bestselling author of

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The Horseboy and The Long Ride Home.

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Before I jump in with today's guest, I
want to say a huge thank you to you, our

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audience, for helping to make this happen.

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If you like what we do here,
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To find out about our certification
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books, and other courses,
please go to rupertisaacson.com.

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So now let's jump in.

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Welcome back.

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I've got Laura Chesterfield.

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Laura Chesterfield knows about
a sense of place she knows about

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story and how to connect with story.

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And why she is so

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tied up with bound up with this
idea of place and home is because

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she has spent the last 10 years
working for and subsequently running

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the Lost Gardens of Halligan.

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And for those of you who know what
they are, you'll go, ah, immediately.

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Anyone who's ever been there goes at
the, at the name alone because it's

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a little piece of heaven on Earth.

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And those that don't know it and
that discover it, it's one of

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those epiphanies it's it Cornwall.

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Southwest of England.

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I'm gonna let Laura tell us about it and
how this became really a family home and

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what is important about carrying a sense
of place or curating a sense of place

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also for others nature and the mind comes
into this, horses come into this family.

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Let's let Laura kick this off.

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Thanks for coming on, Laura.

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Laura Chesterfield: Pleasure.

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Lovely to see you.

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I hope.

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Rupert Isaacson: Tell us, tell
us about your, your interesting,

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amazing family and this halligan
malarkey and how it all came to be.

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Laura Chesterfield: Halligan malarkey.

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Gosh, it is such, it's such a long story.

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I'm gonna try and not cut it short,
but sort of, condense it, I suppose,

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because there's such a long a long
history of hell ligan and a long

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history for my family and, and then
a different history for myself.

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But the Los Gardens are halligan as
you've as you've introduced is it's

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just a, a stunning garden in, in
Cornwall down on the coast of Mei, which

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is a sea south fishing harbor town.

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And it, it basically fell asleep.

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It was lost.

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After the war, the gardeners went off to
war and they didn't return, and it fell

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asleep exactly as it was, you know, and,
and when it was first come across and

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rediscovered, if that's the right word the
tools were all still exactly where they

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were left, you know, and, and the gardens
were just completely overgrown and.

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There was a real feeling of, gosh, yeah.

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What happened in that moment?

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What, what, where, where did what
was going on before that moment?

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And real intrigue, a real sense of loss, a
real sense of it having been an important

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place for people and very much alive.

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And then suddenly that being
concealed and, and, and ready

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for people to bring back to life.

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And so my father was part of the, the
small group of people who sort of happened

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to come across it with the landowner who
had just inherited it from the TMA estate.

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And he didn't really know what he
was I inheriting and he, he, to

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meet my dad one day because my dad
was actually looking for land to

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turn into a rare breed farm park.

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And he, he, we were obsessed with pigs.

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We moved from London to Cornwall.

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Our family were obsessed with
pigs and rare breed animals.

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And my dad suddenly said, hurrah,
let's open a rare breed farm and, and,

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and get everybody wild about animals.

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And, and met John Willis who'd
inherited this land, who then happened

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to say, oh, I've inherited a space.

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Would you like to come and have a look?

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I don't think it's suitable as a
rare breeze, farm park, but you know,

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really exciting to go and have a look.

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And really the rest is history.

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They went, they came across underneath.

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You know, my memory as a child
is of these brambles being, you

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know, 10 foot high, you know, and
it being just a sort of jungle of

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possible adventure and curiosity and.

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And they, they went into the gardens and
started sort of uncovering the buildings,

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the working buildings, and came across one
particular room that's called the Thunder

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Box room, which you can imagine what
went on in there, the toilet and on the

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wall of the thunder box room, they came
across the signatures and dates of the

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gardeners and they'd signed on that wall
the day before they went off to, to, to

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fight in the world in the First World War.

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And it was such a moving.

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Thing for, for that group of, of people
to come across to realize that, you

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know, that story of the gardens had
sort of ended or gone to sleep at such a

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prominent historical moment that carries
so much pain and history and, and all

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sorts of things was just so moving.

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And so the gardens were then restored
in the name of those loft gardeners and

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always have been, and still now, you know,
35 years later, those gardens very much

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the, the respect for the gardeners that
were there before, their skills, their

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dedication, their expertise in, in their
gardening and their food production and,

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and their knowledge actually of just the
natural world and science and our place

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in the natural world and, and how we fit
as humans amongst it inspires to this

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day kind of what goes on at Halligan.

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So it is got a real sense of.

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People at the heart of it and working
people, you know, not the people that

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were in the big house, but actually
working gardeners that really had those

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skills and dirt under their fingernails.

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And, and, and so the restoration began,
you know, it was like a bunch of kids,

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even though they were adults, everyone
felt like they'd stepped into the pages

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of the secret garden, you know, and you
know, what's around this next wall and

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what's the, through this next door and
what are we gonna all find together?

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And it was very much, you know, a group of
people doing that together on this curious

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adventure and learning as they went.

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And that was 35 years ago.

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And so for me, I grew up as.

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It tells you my age now, doesn't it?

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But a sort of 6, 7, 8, 8, 9-year-old
going every single day in the family

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of Volvo up to this, you know, this
piece of land covered in brambles and

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watching yet another fire get started
and another building get uncovered.

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And not quite understanding really
the scale of what I was involved in

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or what I was seeing, but just knowing
that it was just really exciting,

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you know, and, and felt important
and it brought people together.

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And, and I think that's the thing
that has stayed with me the whole

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time, is that it's about what
people can actually do together.

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When it's about something important
and, and, and something fun.

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You know, going on an adventure,
it's, you know, the ultimate.

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Thing you wanna do as a kid, isn't it?

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And seeing adults still doing
that was really infectious.

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So, so I've been there
since I was a small kid.

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And you know, my, my mom and my dad
then ran the business alongside other

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people and it opened up to the public.

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I mean, the public came in
before it was even open.

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It really captured the hearts of a nation,
you know, just sort of seeing this amazing

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place and hearing the stories and, and
seeing normal people fall in love with

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it and want to uncover it, you know?

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And so I've watched that and,
and it's become a place that.

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My family have been, and it's been
like a, a sixth member of my family.

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And so I've had really
personal moments there.

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You know, I, I've spent years just kind
of going up at seasonal moments, going

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for walks with family, going with people
who are no longer alive, grandparents,

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friends but also getting married there
to my husband and, you know, so really.

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Touching moments where it sort of feels
like a, a home from home if you like.

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You know, if I was religious, that
would be my church kind of thing.

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You know, that sort of connection
that you get something really

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meaningful and spiritual from it.

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And for me, for many
years it was exactly that.

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And then a turning point in my career,
which historically had been studying

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horses, studying land management had also
been counseling and therapeutic practices

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and working within police stations.

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So, so really nothing to do
with horticulture whatsoever.

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At a real sort of transitional moment
in my life when I had children, it

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was the right moment to come and
learn about the family business and

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to come and take on a, a project which
was all about animals at that point.

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And it was starting the bury farm park.

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And so I joined the family
business nearly 10 years ago.

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And in my favorite job I've ever had,
which was the livestock coordinator

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looking after the animals, starting a
berries farm park and, and really kind

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of adding another layer of how people
engaged with the space at Halligan through

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animals and animals place in nature.

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I suppose I'm

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Rupert Isaacson: rambling

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Laura Chesterfield: bit
Ruth, but you need to mention

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Rupert Isaacson: now a lot, a lot of
Brits are quite familiar with Halligan

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because there was a TV show, there was
the book, your dad's book about, you

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know, finding that door in the war and
opening out into it is exactly as you say.

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You basically had the secret
garden as your childhood.

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You, you know, a lot of
us agreeing with envy.

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But the, the people who are
listening in from say the UUSA

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and other parts of the world.

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They don't know, you know, a garden.

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Okay.

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The gardens are nice.

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You know, there's a lot of big
country houses that have nice big

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gardens, and they're all lovely.

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They're all magical to some degree.

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I want you to talk us, you, you've touched
on the fact that the garden is actually

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not, the big house is still there, but
the garden as it stands, is the garden.

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Mm-hmm.

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But it's so much more than a garden.

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I want you to paint the picture for us.

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Take us on a ver, take us on a tour
through the Lost Gardens of Halligan, just

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so that those people who are not familiar
with it can really taste this magic.

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'cause this is, and, and, and
those people, by the way, who don't

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know Cornwall, Cornwall is one
of the magic places of the world.

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It's the Celtic Fringe.

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They have pixies.

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Living forest.

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There are, it's, it's, it's a place where
the veil between the supernatural and the

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na, you know, the natural is very thin.

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The Arthurian legends
are largely based there.

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You know, tin Taal Castle, working Arthur
is supposed to have been born Sary pool

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where Excalibur supposed to have come up.

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This is, this is the type of
landscape we're talking about and

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sort of these deep ravines with
old Celtic rainforest in them.

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And then these, you know,
smugglers, coves, you know,

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down on the, on, on the coast.

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The reason why everyone in pirate movies
speaks with an AR accent, because that

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is actually the accent of Cornwall,
which sticks out into the Atlantic there.

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Yeah.

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I'm

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Laura Chesterfield:
putting on a voice today.

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Yeah.

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So,

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Rupert Isaacson: so, so take us in
because there's a lot more I want

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to ask you, but, but guide us now.

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Okay.

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The listener has arrived at Halligan.

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Take us through.

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Laura Chesterfield: Okay.

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So you've really, this is
quite a task, isn't it?

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It

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Rupert Isaacson: is.

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Laura Chesterfield: To compete with
actually being present in the space.

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Just

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Rupert Isaacson: do it free flow.

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Laura Chesterfield: Free flow.

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So I mean, I think with Halligan it's.

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You are absolutely right.

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There's, there's hundreds of gardens
and they're all beautiful and, and

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I think what is really special at
Halligan, there's a number of things,

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but we're not the best at anything.

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But we have so many ingredients.

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The variety is like where this, this
very special place on earth where you

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have woodlands, you have meadows, you
have water, you have walled productive

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gardens, you have a jungle, you have
all these different ingredients.

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You have an Italian garden, you have
a flower garden, you have a scented

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garden, you have Rockies, you have
farmland, and actually all these

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different habitats in one place.

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And all these different, also
incredible plantings, you know,

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the great plant hunters bringing
back some incredible species is.

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It's just the diversity of it
feels joyful and optimistic.

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I think that's how it feels for me.

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Mm-hmm.

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Is to be able to see all those things
at once rather than some locations

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you might go to and they, they do one
thing brilliantly or, or they have

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two different 'cause sort of habitats.

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Having all of it in one place
is really, really special.

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And I think also with GaN, we are not a
museum, so I've already talked a little

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bit about the history of the place.

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So some people might be thinking,
oh, you know, it's another sort

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of historical place and it's not.

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It's, it's alive.

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It is absolutely alive.

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We are a working estate, so we have
all of the, the, the livestock there.

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They are, they are managing the land.

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They have a job.

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There's no field ornaments.

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They are absolutely managing our landscape
and they're doing that regeneratively and

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they're doing that in harmony with nature.

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We, you know, we have
productive wall gardens growing.

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Every month of the year.

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Food that is then given, you know, fed to
our visitors in our kitchen and actually

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showing those skills of 3, 6, 5 growing,
especially in the seasons that we get in

00:14:01.969 --> 00:14:04.309
Cornwall, which my God is a challenge.

00:14:04.309 --> 00:14:07.279
I mean, these, the gardeners
we have are magicians.

00:14:07.309 --> 00:14:08.509
I mean, I call it magic.

00:14:08.509 --> 00:14:14.449
To actually know those skills of how to
work with nature, how to work with the

00:14:14.449 --> 00:14:20.239
science of nature as well as kind of, you
know, everything nature froze us is magic.

00:14:20.299 --> 00:14:24.739
And it is a dying knowledge set
actually that we have today.

00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:28.279
And I think part of the magic for
people coming around is seeing that

00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:32.359
that still exists, that it's still
cherished, it's still put on a pedestal.

00:14:32.359 --> 00:14:36.679
It's still something that we champion
really actively, that we should

00:14:36.679 --> 00:14:38.299
all know where our food comes from.

00:14:38.299 --> 00:14:41.729
We should all care about where our food
comes from, and we should all, and.

00:14:42.034 --> 00:14:45.664
Have some knowledge that it's not
just delivered on a shelf in Tesco's,

00:14:46.234 --> 00:14:51.214
you know, and, and actually to come
and be on a working estate and seeing

00:14:51.214 --> 00:14:54.244
it happening around you, we don't,
you know, they don't change what

00:14:54.244 --> 00:14:55.414
we do every day for the visitor.

00:14:55.414 --> 00:14:58.024
The visitor has to kind of, sometimes,
you know, where are the cows?

00:14:58.024 --> 00:15:00.574
Well, a grazing over there, you're
gonna have to walk further to see them.

00:15:00.814 --> 00:15:03.454
They're not put on show just
for the people coming to visit.

00:15:03.934 --> 00:15:07.414
And I think it's the magic of seeing.

00:15:07.819 --> 00:15:13.189
A space that is alive actively with so
many different habitats is very magical.

00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:17.089
But it's also, it is not just the
beauty of it, it is the, you know,

00:15:17.089 --> 00:15:20.359
we've talked a little bit about the
loss and the landscape, but actually

00:15:20.359 --> 00:15:26.269
having these layers on the space people,
people feel it and they talk about hell

00:15:26.509 --> 00:15:28.189
being a healing place all the time.

00:15:28.189 --> 00:15:31.789
And it's actually an anagram of the
word healing, which we've always

00:15:31.789 --> 00:15:38.509
sort of felt very apt because so many
people come to halligan experiencing

00:15:38.509 --> 00:15:43.129
loss, experiencing pain, experiencing
bereavement and difficulty.

00:15:43.129 --> 00:15:48.949
And there is just a real feeling of the
place having a history behind it of.

00:15:49.709 --> 00:15:55.979
Sharedness, I guess, you know, of
humanness and being a space that is open

00:15:55.979 --> 00:16:01.199
for people to feel and be in whatever
emotional state they want to be in.

00:16:01.619 --> 00:16:06.479
So the landscape is really healing
because we kind of celebrate the

00:16:06.479 --> 00:16:09.329
fact that it's, you know, there's
loss, there's abandonment, but

00:16:09.329 --> 00:16:13.889
there's restoration, there's human
hands, and this huge sense of time.

00:16:14.219 --> 00:16:17.639
You know, when, when I walk around
and look at some of my favorite trees,

00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:20.879
which I've actually walked with you,
you'll remember some of those oak trees,

00:16:21.779 --> 00:16:23.579
you know, maybe nearly 200 years old.

00:16:23.579 --> 00:16:28.139
And the stories they've seen, the things
they've seen, they give you a real sense

00:16:28.139 --> 00:16:34.139
of place and time and, and that, and
that just connects you, you know, it

00:16:34.139 --> 00:16:37.319
just connects you in a different way
to walking around a, a more kind of

00:16:37.649 --> 00:16:42.329
perhaps formal garden that's sort of
very structured for the visitor, perhaps.

00:16:42.419 --> 00:16:42.479
Yeah.

00:16:43.049 --> 00:16:46.049
And so you'll walk around and
you'll, you'll, I think also at

00:16:46.049 --> 00:16:48.449
Elegant, what's special is that you
can kind of lose yourself in the

00:16:48.449 --> 00:16:50.219
place in whichever way you want to.

00:16:50.219 --> 00:16:53.249
So we of course get some visitors
that they want a map and they

00:16:53.249 --> 00:16:55.979
want a prescription, and they
wanna know where to go and how

00:16:55.979 --> 00:16:57.749
to feel and how this is gonna be.

00:16:58.119 --> 00:17:00.219
But for us, we're like,
go and lose yourself.

00:17:00.219 --> 00:17:01.989
Go and switch off from the outside world.

00:17:01.989 --> 00:17:05.290
Go and just find your experience.

00:17:05.290 --> 00:17:05.589
You know?

00:17:05.589 --> 00:17:09.069
And there's certain parts of that
that are absolutely curated, but in

00:17:09.069 --> 00:17:12.609
a way for people to experience it in,
in the way that they need on that,

00:17:12.670 --> 00:17:15.400
on any given day, whether they're
in a large group or on their own.

00:17:16.029 --> 00:17:18.310
Rupert Isaacson: I think, I think
there is a story that needs to be

00:17:18.310 --> 00:17:21.219
told, which is sort of how this is,
well, you, you mentioned the jungle.

00:17:21.219 --> 00:17:21.279
Yeah.

00:17:21.610 --> 00:17:23.980
And you mentioned the, the plant hunters.

00:17:24.159 --> 00:17:26.409
And you mentioned that feeling
of being lost and timeless.

00:17:26.650 --> 00:17:29.620
So Cornwall has this microclimate within.

00:17:30.294 --> 00:17:34.014
The UK and the Northern hemisphere
where you can grow some sub tropicals

00:17:34.105 --> 00:17:39.504
and tell us about the Tremaine family
and the plant hunters and how they got

00:17:39.504 --> 00:17:41.574
going with this and created that jungle.

00:17:41.784 --> 00:17:43.705
And then take us through that jungle.

00:17:43.794 --> 00:17:46.344
'cause I feel that that jungle
is, that is sort of, to me,

00:17:46.344 --> 00:17:47.605
the wild heart of Allergan.

00:17:48.115 --> 00:17:48.835
Do you know what I mean?

00:17:48.835 --> 00:17:52.865
There's something, it's like you go
in there and you rewild you reset.

00:17:52.985 --> 00:17:54.815
So, so tell us about the Tremaine family.

00:17:54.815 --> 00:17:57.695
How did they get, why did
they create this jungle?

00:17:57.695 --> 00:17:58.805
What were the plant hunters?

00:17:58.805 --> 00:18:00.785
And then bring us up to the present day.

00:18:01.445 --> 00:18:01.865
Laura Chesterfield: Okay.

00:18:01.865 --> 00:18:06.365
So, I mean, I'm gonna start by saying I am
not a horticulturalist and I'm not gonna

00:18:06.365 --> 00:18:12.155
pretend to be as incredible as, as some of
our horticultural team or our historians

00:18:12.205 --> 00:18:13.675
in terms of how I tell the stories.

00:18:13.675 --> 00:18:18.985
But I think what's I think the space,
as you say, is really wild because

00:18:18.985 --> 00:18:23.245
to actually have a, a jungle you can
go to that's not a, a captive jungle.

00:18:23.245 --> 00:18:26.810
It's not it, it is
really wildly cared for.

00:18:26.810 --> 00:18:28.130
It does its own thing.

00:18:28.190 --> 00:18:31.520
And, and being in the climate
that we're in, that's so unusual.

00:18:31.520 --> 00:18:34.130
You know, normally you'd need
to be flying to a different

00:18:34.130 --> 00:18:35.690
continent to experience that.

00:18:36.190 --> 00:18:41.740
And it's, you do step back in time
because you are transported to a place

00:18:41.800 --> 00:18:49.480
where nature is being natural, you know,
and it's doing its thing naturally.

00:18:49.870 --> 00:18:54.610
And it's, you're seeing growth,
but you're seeing decay.

00:18:54.910 --> 00:18:55.660
You're seeing.

00:18:56.260 --> 00:19:00.220
All of the seasons and how they
kind of work together and, and, and

00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:03.880
that in itself, it just transports
you from wherever else you are.

00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:06.850
'cause you can't hear any,
anything from the modern day.

00:19:06.850 --> 00:19:12.040
So you could be transported back
to the 1920s and you wouldn't know

00:19:12.370 --> 00:19:16.930
because it's just so peaceful and.

00:19:17.005 --> 00:19:21.535
And that's really rare
actually to have that and to be

00:19:21.535 --> 00:19:23.185
completely immersed by plants.

00:19:23.185 --> 00:19:27.055
Also quite rare, you know, there
has been so much deforestation and

00:19:27.055 --> 00:19:31.855
so much kind of controlling nature
across, certainly across the uk.

00:19:32.185 --> 00:19:35.545
That to go somewhere that you are
absolutely immersed with Gunnar

00:19:35.545 --> 00:19:40.135
leaves that are, you know, 10 foot
high and tree ferns that are historic

00:19:40.135 --> 00:19:46.075
and ancient is a really unusual
thing for the senses to be around.

00:19:46.585 --> 00:19:49.915
That just really does something for
people, which is why it's probably

00:19:49.915 --> 00:19:53.065
the number one thing people come to
Halligan to see, actually, because

00:19:53.515 --> 00:19:55.555
they, they feel a sense of adventure.

00:19:55.585 --> 00:19:58.345
'cause people wanna come to
places like us for fun, you know?

00:19:58.345 --> 00:19:58.405
Yeah.

00:19:58.915 --> 00:19:59.455
Experience.

00:19:59.455 --> 00:20:00.775
They might not get somewhere else.

00:20:01.255 --> 00:20:04.255
And then, yes, on the other hand, it is
also about people that are, you know,

00:20:04.255 --> 00:20:07.465
really interested in the horticulture
and the history of the plants and,

00:20:07.465 --> 00:20:11.665
and those, those adventurers if you
like, you know, from way back when they

00:20:11.665 --> 00:20:13.945
would go to other continents and bring

00:20:13.950 --> 00:20:15.235
Rupert Isaacson: who, who
were these adventurers?

00:20:15.235 --> 00:20:17.000
Who were the tain, you know?

00:20:17.590 --> 00:20:17.880
Yeah,

00:20:18.230 --> 00:20:18.520
Laura Chesterfield: yeah.

00:20:18.520 --> 00:20:22.405
So I mean the, the Tain family,
Jack Tain, I mean, there was many

00:20:22.405 --> 00:20:27.205
generations that sort of built and
created different parts of the gardens.

00:20:27.655 --> 00:20:28.225
They.

00:20:28.635 --> 00:20:32.295
You know, they were of a generation
where it absolutely was about showing

00:20:32.295 --> 00:20:35.935
off some wealth and you know, having
a garden with all these different

00:20:35.935 --> 00:20:37.075
plants and it bought from, this is

00:20:37.075 --> 00:20:39.115
Rupert Isaacson: sort of back in
the early 19th century, right?

00:20:39.115 --> 00:20:39.175
Yeah.

00:20:39.175 --> 00:20:40.885
Late 18th, early 19th century.

00:20:41.065 --> 00:20:41.395
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

00:20:41.395 --> 00:20:44.815
So there's definitely
showing off involved.

00:20:45.135 --> 00:20:46.395
You know, look what I've got.

00:20:46.395 --> 00:20:47.565
Look what I've brought back.

00:20:47.565 --> 00:20:50.985
Look at all of these specimens that we
brought back, and there's a lot of, you

00:20:50.985 --> 00:20:52.605
know, there's a lot of historical parts,

00:20:52.665 --> 00:20:53.865
Rupert Isaacson: but they
were colonialists, right.

00:20:53.865 --> 00:20:58.215
And empire builders, and they went
out to these exotic places and brought

00:20:58.215 --> 00:21:00.375
back these, these plants, right?

00:21:00.375 --> 00:21:03.135
But that, that, that was as you,
as you say, I mean, it wasn't

00:21:03.135 --> 00:21:05.085
just a trophy thing though.

00:21:05.115 --> 00:21:10.305
I mean the, these were clearly
people who had a real feel for

00:21:13.485 --> 00:21:15.165
nature in a certain way.

00:21:15.180 --> 00:21:15.470
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

00:21:15.860 --> 00:21:15.950
Right.

00:21:17.360 --> 00:21:17.750
Yeah.

00:21:17.750 --> 00:21:21.660
I think, you know, today isn't about
going down the, the political side of

00:21:21.970 --> 00:21:26.230
you know, of, of what was happening at
that time and, and, and in those days.

00:21:26.230 --> 00:21:32.290
But they certainly were in tune with
nature of, of recreation attached to

00:21:32.290 --> 00:21:33.545
nature, you know, and that actually.

00:21:34.395 --> 00:21:35.925
Their enjoyment in a day.

00:21:35.925 --> 00:21:40.155
What they would do for fun would be to
immerse themselves in these spaces, to

00:21:40.155 --> 00:21:43.995
take friends, guests into these spaces.

00:21:44.055 --> 00:21:47.325
You know, they would have ornamental
dwelling gardens that they built

00:21:47.595 --> 00:21:49.935
for for spending time in, you know?

00:21:49.935 --> 00:21:49.945
Yeah.

00:21:49.945 --> 00:21:51.555
And how built these gardens.

00:21:51.555 --> 00:21:55.005
There was definitely obviously the
operational parts that were about

00:21:55.005 --> 00:22:01.365
providing food, but there was definitely
these, the recreation, the beauty, the

00:22:01.365 --> 00:22:06.675
being amongst nature, which they very
much understood and did at scale, you

00:22:06.675 --> 00:22:10.905
know, and, and did in a way that was
to bring species back that many other

00:22:10.905 --> 00:22:13.005
areas maybe wouldn't have bought back.

