Welcome to the Love, Sex, and Leadership podcast, where you can discover simple tantric teachings to embody your true power, awaken your soul's wisdom, and live an inspired life as a natural, intuitive, and heart-centered leader. So welcome everyone to Love, sex, and Leadership. I am Very excited about today's guest, Rachel Ricards, who I was fortunate enough to be on her podcast last week, and we figured we'd, uh, continue the conversation cause it went so beautifully and well, and, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm looking forward to our dialogue into this field of of consciousness, of intimacy, of supporting facilitators and their growth and expansion and Yeah, super excited to have you here. Thank you for saying yes. Yeah, thanks for having me, and yeah, super excited to just continue what I like, I haven't had this experience yet of going double time with someone, so I'm really excited to see where we go now. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Well, I'd love to just, you know, for those of you that aren't familiar with, with who you are and the work you're doing in the world, just to share a little bit about kind of your, you know, essentially your journey into the work you're doing now, especially with embodied intimacy and, and holding the field for the last couple of years, just, um, yeah, just some of the, the short tidbits give a general outline of who you are and your journey into this work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so about, it's almost actually 10 years exactly, uh, I think 10 years, it was it was just the 10 year anniversary of Embodied Intimacy's first workshop. So, um, so embodied intimacy has been happening for around 10 years now, and, um, that was a co-creation between me and my ex-partner. Um, which was like our, our love child of the embodied relational work that we were doing in relationship, the way that we were growing community together, and all the tools that were being integrated into our life and like the real time creation of that into a body of work. Uh, which is a very beautiful offering, and um still kind of has the ripples, uh, going out into the world through different uh teachers that are now emerging, um, and as our relationship completed, we kind of moved on and the new, the new, um, evolution of my work became the field. And I, I think I'm, I'm still doing both, a lot of embodied intimacy related work. But now I've um journeyed into the field, which is mostly been a facilitator training, teaching um existing and upcoming facilitators how to work with, um, how to facilitate in this way, which I call now field facilitation. Which is a two-directional, um, style of facilitation where the, where like the, the, the penetration or the doing is equally mirrored or as important as the listening and the receptivity. And it's about there being a dance and, and a listening and facilitating to a very alive organismic field that is emerging in real time. Mm. Yeah, yeah, I mean what what what what I really hear in that, which I love and I I appreciate this about a conversation before is that kind of double-edged sword of facilitation, the really conscious place of listening to what the field is inviting into. Um, and, you know, in my own journey of facilitation and witnessing a lot of times when, when people were speaking at me rather than like with me and including me as the entity to which was informing them as a facilitator, and that's really the essence of how I feel you, uh, communicating this, and I love that. I feel like more of this, yes please, like that's great that more facilitators are learning how to read a field like that. Yeah, yeah, it's really exciting and really new and pioneering and as like the field is revealing to me how to teach it as we go, because I realize not everyone even really understands or or knows or has fully experienced this style of facilitation. Um And it was like, it was also for me, as I was facilitating an embodied intimacy, there I think at the beginning when I first started, it was very much more this like one directional facilitation. And as I, especially working with embodiment and presence and somatics, it started to It occurred to me that like, wait a second, I can keep doing this, which feels a little bit almost, it's an exaggeration, violent or unnatural to keep like, you know, to say, we're gonna keep doing this, despite the fact that I'm feeling you and you're totally not there or not ready, or that's not the right next step. And so it started to kind of naturally emerge through the facilitation that I was, um, was doing. And, and so now this kind of body of work has started to emerge, which is also just informed by many, um, many different other bodies of work that have been studying field dynamics, um, for an existing amount of time, and yeah, it's exciting and lovely and edgy and inspiring for sure. Mhm. And I, I'd love to hear some of your, you know, especially the last few years with with Lilith coming, you know, into the world and being a mother on this field, in this world, and, you know, consciously parenting as well as consciously facilitating some of the, the, the lessons, if you will, that you've learned in that in that journey as well as Maybe some of where the, the, the edgier places have been to be able to, you know, assimilate. So I know sometimes she's coming into your workshops and is there and, and how you feel like that weaves together with the work that you're doing. I, I'd love to hear a little bit of Of how that journey has been as a mother, being a facilitator in the world. So this is the, you know, I have a lot of friends that are mothers that kind of almost take a step back from their work for a little bit, especially in the first couple of years. Um, so, you know, I'd love to hear some of your insights on that. Yeah. Yeah, it's been, it's been great. It's been, it's been really intense. I wasn't planning on having a child, so it's like, when I got pregnant, I already had events on the calendar for the next year, and I was like, what do I, you know, things were already announced and it was all happening. Um, she came to her first event with me at 12 weeks old, so right as we exited the 4th trimester, they say. And, and for the 1st 2 years, as I was a breastfeeding mother, and she needed to be with me, I was literally, there was never a time. When she wasn't with me, so I was, when she would come with me to events, I would be holding space. And then as soon as I would leave the group space, I'd go and breastfeed and be with her. And then I'd be with her until I would go in again. So there'd be like literally 24/7, never having a moment to myself. And that was another kind Of like Jedi training that I could have expected. And what happened, what got revealed to me in those moments was how much of my, because I like, I