Welcome to The Chemical Show, the podcast where Chemical means business.
I'm your host, Victoria Meyer, bringing you stories and insights
from leaders driving innovation and growth across the chemical industry.
Each week we explore key trends, real world challenges, and the
strategies that make an impact.
Let's get started.
Victoria Meyer: Welcome back to The Chemical Show Where Leaders Talk Business.
Today I am speaking with James Hogan, who is a partner at Simon
Kutcher and who is an expert on pricing and customer behavior.
James, I wanna let you know, is going to be one of our featured
panelists at the Chemical Summit, which is held on September 30th
and October 1st in Houston, Texas.
If you don't have your ticket yet.
You better hurry up and go get one.
Visit the chemical summit.com
for that.
But James is gonna be part of a panel, um, and bringing his wisdom and insight
from working with companies across the chemical industry and industrial companies
around pricing and customer behaviors.
And that's what we're talking about here today.
So James, welcome to the Chemical Show.
James Hogan: It is a pleasure to be here.
I'm looking forward to being on the panel at the, uh, at the
beginning of, uh, the month as well.
Victoria Meyer: Absolutely.
So tell us a little bit about yourself.
What's your origin story and how did you get interested in this space?
James Hogan: Absolutely, I would call it circuitous.
Uh, in, in both, in, in a couple of different ways.
So we moved back and forth across the country.
I grew up in Rhode Island.
I got an undergraduate degree at the University of Notre Dame, a PhD
in chemistry at the University of Southern California, and then worked
as a chemist, uh, as a bench chemist in, in southern California doing some
biotech, pharma and other related work.
After that, um, decided that I wanted to be in the business side of
chemicals, uh, maybe not necessarily at the bench my entire life.
Decided to go back and get an MBA at the University of
North Carolina in Chapel Hill.
Did my, internship there while at Bristol Myers Squibb, and then decided
to go into consulting to kind of broaden out even a little bit further,
since I joined Simon Kutcher in 2016.
Have focused really in building out our chemicals practice and supporting
our chemicals customers so circuitous in both back and forth across the
country now located in Atlanta, Georgia.
But also, you know, circuitous in that, uh, you know, a couple, couple
different routes in a trajectories of my career and, and now helping build
the chemicals practice in the US.
Victoria Meyer: I think that's cool.
And I think what's interesting with this, James, is there is a lot of business
leaders that have a technical background that, you know, spent some period
of time as a chemist, as an engineer doing something really technically
oriented, but also recognizing that they wanted to do more in the business.
And I think this aspect of having that science and engineering
background actually gives you really good grounding in what's ultimately
a really technical industry.
James Hogan: It is.
And I think that one of the bonuses, and I say this about my PhD program, is
it's, it's a degree in problem solving.
And that's the same thing that we do in consulting.
We are hired in projects to go and solve very difficult
problems for our, for our clients.
So having that technical background, we have
people from all walks of life, you know, within our firm and,
you know, across consultancies.
The desire to solve problems, the ability to structure and break down
a problem and figure out what's best for our clients and for their
customers is, is what we do every day.
Victoria Meyer: That's awesome.
I love it.
So tell us just a little bit about Simon Kutcher.
James Hogan: Sure.
We are a, a global consultancy, founded in bond Germany in 1985.
Um, at that point it was a pricing consultancy.
We have since grown, our second office globally was 1995 in Boston.
Um, as we broke into the US now we have over 40 offices in 30
countries around the world, we are focused entirely on top line.
We say we are on the sunny side of consulting.
We want to help co help companies grow and unlock better growth.
And you know, one of the words you might hear me talk about is sustainable growth
as well, something for the long term.
Our background historically was in pricing.
We very quickly moved into sales, marketing strategy, digital enablement.
Um, we are everything top line and we want to help all that.
Uh, we help our customers with all that.
Victoria Meyer: I love that.
And in fact, his, um, especially in the current market environment, people
probably run away when they see, uh, consultants sometimes thinking it's
gonna be slash and burn, but staying on the sunny side is a good thing.
James Hogan: Absolutely.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah.
So let's talk about the current landscape, right?
So 2025, heading into 2026, yet another year we're maybe we're not
super happy with where the chemical industry is, but what do you and your
clients see as some of the biggest challenges facing chemicals today?
James Hogan: Ever changing, uh, the current problem today or the
current challenge today wasn't the challenge yesterday and it might
not be the challenge tomorrow.