00:22:13.335 --> 00:22:16.065
But that also our habitat being
so close to the sea, you know,

00:22:16.065 --> 00:22:17.055
that, that some of those water,

00:22:17.055 --> 00:22:17.415
Rupert Isaacson: right.

00:22:17.475 --> 00:22:21.495
And it's, it's quite rare to see,
I mean, you go to a place like Q

00:22:21.495 --> 00:22:26.205
Gardens, like a proper jog, botanical
garden, and it's always awe inspiring.

00:22:26.685 --> 00:22:26.835
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

00:22:26.885 --> 00:22:29.825
Rupert Isaacson: But as you say,
when these guys brought back.

00:22:30.375 --> 00:22:38.025
These giant tree ferns, these, they
then let them create a jungle similar

00:22:38.025 --> 00:22:41.325
to the jungle that they went to, to
go and get these things that I think

00:22:41.325 --> 00:22:44.595
was almost unheard of at that time.

00:22:44.625 --> 00:22:48.405
Normally people formalized it, you
know, you'd say, here is the tree

00:22:48.405 --> 00:22:49.965
fern, you know, here is the thing.

00:22:50.365 --> 00:22:54.355
But to, to plant them in the
way that down, that the ravine.

00:22:54.355 --> 00:22:59.815
So for, for listeners and viewers,
you've got to imagine that you enter

00:22:59.815 --> 00:23:05.755
this ravine and it's suddenly like
you're in South America or New Zealand

00:23:05.875 --> 00:23:09.925
or these giant galleries of tree phones.

00:23:10.375 --> 00:23:10.555
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

00:23:10.585 --> 00:23:17.185
Rupert Isaacson: That absorb sound, and
I think that's one of the things that

00:23:18.115 --> 00:23:19.645
creates that feeling of timelessness.

00:23:20.035 --> 00:23:20.455
Yeah.

00:23:20.725 --> 00:23:21.085
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

00:23:21.235 --> 00:23:22.015
Absolutely.

00:23:23.335 --> 00:23:27.145
Rupert Isaacson: What was it about these
people, do you think that made them

00:23:27.145 --> 00:23:28.705
so unusual that they would kind of.

00:23:29.770 --> 00:23:33.205
Create a rewild place like
that, not a formalized place.

00:23:33.205 --> 00:23:34.795
It's, it, it's unusual.

00:23:36.025 --> 00:23:36.595
Laura Chesterfield: It is.

00:23:36.655 --> 00:23:37.735
It is unusual.

00:23:37.765 --> 00:23:38.575
It is unusual.

00:23:38.575 --> 00:23:42.265
And I mean, there's probably many reasons
for it, but I think it was like a hobby.

00:23:42.385 --> 00:23:46.645
It, it was the, the going on the
adventures, the bringing the prize

00:23:46.645 --> 00:23:50.125
back, the seeing, you know, and,
and obviously enjoying being in

00:23:50.125 --> 00:23:55.225
nature and feeling the good of that,
which has been lost since then.

00:23:55.225 --> 00:23:59.425
A little bit, you know, in, in more modern
generations, as we know, people are,

00:23:59.560 --> 00:24:03.505
are losing that connection to nature,
then people are not as aware of it.

00:24:03.895 --> 00:24:06.805
And actually I think
that they were, you know?

00:24:06.810 --> 00:24:07.020
Mm-hmm.

00:24:07.435 --> 00:24:11.605
And there wasn't all the modern
day things that we have right now,

00:24:11.605 --> 00:24:15.055
you know, that get in the way of
that it nature was very present and

00:24:15.055 --> 00:24:16.765
people were very dependent upon it.

00:24:17.245 --> 00:24:17.605
Yeah.

00:24:18.310 --> 00:24:21.880
And they had the money, they had
the wealth, they had the connections

00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:24.670
to enable that and, and a very
special climate down in Cornwall.

00:24:24.670 --> 00:24:28.600
I mean, the Cornish Gardens are famous
and they are unique, not just Halligan,

00:24:28.600 --> 00:24:30.070
but other Cornish gardens as well.

00:24:30.070 --> 00:24:34.660
You know, the, the climate being so
close to the sea, you know, the gardens

00:24:34.660 --> 00:24:38.660
here are very different to what you
would see near a London or, or or

00:24:38.660 --> 00:24:44.300
further north in the uk because of the
specimens that do do well here for sure.

00:24:45.290 --> 00:24:45.560
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:24:45.560 --> 00:24:52.710
It's, it, it's also not just a, a
garden where you look at plants or

00:24:52.740 --> 00:24:57.340
woodland or these obviously these
giant cathedral like roded entrances

00:24:57.340 --> 00:25:00.160
that you can go climb around it.

00:25:00.340 --> 00:25:01.000
It is extraordinary.

00:25:01.150 --> 00:25:03.160
But there's also a lot of art.

00:25:03.610 --> 00:25:04.720
Tell us about.

00:25:05.140 --> 00:25:09.790
The art, the mud made the giant, this
stuff, you know, talk, talk us through.

00:25:09.790 --> 00:25:12.580
'cause it, it's a real place
of the imagination, I feel.

00:25:13.120 --> 00:25:14.620
Laura Chesterfield: Mm, yeah, definitely.

00:25:14.620 --> 00:25:15.010
Definitely.

00:25:15.010 --> 00:25:20.590
I mean, the sculptures, the sculptures
really capture people's imaginations.

00:25:20.740 --> 00:25:27.950
And we've worked on, we've just opened
the fourth sculpture by the same local

00:25:27.950 --> 00:25:34.010
Cornish artist, Sue and her brother Pete
Hill who created four very different

00:25:34.010 --> 00:25:41.390
sculptures at GaN that are all inspired by
different elements of folklore and nature.

00:25:41.800 --> 00:25:42.340
And.

00:25:42.910 --> 00:25:45.190
Playing, you know, very playful.

00:25:45.190 --> 00:25:49.360
And, and it's, it's a really
beautiful side of the space, you

00:25:49.360 --> 00:25:55.960
know, that encouragement to be silly
and to be creative and to allow

00:25:55.960 --> 00:25:59.800
those parts of yourself to come
to life and to be accessed and to

00:26:00.100 --> 00:26:01.960
tell stories and make things up.

00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:03.730
And I think the sculptures
do exactly that.

00:26:03.730 --> 00:26:07.420
They encourage families regularly
to sit there and talk about, you

00:26:07.420 --> 00:26:08.890
know, the Mud Maid in particular.

00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:10.150
You know, what,

00:26:10.150 --> 00:26:12.070
Rupert Isaacson: can you
describe the mud maid for us?

00:26:12.280 --> 00:26:12.700
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

00:26:12.705 --> 00:26:15.010
No, you mean she's such
an iconic sculpture.

00:26:15.010 --> 00:26:19.090
She's a sleeping maiden made from moss.

00:26:19.140 --> 00:26:24.000
And you find her in our, in
our woodland walks of lying on

00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:26.580
her side, peacefully asleep.

00:26:26.580 --> 00:26:32.970
She's dreaming and she's called the
mud made, and she's just magical.

00:26:32.970 --> 00:26:37.020
She's so beautifully created
that she's part of the landscape.

00:26:37.470 --> 00:26:38.670
So she really.

00:26:39.300 --> 00:26:40.590
Feels very natural.

00:26:40.590 --> 00:26:45.030
There's a real spirit about her, a real
energy of, you know, some people think

00:26:45.030 --> 00:26:46.890
of her as being like mother Nature.

00:26:47.130 --> 00:26:50.600
Some people, she's a character
of in a different way.

00:26:50.600 --> 00:26:52.010
That's about stories.

00:26:52.310 --> 00:26:55.100
Some people it's about nighttime
and what happens after dark.

00:26:55.780 --> 00:26:56.709
And she's.

00:26:57.879 --> 00:26:59.860
She just captures everyone's imagination.

00:26:59.860 --> 00:27:04.419
I mean, people go straight there and you
hear people of all generations telling

00:27:04.419 --> 00:27:07.629
each other their stories of what you
know, whether it's about what she's

00:27:07.629 --> 00:27:11.800
dreaming about or who she's friends
with at night when we all go home.

00:27:12.159 --> 00:27:14.350
You know, and it's, she just captures.

00:27:14.980 --> 00:27:16.270
The spirit of the place.

00:27:16.270 --> 00:27:20.970
I think that playful side and that
folklore side, which as you've touched

00:27:20.970 --> 00:27:23.250
on is, is ever present in different ways.

00:27:23.700 --> 00:27:27.639
So you have the mud made, you also
have the giant's head which was made

00:27:27.639 --> 00:27:31.060
out of the stump of a tree that fell
many years ago, back in the nineties.

00:27:31.450 --> 00:27:36.700
And it's this sort of giant peeping out of
the soil and it's just his head and face

00:27:37.150 --> 00:27:43.040
and all his grass is creating this really
funky hair doing big eyes and a huge nose.

00:27:43.040 --> 00:27:47.540
And in the years since he was born as
such, you know, he's got older and he is

00:27:47.540 --> 00:27:51.814
got more and more facial hair and more
and more facial crevices and is very

00:27:51.814 --> 00:27:54.455
much alive, you know, and part of nature.

00:27:54.455 --> 00:27:55.864
And I think that's again, what.

00:27:56.464 --> 00:28:00.394
What these sculptures kind of get
you to think about is people being

00:28:00.394 --> 00:28:03.874
part of nature, nature being part
of people, and actually that sort

00:28:03.874 --> 00:28:10.054
of yeah, working together and, and
not separate from one another is,

00:28:10.114 --> 00:28:11.764
is probably the deeper side of it.

00:28:12.164 --> 00:28:15.374
But you know, again, where does the
giant go after dark and who is he friends

00:28:15.374 --> 00:28:18.614
with and where are the other giants
and all that stuff that there's books

00:28:18.614 --> 00:28:22.274
and all sorts of things written about
these sculptures that, you know, kids.

00:28:22.834 --> 00:28:25.564
Know them as characters, as if
they're actually people, you

00:28:25.564 --> 00:28:30.694
know, and the GaN giant is a, is a
character and, and that's wonderful.

00:28:30.694 --> 00:28:34.984
You know, it's such a great way to
transport people to that, you know, that

00:28:34.984 --> 00:28:38.134
part of their minds to be creative and to.

00:28:38.594 --> 00:28:42.644
To wonder and to make things up
and to be silly and to have that

00:28:42.674 --> 00:28:44.984
imaginative play as they go.

00:28:45.614 --> 00:28:49.064
Then we've got a third sculpture,
which is the gray lady I

00:28:49.064 --> 00:28:50.234
Rupert Isaacson: was gonna
ask you about the gray lady.

00:28:50.384 --> 00:28:51.524
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah, we
like the gray lady, don't we?

00:28:51.524 --> 00:28:51.764
We've had,

00:28:54.074 --> 00:28:58.514
so there, I mean, again, it's folklore,
it's historical folklore and quite a

00:28:58.514 --> 00:29:03.734
little bit darker because there are lots
of stories of historically seeing this

00:29:03.734 --> 00:29:10.514
gray lady after dark at sunset, walking
the gardens and stories of her being the

00:29:10.514 --> 00:29:15.704
long lost lover of one of the gardens
of being someone who's been murdered.

00:29:15.704 --> 00:29:20.144
There's all sorts of folklore about who
she was, what she did, whether she's kind

00:29:20.144 --> 00:29:22.364
and lost in her spirit, or whether she's.

00:29:22.439 --> 00:29:26.629
A bit darker and a bit sort of,
spookier, I suppose it's probably

00:29:26.629 --> 00:29:28.369
the spookiest, bit of GaN.

00:29:28.769 --> 00:29:34.529
But again, it's that imaginative that
she represents people and history and

00:29:34.529 --> 00:29:38.639
stories and how stories evolve, you
know, and, and, and how, and what we tell

00:29:38.639 --> 00:29:42.924
ourselves over the years and how that,
you know, Chinese whispers if you like,

00:29:43.784 --> 00:29:46.604
of, of, of this, of, you know, just.

00:29:46.944 --> 00:29:48.864
Stories that have captured people.

00:29:49.134 --> 00:29:52.824
And I think that's, you know, again, so
important for what that then brings into

00:29:52.824 --> 00:29:55.824
your future and into the here and now
and what that brings into the future.

00:29:56.064 --> 00:30:00.144
You know, for younger people that now
hear this story is very powerful actually.

00:30:00.144 --> 00:30:02.664
To think that that woman that was
probably someone just wearing a gray

00:30:02.664 --> 00:30:08.064
dress, having a wonder one day, has
turned into this, you know, folk clawing

00:30:08.064 --> 00:30:13.584
Cornwall of, of, of scale, but has
captured imagination and actually doing

00:30:13.584 --> 00:30:17.394
that through a sculpture that half our
visitors can't actually see the sculpture.

00:30:17.394 --> 00:30:20.244
'cause it's sort of, it's made out of
metal, but it's sort of see through.

00:30:20.244 --> 00:30:23.334
So unless you catch it at the right
light, you're kind of looking straight

00:30:23.394 --> 00:30:24.924
through it at the trees behind.

00:30:24.924 --> 00:30:26.664
And some people stand,
they go, I can't see it.

00:30:26.664 --> 00:30:29.334
And it's, it's their sort
of hidden quite ghost.

00:30:29.334 --> 00:30:29.919
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, it's like a ghost.

00:30:29.989 --> 00:30:30.279
Yeah.

00:30:30.284 --> 00:30:30.474
Yeah.

00:30:31.164 --> 00:30:32.274
Laura Chesterfield: So, so clever.

00:30:32.274 --> 00:30:37.374
I mean, the artists are, again, wizards
are just, they're just incredible.

00:30:37.374 --> 00:30:42.084
And the most recent sculpture
that we commissioned from them

00:30:42.204 --> 00:30:45.474
opened in September last year.

00:30:46.199 --> 00:30:50.070
And we, you know, we realized how
successful the storytelling and

00:30:50.070 --> 00:30:53.010
the engagement had been at Halligan
through these sculptures and thought

00:30:53.370 --> 00:30:57.120
we really need to invite Sue and Pete
back to come and tell another story.

00:30:57.150 --> 00:31:01.320
You know, what is the story
that for us in 25 years time,

00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:03.060
my kids are gonna be telling.

00:31:03.409 --> 00:31:07.909
You know, that their friends and the kids
then about, you know, the next sculpture

00:31:07.909 --> 00:31:10.790
and you know, and I think that's the thing
with these projects is it's about legacy

00:31:10.790 --> 00:31:15.500
and it's about kind of that taking stories
forward that are important or meaningful

00:31:15.500 --> 00:31:17.690
or, you know, that connect us all.

00:31:17.750 --> 00:31:19.700
I mean, stories connect
everybody, the world over.

00:31:19.700 --> 00:31:20.060
Right?

00:31:20.060 --> 00:31:20.915
So it's, we

00:31:20.915 --> 00:31:21.875
Rupert Isaacson: are the storytelling act.

00:31:21.945 --> 00:31:22.235
Yeah.

00:31:22.305 --> 00:31:22.595
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

00:31:22.595 --> 00:31:27.409
That's so, so it's so important to have
those, those triggers within the space

00:31:27.409 --> 00:31:30.409
to tell stories and not, you know,
heli again, we don't wanna be somewhere

00:31:30.409 --> 00:31:31.970
that's just got hundreds of boards.

00:31:31.970 --> 00:31:34.790
You know, you people don't
feel something from a board.

00:31:36.649 --> 00:31:37.310
Rupert Isaacson: Board With the board.

00:31:37.310 --> 00:31:37.490
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

00:31:37.730 --> 00:31:38.034
Board with the board.

00:31:38.105 --> 00:31:39.620
It's, it's rare that they do.

00:31:39.830 --> 00:31:45.590
So trying to create other ways for people
to feel has been the way that I've curated

00:31:45.590 --> 00:31:47.360
and done the job of is to experience that.

00:31:47.389 --> 00:31:50.840
It is, it's always been about what's
the feeling that comes from that and

00:31:50.840 --> 00:31:52.639
from seeing this or hearing this or.

00:31:52.715 --> 00:31:55.385
Or being in a space,
what does it feel like?

00:31:55.385 --> 00:31:56.435
Because that's what people remember.

00:31:56.435 --> 00:31:57.784
You know, that's where memories come from.

00:31:57.784 --> 00:32:01.115
That's where a connection to a place
and an emotional connection to a

00:32:01.115 --> 00:32:02.615
place comes from is feeling something.

00:32:02.615 --> 00:32:08.975
So, so the, the newest sculpture
is a six meter high fox.

00:32:09.334 --> 00:32:15.274
She's a vixen, and her name is
LOEs, which is Cornish for vixen.

00:32:15.965 --> 00:32:20.254
And she's utterly spell binding.

00:32:20.325 --> 00:32:21.015
Spell binding.

00:32:21.015 --> 00:32:21.465
Spell.

00:32:21.465 --> 00:32:21.675
Is that, yeah.

00:32:22.450 --> 00:32:23.120
Rupert Isaacson: Spell binding.

00:32:23.120 --> 00:32:23.360
It's

00:32:23.360 --> 00:32:23.380
Laura Chesterfield: spell binding.

00:32:24.225 --> 00:32:25.155
Enchanting.

00:32:25.155 --> 00:32:25.905
I mean, she's,

00:32:25.910 --> 00:32:27.400
Rupert Isaacson: where
is she in the, in the is,

00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:29.385
Laura Chesterfield: she's on the
wooden walk, so she's further down

00:32:29.385 --> 00:32:31.035
from the other, the other sculpture.

00:32:31.035 --> 00:32:32.685
So it all flows really well.

00:32:33.195 --> 00:32:33.285
Mm-hmm.

00:32:33.525 --> 00:32:36.765
And I mean, there's a, there's a
few stories behind this sculpture.

00:32:36.765 --> 00:32:41.205
One was that we did an incredible project
last year, the last couple of years with.

00:32:41.815 --> 00:32:46.005
Poet Laureate, Simon Armitage
the most incredible poet.

00:32:46.005 --> 00:32:50.575
And, and he came and did a project with us
where I asked him if he'd write some poems

00:32:50.575 --> 00:32:55.715
about Halligan and and let us hide them
in the landscape for future generations.

00:32:55.715 --> 00:32:58.145
And, you know, there is
no one better than words.

00:32:58.145 --> 00:32:58.835
It's official.

00:32:58.835 --> 00:33:03.515
So it was just such an honor and
such a joy to, to be around him being

00:33:03.515 --> 00:33:05.585
creative and interpreting the space.

00:33:06.035 --> 00:33:10.145
And we, we left it quite free in
terms of a brief for him because.

00:33:10.580 --> 00:33:12.170
We just wanted him to do his thing.

00:33:12.410 --> 00:33:16.190
And actually letting people feel
the space and interpret it in

00:33:16.190 --> 00:33:17.570
their own way is really important.

00:33:17.570 --> 00:33:23.000
And so Simon came and spent, you know, two
days with our team and met all the team

00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:27.320
and went to all the different habitats
and, and went away and wrote poems and,

00:33:27.320 --> 00:33:28.670
you know, we didn't, we were nervous.

00:33:28.670 --> 00:33:31.130
Like, what's he gonna come back
and say, what's he gonna, what

00:33:31.130 --> 00:33:32.450
thing is he gonna pick up on?

00:33:32.450 --> 00:33:35.240
And, you know, is it, where,
where's this gonna go?

00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:36.920
It was, you know, really sort of exciting.

00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:41.180
And he, he wrote to me
and he, he said, Laura, I.

00:33:41.460 --> 00:33:49.180
I feel like it is a safe home for so many
creatures, for so many secret inhabitants

00:33:49.180 --> 00:33:53.590
within, you know, the wildlife world
that we don't see, but that actually

00:33:53.590 --> 00:33:58.270
halligan makes it a home, not just
for humans, but for so many species.

00:33:58.690 --> 00:34:02.110
And you know, that in itself, to have
that feedback that that's what someone

00:34:02.110 --> 00:34:07.629
gets from a place is amazing and really
moving that, that, that, that was kind

00:34:07.629 --> 00:34:12.609
of what he felt about the place was that
it was enabling life to live naturally.

00:34:12.609 --> 00:34:15.460
Rupert Isaacson: Well, it, it,
it halligan is kind of poetry.

00:34:15.585 --> 00:34:15.805
Laura Chesterfield: Mm.

00:34:16.585 --> 00:34:18.484
Rupert Isaacson: In form.

00:34:19.034 --> 00:34:19.324
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

00:34:19.545 --> 00:34:20.350
Rupert Isaacson: Do you know what I mean?

00:34:20.350 --> 00:34:23.319
It it, the, the landscape
and the interplay between the

00:34:23.319 --> 00:34:26.800
landscapes and then the human
relationships with those landscapes.

00:34:27.279 --> 00:34:27.489
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

00:34:27.489 --> 00:34:29.800
Rupert Isaacson: It's, the
whole thing is, is poetic.

00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:32.800
And of course, while you're
talking, I'm just Googling quickly.

00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:34.569
I'm like Simon Monica poem.

00:34:34.824 --> 00:34:36.190
Uh uh.

00:34:36.630 --> 00:34:38.159
Poem Halligan.

00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:39.480
And I've got, I've got one.

00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:42.480
So I was gonna ask if you, if
you got one, but I saw you were

00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:44.640
sitting there, so I thought maybe
she hasn't actually got it to hand.

00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:46.290
So I'm gonna read it.

00:34:46.290 --> 00:34:46.949
Shall I read it?

00:34:47.159 --> 00:34:48.120
Laura Chesterfield:
Which one have you got?

00:34:48.180 --> 00:34:48.780
Rupert Isaacson: Hive.

00:34:49.409 --> 00:34:49.949
Laura Chesterfield: You've got Hive.

00:34:49.949 --> 00:34:50.100
Yeah.

00:34:50.100 --> 00:34:53.790
So there's, so, so, I mean, the
poems, he wrote 16 for us and some

00:34:53.790 --> 00:34:57.720
haikus, and then he loved it so much.

00:34:57.720 --> 00:35:01.080
He asked if he could release it as
a collection of poems, as a book.

00:35:01.560 --> 00:35:03.150
And the collection is called Dwell.

00:35:03.750 --> 00:35:03.840
Rupert Isaacson: Yep.

00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:05.370
Laura Chesterfield: Which
is such a great word.

00:35:05.370 --> 00:35:06.450
You know, it's just like

00:35:06.645 --> 00:35:06.995
Rupert Isaacson: dwell,

00:35:07.530 --> 00:35:11.070
Laura Chesterfield: dwell, you
know, and it's, it's magical.

00:35:11.070 --> 00:35:13.800
So the book was released, it's
a Sunday Times bestseller.

00:35:13.890 --> 00:35:15.660
It's, it's stunning.

00:35:15.660 --> 00:35:19.500
And everybody has a different favorite
and it's all about the creatures

00:35:19.500 --> 00:35:26.070
that dwell at GaN and some magical
kind of creative interpretations of,

00:35:26.430 --> 00:35:27.630
Rupert Isaacson: have
you got the book to hand?

00:35:28.080 --> 00:35:29.130
Laura Chesterfield: I do, I do.

00:35:29.135 --> 00:35:29.850
Rupert Isaacson: Do you want to read it?

00:35:30.420 --> 00:35:31.080
Why don't you read it?

00:35:31.820 --> 00:35:33.320
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah,
I mean, I can, I can,

00:35:33.370 --> 00:35:35.890
Rupert Isaacson: dwell by
Simon Armitage, poet laureate.

00:35:35.950 --> 00:35:36.430
Okay.

00:35:36.880 --> 00:35:37.660
Poems of halligan.

00:35:37.660 --> 00:35:38.230
All right.

00:35:38.530 --> 00:35:38.980
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

00:35:39.250 --> 00:35:40.090
Rupert Isaacson: Oh, what a treat.

00:35:40.210 --> 00:35:40.510
Okay.

00:35:41.500 --> 00:35:44.070
Laura Chesterfield: Gosh, I'm
not, I'm, I'm not as nearly

00:35:44.070 --> 00:35:46.560
as good at poetry as he is so,

00:35:47.460 --> 00:35:48.750
Rupert Isaacson: well, luckily
you don't have to write it,

00:35:48.750 --> 00:35:49.560
you just have to read it.

00:35:49.950 --> 00:35:50.400
Laura Chesterfield: I know.

00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:53.670
I'm just looking for, let's see,
which one shall I do the one?

00:35:53.670 --> 00:35:54.480
The fox one?

00:35:54.720 --> 00:35:54.900
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:35:54.900 --> 00:35:55.680
Do the fox one

00:35:56.880 --> 00:35:57.060
Laura Chesterfield: den.

00:35:58.770 --> 00:36:01.290
So the fox one is called den.

00:36:05.700 --> 00:36:06.210
Okay.