couldn't go into caretaking my participants anymore. I couldn't, I couldn't overgive. I had nothing left to give. In fact, it was like I was really At my limit, and so it became this real, um, I became like really much more clear of my boundaries and needs for self-care, and really like just attending to what mattered. And so I lost delightfully, all of this kind of codependent caretaking, um, natural signatures that I had just from the way that I was raised and the way I grew up, and how that was informing some of my facilitation. It like, like in that instant of becoming a mother, it was like, you don't have a choice. Anymore. Now it's like the baby is what matters. And, and that was a very real experience for me and the participants to navigate of just like, this is what you get when you get me as a new mom, which, which was also exciting and delightful for people, but they also had to confront that I was like, also kind of, you know, in its shadow, the unavailable mother. Um, but in its beauty, like the who can do it all. Mhm, mhm. The, the, the balance of both of those. Yeah, exactly, exactly, and getting to just be in that very real process with me. And, and did you find, you know, for people who are used to you being more caretaking and kind of there for them 100%, like, what was, what was the inner journey for you in that cause I'm sure there was a certain death that had to happen in order to step into the new shoes of that situation. Totally. Well, the death was of my perfectionist. Like the death was of the part of me, like the superhero version of me that can do it all, that can meet everyone's needs, that can like keep expanding and keep stretching, and keep like holding more and holding more, and that part had to die. I. It was like a very real moment of, I can't actually. And that like humble humility of, wow, I've, I, I now see where my limits are. I have limits, and they're here. And I, I can't meet everyone's needs and I can't do it all. And that has been such a, a gift, even, even now as I enter spaces without my daughter. And that that same, like I didn't go back. That same essence has stayed of like, hey, I can't meet everyone's needs. I won't be to everyone here. I won't be able to do it all. And it has felt, it has felt more empowering in a way. I feel like more of myself and more strength and solid and who I am as a facilitator and uh and uh um and as a, like an ally or a support to the people who show up in my groups. Hm, beautiful, yeah, I love that. Um, I, I'd love to dive into the deeper the realms of, you know, this, these lines between the the personal and professional relating, and especially to get some of your, you know, insights or thoughts between, you know, this comes up so often when people are looking at, you know, tantra and intimacy between Polly and and monogamous relating and You know, I know you've had a a a a vast different levels of experience of weaving, you know, with different partners and then being more with one. And, you know, where you where you reside now, cause I've seen you're starting to put out some more events for singles and how you feel with this kind of this dance between sharing love with many and and sharing love with with one. It's something that, you know, I, I've been constantly. Feeling in from my own personal journey as well as how that relates to the professional world I step into. But yeah, I'd love to hear some of your, your insights and thoughts and, and, and lessons along the way with, with this, with this dichotomy, if you will. Yeah, yeah, it totally is a dichotomy. You know, I think the place that I'm in right now is um There is a an ease in me and an acceptance to meet whatever truth is right now. So there was, there was like a time when, I mean, there hasn't been so many times where monogamy has been like a big thing for me, but there have been moments and there have been moments where like, being Polly was like, I was holding the poly flag and was like, this is the way and the only way. And now that I've journeyed through multiple iterations of that, I have deep Uh, humility and respect and love for the journey that it is to date, and be in relationship with more than one person at a time. It's like, like a full-time job in and of itself. And also a deep respect for what it means to be in monogamy and really committed and fully with one person. And I would say I'm not. I'm not married to any one place. Like I, I don't have a, I don't have a a religion around it. I don't have a set, um, idea that this is the way that I will be now. I have a big open heart that's like, I'm gonna meet whatever and maybe my next partner is monogamous, maybe it's Polly, maybe I don't even enter into partnership. Maybe I'm just solo dating. Like, I actually have no idea. Idea. Um, but that's that place inside of being open to whatever comes and just feeling like I have the tools, I have the capacity to meet relationally, whatever style of relating is actually right relationship and true between me and a person. And I feel I am fully equipped and have all of the capacity and, um, tools that I need to meet it. And that feels different. That's, that's like. Journeying through all the places is like, yeah, right now I could be I can be any religion. I can be any relational style. I have everything I need and like let's see, I'm tickled and touched by what wants to happen as the expression of truth between me and whoever enters into my space. Um, really just allowing. I'm clear that everything requires a different version of work. So the question is more that like, what is like, what is the work that I want to do right now that's like the question that I'm asking. Mhm. What, what's, what's the work that's being invited into this level of relating? Yeah, totally and, and I don't want partnership actually right now. I'm really clear like being single and all the energy that's circulating back into my being in my own personal development and to love the love of my daughter and my groups, like, I'm really clear. I'm super happy here right now. I have no need for partnership, and that's also the first time in my life I've ever felt that. It feels like really. It it feels really luscious and delicious and exciting and good to just be with me right now. Yeah. So I, I, I hear in that there's a more of a celebration of inner union of of the of of knowing yourself more deeply inside. Totally, totally. Yeah, beautiful, and, and I guess in that just one of the the conversations that's always alive for me like when I feel. My masculine energy, there's much more of a freedom lover that's inside, and whereas I feel my feminine energy and, you know, like this project I'm landing in Portugal, I feel myself like wanting to be on land and make babies and go go deep with one. And so I'm kind of always in this conversation between this this in union. I'm