Um, so we are trying to stay on our toes in everything that
we do and stay out in front.
I think that, you know, a couple of things that jump to mind for me are.
The, the regional differences in these industries?
Just understanding that the US and the America is very different from Europe,
very different from Asia Pacific.
Things like even like distribution channels, uh, completely different in
the way they operate in different areas.
So figuring all of this out over the course of the past five years
has been an ever-changing dynamic.
Supply chain issues seem to have gotten a bit better since 20 22, 20 23.
But capacity issues are still kind of out outta whack here, and there's been
a bit of an uneven demand recovery over the course of the past several years.
Sustainability is a big challenge.
Um, we, we see that in different ways in different regions.
In Europe, for example, there are, it, it is.
Much more regulated and people are willing to pay a premium for sustainable
solutions in the US People are interested in sustainable solutions.
Uh, pricing still matters.
Um, and especially when you're talking about that scale.
So in, you know, and then in, you know, other parts of the world,
sustainability is still catching up as an opportunity and a, a value driver.
So one of the biggest differences that we always think about, and, you
know, we, we go to conferences like this and we talk about chemicals
in this macro environment, it.
Really, if you wanna boil it down just a little bit, commodities
versus specialty chemicals.
There's a world of difference between the two.
How we, how we think about the, you know, the pricing and the customer service
of, you know, bulk acetone being shipped versus, you know, new multi-component
composites for EV batteries.
Um, you have very different approaches to kind of commercial service and pricing
and everything that goes along with that.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah.
that's, I think that's a great point.
In fact, I recently did a, a podcast a couple weeks ago about, um, of reflections
on second quarter earnings and what companies are saying and how this.
Plays out for the industry right now, and as we head out to the end
of the year and into next year.
And, and I agree with you, there's a stark difference between specialty
and commodities, and I think there's this aspect of resiliency that,
specialties are able to harness in ways that commodities are not.
And it's, you know, the very nature of commodity versus specialty in many ways.
James Hogan: Yeah.
One of the things that we will, we, we, regardless of industry, whether
it's the chemical, the industry, or selling widgets from manufacturing
company, people worry about commodities.
We can't do anything with pricing.
I will sit here and say, I don't think I've found a complete commodity yet.
There is always opportunity and there's things like better lead times, better
technical support, um, you know, slightly better quality or reliability,
your technical support in the field, uh, if I didn't mention that already.
So there's a lot of opportunity even on the commodity side.
But it really comes down to going beyond price.
Thinking about how else can you build value for your customers?
Um, and then, you know, naturally they'll be willing to pay for that.
If you make somebody's life easier, there's going, there's a, there's
something that they will pay for that.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah, I mean, so I think that's a great segue and we talked
about, you know, pricing is a lot of times a key lever for profitability.
You'd like to stay on the top line.
James Hogan: Mm-hmm.
Victoria Meyer: But it's not the only one.
So can you walk us through what some of those other levers are
and maybe how they've, um, are cha are changing, I guess, currently
versus where they were in the past?
James Hogan: Yes.
So I will say that the way that we look at things, we are
a, we, our legacy is pricing.
We do think it's the most valuable lever, and one of the things that we go
through is if we think about pricing.
Victoria Meyer: I.
James Hogan: Variable cost, fixed cost or volume.
If you were to have a 5% optimization in each of those areas, the one
that's gonna give you the biggest bang for the buck is pricing.
'cause it falls straight to the bottom line.
And you know, not getting too technical of things like elasticities
and stuff like that, um, there's a biggest opportunity in pricing.
That being said, price is how do you store value?
How do you count value?
So when you think about what.
How can you work with your customers?
How could you get more price?
It's about creating more value for them.
And one of the things we do with all of our client, almost all
of our clients, is we do both an internal and an external validation
of what we'll call value drivers.
And so it's what do they care about when they're making a purchase?
And the price is obviously one thing.
It is almost never the number one thing when he gets down to it.
The quality of the product, the reliability of the product, technical
support, lead times during COVID went to number one for most people.
Didn't matter what the price was, just gimme the lead time, or
sorry, quickly following COVID.
and then the one that is really often overlooked is the
relationship with the sales team.
Um, it's, you know, having that relationship and that trust is the
most important thing you can have when you're in a business that.