00:36:06.600 --> 00:36:11.610
So this is den for the pelt
harvest bushels of dead bracken

00:36:11.700 --> 00:36:13.410
quickened with poppy blood.

00:36:14.340 --> 00:36:19.620
Cokes forked lightning onto a barbed
wire fence to forge the teeth, the

00:36:19.620 --> 00:36:22.350
incisors of quartz, the claws flint.

00:36:23.130 --> 00:36:28.740
The tail is a copper beach hedge back
combed by west winds and tipped with snow.

00:36:29.550 --> 00:36:34.805
The reflection of serious balanced in
two puddles of fresh rain will serve as

00:36:34.810 --> 00:36:42.000
the eyes for the tongue, bury raw meat
for a month to la maggots dance then

00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:46.500
from daylight's cauldron, pour everything
earthwards, flooding the chambers and

00:36:46.500 --> 00:36:53.190
layers, and seal the kiln with the
door of night into a wet morning out of

00:36:53.190 --> 00:36:59.160
ash and filth, a fox emerges, dripping
with flames, setting the mind on fire.

00:37:00.870 --> 00:37:01.410
Rupert Isaacson: Beautiful.

00:37:02.730 --> 00:37:03.000
All right.

00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:04.200
I'm gonna read, hive

00:37:04.650 --> 00:37:04.920
Laura Chesterfield: Gone.

00:37:05.310 --> 00:37:06.810
Rupert Isaacson: I've got
it here and I can't resist.

00:37:07.830 --> 00:37:08.370
Wow.

00:37:08.460 --> 00:37:10.320
Okay, here we go, hive.

00:37:10.650 --> 00:37:11.640
So this is a B hive.

00:37:12.870 --> 00:37:12.930
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

00:37:13.260 --> 00:37:17.790
Rupert Isaacson: The weather
inside is always a blazing storm.

00:37:19.410 --> 00:37:27.270
Feverish cells colliding particles being
drawn in, batched around, thrown out.

00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:33.540
Imagine dipping your hand into
the swarm, feeling the furious

00:37:33.540 --> 00:37:36.030
blizzard at the reactor's core.

00:37:36.900 --> 00:37:41.580
Imagine the same frenzy of
fusion and fishing conjuring

00:37:41.580 --> 00:37:44.310
up the wrought hexagonal.

00:37:44.610 --> 00:37:51.480
What the heck of a honeycomb and
jars of sunlight in edible form.

00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:54.030
Laura Chesterfield: Great.

00:37:54.030 --> 00:37:54.420
Hey,

00:37:54.600 --> 00:37:57.360
Rupert Isaacson: brilliant, and
those are your halligan bees.

00:37:58.155 --> 00:37:58.665
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

00:37:59.205 --> 00:37:59.445
Yeah.

00:37:59.445 --> 00:38:02.265
So, I mean, read the collection.

00:38:02.265 --> 00:38:06.735
I mean, it's, it's, it's just a stunning
collection of, you know, of, of work.

00:38:06.740 --> 00:38:06.750
Yeah.

00:38:06.915 --> 00:38:11.325
And you know, what an honor that he's
written them about the place, you know,

00:38:11.330 --> 00:38:13.395
that, that we work and that we also dwell.

00:38:13.725 --> 00:38:18.645
And so that poem then we, we gave
the collection of poems to the

00:38:18.645 --> 00:38:22.995
artists and said, you know, we
would love to bring these poems.

00:38:23.385 --> 00:38:26.295
'cause they were obviously, you
know, curated to be seen in the

00:38:26.295 --> 00:38:28.635
landscape, not just within the book.

00:38:28.635 --> 00:38:33.255
So we thought, well, let's interpret one
in a different way through a sculpture.

00:38:33.255 --> 00:38:38.685
And the one that was chosen by the
artists was Den and was the Fox.

00:38:38.775 --> 00:38:44.655
And we also had some amazing photographs
taken by our head of restoration.

00:38:44.655 --> 00:38:48.765
Actually, Andy Wilson is also
a photographer, a brilliant

00:38:48.765 --> 00:38:49.755
wildlife photographer.

00:38:50.325 --> 00:38:54.615
And he had taken some photographs of
the foxes that live at Halligan and

00:38:54.615 --> 00:38:57.375
their cubs, and took this one picture.

00:38:58.035 --> 00:39:03.825
That it's just iconic of, of a fox
leaping through the air, really kind

00:39:03.825 --> 00:39:08.265
of in its natural hunting state,
you know, feeling so free at elgan

00:39:08.265 --> 00:39:11.295
to be its most authentic self.

00:39:11.625 --> 00:39:14.295
You know, they're not cute
creatures that are all cuddly

00:39:14.295 --> 00:39:15.645
and, you know, need a cuddle lay.

00:39:15.645 --> 00:39:18.735
They're fierce hunters,
you know, in the landscape.

00:39:18.765 --> 00:39:22.155
And, and, and this picture
really encaptured that.

00:39:22.155 --> 00:39:28.215
So the artists were inspired both by
Simon's words and Andy's photography.

00:39:28.650 --> 00:39:32.790
And created this sculpture, which
as I say, six meters high, you know,

00:39:32.790 --> 00:39:34.800
we, we went big, we went all in.

00:39:35.520 --> 00:39:39.480
And and I, and I hope your listeners
will, will either visit, but go, but

00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:41.640
Google Luana and, and see an image.

00:39:41.640 --> 00:39:45.375
And it's not you, you can't
really describe how she makes

00:39:45.405 --> 00:39:46.845
you feel because she's so big.

00:39:47.025 --> 00:39:50.475
You feel like the prey when you are
there, you are underneath her and

00:39:50.475 --> 00:39:54.915
you're tiny and you really feel that
power of a powerful wild animal.

00:39:54.915 --> 00:39:59.115
And for us at Halligan that, you
know, that was about, again, same as

00:39:59.115 --> 00:40:03.195
all of the sculptures telling a story
and people being able to just see the

00:40:03.195 --> 00:40:06.915
piece of art and, you know, making up
their own story with their families

00:40:06.915 --> 00:40:10.035
and, you know, pretending to be eaten
alive and taking their photographs.

00:40:10.395 --> 00:40:14.415
But it also, you know, for us was
absolutely signifying our intention

00:40:14.415 --> 00:40:21.615
as a business to say we are here as a
safe space for animals, for wildlife,

00:40:21.615 --> 00:40:23.780
for people you know, and that we are.

00:40:24.530 --> 00:40:27.980
We are celebrating the
natural world at scale.

00:40:28.970 --> 00:40:32.420
Rupert Isaacson: I'm looking at, I'm
looking at some photos of her now, Lois.

00:40:33.380 --> 00:40:37.370
So, a a lot of listeners may not
know Cornish is a form of Gaelic.

00:40:37.400 --> 00:40:40.220
It, it's, it has its own Celtic language.

00:40:40.490 --> 00:40:42.980
Lois is a vixen in in Cornish.

00:40:43.400 --> 00:40:43.550
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

00:40:43.555 --> 00:40:44.540
Rupert Isaacson: And I see her.

00:40:44.540 --> 00:40:45.110
She's leaping.

00:40:45.110 --> 00:40:47.660
She's mouthing, but she's huge.

00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:49.100
And she's beautiful.

00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:49.820
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

00:40:50.055 --> 00:40:51.735
Rupert Isaacson: I can't
wait to come and see her.

00:40:51.885 --> 00:40:56.985
As you know, if you followed any of
my work, I'm an autism dad and we have

00:40:56.985 --> 00:41:03.545
a whole career before this podcast in
helping people with neurodivergence,

00:41:04.224 --> 00:41:06.445
either who are professionals in the field.

00:41:06.524 --> 00:41:07.365
Are you a therapist?

00:41:07.785 --> 00:41:09.055
Are you a caregiver?

00:41:09.445 --> 00:41:10.455
Are you a parent?

00:41:10.890 --> 00:41:12.920
Or are you somebody with neurodivergence?

00:41:14.360 --> 00:41:19.300
When my son, Rowan, was
diagnosed with autism in 2004,

00:41:19.340 --> 00:41:20.970
I really didn't know what to do.

00:41:21.170 --> 00:41:26.439
So I reached out for mentorship, and
I found it through an amazing adult

00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:29.280
autistic woman who's very famous, Dr.

00:41:29.430 --> 00:41:30.320
Temple Grandin.

00:41:30.520 --> 00:41:32.160
And she told me what to do.

00:41:32.210 --> 00:41:36.450
And it's been working so
amazingly for the last 20 years.

00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:41.250
That not only is my son basically
independent, but we've helped

00:41:41.510 --> 00:41:45.260
countless, countless thousands
of others reach the same goal.

00:41:45.600 --> 00:41:49.500
Working in schools, working at
home, working in therapy settings.

00:41:50.530 --> 00:41:54.970
If you would like to learn this
cutting edge, neuroscience backed

00:41:55.189 --> 00:41:57.229
approach, it's called Movement Method.

00:41:57.889 --> 00:42:01.247
You can learn it online, you
can learn it very, very simply.

00:42:01.247 --> 00:42:03.509
It's almost laughably simple.

00:42:04.450 --> 00:42:07.150
The important thing is to begin.

00:42:08.080 --> 00:42:11.230
Let yourself be mentored as I was by Dr.

00:42:11.230 --> 00:42:14.520
Grandin and see what results can follow.

00:42:15.550 --> 00:42:18.480
Go to this website, newtrailslearning.

00:42:20.750 --> 00:42:23.255
com Sign up as a gold member.

00:42:23.695 --> 00:42:26.585
Take the online movement method course.

00:42:27.075 --> 00:42:28.445
It's in 40 countries.

00:42:29.055 --> 00:42:31.115
Let us know how it goes for you.

00:42:31.315 --> 00:42:32.084
We really want to know.

00:42:32.095 --> 00:42:36.594
We really want to help people like
me, people like you, out there

00:42:36.944 --> 00:42:40.225
live their best life, to live
free, ride free, see what happens.

00:42:41.215 --> 00:42:41.505
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:45.990
So the other part of Luann is, was
that we, we had one of our historic

00:42:46.380 --> 00:42:49.930
rends fell in, in a storm a year ago.

00:42:50.440 --> 00:42:51.280
A year ago now.

00:42:51.310 --> 00:42:52.900
At the top pond of the jungle.

00:42:53.410 --> 00:42:56.170
And it fell and it was like a
moment of mourning, you know,

00:42:56.170 --> 00:42:58.330
this tree with all this history.

00:42:58.330 --> 00:43:01.840
And I remember gathering round the
tree with Alistair Moore, who was

00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:06.100
our head of gardens at the time, who,
you know, and we both sort of felt

00:43:06.100 --> 00:43:07.900
like sobbing, you know, it was like.

00:43:08.785 --> 00:43:12.355
All that history of where that
tree had come from and the things

00:43:12.355 --> 00:43:13.705
it had seen over the years.

00:43:13.705 --> 00:43:16.945
And it was, you know, it was
fallen by nature really naturally,

00:43:16.945 --> 00:43:19.015
but we felt a real loss of it.

00:43:19.015 --> 00:43:21.775
And that was at the start
of this project of LOEs.

00:43:22.315 --> 00:43:24.475
And the artists were just amazing.

00:43:24.475 --> 00:43:27.415
They said, let's, let's restore her.

00:43:27.445 --> 00:43:30.085
Let's restore the tree and
turn her into something else.

00:43:30.415 --> 00:43:35.215
And so the entire sculpture
is encased and crafted.

00:43:35.215 --> 00:43:39.115
Every last bit has been craft handcrafted
by them from the roaded engine tree.

00:43:39.535 --> 00:43:41.335
So it's kind of come back to life.

00:43:41.335 --> 00:43:41.395
Hmm.

00:43:41.725 --> 00:43:47.875
So it, it's actually a 200 year old
fox because the, the wood is got

00:43:47.875 --> 00:43:51.295
all that history, but that it also
just leads to how special it is,

00:43:51.295 --> 00:43:55.855
you know, that there's that history
in the material that's been used.

00:43:55.855 --> 00:43:57.775
And, you know, really

00:43:58.075 --> 00:43:59.485
Rupert Isaacson: again yeah,
it's nature in the mind.

00:43:59.485 --> 00:44:05.615
It's the, it's the interaction of the
human with the landscape on every level.

00:44:06.230 --> 00:44:06.500
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

00:44:06.500 --> 00:44:10.730
Rupert Isaacson: Aesthetic,
natural, edible, healing.

00:44:11.450 --> 00:44:15.500
You know, I, I think maybe Halligan
is one of those places that reminds

00:44:15.500 --> 00:44:18.290
us what our species actually is.

00:44:18.290 --> 00:44:18.350
Yeah.

00:44:19.010 --> 00:44:24.680
Because, you know, we, I think most of
us spend a lot of our lives in a quiet

00:44:24.680 --> 00:44:28.460
state of stress, not knowing we're
in a quiet state of stress because

00:44:28.460 --> 00:44:32.450
we are just not in the habitat that
our species are supposed to be in.

00:44:32.450 --> 00:44:32.840
Right.

00:44:32.840 --> 00:44:32.900
Yeah.

00:44:33.260 --> 00:44:40.450
And a lot of us now need that,
you know, total, total wilderness

00:44:40.900 --> 00:44:45.220
is beautiful, but it also, if you
how to be in it, it'll kill you.

00:44:45.710 --> 00:44:50.240
The, a place like Halligan, which
which is this absolute sort of

00:44:50.240 --> 00:44:55.160
interface between the civilized world
and the wild, natural world, it.

00:44:56.270 --> 00:44:59.390
I think it speaks to
something very deep, you know?

00:44:59.600 --> 00:45:03.020
And then you go from that woodland
walk and the gray lady as well.

00:45:03.110 --> 00:45:09.080
And you look, you see that meadow
where you sometimes have your pigs.

00:45:09.500 --> 00:45:12.740
And beyond that meadow, you see the
cliffs and the ocean and the sea.

00:45:13.550 --> 00:45:17.330
And then you go down into that ravine,
which is the, which is the jungle.

00:45:17.330 --> 00:45:19.970
And you are in that
cathedral of tree phones.

00:45:19.970 --> 00:45:23.180
And you go across this swinging
rope bridge, which is so amazing.

00:45:23.180 --> 00:45:25.340
And you could go in all
these different directions.

00:45:25.340 --> 00:45:27.590
And there are also these giant
oak trees as well, sort of.

00:45:28.190 --> 00:45:32.030
And then you, when you come out on
the other side, and then you ascend

00:45:32.030 --> 00:45:34.910
that ravine and you come back out
into that meadow, that big medal,

00:45:35.270 --> 00:45:37.490
you've then got bugging and palace.

00:45:38.300 --> 00:45:38.750
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

00:45:39.050 --> 00:45:40.460
Rupert Isaacson: Tell us
about bugging and palace.

00:45:40.700 --> 00:45:41.690
Laura Chesterfield: Bugging and palace.

00:45:41.970 --> 00:45:45.030
The, there's actually, Simon wrote a poem.

00:45:45.405 --> 00:45:47.355
About bugging and palace as well.

00:45:47.355 --> 00:45:50.565
It, I think, I'm not sure it's my
favorite, my favorite changes all

00:45:50.565 --> 00:45:55.725
the time, but it was the one that I
laughed out loud every time I read it

00:45:55.725 --> 00:46:01.335
because Bugging and Palace is a project
that, that I started with a member

00:46:01.335 --> 00:46:03.220
of the team, a guy called Sam and.

00:46:04.015 --> 00:46:07.375
I think he wanted to kill me by
the end of it because I wanted

00:46:07.375 --> 00:46:11.035
to build an insect hotel that
people could sort of engage with.

00:46:11.035 --> 00:46:14.205
And that was in a location that
was accessible to everybody.

00:46:14.685 --> 00:46:16.875
But again, I wanted to do it at scale.

00:46:16.875 --> 00:46:18.315
I wanted to make it impressive.

00:46:18.315 --> 00:46:22.935
I wanted to make it, you know, were a
visitor destination at the end of the

00:46:22.935 --> 00:46:26.955
day, so, you know, you wanna do it where
there's, there's lots of stories that

00:46:26.955 --> 00:46:29.175
are gonna be presented for years to come.

00:46:29.175 --> 00:46:30.885
So said, let's make it big.

00:46:30.885 --> 00:46:33.435
And we looked at the world record and
we went, okay, we're aimed for that.

00:46:33.795 --> 00:46:38.085
We actually ended up doubling the
world record because you know, why not?

00:46:39.675 --> 00:46:44.415
And so it is the largest
insect hotel in the world.

00:46:44.565 --> 00:46:50.235
And it's, it's a beautiful thing because
it has been designed so beautifully and

00:46:50.235 --> 00:46:52.365
so naturally by the team at Halligan.

00:46:52.365 --> 00:46:56.775
And, and as with most of the things we
do at Halligan, our team do it themselves

00:46:56.775 --> 00:46:58.845
and, and, and are absolutely brilliant.

00:46:58.845 --> 00:47:02.925
You know, whether it's a play area or
the bug and bug palace, it's our team

00:47:02.925 --> 00:47:04.725
that get their hands dirty and create it.

00:47:04.725 --> 00:47:10.365
And so this bug hotel is absolutely
enormous, but the species that have

00:47:10.365 --> 00:47:13.305
come to live in it are astounding.

00:47:13.305 --> 00:47:18.495
I mean, we have had real specialists
come and, you know, be so generous with

00:47:18.495 --> 00:47:24.165
their time and, and sort of exploring
the hotel for species, some of which, you

00:47:24.165 --> 00:47:25.755
know, you can't see with the naked eye.

00:47:26.025 --> 00:47:30.825
But we, we've had one specialist
who is a Beetle fanatic and this guy

00:47:30.825 --> 00:47:34.815
called Jerry Lee has come in and,
and, and basically gone the whole way

00:47:34.815 --> 00:47:37.305
round this hotel looking for beetles.

00:47:37.305 --> 00:47:40.755
And he's found species that have never
been discovered in the UK before.

00:47:41.115 --> 00:47:42.645
He's found species that.

00:47:42.950 --> 00:47:46.520
He thought were in extinct in this hotel.

00:47:46.820 --> 00:47:50.510
We've had types of fungi grow
that are incredibly rare.

00:47:50.510 --> 00:47:51.830
Like the lion's mane.

00:47:51.830 --> 00:47:53.120
We had that suddenly.

00:47:53.125 --> 00:47:54.505
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, I got
really excited about that one.

00:47:54.980 --> 00:47:55.310
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

00:47:55.580 --> 00:47:59.150
It suddenly grew and then it grew a
friend, and then it grew another friend

00:47:59.150 --> 00:48:03.890
and we actually, I mean it was a very
funny story of actually having to get

00:48:04.280 --> 00:48:07.850
Gabe a Gabon that looks a bit like
a cage and kind of place it over the

00:48:07.850 --> 00:48:12.290
top of this lion's mane that had grown
because you, we were so worried people

00:48:12.290 --> 00:48:17.270
were gonna steal it, but also quite
hallucinogenic properties and quite sought

00:48:17.270 --> 00:48:19.250
after and, and also incredibly rare.

00:48:19.640 --> 00:48:23.680
And it was the first time I think
that a fungi has been on BB, C.

00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:27.540
World news you know, at seven o'clock
in the morning because it was just

00:48:27.540 --> 00:48:31.680
such a story of, of it being put in
this cage in captivity to protect it.

00:48:32.170 --> 00:48:35.380
But we've, we've got lots of stories
like that from, from the Bug Hotel,

00:48:35.380 --> 00:48:41.110
where I think creating something so large
and also filling all of the, a lot of

00:48:41.110 --> 00:48:45.400
it was built using gabon's, filling it
with wood from so many different areas.

00:48:45.790 --> 00:48:45.910
Mm-hmm.

00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:50.830
Straw leaves, all sorts of things,
has just bought all of these different

00:48:50.830 --> 00:48:53.050
characters and different inhabitants.

00:48:53.050 --> 00:48:55.810
And it's sort of part of what we
try and do at Halligan is make

00:48:55.810 --> 00:49:00.850
that hidden world visible, but
in a way that protects its stick.

00:49:01.090 --> 00:49:01.180
Mm-hmm.

00:49:01.480 --> 00:49:04.540
So trying to find ways where you can
tell those stories through different

00:49:04.540 --> 00:49:08.260
ways, but still protect the habitat
because we don't want people to go and

00:49:08.260 --> 00:49:11.590
look for the foxes at liver halligan
because, you know, you get 300,000

00:49:11.590 --> 00:49:13.240
people TRAs in through the woodland.

00:49:13.900 --> 00:49:15.970
It's not a safe habitat for them.

00:49:15.970 --> 00:49:20.980
So it's that real balance of like, how do
I let people get close and engage, but.

00:49:21.750 --> 00:49:25.860
Still, you know, protect that space
so that it prolongs and remains.

00:49:26.200 --> 00:49:29.050
So Ingham Palace does that, 'cause
we can keep it shut a lot of the

00:49:29.050 --> 00:49:31.390
time, but we get amazing photographs.

00:49:31.390 --> 00:49:31.750
We,

00:49:31.900 --> 00:49:34.390
Rupert Isaacson: and you say there was
a, there was a poem written about it.

00:49:35.080 --> 00:49:35.290
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

00:49:35.290 --> 00:49:36.910
So one of Simon's poems.

00:49:37.010 --> 00:49:38.060
Rupert Isaacson: Is it there in Dwell?

00:49:38.240 --> 00:49:39.260
Laura Chesterfield: It is, yeah.

00:49:39.260 --> 00:49:39.800
Rupert Isaacson: Read it to us.

00:49:39.920 --> 00:49:40.730
Laura Chesterfield: Oh my gosh.

00:49:41.030 --> 00:49:44.810
I mean, this one needs someone
really good with, with voices

00:49:45.830 --> 00:49:47.630
because it's basically like a triple

00:49:47.630 --> 00:49:49.520
Rupert Isaacson: Imagine I'm your kid
and you're reading to me at night.

00:49:49.880 --> 00:49:50.750
Laura Chesterfield: Oh gosh.

00:49:51.830 --> 00:49:54.770
I should have known that this, this
conversation was gonna be like this

00:49:57.110 --> 00:49:57.830
insect hotel.

00:49:57.835 --> 00:49:58.045
Right.

00:49:58.050 --> 00:49:58.340
Okay.

00:49:59.420 --> 00:50:00.650
Rupert Isaacson: Slow
down so we can hear it.

00:50:01.010 --> 00:50:01.550
Laura Chesterfield: Okay.

00:50:02.645 --> 00:50:03.995
It is quite long actually, this one.

00:50:04.325 --> 00:50:04.415
Rupert Isaacson: This

00:50:04.415 --> 00:50:04.565
Laura Chesterfield: is good.

00:50:04.565 --> 00:50:10.965
So, it's written brilliantly a bit
like a TripAdvisor review by all

00:50:10.965 --> 00:50:14.565
of the insects that have stayed
at bugging and pallet hotel.

00:50:15.375 --> 00:50:15.885
Okay?

00:50:16.755 --> 00:50:20.805
We were somewhat distressed by the
cockroaches in our bedroom until

00:50:20.805 --> 00:50:25.965
we remembered we are cockroaches,
then felt very at home, sketchy

00:50:25.965 --> 00:50:28.065
phone signal and rubbish wifi.

00:50:28.425 --> 00:50:31.575
I'm all for being green and
environmentally righteous, et cetera,

00:50:31.575 --> 00:50:36.165
et cetera, but not if it means
living in the dark Ages, stopped here

00:50:36.165 --> 00:50:40.605
overnight on the way to a decaying
oak a couple of miles away and ended

00:50:40.605 --> 00:50:42.465
up hibernating for the whole winter.

00:50:42.675 --> 00:50:45.225
Would Defo recommend dreamland?

00:50:46.125 --> 00:50:46.965
Thin walls.

00:50:47.385 --> 00:50:48.285
Earwigs next door.

00:50:48.345 --> 00:50:52.755
Felt very overheard, dark and dingy.

00:50:52.845 --> 00:50:55.635
Had to ask a glowworm to
show me the way to my room.

00:50:56.505 --> 00:50:58.005
Just checking out when.

00:50:58.245 --> 00:50:58.905
Whoa.

00:50:58.965 --> 00:50:59.925
Nater jack toed.

00:50:59.925 --> 00:51:02.685
Incoming nater jack toed swoon.

00:51:02.745 --> 00:51:03.975
Absolute gentleman.

00:51:04.005 --> 00:51:05.295
Got a selfie can die.

00:51:05.295 --> 00:51:06.135
Happy now.

00:51:07.095 --> 00:51:08.775
Room too small, but great.

00:51:08.775 --> 00:51:09.915
Buffet breakfast.

00:51:09.975 --> 00:51:10.575
Fresh baby.

00:51:10.575 --> 00:51:10.755
Wood.

