Welcome to the Maine Farmcast. I am your host, Dr. Colt Knight, associate extension professor and state livestock specialist for the University of Maine. And today, we are joined by special guest, director of tropical seeds, Eduardo Stern from Miami, and colleague, Dr. Jaime Garzon, our state forage educator. It's great to have both of you with us here today on the podcast.

And great to be here as well, Colt.

Thank you. Yes. It's great to be here too.

Well, Eduardo, let's start with you. Maybe you could introduce yourself, talk about your company, tropical seeds, and why you're here in Maine this week.

Yes. Of course. Thank you. Thank you for the invitation, first of all. Good morning.

My name is Eduardo Stern. I'm the director of Tropical Seeds, which is a company based in Florida, in Miami. It was founded in 2003. That's when I came to the United States. I'm originally from Mexico.

We had a company in Mexico called Papalotla, which basically deals with tropical grasses improved tropical grasses. So one of my objectives to come to the United States is to expand this usage of tropical grasses. And And that's how we started. 10 years down the road, we noticed through our distributors, mainly in Florida, that cover crops were an important aspect in the new trend of agriculture and cattle grazing, not only to protect the soil, but also to be a complement for animal feed.

Well, I think that was very important. And actually, because of those tropical grasses and seeds, was the way that I meet Eduardo for the first time when I was doing my PhD at the University of Florida. In there, we are working well, not only me, the all the tropical project tropical program that are working with the university, they are working with a lot of tropical grasses, vahia grass, Bermuda grass. In my case, I'm working with a shinomeni. That is a legume over there.

And that was, like, the main contact that we have. And, of course, one of the species that Eduardo is working now, it's some legumes, that is my background, that are working better for summer season. So actually, at the moment, he is working with some hemp. That is one of the legumes that I like it. I worked with that as well in Florida.

It's I was so surprised to see how tall that legume can grow in just 2 months, especially because, as you may all all you may know, legumes here in Maine are kind of complicated to establish because they are slow, they are delicate, and they need a lot of time for establishment.

Yeah. And when you say sunn hemp, you're not talking about a marijuana or a CBD variety. This is a forage species and not a fiber or medical species.

Well, yeah, that is a very good difference to do because usually when people listen hemp, they are, like, directed to another topic, especially here in Maine, that we have a very good industry about that. Actually, sunn hemp is a completely different species. We are not talking about those molecules that the hemp are producing and where people are interested. Usually, because of the highest growth that the sunn hemp has, that plant came from India, and it was worked first as fiber, just to produce clothes. But here we are, with professor Ben Draminie, that was my previous advisor in Florida, we detected that because of this high growth, this legume can be used also as forage, can be also as a cover crop.

So actually, it will protect the soil, it will provide nutrients, and this is a very good choice to make, like, organic fertilization.

Yeah. And that's the whole purpose of our podcast today is to discuss cover crops. Historically, would you say that Maine has used a lot of cover crops in the past?

Well, you know that, actually, I'm not I'm kinda new here, but I know that Maine has a very strong program in cover crops, because those are used not only for livestock, but also for cash crops. For example, the potato industry, the blueberry industry, they need to put something in the soil when the potatoes are not growing. I know that in the north, it's very well used alfalfa that is very common for us as forage, but there is like another choice that we can use because alfalfa is very, very picky. So that's why another, legume that we are working about, and well, I I am working with some hemp right now, but another possibility that Eduardo is offering me is about hairy vetch. That is another legume that can be used in winter, like, in very cold so cool soils, and we are detecting if that will survive the winter and how much is the productivity after that.

And I think cover crops, after the last few winters that we experienced, cover crops are gonna be increasingly more important because if we're not gonna stay frozen the whole winter and covered in snow the whole winter, there's a real potential for a lot of erosion issues, and cover crops can help prevent that. Correct? Yes.

