1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,759 Do you ever struggle to start conversations that feel natural online 2 00:00:05,379 --> 00:00:10,919 or perhaps the idea of posting on social media and having to talk to people and 3 00:00:10,919 --> 00:00:13,700 engage with people feels overwhelming? 4 00:00:14,230 --> 00:00:18,859 If so, then you are in luck because today's guest is one of the best 5 00:00:18,859 --> 00:00:23,269 people I know when it comes to having authentic and purposeful conversations 6 00:00:23,290 --> 00:00:24,980 with strangers on the internet. 7 00:00:25,439 --> 00:00:29,809 She is an expert at turning those strangers into friends and clients. 8 00:00:30,139 --> 00:00:35,130 So today's guest, please join me in welcoming my friend, Deb Coleman. 9 00:00:36,006 --> 00:00:40,446 Hello friend, I'm Kendra and you've tuned into the Invisible to Invincible 10 00:00:40,456 --> 00:00:45,726 podcast, where passionately driven business owners share their journeys 11 00:00:45,736 --> 00:00:48,426 from hidden gems to industry leaders. 12 00:00:48,896 --> 00:00:54,096 Together, we'll uncover the secrets, mental shifts, and visibility and 13 00:00:54,106 --> 00:00:59,926 marketing strategies that turn these hidden gems into undeniable forces. 14 00:01:00,286 --> 00:01:03,016 So hit that subscribe button and let's dive in. 15 00:01:08,047 --> 00:01:08,857 Welcome, Deb. 16 00:01:08,867 --> 00:01:09,967 Thanks for being here today. 17 00:01:10,632 --> 00:01:11,992 Thanks for having me, Kendra. 18 00:01:11,992 --> 00:01:13,762 I can't wait to get talking with you. 19 00:01:14,762 --> 00:01:15,302 Absolutely. 20 00:01:15,322 --> 00:01:15,582 Okay. 21 00:01:15,582 --> 00:01:19,592 For those of you who are tuning in, I have known Deb for 22 00:01:19,592 --> 00:01:21,012 several years, we're friends. 23 00:01:21,022 --> 00:01:24,752 So that's a little behind the scenes of how it's going to play out 24 00:01:24,762 --> 00:01:26,022 when you're listening to us talk. 25 00:01:26,572 --> 00:01:31,472 I'm excited to share and introduce Deb with all of you because she is fantastic. 26 00:01:31,862 --> 00:01:37,817 So Deb, You are a content strategist and writer, content 27 00:01:37,817 --> 00:01:39,197 conversion strategist and writer. 28 00:01:39,217 --> 00:01:40,837 Let me make sure I get all the right words in there. 29 00:01:41,257 --> 00:01:47,157 Can you talk a little bit about how you got there and how you became Deb Comen, 30 00:01:47,157 --> 00:01:52,897 content strategist and writer and top 100 content marketers to follow right 31 00:01:52,897 --> 00:01:58,817 now and NOW Marketing Groups lists and making all these amazing lists of things 32 00:01:58,817 --> 00:01:59,957 that you're doing with your content. 33 00:02:00,657 --> 00:02:01,227 Thank you so much. 34 00:02:01,337 --> 00:02:02,087 Tell us everything. 35 00:02:02,587 --> 00:02:04,127 I will, I'll try. 36 00:02:04,537 --> 00:02:07,897 as with most of us, it's never really a straight line. 37 00:02:08,277 --> 00:02:12,137 So my early days of working were in the field of mental health and, you 38 00:02:12,137 --> 00:02:16,457 know, like many of us, those things that we did before usually find a way 39 00:02:16,457 --> 00:02:21,007 to be of value in our current version of how we're showing up in the world. 40 00:02:21,027 --> 00:02:26,457 After that, I was home with my kids and started editing and Doing 41 00:02:26,457 --> 00:02:30,417 some grants writing because I had done that in my previous life, too. 42 00:02:31,037 --> 00:02:36,497 And what, the pivot point for me was when I was working for a freelancer 43 00:02:36,497 --> 00:02:38,157 who decided to go back to corporate. 44 00:02:38,677 --> 00:02:43,767 I said, wait a minute, like I was really enjoying this kind of part time work. 45 00:02:43,817 --> 00:02:47,507 So I made a decision, like I have to figure out how to do this for myself. 46 00:02:47,547 --> 00:02:48,997 That's like exactly what I did. 47 00:02:48,997 --> 00:02:49,477 I started. 48 00:02:50,147 --> 00:02:55,327 you know, what we now talk about is like cold outreach and just finding people 49 00:02:55,327 --> 00:02:57,047 who said, yeah, this would be great. 50 00:02:57,107 --> 00:02:59,327 I need some help with my content. 51 00:02:59,337 --> 00:03:03,007 Back then it would be website copy or that sort of thing. 52 00:03:03,037 --> 00:03:07,437 It just evolved to where I always knew from the beginning, 53 00:03:07,437 --> 00:03:09,687 I was interested in why are you. 54 00:03:10,322 --> 00:03:11,602 Why is this your message? 55 00:03:11,602 --> 00:03:13,172 What are you trying to accomplish with it? 56 00:03:13,442 --> 00:03:16,482 Which as we all know now is the strategy behind it. 57 00:03:16,792 --> 00:03:21,212 And that's what really was my love and what led me to become more of a 58 00:03:21,212 --> 00:03:26,112 content conversion strategist who also did the copywriting, but really wanted 59 00:03:26,112 --> 00:03:29,342 to help people get in touch with that. 60 00:03:29,352 --> 00:03:32,922 Why and be sure that that's threaded through all their 61 00:03:32,922 --> 00:03:35,002 content, which is what I do today. 62 00:03:36,002 --> 00:03:41,142 One of the things that I absolutely admire about. 63 00:03:41,852 --> 00:03:46,072 our friend Deb, is her ability to connect. 64 00:03:46,742 --> 00:03:51,912 When I go on social media, Deb is there connecting with people, encouraging 65 00:03:51,912 --> 00:03:58,872 people, and really building that personal relationship that's really important. 66 00:03:59,492 --> 00:04:00,752 What inspired you? 67 00:04:00,762 --> 00:04:02,162 Was that strategic? 68 00:04:02,492 --> 00:04:04,062 Is that just you? 69 00:04:04,842 --> 00:04:05,512 Tell me more. 70 00:04:05,842 --> 00:04:07,102 Yeah, I love this. 71 00:04:07,152 --> 00:04:12,412 And I think it is just me or I say just me, but, it's really an important piece 72 00:04:12,412 --> 00:04:14,982 of why people choose to work with me. 73 00:04:15,522 --> 00:04:20,992 And if they want to learn how to do that too, and many of us do have it 74 00:04:21,012 --> 00:04:26,732 in us and use it, but aren't always connecting it with, Oh, if I make this. 75 00:04:27,212 --> 00:04:28,072 action. 76 00:04:28,362 --> 00:04:32,412 It's really helping people to get to know me and trust me and then make 77 00:04:32,412 --> 00:04:35,752 a decision about if they want to work with me, if it's the timing is 78 00:04:35,752 --> 00:04:38,172 right and I solve their challenge. 79 00:04:38,222 --> 00:04:42,472 So like most of what I've done in my work, I've just kind of done it and 80 00:04:42,482 --> 00:04:46,492 then step back and said, wait, what is it that what am I actually doing? 81 00:04:46,752 --> 00:04:50,312 Like, what are, are there steps to this that, and there are, they 82 00:04:50,312 --> 00:04:53,332 just happen almost instantaneously. 83 00:04:53,762 --> 00:04:58,242 But when you break it down, then you're able to teach it to someone else and. 84 00:04:58,697 --> 00:05:02,147 talk about a little more eloquently than, Oh, you just do it. 85 00:05:02,157 --> 00:05:04,157 Well, that's not, you know what I mean? 86 00:05:04,157 --> 00:05:05,457 Like, what's wrong with you? 87 00:05:05,467 --> 00:05:06,187 Just do it. 88 00:05:06,187 --> 00:05:08,977 Just, just engage or just, just show up. 89 00:05:08,987 --> 00:05:10,287 Like we hear this a lot, right? 90 00:05:10,287 --> 00:05:11,237 Show up as you. 91 00:05:11,667 --> 00:05:11,927 Okay. 92 00:05:11,927 --> 00:05:13,767 Well, what does that mean? 93 00:05:14,047 --> 00:05:18,677 The people who find that a challenge don't even know what that means. 