wondering if that's something that you've had of yourself. Is there like a strong Direction from either one of these, these two energies inside towards, you know, either union with another or, you know, being more of the, the poly side or if you've had any of that uh awareness inside yourself. You know, I, I'm in such a deep, deep excavation and recalibration around relating right now, and because I've just spent like the last 1213 years have been really like my life was my life was in devotion to relating, that was like at the top of my altar. And now I'm in this place where I'm not relating, and so there's this, this new moment of like, how do I want to relate and what do I want? And, and one of the really beautiful insights that came to me recently, which I hope answers this question, is They're like, call it energies of initiation. When you meet someone and there's an energy that gets initiated, and then that energy has a cycle or a life span in the relationship. And I find that there's so many times when I, that energy opens, and then the latch on to partnership, to romance comes on, and And even once the cycle has completed or finished, or like the transaction has happened, because all the relational stuff is attached to it, I find that there's an inauthentic or non-real um. Container within that. So let me say this in a different way. In a different way, it would be the way that I want to approach relationship now is there's an energy that comes, that gets activated between me and someone else. Before I move into partnership or relationship, I want to let that energy fully move and complete itself and its cycle. And at the end of that breath, then ask myself, is this the person I want to move into partnership with? And that's a fascinating inquiry for me of like, what would happen if I just allowed this energy to move and complete itself, allowed the transaction. Why are you in my life right now? What, what, why am I in your life right now? Like, what is it that we're exchanging or gifting one another? What is this, what is this relationship um calling through us? And to just get more clear on what that is before The agreements, the, the partnership, the moving in, the now we're gonna do this and create like before all that comes in, um, just because I found so much that arrows, um, arrows being activated between me and someone else doesn't necessarily mean romantic. Or even intimate relationship is what's being called for here. When I've given that erotic or arrows energy time to move, sometimes it's like, those are the people I'm supposed to create with, or those are the people I'm meant to make a project with, or that's the person I'm meant to live with. And so it's just making that energy more space to move through before I latch onto it. Being something in particular. Being something romantic and actually uh what I'm hearing in that is really like seeing what the natural flow of life forces that wants to be created between you and another, and it's might be erotically stimulated initially, but there might be a greater evolution of connection that's moving through that. Yes, yeah, so when I get aroused or turned on, cause it happens, there's somebody in a room and I'm like, I'm so attracted to that person, or wow, I can like feel like I can feel my base and I can feel my Yoni getting activated, but I no longer feel that and go, oh, we're supposed to have sex. I feel that, and I go, Cool, there's an energy that wants of creation between us, and I get really what might that be? Se from anything intimate or sensual or sexual. Mhm. So, uh, to go a little bit deeper in that and, you know, bringing a a daughter into this world, do you like, did you feel her soul kind of around before she came into that configuration as a human coming through your body? Totally. So that's one of the most phenomenal things about, I, up until two months before I got pregnant, I was clear I was not having children in this life. And it was, I'll never forget it was Summer solstice 2020. And my, me and my daughter's father were making love, and like the same the same day, we both looked at each other and we're like, there's a soul that wants to come through. And it was like, it was amazing that we both felt it at the same time, in the same moment, and I was like, you know, and he was, he was saying, I'm a yes to this, and I was like, OK, wow, like. OK, I have to like reorient myself to the fact that I'm actually open to this soul coming through, and I thought, saying yes to this would be like a year or something. I was pregnant in a month. It was like, so, so fast, so not so such a surprise, so not expected, um, but this soul was just like, OK, you said yes, I'm here. Um. Um, and that was, yeah, it's my daughter. She's like, all right, I'm coming. I'm here. I'm coming in here, you know, and what's interesting is I've actually talked to other women and um since then, and they've said that they have had the same thing happen, but one woman in particular I talked to said she felt the soul, and she said no to the soul, and it was a really interesting moment because I was like, you can say that? Like, you can say no to it. Did you feel it like I just thought you felt that soul coming and you just have to surrender and say yes. But she said, no, I felt multiple souls come to each of them. I said, no, I, I'm clear, I don't want children in this life. So, just to say that I, I imagine, or I have learned that there is some choice around that. It's not always, it's not always a choiceless moment. Beautiful. Yeah, I mean, that's part of this land I'm on here in Portugal, one of the first times I was down on the river with my beloved, and we both felt had a very similar experience and, you know, we kind of said to the soul, let us like finalize this project, let us finalize this land, and then we'll we'll make everything pretty, and then we'll be ready. So that's and and it's wild, like just like, especially whenever we're making love to you, we can like feel the energy and it's like a very Conscientious. All right, we're not ready, like, we know we're ready, and she's like, OK, I'm waiting. I'm, I'm here. I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm ready when you are. So yeah, it's a, it's a very interesting dance with that, yeah. And do you feel like you have a When it happens, you're really it's, it's a very it's a very clear energetic opening when that happens. Yeah. And do you feel a desire to to bring in additional children in this world? Do you feel feel complete with Lilith? I, for now I feel complete. Um, now that I've had this experience, I'm really clear on what I would need to have more children, and right now I don't have those things, so it's clear to me that it, I wouldn't. But, um, my particular like the work of being a workshop leader and the amount of travel and not having