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Hello and welcome to Tier
One Interventions podcast.

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Today we are taking an excerpt
out of a live event that John Lee

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hosted earlier this month in June.

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Hope you enjoy the excerpt, and
I'd like to hear what you have to

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say about how this episode ends.

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What do you think she is sharing with us?

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we are here to talk about
the science of math.

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Which may or may not be
a thing at this point.

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Some people think it's a thing and some
people that think it's a thing have

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defined it in many of the wrong ways.

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I'm here today to set the record
straight and I want us to be the front

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runners in this whole movement so
that it doesn't get all wackadoodle.

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Please feel free today to ask
questions, to interrupt me, to make

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comments, to give your own opinions.

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I'm gonna say a lot of things
that you're gonna disagree with.

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You're allowed to disagree with
me, and you're allowed to tell

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me that you disagree with me.

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That is what is going to move math
forward is when we get amped up.

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Because this is cognitive science of
math, we are gonna be talking a lot

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today about how the brain learns.

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Did anybody notice anything on
the screen while I was talking?

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I.

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Ah, Daphne.

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I knew you would notice.

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You are like the most aware person.

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Anybody else notice anything on
the screen while I was talking?

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Did you notice the last slide?

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What was on the last slide?

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Look at, you.

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See, you're my new friends from Monday.

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You guys are my old friends.

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You guys are my new friends
from Monday, and I can just

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tell that you are pretty slick.

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Okay.

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When we are talking about the brain,
so I'll go back to the first slide.

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You can look at the screen now, but when
we're talking about the brain, I think

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everything here is spelled correctly.

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That was the, that was intentional there.

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But then as I was talking, I
changed slides and some of these

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words changed up a little bit.

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Okay.

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Raise your hand if you did
not notice any of that.

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Why do you think that was?

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Cheri?

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Yeah.

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'cause I kept moving around and
you're like, Jonily, I told you just

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to stand up front and she probably
told me 67 times and I'm sorry.

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I know.

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Why do you think that was, that
maybe you didn't notice what

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was happening with the screen?

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Yeah, because what was happening?

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Yes.

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Very nice.

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Yes.

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Our brains sometimes only focus on the
first and last, and our brains adjust for

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those mistakes, but also the movement.

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Why else do you think you didn't notice?

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Yeah, Joan.

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Exactly.

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What else?

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Today we're gonna talk about a lot of the
parts of the brain and how the brain makes

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us do things and makes us not do things.

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And that really is what describes
the science of mathematics

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or the science of anything.

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The science of basically means.

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It's a collection of research.

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The science of doesn't mean, okay,
here's the script, here's the program.

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Here's the thing.

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It just says, we have collected over
time a bunch of research that the

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common theme is X, Y, and Z. For math
today, we're gonna talk about what those

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common themes are, and some of them
are gonna be very counterintuitive to

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what we think about for mathematics.

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I first really need to talk a
little bit about the science of

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reading, which I am not an expert.

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I will not claim to be an expert.

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However, you can't help this
thing being in your face recently.

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Okay?

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The science of reading is
a collection of research.

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I wanna make it very clear
that reading is an action.

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Reading is not innate.

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We're not born with the skill of reading.

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And reading must be explicitly taught.

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Any additions to that?

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Yes.

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Say it again.

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We're gonna also talk about why sensory
inputs are so important to learning

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and understanding mathematics today.

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Those of you that are familiar
with the science of reading,

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you've been down that path.

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If you're not familiar with the science of
reading, just know that it is absolutely

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the opposite of the science of number.

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Now, the science of
mathematics is two things.

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The science of mathematics
is procedural and conceptual.

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The science of mathematics
is in two categories.

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Number and ability.

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Number and ability.

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The science of ability of math is much
more directly related to the teaching

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strategies of the science of reading.

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Let me say that again.

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Math ability is one category.

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And math ability category is much
more related to the science of

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reading, meaning procedurally,
it needs to be explicitly taught.

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It's not something that anyone is just
going to figure out in the book that you

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each have at your seat making Math Iners.

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This defines the two categories I just
mentioned, so I'm not gonna go into a lot

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of deep detail because it's in the book.