94 00:05:18,757 --> 00:05:22,667 They think they are, or they think that's not the right fit for them. 95 00:05:22,667 --> 00:05:29,237 So I think it's our job to to slow ourselves down and and when something's 96 00:05:29,237 --> 00:05:32,977 working for us, break it down to where we can help other people to 97 00:05:32,977 --> 00:05:35,387 do the same if they align with that. 98 00:05:36,387 --> 00:05:40,557 I want to go back to a few things you just said, and one is I have talked 99 00:05:40,567 --> 00:05:46,637 to so many people when you talk about just show up as you like, you're right. 100 00:05:46,897 --> 00:05:47,997 Who is me? 101 00:05:48,477 --> 00:05:49,497 I don't feel comfortable. 102 00:05:49,507 --> 00:05:50,957 These are the things I've heard lately. 103 00:05:51,317 --> 00:05:52,617 I don't feel comfortable. 104 00:05:52,857 --> 00:05:54,747 I don't want people to know that much about me. 105 00:05:55,097 --> 00:05:57,697 I hate self promotion. 106 00:05:58,697 --> 00:06:01,137 And why is anyone going to care? 107 00:06:01,247 --> 00:06:01,937 Who am I? 108 00:06:02,937 --> 00:06:08,942 And I think that especially as we get older, It's that inverse. 109 00:06:09,422 --> 00:06:10,402 relationship, right? 110 00:06:10,412 --> 00:06:15,262 Like, I now know that how much I don't know, whereas when I was 27, I would 111 00:06:15,262 --> 00:06:16,522 have told you exactly how it was. 112 00:06:16,602 --> 00:06:20,592 This is how it should be, this is what it's gonna be, and get out of my way, 113 00:06:20,622 --> 00:06:21,382 because I'm gonna make this happen. 114 00:06:22,382 --> 00:06:26,382 And now, That's, it's probably still there, let's be clear, 115 00:06:27,382 --> 00:06:31,322 but it's going to be filtered through a lot of things and now I know all 116 00:06:31,322 --> 00:06:37,592 of the stuff that I don't know and I see that creating doubt and a lot of 117 00:06:37,722 --> 00:06:39,382 clients and a lot of people online. 118 00:06:40,382 --> 00:06:40,792 Yeah. 119 00:06:41,262 --> 00:06:44,822 I love this so much because especially what you just said there 120 00:06:44,822 --> 00:06:49,672 about what we don't know, like this is one of those examples. 121 00:06:49,682 --> 00:06:53,432 People often feel like, well, I have to know all the answers. 122 00:06:53,442 --> 00:06:54,622 And I felt this too. 123 00:06:54,632 --> 00:06:59,442 If I'm going to support people with this, I need to know A to Z about this topic. 124 00:06:59,462 --> 00:07:01,182 And that's not really true. 125 00:07:01,632 --> 00:07:05,687 And when we say things like, Oh, I don't know. 126 00:07:06,047 --> 00:07:06,997 Or you know what? 127 00:07:07,007 --> 00:07:10,287 That part's not really my expertise. 128 00:07:11,287 --> 00:07:14,747 We think that's going to repel people from wanting to work 129 00:07:14,747 --> 00:07:16,357 with us, but they say, Oh, okay. 130 00:07:16,807 --> 00:07:20,667 And then they can, the thing we are really good at that we can help them 131 00:07:20,667 --> 00:07:24,567 with, they, they learn to trust us because we're open and honest with that. 132 00:07:24,627 --> 00:07:30,567 So some of those things that I think, are real blocks for many of us, like saying, 133 00:07:30,677 --> 00:07:36,627 not being comfortable with, I don't know, or I'm not sure, or I'm learning 134 00:07:36,627 --> 00:07:39,317 this myself, are really the things that. 135 00:07:39,947 --> 00:07:44,387 help people trust us for, because there are a lot of people out there doing the 136 00:07:44,387 --> 00:07:47,137 opposite, and like our younger selves. 137 00:07:47,197 --> 00:07:47,917 Oh, sure. 138 00:07:47,927 --> 00:07:48,697 Let me do that. 139 00:07:48,697 --> 00:07:51,797 And then we're like, wow, am I going to pull this thing off? 140 00:07:51,827 --> 00:07:54,927 But, but truth is we always knew when we could help people 141 00:07:54,927 --> 00:07:56,217 that we would figure it out. 142 00:07:56,217 --> 00:07:57,357 So that was okay. 143 00:07:57,617 --> 00:07:59,977 But there are a lot of people out there not. 144 00:08:00,947 --> 00:08:02,417 showing up that way. 145 00:08:02,677 --> 00:08:08,477 Often the people who talk a lot about integrity and authenticity, maybe not 146 00:08:08,477 --> 00:08:13,807 always practicing it, that they're saying it and, but this is where we get down 147 00:08:13,807 --> 00:08:21,652 to that piece of how do we support people to know to show up, to be who they are. 148 00:08:22,152 --> 00:08:23,912 Like you said, what does that mean? 149 00:08:24,302 --> 00:08:26,732 To me, it means what are our values? 150 00:08:26,762 --> 00:08:31,032 And I know you work with people on this, like you first have to identify 151 00:08:31,132 --> 00:08:33,762 what they are before you can start. 152 00:08:34,037 --> 00:08:38,887 Then integrating them into your messaging and how you do video 153 00:08:38,887 --> 00:08:40,707 and how you write your emails. 154 00:08:40,727 --> 00:08:43,607 You have to first know what they are. 155 00:08:44,107 --> 00:08:48,597 And then also what you said, Kendra, about the level of vulnerability when 156 00:08:48,597 --> 00:08:50,407 people say, well, I'm not doing that. 157 00:08:50,407 --> 00:08:54,087 I'm not telling my deepest, darkest secrets. 158 00:08:54,497 --> 00:08:56,707 That's not what we're being asked to do. 159 00:08:56,827 --> 00:08:57,217 Right. 160 00:08:58,147 --> 00:08:58,497 Right. 161 00:08:59,087 --> 00:09:01,137 I mean, it's like, No, I 162 00:09:02,137 --> 00:09:03,127 don't want them. 163 00:09:03,987 --> 00:09:10,367 I don't want to see them myselves, but we get to decide where that line is. 164 00:09:10,377 --> 00:09:13,037 So I think that's what you do with people. 165 00:09:13,037 --> 00:09:17,657 What I support people to do is what are you comfortable sharing? 166 00:09:18,027 --> 00:09:21,857 That's non work that allows people to see your. 167 00:09:22,082 --> 00:09:28,492 values to experience your humor or your pastime activities. 168 00:09:28,502 --> 00:09:35,072 So it doesn't have to be in, in infinite detail, but here's how I spent my weekend 169 00:09:35,072 --> 00:09:37,502 or here's a place I love to visit. 170 00:09:37,502 --> 00:09:40,322 Like these are all little connection pieces. 171 00:09:40,322 --> 00:09:44,872 Like we talked about connection that allow people to relate 172 00:09:44,882 --> 00:09:47,312 to us in a, in a bigger way. 173 00:09:47,312 --> 00:09:51,552 And often those are the very things that help them make their buying decisions. 174 00:09:52,552 --> 00:09:53,242 I absolutely agree. 175 00:09:53,242 --> 00:09:54,422 And we've talked about this before. 176 00:09:54,422 --> 00:09:57,462 There's that level of each person has a level of comfort 177 00:09:58,142 --> 00:09:59,612 of how much they want to share. 178 00:10:00,612 --> 00:10:06,452 And a lot of us that came from corporate backgrounds were encouraged 179 00:10:06,452 --> 00:10:08,142 not to share any of that, right? 180 00:10:08,162 --> 00:10:09,812 It's for the company, it's for the brand. 181 00:10:10,072 --> 00:10:11,452 No one cares about you. 182 00:10:11,462 --> 00:10:13,402 They just want to know about this bigger thing. 183 00:10:14,172 --> 00:10:18,032 And over time we found that's absolutely not true. 184 00:10:18,602 --> 00:10:25,652 We want, people want to know more, and so for me, it's been a challenge to do 185 00:10:25,652 --> 00:10:29,562 people really care how much of this, and it's something that I honestly, full 186 00:10:29,562 --> 00:10:34,192 transparency, I do struggle with that sometimes, because I don't, I, there's 187 00:10:34,192 --> 00:10:38,032 so many things that I just take for granted about my life that I don't think 188 00:10:38,042 --> 00:10:39,452 anyone else is going to want to know. 189 00:10:39,842 --> 00:10:45,342 And it's a way of learning and I think it's something that we grew up with 190 00:10:45,462 --> 00:10:49,472 that, younger generations don't, they want to share a lot of people, not 191 00:10:49,472 --> 00:10:53,712 everyone, I'm not trying to generalize, but are more comfortable sharing more 192 00:10:53,712 --> 00:10:55,262 because it's always been an option. 