Cover crops really, we use the motto, we are utilizing a new cover crop talking about sunhemp, which is Crotalaria juncia that has been in the world, particularly in Southeast Asia, for 1000 of years. Actually, I think that the sun hemp is responsible that there's no more degraded land in such a monoculture area, which is, I think, is the most an antiquing in our civilization because it rises preceded precedes corn and wheat. So thanks to this cover crop, there's less degraded land. So what we're trying to do is to understand, to know its characteristics. And one of the things that has impressed us, we sell most of our cover crop, of course, it's in the southern states of the United States, in Florida.

But there's starting to to be a very important demand in the northern states of the United States. So we we are really very interested in to see where does, Sungham has a possibility to give the producer the richness that it has. It's it's it's been utilized as I speak even all the way in in the Dakotas. So even in Canada, so I we're trying to find out where in the agronomical, cycle can, the sun can be utilized, but particularly, for example, in potato because one of its characteristics is that it really has a very important nematode control.

And just to take a step back, if if our listeners are not familiar with cover crops or why we utilize cover crops, I mean, what are the benefits of cover crops?

Usually, when you're talking about cover crops, it's that plant that you will use between the crops that you are dealing with in your farm. So the one that you call cash crops. So usually, these cover crops, as the name it says, it will protect the soil. That is the main function of them. They are just trying to avoid erosion.

They are keep providing nutrients and sequestering carbon. So that is very important now that we know what happened with climate change. However, another very important aspect when you are using cover crops is it it's better if you're using legumes. Because with the legumes, they are not only sequestering carbon, they are also fixing nitrogen. And the nitrogen is one of the main nutrients that the grasses and any forage will need.

Usually, any grass is always starving of nitrogen. So if you have, like, a cover crop that at the same time is protecting the soil and giving nitrogen from the air to the soil by free, that is a very good choice for our producers here.

So we're getting a couple benefits. We are protecting the land, and we are producing feed that we can utilize or sell off the farm.

And not only for the animals, because remember that here and that is like a a new concept. That is not only the feed that you are providing for your animals, it's also the feed that you are providing to the soil. Because remember that after every grazing, every harvest, you are extracting nutrients from the soil. And it is good, it is a good practice, if you return those nutrients to the soil later. So a common practice with a cover crop, if you are not selling that product or giving that to your animals, you can incorporate that to the soil, and that will be nutrient that will be released, and that will help the next crop that is coming.

I had this discussion with a group of livestock producers just last week. We were talking about, carbon inputs, regenerative agriculture, and and so on and so forth. And I said, you know, one of the benefits of having something on your farm that produces soil nutrients and amendments is we're not having to ship them in and buy them and put them on our fields because, you know, things like urea, those can come all the way overseas from Saudi Arabia. The the carbon footprint on bringing in some of those soil amendments is is tremendous. And we don't have access to the poultry litter anymore because the the large poultry producer shut down in Maine.

And we don't have the human sludge option anymore because we now know that that's full of forever chemicals that that's not great for the environment or or human ingestion. So so we're really kinda limited. So exploring these lower carbon footprint options is actually highly beneficial to the environment and to producers.

And besides of that, remember that this cover crop is a good choice or good option for organic producers. Because in this case, we are not dealing with, like, some with something that is artificial produced outside. So it's a choice for them.

So with that being said, Jaime, you have a project going at the moment, and you and Eduardo are planning on maybe doing some projects in the future here in Maine. Maybe you guys could could get into those.

Well, that the thing started is because I have previous experience with SunHemp for Florida. And I talking with my other colleagues here at the University in Cooperative Extension, they told me that they tried the sunn hemp before. But the problem was that they didn't grow well, the weeds covered everything, and at the end, the the the yield was not good. So I was wondering, okay, that's for real because this is a summer crop that likes warm soils. But which varieties was it at that moment?

Which which kind which kind of they worked? They don't know. And even checking, because this is not something new, there is some seed dealers that are selling the sunhemp. But usually, when you see the variety is not stated. So that's why I went to Eduardo and asked him, okay, do you have anything that can work in these places that are cold?