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Math Ability is the category that
is closely related to reading.

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Math ability must be explicitly taught.

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However, students have a better
chance of achieving with math ability

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when we study the science of number.

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The other category is
number or number sense.

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Reading is one category.

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There's one way to do it.

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As I've been told, again,
I'm not the expert.

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I just know enough to be dangerous.

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I just know enough to make
this analogy to mathematics.

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The science of reading is parallel
and related to the science of

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math ability, but it is the exact
opposite of the science of number.

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Talk at your tables.

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30. Let's do 45 seconds
about that last statement.

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Science of reading
related to math ability.

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The opposite of the science of number.

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Talk for 45 seconds at your tables.

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Go.

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I like a lot of urgency
in our conversations.

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I like a lot of urgency for students.

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The brain feeds on urgency and deadline.

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If I said for the next five minutes you're
gonna talk about that last statement.

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The best productivity of your
conversations really is gonna happen

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in the first 45 seconds anyway.

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Sometimes we think we
don't have enough time.

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Oh, tweet this.

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Sometimes we think we don't have
enough time, but we actually

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are spending too much time.

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Oh, I could have you talk about that, but
someone just tweeted at minds on math.

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Anyway, number sense is the door
to entering math achievement.

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Math achievement is the overall
umbrella for the two categories.

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Math, ability, and number sense.

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Math ability is the explicit
procedural step by step.

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Number sense is the
opposite of all of that.

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Number sense is the door to
opening up all math achievement.

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If we can improve number sense, we can in
turn very easily improve math achievement.

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We are gonna focus all day
today on the number sense.

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If you came here today to
learn how to better teach long

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division, I got nothing for you.

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Actually, I do have something for you.

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Just do.

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Just do.

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Yes.

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But just show it and kids will
mimic, just do the mimicking thing.

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It's just typical instruction.

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Any procedure is just, if I want kids
to follow direction, step by step

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for a procedure, then I just do it.

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However, that is not number sense and it
is not the gateway to math achievement.

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Number sense is the door to
overall math achievement.

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By improving number sense and
focusing on number sense, we

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can then improve math ability.

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We're not gonna talk a lot
about the math ability today.

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We're only gonna focus on
the number sense piece.

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If number sense is the door to opening
math achievement, then counting is what's

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going to launch and enhance number.

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Number senses the door to opening
math achievement, which will a

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byproduct is to increase math ability.

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But if we want to increase number sense,
which is the ultimate goal, the first

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and last step is improving number sense.

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And if we want to do that, the
foundational piece is counting.

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And counting is the key to
unlocking the number sense door.

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Now this analogy is important.

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Because talk to me.

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Let me go back and say it again and then
I, we're not gonna release, I just want

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you to tell me whole group if number sense
is the key to unlocking math achievement.

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And I say counting is the key
to unlocking number sense.

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Tell me about that.

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Yeah, Tim,

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say that.

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Speak louder.

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Sure.

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Oh, you know what?

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Do the mic, because
we're, I have to use this.

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We were looking at our test
scores and what we found out

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was that the numbers sense was
affecting the application process.

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On our assessments.

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Some of the questions that we did
well on the number sense was there.

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The other ones traced it back to
not having number sense skills

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which directly impacted the result
of the application question.

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, We've realized how the number
sense is really a major push still.

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And that we need to make sure that
foundation is strong no matter what we do.

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However, when we say we're doing
improvements to number sense, we are

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actually on the math achievement route.

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I'm just gonna get real
down and dirty today.

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We want to and here is the
only thing you need to hear

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today to improve number sense.

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You just must do daily count, daily
counting exercises, and every session

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today, I'm gonna give you another
example of a daily counting exercise.

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And that's what I want you to walk
away with a daily counting exercise.

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I just want kids to count
and count efficiently.

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Counting is innate.

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We are born with the ability to count.

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All fish can count, all animals can count.

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This is the whole predator prey.

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A predator can look and see
if there is a large group of

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prey or a small group of prey.

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That is estimation.

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Students that have dyscalculia
struggle with estimation.

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We are born with a certain
level of number sense.

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That's different than
the skill for reading.

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We are born with number.

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It is innate.

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It is intuitive.