like my own retreat center and community makes it really incompatible, like mothering and this, this profession are, I don't see them as very compatible. I was really, that was why I had, was setting my life up to move in that direction of having a retreat center where I could be, where people could come to me, where I had a whole system supporting, um, me and the family. Um, And that obviously didn't, that didn't work out or happened for me. So, um, I would need something like that to be yes, again, that's, I'm very clear on that. I, I'm, I'm not super stoked on the fact that I'm a solo mom in a little apartment in Berlin right now. It's like, that is so does does so does not feel natural or um. Yeah, it feels like the odds are against this this way of parenting, and I would have never imagined in a million years I'd be here, and this is, this is the experience like I have, but I wouldn't choose it. Hm, well, there's a, a beautiful community in Portugal that's starting down, you know, I. So I'd love to, I know, I'd love to dive into this cause, you know, we, we've discussed a lot about community and things. You looked at, um, with, you know, your, your partner from before land that I was looking at in Costa Rica years ago together. I'd love to hear some of the, the, the lessons that you learned in that place of really, you know, with the intention and desire of grounding community, and I know that it didn't come to fruition. I don't know exactly what, what happened, but I'd love to get some of the The essence of that, especially if it's such a hot topic in people's mind and awareness and really returning to the land and being with the earth and being in community. I'd love to hear what, what really was the, what you learned and what you would do moving forward to, to, to make it more of a reality. Yeah, um, it's a great question. You know, I'm, it's, it's really, it's really hard. I'm really clear, um, you know, my, my partner and I were trying to hold most of the, I would call it like the energetic weight of this project together in our relationship. And doing that, in addition to having a newborn child, was like, basically a relational suicide. Um, it was just too much stress, and it was too, like, the energy of the bigness of that project was too much for two people to hold alone. Very clear on that. Um, and so I wouldn't want ever again the weight of that project to fall on me and my romantic partner. Um, for sure there needs to be more bodies holding more of that, not just, and also not just in the energetic realms, but also in the physical realms. So like, maybe energetically there were a few other people connected to the project with us, but then we like got to the land and we were the ones there, like holding down the like physical piece, and that was also, it was all just too much. Um, maybe a child already, we could have We could have hung out a little bit longer, but having a a a toddler and trying to do that project was Yeah. And I, and I have some questions too, like now, just around, you know, a lot of these projects, the finances is a big thing. And I've seen, I think most of the situations where we see communities happening is where there's potentially one person who has all this money, and the person with the money comes in and makes the project happen, and there's very, very clearly a hierarchy there of like, I have the money, I'm investing into it, I'm making this thing happen. And then there's the other version where there's like a shared financial structure and um. And then there's another option where there's like fundraising for the project, and I can see the pros and cons of each of those, and I actually don't know anymore which one I would, I would, I would choose. I think they're all, yeah, it's, it's challenging in every way. It's challenging when one person is really the financial support of a project and has the last say in everything, and the community is kind of in service of that individual, and it's almost even more More impossible when there's a group of people making decisions together. I mean, it's so painful. Like, that's, that's the situation that we got into, which was like a group of people who all financially put money into the project, but then all the decisions have to weigh through these groups of people in some way. And it's just like, it's like herding cats. It's, and then there's different thoughts and different opinions and different ways and You know, we're trying to dissolve in more or less the, the, the end of the project that we started and because it's with a group of people, it's almost impossible to make any decisions at this point so. You know, then I'm back in this place. I'm like, I don't know which, I don't know which one I would would go with there, they all have, you know, they all have a lot of challenge, um. In them, yeah, so I'm, I'm kind of again, I'm back in this place of feeling a little bit more humble, uh, feeling jaded. And, uh, and like, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I don't know mystery zone, um, of wanting to, to try and be touched and still believe, but also having been burned quite a lot that are like, OK, I'm gonna not be so. You know, I tend to have a really fiery energy and I just jump in and I go for it, and, and I'm just like a big yes, and I'm just like, bring it on and I'll learn along the way and I'll, I'll be burned and I'll be sculpted, and I'll be whatever, but I'm gonna be better for it. Let's do it. I'm ready. That's really my energy and, and um. Yeah, I think with age and just, you know, now also being a solo mom and having it and being an entrepreneur, it's like, OK, I, I wanna just be a little bit more careful of how and where I spend my energy and just being like, really. Yeah, really. Really in a different place of of choosing rather than just like all the things are coming at me and I'm just like, you know, being penetrated by it, yes, just gonna be like, OK, what do I choose to actually um be Be cultivating or being being changed by and being in relationship with. To step into, yeah. No, I, I appreciate your, your sharing there and that's kind of what we're, what we're creating here is the multiple people coming in, but there's a triad of three of us initially that are kind of doing the decision making to not spread the decision making over too much and people that are coming in understand that. So they're kind of giving us their blessing and then as we grow and it's grounded and landed, then we're gonna decentralize the decision making more. But initially, it just feels like if we had to go through all the different people coming in to make decisions, it would be exactly what you're sharing. So hearing you is a is a reaffirmation of what I felt intuitively to really make this land and ground, and I'm kind of the Main holder out of the three of us that's driving