193 00:10:56,062 --> 00:10:56,522 Yeah. 194 00:10:57,252 --> 00:10:57,642 Yeah. 195 00:10:57,692 --> 00:11:02,712 And that's why I think it always goes back to supporting people 196 00:11:03,092 --> 00:11:08,942 with what their current comfort level is, what their goals are. 197 00:11:08,992 --> 00:11:13,882 I mean, if they want more clients and more sales and that's not happening and they're 198 00:11:13,882 --> 00:11:19,752 doing all the things, it may be that this piece is missing the piece about their 199 00:11:19,762 --> 00:11:23,512 values, the piece about their uniqueness. 200 00:11:24,052 --> 00:11:29,652 And I think it's about supporting people to first do a little of that exploration 201 00:11:30,132 --> 00:11:36,322 and then make decisions about what, like you're saying, how far do they want to go? 202 00:11:36,352 --> 00:11:41,572 It doesn't take much to tell people what book you're reading so they get a 203 00:11:41,572 --> 00:11:43,852 sense of, oh, oh, that's interesting. 204 00:11:43,972 --> 00:11:46,422 Now, they're not going to say I'm going to hire her because 205 00:11:46,422 --> 00:11:47,422 we're reading the same book. 206 00:11:47,437 --> 00:11:53,347 But as when they're looking at so many marketers who do similar 207 00:11:53,347 --> 00:11:58,647 work, these are the things that help you stand out, be remembered. 208 00:11:59,147 --> 00:12:05,297 And a lot of it is not just the values and that those things, the books 209 00:12:05,297 --> 00:12:09,837 we're reading or what we do in our spare time, but how we communicate. 210 00:12:09,897 --> 00:12:15,057 When we're showing up online, engaging, like, gee, I'm really sorry 211 00:12:15,057 --> 00:12:17,187 that's happening for you right now. 212 00:12:17,667 --> 00:12:21,257 I, I can relate because this is what happened to me. 213 00:12:21,587 --> 00:12:22,797 People remember that. 214 00:12:22,817 --> 00:12:26,617 They're watching and they're not saying, Oh, look, there's Deb, the marketer. 215 00:12:26,617 --> 00:12:29,337 They're like, Oh, that's kind of nice. 216 00:12:29,532 --> 00:12:31,792 to show up that way for people. 217 00:12:32,222 --> 00:12:37,042 And if that's part of how you work and you're in the mindset arena, 218 00:12:37,442 --> 00:12:40,172 they want to know, how do you engage? 219 00:12:40,172 --> 00:12:42,682 How might you support them one on one? 220 00:12:43,222 --> 00:12:50,022 And we can demonstrate some of that in how we show up on social media and online. 221 00:12:51,022 --> 00:12:55,892 It's so true because there's There's something that I've been like reading 222 00:12:55,892 --> 00:12:59,342 more about and studying because that's such an interesting mindset shift when 223 00:12:59,342 --> 00:13:04,732 you look from self promotion versus personal branding and I think that 224 00:13:04,732 --> 00:13:11,172 there's so many examples out there that we assume we need to show up that way 225 00:13:12,172 --> 00:13:17,912 we assume that this is what like it's just so pervasive that we assume that 226 00:13:17,912 --> 00:13:19,962 that's what we're supposed to be doing. 227 00:13:20,507 --> 00:13:24,617 Yeah, I, one of the things that we were talking about before is that I 228 00:13:24,627 --> 00:13:28,497 tend to tell people that you're where you are, you're perfectly perfect, 229 00:13:28,517 --> 00:13:30,327 right where you are, as you are. 230 00:13:30,687 --> 00:13:37,157 However, if you want to move forward and reach these goals that 231 00:13:37,157 --> 00:13:40,157 you haven't been able to reach, something does need to change. 232 00:13:41,157 --> 00:13:43,877 And that might mean stepping out of a comfort level and it 233 00:13:43,877 --> 00:13:47,057 doesn't mean taking a giant leap and being like, here's my house. 234 00:13:47,057 --> 00:13:47,847 Here's where I live. 235 00:13:47,847 --> 00:13:48,677 This is my kids. 236 00:13:48,677 --> 00:13:49,477 This is everything. 237 00:13:49,887 --> 00:13:51,417 Here's my deepest, darkest secret. 238 00:13:51,457 --> 00:13:55,557 No, it's what are the things that you're open to share? 239 00:13:55,557 --> 00:14:02,217 What are the stories big or small that you might be open to sharing? 240 00:14:03,217 --> 00:14:04,667 Yeah, exactly. 241 00:14:04,677 --> 00:14:11,497 And, and for me, one of the shifts, if you will, was that I did a lot of the 242 00:14:11,497 --> 00:14:17,097 personal here's what I'm doing, here's a story about this in my home or whatever. 243 00:14:17,497 --> 00:14:20,147 And, Here's how I support people. 244 00:14:20,147 --> 00:14:26,427 Here are some steps you can take the shift for me was working to combine those 245 00:14:26,427 --> 00:14:32,707 two things because I was often heavy on the let's just have fun on social media. 246 00:14:33,017 --> 00:14:35,367 I'm your friend and not. 247 00:14:35,617 --> 00:14:41,007 Oh, and then, okay, here's a post about how to write a better email and when we 248 00:14:41,027 --> 00:14:46,167 can tell the stories like you help people really identify and get comfortable 249 00:14:46,167 --> 00:14:51,587 with of weaving those things together, and we do it in our own heads, but we 250 00:14:51,587 --> 00:14:53,547 don't always think to put that in our. 251 00:14:53,827 --> 00:14:54,487 content. 252 00:14:54,917 --> 00:14:59,497 Oh, I'm making this, recipe from my family. 253 00:14:59,877 --> 00:15:05,047 It's kind of like how I work with clients and what we do, find those threads 254 00:15:05,087 --> 00:15:10,797 and then post some of that on social media that brings the two together. 255 00:15:10,797 --> 00:15:16,787 So for me, when I did more of that it just started making a difference in my work. 256 00:15:17,787 --> 00:15:22,887 So speaking of bringing more of you together, when you started your 257 00:15:22,897 --> 00:15:30,792 business, What made you decide to start with your name and personal 258 00:15:31,212 --> 00:15:33,332 branding for your name specifically? 259 00:15:33,342 --> 00:15:36,122 Because you can reach Deb at debcomen.Com. 260 00:15:36,252 --> 00:15:40,502 It took me six years to get to that point and understand 261 00:15:40,502 --> 00:15:41,512 that's what I wanted to do. 262 00:15:41,512 --> 00:15:42,502 So I'm curious. 263 00:15:43,502 --> 00:15:45,052 What made you start there? 264 00:15:45,462 --> 00:15:45,932 Yeah. 265 00:15:45,952 --> 00:15:51,582 So it simply, I mean, I love to come up with names and naming things. 266 00:15:51,642 --> 00:15:58,262 And I also felt like people are hiring me, the person to support them. 267 00:15:58,762 --> 00:16:05,182 Like we're talking about with my unique background and way of working with people. 268 00:16:05,797 --> 00:16:09,827 And once we add a name, and I know for some there's a reason to do 269 00:16:09,827 --> 00:16:15,147 that, a brand other than our name, there's a tiny, now there's a step. 270 00:16:15,327 --> 00:16:17,557 Oh, I see the brand name. 271 00:16:17,567 --> 00:16:18,707 Wait, who is that? 272 00:16:19,147 --> 00:16:23,397 And it really struck me, Kendra, early on when I would get emails from someone 273 00:16:23,397 --> 00:16:25,977 and In the email, it was only the brand. 