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However, we're all born
with a certain level.

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Some stronger than others.

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Number sense can be improved.

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And as I already said it, it
is improved by counting period.

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That's it.

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That's the only answer.

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Number sense is improved by counting, but
number sense cannot be explicitly taught.

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Like reading

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number sense can be improved
through counting and also through

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sensory, multisensory, visual
conceptual, contextual experiences.

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And throughout today, in every single
session, you're gonna see example

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after example of everything that goes
back to counting and number sense.

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On the next slide, I'm gonna show
you a quick dot and show you the

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screen for about three seconds.

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I'm gonna take it away and then I want
you to tell me how many dots you saw.

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Perfect.

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How many, just call it out 30.

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What?

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Some good.

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I like it.

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A lot or a little.

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See, this is what I do with my K one kids.

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Okay?

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This is how we start to use
some of those description words.

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Where there a lot.

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Where there?

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A little Where there a ton.

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Where there a million.

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You can already see how that dot image
is differentiated for all ability levels.

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Okay?

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Somebody else said 30.

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What else?

242
00:13:48,631 --> 00:13:49,081
How many?

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80. 65.

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Love it.

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See, Audrey, you so fancy.

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Fewer than a hundred.

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How?

248
00:14:03,831 --> 00:14:04,500
How many?

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00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,310
One other.

250
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Now I'm gonna show you another one.

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00:14:11,851 --> 00:14:12,871
I'm gonna show you another one.

252
00:14:12,871 --> 00:14:13,260
Ready?

253
00:14:13,950 --> 00:14:16,050
How many dots on this next slide?

254
00:14:22,411 --> 00:14:23,071
How many.

255
00:14:25,350 --> 00:14:28,140
90. How many

256
00:14:30,570 --> 00:14:31,200
say it again?

257
00:14:32,790 --> 00:14:34,680
16 times five

258
00:14:37,290 --> 00:14:38,010
80.

259
00:14:38,970 --> 00:14:45,035
Here's what I'm gonna tell you, there
were the same number of dots here as here.

260
00:14:48,405 --> 00:14:53,220
What's the difference and what's
the same talking your table groups?

261
00:14:53,490 --> 00:14:54,810
One minute go.

262
00:15:26,445 --> 00:15:31,456
Two, one, and I'm not gonna
have you share out on this one.

263
00:15:31,665 --> 00:15:34,095
I want you to understand
the subtleties of today.

264
00:15:34,095 --> 00:15:36,405
I wanna engage you in the
mathematics today, but you're gonna

265
00:15:36,405 --> 00:15:38,085
miss a lot of the facilitation.

266
00:15:38,246 --> 00:15:39,925
I wanna point it out to you.

267
00:15:40,115 --> 00:15:44,526
Notice when I did the first release for
45 seconds, I brought you back together.

268
00:15:44,526 --> 00:15:45,966
Did I have anybody share out?

269
00:15:49,896 --> 00:15:54,305
Okay, and then the next time I didn't
release you into tables, I just had

270
00:15:54,305 --> 00:15:59,196
a share out, and then this time I
released you and we're not sharing out.

271
00:15:59,376 --> 00:16:01,266
I want you to just
notice those subtleties.

272
00:16:01,266 --> 00:16:04,055
We're gonna talk about those things
later today because of, oftentimes

273
00:16:04,325 --> 00:16:07,716
you'll come to a session like this and
you'll get great ideas and you'll have

274
00:16:07,716 --> 00:16:12,216
a good time and things will be great,
but you'll miss what made it happen.

275
00:16:12,266 --> 00:16:18,145
Then we go back to our classrooms and then
we're like, okay, that was so fantastic,

276
00:16:19,135 --> 00:16:21,026
but I still don't know how to do it.

277
00:16:21,786 --> 00:16:25,235
I want you to pick up on the
how you can do it subtleties.

278
00:16:26,105 --> 00:16:31,715
When you look at both of those images
of dots, you know that there is one big

279
00:16:31,805 --> 00:16:34,235
difference, and that is the organization.

280
00:16:35,655 --> 00:16:37,276
Number sense.

281
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,760
Is improved by understanding organization.