00:51:10.755 --> 00:51:11.085
Lice.

00:51:11.085 --> 00:51:12.375
The best I've tasted.

00:51:14.295 --> 00:51:14.775
Life.

00:51:14.775 --> 00:51:15.735
Doesn't work.

00:51:15.825 --> 00:51:18.915
Got stuck behind an old
snail on the stairs.

00:51:19.065 --> 00:51:20.835
I was like, get a R along.

00:51:20.835 --> 00:51:21.495
Granddad.

00:51:21.795 --> 00:51:22.965
Call me Snail list.

00:51:23.025 --> 00:51:23.385
But why?

00:51:23.385 --> 00:51:26.715
Stay at a hotel when you've got
your own house on your back, right?

00:51:27.855 --> 00:51:30.855
A little bit off the beaten
track, but decent night life.

00:51:31.635 --> 00:51:33.795
Creepy, lousy.

00:51:35.220 --> 00:51:39.420
As a door mouse, I was slightly surprised
to be sharing a room with a hedgehog.

00:51:39.690 --> 00:51:42.120
Thought he might be a bit
of a prickly character.

00:51:42.750 --> 00:51:46.860
Laugh out loud, winking face
emoji, but we rubbed along.

00:51:47.040 --> 00:51:47.610
Ouch.

00:51:47.670 --> 00:51:52.050
Laugh out loud, winking face emoji
very well and have kept in touch.

00:51:52.410 --> 00:51:53.010
Ouch again.

00:51:53.040 --> 00:51:56.340
Laugh out loud, winking
face emoji ever since.

00:51:56.430 --> 00:51:57.840
Smiley face emoji.

00:51:58.830 --> 00:52:02.940
To whom it may concern, the bar
was full of inebriated bees.

00:52:03.120 --> 00:52:05.040
I think there had been a big match.

00:52:05.130 --> 00:52:07.140
They were extremely intoxicated.

00:52:07.410 --> 00:52:09.900
Downing nectar like there was no tomorrow.

00:52:09.930 --> 00:52:11.370
Dressed in team colors.

00:52:11.640 --> 00:52:14.460
Woover Hampton, Wanderers, wasps, Mrs.

00:52:14.460 --> 00:52:17.250
Lace Wing and myself found
them very intimidating.

00:52:17.670 --> 00:52:19.290
Haven't they got hives to go to?

00:52:20.730 --> 00:52:23.460
Amazing Beatles tribute
band in the function room.

00:52:25.500 --> 00:52:26.760
I am not a stick.

00:52:27.060 --> 00:52:33.600
I am a stick insect, so it's very annoying
to have a snooze in the bar, only to wake

00:52:33.600 --> 00:52:38.310
up and find that someone has tidied me
away in the umbrella stand, or is using

00:52:38.310 --> 00:52:40.500
me to help them hobble around the gardens.

00:52:40.830 --> 00:52:44.160
Also, for your information,
I am not a snooker co.

00:52:44.610 --> 00:52:47.640
Would you be happy if you came
round from an afternoon nap to

00:52:47.640 --> 00:52:51.390
discover someone whittling your
leg into a Welsh love spoon?

00:52:53.490 --> 00:52:56.790
Left my shoes outside my room,
and in the morning they'd been

00:52:56.790 --> 00:52:58.410
properly cleaned and polished.

00:52:58.710 --> 00:52:59.040
Thank you.

00:52:59.040 --> 00:53:00.210
A hundred times over.

00:53:00.360 --> 00:53:02.580
You made this centipede very happy.

00:53:03.570 --> 00:53:04.350
Horrendous.

00:53:04.440 --> 00:53:07.770
Brought the kids with us, but next
morning they'd been eaten by a ook.

00:53:08.040 --> 00:53:09.540
No refund or apology.

00:53:09.630 --> 00:53:12.390
Not even a drinks voucher
tooth thumbs down.

00:53:13.290 --> 00:53:17.940
Booked a standard fallen log, but
got upgraded to junior Birch bark's

00:53:17.940 --> 00:53:20.580
suite with a view of Megi result.

00:53:21.675 --> 00:53:22.665
No parking.

00:53:23.055 --> 00:53:23.865
Great buzz.

00:53:27.045 --> 00:53:27.225
That's it.

00:53:27.570 --> 00:53:28.310
Rupert Isaacson: That's brilliant.

00:53:28.545 --> 00:53:29.085
That's brilliant.

00:53:29.955 --> 00:53:31.125
Laura Chesterfield: I need to
practice that one on all the

00:53:31.125 --> 00:53:32.475
voices, but it's so clever.

00:53:32.475 --> 00:53:32.775
Rupert Isaacson: You did it.

00:53:32.805 --> 00:53:34.430
No, you did it beautifully actually.

00:53:34.660 --> 00:53:35.535
Yeah, yeah.

00:53:35.745 --> 00:53:36.375
Well done.

00:53:37.185 --> 00:53:41.235
Laura Chesterfield: So, yeah, so, you
know, building things like, like the hotel

00:53:41.325 --> 00:53:45.195
enables us to then still tell stories off
the back of it, you know, and, and, and

00:53:45.195 --> 00:53:49.455
you know, that poem will be displayed on
site in a really creative, beautiful way.

00:53:49.460 --> 00:53:54.165
And, and just hopefully helps, you
know, give nature a bit of a voice and

00:53:54.375 --> 00:53:58.185
for people to empathize with it and
connect with it in a different way.

00:53:58.185 --> 00:54:02.025
'cause as soon as you give a, a name to
something, you connect with it, right?

00:54:02.025 --> 00:54:02.685
I mean, if we,

00:54:02.685 --> 00:54:03.255
Rupert Isaacson: absolutely,

00:54:03.405 --> 00:54:05.145
Laura Chesterfield: there's a
wasp flying around in our house.

00:54:05.145 --> 00:54:07.935
The kids are screaming, but as
soon as you call the, was a name.

00:54:08.820 --> 00:54:11.160
Suddenly got a personality
and the kids go, oh yeah, no,

00:54:11.160 --> 00:54:12.480
we should let Bernard out.

00:54:12.480 --> 00:54:14.550
You know, like, go, I'm sure
he doesn't wanna hurt me.

00:54:14.550 --> 00:54:15.360
And it's just,

00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:16.710
Rupert Isaacson: of course
the wasp was called Bernard.

00:54:16.715 --> 00:54:16.955
Yeah,

00:54:17.940 --> 00:54:18.000
Laura Chesterfield: yeah.

00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:20.035
It's an all wasp Is that what Youp

00:54:20.105 --> 00:54:20.595
Rupert Isaacson: Bernard?

00:54:20.595 --> 00:54:20.795
Yeah.

00:54:20.820 --> 00:54:24.100
Laura Chesterfield: All was so Bernard
the wasp is suddenly not so scary when

00:54:24.100 --> 00:54:27.609
he's Bernard the wasp and not just the
wasp, you know, the wants to hurt you.

00:54:27.609 --> 00:54:31.089
So trying to tell stories where people
feel something, where people connect

00:54:31.089 --> 00:54:35.499
in a different way is, is kind of,
it's super fun and, and hopefully helps

00:54:35.504 --> 00:54:37.450
Rupert Isaacson: it, it, it's actually
an interesting point that you make

00:54:37.450 --> 00:54:40.859
though, because you know, people often
say, oh one shouldn't anthropomorphize.

00:54:41.369 --> 00:54:44.339
And I've always questioned that.

00:54:44.339 --> 00:54:47.189
It's like, well, what else can
one do about anthropomorphize?

00:54:47.430 --> 00:54:51.089
'cause we are anthropo
anthros in a landscape.

00:54:51.509 --> 00:54:54.749
I should imagine that my horses equi.

00:54:57.029 --> 00:55:03.384
Trope, me and my dog probably canino
tropes me or whatever, you know, they,

00:55:03.384 --> 00:55:07.019
they, they, they have to, they would
have to interpret me right through the

00:55:07.019 --> 00:55:08.879
lens of that they would have to project.

00:55:09.329 --> 00:55:12.669
And, but isn't that also the magic
of our interaction with nature?

00:55:12.759 --> 00:55:14.499
And you talk about giving nature a voice.

00:55:14.499 --> 00:55:14.709
Of course.

00:55:14.709 --> 00:55:22.119
One of the big big achievements I'd
say in that regard is that you also

00:55:22.119 --> 00:55:24.249
reintroduced the European beaver.

00:55:25.059 --> 00:55:25.749
Laura Chesterfield: Yes.

00:55:25.779 --> 00:55:27.039
Rupert Isaacson: Can
you tell us about that?

00:55:27.039 --> 00:55:27.699
How that happened?

00:55:27.699 --> 00:55:28.569
Why that happened?

00:55:29.259 --> 00:55:29.439
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah,

00:55:29.439 --> 00:55:31.509
Rupert Isaacson: that's,
that's quite a landmark thing.

00:55:32.394 --> 00:55:34.704
Laura Chesterfield: Very,
very cool, very special.

00:55:34.764 --> 00:55:40.134
And I mean the, the wildlife team that,
that we've got at heli again, they're, you

00:55:40.134 --> 00:55:45.084
know, they're just brilliant and they're
really driven and to doing amazing things.

00:55:45.084 --> 00:55:50.784
And, you know, it was a, it was such a
big project to, you know, to kind of be

00:55:50.784 --> 00:55:53.874
brave enough to do, because it's one of
those subjects, as soon as you go out

00:55:53.874 --> 00:55:57.984
saying you are reintroducing beavers,
everyone's got an opinion, whether

00:55:57.984 --> 00:56:02.784
it's an informed one or not, about what
that's gonna do to your land, what that's

00:56:02.784 --> 00:56:04.615
gonna mean for the environment, what

00:56:04.615 --> 00:56:07.704
Rupert Isaacson: also, what's that gonna
mean for their land downstream of you.

00:56:07.794 --> 00:56:08.184
Yeah,

00:56:08.394 --> 00:56:08.784
Laura Chesterfield: absolutely.

00:56:08.784 --> 00:56:10.434
Rupert Isaacson: Not to mention
all the dirty jokes Yeah.

00:56:10.764 --> 00:56:11.095
Has to be

00:56:11.095 --> 00:56:11.334
Laura Chesterfield: said.

00:56:11.334 --> 00:56:13.669
I mean, they're endless, which
is just a gift that keeps

00:56:13.929 --> 00:56:14.470
Rupert Isaacson: wet beavers.

00:56:14.470 --> 00:56:14.749
Yeah.

00:56:14.749 --> 00:56:14.990
Yeah.

00:56:15.809 --> 00:56:18.414
Laura Chesterfield: To be honest,
it just keeps on giving every team

00:56:18.414 --> 00:56:19.974
meeting, every team gathering.

00:56:20.454 --> 00:56:21.374
And yeah.

00:56:21.374 --> 00:56:22.184
Rupert Isaacson: But why did you do it?

00:56:22.184 --> 00:56:23.924
Why, why did you guys decide to do that?

00:56:24.990 --> 00:56:26.550
Laura Chesterfield: There
are keystone species.

00:56:26.550 --> 00:56:27.870
I mean, they are,

00:56:27.895 --> 00:56:29.490
Rupert Isaacson: tell us
what's a keystone species?

00:56:29.580 --> 00:56:31.020
I mean, not everybody knows this term.

00:56:31.259 --> 00:56:32.520
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah, sorry.

00:56:32.520 --> 00:56:35.990
It's they basically are a species
that help the world go around.

00:56:36.110 --> 00:56:36.860
You know, if you,

00:56:36.860 --> 00:56:37.910
Rupert Isaacson: why, how?

00:56:38.060 --> 00:56:41.270
Laura Chesterfield: Because they, I mean,
the thing with beavers is that they.

00:56:42.560 --> 00:56:47.029
They are one of the biggest architects
of nature that there is other than us.

00:56:47.060 --> 00:56:51.920
So that you've never seen an animal
change a habitat the way that a

00:56:51.920 --> 00:56:57.589
beaver does, and the impact of
that impacts the whole ecosystem.

00:56:57.680 --> 00:57:01.190
So that's really what it means is it's
that, you know, it's, it is a species that

00:57:01.580 --> 00:57:04.910
without them, the knock on effect of them.

00:57:05.294 --> 00:57:10.515
Is like a ripple and it really impacts
all of the other species, whether it's

00:57:10.515 --> 00:57:17.294
plants, insects, mammals, it, it's,
it's, they have such an impact through

00:57:17.294 --> 00:57:19.995
being there, but not being there as well.

00:57:20.294 --> 00:57:24.884
And I think that, you know, they
became less and less common.

00:57:24.884 --> 00:57:28.964
Not that not, it wasn't that on recent,
you know, it's been quite a recent thing

00:57:28.964 --> 00:57:31.995
that they started disappearing from
the landscapes and landscapes kept,

00:57:32.115 --> 00:57:33.585
you know, have changed ever since.

00:57:33.825 --> 00:57:38.805
But when you reintroduce one for us,
reintroducing them at GaN onto our

00:57:38.805 --> 00:57:43.964
waterways and, and within a habitat
within the woodlands, the transformation

00:57:43.964 --> 00:57:46.694
of that space has been unbelievable.

00:57:46.694 --> 00:57:47.685
You know, and we didn't know,

00:57:47.690 --> 00:57:47.970
Rupert Isaacson: what have you seen?

00:57:48.830 --> 00:57:49.370
Laura Chesterfield: What have we seen?

00:57:49.370 --> 00:57:52.949
So, I mean, they, it was quite funny
because Toby, who is our wildlife

00:57:52.949 --> 00:57:57.849
coordinator, he built the start of
a couple of dams along the sort of

00:57:57.849 --> 00:57:59.679
stream where we were putting them.

00:58:00.309 --> 00:58:02.829
And within like the first week of, of Mr.

00:58:02.829 --> 00:58:03.159
And Mrs.

00:58:03.159 --> 00:58:07.449
Beaver moving in, they had
completely taken Toby's dam apart

00:58:07.999 --> 00:58:09.169
you know, just not good enough

00:58:11.269 --> 00:58:15.229
and completely rebuilt it, and then
some and triple it in its size.

00:58:15.469 --> 00:58:19.309
And suddenly then behind this
dam, all the water is collecting.

00:58:19.609 --> 00:58:22.759
And then in that water, because
it's collecting, you're then

00:58:22.759 --> 00:58:26.144
seeing all these shoots coming
up at the edge of what is now.

00:58:27.009 --> 00:58:29.199
You know, it's not a lake, it's
definitely not a lake, but it

00:58:29.199 --> 00:58:31.329
is a huge, huge watercourse.

00:58:31.749 --> 00:58:35.799
And then, you know, that the knock
on effect of that, of having these

00:58:35.799 --> 00:58:39.399
species growing is that then there's
more bugs that are coming in, and then

00:58:39.729 --> 00:58:43.329
they're feeding all of the bats and
the owls and the rest of the ecosystem.

00:58:43.329 --> 00:58:46.569
And you're suddenly just seeing
this landscape that didn't have

00:58:46.569 --> 00:58:51.789
much biodiversity, becoming a home
for so many creatures where they

00:58:51.789 --> 00:58:57.269
all had, you know, something to
eat and could live there basically.

00:58:57.419 --> 00:59:01.619
So you're restoring habitat and so
beavers as a keystone species that are

00:59:01.619 --> 00:59:06.479
really, you know, can be responsible
for incredible habitat restoration.

00:59:06.899 --> 00:59:07.289
And

00:59:07.289 --> 00:59:07.769
Rupert Isaacson: now

00:59:08.009 --> 00:59:08.249
Laura Chesterfield: that's

00:59:08.399 --> 00:59:11.039
Rupert Isaacson: for sure, but
given that they became extinct

00:59:11.039 --> 00:59:12.689
in the UK in the 16th C, it's.

00:59:14.049 --> 00:59:18.069
500 years ago, and some people
would probably say, well,

00:59:18.069 --> 00:59:19.569
we'd be managing without them.

00:59:20.079 --> 00:59:22.929
Why do we need to bring them back?

00:59:22.989 --> 00:59:23.349
Now?

00:59:23.349 --> 00:59:25.749
I, I, you know, some people might
say, okay, it's the whimsical thing.

00:59:25.749 --> 00:59:30.639
It's, or it's restoring, you know,
nature as it was, it's rewilding,

00:59:31.599 --> 00:59:36.699
but why do we need beavers in
this d everyone needs a beaver.

00:59:36.939 --> 00:59:37.629
But why?

00:59:37.929 --> 00:59:39.699
It's funny we said the
architect of nature.

00:59:39.699 --> 00:59:43.179
It's like, well, several
jokes came to mind there, but

00:59:43.404 --> 00:59:43.694
Yeah.

00:59:46.359 --> 00:59:51.819
Seriously though, when you had
to play devil's advocate, why,

00:59:52.449 --> 00:59:57.939
given that they've been gone for
500 years and life has gone on.

00:59:58.269 --> 00:59:58.659
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:00:00.039 --> 01:00:03.939
Rupert Isaacson: Why, what
value, what specific value at

01:00:03.939 --> 01:00:05.469
this juncture do they bring?

01:00:06.579 --> 01:00:10.859
Laura Chesterfield: Well, I think you
have to see it to really understand it.

01:00:11.264 --> 01:00:14.204
That's, you know, that's one of
the things I think pe people need

01:00:14.204 --> 01:00:19.604
to engage with it and see the
change in action that they bring.

01:00:19.964 --> 01:00:23.594
But I think, you know, looking
right now at Cornwall, the flooding

01:00:23.954 --> 01:00:24.374
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:00:24.494 --> 01:00:25.664
Laura Chesterfield: Climate change.

01:00:25.784 --> 01:00:25.994
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:00:26.144 --> 01:00:27.704
Laura Chesterfield: It's, it's happened.

01:00:27.824 --> 01:00:28.694
It's happening.

01:00:28.694 --> 01:00:30.134
It's continuing to happen.

01:00:30.134 --> 01:00:32.474
We are all seeing the impact of that.

01:00:32.684 --> 01:00:33.284
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.

01:00:33.284 --> 01:00:35.764
I'm sitting here and we are experiencing.

01:00:36.574 --> 01:00:38.404
Biblical cataclysmic floods.

01:00:38.854 --> 01:00:39.154
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:00:39.154 --> 01:00:39.174
Yeah, yeah.

01:00:39.754 --> 01:00:42.784
And that is because, you know,
habitats are falling apart.

01:00:42.874 --> 01:00:48.064
Structures, roots, you know,
spaces in the natural world are

01:00:48.064 --> 01:00:49.834
not as they should be to cope

01:00:49.834 --> 01:00:49.924
with

01:00:50.344 --> 01:00:53.254
the level of water that
we're having for an example.

01:00:53.524 --> 01:00:56.734
So with beavers, you know, they,
they're creating these dams.

01:00:56.734 --> 01:01:00.004
They are responsible for stopping
flooding in certain places, right?

01:01:00.009 --> 01:01:04.684
They, they help to collect water that
then when you get the extra dry season,

01:01:04.834 --> 01:01:09.664
that water is in place and is making that
space where that water is more hydrated.

01:01:09.664 --> 01:01:11.524
You know, it just has
that knock on effect.

01:01:11.524 --> 01:01:15.724
So yeah, it's, you know, plus then you've
got all these other creatures, all these

01:01:15.724 --> 01:01:20.134
pollinators, you know, they're helping
to grow the food that, like the whole

01:01:20.134 --> 01:01:23.044
ecological system is all interlinked.

01:01:23.044 --> 01:01:26.524
You know, this, this isn't made
up bullshit that people just

01:01:26.524 --> 01:01:27.274
Rupert Isaacson: absolutely,

01:01:27.634 --> 01:01:28.174
Laura Chesterfield: you know, like.

01:01:28.749 --> 01:01:29.229
It's just

01:01:29.229 --> 01:01:30.429
Rupert Isaacson: no ab absolutely real.

01:01:31.149 --> 01:01:32.379
Laura Chesterfield: Like it's just real.

01:01:32.379 --> 01:01:35.139
Like everything has to
work in harmony together.

01:01:35.619 --> 01:01:38.859
Rupert Isaacson: Well it's, it is
really interesting that the recently,

01:01:38.949 --> 01:01:41.439
and I think you guys are real pioneers
with this, 'cause I think a couple of

01:01:41.439 --> 01:01:45.939
years after you did it, and there were
various other introductions around the uk

01:01:46.209 --> 01:01:46.389
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:01:46.459 --> 01:01:51.149
Rupert Isaacson: The London the
Greater London Council, GLC, is it

01:01:51.149 --> 01:01:55.379
still called the GLCI think it is has
introduced them into the Lee Valley,

01:01:55.589 --> 01:01:58.889
which is one of the watersheds,
main watersheds down into London.

01:01:58.889 --> 01:02:02.069
Be to control flooding in London.

01:02:02.069 --> 01:02:08.579
And then there was recently a big
flood containment project in the Czech

01:02:08.579 --> 01:02:16.649
Republic that they were funding had been
stalled and bureaucrat and red tape.

01:02:16.859 --> 01:02:18.689
And then they suddenly realized
they didn't have to do it

01:02:18.989 --> 01:02:19.739
because the beavers had.

01:02:21.189 --> 01:02:22.509
And the beavers have done it for free.

01:02:22.929 --> 01:02:23.289
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:02:23.379 --> 01:02:24.159
Rupert Isaacson: So, yeah.

01:02:24.909 --> 01:02:25.209
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:02:25.244 --> 01:02:25.804
Nature's

01:02:25.804 --> 01:02:28.059
Rupert Isaacson: not, so when you
say keystone species, I, I, I think

01:02:28.059 --> 01:02:32.289
that people sort of do need to
understand, you know, but it's really

01:02:32.289 --> 01:02:36.039
interesting though that you guys as
a garden, you know, some people say,

01:02:36.039 --> 01:02:37.359
well, are you an ornamental gardener?

01:02:37.359 --> 01:02:38.379
Are you a sculpture garden?

01:02:38.379 --> 01:02:39.609
Are you the jungle?

01:02:39.609 --> 01:02:44.469
Or you these wild species of
insects and beavers and things,

01:02:44.919 --> 01:02:46.059
as you say, you are all of it.

01:02:46.839 --> 01:02:46.899
Yeah.

01:02:47.589 --> 01:02:51.399
And then you come out of that
woodland area, that beautiful old

01:02:51.399 --> 01:02:54.579
ancient woodland that you've got
there, and then you're into that

01:02:54.579 --> 01:02:56.769
rare breeds form that you are, have.

01:02:57.009 --> 01:02:57.939
Tell us about that.

01:02:57.939 --> 01:03:01.749
Like, and, and why did your
dad get into rare breed?

01:03:01.779 --> 01:03:03.099
'cause he was a record producer.

01:03:03.129 --> 01:03:05.139
He was a, he was a mu, a music producer.

01:03:05.139 --> 01:03:07.749
He was living a very
different life in London.

01:03:07.749 --> 01:03:07.809
Yeah.

01:03:08.079 --> 01:03:11.739
How did he get outta that
and into nature and wine?

01:03:11.739 --> 01:03:13.869
And how was that for you as a kid too?

01:03:13.869 --> 01:03:17.349
You know, because you must have had
this sort of early London thing.

01:03:17.349 --> 01:03:19.569
And I also grew up
partly in Central London.

01:03:19.989 --> 01:03:25.659
I hated it, frankly, because kids
need nature, like they need oxygen.

01:03:26.109 --> 01:03:26.199
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:03:26.309 --> 01:03:29.549
Rupert Isaacson: So what, how is it
for you to escape that and the, the

01:03:29.549 --> 01:03:32.579
transformation you must have seen
your family and your dad make mm-hmm.

01:03:33.179 --> 01:03:37.379
You know, from that one life to
another life and now these rare breeds.

01:03:37.379 --> 01:03:40.079
Just, just talk us through
that evolution a little bit.

01:03:40.349 --> 01:03:40.739
Laura Chesterfield: Okay.

01:03:40.739 --> 01:03:41.924
So my dad.

01:03:42.704 --> 01:03:44.534
My dad's had many hats in his life.

01:03:44.534 --> 01:03:47.834
I think, you know, he's one of those
guys that he's curious about everything.

01:03:48.224 --> 01:03:51.224
He wants to meet everyone, he
wants to learn about everything.

01:03:51.224 --> 01:03:54.284
He's got that childish
kind of curiosity, I think.

01:03:54.724 --> 01:03:59.374
And so he's had a number of hats, a number
of different jobs, but I think as a kid,

01:03:59.374 --> 01:04:04.504
he was really connected to nature, you
know, and he, his fondest memories are of,

01:04:04.564 --> 01:04:08.944
you know, same as a lot of people looking
under rocks and looking for toads and, you

01:04:08.944 --> 01:04:12.934
know, looking for, looking for wildlife
and, and sort of hunting that down.

01:04:12.934 --> 01:04:16.264
He rode horses, he had
dogs, he had animals.