274 00:16:26,477 --> 00:16:32,147 It was signed the brand and I didn't know who it was until I did a little 275 00:16:32,307 --> 00:16:34,267 research and said, Oh, it's her. 276 00:16:34,327 --> 00:16:35,427 I really like her. 277 00:16:35,777 --> 00:16:39,317 But to be honest, when I read those emails without knowing it was her. 278 00:16:40,092 --> 00:16:42,342 I didn't feel that connection to that. 279 00:16:42,652 --> 00:16:47,462 So for me, it was kind of, just seemed like the obvious thing that I 280 00:16:47,472 --> 00:16:52,022 want people to remember me and know me and that they're getting me, not 281 00:16:52,242 --> 00:16:54,532 someone on my team when they hire me. 282 00:16:54,912 --> 00:16:57,782 And there's nothing wrong with people who work that way, but the way 283 00:16:57,782 --> 00:17:01,342 my business is structured, you're hiring me to write those emails for 284 00:17:01,342 --> 00:17:03,582 you and to teach you the strategy. 285 00:17:03,592 --> 00:17:05,552 So why not keep it simple? 286 00:17:06,552 --> 00:17:09,802 I think that's really important and I think it I mean it obviously depends on 287 00:17:09,802 --> 00:17:12,452 the business, it depends on the structure, it depends on what you're doing but 288 00:17:12,452 --> 00:17:17,892 for a service based business as someone who had two brands and two sides in 289 00:17:17,902 --> 00:17:23,182 my business and was trying to navigate them and coming from corporate I very 290 00:17:23,182 --> 00:17:28,627 much had a very large step in between me because this is how Kendra Would 291 00:17:28,637 --> 00:17:30,467 the person would respond to something. 292 00:17:30,467 --> 00:17:32,737 This is how kind of the marketer would respond to something or the marketing 293 00:17:32,737 --> 00:17:34,067 strategist would respond to something. 294 00:17:34,437 --> 00:17:38,877 This is how field marketing or motor marketing or the brand 295 00:17:38,887 --> 00:17:39,797 would respond to something. 296 00:17:39,797 --> 00:17:44,317 So all of a sudden I have like 40 filters in front of me, not 297 00:17:44,317 --> 00:17:47,517 even including like the number of things I was trying to manage. 298 00:17:47,752 --> 00:17:55,102 But I found that with those filters in front of me creating copy and writing was 299 00:17:55,102 --> 00:17:59,542 so hard and it's always been something that came very naturally to me, but I 300 00:17:59,552 --> 00:18:03,942 felt like I was like, okay, let me put on my brand hat and now I've got to write 301 00:18:03,942 --> 00:18:09,292 like with the brand hat on and it was such a difference and it was so freeing 302 00:18:09,292 --> 00:18:11,232 once I decided to let all of that go. 303 00:18:11,987 --> 00:18:14,097 Yeah, I mean completely. 304 00:18:14,097 --> 00:18:18,217 And I think when you, when people choose a brand name other 305 00:18:18,217 --> 00:18:21,027 than their name, that's fine. 306 00:18:21,337 --> 00:18:25,827 They just really need to work to get their name and their face out 307 00:18:25,827 --> 00:18:27,817 there if they want that connection. 308 00:18:27,827 --> 00:18:31,057 Like you said, if it fits with their business structure. 309 00:18:31,397 --> 00:18:38,127 Things like, we've seen before is your profile on social media, your logo. 310 00:18:38,527 --> 00:18:40,187 image, or is it your face? 311 00:18:40,187 --> 00:18:44,877 These are the things that allow us to kind of still make the connection 312 00:18:45,137 --> 00:18:48,137 without just being behind the brand. 313 00:18:48,667 --> 00:18:51,757 And again, it might work for some people, but if we're service based, 314 00:18:51,757 --> 00:18:56,067 if we work one on one or small groups where we want people to know 315 00:18:56,067 --> 00:18:59,957 us, then we have to get ourselves. 316 00:18:59,977 --> 00:19:01,667 More than just the brand name. 317 00:19:01,817 --> 00:19:05,867 So, and I want to say something very specifically because Deb said that 318 00:19:05,867 --> 00:19:08,727 she would actually research emails to figure out who they were coming 319 00:19:08,727 --> 00:19:10,897 from, because she's a nice person. 320 00:19:11,337 --> 00:19:14,267 I, if I don't know who's emailing me or why they're emailing 321 00:19:14,267 --> 00:19:15,547 me, I'm going to delete that. 322 00:19:15,712 --> 00:19:20,612 I think 90 percent of people would also delete that because I'm not saying 323 00:19:20,612 --> 00:19:25,812 yeah, but I live too short if you are going to keep a secret from me and 324 00:19:25,812 --> 00:19:31,082 not tell me who you are and why you're emailing me and I don't know you one. 325 00:19:31,542 --> 00:19:35,792 Read the digital etiquette for dummies book because it's in there. 326 00:19:35,842 --> 00:19:40,832 I wrote the email sections, but two, why are you cluttering my inbox without 327 00:19:40,852 --> 00:19:42,422 letting me know even who you are? 328 00:19:42,582 --> 00:19:46,352 Yeah, you may as well just text me as a person whose name and contact 329 00:19:46,352 --> 00:19:47,592 information isn't in my phone. 330 00:19:47,602 --> 00:19:49,212 Like I'm going to respond the same way. 331 00:19:49,607 --> 00:19:52,397 I'm not going to be the kindhearted person who's going to do the 332 00:19:52,397 --> 00:19:56,702 research to find out why you're emailing and who you're, I love that. 333 00:19:56,897 --> 00:20:00,077 I can't say I always do that, but in that case I was like, wait a minute 334 00:20:00,727 --> 00:20:03,097 again, like asking why am I on this list? 335 00:20:03,097 --> 00:20:05,137 And was I, did I sign up for this? 336 00:20:05,637 --> 00:20:05,727 No. 337 00:20:05,727 --> 00:20:09,047 So I unsubscribe a little but yeah, most people will just let it go. 338 00:20:10,047 --> 00:20:10,557 life's too short. 339 00:20:10,617 --> 00:20:11,097 Unsubscribe. 340 00:20:11,097 --> 00:20:12,567 Yeah, it's true. 341 00:20:12,827 --> 00:20:13,632 And the same with. 342 00:20:13,727 --> 00:20:16,097 People not using their name anywhere. 343 00:20:16,397 --> 00:20:18,457 It's hard to make connection. 344 00:20:18,747 --> 00:20:20,697 What if you want to send them a note? 345 00:20:20,727 --> 00:20:23,137 Are you saying, dear, you know, brand name? 346 00:20:23,667 --> 00:20:27,727 Or do you want to say, hey, Kendra, I love what you just sent out today. 347 00:20:28,647 --> 00:20:31,737 The other thing related to that is people speaking in the third 348 00:20:31,737 --> 00:20:33,777 person in all their content. 349 00:20:34,337 --> 00:20:35,907 I mean, that's a biggie. 350 00:20:35,917 --> 00:20:40,017 And I'm sure it goes back to proper English or what you learned at school. 351 00:20:40,357 --> 00:20:42,487 But if you were writing dead. 352 00:20:42,862 --> 00:20:48,642 is doing this week and I'm the brand, I'm the person, why would I not say I? 353 00:20:49,452 --> 00:20:54,237 And again, not faulting people, but I think we don't always stop and think 354 00:20:54,247 --> 00:20:57,307 about how is our message being received? 355 00:20:57,597 --> 00:21:01,887 How are, how does it, how is it for that person on the other end? 356 00:21:02,157 --> 00:21:05,327 Not the way we think we're supposed to show up, like you were saying 357 00:21:05,327 --> 00:21:10,817 earlier, but how do, how will they best receive us and our message? 358 00:21:11,457 --> 00:21:11,987 That's so funny. 359 00:21:12,157 --> 00:21:15,657 I don't actually, I have to go back through and change my stuff because I tend 360 00:21:15,657 --> 00:21:21,297 to say we, and I've done this my entire life, both personally and professionally. 361 00:21:21,297 --> 00:21:22,877 Like we're doing this, we're doing that. 362 00:21:23,127 --> 00:21:28,037 I don't know how many of me, sometimes it's me and my dog, sometimes it's me 363 00:21:28,037 --> 00:21:32,067 and friends, sometimes it's me and the former team I had when they were my 364 00:21:32,067 --> 00:21:35,122 team, like we, and it is very much like. 365 00:21:35,592 --> 00:21:36,802 No, it's me. 366 00:21:36,922 --> 00:21:38,012 I'm doing it. 367 00:21:38,042 --> 00:21:41,682 Stop giving someone else this imaginary royal we credit, right? 