282
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:46,020
An organization in
mathematics is rectangle.

283
00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:49,740
Organization in mathematics is rectangle.

284
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:55,030
What we have to do to improve number
sense and improve counting is to

285
00:16:55,061 --> 00:16:58,210
redefine what's essential in mathematics.

286
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:06,431
One thing that is absolutely
essential is categorizing

287
00:17:06,491 --> 00:17:08,710
organizing and using rectangle.

288
00:17:10,781 --> 00:17:21,070
Our students already have this skill, but
we do not match our instruction to extract

289
00:17:21,161 --> 00:17:27,581
the skill that our students already have
because the perspective of our students

290
00:17:27,641 --> 00:17:29,951
is different than our perspective.

291
00:17:32,826 --> 00:17:36,041
What I want us to walk
away from today with.

292
00:17:36,791 --> 00:17:41,471
Is to get better at identifying
and extracting student perspective

293
00:17:42,371 --> 00:17:46,661
and then responsive teaching
to match their perspective.

294
00:17:47,591 --> 00:17:51,701
Because until that disconnect
goes away, we cannot improve.

295
00:17:51,701 --> 00:17:52,661
Number sense.

296
00:17:53,831 --> 00:17:56,261
This was my son when he was in preschool.

297
00:17:56,261 --> 00:18:02,771
My oldest son who is 20 now, when he
was in preschool, I am certain that

298
00:18:02,771 --> 00:18:08,531
his teacher said color, the P'S yellow
and the O'S black and the t's green.

299
00:18:08,531 --> 00:18:10,091
And he did exactly that.

300
00:18:10,910 --> 00:18:14,360
We have to be careful
When we are too explicit.

301
00:18:15,441 --> 00:18:22,311
When we are too explicit in our
instruction, we get defaults like this.

302
00:18:27,380 --> 00:18:29,781
In a moment, I'm gonna have
you look at nine symbols.

303
00:18:30,380 --> 00:18:32,511
Now, some of you that
have known me for a while.

304
00:18:33,380 --> 00:18:36,051
You have seen this before
and that is purposeful.

305
00:18:37,341 --> 00:18:40,941
To those of you that are new and have
not interacted with me, you've never seen

306
00:18:40,941 --> 00:18:43,491
this, and that is purposeful in a moment.

307
00:18:43,491 --> 00:18:45,681
On the next slide, I'm
gonna show you nine symbols.

308
00:18:45,681 --> 00:18:48,951
They're gonna be listed vertically
and you're not going to write

309
00:18:48,951 --> 00:18:50,511
them down until I take them away.

310
00:18:51,110 --> 00:18:54,735
I'm gonna show them to you for about
five seconds when I take them away.

311
00:18:54,976 --> 00:18:59,805
You are going to write down all of
the symbols in the same order and

312
00:18:59,805 --> 00:19:01,785
the same orientation you saw them.

313
00:19:02,775 --> 00:19:07,065
Now you are going to need something
to write with and let me do a

314
00:19:07,065 --> 00:19:08,775
little bit of logistics right now.

315
00:19:09,196 --> 00:19:11,626
You all gotta color
folder when you came in.

316
00:19:12,196 --> 00:19:16,245
There are blank pages in that color
folder at the end, so you're welcome

317
00:19:16,245 --> 00:19:18,106
to use any of those blank pages.

318
00:19:18,315 --> 00:19:21,676
This folder is full of resources
that we're gonna use today

319
00:19:21,676 --> 00:19:23,956
and it's yours to keep and.

320
00:19:24,525 --> 00:19:28,125
At the end of the three prongs,
there's blank paper, and you are

321
00:19:28,125 --> 00:19:32,595
absolutely u allowed to use that blank
paper to write down these symbols

322
00:19:32,595 --> 00:19:34,665
unless you brought your own paper.

323
00:19:34,875 --> 00:19:36,795
But when I show you the
symbols, you can't write yet.

324
00:19:36,825 --> 00:19:40,456
I'm gonna show about five seconds, take
'em away, and then you're gonna write.

325
00:19:42,495 --> 00:19:43,545
Is everybody ready now?

326
00:19:45,405 --> 00:19:45,885
Okay.

