1 00:00:02,580 --> 00:00:05,040 Neil McPhedran: Welcome to Continuing Studies, a podcast for higher 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:08,730 education podcasters who want to learn, connect, and to get inspired. 3 00:00:08,850 --> 00:00:13,770 I'm Neil McPhedran, founder of Higher Ed Pods and Podium podcast company. 4 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,440 Jennifer-Lee: And I'm Jennifer Lee, founder of JPod Creations. 5 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:18,990 If you're podcasting in higher ed, you are not alone. 6 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:21,880 There is a fast growing community out there and we're 7 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:23,200 here to help you tap into it. 8 00:00:23,380 --> 00:00:24,100 Neil McPhedran: That's right Jen. 9 00:00:24,190 --> 00:00:30,460 And for Higher Ed Pod Con in July in Cleveland, the cutoff for 10 00:00:30,460 --> 00:00:36,070 speaker submissions is the end of February, so that's coming up. 11 00:00:36,310 --> 00:00:40,690 We've got a whole bunch of really good ones in, but 'cause we're going 12 00:00:40,690 --> 00:00:46,060 to two days, we've got that many more slots and so get your submissions in. 13 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:51,113 The website, higheredpodcon.com has all the details. 14 00:00:51,113 --> 00:00:53,236 If you have any questions, happy to answer it. 15 00:00:53,236 --> 00:00:56,596 If you're thinking about something and you're not quite sure, reach out. 16 00:00:56,866 --> 00:01:00,136 I would love to chat with you about this. 17 00:01:00,346 --> 00:01:00,826 Jennifer-Lee: Yeah. 18 00:01:00,826 --> 00:01:00,836 And. 19 00:01:01,426 --> 00:01:03,406 Ideas as well for the show. 20 00:01:03,406 --> 00:01:04,471 If there's anything that, uh, 21 00:01:04,611 --> 00:01:04,991 Neil McPhedran: our show 22 00:01:05,371 --> 00:01:07,606 Jennifer-Lee: but our show, we'd love to hear from you too. 23 00:01:07,846 --> 00:01:12,526 And speaking of ideas for Higher Ed Pod Con , actually one of our 24 00:01:12,526 --> 00:01:14,416 guests today is going to submit. 25 00:01:14,686 --> 00:01:17,566 I'm really excited because we have people that we interviewed. 26 00:01:17,626 --> 00:01:19,936 I wanna say they were one of the first five, 27 00:01:19,936 --> 00:01:21,256 Neil McPhedran: one of our first five episodes. 28 00:01:21,916 --> 00:01:24,166 Jennifer-Lee: Neil and I have worked with them since on 29 00:01:24,166 --> 00:01:26,176 their podcast Innovation Fuel. 30 00:01:26,386 --> 00:01:32,686 So in this episode we talk to Dave Keighron and Dr. Gelareh 31 00:01:32,706 --> 00:01:39,151 Farhadian, who has had Innovation Fuel, the podcast for five years. 32 00:01:39,151 --> 00:01:42,421 They were working under University Canada West. 33 00:01:42,781 --> 00:01:47,341 I've been with them for over four years, bringing their podcast 34 00:01:47,341 --> 00:01:48,901 to life on the production side. 35 00:01:49,001 --> 00:01:52,271 Neil McPhedran: The last four have have been much better than the first season. 36 00:01:52,391 --> 00:01:53,531 Jennifer-Lee: Oh, thank you. 37 00:01:53,741 --> 00:01:54,851 That was a great answer. 38 00:01:55,301 --> 00:01:55,841 Good answer. 39 00:01:56,471 --> 00:02:00,611 This is co-host synergy and that's what I learned about Dave and Gelareh, they 40 00:02:00,611 --> 00:02:02,621 have great co-host synergy as well. 41 00:02:02,891 --> 00:02:08,051 And Neil, you've even helped us recently do the big move because it was time to 42 00:02:08,051 --> 00:02:13,661 move on from University of Canada West and Neil, along with the awesome people 43 00:02:13,661 --> 00:02:19,276 at Podium Podcast Co, and JPod Creations, and we moved them to be their own entity 44 00:02:19,276 --> 00:02:21,106 where they've created their own business. 45 00:02:21,106 --> 00:02:21,466 So 46 00:02:21,556 --> 00:02:23,910 Neil McPhedran: yeah, that was quite the projects actually, Jen, you've 47 00:02:23,910 --> 00:02:27,789 recently helped them make another move, which has moved their hosting over to 48 00:02:27,789 --> 00:02:31,889 TrueFans, Sam Sethi's new hosting product. 49 00:02:31,949 --> 00:02:33,089 I think that's super exciting. 50 00:02:33,299 --> 00:02:34,079 Jennifer-Lee: Yeah, I'm really excited. 51 00:02:34,079 --> 00:02:38,519 Sam has been amazing at helping us, uh, move it over and we're learning. 52 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,589 It's a good thing to learn and this is something for our audience that, 53 00:02:41,959 --> 00:02:46,579 if you are creating a podcast now with a particular institution or a 54 00:02:46,579 --> 00:02:50,839 company, your podcast could change hands or move on to different people. 55 00:02:51,169 --> 00:02:56,149 And if you can't just move a podcast simply by putting another platform. 56 00:02:56,149 --> 00:02:59,599 So, lot lots to dig into with Dave and Gelareh. 57 00:02:59,729 --> 00:03:02,879 and I'm really excited because it's been a few years and there's been quite 58 00:03:02,879 --> 00:03:05,049 a few changes lots to catch up on. 59 00:03:05,259 --> 00:03:06,429 Neil McPhedran: So much to catch up on. 60 00:03:06,579 --> 00:03:07,659 let's jump into our chat. 61 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,220 Jennifer-Lee: So how are you guys today, Dave and Gelareh? 