It is often selling, you know, large deal contracts and you know, you've gotta
make sure that somebody's there for you.
So all of these things really go together.
And you know, one of the interesting things is if you look internally
and then you talk to your, like our client's customers, there's
not always complete alignment.
And it's really enlightening sometimes when a sales person is gonna say,
price is the only thing that matters.
And the customer says, actually, that's fourth or fifth on my list.
I need to know that you can get me the material when you have
it, and you're gonna be there to support me when it gets there.
Victoria Meyer: I agree.
And, and I think it's, uh, it, it sometimes seems like, feels like an easy
lever to pull, but as you say, especially in the current environment, Business
is always competitive, so being able to harness other levers is critical.
And I just think back to my, my time in, in corporate, whether it
be at Shell or Clat, and there.
were times we said, Of course, you know, everybody's delivering on spec and of
course our quality is all the same.
And then you, you dive in a little bit deeper and you find out, no,
that's not necessarily the case.
Or, you know, the spec is big enough to drive a truck through we stay
James Hogan: Yes.
Victoria Meyer: tight in a certain area, which certain customers prefer not.
So I think, more depth and not just accepting the fast answer and the
assumptions becomes pretty critical.
James Hogan: It is funny when you talk about specs there.
We've done some work recently with some process chemical companies, and to your
point exactly the the spec is one thing.
Delivering the bare minimum is one thing, providing extra value.
Again, going above and beyond, um, people are willing to.
Companies are willing to pay more for that.
And you know what this really comes down to is everybody
wants to avoid a price war.
In an industry like this where margins are razor thin, you can't afford to go down.
So let's all focus on adding more value.
You add more value, you find a way to add more value.
Customers will find a, a reason and willingness to pay a little bit more.
And you know, our side is, let's raise the bar rather than lower the bar.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah, so, so sometimes value can feel
like a profit killer, right?
So, um, you know, I think about this and the easy thing to say is.
Well, sure I could do more for my customer, but that's costly.
do you combat that point of view?
James Hogan: Yeah, absolutely.
And we actually, we run a similar exercise where we understand
or we want to understand.
What do the customers care about?
And then how do you perform relative to your peers in each of those categories?
So you want to stay, we call it the consistency corridor, where the value
you're providing matches the importance.
Of your customers and you know, if you find yourself providing more value or
a lot of value and investing in areas where your customers don't care about,
let's pull some out of that potentially and and reallocate to something where
you find out your customers care a ton.
And maybe you're not doing well.
Absolutely.
Or you're not doing as well as your peers and reallocate some investment there.
So whether that's actual financial investment, whether that is resources
internally, whether it's marketing, pr, something like that to, to just make sure
that the value you're providing to the clients matches what they care about.
That's, that's number one.
Because people want to come down to am I getting value for the price I'm paying?
Victoria Meyer: All right, James.
So you and I both know that, each of us, you know, if, if we are sitting
inside of a, a chemical company, we have certain things that we think, of
course the customer hugely values this, and then we find out that they don't.
And this whole idea of backing away.
Uh, and I'm sure you guys get into these conversations of, how do you
get people to change inside of a company, let's say, to change their
behaviors or the, the own values that they apply to a certain attribute,
a certain service level, et cetera.
does that play out?
James Hogan: There's change management is not easy anywhere.
Um, and that works inside of our clients works when you're trying to
talk to other customers and you know, oftentimes it is really outlining.
Quantifying where you can, again, we come back to a bunch of technical people in
the chemicals world where you can assign numbers to something that's gonna help.
So when you can say, when you can show somebody, if you do this, you will
realize these types of process gains or this type of financial impact, or
your NPS score is gonna go up a little bit with your customers if you do this.
All these things that you can try to ascribe a number to.
It is really beneficial in this industry.
'cause that's how people,
Victoria Meyer: Yeah.
James Hogan: Overall, really think about things.
Victoria Meyer: So are there any surprises in terms, I mean, it sounds
like you guys have done a lot of conversations, a lot of surveys, a lot.
Are there any surprises that come up occasionally or regularly in terms
of what customers do or don't value?
James Hogan: I think going.
Going back to the fact that price is normally third, fourth, or fifth,
again, the salespeople are almost always gonna say it's number one.
It really comes down to the quality of the product,
Victoria Meyer: Yeah.
James Hogan: technical support you're gonna give and provide,
um, is a big one nowadays.