01:04:16.264 --> 01:04:18.304
He was out in nature and.

01:04:18.874 --> 01:04:24.124
Enabled to be connected to it, I suppose,
and, and very aware of how that made

01:04:24.124 --> 01:04:28.684
him feel and, and how he wanted that
in his life in one way or another.

01:04:28.684 --> 01:04:30.874
So he studied archeology.

01:04:31.084 --> 01:04:35.404
He also studied you know, he was a
deep sea diver at some point in his

01:04:35.404 --> 01:04:37.394
life and also a record producer.

01:04:37.394 --> 01:04:40.954
So he's sort of done all sorts
of different things in his world.

01:04:40.954 --> 01:04:42.934
And the rare Breeds thing was.

01:04:43.489 --> 01:04:44.749
Moving from London.

01:04:44.749 --> 01:04:47.659
I think I was about six when we
moved from Brixton, which was a

01:04:47.659 --> 01:04:49.339
very different place back then in

01:04:49.339 --> 01:04:50.989
Rupert Isaacson: which is
about as London as you can get.

01:04:50.989 --> 01:04:51.379
Yeah,

01:04:51.559 --> 01:04:52.489
Laura Chesterfield: it's proper London.

01:04:52.494 --> 01:04:52.604
Yeah.

01:04:52.609 --> 01:04:52.909
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:04:52.909 --> 01:04:53.089
Proper.

01:04:53.144 --> 01:04:53.484
It is.

01:04:54.504 --> 01:04:57.519
Laura Chesterfield: And was very different
in the eighties to what it is now.

01:04:58.179 --> 01:04:58.239
Yeah.

01:04:58.239 --> 01:04:58.719
Brixton.

01:04:58.724 --> 01:04:58.804
Yeah.

01:04:58.804 --> 01:04:58.884
It

01:04:58.889 --> 01:04:59.319
Rupert Isaacson: was rough.

01:04:59.709 --> 01:05:00.609
Laura Chesterfield: It was rough.

01:05:00.609 --> 01:05:01.809
It was not place.

01:05:01.809 --> 01:05:06.999
I don't have I don't have un fond memories
of it, you know, and, and regularly we

01:05:06.999 --> 01:05:11.739
were in parks and we were in gardens
and we had pets and you know, I think

01:05:11.979 --> 01:05:14.049
both my parents were very much sort of.

01:05:14.724 --> 01:05:16.704
In tune with the natural world.

01:05:17.094 --> 01:05:20.574
And, but we came down and
visited a place called Foy when

01:05:20.604 --> 01:05:21.924
I must have been about six.

01:05:21.924 --> 01:05:26.364
And I think, you know, my parents just
fell in love with Cornwall and decided

01:05:26.364 --> 01:05:30.294
actually this is where we want our kids to
grow up, you know, on the beach crabbing

01:05:30.294 --> 01:05:36.474
off of, you know, the key and, you know,
fishing and, you know, walking footpaths,

01:05:37.044 --> 01:05:40.794
naming wild flowers, all of those sorts of
things I have such memories of as a kid.

01:05:41.274 --> 01:05:44.424
So yeah, really fortunate that that
was the decision that they made.

01:05:44.604 --> 01:05:49.254
And they bought this big old
farmhouse, moved from Brixton down to

01:05:49.254 --> 01:05:52.374
a tiny little village called Goran,
which is right on the coast near.

01:05:53.634 --> 01:05:57.024
And, you know, we lived at, we lived
at a farm but didn't own the farm.

01:05:57.024 --> 01:06:00.684
We lived in a farmhouse, we had a little
bit of land, and so our childhoods

01:06:00.684 --> 01:06:05.934
were just built around, you know,
having animals going to the beach.

01:06:06.279 --> 01:06:10.869
Growing food, building tree
houses, you know, making apple

01:06:10.869 --> 01:06:12.189
pies out of blackberries.

01:06:12.189 --> 01:06:16.479
We just foraged, you know, it was really
picturesque and really very beautiful

01:06:16.479 --> 01:06:17.589
and we didn't have a lot of money.

01:06:17.589 --> 01:06:19.329
It wasn't based on money whatsoever.

01:06:19.329 --> 01:06:22.674
You know, it's, there's a lot of
assumptions when you sort of, people

01:06:22.674 --> 01:06:25.434
see the success my father has had.

01:06:25.434 --> 01:06:30.174
They make assumptions about fin
finance and about people's experiences.

01:06:30.174 --> 01:06:33.384
And actually we, we
never had a lot of money.

01:06:33.384 --> 01:06:36.054
And money doesn't motivate us to this day.

01:06:36.324 --> 01:06:38.719
You know, it's, it's
not about that at all.

01:06:38.964 --> 01:06:43.284
And I think growing up we used our
imaginations, we played outside, we had

01:06:43.284 --> 01:06:45.264
animals, we had bikes, we had the beach.

01:06:45.264 --> 01:06:47.874
We, you know, and our, and our
parents were very present in that.

01:06:47.874 --> 01:06:48.479
And we read a lot.

01:06:48.654 --> 01:06:53.154
And so when GaN came along, the rare
breeds thing was actually about going

01:06:53.154 --> 01:06:57.744
to the Royal Cornwall Show and going
to the rare breeds Farm Park Tent,

01:06:57.774 --> 01:07:02.864
which was hosted by the rare breeds
Survival Trust, who are still a

01:07:02.864 --> 01:07:07.064
really successful charity, championing
those heritage breeds here in the uk.

01:07:07.544 --> 01:07:11.594
And we went to that tent and you know,
the diversity of seeing all of these

01:07:11.594 --> 01:07:15.794
animals that were not what you read about
in, you know, in Charlotte's Web, for

01:07:15.794 --> 01:07:20.624
example, which was my favorite book, you
know, pigs are not all pink, sheep are

01:07:20.624 --> 01:07:22.724
not all white and looking like clouds.

01:07:22.934 --> 01:07:27.824
And actually to go to this bury tent
and see, you know, polka dot pigs and

01:07:27.854 --> 01:07:32.354
you know, sheep with horns up to here
and you know, all these different breeds

01:07:32.354 --> 01:07:37.094
and they were so colorful and so diverse
and all had stories attached to them

01:07:37.094 --> 01:07:38.894
that it just captured our imaginations.

01:07:38.894 --> 01:07:42.854
And pigs have been a bit of a running
theme in our family, have just.

01:07:43.344 --> 01:07:44.274
Just, we just like them.

01:07:44.694 --> 01:07:45.774
I can't say more than that.

01:07:45.984 --> 01:07:47.124
We just like pigs.

01:07:47.244 --> 01:07:48.414
Pigs are so intelligent.

01:07:48.414 --> 01:07:48.969
They're so far.

01:07:48.969 --> 01:07:49.249
Yeah.

01:07:49.249 --> 01:07:50.694
They're just, oh, adore them.

01:07:51.084 --> 01:07:54.644
So, we went about adopting
some pigs from Newy Zoo.

01:07:55.024 --> 01:07:59.614
And they came to live on our farm with us,
Horace and Doris, and they were our pets.

01:07:59.614 --> 01:08:03.404
And I used to walk one of the pigs
to school with me and then mum would

01:08:03.404 --> 01:08:07.154
walk at home 'cause I'd have to go
to class and sort of, you know, you

01:08:07.154 --> 01:08:08.749
Rupert Isaacson: weren't allowed
to Your emotional support

01:08:08.769 --> 01:08:09.309
Laura Chesterfield: pig in class.

01:08:09.374 --> 01:08:11.264
Yeah, my emotional support
pig was not allowed in class.

01:08:11.594 --> 01:08:15.384
So, so animals had always kind
of been within our family.

01:08:15.384 --> 01:08:19.285
And then when, when dad was, you know,
part of the restoration at Halligan,

01:08:19.285 --> 01:08:23.094
he'd obviously been on a search for
a location for the rare, rare breed

01:08:23.094 --> 01:08:25.404
farm park that he wanted to start.

01:08:25.914 --> 01:08:31.074
He got a bit distracted by heli and, you
know, all the stories that I've just told

01:08:31.074 --> 01:08:33.084
you that were more kind of people based.

01:08:33.535 --> 01:08:36.654
But when I then came to work at Halligan.

01:08:37.160 --> 01:08:40.969
They decided that they wanted to start
the restoration of the landscape and

01:08:40.969 --> 01:08:44.899
the estate more so, you know, they've
been very focused on the walled garden,

01:08:44.899 --> 01:08:47.990
the ornamental gardens, the jungle
up until that point, but actually the

01:08:47.990 --> 01:08:52.819
wider estate and, and the, the, the
fields and the pasture land and stuff,

01:08:52.819 --> 01:08:54.620
those stories hadn't really been told.

01:08:55.160 --> 01:09:00.019
And so they wanted to do a focus on
the animals and bringing in the native

01:09:00.019 --> 01:09:05.299
breeds and, and telling that kind of
farm to fork plate in a different way.

01:09:05.299 --> 01:09:08.750
So that was the first job I had
coming to Halligan, was to finally

01:09:08.750 --> 01:09:12.529
start my dad's rare breed farm,
which, you know, took 30 years.

01:09:13.099 --> 01:09:16.160
But it was, it was an amazing
thing because I think,

01:09:16.160 --> 01:09:17.990
'cause I already understood.

01:09:18.664 --> 01:09:21.604
Animals in the sense of storytelling.

01:09:21.914 --> 01:09:26.024
You know, the emotional impact that I
personally had from being around animals.

01:09:26.024 --> 01:09:28.094
You know, I studied
horses at Dutchie College.

01:09:28.094 --> 01:09:29.504
I studied yard management.

01:09:29.834 --> 01:09:31.004
I loved animals.

01:09:31.004 --> 01:09:31.844
I rode horses.

01:09:31.844 --> 01:09:33.164
I competed horses.

01:09:33.464 --> 01:09:36.164
We had every kind of animal at
home growing up, you know, like I

01:09:36.164 --> 01:09:39.854
say, pigs in the kitchen, hatching
chickens and incubators In my

01:09:39.854 --> 01:09:44.924
bedroom, we took on a, you know,
orphaned lambs and every poultry.

01:09:44.924 --> 01:09:48.554
And so I was very blessed that that
was kind of the childhood I had.

01:09:48.984 --> 01:09:51.024
And felt very connected to animals.

01:09:51.024 --> 01:09:54.684
So I realized when I was then in a
professional sense, that actually.

01:09:55.215 --> 01:09:58.815
So many, so many people, it's
not just kids do not have

01:09:58.815 --> 01:10:00.315
that connection with animals.

01:10:00.315 --> 01:10:02.625
Maybe because they don't have the
opportunity to, you know, they don't,

01:10:02.955 --> 01:10:06.795
not everyone grows up on a farm, and if
you, especially on holiday in Cornwall,

01:10:06.795 --> 01:10:10.845
maybe have come from London or wherever
else, you, you don't see sheep and

01:10:10.845 --> 01:10:15.105
pigs every day and you don't have that
understanding or that empathy or, you

01:10:15.105 --> 01:10:16.724
know, so it's another world, isn't it?

01:10:16.724 --> 01:10:21.735
So having the berries, farm park
had a number of layers attached

01:10:21.735 --> 01:10:22.905
to it, I suppose is how I see it.

01:10:22.905 --> 01:10:26.385
So you've got the basic layer
of engagement with cute animals,

01:10:26.385 --> 01:10:29.775
which absolutely works for people
on a real basic level of seeing

01:10:29.775 --> 01:10:31.065
baby animals running around.

01:10:31.485 --> 01:10:35.535
But it enabled us to tell stories
of conservation through consumption,

01:10:35.715 --> 01:10:40.394
where your food comes from, how you
look after animals and livestock, how,

01:10:40.485 --> 01:10:43.905
you know, how often people eat meat
and where they get their meat from.

01:10:44.385 --> 01:10:46.005
Where does their meat grow?

01:10:46.155 --> 01:10:49.005
How is that grown in harmony
with the environment?

01:10:49.005 --> 01:10:49.255
And so.

01:10:49.900 --> 01:10:55.269
It is enabled us to just have this
wonderful way of telling stories to

01:10:55.269 --> 01:10:59.920
different audiences in different ways at
different depths and, and mainly to tell

01:10:59.920 --> 01:11:05.019
the story of, you know, of the estate, you
know, and it is managed by our livestock

01:11:05.080 --> 01:11:09.519
and, you know, regenerative grazing,
you know, it's quite a recent term.

01:11:09.519 --> 01:11:12.790
It's really well known now, but
probably 10 years ago, not so much.

01:11:13.269 --> 01:11:17.110
And, and we, you know, we were
really passionate about trying it

01:11:17.110 --> 01:11:19.269
and I think what we've done quite
well at Halligan is that we never

01:11:19.269 --> 01:11:20.710
said we were the experts in it.

01:11:21.070 --> 01:11:23.290
We didn't know what would happen
when we did it, whether it be

01:11:23.290 --> 01:11:25.894
successful, whether it be too hard,
whether it, you know, what, what,

01:11:26.410 --> 01:11:27.549
what the outcomes that would be.

01:11:27.910 --> 01:11:29.980
But we quite enjoy sharing our trying.

01:11:30.070 --> 01:11:31.960
Same as with the
reintroduction of beavers.

01:11:32.200 --> 01:11:33.280
Let's give it a go.

01:11:33.490 --> 01:11:38.860
Let's collectively give this a
go, see how it works, share our

01:11:38.860 --> 01:11:43.179
successes, share our challenges, and
be kind of a platform for sharing.

01:11:44.199 --> 01:11:47.650
You know, how, how we might
approach problems as a society.

01:11:47.829 --> 01:11:50.199
Rupert Isaacson: Tell us, talk
me through regenerative grazing.

01:11:50.329 --> 01:11:51.109
How does it work?

01:11:51.439 --> 01:11:52.039
How do you do it?

01:11:52.429 --> 01:11:55.179
Laura Chesterfield: So, regenerative
grazing, mob grazing, there's different

01:11:55.179 --> 01:11:57.969
sort of terms depending on exactly
how you're doing it, what animals

01:11:57.969 --> 01:11:59.409
you're, you are using for that.

01:11:59.409 --> 01:12:03.529
So we, we've got what's
called a flud which is.

01:12:04.160 --> 01:12:06.470
A flock and a herd combined.

01:12:06.470 --> 01:12:08.720
So your, your sheep and your cattle.

01:12:09.410 --> 01:12:09.440
Okay.

01:12:09.445 --> 01:12:11.240
And, and they graze together.

01:12:11.615 --> 01:12:15.650
And, and what we do is we basically,
we, we graze 'em in one area and

01:12:15.650 --> 01:12:17.510
then we move them the next day.

01:12:17.510 --> 01:12:17.600
Right.

01:12:17.960 --> 01:12:20.900
So you're trying to, you're
trying to copycat if they were

01:12:20.900 --> 01:12:24.050
wild, how wild animals graze.

01:12:24.080 --> 01:12:24.140
Yeah.

01:12:24.230 --> 01:12:28.130
So wild animals do not just stay
in the same bit of grassland until

01:12:28.130 --> 01:12:33.110
it's bare and raw and empty of
nutrients and mud up to their knees.

01:12:33.110 --> 01:12:36.500
They tend to go, you know,
they graze a wider area.

01:12:36.500 --> 01:12:40.610
They seek the nutrition, they seek
the goodness for their bodies.

01:12:40.820 --> 01:12:42.170
So we try to.

01:12:42.919 --> 01:12:48.139
Imitate that, you know, we are managing
that of course, because they're not wild

01:12:48.139 --> 01:12:50.059
as in, you know, they are contained.

01:12:50.399 --> 01:12:54.359
But by moving them every single
day to a new area, you are enabling

01:12:54.839 --> 01:12:58.559
the habitat they're in to be
grazed in a much more natural way.

01:12:58.559 --> 01:13:02.609
So they will in and they will
graze the, the level of the grasses

01:13:02.609 --> 01:13:06.719
that they want to leaving other
grasses, their feet will trample

01:13:06.989 --> 01:13:09.239
the soil in a much more natural way.

01:13:09.239 --> 01:13:12.989
So rather than overgrazing it and
compacting it, they're actually opening

01:13:12.989 --> 01:13:17.729
up the soil so that then when it rains,
the rain actually goes into the soil,

01:13:17.849 --> 01:13:20.819
helps the plants to grow, keeps it,
you know, so it's, again, it's about

01:13:20.819 --> 01:13:25.589
that harmonious cycle within the
natural world, enabling that to happen.

01:13:25.829 --> 01:13:29.729
So we can then see the impact of that, you
know, and, and how easy that is to manage.

01:13:29.729 --> 01:13:31.919
And does that take more resource?

01:13:31.919 --> 01:13:35.129
Is there a reason we're not doing this
anymore because it takes more staff and

01:13:35.129 --> 01:13:38.009
more fencing and more, or is it actually.

01:13:38.609 --> 01:13:39.959
Having amazing impacts.

01:13:39.959 --> 01:13:43.379
And, and what we've seen is it has great
impacts, you know, and that actually,

01:13:43.379 --> 01:13:47.489
if you do it correctly, you can, you
can rest certain fields and make your

01:13:47.489 --> 01:13:51.359
haze, you've got a bit more forest for
your animals at different times of year.

01:13:51.359 --> 01:13:55.589
And in winter, they, they have been
bought in far less into the barns

01:13:55.589 --> 01:13:59.729
because we've actually had better
pasture land that's remaining healthy.

01:14:00.029 --> 01:14:03.359
That's regenerating itself where,
you know, we're seeing far more

01:14:03.359 --> 01:14:06.199
species of birds and other insects.

01:14:06.199 --> 01:14:10.159
And then we're getting, you know, when we
are then doing our observations of levels

01:14:10.159 --> 01:14:13.759
of how many owls we've got, or we're doing
our back counts and, and things like that.

01:14:13.764 --> 01:14:15.349
The, the levels are going up.

01:14:15.349 --> 01:14:18.769
You know, we have like the Moth Society
come in for a night and they'll capture

01:14:18.769 --> 01:14:22.069
all the different varieties of moths
and, and they're a really good gauge of,

01:14:22.069 --> 01:14:23.839
you know, how biodiverse is this space.

01:14:23.869 --> 01:14:25.399
There's loads of moths as a really good.

01:14:25.714 --> 01:14:25.775
Mm.

01:14:26.525 --> 01:14:28.294
Good idea that it's a
really healthy space.

01:14:28.294 --> 01:14:32.074
So you can see that it's having
a great impact on nature.

01:14:32.464 --> 01:14:36.454
And I think for us, if you can
demonstrate that the meat that maybe

01:14:36.454 --> 01:14:42.514
ends up on the menu, that actually
the job of those animals has not been

01:14:42.514 --> 01:14:46.714
primarily to end up on your plate,
their job has been to manage the land,

01:14:46.954 --> 01:14:51.964
to do that in a really healthy way
for the future, that's sustainable.

01:14:52.414 --> 01:14:52.504
Mm-hmm.

01:14:52.594 --> 01:14:54.874
A lot more people these days,
they wanna get behind that.

01:14:54.874 --> 01:14:58.174
They wanna feel like they're investing
their money into eating meat that has

01:14:58.174 --> 01:15:01.264
been ethically grown, that is having
a really great impact on the planet.

01:15:01.684 --> 01:15:06.494
So trying to tell those stories but
seeing it in motion rather than, again,

01:15:06.584 --> 01:15:12.414
a sign or a menu, actually seeing that
you know, is really mixed opinions, but

01:15:12.414 --> 01:15:16.164
we are really kind of proud of that and,
and it opens up those conversations.

01:15:17.214 --> 01:15:17.544
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:15:17.904 --> 01:15:20.454
Tell us about, okay, so you, you
also mentioned your horsey side

01:15:20.514 --> 01:15:21.414
of life and it's interesting.

01:15:21.414 --> 01:15:22.674
That's one, that's the one.

01:15:23.319 --> 01:15:25.539
Part of heli that, you know,
I'm a horseman, obviously.

01:15:25.759 --> 01:15:25.939
Laura Chesterfield: Are

01:15:25.939 --> 01:15:26.604
Rupert Isaacson: you, I look around it.

01:15:26.624 --> 01:15:26.844
You

01:15:26.844 --> 01:15:27.284
Laura Chesterfield: got a horse?

01:15:27.314 --> 01:15:28.004
Have you got a horse?

01:15:29.839 --> 01:15:31.039
Rupert Isaacson: And you
know, I look at heli.

01:15:31.219 --> 01:15:32.929
Oh, it'd be nice to have some horses here.

01:15:33.199 --> 01:15:36.859
And of course, for a while you did have,
you know, a couple of shires draft horses.

01:15:36.859 --> 01:15:39.734
But tell us about your horsey
life and how do you feel, you

01:15:39.734 --> 01:15:41.029
know, you went and studied it too.

01:15:41.029 --> 01:15:42.559
You didn't just do it recreationally.

01:15:42.889 --> 01:15:46.039
Talk us through that and, and how
do you feel that's impacted your,

01:15:46.549 --> 01:15:51.739
your particularly I'm, I'm, I'm,
I'm quite intrigued by what horses

01:15:51.739 --> 01:15:53.449
teach people in terms of leadership.

01:15:53.829 --> 01:15:57.639
And I, because, you know, I've grown
up around very, very, very horsey

01:15:57.639 --> 01:16:03.279
women, so I've never understood why
anyone ever had a problem with like.

01:16:04.494 --> 01:16:07.674
Women bosses or women leadership or
whatever, because I just always grew

01:16:07.674 --> 01:16:11.604
up with these incredibly strong women
who were natural leaders who were

01:16:11.604 --> 01:16:15.714
always in these leadership positions
and you just deferred to them because

01:16:15.714 --> 01:16:18.864
they had the expertise and they
cut your head off if you didn't.

01:16:19.044 --> 01:16:23.274
So, I'd like to hear a little bit about
this from your point of view, because this

01:16:23.274 --> 01:16:26.904
was also part of forming your worldview
that's ended up with the halligan thing.

01:16:27.239 --> 01:16:27.459
Laura Chesterfield: Mm.

01:16:28.464 --> 01:16:29.364
Rupert Isaacson: Tell us your whole story.

01:16:29.604 --> 01:16:31.374
Laura Chesterfield: No, it's
really that, that's my management

01:16:31.374 --> 01:16:32.964
style is chopping the's heads off.

01:16:32.994 --> 01:16:33.174
Yeah,

01:16:33.179 --> 01:16:34.059
Rupert Isaacson: that's you all the way.

01:16:34.254 --> 01:16:34.554
That's right.

01:16:34.554 --> 01:16:35.184
Laura Chesterfield: Me every day.

01:16:35.184 --> 01:16:37.224
Rupert Isaacson: Well, you give
them a chance at first before you

01:16:37.764 --> 01:16:39.864
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah, no, I think
it's really interesting, isn't it?

01:16:39.864 --> 01:16:44.004
Like I talk, I talk a lot to people
about relationships with nature,

01:16:44.064 --> 01:16:47.784
you know, and, and how to, you know,
there's, there's a, there's ongoing

01:16:47.784 --> 01:16:50.814
conversation everywhere I go, you
know, how do we get people into nature?

01:16:50.814 --> 01:16:53.784
How do we get people to spend more
time in nature for their wellbeing,

01:16:54.174 --> 01:16:57.504
for, you know, for, to feel better and.

01:16:58.674 --> 01:17:01.884
People try and turn it into something
that's all about retreats and

01:17:01.884 --> 01:17:04.344
that you've gotta basically have
a bank balance to be well or to

01:17:04.344 --> 01:17:05.904
be healthy or, or whatever else.

01:17:05.904 --> 01:17:08.124
Yeah, actually I just
think that's bollocks.

01:17:08.124 --> 01:17:10.014
I just think wellbeing is for everybody.

01:17:10.014 --> 01:17:10.104
Mm-hmm.

01:17:10.824 --> 01:17:12.744
And having a relationship with
nature is something people

01:17:12.744 --> 01:17:14.004
have gotta find themselves.

01:17:14.274 --> 01:17:19.194
So, you know, trying to
wellbeing as an outcome rather

01:17:19.194 --> 01:17:20.934
than a, an advertised thing.

01:17:20.934 --> 01:17:24.744
So GaN is very much about, you know,
that's the outcome and that's my viewpoint

01:17:24.744 --> 01:17:26.064
as well, is that you just feel better.

01:17:26.094 --> 01:17:29.034
You come to Halligan, you go and
have a walk around, you have a play,

01:17:29.034 --> 01:17:31.854
you eat something nice, you see
something amazing, you switch off.

01:17:32.094 --> 01:17:33.264
The outcome is that you feel better.

01:17:33.264 --> 01:17:36.084
We don't advertise it that way
because that kind of removes it.

01:17:36.654 --> 01:17:37.105
But I think

01:17:37.105 --> 01:17:37.704
I I hear you.