62 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:12,900 Dave Keighron: Amazing. 63 00:03:12,900 --> 00:03:16,890 Glad to be back here and glad to share our adventure 'cause we've been on an 64 00:03:16,890 --> 00:03:20,760 adventure, a lot of adventures and, and seen some really unique stories 65 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,310 along the way and now we're taking those and we're accelerating them. 66 00:03:23,510 --> 00:03:23,810 So 67 00:03:23,930 --> 00:03:24,950 Gelareh Farhadian: Thank you guys. 68 00:03:24,950 --> 00:03:30,050 First, I want to send my condolences to my people of Iran for this modern massacre. 69 00:03:30,140 --> 00:03:31,430 Thanks for being here guys. 70 00:03:31,430 --> 00:03:32,270 Thank you very much. 71 00:03:32,270 --> 00:03:34,550 Neil McPhedran: Thank you for re reminding us about that too. 72 00:03:34,730 --> 00:03:34,970 Yeah. 73 00:03:34,970 --> 00:03:38,870 So maybe since we last met with you but why don't you just give us the 74 00:03:38,870 --> 00:03:41,810 top line and then let's dig into some of these evolutions that you 75 00:03:41,810 --> 00:03:43,430 guys have encountered along the way. 76 00:03:43,610 --> 00:03:46,430 Dave Keighron: So when we first started this journey, we saw a gap in the 77 00:03:46,430 --> 00:03:49,370 market and the gap in the market was that we wanted these small businesses 78 00:03:49,370 --> 00:03:52,350 coming in, and their stories coming into the classroom and interacting 79 00:03:52,350 --> 00:03:56,080 with students because a lot of the domestic based product in Canada is 80 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:57,610 small businesses, medium businesses. 81 00:03:57,610 --> 00:03:58,960 We wanna to bring those into the classroom. 82 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,830 Fast forward from that, since we last chatted, we had lots of success that 83 00:04:02,830 --> 00:04:05,050 we've interviewed lots of different companies that have gone on to do 84 00:04:05,050 --> 00:04:08,680 some really great things and we're like, oh my God, we gotta take those. 85 00:04:09,110 --> 00:04:10,370 Tell their story further. 86 00:04:10,580 --> 00:04:13,880 We need to bring those and show how those businesses have evolved. 87 00:04:14,150 --> 00:04:17,120 And Gelareh came up with a great idea to do that and is through publication 88 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:18,410 and peer review publication. 89 00:04:18,710 --> 00:04:22,280 So we brought that in and we started taking those stories after the fact, 90 00:04:22,280 --> 00:04:25,910 three, six months later, bringing them back and then taking 'em into publication 91 00:04:25,910 --> 00:04:30,960 and having them published in big journals like Sage and Emeralds, Ivey, ILE School 92 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,630 of Business where we're gonna, a variety of different places where we've been 93 00:04:33,630 --> 00:04:35,085 very successful in getting these across. 94 00:04:35,690 --> 00:04:39,260 And from that, we also thought, hey, the other part that we're really 95 00:04:39,260 --> 00:04:42,830 struggling with is how do we get this back into the classroom for faculty 96 00:04:42,830 --> 00:04:44,030 to be able to engage with further? 97 00:04:44,330 --> 00:04:48,920 And so we've now created a thing called Innovation Fuel Studio, where we use 98 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:53,450 artificial intelligence to bring it back into the classroom and help the faculties 99 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,525 activate these cases and activate the students in playing with them. 100 00:04:56,990 --> 00:05:01,370 Gelareh Farhadian: I want to add that is, so Innovation Fuel is started to build 101 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:06,530 cases studies, you know, that's was the first objective of the Innovation Fuel. 102 00:05:06,980 --> 00:05:12,410 So the cases studies are just a structured narrative and showing 103 00:05:12,660 --> 00:05:16,680 challenges of entrepreneur or founder or directors on the special issues. 104 00:05:16,950 --> 00:05:21,390 And then it is how we can connect them to the theories as well. 105 00:05:21,510 --> 00:05:26,730 When we start writing the cases that was because we had those questions 106 00:05:26,790 --> 00:05:31,290 around the structures, questions that around theories as well, right? 107 00:05:31,290 --> 00:05:37,560 So it was easy for us to turn them in the written cases and go to the peer 108 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:44,060 reviewed platform like Sage, Ivey, Emerald or Case Centers, so those are as well. 109 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:49,160 However, we know that the generative AI come with the challenges for faculty 110 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:54,320 that they actually really, really want make sure students are learning and 111 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,210 there is going to be critical thinking. 112 00:05:56,270 --> 00:06:00,890 There is two mode as the day sets a faculty mode, so they have 113 00:06:00,890 --> 00:06:03,020 the case through the podcast. 114 00:06:03,230 --> 00:06:07,220 Or in the teaching node of the published case study. 