And then, you know, things like lead time have generally been consistent.
It spiked right after COVID.
It's come down a little bit in since then.
And then, you know, again, back to the.
Uh, the relationship with the sales is, is, is really critical.
And the last couple things I'll throw in there is if you are selling across a
broad product portfolio, understanding whether your customers care that
you have everything or that you have five different versions of one thing.
So do you want to go broad?
Do you want to go deep?
You know, where, what is your value proposition for your customer?
And can you clearly define that when you're going through that
Sales process is really critical.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah, that's a good point.
So.
How has it changed over time?
So, you know, I think, when I think about pricing strategies and pricing
models, at one point in time, and maybe still in some parts of the industry,
things were heavily formula-based.
Or, you know, sometimes they're value-based or you're
negotiating every order.
Are There any big shifts that you've seen in terms of just the
pricing strategies and approaches?
James Hogan: There has been a major shift over the course of, I
dunno, the past 10, 20, 30 years.
The goal, the unicorn is value-based pricing for everything.
What is the value that a customer ascribes to this product?
What is kinda the maximum they're willing to pay?
Um, that makes sense and that doesn't apply everywhere.
Um, I go back to kind of selling a.
Bulk acetone and it's going to be a, you know, a, a x amount, dollars per ton,
um, or, you know, whatever it may be.
And it's very cost plus.
And you add on freight, you add on a couple other things, and, and you
get that it's formulaic over time.
We switched a little bit to toward index pricing.
It was a little bit more transparent, as an index went up or down.
Everybody understood that it moved that way.
That got complex over time, multi-component formulas, um,
you know, things become opaque.
Um, and if you don't have a good relationship, again, back to that,
it's an easy way to, you know, maybe not trust the other side.
Um, if things become complex, you know, as we move now toward
value-based pricing, understanding differentiation of your customer
set, you know, is somebody willing to pay more or less because they're in.
The Northeast versus the southwest.
Different end markets, um, you know, OEMs and cars for, you know, electric vehicles.
You know, have a different value that they can pass through to their customer for
certain inputs and, um, products versus somebody else who may be buying the same
inputs to, you know, to lithium batteries.
There's a lot of different things that have moved, but definitely moving toward
value-based is important for pricing.
It also creates a shift in sales.
The, the old days of there's an index and or it's cost plus you
can be an order taker and you know, somebody calls you and says, I need.
300 tons of this, and you can say the price is, you know, x.
Nowadays, especially in the chemi, especially chemicals world, when you're
trying to, you know, innovate regularly and add more value for your customers,
you've gotta be able to sell that value.
You need somebody that knows the product well.
You need somebody that can go and defend that value and explain why the ROI
for that purchase is higher for them.
So it's creating a, a larger commercial shift.
It's not just pricing, it's hitting a bunch of different functional areas.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah, I mean, it sounds like it's gotten more sophisticated.
Would you, how does the role of distributors play into this, right?
Because that also adds a different dynamic versus when you've got a
producer, consumer formulator relationship versus, um, bringing a distributor.
And now of course, some of the, some distributors are, uh, sole sourced, right?
So they're dedicated to a particular company and product line and,
and how they structure it, and others are making decisions.
Somehow that's always been a little bit of a mystery, to be honest,
um, across other various producers.
How does that play into this?
James Hogan: Yeah, I, you, you kind of hit it, right?
There's a couple of different things at play.
One, the exclusivity factor can help or hinder distributor,
um, in going to market.
But you, the real key in kind of their position in the value stream is the
ability to reach a bigger audience than a manufacturer could themselves and.
A different manufacturer.
You know, the, the, the scale that they have or the sophistication they
have, you know, they may wanna work with different types of distributors.
Some are, you know, buy my product, add a margin, and sell
it wherever you want Others.
We really like to focus on is there an opportunity for co-op marketing?
Let, let's kind of blend the value stream a little bit.
Have the manufacturer working hand in hand with the distributor
to explain the value prop.
You know, especially if you're a distributor of specialty chemicals,
Distributors don't always have technical knowledge to nearly to
the degree that the manufacturer or the the innovator actually does.
So do you need a, a, you know, technical support and, you know, support up and
down that value chain, um, in order to deliver that product to the customer?
So identifying what you want a distributor to, to do, is the key here.
I think the third, the third part that we've seen recently is.