Because of course we don't have the warm temperature that we have in Florida. So one of the questions that I have from there is how that sit from Spain come? What is the history between that sit in Spain?

Well, actually, the the seed that we are working with is is not from India. It's it's from Thailand. And Thailand is very interesting country for seed production. They have been producing seed, legumes and forages for 20, 30 years in brachyarras, in other tropical grasses. And I've been we've been working with Thailand since many years.

So when we started to see the need of cover crops to bring into the United States, we have very good relations with companies and with producers, with local producers in Thailand. So we took some seed to Spain, some of the Crotalaria to Spain, to see several Crotalaria has maybe 300 different varieties of junzi only. So there are many. So we took them to Spain. They passed 2 winters.

We took them back to Thailand. And then from there, we started bringing and introduced it here. It's not that it's going to resist the winter, but it can start you cannot plant it for the winter. Crotalaria, it won't it won't grow. It needs luminosity.

But it has a possibility, because it's an annual legume. So it's going to die anyhow. So you need to know how to utilize it. And the way that we have utilized it, it's either before or after the corn immediately. And then you integrate it into the soil.

And then we have these other alternatives of winter cover crops that we hope that they will stand the winter. And then you can have actually even one cut for animal feed. So there's a lot of research ongoing in the crotalaria in our sun. That's why we try to bring different types of qualities and varieties for different purposes.

So at this moment, in Old Town, I just started a trial thinking, okay, if I have this variety that are coming from Spain, that they are more adapted to cool weather, how that will work in our summers here in Maine? So I just planted a crescent variety, that is the name, and the other one that is So actually, I'm just checking how will be the performance, how tall they will be, how much productivity they will have, and if possible, how is the quality. Because you that is remember that those nutrients are the ones that you want to return to the soil. And maybe later, in the future, I'm thinking to try this other legume that can overpass the winter, the hairy vetch. And even if that is not new in Maine, I know that our other colleague Jason Lilly, he's working at this moment with some hairy vetch just to check-in how far they can plant that plant that will survive the winter and will produce a good yield just starting the spring.

So that's something to come in the future, hopefully.

Yeah. And and the other species you guys were talking about is the hairy vetch.

Yes. Yes.

And and what do you think the future of that looks like here?

I think very promising because after whatever crop you will harvest, let's say corn, which is one of the important ones in Maine, you plant a cover crop for the winter. It not only will protect your soil, it starts to fixate nitrogen and do its thing with the soil. And then what we're trying to prove is that at the end of the winter, when everything thaws, it will regrow. And it will allow you to have one cut for animal feed. So that's this is the experiment that we hopefully will do this winter.

And and I don't know if I can go back a little bit to the to the sunn hemp, is that even though it's a warm season, it's a tropical legume, You can plant it. Usually, when you start planting your, your grasses, it's in spring summer here in in Maine Yes. When you when you when you replant your grasses. So sunhemp is very, very good help if you can, include it in your mixtures with any type of tempered glass grass that you can that you can grow. It will help establish the grass better because it will control, noxious weeds, and it will start giving some nitrogen for the grass.

The the legume will disappear. And the the objective is not that the legume to to to be preserved. It's to disappear. It's a help for your main planting.

And just to to to to additional things. Remember that in this case, our main interest with the sunn hemp in summer and with the hairy vetch in winter is also to control weeds. Because both of them are legumes, so are broad leaves, and you know that many of the weeds that we have here in Maine are broad leaves as well. Of course, there is not an option to apply some herbicides, especially for organic producers. So actually, it's something that we are checking is if I plant some hemp with any other help, with any other fertilization, just the seed, That will, like, overstand the weeds in summer, and that could be something good if you are later incorporating the whole thing to the soil.

Same situation happened with the hairy vetch. What will in beginning of spring, usually the wheat explosion that we have after the snow melts, it's it's something that you will differentiate. So what what will happen if at that moment we have a plant that is already established, that will grow, that is very viney. So, actually, it will look for the sun. Maybe it can overpass the weeds, and after that, it will provide some food for the animals before the grazing season starts.