115 00:06:07,250 --> 00:06:09,170 So they have a faculty mode. 116 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:14,720 When they unlock the faculty mode, they can create assignments, lesson 117 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:20,390 plans, rubrics, and also they can build role play with the founder 118 00:06:20,390 --> 00:06:22,940 or the C or director as well. 119 00:06:23,330 --> 00:06:28,190 So in the student mode, a student will say that, okay, I'm working on this case. 120 00:06:28,190 --> 00:06:29,840 Automatic, the case will pop up. 121 00:06:30,365 --> 00:06:34,385 And it's a summary and the link of the case, the student can listen to that one. 122 00:06:34,685 --> 00:06:39,275 They will say that, okay, now I want to work on this, the first challenge. 123 00:06:39,365 --> 00:06:43,805 And then they have to present their recommendation to the CEO through 124 00:06:43,805 --> 00:06:47,615 the ai, and they have to start roleplaying and try to convince 125 00:06:47,615 --> 00:06:49,595 the CEO of their presentations. 126 00:06:49,940 --> 00:06:55,610 We try to simulate the role play with the founder, CEO or directors, that 127 00:06:55,610 --> 00:07:01,040 who was the host of the case, and that is students will never, ever, 128 00:07:01,100 --> 00:07:03,530 ever get the solutions through the ai. 129 00:07:03,770 --> 00:07:07,670 They just try to convince it with the facts data. 130 00:07:07,700 --> 00:07:13,010 They can bring it from the case or from the publicly available data. 131 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:13,640 Neil McPhedran: Wow. 132 00:07:13,940 --> 00:07:14,810 There's so much there. 133 00:07:14,870 --> 00:07:19,050 It's amazing sort of where you guys have gone since we last chatted. 134 00:07:19,260 --> 00:07:22,080 I wanna kinda roll back a little bit here and click on some of 135 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:23,280 these things along your path. 136 00:07:23,310 --> 00:07:24,480 'cause you've put a lot together here. 137 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:29,040 So when we chatted with you last, what you were doing was you were taking the 138 00:07:29,130 --> 00:07:34,750 traditional educational way for business school of case studies and each one 139 00:07:34,750 --> 00:07:37,995 of those was an episode, essentially. 140 00:07:37,995 --> 00:07:40,365 So each episode was a case study. 141 00:07:40,575 --> 00:07:43,395 Before we kinda jump back into the AI stuff, I think what's interesting 142 00:07:43,425 --> 00:07:47,115 is, 'cause we've talked about this on some of our previous episodes here 143 00:07:47,205 --> 00:07:53,025 about the scholarly output of podcasts or your podcast being the scholarly 144 00:07:53,025 --> 00:07:54,915 output, which is what you were doing. 145 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,935 But since we last spoke with you, you've taken this extra step of 146 00:07:58,935 --> 00:08:02,505 putting it through peer review and getting it submitted to journals. 147 00:08:03,115 --> 00:08:05,305 Can you tell us a little bit more about that? 148 00:08:05,355 --> 00:08:08,515 Like that, that is super interesting 'cause there's a lot of people 149 00:08:08,515 --> 00:08:09,685 talking about that right now. 150 00:08:09,955 --> 00:08:12,775 Gelareh Farhadian: There is several ways you can do, put 151 00:08:12,775 --> 00:08:15,595 your podcast as a scholarly work. 152 00:08:15,955 --> 00:08:21,230 So one thing is that you find several peer review to review all your episodes. 153 00:08:21,470 --> 00:08:26,750 And they say that, okay, we, we reviewed this episode and it's a theoretically 154 00:08:26,930 --> 00:08:30,380 rigor as well, and also is academic rigor. 155 00:08:30,380 --> 00:08:34,550 And then the questions are not biased, not the leading. 156 00:08:34,910 --> 00:08:39,950 So, and those are the way you can peer reviewed your own podcast only, so that 157 00:08:39,950 --> 00:08:42,560 will be part of your scholarly work. 158 00:08:42,875 --> 00:08:46,655 So when you, for example, record the episode on February, for example, 159 00:08:46,685 --> 00:08:51,125 2026, in six months later or a year later, you have to go back to that 160 00:08:51,125 --> 00:08:55,115 same episode and see what was the development of this case, right? 161 00:08:55,325 --> 00:08:59,915 So that can be your story and narrative for written cases, study as well. 162 00:09:00,295 --> 00:09:04,045 And then what challenges they are facing and the teaching note as well. 163 00:09:04,045 --> 00:09:06,565 So what Dave and I did to prove it. 164 00:09:06,565 --> 00:09:10,585 So we brought those written cases to our classrooms and actually 165 00:09:10,585 --> 00:09:14,275 used it and refine it to make sure that it's doable in the classroom. 166 00:09:14,605 --> 00:09:17,875 So it's a 90 minutes or it's a going to be group assignments. 167 00:09:17,875 --> 00:09:21,385 So it's very important you test your own cases before even 168 00:09:21,385 --> 00:09:22,945 thinking about it can go further. 169 00:09:23,185 --> 00:09:27,235 But the other ways of doing this is, that's what Dave and I are doing, 170 00:09:27,385 --> 00:09:29,905 working on several different papers. 171 00:09:30,195 --> 00:09:35,745 Papers about, for example, connecting these entrepreneurial discourse theories. 