You're actually the manufacturer selling to the end customer, and you
are only giving the distributor a margin just to facilitate the logistics.
So again, a whole bunch of different ways you can work with distributors, but
they're an absolutely critical aspect of this industry because you've gotta
get product from plant to customer and uh, nobody knows it better.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah.
Great.
Um, what about digital?
Like, you know, we are living in a digital world, I gotta be honest.
Um, I was sleepless, sleepless this morning at 3:00 AM on Amazon
making a couple of purchases.
Um, not so easy to do in the chemical industry.
And yet we know that digital has a role to play.
What role are you seeing digital playing?
When we think about pricing and value?
James Hogan: Yeah, that the term digital is so ubiquitous
and all encompassing nowadays.
It's very difficult to narrow down what do we mean?
And I think that it's especially tricky in the chemicals industry where.
You know, it tends to lag in technology and innovation in that regard.
I think we are catching up in a number of ways and there are some ways that
are clear we can't fall behind further.
Um, or else you're always playing catch up.
And the easy example is, is ai.
How is that going to help this industry in the future?
I think there's, there's a couple.
I won't say easy, but maybe easy to identify opportunities like, uh,
demand forecasting, optimize pricing.
Those are a couple areas where AI will certainly be able to help a little bit.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah.
James Hogan: the, the other areas where I see digital
really helping is dashboarding.
You've seen, if you've gone into a plant, you've seen KPI dashboards
or monitors with all of the supply chain throughput, throughputs and how
everything's being, you know, created.
That's becoming a lot more useful on the front end and the commercial side as well.
Um, understanding, using data-driven insights to understand why is a customer.
Why haven't they bought in three months when they, you know, were
buying over a long period of time.
Why are they only buying a small portion of the portfolio when
you know they could buy it?
So trying to, you know, these types of data-driven insights is gonna
be, are, is gonna be very helpful.
And then just the, the using smarter KPIs to run your business and make decisions
and not just having a bunch of charts and graphs for the sake of having, because
you have a, you have the ability to do so.
And
Victoria Meyer: Yeah.
James Hogan: the last, the last thing I'll mention here is, around
blockchain technology, which has kind of gone, had peaks and valleys over
the past several years on, uh, the usefulness and the use cases of it.
But I think, you know, something the pharma industry has done for.
Years and years now is track, uh, is track and trace and sustainability and
understanding that now using blockchain technology to kind of have that public
ledger should hopefully open up some opportunities, not just in pharma but in
other chemicals to make sure the product I'm ordering is the product I'm getting.
There's no black markets.
Um, we can understand all of this and, and, and track and trace accordingly.
So a lot of different unique ways.
I think we're still a bit in the infancy on many of these,
um, but a big opportunity for the industry moving forward.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah, and I think that your comment about blockchain
is interesting 'cause you're right, a few years ago that was the talk,
everybody was talking about blockchain.
By the way, I still do not understand blockchain.
I'm hoping somebody somewhere can explain it to me in a way that I
understand 'cause it's not there yet.
But It certainly seems like it's moved to the background rather than to the
forefront of what folks are doing.
James Hogan: It is been a wild couple, uh, wild couple years in the industry and in.
Geopolitics and everything where you've, we've, we've always gotta
prioritize, uh, what we're thinking about today and, and tomorrow.
And I do think you are exactly correct in that.
It has not been, I'll say, marketed or explained well for everybody,
there's a network effect to this.
And I think eventually we will get there, but it's not easy yet.
And, um, that's, that's a key.
Uh, not just for chemicals for blockchain overall.
Um, I think it's gonna be helpful.
Um, I think we've still got some, some time before it takes,
uh, takes hold mainstream.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah.
All right, James, you mentioned the T word being tariffs and.
They are what they are.
And I know you, you know, so we're not gonna get into
the, what it is and why it is
James Hogan: Yep.
Victoria Meyer: it is, but more importantly, how do tariffs
play into this whole aspect of pricing and value, particularly
in a market where if You look.
Um, generally speaking at the chemical industry, how about this will take
commodities seem to be quite long and overbuilt, specialty is mixed.
the conversations and considerations you and your
clients are having around tariffs?
James Hogan: You are right.
It is very complicated.
The issue with tariffs right now is the uncertainty.
And if we knew that tariffs were going to stay, then it would be,
we'd have one approach to it.