01:17:37.855 --> 01:17:38.124
Yeah.

01:17:38.124 --> 01:17:38.364
You know what I mean?

01:17:38.364 --> 01:17:41.394
So, but for me, with horses that was.

01:17:41.949 --> 01:17:44.440
I've always had a relationship
with animals, felt very attuned and

01:17:44.440 --> 01:17:46.209
comfortable and confident around animals.

01:17:46.209 --> 01:17:48.610
And I think that's, you know, something
I certainly inherit from my dad.

01:17:49.119 --> 01:17:54.879
And my relationship with nature was mainly
about going out, hacking on my pony before

01:17:54.879 --> 01:17:58.599
the days of having a mobile phone where
you were going out safely on your pony and

01:17:58.599 --> 01:18:03.159
someone knew where you were, was actually
getting on my pony and off we went.

01:18:03.159 --> 01:18:07.299
And, you know, whether we were going off
across a beach or up across a woodland

01:18:07.299 --> 01:18:09.219
or in a farmer's field or up a track.

01:18:09.579 --> 01:18:14.530
And that feeling of adventure on my pony
of where are we, what's our story today?

01:18:14.530 --> 01:18:15.789
You know, where are we going?

01:18:16.389 --> 01:18:19.809
And, and he was my trustee guide,
you know, and I'd probably like a

01:18:19.809 --> 01:18:24.039
lot of horsey people share all of my
world worldly secrets with my pony.

01:18:24.409 --> 01:18:25.759
And he never told a soul.

01:18:26.334 --> 01:18:29.360
And, and, and, and it's true.

01:18:29.360 --> 01:18:31.009
It's like, it, it's therapy, isn't it?

01:18:31.429 --> 01:18:33.949
But it's, it's, it's one
of those things where.

01:18:34.259 --> 01:18:37.199
When you're younger, you don't necessarily
understand the science of it in the

01:18:37.199 --> 01:18:41.070
way that you so eloquently talk about,
but I think I just knew every time

01:18:41.070 --> 01:18:42.749
I went horse riding, I felt good.

01:18:44.105 --> 01:18:49.384
I, I'd come away and I would feel
great and I'd feel great mentally.

01:18:49.384 --> 01:18:51.964
I'd feel good physically, and, and
I'd have had fun, you know, there

01:18:51.964 --> 01:18:53.315
was recreation involved a bit.

01:18:53.614 --> 01:18:56.704
And that was my relationship with
nature because then when I was out on

01:18:56.704 --> 01:19:00.724
my hacks on the, on the horse, I would
notice the seasons changing, you know?

01:19:01.084 --> 01:19:03.904
Because if you got horses, as you
know, as opposed, probably most

01:19:03.904 --> 01:19:05.254
of your audience are very aware.

01:19:05.764 --> 01:19:07.024
Every season you're out there.

01:19:07.024 --> 01:19:07.954
Twice a day, you're out there

01:19:08.554 --> 01:19:08.644
Rupert Isaacson: and

01:19:09.454 --> 01:19:11.254
Laura Chesterfield: you love
it, whatever's going on.

01:19:13.355 --> 01:19:16.864
So you notice when you're an outside
person like that, you notice the seasons

01:19:16.864 --> 01:19:20.644
change and you really notice those
intricate details of, I said to my husband

01:19:20.674 --> 01:19:21.754
this morning, we were walking the dog.

01:19:21.754 --> 01:19:24.664
I was like, look, all of
the snow drops are out.

01:19:24.724 --> 01:19:24.964
You know?

01:19:24.964 --> 01:19:28.744
And you notice those moments in
the year that kind of give joy or

01:19:28.744 --> 01:19:32.464
give those anchoring moments of,
okay, spring is coming, it's okay.

01:19:32.794 --> 01:19:35.944
You know, we are, we're not stuck
in this winter of storms forever.

01:19:36.304 --> 01:19:39.154
And I think horse riding
gave me that of noticing.

01:19:40.804 --> 01:19:46.294
Birds, berries, wildlife, newborn lambs
in the fields, far more cars 'cause the

01:19:46.294 --> 01:19:48.694
tourists were here, so it must be summer.

01:19:48.944 --> 01:19:53.114
You know, so you notice everything
from that, from that bird's eye view.

01:19:53.474 --> 01:19:57.344
And so for me, I mean, that's where my
relationship with nature started probably,

01:19:57.344 --> 01:19:59.414
but with horses was from that point.

01:19:59.444 --> 01:20:05.624
And, you know, I was very lucky that I, I
was bought a pony by my dad when I was 15,

01:20:06.014 --> 01:20:12.164
you know, and I'd spent six years having
to prove to him that I would go out in

01:20:12.164 --> 01:20:13.964
all weathers before he would buy me one.

01:20:13.964 --> 01:20:18.524
And so going at the local stables and the
local farmer and mucking out their horses

01:20:18.524 --> 01:20:22.424
and, you know, proving that I was an all
weather girl and that this was for me.

01:20:22.874 --> 01:20:27.704
And got bought my pony Tyson when
I was 15 and, and he was four.

01:20:28.214 --> 01:20:29.624
And it was love at first sight.

01:20:30.299 --> 01:20:31.829
And he was a pain in the ass.

01:20:31.829 --> 01:20:33.209
You know, he was a Welsh section D.

01:20:33.749 --> 01:20:34.739
He was beautiful.

01:20:34.739 --> 01:20:39.359
He knew it, he was wild, but he was
kind of heart, but he was strong.

01:20:39.659 --> 01:20:44.219
And I think, you know, you, as soon as
you start that new relationship, you,

01:20:44.339 --> 01:20:46.589
you get some respect for one another.

01:20:46.589 --> 01:20:49.499
And you have to find that,
that place don't you?

01:20:49.499 --> 01:20:53.609
Of I know how to keep you safe and I know
you are gonna keep me safe, but I also

01:20:53.609 --> 01:20:55.379
know how to read if you are not okay.

01:20:55.379 --> 01:20:59.219
And you might read if I'm not okay and you
know, you are waiting for me to come and

01:20:59.219 --> 01:21:01.649
give you your hay on a day where the snow.

01:21:01.649 --> 01:21:05.999
And equally, I'm waiting for you to
keep me safe when you, you know, we

01:21:05.999 --> 01:21:08.759
go somewhere and something spooks
you and you're gonna look after me.

01:21:08.759 --> 01:21:10.944
And that growing, that relationship was.

01:21:11.669 --> 01:21:15.480
The most important thing, and you know,
other than my, you know, children, the

01:21:15.480 --> 01:21:19.079
most important relationship I've ever
had, and, you know, the day that I

01:21:19.079 --> 01:21:24.749
had to actually have him put to sleep
23 years later was still goes down

01:21:24.749 --> 01:21:28.079
in history as absolutely, without a
doubt, the worst day of my entire life.

01:21:28.679 --> 01:21:32.579
And that's because he represented
to me, you know, that relationship.

01:21:33.089 --> 01:21:33.509
But.

01:21:34.334 --> 01:21:40.214
He represented hobbies, he represented
fitness, he represented like my mental

01:21:40.214 --> 01:21:44.324
health and how I kept my mental health
good was riding, hacking, grooming, being

01:21:44.324 --> 01:21:46.304
in a stable with him, all of those things.

01:21:46.634 --> 01:21:51.044
So it wasn't just losing your
pet or your rec, you know,

01:21:51.044 --> 01:21:52.334
just go and get another one.

01:21:52.334 --> 01:21:53.864
And I was like, no, can't do it.

01:21:53.864 --> 01:21:54.494
Never do it.

01:21:54.854 --> 01:21:59.804
But that, you know, that definitely
that respectful relationship.

01:22:00.074 --> 01:22:04.184
Trying to come back to one part of your
question about leadership was, was that

01:22:04.184 --> 01:22:07.844
you gotta work with people, you know,
you've gotta use your strengths alongside

01:22:07.844 --> 01:22:11.949
other people's strengths, and you've also
gotta be really confident when it's hard.

01:22:12.194 --> 01:22:16.334
You know, sometimes your horse needs
to be told and needs to learn, and

01:22:16.334 --> 01:22:21.104
needs, needs to be led, and needs
to, to be taught things equally.

01:22:21.104 --> 01:22:23.744
You've gotta be open to
listening and hearing what's.

01:22:24.074 --> 01:22:25.724
Being told from the other perspective?

01:22:25.724 --> 01:22:26.564
I suppose so

01:22:26.614 --> 01:22:26.964
Rupert Isaacson: right.

01:22:27.364 --> 01:22:30.539
I I, I'm a great believer too that,
you know, we talk about nature a lot

01:22:30.599 --> 01:22:34.429
and one of the, but one of the things
which has removed people from nature

01:22:35.689 --> 01:22:41.629
and now I think affect how people relate
to nature is that nature is dangerous.

01:22:41.659 --> 01:22:41.689
Mm.

01:22:42.109 --> 01:22:43.579
It's supposed to be.

01:22:43.609 --> 01:22:43.879
Right.

01:22:43.879 --> 01:22:46.669
And we are, because there is an ecosystem.

01:22:46.759 --> 01:22:48.049
Those things eat other things.

01:22:48.379 --> 01:22:51.439
And we of course are not top of the tree.

01:22:51.439 --> 01:22:53.359
We are mid-level predators.

01:22:53.359 --> 01:22:56.389
There are things out there that
eat us only when we get together

01:22:56.389 --> 01:23:00.049
with this larynx and strategized
together, do we become top predator.

01:23:00.049 --> 01:23:03.529
And obviously we've been a
bit too successful at that.

01:23:03.979 --> 01:23:08.299
But it means to, I, I often feel that
when people now want to reconnect with

01:23:08.299 --> 01:23:12.199
nature, there's one really important
element that they miss, which is danger.

01:23:12.709 --> 01:23:15.649
You have to have risk because
we're hunter-gatherers.

01:23:15.679 --> 01:23:18.829
We are designed to deal
with this all the time.

01:23:18.979 --> 01:23:20.089
And of course, with horses.

01:23:21.349 --> 01:23:22.459
The risk is inherent.

01:23:23.059 --> 01:23:23.389
Laura Chesterfield: Mm-hmm.

01:23:23.459 --> 01:23:25.439
Rupert Isaacson: As you may know,
if you've been following my work,

01:23:25.469 --> 01:23:27.869
we are also horsey folk here.

01:23:28.374 --> 01:23:32.864
And we have been training horses for
many, many years in the manner of

01:23:32.914 --> 01:23:36.074
the old classical dressage masters.

01:23:36.504 --> 01:23:39.294
This is something which is
often very confusing for people.

01:23:39.684 --> 01:23:44.684
We shine a light on that murky, difficult
stuff and make it crystal clear.

01:23:44.944 --> 01:23:49.774
If you'd like to learn to train your
horse in the manner of the old masters and

01:23:49.774 --> 01:23:55.574
really have fun and joy for you and your
equine, go to our website, heliosharmony.

01:23:55.574 --> 01:23:57.904
com Sign up as a premium member.

01:23:58.224 --> 01:24:02.234
and begin to take the Helios Harmony
course, which will take you from zero

01:24:02.704 --> 01:24:07.834
to the Piaf, where the horse is dancing
on the spot in hand on the ground.

01:24:08.424 --> 01:24:12.134
And then from there, you can
develop out to anywhere you want to.

01:24:13.094 --> 01:24:13.834
Heliosharmony.

01:24:14.344 --> 01:24:18.014
com to unlock the secrets
of the old masters.

01:24:18.419 --> 01:24:20.159
The danger is there all the time.

01:24:20.489 --> 01:24:24.029
Talk to me about that, a little
bit, about your, your relationship

01:24:24.029 --> 01:24:25.889
with the natural world.

01:24:25.889 --> 01:24:27.929
Danger, courage.

01:24:29.399 --> 01:24:30.239
Yeah.

01:24:30.239 --> 01:24:33.509
This and how this forms the human
mind, but the, the horse, the

01:24:33.629 --> 01:24:36.689
very specific, the way horses
interact with nature themselves.

01:24:36.689 --> 01:24:39.869
'cause they're pre species, you
know, so they spook, but they're

01:24:39.869 --> 01:24:41.489
also way what a car weighs.

01:24:41.489 --> 01:24:46.019
So if they spook on us, that's
not great for, you know, J Ex.

01:24:46.199 --> 01:24:47.429
Just explore this a little bit.

01:24:47.429 --> 01:24:48.839
I'd be interested to know your thoughts.

01:24:50.189 --> 01:24:51.359
Laura Chesterfield: It's an
interesting one, isn't it?

01:24:51.359 --> 01:24:55.694
I think I, most people I
know that, you know, do.

01:24:57.314 --> 01:25:00.494
Connect with nature through
a sport, shall we say.

01:25:00.734 --> 01:25:00.824
Mm-hmm.

01:25:00.824 --> 01:25:02.804
It's usually because there
is that danger, isn't it?

01:25:02.804 --> 01:25:07.214
So if I was, I was listening yesterday to
this amazing female surfer that has just

01:25:07.484 --> 01:25:11.234
surfed the, the, is it the biggest wave of
all time, or the biggest wave this year?

01:25:11.234 --> 01:25:13.244
Or, or, you know, so it
was on in the background.

01:25:13.244 --> 01:25:16.484
I was watching her and, you know,
she was talking about that emotional

01:25:16.484 --> 01:25:20.954
relationship and that respect of fear
and danger and that actually that's

01:25:20.954 --> 01:25:24.404
what makes her feel part of nature
and makes her feel alive the most.

01:25:24.464 --> 01:25:24.554
Mm-hmm.

01:25:25.154 --> 01:25:28.934
I think, you know, there's, people
talk about that a lot, don't they?

01:25:28.934 --> 01:25:34.874
That, that, that element of risk is,
it makes you feel alive because that, I

01:25:34.874 --> 01:25:39.464
guess, you know, being hunter-gatherers,
we would've way back when lived in a

01:25:39.464 --> 01:25:43.694
cave, had to deal with the elements,
had to deal with risk far less risk

01:25:43.694 --> 01:25:45.554
managed than in today's day and age.

01:25:45.554 --> 01:25:47.744
So I guess, you know, it makes
us feel more human, doesn't it?

01:25:47.804 --> 01:25:48.134
But,

01:25:48.374 --> 01:25:48.614
mm-hmm.

01:25:48.794 --> 01:25:50.114
I think horses.

01:25:52.514 --> 01:25:56.024
Is that there is that element of danger,
and it is exci, it is exciting, but you've

01:25:56.024 --> 01:25:57.374
gotta know how to manage it, haven't you?

01:25:57.374 --> 01:25:58.634
It's not for everybody.

01:25:58.754 --> 01:26:00.224
It's not for everybody at all.

01:26:00.614 --> 01:26:02.204
But horses have got it.

01:26:02.444 --> 01:26:03.674
They've got it nailed, haven't they?

01:26:03.674 --> 01:26:06.284
They're kind of, they're, they're
in harmony with what they've got

01:26:06.284 --> 01:26:09.589
very clear boundaries, I think, of
what's okay for them and what's not.

01:26:10.299 --> 01:26:10.589
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:26:11.449 --> 01:26:13.694
Laura Chesterfield: And, and
you can learn a lot from that.

01:26:13.844 --> 01:26:14.624
Definitely.

01:26:14.939 --> 01:26:15.609
Definitely.

01:26:15.734 --> 01:26:15.944
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:26:15.944 --> 01:26:18.344
I feel that there's a, there's an
element, you know, people talk a

01:26:18.344 --> 01:26:20.684
lot about awe these days, a WE.

01:26:21.044 --> 01:26:21.134
Laura Chesterfield: Mm-hmm.

01:26:21.204 --> 01:26:27.114
Rupert Isaacson: And this being a
really necessary component to happiness.

01:26:27.234 --> 01:26:27.534
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:26:27.534 --> 01:26:30.264
Rupert Isaacson: To feel in the presence
of, you know, you have that down in

01:26:30.264 --> 01:26:33.804
Cornwall in spades because the ocean
is there, the landscape is there.

01:26:35.244 --> 01:26:43.254
You are often feeling dwarfed by the
awesome immensity of, you know, of nature.

01:26:43.524 --> 01:26:45.594
But I feel that horses, in
a weird way, embody that.

01:26:46.014 --> 01:26:46.584
Laura Chesterfield: Mm.

01:26:46.704 --> 01:26:47.574
Rupert Isaacson: You know what I mean?

01:26:48.024 --> 01:26:48.354
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:26:48.739 --> 01:26:49.494
It's, it's a, wow.

01:26:49.494 --> 01:26:50.994
It's all those wow moments, isn't it?

01:26:50.994 --> 01:26:52.584
And I think it's, it's sense.

01:26:53.034 --> 01:26:56.004
But you were talking there and I was
just thinking it is that sensory thing,

01:26:56.004 --> 01:26:59.814
isn't it, of for some people they won't
want to do things that you might class

01:26:59.814 --> 01:27:03.204
as dangerous, but sensory extremes.

01:27:03.984 --> 01:27:04.014
Mm.

01:27:04.014 --> 01:27:04.024
Are.

01:27:04.489 --> 01:27:10.459
So if I think about like my mom, she would
love to go for a walk on a stormy day.

01:27:10.729 --> 01:27:14.749
Not maybe the dangerous, dangerous
storms that we've had recently, but that

01:27:14.749 --> 01:27:18.049
feeling of sensory wind in your face.

01:27:18.049 --> 01:27:18.109
Yeah.

01:27:18.199 --> 01:27:21.559
Pushing you backwards, going
to the beach, seeing the huge

01:27:21.559 --> 01:27:24.259
waves, feeling nature's force.

01:27:25.099 --> 01:27:25.279
Mm-hmm.

01:27:25.279 --> 01:27:28.789
That, that in itself is really,
you know, is, is that Wow.

01:27:28.789 --> 01:27:30.169
And that feeling connected to it.

01:27:30.169 --> 01:27:32.899
And part of what you then love
is maybe going home and having a

01:27:32.899 --> 01:27:36.469
different sensory experience of
snuggling up in the snuggle by a fire.

01:27:36.919 --> 01:27:41.119
And I think as humans we see all of
those sensory things, don't we mm-hmm.

01:27:41.119 --> 01:27:43.999
Get alive at different
points and, but yeah.

01:27:43.999 --> 01:27:48.289
Horses as powerful creatures, definitely
they represent that kind of courage

01:27:48.289 --> 01:27:55.009
to be open to all of that, I suppose,
and to, to seek it a little bit, you

01:27:55.009 --> 01:28:01.699
know, to go into the, to ride into
risk rather than to shelter away maybe.

01:28:03.054 --> 01:28:04.284
Rupert Isaacson: They'll
carry you through.

01:28:04.284 --> 01:28:05.184
They carry you.

01:28:05.214 --> 01:28:09.184
You know, I was, I was looking at, we,
we, we have this little YouTube channel

01:28:09.184 --> 01:28:11.494
that we do around horses in mythology.

01:28:11.764 --> 01:28:15.754
And I was doing one on slight near the
other day, you know, slight near being

01:28:15.784 --> 01:28:18.604
Odin's horse, the eight legged horse.

01:28:18.694 --> 01:28:22.144
And there's a point at which, you
know, people will often say, oh,

01:28:22.144 --> 01:28:25.414
that horse, you, you could ride
to hell and back on that horse.

01:28:25.594 --> 01:28:29.134
And of course, in the, in the legend of
slight near, that's exactly what they do.

01:28:29.404 --> 01:28:34.864
They, they ride to hell to try and recover
the soul of a, of a God called Boulder.

01:28:35.514 --> 01:28:37.644
He actually jumps the fence into hell.

01:28:37.884 --> 01:28:39.984
So there's a good jumper
too, and they ride out.

01:28:39.984 --> 01:28:43.704
But I was just thinking as a metaphor,
we, we horses transform us, don't they?

01:28:43.704 --> 01:28:45.714
Because they carry us
through the landscape.

01:28:45.714 --> 01:28:49.734
They carry us into danger, but through
the other side of danger if we don't

01:28:49.734 --> 01:28:50.754
get killed in the way, you know?

01:28:50.754 --> 01:28:50.904
Yeah.

01:28:51.414 --> 01:28:56.154
But with that ever present risk, and
then this need for balance, right.

01:28:57.564 --> 01:28:58.074
Laura Chesterfield: Yep.

01:28:58.344 --> 01:29:00.234
Rupert Isaacson: You know,
you, 'cause strength doesn't

01:29:00.234 --> 01:29:01.704
really come into it with horses.

01:29:01.914 --> 01:29:04.104
They're obviously so ridiculously strong.

01:29:04.494 --> 01:29:09.534
The whole thing comes to down to
balance, emotional as well as physical.

01:29:10.254 --> 01:29:12.324
Again, what are your thoughts on this?

01:29:12.324 --> 01:29:17.664
Because you, you, you went and studied,
you were going to go into this, you

01:29:17.664 --> 01:29:19.284
were gonna go into the equine industry.

01:29:19.974 --> 01:29:20.004
Mm.

01:29:20.004 --> 01:29:22.914
You know, so this obviously really
grabbed you at a certain point and

01:29:22.914 --> 01:29:25.134
then you didn't, why, why didn't you?

01:29:25.684 --> 01:29:29.164
But what do you feel you took
from it anyway into your career?

01:29:29.169 --> 01:29:29.459
Yeah,

01:29:30.479 --> 01:29:31.839
Laura Chesterfield: I was just,
when you were first talking, I was

01:29:31.959 --> 01:29:34.054
actually thinking about it like,
it's the year of the horse, isn't it?

01:29:34.054 --> 01:29:34.744
This year is,

01:29:34.804 --> 01:29:35.494
Rupert Isaacson: yeah, it is.

01:29:35.494 --> 01:29:35.854
Yeah.

01:29:36.094 --> 01:29:38.104
Laura Chesterfield: From year
of the fire horse year of the

01:29:38.104 --> 01:29:39.664
snake to the year of the horse.

01:29:39.664 --> 01:29:42.664
And some of the words you were using
actually, I think were, the things I've

01:29:42.664 --> 01:29:46.684
read about for this year of kind of
that courage and balance actually being

01:29:46.684 --> 01:29:50.574
kind of those, those words attached
to this year, which feels feels good.

01:29:50.994 --> 01:29:53.564
But yeah, I studied horses because I.

01:29:54.749 --> 01:29:56.279
I wanted to learn more.

01:29:56.309 --> 01:29:58.349
I think that was what it started off as.

01:29:58.349 --> 01:29:59.459
I was interested.

01:29:59.459 --> 01:30:00.569
I was curious.

01:30:00.569 --> 01:30:03.329
Like I knew I loved it
recreationally as a child.

01:30:03.659 --> 01:30:07.619
And then when I was at a point of being
17 and you're able to choose what you

01:30:07.619 --> 01:30:11.819
do at college and, you know, my, my
dad was happy for me to study horses.

01:30:11.819 --> 01:30:14.849
My mom was like, you have to
do something proper as well.

01:30:14.849 --> 01:30:19.559
You know, and, and so, so we kind of
found a balance of I'll do horses, but

01:30:19.559 --> 01:30:21.509
I'll do business management as well.

01:30:21.719 --> 01:30:24.299
And, you know, that that worked
actually really well together.

01:30:24.299 --> 01:30:26.269
But for me it was that curiosity.

01:30:26.269 --> 01:30:30.079
I just wanted to be an expert in
it because I loved it, you know?

01:30:30.079 --> 01:30:33.589
And I do think doing things
now, I'm 20 years older than

01:30:33.589 --> 01:30:35.839
that, doing things you love.

01:30:37.219 --> 01:30:42.679
If you can do something you love, do it
because you're bound to be better at it.

01:30:43.279 --> 01:30:46.939
You'll want to learn, you'll want to do
it, you'll want to fill your time with it.

01:30:47.419 --> 01:30:52.489
And I, I do have an element of, regret's
the wrong word, because I've had a

01:30:52.489 --> 01:30:57.409
great career so far, and, and, but
there's something to be said for when

01:30:57.409 --> 01:31:01.279
you had sort of different points in your
career and you think, what do I love?

01:31:01.279 --> 01:31:02.059
What am I good at?

01:31:02.059 --> 01:31:05.239
What am I interested in that, you know,
horses for me has always come back

01:31:05.839 --> 01:31:09.619
as a, you know, something that just
makes me feel good in every single way.

01:31:10.009 --> 01:31:17.329
But I think at the point after I'd studied
horses, I probably at that moment couldn't

01:31:17.329 --> 01:31:22.759
see down in Cornwall a career path
that felt obvious to me at that point.

01:31:23.064 --> 01:31:25.969
I, I didn't, I wasn't the best jockey.

01:31:25.969 --> 01:31:29.419
I was a good rider, but compared
to some of the other jockeys that

01:31:29.419 --> 01:31:33.589
maybe already had sponsorships
and, and, and rode for yards and,

01:31:33.589 --> 01:31:35.629
and trainers, I didn't feel like.