172 00:09:36,105 --> 00:09:40,755 So this is on several papers we are either with be submitted 173 00:09:41,055 --> 00:09:45,855 or we are working to finish the manuscripts of those one sets Datas. 174 00:09:46,005 --> 00:09:50,475 What is a trend, for example, regarding SDG entrepreneurship, constraints 175 00:09:50,625 --> 00:09:55,695 in BC or Canada or ecosystems, or another paper that we are working is 176 00:09:55,695 --> 00:10:00,595 about how the podcast can impact a student learning in the classroom. 177 00:10:00,595 --> 00:10:07,225 So what we did over a year, we exposed specific classrooms with the episodes and 178 00:10:07,225 --> 00:10:12,835 then we had go through this methodology of before we ring and afters, we have 179 00:10:12,835 --> 00:10:16,405 different surveys, and then focus group with the students to see how 180 00:10:16,405 --> 00:10:18,125 it's going to impact their learning. 181 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,590 It is really important how you can bring those content because you are 182 00:10:22,590 --> 00:10:26,820 creating lots of data and information and content, how you're going to 183 00:10:26,820 --> 00:10:30,750 connect them, how you're going to find the dots between them, not just 184 00:10:30,750 --> 00:10:33,390 on the isolated episodes as well. 185 00:10:33,660 --> 00:10:36,870 And also it's because you want those good narratives. 186 00:10:36,930 --> 00:10:42,600 is really important to see what your podcast trying to achieve regarding 187 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:44,760 the learning of the students, right. 188 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,495 And then it can find good data and 189 00:10:49,245 --> 00:10:52,155 Dave Keighron: like Gelareh said, it's the s opportunity for future learning. 190 00:10:52,155 --> 00:10:54,555 Hey, we went through this element over the last five years. 191 00:10:54,855 --> 00:10:55,905 We peer reviewed these elements. 192 00:10:55,905 --> 00:10:57,530 We'd also taking study from this element. 193 00:10:58,200 --> 00:10:58,920 To see, Hey. 194 00:10:58,920 --> 00:10:59,040 Neil McPhedran: Mm-hmm. 195 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,500 Dave Keighron: What is a better practice for the way we can deliver this? 196 00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:02,940 How can we teach entrepreneurship better? 197 00:11:03,150 --> 00:11:04,560 How can we teach marketing better? 198 00:11:04,770 --> 00:11:08,340 And even to the point is that we're going, the next evolution that Jen 199 00:11:08,340 --> 00:11:12,300 sort of alluded to is we have another podcast called Marketing Corner Talks. 200 00:11:12,300 --> 00:11:13,350 It's focused on marketing. 201 00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:17,100 We have another podcast called Education Action where it's focused on the 202 00:11:17,100 --> 00:11:21,540 practice of education and the teaching of experiential learning in those 203 00:11:21,540 --> 00:11:23,370 elements and all with the same elements. 204 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,260 How do we leverage artificial intelligence? 205 00:11:25,260 --> 00:11:26,540 How do we Leverage peer review. 206 00:11:26,750 --> 00:11:30,830 How do we leverage study in order to enhance that classroom experience? 207 00:11:30,890 --> 00:11:33,320 Jennifer-Lee: And Gelareh's been so good at getting all 208 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,090 these papers in the journals. 209 00:11:35,090 --> 00:11:37,190 Uh, I know about one of them. 210 00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:39,830 Can you tell us a little bit about how you got into London? 211 00:11:40,070 --> 00:11:44,150 Gelareh Farhadian: So when we wanted to publish a case, we, you are 212 00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:48,320 thinking about which venue is your best and can get more attention of it. 213 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,470 So when you publish your case, you can see that how many people 214 00:11:51,470 --> 00:11:53,120 are using it actually, right? 215 00:11:53,180 --> 00:11:57,080 And also you always need a consent from the founder as well, right? 216 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:04,725 So to publish their cases, uh, unless, for example, many case venue, they are looking 217 00:12:04,725 --> 00:12:10,575 what happened next or something that it's not in this publicly available, right? 218 00:12:10,815 --> 00:12:14,475 So if you're using something very internal and ask the founder to tell 219 00:12:14,475 --> 00:12:18,405 something in confidence to you in this email or, but their own word, 220 00:12:18,585 --> 00:12:20,055 you can use it in teaching notes. 221 00:12:20,055 --> 00:12:23,865 So when you're doing it, you need to have a concept from the founder as well. 222 00:12:24,195 --> 00:12:27,225 So that was another process and that was really good. 223 00:12:27,995 --> 00:12:30,425 Dave Keighron: One other thing to note here is that one of the things 224 00:12:30,425 --> 00:12:33,725 that we're doing and what podcast has the advantage of doing is 225 00:12:33,725 --> 00:12:35,239 that we have up to date content. 226 00:12:35,269 --> 00:12:39,469 One of the challenges that we face as faculty is the content you're getting 227 00:12:39,469 --> 00:12:43,189 sometimes is so way outdated that it doesn't have any relevancy anymore. 