368 00:21:41,702 --> 00:21:43,352 Like it is just me. 369 00:21:44,232 --> 00:21:44,932 Right. 370 00:21:45,092 --> 00:21:47,082 And it probably goes back to mindset. 371 00:21:47,082 --> 00:21:51,202 I'm sure as you see with your clients, and I know I've experienced, like, 372 00:21:51,202 --> 00:21:54,382 how confident are we saying I? 373 00:21:54,962 --> 00:21:55,212 Yeah. 374 00:21:55,492 --> 00:21:59,402 You know, I, this is the way to be. 375 00:21:59,472 --> 00:22:00,322 This is what I. 376 00:22:00,587 --> 00:22:04,987 I think you should do, the more comfortable we get with that, the more 377 00:22:04,987 --> 00:22:09,657 we're able to just go out there with the I instead of the brand name or, 378 00:22:09,807 --> 00:22:11,527 my other, like, here's my pet peeve. 379 00:22:11,527 --> 00:22:15,527 We're going to, it's along the lines, here's my pet peeve. 380 00:22:15,567 --> 00:22:21,547 And I, when I ran a department and an agency, my last job, I would go 381 00:22:21,547 --> 00:22:24,517 in client meetings and it was always the women that did this, but they 382 00:22:24,517 --> 00:22:27,697 would say, well, You know, we'd be talking to a client and they'd say, 383 00:22:27,697 --> 00:22:29,507 Well, I kind of did this research. 384 00:22:30,187 --> 00:22:31,177 Okay, you know what? 385 00:22:31,187 --> 00:22:32,587 You didn't kind of do research. 386 00:22:32,627 --> 00:22:35,217 I saw you spend like 10 hours doing research. 387 00:22:35,907 --> 00:22:39,087 And when you start to get those hedging words in there, so it's kind 388 00:22:39,087 --> 00:22:40,807 of, it's kind of the same, right? 389 00:22:40,817 --> 00:22:42,377 It's very similar to the we. 390 00:22:42,947 --> 00:22:44,347 Or not taking credit. 391 00:22:44,777 --> 00:22:47,677 It's you either did it or you didn't. 392 00:22:48,677 --> 00:22:54,037 If you, and it's creating those hedging words that also hold you back 393 00:22:54,037 --> 00:22:56,327 because then you're not committing to something that you already did. 394 00:22:56,777 --> 00:22:59,597 You spent days doing this research. 395 00:22:59,807 --> 00:23:00,367 Own it. 396 00:23:00,487 --> 00:23:04,137 You spent a lot of time learning these things so that you can 397 00:23:04,137 --> 00:23:05,517 present it and talk about it. 398 00:23:05,587 --> 00:23:08,377 It doesn't matter. 399 00:23:08,377 --> 00:23:12,587 I mean, okay, I'm a former professor, so it doesn't matter if you took classes 400 00:23:12,927 --> 00:23:14,487 as long as you found the way to learn. 401 00:23:15,487 --> 00:23:15,777 Yeah. 402 00:23:15,777 --> 00:23:17,627 And you're so right in that. 403 00:23:17,657 --> 00:23:20,907 And even as I was sharing that story, I'm saying, well, I think I don't even 404 00:23:20,907 --> 00:23:25,947 want to use that example because often we say, I think this is the way to go. 405 00:23:26,227 --> 00:23:27,386 And you're so right. 406 00:23:27,687 --> 00:23:29,407 this is what I'm recommending. 407 00:23:30,027 --> 00:23:30,197 Yeah. 408 00:23:30,237 --> 00:23:34,787 It's very different than this is what I think you may want to do if you agree. 409 00:23:34,787 --> 00:23:37,047 And I'm a big offender. 410 00:23:37,467 --> 00:23:44,067 And in that way of showing up, we're eroding our own confidence and confidence 411 00:23:44,077 --> 00:23:50,162 in us, our own trust, because people are You know, they seem like small little 412 00:23:50,172 --> 00:23:56,042 tweaks, but they make a huge difference for our own ability to step into, our own 413 00:23:56,072 --> 00:23:58,202 conviction about what it is we're saying. 414 00:23:58,442 --> 00:24:01,812 And also, people make their buying decisions based on trust. 415 00:24:02,112 --> 00:24:08,407 We need to trust it, and we need to Let them see that in action so that they're 416 00:24:08,447 --> 00:24:12,717 like, we want, do we want them to say, maybe I'll spend my money with you. 417 00:24:12,987 --> 00:24:15,227 Maybe I won't, I'm not really sure. 418 00:24:15,237 --> 00:24:18,347 No, we want, like, we want to help people make a decision. 419 00:24:18,357 --> 00:24:19,117 Yes or no. 420 00:24:19,397 --> 00:24:22,377 No's are fine, but let's make a decision. 421 00:24:22,397 --> 00:24:24,227 Let's be who we are. 422 00:24:24,227 --> 00:24:27,947 Let's speak and stand in our convictions. 423 00:24:27,977 --> 00:24:32,317 And then, if we're the right person and it's the right time, they'll say yes. 424 00:24:33,317 --> 00:24:36,757 It's so funny you were saying that I absolutely was just thinking of a 425 00:24:36,757 --> 00:24:38,867 story, like an example I heard, right? 426 00:24:38,877 --> 00:24:42,157 Like we're marketers, business owners. 427 00:24:43,137 --> 00:24:44,037 We have our place. 428 00:24:44,037 --> 00:24:45,257 We know what we're doing. 429 00:24:45,297 --> 00:24:47,457 We know we're good at it, but we have trouble. 430 00:24:47,457 --> 00:24:48,747 It's that self promotion, right? 431 00:24:48,747 --> 00:24:53,813 Like it feels gross or somebody the other day I said to quote a friend of 432 00:24:53,813 --> 00:24:58,437 mine, she said, it feels like garbage to self promote, but here's the deal. 433 00:24:58,887 --> 00:25:00,627 I don't want to go to a surgeon. 434 00:25:00,667 --> 00:25:08,557 I don't want to get on a flight and have the pilot say, well, I, I think 435 00:25:08,557 --> 00:25:09,927 we're going to do pretty well today. 436 00:25:10,927 --> 00:25:15,547 I was looking at the weather chart and the navigation and I 437 00:25:15,567 --> 00:25:17,206 think pretty sure we'll be okay. 438 00:25:18,206 --> 00:25:23,666 Here's hoping the surgeon that walks in like, I kind of think that 439 00:25:23,666 --> 00:25:26,566 it's, you know, your gallbladder. 440 00:25:27,486 --> 00:25:30,186 Oh, maybe I'll find out something different. 441 00:25:30,196 --> 00:25:31,266 Maybe it'll be your appendix. 442 00:25:31,286 --> 00:25:31,626 I don't know. 443 00:25:31,626 --> 00:25:32,056 We'll find out. 444 00:25:32,106 --> 00:25:32,856 We'll just do it. 445 00:25:32,936 --> 00:25:33,396 We'll see. 446 00:25:33,476 --> 00:25:33,986 Yeah. 447 00:25:34,986 --> 00:25:38,076 Like, yeah, we're not doing surgery and we're not flying people, but 448 00:25:38,076 --> 00:25:43,526 at the same time for your business, I'm going to take it as seriously. 449 00:25:44,091 --> 00:25:49,921 Because it is so much to my clients and it is so much my business means a lot to me. 450 00:25:50,491 --> 00:25:50,861 Yeah. 451 00:25:51,191 --> 00:25:55,991 That while I'm not curing cancer, it is still important. 452 00:25:56,681 --> 00:25:57,011 Yeah. 453 00:25:57,311 --> 00:26:01,791 And so for all of us to show up from so many of us to show up like, 454 00:26:01,831 --> 00:26:04,031 Oh, kind of, I kind of did that. 455 00:26:05,031 --> 00:26:05,481 Great. 456 00:26:05,831 --> 00:26:07,631 We can't be wishy washy. 457 00:26:07,671 --> 00:26:13,461 I mean, and like to what you said earlier, like, and is there a way, like there is 458 00:26:13,461 --> 00:26:20,421 room for nice in business, unless nice is undermining how we show up confidently, 459 00:26:20,431 --> 00:26:23,546 which in my case, I have done that before. 460 00:26:23,816 --> 00:26:24,976 I want to be nice to the person. 461 00:26:24,976 --> 00:26:25,856 I don't want to push them. 462 00:26:25,856 --> 00:26:26,116 I don't want to. 463 00:26:26,166 --> 00:26:27,846 Well, no, that's fine. 464 00:26:28,166 --> 00:26:30,516 You can still make invitations. 465 00:26:30,546 --> 00:26:32,186 You can still make offers. 466 00:26:32,186 --> 00:26:33,586 Like we talk about promotion. 