it, but also really deeply listening. So, yeah, and I, I, it's, uh, sounds like there's a lot of learning and, and hopefully it hasn't jaded you too much and that your, your heart and, and, and being can still align to that, that place and get out of your apartment in Berlin when it feels right. Yeah. Yeah, you know, and it's a lot to to sit where you're sitting. I just want to say that too. It's also, you know, the more leadership we take and the bigger risks we take, the more we're also projected on or pedestalized against or pushed back against or criticized or scrutinized. It's like, you know, when you make those decisions, which in the moment feel like the best decisions that you can make for this project, and then a few months pass and then, you know, it's so easy for people to look at it and go, oh, you should have never done it that way. You should have done it this way. And And there's just a lot there to hold. There's just a lot that you're, you're opening yourself up to or putting yourself out there, out there with that people who don't take those bigger risks can't ever really understand, so. One of the things that someone beautifully said to me was like, I don't allow in the judgment of anyone who's not taking a big risks as I am, and I love that. It's like, so easy to sit back and judge the people who are doing big things and not do anything big yourself. um, but those people who know what it means to take those risks, those are the people whose opinion really, really matters. Yeah, for sure. And, and I'd love to relay that actually to the role as a facilitator, because, you know, there's judgments and projections on us all the time in different ways. And one of the principles I like to hold is, you know, a, a place that I'm, I'm generally always open to feedback, and I really want feedback and I, and I celebrate feedback and I'm, I'm curious both in your like facilitator training program. How you you handle like the, the feedback loops coming in, and where, like what the what the journey has been to differentiate between those peppercorns of truth, those things where you're like, yeah, yeah, fair on that that's that's fair enough, like I definitely could have done that, and where you're like, Thank you, and that's a load of bullshit. Like, I, I love to hear where, where that line is for you, because it's, you know, there's always projections, there's always judgments, you know, I'm getting that with this community project, every time I pick up a mic, and I'm in front of a group, it's always there. So I'd love to hear how you navigate that personally and professionally in that sense. Yeah. Yeah, well, one of the groups that is the fastest and the quickest and the biggest to criticize is a group of facilitators. So running facilitator trainings is kind of a sadistic move, um, on the part of anyone doing it because you're really opening yourself up to a different level of scrutiny. Than any other group. I'll just say that. And I will say what I've noticed with particularly facilitator trainings is the longer that I hold a group of facilitators and don't challenge them in their own facilitation, the bigger their criticism and judgment grows. So I found that as soon as possible, I'm holding a facilitator training, I need to empower them to step up and be challenged. Because as soon as that happens, the humbleness and the humility comes in of what it actually means to facilitate and hold groups. Um, and the longer I wait to do that, for this kind of, I think, I think people who are group facilitators are mostly experiential learners, like a majority of them are experiential learners. So they also can't take in too much information without also doing something with it. So I've just found now as a reminder for myself as much as I'm sharing it here, as soon as possible, this group of people needs to be challenged. And then some of that. Some of that rests back, and they're like, OK, I can be humble again because I get what you're doing is really hard and challenging. So, as if the the challenge in of itself activates them to recognize the the humility of both you and of their journey stepping into a, a, you know, facilitation program in that way. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and just allows them to move the energy that they need, which is like the real life application of whatever is being taught. They like there's just some uh some inability to keep taking that in without also integrating it through applying it. Mm, and, and in the, the field and what you've created there, where, where do you feel like your new edges are, like in terms of the growth of that program, like what are your edges that you're seeing in the next 3 to 6 months to expand what you what you birth to? Yeah, that's a good question. Um, well, I, I guess like, so right now in 2 weeks, I'm running the 5th module, which is the final module of the 2nd year-long training. And once that training, this training ends now at the end of this year, I'll be in the first moment in like 7 years where I I'm not either running or selling a long form container, and that feels like a huge Overdue gift to myself to sit back and integrate for a minute. Um, so my, and I guess that could be a growth edge in and of itself. The next year-long training will start in October 2025. So I have 10 months of time when I'm going to go back to the curriculum, back to the building blocks, and kind of revision. How I want to run this training moving forward because the last two years have, it's just been like, there was the thing that I imagined this to be, and now it's been completely re-sculpted by the 2 years of groups that I've, that I've taken through this particular journey. Um, and I feel really excited about that, and I think the next level of, of, of growth is somehow in the architecture of the program and revisioning the perfect architecture for this, like the evolution of the training. And part of the challenge with that is it's like when you're when you're teaching the field, there is no step by step, like people keep coming to me and they're like, like, what's the step by like what's the formula? And then there's no for this, like get, get over yourself as soon as you, as soon as you start reaching for a formula, you've lost it completely. So it's part of the challenge is how to have an architecture and a formula. Um, and how to, um, not lose the essence of the emergent quality of what I'm trying to transmit. Mm, yeah, and, and that, that to me feels like such a uh active um analogy for really live vibrant listening uh facilitation, you know, there's some, I, I'm co-facilitating a lot with different people, leading a lot as well, but I, I really enjoy the co-facilitation. I can see. Some that come with the very, hey, we're doing this, and you know, it's 4:15 and this is happening next and, you