And when we have these cover crops, are we planning on just leaving them in the pasture as as forage for the animals to graze on? Are we gonna cut it and chop it? Are we making baleage, Hay? I mean, how how are we gonna utilize these cover crops come springtime?

Going with the springtime, we have the advantage to the hairy vetch that actually, if it survived the winter, you can graze it directly. So you just wait at the moment when the muddy season ends, at the moment when you can put your animals on your pasture, and they can start eating the hairy vetch, maybe at the moment with the meadow foxtail that probably it will be growing at that moment. But a very good diet just for the start of the year. With the sunn hemp, that is the studies that have been happening in in Florida. Sunn Hemp, because of those elements that had that protects crops against nematodes, we have those have some alkaloids.

So actually, that is something that could be anti nutritional for animals. But the research is looking that these alkaloids are focused on flowers and seed pods. So actually, if we can just incorporate the plant or or harvest it before flowering, you can process that as, for example, doing some haylage, or even in some part, they make pellets with that. And it's a very nutritive source, high protein, and you can provide that to your animals.

As long as you don't let it flower, which is very manageable, you won't have any risk. And just to mention something on the side, these are the varieties that that we are dealing with of Sunhemp are the least Toxic. Toxic. Mhmm. Yes.

And and we I'm going to send you for next year one that we call mini hemp, red mini, which is a sunhemp that really grows very slow. So it can be utilized for grazing while your grass is growing.

Oh, okay. That that will be something interesting, especially having the sun the summer slump that we have here in Maine. That could be an interesting choice to see.

Yes. So

if that that sunn hemp is allowed to go to flower and seed out, is that like an alkaloid toxicity that's in those, kinda like a fescue? Or

Yes. Exactly. Usually, if there is well, as as Eduardo said, the the, like, original varieties had that situation where they'd accumulate those alkaloids, and, they that that probably will affect the liver. But the new varieties, with all the improvement in genetics, they are trying to figure and create new varieties that will lower a little that amount of antinutritional factors. But even with that, having maybe that concentrated more in the roots, that because that is the thing that people like a lot.

For for example, I know that in Florida, strawberry and tomato industry loves some hemp because it controls the nematode population. And I know that also that is an issue with some crops here in Maine.

Very good. Well, is there anything else that you guys would like to go over on cover crops before we sign off?

Well, I think that, cover crops are here to stay. I think that when we start utilizing and incorporating and discovering how to incorporate our cover crops, either in cash crops or in animal grazing, we will have a more sustainable production process in the future with less inputs, agrochemicals that you will be using. So it's a slow process, but I think that it's something that is worth reviewing. And I'm very happy that we can do here this here with Jaime at the University of Maine. But I am very positive and that we will make an impact in this in in this beautiful state.

And I hope that we can have another talk in a year from now and see what happens.

And, yeah, for sure. Well, here in Maine, we have many practices that we need to have in our farms just to be productive. And something that is important is just to try to maintain a forage budget, so a constant source of food for our ruminants for our livestock in general. So cover crops is a very good choice if you want to fit those spaces when the normal source of food, say, hay, say, the grazing grass is going low because of drought, because of flood, because of the summer slump. So this cover crop is a choice to apply more versatility to our productions.

And that, I think, is very important, knowing the variability that we are having in our weather and all that thing that we need to cope in the situation to have a good operation.

Alright. Eduardo, I know you haven't been in Maine very long, but what's your favorite thing so far?

It's so difficult to say it. It's, actually, I came here with a family, and we are camping in Searsmont. Nice. And it's beautiful. I mean, you are very privileged people to have such a beautiful state.

Yeah. I agree with you there. Eduardo, Jaime, thanks for coming on the main farm cast and discussing cover crops and and some new potential legumes that might establish well here in the state.

Thank you for the invitation and welcome. Glad to be here.

Thank you very much for the invitation. Very happy.

Hey, folks. Don't forget to send us questions, comments, and suggested episodes to email extension.farmcast@maine.edu.