228 00:12:43,189 --> 00:12:47,899 So in this element and building these is creating a funnel of our library or 229 00:12:47,899 --> 00:12:50,389 resources of continuously updated content. 230 00:12:51,149 --> 00:12:53,369 That's going to be more relevant to students and more connected 231 00:12:53,369 --> 00:12:54,719 to what their future's gonna be. 232 00:12:54,809 --> 00:12:55,469 Neil McPhedran: Oh, interesting. 233 00:12:55,709 --> 00:12:59,699 So do they have to pay to put these submissions forward 234 00:12:59,699 --> 00:13:00,929 for some of these journals? 235 00:13:01,074 --> 00:13:02,664 Gelareh Farhadian: We never faced this one. 236 00:13:02,664 --> 00:13:07,134 So even we have these open access journals. 237 00:13:07,139 --> 00:13:07,229 Mm-hmm. 238 00:13:07,524 --> 00:13:09,534 We never faced something they want to pay. 239 00:13:09,534 --> 00:13:13,434 And also some venue actually pay you to do it, 240 00:13:13,524 --> 00:13:13,884 Neil McPhedran: right? 241 00:13:13,944 --> 00:13:14,994 Yeah, more so they should. 242 00:13:15,564 --> 00:13:22,604 And so is there a separate designation for it being a podcast versus a written 243 00:13:22,844 --> 00:13:25,064 or a more traditional monograph? 244 00:13:25,454 --> 00:13:27,014 Gelareh Farhadian: What do you mean designations? 245 00:13:27,074 --> 00:13:29,204 Neil McPhedran: Oh, I just like, like how do they categorize it? 246 00:13:29,204 --> 00:13:33,044 Like, like if, if the output is the podcast, like how does that, does 247 00:13:33,044 --> 00:13:37,244 it, is it differentiated when you, when I go into the case center, for 248 00:13:37,274 --> 00:13:40,604 example, and they've sort of, of course, so they're actively grouping 249 00:13:40,604 --> 00:13:43,754 together podcasts as a scholarly out. 250 00:13:43,754 --> 00:13:45,584 Gelareh Farhadian: I mean, again, just by. 251 00:13:46,014 --> 00:13:50,844 You know what is a scholarly output is, is it's about peer reviewed, right? 252 00:13:50,849 --> 00:13:50,979 Yeah. 253 00:13:50,984 --> 00:13:54,804 So you need someone review your work and say that it's rigor, 254 00:13:54,804 --> 00:13:56,364 it's methodology, correct? 255 00:13:56,364 --> 00:13:57,534 Is it ethical? 256 00:13:57,534 --> 00:13:58,824 All of those stuff, right? 257 00:13:59,274 --> 00:14:03,864 So by just recording your podcast, you cannot count as your scholarly 258 00:14:03,924 --> 00:14:05,994 work unless it'll be peer reviewed. 259 00:14:06,234 --> 00:14:12,704 Again, so one way of doing it is that each podcast as we do is a written case, right? 260 00:14:12,704 --> 00:14:17,477 So some of them, for example, Emerald, they have three phase of three different 261 00:14:17,477 --> 00:14:19,277 people review your work, right? 262 00:14:19,277 --> 00:14:21,827 So it may, that's why it takes time. 263 00:14:22,007 --> 00:14:28,427 So for example, if you submit your case today in any platform, Ivey, 264 00:14:28,597 --> 00:14:34,167 Sage, Emerald, even International Open Access journal, I mean all of them. 265 00:14:34,347 --> 00:14:37,827 It may takes minimum six months to finish it. 266 00:14:37,827 --> 00:14:39,357 Sometimes a year, right? 267 00:14:39,447 --> 00:14:39,657 Neil McPhedran: Yeah. 268 00:14:39,687 --> 00:14:43,017 Gelareh Farhadian: So that is a, you may see it as a constraint for sure. 269 00:14:43,047 --> 00:14:46,437 That's why it's giving this peer review and its count as 270 00:14:46,437 --> 00:14:47,937 your scholarly work, right? 271 00:14:48,057 --> 00:14:48,147 Mm-hmm. 272 00:14:48,207 --> 00:14:52,857 But we don't want just to stop and wait for one year to get published. 273 00:14:52,857 --> 00:14:55,377 So that's why you try recording the episode. 274 00:14:55,527 --> 00:14:59,427 And also, again, you need to find a place that. 275 00:14:59,737 --> 00:15:02,677 Review podcasts, academic podcasts. 276 00:15:02,727 --> 00:15:07,877 To review episode, all the episodes not just one episode and written one. 277 00:15:08,117 --> 00:15:08,957 Neil McPhedran: Mm. Okay. 278 00:15:09,137 --> 00:15:10,157 Jennifer-Lee: That's a lot of work. 279 00:15:10,247 --> 00:15:10,577 Neil McPhedran: Yeah. 280 00:15:10,577 --> 00:15:10,637 Yeah. 281 00:15:11,357 --> 00:15:12,791 Gelareh Farhadian: It's, you need a lot of patient. 282 00:15:12,871 --> 00:15:13,981 Neil McPhedran: Well, that's the process. 283 00:15:13,981 --> 00:15:17,581 I mean, overall, like for submitting to these journals, right? 284 00:15:18,001 --> 00:15:18,811 I mean, it is. 285 00:15:18,811 --> 00:15:22,231 It's a system that's been built over decades 286 00:15:22,231 --> 00:15:22,921 Gelareh Farhadian: that's reliable. 287 00:15:22,921 --> 00:15:27,151 That's why you can say that it is, when something come published from them, it's 288 00:15:27,151 --> 00:15:31,711 been reviewed several time, and some people will put the stamp on set and 289 00:15:31,711 --> 00:15:33,511 say that this is valid, it's reliable. 290 00:15:33,511 --> 00:15:33,871 Dave Keighron: Mm-hmm. 291 00:15:34,171 --> 00:15:34,441 Gelareh Farhadian: Right. 292 00:15:34,471 --> 00:15:34,741 Yeah. 293 00:15:34,746 --> 00:15:37,801 If the self, if it's just the self-published, who can 294 00:15:37,801 --> 00:15:39,481 say it's valid, reliable. 