467 00:26:34,066 --> 00:26:38,886 I really like to think about it as making offers with solutions for 468 00:26:38,886 --> 00:26:41,006 people who have, have a challenge. 469 00:26:41,216 --> 00:26:44,696 If we're not going to promote, we're not going to make those offers to them. 470 00:26:44,956 --> 00:26:48,146 Are we going to just let them sit there and figure it out on their own? 471 00:26:48,736 --> 00:26:54,056 And the same to how, Often or frequently we might do it, or how 472 00:26:54,056 --> 00:26:57,426 many emails are you going to send when you're promoting something? 473 00:26:57,986 --> 00:27:02,506 You might feel like you're bombarding or bothering, but 474 00:27:02,846 --> 00:27:05,406 people need ample opportunity. 475 00:27:06,086 --> 00:27:10,636 and sufficient information, which is why when we're doing an email 476 00:27:10,666 --> 00:27:13,566 campaign, we're going to touch on different things because different 477 00:27:13,566 --> 00:27:15,996 things are going to matter to people. 478 00:27:16,486 --> 00:27:20,086 Not everyone is going to use the same criteria to make their decision. 479 00:27:20,726 --> 00:27:24,286 So when people say I sent two emails, three emails, no one bought 480 00:27:24,296 --> 00:27:26,666 the thing, it must be terrible. 481 00:27:26,666 --> 00:27:27,626 I'm terrible. 482 00:27:27,626 --> 00:27:33,326 I know they didn't see it or you didn't give them enough information or you 483 00:27:33,326 --> 00:27:36,026 didn't give them enough time or reminders. 484 00:27:36,036 --> 00:27:41,206 I think that we have a lot of, things to examine when it comes to why people 485 00:27:41,216 --> 00:27:43,216 feel uncomfortable about promoting. 486 00:27:43,666 --> 00:27:47,326 Certainly there's a lot of stuff out there that is garbage and gross and 487 00:27:47,336 --> 00:27:52,106 feels like we don't want any part of that, but that doesn't mean that's the 488 00:27:52,106 --> 00:27:57,266 only way to get our work out there and to get hired and to get new clients. 489 00:27:57,372 --> 00:27:58,122 A hundred percent. 490 00:27:58,232 --> 00:28:01,972 Those of you listening can clearly see why she's so good at what she does. 491 00:28:02,362 --> 00:28:06,012 You can hear your desire to help people and that empathy 492 00:28:06,012 --> 00:28:08,362 that you have come through. 493 00:28:08,922 --> 00:28:12,892 That's why you created your trust framework to help people 494 00:28:12,892 --> 00:28:14,212 get past that too, right? 495 00:28:14,212 --> 00:28:14,872 Exactly. 496 00:28:14,872 --> 00:28:17,822 And it's really why I created a lot of the things I've created 497 00:28:17,822 --> 00:28:19,412 are things that I just did. 498 00:28:19,477 --> 00:28:24,787 And then like we talked about slow myself down to say what is my process 499 00:28:24,787 --> 00:28:28,997 so that one I could just take a look at that and be able to make it into a 500 00:28:28,997 --> 00:28:33,677 framework like you've done with yours to be able to teach it to someone else. 501 00:28:33,677 --> 00:28:36,507 I have a framework around what to do when you. 502 00:28:36,882 --> 00:28:41,192 want to engage more on social media or people don't usually approach it that way. 503 00:28:41,432 --> 00:28:43,502 They want social media to work for them. 504 00:28:43,502 --> 00:28:48,132 How does it work where it gets us business or gets us visibility? 505 00:28:48,592 --> 00:28:52,842 And the trust framework is just to slow people down before they just hop 506 00:28:52,842 --> 00:28:54,602 on there and post their next thing. 507 00:28:54,952 --> 00:29:00,362 There's a process of engaging in a way that's meaningful with other people. 508 00:29:01,252 --> 00:29:02,644 So that's where I came from. 509 00:29:03,442 --> 00:29:06,152 I love it because otherwise you're just spinning your wheels like you're posting 510 00:29:06,152 --> 00:29:11,392 to post you're not putting much thought into it and I've seen a lot there's so 511 00:29:11,402 --> 00:29:16,242 many different philosophies when it comes to posting on social media writing emails 512 00:29:16,502 --> 00:29:23,012 promoting your brand promoting yourself and there's so many different philosophies 513 00:29:23,052 --> 00:29:30,562 and approaches that really it makes the trust method the trust framework you've 514 00:29:30,572 --> 00:29:37,202 created stand out because none of them that I've seen Include the very important 515 00:29:37,212 --> 00:29:40,382 step of taking it in and reflecting. 516 00:29:40,832 --> 00:29:40,942 Yeah. 517 00:29:41,572 --> 00:29:42,072 Yeah. 518 00:29:42,442 --> 00:29:43,102 Thank you. 519 00:29:43,132 --> 00:29:47,322 And for me, one of the things that happened that made it so much more 520 00:29:47,322 --> 00:29:54,212 meaningful to me was when I slowed myself down, looked at the process and really 521 00:29:54,212 --> 00:29:56,572 made it a point of leading with that. 522 00:29:56,612 --> 00:30:01,272 I've always done the engagement, but I had run out of my own content and it's 523 00:30:01,272 --> 00:30:04,442 like, Oh, All right, I'll just engage. 524 00:30:04,452 --> 00:30:09,552 I'll do and right after that was when BuzzSumo recognized me as a top 525 00:30:10,007 --> 00:30:12,607 100 content marketer at the time. 526 00:30:12,987 --> 00:30:18,877 And what I loved about it is it wasn't based on numbers, followers, 527 00:30:19,197 --> 00:30:20,227 any of that kind of stuff. 528 00:30:20,567 --> 00:30:23,497 It was based on data that had to do with engagement. 529 00:30:23,857 --> 00:30:26,777 How much are you engaging with other people's content? 530 00:30:27,277 --> 00:30:33,537 Versus adding your links or posting and all the things I was doing and because 531 00:30:33,587 --> 00:30:38,887 that's what really, you know, not just about being recognized, but that's what 532 00:30:38,887 --> 00:30:44,947 also allows you to open social media again after doing the trust steps and you 533 00:30:44,947 --> 00:30:47,456 have a whole bunch of notifications of. 534 00:30:48,007 --> 00:30:50,847 conversations happening because of that. 535 00:30:50,887 --> 00:30:54,357 So now you're not just posting the next thing. 536 00:30:54,577 --> 00:30:57,617 You're actually having meaningful conversation with different 537 00:30:57,617 --> 00:31:02,737 people and it's way easier later to create content from that. 538 00:31:03,287 --> 00:31:06,097 You know, what are the, what, what's inspiring me to now 539 00:31:06,377 --> 00:31:08,247 share more about my process. 540 00:31:08,477 --> 00:31:11,327 But, um, so it really works. 541 00:31:11,357 --> 00:31:14,642 And I think many, People do it naturally. 542 00:31:14,992 --> 00:31:19,172 Some don't even, doesn't even cross their mind to do this. 543 00:31:19,202 --> 00:31:22,142 They just think social media doesn't work for them. 544 00:31:22,682 --> 00:31:28,212 And, um, it's much to what you do with people about moving from invisible to 545 00:31:28,212 --> 00:31:34,522 invincible is like, get in there and have conversations, not just about what you 546 00:31:34,522 --> 00:31:40,082 want to be talking about, but what do the people you want to be connected with. 547 00:31:40,872 --> 00:31:45,732 Are already talking about how can you show up there I want to point out that 548 00:31:45,732 --> 00:31:52,322 you can see that you can hear tabs passion for this and when you look at 549 00:31:52,322 --> 00:31:56,452 the conversations that are happening and creating that engagement when it's 550 00:31:56,452 --> 00:31:58,642 really just like a natural curiosity. 