know, and and there there's a there's a beautiful structure and then others were it's like we're in the void, we're listening to everything and structure isn't even a word that we understand here and Uh, like the, the, the vast level that I've, I've kind of woven inside of that. And I, I like it cause I'm like, all right, what, what hat do I get to put on in this kind of, you know, dyad or triad to, to, to create magic in terms of, um, am I bringing more of the structure or am I bringing more of the flow and finding this, this, this dance between the two of where Like the emergent aliveness can can congruently come to life that supports ultimately the field of participants that have come in. And there isn't, you know, uh, uh, a, a, a formula. Like sometimes I, I can hear like my past partner I was teaching with, she loves a lot of structure, and I'm like, OK, we do that. But then when we're in the group field, I don't know if any of this is gonna be applicable, let's try. Really, totally. And and I think that that principle in of itself is so challenging for a, what do you call it a masculine mind or a structured mind of logic, reason, and understanding, and In the place of wanting to deliver structure, but wanting to have the freedom to flow, like, where do you feel in that um architectural framework for this program, like, where have been the areas where you've created structure and then realized you needed more flow, and where have you realized actually there was too much structure and it inhibited the flow? I, I, I'd love to hear some of the, the dance between these two, because this is always like the juicy bits. Totally, yeah. Um, hmm. Yeah, there is, there is, I've started like part of the evolution of this program and the work is it started to pull out of me some more um some more definitive ways of conceptualizing. How to hold from extreme structure to flow. Cause I find that you could be a field facilitator in any of those areas from from a very structured way to a, I call it like, um, semi-emergent, all the way up to like full emergence. Um, you can still be a facilitator in any of those realms, and it's more like what is the most appropriate formula for this group, and also potentially for the teaching facilitation team or triad. And it's funny because it happens so often that as soon as I get attached to something happening, as soon as I'm like, this is what's happening tomorrow, or this is what module 2 is, it exactly pushes up against that to prove to me that it's not that, and that that wasn't the right thing. And so it happens time and time again, and I'm, I'm really challenged by working with people like your ex-partner or whatever, who are like, OK, this is the plan and this is what we're gonna do. I, I even had a recent collaboration where we did that. We were like, OK, Monday mornings this, Tuesday is this, and we planned the whole thing. And what kept happening over and over again was I was questioning my own. My own impulses because they didn't meet the formula that we had created together. So I find that it it doesn't work at all to have a structure anymore like I'm kind of too. Far gone from structure being supportive. I'm actually much more supported in just showing up, and that doesn't mean that I show up to a room at the moment when something's happening and I don't know what's happening. I know exactly what's happening more or less when we're there, but like, I don't really know what I'm gonna do with a group until the opening circle. Mhm. They will pop in and they'll be like structures and forms, and I'll have some kind of loose sketches, but the opening circle is really where the group starts to land for me and where where things get pulled through me, um. And so it's some mix of that, like I'm, I'm, I'm typically supported by having a a toolbox or a kit of resources and ideas that are there to be grabbed from in any moment and applied, um, and that's kind of my now where I find I'm really like, that's how I like to work as well with people is like, I call it like, OK, what are we gonna throw up on the board of like the, you know, the board of sticky notes, and then in each moment, what are we gonna pull off and use because now is the right moment for that. That's my like sweet spot of facilitation. Hm, I love that. It's uh especially the analogy I use quite often both in the role as a practitioner and giving sessions as well as facilitation. It's like I'm a, you know, and being a, a former ship's captain and, you know, building a lot of, um, you know, gardens and homes and things like that. Like I've been very used to walking around with my tool belt on, so it's natural. Wow, this is this, I need to take this out to build and create. You know, and I was even laughing here cause, you know, now that I'm on this, on this land, like I, like the other day I was fixing, you know, the things in the sink, and, you know, I, I love like being the kind of fixer upper, and then I'm going and being in front of a computer and like putting on a different tool belt and working with clients. So it's like every situation is a different hat, a different tool, a different Um, framework for how I'm meeting the present moment of reality. So I, I hear in what you're sharing that it's not really known. It's having the confidence and clarity to know that you have a, a belt full of tools that can come out whatever it is necessary to deliver the greatest, you know, support for the the the crowd at hand, the the the group at hand. It's it's beautiful. Yeah. And there's something, and that's like a quality of emergence in and of itself, that in any moment, I don't know in any next moment, I'm not fully sure what's gonna happen, but I can pull a pull a tool out, which is like more of a, a structured practice or a way of being, um. That are accessible to me in any moment. Um, and then, like, for me, the real sweet spot of field facilitation when I'm, especially when I'm collaborating, is that new practices come through. And that's like what I love. I love creating new practices that are made just For exactly this moment and exactly this group, or exactly this transmission that we want to learn, like those new practices is when I know we're we're in it, like we're listening, we're being we're being molded and sculpted by this group body. Mhm, mhm. Yeah, I, I, I appreciate that a lot cause I sometimes, especially in collaborations, something will arise or come through, and then, you know, I'll I'll I'll wanna like write it down or think about it for the next time I'm going to facilitate that, but then when I actually go back I'm like, what am I actually do in that moment? I know it was great, but what was it really? Yeah, totally. It's one of my biggest. It's one of my biggest um suggestions to people now who just start out facilitating is like, get a journal and write down all the