295 00:15:39,721 --> 00:15:40,771 Who can say that? 296 00:15:41,071 --> 00:15:42,271 Neil McPhedran: Interesting, interesting. 297 00:15:42,271 --> 00:15:46,561 So, okay, so maybe we should, let's dig back into the next evolution, 298 00:15:46,561 --> 00:15:49,951 which is back to this AI whole process you guys have developed. 299 00:15:49,951 --> 00:15:52,201 That's super, super interesting. 300 00:15:52,261 --> 00:15:54,771 So you're then taking these cases and you've created this whole 301 00:15:54,771 --> 00:15:56,781 AI wrapper around it basically. 302 00:15:57,476 --> 00:15:59,426 Dave Keighron: So like one of the challenges is how do you get 303 00:15:59,426 --> 00:16:00,566 it back in the classroom again? 304 00:16:00,596 --> 00:16:03,266 Like how do you get that activated in the classroom? 305 00:16:03,266 --> 00:16:06,506 And so AI technology is here now we gotta figure out how to 306 00:16:06,506 --> 00:16:09,176 use AI technology within, and, and Gelareh makes some points. 307 00:16:09,176 --> 00:16:11,396 So we've been very purposeful and very meaningful here. 308 00:16:11,511 --> 00:16:11,631 'cause. 309 00:16:12,246 --> 00:16:15,786 Ethics and ethical use of this element, and especially in institutions mm-hmm. 310 00:16:15,786 --> 00:16:19,386 Has been very challenging and trying to figure out the, navigate that element. 311 00:16:19,386 --> 00:16:23,766 And so we've already found a technology that's within AI called RAG technology, 312 00:16:23,766 --> 00:16:26,916 and she can talk to you about the rag technology piece, but how do we put 313 00:16:26,916 --> 00:16:29,826 barriers around this element and still bring it back in the classroom where 314 00:16:29,826 --> 00:16:34,326 the faculty can use it to develop these cases to to assignments, and then where 315 00:16:34,326 --> 00:16:35,736 students can actually interact with it. 316 00:16:35,741 --> 00:16:35,901 So. 317 00:16:36,386 --> 00:16:38,756 Neil McPhedran: I love that full circle, if you will. 318 00:16:38,756 --> 00:16:42,446 So it's for the classroom and then it's going through a whole peer review, 319 00:16:42,566 --> 00:16:46,466 get it published into a journal, and then you're taking it back into the 320 00:16:46,466 --> 00:16:52,281 classroom to apply and to learn and to probably evolve things as you go. 321 00:16:52,281 --> 00:16:52,731 Gelareh Farhadian: It is. 322 00:16:52,731 --> 00:16:56,601 And also just say that it is, it's not just for faculty and a student. 323 00:16:56,601 --> 00:17:02,601 Also, it has to be benefit for entrepreneurs and CEO or founders to come 324 00:17:03,051 --> 00:17:05,571 to be played the role in these ecosystem. 325 00:17:05,571 --> 00:17:05,961 Right? 326 00:17:06,261 --> 00:17:10,851 Another things for them, it's not only be heard in a different platforms, 327 00:17:10,851 --> 00:17:15,381 not just a podcast, but also be in the academic journals as well, and. 328 00:17:15,766 --> 00:17:20,686 They can get benefit from the results of those, what students 329 00:17:20,686 --> 00:17:22,486 provide or faculty can provide it. 330 00:17:22,486 --> 00:17:26,626 And see that's, I mean, try to resolve their challenges and also 331 00:17:26,626 --> 00:17:30,166 even so, we are trying the next step. 332 00:17:30,206 --> 00:17:33,691 We are building a chat bot for our episodes. 333 00:17:33,691 --> 00:17:35,521 We have the contents of all episodes. 334 00:17:35,521 --> 00:17:35,761 Neil McPhedran: Smart. 335 00:17:36,481 --> 00:17:39,961 Gelareh Farhadian: You can ask questions about, for example, the challenge. 336 00:17:39,991 --> 00:17:44,041 I have challenge of this, for example, fundraising in Canada, so we can 337 00:17:44,101 --> 00:17:49,076 give you the several episode that is related to that one as well, so you 338 00:17:49,076 --> 00:17:52,466 as an entrepreneur can listen to the other entrepreneurs and see that's how 339 00:17:52,466 --> 00:17:56,486 they resolved their issues in about fundraisings and how they did it. 340 00:17:56,876 --> 00:18:01,106 And the same chatbot can work for faculty as well to find, for example, 341 00:18:01,106 --> 00:18:06,026 they say that I want to have a cases related to technology adaptation 342 00:18:06,026 --> 00:18:07,916 model, and then say that, okay. 343 00:18:07,966 --> 00:18:10,306 These are the cases can be related to those. 344 00:18:10,606 --> 00:18:11,956 We are in the middle of developments. 345 00:18:11,956 --> 00:18:13,096 We're in testing phase. 346 00:18:13,096 --> 00:18:15,976 Actually you're testing to see what the next step will be 347 00:18:15,976 --> 00:18:17,856 connecting to the InnovationFuel.Ca 348 00:18:17,956 --> 00:18:20,416 Jennifer-Lee: And question, because I know that Dave and I talked about 349 00:18:20,416 --> 00:18:23,746 this before, and you see this as something that's gonna become like a 350 00:18:23,746 --> 00:18:25,906 subscription services for teachers. 351 00:18:25,966 --> 00:18:26,116 Dave Keighron: Yeah. 352 00:18:26,116 --> 00:18:28,816 So we're at the post that again, at the beginning stages of this, someone 353 00:18:28,816 --> 00:18:32,056 we're testing to see what really, 'cause again, we're solving a problem and we're 354 00:18:32,056 --> 00:18:33,256 trying to find solutions for a problem. 