327
00:19:45,885 --> 00:19:47,835
I wasn't gonna give anybody a handicap.

328
00:19:48,105 --> 00:19:51,735
I wanted to make sure everybody had the
same accessibility, because now you're

329
00:19:51,735 --> 00:19:53,595
like, oh, I didn't even bring a pen.

330
00:19:53,906 --> 00:19:57,265
See, I gave you time to figure
all that out and find something

331
00:19:57,265 --> 00:19:59,366
to write on, and it's okay.

332
00:19:59,366 --> 00:20:00,656
And nobody had to freak out.

333
00:20:00,836 --> 00:20:01,886
All right, here we go.

334
00:20:01,886 --> 00:20:03,956
I'm gonna show this to
you, but don't write yet.

335
00:20:13,691 --> 00:20:14,321
Write 'em down.

336
00:20:46,345 --> 00:20:50,605
Okay, check your work, and in a moment
I'm gonna ask how many you have, correct?

337
00:20:51,235 --> 00:20:51,535
Correct.

338
00:20:51,535 --> 00:20:53,696
Location and correct orientation.

339
00:21:12,670 --> 00:21:12,960
Okay.

340
00:21:13,630 --> 00:21:16,091
Anybody have at least three, correct?

341
00:21:16,660 --> 00:21:17,801
We should have lots of hands here.

342
00:21:17,801 --> 00:21:18,670
At least three.

343
00:21:18,670 --> 00:21:19,541
At least three.

344
00:21:20,291 --> 00:21:21,521
At least four.

345
00:21:23,291 --> 00:21:24,731
At least five.

346
00:21:26,321 --> 00:21:29,140
Okay, so at least five is five or more.

347
00:21:29,170 --> 00:21:30,491
Okay, so at least five.

348
00:21:30,491 --> 00:21:31,630
Five or more?

349
00:21:32,021 --> 00:21:33,851
At least six.

350
00:21:36,041 --> 00:21:38,051
Oh, okay.

351
00:21:38,081 --> 00:21:38,351
Okay.

352
00:21:38,351 --> 00:21:42,311
So at least six Stand up
if you had at least six.

353
00:21:42,311 --> 00:21:43,091
Correct.

354
00:21:47,711 --> 00:21:48,880
There's no cheating,

355
00:21:53,111 --> 00:21:54,316
I'm gonna have Cheri talk.

356
00:21:54,376 --> 00:21:55,006
Come on up here.

357
00:21:55,006 --> 00:21:57,196
Come on out here, front and
center, because I'm gonna

358
00:21:57,196 --> 00:21:59,536
have Cheri, just I love you.

359
00:21:59,815 --> 00:22:04,045
I'm gonna have Cheri talk about
the raffle that we have today.

360
00:22:04,045 --> 00:22:08,875
The Raffles today are sponsored
by the Learning Disability Podcast

361
00:22:08,875 --> 00:22:12,175
Network, and I'm gonna have
Cheri talk about that sponsor.

362
00:22:12,175 --> 00:22:17,705
And the sponsor has, dozens and dozens of
free things that we're giving away today.

363
00:22:17,705 --> 00:22:18,545
Talk to us about that.

364
00:22:18,545 --> 00:22:21,545
Share me and then you'll take
Patreon and pick out price.

365
00:22:21,875 --> 00:22:22,415
Sure.

366
00:22:23,075 --> 00:22:28,025
So as of Monday, you didn't
even know about this.

367
00:22:28,145 --> 00:22:30,575
We had to change the name
of the podcast Network too.

368
00:22:30,755 --> 00:22:33,005
Disabilities Labs Podcast Network

369
00:22:33,555 --> 00:22:42,295
anyway, so the li disabilities Labs
is where tier one interventions and.

370
00:22:43,210 --> 00:22:46,720
The course is, it is
called Mastery Math Method.

371
00:22:47,290 --> 00:22:56,560
It is hosted on Disability Labs and we
take part of the training and we put it

372
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,710
out to Tier One Interventions podcast.

373
00:23:00,070 --> 00:23:05,470
So that was one of the
podcasts that's on the network.

374
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,280
There is another podcast on the
network called The Writing Glitch.