When we don't know if they're gonna stay or they may be pulled back, it makes it
a little more complex and understanding.
How do you manage that as a firm?
How do you as.
As a manufacturer, how do you manage that as a customer?
There is a bit of a timing game here, and there's a couple
different ways you can do it.
One is putting a surcharge onto your invoice and saying, this is a tariff
surcharge, so it's transparent.
If tariffs move, you take it off.
Another, and sometimes for simplicity, the customer would prefer just put
it in the price of the product.
Um, if they, if they come off, then we can lower and move the price around.
But there's a lot of integrated systems here where, and I, I
say systems intentionally in IT and infrastructure that.
When you have, you know, EDI talking to, you know, other ERPs from customer to
uh, manufacturer, it's, it's complicated.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah.
James Hogan: so trying to find a way to get those, you know, get
that to work together is important.
I understand the intent of.
Tariffs and we want to optimize for, some of the, the economics and
different reasons around the world.
It's a long-term game, like you mentioned when you're trying, when you're talking
about building production plants to satisfy, you know, capacity and demand,
and now we have tariffs on top of it.
These are not things that can get decided or built in, you know?
A year.
These are five, 10 year CapEx builds.
And we've started talking to some of our customers about scenario planning.
And I think that's a key that is, that has become more important is you might
not execute all of these things, but you need to have plans in place if something
happens that you know is gonna last.
So scenario planning has been a big piece of some of our work with our
clients recently and just, if this, then that, you know, if something
happens, let's be prepared to react.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah, so critical.
So critical.
I love scenario planning.
I don't think we, um, utilize it as effectively and as often as we should.
Um, some of my history, uh.
It shows that, you know, sometimes scenarios are identified and then they
become forgotten, and then when they show up, it's like, remember there was a
James Hogan: Yep.
Victoria Meyer: and this is it.
Oh, but
James Hogan: Deep down people love to play devil's.
Uh,
Victoria Meyer: Like.
James Hogan: deep down people love to play devil's advocate in these meetings.
If you're doing war gaming or you know, any sort of game theory and,
uh, you know, you get a lot of, you know, smart people in this industry
in a room and say what could happen if, um, it, it can be a fun exercise.
The busy work and the important work is how do we quantify that and how do we
make the right decisions based on data, while making assumptions that, you know,
could have very different outcomes.
But, this is the world we live in now and we've gotta make sure
that we, you know, we are prepared to adapt, uh, or get left behind.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah, absolutely.
Awesome.
This has been great.
So James, final question for you.
You know, if you were giving advice to a young James Hogan or to another, you
know, young professional in the chemical industry that's really looking to build
their career, um, whether It be in pricing and consulting or just even to
get to a senior level in the chemical industry, what advice would you give them?
James Hogan: It is, it's always to do what you're interested in.
I did that.
It took me a couple of different directions and I
kept finding more interest.
I joined consulting because it, I thought it was a great job to figure
out what I wanted to be when I grew up.
So I'm still figuring out what I wanna be when I grow up.
I work, you know, eight to
Victoria Meyer: so you know.
James Hogan: indeed, uh, eight to 12 weeks at a time.
It's always something different.
It's always something exciting.
I work around the world.
I work with great people, and I have fun doing it.
So.
There are other people that say, I want to go into this company.
I want to exact change in this company.
I want to be here for, you know, the long term for 10, 15, 20 years.
This chemical, the chemicals industry has lifers in some of these large companies.
And, and it's great.
And that history is what is, what drives, um, you know, is what drives success here.
And I think at the end of the day, you know, when.
People ask me, you know, what makes a successful consultant?
I think it's the same thing that makes a successful anything is communication.
Be honest with yourself.
Talk to your bosses, your colleagues, you know, have an open and transparent
conversation about what interests you, what you can do to support
the, the company, the customer.
Um, and you'll find out that you, you end up having fun doing it.
And, it's a reason we get to have these types of conversations today.
Victoria Meyer: Yeah.
Awesome.
James.
Thank you.
This has been a really great conversation.
I really appreciate you joining me here on The Chemical Show and at the Chemical
Summit in just a couple of weeks.
James Hogan: I am looking forward to joining you and, uh, look forward to,
uh, seeing some of our viewers there.
Victoria Meyer: Absolutely, and thank you everyone for joining us today.
Keep listening, keep following, keep sharing, and we will
talk with you again soon.