355 00:18:33,256 --> 00:18:36,256 We gotta put the user in there and figure out what works best for the user. 356 00:18:36,436 --> 00:18:37,876 And I think in this early stage, yes. 357 00:18:37,931 --> 00:18:41,621 Eventually we gotta figure out how to monetize it in a different way. 358 00:18:41,621 --> 00:18:45,371 And we've talked about the membership subscription based element, but yeah, 359 00:18:45,371 --> 00:18:47,051 we're still, we're still early days. 360 00:18:47,381 --> 00:18:47,741 Neil McPhedran: Yeah. 361 00:18:48,071 --> 00:18:53,831 Well, I, I, I think what's great is that so often academic work research. 362 00:18:54,381 --> 00:18:58,821 In this case, business, case studies get, go into these journals and they it, 363 00:18:58,881 --> 00:19:01,221 and it just stays in the academic world. 364 00:19:01,221 --> 00:19:05,631 I love how you, you what you guys are not bringing it back into the classroom, 365 00:19:05,871 --> 00:19:09,501 but the point you just made, which just really resonated with me is, 366 00:19:09,501 --> 00:19:13,431 is like there's making it accessible for outside of the classroom for the 367 00:19:13,431 --> 00:19:15,471 entrepreneurs, the practical side of it. 368 00:19:15,471 --> 00:19:19,341 So it's like, it's like making all this research and these learnings and 369 00:19:19,341 --> 00:19:21,436 these insights open to the general. 370 00:19:21,841 --> 00:19:25,531 In, you know, audience, in this case entrepreneurial world, which is 371 00:19:25,711 --> 00:19:25,951 Gelareh Farhadian: Yeah, 372 00:19:25,951 --> 00:19:26,641 Neil McPhedran: super cool. 373 00:19:26,731 --> 00:19:31,261 Gelareh Farhadian: It's, it's often is that when you look at the academy outputs 374 00:19:31,261 --> 00:19:37,201 papers or cases study, maybe it won't be much for the public audience, right? 375 00:19:37,441 --> 00:19:42,211 But when it's come talking about some narratives, it's one entrepreneur 376 00:19:42,211 --> 00:19:46,291 telling their experience with the wording of the other entrepreneurs, it can 377 00:19:46,291 --> 00:19:48,061 resonate or it can be useful for them. 378 00:19:48,321 --> 00:19:51,951 Jennifer-Lee: I think it's just so cool because like you're really taking 379 00:19:51,951 --> 00:19:55,551 the words off the page, and like you said, Gelareh, you're able to hear the 380 00:19:55,551 --> 00:19:58,281 authenticity of the entrepreneur's story. 381 00:19:58,281 --> 00:19:59,541 You're taking it to the next level. 382 00:19:59,541 --> 00:20:03,861 It's not just you reading it, it's actually hearing their emotion. 383 00:20:03,861 --> 00:20:04,611 And it's hard. 384 00:20:04,611 --> 00:20:05,301 It's hard. 385 00:20:05,301 --> 00:20:07,596 So it'd be nice to have a resource like that. 386 00:20:08,136 --> 00:20:10,206 And one thing before we go, just another piece. 387 00:20:10,206 --> 00:20:11,346 We didn't touch on something else. 388 00:20:11,366 --> 00:20:12,866 With Innovation Fuel. 389 00:20:12,866 --> 00:20:16,346 Dave, something you and I have been working on with Innovation Fuel is 390 00:20:16,346 --> 00:20:21,416 Douglas College is taking our episodes and putting it in their library. 391 00:20:21,416 --> 00:20:21,536 Neil McPhedran: Oh Cool. 392 00:20:21,536 --> 00:20:22,586 Jennifer-Lee: Tell us a little about that. 393 00:20:22,586 --> 00:20:26,216 Dave Keighron: We actually were involved in a library at UCW with a podcast 394 00:20:26,216 --> 00:20:28,316 before, and now they're going in. 395 00:20:28,601 --> 00:20:31,391 Douglas is just taking over and taking those further into 396 00:20:31,391 --> 00:20:32,681 the library to the journal. 397 00:20:32,681 --> 00:20:34,631 Gelareh's the best one to explain how this works 398 00:20:34,631 --> 00:20:38,171 Gelareh Farhadian: When you want to see your episode in your Google Scholar, 399 00:20:38,441 --> 00:20:40,571 so you cannot just add manually. 400 00:20:40,571 --> 00:20:42,941 Yes you can, but it's not very valuable, right? 401 00:20:42,941 --> 00:20:47,951 So you need to have a publisher, an academic publisher. 402 00:20:47,951 --> 00:20:51,611 You're like a universities, and they're open library. 403 00:20:51,971 --> 00:20:55,301 So it's like a academic home for your episodes. 404 00:20:55,481 --> 00:21:00,611 When you have that episode, an academic library, then automatically it'll 405 00:21:00,611 --> 00:21:04,871 shows in your Google Scholar and it can shows as your scholarly work. 406 00:21:05,111 --> 00:21:07,271 Jennifer-Lee: I forget just 'cause I'm working with a, a law on 407 00:21:07,271 --> 00:21:10,166 all these different projects and it's been really exciting to work 408 00:21:10,211 --> 00:21:12,971 with you guys for over four years and see how you guys have grown. 409 00:21:13,031 --> 00:21:16,061 Neil McPhedran: But, and we'll put links to, we'll make sure that we've, we get. 410 00:21:16,406 --> 00:21:20,096 It links to everything we just talked about here, so I think it would be 411 00:21:20,096 --> 00:21:22,046 great for people to see this in action. 412 00:21:22,046 --> 00:21:26,816 So how does this look in the Douglas College Library and any, 413 00:21:26,816 --> 00:21:28,016 anything you sort of wanna share? 414 00:21:28,016 --> 00:21:30,926 I know stuff's in iteration, so we probably can't share everything but. 415 00:21:31,296 --> 00:21:35,286 We will share as much as we can in the show notes, links to all this 416 00:21:35,286 --> 00:21:36,606 amazing stuff you guys are building. 