practices that you do, cause if I, I, I was doing that at the beginning, but then I lost my journal and I didn't commit to it again. But if I would do that, I would have an insane library right now of incredible practices to always refer back to. Um, and now, I don't know, kind of past this moment now where everything is just, it's kind of like, like Burning Man in that way, like we build it just to burn it down. Mm mm. Yeah. Like. And, and do you feel for new people coming into this that in order to get into that emergent place of being with the present moment of what is that structure is necessary for them to have that confidence, or do you think that someone can just naturally go there? No. I cannot do that, no. I have, I have witnessed time again that um it's not, it's not, it's not very, not very good. But what, um, I, I, which is just to say, I think new people starting out should expect to have a structure and to have a script, and to have a a a play by play that they follow for some amount of time. The analogy that I like to give, it's like being a musician. So musician wouldn't just pick up a guitar and start playing music. You learn a song. And then you learn another song, and then you learn another song, and then somewhere along the way you can play the song without the the keys, or the the the the the notes. And then at a certain point you can jam, but it takes a while to just jam and you have to learn music first. And it's the same with facilitation. You have to take the time, you have to learn a song, you have to play the song over and over again. And there's so much new information to take in, in the attunement and receptivity of those songs that you play to particular groups at particular times, how they land, how they're received, when that might be the most appropriate thing to guide or lead again, and like there's infinite amounts of amounts of information just to take in with that. So I really discourage new facilitators from trying to just be fully emergent from the beginning. I'm like, hey, get a thing, do the thing over and over again. The cool thing I think is about this. When a facilitator picks a something to master, you know, for me it was belly to belly. For a friend of mine, I work with a lot, Christian Pankhurst, it was hard IQ Circle. When you pick some form to master, once you master that one form, You, you enter into a new State of facilitation where it's much easier to be emergent or to be in the mystery with any practice. But you have to master one first. So I also like to encourage people to master one thing because once you've mastered that one thing, there's a there's a transmission or there's there's something that lands that you can then flow much easier with any other practice. Whereas if you try to be a jack of all trades and know how to do everything a little bit, you'll always be a little bit behind that kind of master level facilitation technique. Mhm, mhm. Yeah, I, I, uh. Can relate and appreciate that in many ways. And I'd love to hear cause I know we mentioned before, but how for you, you know, now that you're single and you're kind of facilitating singles events and and and offerings and things. How do you navigate that with being a single woman and, and, you know, facilitating events like that when there's errors or or or attraction towards, you know, a single participant who who's there, like, what is your protocol or what is your level of of of dancing in that way? How do you Like, do you address it? Do you stay shy? Do you say direct? What is, what is, what is your? I see you flushing a little bit already at the question, which is great. Well, yeah, well, because, OK, so like, In the last 10 years, I've had two significant partners. One was the partner who I facilitated alongside and created a whole empire with. And the second was a partner who I met, and, uh, my second partner, uh, was a participant in a workshop and kind of journeyed and traveled and became an assistant, and so I have two very experiences very connected to my work as a facilitator. One of like being in partnership with my Uh, co-business owner and facilitator, and the other of of being in a relationship with someone who I met in a workshop. And so, I have a lot of suspicions around Like I don't. I'm not fully, like, just to say this, I'm not fully like, I would do either of those things again. I'm actually like, I don't know if I would do either of those things again. Um, I would be, I would want to go really slow, and it would take a long time, and I'm not just like ready to jump into either of those dynamics again. I'm more like, I want to be someone who's not at all, someone who'd be in my workshop or who I'd be leading workshops with. That's more where I'm at now. And that's just my personal come from because of the very strong experiences that I've had. So, um, in that way, it makes it a lot easier to facilitate spaces and be really clear in my boundaries. That isn't to say that it doesn't happen that I get attracted or that things turn on for me. Um, but I was saying this in our conversation too, it's very different. Um, being a female facilitator and the attraction and things that come versus being a male facilitator. For some reason, a woman in her power or a woman who's teaching sex and relationship, I don't think is as attractive to a man because there's because of that power differential, which is like that I would be the teacher or the leader relationally with this. Man, does that make sense? Like, and somehow the man wants to be like the one who knows, and the one who can hold, and the one who's guiding, and I'm holding a little bit more of that like masculine role in that somehow. So it's not, it's not, I don't find that I'm like, like, Uh, what do you have to say, like, hitting, um. Uh, what's this phrase I'm trying to say? It's not like that there's so many men throwing themselves at me in as a group facilitator, or that they're intimidated, or that they're like, oh, like there's more some some dynamic like this. Yeah, there's a, there's a bit more of a almost an intimidation factor, so they're like, I'll just keep my distance because it feels too overwhelming. Totally, totally, yeah, and I, yeah, and um. Yeah, I would say that. So it's, it's not something I'm confronting so much, but it definitely does happen, and, and, and there's an edge, you know, I'm I'm, I'm in this conversation right now with a friend, with some of my friends who are also facilitators, because it's like, What is that edge of naming what's true? And then like, let's say there's a participant in my space and I have that attraction, and I name that to them because it's what's true, and it will create a level of transparency and connection and authenticity. But then as soon as I open that personal portal up, and that person feels me, the person who's whatever leading