551 00:31:59,357 --> 00:32:03,827 And empathy towards making those connections and a focus there when you 552 00:32:03,827 --> 00:32:08,227 start to shift that I need to be selling a hundred percent of the time and start 553 00:32:08,227 --> 00:32:13,537 to create a balance between the two, you, it is going to work and those 554 00:32:13,557 --> 00:32:18,087 types of actions, those little actions that Deb's recommending and those tips 555 00:32:18,097 --> 00:32:23,237 she's giving us right now is really the difference that makes the difference 556 00:32:23,907 --> 00:32:26,327 when you start connecting with people. 557 00:32:27,327 --> 00:32:32,547 Yeah, it is so easy and there's so many companies out there who just push 558 00:32:32,547 --> 00:32:37,677 information and still use social media and who still use the internet as a way 559 00:32:37,677 --> 00:32:43,307 to just amass advertisement and when companies start showing their employees 560 00:32:43,327 --> 00:32:49,567 and when companies start posting as them as the people, not the brand. 561 00:32:50,567 --> 00:32:53,597 You know, Wendy's, those things aside, National Park Service, hilarious, 562 00:32:53,627 --> 00:32:58,407 by the way, aside, but for the smaller business owners, and I've 563 00:32:58,407 --> 00:33:01,827 seen it and I've worked across all these different industries, right? 564 00:33:01,927 --> 00:33:05,727 I had two sides of an agency working cannabis and CBD and higher ed, fintech, 565 00:33:06,307 --> 00:33:10,437 and every single time when we focused on people and not the product and not 566 00:33:10,437 --> 00:33:14,457 the service and not the thing you were selling 100 percent of the time and you 567 00:33:14,477 --> 00:33:20,847 gave people that chance to see the people behind it, that's where the difference 568 00:33:20,937 --> 00:33:25,267 came in and that is Deb's talking about you're just talking about making that 569 00:33:25,277 --> 00:33:30,097 one step, taking that one step further and actually connecting with people 570 00:33:30,147 --> 00:33:32,061 and engaging with them at that point. 571 00:33:32,522 --> 00:33:33,222 Yeah. 572 00:33:33,522 --> 00:33:34,142 I mean, it does. 573 00:33:34,142 --> 00:33:34,692 It works. 574 00:33:34,692 --> 00:33:36,532 And, and you build trust. 575 00:33:36,532 --> 00:33:40,152 And I know you've experienced this too, that when we build those 576 00:33:40,152 --> 00:33:44,972 relationships and it's not just the one conversation like, Oh, I'll hop in here. 577 00:33:44,972 --> 00:33:49,802 Cause it's on my topic, but when we make it a point to seek those out, then 578 00:33:49,812 --> 00:33:52,232 moving forward, where are those people? 579 00:33:52,232 --> 00:33:54,442 Where's the conversation going next time? 580 00:33:54,992 --> 00:34:00,527 Then we, Find or I have found, I know you have too, people will 581 00:34:00,527 --> 00:34:06,337 refer work to us and they've never seen our product or deliverable. 582 00:34:06,817 --> 00:34:09,957 They've never seen an email I've written, but they'll say, 583 00:34:09,957 --> 00:34:11,247 Oh, you need help with email. 584 00:34:11,247 --> 00:34:13,417 You should, talk to Deb, get to know her. 585 00:34:14,377 --> 00:34:15,357 Why is that? 586 00:34:15,387 --> 00:34:20,017 Well, it's because they trust us and they are seeing us communicate and 587 00:34:20,017 --> 00:34:25,527 engage that they can then make the trust inference that, Oh, she probably 588 00:34:25,527 --> 00:34:27,077 does a really good job with that too. 589 00:34:27,217 --> 00:34:30,907 So, so, but it's a much more natural way. 590 00:34:31,422 --> 00:34:36,732 Then here's my latest, greatest thing you can buy, and it's fine. 591 00:34:36,742 --> 00:34:40,802 We do do that some of the time, but that can't be the bulk of it. 592 00:34:40,942 --> 00:34:44,472 That is why email's not working, or that is why social media is not 593 00:34:44,472 --> 00:34:49,112 working because you're using it as a one way broadcasting tool. 594 00:34:50,112 --> 00:34:54,812 As a rule of thumb, when I've taught social media in the past, I always 595 00:34:54,812 --> 00:34:59,062 recommended it was like no more than 20 percent should be promotional and sales. 596 00:34:59,132 --> 00:35:02,342 Everything else should be adding value and educating and inspiring 597 00:35:02,342 --> 00:35:04,292 or whatever aligns with the brand and the type of content. 598 00:35:04,962 --> 00:35:09,052 Is that a rule of thumb that you still think is accurate 599 00:35:09,052 --> 00:35:10,862 or do you scale it up or down? 600 00:35:10,862 --> 00:35:11,832 What does that look like? 601 00:35:11,872 --> 00:35:14,302 It's funny because I don't usually use. 602 00:35:15,192 --> 00:35:19,932 I've heard that before and I, maybe that's how my numbers would stack up. 603 00:35:19,932 --> 00:35:26,662 I honestly don't know because I tend to ride the wave of what feels natural. 604 00:35:26,942 --> 00:35:30,882 I talk a lot with my clients, if you're not making offers at least every quarter, 605 00:35:31,552 --> 00:35:36,272 then yeah, maybe that's why your revenue isn't where you want it to be or your 606 00:35:36,272 --> 00:35:38,332 client case loader, that sort of thing. 607 00:35:38,702 --> 00:35:43,362 So that's one thing, but as far as going from post to post or platform 608 00:35:43,362 --> 00:35:46,572 to platform or emails, I do agree. 609 00:35:46,572 --> 00:35:51,562 It needs to be a smaller portion where we're actually full on promoting 610 00:35:51,912 --> 00:35:53,542 and have some limiters on it. 611 00:35:53,542 --> 00:35:56,052 Like how many emails over how much time. 612 00:35:56,347 --> 00:35:57,127 Sort of thing. 613 00:35:57,617 --> 00:36:01,767 But otherwise, I think it's just, feeling into, and this 614 00:36:01,767 --> 00:36:03,177 is what I do for my clients. 615 00:36:03,177 --> 00:36:08,217 Like it's time, Hey, you haven't made an offer on social media at all. 616 00:36:08,557 --> 00:36:11,957 So people might not even know you do that thing that you do. 617 00:36:11,977 --> 00:36:17,267 I use that as a guide and will help people delineate what is that frequency, 618 00:36:17,267 --> 00:36:19,247 if that's the way they prefer. 619 00:36:19,492 --> 00:36:20,032 to work. 620 00:36:20,762 --> 00:36:23,122 But usually people are lopsided, Kendra. 621 00:36:23,182 --> 00:36:27,712 I mean, they're usually either all promotion or zero promotion. 622 00:36:27,722 --> 00:36:32,902 And a lot of the, my helpers and healers and service providers are very little 623 00:36:32,902 --> 00:36:37,922 promotion because of all the icky stuff we talked about, but they need to be 624 00:36:37,932 --> 00:36:40,602 making opportunities available to people. 625 00:36:40,662 --> 00:36:41,902 , I usually go by that. 626 00:36:42,332 --> 00:36:47,592 And the other thing I will say about engaging in real conversation is when 627 00:36:47,592 --> 00:36:52,512 we build those relationships, the people who know us will say, Hey, Deb, 628 00:36:53,052 --> 00:36:56,512 you have an XYZ available, don't you? 629 00:36:56,832 --> 00:36:58,372 Can you share that here? 630 00:36:58,532 --> 00:37:00,022 And I do that with people too. 631 00:37:00,452 --> 00:37:01,872 I know you have a podcast. 632 00:37:01,892 --> 00:37:05,592 Would you share your podcast with everybody? 633 00:37:05,602 --> 00:37:14,302 So we can trust that when we show up not looking for podcast listeners necessarily 634 00:37:14,302 --> 00:37:18,582 in other people's conversations, but that when we've built relationships, 635 00:37:18,582 --> 00:37:20,242 we will get those invitations. 636 00:37:20,447 --> 00:37:24,567 That is much more natural way to do it than, Hey, and again, 637 00:37:24,577 --> 00:37:28,167 nothing wrong with, Oh, this was a subject on my podcast recently. 638 00:37:28,177 --> 00:37:31,127 That can be the most natural way to show up. 639 00:37:31,357 --> 00:37:35,157 But if it's brand new people, brand new arena, most of us are 640 00:37:35,157 --> 00:37:40,117 going to wait an opportunity where we're asked to put that in there. 