417 00:21:36,846 --> 00:21:40,476 Gelareh Farhadian: You can find the, I will share the innovation 418 00:21:40,476 --> 00:21:41,886 field studio link with you. 419 00:21:41,916 --> 00:21:46,386 However, it's so easy if you k, go to your chat GPT and 420 00:21:46,386 --> 00:21:49,236 just in the apps search for us. 421 00:21:49,506 --> 00:21:49,896 Yes. 422 00:21:49,926 --> 00:21:51,306 In You've got a very, yeah. 423 00:21:51,306 --> 00:21:53,406 Innovation Fuel Studio just will comes up. 424 00:21:53,946 --> 00:21:54,276 Neil McPhedran: Awesome. 425 00:21:54,306 --> 00:21:55,116 Okay, that's great too. 426 00:21:55,236 --> 00:21:57,966 Well, I think this has been a fantastic conversation. 427 00:21:57,966 --> 00:22:02,376 I mean, congratulations on so many things that you've accomplished since 428 00:22:02,376 --> 00:22:07,806 we last spoke and we're excited to keep seeing your progress and we'll 429 00:22:07,806 --> 00:22:11,856 have to get you back on another 60 some odd episodes basically. 430 00:22:11,886 --> 00:22:15,036 'cause I hope you'll have to hear how you've continued to train 431 00:22:15,036 --> 00:22:18,576 the AI and to continue to move forward with all exciting things. 432 00:22:18,576 --> 00:22:18,696 You've, 433 00:22:18,726 --> 00:22:20,016 Jennifer-Lee: thank you guys so much. 434 00:22:20,046 --> 00:22:20,556 Thank you. 435 00:22:20,556 --> 00:22:20,856 Gelareh Farhadian: Thanks. 436 00:22:20,856 --> 00:22:21,216 Thank you. 437 00:22:21,221 --> 00:22:21,401 Bye. 438 00:22:22,961 --> 00:22:24,791 Jennifer-Lee: I'm still trying to wrap my head around what they're 439 00:22:24,791 --> 00:22:26,951 doing and I work with them daily. 440 00:22:26,951 --> 00:22:28,511 I think what they're doing is amazing. 441 00:22:28,541 --> 00:22:28,781 Neil McPhedran: Wow. 442 00:22:28,811 --> 00:22:31,871 That was a conversation jam packed with information. 443 00:22:31,871 --> 00:22:38,681 Gelareh has so many ideas and she's doing so many cool things, Dave too, 444 00:22:38,711 --> 00:22:41,871 but Gallari really had some stuff that she really shared with us here. 445 00:22:41,896 --> 00:22:42,216 I love that. 446 00:22:43,221 --> 00:22:45,951 Jennifer-Lee: I think their whole idea is brilliant, and I think like 447 00:22:45,951 --> 00:22:49,131 a lot of the people that we've had on our podcast recently, they're kind of 448 00:22:49,131 --> 00:22:53,001 cutting edge and, and they're doing the groundwork that's gonna lead to some 449 00:22:53,001 --> 00:22:56,781 really neat innovations in the future when it comes to higher ed podcasting. 450 00:22:56,791 --> 00:22:57,961 Neil McPhedran: yeah, I totally agree. 451 00:22:57,961 --> 00:22:58,291 Jen. 452 00:22:58,351 --> 00:23:04,411 It's interesting how our last few episodes have really been looking at a little bit 453 00:23:04,411 --> 00:23:14,251 more forward facing future and ways to use podcasting from an academic, scholarly, 454 00:23:14,491 --> 00:23:20,041 teaching perspective, and I think that's what's super exciting about this space. 455 00:23:20,251 --> 00:23:26,791 Not only is podcasting such an amazing channel form for folks in higher 456 00:23:26,791 --> 00:23:33,721 education, it is also a platform that is part of the teaching process. 457 00:23:33,966 --> 00:23:39,906 And is attached to so much that is going on in the AI world as well, too. 458 00:23:40,026 --> 00:23:41,196 Great episode. 459 00:23:41,196 --> 00:23:44,166 Thank you for bringing them back on, Jen. 460 00:23:44,216 --> 00:23:48,416 Jennifer-Lee: it's also neat to just see how we're archiving history now 461 00:23:48,416 --> 00:23:52,136 and we're documenting it, like the fact that Douglas College is on board and 462 00:23:52,136 --> 00:23:55,526 taking all their podcast episodes and putting them in their audio library. 463 00:23:55,526 --> 00:23:58,656 So I think it's just a really neat thing that we're starting to see. 464 00:23:58,896 --> 00:23:59,346 Neil McPhedran: That's great. 465 00:23:59,586 --> 00:24:00,996 Yeah, I totally agree. 466 00:24:01,296 --> 00:24:04,596 Jennifer-Lee: Thank you for tuning into the Continuing Studies podcast, a 467 00:24:04,596 --> 00:24:07,296 podcast for higher education podcasters. 468 00:24:07,536 --> 00:24:10,776 We hope you found this episode informative and inspiring. 469 00:24:10,776 --> 00:24:14,076 If you enjoyed the show, we encourage you to follow and subscribe to our 470 00:24:14,076 --> 00:24:17,706 podcast on your preferred platform, so you'll never miss an episode. 471 00:24:17,776 --> 00:24:21,256 But if you found this episode pretty valuable, please consider sharing 472 00:24:21,256 --> 00:24:24,076 it with your friends and colleagues who also might be interested 473 00:24:24,076 --> 00:24:26,056 in higher education podcasts. 474 00:24:26,086 --> 00:24:29,746 We also invite you to join your peers on higher ed pods.com, where you can connect 475 00:24:29,746 --> 00:24:33,946 with other podcasters in higher education and learn from others in the field. 476 00:24:33,946 --> 00:24:35,896 Thank you for being part of our community. 477 00:24:35,896 --> 00:24:39,526 We look forward to continue to bring new, valuable insights in conversations 478 00:24:39,856 --> 00:24:41,776 around higher education podcasts. 479 00:24:41,776 --> 00:24:43,066 See you on the next episode. 480 00:24:43,306 --> 00:24:43,966 Neil McPhedran: Bye-bye.