the workshop or the empowered or powerful woman or entrepreneur is attracted to them, then it opens up a It opens up a new portal, and there's a lot of risk there. There's a lot of risk there. So I tend to tread really, really lightly and keep more things to myself, and I'm really suspicious of the The amplified field and the attractions that are that open in amplified fields. I'm suspicious. That's that's just. Yeah, thank you for naming that. I mean, I feel that, you know, not only from the depth to which someone can have transformational experiences amplified by that field, but the depth of their erotic charge is like. That much more turned on, and yeah, I think this is a really key component to bring into, especially a young facilitator's brain, people that are learning and growing, it's like how to be present to like this field that you're in, and it's a non-ordinary reality that you're navigating in, and you're Yeah, opening it, there's a place to name these attractions, but I like I find for myself, if there, if I find that there's an attraction there 99% of the time, I'm just gonna be very solitary in my own space, just because to name it, it like. It puts in a dynamic that, that, that almost, you know, plays with the power, I think a little bit too much in a way, maybe through time and space and things evolve, you know, things can change, but I, I really feel that to to keep the, the sanity of that experience and you know, I thank you for naming the difference between The the male body to female body, cause that is a very strong flavor of differentiation in this field for sure, yeah, yeah. You know, we're in a a a new moment of time, and um and we're trying, like, there's no formula, that's again, another truth here, there's no formula for the exact way to do it. It's very relative to each group, to each person. Um, but a friend of mine came up with like a 3 step process or frame, which I really like, which I'm, which I'm kind of adopting, but also in like, it's still a work in progress, which is one, to not enter into anything relational with anyone who comes into a space for at least 6 months, to not even like name it or speak into it for 6 months is one. You to have, um, support, which is like other facilitators who I share about this experience with who give me reflections back on it. And 3 is the question, and this one I think is the most brilliant of all of, of all, which is what this person came to the workshop or the training for, for in themselves. Like the thing that they came in their own growth or transformation of, has that thing been completed. Have they completed the journey that they've been on with their own self-development or professional development, because if not, whatever that thing that they're working on. Is going to continue to be worked through our relationship. Mm. Sure that that person has gone through a full cycle with that developmental piece that they're with before entering into a relationship. And that's another really like, oh, it's so good, it's so good, uh, because the relationship is going to be what calls through that piece if it's not completed on its own. Mhm. Yeah. No, I love that, and, and I, you know, I feel in that there's all there's this place of like is the dynamic between you and the other going to be advantageous or disadvantage, you know, towards. To come there for this, um, and are they going to be, you know, uh, pushed down by the romance getting in the way of that thing. So, no, it's beautiful. Thank you for, for bringing that in. Yeah. Hm, such a joy to, to flow and to, to feel you and to, yeah, to, to hear your, your both personal and professional, um. Weaving of life. I, I have a lot of respect and appreciation and really I, I felt from these, these two conversations just your, yeah, your capacity to just put it all on, on the, in front of you on the surface and not to hide anything away, and that's something I really respect and appreciate about someone, you know, both personally and professionally. I think it's it's also what it takes to to do this work well because it, this is very much impacting our personal life as well as our profession life and to To hide away any of these parts would be a disservice to both our, you know, our self and, you know, the beings around you. So thank you and, and honoring the the journey you've been on to be where you are. Yeah, it's it's beautiful. Yeah, thank you so much for asking. And yeah, also just delighted to feel really met, uh, by someone like yourself who, uh, yeah, we, we have a very resonant view on, on these spaces and what's possible and way of doing it. Um, yeah, so just really appreciating you too and, and, uh, For the journey that we've, we've been on in these, in these calls, but also in the personal realms and the times and spaces between, and really looking forward to coming and visiting your community and putting my feelers into the potential and possibility of that. Yeah, for sure, for sure, and, you know, maybe as life goes on, we, uh, we, we to create some magic in a space as well sometime too. We'll see if uh something wants to be manifested training that that that could just be to uh to to to Americans making some impact in the world. I like it. Yeah. Two Americans living abroad, that's a, it's a very particular kind of American who I found that I'm, yeah, really called towards is the ones who leave America. I mean, I like, I love the people who stay in America too, but there's, there's a particular like, you know, and I know what it's like to leave America and live abroad, you know. For sure, for sure. I, I, I feel that and see that in your, in your residence, so. Um, and those people that want to find out more about you, or, or find out your offerings, where's the best place for them to find you? Yeah, um, Rachel Rickards.com and uh and the field, if you're interested in the facilitator trainings, uh, the dashfield.com are the two places. And then, yeah, Facebook. Facebook is my, my best place where I share easily in the most, and I'm trying to get better at sharing on Instagram, but It's a work in progress. It's still learning like old school somehow in that way. It comes with time. I'm, I'm getting better day by day with all these things. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time. Thank you for the love you bring into the world, for being a conscious mother, for, you know, really paving the way of, of new paradigms of intimacy of connection, and, and really being the, the change you wish to be in the world. So much love and appreciation. Thank you everyone for tuning in. Please subscribe if you're watching this on YouTube or check out more episodes of Love, Sex and Leadership, having a lot of amazing conscious conversations with leaders and change makers just as Rachel is in the world. Until next time, thank you all and see you again.