641 00:37:41,117 --> 00:37:45,767 So it's all the seeds, the seeds of building trust, the seeds of starting 642 00:37:45,767 --> 00:37:49,707 relationships with new people and nurturing the ones with the people 643 00:37:49,707 --> 00:37:55,017 we already know, , that ultimately help people make the decision like, 644 00:37:55,017 --> 00:37:56,287 Oh, I want to get to know her more. 645 00:37:56,297 --> 00:38:00,647 I'm going to hop on her email list, or I want to follow her on the other 646 00:38:00,647 --> 00:38:04,477 social media platforms where we both are, and that's how we leave 647 00:38:04,477 --> 00:38:09,067 the breadcrumbs out there for the right people to connect with us more 648 00:38:09,597 --> 00:38:11,777 deeply, ultimately, maybe one on one 649 00:38:12,777 --> 00:38:16,277 Here's the next question that I think people might be wondering is 650 00:38:16,297 --> 00:38:20,807 how much time do you recommend that people spend engaging or creating 651 00:38:21,017 --> 00:38:26,437 content because that could easily be a rabbit hole that takes forever 652 00:38:26,487 --> 00:38:28,937 or it could be, five minutes a day. 653 00:38:29,532 --> 00:38:29,972 Yeah. 654 00:38:29,972 --> 00:38:35,022 So I do teach people how to do it in under 30 minutes a day on 655 00:38:35,022 --> 00:38:37,462 social media, the engagement piece. 656 00:38:38,282 --> 00:38:40,482 You know, myself, I love social media. 657 00:38:40,482 --> 00:38:44,202 I'm sure I spend a lot more than 30 minutes a day as you probably do too. 658 00:38:44,602 --> 00:38:50,592 But it's more on engagement than it is on content posting or content creation. 659 00:38:50,922 --> 00:38:58,552 So it doesn't have to be the rabbit hole and it is more about consistency and the 660 00:38:58,552 --> 00:39:04,502 relationship and how often do you need to show up to keep that relationship going? 661 00:39:04,502 --> 00:39:10,222 What I love about the way I've done it for myself and taught my clients is 662 00:39:10,612 --> 00:39:16,902 it allows for us to be humans who take breaks, who stop posting for a while our 663 00:39:16,902 --> 00:39:19,602 work should not dry up because of that. 664 00:39:19,942 --> 00:39:23,712 If we've built real connections, it won't, it can be unaffected. 665 00:39:24,212 --> 00:39:28,922 So consistency is important, but to me, it's not so much every 666 00:39:28,922 --> 00:39:37,257 Tuesday at noon as being there and contributing value when you're there. 667 00:39:37,807 --> 00:39:42,027 I think it doesn't have to be a lot of time, but I also think it's unrealistic 668 00:39:42,027 --> 00:39:47,157 to say, five minutes a day, and you'll be golden, which everyone wants that, right? 669 00:39:47,487 --> 00:39:49,957 Tell me I can do this without working at all. 670 00:39:49,997 --> 00:39:54,832 Well, it takes a little bit because we need to care about who we're talking with 671 00:39:55,062 --> 00:39:57,402 and be clear about how we want to show up. 672 00:39:58,402 --> 00:39:58,962 I love that. 673 00:39:59,072 --> 00:39:59,552 Thank you. 674 00:40:00,542 --> 00:40:05,492 Deb, as we're wrapping up today, do you have any last advice or tips for 675 00:40:05,492 --> 00:40:08,332 someone who's wondering hypothetically. 676 00:40:09,332 --> 00:40:12,152 She just said engaging with people is easy. 677 00:40:13,152 --> 00:40:14,862 I don't think it's easy. 678 00:40:15,292 --> 00:40:18,292 Do you have a tip that for someone that might be approaching it that way? 679 00:40:18,302 --> 00:40:18,682 Yeah. 680 00:40:19,012 --> 00:40:20,562 I don't know who this person would be. 681 00:40:20,652 --> 00:40:21,562 I know. 682 00:40:21,602 --> 00:40:23,872 I'm sure there's some out there are going to be like, no, this 683 00:40:23,872 --> 00:40:24,982 isn't going to work for me. 684 00:40:25,362 --> 00:40:31,042 Are you the person who, who, doesn't ever strike up a conversation with people. 685 00:40:31,102 --> 00:40:33,332 You might be like, you might be an introvert. 686 00:40:33,372 --> 00:40:37,012 You might be someone who doesn't care to meet new people and all that. 687 00:40:37,712 --> 00:40:43,822 I would go back to, if you're running a business and you're not achieving whatever 688 00:40:43,822 --> 00:40:49,432 goals you have, whether it's clients or revenue, something needs to be different. 689 00:40:50,192 --> 00:40:52,502 You may need some support. 690 00:40:52,897 --> 00:40:56,927 to engage in a way that's more meaningful that works for you. 691 00:40:57,557 --> 00:40:58,517 so try it. 692 00:40:58,637 --> 00:41:01,577 Try some of the things we've talked about here today. 693 00:41:01,947 --> 00:41:07,217 Look for resources or people to help you exercise that a little bit more. 694 00:41:07,797 --> 00:41:13,597 And you may find that it doesn't take much to do the things that we're talking 695 00:41:13,597 --> 00:41:20,687 about here today, but the results are, can be phenomenal and they can save 696 00:41:20,687 --> 00:41:28,017 you so much more time than cranking out content and writing blogs every day. 697 00:41:28,067 --> 00:41:32,127 And again, nothing wrong with that, but there are easier, faster 698 00:41:32,127 --> 00:41:36,587 ways to make connections that help you achieve your business goals. 699 00:41:37,587 --> 00:41:38,147 Thank you. 700 00:41:38,257 --> 00:41:40,897 And on that note, where can people find you? 701 00:41:41,667 --> 00:41:47,087 Oh, they can find me at DebComen.Com and pretty much anywhere on social 702 00:41:47,087 --> 00:41:50,357 media as Deb Komen Writing or Deb Comen. 703 00:41:50,827 --> 00:41:55,707 And I'd love to connect with your audience and, let's us get in there and 704 00:41:55,717 --> 00:41:59,897 practice some of what we're talking about here today and have some conversations 705 00:41:59,897 --> 00:42:01,557 about what's important to you. 706 00:42:02,557 --> 00:42:03,457 I love this. 707 00:42:03,537 --> 00:42:04,467 Thank you so much. 708 00:42:05,187 --> 00:42:08,577 To be clear, part of why I invited Deb here is because she's so good at this. 709 00:42:09,182 --> 00:42:13,042 So where I have to work toward it full transparency, Deb just 710 00:42:13,042 --> 00:42:14,562 does all of this naturally. 711 00:42:14,932 --> 00:42:18,362 So thank you so much for joining us today, Deb. 712 00:42:18,832 --> 00:42:23,802 Thank you, Kendra, and you're better than you think you are at all of this, 713 00:42:23,902 --> 00:42:27,982 and you've been doing it for a long time, , but I appreciate that, and. 714 00:42:28,232 --> 00:42:30,722 It's been really fun talking about it with you today. 715 00:42:31,722 --> 00:42:32,472 Absolutely. 716 00:42:32,492 --> 00:42:33,142 Thank you. 717 00:42:33,172 --> 00:42:35,802 And thank you for listening and joining us today. 718 00:42:35,832 --> 00:42:41,192 And remember at KendraLosee.com, you can find business visibility, strategy 719 00:42:41,192 --> 00:42:45,402 and coaching and the invisible to invincible lab, so join the wait 720 00:42:45,402 --> 00:42:48,802 list and learn more about it for the next time because students are 721 00:42:48,802 --> 00:42:52,862 already showing up and learning a ton and Changing how they approach 722 00:42:52,862 --> 00:42:57,142 their marketing and how they approach how they show up for their business. 723 00:42:57,592 --> 00:43:01,572 Here we're all about passionately driven entrepreneurs guiding you to success in 724 00:43:01,572 --> 00:43:05,362 both business and life because it's never too late to make your business And career 725 00:43:05,362 --> 00:43:07,982 work for you and not the other way around. 726 00:43:08,402 --> 00:43:09,272 Until next time