01:31:36.169 --> 01:31:42.559
I necessarily was that route, and
I didn't, I liked teaching and did

01:31:42.559 --> 01:31:46.069
some teaching qualifications and
liked it, but I wasn't sure that

01:31:46.069 --> 01:31:48.049
I was ready to settle to do that.

01:31:48.709 --> 01:31:48.739
Mm.

01:31:48.739 --> 01:31:50.449
Because I still loved my riding.

01:31:50.599 --> 01:31:52.429
So I loved the yard management side of it.

01:31:52.429 --> 01:31:56.869
I loved all of that, but I think
I just couldn't see a pathway from

01:31:56.869 --> 01:32:02.629
there as to where I would get a job
without moving away or, or without,

01:32:02.779 --> 01:32:06.199
you know, not being financially in
a situation that would sustain me.

01:32:06.199 --> 01:32:07.579
You know, it was at that point.

01:32:08.059 --> 01:32:09.504
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, it's
an ill paid industry, that's

01:32:09.504 --> 01:32:09.784
Laura Chesterfield: for sure.

01:32:09.784 --> 01:32:10.399
It's ill paid industry.

01:32:10.399 --> 01:32:11.539
It's not supported.

01:32:11.599 --> 01:32:15.529
And so I just, but I also, when
I finished my qualifications,

01:32:15.529 --> 01:32:17.239
I was a much better rider.

01:32:17.569 --> 01:32:20.569
I'd taken my horse to college with
me, so he was a much better horse.

01:32:20.619 --> 01:32:24.674
And I also, I, I loved, I loved
the business study side of stuff.

01:32:24.679 --> 01:32:27.644
I, I, I really liked sort of
learning that side of things, but

01:32:27.644 --> 01:32:29.594
I, it, I then went into the world.

01:32:29.594 --> 01:32:32.444
I went traveling for a while, but I then
went and studied to be a counselor and

01:32:32.444 --> 01:32:36.824
I went into sort of the world of therapy
and trauma therapy and, and just kind

01:32:36.824 --> 01:32:38.624
of explored other interests that I had.

01:32:38.624 --> 01:32:41.744
I've always been someone with,
as most people are, lots of

01:32:41.744 --> 01:32:42.824
things I'm interested in.

01:32:43.124 --> 01:32:45.224
So horses, I think, I just felt like.

01:32:46.009 --> 01:32:49.129
That can just go back to being a
hobby that I love, you know, that's

01:32:49.129 --> 01:32:51.319
for me to do outside of work.

01:32:51.319 --> 01:32:55.459
I've seen work as a kind of something you
do to get paid, and I'll go and do that.

01:32:55.489 --> 01:32:58.879
You know, I'll find a profession
and I'll find a job and I'll

01:32:58.879 --> 01:33:00.799
keep horses as my thing for my.

01:33:01.699 --> 01:33:05.659
Fun, my wellbeing, my outside of
work thing, which there was a lot

01:33:05.659 --> 01:33:06.889
to be said for that at the time.

01:33:06.889 --> 01:33:08.869
'cause I had my horse for
many years after that.

01:33:08.869 --> 01:33:11.929
You know, I had him throughout, you
know, before I met my husband, when

01:33:11.929 --> 01:33:14.659
I met my husband, when I got married,
when I had kids, you know, he traveled

01:33:14.659 --> 01:33:20.059
with me through all those stages of my
life and enabled that hobby to remain.

01:33:20.299 --> 01:33:23.239
And I've actually seen so many,
you know, so many other people as

01:33:23.239 --> 01:33:26.239
they grow up suddenly lose their
hobbies because they're too busy

01:33:26.239 --> 01:33:28.039
with family life or with their jobs.

01:33:28.429 --> 01:33:32.149
And so it was a real blessing to
actually have that as a hobby that kept

01:33:32.149 --> 01:33:36.109
me fit, kept me having time to myself,
kept me having something really fun.

01:33:36.469 --> 01:33:40.819
So there was a lot to be said for
it, but I, yeah, I do wonder what if

01:33:40.819 --> 01:33:44.179
perhaps at times, but it's definitely
something you can come back to as well.

01:33:44.179 --> 01:33:44.689
So,

01:33:45.179 --> 01:33:46.139
Rupert Isaacson: well, a hundred percent.

01:33:46.139 --> 01:33:49.709
I mean, you know, it's interesting
for me, I didn't, I didn't expect

01:33:49.709 --> 01:33:53.429
to have a professional life
as a horseman really at all.

01:33:53.529 --> 01:33:55.809
And you know, as a journalist
I was a, you know, I was always

01:33:55.809 --> 01:33:57.369
passionate with horses, but.

01:33:58.149 --> 01:34:02.169
It was obviously, as you know,
only when my son became verbal on

01:34:02.169 --> 01:34:05.979
the back of a horse with me, and
then my life just went p that way.

01:34:05.979 --> 01:34:06.039
Yeah.

01:34:06.469 --> 01:34:12.559
And then with realizing that the key
was to collect the horse, so therefore

01:34:12.619 --> 01:34:17.269
dressage, so now I'm a dressage trainer
and, you know, but also in parallel

01:34:17.269 --> 01:34:19.909
with all the other, with the writing,
with the journalism, with all the other

01:34:19.909 --> 01:34:21.139
stuff, and of course the healing thing.

01:34:21.439 --> 01:34:24.799
So I have a, I have a strong suspicion
that it's going to come back into

01:34:24.799 --> 01:34:28.519
your life and it's gonna come back
into your life professionally.

01:34:28.729 --> 01:34:34.469
I might even have a few little ideas
up my sleeve about this that I might

01:34:34.469 --> 01:34:39.059
want to discuss with you later because
but interestingly, I think you, you

01:34:39.059 --> 01:34:43.409
going off and learning, particularly
equine management, probably really

01:34:43.409 --> 01:34:47.909
prepared you to run Halligan because,
you know, Halligan is so multifaceted.

01:34:49.034 --> 01:34:51.014
As you say, you've got the gardens,
you've got the horticulture, you've

01:34:51.014 --> 01:34:54.224
got the, the estate management, you've
got the livestock, you've got the

01:34:54.374 --> 01:34:58.994
art, you've got the tourism interface,
you've got all of this, you've got the,

01:34:59.144 --> 01:35:00.704
the food production and the kitchens.

01:35:02.834 --> 01:35:05.714
You know, horses are so
multifaceted in that way too.

01:35:06.344 --> 01:35:06.494
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:35:06.574 --> 01:35:10.114
Rupert Isaacson: I suspect that that
really did prepare you well, but now

01:35:10.114 --> 01:35:11.884
you are on the cusp of another change.

01:35:12.394 --> 01:35:19.394
So you, you are now flying free
from literally in the last two weeks

01:35:19.694 --> 01:35:19.874
Yeah.

01:35:19.874 --> 01:35:23.744
Rupert Isaacson: From the secret
garden of your childhood and Yeah.

01:35:24.314 --> 01:35:30.134
Running that place and it's, so this
must be quite an interesting feeling.

01:35:31.124 --> 01:35:31.184
Yeah.

01:35:31.184 --> 01:35:32.024
What's, what's ahead now?

01:35:32.024 --> 01:35:33.284
What are you, what are you going into?

01:35:33.284 --> 01:35:34.274
What, what's the plan?

01:35:35.114 --> 01:35:35.564
Laura Chesterfield: So.

01:35:36.434 --> 01:35:36.854
Gosh.

01:35:36.914 --> 01:35:41.324
Yeah, no, it's a real time of transition
and, but I really welcome that, you

01:35:41.324 --> 01:35:47.294
know, I did 10 year career before Heli,
10 years at Heli with it being my work.

01:35:47.654 --> 01:35:49.994
And I think, you know, I'm
really ready for it to go back

01:35:49.994 --> 01:35:52.244
to being the place that I love.

01:35:52.244 --> 01:35:55.934
You know, that my church, if you, I
talked about earlier, you know, for

01:35:55.934 --> 01:36:01.004
me and my family to just go there
for that, that, that feeling great

01:36:01.004 --> 01:36:02.624
and it being a safe space again.

01:36:03.254 --> 01:36:03.344
Mm-hmm.

01:36:03.474 --> 01:36:07.494
It's just the right time
and it's important to know

01:36:07.494 --> 01:36:08.574
when it's the right time.

01:36:08.574 --> 01:36:08.934
So it's,

01:36:09.009 --> 01:36:10.069
Rupert Isaacson: but what
are you gonna go and do now?

01:36:10.259 --> 01:36:10.549
What

01:36:10.549 --> 01:36:11.994
Laura Chesterfield: am I gonna do now?

01:36:12.024 --> 01:36:17.004
So, so I mean, there's a lot of, there's
a lot of plans and there's a lot of

01:36:17.094 --> 01:36:18.834
what ifs, which is the excitement.

01:36:19.104 --> 01:36:25.224
And I think, you know, for me leaving what
I've done so far is set up my consultancy

01:36:25.284 --> 01:36:28.104
business, which is called Le Lova Studios.

01:36:28.104 --> 01:36:28.554
Which

01:36:28.979 --> 01:36:29.949
Rupert Isaacson: Lova Studios?

01:36:31.014 --> 01:36:31.554
Laura Chesterfield: Lova Studios.

01:36:31.554 --> 01:36:33.054
Rupert Isaacson: That
sounds like a Cornish word.

01:36:33.789 --> 01:36:36.909
Laura Chesterfield: It is so
it means in your happy place.

01:36:37.389 --> 01:36:45.169
And I really believe that, you know,
connecting people to place and to

01:36:45.169 --> 01:36:47.929
nature that they age your happiness.

01:36:47.929 --> 01:36:49.339
You know, they make you happy.

01:36:49.339 --> 01:36:52.549
They make, they really, your
wellbeing if you want, is

01:36:52.549 --> 01:36:53.959
enhanced through those things.

01:36:54.169 --> 01:36:56.929
And all the things I've learned
that we've talked about in this

01:36:56.929 --> 01:36:58.789
conversation about how you.

01:36:59.209 --> 01:37:05.239
Connect people to a place through stories,
through experiences, through events.

01:37:05.629 --> 01:37:08.899
I, I'm gonna help other people to do that.

01:37:09.409 --> 01:37:14.599
I think it's, it's what I've seen is
a real gap in, in a number of venues,

01:37:14.599 --> 01:37:18.619
whether it be gardens, whether it be
hotels, whether, you know, what businesses

01:37:18.619 --> 01:37:24.109
in general that if they stole, told their
stories differently, they would connect

01:37:24.109 --> 01:37:29.659
to their audience better and in a more
sustainable way that actually adds value,

01:37:29.899 --> 01:37:32.689
emotional connection, and real meaning.

01:37:33.079 --> 01:37:37.219
And I think that what my hope is that
my consultancy is gonna, you know,

01:37:37.219 --> 01:37:40.879
take that to lots of places to really
explore, explore that storytelling

01:37:41.119 --> 01:37:45.139
and to give real depth to businesses
and how they talk about themselves.

01:37:45.499 --> 01:37:50.029
Because if you, if you run a business
where your marketing doesn't match up

01:37:50.029 --> 01:37:54.049
to the experience on the ground, and
people come and they don't feel anything.

01:37:54.604 --> 01:37:57.754
You're not gonna keep attracting
people, you're not gonna have that word

01:37:57.754 --> 01:38:00.034
of mouth, you're not gonna have that

01:38:00.184 --> 01:38:00.274
sure

01:38:00.604 --> 01:38:03.994
emotional connection that we've talked
about that then goes on for generations.

01:38:03.994 --> 01:38:07.084
And I think, you know, being
able to help people explore

01:38:07.084 --> 01:38:08.774
that is gonna be a real joy.

01:38:08.774 --> 01:38:13.694
So I've got some projects that I'm working
on at the moment through that, which is.

01:38:14.409 --> 01:38:15.789
It's just really exciting.

01:38:15.879 --> 01:38:20.349
You know, it's, it's really nice to help
people feel brave enough to do that.

01:38:20.349 --> 01:38:25.029
Sometimes telling these stories of
place, you know, stories of heart and

01:38:25.029 --> 01:38:27.279
meaning and people can be quite scary.

01:38:27.279 --> 01:38:29.979
You know, some people don't wanna go
there or they don't dunno how to go

01:38:30.369 --> 01:38:32.679
or which medium to use to go there.

01:38:32.679 --> 01:38:35.984
They might just do it through
boards like we talked about, or,

01:38:35.989 --> 01:38:39.249
or they might do it through events
that don't make you feel anything.

01:38:39.669 --> 01:38:42.639
And actually I think, you know, if
you open people up to that, that

01:38:42.639 --> 01:38:46.959
depth, then you know, we can create
businesses that have much more feeling.

01:38:47.209 --> 01:38:47.809
Within them.

01:38:48.179 --> 01:38:49.049
And happier people.

01:38:49.049 --> 01:38:49.259
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:38:49.259 --> 01:38:52.589
I mean, Halligan, you've done nothing
but create story sort of over the

01:38:52.589 --> 01:38:55.379
years, whether it's these pieces of
sculpture that then people end up

01:38:55.379 --> 01:38:57.359
writing poems and whole books around.

01:38:57.359 --> 01:38:59.219
There's whole books about
the mud made, you know?

01:39:00.149 --> 01:39:00.209
Yeah.

01:39:00.239 --> 01:39:02.969
Or, but I guess the whole thing
comes out of story, doesn't it?

01:39:02.969 --> 01:39:07.109
Which is the story of finding the garden
and then the story of those gardeners

01:39:07.109 --> 01:39:11.879
going to war and not coming back, writing
their names in the, in the thunder box.

01:39:11.879 --> 01:39:12.149
And

01:39:12.689 --> 01:39:14.204
Laura Chesterfield: it's how you
tell those stories, you know?

01:39:14.434 --> 01:39:14.724
It's,

01:39:14.944 --> 01:39:15.164
Rupert Isaacson: yes.

01:39:15.584 --> 01:39:19.529
Laura Chesterfield: You know, it's, I've
grown up in those, in those places, but

01:39:19.529 --> 01:39:21.239
it's how you choose to tell those stories.

01:39:21.239 --> 01:39:24.719
It could have been, in terms of publicly
a very different story that was told.

01:39:24.719 --> 01:39:28.259
If you pick different words and a
different dialogue and a different

01:39:28.259 --> 01:39:31.379
narrative, people wouldn't
have connected to it, you know?

01:39:31.379 --> 01:39:32.399
I truly believe that.

01:39:32.609 --> 01:39:37.169
So it's, it's about how you tell
your stories and what narrative is

01:39:37.169 --> 01:39:41.429
running through that, that people can
see themselves in or connect to, or.

01:39:42.404 --> 01:39:44.744
Or feel like, God, that's
really interesting.

01:39:44.744 --> 01:39:45.794
That's making me curious.

01:39:45.794 --> 01:39:49.724
That's making me really kind of
want, want a bit of that in my life.

01:39:50.144 --> 01:39:53.384
So it, it is how you tell stories and,
you know, I've been very fortunate

01:39:53.384 --> 01:39:59.204
to grow up at Heli again, but also
at Eden and, you know, these are two

01:39:59.204 --> 01:40:04.904
of the places that doing storytelling
brilliantly in a way that people feel a

01:40:04.904 --> 01:40:07.394
part of and people can feel inspired by.

01:40:07.844 --> 01:40:09.814
So, my hope is to,

01:40:09.844 --> 01:40:10.264
Rupert Isaacson: yeah, people.

01:40:10.264 --> 01:40:15.364
By the way, just quickly aside, a lot
of the viewers, listeners, the Los

01:40:15.364 --> 01:40:19.564
Hard Gardens of Allergan is, is, is one
project, the Eden Project is another

01:40:19.564 --> 01:40:22.404
one, which the Laura's family has been.

01:40:23.344 --> 01:40:25.804
You just need to go Google
the Eden project and you'll

01:40:25.804 --> 01:40:26.974
get knocked on your ass.

01:40:27.044 --> 01:40:29.114
It's, it, the scale of
it is, is extraordinary.

01:40:29.114 --> 01:40:30.194
Also ecological.

01:40:30.584 --> 01:40:35.984
But where do you think, do you think this,
you're, you're a very good storyteller

01:40:36.014 --> 01:40:39.254
and you understand how to present story.

01:40:39.254 --> 01:40:43.374
When we were putting together
our project which became walks

01:40:43.374 --> 01:40:45.384
of a curious nature, you know?

01:40:45.384 --> 01:40:45.444
Yeah.

01:40:45.474 --> 01:40:47.634
Which is interacting
with nature in the mind.

01:40:47.634 --> 01:40:50.394
At Halligan, it was you
who came up with that name.

01:40:50.514 --> 01:40:52.094
And I remember thinking

01:40:54.164 --> 01:40:56.624
that's a certain instinct
that people have.

01:40:56.714 --> 01:40:58.814
And obviously your
father has this as well.

01:40:59.144 --> 01:40:59.234
Yeah.

01:40:59.314 --> 01:41:02.794
But do you feel that you learned
storytelling at a certain point?

01:41:02.794 --> 01:41:07.804
Do you feel it's just instinctive because
you, you, you guys are masterful at.

01:41:08.644 --> 01:41:11.914
Bringing the story of your
projects across, I think in

01:41:11.914 --> 01:41:13.924
a way that is quite unusual.

01:41:14.044 --> 01:41:16.354
We know, you know, one always knows
a lot of people who do amazing

01:41:16.354 --> 01:41:20.374
work, and you think, oh, they could
only just get it out there more.

01:41:20.434 --> 01:41:20.554
Yeah.

01:41:20.614 --> 01:41:21.634
They get the recognition.

01:41:21.634 --> 01:41:24.694
But as you say that the story
somehow isn't getting out there.

01:41:24.694 --> 01:41:24.754
Hmm.

01:41:25.984 --> 01:41:29.014
Do do you feel you are, did
you study it in any way?

01:41:29.014 --> 01:41:32.374
Do you feel you just acquired it at
your mother's, with your mother's milk?

01:41:32.374 --> 01:41:33.484
I mean, how,

01:41:35.299 --> 01:41:37.114
Laura Chesterfield: I
don't, I, I don't know.

01:41:37.114 --> 01:41:39.574
I mean, you just, you're born
and you're just, you, aren't you?

01:41:39.574 --> 01:41:41.494
I mean, it's just, yeah.

01:41:41.494 --> 01:41:46.714
I think it's in, it's in, you know, it's,
it's in my blood I guess a little bit.

01:41:46.839 --> 01:41:51.784
It, it must be, but, but I also
think growing up in a house where.

01:41:52.384 --> 01:41:56.104
We were always reading books,
we were always telling jokes.

01:41:56.104 --> 01:42:00.004
We were always telling stories and
trying to make each other laugh.

01:42:00.064 --> 01:42:00.994
We were always

01:42:01.084 --> 01:42:01.294
mm-hmm.

01:42:01.654 --> 01:42:06.094
Doing things, you know, and, and, and
whether that was, you know, like I

01:42:06.094 --> 01:42:11.404
said earlier, going off and catching
crabs or going off and stomping the,

01:42:11.404 --> 01:42:14.614
the footpath, you know, it wasn't
about having money to go and do things.

01:42:14.614 --> 01:42:19.714
It was just, I think spending
time communicating a lot.

01:42:19.714 --> 01:42:19.774
Yeah.

01:42:19.774 --> 01:42:23.584
And, you know, my dad and my mom
filled the house with friends, you

01:42:23.584 --> 01:42:27.904
know, they were really social people
and so we heard a lot of tales

01:42:27.904 --> 01:42:30.424
and a lot, you know, nights where.

01:42:30.674 --> 01:42:34.694
As kids, we were welcome round the table
with the adults, you know, to listen

01:42:34.694 --> 01:42:40.004
to stories, to communicate with adults,
to, to see lots of various people, you

01:42:40.004 --> 01:42:41.654
know, that were in different worlds.

01:42:41.654 --> 01:42:46.574
So my dad was surrounded by musicians
people in theater you know, some really

01:42:46.574 --> 01:42:49.184
sort of creative, creative people.

01:42:49.189 --> 01:42:52.214
So there was always laughter
and music and theatrics.

01:42:52.214 --> 01:42:54.404
And we were always going to the cinema.

01:42:54.404 --> 01:42:56.954
We were always going to, you
know, to watch the theater.

01:42:56.954 --> 01:43:00.494
We grew up near Kneehigh Theater,
who are a local theater here that

01:43:00.494 --> 01:43:01.874
have just done amazing things.

01:43:01.874 --> 01:43:05.499
They're renowned for just telling
incredible stories and, and,

01:43:05.534 --> 01:43:09.674
and in amazing ways, you know,
just imagination gone wild.

01:43:10.274 --> 01:43:13.784
And, and so I think that inspiration
has always been around me of.

01:43:14.404 --> 01:43:18.604
Telling tales and, you know, and
like I talked about earlier with

01:43:18.604 --> 01:43:22.384
The Secret Garden, I mean, I grew up
reading Matilda over and over again,

01:43:22.384 --> 01:43:26.224
secret Garden over and over again,
Charlotte's Web over and over again.

01:43:26.584 --> 01:43:30.964
And, and I think all kids, a
lot of kids love telling stories

01:43:30.964 --> 01:43:32.089
over and over again, don't they?

01:43:32.269 --> 01:43:32.489
Yes.

01:43:32.644 --> 01:43:37.114
They know that it's what, you know,
it's a, a memory of having a 2-year-old

01:43:37.114 --> 01:43:39.304
that wants the same book every night.

01:43:40.534 --> 01:43:42.634
There's a reason, there's a reason
why they wanna watch the same

01:43:42.634 --> 01:43:44.644
episode of Pepper Pig over again.

01:43:44.824 --> 01:43:47.764
People like recalling, they like
joining in and all knowing the

01:43:47.764 --> 01:43:51.514
words and all, and that, that sort
of like togetherness of story and

01:43:51.904 --> 01:43:54.184
Rupert Isaacson: it's basically
learning the craft of storytelling,

01:43:54.184 --> 01:43:57.424
isn't it, when you're a kid
that revisiting the same story

01:43:57.844 --> 01:43:58.204
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:43:58.204 --> 01:43:59.614
Rupert Isaacson: In more
depth, in more detail.

01:43:59.734 --> 01:44:00.154
Yep.

01:44:00.364 --> 01:44:00.424
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:44:00.424 --> 01:44:05.644
And I hope that, so I think,
you know, for, for me, I just

01:44:05.644 --> 01:44:08.764
go with what feels good and I.

01:44:09.664 --> 01:44:12.154
I love seeing people having a great time.

01:44:12.424 --> 01:44:16.714
Like there's nothing better than
creating something that holds meaning

01:44:16.714 --> 01:44:20.194
for other people because it just, holding
meaning for yourself means nothing.

01:44:20.674 --> 01:44:20.974
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.

01:44:21.634 --> 01:44:25.234
And my God, have you guys done that in
spades with, with heli and, and with Eden?

01:44:25.234 --> 01:44:30.694
I mean, I think one of the things that
strikes everybody there is that it's the

01:44:30.694 --> 01:44:32.734
de, it's the democratic nature of it.

01:44:32.734 --> 01:44:36.934
It's the big house with the big garden,
but the big garden out in its own

01:44:36.934 --> 01:44:39.484
universe, which is now feels like it.

01:44:40.354 --> 01:44:44.194
It's so weird when you're in Halligan,
you do feel like it's your own, it

01:44:44.194 --> 01:44:47.944
feels personal and I know that's every
person's experience who goes there.

01:44:48.184 --> 01:44:51.424
There's not a single person I've ever
spoken to, whether they work there,

01:44:51.424 --> 01:44:56.554
whether even your dad who, you know,
sort of conceived it, it, it's, I think

01:44:56.554 --> 01:44:59.974
that there's generations of people
now who've kind of grown up there and

01:44:59.974 --> 01:45:03.274
their kids have grown up there and
there's this feeling that it is theirs.

01:45:03.544 --> 01:45:03.604
Yeah.

01:45:03.724 --> 01:45:07.049
And you guys are really good at.

01:45:08.089 --> 01:45:09.439
Letting people feel that.

01:45:09.439 --> 01:45:15.739
Whereas, you know, if you go to a big
formal garden, like I was just in Alhambra

01:45:16.079 --> 01:45:19.159
the Alazar, sorry in Seve the other
day, and you know, they're beautiful

01:45:19.159 --> 01:45:21.259
gardens, but they're not your gardens.

01:45:21.259 --> 01:45:21.889
You know what I mean?

01:45:21.919 --> 01:45:23.779
They's say you can visit them,
you can pay some money to visit,

01:45:23.929 --> 01:45:24.859
but they're not your gardens.

01:45:25.369 --> 01:45:25.429
Yeah.