375
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,680
I was the host of that, and I did

376
00:23:14,110 --> 00:23:21,610
every, I did it up until the end of May
because I am shifting some of my focus.

377
00:23:21,610 --> 00:23:24,760
I feel like I have exhausted
everything with The Writing Glitch.

378
00:23:25,090 --> 00:23:28,960
So The Writing Glitch, can anybody
guess what I mean by a writing Glitch?

379
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:32,560
You knew it.

380
00:23:33,700 --> 00:23:34,330
You knew this.

381
00:23:35,260 --> 00:23:35,620
Okay.

382
00:23:35,770 --> 00:23:36,280
Yes.

383
00:23:37,285 --> 00:23:41,635
Dysgraphia is the disability in writing
Being an occupational therapist,

384
00:23:41,785 --> 00:23:43,465
what do we get their referrals for?

385
00:23:43,615 --> 00:23:45,205
Can somebody help my kid with writing?

386
00:23:45,596 --> 00:23:47,996
This kid has sloppy
writing is a dysgraphia,

387
00:23:49,906 --> 00:23:54,105
i, in 2019, published handwriting,
brain Body Disconnect, they are

388
00:23:54,105 --> 00:23:56,266
on sale outside for $20 a piece.

389
00:23:58,545 --> 00:24:04,875
And from that book I started the podcast.

390
00:24:04,875 --> 00:24:07,005
I have some courses and things like that.

391
00:24:07,935 --> 00:24:13,246
Along the way I met Ms. Jonily
and we decided to partner up and

392
00:24:13,246 --> 00:24:17,386
take some of the world of writing.

393
00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:22,321
And brought it to mathematics because
I bet you guys don't realize it,

394
00:24:22,710 --> 00:24:25,860
that whether you're writing a letter
or you're writing a number, you're

395
00:24:25,860 --> 00:24:27,600
doing the same thing in your brain.

396
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,720
And where does it begin?

397
00:24:31,380 --> 00:24:37,050
It begins by connecting the thought to the
product that's coming out on your hand.

398
00:24:38,700 --> 00:24:46,170
So we have partnered together, and yes,
Kirk, we are writing a book together.

399
00:24:47,970 --> 00:24:54,060
It is not published yet because we have
realized over the last year that some

400
00:24:54,060 --> 00:24:58,890
of the things that we have in that book,
as we were writing it, we just didn't

401
00:24:58,950 --> 00:25:04,170
like the way they were flowing, and we
wanted to be a little bit more articulate.

402
00:25:04,321 --> 00:25:08,341
So the reason the book is on
delay is because of those of

403
00:25:08,341 --> 00:25:09,660
you who are our beta readers.

404
00:25:09,660 --> 00:25:12,435
Can I have those of you who
are our beta readers stand up?

405
00:25:14,235 --> 00:25:15,480
I know Janet was one.

406
00:25:16,275 --> 00:25:18,136
Janet, are you the only one in the room?

407
00:25:18,406 --> 00:25:21,675
We had several disciplines.

408
00:25:21,675 --> 00:25:28,585
We had ot, speech teacher, special ed
teacher, school psychologist review

409
00:25:28,585 --> 00:25:36,355
the book and the feedback was, I didn't
quite understand this, so we are back.

410
00:25:36,655 --> 00:25:40,525
So our mission this summer
is to finish that book.

411
00:25:41,635 --> 00:25:48,145
So because I have gotten the point
of now where I have discontinued

412
00:25:48,145 --> 00:25:51,505
hosting The Writing Glitch, however,
it's still up there, you can listen

413
00:25:51,505 --> 00:25:55,675
to three years worth of information
about dysgraphia and dyslexia.

414
00:25:57,335 --> 00:26:04,625
Be sure to subscribe and click that bell
for notifications on YouTube and click

415
00:26:04,805 --> 00:26:09,815
subscribe on your favorite podcast app
so that you hear when the next episode

416
00:26:09,815 --> 00:26:11,405
of Tier One interventions comes out.

417
00:26:11,585 --> 00:26:17,055
And by the way, we are only submitting
every other week here over the summer.

418
00:26:17,325 --> 00:26:19,795
We look back to starting up every