01:45:25.459 --> 01:45:27.439
Halligan is so much
more intimate than that.

01:45:27.439 --> 01:45:29.869
People just wonder and
get lost and as you say,

01:45:30.439 --> 01:45:30.619
Laura Chesterfield: yeah.

01:45:30.699 --> 01:45:32.319
Rupert Isaacson: Become wrapped in story.

01:45:34.359 --> 01:45:37.629
But the way in which you guys do it, you
know, I've, I've gone around your gift

01:45:37.629 --> 01:45:40.779
shop and it's said, oh my gosh, there's
another book on some aspect of Elgan,

01:45:40.779 --> 01:45:42.609
and now here you are reading the poems.

01:45:42.939 --> 01:45:43.059
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:45:43.059 --> 01:45:43.119
You

01:45:43.119 --> 01:45:48.879
Rupert Isaacson: know, that's an instinct
that I think a lot of people don't have

01:45:48.879 --> 01:45:54.939
is this constantly asking how can we,
how can we tell and retell the story?

01:45:55.089 --> 01:45:59.439
How can we look for different aspects
of what we do and tell those stories?

01:45:59.739 --> 01:45:59.979
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:46:01.869 --> 01:46:05.019
Rupert Isaacson: So I imagine you're
going to be very successful with this.

01:46:05.619 --> 01:46:07.209
Laura Chesterfield:
Hey, I hope, I hope so.

01:46:07.209 --> 01:46:12.239
People are very generous and, and I think
it's for me, someone, someone said to me

01:46:12.239 --> 01:46:16.229
a while ago that was, you know, really,
really kind, they came and looked around

01:46:16.229 --> 01:46:19.799
the gardens with me and they were like,
wow, where did, where did you train

01:46:19.799 --> 01:46:22.589
to know how to curate these things?

01:46:22.589 --> 01:46:24.209
Like, what course did you do?

01:46:24.209 --> 01:46:27.929
And this, and I just looked at them
like, you know, that doesn't exist.

01:46:27.929 --> 01:46:28.319
Right.

01:46:28.949 --> 01:46:30.469
And like, maybe it should.

01:46:30.469 --> 01:46:31.279
I mean, that would be great.

01:46:31.549 --> 01:46:32.929
But I just said to him,

01:46:32.934 --> 01:46:33.714
Rupert Isaacson: maybe
you should teach it.

01:46:35.054 --> 01:46:38.179
Laura Chesterfield: No, it, it,
it's an, it is an do you what?

01:46:38.179 --> 01:46:46.009
It's, for me, it's, it's being, it's
not being an expert in most things,

01:46:46.219 --> 01:46:48.709
but being interested in everything.

01:46:48.714 --> 01:46:48.994
Rupert Isaacson: Sure.

01:46:49.144 --> 01:46:49.634
Curious

01:46:50.174 --> 01:46:50.714
Laura Chesterfield: is actually

01:46:51.054 --> 01:46:51.914
Rupert Isaacson: in curious nature.

01:46:52.304 --> 01:46:52.594
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:46:52.884 --> 01:46:54.234
Hence the always of a curious nature.

01:46:54.679 --> 01:46:56.839
And I think my strength is that I.

01:46:57.574 --> 01:47:00.814
I'm not afraid to tell people
I know nothing about that.

01:47:01.264 --> 01:47:02.824
I know nothing about that.

01:47:02.824 --> 01:47:07.834
But you've just told me how amazing
tardy grades are, or you've just told

01:47:07.834 --> 01:47:11.704
me what's actually happening under
the soil and now it's like an itch

01:47:11.704 --> 01:47:14.434
that I've got a scratch because why
doesn't everybody know about this?

01:47:14.434 --> 01:47:18.244
Like, you know, in terms of why
doesn't Joe blogs know about this?

01:47:18.244 --> 01:47:21.214
I know that there's people studying
things that will know about these

01:47:21.214 --> 01:47:24.724
things, but actually, why don't
people know about all of these things?

01:47:24.724 --> 01:47:29.194
And I think that's where I get
a lot of my, my oomph from is

01:47:29.194 --> 01:47:31.114
that I don't know those things.

01:47:31.294 --> 01:47:34.864
And then when I get a glimpse of them,
I go, how am I gonna tell everyone?

01:47:35.674 --> 01:47:40.054
And I think my weird, happy ideas
come out about, you know, how are we

01:47:40.054 --> 01:47:44.194
gonna tell this story in a way that
my neighbors, my kids, my friends,

01:47:44.794 --> 01:47:44.974
yes.

01:47:44.974 --> 01:47:48.124
Would get, you know, you don't
have to be an academic, you

01:47:48.124 --> 01:47:49.594
don't have to be at university.

01:47:49.594 --> 01:47:52.354
This should just be wow.

01:47:52.444 --> 01:47:53.974
You know, how do you spread the wow.

01:47:55.699 --> 01:47:58.759
Rupert Isaacson: What, what your
family have done is, is, is you,

01:47:58.939 --> 01:48:01.099
you create a world of enchantment.

01:48:01.159 --> 01:48:03.949
You know, I'm, I'm also thinking for
example, about the night garden that

01:48:03.949 --> 01:48:07.519
you do at Halligan, which, although
I know it half kills you to do it.

01:48:07.519 --> 01:48:12.269
It's, it's this, for those who dunno,
it, it's it's through the, the Christmas

01:48:12.269 --> 01:48:15.989
period and and the lead up to it
at night, they open up the gardens

01:48:15.989 --> 01:48:21.209
in these grand illuminations in,
in a very similar way to their way.

01:48:21.209 --> 01:48:24.899
There were these illuminated gardens
in London two, 300 years ago, and

01:48:25.139 --> 01:48:28.109
it's incredibly beautiful and it's,
it's exquisitely done and people

01:48:28.109 --> 01:48:33.629
come from Mars mar around and it's
amazing and it's full and people

01:48:33.629 --> 01:48:35.279
are just marveling and enchanted.

01:48:35.849 --> 01:48:39.149
It's an enchantment secret
garden isn't about enchantment.

01:48:39.719 --> 01:48:44.099
It seems that the key is you
guys know how to be enchanted.

01:48:44.669 --> 01:48:44.909
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:48:45.524 --> 01:48:50.234
Rupert Isaacson: Which then allows you
to communicate that enchantment, but

01:48:50.234 --> 01:48:52.094
you guys are actively looking for it.

01:48:52.274 --> 01:48:57.284
And maybe that is the key that you
can go out and teach people and show

01:48:57.284 --> 01:49:01.454
people a little bit like when you
were exploring on your, on your wealth

01:49:01.454 --> 01:49:05.684
section D you are going into Cornwall,
which is a land of enchantment, you

01:49:05.684 --> 01:49:08.684
know, allowing this enchanting horse
to take you through the land of

01:49:08.684 --> 01:49:10.604
enchantment, including the dangers.

01:49:11.054 --> 01:49:11.144
Mm-hmm.

01:49:11.654 --> 01:49:12.914
But you,

01:49:14.954 --> 01:49:19.094
you then can bring the story back and
I think a lot of us actually could,

01:49:19.514 --> 01:49:22.184
I've actually quite often looked at
what you guys do at how think, oh God,

01:49:22.184 --> 01:49:26.504
I could use a bit of mentorship here
in, even though I'm a storyteller,

01:49:26.504 --> 01:49:28.669
even though I'm a writer, it's
like, I see the way you guys do it.

01:49:28.669 --> 01:49:28.749
Yeah.

01:49:28.749 --> 01:49:28.909
Best

01:49:28.909 --> 01:49:29.429
Laura Chesterfield: storyteller.

01:49:29.449 --> 01:49:29.869
Oh my gosh.

01:49:29.869 --> 01:49:31.694
Rupert Isaacson: They're like,
damn, these guys are good.

01:49:32.384 --> 01:49:32.864
I could, yeah.

01:49:32.864 --> 01:49:36.104
But there's things that you come up
with that don't occur to me to do.

01:49:36.854 --> 01:49:40.004
You know, particularly
telling the specific as like.

01:49:42.089 --> 01:49:48.959
For example, if I were to take a leaf
out of your book in Horse Boy, it

01:49:48.959 --> 01:49:54.179
would be looking at specific stories
of particular kids and families

01:49:54.179 --> 01:49:59.189
that have had particular outcomes or
something magical within horses in

01:49:59.189 --> 01:50:03.269
the shamanic aspect of it, that's, and
creating books and stories around that.

01:50:03.269 --> 01:50:04.949
And of course part of it's just bandwidth.

01:50:04.949 --> 01:50:08.219
One only has a certain amount of
time, but I've looked at how you guys

01:50:08.219 --> 01:50:14.759
take all these different aspects of
Heli and Eden and tell those stories.

01:50:16.799 --> 01:50:20.189
I could see, I think that is
something that people need help with.

01:50:21.239 --> 01:50:25.859
So I will certainly be recommending
to people that they hire a

01:50:25.859 --> 01:50:27.059
bit of Laura Chesterfield.

01:50:27.519 --> 01:50:30.219
And I think you and I should actually
have some of these conversations

01:50:30.219 --> 01:50:33.039
because I, I really do admire.

01:50:34.434 --> 01:50:38.754
How you guys communicate
the stories, because it also

01:50:38.754 --> 01:50:40.104
enhances people's experience.

01:50:40.254 --> 01:50:42.624
It means that when they, they go
from Halligan and they go home, they

01:50:42.624 --> 01:50:43.944
take a bit of halligan with them.

01:50:44.454 --> 01:50:44.814
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah,

01:50:44.904 --> 01:50:45.354
Rupert Isaacson: yeah,

01:50:45.564 --> 01:50:46.374
Laura Chesterfield: yeah, absolutely.

01:50:46.374 --> 01:50:49.604
I think it's it's allowing yourself
to be quite childish still.

01:50:50.114 --> 01:50:50.244
You know,

01:50:50.499 --> 01:50:50.719
Rupert Isaacson: and

01:50:50.719 --> 01:50:55.214
Laura Chesterfield: I'm a real
Ella from corporate, you know, I, I

01:50:55.214 --> 01:50:58.154
rubella away from it at speed and.

01:50:59.099 --> 01:51:02.159
Some people, you know, you get the
commentary of, oh, you know, it's not very

01:51:02.159 --> 01:51:06.029
professional or, or there's not enough
process and spreadsheets and rah rah rah.

01:51:06.359 --> 01:51:10.139
And actually, you know, it's just about
people being people and telling stories

01:51:10.139 --> 01:51:15.089
and actually being creative and letting
that fire, and letting that kind of

01:51:15.569 --> 01:51:20.369
bouncing off the right people to tell
stories like kids would, you know?

01:51:20.369 --> 01:51:26.699
And, and actually you can let too much
process and corporate and adulting

01:51:26.939 --> 01:51:29.519
of what you are meant to do if you're
a professional or what you're meant

01:51:29.519 --> 01:51:30.779
to do if you're running a business.

01:51:31.109 --> 01:51:36.929
Really cloud and dissolve that
ability to be silly, that ability

01:51:36.929 --> 01:51:39.839
to, to dream, that ability to

01:51:40.019 --> 01:51:40.289
Rupert Isaacson: playfulness.

01:51:40.289 --> 01:51:40.349
Yeah.

01:51:40.979 --> 01:51:41.584
Laura Chesterfield: Think, think big.

01:51:42.189 --> 01:51:43.359
Be playful.

01:51:43.599 --> 01:51:47.589
And you know, those things
get lost along the way.

01:51:47.679 --> 01:51:52.329
And, and I think trying to keep that
fresh in people's minds and giving

01:51:52.329 --> 01:51:54.699
that permission of be bloody silly.

01:51:54.729 --> 01:51:56.019
Tell, I mean, you yourself Yes.

01:51:56.139 --> 01:51:57.189
Love a part joke.

01:51:57.189 --> 01:51:57.939
Rupert, don't you?

01:51:57.939 --> 01:51:58.659
Like, you, you, I,

01:51:59.289 --> 01:52:00.699
Rupert Isaacson: my
entire life is a far joke.

01:52:00.704 --> 01:52:01.004
You know,

01:52:03.429 --> 01:52:04.029
Laura Chesterfield: it's just like,

01:52:04.329 --> 01:52:05.199
Rupert Isaacson: I'm a far joke.

01:52:05.344 --> 01:52:06.244
Laura Chesterfield: You're a far joke.

01:52:06.459 --> 01:52:08.884
But it's that stuffiness and
I think that, you know, yeah.

01:52:08.884 --> 01:52:14.799
And businesses that allow stuffiness to
fill the spaces could lose their way.

01:52:14.799 --> 01:52:18.369
And, and I think, you know, we've
been very fortunate to employ great

01:52:18.369 --> 01:52:22.089
people and to have great visitors.

01:52:22.359 --> 01:52:22.839
Rupert Isaacson: Well, yeah.

01:52:22.839 --> 01:52:28.329
One of the things which you, you,
you guys prove is that playfulness

01:52:28.329 --> 01:52:29.919
does not destroy structure.

01:52:30.309 --> 01:52:32.469
You, you, it's not one or the other.

01:52:32.559 --> 01:52:33.279
Laura Chesterfield: Mm-hmm.

01:52:33.609 --> 01:52:35.979
Rupert Isaacson: The
structures and mechanisms.

01:52:36.374 --> 01:52:41.504
Even though they're so flexible and so
multifaceted and parallel at a place

01:52:41.504 --> 01:52:43.724
like Halligan, it's very structured.

01:52:43.724 --> 01:52:44.984
That place has to run.

01:52:44.984 --> 01:52:49.874
It's got a huge staff, you know, it's
got fragile ecosystems and plants.

01:52:49.874 --> 01:52:52.364
It's got the whole business side of it.

01:52:52.574 --> 01:52:57.734
You guys do it without it
being in your face onerous.

01:52:58.094 --> 01:52:58.304
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:52:58.394 --> 01:53:00.764
Rupert Isaacson: The best structures
I always feel are invisible, right?

01:53:01.124 --> 01:53:01.454
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:53:01.784 --> 01:53:04.004
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, that's the,
that's the true sign of a masterful

01:53:04.004 --> 01:53:05.474
structure is when you're not aware of it.

01:53:06.284 --> 01:53:07.724
Laura Chesterfield: It's,
it's teamwork, you know, and I

01:53:07.724 --> 01:53:08.564
think that's what we're lucky.

01:53:08.564 --> 01:53:10.754
We've got lots of team members.

01:53:10.844 --> 01:53:15.524
We all get stuck in and we all do a bit
of, you know, you might one minute be in

01:53:15.524 --> 01:53:18.854
the car park, car parking, and the next
minute rounding up pigs that have escaped

01:53:18.854 --> 01:53:23.324
and the next minute all going to a, you
know, a, an a glow worm release and the

01:53:23.324 --> 01:53:26.264
next minute all on the jumpy pillow in
the play area, and then the next minute

01:53:26.264 --> 01:53:28.334
dealing with storms and climate change.

01:53:28.334 --> 01:53:31.034
And I think it's, again, it's
about having that ecosystem.

01:53:31.709 --> 01:53:37.859
All in one place that it's quite special
people to be there and to love that,

01:53:38.129 --> 01:53:40.019
you know, and to find the joy in it.

01:53:40.019 --> 01:53:43.139
And then you, you get the best
outta people and get great things.

01:53:43.139 --> 01:53:45.629
But yeah, of course there's structure
underneath it that, that, you know,

01:53:45.629 --> 01:53:51.329
there has to be some of that of
course, but not that to lead the way.

01:53:51.329 --> 01:53:51.449
Lead.

01:53:51.989 --> 01:53:52.769
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.

01:53:52.799 --> 01:53:53.819
No, absolutely.

01:53:53.939 --> 01:53:56.759
It's what we all, I think, I think
what you've put your finger on

01:53:56.759 --> 01:53:58.049
is actually what fulfillment is.

01:53:58.049 --> 01:54:03.059
Fulfillment is being able to
fulfill, to see through, to bring to

01:54:03.059 --> 01:54:10.829
fruition one's projects, but not in
a way that exhaust kills the soul.

01:54:11.279 --> 01:54:11.699
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:54:12.029 --> 01:54:16.859
The outcomes for us are never about, you
know, the bottom line and the profit.

01:54:16.859 --> 01:54:19.289
Of course, you've gotta make a business
and there, there are people that

01:54:19.289 --> 01:54:22.199
are looking at that of course, but.

01:54:23.944 --> 01:54:25.739
Rupert Isaacson: And yet you
have made it very successful.

01:54:25.919 --> 01:54:26.399
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:54:26.399 --> 01:54:30.449
But the, the, you, you sustain your
success by people being aligned

01:54:30.449 --> 01:54:35.309
with you, you know, so positive
outcomes are about people going, wow.

01:54:35.309 --> 01:54:37.079
Oh my god, mommy, did you see this?

01:54:37.139 --> 01:54:37.199
Yeah.

01:54:37.199 --> 01:54:38.879
Like, that's a positive outcome for us.

01:54:38.879 --> 01:54:41.909
It's not just about
the pennies in the pot.

01:54:42.089 --> 01:54:42.179
Right.

01:54:42.299 --> 01:54:43.949
That doesn't inspire anybody.

01:54:43.949 --> 01:54:44.729
Well, it shouldn't.

01:54:44.929 --> 01:54:49.849
And, and I think again, it, it, it is
having a team that get off on seeing

01:54:49.849 --> 01:54:55.249
those reactions, you know, that really
like the, the, the scale of how we

01:54:55.249 --> 01:55:00.109
review a project is not just built
on, you know, those, those set things.

01:55:00.109 --> 01:55:01.789
It is about how does it feel?

01:55:02.269 --> 01:55:02.899
How does it,

01:55:02.929 --> 01:55:03.109
Rupert Isaacson: yeah.

01:55:03.649 --> 01:55:06.139
Laura Chesterfield: What, what,
what, what does it do for somebody?

01:55:06.919 --> 01:55:11.499
Rupert Isaacson: And yet you are, your
family is the, and listeners, you should

01:55:11.499 --> 01:55:16.159
go and listen to the early podcast
we did in 2023 with Laura's father,

01:55:16.159 --> 01:55:19.189
Tim, Tim Smit, you, your brothers.

01:55:20.629 --> 01:55:26.689
Your dad, your mom, you are one of the
great British entrepreneurial families.

01:55:26.689 --> 01:55:28.759
You actually, I know you guys
don't think of yourselves that way.

01:55:28.909 --> 01:55:33.169
And I think that's the one of the
beauties of it, you know, is, is but

01:55:33.169 --> 01:55:37.729
you are, I mean, you guys have made
incredibly successful businesses

01:55:37.729 --> 01:55:42.169
out of enchantment and good causes.

01:55:42.809 --> 01:55:44.519
No, but you were never
in it for the money.

01:55:45.269 --> 01:55:45.659
Never.

01:55:45.664 --> 01:55:45.784
Laura Chesterfield: No,

01:55:46.289 --> 01:55:46.559
Rupert Isaacson: no.

01:55:46.769 --> 01:55:47.904
Laura Chesterfield: We
just wanted a pig farm

01:55:50.444 --> 01:55:51.104
Rupert Isaacson: and you got one

01:55:51.374 --> 01:55:53.744
Laura Chesterfield: with
all 11 rare breeds a pig.

01:55:53.969 --> 01:55:55.019
Like that was the dream.

01:55:55.019 --> 01:55:55.079
Yeah.

01:55:55.319 --> 01:55:58.129
It's still a dream, you
know, it's it, yeah.

01:55:58.129 --> 01:56:02.149
If you, you, if you lead
with heart and heart and joy

01:56:02.629 --> 01:56:02.869
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:56:02.929 --> 01:56:04.159
Laura Chesterfield: You
end up with heart and joy.

01:56:04.159 --> 01:56:05.749
That's, you know,

01:56:05.749 --> 01:56:08.659
Rupert Isaacson: so listen, we're,
we're absolutely, I couldn't agree more.

01:56:08.659 --> 01:56:12.649
If you lead with heart and joy,
you get heart and joy wise words.

01:56:14.209 --> 01:56:16.339
As we approach now, the.

01:56:17.104 --> 01:56:20.674
Our mark, I think there will be people
who are listening who might actually

01:56:20.674 --> 01:56:23.104
appreciate some mentorship from you.

01:56:23.794 --> 01:56:25.654
You are now available for hire.

01:56:26.194 --> 01:56:29.434
So lo, it's LoRa, LoRa Studios, right?

01:56:29.434 --> 01:56:29.464
Lova

01:56:30.544 --> 01:56:30.814
Laura Chesterfield: yeah,

01:56:30.994 --> 01:56:31.414
Rupert Isaacson: sorry.

01:56:31.799 --> 01:56:32.089
Laura Chesterfield: Lova.

01:56:32.369 --> 01:56:33.329
LOWE.

01:56:33.759 --> 01:56:35.194
Rupert Isaacson: Lova with a V.

01:56:35.824 --> 01:56:36.154
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:56:37.324 --> 01:56:41.344
Rupert Isaacson: Those people
listening, I cannot recommend enough

01:56:41.614 --> 01:56:50.404
getting, if you are in a business or
needing to put ideas together, Laura

01:56:50.404 --> 01:56:54.544
and the family that she comes out
of that is, is pretty breathtaking.

01:56:54.814 --> 01:56:58.024
Go and have a look at Halligan
Online, had Lost Gardens of Halligan.

01:56:58.294 --> 01:57:01.144
Go and have a look at the Eden
Project and now how, if they do

01:57:01.144 --> 01:57:02.759
want to reach out for you mm-hmm.

01:57:03.004 --> 01:57:07.354
For mentorship, and I think I might
be actually how do we contact you?

01:57:07.354 --> 01:57:08.734
Give us the, the plugs.

01:57:09.299 --> 01:57:09.629
Laura Chesterfield: Okay.

01:57:09.629 --> 01:57:13.259
So, I mean, really, really
only just sort of launching.

01:57:13.259 --> 01:57:14.859
So, so it's very exciting.

01:57:14.859 --> 01:57:19.169
So Lober Studios dot com is the website.

01:57:19.359 --> 01:57:21.639
That's the best place to
get a hold of me currently.

01:57:21.859 --> 01:57:25.879
And maybe we can put some details on
the bottom of the podcast of, of, of how

01:57:25.879 --> 01:57:27.679
Rupert Isaacson: we will We'll, we'll,
we'll make sure that's in there.

01:57:27.679 --> 01:57:29.959
Low enva studios.com.

01:57:30.229 --> 01:57:30.409
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:57:30.509 --> 01:57:36.599
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, if you've got
products you want to have a story told

01:57:37.199 --> 01:57:37.289
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:57:37.289 --> 01:57:37.439
These

01:57:37.439 --> 01:57:40.049
Rupert Isaacson: guys know
how to do it in spades.

01:57:40.649 --> 01:57:40.889
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah.

01:57:40.999 --> 01:57:43.549
Rupert Isaacson: I'm gonna
look forward with Beta breath

01:57:43.549 --> 01:57:46.369
to see how you do with this.

01:57:46.424 --> 01:57:50.289
Thank and there's some projects I
think I'd like to bring you in on.

01:57:50.829 --> 01:57:51.009
Perfect.

01:57:51.009 --> 01:57:52.119
So we should talk about that.

01:57:52.599 --> 01:57:52.869
Laura Chesterfield: Very happy.

01:57:52.869 --> 01:57:52.989
Okay.

01:57:53.499 --> 01:57:53.679
Yeah.

01:57:54.189 --> 01:57:54.399
Thank you.

01:57:54.729 --> 01:57:55.389
Rupert Isaacson: All right, my friend.

01:57:55.389 --> 01:57:57.219
Well, thank you so much.

01:57:57.549 --> 01:58:00.749
And perhaps we'll have you back on in a.

01:58:01.349 --> 01:58:02.699
Year or so when you've, yeah.

01:58:02.999 --> 01:58:04.469
Got some interesting
projects under your belt.

01:58:04.469 --> 01:58:05.339
Tell us what you did.

01:58:05.669 --> 01:58:06.419
Laura Chesterfield: Yeah, for sure.

01:58:06.419 --> 01:58:07.409
That would be wonderful.

01:58:07.559 --> 01:58:08.279
Thank you.

01:58:08.306 --> 01:58:11.686
Rupert Isaacson: I hope you enjoyed
today's conversation as much as I did.

01:58:12.516 --> 01:58:16.266
If you did, please help us to make more.

01:58:16.266 --> 01:58:20.146
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01:58:20.596 --> 01:58:25.846
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01:58:26.166 --> 01:58:26.516
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01:58:26.716 --> 01:58:29.896
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01:58:30.286 --> 01:58:34.236
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01:59:13.041 --> 01:59:16.591
I can't wait for our next guest
and also to meet you there.

01:59:17.391 --> 01:59:21.181
In the meantime, remember, live free.

01:59:22.111 --> 01:59:22.661
Ride free.